The website www. newghas.com is totally irresponsible to the American people. Why would you want to donate 50k for a solar system to make clean hydrogen and then pay 2 bucks a gallon for the Hydrogen at the station. Its called control and greed. People liberate yourselves from big oil and any others like this company. You could solar your own house far cheaper and have free energy to run your house and your electric car without having to be in debt to someone else the rest of your life just to drive your car The company above also promotes hydrogen as a fuel, it isn't a fuel but a energy carrier. All the new hydrogen cars on the streets now are nothing but a fancy electric car that runs off a hydrogen powered refillable battery that they like to call a fuel cell because it converts the hydrogen to electricity to run the electric motor that drives the car. T Pickens needs to remove this scam link off his website. Everyone knows its cheaper to put the electricity directly in a battery to drive your electric car than to use electricity to make hydrogen and then use the hydrogen to make electricity to power your electric car. Just another example of waste and greed.

Preach it Bro!

Hydrogen will be nothing but a ball and chain for the consumer. We need advanced ultracap/battery electric cars now. Ask for them at you local dealership! Call up your Representative or Senator, local or National and tell them you want freedom from oil. While your Rep or Sen is on the line, also mention you want incentives for the home owner to install photovoltaics on their roofs to help power these new cars.

What a package deal!!

The internet is a great thing when used for good. But when someone puts lies about about someone or their company the only thing you can do is try to set the record straight. See comments below that were posted to this same comment on the Pickens plan. Whoever this liar is just copied and posted their same comment here on this site. Please visit http://newghas.com. We have a viable option for long term independence from oil. GM is making the Equinox SUV FCV and Honda has the Clarity FCX that according to both of their company execs say are mass production ready when fueling stations are in place. Our plan will accomplish building the infrastructure with renewable energy produced hydrogen. We can sell it for $1.95 per gallon eqv. Check out the program for yourself and if you have any questions feel free to email me at info@newghas.com.



You obviously didn't read the site. The only package that does not have discount that at least doubles the package amount in return to the participant is a $3.99 for a bumper sticker. You are going to need a long extension cord for your electric car to go over 200 miles on a trip without stopping for 3 to 4 hours to charge it up. The car being used as an example is the Honda FCX and has a 68 mpg eqv. Oil has nothing to do with my site. It is hydrogen used as a fuel in a fuel cell vehicle made from renewable energy. You sir are spreading propaganda about something and someone you know nothing about. You can't put solar on your home for less than the price of a tank of gas. The only solution is if we do something together to solve the issue and quit waiting for someone else to fix it for us. I am a person trying to make a change that will benefit everyone. Also check the GM Equinox SUV FCV along with the Honda FCX that are production ready FCV's and only need fueling stations to be mass produced.

You obviously didn't read the site. The only package that does not have discount that at least doubles the package amount in return to the participant is a $3.99 for a bumper sticker. You are going to need a long extension cord for your electric car to go over 200 miles on a trip without stopping for 3 to 4 hours to charge it up. The car being used as an example is the Honda FCX and has a 68 mpg eqv. Oil has nothing to do with my site. It is hydrogen used as a fuel in a fuel cell vehicle made from renewable energy. You sir are spreading propaganda about something and someone you know nothing about. You can't put solar on your home for less than the price of a tank of gas. The only solution is if we do something together to solve the issue and quit waiting for someone else to fix it for us. I am a person trying to make a change that will benefit everyone. Also check the GM Equinox SUV FCV along with the Honda FCX that are production ready FCV's and only need fueling stations to be mass produced.

As far I can see, Newghas is a scam.

The problem of Hydrogen cars is that the fuel cells are still way to expensive. About 1000 dollar a kW. This means that a 50 kW car, will cost at least 50000 dollar.

Hydrogen from natural gas is still way cheaper than from renewables.

Current price of natural gas is about 6 dollar cent per kWh. Conversion to hydrogen can with about 90% efficiency. So, hydrogen from natural gas is about, well, let say 8 cent per kWh???

Solarpanels give energy for about 20 cent per kWh (not taking into account nanosolar).

70% efficiency, gives 34 cent per kWh.

Infrastructure is not the problem. That is just a lie. If you can make the fuel cells cheap, hydrogen is not a totally bad idea. But, cheap cells are not there yet.

You can start in island areas, like Hawaii. Just as Project Better Place. Infrastructure is not the problem.

Lucas

T Pickens needs to remove this scam link off his website.

Where do you see the link???

Lucas,
Before you bash someone or a plan you really should read the information in the plan. If you took a few minutes and went to our website you would see we are not going to use natural gas to produce our product. We are using renewable energy (wind and solar) to eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels. It may be more "efficient" according to companies that have an oil/gas interest to produce with natural gas. But how can it be efficient to use one fuel to produce another? I will add comments from many posts on the Pickens Plan that sums up what we are doing and why for you. But the one comment not addressed in the post is your claim infrastructure is not the problem is totaling incorrect. Simply Google search Larry Burns VP of GM comments and also any exec from Honda and they will all tell you the only thing keeping them from being able to mass produce their FCVs is lack of fueling locations. As far as your comment on cost of fuel cells you can also Google that and see that execs from both GM and Honda say when mass production is achieved they can provide fuel cell vehicles for an eqv. price to current cars. So before you call someone a liar do your homework. You have no idea what you are talking about and it proves my point that the internet can be used for good or bad. Spreading misinformation about the viability of a relief from economic crippling fuel prices and producing a fuel from renewable energy that can help get us out of this mess is good for our country, economy, and the environment. If you are against things improving for everyone keep spreading lies and misinformation. If not then start looking to provide a solution of your own.

This post pretty much sums up my plan and motive.

Our program is based on compressed hydrogen gas. According to the review on my website by an independent auto review source the Honda FCX is getting 68 mpg eqv. to gasoline. My reply to you is the same as it is to every other person that says hydrogen is not "efficient". These are the first generation production vehicles (the Honda FCX Clarity and the GM Equinox SUV FCV) and we will see even better improvement as the tech progesses. Our goal is to rid our country of dependence on foreign oil and reduce domestic consumption. Are fuel cell vehicles at their peak of performance yet? No, but they will improve just as production and compression units will improve. Remember our goal. Use ALL alternatives we can to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil. I am all for el vehicles, hybrid vehicles and any other type of transportation that will get us off foreign oil. My program is a grassroots effort to build a network of fueling stations. With a simple 10% participation of the driving age public of our $59.95 (less than a tank of gas for most) we can build the first 900 locations and cover most of the middle of the country and the southwest to tie to the existing locations in California. Our program is unlike any other you will see because we will actually provide the participants discounts back that will in most cases double the amount or more of their package in return. It allows us to not have investors to satisfy with immediate profits and let the production of the first wave of vehicles catch up to our locations. At that point we can build locations everywhere and other options like the Honda Home fueling station will be able to lessen the demand for the current setup of a station on every corner. Simple, basic SOLUTION. If people would spend their time looking for solutions to the problem instead of bashing other peoples plans that are legitimate and us having to spend time make the same points over and over we could all get more accomplished. Someone with your apparent background in the production area of hydrogen could be working on a solution to improving production capabilities and being a part of the solution.
If you took the time to read my plan or my website you would see we are using solar and wind power on site to produce the product. I know it is not the most profitable use of the power and I have already stated on other posts and yes I could make more money by putting the power in the grid. But I am looking for a solution to end our fopreign oil dependence. My common sense approach is use current existing technology (hydrogen production, compression, and storage units) combined with renewable (solar and wind power) to generate hydrogen for Fuel Cell Vehicles that are ready for mass production and only need fueling stations to be available to the general public according to execs from both Honda and GM. All of the propaganda that lack of efficiency in production of hydrogen, better use of power to the grid, better to use el vehicles that only go 200 miles on a charge, and other things I keep answering over and over just amaze me. How much better can it be for our country and the enivironment to produce hydrogen fuel from solar and wind power for cars that are ready to be made that the first generation is getting 280 miles on a fuel up that we can provide for about $25 pretax? Sorry for the length and info in the post but I know the next questions and comments coming and I am trying to be as "efficient " with my time as I can.

Newghas,

I have read many articles. From the Department of Energy, the European Union and your website.

If you can make cheap fuel cells, there is certainly a business case for hydrogen. Even, when you produce it from wind energy.

Cheap fuel cells do not exist yet and the cars are not ready for mass production. Current price is about 1000 dollar for 1 kW. That means 50000 at least for a car.

But there is hope, just today an Australian University reported this:

http://www.monash.edu.au/news/newsline/story/1310

But this not yet mass production.

Lucas

Both the GM and Honda Execs say when mass production is reached on the FCVs they will be at an = price with current production models. Just Google Larry Burns VP of GM and read all of his comments. See post below off my Pickens Plan site from Dr. Warren Reynolds. He is working on a Delivery Truck size FCV. He has more inside knowledge than most about advances in the industry on the vehicle side.

Reply by Warren Reynolds 23 hours ago
Mr. Jackson:
Right on ! The electric car "shills" just don't get it. The electricity for their auto comes from the grid which means more carbon dioxide produced by the fossil fuel plants.
On the other hand, the electricity for the hydrogen comes from solar wind or PV. It takes 50 Kwhr to generate 1 kg of hydrogen that can go 22 miles in a fuel cell car. An older car gets around 20 miles to 1 gallon gasoline (wt. 6.8 lbs vs. hydrogen 2.2 lbs). Hence, with the new high pressure electrolyzers (to 10,000 psi) and the new lightweight carbon fiber tanks, it will be a lighter vehicle. There will be shortly on the market a new electrolyzer without platinum, i.e. nano-alloy that has 90% efficiency.(developed in England) This same alloy will be used in the fuel cell for about 1/50th cost of platinum. Also, the new combined polymer membranes "revving up" for production in Europe will cost less.

John: Will your filing stations have packaged "drop in place" solar-hydrogen generation units ?
Dr. Warren Reynolds

I hope it is all true. A cheap electrolyzer of 90% efficiency would be great for storing energy.

However, as far I know, ITM power starts producing cheap electrolyzers of 50% efficiency.

No costs are given for fuel cells. In general, that means, it is still too expensive.

Infrastructure is NOT THE PROBLEM. If you have a good concept, it will find its way. Start on islands like Project Better Place. Hawaii?? Proof the technology with city busses (current projects are VERY expensive).

Lucas

With the MIT discovery (see the thread on the end of the energy crisis) and other discoveries related to fuel cells and hydrogen, I could see homes producing enough hydrogen to supply all of their electrical needs, and solar/fuel cell/hydrogen/electric vehicles being out-of-pocket priced at about the same level as gasoline cars... if everything comes together into a product for the market.

GM Volt could very well be that vehicle, or other GM products, if the company embraces partnerships and R&D with these new discoverers/discoveries.

The world could sure look like a different place 50 years from now.

If you simply Google search the phrase "lack of hydrogen fueling stations" or "lack of hydrogen infrastructure" you will see your comments are incorrect. The infrastructure IS THE PROBLEM. Mass production of the vehicles can't happen until the fueling network is in place which will bring down the cost of the fuel cells. You will see comments from nearly everyone involved in FCVs saying the main issue is lack of fueling locations (infrastructure).

If you Google on "9/11 conspiracies" you will also find many hits.

I just do the math, I know from reliable sources like the DoE and the EU FP7 program, that fuel cells are still expensive.

I am not sceptical (like others) about hydrogen, if the fuel cells become cheap. But the economics isn't there yet.

If they are there, the infra-structure will not be a problem. You see that with Project Better Place. Saying that the infra-structure is the problem, is just a lie.

It is very normal to start a new technology in a niche sector. So, find the places where hydrogen can be used the best for starting.

Lucas

You are correct. You can find a lot of info from crackpots when you google something. But you can also find alot of good information also. Just as I mentioned in my first response to this thread. If you Google the info I suggested though you will see comments from people like Larry Burns VP of GM Advanced Design Group that state the major challenge IS INFRASTRUCURE/FUELING LOCATIONS. You are confusing what I am saying in response to your posts. Yes fuel cells are expensive now but when mass produced as with any product they will come down to = prices with current vehicles. That is what all of the execs from any company dealing with fuel cells say in their statements. Here is one link from an interview with Larry Burns.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/04/01/larry-burns-says-h2-cars-are-ready-calls-on-government-and-ener/

Better yet here are the comments:
During a keynote speech at the National Hydrogen Association conference in Sacramento, CA, GM's VP for Research and Development declared automotive fuel cell technology ready. However he said it can't move forward without a supply of hydrogen to feed mass quantities of cars. Between General Motors, Daimler, Toyota, Honda and Ford, automakers have demonstrated that the technology works and is reliable. GM and Honda in particular are working aggressively to create fuel cell designs that can be mass produced at an affordable cost. The latest designs have improved efficiency, durability and greatly reduced requirements for catalyst materials.

At the conference, Burns is stepping up the call for the energy industry and government to start implementing a fuel distribution system. Previous analysis done by General Motors has concluded that supplying upwards of ninety-five percent of the population would only require 12,000 hydrogen stations nationwide. That compares to 170,000 gas stations currently in operation. That number of stations placed at roughly two mile intervals in all the populated areas and twenty-five miles apart on major highways would be sufficient to supply the nation with hydrogen for transportation. The estimated cost of that would $10-15 billion or about 1/3 of ExxonMobil's profits for one recent quarter. Without this investment, the U.S. will get left behind.

Our plan will work at building the first 900 to 1100 locations with just a 10% participation rate of the driving age public of our $59.95 package. The best part for participants is they will receive discounts back that in most cases will at least double their package price in return. This will get the ball rolling for a viable solution to ending this mess we are in with fuel prices. When oil companies see a change is coming they will have to compete. This would drive down fuel prices immediately. Our plan would also put people back to work at GM and other manufacturers as they started to build FCVs in mass quantity.

Scam, trying to get a few bucks off stupid people who just saw a bit about hydrogen cars on tv. Good luck Ghas! Im sure a few people will be stupid enough to send you money.

The good news for me is time will prove the naysayers wrong and show they all are just not very bright for bashing something or someone they obviously know nothing about. When you see the news story for the locations going in I'm sure I will never receive an apology from any of these people but that will be fine because we will all see who was right in the end.

I have an idea for Newghas.

Why not modify your website so that it does more than state your opinions on something, and ask for money. Why not put up forums, develop a subscriber base, start a dialog with corporations where you could DO some of the things you are discussing... sort of like Lyle did here with the gm-volt site.

Writing responses to anyone on this forum isn't going to get you any closer to your dream. Whereas doing something to actually use some of that money you are collecting might.

Just a thought. :)

The good news for me is time will prove the naysayers wrong and show they all are just not very bright for bashing some.....

There are two things that we can do now, with competitive prices (or near competitive):
A. Produce large amounts of renewable electricity
B. Convert the heating of houses with non-carbon sources.

A. Will free up carbon sources for the car. Gives us time to develop the Volt or hydrogen. This is for a large part a government issue.

B. Changing the heating of houses is something that can be done with local initiatives. Heating pumps, solar collector or deep geothermic. That are your three options. Will also free up carbon sources for the car (about 5% of the oil, 1 million barrels a day, 125 million dollar a day).

Hydrogen is very well possible, but I consider at least 5 years away. But A (the Pickensplan) will give enough time.

Lucas

jrigg-Eventually my site will have forums and more information as we grow and have a full time web team. We just do not have the manpower at this time. Also it takes up a lot of my time trying to debunk people making comments on things they know nothing about and I feel it necessary to at least post some comment when people attack my plan or me personally. So far all of the money spent for the site and everything to do with it has come out of my pocket. So when someone says I am only in it for the money all I can do is laugh. Things are progressing fast. We have secured a backer for our first 100+ locations and are working with several auto manufacturers, organizations, and private companies and will have major announcements in the next few months about our program. Unfortunately not all of us trying to make a change have $58 million laying around to spend on advertising and getting free press on every major news channel to sell our program. You can take whatever opinion you please on the info on the page but the reality of what is on the page if you read it with an open mind does not endorse any one theory or opinion. The whole objective of the page is to make people think. If you read all of the page you will see comments like whether you believe global warming or not, and the opening comment is to dramatically and positively impact our environment and economy. Our main goal is to reduce and eventually eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels for transportation. Our goal is mass participation for change. Eventually when we have a few hundred locations and people see change coming participation will increase. The good news for early participants is they will receive the best discounts that never expire. Eventually we will reduce discount rates and programs as we grow. As stated in previous responses the best part of my program is when all is said and done I will be able to come back to sites like this and see all of the naysayers and remember all of the stuff I had to deal with in the begining. We have had the site up and going for just over 7 weeks and have made huge advances towards our goal. Are we perfect yet and have everything working like we want? No, but just sit back and watch what happens.... We will change the way the world fuels up and have a huge impact on gas prices for everyone when oil companies see a real change is coming.