: How to disable and REMOVE Onstar---> because it is spying on you whether its on or o



student13
12-25-2011, 07:29 PM
Hi there, recently there have been very disturbing things in the news about OnStar, like
1. they will collect data about you including vehicle tracking -->even if you do not use the service.

2.Even if you do not use the service, by court order it can be turned on and track you.

3.I do not want someone to be able through electronic methods to disable my car. Because this power can be misused. Yes if my car is stolen I want the cops to shoot out the robber, but if I am in a rural Texas town, where the sheriff is working with teh Texas Chainsaw killer, then I don't want anyone hacker or cop to be able to disable onstar.

So CAN I REMOVE IT FROM A CHEVY VOLT?

Please see the following videos before making opinions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqH5cbYYeM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXvkCFwXweU

spreston
12-25-2011, 07:37 PM
Move to a remote island.

Seriously, you are being tracked every second of the day. Do you not think that your post above can be tracked right back to your house and your PC? Everything you do is tracked.

Remote off-grid island or treatment for paranoia are really the only 2 options in modern society.

BlackVolt
12-25-2011, 08:37 PM
I wish they have Onstar in Australia. There is nothing to worry about. Onstar recently changed their terms and conditions and will not track data from the vehicle once the subscription has been canceled. Like what Spreston said you are being tracked everyday. The government knows how many times you visit McDonald's or by how many times you fill up your car with gas by your EFTPOS receipts and other means. Come on GM, bring Onstar to Australia.

scottf200
12-25-2011, 09:21 PM
So the above is your first post on the forum ?!?


So CAN I REMOVE IT FROM A CHEVY VOLT?


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20110292-501465.html


So, is there a way to disable OnStar completely? Yes, there is. Whew!

OnStar spokesperson Brynn Guster tweeted, "when you start your service, it is enabled. This does begin until Dec. 1 and you can opt out by calling 1-888-4ONSTAR."

We contacted OnStar to clarify the language on the terms and conditions. The vice president of subscriber services, Joanne Finnorn, told us, "if the customer requests us to turn off the two-way connection, we will do as we have always done, and that is honor customers' requests."

"Our guiding practices regarding sharing our subscribers' personal information have not changed. We are always very specific about with whom we share customers' personal information, and how they will use it. We have never sold any personally identifiable information to any third party," Finnorn said about selling user data.

tboult
12-25-2011, 09:33 PM
And if you don't trust onstar enough, you might have your dealer disconnect
simply pull the plugs from the OnStar Module(VCIM). Then if you ever sell it it can be reconnected.

Somewhat discussed in this thread
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?7578-OnStar-Activation-Failure

If you can locate the module itself you can probably plug and unplug when you want it disabled.
as described here
http://chevroletforum.com/forum/hhr-51/onstar-disabling-13889/
(but thats for a HHR)

JamesMcQuaid
12-25-2011, 09:36 PM
The origin of this urban legend is Fox News' Glenn Beck:
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910220013

So you think OnStar is bad:



1. they will collect data about you including vehicle tracking -->even if you do not use the service.

2. Even if you do not use the service, by court order it can be turned on and track you.

Okay, make up your mind; now you don't want OnStar turned off:


if I am in a rural Texas town, where the sheriff is working with teh Texas Chainsaw killer, then I don't want anyone hacker or cop to be able to disable onstar.

The odds of being in a rural Texas town where the sheriff is working with the Texas Chainsaw Killer are remote. It should be further noted that, in any event, OnStar is unlikely to turn itself off at the behest of the Texas Chainsaw Killer.

I see that this is your first post. Okay Glenn, we know it's you :)

PAredvolt
12-25-2011, 10:10 PM
Don't forget to turn off your cell phone. No, better yet, smash it.

student13
12-25-2011, 10:29 PM
I can turn off my phone I cannot turn off OnStar, like cut off power to it, not just disconnect the service. I don't like there is away to track you all the time.

doubledave
12-25-2011, 10:54 PM
I'm sure there's a fuse that you can remove that cuts power to the Onstar. Check the Volt's manual in the section that describes which fuse does what.

PAredvolt
12-25-2011, 11:03 PM
Google "abcnews ginovise cell phone". You may want to take the cell phones battery out.

Selling Volts At Sundance
12-25-2011, 11:50 PM
Hi there, recently there have been very disturbing things in the news about OnStar, like
1. they will collect data about you including vehicle tracking -->even if you do not use the service.

2.Even if you do not use the service, by court order it can be turned on and track you.

3.I do not want someone to be able through electronic methods to disable my car. Because this power can be misused. Yes if my car is stolen I want the cops to shoot out the robber, but if I am in a rural Texas town, where the sheriff is working with teh Texas Chainsaw killer, then I don't want anyone hacker or cop to be able to disable onstar.

So CAN I REMOVE IT FROM A CHEVY VOLT?

Please see the following videos before making opinions. ( No, I like these links better lol )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SwHETnBT1Tw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SwHETnBT1Tw


The news cycle on this story collapsed within 48 hours of the initial release almost 3 months ago. Not an issue. While it concerns me that we are tracked for marketing reasons by our smart phones with GPS tied in, credit card and debit cards, store savings cards, web tracking cookies, persistent flash cookies...the list goes on and on.

Not An ISSUE NOW!

http://www.edmunds.com/industry-center/commentary/onstars-policy-reversal-is-good-news.html

http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Sep/0927_onstar

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/27/technology/onstar_tracking_reversal/index.htm


ps.......I sure like the video links in the above quote balloon much better!! Redirected to a YouTube BOZO Video...No insult to Bozo intended. Yes they are active links in the quote balloon! A Big ROFLOL!



----------------------------------------------------------]=

The Amazing Chevy Volt EREV-Facts Guy

AmazingChevyVolt@aol.com

www.twitter.com/AmazingChevVolt

Wating for rollout of Dow Powerhouse Solar Shingles and paying down new high efficency furnace. Wating for 1st Cyber Grey Allocation/ Spring 2012!!

www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?9525-The-Volt-White-Paper

Reloaded: December 8th 2011
.

student13
12-26-2011, 03:47 AM
Hi there, well first of all I would like to say that I am not a conservative , and I don't like the fact a company can track me. I don't like Glenn Beck,however but because of people like me complaining, they reversed their decision to share your data with private companies, including your name address and geo tracking data.

That does not mean that the police cannot turn on tracking whenever they want to. I just find that creepy, even more creepy than than the fact that my cell position data, is kept forever. Say someone six months in the future wants to know where I was today they have it on file.


Nice to know that I can have the wire disabled.


BTW , aside form this issue I would love to buy a chevy volt, as soon as I get residency. :-)

dandet
12-26-2011, 07:50 AM
Credit cards, mobile phones, OnStar...big brother is always watching!

I am as much of a big government hater as anyone, but I am not going to stop using my cards, or my cell phone, or OnStar. Twice it has saved my rear end when stranded in another OnStar equiped vehicle. Twice I was able to quickly report other emergency situations not directly involving me and I use it all the time for directions to locations in my business that I am not familliar with. Call me naive but I think it is one of the best features GM vehicles have going for them. We are considering having it installed in our Prius that my son is now driving to school now that it is available aftermarket on non GM cars.

Just my thoughts.

Dan

volt11
12-26-2011, 12:36 PM
SO a non-issue. OnStar is a great and reassuring feature. You think they don't know that the first whiff of abusing its capability won't cause a big downturn in business?

I won't even join Facebook, but I'm really glad I have OnStar. I also use EZ-Pass, in fact wouldn't want to be without that, especially on motorcycle. Everyone has to weigh the benefits/downside equation for themselves. But the idea of sounding some kind of alarm bells about OnStar is ridiculous, and of course the kind of thing you'd expect from a maniacal lunatic like Glenn Beck, who'll throw any nonsense against the wall to see what sticks.

A lot of this "government is watching" paranoia is accompanied by an over-inflated sense of self-importance, as if someone would really care about your one in seven billion life.

silvercorvette
12-26-2011, 12:49 PM
I agree with you those evil folks at onstar are in conspiracy with the government and are out to get you, I believe you can disable onstar by pulling a fuse

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/wifi-allergies.jpg

ewiggins
12-26-2011, 01:17 PM
SO a non-issue. OnStar is a great and reassuring feature. You think they don't know that the first whiff of abusing its capability won't cause a big downturn in business?

I won't even join Facebook, but I'm really glad I have OnStar. I also use EZ-Pass, in fact wouldn't want to be without that, especially on motorcycle. Everyone has to weigh the benefits/downside equation for themselves. But the idea of sounding some kind of alarm bells about OnStar is ridiculous, and of course the kind of thing you'd expect from a maniacal lunatic like Glenn Beck, who'll throw any nonsense against the wall to see what sticks.

A lot of this "government is watching" paranoia is accompanied by an over-inflated sense of self-importance, as if someone would really care about your one in seven billion life.

I agree with you that a lot of this 'Government is watching' is hysteria. Do people realize the amount of resources needed to pull this off? If the government did this as a general policy, I would think a lot more crimes would get solved. I don't mind OnStar using the info for marketing services as long as it does not specifically target me (i.e. If I start getting more pet store junk mail because OnStar noticed I like to visit pet stores.

silvercorvette
12-26-2011, 02:10 PM
Keep in mind that when you disable Onstar it will disable the following, remote starting , locking, unlocking via cell phone, notification that someone is mucking around with your plug via cell phone, if you are in an accident that activated the airbags the send you an ambulance even if you are un conscious.

The only reason I got the NAV is because of the Onstar, in my opinion the NAV is useless because you can't program destinations while moving but Onstar will locate the address you are looking for and download it to your NAV while you are moving.

That is not a full list of benefits, if you do some research you can find many more.

volt3939
12-26-2011, 03:03 PM
I don't mind OnStar using the info for marketing services as long as it does not specifically target me (i.e. If I start getting more pet store junk mail because OnStar noticed I like to visit pet stores.

It's more likely that sending an email or posting on a forum about your pet store visits will get you some spam or junk mail than anything from OnStar...

But, wouldn't you want to know about the sale at the pet store?

ewiggins
12-26-2011, 08:11 PM
It's more likely that sending an email or posting on a forum about your pet store visits will get you some spam or junk mail than anything from OnStar...

But, wouldn't you want to know about the sale at the pet store?

LOL how true. There are hundreds of ways companies can get marketing data so OnStar is just another one. I do however hate the junk text messages on my phone. Junk <whatever the method> should not cost the receiver, but only the sender.

Lee Willis
12-27-2011, 10:50 AM
Wow - tempest in a teapot in my opinion. I could care less one way or the other, but on balance I think it is good that Onstar is tracking me. I see more potential benefit (it recognizes when an accident has occurred, it finds the car if stolen) than bad (the black helicopters and storm troopers already know where I sleep each night so they can find me without Onstar's help).

tboult
12-27-2011, 11:04 AM
I agree with you that a lot of this 'Government is watching' is hysteria. Do people realize the amount of resources needed to pull this off? If the government did this as a general policy, I would think a lot more crimes would get solved. I don't mind OnStar using the info for marketing services as long as it does not specifically target me (i.e. If I start getting more pet store junk mail because OnStar noticed I like to visit pet stores.

Though I don't consider it a serious risk I'm also a privacy researcher. It does not take any significant resources. I takes one "warrant" and if they decided you are potential terror risk, that would be a secret warrant. I wonder if OnStar would fight a National security letter (which FBI/police issue themselves without a warrant)?


More importantly, if some government agencies get their way it will not even take that.
In a pending supreme court case
http://blogs.lawyers.com/2011/11/supreme-court-drills-down-on-warrantless-gps-tracking/

The FBI/Law enforcement communities arguing GPS tracking discoloses only public information and that the Fourth Amendment does not prevent police from tracking peoplesí public comings and goings. Why then should our public movements be protected, even from constant, precise, intense and prolonged surveillance?

Depending on the outcome of that court case, I would expect a legal argument saying that the data that onstar is collecting is effectively public and hence they can request with without a warrant. They can already collect toll RFID data and such.

Lee Willis
12-27-2011, 12:30 PM
One thing I wish is that we had a video cameria recorder on every street corner - as they do, so some extent, in the UK (at least in all the comtemporary British detective shows like Waking the Dead, etc., that I watch). It would help a lot with crime and other public issues and its in public. There are some really mean, nasty people out there in the world that want to do me wrong, and we need to means to see and watch them.

It does not bother me if that means that "big brother" is also watching me, as long as we have a strong court system -- big brother is watching out for the bad guys, I'm not one and they'll recognize that if they follow and monitor me (if they don't die of boredom first).

solar_dave
12-27-2011, 12:53 PM
(if they don't die of boredom first).

Yeah I agree, the only thing they will see from me is my coffee addiction, the weasels (grandkids) doing stuff, and the wife hitting the sales!

BryCola
12-27-2011, 01:57 PM
If they wanna "track" me to work...to my house...to the mall...to the grocery store...and on visits to my parent's house...then more power to them. If I'm worried about being tracked, them I'm probably going somewhere I shouldn't be going. I do understand the whole privacy thing, but as someone else said, we're tracked all the time anyway. Have a cell phone? They can track you with that too. Have a PC connected to the internet? Same thing.

DCFusor
12-28-2011, 01:02 AM
Tracked all the time, sure. I don't own a cel phone anyway. Why should my time, wherever I am, be free to anyone who finds out my number? Willing slavery, that. Not for me. So "they" know my inet connected computer is in my house. That's not a big reach.

But the ability to shut down the car is evil.
Let's hack into yours, so we can shut it down when you're in the middle of nowhere, beat you to death, and then have some fun with your girlfriend...why should it have to be a cop that asks onstar to shut off a car? Can they see the uniform over the phone? All you need is whatever authentication they use to hack this for your own uses.

Or, unlock you car to steal it, whatever. It's quite a step beyond just knowing where your car is.

Do you trust every single cop out there? It only takes one bad one.

F16BMATHIS
12-28-2011, 10:28 AM
It's not a paranoia, its mistakes by humans. I don't want Onstar either, but I'm more worried that someone will disable my car by mistake. Being 20+ years military, we used to talk about how Japan could start a war with the U.S. and dis-able everyones car so they couldn't get to the Air Force base. Today, it could all be done from a computer inside Iran, China... Once disabled, good luck on trying to re-enable it

F16BMATHIS
12-28-2011, 10:47 AM
I read an article yesterday where there's a team of people hacking into the Onstar on vehicles to unlock and steal them. Though this is just a group of people trying to show it can be done, the point is, it can be done!

Top_Speed1
12-28-2011, 10:57 AM
I agree with you those evil folks at onstar are in conspiracy with the government and are out to get you, I believe you can disable onstar by pulling a fuse

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/wifi-allergies.jpg

Freeqn FUNNY!

water0033
10-27-2012, 04:04 PM
I've seen many other GM owners removed their OnStar on their cars due to spy issues.

But not on the volts yet, I personally do not like that idea of been spied :(

Has anyone done that or knows where that silver box is located at?

thanks

WopOnTour
10-27-2012, 04:08 PM
There's no "spying" taking place. Just a lot of false information
I guess depending on your definition of "spying" is rather broad but if being able to locate your car when YOU request it, or calling Onstar with your coordinates if/when you are in an accident or is "spying" to you well...
Really the only thing Volt specific is the collection of your energy usage and distance travelled

EVERYTHING being disclosed to Onstar is clearly stated in yoru Onstar agreement, and also avaialble on www.onstar.com


WopOnTour

fotomoto
10-27-2012, 04:20 PM
AFAIK, it's attached to the inside of the windshield just to the right of the rear view mirror.






But of course that is only where they want you to think it is.......

PowerTrip
10-27-2012, 04:40 PM
... I personally do not like that idea of been spied :(

A little paranoid, are we? ;)

Just park your Volt in your "Doomsday Bunker" and maybe the OnStar signal won't get out! LOL! <just joking!>

Steverino
10-27-2012, 05:16 PM
Remove the OnStar antenna. That should disable the following "spying" situations:
"Help! I've been in a serious accident!" Oops, no OnStar
"I need route guidance" Oops, no OnStar
"I need a map downloaded" Oops, no OnStar
"I need my car software updated" Oops, no OnStar
"Help! My car has been stolen." Oops, no OnStar
"Help! My car is having an issue, can you tell what they problem is and give me the diagnostic codes?" Oops, no OnStar
"My monthly efficiency report, diagnostic report, and maintenance alerts are not working!" Oops, no OnStar

P.S. You may want to turn off your computer's camera. We are all able to see you through that. And put some pants on, haha :)

lnfinity
10-27-2012, 05:25 PM
My only concern with OnStar is the new update software function. I like my car the way it runs now and don't want any major changes.

IE: Say there is a concern with the current level of regen in "low" and an update is sent out which moderates it.

water0033
10-27-2012, 05:32 PM
Remove the OnStar antenna will not shut off their fuction, so if you like to disagree and not to help,
please DO NOT respond this, I am here to ask for help, not to hear pro onstar's commands.

we paid for the car and Is the personal chioices if they like to keep it or not,
yes is free services and I do not want it, end of story.

Don't any of you feel weird when they gave you 3 or 5 years free services and when buyer said they do not want it activated, chevy said "NO YOU MUST activate and can not be shutted off"? If that's such a good stuffs, why do they give for free and do not charge?

try to some google search, you will find onstar's are tapping phone calls, throwing voice promo ad while you are driving, you like that?

kns
10-27-2012, 06:20 PM
Don't any of you feel weird when they gave you 3 or 5 years free services and when buyer said they do not want it activated, chevy said "NO YOU MUST activate and can not be shutted off"? If that's such a good stuffs, why do they give for free and do not charge?

It is my understanding that the vehicle owner can tell OnStar not to collect data from the vehicle. However, as was pointed out, there are some valuable maintenance, safety and security services provided by OnStar based on vehicle data.

I, too, am concerned about the increasing loss of privacy that accompany use of many of today's services. Unfortunately, the only way to escape such data collection is to live as a hermit on a mountain top. Not a very practical or enjoyable (for me) solution.

KNS

fotomoto
10-27-2012, 06:38 PM
Unfortunately, the only way to escape such data collection is to live as a hermit on a mountain top.

On top of the mountain? Classic newb mistake. The spy satellites can see you up there. HELLO!












;)

Unicorn
10-27-2012, 06:41 PM
I've seen many other GM owners removed their OnStar on their cars due to spy issues.

But not on the volts yet, I personally do not like that idea of been spied :(

Has anyone done that or knows where that silver box is located at?

thanks

I understand that it seems a little strange, but I think you really have to get used to the idea. That's just where we are right now and we're never going back.

If this freaks you out, I hope you don't carry a cell phone. Same deal... Ever wonder how google maps gets its traffic information or how you can have a nearby restaurant recommendation? Location services. Pretty soon we'll be able to locate people by virtue of the fact that they are the only ones in the area NOT giving off a signal. Better get used to it...

smurf12345
10-27-2012, 07:28 PM
You could pull the fuse for the onstar module. It is on the left side of the dash when you open the door. However, I believe you will loose Bluetooth, voice control, and compass as well (at least for 2011 and 2012).

Norm51
10-27-2012, 09:19 PM
..we paid for the car and Is the personal chioices if they like to keep it or not,
yes is free services and I do not want it, end of story.


Did you trade or keep the RX7? Any bells and electronic whistles on the 97?

shiranpuri
10-27-2012, 09:29 PM
better get rid of or rewire your cell phone too, while you're at it. oh, and, your computer. (you can estimate your location pretty well on a computer even without gps/cell connection - never mind tracking what you search for on top of that).
oh and, credit cards - don't want them to know where you've been.
also any other cards with some sort of id, like the grocery club cards...
*list goes on*

fishhawk
10-27-2012, 09:42 PM
try to some google search, you will find onstar's are tapping phone calls, throwing voice promo ad while you are driving, you like that?
Hmmm. I've Onstar for 12 yrs in 5 vehicles and have never heard of this, or experienced it. Sounds like a bunch of Internet disinformation.

comanchepilot
10-27-2012, 09:57 PM
If people don't want the services they should not be required to keep the equipment installed, right?

You are trackable - so if you don't want to be trackable you need to remove the unit.

And that laundry list of things you don't get without Onstar, then its just every other car in my house - am really giving something up?

its not wingnutty - some people just don't want the government to be able to track them on a whim . . well, a whim and warrant - mostly.

MDDave
10-27-2012, 10:02 PM
If you own the car it's clearly your prerogative to do what you want with it, but it's not clear to me what you are worried about. Have there been incidents of OnStar doing something nefarious with the data they collect? I suppose they could loose control of the data through a rogue employee or due to theft, but you are exposed to that risk in a hundred ways already, so OnStar isn't an unusual risk. Whether you have OnStar or not, your home address, work address, and a bunch of other information is already easily available and if anyone really cared they could probably figure out your normal travel patterns more easily that way than they could compromise OnStar. If you are doing something that you need to hide because it is illegal or dishonest in some way, well then I don't have a a lot of sympathy for your situation.

The bottom line is that your risk is limited, and no one at GM or in the government cares where you are located at any given time. The benefits of OnStar, which are many, far outweigh the risk of someone spying in you.

Steverino
10-27-2012, 11:23 PM
Remove the OnStar antenna will not shut off their fuction, so if you like to disagree and not to help,
please DO NOT respond this, I am here to ask for help, not to hear pro onstar's commands.

Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, the suggestion to remove the antenna was an attempt at help.

Can you explain what "spying" you need protection from? I mean are you seriously concerned that OnStar knows your car's remaining oil life? Do you have any documented cases where this has somehow been used against the car owner?

You can do whatever you want with your car, but I'm curious (and I suspect many other are too) as to what is fueling your OnStar concern.

water0033
10-28-2012, 01:59 AM
All I asked was where that box is, instead of getting real helps,

unlike other chevy forums poeple are avoiding onstar
most here just pro-onstar pro-gov trying to laugh at and make fun at, good job !!
Any of you ever thought why they give you free 3~5 years onstar while you have NO RIGHT NOT to ACTIVATE IT ??????????????????

there are thousands and thousands of people hate onstar,

here's one on youtube showing his face with many f words saying how onstar screwed him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkWPtyFV6iM

and many new reports can be seen, they don't just lie and write those things, if those are lied, why does GM NOT suing them???

http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/bizarre/data-mining/gallery.html?curPhoto=11

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/21/gms-onstar-now-spying-on-your-car-for-profit-even-after-you-uns/


this is dangerous world we live in and I choose not to give up my privacy for safety,
If you do not agree what I said, just ignore it, no need to start a war for that.
unless you got paid for doing this, OK, then sorry I understand

Again if any of you did remove the onstar, please share your story or at least tell us where the box is, thanks

PowerTrip
10-28-2012, 02:49 AM
Really? The guy in the video is real nut case, IMHO. Highway Patrol radar jamming device? Spy unit? Doesn't own a cell phone. Geez, he probably does have Doomsday bunker.

If he (or anyone else) doesn't like the OnStar service, why the h3|| did he buy the car? Go for some other model without OnStar. That's it, plain and simple.

shiranpuri
10-28-2012, 03:23 AM
All I asked was where that box is, instead of getting real helps,you were given suggestions...


Any of you ever thought why they give you free 3~5 years onstar while you have NO RIGHT NOT to ACTIVATE IT ??????????????????
Partly data collection for future improvements/tweaks and service, I'd imagine. The volt is a bit more complex, after all. Other models typically have a lot less time included. If you really wanted to, I imagine you could discontinue it - but that alone won't do any good for the paranoid.


there are thousands and thousands of people hate onstar,
Pulling numbers out of a hat, there's thousands and thousands of people who like it too, apparently. As with most things, I guess.


here's one on youtube showing his face with many f words saying how onstar screwed him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkWPtyFV6iM
Doesn't really give an indication of how "onstar screwed him", though it does give an indication that he's not too savvy about some of the things he talked about. He must be quite special for whoever to be tapping into his car, that for whatever odd reason causes certain... glitches... such bad wiretapping... :rolleyes: The others... well, apparently there was some concerns with a change regarding inactive customers, which were dealt with afaik.


and many new reports can be seen, they don't just lie and write those things, if those are lied, why does GM NOT suing them???
Bad PR either way, not worth it, conspiracy theories go a dime a dozen, take your pick. Lots of false/misleading news/claims around as it is, onstar, volt or otherwise.


this is dangerous world we live in and I choose not to give up my privacy for safety,
If you do not agree what I said, just ignore it, no need to start a war for that.
unless you got paid for doing this, OK, then sorry I understand
Can't argue there, privacy's out the window for pretty much everything - which is the point some of us are making. (got any phone service at all? internet? etc). Do you scan every nook & cranny of your car for tracking devices every day?

If you insist though, suggestions have been made.

Oh yeah, there was also a series by drive for innovation where they took apart and identified the electronics and other components of the volt.

jeffhre
10-28-2012, 05:21 AM
Wow...the Volt really is getting mainstream.

Cord
10-28-2012, 07:26 AM
All you need do is disable the GPS patch antenna.

I can tell you that only removing the whip antenna will not disable any onstar functions in a major city.

It a good idea to shine a uv and ir light source on the car top every week and look for the big X :-)

Steverino
10-29-2012, 12:46 PM
Oh sure, disable the GPS patch antenna.

But what about all the computer modules in the car that are recording and storing all sorts of data about me and my driving and my how many miles I've traveled and gas I've used and my preferred radio stations, etc. Where are all those spying black boxes located so I can disable them too?

clint fisher
11-28-2012, 04:52 AM
Can anyone here answer the OP's question without a wise-ass judgement about why he would not want to use OnStar? At least *one* poster suggested a fuse to remove. That's a start!

There are _quite_a_few_ valid reasons to want to know how to disable OnStar, and nearly all of you guys want to call him paranoid?

What if OnStar gets hacked or spoofed and starts spamming disabling commands to OnStar vehicles? A denial-of-service attack has already happened with Ford's numerical entry system, so it's not that far-fetched of a scenario. What if it's an attack on our national security? Talk about part of an effective opening salvo - just hack OnStar to disable every Chevy in the nation! So, one could legitimately say it could be a matter of national security knowing how to *at-least* disable one's connection to the OnStar mothership.

And what about corrupt OnStar employees or Law Enforcement? Maybe if your wife unwantedly attracts a creepy stalker-buddy who happens to be in Law Enforcement, or is an OnStar employee, you might not be so fond of your OnStar system then. Yea, I think you'd want to know which wire to cut, like, flippin' ASAP. Don't think this stuff doesn't already happen. Maybe not at OnStar specifically, but abuse of a system can and almost always will occur.

To be sure, these things are remote possibilities, but then, for most of us, so are fires, thefts, floods, earthquakes, etc.. We still *prepare* for those possibilities.

So, as someone else who is dead-serious about *knowing* how to disable my Volt's OnStar, for legitimate reasons of personal safety, privacy, and possibly even national-security, can someone please answer the question seriously?

In case you forgot it is pretty much: Where is the VCIM module?

If you can't answer the question, at least take your opinions of the merits of OnStar to another thread please.

Thank you,
-Clint

Ron C
11-28-2012, 07:51 AM
I don't know where it is, perhaps you can check the appropriate service manual for your vehicle.

One thing to be concerned about is that the OnStar module may be considered an integral part of the Voltec system, and as such may cause the vehicle to become undrivable if it fails. That last part is pure conjecture, but remember that the Volt IS a different beast than other GM vehicles w/OnStar.

trm2
11-28-2012, 09:22 AM
Start with the antenna and see where it leads you. Seriously, it is hooked up somewhere and if you aren't afraid to take the car apart to remove the module, following the wire shouldn't scare you either.

Steverino
11-28-2012, 02:09 PM
Start with the antenna and see where it leads you. Seriously, it is hooked up somewhere and if you aren't afraid to take the car apart to remove the module, following the wire shouldn't scare you either.

+1. That, and/or a Helms service manual (~$200) should get you there. These OnStar units sell on ebay for about $200 so you could end up with the manual for free. Let us know if any issues arise after you disconnect the unit.


NOTE: I merged two "how to disable OnStar" threads into just this one thread given the questions and answer cover much the same ground, but a year apart.

TwistnShift
12-05-2012, 06:15 AM
I can turn off my phone I cannot turn off OnStar, like cut off power to it, not just disconnect the service. I don't like there is away to track you all the time.

Guess what, your cell phone never actually turns off. It goes into a soft-off mode. The only way to completely disable your cell phone is to pull the battery. If you're worried about On-Star I think you should take a serious look at the world around you. Isolating On-Star won't protect you. Cameras, Cell phone, Face recognition, RFid tags, and many many more watch and track you all day, every day. Enjoy the added safety having the ability to have an ambulance dispatched to you even if you're knocked out or worse and move on.

BronxVolt2013
12-05-2012, 06:51 AM
If you are doing nothing wrong why would you care. In this day in age you are being tracked , recorded, scanned, swiped in just about everything you do during the day. I mean really if you are that worried about big brother then live in a cave.

An stop watching those morons on Fox.

BronxVolt2013
12-05-2012, 06:59 AM
Disconnect the Onstar antenna, problem solved.

ckk
12-05-2012, 12:39 PM
take the tinfoil you use to make your hat to keep away the UN/commie/librul/martian mindscans, and wrap it all around the whole car

Steverino
12-05-2012, 12:56 PM
My guess is the OnStar unit is either in the cargo area (remove the cover for full access to the battery area) or under the front dash. I'd check the cargo area first as it's likely the easier of the two to expose. If it's tucked under the dash, I'd look to see if it's accessible from the foot wells. Otherwise, you've got some dash or center console dis-assembly to do. If anyone does locate the unit, please post here so we can share the info with anyone else who has caught the OnStar phobia.

scottf200
12-05-2012, 01:00 PM
Related to this thread is that this story states:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2012/1203/Chevy-Volt-drivers-top-100-million-miles-driven


(The actual total is about 25 percent higher, since the counter only logs miles from those 80 percent of owners who've agreed to let Chevy track their performance via the Onstar telematics system.)

mikeg3
12-05-2012, 01:12 PM
I agree with you those evil folks at onstar are in conspiracy with the government and are out to get you, I believe you can disable onstar by pulling a fuse

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/silvercorvette/wifi-allergies.jpg
GROVER, is that you?

WopOnTour
12-05-2012, 05:31 PM
My guess is the OnStar unit is either in the cargo area (remove the cover for full access to the battery area) or under the front dash. I'd check the cargo area first as it's likely the easier of the two to expose. If it's tucked under the dash, I'd look to see if it's accessible from the foot wells. Otherwise, you've got some dash or center console dis-assembly to do. If anyone does locate the unit, please post here so we can share the info with anyone else who has caught the OnStar phobia.It's under the instrument panel. Far RH side on the 2011 and next to the steering column on the 2012-13. There's a caged housing/structure around it and a fastener holding a trap door on the bottom of the cage. The lower knee bolsters will need to be removed for access. Then disconnect connectors and remove the fastener and you can "swing" open the little trap door and the VCIM drops out the bottom.

Cant recommend pulling this module though. Serious loss of functionality, but those that do will discover that soon enough I suppose.
WOT

Steverino
12-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Thanks WOT.

I sure won't be disabling mine and have zero desire to do so, but there seems to be a subculture that has this at the top of their "modification and hack" to-do list. They can now rest easy. Or, can they? :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYrvrXBJv3U

Rampage_Rick
12-06-2012, 02:55 AM
Guess what, your cell phone never actually turns off. It goes into a soft-off mode. The only way to completely disable your cell phone is to pull the battery. If you're worried about On-Star I think you should take a serious look at the world around you. Isolating On-Star won't protect you. Cameras, Cell phone, Face recognition, RFid tags, and many many more watch and track you all day, every day. Enjoy the added safety having the ability to have an ambulance dispatched to you even if you're knocked out or worse and move on.If turning off a cell phone doesn't really turn it off, then everyone on an airplane is breaking the law. Strangely, if I turn off my phone with 75% battery it will still have 75% battery when I turn it on a few days later. Do they now come with tiny nuclear reactors to power them in "soft off" mode?

Sadly, some people think everything on CSI is accurate... Now let's enhance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk)!

Much of the rest is true. CCTV everywhere, facial recognition, and vehicle tracking. Of course, you've got to give them a reason to put in the effort...

"1984, you're right man! That's a typo. Orwell's here now, he's livin' large. We have no names man, no names, we are nameless!"

vern748
12-26-2012, 06:51 PM
Hi All,

I HAD to re-awaken this thread since it the funniest stuff I have read in a long time. I really liked the "tiny nuclear reactors" in the last post...OMG.

Yes, your cell phone is always 'on' unless you take out the batteries. Because your power meter has not gone down doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't take much power to ping off a cell tower to verify location. You iPhone users need to be extra aware. Please read up on cell phone technology.

For the rest that want OnStar turned off, knock yourself out. But you got to know that posting in a public forum, clicking on that Facebook link, using that credit card at the store is doing more tracking than what your car or OnStar could ever do. Just an FYI, going to this website, GM-volt, causes 17 different cookies or trackers or tokens to record your activities. DoubleClick, Evidon Notice, eXelate are just 3 active trackers on this page.

Get a grip people. ...but keep it coming, its very amusing

Steverino
12-26-2012, 07:15 PM
I HAD to re-awaken this thread since it the funniest stuff I have read in a long time. I really liked the "tiny nuclear reactors" in the last post...OMG.

Get a grip people. ...but keep it coming, its very amusing

Shhhhh! The OnStar NoTrackees were all sleeping and now have woken them up.

By the way, could you move to the side a bit? I am having a hard time seeing what is behind you...

vern748
12-26-2012, 07:25 PM
Shhhhh! The OnStar NoTrackees were all sleeping and now have woken them up.

By the way, could you move to the side a bit? I am having a hard time seeing what is behind you...

That actually very funny. If you have a laptop with a built in camera, it is actually very easy to turn the camera on and "see" who is using the machine remotely. CompuTrace/Absolute, a computer theft tracking service we use, allows us to track machine and take video's using the built in camera, since CompuTrace is part of the BIOS. Doing this to a USB camera is more difficult, but still very doable.

So, make sure you put a band-aid over your built in video cameras.
PS. The machine doesn't even need to be 'on'. We can do that for you.

category4
12-26-2012, 07:27 PM
Really? The guy in the video is real nut case, IMHO. Highway Patrol radar jamming device? Spy unit? Doesn't own a cell phone. Geez, he probably does have Doomsday bunker.

If he (or anyone else) doesn't like the OnStar service, why the h3|| did he buy the car? Go for some other model without OnStar. That's it, plain and simple.

Laser jammer, not a radar jammer. Laser jammers are quite effective, radar jammers are very illegal and don't work very well on the newer digital radar units.

Here's a video of the Laser Interceptor on my Corvette.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzf6mZPcq5c

Dyohn
12-26-2012, 07:54 PM
I thought about disabling OnStar but the voices in my head told me it was one of the ways they find me, and if they can't find me I'd be all alone. I don't want to be alone...

This thread is seriously funny, and I love the tin-foil cat-hat. :)

TwistnShift
12-29-2012, 12:36 PM
If turning off a cell phone doesn't really turn it off, then everyone on an airplane is breaking the law. Strangely, if I turn off my phone with 75% battery it will still have 75% battery when I turn it on a few days later. Do they now come with tiny nuclear reactors to power them in "soft off" mode?



Hi All,

Yes, your cell phone is always 'on' unless you take out the batteries. Because your power meter has not gone down doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't take much power to ping off a cell tower to verify location. You iPhone users need to be extra aware. Please read up on cell phone technology.



Exactly and the power buttons on smart phones are soft buttons which means they are not a hard switch. There is always something powered to wake up the OS when you press the power button. This means that if there are any FCC or government required setups inside your cell phone they WILL have power unless you remove the battery. How long did pagers last a long time ago on just one AAA battery? Now compare that to the power output of a Lithium pack in a modern day phone. In "off" mode it would take a long long time to lose any state of charge plus who leaves their phone off for over a month? You'd never notice.

focher
01-02-2013, 05:44 PM
The odds of being in a rural Texas town where the sheriff is working with the Texas Chainsaw Killer are remote.
I really appreciated that you weren't prepared to rule out this possibility outright ...

Norm51
01-02-2013, 08:01 PM
JamesMcQuaid said: "The odds of being in a rural Texas town where the sheriff is working with the Texas Chainsaw Killer are remote. It should be further noted that, in any event, OnStar is unlikely to turn itself off at the behest of the Texas Chainsaw Killer."


I really appreciated that you weren't prepared to rule out this possibility outright ...

I had stopped reading this thread back in October but, on a lark, decided to take a peak today.

TTCSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Texas_Chain_Saw_Massacre) was filmed a few mile north of the Austin, Tx. metro area near Round Rock. North of there is Ft. Hood. Back in the '70s [and before then, I would imagine] soldiers on leave would take the shortcut over to IH-35 from post to Austin through a hamlet called Florence, Texas. It was alledged [many, many times] that the only red light was controlled by the local police to ticket the unsuspecting G.I's.

I was having the windows tinted on our Volt on Sunday. While waiting, I struck up a conversation with another customer that happened to be an active Army medic. One of his duty stations happened to have been Ft. Hood.

I asked if he had ever heard of Florence. When the laughter stopped he admitted that that old trick was STILL being played on servicemen and women.

@focher: It could happen!!:cool::cool:

VoltageDrop
01-02-2013, 09:19 PM
......paranoid much???

category4
01-02-2013, 09:40 PM
......paranoid much???

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not after you!!!

Steverino
01-02-2013, 10:09 PM
It's under the instrument panel. Far RH side on the 2011 and next to the steering column on the 2012-13. There's a caged housing/structure around it and a fastener holding a trap door on the bottom of the cage. The lower knee bolsters will need to be removed for access. Then disconnect connectors and remove the fastener and you can "swing" open the little trap door and the VCIM drops out the bottom.

Cant recommend pulling this module though. Serious loss of functionality, but those that do will discover that soon enough I suppose.
WOT

This may show where the Gobmint is hiding their brain-wave spy tracker, YMMV.

If this is the unit, I have read online (but not verified) the following: Disconnect the battery negative cable. Remove the instrument panel lower trim panel insulator. Remove Communication Interface Module Bracket Bolt, Open the bottom of the hinged bracket and slide the module downward. Disconnect the electrical connections.

I recommend not doing this and am not even sure this is the unit or the correct instructions. You are on your own. You break it you own it. Proceed with caution, or better yet, not at all. If you are the brave, adventurous, pioneering type and want to proceed anyway, tell us how it goes (and what problems resulted).

8596

category4
01-02-2013, 10:18 PM
If anyone should have disconnected Onstar because they were afraid the info might get sold to Law Enforcement it would have been me when I had the Corvette. Never had anyone knock on the door from the local LEO's, but did have a LIDAR speed gun manufacturer that wanted to see how effective their new LIDAR unit was against my Vette!!

Turns out they tracked me down through my YouTube videos, so we should probably be more worried about what we put out there ourselves than Onstar selling to third parties.

John_Hatchett
02-23-2013, 10:22 AM
Since OnStar is not available for our European cohorts, I doubt the car will suffer functionality from having the module disabled. I would prefer an on/off switch, or pulling a fuse, rather than actually pulling a wire or a module out.

Bash
07-04-2013, 12:57 AM
This is the way to do it. I hate when ppl cant just answer a question. I wanted my onstar disabled and all i kept finding was criticism. I found my own way and it works. 100%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAbTy_jFcbc

Upper5Percent
07-04-2013, 01:30 AM
I just figured out who the OP was...:)
http://theblogofprogress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/0609-edward-snowden.jpg_full_600-300x200.jpg

ehenyo
07-14-2013, 03:59 AM
I just figured out who the OP was...:)
http://theblogofprogress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/0609-edward-snowden.jpg_full_600-300x200.jpg


yes, who is laughing now!!!

Upper5Percent
08-14-2013, 12:22 AM
Well...don't get a GPS jammer...:rolleyes:

http://autos.aol.com/article/new-jersey-gps-airport-newark-gary-bojczak/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl27|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D357612

jfkirk
08-14-2013, 01:27 AM
I wonder if we have drones for leakers yet.

Steverino
08-14-2013, 01:48 AM
In your mind what is a gps blocker and what can it do to help you? Only when you are in the situation that the gps blocker is need you will understand how important and useful such kind of device is. Gaining more knowledge of the device? Just start and then you will have access to the best GPS jammer.

Is this Confucius? Or just confusing? :)

telveer
09-06-2013, 04:31 PM
Hi there, recently there have been very disturbing things in the news about OnStar, like
1. they will collect data about you including vehicle tracking -->even if you do not use the service.

2.Even if you do not use the service, by court order it can be turned on and track you.

3.I do not want someone to be able through electronic methods to disable my car. Because this power can be misused. Yes if my car is stolen I want the cops to shoot out the robber, but if I am in a rural Texas town, where the sheriff is working with teh Texas Chainsaw killer, then I don't want anyone hacker or cop to be able to disable onstar.

So CAN I REMOVE IT FROM A CHEVY VOLT?

Please see the following videos before making opinions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqH5cbYYeM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXvkCFwXweU

Per Volt manual - Fuse F9 in Instrument Panel Fuse Block (Left Side) is for OnStar. Remove it and see if OnStar is still working (use OnStar website or app and send a remote command). Drive the car around in a safe area and make sure everything else works.

Page 319: http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals%20and%20Videos/02_pdf/2k12volt.pdf#page=319

shoemakj
09-06-2013, 05:49 PM
Per Volt manual - Fuse F9 in Instrument Panel Fuse Block (Left Side) is for OnStar. Remove it and see if OnStar is still working.

A true member of the black helicopter/tin foil hat crowd would know that fuse is just a diversion. When the Onstar module detects that no power is coming through the F9 fuse, it simply shuts down the user interface, but keeps dutifully reporting back to the mothership via a secondary, on-board power supply. ;)

Fulgerite
09-06-2013, 06:30 PM
I hope he is also ready to get rid of his cell phone and cancel all of his credit cards... Because they can be used to track your position too... Cell phones can even be turned on remotely to record sound even when NOT making a call. Your cell phone can be used as a BUG by the NSA.

Steverino
02-19-2014, 12:19 PM
Hi there, recently there have been very disturbing things in the news about OnStar, like
1. they will collect data about you including vehicle tracking -->even if you do not use the service.

2.Even if you do not use the service, by court order it can be turned on and track you.

3.I do not want someone to be able through electronic methods to disable my car. Because this power can be misused. Yes if my car is stolen I want the cops to shoot out the robber, but if I am in a rural Texas town, where the sheriff is working with teh Texas Chainsaw killer, then I don't want anyone hacker or cop to be able to disable onstar.

So CAN I REMOVE IT FROM A CHEVY VOLT?


A news item today that's related to this old thread. Forget about OnStar conspiracy theories, license plate readers are doing far more and don't require getting help from a private company like OnStar, or a subpena. So if you think removing OnStar is going to keep your comings and goings private, think again student13.

Mass Surveillance of All Car Trips Is Nearly Upon Us
The government wants a national database noting where license plates were spotted.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/02/mass-surveillance-of-all-car-trips-is-nearly-upon-us/283922/

Related OnStar removal thread: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?29761-How-to-physically-disconnect-Onstar&highlight=remove+onstar

Cord
02-20-2014, 05:00 AM
TPMS tire ID

Occult Scientist
02-20-2014, 06:43 AM
Cell phone signals, even when not in use, are being used by some DOTs on major roads for traffic control.

Aseras
01-21-2015, 11:25 PM
A news item today that's related to this old thread. Forget about OnStar conspiracy theories, license plate readers are doing far more and don't require getting help from a private company like OnStar, or a subpena. So if you think removing OnStar is going to keep your comings and goings private, think again student13.

Mass Surveillance of All Car Trips Is Nearly Upon Us
The government wants a national database noting where license plates were spotted.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/02/mass-surveillance-of-all-car-trips-is-nearly-upon-us/283922/

Related OnStar removal thread: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?29761-How-to-physically-disconnect-Onstar&highlight=remove+onstar

this is easily corrected with a license plate frame with a couple of laser IR diodes. to the human eye it is just fine. to ANY digital camera it a huge blinding white dot.

im making a new one for my volt soon. all my other cars have them and they work fantastic. ( i even sold a few to the other cops where i work )

ive also been considering making a windshield IR blinder. kind of like those christmas lights in plastic tubes you see. to human eyes they would be invisible. to a camera it would blow out any visibility into the car, especially at night.

BiggieJohn
01-22-2015, 04:33 PM
A true member of the black helicopter/tin foil hat crowd would know that fuse is just a diversion. When the Onstar module detects that no power is coming through the F9 fuse, it simply shuts down the user interface, but keeps dutifully reporting back to the mothership via a secondary, on-board power supply. ;)

Here is the hardcore removal instructions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0dvLuWna9Q

Dr. Manhattan
07-13-2015, 06:06 PM
Here is the hardcore removal instructions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0dvLuWna9QJeez...it only took three years and 90 replies before someone finally answered the OP's question. He didn't ask for personal opinions about his goal. He asked for information, and only BiggieJohn saw fit to be helpful. The rest of you just got in the way. This is why I quit frequenting Corvette forums, and I'm a life-long Corvette owner. OnStar is one of the reasons that my newest GM car is turning 20 years old this fall. BiggieJohn, thanks for showing me that it's OK to again consider a new GM product...

Norton
07-13-2015, 06:24 PM
Bob,
This is kind of funny. Do you how much usefulness a new Volt has with Onstar functionality. I doubt it.
Have you heard of smartphones? Even with any phone the NSA knows where you are, what you are doing...
You should embrace technology. It is here to stay. A lot can change in 20 years!!!

But I do understand the 'Flatheads Forever' mindset. I have my points-and-coil car standing by for the big one.

Steverino
07-13-2015, 06:54 PM
Jeez...it only took three years and 90 replies before someone finally answered the OP's question.

You are wrong. Read through this thread again.

Along with the teasing he got many replies with legit ideas, some within the same day and others throughout the next year. They ranged from pulling the fuse to removing the antenna to removing the OnStar box.

I agree the YouTube video was very helpful, but you are acting as if we had this info in 2011 and were keeping it a secret.

bro1999
07-14-2015, 12:32 AM
Bob,
This is kind of funny. Do you how much usefulness a new Volt has with Onstar functionality. I doubt it.
Have you heard of smartphones? Even with any phone the NSA knows where you are, what you are doing...


Actually, unless you are a terrorist / illicit actor /bad guy AND NSA has filed for and received a court warrant authorizing surveillance, they have no clue what you are doing if you are on American soil.
FBI, on the other hand, may be all up in your business, since they handle domestic surveillance. :)

If anything, Google knows more about us than any 3 letter agency.

Cord
07-14-2015, 12:40 AM
My insurance co won't even give me an onstar discount because it is too easy to disable.

Seems there are too many internet links spilling the beans :-)

Norton
07-14-2015, 09:25 AM
Weird, I don't have the time to read all 10 pages.

What are the "advantages" of not having onstar, other than not having to pay for it once the original free service is used up?

I think one of the big advantages of having the service is, when a deer comes through your windshield and you hit the ditch, help is on the way. I guess, that is if you are in cell service range. If you are not in cell range then you don't have to worry about the 'Mothership' knowing all your secrets anyway....

somms
07-14-2015, 09:58 AM
Weird, I don't have the time to read all 10 pages.

What are the "advantages" of not having onstar, other than not having to pay for it once the original free service is used up?


OnStar Drops Plan To Monitor Non-Subscribers (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110928/02540116124/onstar-drops-plan-to-monitor-non-subscribers.shtml)

Since GM got burned way back in 2011 for wanting to track non-subscribers and then promptly dropped this idea due this bad press, I'm not entirely sure if there are any advantages to disabling OnStar short of saving a tiny bit of mAh!?:confused:

voldar
07-14-2015, 10:50 AM
The Onstar "spy" is for me a non issue. You guys who use your Android phones as your GPS, just get on your Google account and see all the information Google has about your movements. You can track your car running even from a year ago. THAT is really frightening ! Not what Onstar has about your car in real time.

Upper5Percent
07-14-2015, 01:02 PM
Weird, I don't have the time to read all 10 pages.

What are the "advantages" of not having onstar, other than not having to pay for it once the original free service is used up?

I think one of the big advantages of having the service is, when a deer comes through your windshield and you hit the ditch, help is on the way. I guess, that is if you are in cell service range. If you are not in cell range then you don't have to worry about the 'Mothership' knowing all your secrets anyway....

This is information for thieves, on what to disable when they steal your Volt...:(

Norton
07-14-2015, 02:17 PM
This is information for thieves, on what to disable when they steal your Volt...:(

Woe, Good point...
But has there ever been a stolen Volt?
What self-respecting thief is going to steal a Volt and then try to find a chop-shop interested in Volt part?

rmay635703
07-14-2015, 02:23 PM
Woe, Good point...
But has there ever been a stolen Volt?
What self-respecting thief is going to steal a Volt and then try to find a chop-shop interested in Volt part?

There was video of a guy joy riding a volt and thinking he had to go to the gas station.

ckl
07-14-2015, 02:40 PM
Woe, Good point...
But has there ever been a stolen Volt?
What self-respecting thief is going to steal a Volt and then try to find a chop-shop interested in Volt part?

I've read in the news about thieves targeting the Prius' tiny battery so it wouldn't surprise me that the Volt would be targeted for it's battery as well. Esp. when there is a demand for home battery storage aka. Tesla Powerwall.

Steverino
07-14-2015, 05:00 PM
I've read in the news about thieves targeting the Prius' tiny battery so it wouldn't surprise me that the Volt would be targeted for it's battery as well. Esp. when there is a demand for home battery storage aka. Tesla Powerwall.

Step 1. Lift car 6 ft off the ground. Steady!
Step 2. Unbolt battery cover, disconnect battery and carefully drop the 400 lb battery 6 feet to the ground.
Step 3. Put the 5 ft long, 400 lb battery in your backpack and walk away as if it's normal.

:)

ckl
07-14-2015, 05:41 PM
Step 1. Lift car 6 ft off the ground. Steady!
Step 2. Unbolt battery cover, disconnect battery and carefully drop the 400 lb battery 6 feet to the ground.
Step 3. Put the 5 ft long, 400 lb battery in your backpack and walk away as if it's normal.

:)

You forgot: Step 0. Steal/Tow car to private location away from the general public... LOL.

Dr. Manhattan
07-18-2015, 06:11 AM
Bob,
...Do you how much usefulness a new Volt has with Onstar functionality...Was this intended to mean something? If so, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you were actually trying to say.


Have you heard of smartphones? Even with any phone the NSA knows where you are, what you are doing...OK, this was close enough to making sense that I think I understood your point.


You should embrace technology. It is here to stay...And there it is! I had a feeling you'd get there eventually (monkeys/typewriter, etc)...

I have always embraced useful technology. But, I understand that actually making the mental distinction between useful technology and technology that is created for the sole purpose of selling us more crap (monthly OnStar subscriptions) will require you to stop and think about something for yourself...rather than blindly accepting whatever some authority figure (GM) tells you is good for you. GM's assertion that OnStar is worth the money because it can call for help when you're incapacitated is just laughably absurd. The odds against this scenario ever occurring to you are almost astronomical and, as someone here already pointed out, OnStar won't even work anywhere that your wonderful smart phone won't work...which brings up another point already alluded too: we all have our smart phones, so WTH do we need with OnStar? Anything OnStar can do that your smart phone or NAV system can't, you'd never miss if it was gone. But keep sending them that money; that's why OnStar was created in the first place.


...But I do understand the 'Flatheads Forever' mindset. I have my points-and-coil car standing by for the big one.After considering the source, I don't mind accepting this feeble attempt at belittlement. Ya...you da man, alright!:rolleyes:




You are wrong. Read through this thread again.

Along with the teasing he got many replies with legit ideas, some within the same day and others throughout the next year. They ranged from pulling the fuse to removing the antenna to removing the OnStar box.

I agree the YouTube video was very helpful, but you are acting as if we had this info in 2011 and were keeping it a secret.Point taken. "All the rest of you" was indeed an unfortunate generalization. There were a few other attempts, as you correctly point out. I got a little excited about the "pull-the-F9-fuse" video myself, until I saw that the fuse label on the inside of the fuse cover has the F9 fuse as "OnStar/phone". That started me wondering if pulling F9 would also kill the bluetooth...




...Since GM got burned way back in 2011 for wanting to track non-subscribers and then promptly dropped this idea due this bad press...Or, so they claimed. The only thing protecting our personal privacy/freedom right now is the supposed "good intentions" of the specific people in charge. I don't know about you folks, but I've met and gotten to know several thousand people over the course of my life and I can tell you truthfully that the number of them who were "worth the powder" was not large. With this in mind, and knowing that the people "in charge" come from that same applicant pool...well, forgive me if I have become a bit skeptical regarding the voracity of people who are operating out of the public eye and without any public oversight, human nature being what it is. I'm always amazed at how many people happily and blindly trust in the good intentions of the people who are in control of these potentially invasive technologies. I normally don't dwell on this stuff all that much, really. I don't even own a foil hat. But when I do stop to think about it...yes, it scares me a little bit because I know how people will tend to overstep the bounds of decency (or even legality) if nobody's watching them. End of rant...

bro1999
07-18-2015, 09:29 AM
http://m.quickmeme.com/img/38/3895864c50606b4c59f474e6a10a3dfa06f021294f3793e99d a5ea42e6bf5914.jpg

Dr. Manhattan
07-21-2015, 06:03 PM
Just because the majority are willing to go along with something, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not wrong (eradication of native Americans, slavery, the Irac war, etc.). In coming years, there will be a lot of regrets about how we let this stuff take hold and run wild when we had the chance to place real controls on it...remember where you read it first.

All that aside, many thanks to those here who took the OP's question seriously and tried to help.

Aseras
07-21-2015, 06:44 PM
Woe, Good point...
But has there ever been a stolen Volt?
What self-respecting thief is going to steal a Volt and then try to find a chop-shop interested in Volt part?

You can steal a Volt or any RFID car with a signal booster. It's actually getting really common. If your fob in your pocket is in range the booster will let someone piggyback the signal 100 times the normal range of the fob, so you could be eating out, or at home and they can walk up, unlock your car as if they had the key and at least for keyless start cars, drive away.

It can be done in seconds, there are plans all over the internet now and kids selling them. Be afraid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WFO3jVsLj0

http://jalopnik.com/thieving-teens-likely-used-17-gadget-to-break-into-ny-1698036188

http://jalopnik.com/whats-the-secret-device-thieves-in-california-are-using-471782175

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/style/keeping-your-car-safe-from-electronic-thieves.html?_r=0

Norton
07-21-2015, 07:07 PM
Was this intended to mean something? If so, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you were actually trying to say.
I'd give you a detailed answer, but it is time for me to drive home for the day in my nicely cooled 'Preconditioned' car thanks to the free Onstar service that came with my Volt.
And if a deer happens to come through my windshield and me and the car end up down in the woods, help will be on the way,, hopefully to find me still alive.
Why would Onstar track all my secret wanderings when the FBI, NSA, Gooogle, etc already have all this data real time through my phone?
Only points and coil cars and taking the battery out of your phone keeps you on the DL.

(FBI, "Chit, where'd he go? Someone must have told Dr. M about taking the battery out of his ancient cell phone...")

Aseras
07-21-2015, 07:38 PM
I'd give you a detailed answer, but it is time for me to drive home for the day in my nicely cooled 'Preconditioned' car thanks to the free Onstar service that came with my Volt.
And if a deer happens to come through my windshield and me and the car end up down in the woods, help will be on the way,, hopefully to find me still alive.
Why would Onstar track all my secret wanderings when the FBI, NSA, Gooogle, etc already have all this data real time through my phone?
Only points and coil cars and taking the battery out of your phone keeps you on the DL.

(FBI, "Chit, where'd he go? Someone must have told Dr. M about taking the battery out of his ancient cell phone...")

/full tin foil hat mode

Actually you can track any spark plug powered car by radio. They all emit a "fingerprint" EMF that is specific to that exact car and the range is dozens of miles, easily. With a big enough antenna, or a group of cars acting to triangulate, it can be ranged in the hundreds of miles. specifically to track a single car. No fancy GPS or cell phone IMEI catcher needed. No warrant either.

If you really want to go unseen, off grid you need to be using and old school diesel. Once they are running they are ghosts.

Cord
07-21-2015, 08:29 PM
don't forget the 4 xmitters in the tires with there own ID code

so to be safe remove the fuse AND the tires.

Where does one get real TIN foil these days

Steverino
07-22-2015, 03:54 AM
I'm not worried about GM "spying". I'd be more concerned with online hackers. If hackers start attacking cars, removing OnStar may be a defensive measure. See Black Hat conference developments: http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/07/22/autos-hacking-idINKCN0PV29T20150722

Dr. Manhattan
07-29-2015, 11:56 AM
Very interesting link. I'm now wondering why FCA ever included a remote link facility in the uConnect software, since uConnect has no such active capability. Were they planning for future remote link, OnStar-like consumer features, or were they planning behind-the-scenes monitoring/data mining like GM once was? This technology really is pervasive...it's apparently in all cars now, whether they're offering OnStar-like consumer use capabilities or not.

Dr. Manhattan
08-03-2015, 04:18 AM
Additional food for thought:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/a26213/ownstar-box-can-take-remote-control-of-cars/

Steverino
08-03-2015, 10:35 AM
Additional food for thought:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/a26213/ownstar-box-can-take-remote-control-of-cars/


GM issued a fix almost immediately: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/211483-gm-fixes-refixes-onstar-remotelink-hack

Dr. Manhattan
08-04-2015, 11:27 PM
GM issued a fix almost immediately: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/211483-gm-fixes-refixes-onstar-remotelink-hackWhew! We're all safe now...:rolleyes:

Norton
08-05-2015, 10:10 AM
Nope, the NSA watched and heard you type this, as you were doing it.

Aseras
08-05-2015, 11:28 AM
GM issued a fix almost immediately: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/211483-gm-fixes-refixes-onstar-remotelink-hack

Really you have faith in onstar and GM to fix something correctly, promptly?

If there is one hole their software, there's dozens. The software well of the world has basically been poisoned now and it is all going to go down now. to many people trying to screw others for gain, notoriety or just anarchy.

Govt will do their thing try to lock things down and the internet and software and computers and systems as we know it is going bye. it will all be under the auspices of an Orwellian nightmare big brother keeping you safe, or buried in a alter internet dark net, whatever schism it creates.

Steverino
08-05-2015, 11:30 AM
Really you have faith in onstar and GM to fix something correctly, promptly?

If there is one hole their software, there's dozens. The software well of the world has basically been poisoned now and it is all going to go down now. to many people trying to screw others for gain, notoriety or just anarchy.

Govt will do their thing try to lock things down and the internet and software and computers and systems as we know it is going bye. it will all be under the auspices of an Orwellian nightmare big brother keeping you safe, or buried in a alter internet dark net, whatever schism it creates.

So just stop using the app. Are you that dependent on the app? I never use it.

Dr. Manhattan
03-06-2016, 12:26 PM
If someone has already posted the following information in another thread, please forgive this redundancy...I did search without finding anything.

At the risk of re-initiating this whole argument, I just wanted to point out that, on the gen2s, GM has kindly provided a dedicated OnStar fuse (number 23) in the instrument panel fuse block. Of course, if you did nothing other than pull that fuse, you'd be relying on their word that there is no other power connection to OnStar...and if nearly everyone here is right, and OnStar's sole purpose for existence really is the betterment of the human condition, then simply pulling fuse 23 should be sufficient...

I know the gen1s also had a fuse, but it was labeled "OnStar/Phone" and may or may not have also included the Bluetooth...so disconnecting the circuit board in the enclosure (see previously posted video links) is the sure-fire reliable method of disabling OnStar in a gen1.




So just stop using the app. Are you that dependent on the app? I never use it.I downloaded the app just to try it out, and discovered that it required that I turn on location services in my phone, which I won't do, so I uninstalled it. Ah, well...I have really bad cell coverage at my home location, so OnStar probably wouldn't function here anyway. I think I'll suck on a pistol...:rolleyes:

Norton
03-06-2016, 03:09 PM
>.......OnStar's sole purpose for existence really is the betterment of the human condition, then simply pulling fuse 23 should be sufficient...
>>I downloaded the app just to try it out, and discovered that it required that I turn on location services in my phone, .....
>What about the time when a deer comes through your windshield?
You and your car, without the most important function of Onstar, are down by the creek where no one can see you,,, for how long?

I own a Chevy BEV and use the app at least once a day. More when I want a pre-heated or pre-cooled car.
I never have my location function turned on with my smartphone, unless I'm using some app where it must be used.
Sometimes I'll just ask the car when it will be done charging, if I'm curious.
Little Sparky calls me once a day to say, "I'm done sucking up free electrons. Come and get me when you have a chance."

Dr. Manhattan
03-08-2016, 03:52 AM
If I'm wearing a tin foil hat, then someone has taped a sign on your back that says "I'll buy anything...just try me".


>What about the time when a deer comes through your windshield?
You and your car, without the most important function of Onstar, are down by the creek where no one can see you,,, for how long?...That nearly impossible scenario has been laid out, ad nausium, earlier in this very thread, by many others who are, like you, so frightened by the prospect that they're willing (against the specific advice of non other than Benjamin Franklin) to give up some of their personal freedom (privacy) in order to feel safer. You do remember that the reason you're afraid of that scenario in the first place is because GM (the company that profits from OnStar) told you that you should be, right? Your odds of being struck by a falling aircraft or meteor are probably similar to your odds of experiencing GM's proffered run-in with a deer "down by the creek", and are a good deal higher than the odds of some craven sphincter at an OnStar console somewhere misusing the technology. Additionally, in most places where you're likely to encounter 'a deer down by a creek', OnStar's cellular connection won't work anyway. Hell, it won't even work in my driveway!

No my friend, you've been sold a bill of goods. Lots of folks here have been making fun of those of us who don't fully trust those in charge of invasive technologies like OnStar, but isn't worrying about something that's never going to happen to you (deer/windshield/creek) just another form of paranoia? This fear mongering is purposely foisted on us by GM because they want to wring more money out of us. If you buy into their argument and are happy sending them even more money, good for you. As for me, I'm opting out...


...I own a Chevy BEV and use the app at least once a day. More when I want a pre-heated or pre-cooled car.
I never have my location function turned on with my smartphone, unless I'm using some app where it must be used.
Sometimes I'll just ask the car when it will be done charging, if I'm curious.
Little Sparky calls me once a day to say, "I'm done sucking up free electrons. Come and get me when you have a chance."The OnStar app wouldn't allow me to create an account or use the app until I turned on my location services, so I dumped it...which was no great loss since OnStar won't even work in my driveway, let alone in the garage that I park my car in. When I open the door to that attached garage, I can see the charge indicator on the dash, so I don't need my phone to know when the car is ready to go. I'm glad you're enjoying the app, though. Happy motoring!

Norton
03-08-2016, 09:54 AM
If I'm wearing a tin foil hat, ...
That nearly impossible scenario...give up some of their personal freedom (privacy) in order to feel safer. .... odds of being struck by a falling aircraft or meteor are probably similar to ....run-in with a deer "down by the creek", ..... some craven sphincter at an OnStar console somewhere misusing the technology.....
.... something that's never going to happen to you (deer/windshield/creek) just another form of paranoia? ....
.... I'm glad you're enjoying the app, though. Happy motoring!

Doc, I don't know if there are deer where you are, but I took my deer recently, with my Ducati. It was a draw between the two.
I was at work a few hours late, hurtin fer surtin.... They are a big problem here...

An Onstar AH "misusing" all your valuable info??? How exactly??? Are you going somewhere you don't want her to know about !?!;)

Come on Doc, even you know all the gobmint 3 letter agencies know where you are and all your hopes and dreams,,,
no matter what you do with your silly smartphone settings or your stupid 'lectric car.

And yes, I am enjoying the HayL out of my fast, fun, maintenance free GM BEV, that I drive for free. (Almost, I have to buy tires)
I may pay the ~$200 / yr onstar service when my 3 yrs of free service are up. Maybe I'll try it your way....
What do you pay per year for your smartphone / tracking device service?

bro1999
03-08-2016, 10:15 AM
http://i.imgur.com/lLxCoWM.jpg

Barry
03-08-2016, 10:57 AM
When people express a distaste for these technologies that can be used for surveillance, it is tempting to write it off as paranoia. The logic is “if you are doing nothing wrong, then the government is not interested in you and they can’t possibly track 300 million people (too much data), so they are not tracking you.” That logic makes perfect sense to me. But the assumption is that nobody is doing anything wrong. That can’t be true. If someone has something to hide, then they might have a legitimate fear that they are being tracked. Or if someone has a level of wealth or other circumstance that would make them a possible kidnapping target, or they have access to government secrets, etc. they may have legitimate security concerns that are higher than the average person. Then it is not paranoia at all. It is a valid concern. No need to accuse them of wearing tinfoil hats.

Raymondjram
03-08-2016, 11:19 AM
Hi there, recently there have been very disturbing things in the news about OnStar, like
1. they will collect data about you including vehicle tracking -->even if you do not use the service.

2.Even if you do not use the service, by court order it can be turned on and track you.

3.I do not want someone to be able through electronic methods to disable my car.




I have a 2009 Chevy Equinox with Onstar and I will bet you $1,000 if you can prove that my vehicle is being tracked at all. I know I can win that bet because OnStar has never worked here and never will!

Dr. Manhattan
03-08-2016, 02:14 PM
When people express a distaste for these technologies that can be used for surveillance, it is tempting to write it off as paranoia. The logic is ďif you are doing nothing wrong, then the government is not interested in you and they canít possibly track 300 million people (too much data), so they are not tracking you.Ē That logic makes perfect sense to me. But the assumption is that nobody is doing anything wrong. That canít be true. If someone has something to hide, then they might have a legitimate fear that they are being tracked. Or if someone has a level of wealth or other circumstance that would make them a possible kidnapping target, or they have access to government secrets, etc. they may have legitimate security concerns that are higher than the average person. Then it is not paranoia at all. It is a valid concern. No need to accuse them of wearing tinfoil hats.I thank you for your understanding of some of the points that I'm trying to make, but I think you're still being a bit soft on the powers that be. So, "special" people (the rich, government operatives, etc.) are entitled to more privacy than the rest of us "average" citizens? What country are you living in? People...please...this is not rocket science. Either everybody has a right to their privacy, or nobody does. Any citizen should be free from having to worry about their privacy, and I'm not making any allowances for those who simply don't care, either...all of us are in the same boat. This "if you don't have anything to hide..." attitude will land us all in the frying pan at some point if we don't remain vigilant. Somebody else's definition of "something to hide" may be very different from your definition. Who gets to decide who's definition is right and who's is wrong?

We've dragged the discussion somewhat away from the OP's basic original point, which was 'How do I disconnect my OnStar?', but having said all of the above, I'm honestly not even thinking about the government when I'm wanting to disconnect my OnStar. In view of what I've said, can you imagine how I feel about General Motors knowing where I am and what I'm saying all the time? If the police, etc. want to know where I am, I have no doubt that they can find me through my phone. If GM wants to know where I am or what I'm saying, they can take a flying suck off my butt. They have no business in my business, and that's why I'm pulling fuse 23. JMO...

Barry
03-08-2016, 02:31 PM
My comments were not about who has a *right* to privacy. It is about who might care more about privacy. Everyone has the same rights. For instance, just because I carry a cell phone with location services turned on doesn't mean I do not have a right to privacy. I have the right to choose to turn it off if I want, and that is the important thing. If they locked it to my ankle, that would be a totally different situation. That would take away my right to choose. I also drive an OnStar vehicle purely by choice. If I ever think it is being used improperly, I have the right to pull the fuse or drive a different car. The option is what is important (to me). Meanwhile, I prefer the convenience of these devices to the other option of being certain that the mundane details of my suburban life are inaccessible to others. I really don't care who knows I was at x location at 2:55pm. I like knowing I could control that information if I wanted to, but I don't want to yet.

Dutch
03-08-2016, 02:46 PM
"If you don't have anything to hide then what are you worried about"

Ugh. I worked for the DOJ for many years. It doesn't matter one whittle if YOU think you aren't doing anything wrong, what matters is does the Government think you are doing something wrong, or additionally does the Government think someone you know is doing something wrong (guilt by association).

but related, thinking that you are being tracked and data-mined constantly is truth not paranoia in the US of A. I know, I (sadly) helped build and support some of the systems in question.

good2go
03-08-2016, 03:21 PM
...

thinking that you are being tracked and data-mined constantly is truth not paranoia in the US of A.

...

No question about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply ignorant.

https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

Norton
03-08-2016, 06:46 PM
No question about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply ignorant.

https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

So, what you gonna do?

Points and coil old car. (although we been told those can have an individual EMF signature...)
No cell phone.
No land line.
Use only pay phones, (Wear sunglasses and a big hat, at night, good luck finding one.)
No personal internet presence. (proxy all ta'hell, drink lots of coffee at wifi shops)

Hide, look over your shoulder, pay cash, move a lot.

Or just relax and enjoy life these glory days,, until TSHF.

good2go
03-08-2016, 08:29 PM
So, what you gonna do?

Points and coil old car. (although we been told those can have an individual EMF signature...)
No cell phone.
No land line.
Use only pay phones, (Wear sunglasses and a big hat, at night, good luck finding one.)
No personal internet presence. (proxy all ta'hell, drink lots of coffee at wifi shops)

Hide, look over your shoulder, pay cash, move a lot.

Or just relax and enjoy life these glory days,, until TSHF.

We clearly have had no choice about the government's collection of data. What's really sad though, is the utter lack of righteous indignation about it. Everyone seems so resigned to it, the attitude is "We've already lost, so why even bother caring anymore". I have nothing to hide, but I abhor the sheep mentality of everyone who accepts that there's nothing we can do about the state of things, so we might as well just quit resisting and learn to smile about it.

Besides the government, exactly when and why did any level of "piling on" by the private sector become acceptable too? In a totally hypothetical world . . . if the government sanctioned the rape of your wife or daughter by soldiers (and sure, you hated it, but could do nothing to stop it) would it also "have to" be ok with you if the owner of the neighborhood grocery store tried to have his way with them too? Obviously that is a rather hysterical and exaggerated parallel, but it speaks to the relative sliding scale and relativity of what's happening. It's like once you accept money for sex, you're a whore, it doesn't matter how much you charge.

Beyond our control, egregious things have happened to our rights, but I don't accept that it means everyone has to like it and accept similar intrusions on all fronts. Regardless of the nice little conveniences that may be tossed out to consumers (like bones), the private sectors interests in your data is purely for profit and ALWAYS primarily in THEIR best interests. Why is it so much to ask that we have a choice in the matter? It's OUR data.

Barry
03-08-2016, 10:43 PM
While I don't like commercial data gathering, I actually do like knowing that our government is collecting intelligence for the purpose of preventing terrorist attacks and other national security objectives that help me and all Americans. I would be pretty concerned if they were not doing that.

But I also think this debate has gotten pretty far off topic. It started as a question about disabling OnStar in a Volt (on-topic for this forum).

Dr. Manhattan
03-09-2016, 04:59 PM
While I don't like commercial data gathering, I actually do like knowing that our government is collecting intelligence for the purpose of preventing terrorist attacks and other national security objectives that help me and all Americans. I would be pretty concerned if they were not doing that...How did you feel about government data mining before 9/11? It probably sounded a lot less attractive before the attack. We're letting our fears (unreasoned or otherwise) get the better of us when we trade all of this personal intrusion for a false sense of security. And that's assuming that everyone who's collecting and using the data is on the up and up. No doubt some nasty plots have been foiled but, even with all of these impingements on our privacy, there will always be some lone yahoo(s) who will get through anyway. Additionally, much has been made here about why we should all throw in the towel on our privacy because "The Government" knows all about all of us through our smart phones anyway, but if the government is already so all-knowing, why do they need Apple's help to crack an iPhone's security. It may not be quite time to give up on this yet. Look, fighting for our freedoms is hard. In spite of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, it's always under attack, from without and within. That's why we have to make a stand whenever we recognize what's going on. Otherwise, we'll all wake up one morning and there'll be government cameras in every room in all of our houses...and we'll each have to try to rationalize it to ourselves by saying "I've got nothing to hide..."


...But I also think this debate has gotten pretty far off topic. It started as a question about disabling OnStar in a Volt (on-topic for this forum).I agree, but I do think his question has been answered. I'm curious to see, when I take delivery of my '17 in a couple of weeks, if there will be any negate side effects to pulling fuse 23.

Norton
03-11-2016, 08:19 AM
OK Doc,

Let's say you have a special lady friend in you life, and just once you let her borrow your Volt because Aunt Flo needs some immediate help one dark and stormy night.

So she's driving down that dark country road and a drunk crosses the center line and a head-on collision happens.
Wouldn't YOU want the authorities notified and dispatched to the exact scene almost immediately?

Or is it OK to wait for another car to drive down this dark road sometime later and find this mess, make the call and try to describe where this collision is located?

How's that for a "side effect to pulling fuse 23" ?

Now,, if it's just you and your Volt at the remote bunker,,, carry on. I see your point about security issues and Onstar.

Dutch
03-11-2016, 11:12 AM
And here we go with the straw man arguments.

Life's about choices. Make yours and accept the benefits/consequences.

WopOnTour
03-11-2016, 02:18 PM
If anyone ever attempts to test out this Fuse 23 business, you may wish to first disconnect the OnStar back-up battery.
Otherwise it will automatically be connected to the VCIM and eventually be drained requiring replacement should anyone ever wish to reinstate the system. I think most will be disappointed with the loss of functionality that comes with the elimination of the telecommunication/GPS system but hey, to each his/her own.

WOT

Qinsp
03-11-2016, 03:58 PM
IIRC, once you access the module, the antenna lead unscrews.

Sidebar - Wait until they find out their cell phone company tracks them! And their computer! And the biggest surprise is when they find out what the airbag computer stores in it.

Dutch
03-11-2016, 04:03 PM
IIRC, once you access the module, the antenna lead unscrews.

Sidebar - Wait until they find out their cell phone company tracks them! And their computer! And the biggest surprise is when they find out what the airbag computer stores in it.
And what the power company knows -just- from your electricity use, and Maker forbid they have a "smart" TV or a home security system with cameras and offsite storage, and don't even get me started on email.
(P.S. TinFoil hats for sale, cheaper in bulk! <grin>)

Upper5Percent
03-11-2016, 06:14 PM
Well, when autonomous vehicles become the only option...all of the paranoid people in the world will not be able to get around in a personal vehicle without being tracked...:rolleyes:

Barry
03-11-2016, 06:30 PM
That doesn't matter because the autonomous vehicles are going to eliminate people and run the world by themselves. That is unless they think of turning us into slaves.

good2go
03-11-2016, 08:58 PM
Characterizing anyone who cares about their civil rights as simply being paranoid is pretty much akin to characterizing everyone who isn't concerned with their civil rights as a complete imbecile, or a sheep, or maybe even the product of both. So, for all those here so blithely making comments about paranoia and tin foil hats, I say "Which one are you?"

Dutch
03-11-2016, 10:46 PM
Characterizing anyone who cares about their civil rights as simply being paranoid is pretty much akin to characterizing everyone who isn't concerned with their civil rights as a complete imbecile, or a sheep, or maybe even the product of both. So, for all those here so blithely making comments about paranoia and tin foil hats, I say "Which one are you?"

I'm the guy who helped build and maintain the goddamn systems you all think you can hide from. I will live the rest of my life with the weight of what I participated in creating. I didn't know what my "block" was helping to create but that isn't really any excuse.

I can say any damn thing I want about it all because it's TOO LATE TO HIDE and unplugging onstar or pulling the batteries from your phone aren't going to cover you, it's all tin foil hattery because people think "oh if I just pull the onstar fuse nobody can monitor me"....nope. Many, MANY other data farming paths still open and it's NOT GOING TO WORK!

I'm the third category (the one you ignore), the guy who actually knows some of the system and realized that the horses are GONE, there is no point in closing the barn door now.

There, is that enough of a rant for ya?!?

Mister Dave
03-11-2016, 11:17 PM
(P.S. TinFoil hats for sale, cheaper in bulk! <grin>)

I think we should upgrade to ponchos.....

http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/article/19689/1425666867375167.jpg


By the way, which one of you knobs dragged this out of the last year's posting bin?



At the risk of re-initiating this whole argument.......

Oh, right...... good show on that.


I went to the corner store today. Call the NSA!!! Onstar has the evidence. I'm in real trouble now!

Mountains of evidence. Who's going to sort through all of that detritus? You should be more upset about how much of your tax money is going to storing crap information.

Dutch
03-11-2016, 11:37 PM
Mountains of evidence. Who's going to sort through all of that detritus? You should be more upset about how much of your tax money is going to storing crap information.

Not who, what. That's the common argument, "there aren't enough people to monitor all of that", which is true, but there are more than enough machines.

But hey, no need to believe me. I'm out of this discussion.

Upper5Percent
03-11-2016, 11:40 PM
I think we should upgrade to ponchos.....

http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/article/19689/1425666867375167.jpg


By the way, which one of you knobs dragged this out of the last year's posting bin?



Oh, right...... good show on that.


I went to the corner store today. Call the NSA!!! Onstar has the evidence. I'm in real trouble now!

Mountains of evidence. Who's going to sort through all of that detritus? You should be more upset about how much of your tax money is going to storing crap information.

Now this thread and everyone on it will be tracked for sure...:)

The basic list of key words...

Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
Coast Guard (USCG)
Customs and Border Protection (CBP)
Border Patrol
Secret Service (USSS)
National Operations Center (NOC)
Homeland Defense
Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE)
Agent
Task Force
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
Fusion Center
Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA)
Secure Border Initiative (SBI)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF)
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS)
Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS)
Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
Air Marshal
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
National Guard
Red Cross
United Nations (UN)
Assassination
Attack
Domestic security
Drill
Exercise
Cops
Law enforcement
Authorities
Disaster assistance
Disaster management
DNDO (Domestic Nuclear Detection Office)
National preparedness
Mitigation
Prevention
Response
Recovery
Dirty bomb
Domestic nuclear detection
Emergency management
Emergency response
First responder
Homeland security
Maritime domain awareness (MDA)
National preparedness initiative
Militia Shooting
Shots fired
Evacuation
Deaths
Hostage
Explosion (explosive)
Police
Disaster medical assistance team (DMAT)
Organized crime
Gangs
National security
State of emergency
Security
Breach
Threat
Standoff
SWAT
Screening
Lockdown
Bomb (squad or threat)
Crash
Looting
Riot
Emergency
Landing
Pipe bomb
Incident
Facility
Hazmat
Nuclear
Chemical spill
Suspicious package/device
Toxic
National laboratory
Nuclear facility
Nuclear threat
Cloud
Plume
Radiation
Radioactive
Leak
Biological infection (or event)
Chemical
Chemical burn
Biological
Epidemic
Hazardous
Hazardous material incident
Industrial spill
Infection
Powder (white)
Gas
Spillover
Anthrax
Blister agent
Chemical agent
Exposure
Burn
Nerve agent
Ricin
Sarin
North Korea
Outbreak
Contamination
Exposure
Virus
Evacuation
Bacteria
Recall
Ebola
Food Poisoning
Foot and Mouth (FMD)
H5N1
Avian
Flu
Salmonella
Small Pox
Plague
Human to human
Human to Animal
Influenza
Center for Disease Control (CDC)
Drug Administration (FDA)
Public Health
Toxic Agro
Terror Tuberculosis (TB)
Agriculture
Listeria
Symptoms
Mutation
Resistant
Antiviral
Wave
Pandemic
Infection
Water/air borne
Sick
Swine
Pork
Strain
Quarantine
H1N1
Vaccine
Tamiflu
Norvo Virus
Epidemic
World Health Organization (WHO) (and components)
Viral Hemorrhagic Fever
E. Coli
Infrastructure security
Airport
CIKR (Critical Infrastructure & Key Resources)
AMTRAK
Collapse
Computer infrastructure
Communications infrastructure
Telecommunications
Critical infrastructure
National infrastructure
Metro
WMATA
Airplane (and derivatives)
Chemical fire
Subway
BART
MARTA
Port Authority
NBIC (National Biosurveillance Integration Center)
Transportation security
Grid
Power
Smart
Body scanner
Electric
Failure or outage
Black out
Brown out
Port
Dock
Bridge
Cancelled
Delays
Service disruption
Power lines
Drug cartel
Violence
Gang
Drug
Narcotics
Cocaine
Marijuana
Heroin
Border
Mexico
Cartel
Southwest
Juarez
Sinaloa
Tijuana
Torreon
Yuma
Tucson
Decapitated
U.S. Consulate
Consular
El Paso
Fort Hancock
San Diego
Ciudad Juarez
Nogales
Sonora
Colombia
Mara salvatrucha
MS13 or MS-13
Drug war
Mexican army
Methamphetamine
Cartel de Golfo
Gulf Cartel
La Familia
Reynosa
Nuevo Leon
Narcos
Narco banners (Spanish equivalents)
Los Zetas
Shootout
Execution
Gunfight
Trafficking
Kidnap
Calderon
Reyosa
Bust
Tamaulipas
Meth Lab
Drug trade
Illegal immigrants
Smuggling (smugglers)
Matamoros
Michoacana
Guzman
Arellano-Felix
Beltran-Leyva
Barrio Azteca
Artistic Assassins
Mexicles
New Federation
Terrorism
Al Qaeda (all spellings)
Terror
Attack
Iraq
Afghanistan
Iran
Pakistan
Agro
Environmental terrorist
Eco terrorism
Conventional weapon
Target
Weapons grade
Dirty bomb
Enriched
Nuclear
Chemical weapon
Biological weapon
Ammonium nitrate
Improvised explosive device
IED (Improvised Explosive Device)
Abu Sayyaf
Hamas
FARC (Armed Revolutionary Forces Colombia)
IRA (Irish Republican Army)
ETA (Euskadi ta Askatasuna)
Basque Separatists
Hezbollah
Tamil Tigers
PLF (Palestine Liberation Front)
PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization
Car bomb
Jihad
Taliban
Weapons cache
Suicide bomber
Suicide attack
Suspicious substance
AQAP (AL Qaeda Arabian Peninsula)
AQIM (Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb)
TTP (Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan)
Yemen
Pirates
Extremism
Somalia
Nigeria
Radicals
Al-Shabaab
Home grown
Plot
Nationalist
Recruitment
Fundamentalism
Islamist
Emergency
Hurricane
Tornado
Twister
Tsunami
Earthquake
Tremor
Flood
Storm
Crest
Temblor
Extreme weather
Forest fire
Brush fire
Ice
Stranded/Stuck
Help
Hail
Wildfire
Tsunami Warning Center
Magnitude
Avalanche
Typhoon
Shelter-in-place
Disaster
Snow
Blizzard
Sleet
Mud slide or Mudslide
Erosion
Power outage
Brown out
Warning
Watch
Lightening
Aid
Relief
Closure
Interstate
Burst
Emergency Broadcast System
Cyber security
Botnet
DDOS (dedicated denial of service)
Denial of service
Malware
Virus
Trojan
Keylogger
Cyber Command
2600
Spammer
Phishing
Rootkit
Phreaking
Cain and abel
Brute forcing
Mysql injection
Cyber attack
Cyber terror
Hacker
China
Conficker
Worm
Scammers
Social media

Qinsp
03-12-2016, 12:25 AM
Characterizing anyone who cares about their civil rights as simply being paranoid is pretty much akin to characterizing everyone who isn't concerned with their civil rights as a complete imbecile, or a sheep, or maybe even the product of both. So, for all those here so blithely making comments about paranoia and tin foil hats, I say "Which one are you?"

With General Motors as the current whipping boy of the Tort Lawyers Association, who can be sued for billions by putting the same damn key ignition or gas tanks in their cars that people have been using for 100 years, I really doubt that OnStar is a serious threat. Too deep of pockets to risk the minor rewards of data mining their cars. OnStar wouldn't even have to do anything wrong to be sued, and it would cripple GM.

It's not like they are Apple or Microsoft, who do some fairly crappy things and get away with it without bloodshed.

The serious threat as far as car security goes is the black box in your airbags, and other future government mandates. If your car does spy on you more, it will be by law, not brand.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-technology/car-black-box-recorders-capture-crash-data.html

Soon the government will require cars to transmit telemetry data to other cars and a central hub. They need all cars to have telemetry before they can pass a law that forces collection of the data for law enforcement. The first thing you will see is "tickets by mail". Your new car will send data to law enforcement to issue citations. Science fiction? Well that existing black box in all cars has caused people to be prosecuted for driving offenses ever since about 2000? if I remember correctly. A court order back then was upheld and required a manufacturer to read the black box to determine guilt in an accident.

To the best of my knowledge, OnStar has only been used to catch car thieves, not to ever prosecute the owner of the car. That's what the black box is used for.

good2go
03-12-2016, 01:13 AM
Just to be clear, I have not, nor do I intend to eradicate OnStar from the Volt. I am not the least paranoid, nor do I wear foil in any form of outerwear (i.e. undies are still fair game), but that does not mean I accept the "all is lost, so why resist further" notion. For God's sake, as a matter of propriety if nothing else! As such, I appreciate those who share the indignation of the loss we have ALL suffered, and I certainly don't think that it constitutes declaring them nuts.

For those that are clueless to what's happened, maybe ignorance is bliss, and for those that do have an inkling, but choose to throw in the towel without so much as a protest- shame on you, and for those that are completely aware because they actually did it, how do you live with yourself** ? . . . and how could you wish the coming world on your children?


** Edit: I apologize, in retrospect, this is overly harsh for those who may have been a "pawn in the machine". I guess it was intended for those who you would call the designers.

Qinsp
03-12-2016, 01:35 AM
Just to be clear, I have not, nor do I intend to eradicate OnStar from the Volt. I am not the least paranoid, nor do I wear foil in any form of outerwear (i.e. undies are still fair game), but that does not mean I accept the "all is lost, so why resist further" notion. For God's sake, as a matter of propriety if nothing else! As such, I appreciate those who share the indignation of the loss we have ALL suffered, and I certainly don't think that it constitutes declaring them nuts.

For those that are clueless to what's happened, maybe ignorance is bliss, and for those that do have an inkling, but choose to throw in the towel without so much as a protest- shame on you, and for those that are completely aware because they actually did it, how do you live with yourself? . . . and how could you wish the coming world on your children?

OnStar and Children. Right now, I know where my 17 year old daughter's car is at, thanks to OnStar. I know if she's in an accident, help will arrive no matter what her condition is. I know if she loses her cellphone, she can make a phone call from the car without it. I know that if she is lost, or needs any other help, OnStar will be there.

It's one of the reasons I buy Chevrolets for my kids.

I fear her internet use and cell phone far more than OnStar harming her.

OnStar is a bogeyman because it's from GM. If it was in BMW's it would be the most important technology ever put in a car.

good2go
03-12-2016, 02:35 AM
...

OnStar is a bogeyman because it's from GM. If it was in BMW's it would be the most important technology ever put in a car.

I'm probably guilty of sending the wrong message since this is all happening in the context of an OnStar thread and my comments have been intended for a broader context. Personally, I do not see OnStar as any better or worse than any number of companies that harvest our info. As for BMWs, I have been there, learned that lesson, and can assure you they hold no appeal, OnStar or not.

Dr. Manhattan
03-12-2016, 04:01 AM
Doc, I don't know if there are deer where you are, but I took my deer recently, with my Ducati. It was a draw between the two.
I was at work a few hours late, hurtin fer surtin.... They are a big problem here...I live on the shore of Lake Michigan and regularly have deer in my yard. When we were setting up our Christmas tree last December, there was a doe watching us through our living room window while she was munching on berries from a bush that's against the house, right outside the window. There are usually deer all over our area, and we have to be careful when driving our car or riding our motorcycle, especially around dawn and dusk. And guess what? I still think GM is full of poo. I have no problem using my bike, even though it's not equipped with OnStar. I just stay alert and somehow manage to live with the terrifying uncertainty. :rolleyes: YMMV...




We clearly have had no choice about the government's collection of data...I disagree. Though, as long as we keep voting for people who think the "Patriot" Act is a good idea, we deserve whatever they do to us in the name of national security.




And here we go with the straw man arguments.

Life's about choices. Make yours and accept the benefits/consequences.Really. As I said earlier, it's equally possible for any of us to be hit by a falling meteor...but how many of us are buying armored cars? I'm sure GM would love to sell them to us! That'll be the next wave of their commercials: "Joe and his family were out on a quiet Sunday drive when, suddenly, a meteor crashed through the roof of their puny car!. If only they'd been driving a GMC 4500 Armored Car..."




That doesn't matter because the autonomous vehicles are going to eliminate people and run the world by themselves. That is unless they think of turning us into slaves.The Terminator!! Fortunately, I'll be done driving in, oh, 30 years or so, and won't have to witness widespread use of autonomous cars. I know everyone thinks they're just around the corner, but our legal system will probably keep them from going mainstream for the foreseeable future.




...By the way, which one of you knobs dragged this out of the last year's posting bin?...Mea culpa. I honestly hoped that I could just get away with pointing out the gen2 fuse 23 deal, but down deep, I feared the worst. That fear was well founded...




...OnStar is a bogeyman because it's from GM. If it was in BMW's it would be the most important technology ever put in a car.I don't care who it's from, I don't want it. If I've given the impression that I have something fundamental against GM, let me correct that impression. As car companies go, I rate them near the top. I just disapprove of their craven tactic of fear mongering in order to sell us technology that is, potentially and equally, both useful and invasive.

As an aside, aren't there other automakers that are licensing OnStar tech from GM? Actually, I thought BMW was one of them...

Qinsp
03-12-2016, 11:01 AM
OnStar might have licensed patents to other brands, but the name OnStar is specific to GM products. IIRC, our first OnStar vehicle was 2004, and it was an option. Then they changed the broadcast technology, and I had to take the vehicle in for new hardware. I know our 2002 GM's did not have it.

If other brands are using similar technology, I'd fear them more than OnStar. 12 years with no indications of misuse by OnStar beats any other brand.

It's funny that I get junk calls on my cellphone but not OnStar. I don't give out my cellphone number. I log under 20 minutes a month, it's only for emergencies. Somebody is giving out my cellphone number, and it's not me.

The OnStar Sucks rumors have been going on since it was first released. You'd think if there were substance to them, somebody would have proof by now. 12 years in technology is a long time. To put it in perspective, the iPhone is at least 3 years newer, and there has been cases where Apple and their registered developers were caught misusing data for marketing. And remember they forced you into ATT to get kickbacks on each phone.

If OnStar is perceived to be a privacy threat requires one to assume they are violating your privacy. There are no indications of that. It's not a generic data vending machine. They offer subscriptions for phone and navigation, but aren't splashing the latest Music Promotion into your car. They could, and it would boost profits, but they choose not to.

IIRC, the government is aiming at mandatory broadcast telemetry in cars by 2021? It's still in flux, but it's coming. That I would worry about since it's the NHTSA pushing it. They are some serious big brothers working there and share data with other federal agencies freely. They will first claim it's to collect data to make cars safer, and it will progress from there.

Mister Dave
03-12-2016, 11:06 AM
Not who, what. That's the common argument, "there aren't enough people to monitor all of that", which is true, but there are more than enough machines.

But hey, no need to believe me. I'm out of this discussion.

Machines don't raid your house with a SWAT team. At least, not yet. ;)



Mea culpa. I honestly hoped that I could just get away with pointing out the gen2 fuse 23 deal, but down deep, I feared the worst. That fear was well founded...


Mmmm hmmm. :rolleyes:

Edit:


Now this thread and everyone on it will be tracked for sure...:)

The basic list of key words...

...........
SWAT
..........

Ooops, I just said SWAT! :D

Norton
03-12-2016, 11:18 AM
.... I just disapprove of their craven tactic of fear mongering in order to sell us technology that is, potentially and equally, both useful and invasive.......

Doc,
I guess I miss out on any Onstar advertising, as I don't watch commercials, (except for the Superball !),
but the way you describe them, they sound horrible. :eek::mad::p Thanks for the warning!

As a Chevy BEV owner, I guess I just enjoy using Onstar services daily for its usefulness,
and of course the safety services wil be nice if the Big One happens.

Doc, I guess you have zero fear of the Big One. Good for you, tough guy!

But I think your use of the word "INVASIVE" is the key to your position.
Would you kindly tell us all: How has Onstar has been invasive in your life next to the Big Lake?

Thanks, N

ps. I love and hate deer.
Hate them lurking in the ditches. You can't see them until they pop out in front of you.
Love them in my back yard. In fact I'm off to the feed store to buy another 50 lb sack'o Deer Corn. Yummy !! On free electrons. ~60 mile RT.
I want to pet them some day like a horse.

Norton
03-12-2016, 11:44 AM
>....The OnStar Sucks rumors have been going on since it was first released. You'd think if there were substance to them, somebody would have proof by now.

>>...IIRC, the government is aiming at mandatory broadcast telemetry in cars by 2021? ....

>I was wondering where all this started and came from. Did Rushorielity talk about how bad it was, and that settled it for many?

>>This would be similar to the ADS-B 2020 mandate for aircraft.
All in the name of making the airspace a safer place to operate. This is keeping me busy at work. Do some people not like safety?

Guess who is saying now that they won't be ready by 2020? The military. They are asking for an extension.
They "don't have enough money or time to install this system." Right, like the military budget is not big enough now.
Just buy the hardware, hire the people and make it happen. We need safety. Not brand new shiny nuclear bombs.

ps, we're all on a watch list now,, sorry everyone.....

Upper5Percent
03-12-2016, 08:45 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/i_know_youre_listening.png

Dakster
03-12-2016, 09:03 PM
OnStar and Children. Right now, I know where my 17 year old daughter's car is at, thanks to OnStar. I know if she's in an accident, help will arrive no matter what her condition is. I know if she loses her cellphone, she can make a phone call from the car without it. I know that if she is lost, or needs any other help, OnStar will be there.

It's one of the reasons I buy Chevrolets for my kids.

I fear her internet use and cell phone far more than OnStar harming her.

OnStar is a bogeyman because it's from GM. If it was in BMW's it would be the most important technology ever put in a car.

Other companies have their own version of onstar... Personally your cell phone is way worse about 'spying' on you than OnStar... I like OnStar for the same reasons you do. And you can even be selfish about it and say, I like it because if I was alone and had an accident emergency responders could find me.

Norton
03-12-2016, 09:35 PM
.... you can even be selfish about it and say, I like it because if I was alone and had an accident emergency responders could find me.

"Selfish" !?! SAY WHAT?? Nanny state... Thanks Obama..... Real 'Tough Guys' die in a ditch. That's the way it has always has been.

Upper5Percent
03-12-2016, 10:35 PM
Other companies have their own version of onstar... Personally your cell phone is way worse about 'spying' on you than OnStar... I like OnStar for the same reasons you do. And you can even be selfish about it and say, I like it because if I was alone and had an accident emergency responders could find me.


"Selfish" !?! SAY WHAT?? Nanny state... Thanks Obama..... Real 'Tough Guys' die in a ditch. That's the way it has always has been.

A NO ONSTAR incident...

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/aug/19/news/mn-7138

Feisty Grandma, 83, Is True Survivor
Ordeal: She tells of screaming and cursing and praying while trapped in her car for days. Police seek the person who caused the accident.
August 19, 2000|MIKE CLARY | TIMES STAFF WRITER
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MIAMI — Who nearly killed Tillie Tooter? That's the question state police officials sought to answer as they hunted Friday for the driver who rear-ended the 83-year-old grandmother, sending her car somersaulting over a highway guardrail and into a swampy ravine.

There, pinned in the wreckage and hidden from passers-by, the feisty Tooter spent three days--catching rainwater to stay alive and preparing, finally, to face death.

"I screamed and I blew my horn and I did everything that I possibly could to attract attention," she said Friday from the hospital where she is being treated for minor injuries. "I prayed, I screamed, I raged, I cursed, waiting to get a little help, hoping somebody would hear me screaming."

Ultimately, Tooter said, "I made my peace with God"--and wrote a farewell note to her granddaughter, Lori Simms. "You feel like there's nothing left for you in the world," she said, near tears. "I made my peace . . . and told myself I was dying."


But Tooter was spared on Tuesday when a teenager picking up litter along the roadside spotted her car lodged in a thicket of mangrove trees about 40 feet beneath an interstate overpass. She had left her home in a Pembroke Pines retirement village just before 3 a.m. Saturday for the 15-mile drive to Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport to pick up Simms and her boyfriend, who were flying in from New Jersey.

When Tooter did not arrive, Simms reported her missing, and police launched a search.

But for three days, Tooter lay trapped in her mangled car, not seriously injured but unable to crawl out. "It was quite maddening," she said of her frustration and the waves of hunger and stinging insects that tormented her. "It was painful. I was bitten all over my body."

For nourishment, Tooter said, she had one cough drop, one piece of peppermint candy and a stick of gum--which she broke into pieces and rationed. "And when I ran out of the few things I had, I sucked on a button to produce saliva in my mouth," the retired bookkeeper explained. "I had heard that many years ago."

To collect rainwater, Tooter stuck a steering wheel cover out the window. She sopped up the water with a pair of golf socks that she kept over the gear-shift knob, and then she sucked on the socks.

To pass the time, the red-haired grandmother said she belted out musical Golden Oldies. "I sang songs from the '40s and '50s, the good ones," she said.

After two days, with hopes fading, Tooter said she also tried mental telepathy to contact her daughter and a sister in California. "I have this connection with my sister. I was saying, 'Think, concentrate, come back, come here,' " Tooter said. "I knew they were looking for me.

"But my biggest regret was that I could not see my family again," she said.

Tooter was hauled up from the ravine by Fort Lauderdale fire rescue emergency teams using a basket and a crane.

Also pulled from the swamp was her totaled Toyota, which police said showed signs of having been hit from behind.

Florida Highway Patrol officers said they planned to question a 21-year-old Hollywood, Fla., man who reported that he had smashed into the retaining wall about the same time that Tooter's car plunged into the ravine. A black Camaro with extensive front-end damage was found on the highway about a mile from where Tooter's car left the road. It has been impounded.

Tooter is expected to be released within a day or two from Broward General Medical Center, where she was being treated for dehydration, insect bites and facial bruises.

She will then return to her home and neighbors at Century Village, where she is known as "a wonderful, gutsy person," according to close friend Charlotte Zusmer, 79.


And Tooter has no plans to quit driving, especially after being given a new $16,500 Toyota by a Deerfield Beach distributorship.

"I am a survivor," Tooter said Friday. "I have been fighting for 83 years. I come from Brooklyn, N.Y. And if you don't learn to survive there, you are not going to make it anyplace."