Aug 25

Is ‘MPGe’ a ‘bogus’ metric confusing consumers and hurting plug-in sales?

 

Some readers here have said “MPGe” (mile per gallon equivalent) is not the best way to represent efficiency for EREVs, EVs, or PHEVs. Actual operating costs or cost per mile is another way, and there are alternatives besides these.

But regarding MPGe, a writer says this is hurting sales. Could an equally valid counterpoint be that shoppers need to put on their thinking caps? Is all the info they need already available if they will just be proactive? The government has all sorts of data down to an efficiency calculator to measure real costs.

Shall we blame the government when it’s already subsidizing the industry and forcing CAFE on automakers, and more?

Not sure what the actual truth is. That plug-in sales have been less than some hoped for is apparent. Others say we’re off to a decent start. There are lots of angles to this. The writer in the summarized story following talked more about the PiP because he has one, but similar observations – to a degree – could be made about the Volt…
- Jeff

Story By Mark Atkinson

chevrolet-volt-in-california-hov-lane
 

Even at the best of times, introducing new technology can be painful. Teething problems, false starts and high initial costs are all part of the deal.

The same holds true for the gradual electrification of vehicles, which despite billions of dollars in investment still only makes up a fraction of the cars, trucks and SUVs sold every year.

Dylan Tweney, a writer at Venture Beat and owner of a plug-in Toyota Prius, takes aim at what he believes are the real culprits in EVs slow popularity crawl: the EPA and its miles-per-gallon-equivalent (MPGe) ratings.

“Sometimes, the advantages of a new technology are unclear because people are evaluating it with an outdated metric,” he says. “We’re saving an enormous amount of money by driving on electricity instead of gas, but none of that savings was obvious before we bought the car.”

Tweney says the MPGe ratings, introduced in 2011 and mandatory on Monroney (window) stickers ever since, isn’t very clear when comparing EVs to gas-powered models.

2012_Toyota_Prius_Plugin

“What does it mean that an electric car like the Nissan Leaf has an MPGe of 126 city/101 highway or that the Tesla Model S gets 95? These cars never consume gasoline at all, so those figures are purely imaginary. It’s hard to translate these numbers into a measure of what the economics of these cars really are.

He says other information on the stickers — in much smaller print, mind you — discussing how many kwh per 100 miles on electricity and gallons of gas per 100 miles on the gas engine are easier to grasp.

Despite the Prius plug-in only having an EV-only range of 10 or 11 miles, the 3 kwh required to fill the battery only costs about 25 cents at night, meaning 2.5 cents per mile. In “regular” gas-burning mode, the Prius still delivers excellent economy relative to rivals at 10 cents a miles. It has saved his family significant money — “over $100 per month, or almost half the cost of the car’s lease.” — especially compared with the family’s old Mazda minivan, which Tweney says averages about 21 cents a mile, or nearly 10 times as much as the EV-mode Prius.

WindowSticker

However, the uncertainty about variable electricity prices adds just as much confusion to the mix.

“Electricity prices are not only variable, they are not at all transparent. You can’t look them up on PG&E’s Web site. So it is almost impossible to make this calculation until you actually drive the car home and try it out for a while and then look at your utility bill.”

The combination of “outdated means of measurement” and “the market for electricity [remaining] opaque, few people will be able to figure out whether they’re worth it.”

VentureBeat

This entry was posted on Monday, August 25th, 2014 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 77


  1. 1
    Mark Z

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (6:32 am)

    An excellent topic. The MPGe is easy to understand since most people (like me) might think it means “miles per gallon – electric!” However it will be frustrating when the gas bill is high because the MPGe only works with plug-in miles and using very little fuel. Once the battery is drained the real MPG occurs. Advertisements should be required to show both. The Ford Focus Electric ads are deceptive if the prospective buyer thinks they are going to get 110/99 MPGe 100% of the time.


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    PJwood

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (6:39 am)

    MPGe is, in the end, a queer stat. I’m going to go out on a limb and say people want efficiency related to economics, not chemistry. The government (EPA) anchors MPGe in a chemical relationship (~33kwh per gal, whatever). The price of each gas and electricity are volatile enough, that I agree with the author. Gas can go one way, while electricity which is far more volatile by region, can go the other. I think they should retire MPGe.

    I did a slide on the EPA sticker, once, to deliberately mock how not just far from “cents per mile” they are, but the font sizes and queer “kwh, per 100 mile” way of representing electric efficiency. Miles per gallon lends itself to “miles per kwh”. No? Range gets a nice bar graphic, but it too is represented in a font that is very small, next to….MPGe.

    The costs to operate a PHEV are very poorly represented, today. It’s as if an environmental organization did it. Oh, wait…


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (6:42 am)

    PJwood:
    MPGe is, in the end, a queer stat.I’m going to go out on a limb and say people want efficiency related to economics, not chemistry.The government (EPA) anchors MPGe in a chemical relationship (~33kwh per gal, whatever).The price of each gas and electricity are volatile enough, that I agree with the author.Gas can go one way, while electricity which is far more volatile by region, can go the other.I think they should retire MPGe.

    I did a slide on the EPA sticker, once, to deliberately mock how not just far from “cents per mile” they are, but the font sizes and queer “kwh, per 100 mile” way of representing electric efficiency.Miles per gallon lends itself to “miles per kwh”.No?Range gets a nice bar graphic, but it, too, is represented in a font that is very small, next to….MPGe.

    The costs to operate a PHEV are very poorly represented, today.It’s as if an environmental organization did it. Oh, wait…


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    Breezy

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (6:44 am)

    MPGe (or Le/100km in metric) would make sense if people had any idea what a gallon-equivalent of electricity costs. Only the biggest EV geeks like myself would even bother to do that calculation. miles/kWh is much better (actually kWh/100 miles is even better, but that’s another discussion). This is despite the fact that electricity costs, especially incremental costs, are much more difficult to find out than they should be.

    I understand the intent was to normalize efficiency across different on-board energy sources, but I think experience has shown that it doesn’t communicate very effectively to the public. MPGe should be a footnote rather than prominently displayed.


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    Richard

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (6:45 am)

    I think MPGe should be a number relegated to engineers/scientists and be left to decision makers. It might be used as a side number for the consumer as a fun “fact” but in the end they care mostly about economics. In that regard efficiency of the car should be repeated in miles/kWh.


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    KUD

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (6:45 am)

    I think in this case the Europeans have it right. X liter per 100 KM (Miles). X KW per 100 Miles. The MPGe is irrelevant as you do not burn gas on electricity.


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    BillR

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (6:48 am)

    I’m sure the EPA wanted to create a metric that could be compared to MPG in an ICE driven vehicle. That hasn’t provided the incentive to go electric.

    I am convinced that John and Jane Q. Public for the most part aren’t long term planners, but are more reactionary to events that surround them. In 2008, I was looking for a vehicle (new or used). This was in the summer when oil peaked at $140 per barrel and gasoline prices were essentially $4 per gallon.

    My local Chevy dealer had a 2007 Tahoe LTZ with about 30,000 miles. It was beautiful! Almost every option, blue metallic exterior, white leather interior. It was immaculate. I could have bought it for $23k (a vehicle that was about $50k new). These low prices reflected the public’s reaction to spikes in gasoline prices. I checked Kelley Blue Book, and this vehicle is still worth about $23k today.

    In essence, I feel that the general public has now adjusted to gasoline prices in the $3 to $4 per gallon range, and won’t sacrifice the convenience and utility of an SUV for a compact car like the Volt, despite the MPGe.

    I believe GM has to offer a larger Voltec (midsize) or a plugin SUV at nominal premiums (net after tax credit) over an ICE version.

    Or wait for the next big oil price spike that pushes gasoline prices over $5 per gallon.


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    GSP

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (7:16 am)

    I don’t know if it impacts sales or not, but mpge is totally meaningless.

    How is an equivelent gallon measured? CO2: maybe, or $cost: nope, energy at the flywheel of a typically efficient engine: probably not, or energy in the fuel: probably. Are the gallons Gasoline, Diesel, E85, or the E10 that is at most pumps instead of gas? Who knows? All this to calculate back to kWh and finally to your cost per mile. No thanks.

    kWh/100 miles, measured from the wall, is what should be displayed.

    Utilities should also be required to make the cost per kWh easy to read on your bill and their websites. It is very complicated and hard to get the information now, and hard to understand even when given all the (many) formulas required.

    Mpge should not be on the window sticker at all, much less highlighted in large print.

    GSP


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    James McQuaid

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (7:28 am)

    G.M.’s marketing has had such a terrible time trying to advertise the Volt that they should stop trying to sell it as an “electric” car, and just sell it as a car. That alone would be a substantial improvement over not marketing it at all


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    Thomas J. Thias

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (7:44 am)

    The surging Global Electric Fueled Vehicle Industry has just eclipse 500,000 units sold, over one half a million cars.

    In the United States alone we are about to pass the 250,000 unit sold mark, one quarter on a million Electric Fueled Vehicles sold!

    These Gasoline Fueled Vehicle conquest sales have occured in just the 32 months since the Chevy Volt Extended Range Electric Vehicle and Nissan Leaf came off limited beta marketing and National U.S. Sales began, 32 months ago in November, 2011.

    Stunning!

    Link Goes To The U.S. Sales EV Ticker, Plug In America Dot Org-

    http://www.pluginamerica.org/

    Best-

    Thomas J. Thias

    517-749-0532

    Twitter.com/AmazingChevVolt


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    Loboc

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (7:48 am)

    Most people I know don’t worry about MPG or any other efficiency metric. What matters is utility and self-image. (Mostly self-image). The monthly fixed costs fit my ‘budget’? It’s a go.

    This applies to high-efficiency cars as well. Except the self-image is more Ed Begley than Mario Andretti.


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    MnVikes

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (8:03 am)

    The problem with MPGe is multi fold.
    They use it to try and compare EV to ICE cars when EVs use no gas at all.
    EV’s main issues are range and time to recharge, (excluding price of vehicle)

    They try to compare a Volt to a PIP when the range on said MPGe’s vary so much.
    When a PIP turns into a regular hybrid be it 6 miles, 11, or whatever john1701a claims it’s still 1/6 to 1/4 the electric range of the Volt.

    The bottom line is there are two many options, (a good thing ) for people to drive and the general public is not smart enough to evaluate the options on their own.
    Add to this the Governments inability to do most things well and efficient and an automakers desire to promote their option which make the most profit and…..

    Wow, where does one start? :-)

    I still think the Volt hits a great sweet spot of reasonable range electric before it converts to a hybrid.


  13. 13
    Schmeltz

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (8:04 am)

    Even after following this stuff for years, I still barely have a grasp as to what MPGe is, let alone explain it to someone else. I’m not a fan of it, although I don’t have a suggestion for something better either.

    Someone who is smarter than me (and there is a lot of you here!) needs to come up with something better! :)


  14. 14
    Bobc

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (8:29 am)

    The confusion is further enhanced by the accounting for charging losses at the plug. ICE based cars are not burdened by distribution and processing costs because that is supposedly reflected in the final price at the pump, further convoluted by federal and state taxes per gallon. So in the end it would seem that cost per mile or kilometer is the only stable unifying metric.


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    kdawg

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (8:45 am)

    Loboc: This applies to high-efficiency cars as well. Except the self-image is more Ed Begley than Mario Andretti.

    I dunno, times could be changing…

    Electric Cars? Even NASCAR Drivers Want them

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1060629_electric-cars-even-nascar-drivers-want-them

    “Enter Columbian-born Juan Pablo Montoya. Former Formula One World Champion and current NASCAR driver of the #42 Target Chevrolet Impala, Montoya has a dirty secret:
    He’s just got a 2011 Chevrolet Volt and he likes it.”

    Maybe it’s best to leave the final say to Montoya. “It’s actually entertaining to drive. I like it. Am I going to be a Greenpeace guy? No, I’m a fuel junkie. But if you can help a little bit, why not? And have fun in the meanwhile.”


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    kdawg

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (8:51 am)

    Use the average price of gas & electricity and put $/mile. Need to compare this to the typical car in that class.

    Also list the average time between fill-ups. That would be an eye-opener for many who don’t understand PHEVs/EREVs. Much more so than any MPGe.


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    mrenergyczar

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (9:01 am)

    Use Miles Per Dollar for 25, 50, and 100 mile drives based on average electric and gas costs nationwide. The higher the number the better…. a Prius MPD of 12 doesn’t look so good against a Volt MPD of 40 or more….


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    mrenergyczar

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (9:08 am)

    kdawg:
    Use the average price of gas & electricity and put $/mile.Need to compare this to the typical car in that class.

    Also list the average time between fill-ups. That would be an eye-opener for many who don’t understand PHEVs/EREVs.Much more so than any MPGe.

    Just flip it around to miles/dollar so people shop.for the higher number….


  19. 19
    Dave G

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (9:20 am)

    The whole emphasis on Miles Per Gallon implies that the goal is to conserve gasoline, not replace it.

    To me this is misleading. Plug-ins do replace gasoline with electricity, and that’s the point.

    Unlike oil, 100% of our electricity comes from North America, and we have enough coal, natural gas, uranium, and thorium to last at least 200 years. Once we stop sending trillions of dollars overseas to pay for oil, the economy will improve significantly, and then we’ll have the money to invest in long term solutions, like solar and wind.

    With electricity, we don’t need to send our sons and daughters to fight oil wars, and we don’t need to leave them a planet that we destroyed.

    Converting electricity to “Miles Per Gallon equivalent” ignores these issues. It makes it seem like electricity is somehow equivalent to gasoline, which it is not.

    GASOLINE = DEAD END. ELECTRICITY = HOPE. It is impossible to make these equivalent.


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    john1701a

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (9:25 am)

    MnVikes: When a PIP turns into a regular hybrid be it 6 miles, 11, or whatever john1701a claims it’s still 1/6 to 1/4 the electric range of the Volt.

    Why not refer to capacity the way capacity is actually measured, using KWH ?

    Use of estimated RANGE instead is just as misleading as the MPGe measure… as that example illustrates.

    Using KWH instead, there is no doubt. Capacity for Volt is now 17.1 kWh. Capacity for Prius PHV is currently 4.4 kWh. That is unequivocally a little more than 1/4 the capacity.


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    Nelson

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (9:25 am)

    The MPGe metric might be hurting plug-in sales but not as much as the lack of charging stations in heavily used parking lots. IMO, if “ALL” Wal-marts, and Club Shops like BJ’s, COSCO & Sam’s Club had just 4 level 2 charging stations with properly labeled “free” or utility rate fee charging, that visibility alone would go a long way in spurring interest in plug-in cars.

    This weekend I parked an entire day (10am – 8pm) at a Boston area MBTA Parking lot for $6. The lot had 4 Free available ChargePoint chargers, one of which I used. When I picked up my car a person approached me and said “I hear it’s expensive to use those chargers”. I told him it was free, and he asked why the stations had the credit card logos on them. I told him some do charge a fee but the 4 in this lot were free. He went off in disbelief.

    One can say having credit card logos on charging stations that offer free charging hurts plug-in sales more than confusing MPGe metric. If it’s free charging there should be a big sign that says “Free Charging”.

    NPNS! SBF!
    Volt#671


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    kdawg

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (9:39 am)

    Nelson: If it’s free charging there should be a big sign that says “Free Charging”.

    That’s a good idea. All of the chargers around me are free. (approx 30 of them). I’m sure many think they cost $.


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    Allen Cohen

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (9:45 am)

    It is hard to convince the”Hoi Polloi” about the economy of plug-in electric cars and plug-in hybrids. So I state my running average on my Chevrolet VOLT such as 45,000 miles at 70 mpg (I am now driving more locally to increase my mpg). Or I might say I can travel between Princeton and back to home on electricity only.

    As for our Ford CMAX ENERGI, which we now use for long distance driving, it is presently 60 mpg for the first 6000 miles. Coincidentally, FORD sent us a check for $775 the other day to reflect the change in the sticker!

    The third component of my plan was the installation of SOLAR panels. I remind myself that I save 1-1.5 gallon equivalent of gasoline per day, representing a $100-150 per month savings.

    Most of my story goes over their heads. So the other week I changed my VOLT license plate to:
    OYGVOLT (OH MY GOD)


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    vdiv

     

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (9:52 am)

    It is a bogus metric for one reason alone. There is nothing equivalent between gasoline and electricity. The whole point of plugin cars is to make that distinction.


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    former GM Emplopyee

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (10:41 am)

    (click to show comment)


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    hvacman

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (10:49 am)

    We had this debate on the forum years ago when the EPA first rolled out this kludge of an efficiency number. As we mostly agreed then and I still believe now – PHEV’s are a different animal, can’t be compared to ICE-powered vehicles, and the EPA, in attempting to assemble a single number to do it, really screwed it up. PHEV’s need three numbers – Gas miles per gallon, electric miles per kWh, and all-electric range in miles.


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    Raymondjram

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (11:02 am)

    KUD:
    I think in this case the Europeans have it right.X liter per 100 KM (Miles).X KW per 100 Miles.The MPGe is irrelevant as you do not burn gas on electricity.

    I agree with most of the members here that the EPA MPGe is useless and unexplainable to laypersons. The European version of kWh per 100 KM (Metric) or as kWh per mile (Imperial) is better. But for those who know what a kWh is, the miles per kWh is the best metric. I read that most Volt owners get between 4 and 4.5 miles per kWh, and the best can reach 5 miles per kWh, which means that its 10.5 kWh charge gives it a range of 55 miles.

    Since ICEVs use miles per gallon (MPG), and one can estimate the range by mutiplying the MPG with the tank capacity, the same applies for EVs. So if we can vote for the best metric to compare electric efficiency, I chose miles/kWh (Imperial) and km/kWh or even m/Wh (Metric).

    And for those who see the kilowatt-hour or even a watt-hour as a too-long description of energy, there is a true metric: the “joule” or “J”. One joule is one watt-second, so a watt-hour is 3.6 kJ since there are 3,600 seconds in one hour. So a kWh = 1000 x 3.6 kJ = 3.6 MJ. Going further, if the average Volt efficiency was 4.5 miles per kWh or 4.5 miles per 3.6 MJ, then dividing it by 3.6 equals 1.25 miles per MJ.

    In conclusion, the average Volt can reach 1.25 MPMJ (miles per megaJoule), and with a 10.5 kWh (37.8 MJ) battery capacity, the range is still 1.25 x 37.8 = 47.25 miles. The minimum acceptable could be just one mile per MJ, so a full charge gives a range of 37.8 miles. For the Metric system, it converts to 1.6 km per megaJoule or 1.6 KMPMJ, or 1.6 meter per kiloJoule (MPKJ).

    If the EPA and EV fans accept these values, remeber that you read it here first!

    Raymond


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    Dave-Phoenix

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (11:11 am)

    The guy that wrote the article has a point in that MPGe is not an accurate tool to measure cost savings, and Americans have already been trained to calculate cost savings in their head based upon MPG.

    Consumers think with their wallets. But… Most vehicle stickers now include the estimated annual cost of for fuel, which helps a little.

    MPGe isn’t even that useful for those that have no concern about cost and strictly are interested in carbon emissions or pollution because electricity can come from so many different sources that the there is no way to accurately measure carbon emission/pollution based solely on MPGe.

    What is most interesting is that the guy who wrote the article drives a Plug In Prius, the plug in vehicle that spends the least amount of time driving solely on EV power (when MPGe comes into play)


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    DonC

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (11:13 am)

    I agree that consumers care about cost and not efficiency. This is actually helpful from a policy standpoint since costs represent costs to society. You need to factor in the externalities of course but costs give a starting point.

    MPG worked well when all vehicles used gas. Easy to compare costs if you know the consumption rate and what is being consumed is the same. But if the vehicles are powered by different substances then the way to compare them is on costs. Not on efficiency. So +1 to those suggesting a measure like dollar/mile or mile/dollar.

    Personally I like the efficiency measure. No objection to having it on the sticker. But it needs to be substantially de-emphsized.

    While we’re on the subject, the EPA should also revise the way it presents costs. Rather than giving an “under/over” number for the year, it should just give the cost for a month. That fits better with how the consumer thinks about cars, which unfortunately is “how much per month?”. That would make it easy to compare rough costs. It’s not hard to figure out whether a car payment of $199/month + fuel costs of $199/month is better or worse than a car payment of $250/month + fuel cost of $50/month. It would be especially helpful in the used car market, where a lot of cars change hands.


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    Paul

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (11:24 am)

    MPGe is fun for academics and green car aficionados and tech lovers to discuss, but is meaningless for 99% of the consuming public. And as we have seen it is impossible to know if we can trust the numbers as published.

    It took the EPA 30 years to come up with an MPG number for ICE cars that is reasonably close to what drivers experience, we should expect a similar iteration pattern for attempts to tell potential Plug-in buyers something about energy cost that will be meaningful to them.

    To make this harder, most potential buyers don’t understand that the difference between 15 mpg and 25 mpg is MUCH greater than the difference between 40MPG and 50 MPG in terms of cost and environmental and petroleum policy impact. This is all pretty esoteric stuff.

    When discussing my volt with an uninitiated person, I first ask them about THEIR driving and Their gasoline use, and then I convert that to a $$ of Gasoline a month number in my head, and when they say “yea..” I then tell them, how much the volt costs me for the same driving (again, not esoteric discussions) I just say ” you spend about $230/month on Gas then right?” “I spend $30 on gas and $55 on electricity for the same driving” But each person’s driving needs are unique to them and no “simplifying” number is going to cover all the ground for a broad swath of the car buying public.

    Also, remember that we are riding the downhill wave of gasoline supply/demand changes caused by the 2007 price spike. As in 1986 (from the 1979 gas price spike (3x in some places)); automakers now can make far more highly efficient cars than the public wants to buy.

    Finally: As long as gas meanders between $3. and $4/ gallon, the buying public won’t care about efficiency numbers. Instead, they (we) will buy more and more “light trucks” (suvs, pickups, large cuvs, minivans etc) which have desirable driving characteristics for many drivers but do not have to meet the sedan CAFE number squeeze.

    do you believe the “$3B lost” number in an earlier post. I don’t, I’m not sure it would be possible to spend $3B on development of one car. Maybe $700M to $1B, to develop and tool up and startup, but $3B??? and having sold 60,000 plus vehicles, there is some recovery: at $10K overhead coverage per car, there would be $600M of recovery so far.


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    Viking79

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (11:24 am)

    Simple, put miles per kWh on the label (or kWh/100 miles). For dual fuel vehicles put both measures on it, miles per kWh and miles per gallon. They could also add some simple calculations based on energy cost for the past year, like cost to drive 10 miles without recharging. Could also calculate for other distances, like 75 and 150 miles or something. For an EV with a range of only 80 miles could say (insufficient range for single charge).


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    Raymondjram

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (11:31 am)

    I cannot accept the EPA ratings as a “cost” because they use a cost value that will not apply for the great majority of the population, and even less for me. This is why I am in favor of a physical and measureable efficiency value for every EV on sale. Let the consumer calculate the local cost based on the true physical metric.

    For an example, my local kWh cost is $0.27 so a Volt that can get 4.5 miles per kWh will cost me $0.06 per mile. An ICEV which gets 30 MPG, and at a local gas price of $0.897 per liter or $3.39 per gallon will cost me $0.11 per mile. There is the cost calculation that any smart consumer can do.

    If you are smart enough to pass the driver’s test, you are smart enough to do this simple calculation for any vehicle you can buy. If not, the consumer deserved to be fooled by the salesperson!

    Raymond


  33. 33
    Dana

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (11:50 am)

    Electricity prices aren’t transparent?? If it is not on your monthly bill, you better contact the CA Attorney General. Here in Seattle my latest bill showed $.0506 per KWH for the first 610 KWH and $.1149 for the next tier.

    Also, the public plug in stations locally were free for the first year due to stimulus money regulations I believe, but they are now charging $1.50 to $2.00 per hour. 10 miles for $1.5 yields .15 for mile, while at home it costs .03. Thank goodness I have a Volt; it is more cost effective to run the generator (.10 per mile at 40mpg) and leave the charging to home or someplace it is free.

    By the way, the last time I got gas was in February and just yesterday I got the diagnostic that the engine would run to make room for new gas, since the Volt thinks the gas is likely to become stale. Good thing I am going on a 300 mile trip in a few days; the gas will now be put to good use. I wish I could have postponed the engine as I am able to do for engine maintenance mode, but I won’t be going to far until I leave. Also I noticed that with a full charge, (44 miles these summer days), even though the display shows engine, it doesn’t actually kick in until my electric range drops to 41; I guess to prevent overcharging the batteries in regen or whatever.


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    Frank

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (11:53 am)

    Mr.Viking79 you took the words right out of my mouth, this is the best way to explain it. It is in fact a new way to drive a car, no longer a gas car but electric, so stop comparing it to a gas car. When you plan a long trip/vacation and you’re thinking about renting a RV winnebago, you calculate the cost of this thing by how many miles it can do per gallon, then you calculate what it would cost you to rent a hotel room per night, you compare and make up your mind if it’s worht the rental of the RV.

    If you know that where you are going the cost of gas is much higher than where you live after making such calculations you realize, forget the RV it’s too expensive, so you book hotel or motel rooms on your journey.

    This new animal, electric cars needs to be compared in such a way. Miles per KWH is the best, you’ll only need to know what you pay on your electric bill, then the comparison can begin.

    40 miles on a charge! $0.07 a Kwh, need 10 for 40 miles, $0.70 for 40 miles. Gas, 40 mile per gallon car, Canada – $5.60 a gallon / US average $3.50 a gallon. Devide your $5.60 or $3.50 by $0.70 and you got your difference in cost from an electric verses a gas car.

    A no brainer.


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (12:11 pm)

    kdawg,

    Er……don’t recall him ever being F1 World Champion.


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (12:14 pm)

    I notice many manufacturers tires of plug-in parallel hybrids brag a lot over their high MPGe numbers. I think this is deceptive because the electric motor only operates a lower speeds in most, if not all of these vehicles. Thus, the MPGe figures for these vehicles are calculated only over the lower speed region of operation unlike full electrics which have to design for total electric operation.


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    Dave-Phoenix

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (12:20 pm)

    larry4pyro:
    I notice many manufacturers tires of plug-in parallel hybrids brag a lot over their high MPGe numbers.I think this is deceptive because the electric motor only operates a lower speeds in most, if not all of these vehicles.Thus, the MPGe figures for these vehicles are calculated only over the lower speed region of operation unlike full electrics which have to design for total electric operation.

    Which is why the Volt should not be considered a plug in hybrid, and the term EREV is more appropriate.


  38. 38
    Jackson

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (12:41 pm)

    Voting is back, at least for now.


  39. 39
    Jeff Cobb

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (12:45 pm)

    Jackson: Voting is back, at least for now.

    Yes, I asked them to restore it. Do you all like the voting capability?


  40. 40
    Loboc

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (12:48 pm)

    Raymondjram,

    “I read that most Volt owners get between 4 and 4.5 miles per kWh, and the best can reach 5 miles per kWh, which means that its 10.5 kWh charge gives it a range of 55 miles.”

    10.5 x 5 = 52.5 miles which ignores energy used by systems such as steering, brakes, HVAC, lights, and even the radio. This also ignores the battery differences between various model years.

    Officially, GM says that the range is between 25 and 50 miles. EPA says 38 since GM did not re-certify cars with larger batteries.


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    john1701a

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (1:11 pm)

    larry4pyro: I think this is deceptive because the electric motor only operates a lower speeds in most, if not all of these vehicles.

    That’s a misconception.

    The electric-motor continues to draw from the battery-pack at high-speeds. The gas-engine joins in to provide assist then, which is how a plug-in hybrid like Prius is able to deliver +100 MPG while on the highway at 65 mph.

    Plug-Supplied Electricity is taken advantage of regardless of when the engine runs. That’s why MPGe was created. Obviously, people didn’t understand that… hence this topic and the misconception.

    Stating efficiency in terms of GALLONS and KWH consumed over a specific distance is the only realistic why of conveying efficiency… since as we well know, a single number like MPG doesn’t tell the full story of how much fuel was actually consumed. MPGe has a similar shortcoming.


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    Loboc

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (1:12 pm)

    From the article:
    “However, the uncertainty about variable electricity prices adds just as much confusion to the mix.

    “Electricity prices are not only variable, they are not at all transparent. You can’t look them up on PG&E’s Web site. So it is almost impossible to make this calculation until you actually drive the car home and try it out for a while and then look at your utility bill.””

    What?

    My electric rate is fixed on a 12-month contract. It costs pretty much the same every charge.

    Volt uses so few KWh compared to other things in my house, I can’t even see a difference. (Last month I used over 4,000 KWh. Volt uses ~ 260KWh/month since I don’t drive 40 miles every day. That’s about 30 bucks.)

    Even if you have a peak billing plan, you still know how much it costs to use electricity.

    The only thing that is unpredictable is the cost of gasoline which ranged from 3.889 to 3.349 so far this year. Somewhere around a 14% swing. Thankfully I only fill up every month or so.


  43. 43
    Loboc

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (1:18 pm)

    Jeff Cobb,

    I think voting is good as long as it is not abused.

    We (the forum members) use voting not only to agree or disagree but to push some posts (such as yours) into ‘green’ status so that it is easily visible when scrolling through the daily posts.


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    Loboc

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (1:21 pm)

    kdawg,

    Go figure. A driver endorsed by GM buying a Chevy. Makes no sense.


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    Loboc

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (1:26 pm)

    john1701a: Using KWH instead, there is no doubt. Capacity for Volt is now 17.1 kWh. Capacity for Prius PHV is currently 4.4 kWh. That is unequivocally a little more than 1/4 the capacity.

    Ok, ok. 25.730994% or around one quarter.


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    Dave86

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (1:33 pm)

    Dump MPGe for “miles per KWHr” and be sure to include “all electric range”, both city and highway. 4 numbers. Such as:

    CITY: 5.2 miles/KWHr & 273 miles range
    HIGHWAY: 3.2 miles/KWHr & 168 miles range

    It’s funny: I follow electric car development as a hobby, and yet I don’t understand exactly what MPGe is. And frankly, I don’t care to.


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    john1701a

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (1:44 pm)

    Dave86: It’s funny: I follow electric car development as a hobby, and yet I don’t understand exactly what MPGe is. And frankly, I don’t care to.

    Same here. I didn’t see the value in it to the ordinary consumer. For those who ask about it, their interpretation is typically missing some bit of background to fully follow its intent/meaning. Then, there are others who don’t even notice the difference between MPG and MPGe.

    It’s too bad we don’t use GALLONS/100-MILES instead of MPG. That quantity/distance approach is so much more informative.


  48. 48
    Raymondjram

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (1:45 pm)

    I see that voting has returned. Thanks, Jeff!

    A lot of posts here deserve a positive vote from me. For the others, I don’t give any, especially to john who doesn’t need my votes at all. He gets the negative votes he deserves from others.

    Raymond


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    kdawg

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (2:01 pm)

    Philip,

    Loboc,

    The point was guys involved w/race cars are interested in electric cars. The article also mentioned Rick Hendrick who is the current owner of the American NASCAR team, also bought a Volt.

    I’m sure there’s lots of other examples.. but I think the stigma attached to EV’s is starting to change. It helps when you have cars like Tesla and Porsche are putting out, but even the Volt is winning over “gas-heads”.


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    Jim I

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (2:08 pm)

    The problem with the Volt is that uses both electricity and gasoline to power the vehicle.

    That makes it hard to say what the fuel efficiency is.

    When I am talking to people about my Volt, I use the cost to fuel my car per week, month, or year.

    I was asked yesterday how much my electric bill went up charging the Volt. He was really surprised when I said about $25.00 per month. He said it was impossible to drive a car for $25.00 per month. I laughed and said that it actually costs me about $41.00 per month for fuel, because I also use about 4 gallons of gas per month. So my total fuel costs are just under $500.00 per year. The I also mentioned that I expect my brake pads to last the life of the car, and that if I keep the Volt for 10 years, I will have five oil changes total.

    Then I asked him how that compared to the Jeep he was driving. He said he pays almost 4 times that per month for fuel alone!!!

    Those are the numbers that get people thinking…..

    JMHO

    Jim – C-5277


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    Dave-Phoenix

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (2:26 pm)

    Loboc:
    From the article:
    “However, the uncertainty about variable electricity prices adds just as much confusion to the mix.

    “Electricity prices are not only variable, they are not at all transparent. You can’t look them up on PG&E’s Web site. So it is almost impossible to make this calculation until you actually drive the car home and try it out for a while and then look at your utility bill.””

    What?

    My electric rate is fixed on a 12-month contract. It costs pretty much the same every charge.

    Volt uses so few KWh compared to other things in my house, I can’t even see a difference. (Last month I used over 4,000 KWh. Volt uses ~ 260KWh/month since I don’t drive 40 miles every day. That’s about 30 bucks.)

    Even if you have a peak billing plan, you still know how much it costs to use electricity.

    The only thing that is unpredictable is the cost of gasoline which ranged from 3.889 to 3.349 so far this year. Somewhere around a 14% swing. Thankfully I only fill up every month or so.

    I have to side with Loboc on this one…..

    Utilities make it very difficult for you to find the actual rate. Most utility web sites don’t post their rates.

    In Arizona, there is no flat rate for 12 months. Utilities use 3 different rate structures (Winter, Summer and “Peak Summer”). This is irrelevant as to which time-of-use plan you are using. It is very difficult to find out exactly how much you will pay for each of these plans unless you take your bill and use a calculator.

    Gasoline rates are not any easier to predict though, so automakers can’t publish cost/mile figures…

    I do think however, that electric cars should have a miles/KW rating listed instead of MPGe, just like in Europe.


  52. 52
    Charlie H

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (2:34 pm)

    Jim I: Then I asked him how that compared to the Jeep he was driving. He said he pays almost 4 times that per month for fuel alone!!!

    Does he really care? There are plenty of other fuel-efficient options on the market besides, “Jeep,” many of which would have been cheaper to buy.

    It’s like Loboc says…

    Loboc: Most people I know don’t worry about MPG or any other efficiency metric. What matters is utility and self-image. (Mostly self-image).


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    Charlie H

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (2:36 pm)

    kdawg,

    That article was from 2011. I’d bet he got a most excellent deal on the car, having something to do with Chevy’s promotional budget.


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    Dave-Phoenix

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (2:52 pm)

    john1701a: That’s a misconception.

    The electric-motor continues to draw from the battery-pack at high-speeds.The gas-engine joins in to provide assist then, which is how a plug-in hybrid like Prius is able to deliver +100 MPG while on the highway at 65 mph.

    Plug-Supplied Electricity is taken advantage of regardless of when the engine runs.That’s why MPGe was created.Obviously, people didn’t understand that… hence this topic and the misconception.

    Stating efficiency in terms of GALLONS and KWH consumed over a specific distance is the only realistic why of conveying efficiency… since as we well know, a single number like MPG doesn’t tell the full story of how much fuel was actually consumed.MPGe has a similar shortcoming.

    There is no misconception.

    At higher speeds and heavy acceleration the gasoline provides assistance. You have to drive like a little old lady to only use the electric motor.

    It makes sense that if you drive like a little old lady, you will get a higher MPGe rating compared to other EV’s/EREV’s, where the electric motor does all the work, all the time.


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (2:58 pm)

    James McQuaid: G.M.’s marketing has had such a terrible time trying to advertise the Volt that they should stop trying to sell it as an “electric” car, and just sell it as a car. That alone would be a substantial improvement over not marketing it at all

    I’m starting to think this is the best approach as well. The people who want to understand can get into the details, for the rest it’s just a nice car and you don’t have to go the gas station very often. The fifth seat will help, if only so that it’s just like any other compact car.


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    steve

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (2:58 pm)

    Problem is more like many people simply can’t or can’t be bothered to understand that much about technology. Video recorders had to be designed to set their own clocks partly because too many couldn’t or couldn’t be bothered figuring it out.

    MPGe isn’t that difficult a concept. Many don’t even get the distinction between kilowatts and kilowatt- hours though. It’s depressing how simple it has to be for some to get the idea.


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (3:14 pm)

    Dana: Electricity prices aren’t transparent?? If it is not on your monthly bill, you better contact the CA Attorney General.

    I can easily find out my cost for power per kWh, which is clearly communicated based on time of use during the day. But on top of that charge there are a series of additional charges, and fees, for distribution, debt recovery, and others, some are flat and some are fixed, then there are discounts and we arrive at the final total.

    I’m an engineer at an electric utility, and I can’t exactly figure out what that those specific kWh that go into my car actually cost me, while the cost of gas is up on a big sign. :)


  58. 58
    Dave G

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (3:39 pm)

    Viking79: Simple, put miles per kWh on the label (or kWh/100 miles). For dual fuel vehicles put both measures on it, miles per kWh and miles per gallon.

    That’s all there already (see below). The problem is that there are too many numbers on the EPA sticker. Count ‘em:
    1) MPGe
    2) kW-hrs per 100 miles
    3) MPG
    4) Gallons per 100 miles
    5) Fuel cost savings over 5 years
    6) All-electric range
    7) Total range
    8) Annual fuel cost
    9) Fuel economy and greenhouse gas rating
    10) Smog rating

    With this much info, no wonder consumers are confused.

    volt_epa_sticker_zps9c4c5d8e.jpg

    If it were up to me, I would eliminate:
    1) MPGe
    4) Gallons per 100 miles
    8) Annual fuel cost
    9) Fuel economy and greenhouse gas rating
    10) Smog rating


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (3:42 pm)

    I believe it is better to have two numbers, miles on the battery and mpg once it is running on gasoline only, rather than try to combine apples and oranges into one number.


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (3:46 pm)

    Breezy,

    I think you just take the higher $/kwh tier since that is what you will additionally be paying to charge a car. The other overhead and first tier of rate you would be paying anyway so I would say it is not really a factor for the cost of charging.


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (4:08 pm)

    Charlie H: That article was from 2011. I’d bet he got a most excellent deal on the car, having something to do with Chevy’s promotional budget.

    Actually he paid $225,000 for it.


  62. 62
    Jeff Cobb

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (4:23 pm)

    Energy Independence?

    I’m researching the topic of energy independence and am curious if any of you can point me to documents, articles, facts to add to the discussion?

    An article by Daniel Yergin, in dramatic fashion, says the rug has been (at least somewhat) pulled out from the impetus behind electrification. …

    Excerpt (but read the whole article before commenting)

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/11/congratulations-america-youre-almost-energy-independent-now-what-98985.html#.U_uLhVb6QrU

    “For four decades, whenever the American political debate turned to energy, the discussion was all about shortage and scarcity, a reality that haunted the United States ever since the global oil crises of the 1970s.

    That conversation is over.” …

    “Now, “energy independence” is back in vogue, not as a joke but as a serious topic of political discussion. It’s not likely that the United States will actually become energy independent in the foreseeable future, but it will certainly become energy a-lot-less-dependent.” …

    “Obama’s own words are another way to measure the stark change in the politics of energy that has occurred on his watch. In his first two State of the Union addresses, the president mentioned the words “natural gas” just once. But in his 2012 address, he talked about the need for an “all-of-the-above” energy strategy and gave more time to oil and gas than to the promise of developing alternative sources like wind and solar. He has frequently cited the job creation resulting from shale. In a major climate speech this past June, he declared, “We should strengthen our position as the top natural gas producer because, in the medium term at least, it not only can provide safe, cheap power, but it can also help reduce our carbon emissions.” …

    “Over most of the past 40 years, the idea that the United States could even be talking about such an issue would have seemed improbable, even ridiculous. But that will very likely be part of the political debate in 2014, and a hot part—a clear demonstration of just how much the way America talks and thinks about energy is changing. What would Richard Nixon say now?”

    ###

    My question – Is this spin spun out of control in your view? Or is it an accurate summation?


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    Noel Park

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (4:32 pm)

    hvacman:
    We had this debate on the forum years ago when the EPA first rolled out this kludge of an efficiency number. As we mostly agreed then and I still believe now – PHEV’s are a different animal, can’t be compared to ICE-powered vehicles, and the EPA, in attempting to assemble a single number to do it, really screwed it up. PHEV’s need three numbers – Gas miles per gallon, electric miles per kWh, and all-electric range in miles.

    #25

    I’m with you. +1

    Thanks Jeff for bringing back the voting. The occasional hijacking doesn’t bother me nearly enough to justify doing away with it.


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    CaptJackSparrow

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (4:36 pm)

    I’m a basic old Hillbilly Simpleton.
    All one really needs to know is how far a PHEV can go on a full charge and what it get’s after when the ICE kicks in hybrid mode for the rest of the drive.

    No need to know the mpge, it’s a load of nonsense.

    While driving in EV mode, it’s like I always say, “If the Beers cold then……”


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (4:45 pm)

    Jeff Cobb: Energy Independence?
    I’m researching the topic of energy independence and am curious if any of you can point me to documents, articles, facts to add to the discussion?

    My question – Is this spin spun out of control in your view? Or is it an accurate summation?

    I think its positive that politicians now realize this as a marathon and not a sprint. We need short, medium, and long term solutions.

    I do believe we can be truly energy independent in a couple of decades, but only if there is some external force propelling it. The most probable force will be peak oil, and much higher gas prices.

    By the way, if you haven’t been there already, check out http://www.setamericafree.org/


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (5:35 pm)

    Dave-Phoenix: You have to drive like a little old lady to only use the electric motor.

    I climb out of the river valley at 55 mph using only the electric motor. Not sure what you’d call that. Old man?

    But the misconception was that the electric-motor was not being used at all while on the highway. Clearly, that isn’t the case, as this shows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxm4W1ysQD0

    The point is the KWH available is still being taken advantage of at all speeds.


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    Streetlight

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (6:02 pm)

    In pure tech terms, DOE rendered a most easily understood single-dimensioned 50+ year old universal metric– MPG and mangled it into a multi-faceted acronym. MPGe represents DOE’s compromise between competing interests to quantify all-electric range with range extending capability by adding a simple lower-case e to MPG acronym. Recall as GM in 2010-2011 conducted its testing of VOLT then DOE had no idea how it would label a plug-in EREV.

    Obviously one cannot revamp a generic meaning as DOE did here — where gallons appear in ‘MPG’ and then expect the public to somehow reconcile ‘gallons’ in MPG be equated with the lower case ‘e’ for electric. Of course its confusing. Its tough enough to educate without inexplicable irritations.


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (7:03 pm)

    Jeff Cobb: Energy Independence?

    Energy independence is an awesome topic. Very important.

    Developing energy independence would help lead to eliminating the trade deficit. And some of us believe, oddly enough, that there is a correlation between having a trade deficit and having a budget deficit.


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (7:55 pm)

    Jeff Cobb:
    Energy Independence?

    Jeff,

    Here are the annual energy projections from the DOE.

    http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/index.cfm


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    Aug 25th, 2014 (8:16 pm)

    Developing energy independence would help lead to eliminating the trade deficit.And some of us believe, oddly enough, that there is a correlation between having a trade deficit and having a budget deficit.

    Regarding the trade deficit, I always liked the Warren Buffet plan.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-johnson/balancing-trade—remembe_b_5250733.html

    Seems like a common sense approach.


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    Dave G

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    Aug 25th, 2014 (10:05 pm)

    Dave86: Developing energy independence would help lead to eliminating the trade deficit.

    Or to put it another way, we’ll never be able to eliminate the trade deficit without alternatives to oil.


  72. 72
    Sean

     

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    Aug 26th, 2014 (2:14 am)

    Guys I don’t know anything about marketing but like I said in the past if you’ve worked for GM and know how marketing works I would change the MPGe to something a whole lot simpler so that the general public gets the point about PHEVS, EREVS, and EV’S.

    Also I would make a tutorial video that would introduce the general public to a PHEV, EREV, or an EV and other videos by showing very detailed stuff as in how the batteries work to facts on very little maintenance cost these cars don’t require especially EV’S and at the same time I would try to keep it in a way where these tutorial videos don’t confuse the everyday average Joe at all so that they get it and as well I wish there could be a video that describes the differences of toque VS horse power to the advantages of 0 RPM.

    If you know marketing try experimenting on these things so that you get your customers buying PHEVS, EREVS, and even EV’S.

    Give it a go!

    Or if you work for GM’S corporate office try inspiring them this could make there strategy go from F+ to A+.

    The Future Is Electric Not Hydrogen!


  73. 73
    computer crash

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    computer crash
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    Aug 26th, 2014 (2:15 am)

    (click to show comment)


  74. 74
    Tim Shevlin

     

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    Aug 26th, 2014 (2:33 am)

    At the end of most trips I check the leaf to see how much I achieved over or sometimes under the consensus “good” electric mileage of 4 mi. / kWh. This is a figure we all get to know early in our EV experience. Now, Chevy, give me continuous, driver-selectable dash readouts of Instantaneous and Average electric consumption since last full charge in mi. Per kWh- just like many cars have offered for gas consumption for many years.


  75. 75
    Thomas J. Thias

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    Aug 26th, 2014 (3:09 am)

    MPGe MPGSmheee, Or Maybe, About What It Should Be…..

    My Turn-

    By all reconing, as I will argue below, MPGe is accurate as hell, when running only on Electric Fuel; ahem, 100% American Made Electric Fuel, by the way!

    OBSERVATION’S/

    At 32,717 Miles of robust driving in my 2012 MY Chevy Volt Extended Range Electric Vehicle, since March of 2012, at 97% EV,I have come to the conclusion that:

    I AM DRIVING A TRUE ELECTRIC CAR!

    In the mild and warmer months I average 40+ miles per Charge/Electric Fuel Fill Up, for about a buck a day.

    Everyone is right when they say that an accurate scientific metric in this reguard is a moving target.

    But, I must use what I have in front of me, real world.

    The cost of a gallon of gas in Michigan is now averaging $3.50 a gallon.
    The cost of a kWh of Electric Fuel cost .0123 ¢.

    I average 4 miles+ per kWh in robust city/suburban commuting with high speed freeway thrown in almost daily.

    Michigan may of not made it to the Final Four in basketball last spring but the dollar cost per gallon, gas, did.

    Since the first of the year, according to Gas Buddy Dot Com, Michigan been in the Final Four of most expensive cost per gallon gas states in late February through early March, and in the top ten most expensive states per gallon in April and into June of 2014, pushing $4 per gallon of regular.

    On the other end of the spectrum of this, “Wack A Mole” states, zone shifting, cost for a gallon of gas, the states of Lousiana, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas and Virgina have, since the first of the year hovered at or under $3.25 a gallon.
    They still remain this way.

    So, lets use this formula with a nod to the EPA’s calculated MPGe using the Michigan metric that I have to work with.

    I will use the sum of just $3.00 a gallon for my premise, as not one state’s gas gallon average cost is this low as of this, at this hour, on this day.

    In mild and warm temps, I average 40 miles+ per charge. Note, I do drive 99% of the time in sport and “L”, maximising the self charging aspect of my Chevy Volt EREV.

    With warm and mild temps, regen adding 4- 7 miles of range in robust in city, suburban commuting, daily, my Electric Fuel Costs average less then a buck a day.

    I average, as I have stated, 40 miles, plus per charge or as I like to call it, with the standard 110V AC overnight fill-up.

    I also plug in at the office using an old outside 110V AC outlet.

    So again, assuming a $3.00 cost for a gallon of gas, the average car will travel 24 miles per EPA statistics.

    For $3.00 worth of American Made Electric Fuel, at 40 miles+ per fill up/charge, I can travel 120 miles, city/suburban.

    When gas spikes pushing $4.00 a gallon as it has many times in Michigan since, January and currently is pushing that for the states of California, Hawaii, Alaska, Washington and Oregon then the formula pushes out even more.

    At $4.00 a gallon gas equivelent I can drive 160 miles in my Chevy Volt EREV, city/suburban driving, with some top speed freeway thrown in of course.

    This is flat out insane range per unit cost of motive power, and gain, American Made motive power at that, vs gasoline!

    Quite frankly, outside of the Chevy Volt, Opel/Vauxhall Ampera Extended Range Electric Vehicle’s, Holden Volt Long Range Electric Vehicle and even the Stunning Cadillac ELR Eltended Range Electiric Luxury Coupe, no PHEV on the planet can touch this miles driven vs gas burned!

    So, this is why the Voltec Drivetrain is called an Electric Vehicle with Extended Range capabilities or EREV for short!

    In closing the stated MPGe for my Chevy Volt Exended Range Electric Vehicle, at 98 MPGe is very understated for my real time results of 120 to 160 miles per $4 worth of Electric Fuel, 9 months of the year in mild to warm weather driving, again assuming somewhere between $3 to $4 dollars a gallon of gas.

    LInks For Source Data-

    1) Gas Buddy dot Com-

    http://www.gasbuddy.com/GB_Price_List.aspx?cntry=USA

    2) My Captured OnStar Data At 32,000 Miles- (Click On The Gas Pump Icon To View 10,000 On One Tank Of Gas!)

    http://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/1068

    3) Some 1,800 Volt Drivers, North America Opting In With Their OnStar Data-

    http://www.voltstats.net/

    4) Even A Handfull Of Stunning Cadillac ELR Owners, North America, Opting In With Their OnStar Data-

    http://www.voltstats.net/ELR

    Heh, “Take Your Gas And Shove It, Ain’t Buying Much No More…”

    Miles Per Gallon Equivelent, MPGe, when driving 100% all electric in a Voltec Platform Vehicle, is a little light in my book, as I see it, IMHO.

    Best-

    Thomas J. Thias

    Sundance Chevrolet Inc.

    517-749-0532

    Twitter.com/AmazingChevVolt


  76. 76
    Charles Lovings

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    Aug 26th, 2014 (12:55 pm)

    GSP
    Cost per kilowatt-hour is easily calculated from your monthly electric bill. It is simply the total monthly electric cost divided by the number of kilowatt-hours used. Note if you are on a balanced payment plan, don’t use your monthly payment, used the cost as reported on your bill.


  77. 77
    Charlie H

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    Aug 26th, 2014 (2:00 pm)

    kdawg: here are plenty of other fuel-efficient options on the market besides, “Jeep,” many of which

    You misread the article. Rick Hendrick bought a Volt at a charity auction for $225K.