Sandia results comparing Li-Ion and Lead-Carbon batteries:

Link (http://seekingalpha.com/article/115257-lead-carbon-a-game-changer-for-alternative-energy-storage)

While the author is clearly a motivated proponent of Lead-Carbon, I presume Sandia National Laboratories to be fair and accurate.

If I am not mistaken, Firefly uses a carbon foam matrix infused with lead to improve the life / performance of their lead-acid batteries:

Link (http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=204&Itemid=89)

Yawn

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Who needs Google when we have you around ;) Good find

Mohsen,

The importance of this result is that the US has plenty of lead, and a proven system for recyling it at a rate of 98%. Firefly is a DOMESTIC battery manufacturer, whereas all Li-Ion manufacturers are in Asia.

Let me know if that still isn't clear.

Good article. I agree that if what Sandia has tested so far turns out to be a fact with further testing, PbC batteries have a bright future for certain applications. However, I'm not so sure that EVs are one of them. PbC batteries still contain a high percentage of lead, and therefore quite heavy. In vehicles, weight matters and so I see Li-Ion to still be the battery of choice for EVs in the near future.

PbC batteries still contain a high percentage of lead, and therefore quite heavy. In vehicles, weight matters and so I see Li-Ion to still be the battery of choice for EVs in the near future.

It may simply be a cost issue for battery selection, as the Li-Ion packs weigh only 400 lbs, so increasing to 500 or 600 lbs, given the regenerative braking systems, might not be such a big deal. These batteries may be considerably cheaper.

The importance of this result is that the US has plenty of lead ...

I remember in the 80s there was this chip manufacturer who was trying to get money from the Saudi Arabian sheikhs to set up IC production in Saudi Arabia because "they have a lot of sand" over there.

Lithium is the 30th most abundant substance on earth, and relatively easy to mine from brine.

It may simply be a cost issue for battery selection, as the Li-Ion packs weigh only 400 lbs, so increasing to 500 or 600 lbs, given the regenerative braking systems, might not be such a big deal. These batteries may be considerably cheaper.

See the article on PbC at GreenCarCongress:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/11/developer-of-pb.html
It has a rather interesting graph comparing PbC to other battery types. For the thing you are talking about, Wh/kg, the PbC is actually a bit worse than lead-acid, whereas Lion is about 2.5 times better. So if Lion is 400 lbs then lead-acid and PbC would be 1000 lbs.

Definitely sounds like PbC will be better for stationary storage. Basically, we could end up with a bank of PbC batteries in our garage charged by solar panels on our roofs. Then we plug our EVs into that system and get charged up overnight. Rinse and repeat.

See the article on PbC at GreenCarCongress:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/11/developer-of-pb.html
It has a rather interesting graph comparing PbC to other battery types. For the thing you are talking about, Wh/kg, the PbC is actually a bit worse than lead-acid, whereas Lion is about 2.5 times better. So if Lion is 400 lbs then lead-acid and PbC would be 1000 lbs.

You are correct, it is the increase in life cycles, not energy stored, my bad (lazy, lazy - although, more lead acid batteries to keep state of charge in sweet spot would give the more / heavier batteries much longer life cycles, which is to say the same thing).

I don't think it would scale that way, as the pack isn't all batteries, but point taken.