Apr 19

Kelley Blue Book Recommends Toyota Prius Prime Over Chevy Volt

 

The all-electric range provided by a plug-in hybrid is the biggest reason to buy one, but that did not stop Kelley Blue Book from naming a 25-mile range Toyota over a 53-mile range Chevrolet.

For the 2017 list of “5 Best Plug-in Hybrid Cars Under $40,000,” Toyota’s Prius Prime took top honors over the runner up Chevy Volt from the editors of the consumer automotive website.

Obviously weighing factors beyond all-electric range, KBB assessed the total value proposition perceived by the follow-up to Toyota’s Prius PHV.

The compact Chevy Volt was the first plug-in car to undergo a complete redesign in 2016. The midsized Prius Prime was the second in 2017.

“KBB’s Electric/Hybrid Car Best Buy for 2017, the Toyota Prius Prime brings together the time-tested reliability of Toyota technology, a pleasantly rewarding drive, and easy-to-use efficiency,” said the publication.

The new “Prime” saw its price tag seriously marked down from the $30-40,000 2012-2015 plug-in Prius while doubling the battery size from 4.4 kWh to 8.8, and though considered the Prius range topper, it’s stickered midway in the regular Prius Liftback hybrid’s range.

Both the $27,985 Prime and the $34,095 Volt are eligible for federal tax credits, though the Volt is actually eligible for $7,500 and the Prime is eligible for $4,500.

Additional bonus points for the Prime however include a substantial 54 mpg rating in hybrid drive mode – when the battery is not solely driving the wheels – versus the Volt’s 42 mpg, plus other factors put the Prime over the top.

SEE ALSO: Why the 2016 Chevy Malibu Hybrid Gets Better MPG Than The 2016 Chevy Volt

Chevrolet actually admitted it saved money on the motor drive for the Volt and assumed its buyers would emphasize the EV drive potential and not place as high a premium on its hybrid mode.

As such, its sibling Malibu Hybrid – a larger car with larger engine and more power – that’s otherwise based on the Volt’s hybrid system architecture, is rated 46 mpg in hybrid mode, topping the Volt by 4 mpg.

The Chevy Volt is considered by many, if not all, to be more attractively styled. The Prime also now has only four seats which the Volt caught heat for in gen one. The 2016 has a middle back hump which can accept a third passenger.

That decision and Toyota’s decision in reverse to eke out slightly higher mpg from the Prime than the 52 mpg Liftback mean on longer drives when not in EV mode the Prime has a huge 12 mpg advantage.

Couple that with Toyota’s reputation for quality, possibly resale value, and other subjective factors KBB did not outline in a brief write-up, and the Prime despite its lowly 25 miles EV range looks alright overall.

And the market seems to be agreeing. The Prime has only been roling out to all dealers across the country. Some reports have alleged its dealers were not stocking or promoting it, though Toyota denied that.

SEE ALSO: Should You Buy A 2017 Toyota Prius Prime?

For the first quarter of this year, its sales are believed to be siphoning off some customers from its non-plug-in Prius stablemate and its 4,346 units delivered through March is OK next to the Volt’s 5,563.

The Prime is a relative slouch off the line. 0-60 takes around 10 seconds next to the Volt’s 8.4, and the Volt rockets to 30 mph in 2.6 seconds.

This is not to downgrade the Volt overly much, however, and Kelley Blue Book nearly gushes praise for the Volt too, which made it a former Kelley Blue Book Best Buy Winner.

“…beyond efficiency, it’s just a better car, period. It’s fun to drive, with a nicely sorted suspension, good steering and decent power from its unique drivetrain,” wrote KBB in its prior review of the second-generation Volt compared to the first-generation Volt. “The interior is both more conventional and more high-tech than before, thanks to the use of real buttons combined with features like Apple CarPlay. It can even seat five people, at least for short drives, and it looks great. The price is also spot-on with the Toyota Prius, after you deduct for federal and state EV credits.”

SEE ALSO: Chevy Volt Travels 300,000th Mile

As things stand, the Volt still has its 53 miles EV range versus the Prime’s 25, and for all the reputation Toyota brings, the Volt has been a relative standout on the reliability front.

Time will tell whether the Prime gaining speed this year in the sales race overtakes the Volt, and the market comes fully in line with KBB’s recommendation.

KBB

This article appears also at HybridCars.com

This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 19th, 2017 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 43


  1. 1
    Rashiid Amul

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (6:04 am)

    Today, when more battery range is wanted, this Prius falls short.


  2. 2
    firehawk72

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (6:09 am)

    They are both good cars depending on your needs. What I really like about the Toyota is that Safety Features are standard like the following:

    Toyota Safety Sense™ P (TSS-P)20 — Pre-Collision System38 with Pedestrian Detection29 (PCS w/PD), Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist (LDA w/SA),19 Automatic High Beams31 and Full-Speed Range Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC)17

    This is very important to me and most people.

    Having said that, as for the Prius Prime getting better MPG over the Volt is about silly. The Volt is amazing in range and makes this point virtually pointless in any real comparison. The Volt is simply a better EV in every measurable way. I really like what car and driver had to say about it. They basically said and I am paraphrasing here, “Yeah, the Volt cost a little more money, but it is worth every penny of it”

    Per CarandDriver: Still not convinced? Take a long look at the Prius and the Volt. While the Volt might look a bit generic and too much like a Hyundai Elantra, at least it doesn’t look like a protest against taste. Inside, the Volt is similarly conventional. We’d call it ­Malibu-plus for the way it mimics the approachability of a ­family sedan’s interior. Gone is the first gen’s capacitive touch switchgear; instead, you get real buttons. An eight-inch touchscreen is a familiar sight in GM cars and trucks, and it works well. Overly firm seats didn’t impress, however, and although the rear seat theoretically can hold three, there’s not much leg- or headroom back there. A small door opening makes getting in and out of the back seat difficult, too. For Uber duty, the Prius has the Volt licked.

    Everywhere else, the Volt is the clear ­winner. It doesn’t require any sacrifices in driving pleasure or performance in the name of economy. Its styling doesn’t make an anti-car ­statement, and it certainly doesn’t have a large back seat, but it’s a more mature plug-in hybrid and a more satisfying car. The Volt quali­fies for a federal tax credit that’s $3000 more than the Prius Prime’s ($7500 compared with $4502). That narrows but doesn’t close the Toyota’s price lead. We’d be happy to pay the extra money for the Volt. It’s worth it.


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    BAZINGA

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (6:25 am)

    My 2017 Volt is 8 months old, with 56xx DD miles, VoltStats.net reports my stats (Von Zipper) at 99.x%. My ICE has run 50 miles during this time. So the so called increased gas mileage difference of 10 MPG means NOTHING for an owner like me. This past weekend my GOM displayed 71 miles, I was able to drive from our home in Illinois over to St Louis for a brunch with friends and then some shopping. When I got home I had driven over 54 miles and that was with 4 adults, a full hatch of stuff and some AC use. And I still had a few miles left.

    I know I own the better vehicle.


  4. 4
    James McQuaid

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (6:35 am)

    Where are all of the inbred, political TV educated, lowlife scumbags screaming that Toyota must be losing money on every Prius sold? Odd, I don’t hear them. The human trash certainly were loud and obnoxious when it came to the Volt.

    Not since the smear job against Tucker Motor Company has the automobile industry seen such a malicious and destructive propaganda campaign.


  5. 5
    Mark Z

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (6:47 am)

    Just one look, is all it took. The Chevrolet Volt is the winner for style and usable all electric range. No argument here, especially after owning the first generation Volt and enjoying it immensely.

    It is General Motors that generously gives you the added EV range you need each day. The extra weight of more battery power provides better handling and only requires additional fuel when traveling longer distances. It’s a small price to pay for the value and enjoyment of the superior EV range that pays you back everyday with luxurious 100% electric acceleration, performance and less fuel needed for the daily drive.


  6. 6
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (9:21 am)

    Of course, KBB may be technical to some extent, but we think the Toyota non-refrigeration-cooled battery design will ER-fail ***entirely***, ***5 years sooner overall***, than Voltec begins to exhibit ***slight*** range decreases ***at all.***

    Otherwise, the company would have competed with its air cooled design staring 6 years ago.


  7. 7
    MotoBCT

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (9:42 am)

    Mark Z:
    Just one look, is all it took. The Chevrolet Volt is the winner for style and usable all electric range. No argument here, especially after owning the first generation Volt and enjoying it immensely.

    It is General Motors that generously gives you the added EV range you need each day. The extra weight of more battery power provides better handling and only requires additional fuel when traveling longer distances. It’s a small price to pay for the value and enjoyment of the superior EV range that pays you back everyday with luxurious 100% electric acceleration, performance and less fuel needed for the daily drive.

    Payload capacity for Prius Prime – 670 lbs Approx. 170 lbs per person and zero luggage or items in the hatch

    All I can say is members of the Toyoda design team must be ancestrally related to the founder of Toyoda. Otherwise, the company is out of touch with reality and public want. For such a large company with tons of profit, and a clean sheet design, it is a B- IMO.

    Tesla designers may not be perfect but for the budgets that have to work with and their relatively new status, they get how much styling contributes to overall appeal.

    Shame on you Toyota.

    Update: Maybe it has more to do with culture than anything else. I cannot recall a Japanese automobile designer being sought by a non Japanese auto company.

    If Toyota looked outside of their entrenched culture for talent things would change (i.e. Kia and Hyundai).

    http://www.automobilemag.com/news/25-most-influential-car-designers/

    Payload capacity for Prius Prime – 670 lbs Approx. 170 lbs per person and zero luggage or items in the hatch


  8. 8
    Jackson

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (10:02 am)

    Prepare yourselves, for the High Priust approaches.

    Pre-emptive point:

    “The [Volt’s] price is also spot-on with the Toyota Prius, after you deduct for federal and state EV credits.”


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    Jackson

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (10:11 am)

    Mark Z: Just one look, is all it took.

    MotoBCT: I cannot recall a Japanese automobile designer being sought by a non Japanese auto company.

    If Toyota looked outside of their entrenched culture for talent things would change (i.e. Kia and Hyundai).

    So, the Volt market is the forward-looking driver who wants the best of the attainable, and with more conventional styling as opposed to Japanese quirkiness.


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    volt11

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (10:22 am)

    “Chevrolet actually admitted it saved money on the motor drive for the Volt and assumed its buyers would emphasize the EV drive potential and not place as high a premium on its hybrid mode.”

    Chevy compromised in a number of areas with the second gen Volt, always assuming buyers would settle for less than the best they could do, presumably to save a few hundred bucks on the bottom line price. It’s really time to stop compromising, GM.

    HOWEVER, no amount of penciling makes the Prius Prime a desirable car. Like Justice, KBB apparently weighed the facts blindly.


  11. 11
    Viking79

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (10:34 am)

    I like how they basically say the Prime is worse in every way except for efficiency, but end up picking it 🙂

    A 12 MPG increase is not actually that great, 25% or so is not a huge difference, especially on a vehicle that is meant to use the gas engine as little as possible. I still recommend something like a Prius for people driving hundreds of miles every single day, but if you can run most of the day burning less than 1 gallon of gas the Volt is better.

    For example, if you have a 100 mile per charge opportunity commute, the Volt needs 47 miles of gas and the Prius Prime needs 75 miles of gas (assuming EPA ratings). That is 1.1 gallons for the Volt and 1.4 gallons for the Prius Prime, so even though the PP is more efficient it is using more gas for a majority of users.

    Another example, if I drive 200,000 miles over the life of the vehicle, 90% electric in the Volt, that is only about 476 gallons of gas, and the Prius Prime is say 80% electric over the same, that is 740 gallons. In other words, the 25% more efficient Prius is using 50% more gas for the average user (it burned gas created from 14 additional barrels of oil)


  12. 12
    Dave - Phoenix

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (11:20 am)

    The price is the primary reason for the rating.

    The Prime is priced where we felt the Volt GEN II needed to be priced in order to be considered main stream.

    We can fool ourselves all we want, but the Prius Prime is priced to sell and the Volt is not…


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    MotoBCT

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (11:31 am)

    Dave – Phoenix:
    The price is the primary reason for the rating.

    The Prime is priced where we felt the Volt GEN II needed to be priced in order to be considered main stream.

    We can fool ourselves all we want, but the Prius Prime is priced to sell and the Volt is not…

    Is an approximate 3K differential enough? Not for me. There are many concessions that go with having a Prime but maybe I am an outlier.


  14. 14
    Dave - Phoenix

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (11:37 am)

    MotoBCT: Is an approximate 3K differential enough? Not for me. There are many concessions that go with having a Prime but maybe I am an outlier.

    The tax credit doesn’t make a difference if you have to pay the extra $6K up front to get the car out of the showroom.

    I think this has proven itself over and over with the Volt the past 6 years…

    If you want to sell these in any significant numbers, the first number in the price has to be a “2”.


  15. 15
    Loboc

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (12:03 pm)

    Lol. Putting a Toyota article on a Volt site. Need some extra click traffic today?

    My daughter is a Toyota person. Unlikely she would go GM instead. So, I would recommend PiP for her daughter’s first car.

    Notice that Volt is getting more sales than ever. I believe that this is partially a result of Volt actually having a close rival instead of trying to compare to Leaf. Or worse: Tesla.

    I also believe that because of the ‘Toyota person’ buyer context that PiP will do better in overall 2017 sales than Volt.


  16. 16
    Dave - Phoenix

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (12:11 pm)

    Loboc: Notice that Volt is getting more sales than ever. I believe that this is partially a result of Volt actually having a close rival instead of trying to compare to Leaf. Or worse: Tesla.

    I also believe that because of the ‘Toyota person’ buyer context that PiP will do better in overall 2017 sales than Volt.

    Competition for the Volt can only be a good thing. The benefactor of this will be the American consumer.


  17. 17
    MnVikes

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (12:46 pm)

    If the choice is between a more efficient range extender vs more batteries, I’ll take the batteries.
    I used to worry that my MY13 used premium fuel until I realized I’ve used 293 gallons of gas in 4 years or ~$30/year difference

    A 25 miles AER compact car is not a car I’m interested in. If it was a larger car/SUV, then I’ll consider that part of the trade off.


  18. 18
    James

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (2:47 pm)

    firehawk72:
    They are both good cars depending on your needs.What I really like about the Toyota is that Safety Features are standard like the following:

    Toyota Safety Sense™ P (TSS-P)20 — Pre-Collision System38 with Pedestrian Detection29 (PCS w/PD), Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist (LDA w/SA),19 Automatic High Beams31 and Full-Speed Range Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC)17

    This is very important to me and most people.

    Having said that, as for the Prius Prime getting better MPG over the Volt is about silly.The Volt is amazing in range and makes this point virtually pointless in any real comparison.The Volt is simply a better EV in every measurable way.I really like what car and driver had to say about it.They basically said and I am paraphrasing here, “Yeah, the Volt cost a little more money, but it is worth every penny of it”

    Per CarandDriver: Still not convinced? Take a long look at the Prius and the Volt. While the Volt might look a bit generic and too much like a Hyundai Elantra, at least it doesn’t look like a protest against taste. Inside, the Volt is similarly conventional. We’d call it ­Malibu-plus for the way it mimics the approachability of a ­family sedan’s interior. Gone is the first gen’s capacitive touch switchgear; instead, you get real buttons. An eight-inch touchscreen is a familiar sight in GM cars and trucks, and it works well. Overly firm seats didn’t impress, however, and although the rear seat theoretically can hold three, there’s not much leg- or headroom back there. A small door opening makes getting in and out of the back seat difficult, too. For Uber duty, the Prius has the Volt licked.

    Everywhere else, the Volt is the clear ­winner. It doesn’t require any sacrifices in driving pleasure or performance in the name of economy. Its styling doesn’t make an anti-car ­statement, and it certainly doesn’t have a large back seat, but it’s a more mature plug-in hybrid and a more satisfying car. The Volt quali­fies for a federal tax credit that’s $3000 more than the Prius Prime’s ($7500 compared with $4502). That narrows but doesn’t close the Toyota’s price lead. We’d be happy to pay the extra money for the Volt. It’s worth it.

    Car and Driver did not get 54 MPG when the electrons ran out either. If memory serves,
    they recently tested the Ioniq Hybrid and got 45 MPG, not the listed 56 MPG, and their
    time with the Prime got 42 MPG.

    I believe Hyundai may be in trouble with their EPA MPG numbers ( again! ) as we know
    they fudge and have paid for it in the past. Hyundai has some cute TV commercials
    for Ioniq with a cute jingle about wanting a hybrid car, but we want accuracy in
    reporting.

    We still own our Prius, but not for long. When I drive it occasionally, I shrug, it’s so
    hard to get decent MPG with it. When I drive it like the Volt, not paying attention, it
    gives in the 30s – When I obsess over it and glide – 44 MPG this time of year! I
    really hate driving the thing, truth be told. HSD stinks!

    I truly believe GM engineered Volt to be driven like people are
    used to driving their ICE cars. There was no deep learning curve to coax MPG from the car. I used to work diligently with the Volt to maximize range and MPG, but no longer. Why? It really was so easy to just drive and still see max electric range. I really don’t drive long distances all that often, and when we do, it’s the same thing. From my past experience trying to milk every MPG out of our Prius, I still accelerate more than most people on a downhill BEFORE the uphill, glide when I can NOT using L mode – and it’s automatic. The Prius is labor. It’s electric motor is so weak and it’s gas engine so buzzy and feable, it’s like playing two weaklings against each other coaxing them to give you what you paid for!


  19. 19
    James

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (2:57 pm)

    When this latest Prius came out – I laughed at how reviewers told of how the “gas engine doesn’t come on as much as in past iterations”. I mean – if it did, it would be a piece of junk! They HAD to improve that somewhat. Still, with it’s measly battery pack and seating for 4, it would be a no-go for me to buy – just at that! Let alone looks only a mother could love and perhaps
    the goofiest-looking touchscreen/dash integration in modern
    history. I detest volume up/down buttons – not knobs. The new Volt fixed that, Toyota WENT TO THAT! Shiny white and black finger-magnet plastics and all with no Apple CarPlay or Android Auto.

    If the Prime was the only plug-in in town, I’d buy it. I have to
    have a plug in any new car I buy now, short of a Sprinter van.
    That said – I’ll take my tax credit cushion and match the Prime’s
    price and be a happy man.


  20. 20
    Steve

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (3:04 pm)

    The article implies that there’s room for GM to tweak the performance a bit on Gen 2. What I can observe is that on daily errands that use no gas for my 2014 Volt, the 2017 Prius prime will burn some gas. You take the EPA range of the current volt vs the prime and a 50 mile trip, the Volt uses zero gas and the prime uses about half a gallon.

    So for me, the prime isn’t even matching the efficiency of my Gen 1.


  21. 21
    Dave - Phoenix

     

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (3:07 pm)

    MnVikes: A 25 miles AER compact car is not a car I’m interested in. If it was a larger car/SUV, then I’ll consider that part of the trade off.

    I remember a lot of discussions in the early Volt days, where a lot of folks expressed the desire for a lower priced Volt (around $25K) that only got 20 miles range.

    The Prius Prime matches that almost exactly. $28K and a 25 mile AER…

    Hmmmm……


  22. 22
    James

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (3:11 pm)

    Steve:
    The article implies that there’s room for GM to tweak the performance a bit on Gen 2.What I can observe is that on daily errands that use no gas for my 2014 Volt, the 2017 Prius prime will burn some gas.You take the EPA range of the current volt vs the prime and a 50 mile trip, the Volt uses zero gas and the prime uses about half a gallon.

    So for me, the prime isn’t even matching the efficiency of my Gen 1.

    Yes! Exactly. Plus 1

    Took the words right out of my mouth. If the contest was between gen 1 Volt and Prime,
    the Volt still wins!

    They both have lousy user interfaces/center stack – and 4 seats, but the Volt
    gets the full tax credit and it’s not hard in mild weather to get 45 miles AER and an
    honest 40 MPG in CS mode.

    A pretty weak contender from Toyota – 6 years after Volt 1.0!

    The reason I know John hasn’t driven any Volt is that he never talks about
    acceleration. Man – the difference between Volt 1.0 and Prius is vast. The Volt just
    goes, and the Prius just lies there. Toyota had to improve it somewhat. Still,
    the Volt 2.0 walks off and leaves Prime in the dust , and you can’t seat your
    kid’s friend on a cupholder.


  23. 23
    James

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (3:47 pm)

    GM doesn’t advertise Volt.

    If they did – they must do a Prius vs. Volt side-by-side. Just go down the
    list. Handling, acceleration – and the biggest of all, 53 smooth, quiet, gas-free
    miles and no visits to the gas station!

    GM has these cool web videos that nobody watches – since they spent the
    dollars on the ads, you’d think they could run them on TV – but no. They are
    up against the 200,000 limit on the tax credit and have Bolt EVs to sell.

    Real Volt Owners –

    Real Estate guy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx71LPT4zvE

    Hockey Player:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaQD7M7QKnE

    TV Producer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwfwFzTlUxk

    Steve – Regular Guy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ksvJ4_De5k

    Aleisha – Mom

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXhsNZ2YywQ

    None of these people talk about cross-shopping Prius/Prime. This would be good.

    But who cares? Since the only place I find these ads is preaching to the choir
    in my Volt Owners facebook page! L 😮 L

    TOYOTA – On the other hand takes us back to 2011 with their stupid, silly and non informational CAVEMAN AD for Prime.

    Big money to produce – but haven’t seen this on TV as of yet. If they do run it on TV, it’s SO MUCH like GM’s lame attempts to sell gen 1 Volt with stupid, silly ads that don’t really prove
    anything – but that they can make stupid silly ads and spend
    big money doing it.GM did the exact same thing with gen 1 Volt. The ads were silly, but nobody got the gist of why they should consider buying a Volt. It’s so hard to sell a car that makes your ICE models look bad, isn’t it?

    CAVEMAN PRIME:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t6yWHw758Y


  24. 24
    firehawk72

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (4:44 pm)

    James: Car and Driver did not get 54 MPG when the electrons ran out either. If memory serves,
    they recently tested the Ioniq Hybrid and got 45 MPG, not the listed 56 MPG, and their
    time with the Prime got 42 MPG.

    I believe Hyundai may be in trouble with their EPA MPG numbers ( again! ) as we know
    they fudge and have paid for it in the past. Hyundai has some cute TV commercials
    for Ioniq with a cute jingle about wanting a hybrid car, but we want accuracy in
    reporting.

    We still own our Prius, but not for long. When I drive it occasionally, I shrug, it’s so
    hard to get decent MPG with it. When I drive it like the Volt, not paying attention, it
    gives in the 30s – When I obsess over it and glide – 44 MPG this time of year! I
    really hate driving the thing, truth be told. HSD stinks!

    I truly believe GM engineered Volt to be driven like people are
    used to driving their ICE cars. There was no deep learning curve to coax MPG from the car. I used to work diligently with the Volt to maximize range and MPG, but no longer. Why? It really was so easy to just drive and still see max electric range. I really don’t drive long distances all that often, and when we do, it’s the same thing. From my past experience trying to milk every MPG out of our Prius, I still accelerate more than most people on a downhill BEFORE the uphill, glide when I can NOT using L mode – and it’s automatic. The Prius is labor. It’s electric motor is so weak and it’s gas engine so buzzy and feable, it’s like playing two weaklings against each other coaxing them to give you what you paid for!

    They rarely ever hit any EPA numbers for any car. They drive them like a bat out of hell. CarandDriver favors performance over most other factors, generally.


  25. 25
    James

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (4:52 pm)

    firehawk72: They rarely ever hit any EPA numbers for any car.They drive them like a bat out of hell.CarandDriver favors performance over most other factors, generally.

    I found it interesting in the notes section of the test that they found it necessary
    to discourage that thought. They said the testers did not flog the vehicles.


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    James

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (4:54 pm)

    Dave – Phoenix: I remember a lot of discussions in the early Volt days, where a lot of folks expressed the desire for a lower priced Volt (around $25K) that only got 20 miles range.

    The Prius Prime matches that almost exactly. $28K and a 25 mile AER…

    Hmmmm……

    Now if they’d only make one that seats 5 and goes 50-60 miles on a charge!

    I’d pay the difference.

    Oh wait! There is already a car that does that – it’s a Volt!


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (5:03 pm)

    Fugly!


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    Dave - Phoenix

     

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (5:04 pm)

    James: Yes! Exactly. Plus 1

    Took the words right out of my mouth. If the contest was between gen 1 Volt and Prime,
    the Volt still wins!

    They both have lousy user interfaces/center stack – and 4 seats, but the Volt
    gets the full tax credit and it’s not hard in mild weather to get 45 miles AER and an
    honest 40 MPG in CS mode.

    A pretty weak contender from Toyota – 6 years after Volt 1.0!

    The reason I know John hasn’t driven any Volt is that he never talks about
    acceleration. Man – the difference between Volt 1.0 and Prius is vast. The Volt just
    goes, and the Prius just lies there. Toyota had to improve it somewhat. Still,
    the Volt 2.0 walks off and leaves Prime in the dust , and you can’t seat your
    kid’s friend on a cupholder.

    Agree on all counts if the Volt and Prime were the same price

    But, with a sub-$28K price tag, the Prime is 20% cheaper, and priced in a range with other main stream vehicles. That is significant when it comes to generating sales volume.

    As much as I like the Volt, I think Toyota will have success with the Prime, and price is the main reason.


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    Eco_Turbo

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (6:20 pm)

    Prius buyers probably are not able to grasp the concept of plugging in. Pity that once they figure it out it’s too late. They already own a car that gives them very little for their effort.


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    Eco_Turbo

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (6:34 pm)

    I rented a Prius once and drove it the same way I drive the Chargers I usually rent. Still haven’t seen a Volt for rent anywhere. Anyway, when I returned the Prius, after driving to a town 80 miles away and never going over the speed limit, the average MPG was 18 point something. I usually return Chargers with an average MPG in the 20s, and have a LOT more fun.


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (6:58 pm)

    Dave – Phoenix: Agree on all counts if the Volt and Prime were the same price

    But, with a sub-$28K price tag, the Prime is 20% cheaper, and priced in a range with other main stream vehicles. That is significant when it comes to generating sales volume.

    As much as I like the Volt, I think Toyota will have success with the Prime, and price is the main reason.

    There is the option of a used Volt.

    They’re literally giving them away right now. $14 – $17,000 is not unusual for a 2014-15.

    Fleet off-lease Volts are even better, if you aren’t looking
    for leather seats. Fleet Volts often have little or no electric
    miles. Their companies bought them because they were
    subsidized, but the electricity wasn’t, so they gave the
    employees gas cards, which were subsidized!

    It’s a wild, weird world!

    Compared to a $29,000 Prime, I’d roll with the used Volt.


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    Steve

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    Apr 19th, 2017 (7:05 pm)

    Dave – Phoenix: Agree on all counts if the Volt and Prime were the same price

    But, with a sub-$28K price tag, the Prime is 20% cheaper, and priced in a range with other main stream vehicles. That is significant when it comes to generating sales volume.

    As much as I like the Volt, I think Toyota will have success with the Prime, and price is the main reason.

    Sure, for some the Prime is a perfectly reasonable choice. I spoke to a new owner recently. He said 25 miles electric range was OK because he really doesn’t drive too far. I don’t think he made a bad choice. I just think the Volt was a better choice for me in 2014. The 2014 Volt is still a better choice for me in 2017.


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (7:14 pm)

    Dave – Phoenix: We can fool ourselves all we want, but the Prius Prime is priced to sell and the Volt is not…

    The biggest problem with the Volt: No lower trim available!

    Look at the Chevy Cruze.

    L MANUAL $17,850
    LS MANUAL $19,400
    LS AUTOMATIC $20,400
    LT MANUAL $21,025
    LT AUTOMATIC $22,325
    Includes LS content, plus the following additions or replacements:
    16-inch alloy wheels
    PREMIER AUTOMATIC $24,350
    Includes LT content, plus the following additions or replacements:
    17-inch alloy wheels…

    To get a Chevy Cruze trim that’s even close to the Volt, you have to spend $24,350.

    Meanwhile, a Chevy Volt is $26,595 after the tax credit, and that includes:
    – LED low-beam headlamps
    – Center 8″ diagonal color touch-screen
    – Roof-mounted antenna, shark-fin type
    – etc., etc., etc.

    In other words, the devil is in the details. After the tax credit, accounting for trim options, the Volt is an extremely good deal. But nobody knows it!

    Or to put it another way, as I’ve said many times before, GM is stupid for not offering the Volt at a lower trim level. The base level Volt is already a luxury vehicle, but most people are price comparing it to a stripped down competitor, and not knowing the difference!

    With this in mind, GM should offer the Volt in a similar stripped down model, under $30K, with 16″ steel wheels, a 4.3″ center screen, no leather wrapped steering wheel, etc., etc.. Of course, most people will buy the higher trim level, but that’s the game. It’s a shame GM is not playing the game with the Volt!


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (8:48 pm)

    Mark Z:
    Just one look, is all it took.

    There’s an old 60″s song in there somewhere:)
    +1


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (9:42 pm)

    George S. Bower: There’s an old 60″s song in there somewhere:)
    +1

    I remember it well, humming the tune as I typed.

    OT: 2017 90D in service. 2012 P85 drives great; superior value!


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (9:56 pm)

    Mark Z: P85 drives great; superior value!

    2012 #1682 still charges to 253 miles.

    Screaming deal @ 50 K out the door tax and license!!


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (10:09 pm)

    George S. Bower: Screaming deal @ 50 K out the door tax and license

    And the shoulder belt fits with a wider/flatter seat back.

    So much to love with an original Model S.


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (10:52 pm)

    George S. Bower: 2012 #1682 still charges to 253 miles.

    Screaming deal @ 50 K out the door tax and license!!

    Did you buy your S through Tesla’s certified used car program?


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (10:57 pm)

    Dave G,

    Forget that game –

    GM – try looking at your dealer network’s ads on Cars.com, KBB.com and all others.

    My local dealer too – advertises Volt at “40 MPG City 42 HWY”… This has been a
    problem all along, with gens 1 and 2.

    Put yourself in a non-early adopter, non-car guy role. Say you’re a woman
    who heard about the Volt and is also interested in other hybrids. She sees
    “42 MPG” and that’s it – thinks, “$44,000 for THAT?!!!”

    Volt and GM – there are problems on MANY fronts. Plainly, it’s not marketed
    as a product they really care about selling many of.


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (11:05 pm)

    George S. Bower: 2012 #1682 still charges to 253 miles.

    Screaming deal @ 50 K out the door tax and license!!

    I’m tellin’ ya George and Mark – I’m really up in the air as to how to replace our Prius.

    I’ve got Pacifica Hybrid rolling around in my brain – yes, it’s an FCA with those
    inherent reliability questions – but before Volt, I would never have imagined buying
    a GM product!

    Model 3 is tops on my list, but there are 400,000+ people in line ahead of me and
    I need to buy a car this year. A Bolt EV lease is tempting, but leasing is something
    I have never done. I’d rather take the tax credit while I can.

    This whittles things down to a used Model S, where no tax credit applies, or a new
    Volt.

    The Volt keeps rising to the top as it has no range anxiety or public charging complications
    and yet they don’t keep their value.

    Sigh – This is getting harrrrrd.

    I have a picture of that flat silver Model 3 on my desktop. What a cool car to own. Sure
    wish it had a hatch. Wish it didn’t have that looming Tesla early
    niggles situation they’ve had. Wish I could get one sooner than 2 or 3 years out.

    A used 75 or 90D is just above what I want to spend on a car.

    There are choices out there – just a whole lot of very confusing choices. No car
    I mention totally meets all my needs. The Bolt EV comes close – wish it had
    ACC as my wife is a freeway-a-phobe, and that feature would change her life.
    She drives everywhere on backroads! Bolt EV is also a bit small for our needs,
    while Model S is a bit too large. Pacifica Hybrid is big, but workable.

    Oddly, this week I have been looking more favorably at the Pacifica Hybrid.
    Sure, I wish it had more than 30 miles AER…But it checks a lot of boxes.

    Resale of used Model S seem strong. This is one factor that keeps rattling
    around my brain. That and the prospect of obtaining free lifetime charging…


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    Apr 19th, 2017 (11:18 pm)

    After making a Thomas Jefferson list of every car I mentioned here –
    and a couple ( Ioniq PHEV ) I haven’t…

    It may be a lease on an ACC-equipped Volt – and then, after that – looking at where
    Model 3 is at that point, and consider buying a used gen 2 Volt, which
    surely will be very handsomely priced at that time – where the then-gone
    tax credit won’t be a consideration anyway….

    What do you think?


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    Apr 20th, 2017 (3:24 pm)

    George S. Bower: There’s an old 60″s song in there somewhere:)
    +1

    Linda Rondstat


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    Mary Rolf

     

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    Apr 24th, 2017 (5:06 am)

    The volt is better in almost everthing!
    Especially when we compare it to one of the ugliest cars on earth!
    http://www.247collisioncare.com/