: Where will the electric energy come from



Curious
09-09-2008, 04:39 PM
What if lots of people start plugging their cars to the wall? Where will all that electricity come from?

As 4 or 8 kwh per day (or night) is quite significant i think the only short term solution would be to raise electricity price.

GearheadGeek
09-09-2008, 07:30 PM
What if lots of people start plugging their cars to the wall? Where will all that electricity come from?

As 4 or 8 kwh per day (or night) is quite significant i think the only short term solution would be to raise electricity price.

In many markets, too many of them charging IN THE DAYTIME might be an issue. I don't think there's an electricy market in the country that couldn't take on all the Volts their customers might possibly buy if they're charged off-peak.

Power companies love selling more power off-peak, because they have to build their generation capacity to cover the peaks. There'll be more power companies offering peak/off-peak rates if this becomes a big market.

DaveP
09-09-2008, 07:34 PM
Just not in the daytime. Here's the California Independent System Operator profile of available power vs. demand:
http://www.caiso.com/outlook/outlook.html

As you can see by the graph, at 3 in the morning, CA has roughly 15 gigawatts of excess power production capability.
That even accounts for the 5 gigawatts they turn off from the daytime peak, as well.

If you figure 15 gigawatts of excess capacity is available for 12 hours, that's 180gigawatthours, or enough to recharge 22.5 million volts at 8kwh apiece.

It's only a problem of coordination so that all the cars don't charge at once. Although I use the term "only" loosely. Still even if they all charged at midnight it's still millions of cars and that's just in CA, alone.

BluesBrian
09-09-2008, 09:59 PM
What if lots of people start plugging their cars to the wall? Where will all that electricity come from?

As 4 or 8 kwh per day (or night) is quite significant i think the only short term solution would be to raise electricity price.
That's good enough reason to install solar panels or setup a wind turbine.

LyleL
09-09-2008, 10:35 PM
Utilities say grid can handle rechargeable cars


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080723.whElectricCarPlasma0723/BNStory/specialGlobeAuto/

zeksteve
09-21-2008, 03:16 PM
They cannot handle everyone charging at day but at night we use a fraction of the energy we do during the day.

AuntBones
09-23-2008, 12:14 PM
In the future as more cars become available will we have "Zap Stations"? One quick charges.People living in appartments and traveling will need this anyway?

frankyB
09-23-2008, 01:30 PM
It is about the same load as an AC or a Freezer. And in my case, I live where electricity is cheap and green.... Hydro power is king :)

JoeReal
09-23-2008, 02:41 PM
Only if you have a nice roof, why not?

Already I am drafting plans to install 230 Volt 60 Ampere on my garage, for EV recharging, currently costing $930 installation from an electrician friend, with permits included.

I am waiting for solar panels to come down in prices so that I wouldn't bother with the rebates, I'll just install the panels myself. One BAD THING about the Solar Installers is that they are the major road block to solar PV adoption because they charge more than the cost of the panels. Another year or two, I'll be able to do that, when prices do come down. Right now, the cheapest that I can get for a DIY gird-tied system is $30K for a 6.12 peak KW capacity. Just a little lower more like $24K, and I can forget about the rebates!

And with solar PV, I won't be guilty to recharge during the day! And I live the extra capacity to those folks who don't have solar to recharge at night, I won't compete with you.

zeksteve
09-24-2008, 12:37 AM
Only if you have a nice roof, why not?

Already I am drafting plans to install 230 Volt 60 Ampere on my garage, for EV recharging, currently costing $930 installation from an electrician friend, with permits included.

I am waiting for solar panels to come down in prices so that I wouldn't bother with the rebates, I'll just install the panels myself. One BAD THING about the Solar Installers is that they are the major road block to solar PV adoption because they charge more than the cost of the panels. Another year or two, I'll be able to do that, when prices do come down. Right now, the cheapest that I can get for a DIY gird-tied system is $30K for a 6.12 peak KW capacity. Just a little lower more like $24K, and I can forget about the rebates!

And with solar PV, I won't be guilty to recharge during the day! And I live the extra capacity to those folks who don't have solar to recharge at night, I won't compete with you.


About 3 years the price will be half with the new technology. Right now cells are about as hard to make as a LCD tv or a CPU one mistake on a massive area and the cell is useless.

Soon they will be able to offset print the cells

You can do the basic installation of the cells yourself. Just need a electrician to hook up the Cell to grid system

Texas
09-24-2008, 01:22 AM
About 3 years the price will be half with the new technology. Right now cells are about as hard to make as a LCD tv or a CPU one mistake on a massive area and the cell is useless.

Soon they will be able to offset print the cells

You can do the basic installation of the cells yourself. Just need a electrician to hook up the Cell to grid system




They are doing it TODAY in production volumes. Just check out Nanosolar. They have been in production since last December. They already have a 1GW/year production line running. However, zeksteve is right that the price is going to come down drastically in a few years. We just have to wait for supply to match demand. Right now the demand is so great that the prices are artificially high (do not reflect the true cost of manufacturing the cells). The good thing about that is solar manufactures have extra money to invest in R&D and new production facilities. I say if you can afford it, buy now and help support the industry. The more cells that are produced the cheaper they will get. We can go slowly or we can go quickly. Be bullish on solar!

cburk
09-24-2008, 10:37 AM
Maybe GM should throw in 40 CFL light bulbs with every purchase. This would go a long way to reducing the power consumption of every Volt owner.

For that matter why doesn't the US Government send every American 20 CFL light bulbs. Oh that's right, it makes too much sense, LOL:D

WopOnTour
09-25-2008, 12:56 AM
I can see it now
Treadmills and work-out bikes jacked into your Chevy Volt!
;)
WOT

wtiger
09-28-2008, 02:33 AM
I'd like to see you pedal out 8KW/h worth of charge. I put my bet on you having the car charged up in a month with especially vigilante and vigorous pedaling . :)

Altazi
09-28-2008, 04:40 AM
Maybe GM should throw in 40 CFL light bulbs with every purchase. This would go a long way to reducing the power consumption of every Volt owner.

For that matter why doesn't the US Government send every American 20 CFL light bulbs. Oh that's right, it makes too much sense, LOL:D

Maybe because CFL bulbs suck big time. They contain mercury; if you drop one, you have to evacuate your home and call the EPA. :eek: (Well, not really, but the bulbs do contain mercury, and present a real hazard if the bulbs break.) Plus, they are slow to turn on, and God help you if the bulb is in a cold location - it will barely glow. Sorry, for me the CFLs are not much of a solution.

Give me LED-based lighting any day. That would be a great giveaway, since the LED bulbs are quite expensive at the moment.

OPEC SUCKS
09-28-2008, 02:41 PM
Used to be in thermometers. Oral and the other kind, the ones used on babies. I don't need to remind you where that mercury went....... :p

cburk
09-29-2008, 10:58 AM
You obviously haven't tried a CFL lightbult recently if you think they are slow to turn on. I just bought some GE bulbs from Lowes over the weekend and they are up to full brightness within approx 10 seconds after turning them on. Besides the bathroom vanity where do you need instantaneous full brightness. I'll live with 10 second warmup time to save a ton of $ on my electric bills anyday.

I agree that LED would be great but so would a 100% EV with 500 mile range, lol:D

Altazi
09-29-2008, 12:17 PM
You obviously haven't tried a CFL lightbult recently if you think they are slow to turn on. I just bought some GE bulbs from Lowes over the weekend and they are up to full brightness within approx 10 seconds after turning them on. Besides the bathroom vanity where do you need instantaneous full brightness. I'll live with 10 second warmup time to save a ton of $ on my electric bills anyday.

I agree that LED would be great but so would a 100% EV with 500 mile range, lol:D

You obviously haven't met my wife. She hates the CFLs, where I merely dislike them. Many places need instant light if they are dark and you want to enter. Good example: descending the stairs into the garage in the evening. We don't tend to leave lights on, but I suppose we could - which kind of offsets the whole idea . . .

GearheadGeek
09-29-2008, 03:52 PM
I'm not a fan of CFLs, but I do find them useful for certain applications. My porch light is a CFL (we have a relatively mild climate, but I do notice it takes a while to reach full brightness in the winter) In all fairness to CFLs, except in extreme cold they produce a useful amount of light instantly and then take a few seconds to reach full brightness. For things like lighting the stairs down to the garage, basement, etc. they should suffice.

They have poor color rendering and only a few expensive versions are dimmable, so I don't find them to be generally usable in the house. I don't tend to over-light the house anyway, though, so electrical power for lighting isn't a primary concern. I probably pay a measurable amount due to the heat load from incandescents in the summer but between cheaper winter electrical rates and the occasional spike in the price of natural gas, I may get most of that back in the winter when I require most of my lighting anyway.

kubel
10-02-2008, 06:01 AM
What if lots of people start plugging their cars to the wall? Where will all that electricity come from?

As 4 or 8 kwh per day (or night) is quite significant i think the only short term solution would be to raise electricity price.

The US will probably sell 100 times more refrigerators or air conditioners than they will plug-in's over the next several years. I would be more concerned with those since they run, sometimes constantly, during peak hours.

Plug-ins will typically be plugged in at night, when the electrical utilities have excess capacity (and are willing to sell it at lower rates, actually, with time-of-day billing).