Jun 14

Chevrolet Adds 130 New Bolt EVs to its Self-Driving Fleet

 

By Stephen Elmer

Chevy has prepared an entire fleet of self-driving Bolt EVs, showing that mass production is possible with this type of sophisticated technology.

Chevy has built 130 Bolt EVs outfit with a full suite of self-driving hardware and software, showing that it can include this type of technology in its mass-production process. These new vehicles will join the already operating test fleets in San Francisco, Scottsdale, Arizona, and Detroit.


“This production milestone brings us one step closer to making our vision of personal mobility a reality,” said GM Chairman and CEO Mary Barra. “Expansion of our real-world test fleet will help ensure that our self-driving vehicles meet the same strict standards for safety and quality that we build into all of our vehicles.”

To make self-driving possible, each Bolt is fit with LIDAR, cameras, and sensors that can read the world around them. Back in January, Chevy claims it became the first automaker to use an assembly line process to build self-driving vehicles.

“To achieve what we want from self-driving cars, we must deploy them at scale,” said Cruise Automation CEO Kyle Vogt.

This article originally appeared at AutoGuide.com

Barra Post

The source of the images and news above is a post from GM CEO Mary Barra. Here is the article from LinkedIn.

Six months ago, we announced that GM would build its next-generation autonomous test vehicles at our Orion Assembly Plant in Michigan. Production of those vehicles began in January, making GM the first and – to this day – the only automotive company to assemble self-driving vehicles in a mass-production facility. This means we have the unique and necessary combination of technology, engineering and manufacturing ability to build autonomous vehicles at scale.

To date, we have completed production of 130 Chevrolet Bolt EVs equipped with our next generation self-driving technology. These vehicles will soon join the more-than-50 first-generation self-driving Bolt EVs we have already deployed in test fleets in San Francisco, Scottsdale, and Southeast Michigan.

New technologies and changing customer needs are helping us transform personal mobility and deliver transportation solutions that are safer, more sustainable and better than ever. We believe one of the best ways to deliver these solutions is through greater access to self-driving electric vehicles deployed in sharing networks.

To get to this future, we are pursuing both an evolutionary path – with technologies such as automatic emergency braking and Super Cruise – and a revolutionary path, and the clearest evidence are our Michigan-built self-driving Bolt EV test vehicles.

Last year, GM acquired Cruise Automation. Cruise is a leading Silicon Valley startup that specializes in developing the software that drives our autonomous vehicles. Cruise is moving fast, operating within GM like the startup company it is.

The array of equipment that Cruise uses on the Bolt EV – the LIDAR, cameras, sensors and other hardware – represents a substantial leap forward in autonomous technology and capability. It will provide GM engineers with more data and faster processing speeds to adapt and problem solve in real time.

Our approach over the last year has been to test in challenging, urban, real-world driving environments. These next-generation vehicles will allow us to increase that testing and really accelerate our development of safe, reliable, fully autonomous vehicles.

At GM, our highest priority is always safety, and of course that priority extends to our development and testing of these autonomous vehicles.

The expansion of our real-world test fleet will help ensure that our self-driving vehicles meet the same strict standards for safety and quality that we build into all our vehicles. This is vitally important, because we believe that autonomous vehicles will provide great benefits to society in terms of safety, convenience and quality of life.

The National Safety Council estimates as many as 40,000 people died in motor vehicles crashes in the U.S. last year, a six percent increase over 2015. We also know that more than 90 percent of crashes are attributable to human error, and that is something that autonomous vehicles have the potential to eliminate.

At the end of the day, we believe the societal benefits and business opportunities of autonomous vehicles will be significant… and we intend for GM to be a leader in their development and deployment. Today’s production milestone brings us one step closer to making our vision of personal mobility a reality.

If you’re interested in joining our autonomous technology team, please visit here.

This entry was posted on Wednesday, June 14th, 2017 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

COMMENTS: 59


  1. 1
    don shaw

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (6:55 am)

    I want one. Good job, GM

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  2. 2
    Tim Hart

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (7:20 am)

    I want one too. Hope I’m around long enough to actually own one!

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  3. 3
    American First

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (7:53 am)

    Ford built twenty new Fusion Hybrids as autonomy test vehicles, not in the main plant in Mexico but at a special plant in Michigan. And the LIDAR units (by Ford-purchased Velodyne) are mounted as if they were new external mirrors on the “A” pillars, so the Fusions look more normal than the Chevy Bolt EVs. The cameras are integrated into the roof rails.
    1482893191152.jpg

    Here are articles showing then:
    https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/12/28/ford-debuts-next-generation-fusion-hybrid-autonomous-development.html
    https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/06/up-close-with-fords-new-autonomous-development-fusion-hybrid-car/
    https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/28/14100278/ford-new-self-driving-car-fusion-hybrid-testing
    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ford-to-reveal-new-fusion-hybrid-autonomous-development-vehicle-at-ces/

    Ford has a six month head start on GM and Chevy, but I prefer an American brand autonomous vehicle. I wish the SAE can help standardize all the autonomy specifications, so we can buy and drive any one and all react the same.

    Edit: Velodyne sells its LIDAR “Pucks” so if someone wants to convert their Ev into an autonomous EV, you can buy them:
    http://velodynelidar.com/vlp-16-hi-res.html
    You have to add your choice of computers and software.

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  4. 4
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (7:55 am)

    Please read my entire post before voting. Thanks.
    Once you get in one and it locks you in, you’ll never fully trust it.
    I wouldn’t!

    Autonomy is being confused as innocuous as a Christmas toy, and the masses and forces of insufficiently-controllable and adaptable conditions of them will have them as terror traps in death trajectories.

    Once you get seduced to getting sucked into this level of arrogance, you will be carted around in a “fools bubble”, for all the world to see a new “nanny-class” of technological dependency.

    Now, wrong comparisons of planes kept separated by “people in control towers” who are in control, not hundreds of cars, trucks, and semi’s driving inches apart from one another are to follow.

    Keeping distractions out of the cockpit is actually the law.
    There are 56 hard snd soft buttons in Volt’s center stack, which are ergonomically a distraction.
    Many layers of changing submenus in electronics are a distraction, yet Google has this guy from northwestern Europe, who, clearly under the influence, is bragging how he wants to send his 6 year old off to school in his autonomy vehicle by himself.
    What kind of drunk is in such disregard of his son’s safety to have Google fund him so financially-arrogantly to a freaking drunk who’s motivated to get out on the roads, endangering you and me, and telling Google to shut down two of our systems off the net.
    Google is evil in this regard.

    Apple does not permit this type of evil, which is why this post and my last post regarding “Who killed the electric car”? got through to you, and got the highest score I’d ever achieved.

    Here in my classes, we ***MUST*** warrant, garrantee, and completely assure that all vehicles and all systems leave each shop in perfect safety. This is not possible unless there is tactile, auditory, and sensory feedback to a expert ly trained human, as electronics ***can never ever be designed with enough real time sensory feedback to act safely. So, you life and mine are placed in arrogant jeopardy. Our Newprocess Analytics can prove sensory impairment in seconds!!! PROVE to the exact PROPORTIONING within EACH circuit.

    I have a moral obligation to advise this.

    Autonomy is evil, ready for the next disaster.

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  5. 5
    American First

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (8:17 am)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College,

    I wonder why you would not trust self driving vehicles. We have Autopilot in planes for years, and they work with great efficiency. The key is good sensors and software. We drive with our limited organic based optical sensors and even limited audio sensors for over a century, but these new electronic devices are far more sensitive. The computers are dedicated and react quicker than our brains which slow down and degrade with age.

    You can test some of their features now, such as the lane avoidance and automatic emergency braking in modern cars. I have test driven Ford’s “Park Assist” and I like it! There is a beautiful ad where an older man is in a Focus and using it, smiling all the time, and laughing when the Focus completed the self parking. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXlaedhOSWQ

    So as we grow older, we need more support from our vehicles than before, and any device that simplifies my driving is welcomed. The final test is a circuit race where all the cars are autonomous, and see how they avoid each other and finish the race. It may be quite boring!

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  6. 6
    bro1999

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (8:21 am)

    American First:
    Ford built twenty new Fusion Hybrids as autonomy test vehicles, not in the main plant in Mexico but at a special plant in Michigan. And the LIDAR units (by Ford-purchased Velodyne) are mounted as if they were new external mirrors on the “A” pillars, so the Fusions look more normal than the Chevy Bolt EVs. The cameras are integrated into the roof rails.

    Here arearticles showing then:
    https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/12/28/ford-debuts-next-generation-fusion-hybrid-autonomous-development.html
    https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/06/up-close-with-fords-new-autonomous-development-fusion-hybrid-car/
    https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/28/14100278/ford-new-self-driving-car-fusion-hybrid-testing
    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ford-to-reveal-new-fusion-hybrid-autonomous-development-vehicle-at-ces/

    Ford has a six month head start on GM and Chevy, but I prefer an American brand autonomous vehicle. I wish the SAE can help standardize all the autonomy specifications, so we can buy and drive any one and all react the same.

    Edit: Velodyne sells its LIDAR “Pucks” so if someone wants to convert their Ev into an autonomous EV, you can buy them:
    http://velodynelidar.com/vlp-16-hi-res.html
    You have to add your choice of computers and software.

    Let me know when Ford builds a BEV designed and developed in house, mkay?

    And despite “Ford’s 6 month head start”, they logged only 590 miles from 2 Fusion AV test vehicles in 2016 in CA.

    Compare that to GM, which logged over 9,700 miles from 20 Bolt AVs…along with 5 Nissan Leafs, interesting enough.

    Ford sure is taking advantage of that “6 month head start”.

    https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/autonomous/disengagement_report_2016

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  7. 7
    American First

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (8:28 am)

    bro1999: Let me know when Ford builds a BEV designed and developed in house, mkay?

    The Focus Electric, on sale since 2011:
    http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/2017/models/focus-electric/
    http://www.plugincars.com/ford-focus-electric

    Either you have a very limited memory or you ignore anything made by Ford. The Ford Focus Electric was awarded the 2011 Green Car Vision Award at the 2011 Washington Auto Show. The 2012 Focus Electric was selected among the five finalists for the 2012 Green Car of the Year awarded by the Green Car Journal in November 2011 at the Los Angeles Auto Show.

    In March 2012, the U.S. EPA ranked the Focus Electric as the 2012 most fuel-efficient car sold in the United States in the compact class. That is one the Chevy Volt didn’t win.

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  8. 8
    Steverino

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (8:38 am)

    GM is making progress and seems to be in the lead with a mass-producible EV AV. But it’s early days. Still congrats to their team. If this was Tesla, the stock would be going up, lol. Since it’s GM, the stock will stay flat. 🙁

    I see the new roof units have a much lower “police lightbar” profile than the one Mary is standing in front of and expect these to get slimmer over time. The front fender side-mounted sensors look ripe for damaging encounters with objects or kids with baseball bats.

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  9. 9
    American First

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (8:40 am)

    bro1999: Let me know when Ford builds a BEV designed and developed in house, mkay?

    And despite “Ford’s 6 month head start”, they logged only 590 miles from 2 Fusion AV test vehicles in 2016 in CA.

    Compare that to GM, which logged over 9,700 miles from 20 Bolt AVs…along with 5 Nissan Leafs, interesting enough.

    Ford sure is taking advantage of that “6 month head start”.

    https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/autonomous/disengagement_report_2016

    You also missed that Ford has been testing autonomous Fusions for many years before GM did.
    https://www.wired.com/2017/04/detroit-stomping-silicon-valley-self-driving-car-race/
    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2017/04/04/ford-fully-autonomous-vehicles/100017088/

    Don’t downgrade what Ford has done or doing, because it is an American brand, too. I like both GM and Ford, but for now I have a Fusion Hybrid. If I could I would buy a Bolt EV.

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  10. 10
    Loboc

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (8:41 am)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College,

    Nobody is forcing people to use Robo-cars. Yet.

    For someone that trains technicians on technical repairs this mantra is surprising.

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  11. 11
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (8:58 am)

    Time expired above.
    The traffic densities and speeds and congestion make autonomy risk prohibitive.

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  12. 12
    bro1999

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (9:05 am)

    American First: The Focus Electric, on sale since 2011:
    http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/2017/models/focus-electric/
    http://www.plugincars.com/ford-focus-electric

    Either you have a very limited memory or you ignore anything made by Ford. The Ford Focus Electric was awarded the 2011 Green Car Vision Award at the 2011 Washington Auto Show. The 2012 Focus Electric was selected among the five finalists for the 2012 Green Car of the Year awarded by the Green Car Journal in November 2011 at the Los Angeles Auto Show.

    In March 2012, the U.S. EPA ranked the Focus Electric as the 2012 most fuel-efficient car sold in the United States in the compact class. That is one the Chevy Volt didn’t win.

    WRONG. Ford had nothing to do with the birth of the Focus Electric. One of its suppliers, Magna, actually build a prototype Focus Electric, showed it off to Ford brass, which were impressed, and Ford then decided to bring the Focus Electric to production. A supplier did all of the hard legwork; Ford just greenlighted it.
    “Ford is preparing to sell an electric car developed almost entirely by an outside supplier. ”
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/20/autos/ford_electric/index.htm

    Nice try distorting the facts though.

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  13. 13
    Tom

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (9:17 am)

    I don’t want one I love too drive and really don’t like being a passenger.
    Tom

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  14. 14
    Mark Z

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (9:42 am)

    The second version of Tesla Autopilot (AP2) is not at a software level to instill confidence. It’s taking longer than expected for features to be included.

    For GM to attach a fully tested, fully functional and proven system onto their vehicles could be the answer. Ideally these systems must be coordinated to work together.

    If you need autonomy in your daily drive today, may I suggest using a proven, safe and inexpensive alternative. Enjoy riding the city bus. Those highly trained and experienced professional drivers will make your commute seem fully automated when you use the Transit app: https://transitapp.com

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  15. 15
    Streetlight

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (12:29 pm)

    American First: Ford has a six month head start on GM and Chevy, but I prefer an American brand autonomous vehicle. I wish the SAE can help standardize all the autonomy specifications, so we can buy and drive any one and all react the same.

    From what I can tell right now GM’s taken the lead from Google. But still playing insofar as in-production units, catch up with TESLA. FORD…a ways to go.

    Your wish about SAE…AV’s command priority attention. Starting with definitions SAE J3016. Which have been pretty much adopted by DOT, the auto makers and equally important California
    (See Testing of Autonomous Vehicles Cal Regs: Title 13, Division 1, Chapter 1 Article 3.7 at Section 227.02 (b)(2)) Got that…

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  16. 16
    American First

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (12:36 pm)

    bro1999

    Nice try distorting the facts though.

    I just posted the truth. Your anger against Ford is troubling. Were you hit by a Ford vehicle as a child?

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  17. 17
    Mark Z

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (1:34 pm)

    Every Ford my parents purchased ended up being a bit of a clunker. One got a lemon refund.

    Their GM vehicles were a cut above the competition. One exception was a 1973 El Camino that gave good service with loose interior plastic parts.

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  18. 18
    Loboc

     

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (1:35 pm)

    Tom:
    I don’t want one I love too drive and really don’t like being a passenger.
    Tom

    I happen to like being chauffered. Especially by an attentive non-chit-chat robot. (Unlike Dan who thinks ‘they’ are out to kill us all.)

    That mind-numbing two hours per day could be productive instead of a total waste of time.

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  19. 19
    Loboc

     

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (1:38 pm)

    Mark Z: Enjoy riding the city bus.

    Riding a bus/train from the suburbs in DFW to beyond the airport to get to work takes 3 hours each way. Plus, you gotta drive to the train depot anyway.

    My ELR is a whole lot faster.

    Mark Z: The second version of Tesla Autopilot (AP2) is not at a software level to instill confidence. It’s taking longer than expected for features to be included.

    For GM to attach a fully tested, fully functional and proven system onto their vehicles could be the answer. Ideally these systems must be coordinated to work together.

    And this is the difference between an incremental approach from level 0 to level 5 against an integrated development approach. GM is going directly to level 4. TSLA is stuck at level 3.

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    bro1999

     

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (1:56 pm)

    American First: I just posted the truth. Your anger against Ford is troubling. Were you hit by a Ford vehicle as a child?

    Truth is Ford didn’t develop the Focus Electric. Wrap that one around your tiny head that was probably dropped on some concrete when you were a baby.

    And I drove a Ford product (C-Max Energi) that suffered from battery degradation due to poor/cheap engineering. So that explains my disdain for them.

    I hope that since they have fired their dead-brain CEO Fields, the new one can see the light as far as plug-in vehicles go.

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  21. 21
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:04 pm)

    See how enjoyable it is to receive the central digital signal from hundreds of further-delayed commuters when it is involved in a traffic jam accident, and you occupy it.

    Multiply the so called “waste of time” by a thousand or two other vehicle occupants in that jam whose time was consequently wasted. Or, their lives wasted at high speed in stark terror for their last few moments of life.

    But not to worry, that drunk tinkertronics guy at Google will just pour himself another tall glass of hard denial, protected by the LLC laws, and claim he’s so sorry, pour another glass of liquid denial and claim he’ll fix the bug in his software, because, in America, the LLC is an “I didn’t know” right to manslaughter.

    It is also about everyone else who has a right to use the roadways, not just what one person wants.

    Due diligence to drive is part of the ***privilege*** to drive.

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  22. 22
    Loboc

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:15 pm)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College,

    These straw-man arguments won’t stop the inevitable AI revolution in all things. Including driving cars.

    Machines are just better at it and will kill less people than people do. Probably an order of magnitude less death and destruction. Especially at 2am when the bars close.

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College: the LLC is an “I didn’t know” right to manslaughter.

    Then NHTSA will have something to say about it. IF this can even happen since certification is certain.

    As far as I know, no US auto manufacturer is an LLC.

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  23. 23
    George S. Bower

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:19 pm)

    Tom:
    I don’t want one I love too drive and really don’t like being a passenger.
    Tom

    I remember when the first HP35 came out and I was using a slide ruler.

    I said:

    “I don’t want an HP35 my slide ruler works just as well.”

    Just drove an 2015 P85D with AP back from the service center to Pine–1.5 hour drive.

    It has auto pilot. Unbelievable. Humans won’t be needed soon.

    Also my Model S is a regular 85 (no P). This loaner is a P85D. Holy Moley Andy. The acceleration is amazing!!

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  24. 24
    Loboc

     

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:20 pm)

    Loboc:
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College,

    These straw-man arguments won’t stop the inevitable AI revolution in all things. Including driving cars.

    Machines are just better at it and will kill less people than people do. Probably an order of magnitude less death and destruction. Especially at 2am when the bars close.

    Then NHTSA will have something to say about it. IF this can even happen since certification is inevitable.

    As far as I know, no auto manufacturer operating in the US is an LLC.

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  25. 25
    Jackson

     

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:20 pm)

    “This production milestone brings us one step closer to making our vision of personal mobility a reality,” said GM Chairman and CEO Mary Barra.

    Uh oh. Does this mean ride sharing? No one actually owns a car? This would certainly change the sales dynamic for the automakers. It’ll all be fleet purchases (the ride share providers). Are those deals made at a dealership?

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  26. 26
    jbakerjonathan

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:27 pm)

    Please! Let’s not succumb to ad hominem and name calling. There is enough of that in the world already. One of the reasons I like GM-Volt is because of the level of civility in discussions. We can have opposing opinions without being demonized.

    One of the obvious-to-me areas regarding autonomously controlled cars is where does the fault lie when an accident occurs. Is the owner liable or is the auto manufacturer liable. Will the engineer who authored the code be held liable? Will there be insurance companies who will write policies for autonomous vehicles? I haven’t seen an in-depth discussion about liability yet.

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  27. 27
    Jackson

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:29 pm)

    2po5ocj.jpg

    Decaffeinated Coffee. Let me show you it.

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    Kdawg

     

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:38 pm)

    George S. Bower: Just drove an 2015 P85D with AP back from the service center to Pine–1.5 hour drive.

    What is being serviced on your Tesla now? Also, how bad is it to have to drive 1.5 hours to a service center?

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  29. 29
    George S. Bower

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:58 pm)

    Kdawg: What is being serviced on your now? Also, how bad is it to have to drive 1.5 hours to a service center?

    annual service and inspection.

    If one is retired the 1.5 hours isn’t a big deal. Only 1 hour from winter house. I wanted an X loaner but they didn’t have one. A lady with a red Model X was there.

    she was having a issue with the falcon wing doors….imagine that:)

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  30. 30
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (3:01 pm)

    Not at all.
    If you don’t know the highest standards, you can’t demand the highest standards.

    That is how, every day, the technologically-totally-accepting people get ripped off *** the very worst*** at the high location count auto repair chains.

    I really hate it when you get ripped off. That’s why I don’t teach chain shops, nor want my Diagnostic Degree Diplomas on their walls with my good name on them. (Nor do they want an instantaneously-aware person witnessing them ripping you off.) (They don’t like me, nor I them). They are horrifically unethical.

    One of the very finest things Verticalscope provides society is this forum of critical thinking and the valid weighing of new proposed technologies.

    I push as hard as possible against flakiness where it can be most dangerous, and this topic is it.

    How soon has it already been forgotten regarding the Tesla decapitation.

    When there is engineering arrogance, consumer arrogance follows even faster.

    Except for one thing;
    The rest of us have a right to safe roadways.

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  31. 31
    George S. Bower

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (3:02 pm)

    jbakerjonathan:
    One of the reasons I like GM-Volt is because of the level of civility in discussions.We can have opposing opinions without being demonized.

    +1 I totally agree. Nice folks here. Some other sites suck. You guys are intelligent and not insulting.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (3:19 pm)

    Here’s a prediction:

    Early implementation of self-driving technology will delay acceptance of the eventual, mature and safe technology. I think it is too early, and the inevitable malfunctions will turn the public off, perhaps for a generation. Computers cannot deal with the unexpected, and every possible contingency has not been foreseen. That comes up in beta testing: in this case, we’ll be the testers.

    It does no good to point out how much better machines are than humans statistically. When a crash happens, the public perception number is a binary 1 or 0. Look how widely the Tesla autopilot crash was reported. I hate it that autonomous drive is being so closely tied to electric cars, which already have a perception problem.

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    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (3:24 pm)

    EXACTLY Jackson!!!

    I should get special permission to plus that 10, and make it green!!!

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (3:50 pm)

    Jackson: It does no good to point out how much better machines are than humans statistically.

    Obviously, we are at opposite ends of this bell-curve.

    If machines are 100x more capable than humans, then what? How about 1000x? What if fatalities from car crashes go from 35,000/year to 30/year? What if those 30 were caused by cars still driven manually by humans?

    What if lane-keeping, collision avoidance, and automatic braking on every car reduces the fatality rate by one half? Wouldn’t the government mandate those changes?

    Insurance companies and the various government entities will push VERY HARD for this huge
    reduction in destruction and mayhem.

    This is not only possible, it is inevitable. Not with AP or Super Cruise or any other half-way measure. With full autonomy.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (4:03 pm)

    Jackson: Computers cannot deal with the unexpected, and every possible contingency has not been foreseen.

    General AI can. The game ‘GO’ has more possible moves than stars in the universe. A Deep-Learning AI beat the best human less than 1 year ago. The system was not ‘coded’ to play GO. It was taught the rules and the AI system figured it out.

    Here is a link to the most recent demonstration:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/business/google-deepmind-alphago-go-champion-defeat.html?_r=0

    A Chinese computer has already surpassed human raw compute power. Yeah, it’s a huge machine, but, it can be done. Like the Arc Reactor, it just needs to be smaller.

    Jackson,

    Short answer: Yes. GM and others have been working on TAAS (Transportation As A Service) for a while now. The new paradigm will be no car ownership because it will be at least double the cost of TAAS.

    With autonomous cars, they even pick you up. No driver needed.

    This is what the Bolt was designed to do. It was not designed to be a normal car-ownership-model vehicle.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (4:05 pm)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College:
    EXACTLY Jackson!!!

    I should get special permission to plus that 10, and make it green!!!

    I gave him one of those 9 other plus-es on your behalf, Dan. Agree completely with all you have stated.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (4:06 pm)

    Loboc,

    It doesn’t happen without the will of the people, and that comes back to perception. Remember the alleged Volt fires? This was the only way most people found out the Volt existed. “Government Motors” did the rest. It didn’t matter what the truth was (which we knew), misreporting ruled the day; and there was widespread ad hominem commenting and name calling.

    How are the fortunes of the Plug-In these days? Sales have hovered near 2000 a month with changes of only a few percent a year. In many ways, it hasn’t really taken off. Certainly not as quickly as BEVs. I think a lot of sales performance has fallen to impressions from the earliest days (and a lack of will to set matters straight). There is no mathematical reason for this, and yet it is true. Don’t underestimate the power of perception.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (4:08 pm)

    George S. Bower: …A lady with a red Model X was there. She was having a issue with the falcon wing doors….imagine that. 🙂

    LOL

    Enjoy the Performance loaner!

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (4:10 pm)

    jbakerjonathan:
    Please!Let’s not succumb to ad hominemand name calling.There is enough of that in the world already.One of the reasons I like GM-Volt is because of the level of civility in discussions.We can have opposing opinions without being demonized.

    One of the obvious-to-me areas regarding autonomously controlled cars is where does the fault lie when an accident occurs.Is the owner liable or is the auto manufacturer liable. Will the engineer who authored the code be held liable?Will there be insurance companies who will write policies for autonomous vehicles?I haven’t seen an in-depth discussion about liability yet.

    Agree completely. For example, I have not once responded with ad-hominems to the ignorant morons in this thread who disagree with me.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (4:16 pm)

    Loboc: General AI can. The game ‘GO’ has more possible moves than stars in the universe. A Deep-Learning AI beat the best human less than 1 year ago. The system was not ‘coded’ to play GO. It was taught the rules and the AI system figured it out.

    A system has already surpassed human raw compute power. Yeah, it’s a huge machine, but, it can be done. Like the Arc Reactor, it just needs to be smaller.

    You can’t compare board games which have only a few narrowly-defined moves with a dynamically changing problem with zillions of pixels and sensor inputs every second and lives on the line. General AI learns by failing. Call it the “ouch” method; it’s how a Roomba learns a room. It knows more about it’s environment the more it bumps into things. I don’t want to be sitting in a vehicle depending on the “ouch” method. This portrays beta-testing in even more dire terms!

    And by the way, you do know there’s no such thing as an arc reactor?

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (4:33 pm)

    sparks: Agree completely.For example, I have not once responded with ad-hominems to the ignorant morons in this thread who disagree with me.

    ROFL!

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (4:35 pm)

    Jackson: you do know there’s no such thing as an arc reactor?

    As I said earlier, it is not possible to play GO using brute force. There are billionsxbillionsxbillions of moves. You are correct, narrow AI cannot do this.

    Yep, no Arc Reactor yet. There was no such thing as an iPhone 10 years ago either. Now, anybody with an iPhone (or Android) can access most of human knowledge from their pocket.

    Using your ‘ouch’ method, an AI learned to beat the best human player at Space Invaders (only reading the pixels) in 24 hours. It learned to anticipate the movement and place shots in exact collision with the targets. Causing collisions is only a small reversal to avoiding them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePv0Fs9cGgU

    Google’s autonomous vehicles map all objects in real time in a 360 view. Over a year ago, it was able to avoid hitting a bicycle rider that ran a red light. What have they learned in the past year?

    Jackson: Don’t underestimate the power of perception.

    Don’t underestimate the power of doubling the rate of doubling. Saying that plug-ins are ‘only’ 1% of sales in 10 years is at the very beginning of the ‘S’ curve. Once the tipping point (first big curve of the ‘S’) is reached, look out!

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (5:04 pm)

    American First:
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College,

    I wonder why you would not trust self driving vehicles. We have Autopilot in planes for years, and they work with great efficiency. The key is good sensors and software. We drive with our limited organic based optical sensors and even limited audio sensors for over a century, but these new electronic devices are far more sensitive. The computers are dedicated and react quicker than our brains which slow down and degrade with age.

    You can test some of their features now, such as the lane avoidance and automatic emergency braking in modern cars. I have test driven Ford’s “Park Assist” and I like it! There is a beautiful ad where an older man is in a Focus and using it, smiling all the time, and laughing when the Focus completed the self parking. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXlaedhOSWQ

    So as we grow older, we need more support from our vehicles than before, and any device that simplifies my driving is welcomed. The final test is a circuit race where all the cars are autonomous, and see how they avoid each other and finish the race. It may be quite boring!

    Your assertions are incorrect. You seem to think man has invented computers that operate faster
    than the human brain?

    Autopilot in planes? Autopilot on airplanes is not a “set it and forget it” system. You should know pilots cannot leave the cockpit and leave the controls unattended, right? Once reaching a predetermined altitude, pilots set autopilot, which keeps an accurate cruise at that altitude very accurately, so planes can be “stacked” at greater volumes on busy flight paths. It is in no way
    legal for both pilots to sleep or leave the system. In the air, there is adequate room between
    airliners ( miles ) for any errors or deviations to be corrected without hitting another airplane.
    This makes any reference to automatic flight systems in aircraft in regards to the driving environment on public roads an inappropriate one.

    Utopianists believe fully autonomous (level 5) cars and trucks are possible. They aren’t. Look
    to their limited capabilities and the legal liabilities. I’ve discussed these in detail many times on this site. Go speak to a lawyer and then determine if fully auto-drive cars will ever be a reality.

    In my eye, GM and other’s efforts will result in amazing safety systems and also smart cruise for those brain-numbing rush hour highway crawls. To go further and believe we can just nap in the back seat while the car drives us is utter nonsense.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (5:13 pm)

    James: In my eye, GM and other’s efforts will result in amazing safety systems and also smart cruise for those brain-numbing rush hour highway crawls. To go further and believe we can just nap in the back seat while the car drives us is utter nonsense.

    Don’t fall into the trap of believing that what we see now is everything that is possible. AP is not even close to full autonomy and it will never be full autonomy. The designer quit. Reason: he wanted to work on autonomy not driver assistance.

    It will take a leap like GM is taking with Cruize Automation and Google is taking with DeepMind technology. There is no way fancy cruise control can morph into autonomy. However, there is a way for DeepMind to get there.

    James: Go speak to a lawyer and then determine if fully auto-drive cars will ever be a reality.

    Lawyers work in a sub-culture of something called ‘The Law’. Lawyers may not change, but the law can and will change to move toward zero fatalities due to car crashes. It can happen fairly quickly like losing the presidential election.

    James: You seem to think man has invented computers that operate faster than the human brain?

    Yes there are such computers. In narrow applications so far (Mathematics, Chess, Jeopardy, GO) computers blow humans away. In AI neural nets, the rest of it is falling. Reading an MRI or CAT – almost there. And other fields are falling as well.

    You guys in other fields have no idea what is coming. There has been more progress in the last two years than the entire history of machine learning.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (5:56 pm)

    sparks: Agree completely.For example, I have not once responded with ad-hominems to the ignorant morons in this thread who disagree with me.

    LOL +1 for that!

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (6:22 pm)

    Loboc:
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College,

    These straw-man arguments won’t stop the inevitable AI revolution in all things. Including driving cars.

    Machines are just better at it and will kill less people than people do. Probably an order of magnitude less death and destruction. Especially at 2am when the bars close.

    Then NHTSA will have something to say about it. IF this can even happen since certification is certain.

    Time to back up your argument.

    Who is liable when personal property and human lives are compromised by an auto-driven car?

    I’ve discussed this at length here, but you just don’t buy it. So for your argument to hold any water you have to believe that government will force all cars driven to have level 5 or greater autonomous abilities. Does that mean we are forced to junk all cars without these systems?

    What about pedestrians? Will all citizens have to sign a waiver giving over their rights to personal
    safety – for the good of the majority ( supposed majority that need wheeled transport on public roads ).

    You have zero legal leg to stand on. These systems and all this research will be great for forwarding safety technology in cars – and allowing us less stress and fewer accidents ( fender benders to be sure! ) in rush hour, stop-and-go.

    There is a HUUUUGE chasm between George S. flying down the freeway with Tesla “Autopilot” ( not in any way true autopilot, btw ) and keeping his hands diligently near the wheel and touching the wheel ever few minutes and a full level 5 autonomous system where you sleep while your car drives.

    For full autonomy in vehicles to be legal, you would have to strip all human rights away from the population at large. No longer would we have a right to damages when and if we or our loved ones are damaged by an AI car in error.

    The only way I can foresee this being legal is in proprietary lanes, cordoned off from the general traffic on proprietary routes.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (6:30 pm)

    Loboc: Yep, no Arc Reactor yet. There was no such thing as an iPhone 10 years ago either.

    A fictional device is equivalent to a real one? The Arc Reactor needs new physics. The iPhone needed only time for evolution of understood technology; it could be foreseen 10 years ago. You can’t whip a new tech out of the air by wanting it. Or can you?

    People wanted “hang on the wall” TV and forecast it for over 50 years. “Is hang on the wall TV around the corner?” asked Popular Science decades ago. Well, now we have “flat screen” TV that no one hangs on the wall. Science fiction imagined robots for decades too — they were all humanoids. When was the last time you saw a humanoid robot walking down the street? Even long-predicted technology is seldom used as originally envisioned. Ideas like self-driving cars often do not proceed in a straight line, and you’ve got cheek to condemn ‘those idiots who don’t agree with’ you.

    Do you have an inside track detailed enough to inform a stock purchase?

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (6:34 pm)

    Loboc,

    Take a look at robotics for example. iRobot introduced the Roomba robot vacuum cleaner in 2003.
    While fascinating, it had generous limitations and needed remote IR pieces to keep it from falling down stairs, etc.. Today, we find new Roomba models on department store shelves. Are they better than the 2003 model? Barely. It shows the difficulties of making home assistance robots that can reach the consumer level when we see just how little has changed on these automatic vaccuum
    cleaners.

    I always dreamed that by now I would be able to purchase a device that would serve me at home –
    go get me a drink from the ‘fridge, or sweep and mop the floor. Maybe make the bed and fold the
    laundry. To date, there are some systems that have been invented that do some of these chores, but nothing affordable to the average consumer. Honda’s ASIMO robot costs $millions and is a great showpiece that has no path to a consumer device.

    You have a science fiction idea of AI and so does Elon Musk. He talks abundantly about how AI vehicles can save lives by having less accidents than humans – even at today’s tech level. He’s wrong only in that he is a scientist and not one who thinks of legal hurdles to reach any point near where there are no lawsuits that stifle the probability.

    You’re thinking of a world where we all willingly waive our rights to personal health and property to the good of society.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (7:28 pm)

    Thanks sparks at 35.
    You are most kind.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (7:53 pm)

    Loboc: …suburbs in DFW…

    DFW defines the ultimate traffic jam, especially the freeways around Dallas. I completely understand why you wouldn’t take the bus. Maybe Texas will install HyperLoop someday.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (9:24 pm)

    George S. Bower: annual service and inspection.

    If one is retired the 1.5 hours isn’t a big deal. Only 1 hour from winter house. I wanted an X loaner but they didn’t have one. A lady with a red Model X was there.

    she was having aissue with the falcon wing doors….imagine that:)

    I have been reading that Tesla is working full steam ahead on building service centers.

    It seems Model 3 will be out sooner than the added service centers and Superchargers can keep up.
    This is not going to bode well. Tesla has a whole bunch of intellectual stock built up today what with Musk’s reputation as Tony Stark, man about town, scientist billionaire. Right now, the cars are fast, exclusive and exciting. When 100,000 M3s begin dotting the landscape, surely those owners will expect none such inconveniences as a service center 1.5 hours away.

    This is going to get messy very soon. Hope Tesla can ward off all the bad press and bad mojo online and in media.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (9:27 pm)

    American First:
    Ford built twenty new Fusion Hybrids as autonomy test vehicles, not in the main plant in Mexico but at a special plant in Michigan. And the LIDAR units (by Ford-purchased Velodyne) are mounted as if they were new external mirrors on the “A” pillars, so the Fusions look more normal than the Bolt EVs. The cameras are integrated into the .

    Notice how nicely production Teslas have their cameras integrated inside the A and B pillars? That is a production car with a full array of sensors and cameras doing what this Ford and those Bolts and Pacificas are doing rolling around with enough hardware on the roof to look like a U.S. Navy destroyer!

    The Fusion with the roof rack and weird LIDARs – a whole lot of drag goin’ on up there!

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (9:37 pm)

    I’ve been reading about Volt’s ACC in the forums.

    It seems the system is better than ELR’s of only a couple years back, but nowhere near the sophistication of Autopilot 1.0 or 2.0. GM’s ACC is not supposed to be a suite of autonomous-drive components, sure – but people try to let Lane Keep Assist and ACC allow them to take their hands off the wheel. Some forum posters state that when you set ACC to 65-70 mph and somebody cuts into your lane, it slams down the speed and then when that person clears the lane, it floors it rather abruptly.

    These GM Bolts out on roads in the name of fully autonomous drive will surely give the engineers data that helps their lesser safety systems.

    I want the around-view camera on Volt and my wishlist also includes a 6.6 kw charge unit, HUD, turn signals in the side mirrors and infotainment wirelessly from my phone and an alert when you leave your cellphone in the charger ( on Premium models ) so you don’t take off without it.

    Also, with the cost of Bolt EV being steep as it is ( not for AER, but for a FWD vehicle of that form factor ), I’d want ACC on the Premier.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (9:56 pm)

    James: Notice how nicely production Teslas have their cameras integrated inside the A and B pillars? That is a production car with a full array of sensors and cameras doing what this Ford and those Bolts and Pacificas are doing rolling around with enough hardware on the roof to look like a U.S. Navy destroyer!

    The Fusion with the and weird LIDARs – a whole lot of drag goin’ on up there!

    Right James.
    I got to drive a P85D back to pine today fromthe Tesla S/C in scottsdale. I used auto steer a high percentage of the time. It was even good in the turns. You can set how many MPH over the speed limit it will let you engage. I set only at +4 so safe within the speed tolerance.

    It was pretty amazing how well it did in the turns. There’s one little section where it’s still posted 65 but the safe speed is 55 because of the turns so 68 in a 55 in some semi tight turns is pretty good. It worked well. I had the music off and payed attention the whole time with my hand on the wheel so I was ready if it didn’t work. It’s very good at reading the speed limit signs as well.

    It reduces driver fatigue by a factor of 2 or more.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (11:10 pm)

    James: You seem to think man has invented computers that operate faster than the human brain?

    Human brains are actually very slow compared to computers.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (11:20 pm)

    James,

    I think you are confusing robotics with AI. Familiarize yourself with Deep Learning. Here’s a good Ted Talk from 3 years ago. Progress is moving fast in this area.

    https://www.ted.com/talks/jeremy_howard_the_wonderful_and_terrifying_implications_of_computers_that_can_learn

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    Jun 15th, 2017 (2:08 am)

    Kdawg: Human brains are actually very slow compared to computers.

    From 2013 –

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/163051-simulating-1-second-of-human-brain-activity-takes-82944-processors

    http://gizmodo.com/an-83-000-processor-supercomputer-only-matched-one-perc-1045026757

    From 2016 –

    – And from this article about IBM developing computers that work like human brains, it says human brains work at 200mph, computer chips at the speed of light – but Even using 1.5 million processors and 8 megawatts of electricity —enough to power about 4000 homes—the supercomputer ran about 1,500 times slower than a human brain!

    It says – “However, even young children are able to do many things with ease that machines have great difficulty with, such as recognizing a face or catching a ball.”

    “The reason why is that our brains are, in technological parlance, massively parallel. Each one of our billions of neurons can, potentially at least, communicate directly with every other one. As we gather more experiences, synapses multiply and strengthen, wiring our brains to weave disparate pieces of information into familiar groupings that we can act on efficiently.

    We call this process learning and it really is an incredible thing. To understand it better, Dharmendra Modha, a research scientist at IBM, used a supercomputer to run a simulation of a human brain. What he found astonished him.”

    Interesting stuff. From this it looks as if computers may not accomplish what one human brain can in our lifetime.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/04/06/ibm-has-created-a-revolutionary-new-model-for-computing-the-human-brain/#1244f7f078b9

    It seems humankind is obsessed with creating human-like computers that learn and think like we do. We do have to keep increasing the computational power of our machines to avoid Moore’s Law and another Great Depression. Elon Musk and other big thinkers out there believe we are on a unavoidable path to AI that at first serves us, then takes over mankind altogether. Musk believes we can and will go to Mars successfully and inhabit the planet.

    After watching the National Geographic miniseries “Mars”, I tend to think we may try but fail. And in that series, they discuss how we, as societies do not have much appetite for death. Once a loss of life and material investment result in failure, we tend to pack it up. This is because the massive amount of human energy and investment to get there and populate the planet is too much. We have no real motivation to do so – and it would take multiple nations to accomplish the task, or corporate expenditure like we’ve never seen. Musk says we need to do it to insure survival of the human race. Looking at our world, we can see new countries obtaining nukes that have beliefs that do not revolve around human survival. Eventually some nut is going to press the red button. This speaks of Armageddon and it seems closer than ever before.

    When I examine Mars, it appears likely it could be a planet that was like Earth once. Could have been a hundred million or a billion years ago. Did someone like us destroy that planet and venture out to find a new one to populate? I don’t tend to believe so, but it is a very fascinating proposition. Our fossil record suggests Homo Sapien and Neanderthal existed at the same time in history. We obviously won out. Experts say much of that may have been based upon Homo Sapien’s vocal chord construction, giving us a much more complex range of tones/vocabulary. Where did Homo Sapien/ Euro Man come from?

    Will we kill ourselves off? Or will we, as Musk fears, create thinking AI that eventually kills us off? Will we allow an asteroid to hit the earth and kill us all off because we spend all our best mind power and energies developing weapons to kill each other off instead of protections from such an inevitable event? All in, it seems we are disposable on this planet – the big question is when will we kill ourselves off?

    Hmmm… One thing is for sure, lawyers will prevent the “Revenge Of The Autonomous Car”.

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    Jun 15th, 2017 (8:26 am)

    James,

    You are trying to compare simulating a complete human brain, when really we are just talking about algorithms. We don’t need general AI to drive a car.

    Regarding speed (and this is 6 years old).
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/computers-vs-brains/

    For decades computer scientists have strived to build machines that can calculate faster than the human brain and store more information. The contraptions have won. The world’s most powerful supercomputer, the K from Fujitsu, computes four times faster and holds 10 times as much data.

    James: human brains work at 200mph, computer chips at the speed of light

    This is correct, as I believe they are referencing the time it takes for a nerve signal to get processed by the brain. And when a task is broken down into a simple algorithm, like “pedestrian recognized, stop car”, a computer is going to react much faster than any human. Even the conscious thought of pushing the brake pedal takes time for a human brain to develop, then send the signals to your muscles to move your foot. Add in the fact that the computer is always watching & thinking, where humans like to do things like texting, drinking, makeup, or not sleeping enough.

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  59. 59
    Mark Z

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mark Z
     Says

     

    Jun 15th, 2017 (9:29 am)

    George S. Bower: It’s very good at reading the speed limit signs as well.

    Must be Autopilot version 1 (AP1).

    AP2 uses map data for speed limits at the present time.

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