Jan 05

Chevy Bolt Sales Begin; Volt Smashes Sales Records

 

Volt_bolt-668x409-668x409

December was a very good month in the history of Chevrolet’s plug-in electrified cars.

The last month of the year witnessed release of the first 579 Bolt EVs in Oregon and California and the extended-range electric Volt’s 3,691 sales smashed its all-time 3,351-unit sales record and set a calendar year record of 24,739 sales.

Previously, the Volt’s best years on record were 2012 and 2013 in which it finished within a few hundred units of each other with 23,000 and some.

As for the Bolt, the car is all new, and demand was pre-pressurized in the hottest plug-in market of the country, California. Chevrolet did not break out sales for Oregon and California, but 579 units did beat expectations and a subjective feeling among forum posters that GM was dragging its heels in getting Bolts into owners hands.

2017-chevrolet-bolt21-668x409-668x409

Back to the Volt story, this year its sales from January through November amounted to 21,048 units and given it has hovered around the 2,000 monthly unit mark for several months, odds were not great it would beat the 23,461 record from 2012.

According to analyst Alan Baum, Chevrolet most likely goosed sales as much as it could so it would end the year with a positive bang. On the flip-side, the carmaker may not have wanted to face stories that its all-new redesigned Volt could not even beat the sales performance of the first-generation in the midst of anti-Volt sentiment in 2012 politics.

How Chevrolet stimulated sales however is not exactly clear as its published incentives are not exceptional at $1,000 back or 0-5.9-percent APR, but manufacturers have other ways to incentivize their dealers when they want to move inventory.

Volt production this year of more than 30,000 units. Production numbers for second half: June: 3,900;, July: 2,700; August: 3,000; Sept./Oct.” 3,000; Nov: 2,700. This well exceeded sales of maybe a couple thousand a month, indicating GM was setting the stage for more sales if it could get them.

Volt production this year of more than 30,000 units. Production numbers for second half: June: 3,900;, July: 2,700; August: 3,000; Sept./Oct.” 3,000; Nov: 2,700. This well exceeded sales of maybe a couple thousand a month, indicating GM was setting the stage for more sales if it could get them.

GM otherwise reported a terrific month for the Chevrolet brand, and the Volt (and Bolt) rode that wave, plus December is the biggest month for plug-in sales. In January, tax season begins, allowing those eligible for federal credits to recoup their expense.

As such, December sales are always stimulated just by that fact, and Chevrolet was otherwise motivated to build synergies to push the Volt to a new sales high.

And that it did. Its 3,691 sales far eclipses any precedent to date. The next-best 3,351 units sold in August 2013 were a veritable outlier, the only other time it sold over 3,000 units.

Next best on record was October 2012 with 2,961 sales, followed by September 2012 and 2,851 sales, and August 2012 with 2,831.

This year‘s best was November’s 2,531 Volt sales, but regardless how it got there, a win is a win.

The Volt thus came from behind and made for a happy new year for its maker and getting a healthy dollop of Bolts out the door was a cherry on top.

For its part, Chevrolet attributed sales to natural demand, and sufficient supply – as Baum also noted was available.

“2016 was the first year of nationwide availability for the second generation Volt,” said Kathy Beslic, advertising and marketing manager, Chevrolet Electric Vehicle, “and Chevrolet stores had December inventory appropriate to meet strong demand for Volt, a car whose innovation, technologically-advanced powertrain and great design along with the growing acceptance of EVs make it an alluring choice for customers.”

The Volt and Bolt will now compete for consumer mindshare this year, as the Bolt’s 238 miles range on battery alone far surpasses the present leader, the Nissan’s Leaf, and its 107 miles.

Not to be forgotten is Tesla’s Model 3. With over 400,000 pre-orders, this is also quite the incentive to hold back for some buyers, if not all. Some financial analysts disbelieve Tesla will even release it in 2017 as promised. For his part, Alan Baum projects first deliveries by October, and 5,000 sales this year.

Not to be forgotten is Tesla’s Model 3. With over 400,000 pre-orders, this is also quite the incentive to hold back for some buyers, if not all. Some financial analysts disbelieve Tesla will even release it in 2017 as promised. For his part, Alan Baum projects first deliveries by October, and 5,000 sales this year.

The Bolt’s range also means a lot less EV “range anxiety” for whom this may be a concern, and it answers one of the reasons why the Volt has a gas engine to take it beyond the 53 miles range it has.

What Makes More Sense – Chevy Volt or Bolt?

This said, there is a market for each, and while opinions will vary, each are the leaders in their respective segment. The Bolt has the highest range for the dollar, and the Volt is the sales-leading plug-in hybrid with far more range than blended plug-in hybrids from Ford, Hyundai, Kia, and Toyota who provide EV range in the low to high 20s.

How the Volt and Bolt will fare sales-wise this year is however an open question. The Bolt is yet early in its lifecycle, thus not up to full speed, though Chevy dealers likely will fill many pre-orders for some time. It is to roll out through the first half of the year to the rest of the U.S., and Baum has projected 23,000 or so sales for 2017.

But could there be an upset? There was one last month, perhaps more will follow and the cars might break past previous highs?

The bottom line answer as always is time will tell.

HybridCars.com

This entry was posted on Thursday, January 5th, 2017 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 78


  1. 1
    Mark Z

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (6:24 am)

    A shiny new Bolt was sitting at Connell Chevrolet in Costa Mesa during the oil change for the ICE SUV. My Volt salesman brought the keys out for a test drive! Great EV. I love the extra headroom during entry and there is plenty of legroom in the back if the seats are in a normal position. Seats were comfortable for me, cabin was quiet and the “L” mode gives both Tesla like regenerative braking and turns off the creep mode. Acceleration was brisk, but not perfectly smooth as the tires did spin with aggressive pedal push. For regular driving, I was satisfied.

    The only issue was turning on the wipers when shifting to reverse, as the wiper control is where the Tesla shifter is. Made me smile. Pushing the Start button to power up (and power down) the vehicle is a return to Volt like controls. The dash touchscreen and buttons/knobs offer great access to functions and the video rear view mirror is handy. I appreciated the lighted warnings on the outside mirrors when vehicles were nearby.

    I look forward to seeing many Bolts on the road soon. For those who love to have a 238 mile range every morning, they will be pleased. The Chevrolet Volt is still the best choice for a single vehicle EV owner, but for a gas-free commute vehicle or additional family drivers, the Bolt would be a great choice. Way to go, GM.


  2. 2
    Loboc

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (6:34 am)

    Bolt and Prime validate Volt. Sales, regardless of incentives, are up. Way up.

    Hang on for this ride!

    /interesting note: GM had sales of four plug-ins in December. More different models than anyone else.


  3. 3
    Dave G

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (6:52 am)

    It’s worth noting that, so far, GM has been very good on meeting their schedules.

    Volt Gen1 was released in 2010, as predicted. Volt Gen2 was released in 2015, as predicted.
    In both cases, within 6-8 months, they were available nation wide.

    With a 5-year refresh cycle, I expect we’ll see Volt Gen3 in 2020.

    The Bolt was released in 2016, as predicted, and should be available nation wide by this summer.

    By contrast, Tesla has always been late. Roadster, Model S, and Model X were all around 2 years late.

    What’s more, Musk is now admitting they don’t even intend to meet schedules.
    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103939_tesla-deadlines-arent-meant-to-be-met-musk-says-they-just-pressure-employees

    So anyone waiting for a Model 3 – be prepared to wait longer than expected…


  4. 4
    bro1999

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (7:13 am)

    I was one of the 579 Bolt sales! According to the Chevy survey I got, my official purchase date was 31 Dec 2016. Whew. 😉

    There were some crazy cheap Volt lease deals being shared last month. I read of one guy in CA (of course) that got a $35k ’17 Volt LT for <$200/month, *ZERO* down. And that's not even including the $700 Costco card he qualified for or the CA $1,500 PHEV rebate. All said and told, that guy got a brand new Volt lease for an effective $116/month. You should be driving a manual Nissan Sentra with no power windows/no radio for that kind of money.


  5. 5
    MnVikes

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (7:15 am)

    Great month GM with the Bolt and Volt.
    Hopefully we hear about an EREV SUV soon.
    It’s fun to watch this all roll out while I enjoy my MY13.

    My next purchase decision will be when GM approaches 200,000 units. Hopefully we see a change in the tax credit rule which extends this for GM and Tessa.

    I don’t know if we’ll ever see $4/gal gas again. With thousands every month converting to EV/EREV the demand will slowly fade.

    P.s. Mirai anyone? Lol.


  6. 6
    Dave G

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (7:26 am)

    Mark Z: The Chevrolet Volt is still the best choice for a single vehicle EV owner, but for a gas-free commute vehicle or additional family drivers, the Bolt would be a great choice.

    For most families, yes, the Bolt may be a great choice. For our family, not so much.

    I often need to travel long distances for work. My wife is a concert pianist, and she also frequently judges competitions. Many of these gigs aren’t close, so it’s not unusual that we’ll both be driving long distances on the same day.

    In addition, the rest of my family lives over 500 miles away, and when I visit them, I want to spend my time visiting, not eating in some out-of-the way place, waiting for my car to charge.

    The icing on the cake was Hurricane Sandy. We only lost power for 4 days, but many neighboring communities lost power for over 2 weeks. In that scenario, a pure BEV is useless. Even with home solar, 95% of the installations are grid-tied, so when the grid goes down, you lose power.


  7. 7
    Loboc

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (7:28 am)

    MnVikes,

    Lol. At less than 1% market share for plug-ins, there is pretty much zero effect on gasoline prices.

    Dave G,

    Can’t pump gas with no electricity either. It is more likely with nightly top-off that an EV would have more range than an ICE.


  8. 8
    MnVikes

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (7:50 am)

    Loboc:
    MnVikes,

    Lol. At less than 1% market share for plug-ins, there is pretty much zero effect on gasoline prices.

    Lol all you want, it’s my prediction. Thousands every month are converting and with only a handful of current options.

    And no I didn’t -1 you 🙂


  9. 9
    Kdawg

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (8:21 am)

    So much for all the talk about Bolt EV sales stealing Volt sales.

    bro1999,

    You should post those pics of your Bolt EV from your blog, here.

    Note Steve Wozniak (Woz) was also one of the first 579 buyers of a Bolt EV. He said it will be his daily driver.


  10. 10
    James

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (8:54 am)

    A Volt and Bolt EV in the same garage would be a nifty and smart combo.

    This second wave of electrification is putting all automakers in positions of having to have systems
    in place to ramp up their programs should Model 3 be timely and successful.
    Bolt EV shows everyone GM has game.

    Then there’s announcements like GM made last year about their E-Assist Voltec Silverado, and Ford’s big talk about a 300 mile utility SUV, F-150 Hybrids and electrified Mustangs. It’s all bizarre as Chevy will produce 500 E-Assist Silverados only for sale in California ….Hmmm…These trucks with a .45kwh lithium battery under the front console and claiming Voltec technology in the gearsets and battery management…Hmmm… With a 5.2L V-8 under the hood and such a tiny battery + a 13HP electric motor, we can’t expect much. GM claims a 13% MPG gain which would give that 2017 E-Assist Silverado about 20-22 MPG. We know Ford didn’t gain too many miles per gallon by going all-aluminum in their F-150 bodywork, so this must be GM’s “keepin’ it steel” but creepin’ up on F-150 with EcoBoost V-6 MPG move.

    http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/feb/0225-silverado-eAssist.html

    500 8-speed E-Assist Silverados to California only? Hello? GM? Are you smokin’ something?!! Build a freakin’ PHEV pickup truck and hand Ford an ultimatum to fight or fly! Mass produce ’em already! If it looks like a VIA and gets 40 miles all-electric, I’M IN!

    Will Ford do more? Will Ford mass produce non-ICE-converted products? They say they’re on track
    for 2020…A bunch of new electrified models… Is it smoke and mirrors?

    As I’ve claimed – Tesla is pulling this whole wagon forward. GM would never have built Bolt EV if
    it hadn’t been for Model 3, and look at the snarky words Mary Barra uses in public speeches about Tesla’s limited service areas, when it’s GM who is funding dealer association lawsuits to keep it that way. And look at the totally ballsy first 3 Bolt EV deliveries taking place at the Fremont, CA Chevy dealership!!! WOW!

    I am astonished how much Elon Musk has gotten into the Big Boys’ heads! I’m glad for it. I like seeing GM flex it’s muscles and put out a Bolt EV. Now they’re in it whether they like it or not. The Volt is selling WITHOUT ANY MAJOR AD CAMPAIGN!!! We shall have to wait and see if future Bolt EV sales do cut into Volt sales. It’ll take time to find out. Maybe it was big incentives from Detroit that got Volts moving late in the year…


  11. 11
    bro1999

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:01 am)

    Kdawg:
    So much for all the talk about Bolt EV sales stealing Volt sales.

    bro1999,

    You should post those pics of your Bolt EV from your blog, here.

    Note Steve Wozniak (Woz) was also one of the first 579 buyers of a Bolt EV.He said it will be his daily driver.

    I would if I knew how to. I can never seem to get images to appear properly on here.
    Woz got the same color as me! He got denied the first time (someone else reserved the Bolt he wanted. Lol), but I guess he tracked down another one. Arctic Blue Metallic seems to be his color of choice.

    Let’ see if this works…ugh, screw it. Here are the direct links.
    http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah20/bro19991/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_20170103-2121132_zpsx8xicj4a.png
    http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah20/bro19991/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_20170103-2121192_zpslaplprx5.png
    http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah20/bro19991/Mobile%20Uploads/download_20170103_211330_zpsu0obvojw.jpg
    http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah20/bro19991/Mobile%20Uploads/download_20170103_211327_zpsptdj2cro.jpg


  12. 12
    George S. Bower

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:06 am)

    Dave G:

    What’s more, Musk is now admitting they don’t even intend to meet schedules.

    To be fair he really insn’t admitting it now. That was 8 months ago.

    I doubt it will happen but IMO it is possible that we may see a few of the first Model 3’s go to a few customers on Dec 31, 2017.


  13. 13
    James

     

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:09 am)

    In Seattle, I have seen a few gen II Volts out there. Few and far between, but they aren’t as rare as a Sasquatch sighting now.

    This whacky, topsy-turvy world of the PLUG is fun to watch, indeed. I too am looking at that looming 200,000 unit tax refund cutoff to decide which way my next auto purchase is going to go. I’d be proud to have a Volt and Bolt EV in my garage.

    I am not an early-in-production kind of car buyer. I want these cars to get the bugs worked out. I am looking at the Pacifica Hybrid too. Chrysler’s Portal Concept Vehicle is interesting in many ways. I almost can’t believe the Pacifica with a plug even exists. In that, Chrysler has such a horrible reputation having 4 cars on Consumer Report’s latest “10 least reliable cars” list. That list includes the Grand Caravan – the predecessor to the Pacifica!

    This puts me in a place where I’m comparing a 30 mile PHEV large MPV van with sliding doors and removable seats ( very handy – very versatile for my family of 4 ) to a small subcompact crossover BEV that is sporty, spunky, mod and has a much better chance ( in my mind, at least, having had such great experience with my Volt ) of being reliable and trouble-free.
    Isn’t it crazy to be comparing a big van with a little crossover? It’s just the wide gaps in choices that linger in choosing a car that runs at least most of the time on electrons.


  14. 14
    George S. Bower

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:09 am)

    Of course this is great sales news!!

    Nice description of the BoltEV MarkZ.

    I was at the Toyota dealer getting my Uncle’s Matrix fixed and had to wait. I asked if they had any Primes and he said “I don’t think so”. Then I never heard another peep about it.


  15. 15
    bro1999

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:14 am)

    George S. Bower:

    I was at the Toyota dealer getting my Uncle’s Matrix fixed and had to wait. I asked if they had any Primes and he said “I don’t think so”. Then I never heard another peep about it.

    I’ve tried to look at the new Prius (and Prime) without letting my disdain for Toyota affect my judgment.

    I just CANNOT end up with any other conclusion besides UGLY. An ugly baby is an ugly baby, period. The Prime is SLIGHTLY less ugly, but that’s like putting a cute hat on an UGLY baby….it’s still ugly.

    I’ll admit the Bolt is no head-turner, but compared to a Prius it looks like a Ferrari.


  16. 16
    Tim Hart

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:15 am)

    An exciting time to be a EV enthusiast!


  17. 17
    James

     

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:15 am)

    George S. Bower:
    Of course this is great sales news!!

    Nice description of the BoltEV MarkZ.

    I was at the Toyota dealer getting my Uncle’s Matrix fixed and had to wait. I asked if they had any Primes and he said “I don’t think so”. Then I never heard another peep about it.

    I think the Prime makes Volt look so much better!

    There is the possibility on the table that Prius people looking for a new car in December looked at the Prime and drove down to the Chevy dealership just to compare to the Volt, AND BOUGHT ONE! Honestly, one look at 53+ miles all electric without all that silly shifting back-n-forth from gas to electric will change some minds. Plus it doesn’t hurt that the Prime looks like some kind of space-wagon and the Volt is contemporary and cool. And with Prime you can take grammie and gramps to the show, but you have to leave the toddler at home!*

    *Oh crud, I think I may have unknowingly just put blood in the water to attract Charlie and John! Oh No! On the plus side, it means 30 to 40 posts of back-and-forth over how great Toyota is – which ups the page views, but we all know the negatives…Hoo Boyee! 😮


  18. 18
    George S. Bower

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:24 am)

    James:

    500 8-speed E-Assist Silverados to California only? Hello? GM? Are you smokin’ something?!!

    If they were available in Arizona guess how many they would sell.

    Zero.

    IMO the only way to sell it is to make it standard equipment and bake the price into the basic truck. Nobody will pay extra for e-assist.


  19. 19
    Jim I

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:25 am)

    Dave G: For most families, yes, the Bolt may be a great choice.For our family, not so much.

    I often need to travel long distances for work.My wife is a concert pianist, and she also frequently judges competitions.Many of these gigs aren’t close, so it’s not unusual that we’ll both be driving long distances on the same day.

    In addition, the rest of my family lives over 500 miles away, and when I visit them, I want to spend my time visiting, not eating in some out-of-the way place, waiting for my car to charge.

    The icing on the cake was Hurricane Sandy.We only lost power for 4 days, but many neighboring communities lost power for over 2 weeks.In that scenario, a pure BEV is useless.Even with home solar, 95% of the installations are grid-tied, so when the grid goes down, you lose power.

    No one ever said the Volt or the Bolt or any other electrified vehicle was perfect for EVERY driver’s needs.

    I am sure the Chevrolet Suburban is an excellent vehicle. But I have no need for that behemoth, so I have never even looked inside of it.

    If you and your wife both drive long distances for your work and family requirements, then you are quite correct when you say the Bolt is not the vehicle for you.

    But that does not make the Bolt a faulty vehicle. It just means it won’t work for your family.

    Our personal needs are quite different, and after having driven a Volt of the past five+ years, I have much less range anxiety than I did when I bought it. For 99% of our driving needs, the Bolt would work perfectly for us. For the maybe one long driving trip we take every year or so, I could rent or swap vehicles with our daughter for a few days. Or maybe give on the road charging a try. That trip is not business related, and therefore we are not time constrained.

    And is it really fair to make an 8 – 10 year car purchase decision on a once in a lifetime weather or other type of catastrophic event? If that is the case, then none of us should buy any car, because what if next year OPEC decides to shut off 50+% of oil production? Then none of us would be driving! As I remember, the 1973 oil embargo was a 25% cut in oil production and it was not fun trying to drive around…..

    JMHO

    Jim – C-5277


  20. 20
    Kdawg

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:26 am)

    Here you go

    Screenshot_20170103-2121132_zpsx8xicj4a.png
    Screenshot_20170103-2121192_zpslaplprx5.png
    download_20170103_211330_zpsu0obvojw.jpg
    download_20170103_211327_zpsptdj2cro.jpg


  21. 21
    James

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:27 am)

    bro1999:
    The Prime is SLIGHTLY less ugly, but that’s like putting a cute hat on an UGLY baby….it’s still ugly.

    OMANNN…Did I laugh out loud at THAT ONE! L 🙂 L! +100

    Can’t wait ’til you get your hands on that shiny silver Bolt EV – We need driving impressions,
    likes and dislikes, surprises and those keen observations. Undoubtedly there will be some FWD burnouts in store!


  22. 22
    Dave - Phoenix

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:31 am)

    The plugin revolution is gaining momentum…..


  23. 23
    James

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:31 am)

    Kdawg,

    Did you happen to catch GM’s tease of the next-gen Chevy Trailblazer yesterday? It has the Bolt EV’s
    C pillar – down to the exact chrome piece up top – it’s just elongated on the longer CUV.


  24. 24
    bro1999

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:33 am)

    Kdawg:
    Here you go

    Ok, I tried copying the pre-formatted IMG link on Photobucket, but it doesn’t work. What am I doing wrong??
    And thanks!


  25. 25
    Dave - Phoenix

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:36 am)

    I don’t think we are at that tipping point for mass market EV adoption, but the scale is moving in that direction.

    We clearly have taken a step in the right direction.


  26. 26
    James

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:38 am)

    George S. Bower: If they were available in Arizona guess how many they would sell.

    Zero.

    IMO the only way to sell it is to make it standard equipment and bake the price into the basic truck. Nobody will pay extra for e-assist.

    From the Pressroom page at media.gm.com webpage:

    ________________________________________________________________________________

    “Initially, Chevrolet will offer approximately 500 Silverado eAssist trucks for the 2016 model year, exclusively through California dealers. Based on feedback from these initial customers, Chevrolet will adjust production for 2017 model year.”

    ________________________________________________________________________________

    I wonder what the feedback was – and how many sold?

    Now Ford says it’s gonna build a hybrid F-150!


  27. 27
    Dave - Phoenix

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:44 am)

    Jim I: And is it really fair to make an 8 – 10 year car purchase decision on a once in a lifetime weather or other type of catastrophic event?

    Fair or not. A lot of folks do….

    I had a friend who insisted on getting a 4WD drive option in his Explorer. It was an absolute deal breaker if it didn’t have it. He owned the Explorer for 7 years and never once did he put it in 4WD. (NOTE: We live in Phoenix where there is no snow. The 4WD was in case he took a road trip to a region with snow)

    How many folks have bought a truck so it could pull that 50-foot boat that they never bought?


  28. 28
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:46 am)

    All plug-ins will be critically helpful to grid security.

    It is very important for America to pause to understand what I am saying here.

    It is very important to not just gloss-over too quickly these easy-to-understand facts.

    It would be also very helpful if this particular post was forwarded up to policy makers.

    Grid security can be greatly enhanced with a type of logic I call

    **********************************
    * “Simplex load shed/pausing”‘ *
    **********************************

    This early stage of plug-in vehicle recharge-demand as a controllable baseload can be set up as a security adaptation designed-in nationally-orchestrated “pause/shed” capability to allow for greater controlling of grid irregularities. More rapid growth of plug-ins would help establish better grid security in this manner.

    In this sense, plug-ins vehicles should be reconsidered as a National Security Asset, and therefore, should continue to be at least incentivized continually as has been, or, even ***more*** incentivized when the utility has the option in its system and the vehicle’s system to pause or interrupt charging for grid conditioning.

    While of course, GM already has this function, as do other plug-ins,
    the purpose of this post is to increase awareness for policy makers that plug-ins incentivization
    ***is already***
    A necessary function of

    ******************************
    * National Security. *
    ******************************

    +1


  29. 29
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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:47 am)

    So how is it this game is going to be played?

    Ford: Announces it’s latest F-150 will have an all aluminum body and bed + EcoBoost V-6 = 20 MPG.

    GM: Announces it is building 500 e-Assist Silverados with V-8s, 8-speed autos and Voltec tech baked in – 20 MPG Combined.

    Ford: Announces yesterday it will build a F-150 Hybrid.

    GM: ( Future ) Announces it will up the battery size, e-motor and 9-speed auto in Silverado = 30 MPG.

    Ford: ( Future ) Announces I-4 EcoBoost F-150 Hybrid with larger battery pack = 31 MPG

    and on…and on…

    Meanwhile, VIA sits with a Silverado that gets 80-100 MPG, goes 40 miles all-electric, can act as a home power supply during power outages and run all your electric tools.


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    Taser54

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:55 am)

    Slightly a side topic: chargepoint has introduced a 400kw charging station. It will be available July 2017. I wonder if the Bolt will get an OTA update go raise it’s charging rate to a higher level? Obviously not 400kw, but how about 150kw?


  31. 31
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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:55 am)

    Dave – Phoenix: Fair or not. A lot of folks do….

    I had a friend who insisted on getting a 4WD drive option in his Explorer. It was an absolute deal breaker if it didn’t have it. He owned the Explorer for 7 years and never once did he put it in 4WD. (NOTE: We live in Phoenix where there is no snow. The 4WD was in case he took a road trip to a region with snow)

    How many folks have bought a truck so it could pull that 50-foot boat that they never bought?

    Marketers know that “what ifs” do sell tons and tons of cars.

    SUVs never go offroad, but AWD models outsell the 2WD models 3-1. How many lifted chrome and diamond plate road warrior pickup trucks have you seen this week alone? Do you think that guy spent $25,000 modifying his pickup to be that purty and go brush bombing in it?! Nope. Capability sells – We all are sometimes prey to buying the top-of-the-line ( I do it with electronics ) even though we know we won’t need that top graphics card and the Core i7 with huge SSD. When I commuted 25 miles each way on I-5, Washington State’s largest freeway – I used to see AWD trucks commuting daily – with guys in suits and ties driving them! It’s an image thing. “I can do this and that IF I ever wanted to!”….

    How many guys ever take their Camaros or Porsches to the track? Not many. BUT they could if they wanted to! 🙂

    In that – I think many of us would buy 1000-mile BEVs if we could swing it – even if we know we’ll never drive that far in a day. Just the thought of it – and I’m whippin’ out my wallet…Just driving and driving all the day longggg, not a care in the world – I think I’ll go to Mexico!

    HEY! George IS IN MEXICO! Dang it!


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (9:56 am)

    James: Meanwhile, VIA sits with a Silverado that gets 70MPGe, goes 40 miles all-electric, can act as a home power supply during power outages and run all your electric tools.

    Is VIA still in business?


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (10:03 am)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College:
    All plug-ins will be critically helpful to grid security.

    In this sense, plug-ins vehicles should be reconsidered as a National Security Asset, and therefore, should continue to be at least incentivized continually as has been, or, even ***more*** incentivized when the utility has the option in its system and the vehicle’s system to pause or interrupt charging for grid conditioning.

    Uhhh…OOOOOOOH KAYYYYYYYYYYY…….thaaaaats gonna fly in D.C., Dan………


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (10:05 am)

    MotoEV: Is VIA still in business?

    http://www.viamotors.com/


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    Kdawg

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (10:05 am)

    James: Did you happen to catch GM’s tease of the next-gen Chevy Trailblazer yesterday?

    No. I plan to check it out at the show next Saturday. Isn’t it just called the Blazer now, like it was originally?


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (10:07 am)

    bro1999: What am I doing wrong??

    Put this before the picture link “[i m g]” and this after “[/i m g]”
    (note remove the spaces shown above between the letters. I did this so the site didn’t think I was trying to post an image)


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (10:10 am)

    Dave – Phoenix: I had a friend who insisted on getting a 4WD drive option in his Explorer. It was an absolute deal breaker if it didn’t have it. He owned the Explorer for 7 years and never once did he put it in 4WD.

    But think of all the water-cooler conversations where he was able to talk about his 4WD car. 😀


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    George S. Bower

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (10:15 am)

    James:
    So how is it this game is going to be played?

    Ford: Announces it’s latest F-150 will have an all aluminum body and bed + EcoBoost V-6 = 20 MPG.

    GM: Announces it is building 500 e-Assist Silverados with V-8s, 8-speed autos and Voltec tech baked in – 20 MPG Combined.

    Ford: Announces yesterday it will build a F-150 Hybrid.

    GM: ( Future ) Announces it will up the battery size, e-motor and 9-speed auto in Silverado = 30 MPG.

    Ford: ( Future ) Announces I-4 EcoBoost F-150 Hybrid with larger battery pack = 31 MPG

    and on…and on…

    political rant deleted


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (10:26 am)

    Kdawg: But think of all the water-cooler conversations where he was able to talk about his 4WD car. 😀

    Exactly.

    Meanwhile… I bought a 2WD Explorer in the 90’s and took it off-road many times. I just couldn’t see paying an extra $2500 for an option I didn’t “really” need and probably wouldn’t use.


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (10:45 am)

    James: So how is it this game is going to be played?

    My biggest fear is that we take 2 steps back when Trump takes over.

    Many of the regulations and incentives that have helped to get us this far are now at risk.


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (11:29 am)

    The Volt clearly has the best powertrain and battery combo in its class, and among the best in the world of any powertrain type. It’s time Chevy/GM started fleshing out the line with this excellent system. Not sure what’s holding them back, but right now it looks like there is nothing on the radar that will share the Volt’s Voltec FWD package (don’t tell me CT6, which is RWD and quite different, nor Malibu hybrid, which doesn’t have plug-in capabililty.)


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    TedinFortMyers

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (12:46 pm)

    All GM is missing from the Bolt is Supercharging Network Access. Why are people waiting a unknown period of time for a Tesla 3? It is for the over the road trip they may never take but want the capability of. It could be a $3,000.00 option customers would pay for and probably never use. Take Care, TED


  43. 43
    George S. Bower

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (1:02 pm)

    GM plant in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, in 2013 where they make Cruze

    BN-RM485_TRUMPG_M_20170104202646.jpg


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    Null

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (1:35 pm)

    Kdawg,

    Nope, he has a new white model S.


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    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (1:45 pm)

    A student asked why cutting power to EV’s is security?

    Answer:
    Because if you have a blackout or a brownout *for any reason* you have an instant “spinning reserve” to keep the grid up, as auxiliary ramp up time can be twenty minutes. Cascading losses can be intercepted, mitigated, or blocked, in order to enable switching times.

    Switching times, of course, must be accomplished in a sixtieth of a second.

    But better response time than that sixtieth of a second can be accomplished with software pausing EV charging.

    With huge capacities of Bolt, for example, an interruption of a short period of time is no inconvenience or issue.

    Besides,
    Who wants to be out in a blackout when traffic signals are out, and gridlock may have occurred?
    (I was hoping more would see the incentive/security trade off).


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    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (2:08 pm)

    OK,

    Did you know that “spinning reserves” standby are worth $1000 a kilowatt?

    Would incentives backed up with this fact of demand-pausing values have validation to keeping incentives going?

    Of course.

    Those incentives belong to us already.


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    Tim Shevlin

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (2:11 pm)

    A missing statistic of interest would be the sales distribution of Volt re-uppers vs conquest sales. I think we are seeing ’13 Gen 1 lease returns driving Gen 2 sales now, spurred on by incentives. Jan.sales should be interesting. Bolt will boom and Volt may taper off to “normal”, reflecting ’14 owners re-upping. It’s all good.


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    Dave - Phoenix

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (2:19 pm)

    George S. Bower: GM plant in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, in 2013 where they make Cruze

    Where they make the Cruze “hatchback”.

    The Cruze Sedan, which is 97% of the Cruzes sold in America, is made in Lordstown, Ohio. My cousin works there…

    In reality, the Cruze is made all over the world, but is branded as a Luceti in Asia…


  49. 49
    Jackson

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (2:19 pm)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College: (I was hoping more would see the incentive/security trade off).

    Speaking just for myself, I did see what you were driving at. I just don’t think it’s very practical, at least not yet. You would need something over 10% penetration just to sell the idea, and we’re not even to 1% yet. It would require new electronics at each EV residence which will be paid for by the owner or the power company; either of which would take a lot of convincing. Most significantly, there is already incentive to charge EVs only at night with usage plans; when supplies of power are at “off peak” and the ‘spinning reserve’ effect is unlikely to be needed.

    The world where this is both possible and needed is a long way off. Plenty of time for large-scale power storage on the grid itself to develop. This is the better option in my opinion, and might rival your system for cost but be more flexible for the utility. For one thing, cars have to be charging for your system to have it’s greatest benefit, and at some on-peak times of the day (during rush-hour commutes), not many will be plugged in.


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (2:32 pm)

    James: I may have unknowingly just put blood in the water to attract Charlie and John!

    With good Volt news, it was already there. I’m surprised they weren’t already here. Small favors …


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    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (2:39 pm)

    Jackson,

    This is ****already**** in Volt and Bolt!

    Have you seen “Charging Interrupted” ?

    This is inverse-demand capability that isn’t a mostly dormant capability, it is a daily working capability that, when paused, you have just offset 3,600 watts demand, or 3,600 watts of “it (backup power capabilities)***probably are, very hopefully are, there*** which in no way is as reliable as ;

    ” Our Volt and Bolt customers can wait a bit to resume 3,600 watts of demand while we compensate elsewhere”.

    If off peak pause of 3,600 watts is needed, how many residences can have the reliability margins satisfied? We may be looking at ten residences per Volt, and thirty residences per Bolt!!!

    So, a gradient of efficacy with these shallowly-necessary margins is far flatter and doable that a “one watt per one watt ” offset accountability after all.

    Those incentives ****already**** belong to us.


  52. 52
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    Jan 5th, 2017 (2:45 pm)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College,

    Does the power company communicate with anything on-board the Volt? The charging software in the car has no direct way to sample overall load.

    If a car can do all the 1/60th of a second switching already, some form of communications and control will still be needed, though at less cost.

    Given charging at off-peak, this is still only relevant for cars charging during the day; which will always be the lesser number. Less patient day-chargers will need some economic incentive to participate. Many public charge rates are already usury, and could stand some discounting. Some kind of relationship/communication would have to exist at the public charging network to match individual cars to the plan/fee.


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (2:51 pm)

    Null: Nope, he has a new white model S.

    You know he has both right? His wife bought him the Model S. He said he may use that for long trips, but the Bolt will be his daily driver. He likes the interface on the Bolt better, among other things.


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    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (3:05 pm)

    Our posts just crossed, see above what I listed.
    But there are answers within the grid cycles in that between 5.0 volts and 3.8 volts, there is ***lots*** of communications time at thousands of hertz.

    I appreciate your following this.


  55. 55
    Dave G

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (3:08 pm)

    Loboc: Can’t pump gas with no electricity either.

    About 1/3 of the gas stations in our area had backup generators, so they were able to pump gas during the extended power outage.


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    bro1999

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (3:09 pm)

    Kdawg: You know he has both right?His wife bought him the Model S.He said he may use that for long trips, but the Bolt will be his daily driver.He likes the interface on the Bolt better, among other things.

    And he traded in his old Tesla to upgrade to the Bolt. 🙂


  57. 57
    George S. Bower

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (3:14 pm)

    Dave – Phoenix: Where they make the Cruze “hatchback”.

    The Cruze Sedan, which is 97% of the Cruzes sold in America, is made in Lordstown, Ohio. My cousin works there…

    In reality, the Cruze is made all over the world, but is branded as a Luceti in Asia…

    Yes. Just practicing the [img} thing kdawg posted. I do it differently. His way is simpler.


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    Dave G

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (3:27 pm)

    Kdawg: Note Steve Wozniak (Woz) was also one of the first 579 buyers of a Bolt EV. He said it will be his daily driver.

    Yes.

    Null: Nope, he has a new white model S.

    Yes, Steve Wozniak also bought a new white Model S that he plans to use for longer trips.

    But Kdawg is correct – Woz says the Bolt will be his main daily driver.

    More info here:
    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108097_woz-is-getting-a-chevy-bolt-ev-after-all-it-arrives-today


  59. 59
    DonC

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (3:33 pm)

    My sense is that people are beginning to understand the Volt and the advantages it delivers. I know I see a lot more Volts than I did before. Love the Bolt EV and the Pacifica hybrid too. Looking forward to the next gen Leaf and the Model 3 and the German entries. More choices are definitely better.

    Loboc: Lol. At less than 1% market share for plug-ins, there is pretty much zero effect on gasoline prices.

    In some areas the market share may be closer to 5%. Where I am the Model S is the second most popular model — after the Range Rover. Lots of Model X showing up as well. And 5% may be enough to start the death spiral of refining costs. The refineries have to be run full out in order to be profitable. Even a 5% drop dramatically changes the economics.

    Note that the increased CAFE helps as well. The demand destruction isn’t only due to electrified vehicles.

    James: Marketers know that “what ifs” do sell tons and tons of cars.

    Not just cars. When I lived in Atlanta you couldn’t sell a house unless it had a swim and tennis club, and very few people ever used either amenity. But they loved the idea of using it. It makes me wonder why GM doesn’t beef up the Volt suspension a bit and combine the engine with the motors to drop the 0-60 times. No one would likely ever use it but it would be a selling point.


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (3:40 pm)

    Jackson:

    The world where this is both possible and needed is a long way off.Plenty of time for large-scale power storage on the grid itself to develop.This is the better option in my opinion, and might rival your system for cost but be more flexible for the utility.For one thing, cars have to be charging for your system to have it’s greatest benefit, and at some on-peak times of the day (during rush-hour commutes), not many will be plugged in.

    I agree.

    Energy storage has a huge upside. This is why I’m excited Tesla was at the forefront of this early on and it’s tie-in ( excuse the pun ) with Solar City is just perfect.

    At the level plug in car usage is penetrating the market as a whole, it leaves plenty of time for power companies to move towards improved systems.

    On the “SLAP HAND TO FORHEAD” front – read this article. The paranoia re: “The Rushkies are gonna bring down our power grid – run for the hills, grab your babies…!!!!” and the media running with it – This is just sad. The Washington Post should go back to school.

    https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-washpost-again-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/


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    Mark Z

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (4:22 pm)

    George S. Bower: Nice description of the Bolt EV Mark Z.

    I was driving on pavement, so I’d like to know how noisy concrete compares with noisy Model S road noise. The “A” windshield pillar appears thinner than Model S, and I appreciated the improved vision. People walking behind the pillar is a concern of mine in pedestrian areas. The hatch area seemed to have an adequate amount of space for shopping and under cover storage. Another plus is the nice side door pocket similar to Model X. Model S has none.

    On the downside, no lighted mirror in the visor and the harder side dash decorative surface has a unique pattern that needs to be seen to be appreciated or not. Next time I will look closer at cup holders and the glove compartment. The center arm rest is back a touch, but it worked for me.


  62. 62
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    Jan 5th, 2017 (4:31 pm)

    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College: between 5.0 volts and 3.8 volts, there is ***lots*** of communications time at thousands of hertz.

    My experience with over-line communications suggest that (at the consumer level at least), data has trouble getting from one circuit in a service panel to another, never mind through a transformer. Add a noisy dimmer, and it might not work over the same circuit. Perhaps at very low baud rates (baudot with bit-maps, say) it might be different; I don’t know. Another possibility would be over-the-air via cellular networks, but this would also be problematic, and probably expensive (burst-data like text messages to 100,000s of cars several times a day could add up quickly).

    If you are talking about absorbing known spikes (line switching, etc) the cars’ charging software could be scheduled a few seconds ahead. Unknown spikes would be harder. Continuous load-shedding isn’t advisable except for emergencies as day-chargers are more likely to be impatiently waiting than someone at night asleep. As I said, it’s not likely to be needed at night anyway.

    I do appreciate that your system does not involve putting car power onto the grid (V2G), which I think is a terrible idea. V2G is an attempt by power companies to ‘freeload’ on car buyers for a capacity they ought to be providing for themselves.

    The incentive to develop your system exists, and it can be initiated with much less hardware than on-grid power storage. Is it incentive enough for power companies to consider it? Not until it’s more like 10 houses per Bolt or other BEV, I think. That’ll take some time, during which power companies may come to see grid-storage as cost competitive with ‘spinning reserve’ and additional baseline. It may be the only way to offset a nationwide line-upgrade (you could conceivably send twice as much power over an existing line by time-shifting it).

    I could see something mitigating spike or momentary load excursions, but keep in mind that things like this have been tried before (staggering air conditioners under “super on-peak” conditions), and it’s barely made any dent.


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (4:49 pm)

    DonC:

    It makes me wonder why GM doesn’t beef up the Volt suspension a bit and combine the engine with the motors to drop the 0-60 times. No one would likely ever use it but it would be a selling point.

    Absolutely!

    I agree. I used to laugh and roll my eyes when others would ask GM for an SS Volt. Now, not so much. Tesla has gotten so much mileage out of these dragstrip and punch-it EV reaction test drive videos it’s not even funny! You’d think nobody at all has a speeding ticket and has to watch their speed driving out in the big wide world anymore! Everyone acts like they’re gonna go blow off sports cars with their EV all day long!

    Build that SS Volt I say! It seems so much can be done with software these days, just give the SS Volt another “gear” ( mode ) that programs it for 0-60 and 1/4 mile. Our friend, Mr. Murray has his gen2 Volt dragstrip video up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD-RIcpO8Do and he shows how Volt can beat a ( non P ) S – 85 Tesla to the 60′ mark! 7.1 seconds 0-60. Get those 1/8th and 1/4 mile times up and it’ll create more buzz.

    Volts are sporty looking cars. I like it when a sporty-lookin’ car can back that up with some zoom!
    So does everybody else. I had an old lady with a bun in her hair punch it and beat me to a two-into-one lane off of a stoplight! She was in an old 4 cyl. Ford Taurus with 3 colors of bondo! I in my 2nd gen Prius was not humored! – OK, well a little…


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (4:58 pm)

    Mark Z: I was driving on pavement, so I’d like to know how noisy concrete compares with noisy Model S road noise. The “A” windshield pillar appears thinner than Model S, and I appreciated the improved vision. People walking behind the pillar is a concern of mine in pedestrian areas. The hatch area seemed to have an adequate amount of space for shopping and under cover storage. Another plus is the nice side door pocket similar to Model X. Model S has none.

    On the downside, no lighted mirror in the visor and the harder side dash decorative surface has a unique pattern that needs to be seen to be appreciated or not. Next time I will look closer at cup holders and the glove compartment. The center arm rest is back a touch, but it worked for me.

    I know lightweighting is crucial, the money is in the LG pack and electronics, I get that. But does the general public? Not so much. I was taken by the hard plastics and the sheer amount of it, and that crazy ( love it or hate it ) styrofoam cooler color they selected to make the dash and door panels look futuristic ( kind of reminds me of those whacky graphics and olive green hard plastic door panels on some gen1 Volts! ). That aside, I really like the blue offset lighting that runs around the dash – wish it continued in the doors.

    Why are the LCD displays bright white? That seems hurtful to my eyes. Most people say they like it. The background turns black when you turn on the lights. Is that adjustable so you can have the dark background at all times?


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    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (5:00 pm)

    There are many more types of reader interests than just our own.

    Bringing aboard more varied types of professionals to GM-Volt.com is one of our goals.

    For example, when Texas’ grid shut down several years ago during a Winter storn, because all but one Independent Generators (corporations) were not able to come online as contracted, a request went out for Texans to cut as much power as possible so that the grid could be brought up again more easily.

    While the Electric Reliability Counsel of Texas had a lot of explaining to do, it became clear that there needed to be better and more reliable ways to secure reliability.
    So, security has validly-different meanings depending on who you ask, and their reasons are almost always good.

    What we try to do here is to provide good reasons why electrification is far better for all types of security, not just for National Security. And, a philosophy to *always* provide the best information possible to *any* policy maker is always the right thing to do. That’s professionalism.


  66. 66
    Dan Petit/Petit Technical College

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    Jan 5th, 2017 (6:12 pm)

    Jackson,
    Thanks for following this, I really appreciate it.

    The entire National Grid must be synchronous exactly to the 60 cycles per second.
    (Kind of inefficient with the vast, empty, energy-time between cycles, really.)

    But the duplex telemetry of Volt and Bolt is one other avenue that already exists.
    GM got that established as an industry standard years ago. We just never discussed it much.

    As far as the grid is concerned, you need very simple formats to empower very widely-applied “on/off” results with simplex, or repeated, “one way” communications, as verified by the smart meter itself. Pretty interesting capabilities standardized about 8 years ago, as a utility engineer explained it to me back then.


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (8:23 pm)

    Dave – Phoenix: My biggest fear is that we take 2 steps back when Trump takes over.

    Many of the regulations and incentives that have helped to get us this far are now at risk.

    If Model 3 takes off in the markeplace. Everything will take care of itself. No mandates from any government source needed.

    This is how it should be. Electric cars need to be so exciting, so compelling and have so many good vibes as to launch themselves. I’m a free market guy. EVs are goodness, and that goodness takes place in many ways as we all know. Ford is touting the performance aspects of electric + gas. So be it. It’s just more electric drive in the fleet. When electric-enhanced or electric boost becomes synonymous with sexy, young and exhilerating – that message trickles down to the subcompact and utility world ( thank you Ronald Reagan! ).

    Hope it’s not a trickle, but a huge wave that takes up the auto industry and the market opens wide
    with all sorts of new electric and electrified options!!!

    I agree we’re near the tipping point – with Pacifica Hybrid, Bolt EV and possibly some hybrid trucks out there. It still will take Model 3 sold in the 100,000s to push it over the top. LEAF 2 ( if there is one – Mr. Ghosn? ) and Volt sold in 50,000/yr would also help a whole lot.


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (8:35 pm)

    Dave G: For most families, yes, the Bolt may be a great choice. For our family, not so much…

    Jim I: If you and your wife both drive long distances for your work and family requirements, then you are quite correct when you say the Bolt is not the vehicle for you.

    But that does not make the Bolt a faulty vehicle. It just means it won’t work for your family.

    Right. Isn’t that what I said?


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    Jan 5th, 2017 (11:50 pm)

    James: I agree we’re near the tipping point – with Pacifica Hybrid, Bolt EV and possibly some hybrid trucks out there. It still will take Model 3 sold in the 100,000s to push it over the top. LEAF 2 ( if there is one – Mr. Ghosn? ) and Volt sold in 50,000/yr would also help a whole lot.

    I think we are still priced above the tipping point even when including Bolt and Model 3. If the Bolt was a true crossover (Equinox class) and priced the same, “then” we might be at the tipping point.


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    Jan 6th, 2017 (12:19 am)

    Dave – Phoenix: I think we are still priced above the tipping point even when including Bolt and Model 3. If the Bolt was a true crossover (Equinox class) and priced the same, “then” we might be at the tipping point.

    When I see this data it makes me feel old. But according to USA Today, the average price paid in the USA in 2015 for a new car was $33,560. To me, just a few scant years ago it seems that was an entry-level luxury buy. Like a Lexus or the BMW with the straight 6 instead of the V-8. This article illuminates us with the fact that the most popular and numerous buys are big trucks and SUVs, all going up up up in price. Just a few years back I saw a Toyota 4Runner on the lot, it was stacked with all the options and whistles. It had an MSRP of just $40,000. I was floored. My jaw just dropped. I thought, “What the —?!” , “For THAT?!”… Now that’s a starting price for a mildly-equipped 4 cylinder compact crossover without leather.

    Now we have F-150s and High Sierra pickup trucks topping $60,000! That’s SIXTY GRAND. Ever price an Escalade lately? You might get the long version with some options out the door for $100,000! That is stuff for the psycho ward right there! Any human being would have to be seriously nuts to spend that for that. It’s a pickup truck on a steel beam chassis for God’s sakes! That pickup has LEAF SPRINGS – You know, like from the Old West wagon days?

    So these popular cars are driving up the price of the lower to average-priced ones. Add all the bling today that is nearly expected – and some fine safety features that used to only be found in that Lexus or BMW, and you can see how these prices can rise pretty swiftly.

    At $27,000 for a Bolt EV LT after tax refund without the bells…I think that is squarely in the wheelhouse of middle America. The tough sell is the limitations of said Bolt EV – the lack of reliable fast charge infrastructure and even the blocked, unrepaired or ICEd Lvl 2 stations you have to drive around town to find like some kind of video game. That is what is wrong with reaching the tipping point. That and the heal-dragging by GM, Ford, FCA, Toyota ( hydrogen shell game anyone? ), Hyundai, Mercedes and all the rest.

    Government regulatory moves aren’t going to usher in the electric revolution. Been saying that for years and years. Looking for government to bring mankind to new levels of enlightenment was spent on the wars political and physical that brought about liberty and justice for all. After that – it’s greed, profit, narcissism, laziness and pride that have gotten in the way. It’s called humankind.

    So we need a lot of grace – and we need incentive to bring about change for the better. The carrot here is Tesla. Musk is showing the world that electric drive is exciting – not just an appliance. that’s what is happening, and it’s ever soooo slowwwww…

    But – we’re gettin’ there. 🙂

    When GM and Ford wake up one day and they have to compete to gain market share – the doors
    fly open and our free market economy kicks in and the change happens quite quickly.


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    Jan 6th, 2017 (12:48 am)

    As much as I like Tesla (I REALLY like Tesla! ) I have to warn stockholders in that company that all hell is going to break loose when that day finally comes. That is the day when GM, Ford, Toyota and the rest actually go toe-to-toe with them.

    At that moment, a consumer will have a choice between A) The Tesla, and B) The same exact or better option in that vehicle category – but built by a legacy auto company with 75-105 years of car building and selling experience, supplier chains, business and political relationships, tens of thousands of employees, engineering teams, wind tunnels and cash. Kind of one-sided, huh?

    Tesla will have far less resources to burn than the Big Boys who can turn out a project like Bolt EV without breaking a sweat…Like a hobby on the side, and squirt out 30,000 of ’em per year with far less effort. Just think of a Model S equivelant or a Model X or Y built by the likes of teams like those guys!

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    It’d be kind of like your favorite junior college team going against an NFL club! I’m not sure if Elon Musk has even prepared for that day. When he has awakened the sleeping giant.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    At that time, the orders will be sent down from the ivory towers in Tokyo, Dearborn, Detroit and Munich to “give me a Model 3 competitor – stat for stat and make it scaleable to 200,000 copies/year!” – – – Game On!

    Then add China. By then, BYD and others will surely be on our shores, building cars on our turf and they definately will be electrified. At that time, Tesla may just fade away. It would be a sad tale, but not a new one. Engulfed – swallowed up by the surge of history, of commerce and the American way.


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    Jan 6th, 2017 (12:59 am)

    Oh look! BYD is already here! Building electric buses and fleet BEVs in California…….


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    Jan 6th, 2017 (9:27 am)

    James: When I see this data it makes me feel old. But according to USA Today, the average price paid in the USA in 2015 for a new car was $33,560.

    I continue to see this data about average pricing being in the mid 30’s. This does not mean everyone pays $35K for their vehicle. Without a doubt, the high dollar pricing of luxury cars being factored into the average is elevating this number.

    Sorry. That dog won’t hunt.

    If you want to look at mainstream pricing, find the cars that sell the most and price them. “That” is what the average American pays. I think you will find that number to be closer $25K.

    Passenger cars whose first digit of their price is a “3” are not mainstream priced, no matter what that “average” data says.


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    Jan 6th, 2017 (9:43 am)

    James: the average price paid in the USA in 2015 for a new car was $33,560.

    Dave – Phoenix: I continue to see this data about average pricing being in the mid 30’s. This does not mean everyone pays $35K for their vehicle. Without a doubt, the high dollar pricing of luxury cars being factored into the average is elevating this number.

    I’d love to see a bell curve on this data. I started to create one a couple years ago with 2012 data.. but it was tedious and I gave up after a week.


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    Jan 6th, 2017 (11:30 am)

    Kdawg: I’d love to see a bell curve on this data. I started to create one a couple years ago with 2012 data.. but it was tedious and I gave up after a week.

    I’ve made a living getting data to say what I want it to say. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

    Rather than look at data, just look at the price of mainstream compacts, and midsize cars, Namely the Cruze/Corolla/Civic/Focus and the Malibu/Camry/Accord/Fusion. Those are main stream vehicles and they do not average $35K in price.


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    Jan 6th, 2017 (11:36 am)

    Dave – Phoenix,

    I wanted to make the chart to get away from subjective terms like “mainstream”. So I was compiling the sales of EVERY vehicle and its MSRP. Then I could see how many $15K cars were sold, how many $20K cars, etc. By looking at the curve, we could get a better feel of what most people are paying for cars, and not have to rely on the “average” number.


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    Jan 6th, 2017 (11:39 pm)

    Dave G,

    They have this new invention called a generator. So if you lose power at the house, it kicks in a gives you power. After being through many hurricanes in South Florida, when hurricane hits and the power is down for weeks, there is no gas to get. I would stock up on it when one threatens, but if you are lucky enough to have natural gas, a stand by whole house generator that runs on it is nice as the supply isn’t limited.

    Can’t help you with the long commute and I have that issue where having 2 BEVs wouldn’t work and I don’t even have the option of eating in an out of the way place waiting for it to charge either.


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    Jan 7th, 2017 (11:20 am)

    Loboc: Bolt and Prime validate Volt. Sales, regardless of incentives, are up. Way up.

    A spike in sales at year-end is the usual expectation. People rush to take advantage of being able to collect tax-credit money right away, rather than having to wait an additional 12 months. That influence cannot simply be dismissed. Sales going up temporarily is normal. What happens in the following months is what tells the real story.

    As for Bolt validating Volt, how? The premise of Volt was to alleviate “range anxiety” by providing an engine for backup power when electricity runs out due to battery limitations. Bolt doesn’t need that. The 200-mile EV range overcomes the same concern… which invalidates. Bolt’s capacity growth through increased energy-density and cost-reduction counters the selling point of Volt.

    With respect to Prime, what is the Volt validation? We always knew the mid-cycle, limited-rollout Prius PHV would be replaced by a nationwide next-gen model featuring a larger capacity battery and more power, for a price competitive with traditional vehicles. That’s exactly what Toyota has delivered. What influence did Volt have? It certainly wasn’t a need for liquid-cooling or much further EV range.

    Put it this way. The sales goal hasn’t changed. 24,739 is well below the target of 60,000 set for mainstream penetration and maintainable profitability. Bolt will be competing for the same limited quantity of tax-credits with Volt. Rapid significant growth is essential. That record high 3,691 needs to climb to 5,000 and remain there. Otherwise, what’s the point? Replacing traditional vehicles with plug-in choices requires strong sales without subsidies.