Aug 11

Review & video – 2014 Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid vs. Tesla Model S

 

Is this a no-brainer? In any event, hope ya’ll like it …

2014_Porsche_Panamera_S_E-Hybrid_Tesla_Model_S_001
 

Unlike misbegotten comparos between barely similar plug-in cars pitted together mainly because they run on grid power, a Porsche vs. Tesla shootout is almost valid.

The rear-wheel-driven standard 85-kwh Tesla Model S and Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid both target similar demographics with comparable curb weight, dimensions, 0-60 time, and glamor. Given one’s an EV, however, and the other a PHEV, they’re otherwise worlds apart.

Therefore this is yet another apple-to-orange matchup. With nary a compromise as endured by lesser EVs, the Model S remains in a category of one and people have noticed.


 

This year Tesla sold an estimated 9,400 through June in the U.S. versus 544 S E-Hybrids. But not to single out Porsche, the Model S is handily walking all over other German, U.S., and Asian upscale luxury performance sedans in that most important arena: the sales race.

Considering this plus the Model S is a nearly pure expression of a maverick vision, Tesla clearly wins. Or does it? Obviously some disagree and a prominent UK publication this year did name the Porsche the winner.

To each his own. What one prefers could reveal good taste and clear judgment – or biases and misinformation. We’ll not speculate who exhibits what, but will venture to compare as long as it’s understood these cars are as dissimilar as much as they are similar.

Proud German Heritage

 
Porsche’s S E-Hybrid was the biggest news during last fall’s otherwise subtle mid-cycle refresh for its Panamera line now boasting 10 variants, with the most-dear fetching maybe $300,000 if you go crazy with options.

The $99,000-plus four-seater replaced the Panamera S Hybrid after only two years on the market and got a 9.4-kwh battery, charge port, and doubly sized 95 horsepower, 229-pound-feet electric motor for part-time EV capability.

Blurring the green vision however is a gas engine. In this case, a 333-horsepower 3.0-liter supercharged V6 adds to a total system power of 416 horsepower, 435 pounds-feet torque.

2014 Porsche_Panamera_S-Hybrid
 

Now that dust has settled from press releases touting the Porsche-with-a-plug’s up to “22 miles” electric range and fuel efficiency up to 84 mpg during a European Porsche-staged mileage contest, federally enforced reality has set in.

The Porsche is EPA rated at 50 MPGe – well below 89 MPGe for Tesla’s 85-kwh Model S, and the 60-kwh version’s 98 MPGe. It’s also less than the 37-mile-range Cadillac ELR’s 82 MPGe. Porsche’s EPA-estimated electric range is 15 miles, or 16 “Elec+Gas.”

In regular hybrid mode, once battery capacity one-ninth that of the Tesla 85′s runs out, the S E-Hybrid is rated at 25 mpg combined – respectable for a 4,600-4,900 pound car, but not astonishing.

Proud American Mold Breaker

 

The Model S we review here with thanks to its owner is not the quickest P85+, but rather the regular 85 kwh.

The approximately 4,800-pound car is rated at 362 horsepower (270 kwh) from 6,000-9,500 rpm. Torque is 325 pounds-feet (440 Nm) – less than the Porsche, but full torque is from 0-5,800 rpm.

gas-less
 

Its floor-mounted battery centers the weight low, and can take advantage of a growing free-access Supercharger network to complement its 265-mile-range.

Outside and in the Model S is simplicity exemplified. It seats five adults and optionally two more kids in rear-facing jump seats. The clean-sheet design is a thesis statement in space utilization.

And so far the formula is working for the gas-free gambit from a company with a point to prove. Not hurting things is the cult of personality surrounding the every day hip billionaire Elon Musk who’s crusading to benefit the world – if not also to make his life story required reading for future history classes into perpetuity.

Face Off

 

Tesla’s Model S is actually a range of configurations based on the 60-kwh or 85-kwh battery and costs from $72,000 to low 130s for a packed P85+.

The Panamera S E-Hybrid starts at $99,000, and per Porsche practice, the bottom line engorges at an alarming rate with options.

2014_Tesla_Model_S_Porsche_S-E-Hybrid
 

Cars we sampled were just shy of $90,000 for the Tesla, with base price of $81,070, and the Porsche as equipped was $131,000.

Design-wise, Porsche’s family sedan has upset purists with the elongated profile that borrows the 911′s front end, and like many Americans, has grown to bulbous proportions it attempts to hide. Aesthetically, it does have some nice angles, but Porsche fans have said cars like the Panamera and Cayenne SUV help pay for the truly focused drivers’ cars from Stuttgart.

The Model S appropriated design elements from other vehicles to conglomerate a high-end sedan for a start-up with finite funds. Its rear clip is borrowed from a Jaguar XF, but its closed-grille sleekness cuts a 0.24 coefficient of drag and most consider it more attractive, if not a bit generic.

Is that a Tesla? No, 2010 Jaguar XF.

Is that a Tesla? No, it’s a 2010 Jaguar XF.

Power-wise, the Model S flicks to 60 in an estimated 5.4 seconds, though some have seen it match the Porsche’s estimated 5.2. Top speed is a different matter. The single-speed Model S is limited to 125 mph for this configuration. The 8-speed Porsche is limited to 167 mph. Tesla likes to tout its simplicity, but it also saved engineering and production costs.

Efficiency wise, Tesla wins 10 out of 10 green car points – and a chocolate macadamia nut cookie from mom, a gold star from the teacher, and a pat on the back from Barack Obama.

On the flip side, some have postulated Porsche – and now Mercedes – has it backwards. As GM has shown with the Volt and ELR, and BMW with the i8, more power could come from the electric motor(s), and the gas engine could be smaller.

Frankly, the powertrain formula Porsche and other plug-in hybrids use do create ostensible bragging rights, but a jaundiced eye could see greenwashed ringers fabricated to ace a test – the EPA’s.

It’s all well and good when the battery is charged, and a zero-emission, zero-mpg electric motor does the heavy lifting. But the finite energy ends too soon, and what you’re left with is a hybrid that gets 25 mpg if used like a Camry, but if used like the Porsche it is, mileage sinks to the low 20s to low teens.

tesla_following
 

But the Tesla doesn’t run for free either – unless you plug into a Supercharger or solar. And in any case, it can sap efficiency and range if driven like you stole it.

Some have observed the point of having a high-performance sedan is so that it may … highly perform.

Bottom line: either car may be nursed to maximum mileage but hard use wastes energy in the name of fun.

Click to enlarge.

Click to enlarge.

That the Tesla emits nothing and is thriftier with the kilowatts is a huge plus. Additionally, electricity when it is paid for is generally cheaper. The EPA pegs Model S cost per mile at 4.5 cents versus 10.8 cents for the Panamera S E-Hybrid assuming charged battery and averaged fuel pricing, or 15.5 cents if it isn’t charged. Estimated energy costs for 15,000 miles per year are $700 for the Tesla, or $1,900 for the Porsche.

But the Porsche does still costs less to fuel than average internal combustion cars. Considering the demographic these vehicles cater to, the not-insubstantial $100 Teslas save per month might be valued as much for its satisfaction on principle, and buyers of neither car need fear suffering want for all the expense.

Further, aside from the tranny delete, Tesla saves itself money in ways that are not necessarily better. Its simple interior does display what others might call de-contenting, whereas the Porsche packs accoutrements, nice little touches, and does it up right, German style. The Model S doesn’t even so much as come with door pockets or center console, but this is part of Tesla’s contrarian stance. And, Tesla does offer an industry best 17-inch touch screen that controls most functions. Plus, Tesla can download software updates from time to time, so the car can evolve to a point. Pretty clever.

backs
 

In the final analysis however, the Porsche comes across a step above on the luxury scale, though some may disagree. Undeniable is Porsche builds on a legacy of a company that is tops in its game and no one can accuse it of trying to bluff its way into the big leagues.

If Tesla did not exist, the Panamera S E-Hybrid would be more clearly seen as a pinnacle among alternative tech. Its appeal is primarily a multi-legged stool held up by 1) Porsche’s reputation, 2) much higher performance than a Prius plug-in or Chevy Volt, 4) ability to run over a dozen miles with zero gas, 4) styling and techno-gee-whiz factor, 5) extremely nice build quality, attention to detail (see number 1).

The fact that it sells like a Cadillac ELR has rarely been noticed because, well, it is a Porsche, not a perceived wanna-be as critics say when mercilessly pouncing on the Volt-based ELR – and as some have even said of self-promoting Tesla.

The ‘Experience’

Tesla and others call the whole ownership enchilada the “experience.” This cliché du jour already sounds tired to our ears, but characteristic of trite over-used expressions, it does summarize truth.

In this case, both cars are a pleasure to drive, but in different ways. Both make you feel special; both have a presence to them; both are smooth, comfortable, fast when desired.

Porsche_back
 

The intangible extra Tesla abundantly delivers is the knowledge that it is uses no gasoline, emits no hydrocarbons. It represents a societal movement in the face of the entrenched establishment as much as it is a means of transportation.

When owners feel their purchase is actually symbiotic support of the greater good, their zeal can become passionate among the more noble – or rabid among some.

With empathy for the cause, we’ll observe the Tesla does out-do the Porsche in sustainability, environmental friendliness, energy security, and it paves the way for more-affordable cars as soon as feasible. Further, any luxury carmaker would envy Tesla’s quiet ride interrupted only by wide grippy tires making themselves heard on the tarmac.

What the Porsche offers is zero range anxiety, high performance, comfort, style, part-time EV capability that may be enough for some. And, it barters the fact that this is an established brand that sends cars to Le Mans and many other racing events. Porsche’s heritage is competition, and for decades it’s been in the business of making testicular road dominators with few if any perceived compromises.

tesla34
 

That said, ride quality coupled with handling manners are superb for both – considering their heft. Remember. These are family sedans we’re talking about. Yes they preen with sporty intentions, and can back a lot of that posturing up, but race cars they are not.

Our Porsche did come with extra sticky wide upgraded 911-spec tires and wheels. The Model S has a super low center of gravity, and while the battery in the floor is advantageous, it can only work with the laws of physics, not defy them.

From a pure performance car standpoint, both are portly at around 4,800 pounds. They manage their bulk well but probably would make Lotus’ Colin Chapman cringe for the extra 1,500 pounds they carry compared to a real sports car like a Corvette Stingray (or possibly the 3,300-3,400-pound BMW i8).

The $30,000 custom-built carbon-fiber li-ion-powered electric drone was also interesting.

The $30,000 custom-built, carbon-fiber, li-ion-powered electric drone was also interesting.

Further, Teslas pushed on tracks have overheated their batteries, sending them into a sort of limp-home mode. Here, at least the Porsche could at up to 42 mph faster, which may partly explain why Porsche didn’t overly depart from the engine/transmission formula.

In sum, both cars have an element of lifestyle accessory to them. Priced as they are, they’re not bought only to save fuel or the environment. Where they couldn’t be any less alike is Porche represents the old guard. While maybe not an “amphibian,” as Elon Musk calls hybrids, in the eyes of some plug-in enthusiasts it looks like a dinosaur trying not to go extinct.

The Model S by contrast is an all-or-nothing experiment daring the world. But no one has ever seen one a decade old. Will it age like Paul Newman – or a classic air-cooled Porsche 911 – or will more issues than have already been discovered here and there begin to crop up?

The Verdict

 

If you like the Porsche, like who makes it, can live with its finite energy storage, and like that it can run without needing a recharge, it’s not a bad choice. Helping things along is – compared to a Volt or Prius – it’s is a more effective road weapon and a snazzier commuter.

If however you’re attune to what’s trending, and also love what Tesla is all about, clearly it is the winner.

2014_Tesla_Model_S_Porsche_S-E-Hybrid_01
 

But again, this is apple versus and orange. When someone other than Tesla produces a large all-electric sedan with similar range and performance, that will be the day a truly even comparison to the Model S can be drawn.

In the meantime, the upstart is crushing it in the sales wars and plowing the way for others to follow. This it’s doing while established players regroup, react, and make forward-looking statements to grapple with Tesla’s effrontery, not to mention government mandates that will make everyone clean up sooner or later.
 

Further Reading:

2014 Cadillac ELR Review – Video
Tesla Model S Review
Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid First Drive
2014 Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid Review – Video

This entry was posted on Monday, August 11th, 2014 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

COMMENTS: 34


  1. 1
    Mark Z

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (6:23 am)

    Jeff, another great review and thanks for showing the drone, I would have been asking if you hired a helicopter! The 21″ wheels on the P85 make a difference in handling, but can also be noisier. Much has changed since the first P85 two years ago. Tesla Motors added the P85+ and more recently, Michelin has tires for the 21″ wheels. While all of the extras add speed and traction, the top speed of 130 is still short of the Porsche.

    One area not mentioned is safety. Tesla has an excellent record and crash rating. It should be a consideration for those who value survivability in an auto accident. Unfortunately, Porsche did not test their vehicles where Tesla did. A comparison between these models is difficult to judge.

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-13/fast-furious-and-safe-porsches-and-other-elite-cars-dont-get-crash-testing

    After over 20 months and 26,000 miles, my P85 is holding up well. Battery range has dropped about 10 miles and has stayed the same for months. Software updates are less frequent yet improvements are expected. Little fender benders can be costly, so having a low deductible is recommended. Surprisingly, it cost less at the authorized body shop than swapping replaceable parts at the Tesla Service center. The clear bra option saved me a paint job when backing into a cement planter. Paint layers on the Tesla Model S are thin and must be treated gently for long life. Touchless car washes can help keep micro scratches to a minimum. Visiting a recommended detailer and learning proper car washing technique helps those who tackle the job themselves. Interiors can be scratched or worn if care is not taken. Like any car, TLC keeps Model S looking like new.

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  2. 2
    Dave G

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (6:52 am)

    It amazes me that, still, the Volt is the only fully electric vehicle with a fully capable range extender.

    By fully electric, I mean that the electric motor can power the car up to top speed.

    By now, I would have expected other car makers to offer high-end EREV sports cars, and then start working their way down to more affordable cars.

    As I’ve said in previous posts, the Porsche would have been better with a fully capable electric motor, probably around 400 hp, and a much smaller gas engine.

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  3. 3
    Eco_Turbo

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (7:32 am)

    Both cars seem to be teasers for what will be possible with better cheaper batteries, which may be available in the not so distant future.

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  4. 4
    GSP

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (7:35 am)

    The Porsche can not be truly smooth, at least not for long, needing to employ its reciprocating piston engine on almost every trip.

    Not only is the Tesla better, I also prefer the much less expensive Volt. The Volt outperforms the Porsche in almost all of the specs that really matter to me, like EV range, EV power, and even EV top speed.

    GSP

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  5. 5
    Rashiid Amul

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (7:47 am)

    No offense intended, but this Tesla looks like an old man’s car.

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  6. 6
    Raymondjram

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (8:14 am)

    I am 100% in favor of the Tesla Motors Model S. As for the Porsche, Ferdinand had the first hybrid idea 100 years ago and would like the new Panamera, but for me it is too little EV for too much money and too late to impact Ev sales, except for Porsche fans.

    Raymond

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  7. 7
    Nelson

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (8:22 am)

    What the Porsche offers is zero range anxiety… (today)

    In the years to come, as EV’s become mainstream and less gas is purchased, gas stations will close and the rage anxiety roles will flip. EV’s will be able to plug-in at every parking spot and gas powered cars will have a difficult time finding a gas station that still sells gas.

    NPNS! SBF!
    Volt#671

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  8. 8
    kdawg

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (8:36 am)

    Rashiid Amul: No offense intended, but this Tesla looks like an old man’s car.

    LOL, I feel the same way about both of them. Fingers crossed for something more sporty for the Model III (and no nose-cone).

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  9. 9
    Loboc

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (8:52 am)

    Using EV technology to enhance ICE weaknesses is a good mid-term strategy. Start/stop. Energy recovery. Electric boost for brakes, HVAC, steering across the entire fleet will make these upgrades cheaper due to volume production.

    Design once. Deploy everywhere.

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  10. 10
    DonC

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (10:20 am)

    Another car I won’t be buying! LOL Great comparison though. I’ve always thought that the demographic most likely to buy a Tesla would be the the one otherwise tempted by the Porsche Panamera, and here it is. Nice comparative review and fun to see Jeff in person.

    The problem for the Porsche is that it looks like the gas version. The Tesla has no gas version equivalent. More or less the same issue manufacturers had in getting their gas hybrids to compete against the Prius. Only the Prius was recognizable.

    As for being super fast and all that, whatever. I suspect though that in actual driving the Tesla would be faster. Like that Smart commercial points out, in real world driving it’s not 0-60 MPH that matters, more like 0-30 MPH or to 0-100 feet.

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  11. 11
    Blind Guy

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (11:01 am)

    The Porsche just makes me appreciate the AER of our 2013 Volt even more.

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  12. 12
    CaptJackSparrow

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (11:37 am)

    hey, OT but…..
    I’ve noticed a bunch of new GM SUV’s on the road lately. Did GM have a closeout/Firesale/clearance/whatever or something?

    I saw 3 of them on they way into work today and more over the weekend.

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  13. 13
    kdawg

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (12:22 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: hey, OT but…..
    I’ve noticed a bunch of new GM SUV’s on the road lately. Did GM have a closeout/Firesale/clearance/whatever or something?
    I saw 3 of them on they way into work today and more over the weekend.

    Gas prices went down…

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  14. 14
    CaptJackSparrow

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (12:49 pm)

    kdawg: Gas prices went down…

    Ugh, they just won’t learn.

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  15. 15
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (1:03 pm)

    As some may recall, I’ve been skeptical of turbos in EREVs simply because performance is set by the electrical components, not the internal combustion engine (which merely turns a generator as efficiently as possible). In contrast, Porsche, a pillar of the internal combustion religion, can hardly take EV tech as anything but an accessory for their throaty, vrooming performance engines (because that’s who they are). The Panamera shows just where this internal conflict between heart and head can lead. It’s almost more a conundrum than a car. Can anyone imagine the Porsche BEV that will inevitably come? What leather-wrapped steering-wheel mystique can they evoke for that?

    But.

    It seems like there is a potential role for EV tech as a sports car power accessory. For one thing, doesn’t electric drive make turbo-lag irrelevant? Let the electric motor use it’s instant torque as a catapult, and give the turbo all the time it needs to wind up.

    This leads me one thought further (you fast-car guys tell me why this wouldn’t work): Why not drive a supercharger with it’s own electric motor, not from the engine at all. You’d be able to deliver the boost you wanted at any point regardless of engine rpm. The motor would need an electrical system more robust than the wimpy one running lights and the stereo, so use a real EV drive while you’re at it.

    But, the next place this thought brings us is the original question of why do we need performance engines if we have EV technology? Would it be better to feed pressurized air regardless of rpm into a hot engine, or just use a hot electric drive instead?

    Cloudy, the EV waters are.

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  16. 16
    Eric Smalling

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (1:34 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: Ugh, they just won’t learn.

    … or maybe they need more room

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  17. 17
    Jeff Cobb

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (1:45 pm)

    Jackson: This leads me one thought further (you fast-car guys tell me why this wouldn’t work): Why not drive a supercharger with it’s own electric motor, not from the engine at all. You’d be able to deliver the boost you wanted at any point regardless of engine rpm.

    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/08/electric-turbochargers-built-eliminate-lag-says-supplier.html

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  18. 18
    Jackson

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (2:41 pm)

    Jeff Cobb,

    Thanks for the link (and for freeing my comment :-) ).

    I guess that answers my question: The electric turbo as conceived requires a lot of electrical power. Why not use that power to propel the car instead? In the case of an EREV, it’s better to use the EV power to accelerate the car, and wait for the turbo to catch up (IMO).

    That is, if you need a turbo at all. The ultimate future of the sports car may see performance EV boost or turbo boost, but probably not both (or be total BEVs assuming sufficient battery tech is developed). I suspect that for most aficionados, the ICE will die a slow, slow death; the roar of displacement is too much a part of the whole sports car thing. What say you, Noel?

    … returning to skeptical mode. :-|

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  19. 19
    pjwood

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (3:01 pm)

    There isn’t much point in getting electric performance up to 162mph. I think Porsche will be best off if their cars deliver daily and track miles differently, to be really simple. A couple hundred more pounds of battery won’t be much against the 3,800 they’re comfortable with, already.

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  20. 20
    Dave G

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (3:12 pm)

    pjwood: There isn’t much point in getting electric performance up to 162mph.

    There is on the autobahn.

    162 MPH is 260 kilometers per hour (KPH). When we were in Europe, we drove up to 210 KPH (over 130 MPH) in a Ford Mondeo (a relatively normal car).

    You just hold the accelerator to the floor, and that’s how fast you go. You can go a little faster downhill.

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  21. 21
    Dave G

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (3:36 pm)

    Jackson: In contrast, Porsche, a pillar of the internal combustion religion, can hardly take EV tech as anything but an accessory for their throaty, vrooming performance engines (because that’s who they are). The Panamera shows just where this internal conflict between heart and head can lead. It’s almost more a conundrum than a car.

    Well said.

    Jackson: Can anyone imagine the Porsche BEV that will inevitably come?

    No, but I can imagine a Porsche extended range EV.

    Long range pure BEVs are heavy. The Model S weighs as much as a big SUV.

    An EREV with a small turbo-charged range extender would be much lighter than a long range pure BEV.

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  22. 22
    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (4:49 pm)

    As the great Lester Hayes, star defensive back of the old L.A. Raiders always used to say, “It’s academic!”

    They’re both WAY out of my price range.

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  23. 23
    kdawg

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (5:03 pm)

    Jackson: That is, if you need a turbo at all. The ultimate future of the sports car may see performance EV boost or turbo boost, but probably not both

    People say “boost”, “lag”, turbo”… and all I hear is blah blah blah. Sorry, but I’d rather they just K.I.S.S. Give me a big battery and electric motor. Done.

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  24. 24
    Noel Park

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (6:12 pm)

    Blind Guy:
    The Porsche just makes me appreciate the AER of our 2013 Volt even more.

    #11

    Yup. I’d rather have my Volt than either one of them. +1

    More AER than the Porsche and more versatile than the Tesla, and $50-$100K cheaper. What’s not to like?

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  25. 25
    Eco_Turbo

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (6:36 pm)

    Mercedes or Audi one has an exhaust driven turbo in their F1 car that also has a motor generator connected to the shaft. The electric motor can spin the turbo electrically, which eliminates turbo lag, but the most interesting property is the ability to capture wasted exhaust energy by letting the turbo spin the generator and put charge in the battery when the engine can’t use all the boost put out by the turbo. Chipping away at the incessant wasted exhaust energy of ICEs.
    http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/8699/

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  26. 26
    Eco_Turbo

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (8:06 pm)

    Eco_Turbo,

    Now that’s what I call a real Eco Turbo.

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  27. 27
    Jackson

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (8:33 pm)

    kdawg,

    Honestly, I don’t care a lot about all this going-too-fast stuff. I’m all in for fuel-efficiency (or range, in an EV) with reasonable performance. I find “Sport Mode” on my 2013 more than adequate. The only real interest I have in sports cars is the tech; which over time has allowed more power to come from less engine. Consider electronic ignition, overhead cams, multiple valves per cylinder and other economizing measures which started out as horsepower enhancements for the track. They are now standard fixtures of most economy cars. A turbo may be added to that list; though I think the cost will be too prohibitive.

    I maintain that a turbocharger is meaningless for an application where the engine only turns a generator. This “pure serial” mode may not describe Volt Gen II, but hopefully that will come some day (though perhaps it will have to wait for Gen III). Electric drive is expensive enough without adding a blower for the engine.

    And of course, I’m aware that high performance cars will appeal to many, even if they fail to attract my attention as a buyer.

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  28. 28
    Thomas J. Thias

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (8:40 pm)

    Jackson: Jeff Cobb,

    ~

    That is, if you need a turbo at all.The ultimate future of the sports car may see performance EV boost or turbo boost, but probably not both (or be total BEVs assuming sufficient battery tech is developed).I suspect that for most aficionados, the ICE will die a slow, slow death; the roar of displacement is too much a part of the whole sports car thing.What say you, Noel?

    … returning to skeptical mode.

    Well My Friend, Jackson…

    In just the 32 months since the Chevy Volt left limited states beta marketing and National (US) sales began get a load of all the Electric Fueled Vehicles known as SuperCars/HyperCars/SuperLuxury cars available globally, NOW!

    …and yes, all are PHEV’s and most plug in!

    Link Goes To Assembeled List With MSRP’s And Est. Production Run’s-

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuxFAaGIAAAhnM1.png

    He, he-

    Ps. One drive reduction due to heat on Nürburgring (The Ring) does NOT discredit all Tesla Model S’s.

    Best-

    Thomas J. Thias

    517-749-0532

    Twitter.com/AmazingChevVolt

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  29. 29
    Raymondjram

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (9:19 pm)

    Jackson,

    I have an electric supercharger in my 1995 Buick Regal. Essentially it is an electric centrifugal blower with three-inch inlet and outlet. The air filter goes on the input at the center, and the output at the rim of the blower is attached to the Mass Air Sensor. The motor runs directly on 12 VDC with no regulation (at a constant speed). It adds a few PSI to the air input and reduces engine hesitation that was due to a vacuum forming inside the inlet. Since it reduces engine manifold vacuum, it does affect the power brake booster, but I still have brakes.

    Here is an eBay auction for a similar unit;
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-AIR-INTAKE-ELECTRIC-SUPERCHARGER-FUEL-GAS-SAVER-3-INCH-FILTER-BLUE-/261225307631?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ABuick&hash=item3cd23dddef&vxp=mtr
    I only have the supercharger, not the mushroom filter because I reused the filter the Buickk Regal had. If I had to, I can remove it and return the engine to its original setup.

    I gained some torque and a few MPGs. The electric supercharger isn’t quality made but it does help. And since I have LED lamps and HID headlights (no incandescents) my battery isn’t affected at all.

    Raymond

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    Raymondjram

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (9:21 pm)

    Jeff Cobb,

    The first comment on that page is mine.

    Raymond

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    rdunniii

     

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (9:59 pm)


    It seems like there is a potential role for EV tech as a sports car power accessory.For one thing, doesn’t electric drive make turbo-lag irrelevant?Let the electric motor use it’s instant torque as a catapult, and give the turbo all the time it needs to wind up.

    Um, that’s exactly what they do do.

    Onward;

    This is the closest thing to an apples to apples comparison I have read.

    I was visiting a friend at his workplace and we’re out in the parking lot and there was a guy with one of these. In Silicon Valley they sell lots of expensive cars. I gotta say it is an awesome car. But I’m amazed at how much people will pay for all this panache and accoutrements and millimeter better fit and finish. I wouldn’t pay an extra nickel for any of it.

    The best part was when my friend asked the guy if he considered a Tesla. He said no. Asked why, he said, because it’s not a Porsche and he would never lower himself to considering any American car again, because he didn’t have to.

    Alrighty then.

    While the Tesla may keep up with the Porsche to 60-75 MPH, the Porsche will walk away from it after that as it is just getting into its power band.

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  32. 32
    Jackson

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (10:08 pm)

    Well, I also have this idea for putting wheels underneath a box with seats in it, and using it for transportation … :-P

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  33. 33
    Boss Hogg

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (11:48 pm)

    “Is this a no-brainer? In any event, hope ya’ll like it …

    Now yore speakin’ mah language!

    –Hogg

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  34. 34
    Jackson

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    Aug 11th, 2014 (11:56 pm)

    Thomas J. Thias: SuperCars/HyperCars/SuperLuxury cars

    Super Cars are a lot like Super Heroes: Exceedingly rare and mostly hearsay. Most people will go to their graves without ever having seen either one.

    Forgive me, but I just can’t get excited about any product so remote as to not exist in any practical sense. Call me back when there’s an “Electro-Vette.”

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