Jun 13

How Well Might a 2018 Nissan Leaf With 38.4 kWh Do Against the 60 kWh Chevy Bolt?

 

Nissan has said its next Leaf will compete with the Chevy Bolt EV and a drive report saying for year-one its battery could have two-thirds the capacity indicates it just may.

The Bolt was built in response to Tesla’s Model 3 as a 200-plus-mile EV priced in the upper-mid 30s but as many an EV fan will point out, the two cars are apples and oranges, and the Leaf due for unveiling in September is a more likely competitor.

Both the Leaf and Bolt fit the four-door, front-wheel-drive hatchback mold, don’t aspire to compete with entry level German luxury performance sedans like the Model 3 will when released in July, and Nissan is hoping to defend turf it established.

As the most-successful EV to date, and still on the market as a generation-one product – albeit having range increases in 2013 and 2016 – the Leaf defines a type of car which the just-released Bolt improves upon in meaningful ways.

For a $37,495 starting price before $7,500 federal tax credit, the Bolt delivers 238 miles of EPA-rated range. It offers midsized volume in a compact footprint, and its quickness and handling are good enough that experienced auto writers have pondered how it would do in an autocross with stickier tires.

Details to this degree are as-yet lacking on the Leaf, but YouTube channel Electrified Journeys Japan reported – in a video since removed – an initial test drive of the 2018 pre-production Leaf indicates it’s off to a good start.

Range

The Leaf was first released in Dec. 2010. Actual photos of the 2018 Leaf are not available. Top photo is the IDS concept which lends some of its design to the new Leaf.

As has been reported before, the new Leaf may come first year with less than the new standard of over 200 miles EPA rated range. The Japanese video says this is due to a 38.4 kWh battery, which is much smaller than the 60 kWh pack in the Bolt.

The 38.4 kWh is said to be actual usable energy, not the total so the whole pack power may be nominally higher, and it might be good for somewhere over 150 miles range – well below the Bolt EV.

After its first year, the Leaf may get a larger battery option to give it greater parity, but it’s believed it will be priced competitively next to the Bolt – and European Opel Ampera-e, meaning an acceptable compromise. In Europe, it’s reported by PushEVs it may cost 10,000 euros less than the Ampera-e, and that’s a sizable savings in exchange for accepting 80 or so miles less range.

One hundred-fifty or more miles is enough for many would-be buyers, and given the Leaf will be all-new, it would stand to attract buyers/lessees to this follow-up from the Japanese automaker.

While there’s been talk of Nissan getting out of the battery making business, it’s reported Nissan didn’t seal a supply agreement deal with LG Chem and it will for the time being keep the AESC battery cell production. As such, the batteries for the U.S. Leaf are supposed to come from Nissan’s plant in Tennessee, and the European Leaf’s are to come from Sunderland England.

Drive Experience

The New Leaf will come with more power, but probably not as much as the Bolt, unless Nissan updates it between the pre-production drive and its official reveal in Japan in three months from now.

Output is estimated as north of 134 horsepower which means somewhat better pep, and the original Leaf is already acceptably quick from 0-45 mph, and even above, but the Bolt is downright fast.

The Bolt nets 200 horsepower and estimated time from 0-30 is 2.9 seconds, 0-60 is 6.5 seconds, and it actually pulls well up towards its 92 mph top speed.

SEE ALSO: 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Review – Video

Both cars have their batteries in the floor for low center of gravity. The Bolt is sharp, and it’s expected the Leaf may be also, but as yet there’s insufficient indication how closely the two will compare in handling dynamics.

Meanwhile the Leaf is quieter than before, with no more high-pitched whine, and now has more-powerful regenerative braking that may feel stronger than the Bolt EV which allows “one-pedal driving.”

This is accomplished via an additional high-regen mode which feeds so much regenerative braking that it will haul the car down to a stop in lieu of touching the brakes. The former Leaf was not super strong in regen compared to the Bolt, and the driver reportedly interviewed by Electrified Journeys Japan says the new Leaf’s regen offers a noticeable difference.

Design

Carscoops drew this rendering based on spy shots released in recent months.

Spy photos and artists renderings of the new Leaf suggest what has been reported for a while – the Leaf’s face will be more “mainstream” while building on the design language of the existing midsized car.

Compared to the Bolt EV, it would arguably be in the same aesthetic league, and come down to personal tastes.

Inside the 2018 model driven did not have as many changes, and offers evolutionary updates.

Due This Fall

The Leaf is expected to become available the month after its September unveiling.

Among details not reported is whether its battery will be liquid cooled, and the existing model’s battery is not – while the Chevy Bolt’s is.

What the scoop is on different battery size options will also be determined for those contemplating holding out for a longer range version, assuming that rumor is correct.

In all it appears the Bolt will be a relative hotrod as that’s been a priority with GM to bake in a fun-to-drive factor.

The Leaf brings to the table Nissan’s experience and knowhow in a second-generation EV, and given Nissan is entering a market expected to be competitive with a car that must endure, one might hope it’s done its homework.

Time will tell.

Electrified Journeys Japan via PushEVs, HybridCars.com

This entry was posted on Tuesday, June 13th, 2017 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

COMMENTS: 43


  1. 1
    BillR

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (6:19 am)

    Some of the answer to this question comes down to brand loyalty. Do current/former Leaf owners love their cars? Are they happy with the vehicle, or are they worried about battery degradation? What percentage of lessees are purchasing the Leaf when their lease expires?

    I’m sure a lower cost will attract some interest (maybe lessees more than buyers), but if there isn’t a lot of enthusiasm for the first generation, it will be an uphill battle to make the 2nd generation a success.

    DonC can probably add more here regarding his experiences with the Leaf.

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    Dave G

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (7:21 am)

    BillR: Some of the answer to this question comes down to brand loyalty.

    Very true, +1

    Although I have no idea why so many people are loyal to a particular brand.

    For me, this is a very strange concept. Brands aren’t loyal to us. Why should we be loyal to them?

    And especially for plug-ins, with so few models on the market to choose from, brand loyalty becomes particularly limiting. If it weren’t for the Volt, I never would have considered a Chevy. For our next car, we’re looking at the Pacifica Hybrid or the Outlander PHEV. Again, Chrysler and Mitsubishi are brands I wouldn’t have considered previously, but from everything I’ve read, these are both great cars, and no one else makes anything like them.

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    Jim I

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (7:42 am)

    The 150 mile range sounds OK, until you factor in winter weather and hot summer weather. Then it is a concern.

    And if the battery is still air cooled, battery degradation it is a real concern.

    But if it is priced at $11K less than a Bolt, there will be a lot of interest.

    As usual, we have to wait and see……

    Jim – C-5277

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    Eco_Turbo

     

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (7:49 am)

    I wonder if “someone” will be here today praising Nissan for doing such a good job of keeping the Leaf more mainstream with a smaller and cheaper battery?

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    Mark Z

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (7:53 am)

    I attend a Leaf EV group meeting that has met for 7 years. While some continue to drive the Leaf, several now own or lease a Tesla and a few are thrilled with their new Bolt EVs. Nine participants have reservations for Model 3. This is all very fluid and loyalty to one manufacturer does not appear to be an issue. Range is critical as everyone in the group have enjoyed lower range EVs and continue to seek the goal of charging at home for the majority of round trip travel.

    We enjoy sharing the positives and negatives of each vehicle and don’t argue over what vehicle is best. The right EV is whatever each person enjoys driving and using on a daily basis. Best of all is the discussion of technical topics that help maximize our enjoyment of electric vehicles.

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    Dave G

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (8:21 am)

    Jim I: The 150 mile range sounds OK, until you factor in winter weather and hot summer weather. Then it is a concern.

    And if the battery is still air cooled, battery degradation it is a real concern.

    Exactly. With the combination of battery degradation over time and the natural range loss is sub-freezing weather, half of the EPA range wouldn’t be unusual.

    Jim I: But if it is priced at $11K less than a Bolt, there will be a lot of interest.

    The current Leaf starts at $30,680. 107 miles EPA range. 30 kWh battery.

    That’s about $7000 less than the Bolt. If they increase the battery from 30kWh to 38.4kWh, I doubt they’ll be able to cut the cost by $4K in the process.

    By the way, the current base model Leaf is very stripped down, with 16″ steel wheels, and many other cheaper trim options. To get a current Leaf with 17″ alloy wheels, you need to spend $34,200, i.e. more than an equivalently equipped Volt.

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    Loboc

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (8:41 am)

    This is just the beginning. EVs will take over. Especially TAAS. There was a news clip this morning about Jaguar working with Lyft.

    – Autonomous cars are closer than we think
    – ICE demise in light vehicles is closer than we think
    – TAAS is closer than we think
    – Disruption of the existing car ownership paradigm is imminent.
    – Devastation of the related auto insurance industry is a near follow-on
    – Robo-car collision avoidance could obsolete safety standards.
    – Human drivers will face increased licensing scrutiny.
    – Personal car ownership and human licensing will be very expensive.

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    john1701a

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (8:45 am)

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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (9:16 am)

    it’s reported Nissan didn’t seal a supply agreement deal with LG Chem and it will for the time being keep the AESC battery cell production.

    If this thing still has the old un cooled AESC battery and only40 kwh battery that is a huge disappointment.

    All the speculation so far was that it would be a 60 kwh LG chem battery.

    Big flop IMO.

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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (9:23 am)

    Mark Z:

    We enjoy sharing the positives and negatives of each vehicle and don’t argue over what vehicle is best. The right EV is whatever each person enjoys driving and using on a daily basis. Best of all is the discussion of technical topics that help maximize our enjoyment of electric vehicles.

    Novel concept!!

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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (9:26 am)

    Dave G: .For our next car, we’re looking at the Pacifica Hybrid

    Looks like they are being recalled:
    http://insideevs.com/chrysler-pacifica-hybrids-recalled-us-canada-details/

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    nuclearboy

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (10:27 am)

    john1701a,

    “Chemistry upgrade a few years ago greatly reduced that. We haven’t heard reports from those newer models like that of the original Leaf, despite the raised awareness. It is no longer a concern.”

    I guess the GM engineers are just not smart enough to realize that so they keep wasting time with active cooling 🙂

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    john1701a

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (10:42 am)

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    Jim I

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (10:43 am)

    Dave G:

    For our next car, we’re looking at the Pacifica Hybrid or the Outlander PHEV.Again, Chrysler and Mitsubishi are brands I wouldn’t have considered previously, but from everything I’ve read, these are both great cars, and no one else makes anything like them.

    For me, the Pacifica is larger than what I need. And I am getting tired of the excuses for the Outlander still not being sold in the USA.

    It could be the greatest vehicle in the world, but if I can’t buy it what difference does it make?

    Are you listening GM? Staged rollout of the Bolt was just stupid, IMHO. They are not available in Ohio yet, and there are only 7 listed Bolts within 200 miles of our home in FL. There is only 1 from the local dealer I would actually buy a car from…..

    The Nissan would probably work for us in FL. If it is available when the lease is up on the Ford C-Max Energi in November, and is a lot less expensive than the almost non-existent Bolt, we may take a look. We have to get something, and as much as I like it, the 21 mile range of the Energi just doesn’t cut it.

    So now the question is: Will Nissan stupidly give all the cars to CA first and leave the rest of the country high and dry?????

    Jim – C-5277

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    BillR

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (11:00 am)

    Guess what? In just 4 hours, I have changed my mind. The Leaf is history.

    I went to the Chevy dealership this morning for an oil change. The salesman that I usually work with asks me “Have you seen our new Bolt?” (note, this is in NH). He takes me to the lot and shows me the car, then asks, “Would you like to take it for a drive?”. Who am I to say no?

    Let me just say that I have had my 2016 Volt for 1 1/2 years, and I think it is great! But this Bolt is pretty special! It was comfortable, and was easier to get in and out of than the Volt. It had all kinds of pep and felt very smooth and stable on the highway at 72 mph.

    The outside air temps were 82 to 85 F, and the AC ran the entire time. The steering wheel was just like the Volt, so that part was easy. It took some time to learn the new DIC, but I thought it was well laid out. The car only had about 20 miles on it, and indicated ~ 196 miles of range (mid-level), with about 235 max and 165 min. The car had registered 3.6 miles/kWh when I got in.

    I drove mostly back roads at 30 to 50 mph, with a short run of about 3 miles on the highway. When I had returned, the DIC indicated 4.4 mi/kWh, so I probably did close to 5 mi/kWh on that run.

    I stopped for a short while and looked at the car, and there is plenty of legroom in the front and the back. It appears to have ample storage room, especially when the seats are folded down. Although my Volt feels like a small car, the Bolt feels more like a midsize.

    Unless Nissan has really upped their game with regards to the Leaf, any sensible driver that drives both the Bolt and the Leaf, won’t be going home in a Nissan. The Bolt is just that good!

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    bro1999

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (11:11 am)

    john1701a: It clearly isn’t necessary.GM’s directive has been to exceed need though, providing a buffer to set their design apart.There’s nothing wrong with that, but it does have a tradeoff of making it more expensive.

    GM wants to go above & beyond.Good for them, as long as something affordable is added to the product-line too.

    Tesla also must be under that same directive.
    And Ford since the Focus Electric has liquid cooling.
    And BMW.

    Enjoy your ever slowly-degrading Prime battery with its air cooling!

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    john1701a

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (11:19 am)

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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (11:28 am)

    BillR:
    Guess what?In just 4 hours, I have changed my mind.The Leaf is history.

    I went to the dealership this morning for an oil change.The salesman that I usually work with asks me “Have you seen our new Bolt?” (note, this is in NH).He takes me to the lot and shows me the car, then asks, “Would you like to take it for a drive?”.Who am I to say no?

    Let me just say that I have had my 2016 Volt for 1 1/2 years, and I think it is great!But this Bolt is pretty special!It was comfortable, and was easier to get in and out of than the Volt.It had all kinds of pep and felt very smooth and stable on the highway at 72 mph.

    The outside air temps were 82 to 85 F, and the AC ran the entire time.The wheel was just like the Volt, so that part was easy.It took some time to learn the new DIC, but I thought it was well laid out.The car only had about 20 miles on it, and indicated ~ 196 miles of range (mid-level), with about 235 max and 165 min.The car had registered 3.6 miles/kWh when I got in.

    I drove mostly back roads at 30 to 50 mph, with a short run of about 3 miles on the highway.When I had returned, the DIC indicated 4.4 mi/kWh, so I probably did close to 5 mi/kWh on that run.

    I stopped for a short while and looked at the car, and there is plenty of legroom in the front and the back.It appears to have ample storage room, especially when the seats are folded down.Although my Volt feels like a small car, the Bolt feels more like a midsize.

    Unless Nissan has really upped their game with regards to the Leaf, any sensible driver that drives both the Bolt and the Leaf, won’t be going home in a Nissan.The Bolt is just that good!

    Cool BillR!!

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    larry4pyro

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (11:37 am)

    As a car for daily commutes a 40 KWH Leaf would be perfect. Of course this assumes this leaf would be significantly cheaper than the Bolt. On the other hand, a 40 KWH Bolt with a price tag about $5 K under the current price would be an even better commuter car because it’s 200 hp motor would give it a performance advantage over the Leaf. Come to think about it, whacking off 20 KWH off the battery would eliminate a couple hundred pounds off the Bolt making it even quicker and fun to drive than the current Bolt!

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    HVACman

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (11:55 am)

    BillR,

    Exactly why I avoid the sales area of my Chevy dealer when I take my Volt in for service. KV is almost paid for and I’d like a few years of debt-free driving before upgrading. But Bolt candy sure sounds tempting!

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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (11:57 am)

    HVACman:
    BillR,

    Exactly why I avoid the sales area of my dealer when I take my Volt in for service. KV is almost paid for and I’d like a few years of debt-free driving before upgrading. But Bolt candy sure sounds tempting!

    Nice that BillR has a good salesperson!!

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  22. 22
    john1701a

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (12:24 pm)

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  23. 23
    Dave G

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (12:38 pm)

    George S. Bower: Looks like they are being recalled:
    http://insideevs.com/chrysler-pacifica-hybrids-recalled-us-canada-details/

    Yes, I also noticed that in the gm-volt.com forum. Good to know they’re getting it right

    This is why I usually wait a year or two after introduction. 2011-2012 Volts had a recall to make sure the battery coolant wouldn’t drain out if the car was left upside down. Tesla had recalls to add a titanium armor layer underneath after road debris punctured the battery and caused a fire. In my mind, neither of these were real safety issues, but you still have to take it to the dealer and hope they don’t mess anything else up during the retrofit.

    This is why we waited and got the 2013 Volt. And this is why I’ll probably wait for the 2019 Pacifica Hybrid.

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    Upnorthqc

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (12:47 pm)

    The Renault Zoé got a new battery size (41 kwh) disposed like the Bolt since december 16. It seems like Nissan Leaf will get this battery before upgrading to 60 kwh.

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    bro1999

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (1:07 pm)

    john1701a: To be specific, Tesla superchargers draw at a rate up to 120 kW.With so much transferring so quickly, it totally makes sense having an active liquid cooling system.

    For a much smaller pack, that would be gross overkill.While charging from a 240-volt connection with Prime, it only draws 3.6 kW.

    That’s why the Ford C-Max/Energi owners have been suffering horrible degradation, right? Especially owners in hot climates. We’re talking 30-40% degradation before 36k miles/3 years. The Energis are active air cooled.

    But good luck with the longevity of your air-cooled Prime battery!

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    john1701a

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (1:24 pm)

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    James

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (1:59 pm)

    George S. Bower: Looks like they are being recalled:
    http://insideevs.com/chrysler-pacifica-hybrids-recalled-us-canada-details/

    That was my concern over Chrysler – reliability.

    Now over 1,700 Pacifica Hybrids have been recalled and sales have been frozen.

    It feels like Chrysler used Voltec as a system to copy – but perhaps their engineers underestimated the complexities and nuances of such a system. First the delayed rollout, now this major bump in the road…

    I find Pacific Hybrid very compelling, but trusting them with that much investment and their current track record of quality issues…? 30 miles AER… I’m not so interested any longer.

    Man! I wish GM would make something like Pacifica Hybrid or the MPV5!

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    Neromanceres

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (2:36 pm)

    john1701a: To be specific, Tesla superchargers draw at a rate up to 120 kW.With so much transferring so quickly, it totally makes sense having an active liquid cooling system.

    For a much smaller pack, that would be gross overkill.While charging from a 240-volt connection with Prime, it only draws 3.6 kW.

    Let me get this strait.

    Your comments started on how active liquid cooling is unnecessary on the Leaf. A car with 6.6KW AC charging and CHAdeMO DC fast charge capabilities.

    Then in just a few comments later turn around and say that cars that have DC fast charge it makes sense for them to have active liquid cooling?

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  29. 29
    Tim Shevlin

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (2:59 pm)

    If Chevy really, really wants to rattle Leaf and Teslas cage, bump the range to 260 mi. and add ACC. for 2018 1/2.
    That is a “moving target” that will keep everyone out of kilter.

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    Jackson

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (3:05 pm)

    Tim Shevlin,

    Or, just lower the price.

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    john1701a

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (3:35 pm)

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    RunningonSouler

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (4:36 pm)

    I think the success of a 150-mile Leaf 2.0 depends completely on price. If they could price an un-subsidized car below $30k, I think they might have a significant market. I have a 84-mile-range 2014 Leaf and I love it. It has its limitations: it is clearly a second car for our family. But I love driving it, and we use it for both my commute and all our local trips, reserving the ICE car for road trips. As a result, we put as many miles on the Leaf as the ICE car. When I leased the Leaf, I had my reservations about the range. But it has really been a non-issue for a second car. In three years, I have had to charge away from home exactly twice, and that was not a significant issue. With 150-miles of range and a modernized vehicle, combined with a low enough price, I think a Leaf 2.0 could find a strong market niche as a second car for local use. Clearly not a road trip car, but the auto market has many niches.

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    American First

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (6:33 pm)

    john1701a: It clearly isn’t necessary.GM’s directive has been to exceed need though, providing a buffer to set their design apart.There’s nothing wrong with that, but it does have a tradeoff of making it more expensive.

    GM wants to go above & beyond.Good for them, as long as something affordable is added to the product-line too.

    Ford hybrids use active air cooling or heating directing air from the cabin through two vents on the rear shelf (under the rear window) then through two ducts toward the battery case. The exhaust is forced by a large fan toward the trunk. It works perfectly and the ambient temperature has little impact on the battery range, since the battery shares the cabin temperature.

    There is a thread about the battery cooling system at the Fusion Hybrid Forum:
    http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/10120-hv-hybrid-battery-cooling-question/

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    bro1999

     

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (7:05 pm)

    American First: Ford hybrids use active air cooling or heating directing air from the cabin through two vents on the rear shelf (under the rear window) then through two ducts toward the battery case. The exhaust is forced by a large fan toward the trunk. It works perfectly and the ambient temperature has little impact on the battery range, since the battery shares the cabin temperature.

    There is a thread about the battery cooling system at the Fusion Hybrid Forum:
    http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/10120-hv-hybrid-battery-cooling-question/

    Perfect? Lol
    http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/2882-poll-what-is-your-battery-capacity/page-1

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    sparks

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (8:58 pm)

    john1701a:

    For a much smaller pack, that would be gross overkill.While charging from a 240-volt connection with Prime, it only draws 3.6 kW.

    If active cooling was overkill, the GM engineers would not be using it in their designs.

    So we have your opinion quoted here, and on the other hand we have the reality — active cooling — on both Volt and Bolt products. And with cost-cutting being a very high priority for both, engineering would have pushed the trade-off hard, trying to eliminate the active cooling. In the end, it could not be justified, due to the battery degradation reasons cited repeatedly in this thread.

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (9:40 pm)

    sparks,

    The discussion was comparing AIR cooling to LIQUID cooling. Both can be active, as was pointed out with the Ford & Toyota designs.

    We can also discuss the difference between ACTIVE cooling and PASSIVE cooling, but that hadn’t been brought up in this thread until your post.

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (10:02 pm)

    john1701a:
    sparks,

    The discussion was comparing AIR cooling to LIQUID cooling.Both can be active, as was pointed out with the Ford & designs.

    We can also discuss the difference between and PASSIVE cooling, but that hadn’t been brought up in this thread until your post.

    The terms have been used loosely in this thread and I adopted them as I knew nobody would be so pedantic as to take issue with the lexicon as opposed to the message. You and everybody else know what I am saying as we all have the same context. You have just demonstrated that you are not interested in a real inquiry but rather just games and semantics. I should have listened to the wisdom of others on this thread and dismissed your comments outright, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. No more.

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    Jun 13th, 2017 (11:18 pm)

    sparks: The terms have been used loosely in this thread and I adopted them…

    The hope is that no one will take the time to point out missing detail. They’ve been playing that game for years. It’s a sign of trouble to come if competing with gen-2 Leaf involves vague & misleading references. The difference between active & passive cooling has nothing to do with the difference between air & liquid cooling.

    And speaking of leaving out detail, why was the word ACTIVE removed from what I said?

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (2:29 pm)

    john1701a: The difference between active & passive cooling has nothing to do with the difference between air & liquid cooling.

    And speaking of leaving out detail, why was the word ACTIVE removed from what I said?

    So why are you hung up on the active/passive red herring, as opposed to debating the true difference between Volt and Leaf batteries? I’ll tell you why: You know the Leaf battery technology is inferior, as does everybody including Nissan, so distraction is all you have left.

    Regarding the loss of ACTIVE — another distraction — check with website admin, as I have no idea what happened there. That should give you something material to do.

    LOL, this morning my browser was still on this thread, so I saw J1701’s reply and couldn’t resist giving him one more jab. LOL.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (5:36 pm)

    sparks: So why are you hung up on the active/passive red herring, as opposed to debating the true difference between Volt and Leaf batteries? I’ll tell you why: You know the Leaf battery technology is inferior…

    That is the game… dismiss what you don’t like, divert focus to something else, then declare superiority. Ugh. The goal is to replace traditional vehicles. Nissan is clearly striving to do that.

    Why are we still waiting for GM to deliver something affordable that targets their own showroom shoppers?

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (9:04 pm)

    john1701a: That is the game… dismiss what you don’t like, divert focus to something else, then declare superiority.Ugh.

    Sort of reminiscent of several weeks back when I posted the comment about your new Prime on your Facebook page, and wrote “You would have been better off with a Chevy Volt”.

    That got dismissed, diverted, hidden, refocused, and basically deleted. Don’t worry, we know you are a master at that game.

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    Jun 14th, 2017 (10:30 pm)

    BillR,

    I never did figure out who’s account you actually posted on and was curious what they’d say. It’s like when someone from here tries the same game elsewhere… the response is very, very different.

    Reality is, the “too little, too slowly” concern has become a genuine problem and I actually stay on topic. So, you can say whatever you’d like. Just remember, the phaseout of tax-credits is rapidly approaching…which changes the game.

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    Jun 15th, 2017 (10:30 am)

    To keep the offering affordable is the reason for smaller battery packs.

    To keep the offering affordable is also why active cooling using air is used instead of active cooling with liquid.

    More is nice but clearly unnecessary.

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