Jul 17

Cruze Diesel beats 46 MPG EPA rating with 54 MPG (or better)

 

As you probably know, GM has been amping up excitement for its purported diesel VW Jetta-beater, the Cruze Diesel. While not an electrified vehicle, and some would say it’s not even “green,” it does qualify to be called a “clean diesel.”

And it otherwise does qualify as “alternative energy” transportation and offers strong competition to a Prius even without the electrification.

Some might also think a diesel genset would be worthwhile for the Volt, not that that is likely to happen, but you never know.

 

We’ve already seen stories from General Motors that its Cruze Diesel intended to take market share from Volkswagen has the goods when it comes to beating the 46 mpg highway rating the EPA gives the Cruze.

On Saturday, an independent road trip was documented by GM Inside News effectively saying more of the same: Alex Villani wrote a personal and detailed account of an out-and-back road trip from New Jersey to Ohio with the more-then-$25,000 Cruze that saw 53.6 mpg on average and above 56 mpg on the return trip.

The EPA estimates the 15.6 gallon tank should allow for 717 miles, but Villani went 99 more than that at 816.

“So what does this mean? It means to us that the Cruze diesel can walk the walk, proving that it can pull down considerably higher fuel economy numbers than the ones that the EPA published,” wrote Villani. “It means that Volkswagen no longer has the market cornered when it comes to affordable diesel options.”

He said that also considering the Cruze incorporates lessons learned in the Cruze Eco, and though it’s much pricier than entry level Cruzes, it comes packed with nearly every option.

Outwardly, the car appears much like any Cruze except for badging. Under the hood, it has a 2.0-liter turbo diesel – the same displacement of a Jetta TDI.

Villani said he did not resort to hypermiling tricks, nor did he shed any weight that came standard in order to get his travel distance and mileage.

Average speeds were legal, and the trip did include up and down grades, construction traffic, and stormy weather.

Source: U.S. EPA.

Source: U.S. EPA.

“Even though the car and I had to put up with both topographical and environmental hurdles, the Cruze managed to record a fantastic 52.6 miles per gallon!” Villani said of a first leg of his round trip journey to the Lords town Assembly Plant in Ohio. “Mind you, this was with moderate air conditioning use and doing anywhere between 55 and 62 miles per hour, as I found the 60-62 mph range produced the best numbers while maintaining speed up hills.”

His story finished with a hopeful note, having been satisfied the car is competitive.

“This could open the floodgates of acceptance for diesel engine technology at GM and make it something viable for the US market in more than one car,” wrote Villani. “This could be the start of something different for GM’s North American arm and something that could help separate GM’s entries versus the competition in their respective markets.”

To read the whole account in detail, go to GMInsideNews.

This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 17th, 2013 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 97


  1. 1
    Eco_Turbo

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:03 am)

    Even more amazing when you consider all the heavy safety gear on cars. Imagine that engine in a 80s Chevette.


  2. 2
    jim seko

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:21 am)

    A gallon of diesel produces 14% more CO2 emissions than a gallon of gasoline.


  3. 3
    koz

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:28 am)

    A $25+K Cuze GM? Really? Is “clean” diesel cleaner than an ECO gas model per mile? At 60mph and moderate temps the Volt would get about 43-46mpg as is in extended range mode. GM could offer a 12KWH, 30KW generator, weight reduced model with better performance in almost all situations and better overall fuel economy range extended mode.

    Relax naysayers. 9.3KWh usage of the 12KWh liquid thermally controlled battery will provide similar AER for the weight reduced version. Newer chemistry and 4KWH less, smaller engine, and reduced weight platform could shave 300-500lbs from the cars weight. Adjusting MM level and the non-MM Mode for dummies AKA Hold mode would allow for similar performance on long uphill runs. The smaller battery should also allow for 5 seats. Price is reduced with smaller battery and high volume smaller engine but needs to be reduced below $30K at the end of rebates (in today’s dollars).


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    Eco_Turbo

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:39 am)

    jim seko,

    So I guess it’s good that Diesels burn about 28% less gallons of the stuff.


  5. 5
    jim1961

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:53 am)

    Eco_Turbo:
    jim seko,

    So I guess it’s good that Diesels burn about 28% less gallons of the stuff.

    The Cruze diesel is EPA rated at 33 MPG combined. The Cruze Eco is rated at 31 MPG combined. An equally priced hybrid gets BETTER MPG than the Cruze diesel or VW TDI.

    Can you show the math you used to get 28%?


  6. 6
    Eco_Turbo

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:01 am)

    jim1961,

    40 Cruze eco Hwy/ 54 this trip Hwy observed. Maybe should be ~26%.


  7. 7
    jim1961

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:08 am)

    Eco_Turbo:
    jim1961,

    40 Cruze eco Hwy/ 54 this trip Hwy observed. Maybe should be ~26%.

    To take one trip by one person who got better than average efficiency with the diesel and then comparing them to a number (40) which is less than the EPA rating for the Cruze Eco seems a bit of a stretch. I have heard similar stories of people beating the EPA numbers on Cruze Eco. The EPA may not be a perfect test procedure but it’s the best way, in my opinion to compare apples to apples. According to the EPA Cruze diesel emits 391 grams of CO2 per mile and Cruze Eco emits 336 grams of CO2 per mile. (includes upstream emissions) That’s 16% higher emissions.


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    Loboc

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:21 am)

    Personally, I would not buy a Volt with a Diesel engine. Diesel fuel smells worse than gas.

    I would buy a CNG Volt though. 100% US sourced energy.

    I would buy an E85 (or E100) Volt.

    I would buy a BEV Volt @ 120 AER.

    I would not buy any Cruze because it’s a step backwards.


  9. 9
    taser54

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:31 am)

    jim seko,

    Plant some trees to offset.


  10. 10
    jim1961

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:32 am)

    Loboc:
    Personally, I would not buy a Volt with a Diesel engine. Diesel fuel smells worse than gas.

    I would buy a CNG Volt though. 100% US sourced energy.

    I would buy an E85 (or E100) Volt.

    I would buy a BEV Volt @ 120 AER.

    I would not buy any Cruze because it’s a step backwards.

    The worst part of switching to diesel for the Volt would be added cost. I know we all love our Volts but we must admit the sticker price is what is holding back sales and costs need to be reduced not increased. Increased cost would be a huge step backwards.


  11. 11
    jim1961

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:34 am)

    taser54:
    jim seko,

    Plant some trees to offset.

    I’ve lost count of how many trees I’ve planted. I drive a Volt and my wife’s car is a Leaf. We purchase wind energy to power them. I think I’ve beat the emissions of the Cruze diesel by a very wide margin.


  12. 12
    Ferg

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:14 am)

    I traded in a Jetta diesel for my Volt.

    It takes much more energy to produce a gallon of gasoline compared to a gallon of diesel. The Jetta emissions are so good that you can run your finger around the inside of the tailpipe and have no residue. (Try that in your Prius.) Bottom line, when you compare the amount of energy getting oil from the ground and converting it to a gallon of diesel and running it through a Jetta or a Cruz, it is much cleaner than a comparable Gasoline engine.

    My lifetime average for my car was 43 mpg over 40,000 miles.

    Ferg


  13. 13
    Darius

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:16 am)

    I would put side by side Prius hybrid and Cruze diesel for comparison. Somehow Jetta 34 MPG EPA rating looks too low. VW was never happy with EPA ratings.

    The fueleconomy.gov says that 2013 Prius MPG could be as low as 34 but 2013 Jetta average not lower than 44. I do not understand how EPA setting MPG ratings. The article used 2014 model therefore no actual figures.
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33324&id=32717

    My idea is not talking about EREV benefits but showing that there is no real added value of pure hybrids. The US should not go for diesel but directly jump to EV or EREV.


  14. 14
    Ziv

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:25 am)

    I have never been a big fan of diesel for a couple reasons, first the weight, then the cost and finally, the fact that a US gallon of diesel is around 128,700 BTU’s, whereas a gallon of gasoline has about 115,500 BTU’s. Refining oil into gasoline, diesel, fuel oil and all the other products that come out of a barrel of oil is pretty complicated, but there is no way to get as many gallons of diesel out of a barrel of oil as you can get of gasoline.
    So when a diesel aficionado says he is getting 10-12% more miles per gallon of diesel than an equivalent gasoline powered car, it is in large part due to the fact that diesel uses more of the energy in a barrel of oil than a similar amount of gasoline.
    And I still would like to see the Volt Gen II come out with a lighter, quieter, more efficient gas powered ICE genset with a driver adjustable Mountain Mode. But a cheaper Volt is more important than any of those items on my wish list.


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    kdawg

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:31 am)

    I wonder how much of a chunk this will take from Jetta sales. VW sells about 13,000 Jettas/month. They have Jetta hybrid too that gets 48/42mpg.

    I see this Cruze (along w/the Jetta) being much more popular in Europe, but even Europe is starting to get away from diesel.


  16. 16
    Neromanceres

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:47 am)

    I think it’s good that GM is bringing diesel cars to North America. Every diesel car I’ve seen has been able to far exceed EPA ratings. Diesel engines are inherently more efficient because they don’t have the restriction of a throttle body like a gas powered vehicle and run at a higher compression ratio. Recent emissions requirements have also made diesel vehicles even cleaner than gas powered vehicles in North America.

    While diesel does produce more CO2 on a per unit basis the increase in efficiency more than offsets this by a wide margin. Also there appears to be more CO2 neutral bio fuel options that are easier to manufacture as a replacement for diesel than gasoline. So in the future I see replacing diesel fuel as easier than replacing gasoline.

    Currently in Canada diesel fuel is running at 10 cents/L less than regular gasoline so I see this being a very popular car here in Canada.


  17. 17
    Chris C

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:50 am)

    This looks like something more geared toward the Euro market. Europeans love turbo diesels. I spent the last few months in Romania and half the cars were TDI. It might take a lot to get Americans to accept them. Europeans always say the TDI’s last a lot longer than petrol engines as well, not sure if that is true, but it is the perception there.


  18. 18
    haroldC

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:53 am)

    The cost of diesel at the pump should be factored into any comparisons made. The days of diesel being cheaper than gas have somehow disappeared, making the diesel advantage a moot point in many areas.
    haroldC


  19. 19
    Nelson

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:58 am)

    Why is GM living in the past (40-50mpg) when they can leap frog every other car with Voltec? My 2011 Volt has a lifetime average of 219mpg. GM please – please – please start making variants! Buick Electra, Chevy Equinox Voltec, Chevy Silverado Voltec, Malibu Voltec…..all with different AERs and CSM mpg…..all capable of 100+mpg averages.
    GM please embrace the future, be bold and go for it.

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


  20. 20
    kdawg

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (9:03 am)

    Ferg: It takes much more energy to produce a gallon of gasoline compared to a gallon of diesel.

    Do you have data on this? To me it seems they are all produced at the same time at the refinery so not sure how you separate the costs for each. Diesel uses more oil, which is more energy, thus the higher price.

    refinery.gif

    EDIT: I did find this,
    It takes less refining to create diesel fuel, which is why it used to be cheaper than gasoline. Since 2004, however, demand for diesel has risen for several reasons, including increased industrialization and construction in China and the U.S. [source: Energy Information Administration].
    Diesel fuel has a higher energy density than gasoline. On average, 1 gallon (3.8 L) of diesel fuel contains approximately 155×106 joules (147,000 BTU), while 1 gallon of gasoline contains 132×106 joules (125,000 BTU). This, combined with the improved efficiency of diesel engines, explains why diesel engines get better mileage than equivalent gasoline engines.

    In terms of the environment, diesel has some pros and cons. The pros — diesel emits very small amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide, emissions that lead to global warming. The cons — high amounts of nitrogen compounds and particulate matter (soot) are released from burning diesel fuel, which lead to acid rain, smog and poor health conditions.
    http://www.howstuffworks.com/diesel3.htm

    EDIT#2: Found this on the wiki for Diesel

    Diesel is generally simpler to refine from petroleum than gasoline, and contains hydrocarbons having a boiling point in the range of 180–360°C (360–680°F). The price of diesel traditionally rises during colder months as demand for heating oil rises, which is refined in much the same way. Because of recent changes in fuel quality regulations, additional refining is required to remove sulfur, which contributes to a sometimes higher cost. In many parts of the United States and throughout the United Kingdom and Australia,[10] diesel may be priced higher than petrol.[11] Reasons for higher-priced diesel include the shutdown of some refineries in the Gulf of Mexico, diversion of mass refining capacity to gasoline production, and a recent transfer to ultra-low-sulfur diesel (ULSD), which causes infrastructural complications.[12] In Sweden, a diesel fuel designated as MK-1 (class 1 environmental diesel) is also being sold; this is a ULSD that also has a lower aromatics content, with a limit of 5%.[13] This fuel is slightly more expensive to produce than regular ULSD.


  21. 21
    kdawg

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (9:29 am)

    While looking for comparisons between diesel and gasoline I ran across this. Interesting.
    (I’m sure DaveG has a lot more data on this)

    gasvbio_zps583d86ca.jpg


  22. 22
    George S. Bower

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (9:44 am)

    Even though this is a GM Volt site I think articles like this are still interesting to read. I’m not a Diesel fan unless you change the fuel to CNG. I hate diesel fuel. I don’t want to smell it and I don’t want to touch the grimy Diesel pump handle.

    Still though, I think this is a good offering from GM.

    Don’t start thinking about a Diesel a a RE for the Volt though.

    Remember we are trying to REDUCE cost in the Volt. A Diesel RE would INCREASE cost.


  23. 23
    DonC

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (9:44 am)

    Diesel is 11%-12% more energy dense so it has to give you better MPG than gas or it’s a non-starter.

    For the Volt, the big pro for a diesel engine would be that it gets great MPG on long trips and you’re most likely to use the genset on the Volt when you’re on a long trip. That would seem to be outweighed by the cons which, as mentioned, are COST, WEIGHT, and increased NHV. Also you have increased maintenance.

    The big problem for me when discussing alternatives for the Volt genset is that I use it so little it’s hard for me to get excited about it. If I had $2000 to spend on the Volt drive train I’d spend it on battery cells that would give me 15-20 more miles of electric range long before I’d spend it on a diesel genset.


  24. 24
    Raymondjram

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (9:46 am)

    jim1961: The Cruze diesel is EPA rated at 33 MPG combined. The Cruze Eco is rated at 31 MPG combined. An equally priced hybrid gets BETTER MPG than the Cruze diesel or VW TDI.

    The Cruze Diesel gets much more than the EPA rating. I saw this article yesterday, and it is true. Getting a better than EPA MPG rating is very common across all GM vehicles. My 1995 Regal is EPA rated at 16 but I did two safe modifications, and I now get 20 MPG plus lesser emissions. I am waiting for a Volt to replace this Regal.

    And the best part is that this Cruze is American! Now no one has to buy an imported Diesel to get such high mileage. Very few (you can count them on one hand) hybrids can pass 53 MPG. But we don’t need more Diesel, or imported hybrids, either. We need more American electrics!

    Raymond


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    volt11

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (10:09 am)

    I would love to know if GM could apply eAssist effectively to this diesel, along with auto-stop-start. Could we see a 60MPG EPA rating? We may never know. I do know they should get the Malibu diesel here as soon as possible.


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    volt11

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (10:19 am)

    And the best part is that this Cruze is American! Now no one has to buy an imported Diesel to get such high mileage.

    Raymond

    Sadly, most people couldn’t care less where it comes from. In fact many would prefer that it not be American, because they’ve been brainwashed by Consumer Reports.


  27. 27
    volt11

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (10:24 am)

    Neromanceres:
    I think it’s good that GM is bringing diesel cars to North America.Every diesel car I’ve seen has been able to far exceed EPA ratings. are inherently more efficient because they don’t have the restriction of a throttle body like a gas powered vehicle and run at a higher compression ratio.Recent emissions requirements have also made diesel vehicles even cleaner than gas powered vehicles in North America.

    Can you quote a source for that (diesels being cleaner)? I find it hard to believe. Like I highly doubt a diesel could pass a PZEV test.

    As to efficiency, let’s not forget that diesel fuel itself simply contains more energy than gasoline by volume. Estimates vary, but it’s in the range of 20% more energy. No wonder they get better mileage. I think that is the major factor, not combustion efficiency.


  28. 28
    Dave G

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (10:42 am)

    kdawg: While looking for comparisons between diesel and gasoline I ran across this. Interesting.
    (I’m sure DaveG has a lot more data on this)gasvbio_zps583d86ca.jpg

    The chart says it better than I could.

    The only additional point is that cellulosic ethanol can only replace about 1/3 of our gasoline consumption. Anything above that, and it starts affecting food supply and/or requiring more fossil fuels.

    So the idea is to use electricity for most of our driving, and only use cellulosic ethanol for occasional longer trips.


  29. 29
    Tim Hart

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (10:58 am)

    Pretty hard to get excited about anything that burns fuel after owning a Volt or a BEV.


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    George S. Bower

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:02 am)

    Tim Hart:
    Pretty hard to get excited about anything that burns fuel after owning a Volt or a BEV.

    That’s the bottom line.
    +1 as Noel would say.


  31. 31
    Drd

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:10 am)

    My cost to drive 25 Miles is $0.42 for the Volt Vs $2.89 for the Cruze Diesel. Why buy a Diesel to save money on gas?


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    pjwood

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:15 am)

    Ferg: I traded in a Jetta diesel for my Volt…. Jetta emissions are so good that you can run your finger around the inside of the tailpipe and have no residue. Ferg

    We still have our 2009 Jetta diesel, and I have the $5,000+ estimate to help show where VW put all that soot. They completely re-engineered a non-urea based system, and long-term it’s a failure. The DPF’s fill up, and aren’t serviceable. The EGR flaps were just recalled, and many of these cars are destined for owners who will simply “Delete” the system. Now, there’s an environmental solution.

    When it comes to VW diesel vs. EV, I just want to grab people and show them the schematic of the exhaust, alone. It makes no difference how long a diesel block lasts, if you get hit with something like a fuel pump failure in one of these cars. She likes the drive, but I can’t wait to replace it, and the $200 monthly fuel bills, with a larger EREV. Somebody just needs to make one…


  33. 33
    Jackson

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:27 am)

    I generally agree with most of the comments against diesel in cars, but that’s not the whole story. Even in a new era of electrification, there are still very little to no replacements for diesel engines in construction equipment, locomotives, transoceanic shipping, and over-the-road trucks. Could keeping diesel out of European consumer vehicles (in favor of electricity) make more of the fuel available for these uses? With more BEVs and diesel-based EREVs on the road, the result could ease economic constraints on these activities through lower fuel costs. The benefits of vehicle electrification are bright and clear to those of us directly involved, but many more are subtle, far-reaching and not always easy to appreciate.

    A wild card is the development of bio diesel, but I don’t believe this will offer much of an alternative unless or until the fuel-from-algae process becomes more economic on a large scale (only this seems capable of working on broad enough scales, and would compete very little with food sources). JMO.

    Development of ethanol and bio diesel reflect a laudable attempt to broaden the fuel source away from petroleum. I’d rather see an attempt to broaden available fuel types by radically changing the type of engine used in an EREV or strong series plug-in hybrid (Most will not supply a broad enough mechanical power band to be used without electric drive and battery storage). Several engines are based on continuous, or external combustion, which could in theory use most of the distillates on Dave G’s chart, and many more besides.

    I like this one, if only because it is of similar / smaller size, and can be manufactured with less-exotic materials (than a turbine, say):

    2r6yy3k.gif

    The Nutating Engine uses an external combustor not seen in the animation. Almost any liquid or liquified fuel with sufficient energy density could be used (though in practice, emission control will narrow this somewhat, though continuous combustion is inherently easier to treat than intermittent or pulse combustion).

    There is an urgent need for research into these alternatives, but the results would so increase the spectrum of available fuels, that the benefits would exceed that of the increased production of any one new fuel; such as ethanol or bio diesel.


  34. 34
    volt11

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:42 am)

    Jackson: I generally agree with most of the comments against diesel in cars, but that’s not the whole issue.Even in a new era of electrification, there are still very little to no replacements for diesel engines in construction equipment, locomotives, transoceanic shipping, and over-the-road trucks. Could keeping diesel out of consumer vehicles (in favor of electricity) make more of the fuel available for these uses?With more BEVs and petrol-based EREVs on the road, the result could ease economic constraints on these activities through lower fuel costs.The benefits of vehicle electrification are bright and clear to those of us directly involved, but many more are subtle and far-reaching.

    A wild card is the development of bio diesel, but I don’t believe this will offer much of an alternative unless or until the fuel-from-algae process becomes economic on a large scale.JMO.

    I thought we were seeing a shift to natural gas for some of those heavy-lifting types of vehicles, mainly because it’s cheaper. Can’t happen soon enough IMO. And you mention locomotives, but many trains are electrified from overhead lines (or the infamous 3rd rail). I certainly wouldn’t mind saying goodbye to the days of seeing black smoke belching from diesel exhaust stacks, and let’s face it, that still happens quite a bit.


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    Blind Guy

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:55 am)

    Does anyone know if the Cruise diesel and or all other modern diesels use a product like ADBlue to further reduce harmful emissions? Using a product like ADBlue seems to be a good thing but how many people are willing to pay more for this tech? I love my AER and just shake my head when we notice big diesel work trucks being used for any kind of personal errand; just to have an excuse to drive & hear their brawny turbo diesel truck engine and the attention I think they crave with it JMO.


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    pjkPA

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:58 am)

    All we have to do is put the same non tariffs on the Jetta…
    How much will the Cruse sell for in the EC especially Germany?

    That’s the question….

    All the ingenuity will never overcome unfair trade.


  37. 37
    Dave G

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:59 am)

    Jackson: I’d rather see an attempt to broaden available fuel types by radically changing the type of engine used in an EREV or strong plug-in hybrid. (Most will not supply a broad enough mechanical power band to be used without electric drive with storage). Several engines are based on continuous, or external combustion, which could in theory use most of the distillates on that chart, and many more besides.
    I like this one, if only because it is of similar / smaller size, and can be manufactured with less-exotic materials (than a turbine, say):
    2r6yy3k.gif
    The Nutating engine uses an external combustor not seen in the animation. Almost any liquid or liquified fuel with sufficient energy density could be used (though in practice, emission control will narrow this somewhat, though continuous combustion is inherently easier to treat than intermittent or pulse combustion).
    There is an urgent need for research into these alternatives, but the results would so increase the spectrum of available fuels, that the benefits would exceed the increased production of any one fuel; such as ethanol or bio diesel.

    Yes! Exactly. +1

    Many people think an EREV has to have an ICE based range extender. They often say that if there was a viable alternative to an ICE, it would have been used years ago. But they miss the main point: When you disconnect the engine from the wheels, that totally changes game, and an ICE is probably no longer the best solution.

    And as you say, an External Combustion Engine (ECE) can run on virtually any liquid fuel, or even mixtures of various liquid fuels that can end up in your tank. Instead of popping explosions in cylinders, the fuel just burns continuously. That allows software to adjust things in real time for optimal efficiency with any type of fuel mixture.

    The major drawback of ECE is that it doesn’t produce much torque, so if you connect it to the wheels, acceleration would be horrible. But if you use it just to produce electricity, it’s probably better than an ICE.


  38. 38
    Jackson

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (12:01 pm)

    volt11,

    Locomotives can potentially use more energy sources than the other examples. The sources of CNG (or even LNG) could be placed strategically on the closed rail system with relatively few fueling points. Electrified tracks are available, and are almost universal in Germany, Austria (and other parts of Europe), but would probably be too expensive for the kind of distances we face in this country. The key here is that freight locomotives themselves require no modification (other than the overhead catenary) to use either kind of track; since they are already diesel electric. This allows them to perform both local and long-distance tasks.

    The situation for over-the-road trucking and construction equipment is far less suitable for CNG or LNG adoption, simply because of their more dispersed nature; requiring many more fueling points and infrastructure than can probably be provided in time for low-cost NG (especially compared to recharging points which use the existing electrical-delivery infrastructure. I could be wrong, but I just don’t see most construction equipment and semi tractors running as effectively on stored electricity for many, many years, if ever).


  39. 39
    Noel Park

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (12:12 pm)

    Chris C: This looks like something more geared toward the Euro market. Europeans love turbo diesels.

    #17

    Aren’t there tax breaks that make diesel cheaper in some or most EU countries? +1


  40. 40
    Noel Park

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (12:26 pm)

    The Cruze diesel has arrived too late for me. As always, I hope they sell a million of ‘em, but I’m outta the game.

    I agree with most of the the comments about the idea of a diesel “range extender”. On the other hand, after thinking about it, I buy gas about 6 times a year. So if diesel was a little less convenient I could deal with it, LOL. But, as so many have pointed out, if the cost of fuel is actually a push, why bother?


  41. 41
    Noel Park

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (12:35 pm)

    Jackson: there are still very little to no replacements for diesel engines in construction equipment, locomotives, transoceanic shipping, and over-the-road trucks

    #33

    Just to be clear, ships do not run on the same “diesel fuel” as the others. They use a much heavier grade of “residuum”, probably “industrial fuel” on kdawg’s chart which is part of what is left over after all of the diesel fuel is refined out. It’s cheaper because there aren’t as many customers and they don’t bother to take out the sulfur. It’s also WAY dirtier in terms of air pollution.

    CARB finally forced them to switch to “distillate” fuel, which is way better but still not as good as real “diesel”, let alone ultra low sulfur diesel, within 24 miles of the CA coast. This to cut down on the particulate levels in the “Diesel Death Zone”. Other than that they burn the really dirty stuff the rest of the time. The prevailing wind brings it all on shore eventually anyway.


  42. 42
    kdawg

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (12:37 pm)

    Saw this today. Totally OT, but related to the Volt.

    OnStar Teams Up with TimberRock for EV Solar Charging
    Deploys first ‘real-world’ use of OnStar’s Smart Grid solutions

    timberrock_zps82b69f1a.jpg


  43. 43
    Streetlight

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (12:38 pm)

    Alex’s 54 MPG just didn’t beat EPA’s 46 mpg–he shellacked it. GM certainly has a legit complaint against EPA. Here EPA nails one maker for overstating two-three MPG but with CRUZE gets a free ride!? You know…what goes around comes around.

    No one on the planet has more Diesel background than GM. Diesel’s the workhorse for commercial and in-board engine boats. Looks like GM’s going to succeed in remaking how buyers perceive Diesel powered cars.

    Now about the notion of a VOLT 50 (EV) — 50 (ER) seems to me we’re just about there. Suppose we put an enlarged CRUZE fuel tank into a VOLT (think ELR) with 50-50 capability. Maybe across the U.S. on one-two tanks…


  44. 44
    Jackson

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (12:39 pm)

    Noel Park: Just to be clear, ships do not run on the same “diesel fuel” as the others. They use a much heavier grade of “residuum”, probably “industrial fuel” on kdawg’s chart which is part of what is left over after all of the diesel fuel is refined out. It’s cheaper because there aren’t as many customers and they don’t bother to take out the sulfur. It’s also WAY dirtier in terms of air pollution.

    You are absolutely correct. I included them only because the engines are essentially diesels (large enough to effectively compress the heavier fuel for combustion. Some are three stories tall with cylinders you could stand in). Sorry, didn’t mean to confuse the issue.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (1:07 pm)

    Jackson: With more BEVs and diesel-based EREVs on the road

    Oops, I meant “petrol-based” or “gasoline-based.” :-(


  46. 46
    Loboc

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (1:46 pm)

    Nelson: Why is GM living in the past (40-50mpg) when they can leap frog every other car with Voltec?

    Because they have to make money on every car line. Voltec is still to costly to roll out to anything less expensive than an ELR.

    Besides, Volt has zero competition (except maybe i3). There are no other cars that have 40aer/40mpg.

    How can you build an Impala EREV and expect to compete with a Taurus that is 1/2 the price?

    Let’s see what they do with Volt 2.0.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (2:00 pm)

    Streetlight: No one on the planet has more Diesel background than GM.

    #43

    Well they sold Detroit Diesel to Roger Penske several years ago and most of the modernization and application of electronic engine management has take place since then. And the diesels in the light trucks are Isuzus. So how current their diesel technology is may be open to debate.

    Come to think of it, I wonder where they source the diesel for the Cruze? Is it made in house? In the USA?


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (2:04 pm)

    kdawg: OnStar Teams Up with TimberRock for EV Solar Charging
    Deploys first ‘real-world’ use of OnStar’s Smart Grid solutions

    #42

    With apologies to Stan Freberg, “Well, V to G is a good thing, I’ll buy that.” But they’ve got a lot of selling to do to get me to let them start messing with my expensive Volt battery, LOL. Make it worth my while and we can talk, but the home solar panel power buyback programs I see here in CA underwhelm me. So I’m from Missouri.


  49. 49
    Streetlight

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (2:28 pm)

    Noel Park: Come to think of it, I wonder where they source the diesel for the Cruze? Is it made in house? In the USA?

    FYI: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-cruze-diesel-first-drive-review

    “Chevrolet’s turbo-diesel four-cylinder was conceived in Torino, Italy, and is created in Kaiserslautern, Germany, but it has been educated in the U.S. It’s not a new engine, being already used in Opel Astras and various other GM vehicles around the world at a rate of 400,000 annually. Still, the U.S. version is unique…” Car and Driver.

    True, GM sold off much of its Diesel Ops over the years—but NOT all ops. This from Wikipedia:

    “General Motors Diesel Division was a unit of General Motors founded in 1938. GMDD’s Canadian operations were renamed as Diesel Division of General Motors of Canada Limited in 1975.

    The company was a manufacturer of diesel engines, diesel locomotives, transit buses and military vehicles.

    The engine making unit later became Detroit Diesel and sold to DaimlerChrysler AG in 2000 (formerly part of General Motors Diesel). The locomotive unit (Electro Motive Diesel) was acquired by private investors, the transit bus divisions were purchased by TMC in the U.S. and MCI in Canada (the latter entities were sold to form Nova Bus in 1993), and the GM Defense unit was purchased by General Dynamics.” (Citations omitted) Credit: Google Wikipedia.

    This doesn’t come near touching on the “vast quantities of armaments, [diesel] vehicles, and aircraft for the Allied war effort during World War II” (Wiki) (Emphasis added)


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (3:12 pm)

    Even though I love my 2012 Volt, I must say the Cruise Diesel looks tempting. Chevy got it right by giving it a more upscale interior. They did a wonderful job on the Volt interior as well. Contrast this to VW — in the U.S., leather interiors are “verboten” — they won’t even let you order one (everywhere else in the world you can). Also contrast to the Nissan Leaf, with an interior so cheap it’s insulting — and the Leaf has a sound system by Clarion, which makes el-cheapo sound systems that you see hanging on peg boards in truck stops.


  51. 51
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    Jul 17th, 2013 (3:22 pm)

    In online discussions of the Volt, I have often seen people in the peanut gallery complain that EV’s are unneeded and all we need are diesel cars that “they” are keeping us from having. I wonder if those people will now rejoice and run out and buy a diesel Cruze?


  52. 52
    Mark

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (3:24 pm)

    Dave G,

    Be careful with any stats from before heavy oil, including the Oil sands, began to Make up a large slice of US gasoline consumption. The amount of energy used to steam an barrel of oil out of the ground is 3 times that required to refine it.


  53. 53
    Raymondjram

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (3:28 pm)

    Noel, I believe I found the source of the Chevy Cruze Diesel engine. And the same article has a title saying that the Fiat-Chrysler EcoDiesel Engine is a GM design.

    Read more here:

    http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/07/fiat-chrysler-3-0l-diesel-v6-is-actually-a-gm-engine/

    “For example, the 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel’s 2.0L oil-burner is a VM Motori engine.”

    Read more here:
    http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/03/did-you-know-2014-chevy-cruze-diesel-has-some-fiat-in-it/

    GM is really a worldwide company. Its designs has been in almost every other car manufacturer!

    Raymond


  54. 54
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    Jul 17th, 2013 (3:43 pm)

    Loboc,

    At the very least they should be able to take a page out of VIA Motors play book and build the Silverado-V, Tahoe-V and Suburban-V. Has VIA disclosed monthly sales numbers?

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (3:43 pm)

    OT:

    Could this concept design be the Buick Electra? Look at the “Electra” on the rear!
    http://www.carbodydesign.com/media/2013/07/02-Buick-Riviera-Concept-Design-Sketch-03-720×265.jpg

    Raymond


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (4:05 pm)

    Steverino: I wonder if those people will now rejoice and run out and buy a diesel Cruze?

    #51

    Yeah, kinda like the 50K + people on the Volt “waiting list”, LOL. +1


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (4:06 pm)

    Nelson: Has VIA disclosed monthly sales numbers?

    #54

    If any, LOL.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (4:10 pm)

    Raymondjram: oel, I believe I found the source of the Chevy Cruze Diesel engine.

    #53

    Interesting stuff. Thanks. +1


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (4:32 pm)

    Noel Park,

    I remember reading something about a VIA partnership with PG&E to replace “many” of their 13,000 fleet vehicles. I haven’t heard any news about VIA going bankrupt or closing shop due to poor sales. They’re probably afraid to brag about sales and have someone at GM brass take notice.

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


  60. 60
    Jackson

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (4:53 pm)

    Nelson,

    I’ve long suspected that “the fix is in,” and that a VIA package may someday soon come to be ordered through GMC (at least for the pickups).


  61. 61
    Kent

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (4:55 pm)

    Noel Park: #51

    Yeah, kinda like the 50K + people on the Volt “waiting list”, LOL.+1

    I did my share….I went out and got two!


  62. 62
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    Jul 17th, 2013 (5:10 pm)

    OT
    I just got a letter from my ARIZONA utility APS relative to my solar panels.

    Right now I am on net metering which means if I put a kwh into the grid it goes into a savings bank of kwhs that I can draw from in the future (until the end of the year at which time I get payed a wholesale rate for what is in the kwh “bank)”.

    I am currently not on a TOU plan as it is very complicated and can result in some hefty charges if one goes over the max allowable kw usage (you CA guys probably know all about TOU).

    APS is going to change the net metering such that any future solar customers WILL BE FORCED onto a TOU plan. People such as myself are grandfathered under the old rules so I will not be forced onto TOU—-only future solar customers.

    Question:

    For all you CA solar people:

    Are you forced to use TOU plans??


  63. 63
    jeffhre

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (5:45 pm)

    Ferg: It takes much more energy to produce a gallon of gasoline compared to a gallon of diesel.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but part of the reason gas is more difficult and energy costly is the attempt to get more of it from a barrel of oil as gasoline to satisfy demand. When gasoline was dumped on the ground and into rivers, as an unwanted by-product of kerosene sales, John D. Rockefeller was trying to get fledgling car makers to adopt gasoline as a fuel. Rudolph Diesel had been using peanut oil and Henry Ford was experimenting with Ethanol from local farms.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (5:53 pm)

    pjkPA,

    already been selling there for the last 20 years+. in Germany it is known as the opel astra. in the uk it is labeled as a Vauxhall astre . the cruze/astra 2.0 diesel engine is made in Austria. hot seller. scary cam belt just like vw though.


  65. 65
    MotoEV

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:01 pm)

    Credit the car’s 2-liter, inline four-cylinder, turbocharged (forced air) diesel engine — designed by GM suppliers in Italy, built by GM affiliates in Germany and installed by United Auto Workers union members in Lordstown, Ohio.

    * Designed by suppliers
    * Built by affiliates
    * Installed by

    Other than the last part, how much of this value chain is from GM intellectual capital?


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:08 pm)

    Jackson,

    look who the #1 buyer of petroleum is in the u.s. surprise it’s not the military (dod). union pacific railroad corporation. 5000 hungry locomotives with 4000us gallon tanks all burning what amounts to bunker c (that thick low grade diesel you were talking about). so much for “low demand”.


  67. 67
    Tim Shevlin

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:10 pm)

    Driving 55-62 mph for that distance would drive me nuts. Driving the Volt at 65 is even hard to do if you want to get anywhere on trips. This is a stunt for bragging and ad rights, but it ain’t real world, IMHO. BTW, a friend’s diesel VW SUV left him stranded in the mountains when the diesel fuel iced up.
    The added weight of a diesel would not help Volt performance. The current ICE is no tech marvel, but it is reliable, can be safely ignored (almost) and will probably last forever. (cast iron block)


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:15 pm)

    Blind Guy,

    the cruze diesel I saw at the car show has a urea tank. I take it that’s like adblue sort of.


  69. 69
    James

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:24 pm)

    Just watched a very interesting Consumer Reports panel on YouTube wherein
    media was invited to discuss alt. energy vehicles. You might want to look it
    up, it is rather lengthy so you’ll have to have some time on your hands. To
    surmise what I saw, it’s odd how media folks are still so in the dark re: BEVs
    EREVs and hybrids even after all this time. Just the same ole questions being
    asked like: “Doesn’t the carbon output from coal electrical plants offset any
    savings found by driving electric vehicles?”…etc. It’s as if this person feels
    very empowered and intelligent by asking this deep, deep question that’s only
    been asked 100,000,000 times before. Also worth noting was the lack of
    knowledge from the government officials on the panel, such as the NHTSA
    rep who said he wasn’t aware of any current EV road taxes, and hasn’t heard
    of any…???

    Yes, this discourse brings up diesel cars, and it seems very notable that folks
    just don’t get that the United States of America just doesn’t refine much diesel
    at all compared to gas. Unlike the graphics above, refiners just can’t switch a
    valve and make more diesel. The entire refining process is different. I’ve read
    that if we started today, it would take 6-9 years to get more diesel refineries
    operational. This is why in my area, diesel is as costly as premium grade gas,
    or 20-50 cents per. gal. more expensive. In times of great need, the price
    of diesel skyrockets. In 2008 it was over $5.09 per gallon in Seattle! Most
    of the diesel we do refine here goes to commercial use. Even the Consumer
    Reports editor who just finished his test of the Diesel Cruze, admitted that,
    while he was able to find diesel on his long road trip, he had to drive around
    the back of the gas station to the uncovered, no debit card, 1960′s-era pump to fill up!

    Raymond will answer with his usual post re: making your own biodiesel, to
    which I’ll remind him – it’s not practical here in the “upper 50″ due to shortages
    of used cooking oil – which makes, “makin’ yer own” pointless.

    This Cruze is great for Europe. The folks who still laud diesel as some better
    choice than hybrids make me scratch my head. They just don’t have enough
    information to make a correct choice.

    In an OT note – if anyone is still on the fence about whether a high-mileage
    gasoline car, or a diesel is a good choice, remember that – as gas prices soar
    to over $4.00 per gallon ( for reg. Volt fans – we pay more for our premium! )
    and oil companies tell the media that it’s due to several major refineries
    nationwide being shut down for maintenance–Remind them that no new
    refineries are being planned to offset this condition. Also remind them that
    as of 2011 our refined fuels EXPORTS have tripled. Oil companies
    have discovered that sending refined gas to Central and South America is a
    very lucrative business, so we Americans – you guessed it, get less and pay
    more!

    Feel manipulated yet? Still feel diesel is an answer?

    JUST SAY NO TO OIL BURNERS! ,

    James


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:39 pm)

    OT: I should really post this in forums, but any Volt owners here tried using
    regular gas? I never fill my Volt with more than a half tank because I’m
    almost religious about driving on as much electricity as possible. Hydropower
    is clean and green – and I’m saving my pennies for enough solar to charge
    the car.

    I’m with all here who plead with GM to increase the Volt’s AER, as I definitely
    suffer from gas anxiety. The premium in my tank does get burned though. I
    have a few 60+ mile jaunts to take my kids to see grandma and other longer
    drives. I’m wondering if I can be Scottish ( frugal, not cheap! ) and add a
    1/3 tank of regular or mix just to save some greenbacks. If I know I’ll be
    doing a couple weeks of just short trips, I’ll use premium for sure. Also,
    what about additives or octane boosters? Any thoughts?

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


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    George S. Bower

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:44 pm)

    Tim Shevlin:
    The current ICE is no tech marvel, but it is reliable, can be safely ignored (almost)

    Another great bottom line.

    I like the (almost) part. Somehow , up a 5% grade with it winding up to 4300 RPM it is no masterpiece of NHV. Might as well replace it with a three cylinder. Save the money and the weight. No one will notice the difference.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:46 pm)

    On Topic:

    One point I’ve not seen mentioned here is the added cost of additives and
    service visits for “clean” diesels. Most clean diesels use urea injection and
    require periodic service to add these additives. We generally do not see the
    mention of these added costs in articles reviewing a new diesel automobile.
    I believe Mercedes and Volkswagen developed their latest clean diesel
    tech together, and require their “AddBlue” additive to keep things working
    properly. I haven’t researched whether this process can be DYI, but it
    seems their websites mention periodic filling should be done at the dealer
    and is required for warranty validity.

    A Plug Is A Beautiful Thing! ,

    James


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (6:50 pm)

    kdawg: Saw this today. Totally OT, but related to the Volt.

    Absolutely totally cool. I just hope they can step up the software. It’s been pretty lame.

    James: One point I’ve not seen mentioned here is the added cost of additives and
    service visits for “clean” diesels. Most clean diesels use urea injection and require periodic service to add these additives.

    That was what I meant when I said “additional maiintenance” but I wasn’t very clear.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:01 pm)

    Jackson: Nelson,

    I’ve long suspected that “the fix is in,” and that a VIA package may someday soon come to be ordered through GMC (at least for the pickups).

    From your lips to God’s ears! We can only hope this is the case!

    I’m not holding my breath though.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:10 pm)

    James: From your lips to God’s ears!We can only hope this is the case!

    I’m not holding my breath though.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    so what makes you guys think GM will buy Via??
    Just because BOB has something to do with it?
    I doubt it.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:21 pm)

    I think if you want to sell more Volts the last thing you would want to is add a two or three thousand bucks of diesel equipment to the price. A diesel ICE is heavier and requires an additional for the urea. No, I think GM has it right with the Volt, the ICE portion is used in the minority of times so keep it simple and low cost.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:24 pm)

    James: Even the Consumer
    Reports editor who just finished his test of the Diesel Cruze, admitted that,
    while he was able to find diesel on his long road trip, he had to drive around
    the back of the gas station to the uncovered, no debit card, 1960′s-era pump to fill up!

    This is the reason we need cars that can run on gasoline.

    Now imagine a range extender that can run on many different types of liquid fuels – gasoline, diesel, ethanol, bio-diesel, kerosene, or any mixture of these. That’s what an external combustion engine can provide.

    And by the way, forget about valves, camshafts, timing belts, starter motors, and mufflers. External combustion engines have dramatically fewer moving parts, much less noise, and higher efficiency. The only got-cha is that ECEs can’t be used in a regular car, only as a range extender for an EV.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:34 pm)

    emd: union pacific railroad corporation. 5000 hungry locomotives with 4000us gallon tanks all burning what amounts to bunker c (that thick low grade diesel you were talking about).

    #66

    True that. +1

    The “line haul” RR locomotives are some of the dirtiest pieces of equipment here in the Death Zone. And the railroads are THE most arrogant and intransigent about cleaning up their mess.


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    Noel Park

     

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:52 pm)

    George S. Bower: Somehow , up a 5% grade with it winding up to 4300 RPM it is no masterpiece of NHV. Might as well replace it with a three cylinder. Save the money and the weight. No one will notice the difference.

    #71

    I’m with you. +1


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:54 pm)

    Larry4pyro:
    I think if you want to sell more Volts the last thing you would want to is add a two or three thousand bucks of diesel equipment to the price.A diesel ICE is heavier and requires an additional for the urea.No, I think GM has it right with the Volt, the ICE portion is used in the minority of times so keep it simple and low cost.

    Thanks for the vote of support.

    In one of our daily articles I explained that the change in MPG in CS mode would only drop fleet fuel consumption 3.5% by going to a little 3 cyl SERIES Range extender.
    This 3.5% drop would only drop the fleet from 170 to 164 MPG. A negligable drop in light of the savings in weight and cost.

    Volt needs a little more AER not a trick RE.

    Here’s the reference on Volt fleet MPG.
    http://www.voltstats.net/

    Here’s the article:
    http://gm-volt.com/2013/06/07/my-vision-of-gen-2-0-volt/


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    Noel Park

     

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (7:55 pm)

    James: I believe Mercedes and Volkswagen developed their latest clean diesel
    tech together, and require their “AddBlue” additive to keep things working
    properly.

    #72

    I thought that VW was able to avoid the additive with their smaller engine but that anything over about 2.0L requires it.


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    Eco_Turbo

     

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:45 pm)

    George S. Bower,

    Two words – Balance shafts – much better than a three cylinder. Although I’ve never driven a three cylinder with balance shafts.


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    kdawg

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (8:58 pm)

    emd: ook who the #1 buyer of petroleum is in the u.s. surprise it’s not the military (dod). union pacific railroad corporation. 5000 hungry locomotives with 4000us gallon tanks all burning what amounts to bunker c (that thick low grade diesel you were talking about). so much for “low demand”.

    New tweet from Elon about the Hyperloop.

    Tesla’s Elon Musk has a wild new idea

    Tesla Motors Chief Executive and co-founder Elon Musk started off his week on Monday by tweeting an announcement that, from anyone else, would have sounded like a tease for a bad sci-fi movie.

    “Will publish Hyperloop alpha design by Aug 12. Critical feedback for improvements would be much appreciated.”

    If you still think electric cars or rocket ships are cool, you haven’t been keeping up with Musk. His “hyperloop” is a proposed “really rapid transit system” that he says will be able to get a passenger from San Francisco to Los Angeles in a half-hour. That would mean travel at 800 miles per hour, or about twice the speed of conventional aircraft.

    He has been a little vague on how this works, except to say recently that the concept is “a cross between a Concorde, a railgun, and an air-hockey table.”

    Also, he says it will be impossible to crash, always available on demand, way less expensive than current travel options and, ideally, solar-powered.

    Remember, this isn’t Donald Trump talking trash. This is Elon Musk, who has already changed the nature of money, as a co-founder of PayPal, the electronic payments system.

    Speculation is rife about what exactly this mode of transportation could be. Blogger Brian Dodson, who really is a rocket scientist, explains how he thinks it might work, based on the sparse information available.

    In short, it sounds like the hyperloop might be a kind of pneumatic tube for people. Musk has to be one of the few people on Earth who could suggest such an idea without getting laughed at.

    Ironically, the concept, like that of an electric car, isn’t new. Pneumatic tube systems, which use compressed air to move objects through a tube connecting fixed points, are still in use in some industries, but were more common in the late 19th century. In their early years, there was speculation that the technology could be used to transport people, but nobody ever proved it.

    Musk hasn’t promised proof at this point, just an “alpha design.” But he has said that he will make the design available as “open source,” and that he will not seek any patents for it.


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    Kent

     

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (9:22 pm)

    George S. Bower:

    Question:

    For all you CA solar people:

    Are you forced to use TOU plans??

    I got my solar panels in 2005 and at that time, PG&E had a TOU rate plan called E6. On this plan, peak times are May-Oct, M-F, noon to 6PM. PG&E discontinued the E6 and has a new E9 rate plan, which has 5-6 different tiers of rates. I’m grandfathered in to the E6 and I wouldn’t want to even deal with the E9. As far as I know, we are not required to use the TOU plans.


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    Jul 17th, 2013 (9:37 pm)

    Kent: .As far as I know, we are not required to use the TOU plans.

    Thx for the input Kent.


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    steve

     

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (10:41 pm)

    volt11: Can you quote a source for that (diesels being cleaner)? I find it hard to believe. Like I highly doubt a diesel could pass a PZEV test.

    As to efficiency, let’s not forget that diesel fuel itself simply contains more energy than gasoline by volume. Estimates vary, but it’s in the range of 20% more energy. No wonder they get better mileage. I think that is the major factor, not combustion efficiency.

    I think compression ratios on the order of 20:1 vs 10:1 for gas might contribute.


  87. 87
    JOE D.

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    Jul 17th, 2013 (11:27 pm)

    I drove a Cruise Diesel last week (The car was fantastic!). I asked the salesman if the car used a fuel additive to reduce the exhaust emissions. His reply was I don’t know. I decided to find out for myself and searched the car. Under the trunk mat there it was “Add GM exhaust fluid”. My question was how much does that cost and how often do you need to add the exhaust fluid? The answer was again I don’t know it’s a brand new car. I’m keeping the car on my list. I also drove a Volt right afterward it was a nice car but wasn’t as practical as the Cruise Diesel with my family of 5 and my wife’s 85 mile round trip to work.
    Blind Guy,


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    kdawg

     

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (12:02 am)

    JOE D.: I also drove a Volt right afterward it was a nice car but wasn’t as practical as the Cruise Diesel with my family of 5 and my wife’s 85 mile round trip to work.

    C-max Energi?


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    rdunniii

     

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (2:19 am)

    Kent: I got my solar panels in 2005 and at that time, PG&E had a TOU rate plan called E6.On this plan, peak times are May-Oct, M-F, noon to 6PM.PG&E discontinued the E6 and has a new E9 rate plan, which has 5-6 different tiers of rates.I’m grandfathered in to the E6 and I wouldn’t want to even deal with the E9.As far as I know, we are not required to use the TOU plans.

    There is a drop dead date for both the E6 and E9 rates now that the EV rates have been published. I think it is currently 31 Dec 2014. But you know how that goes in CA. Being tierless TOU it is a double edged sword.


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    Darius

     

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (2:21 am)

    kdawg,

    I bet hyperloop will be based on this principle:

    http://www.et3.com


  91. 91
    Dave G

     

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (5:15 am)

    George S. Bower: Volt needs a little more AER, not a trick RE.

    Aren’t the two related? Lower the weight of the range extender, and you have more all-electric range.


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    Dave G

     

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (5:43 am)

    JOE D.: I also drove a Volt right afterward it was a nice car but wasn’t as practical as the Cruise Diesel with my family of 5 and my wife’s 85 mile round trip to work.

    The Volt uses the least amount of fuel for an 85-mile trip.
    Untitled-1_zps6adb55cb.jpg

    And if your wife could plug-in at work, she would use almost no gas at all.

    As for a family of 5, I’m still waiting for the Volt MPV5:
    chevyvoltmpv5exterior01.jpg


  93. 93
    Raymondjram

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (10:20 am)

    James,

    Thank you for the quote.

    Since I have no Volt (not my fault) or any electric vehicle, I hope when gasoline goes even higher or runs out, and if I had a Diesel powered vehicle, I can scrounge for free cooking oil, process it, and be on the road again, while others will be walking. It is a very possible scenario.

    I want a EV, but GM will not sell them here!

    Raymond


  94. 94
    Raymondjram

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (10:33 am)

    JOE D.:
    I drove a Cruise Diesel last week (The car was fantastic!). I asked the salesman if the car used a fuel additive to reduce the exhaust emissions. His reply was I don’t know. I decided to find out for myself and searched the car. Under the trunk mat there it was “Add GM exhaust fluid”. My question was how much does that cost and how often do you need to add the exhaust fluid? The answer was again I don’t know it’s a brand new car. I’m keeping the car on my list. I also drove a Volt right afterward it was a nice car but wasn’t as practical as the Cruise Diesel with my family of 5 and my wife’s 85 mile round trip to work.
    Blind Guy,

    Try to get a copy of the Owner Manual for that Diesel Cruze. It will have all the needed routine maintenance explained. I do this for every vehicle I am interested in before deciding which to buy, because I can see its future, it isn’t expensive (sometime it is free), and I know if it is worth it. I did this for both the Volt and Spark EV, and definitely the Spark is the easiest vehicle to maintain!

    Raymond


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    Jackson

     

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (11:29 am)

    George S. Bower: so what makes you guys think GM will buy Via??
    Just because BOB has something to do with it?
    I doubt it.

    A former GM executive is modding GM vehicles according to the EREV principle he championed at GM. BOB is taking the risk that GM won’t (or can’t afford) in order to prove a market for the full-size EREV that businesses and well-heeled individual buyers say they want. I can just hear the back-channel conversation: “If you can pull this off, we’ll offer VIA as an option under GMC (high-end working vehicles already). If that works out, we’ll pay generously for your company.” If VIA fails, GM is out nothing.

    There is at least an implicit relationship with GM, with perhaps some Voltec engineering support (above or below the table). I used the word “suspicion” because it is all, well, suspicious (though admittedly nothing more).

    If it were Colonel Mustard modding Fords, you you wouldn’t be able say any of this: so yes, BOB is a big piece of the puzzle, though not the only one.


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    Jackson

     

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (11:34 am)

    Last (perhaps) comment on an old thread, so I’ll go ahead:

    Blue Plus Vehicle’s owners manual:

    “Do not pee into urea tank. It’s not that kind of urea.”

    :-P


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    awesome

     

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    Jul 23rd, 2013 (6:35 am)

    If you want to obtain a good deal from this paragraph then you have to apply such strategies to your won website.