Feb 14

Nissan Leaf Spy Shots Show Similarities to IDS Concept

 

By Jon LeSage

While the longer-range second-generation Nissan Leaf launch date remains clouded in mystery, a spy photo gallery may shed more light on the subject.

Autoblog just published spy shots of a camouflaged Leaf with a Michigan license plate being driven and viewed from all angles. The overall size and shape are close to the current Leaf all-electric car, but several changes appear to have been made.

As reported in Autoblog, the Nissan IDS electric concept car design appears to have spilled over to the next-generation Leaf. The revised Leaf looks like it will share a few elements including roof, angular headlights and taillights, and similar side angles. It may also look like a smaller version of the Nissan Murano crossover.

The Nissan IDS concept was shown at the Tokyo motor show in fall 2015.

The front end of the second-generation Leaf is being revised, with the futuristic headlights being toned down, smaller and less vertical than the current Leaf. The Leaf’s rear angle looks more aggressive with a large spoiler.

Nissan IDS ConceptThe IDS concept is supposed to come with a 60 kilowatt-hour battery pack that could carry the IDS up to 200 miles per charge; and would be twice the size of the current Leaf battery. The Nissan Leaf and its battery, which could come out as a 2018 model year vehicle, have been the subject of differing predictions, varying from 140 miles to 186. The current Leaf can travel up to 107 miles on a charge.

During a keynote speech at Consumer Electronics Show in January, CEO Carlos Ghosn said that a second-generation Leaf is coming “in the near future,” though he gave no information regarding driving range or a date and model year. He did focus on the Leaf coming with Nissan’s ProPilot autonomous driving technology.

“The model will be equipped with ProPilot technology, enabling autonomous drive functionality for single-lane highway driving,” Ghosn said.

SEE ALSO:  Nissan IDS Concept Foreshadows 60-kWh Next-Generation Leaf

While Leaf sales continue to fall in rank in the U.S., global sales have been solid.

According to a HybridCars.com report, the Tesla Model S finished first in global sales last year with 50,931 units sold. The Leaf came in at a close second with 49,220 units sold, far ahead of the other vehicles on the list.

As far as sales are concerned, Nissan does have a good reason for launching the second-generation Leaf.

Autoblog, HybridCars.com

This entry was posted on Tuesday, February 14th, 2017 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

COMMENTS: 38


  1. 1
    Mark Z

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (6:07 am)

    Improvement on the Leaf design is always appreciated. More rear seat legroom than the BOLT would be excellent. Maybe Nissan will surprise everyone with additional range beyond Bolt and feature a liquid cooled battery. Having ProPilot would be a major plus, especially in stop and go traffic.

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    Dave86

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (6:28 am)

    Google search: autoblog Nissan leaf spy

    Limit search to last week and look at “images”

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  3. 3
    bro1999

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (7:09 am)

    The Leaf 2.0 is supposed to be coming out by the end of the year, right? Surprising to see the camo Leaf 2.0 uses the same doors as the 1.0. Makes me think it isn’t actually a total revamp, but rather more of a 1.5 Gen update? That would be disappointing.

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    Dave G

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (7:27 am)

    Hopefully they’ll move to a liquid cooled battery.

    The current Leaf’s air-cooling is insufficient for hotter climates.
    http://www.plugincars.com/arizona-leaf-owners-selling-no-longer-option-124510.html

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    john1701a

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (8:00 am)

    Dave G: The current Leaf’s air-cooling is insufficient for hotter climates.

    September 22, 2012 isn’t remotely “current” from any perspective. That article has been called out as greenwashing material for being so outdated.

    Leaf batteries were upgraded mid-cycle, greatly improving their resilience to heat.

    We know the batteries will upgraded again (chemistry & construction improvements) with Leaf gen-2 rollout too. We also already know they will be air-cooled.

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  6. 6
    Jim I

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (8:01 am)

    I am not seeing as much of the concept car in those spy shots.

    Too bad. I would really like to see a sporty looking electric.

    Still have a Bolt in my future!

    Jim – C-5277

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    Kdawg

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (8:26 am)

    To me, whatever is below the coverings, looks more like this rendering than the IDS concept.

    Leafrender_zpsn7lh5yfu.jpg

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    john1701a

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (8:40 am)

    With respect to design, there’s the big issue of production cost.

    For EV to be directly competitive with traditional vehicles, it must have a closer MSRP and no dependence on tax-credit subsidies.

    Not requiring liquid is a way of cutting cost. It reduces complexity too. That’s good for reliability. It’s the advantage of going electric. For example, electric power-steering doesn’t have liquid. It doesn’t have a belt either. That’s a clear simplicity improvement, as well as a cost reduction.

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  9. 9
    James

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (9:02 am)

    09203_4-av_nissan_micra.jpg

    This is the Nissan Micra. Sold overseas. Scale this car up one notch
    to compact from the subcompact Micra and you’re very close to what the LEAF under black wrap and gorilla tape will look like.

    The nose will be solid ( the charge door still located in nearly the same spot ), and instead of bugeye headlights on the current LEAF to guide airflow around the side mirrors, see the “wings” that flow up from the leading edges on each side of the hood to the A pillar. This is more IDS than Micra. But the rest, including form factor is all Micra.

    Odd thing is – the test mule looks to have exactly the same dimensions ( wheelbase, height, width ) as the current LEAF – making it look much the redo – rather than complete redesign. We can see, however, that all the body panels are brand new.

    I’m thinking air-cooled ( sadly, again ) battery pack in more than one size. Say a 125 mile pack and a high end 225 mile pack.

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  10. 10
    George S. Bower

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (9:12 am)

    Kdawg:
    To me, whatever is below the coverings, looks more like this rendering than the IDS concept.

    good find kdawg.

    IMO new Leaf will be lower price than BoltEV and probably with lower range. Smaller battery and air cooling will make for lower price point so that is good IMO. …price wise, not cooling wise.
    It will also be on a slightly longer wheelbase than the BoltEV and might feel a bit more roomy inside than the Bolt.

    So I bet it sells rather well.

    I would not have one in Az though because of inferior battery cooling. As usual GM has a better power train.

    Still very happy with my 2012 Tesla Model S. It continues to be our main car. It makes regular trips down to Phx and up to Payson. I would not have an EV with less range.

    Also will probably not jump on one of the first Model 3’s. Perhaps step up to another Model S only a 2014…first year for auto pilot.

    Mark Z:
    More rear seat legroom than the BOLT would be excellent.

    john1701a: We also already know they will be air-cooled.

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  11. 11
    American First

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (9:13 am)

    Nisssan is late to the new EV party. By the time the new Leaf is available, the Chevy Bolt EV has taken up that market. And I don’t believe that a “cheaper” Leaf against the Bolt EV will sell better, because quality and quantity has its price, and true BEV believers (just llike Tesla buyers) will pay whatever to get the best EV possible.

    If the new Leaf doesn’t use an active battery cooling, such as the liquid cooled Model S and Bolt EV, or the forced air cooled Fusion and C-max Energis, they will have the same temperature restricted battery conditions and unhappy customers.

    I also see that Nissan is copying Toyota’s practice for the most ugly EV, so who will win THAT award?

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  12. 12
    James

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (9:26 am)

    There’s one picture where the LEAF 2 grillework is really visible. Very complicated ( busy ) and not as sleek as Kdawg’s rendering or my picture of the Micra. It definately has that dual swoop face
    that is all the rage over at Nissan. The headlights look closer to the Micra’s long, angled ones. Also has the requisite for today black “floating” C-pillar. That overused trend is getting really old to me already. The taillight seems to run from one side all across the back hatch to the other side – like a light bar. This is closer to the IDS Concept design. It seems the IDS being low-slung and wide, it works — But in the narrower, taller LEAF — not so much. It’ll be interesting to see how they pull it off.

    So glad to see a 2nd gen LEAF is truly in the pipeline. I was beginning to wonder! The more
    EVs the merrier! This means true competition and choice for the consumer. A whole crop of affordable-ish 200 milers is good for everyone! Bolt EV vs. LEAF may be a great rivalry.

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  13. 13
    Randy

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (9:35 am)

    Im puzzled by the leaf having the No 2 spot with its clearly inferior battery technology and it poor range. Never was even close to the volt in value and functionality and is clearly not even a distant second to the new bolt. Is it americas love affair with all things foreign, that everything that comes out of japan ,must somehow be better ? I know they are now produced here(with imported parts) but still subpar compared to GMs offerings.

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  14. 14
    Mechanic Milwaukie OR

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (9:40 am)

    really nice and informative screenshots. I like its new design. this model is rocking 2017

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  15. 15
    Loboc

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (9:45 am)

    James: Bolt EV vs. LEAF may be a great rivalry.

    This is going to be fun to watch. Especially with variants like Ampera-E and the hints from Mary for other vehicles based on Bolt.

    Get the Bud Light and Popcorn. Time for a good show!

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    john1701a

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (10:16 am)

    American First: Nisssan is late to the new EV party. By the time the new Leaf is available, the Chevy Bolt EV has taken up that market. And I don’t believe that a “cheaper” Leaf against the Bolt EV will sell better, because quality and quantity has its price, and true BEV believers (just llike Tesla buyers) will pay whatever to get the best EV possible.

    Late to what? Which market? The acceptance of EV by ordinary traditional buyers hasn’t happened yet. We’re still trying to get out of the low-hanging-fruit stage. Reaching beyond early adopters is still just a hope… realistic, but clearly some time in the future still.

    Once sales occur without any tax-credit subsidies, that milestone will be reached. Until then, it’s just enthusiasts helping to prove the technology is worthy for the masses.

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  17. 17
    Kdawg

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (10:37 am)

    George S. Bower: So I bet it sells rather well.

    From what I read, it will still use Chademo. This surprises me since CCS is growing in the US, and Renault is switching to CCS.

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  18. 18
    Jim Seko

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (11:06 am)

    The production Leaf will probably look uglier than the artist’s renderings we’ve seen. That’s how Nissan rolls.

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  19. 19
    Jackson

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (11:29 am)

    American First: I also see that Nissan is copying Toyota’s practice for the most ugly EV, so who will win THAT award?

    What Toyota EV? Well, I guess there’s the RAV4 EV, availability limited.

    I never thought I’d come to think of the original LEAF as “attractive.”

    😀

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    larry4pyro

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (11:40 am)

    Everything I’ve read recently seems to assume the next generation of EVs have to have a range of at least 200 miles. I don’t agree. I think there is a huge market for small urban EV that is only intended to satisfy 90% of most people’s driving, like commuting to work and running errands. So instead of 200+ mile EV selling in the $35k-$40K range, I think there is a market for an austere EV urban runabout with a 100+ mile range in the $25K-$30k range.

    In regards to the possibility of a battery thermal management, I remember reading a comment from a Nissan engineer who said one big consideration against it was the space it consumed. The Gen 1 Leaf is based on the Versa, liquid cooling made the back seat much smaller. A significantly larger battery and liquid cooling probably means a new dedicated platform needs to be designed and built for the next Leaf.

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  21. 21
    Jackson

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (11:45 am)

    larry4pyro: Everything I’ve read recently seems to assume the next generation of EVs have to have a range of at least 200 miles. I don’t agree. I think there is a huge market for small urban EV that is only intended to satisfy 90% of most people’s driving, like commuting to work and running errands. So instead of 200+ mile EV selling in the $35k-$40K range, I think there is a market for an austere EV urban runabout with a 100+ mile range in the $25K-$30k range.

    Whatever happens, there will always be a market for golf carts.

    😛

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  22. 22
    Upnorth QC

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (11:58 am)

    A new platform with new battery maker: Panasonic who signed a contract with Nissan to replace the actual battery maker. It’s about sure that the new battery will be made at the giga factory Tesla/Panasonic. These batteries require a cooling method. They should copy the system used by Tesla. M.Musk said their patents are open.

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  23. 23
    john1701a

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (12:12 pm)

    Upnorth QC: These batteries require a cooling method.

    Do you know specific battery chemistry ?

    Actively pushing cooled air through the pack is a cooling method, btw.

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  24. 24
    George S. Bower

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (12:16 pm)

    john1701a:

    Actively pushing cooled air through the pack is a cooling method, btw.

    The gen 1 Leaf battery didn’t push air through the pack. It was, in essence a sealed can. I believe it had some fans inside the sealed case to equalize temps though.

    Do you have a link that shows that the new pack actually moves air thru the pack?

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  25. 25
    George S. Bower

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (12:18 pm)

    Upnorth QC:
    It’s about sure that the new battery will be made at the giga factory Tesla/Panasonic.

    Huh?
    Do you have a link that supports that statement. I seriously doubt the Tesla giga factory will supply the batteries for Nissan.

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  26. 26
    Kdawg

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (12:47 pm)

    larry4pyro: I think there is a huge market for small urban EV that is only intended to satisfy 90% of most people’s driving, like commuting to work and running errands. So instead of 200+ mile EV selling in the $35k-$40K range, I think there is a market for an austere EV urban runabout with a 100+ mile range in the $25K-$30k range.

    Well the Ioniq pricing just came out. It’s a 124 mile BEV. For the base model it’s $29,500 + $835 destination fee. It will be interesting to see where the 2nd Gen Leaf is priced. Also note at 136 MPGe, the Ioniq is the most efficient plugin out there.

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  27. 27
    Kdawg

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (1:04 pm)

    OT: There’s talks about GM dumping Opel. I wonder what this would mean to the Ampera-E? The investors must like the news because GM stock is up 5%.

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  28. 28
    George S. Bower

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (1:12 pm)

    Kdawg:
    OT: There’s talks about GM dumping Opel.I wonder what this would mean to the Ampera-E?The investors must like the news because GM stock is up 5%.

    “French car maker Groupe PSA SA on Tuesday said it is in talks to buy Opel from GM. GM confirmed those talks in a statement.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/ditching-opel-is-next-step-in-gm-ceos-profit-drive-1487083422

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  29. 29
    DonC

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (2:12 pm)

    john1701a: Do you know specific battery chemistry ?
    Actively pushing cooled air through the pack is a cooling method, btw.

    We know the existing chemistry is inferior to that used by LG Chem because Ghosn has more or less said that. Who knows, Nissan has clearly wanted to move to LG Chem but would have to write off all its battery investment by doing that. We also know, as George told you, that Nissan doesn’t push air or anything else through the battery pack. It’s as he said — a sealed can.

    TMS is a big deal. Not having one saves money at the cost of shortening the battery life. It’s just a fact of life.

    George S. Bower: Do you have a link that supports that statement. I seriously doubt the Tesla giga factory will supply the batteries for Nissan.

    Ridiculous actually.

    George S. Bower: “French car maker Groupe PSA SA on Tuesday said it is in talks to buy Opel from GM. GM confirmed those talks in a statement.”

    I know GM would love to keep the engineering. The actual company not so much.

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  30. 30
    dakster

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (2:17 pm)

    Kdawg: Well the Ioniq pricing just came out.It’s a 124 mile BEV.For the base model it’s $29,500 + $835 destination fee. It will be interesting to see where the 2nd Gen Leaf is priced.Also note at 136 MPGe, the Ioniq is the most efficient plugin out there.

    There’s larry4pyro’s lower range and price BEV… Since I lose 50%-60% of range due to cold temp, I can’t see ever having a sub-200 mile BEV. At least that was our experience with the Volt and the Volt would ERDTT to help keep the car warm.

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  31. 31
    DonC

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (2:23 pm)

    dakster: At least that was our experience with the Volt and the Volt would ERDTT to help keep the car warm.

    Actually it runs so the defroster can clear the windshield in the allotted time. This is why the engine ran at low RPMs and wouldn’t rev up to power the Volt. But yes, having an engine provide heat can avoid using a huge amount of energy.

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  32. 32
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (3:30 pm)

    Liquid cooling is 20 times more effective than air cooling, that is, of course, if the different states of matter (air versus liquid) are at the same temperature.

    But, as most people know, there are those occasional Summers with extreme high temperatures above 100 degrees, as has occurred in Texas in the Summer of 2011, when there were more than 90 days above 100 degrees.

    ***This was the equivalent of FOUR average number of above 100 degree days Summers, in which “historically” only 23 days above 100 degrees generally occur!!***

    *** So, the heat degradation rate for the Summer of 2011 was in fact, equivalent to 4 Summers!***
    This was proven in Newprocess analytics confirmations for all vehicular 12 Volt analog system measures which we utilize.
    It was a record year thereafter for head gaskets blown, exhaust systems cracked, and other ICE systems wearing out prematurely (except in GM vehicles, which were astonishingly unaffected, right across the board regarding GM vehicles ONLY!!)

    The far, far better system by a light year at relatively close MSRP cost, of course, if comparing Volt to Leaf, has the Volt winning with its 360 Volt electric compressor refrigeration system to keep those prismatic cells perfectly comfortable (as scanned in operations monitoring) of those 9 groups of 32 cells in each, chilled Dexcooled sections.

    The climate had hit the “hockey stick” fast-uptrend for temperature conditions 6 years ago, and working conditions for the battery will only become more severe.
    This is another of many, many, many reasons why we chose Volt,…….by a light year!

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  33. 33
    Dave G

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (7:29 pm)

    What other BEVs use air cooling besides the Leaf?

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  34. 34
    john1701a

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (8:24 pm)

    George S. Bower: The gen 1 Leaf battery didn’t push air through the pack. It was, in essence a sealed can. I believe it had some fans inside the sealed case to equalize temps though.

    Do you have a link that shows that the new pack actually moves air thru the pack?

    No link, just the statement about not using liquid, along with the heightened awareness of efforts to improve through chemistry of the battery itself.

    It does beg the question of what all the other automakers will do. The lithium polymer as a choice for Hyundai’s hybrid Sonata was always an odd one. VW was said to have switched from liquid to air, but who knows what will follow eGolf. Smart likely won’t bother with liquid. Ford has been standoff’ish about production in general…

    Some of it could just come down to packaging. The sealed can was obviously not a good idea. But if you aren’t trying to squeeze cells in tightly, actively blowing cooled air through the pack would be effective. Remember the “D” packaging ages ago? Going to prismatic was a huge improvement.

    There can be some software protections too. Restricting capacity & rate when the battery is stressed by heat is big plus. Forcing cooled air through the pack while parked is realistic too.

    Put it this way, stuff like we are discussing now is overwhelming evidence that the vehicles are still in the early adopter phase. Concern will fade away as the tech matures.

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  35. 35
    john1701a

     

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    Feb 14th, 2017 (8:36 pm)

    Kdawg: For the base model it’s $29,500 + $835 destination fee.

    Another automaker striving to reach the masses with an under $30K price.

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  36. 36
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

     

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    Feb 15th, 2017 (6:15 am)

    Air cooling is totally inferior, because the mass density of air looses its endothermic capability very prematurely;
    1. On it’s way to the pack,
    2. After exposure to the first few cells within a pack,
    3. After high latent heat build deeply within each cell.
    4. During “heat soak” periods when the vehicle is stopped.

    OEM’s that use air do not have intent for longevity.
    Their business plan has a 5 year realistic life when range falls off unacceptably.
    So, you can’t get ahead of the payment game by a few years, which is the time period especially when the prosperity kicks in.

    In hot climates of the South, an advertised 105 miles becomes 60 miles ER @58 mph, with HVAC, and that is when it is new.

    By the fourth Summer, it could be down to under 40 miles under the same need demands, then you’re stuck with it, because the buyer didn’t demand liquid cooling, and the vehicle isn’t really adequately usable anymore.

    Inferiority uses “alternative facts” with the delusion that “it’s all good”, when the informed buyer knows it’s not good enough.

    Air cooling becomes a waste of all that technology.
    Sad indeed.

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  37. 37
    john1701a

     

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    Feb 15th, 2017 (8:51 am)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College: Air cooling is totally inferior

    Vastly superior has transformed to totally inferior.

    ugh

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  38. 38
    Dave / Warranty Extender

     

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    Feb 17th, 2017 (7:32 am)

    There’s been a recent breakthrough in batteries that could yield major benefits to electric vehicles which involve nanowires and a gel-like substance. There’s more science to it than I make it sound but they’ve run these batteries through 200 000+ charge cycles without any wear and tear. Compare that to current batteries that only last up to around 7000 cycles.

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