Aug 15

2014 Volts shipping; eyes look to 2016 as well

 

Those of you who read yesterday’s story probably noticed the 2014 Volts will be arriving in dealers this month.

Actually they have been on their way, but GM’s rep told me she questioned whether it was even newsworthy, and did not share what date they began shipping.

Aside from that, a story is circulating that the range extender for gen 2 may be a three cylinder small displacement turbo, but we’ll have more on that shortly …

 

With a revised sticker price starting at $34,995 – $5,000 less than last year – Chevrolet is now trucking 2014 Volts to respective participating dealers around the U.S.

Yesterday Chevrolet Communications spokesperson Michelle Malcho confirmed the launch began earlier this month, and said it depends upon the dealership as to timing of their arrival.

Talk had been of the car being released a couple months sooner, but that decision was pushed off following plenty of inventory still left over and a discount program for $4,000 for 2013s and $5,000 for 2012s.

On Tuesday Chevrolet of Canada also gave official confirmation that a Canadian $5,000 cut from the Canadian Volt price would also be offered.

Spec-wise, there is nary a difference between 2013 and 2014. The car has been highly awarded as an extended range electric vehicle; the recipient of top owner satisfaction ratings.

Two new colors for 2014 will be made available.
Two new colors for 2014 will be made available.
 

It is loosely cross shopped with the all-electric Nissan Leaf and plug-in hybrid Ford Fusion Energi among others, but given its 38 miles EPA-rated all-electric range with gas back-up, there is no head-to-head competitor to the Volt.

More gen 2 rumblings

A general story on GMC and Chevy model changes by Automotive News last month was the source of suggestions that the next-gen Volt will come in “late 2015 probably as a 2016″ and it will be sporting a downsized ICE.

“GM probably will downsize the 1.4-liter, four-cylinder engine to improve its efficiency in range-extension mode. Possibilities include a 1.0-liter or 1.2-liter three-cylinder engine,” said AN

Motor Trend went a little further and specified an all-aluminum 1.0-liter turbo Opel engine.

Automotive News also noted that other “media reports” have said that the Volt could get a “dedicated lightweight platform.”

One blog source that only read half of this reported that Automotive News had suggested a new proprietary Volt platform could be pending.

“New engines aren’t the only change Automotive News thinks is coming to the Volt – a bespoke, lightweight platform will underpin the second-generation model,” inaccurately said a source that will remain unnamed. “The hybrid currently shares its bones with the Chevy Cruze and Buick Verano, but a dedicated platform could help the Volt hit its future fuel economy targets.”

Actually, the source not named should have read AN’s second sentence following not what AN “thinks” but what it had said “media reports” other than itself have said.

“Cost constraints make that [proprietary Volt platform] unlikely; expect it to remain on the same platform as the Cruze and Buick Verano, the enhanced Delta architecture” said AN. “But the platform likely will be modified to maximize weight savings and wring out more electric range.”

So you see? You have to watch what you read, or as the famous saying goes, “I saw it on the Internet.”

(Not that we’re all usually that sloppy …)

Beyond this latest bit about the engine and platform, we’ve previously heard GM is looking to cut at least $10,000 from production costs and Dan Akerson nebulously said he would want “50-60″ miles AER.

Many of you have already said you’re satisfied with gen 1 but will others want to hold out?

Given consumers’ natural tendency to avoid first-generation technology, and so much theoretically pending, will many wait? Late 2015 is still more than two years away.

This entry was posted on Thursday, August 15th, 2013 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 58


  1. 1
    Loboc

    +30

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (6:13 am)

    I do not regret getting my 4-month-old 2013 AT ALL! If you’re not driving a Volt, you’re wasting fuel.


  2. 2
    bobchr

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    bobchr
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (6:31 am)

    Let’s see I will be coming off lease on my 2012 Volt in May 31st 2015, I will either have to sign a 2 month extension to wait for Gen 2 or I will be doing a monthly rent-a-car. We will see how it goes.


  3. 3
    gsned57

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    gsned57
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (6:41 am)

    With 3 kids I need to wait for the voltec minivan or CUV with 3rd row seating. Otherwise I would already be there.


  4. 4
    Taser54

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Taser54
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (6:51 am)

    Gen 2 will have a dial on the dash that allows the driver to turn up charging and regen up to “11″. A number of artists (including Neil Young) have expressed interest in Volt 2.0. Most of us who were lucky enough to try the prototypes turn them up to 11 cause they run so damn good.


  5. 5
    Tony Broadway

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tony Broadway
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (7:36 am)

    gsned57,

    You could always sell one of your kids. I’m sure there is one that you don’t like as well as the others. ;) Of course I’m kidding, but it might be a good threat to keep ‘em in line.


  6. 6
    Nelson

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Nelson
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (7:47 am)

    Automotive News also noted that other “media reports” have said that the Volt could get a “dedicated lightweight platform.” ………………..“New engines aren’t the only change Automotive News thinks is coming to the Volt – a bespoke, lightweight platform will underpin the second-generation model,”

    Dedicated for the Volt? Wouldn’t GM want a “lightweight platform” for all their sedans? Wouldn’t a lighter platform for a Cruze or Malibu give it better mileage?

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


  7. 7
    MotoEV

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MotoEV
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (7:51 am)

    ‘Talk had been of the car being released a couple months sooner, but that decision was pushed off following plenty of inventory still left over and a discount program for $4,000 for 2013s and $5,000 for 2012s.’

    There are still unsold 2012 Volts? How long does a dealership keep a past year product in stock before making aggressive attempts to get it out of stock? If this is true, I can see why the price reduce was necessary.

    Has anyone tried to buy a new prior year Volt at a deep discount?


  8. 8
    Raymondjram

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Raymondjram
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (8:09 am)

    GM has improved the structure strength of some of the top models, including the 2014 Chevy Corvette Stingray, and this helps to reduce the amount of metal, reduce weight, and improve MPG (the Corvette is at 29 MPG which is impressive for a 185 MPH vehicle!). This improvement will be passed down to the other models, and the Volt will benefit from this. A smaller range-extender engine is another weight saver. Battery improvements with less weight and more energy storage is one item many here are expecting. With all these improvements, the next generation can probably have a 50 mile EPA range and a 50 MPG EPA range extender, but Volt owners will extend that to 70 miles, and much less range extending.

    The BEVs (Spark EV and others) will get a 100+ mile range, too. Then we can have more EV drivers, less noise and gas burning, which is what America needs.

    Keep the good news coming GM!

    Raymond


  9. 9
    Jeff Cobb

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jeff Cobb
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (8:14 am)

    Nelson:
    Automotive News also noted that other “media reports” have said that the Volt could get a “dedicated lightweight platform.” ………………..“New engines aren’t the only change Automotive News thinks is coming to the Volt – a bespoke, lightweight platform will underpin the second-generation model,”

    Dedicated for the Volt?Wouldn’t GM want a “lightweight platform” for all their ?Wouldn’t a lighter platform for a Cruze or Malibu give it better mileage?

    NPNS!
    Volt#671

    Actually I was trying to clearly show that Automotive News really said the Volt is probably NOT getting a different platform (perhaps only slightly modified for the extra E-REV weight). However, I showed, a sloppy blog post (from another publication) falsely attributed to AN the notion gen 2 will get a dedicated platform.

    I was trying to correct the record in case anyone has read the other post and believes that Automotive News “thinks” gen-2 Volt will get a “bespoke” platform as another blogger on a well-read auto site stated.

    My Text:

    Actually, the source not named should have read AN’s second sentence following not what AN “thinks” but what it had said “media reports” other than itself have said.

    “Cost constraints make that [proprietary Volt platform] unlikely; expect it to remain on the same platform as the Cruze and Buick Verano, the enhanced Delta architecture” said AN. “But the platform likely will be modified to maximize weight savings and wring out more electric range.”


  10. 10
    Jeff Cobb

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jeff Cobb
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (8:20 am)

    MotoEV: There are still unsold 2012 Volts? How long does a dealership keep a past year product in stock before making aggressive attempts to get it out of stock? If this is true, I can see why the price reduce was necessary.

    Despite all the Tesla and other stories you get here, I really do try to cover the Volt where possible.

    2012s were reported as getting a $5k discount on June 12. I do not think many were left, but some were.

    Quote: “Leftover 2012s in limited stock are reportedly eligible for $5,000.”

    http://gm-volt.com/2013/06/12/gm-discounts-2013-volts-netting-for-under-30000-with-incentives/


  11. 11
    Ziv

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ziv
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (8:22 am)

    I love my Volt, but I am a bit disappointed if it turns out to be true that the Gen II Volt won’t come out until late 2015, nearly 5 years after the first Volts were sold. 12/2010 to 9/2015 (or so), is way too long to just do incremental changes in the Volt. Akerson’s 20% of additional range would help if it is delivered in the 2015MY Volts next year, but that won’t address the meager back seat legroom or improve the moderately decent CS mpg. GM could really use a mid-sized Volt, either a Volt on the D2xx platform or an MPV5. I can’t remember which car it was going to be the platform for, but I read a report that GM is delivering cars (Buick Anthem?) in the US next year that will be using the D2xx, even though it looks like the Cruze won’t be using it until 2015.
    I noticed something a while back that gives a pretty good idea of why the back seat legroom is so meager in a Volt. I picked up my laundry and hung it in the back seat of my car as I have in every car I have ever had. Only in the Volt did the front seat encroach so much into the back seat seating area that the shirts actually had to be tucked outboard of the front seat. When they designed the Volt with the motors and the engine up front, it took up so much space that the firewall was moved back 2″ or 3″ and the front seat was moved back by a similar amount, leaving very little unclaimed space for the people in the back.
    Here is hoping the Gen II Volt comes out next year! Regardless, though, I will be enjoying my Cyber Volt!


  12. 12
    kdawg

    +9

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (8:22 am)

    I wouldn’t mind a 3 cylinder engine as long as performance doesn’t suffer in RE mode (not that I use the RE that much as you can see what I had to deal w/this morning).

    If a $40k or less 200 mile BEV comes out, I think I may go that route, and get rid of the ICE.

    EMM_zpsa530e08d.jpg


  13. 13
    pjwood

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    pjwood
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (8:26 am)

    So, nothing to see here? We’re supposed to focus on “50-60, in 2017″?

    Four spots, and this morning was the second time I ever got the last one. Three Teslas.

    Punt.


  14. 14
    haroldC

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    haroldC
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:12 am)

    pjwood,

    huh?
    haroldC


  15. 15
    George S. Bower

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:16 am)

    Wow,
    So Volt will have its own dedicated platform……
    I think we suggested that.
    Good find Jeff (j/k I saw your post)

    3 cyl aluminum engine?? Good.
    2016????—bad


  16. 16
    George S. Bower

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:20 am)

    Taser54:
    .A number of artists (including Neil Young) have expressed interest in Volt 2.0.

    Is the LincVolt broken again? It burned down once….not to discredit it though. It is a pure series machine that actually gets used. Although I’m not sure of its current status.


  17. 17
    George S. Bower

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:21 am)

    pjwood:
    So, nothing to see here?We’re supposed to focus on “50-60, in 2017″?

    Four spots, and this morning was the second time I ever got the last one.Three Teslas.

    Punt.

    yeh pj,
    I’m w/ Harold.
    that one went over my head.


  18. 18
    Mark Z

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mark Z
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:29 am)

    pjwood: So, nothing to see here? We’re supposed to focus on “50-60, in 2017″? Four spots, and this morning was the second time I ever got the last one. Three Teslas. Punt.

    I understand. Volt enthusiasts are to be happy with 50 to 60 mile AER in a 2nd Gen Volt model. But meanwhile, four EV charge spaces at work were somewhat empty, and now three Tesla Motors cars are parked there before arriving. Any comment?

    I would suggest that it’s time for additional EV parking. GM needs an SS Impala BEV with VIA’s 402 hp motor and 400 under the floor (huge flat battery pack with honest 400 mile range.)


  19. 19
    jdan

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jdan
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:30 am)

    I know we all would like more sooner, but it will happen when it will happen. My lease is up July 2014. The 2015′s likley will not be out yet, so I either try to re-lease or buy my current 2012 Volt or lease a 2014. It all depends on the montly payments (hmmm prehaps an ELR if the price is right?), time will tell. If they snuck in a CUV/MPV in there with say 6-7 passengers my wife would definitly be on board with that. If things don’t look good I may have to bail for awhile and go to say the Ford Fusion EREV (nice looking car). The price is reasonable, the range works in my situation (short drive to work), and I get the third back seat which would come in handy occasionally. If I do this, I would come back to GM depending on thier future offerings. Time will tell.


  20. 20
    steve

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    steve
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:41 am)

    I’m not so sure a turbocharged engine is the best choice. While it gets better power for a given displacement, it adds further cost and complexity. An optimized NA engine seems a better choice,


  21. 21
    Nelson

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Nelson
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:41 am)

    Jeff Cobb,

    According to Cars.com this morning:
    New Volt US Inventory
    Year — Qty.
    2014 — 318
    2013 — 5,602
    2012 — 224

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


  22. 22
    DonC

    +10

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (10:55 am)

    The whole platform discussion is skewed because people think a modern “platform” is a lot more fixed than it is. It’s more about hard points and parts than anything.

    The “lightweight” discussion is more than skewed, it’s really off-base. The new platform will shed pounds because a new platform is the greatest opportunity for mass reduction. That’s a given. However, the idea that the Volt needs special mass reduction is silly. It’s the Cruze that needs the mass reduction! Mass is always an issue but it’s a much bigger issue for ICE vehicles than for electric vehicles. While rolling resistance is a dead weight loss, it’s not that large over a drive cycle. The big penalties mass imposes on ICE vehicles have to do with hill climbing and acceleration, losses that the regen in electric vehicles can mostly recover. Not such a big deal.

    The Tesla Model S is not that efficient an EV but it weighs more than a Chevy Tahoe and beats it like a drum on any efficiency measure. As Frank Weber has pointed out, while mass is the MOST important factor in MPG for an ICE vehicle, for an electric vehicle mass is less important than aerodynamics and ancillary draws (heat, AC, stereo).

    The point here is that the Volt will benefit from the mass reductions that GM will no doubt make for the new Cruze but it does not need any special mass reduction beyond that.


  23. 23
    kdawg

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (11:19 am)

    I think a new platform would be more beneficial for battery packaging rather than weight reduction. If GM has been testing different chemistries/configurations, I’m sure they have in mind how they would like to package them. They just need to set aside the room in the platform. Reducing the engine size will give engineers more flexibility. Removing or reducing the TMS (if not required), will also gain a lot of ground.


  24. 24
    Kent

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (11:30 am)

    Has anyone seen this Volt pricing on the chevy website? Doesn’t look right to me when you read the fine print next to it.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html


  25. 25
    George S. Bower

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (11:43 am)

    steve:
    I’m not so sure a turbocharged engine is the best choice.While it gets better power for a given displacement, it adds furthercost and complexity. An optimized NA engine seems a better choice,

    Totally agree


  26. 26
    kdawg

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (12:06 pm)

    Kent: Has anyone seen this Volt pricing on the chevy website? Doesn’t look right to me when you read the fine print next to it.

    Yes the fine print is wrong.
    ———
    Price after tax savings. Net price shown includes the full $7,500 tax credit*1. $39,145 MSRP*1,2 with federal tax savings from $0 up to $7,500.
    ———-
    It is $34,185 + $810 dest. charge = $34,995


  27. 27
    imanjunk1963

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    imanjunk1963
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (12:10 pm)

    Nelson:
    Jeff Cobb,

    According to Cars.com this morning:
    New Volt US Inventory
    Year — Qty.
    2014 —318
    2013 —5,602
    2012 —224

    NPNS!
    Volt#671

    AutoTrader.com shows a few hundred 2014 too and tells you who has them how far away…58 miles for me but I will wait til my local dealer gets one if I don’t get a 2013 since its proably gonna be reduced more. Meanwhile I count and save my pennies so I have enough very soon.


  28. 28
    Khadgars

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Khadgars
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (12:41 pm)

    George S. Bower:
    Wow,
    So Volt will have its own dedicated platform……
    I think we suggested that.
    Good find Jeff (j/k I saw your post)

    3 cyl aluminum engine?? Good.
    2016????—bad

    Why is 2016 bad? That model will arrive in late 2015, a mere 2 years from now.


  29. 29
    Nelson

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Nelson
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (12:51 pm)

    imanjunk1963: Meanwhile I count and save my pennies so I have enough very soon.

    In 2007 when I first heard of the Volt I did the same thing. Today I’m saving my pennies for the first 200+ mile EV with liquid-cooled battery pack under $37K, be it Tesla, GM, Nissan, Ford, BMW, Honda or Toyota. I have no allegiance. :)

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


  30. 30
    Larry4pyro

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Larry4pyro
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (12:56 pm)

    Here’s more on the turbo 3 cyclinder 1 liter engine being proposed for Volt 2:

    http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/12380

    I’ve stated before I don’t think a small 3-banger is a good fit for the Volt due to cost, complexity, weight, fuel consumption and NVH issues. After reading the article I can see GM has done a lot to resolve these issues, but I’m still not convinced a larger normally aspirated Atkinson cycle engine like that used in the Prius would be a better solution.


  31. 31
    haroldC

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    haroldC
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (1:26 pm)

    Mark Z,

    Wow….three Teslas at same workplace? Good place to work……….
    haroldC


  32. 32
    Raymondjram

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Raymondjram
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (1:39 pm)

    Nelson: In 2007 when I first heard of the Volt I did the same thing.Today I’m saving my pennies for the first 200+ mile EV with liquid-cooled battery pack under $37K, be it Tesla, GM, Nissan, Ford, BMW, Honda or Toyota.I have no allegiance.

    NPNS!
    Volt#671

    You should sponsor American brands. The imports take the money back to their national banks, and that is a trade balance against America.

    Raymond


  33. 33
    ziv

    +9

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ziv
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (1:51 pm)

    Ray, that is one of the reasons I like my Volt so much. It was designed by Americans, it was built (mostly) by Americans (more so now that the battery is assembled in Michigan) and I can get my power from my local utility instead of Venezuela and Mexico. I would rant about OPEC but other than Venezuela we don’t get much oil from them, but oil is a fungible good, of sorts, so gasoline purchases do support the interests of the House of Saud as well.
    end of rant

    Raymondjram: You should sponsor American brands. The imports take the money back to their national banks, and that is a trade balance against America.

    Raymond


  34. 34
    Kent

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (2:12 pm)

    ziv:
    Ray, that is one of the reasons I like my Volt so much. It was designed by Americans, it was built (mostly) by Americans (more so now that the battery is assembled in Michigan) and I can get my power from my local utility instead of Venezuela and Mexico. I would rant about OPEC but other than Venezuela we don’t get much oil from them, but oil is a fungible good, of sorts, so gasoline purchases do support the interests of the House of Saud as well.
    end of rant

    Ditto. +1!

    I swore off buying any more gas-only cars after I got my first Volt but I think I have to reconsider my position after seeing the 2014 Corvette. There is so much conflict within me!


  35. 35
    merlin

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    merlin
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (2:12 pm)

    I have 2 kids and one more on the way. A voltec 2.0 in a minivan offering would make me very happy. Imagine all the space under the seats that could be filled with batteries. Giant skateboard idea – bigger version of the Spark pack. Lots of range. I don’t understand why this hasn’t been in the works already. GM’s minivan offerings have been uninspired since the Astro van left circulation. Time to get back in the game and take the lead. I’ll probably have to switch vehicles before 2015 though.


  36. 36
    Nelson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Nelson
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (2:29 pm)

    Raymondjram: You should sponsor American brands. The imports take the money back to their national banks, and that is a trade balance against America.
    Raymond

    If an American company makes the 200+ mile EV with liquid cooled battery first, they get my business.
    So I buy my Volt from GM, and Dan Akerson takes a vacation tour of Italy (or any other foreign country) and spends over $8,000 there. Who caused the trade imbalance in that scenario?
    To think all the money made by US workers stays in the US is pretty naïve.

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


  37. 37
    Ziv

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ziv
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (2:31 pm)

    It is no C7, but I did drive my 350Z to work today to warm it up and there is a certain allure to a fast car that even my Volt doesn’t quite match. I love my Volt but my Z is a sweet ride as well. I did catch myself frowning as I noticed the exhaust note this morning, it just sounded so loud…

    Kent: Ditto. +1!I swore off buying any more gas-only cars after I got my first Volt but I think I have to reconsider my position after seeing the 2014 Corvette. There is so much conflict within me!


  38. 38
    QB 45

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    QB 45
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (2:42 pm)

    MotoEV,

    I’ve tried to buy a ’12 or ’13 several times. I keep getting “sorry, I already sold it but haven’t updated my internet inventory yet”. It’s pretty frustrating.


  39. 39
    Raymondjram

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Raymondjram
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (2:48 pm)

    Nelson: If an American company makes the 200+ mile EV with liquid cooled battery first, they get my business.
    So I buy my Volt from GM, and Dan Akerson takes a vacation tour of Italy (or any other foreign country) and spends over $8,000 there.Who caused the trade imbalance in that scenario?
    To think all the money made by US workers stays in the US is pretty naïve.

    NPNS!
    Volt#671

    $8,000 is the profit of just two cars. GM makes more than that, and the money stays in America. The imports get much higher profits and that money doesn’t return to America. If you have a business selling an item you produced, and your friends didn’t buy from you because they know that with your profits, your family travels to Florida or California for a vacation, is that fair?

    Every import sold in America is one job less for Americans!

    Raymond


  40. 40
    Raymondjram

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Raymondjram
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (2:52 pm)

    A little off-topic:

    Green Car Reports posted a list of prices for BEVs, EREV, and PHEVs, but the price shown for the 2013 Chevy Volt is the old one, and they omitted the price for the 2014 MY:
    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080871_electric-car-price-guide-every-2012-2013-plug-in-car-with-specs

    I tried to post a comment but the sign in pop-up doesn’t work. I recommend visiting the page and anyone who can should post a correction.

    Raymond


  41. 41
    Tall Pete

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tall Pete
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (3:33 pm)

    The 5000$ price cut is great news in Canada where the base price is 42k$. My 2008 will be paid for next month so the timing couldn’t be better. I should be able to get a sweet deal.


  42. 42
    Charlie H

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (5:05 pm)

    DonC,

    First, kdawg’s post immediately below yours is right. A PHEV needs different packaging than a plain vanilla ICE-motivated car. There’s a reason most midsize and compact cars are FWD; it allows for different use of space inside the vehicle footprint, leading to a synergistic reduction in mass and improvement in performance.

    The Volt needs a secure place for the batteries and it also doesn’t need a very big ICE. Things can be moved around a lot, optimized to the situation, and it should be possible to build a lighter, more aerodynamic car with more interior room.

    Second, I don’t recall where or when Weber made those remarks but I’d bet a quarter that he was responding to criticism that the Volt was too heavy. And, to a certain extent, he’s right. But mass is only less important, not unimportant. To a certain extent, the criticism of the Volt’s weight was also correct. Mass does matter, even in an EV. If nothing else, it affects your performance. If Weber could have found a way to cut 300lbs off the Volt, he’d have done it. But he was stuck with the Delta platform and couldn’t build a car from the ground up to suit his needs.

    I know people hate-hate-hate-hate references to the Prius but the people at Toyota are not stupid. They have a purpose-built platform for a reason and it’s a big part of the reason the G2 Prius sold so much better than the G1.

    Compare the Ford C-Max to the Prius V, if you will. The Ford C-Max has a better drivetrain (capable of significantly more regen) and gets 47mpg on the EPA test. But it’s 300lbs heavier. In the real world (as reported by Fuelly, anyway), the Prius V beats the C-Mas by 3mpg.

    Mass matters. Even if it didn’t, a dedicated platform would let GM give the Volt more interior room and move the battery out of the way.


  43. 43
    Streetlight

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Streetlight
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (5:38 pm)

    George S. Bower: steve:
    I’m not so sure a turbocharged engine is the best choice.While it gets better power for a given displacement, it adds furthercost and complexity. An optimized NA engine seems a better choice,
    Totally agree

    Hi George: You must know turbos as good as anyone around. AirResearch lead the world. So I don’t need to spend time preaching atmospherics vs induction basics. You must go turbo when downsizing displacement. As to reliability, an ER ICE turbo will outlast the batteries.

    One thing more. You’re thinking in terms of Gen 1 VOLT. We don’t know what Gen 2 VOLT ER ICE will need to do.


  44. 44
    James

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    James
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (5:43 pm)

    There’s little tweaks and changes for 2014.

    Here’s the adds and deletions.

    Chevy is deleting certain equipment — including Jet Black and Spice Red seats with Dark accents interior, premium door trim, the comfort package, the comfort grip steering wheel, as well as three existing colors (Cyber Gray Metallic, Viridian Joule, Blue Topaz Metallic).

    The leather-wrapped steering wheel becomes standard equipment, the PCV low emissions package becomes available for ship-to states of Maryland, Massachusetts and New Jersey (in addition to California and New York), and the interior sees a few tweaks to the trim. One of the biggest
    changes is the removal of the electronic inside remote door release for the plug receptacle. Starting with the 2014 Volt, the outside door is push-to-open so no more need for the key fob or
    opening the door to get at the inside release.

    Will this cut down on amount of times we leave the charge door open? Last week I pulled up to another Volt owner on the roadway and pointed to his charge door – he waved and smiled, thinking I was just really super enthusiastic… : )

    ———————————————————————————————————————————-

    Here are the official RPO-level changes:

    Deletions
    (GBV) Cyber Gray Metallic exterior color
    (GLC) Viridian Joule exterior color
    (GTS) Blue Topaz Metallic exterior color
    (AFG) Jet Black and Spice Red seats with Dark accents interior
    (FIF) Premium door trim
    (PCM) Comfort Package
    (NK5) Comfort grip steering wheel

    New Features
    (GLJ) Ashen Gray Metallic exterior color
    (GWX) Brownstone Metallic exterior color

    Changes
    (N30) Leather-wrapped steering wheel is now standard
    Charge port door is push to open
    (KA1) Driver and front passenger heated seats is now an available option for Cloth interior, as well as included with (PCQ) Premium Trim Package
    (AFA) Jet Black seats interior accents changed from Ceramic White to Dark accents
    (AFD) Jet Black and White seats are now all Jet Black seats
    (PCV) Now included on vehicles with ship-to states of Maryland, Massachusetts and New Jersey, in addition to California and New York

    Big thanks to GMAuthority.com as my source for the 2014 changes.

    CHARGE! ,

    James


  45. 45
    DonC

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (5:56 pm)

    Charlie H: The Volt needs a secure place for the batteries and it also doesn’t need a very big ICE. Things can be moved around a lot, optimized to the situation, and it should be possible to build a lighter, more aerodynamic car with more interior room.
    Second, I don’t recall where or when Weber made those remarks but I’d bet a quarter that he was responding to criticism that the Volt was too heavy. And, to a certain extent, he’s right. But mass is only less important, not unimportant. To a certain extent, the criticism of the Volt’s weight was also correct. Mass does matter, even in an EV. If nothing else, it affects your performance. If Weber could have found a way to cut 300lbs off the Volt, he’d have done it. But he was stuck with the Delta platform and couldn’t build a car from the ground up to suit his needs.

    With respect to the platform, you’re making exactly the mistake I mentioned of thinking that the platform is fixed. It’s not. It’s very flexible. Think more like a family of platforms. For example, we know that D2XX will be the platform for the Chevrolet Cruze, the Opel Astra K, the Chevrolet Volt, the Chevrolet Equinox, and the Chevrolet Captiva. Those cars won’t look the same nor will they have the same exterior or interior dimensions.

    On mass, of course mass is important, it’s just not that critical for EVs. Weber made his presentation to talk about how aerodynamics were vastly more important than mass. Would he have taken 300 pounds out if he could? Sure, but those 300 pounds would only have reduced the Volt’s range by 1.5 miles on the City Cycle and .75 miles on the Highway Cycle. The dead weight losses with low RR tires just aren’t that important.


  46. 46
    James

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    James
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (6:12 pm)

    Charlie H:
    DonC,

    Second, I don’t recall where or when Weber made those remarks but I’d bet a quarter that he was responding to criticism that the Volt was too heavy. And, to a certain extent, he’s right.

    I know people hate-hate-hate-hate references to the Prius but the people at Toyota are not stupid. They have a purpose-built platform for a reason and it’s a big part of the reason the G2 Prius sold so much better than the G1.

    Compare the Ford C-Max to the Prius V, if you will. The Ford C-Max has a better drivetrain (capable of significantly more regen) and gets 47mpg on the EPA test. But it’s 300lbs heavier. In the real world (as reported by Fuelly, anyway), the Prius V beats the C-Mas by 3mpg.

    Mass matters. Even if it didn’t, a dedicated platform would let GM give the Volt more interior room and move the battery out of the way.

    Wow – I totally agree, Volt/Voltec vehicles need their own platform!!!

    It’s odd Frank Weber would say such about mass and then, with BMW work 24/7
    to make weight reduction i3 and i8′s hallmarks with carbon-composite, aluminum
    and magnesium. Even stranger is that i8 gets 80 miles AER even with all it’s
    weight loss – probably due to it’s high profile body. i8 having 15-22 miles AER
    is a puzzler as well…

    One thing only Tesla seems to deem important is ride height. I’ve been suggesting
    a gen2 Volt have auto-lowering suspension over 40mph – and wala! Tesla comes out
    with it years after I suggested it! Try weighing down your Volt or Prius until it squats
    down on the freeway – you’ll marvel at the efficiency uptick! Even 1/2 in. of height
    reduction makes a difference!

    I notice the heavyweight Volt builds momentum faster than my Prius on downhills,
    thus – if pulsing – makes it shoot up the uphill portion with authority. George or
    myself should do some downhill/uphill glide comparisons since we both own
    a Prius and Volt. He’d do much better than I on the calculations though! You’d
    think that the lighter Prius would glide better on the uphill portion after the downhill
    glide, but I have found it just the opposite. So advantage Volt. What say you, George?
    Naturally the grade makes a large difference. Maybe Prius would be better for deeper,
    more frequent hills, Volt on gradual sweeping ones?

    CHARGE! ,

    James


  47. 47
    James

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    James
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (6:23 pm)

    I wonder if GM could ditch the annoying scraping rubber spoiler in front
    ( yeah, I know they offer an optional smaller one, but who wants reduced
    AER? ). They use clever grille shutters on several models now – and more
    in the future ( Impala ECO ). Could there be a device to fold up the spoiler
    or retract it two or three inches at lower speeds?

    Just sayin’….

    CHARGE! ,

    James


  48. 48
    Dave G

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave G
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (6:25 pm)

    DonC: The point here is that the Volt will benefit from the mass reductions that GM will no doubt make for the new Cruze but it does not need any special mass reduction beyond that.

    Nice post. Makes sense.


  49. 49
    George S. Bower

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (7:37 pm)

    Streetlight: HiGeorge:You must know turbos as good as anyone around. AirResearch lead the world.

    Thx Streetlight,
    I didn’t work in the turbo division but APU’s (where I did work)and turbos have a lot in common. There was always someone wanting to take a cheap turbo, stick a combustor in it and make a super low cost APU.


  50. 50
    Charlie H

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:06 pm)

    James,

    Adjustable ride height was a feature of the Lincoln Continental Mark-Something about 15-18 years ago. I think it would automatically lower itself at highway speed. Probably other cars had it, too. I think the Citroen SM of perhaps 30-35 years ago had it (I’m pretty sure it had hydraulic suspension).


  51. 51
    George S. Bower

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (9:41 pm)

    DonC: With respect to the platform, you’re making exactly the mistake I mentioned of thinking that the platform is fixed. It’s not. It’s very flexible.

    That’s a good point DonC. Then it shouldn’t be a problem to put the frickin’ batteries in the floor where they belong!!


  52. 52
    Donald Shaw

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Donald Shaw
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (11:02 pm)

    George S. Bower,

    I believe that Mark Ruess (my spelling might be wrong), GM vice president, announced there would be a ‘purpose built’ volt new from the ground up – as a means of reducing the price by $10,000. To me this meant a new ‘platform’

    I am pretty sure that announcement was on this forum

    Don Shaw


  53. 53
    JohnK

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JohnK
     Says

     

    Aug 15th, 2013 (11:56 pm)

    Loboc:
    I do not regret getting my 4-month-old 2013 AT ALL! If you’re not driving a Volt, you’re wasting fuel.

    Welcome to the club!
    And I will add that you are missing out on a really sweet driving experience (if not driving a Volt).


  54. 54
    kdawg

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Aug 16th, 2013 (12:15 am)

    Donald Shaw: I believe that Mark Ruess (my spelling might be wrong), GM vice president, announced there would be a ‘purpose built’ volt new from the ground up – as a means of reducing the price by $10,000. To me this meant a new ‘platform’
    I am pretty sure that announcement was on this forum

    I thought they said they were working on a purpose built EV, but I don’t konw if it was associated with the Volt. Meaning this EV would co-exist with Volt Gen 2/3/etc. I also thought it was going to be a BEV that got either 100 miles or 200 miles range.


  55. 55
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Aug 16th, 2013 (1:15 am)

    George S. Bower: hen it shouldn’t be a problem to put the frickin’ batteries in the floor where they belong!!

    IMO the backseat of the Model S is as useless as the Volt’s. With the Volt there is no legroom. With the Model S there is no headroom. I think that’s because of the skateboard design and the sloping back. Do we know how easy it is to work on the Model S battery pack?


  56. 56
    DonC

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Aug 16th, 2013 (1:27 am)

    Donald Shaw: To me this meant a new ‘platform’

    The Volt will definitely be on the D2XX platform, which will be used by other models, including the Cruze. That doesn’t mean the Volt won’t have it’s own derivative platform. D2XX was developed with EVs and EREVs in mind. The old Delta platform was not.


  57. 57
    MotoEV

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MotoEV
     Says

     

    Aug 16th, 2013 (4:23 am)

    Raymondjram,

    ‘Every import sold in America is one job less for Americans!’

    False… False… False GM needs to do better in global markets and make better decisions

    1) Car parts sourced from American OEMs
    2) US Engineers & OEM companies producing jobs in the US
    3) The Toyota car plants ARE NOT built with Japanese materials and labor
    4) The employee benefits (health care, etc.) come from regional providers
    5) Dealer Network, Toyota USA Marketing, Toyota USA design studios are here
    6) Local tax revenue – Not heard of any US state not wanting an auto plant in there area

    It cost billions of investment dollars to stand up auto manufacturing enterprise. Competition is good for everyone.

    Examples:

    Jeep’s Grand Cherokee and Chrysler 300 received a large amount of German engineering support during the Mercedes acquisition and have won customers left and right globally. Chrysler would have gone under if Mercedes had not acquired them.

    Ford is a better manufacturer thanks to Volvo acquired platforms and safety technology

    Tata is doing with Jaguar and Land Rover what Ford was unable to do because they are making billion dollar investments and marketing decisions that are generating greater global sales.


  58. 58
    solo

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    solo
     Says

     

    Aug 16th, 2013 (1:17 pm)

    The Volt has been out for a couple years now. Does anybody know if any are coming off lease or being traded in? It will be interesting to see what used ones sell for.