Jul 12

Review: 2013 Ford C-Max Energi

 

By Larry E. Hall
 

As part of its commitment to sell a broader selection of fuel-saving hybrid and electric-powered vehicles, Ford launched the 2013 no-plug C-Max Hybrid and plug-in C-Max Energi hybrid.

The C-Max is an American version of the European five-passenger C-Max that shares its underlying global C platform and many key components with the 2012 Ford Focus.

“C” refers to an international size class, which in the U.S. falls into the compact class. In Europe, the C-Max is called a multipurpose vehicle (MPV), while most Americans will dub it a hatchback.

 

Even though the Toyota Prius may be the undisputed benchmark of hybrid vehicles, Ford believes the C-Max near twins can chip away at Toyota’s market dominance of hybrid cars. And part of their strategy takes a page out of the Prius’ playbook — design.

“This is our Prius fighter,” said Ford’s then head of global marketing, Jim Farley, during a press announcement prior to their launch. “We did a lot of research that suggested having a distinctive shape that is easily recognizable not only helps Toyota sell more Prius hybrids but gives an image benefit to the rest of its lineup.”

The C-Max Energi began with a slow roll out to dealers, but the pace has picked up recently. “We have more than 700 dealers EV certified nationwide, and we are working quickly to have 900 certified by the end of the summer,” said Amanda Zusman, Ford electrified communications coordinator  “We now have EV certified dealers in all 50 states, so Energi products are now sold nationwide.”

Third Generation Hybrid System

 
C-Max Energi and the less-electrified C-Max Hybrid are the first Ford models to employ the third-generation version of Ford’s hybrid system. They also mark Ford’s first integration of lithium-ion battery technology in a hybrid.

Both C-Max models use a lean-burning Atkinson-cycle 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine, scaled down from the 2.5-liter version in the Fusion Hybrid. Without delving into details, an Atkinson-cycle engine gives up a little power output in exchange for improved fuel efficiency and reduced emissions.

Ford rates the four’s output at 141 horsepower and 129 pounds-feet of torque.

2013 Ford-C Max Energi Engine
 

The engine shares motivational tasks with a 118 horsepower AC electric traction motor that generates 177 pounds-feet of torque. When working together, the two power sources deliver 188 system horsepower and an estimated 200 pounds-feet of torque. (Ford doesn’t publish combined torque numbers.)

Ford’s hybrid system is a powersplit architecture design. In a powersplit hybrid, the gasoline engine and electric motor can work together in blended mode or individually to maximize efficiency.

The engine also can operate independently of vehicle speed, providing power to the wheels or charging the batteries via regenerative braking as needed.

The motor alone can deliver enough power to the wheels to whisk the C-Max to a speed of 85 mph, and can work with the engine at higher speeds.

A planetary gear set transmits power output of the engine, motor or the combination of both to an electronically controlled continuously variable transmission (eCVT) that directs the power to the front wheels.

An eCVT is essentially an automatic that replaces a finite set of gears with a planetary gearset. The intent is continuously changing gear ratios that more precisely match engine output with acceleration and fuel economy.

The C-Max Energi exchanges the standard hybrid’s 1.4-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion traction battery pack with a much larger, 7.6-kwh battery in the cargo area.

2013 Ford C-Max Energi Charging
 

Energi’s lithium-ion batteries are engineered for recharging and extended discharge during all-electric mode, whereas the C-Max Hybrid batteries are designed for shorter surges of electrons.

Using a standard 120-volt outlet, recharging a depleted battery takes seven hours. C-Max Energi buyers would be well served to have a 240-volt recharging unit installed which reduces recharging time to three hours.

There are three selectable modes that allow drivers a choice of when and where to use electric power via a button on the center console. In EV Auto, the default mode, the Energi operates as a pure EV unless more power is requested by the driver. EV Now is all-electric driving until the battery is depleted, then automatically reverts to hybrid mode. EV Later operates as a hybrid and reserves battery-pack for later use.

There’s also an EV+ feature that can keep the vehicle in electric-only mode for longer durations once it learns a driver’s frequent destinations.

Styling

 

C-Max styling is heavily influenced by the Iosis MAX concept unveiled at the 2009 Geneva Motor Show.  The design was created by Ford’s European design group and follows the company’s “kinetic” styling themes.

Up front, a large, lower, inverted trapezoid grille and small upper grille are becoming signature design elements of Ford cars. Long flowing headlights establish an athletic look and the short, sculpted hood leads into a sharply raked windshield.

Outer corners of the bumper boast eye-catching fog lights that direct the eye to prominent front wheel arches. Standard 17-inch aluminum wheels and 50-series tires do an effective job of filling the fenders.

2013 Ford C-Max Energi Front Right
 

The profile of the steeply raked windshield continues with a sweeping, coupe-like roofline that ends with a strong-rising C-pillar, similar to the smaller Fiesta. The shape is not only striking, but plays a major role in the C-Max’s aerodynamic drag coefficient of just .30.

At the business end are an upright tailgate and taillight shapes that mimic the headlights.

The only attribute that distinguishes the Energi from its sibling is the round “filler door” on the left front fender. A four-element LED light ring surrounds the perimeter of the port, lighting up in segments as a visual cue to let the driver know the battery’s charge status upon parking the vehicle and plugging it in.

The Inside Story

 
Like the Focus, the same Ford kinetic design shapes the distinctive features and surfaces of the Energi’s dashboard, reflecting the modern character of the exterior. Center console controls are inspired by modern mobile phones, and it’s clear the design is targeted at a generation that’s grown up with all manner of mobile infotainment devices.

Thanks to its 5.3-foot-tall height, the cabin has a spacious feel. With a full 41 inches of front-seat headroom and the slightly less 39.4 inches in the rear, it’s roomy even for 6-footers.

2013 Ford C-Max Energi Interior
 

Ford has done a commendable job with the C-Max Energi’s interior. The mostly leather cabin with its metal accents give it an upscale ambience. The touch points are soft and every inch of the cabin uses high-quality materials.

Front seats are firm yet comfortable and are infinitely adjustable. Rear seating is more roomy than most cars of this size, accommodating three average-sized adults.

There are some quibbles, however. For instance, when placed in Park, the shifter completely conceals several function switches, including the fuel-door release. Also, climate-control knobs are so small they are difficult to grip.

A more noteworthy downside is the Energi’s cargo space. The battery pack’s placement beneath the floor of the cargo area reduces capacity to 19.2 cubic feet behind the rear seats compared to the hybrid model’s 24.5 cu. ft. Worse, when the rear seats are folded, exposed is the battery pack’s intrusion that creates a shelf behind the rear seats that is a about seven inches higher than the load floor.

2013 Ford C-Max Energi Seating
 

The Energi is available in just one well-equipped trim level that’s comparable to the C-Max Hybrid’s SEL trim. Standard are leather-trimmed seats with heated front seats, dual-zone climate control, hands-free calling system, wireless Bluetooth audio for access to music on a smartphone, and three years of free, personalized news, sports and business news.

Also standard is Ford’s MyFord Touch system with SYNC voice commands. This system combines climate, entertainment, telephone and navigation function into an integrated system that responds to voice commands.

Available options include navigation with SYNC, a Sony audio system, a hands-free power lift gate and a hands-free self-parking system.

Too Much Information?

 
Data geeks will do flips over the information that can be gleaned from a variety of menus. To learn what’s available, the Reader’s Digest-size owner’s manual devotes 23 pages to information displays.

Steering wheel controls allow selecting information from either right or left hand displays on the instrument cluster. Right side is primarily infotainment features while the left screen is a virtual maze of info with categories named Inform, Enlighten, Engage and Empower.

2013 Ford C-Max Energi Information Display
 

In addition to instant miles per gallon, the left screen can display instant MPGe, miles traveled on electric power alone, total gallons of gasoline used and total kilowatts of electricity used, plus a list way too long to include.

My favorite feature is the clever Brake Coach, for which Ford has filed patents for the algorithm and display function. It coaches the driver in a manner that maximizes the energy returned to the battery pack through regenerative braking – brake early and lightly.

Rounding out the high-tech goodies is the MyFord Mobile app, which can keep owners connected to their Energi. Free for five years, the app can locate charging stations, show the battery pack’s state of charge, preset charging times for off-peak utility hours and a host of other functions. These can all be done via a smart phone or laptop.

On the Road

 

As a plug-in hybrid, the C-Max Energi is essentially two cars in one – a battery electric vehicle and a hybrid vehicle.

Driving in EV mode, the Energi performs quite well. Thanks to the instant-on torque from the electric motor, acceleration can be rather brisk when needed, but that action can devour electrons rapidly.

It cruises city streets in quiet fashion and easily keeps up with the flow of traffic. Considering the 38-psi inflation pressures for the Michelin Energy Saver P225/50R-17 tires, the ride is quite smooth.

2013 Ford C-Max Energi Driving
 

Ford engineers did a remarkable job of eliminating the flutter-rumble that many hybrids make when transitioning from electric mode to gas engine and vice versa. There is no vibration or shimmying when the gas engine kicks in to help the electric motor.

When the battery charge depleted, the hybrid powertrain delivered more than sufficient acceleration to give it enough oomph to quickly merge onto freeways, and passing on two-lane highways was accomplished with ease.

In terms of handling, the Energi was more than competent and was devoid of vices and totally predictable. It cornered well and the electric power steering had good on-center feel and offered decent driver feedback. The all-independent suspension provides a compliant feel that makes it ideal for long trips and daily commuting.

Fuel Economy

 
As noted in our review of the standard C-Max Hybrid, http://www.hybridcars.com/2013-ford-c-max-hybrid-review-video/

there are several class action suits against Ford claiming that owners can’t come close to the 47 mpg EPA rating for city, highway and combined driving.

Since the Energi has the same powertrain and the larger battery boosts weight by 259 pounds, we were curious if Energi’s EPA estimate of 44 mpg city, 41 mpg highway, 43 mpg combined and 100 mpg equivalent (the last number based on it being driven under electric power) was attainable.

2013 Ford C-Max Energi Badge
 

During our week with the Energi we clocked 608 miles, 540 of which were tallied on a round trip from Olympia, Washington to Sun River, Oregon. That route included about 220 miles of Interstate with the balance mostly two lane highways including the elevation climb on Mt. Hood Highway.

After our week of testing, the fuel economy in the C-Max Energi came to 45.3 mpg, exceeding the EPA estimate by 2.3 mpg (ed. note: full disclosure, Larry also managed on his first try to get 58 mpg from a 2012 Camry Hybrid, beating its EPA estimate by 17 miles. He is good at maximizing efficiency short of being a take-no-prisoners hypermiler).

As for electric drive range, with a fully charged battery we drove the city streets of Olympia for 19.3 miles before the juice ran out. I think we could have made the Ford claimed 21 mile mark had it not been for a nearly two-mile unavoidable steep hill. The readout display indicated 108.4 MPGe, again better than the EPA estimate.

Competitors

 

The C-Max Energi’s direct competitors are the Toyota Prius Liftback Plug-in and Chevrolet Volt.

While the C-Max and Prius function similarly, the Energi has some advantages. For example, the Energi’s battery is larger than the Prius Plug-in’s 4.4 kwh battery, giving Ford the edge of 21 miles versus 15 miles (11 miles according to the EPA) of electric driving range.

Also, the C-Max’s overall system output of 188 horsepower versus the Prius’ 134 horsepower gives C-Max drivers more speed and better drivability.

However, while the Energi can travel farther on electric power, when both are on gasoline power, the Prius delivers better fuel economy with an EPA estimate of 51 city/49 highway and 50 mpg combined versus the Energi’s 44/41/43 mpg.

Standing taller than the Prius, the Energi offers more front and rear headroom. But the Prius’ longer wheelbase provides more front seat legroom. In what could be a deal breaker for some, the Energi’s 19.2 cubic feet of cargo room behind the second-row seats is overshadowed by the Prius Plug-in’s 21.6 cubic feet.

Comparing prices, the base Prius Plug-in starts at $32,795 (including destination charges), nearly $1,000 less than the C-Max Energi before tax credits, and includes features like a standard navigation system.

When federal tax credits are plugged in (pun intended), the Energi’s $3,750 credit versus the Prius’ $2,500 gives the C-Max a $300 edge. If you want all the bells and whistles, the Prius Plug-in Advanced model offers features not found on the Energi like radar-based cruise control, head-up display and adaptive headlamps and can top $40,000.

While the Chevrolet Volt plugs in, its drivetrain is different from the C-Max Energi in that it employs a gasoline engine that powers an electric generator, and the engine only occasionally sends power to the wheels.

The most obvious difference is the Energi seats five to the Volt’s four. And while the Energi offers more head- and legroom than the Volt, the Volt’s cargo space can expand to around 30 usable cubic feet when rear seats are folded with a nearly flat load floor.

2013 Ford C-Max Energi Cargo Area
 

Energi trounces the Volt’s 35 mpg city/40 highway/ 37 combined gasoline fuel economy but the Volt can travel 38 miles on electric juice compared to the Energi’s 21 miles. The Energi also posts a 100 MPGe compared to the Volt’s 98 MPGe.

Volt’s base price is $39,995 and qualifies for a federal tax credit of $7,500, lowering the price down to $32,495. That’s $2,200 more than the Energi after the tax credit, but if your round trip commute is in the 35 to 40 mile range, that difference could be offset with the savings in gas-free commuting.

Choosing between these three plug-in cars will require determining what your needs are and how a car fits into your daily life.

Toyota’s Prius Plug-in has the least amount of electric-only driving range but the best gasoline fuel economy. The Chevrolet Volt offers the most EV range of the three and is a must drive if you’re considering a plug-in.

The Ford C-Max Energi is an excellent green-oriented family hauler and commuter vehicle. And, if your commute is around 40 miles and you can plug-in at work, it’s a very pleasing electric car.

This entry was posted on Friday, July 12th, 2013 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 106


  1. 1
    Dave G

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (6:20 am)

    21 miles of range is nowhere near enough for me. Not worth the trouble of plugging in.


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    Gsned57

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (6:57 am)

    21 miles would take care of my commute and with 3 kids the volt unfortunately is out for me. If I had to replace my 05 Prius today it would be a choice of leaf vs energi. If money were no object the model s would win out hands down. I’ve been in love with the volt for 6 years now but I couldn’t justify the cost to only carry me around. Gonna be a few years before I need a new car but loving that I have options now. I just hope someone decides to come out with a plugin minivan. That would be game over sold for me time to park the Prius under a tree during a huricane sold.

    Lyle if you still come read your old project hake is life with your c max after a year?


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    Mark

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (7:58 am)

    A good review! But the volt is still king in my books, thanks to range, handling and feature set. The more competition the better, Keep the General on his toes!


  4. 4
    rudiger

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:06 am)

    Gsned57:
    21 miles would take care of my commute and with 3 kids the volt unfortunately is out for me. If I had to replace my 05 Prius today it would be a choice of leaf vs energi. If money were no object the model s would win out hands down. I’ve been in love with the volt for 6 years now but I couldn’t justify the cost to only carry me around.Gonna be a few years before I need a new car but loving that I have options now. I just hope someone decides to come out with a plugin minivan. That would be game over sold for me time to park the Prius under a tree during a huricane sold.

    Yeah, I just don’t understand why, after all these years, there’s still no hybrid minivan (let alone plug-in). It would seem to be a perfect fit and could potentially revitalize the downward sales trajectory of what was once the fastest growing market segment until it was usurped by the much less practical (but more ‘sporty’) SUV.


  5. 5
    kdawg

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:22 am)

    Gsned57:
    21 miles would take care of my commute and with 3 kids the volt unfortunately is out for me. If I had to replace my 05 Prius today it would be a choice of leaf vs energi. If money were no object the model s would win out hands down. I’ve been in love with the volt for 6 years now but I couldn’t justify the cost to only carry me around.Gonna be a few years before I need a new car but loving that I have options now. I just hope someone decides to come out with a plugin minivan. That would be game over sold for me time to park the Prius under a tree during a huricane sold.

    Lyle if you still come read your old project hake is life with your c max after a year?

    What about the Fusion Energi? It’s not too much more and has more room. Also, when I sat in both at the Detroit Auto Show, it was night & day between the C-Max and the Fusion. Fusion felt luxurious where the C-Max felt chincy.

    Funny you mention an electric mini-van. One of my friends was picking my brain about EV’s as he is looking for an electric mini-van. Basically there’s not much out there. You have the Nissan EV200, which is only in fleet testing. And you have the Model X coming, which will be expensive. Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV may work.


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    Jackson

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:28 am)

    Good. Let Ford concern itself with the “Prius Fighter” as GM continues it’s Prius leapfrogging.


  7. 7
    BAZINGA

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:37 am)

    I do like the interior, but I don’t need to carry more than 4 pax so that’s not important to me, range, performance and driving dynamics matter most to me.

    Notice how they attempt to compare the three vehicles, yet never discuss “performance”. Speaks volumes in my mind. The Prius and Ford are barely grocery getter’s w/o any decent driving dynamics.

    And 21 miles is under my minimum needs. My daily commute to/from work is 24 miles. Even on the coldest days of winter I get 34/35 EV miles with our Volt. That’s the sweet spot for me and I’d imagine the vast majority of American’s. GM nailed the Volt’s range.


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    volt11

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:45 am)

    Personally, I just haven’t been digging the Ford “kinetic” styling themes seen in the Focus, C-Max, and Escape, both inside and out. And the C-Max is the worst looking of the bunch. That’s a very flattering rear angle photo above, because coming up from behind it on the road it just looks awkward to me. Up front, the upper and lower grilles look like two different designers created them and made by two different suppliers. I really can’t imagine what they were thinking. As to the interiors, these cars looks like a hodgepodge of angles more befitting of the Flintstones than the Jetsons, worst of all in the new Fusion.

    All that said, it’s a nice package but, like the Prius, I don’t think it sells on styling.


  9. 9
    Allen Cohen

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:47 am)

    The article says pretty much our experience with 9800 miles on the FORD CMAX ENERGI. Handling has been a great experience compared to our previous MPV’s (HONDA CRV, Buick Rendezvous). The ride is quiet even in gasoline mode (except for the occasional rapid acceleration). Tracking is excellent and the European design is built into the handling.

    As for energy use, the report says we have used electricity 40% and gasoline 60%. Regenerative capture is insignificant. The bottom line 48.8 MPG (assuming the electric component is included) so the standard FORD CMAX hybrid might NEVER get the listed economy. The change from the Buick Rendezvous has resulted in a 2/3 reduction in gasoline usage, however.

    As for my VOLT, I have recently tried to run it without using gasoline. It now says greater than 250 MPGe!

    Next the SOLAR panels.


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    joe

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:50 am)

    Mark,

    I also think the Volt is king, but why isn’t the media not acknowledging that fact? GM is still having problems marketing their products. GM should have more aggressive ads like Fords has. Ford has Ecoboost, something they didn’t even invent. In case you don’t know, Eocoboost is an engine with direct injection/turbo. VW was first with this tech over a decade ago and then GM soon followed. Ford came with that tech over a decade later, and gave it a name of “Ecoboost” and now laughing all the way to the bank.


  11. 11
    kdawg

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:52 am)

    volt11,

    I’m not a fan of the looks of the C-Max, but the Fusion isn’t bad to me.

    ford-fusion-energi-plug-in-01.jpg.400x300_q85_crop-smart.jpg


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    Jackson

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:54 am)

    Actually, is there any such thing as enough electric range? Kind of like ‘enough money’, LOL.

    Good thing there are so many choices, and soon there will be many more.


  13. 13
    Jackson

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (10:09 am)

    volt11

    All that said, it’s a nice package but, like the Prius, I don’t think it sells on styling.

    Styling doesn’t have to be odd in order to be distinctive. One only needs to compare Volt sales with those of the many EVs that look like they were beaten with the ugly stick. Our Volt seems able to attract plenty of attention in a nice-looking package.


  14. 14
    George S. Bower

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (10:41 am)

    Allen Cohen:

    As for energy use, the report says we have used electricity 40% and gasoline 60%.Regenerative capture is insignificant.The bottom line 48.8 MPG (assuming the electric component is included)

    Allen,
    Thx for being truthfull,
    but for me
    These are the kind of numbers that make me not so thrilled w/ the Energi. I mean you are going to all the trouble of charging the thing and you’re getting a little less MPG than a regular Prius.


  15. 15
    George S. Bower

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (10:44 am)

    Jackson:
    Actually, is there any such thing as enough electric range?

    No there isn’t.
    I don’t think I could go to something like the Energi.
    I want MORE EV range not less


  16. 16
    Kent

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (10:49 am)

    The Volt set the range standard for me at 40 miles. I won’t consider anything less…not even the ELR. That being said, I like Ford’s. Based on my own personal experiences, I’ve had better experiences with Ford’s than GM cars. If Ford can get me a C-Max (preferably a Fusion) with 40 miles or better EV range, I’d definitely buy one if it was priced comparatively to a Volt.


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    jdan

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:15 am)

    My wife loves my Volt, but we could use more seating. So I showed her the C-Max Energi and the Fusion. She liked the look of the Fusion and thought she might like to get that next. We will be in the market for new vehicles next year. I’m going to first see if I can extend my Volt lease, otherwise I will have to review what is available then. If we have a Volt and a Fusion, we will likely almost never buy gas again! Neither of us put very many miles on our vehicles (<10,000/yr). I do hope someone (GM are you listening?) comes out with a Voltech type MPV or minivan that is reusable on cost. The Energi is close but a bit small.

    Here's to hoping


  18. 18
    kdawg

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:26 am)

    jdan,

    Being a 2 car home, have you considered a BEV, like the Focus EV?


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    kdawg

     

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:28 am)

    Allen Cohen,

    Can you fit 2 Adults, 2 kids, and luggage for 4 in your C-Max? I can look at pictures all day, but would rather hear from someone with real-world experience.


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    Noel Park

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:30 am)

    Jackson:
    Good. Let Ford concern itself with the “Prius Fighter” as GM continues it’s Prius leapfrogging.

    #6

    I’m with you. +1


  21. 21
    kdawg

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:31 am)

    George S. Bower: Allen,
    Thx for being truthfull,
    but for me
    These are the kind of numbers that make me not so thrilled w/ the Energi. I mean you are going to all the trouble of charging the thing and you’re getting a little less MPG than a regular Prius.

    I think the percentages comes down to daily driving. If you have a 10 mile commute, it may allow you to drive gas free. This isn’t the norm, but may work for a few.

    Personally, if I owned 2 cars, one would be a PHEV and one would be a BEV. I would use the BEV for my daily commuter.


  22. 22
    Jackson

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:41 am)

    (As I’ve mentioned here before), GM could combine the Volt’s existing drive train in a larger vehicle with the drive from the Spark running the rear wheels for extra power (and very little new engineering needed). Could GM leapfrog Prius V and the Ford in one go?)

    Of course it would need a larger pack and two drive trains, so it would price itself out of the segment (but would be correspondingly more useful for many).

    Oh, and you’d get that full-time AWD that many of you want as a bonus).


  23. 23
    CaptJackSparrow

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:47 am)

    So here’s what we have available…

    ~10-12 AER PHEV – PIP (Hatchback)
    ~15 AER – PHEV Accord (Sedan)
    ~21 AER PHEV Energi [C-Max or Fusion] (Hatchback/Sedan)
    ~????
    ~38-41 AER PHEV – Volt (Hatchback)

    Anything above 41 are BEV’s.
    Notice the gap? Who’s going to fill that gap and with what type of car?

    The gap will be filled in, in Jan 2014 with the PHEV Mitsubishi Outlander SUV.
    And we all know we Americans Love our SUV’s!


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    volt11

     

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:54 am)

    kdawg:
    volt11,

    I’m not a fan of the looks of the C-Max, but the Fusion isn’t bad to me.

    100% agree. I don’t especially like its interior, but the outside is quite handsome. It seems most people and journalists thinks it’s super gorgeous on the outside and a class standout, and I wouldn’t go that far.

    If Ford put their plug-in powertrain in the Lincoln MKZ (which has a much nicer interior than Fusion), and maybe altered the grille for the better, it would be a definite test drive as a replacement for my Volt in December. It’s still possible they will do that for 2014. And like everyone else, I’m anxious to see once and for all if my Volt choice will be essentially the same car I’m driving now.


  25. 25
    pjkPA

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (11:55 am)

    It’s costing me $4 per week to drive my Volt….
    I’ve used 5.3 gallons in 7 months close to 5,000 miles…
    And no gas stations … no oil changes.
    This technology isn’t close for me…. 10 miles elec doesn’t make it.


  26. 26
    Noel Park

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (12:01 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: And we all know we Americans Love our SUV’s!

    #23

    Well I love my ’59 Suburban airport limo which I drive about 6 times a year to car shows and the vintage races, LOL. But it’s my LAST SUV. I drive my Volt every day.

    I think it was yesterday that somebody suggested the “Volt C”. That’s what I would like to see. Smaller, cheaper, and with 50+ AER. Although, in all honesty, it doesn’t seem to be working out all that well for Tojo.


  27. 27
    Noel Park

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (12:02 pm)

    pjkPA: This technology isn’t close for me…. 10 miles elec doesn’t make it.

    #25

    Amen. 1


  28. 28
    Kent

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (12:15 pm)

    Just a thought……what would it take for GM to remove the ICE from the Volt, expand the battery capacity and make it a BEV? I’m not talking about eliminating the ICE completely, but what if there were two models of Volts, one with an ICE and one that’s only a BEV?


  29. 29
    Jackson

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (12:56 pm)

    Kent,

    This has been suggested here since before the 2011 release. The consensus has been that this would be a less effective (and certainly less elegant) solution than a purpose-built BEV. Also, wouldn’t the Volt transmission need to be heavily re-engineered, since there would no longer be any reason for two motors and a power split?

    The Spark power train suggests a step in that direction, but might not carry the extra weight of a Volt-BEV by itself. Perhaps a Spark motor for each pair of wheels, as I suggested above, but that might make for an expensive little BEV. Maybe this is what the Caddilac BEV (as an ELR) could be. It would have smokin’ performance, for sure.


  30. 30
    kdawg

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (1:15 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: Anything above 41 are BEV’s.
    Notice the gap? Who’s going to fill that gap and with what type of car?

    Don’t forget the BMW i3. 90miles AER + range extender.


  31. 31
    kdawg

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (1:21 pm)

    Kent: Just a thought……what would it take for GM to remove the ICE from the Volt, expand the battery capacity and make it a BEV? I’m not talking about eliminating the ICE completely, but what if there were two models of Volts, one with an ICE and one that’s only a BEV?

    Supposedly GM is working on a purpose built EV that will either have a 100 mile range or a 200 mile range. (hopefully its 200, or both as an option)


  32. 32
    qwerty

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (1:35 pm)

    Noel Park: I think it was yesterday that somebody suggested the “Volt C”. That’s what I would like to see. Smaller, cheaper, and with 50+ AER.

    A Voltec GM Terrain or Voltec Colorado crew cab!

    C’mon GM!!!


  33. 33
    Charlie H

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (1:43 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  34. 34
    Raymondjram

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (1:48 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow:
    So here’s what we have available…

    ~10-12 AER PHEV – PIP (Hatchback)
    ~15 AER – PHEV Accord (Sedan)
    ~21 AER PHEV Energi [C-Max or Fusion] (Hatchback/Sedan)
    ~????
    ~38-41 AER PHEV – Volt (Hatchback)

    Anything above 41 are BEV’s.
    Notice the gap? Who’s going to fill that gap and with what type of car?

    The gap will be filled in, in Jan 2014 with the PHEV Mitsubishi Outlander SUV.
    And we all know we Americans Love our SUV’s!

    Not all Americans! I have a Equinox which is a smaller SUV, called a CUV. It is the best all-around with five seats (the rear seat is big with huge legroom), and plenty of cargo space. I carried a ten-foot ladder INSIDE and can carry 8 ft x 4 ft wood panels also inside. The underside can fit a flat battery easily (the interior floor is flat).

    So if GM produced the EREV Equinox, it will be its best seller!

    And for my most useful vehicle, the Chevy Spark EV can fulfill 95% of my needs. The Equinox fulfills my other 5%.

    BTW, don’t plan to buy that mitshubishi stuff and betray the American economy!

    Raymond


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    Raymondjram

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (1:52 pm)

    kdawg:
    volt11,

    I’m not a fan of the looks of the C-Max, but the Fusion isn’t bad to me.

    I posted before that the ONLY hybrid that I have test driven twice, and can buy right now is the Ford Fusion Hybrid. It is much better inside than any of the others (go and visit a Ford dealer to see it). The local Ford dealer will have the Fusion Energi by September. It could be my next EV!

    As of GM: no Volt or Spark EV yet!

    Raymond


  36. 36
    CaptJackSparrow

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (2:11 pm)

    Raymondjram: BTW, don’t plan to buy that mitshubishi stuff and betray the American economy!

    lol
    I was just pointing out the missed opportunity for the Big 3.
    GM shudda put Voltec in the good ol Saturn Vue, which I think is the Saturn version of the Equinox?!?!?!….maybe?

    /just a SWAG. 😛


  37. 37
    TedinFortMyers

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (2:14 pm)

    You asked if there is ever enough range and the answer is 85Kwh/300miles and coast to coast superchargers. 150 miles of range in 20 minutes. Yes that would be enough range and it might be my next car after the Volt.

    Take Care, TED


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    ozzy c

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (2:15 pm)

    Wow! Do you work for Ford. What a slanted review. More like Ford talking points and a little opinion splashed on top! lol
    I smell marketing!!


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    Jul 12th, 2013 (2:22 pm)

    OT, but did anybody notice that another 787 caught fire sitting on the ground at London Heathrow?

    Ethiopian Airlines, LOL. No danger of me ever getting on one of those. But still, I wonder if it was another battery failure?


  40. 40
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    Jul 12th, 2013 (2:26 pm)

    qwerty: Voltec Colorado crew cab!

    #32

    Yeah, I could get pretty interested in that. +1

    CaptJack has only been suggesting that for about 3 years. Actually, there’s supposed to be a Colorado replacement in the works fairly soon, so maybe that would be the time. It would be really handy for my small business. And our S10 is creeping up on 300K miles, so it can’t keep running forever. Although based on it’s present performance maybe it will. What a tough little truck!


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    Sean

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (2:35 pm)

    How about a Suburban EREV with either ethanol, bio diesel, or a natural gas tank and an electric motor that gives you in between 250-300 miles of AER.

    Trust me if there was a version of the Suburban on the road with these features both the fans and the general public would be very happy and no worries or fusses and concerns of range anxiety.

    The Future Is Electric!


  42. 42
    George S. Bower

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (2:48 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: lol

    GM shudda put Voltec in the good ol Saturn Vue, which I think is the Saturn version of the Equinox?!?!?!….maybe?

    /just a SWAG.

    That’s interesting if true.
    Remember when GM was going to put the little 2 mode into the Saturn? They were also going to offer a plug in version:

    Ladjiak followed up GM Chairman Rick Wagoner’s early morning speech to open the Los Angeles Auto Show in which he announced that GM will expand its hybrid technology to include a front-wheel-drive 2-mode hybrid and a plug-in version of the 2-mode system. Both will debut on the Saturn Vue Green Line.

    http://green.autoblog.com/2006/11/29/la-auto-show-saturn-vue-green-line-will-offer-2-mode-and-plug-i/

    and of course y’all know that the Volt’s transmission is a slight tweek to that 2 mode.


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    Jul 12th, 2013 (2:59 pm)

    Noel Park:
    OT, but did anybody notice that another 787 caught fire sitting on the ground at London Heathrow?

    Ethiopian Airlines, LOL.No danger of me ever getting on one of those.But still, I wonder if it was another battery failure?

    Thx Noel.
    Prelim reports are outside top of airplane (not where batts are located) so hopefully it’s not another Li bat fire. Also this airline is flying w/ the fix (as I guess all are).

    Location of the fire almost sounds like the APU inlet area. We (Honeywell) don’t have the APU on that plane.


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    Raymondjram

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (3:24 pm)

    ozzy c:
    Wow! Do you work for Ford. What a slanted review. More like Ford talking points and a little opinion splashed on top! lol
    I smell marketing!!

    Most members here are interested in other EVs, not just the Chevy Volt. Last week it was the Nissan Leaf, and this past week it was the BMW offering. We are open to read and learn about all the vehicles in the EV market. And if there were no Volts for sale, the Ford hybrids are the next best American hybrid and plug-in vehicles you can buy now.

    Raymond


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    Jul 12th, 2013 (3:58 pm)

    TedinFortMyers,

    Maybe you’re right … if you can afford and want to spend that much.


  46. 46
    kdawg

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (4:11 pm)

    Charlie H: The leapfrogging that counts are sales numbers and profits.

    You forgot to finish your sentence. “to you”
    These are what count… “to you”

    And this is until the Volt & Voltec variants sell more, or boasts bigger profits, then something else will count more.

    We (not you) are talking about the technology and engineering here. This is what has leapfrogged the competition. Thus all the pseudo copy cats that came forth after the Volt. However the competitors still have not created something comparable to a Volt. I think the BMW i3 will be the closest competitor regarding specs (not looks or price).

    PS: I don’t feel like having the sales of the Volt vs sales of the “p-word” in their first 3 years debate again. So don’t bother.


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    Jackson

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (4:11 pm)

    Charlie H,

    So you’ll be fine with Ford outselling Toyota by a sizable margin. Good!


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    steve

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (4:11 pm)

    One problem. How does a set of planetary gears become a continuously variable transmission? Heck, planetary gears themselves are commonplace is automatic transmissions. Something is not right there.


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    steve

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (4:35 pm)

    Sean:
    How about a Suburban EREV with either ethanol, bio diesel, or a natural gas tank and an electric motor that gives you in between 250-300 miles of AER.

    Trust me if there was a version of the Suburban on the road with these features both the fans and the general public would be very happy and no worries or fusses and concerns of range anxiety.

    The Future Is Electric!

    Isn’t that similar to what Via Motors is offering in the near future?


  50. 50
    kdawg

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (4:40 pm)

    OT:

    Tesla closed at ~$130/share, new all time high.

    GM also up over $36/share, about a 2 1/2 year high.

    Ford at ~$17/share is also at a 2 1/2 year high.


  51. 51
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    Jul 12th, 2013 (4:42 pm)

    Sean,

    steve: Isn’t that a Via Motors offering in the near future?

    Yep, and it can be yours for only $79,000 🙂

    https://www.viamotors.com/preorder/


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    Jul 12th, 2013 (4:50 pm)

    kdawg: Don’t forget the BMW i3.90miles AER + range extender.

    Isn’t the BMW range extender being marketed as optional and not suited for regular use? Sort of a emergency backup if you run out of charge?


  53. 53
    Noel Park

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (5:16 pm)

    kdawg: Yep, and it can be yours for only $79,000

    #51

    Cheap at half the price, LOL. Still, a 2 mode Escalade I saw had a $72K sticker……………….


  54. 54
    Blind Guy

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (5:42 pm)

    We rented a C-Max for a week and averaged 39 mpg. The C-Max was peppier than our 2010 Prius was but felt similar otherwise. We liked: the passenger space/comfort, moon roof w/sun screen, great visibility and especially the HVAC vents located on the rear of the center console, which kept rear peps comfortable without having to blow out front passengers.

    However; we gave up on the infotainment controls, surprisingly, had to lower a back seat to fit our large suitcase and no there was no spare tire either. I would hate to give-up even more cargo space for only 21 miles AER for the Energi version.

    The Volts ride feels much smoother and quieter. I will only try to buy future vehicles with at least as much AER as our Volt is getting (currently 42 miles). I honestly feel that our Volt is a great value for the price we paid (after Fed. Tax credit). Rear AC vents would be an improvement for the Volt though.


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    Mark Brooks

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (5:52 pm)

    joe,

    GM is still somewhat handicapped in its marketing by its bread and butter lineup and the dealership model. The wing nuts that thought the volt was running for political office haven’t helped either.

    The more I look at Tesla, the move I think that the Volt could solve most of its sales problems by going customer direct ( Internet + shopping mall store fronts). Stepping out in front of the GM dealership model ( not necessarily as a spin off… by say as a separate division) could connect the dots between the customer sale and the Plug-in lineup without having the custom first navigate a dealership and all the vested interest it represents.

    Over time dealerships will become more tuned to selling the volt and other plug-in vehicles but GM may not have that time….


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    Jul 12th, 2013 (5:59 pm)

    steve: Isn’t the BMW range extender being marketed as optional and not suited for regular use? Sort of a emergency backup if you run out of charge?

    http://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862808


  57. 57
    Noel Park

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (6:45 pm)

    steve: http://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862808

    #56

    Whew! You’d have to be a diehard BMW fan to plow through that, LOL. Again, I really respect the emphasis on lightweight construction, but it’s not going to make me give up my Volt any time soon. And as to the “range extender”, talk about too little too late, hahaha.


  58. 58
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    Jul 12th, 2013 (7:03 pm)

    $80,000 Is way too much but if the Suburban was priced the same as it has always been or lower at the $40,000 price range.

    I’m sure it would compete well with the Volt.

    Still in my own opinion $20,000-$25,000 is the price range where most would want to buy an EV, EREV, or PHEV.

    Also I know this vehicle only has 2WD still in my own opinion GM should turn this vehicle into an EREV.

    This vehicle is the closes I can remember that resembles that vehicle that my mom drove in Hawaii but I can’t remember what it was called but it was a Chevy.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/traverse-crossover-suv.html?price=120000&brand=chevrolet&type=suv&appState=list

    If you know what vehicle I’m talking about besides the Traverse let me know as this is the closes vehicle that resembles that vehicle we drove a few years ago on The Big Island.

    Still it would be nice to see something like this turned into an EREV or BEV.

    Though if the MPV5 concept became a reality as an EREV or BEV I’m for sure it would become a Highlander killer now if only if GM could released a car like this.

    MPV5 concept:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2GtvMuIfcU

    Highlander: Standard/Hybrid.

    Standard version

    http://www.toyota.com/highlander/#!/Welcome

    Hybrid version

    http://www.toyota.com/highlander/#!/Welcome

    So if GM could get there act together and make something similar to the Highlander and perform even better then the Highlander?

    Price it about the same as the Highlander then you’ve got yourself a Highlander killer all in one!

    Please GM get your MPV5 Concept to become a reality as an actual ERESUV!


  59. 59
    john1701a

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (7:44 pm)

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    Dave G

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (8:27 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: So here’s what we have available…
    ~10-12 AER PHEV – PIP (Hatchback)

    That is incorrect. AER stands for All-Electric Range. The EPA rates the PIP for 6 miles of all-electric range, and 11 miles of blended mode operation:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Plug-in_Hybrid
    “The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued two EV range ratings to the Prius Plug-in. A driving range for blended operation electric-gasoline of 11 mi (18 km) until the battery is depleted. The second rating is for all-electric operation with a range of 6 mi (10 km).”

    As a comparison, we could say the Volt has 60 miles of blended mode range. In other words, for the first 60 miles, the Volt gets 100 MPG.

    Bottom line: PIP AER is 6 miles, according to EPA.


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    john1701a

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:11 pm)

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  62. 62
    Eco_Turbo

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    Jul 12th, 2013 (9:35 pm)

    joe,

    Chevrolet Corvair was the first American production car to offer a turbocharged engine in the 1960s. Early 60s, 1962 I think.


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    Chops

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (2:48 am)

    George S. Bower,

    Latest I have heard is that it started in the galley with an overheated coffee pot circuit breaker. The galley is near the APU inlet (as George says) but forward of the APU itself and forward of the pressure bulkhead (obviously).


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    Koz

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (6:29 am)

    If the car is not capable of electric only max power then there is NO all electric range. The EPA, CARB, etc should see it this way. They should only provide blended MPG and gas only MPG numbers. There are too many scenarios where the gas motor will come on long before the “extra” battery capacity is depleted. These are only stronger hybrids and should be considered as such.

    High heat + mild accel= hybrid operation
    High accel = hybrid operation
    Med Hill + med accel = hybrid operation
    Steep hill + mild accel = hybrid operation
    Short highway onramp = hybrid operation

    These are not EV’s and cannot be counted on to consistently provide All Electric miles.


  65. 65
    Dave G

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (6:47 am)

    Jackson: Actually, is there any such thing as enough electric range?

    Yes, I believe so. On any given day, 80% of the population drives 40 miles or less. So for the vast majority, there’s no need to lug around a huge battery, provided you have a range extender for the occasional long trip.

    So I believe that should remain the goal, something in the neighborhood of 40 miles AER. Maybe 55 miles of AER would be good, since that would cover lead-foot drivers, cold weather, and other variables, but 100 miles of AER would be excessive.

    As a general note, I believe battery costs will improve a lot faster than battery density. So in 5-7 years, batteries will be much cheaper, but they’ll still be big and heavy.

    For weight reduction, I would say the range extender is a better place to start. Today’s car engines are all designed to connect to the wheels. Internal combustion is the best for that. But when you disconnect the engine from the wheels, an ICE is probably not the best choice. For example, Sterling engines have no valves, camshafts, timing belt, starter motor, muffler, etc. Dramatically fewer moving parts, much less noise, more efficient, and less weight. Another example, DEFCs have no moving parts at all, and are twice as efficient as an ICE. Neither of these examples would work connected to the wheels, but they are perfect for a range extender.


  66. 66
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    Jul 13th, 2013 (8:06 am)

    steve:
    One problem.How does a set of planetary gears become a continuously variable transmission?Heck, planetary gears themselves are commonplace is automatic transmissions.Something is not right there.

    It needs a real Mechanical Engineer to explain how a planetary transmission can vary its ratio, but I understand that Ford uses a second electrical motor to do just that: vary the gear ratio without using clutches or more gears. This is only needed in Ford’s hybrids because the gas engine is the main power source and has a limited power range. The Volt uses its electrical motor as its primary power source, which by design has a much better power range.

    The Ford system has three power sources: the gas engine (primary), the larger 118 HP electric motor (secondary) and a smaller electrical motor as a transmission assist for the gas engine. You can do a search and find Ford’s web site that may explain more.

    I know that if the larger electric motor was more powerful (over 118 HP) and the battery was larger, the C-max can run more on electric and have a 30 to 35 mile electric range before the gas engine starts. It could be the best competition to the Chevrolet Volt.

    But it is much better than what Toyota has for its prius cars!

    Raymond


  67. 67
    Darius

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (8:20 am)

    I think battery size reduction below 12 kWh not makes sense since more stress on battery chemistry and electric capacity limitation which will result in more often engine engagement. It would not reduce cost of drivertrain either since more stress on engine which will result in increased price of drivertrain with lower AER. The battery cycling conditions will be much harsher than Volt’s therefore more risk of battery failure with worse driving dynamics (mentioned in the article). I have big doubts whether battery cost of C-MAX is different from Volt’s with remaining packaging and inverter costs. Customers will not get full tax credit also.

    One thing within Ford C Max looks attractive – MVP5. I do not know where exactly is located battery and the shape of battery but IMHO strategically that is better engineering decision than T-shape battery.
    I predict that EREV with AER less than 30 miles has no future – too much complications with no gain.


  68. 68
    Mark Z

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (9:37 am)

    The AER gives drivers a taste of the BEV. For some, the craving for more electric range is costly and worth the price. The desire for 100% electric driving is not to be underestimated. May GM never reduce the AER of the Volt, but strive to increase it. For those who cannot afford or are limited by the practical range of a BEV, the Volt is the best choice for maximum AER without running the ICE.


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    john1701a

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (10:23 am)

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    Turbofroggy

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (10:26 am)

    Gsned57,

    The Nissan e-NV200 electric plug-in mini-van is coming to the US next year.

    http://www.env200.com/


  71. 71
    Bonaire

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (10:52 am)

    That e-NV200 is destined to become the new standard taxi in NYC.

    I hope EVs can bring manufacturing back to the USA. The number of imported plug ins is growing much faster than domestic brands. We have the engineers and factories. Why not more visible progress? If GM does not have an EREV cuv by MY2015, it will be troubling. I have gmcard bucks ready to spend.


  72. 72
    steve

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (11:00 am)

    Raymondjram: It needs a real Mechanical Engineer to explain how a planetary transmission can vary its ratio, but I understand that Ford uses a second electrical motor to do just that: vary the gear ratio without using clutches or more gears. This is only needed in Ford’s hybrids because the gas engine is the main power source and has a limited power range. The Volt uses its electrical motor as its primary power source, which by design has a much better power range.

    The Ford system has three power sources: the gas engine (primary), the larger 118 HP electric motor (secondary) and a smaller electrical motor as a transmission assist for the gas engine. You can do a search and find Ford’s web site that may explain more.

    I know that if the larger electric motor was more powerful (over 118 HP) and the battery was larger, the C-max can run more on electric and have a 30 to 35 mile electric range before the gas engine starts. It could be the best competition to the Chevrolet Volt.

    But it is much better than what Toyota has for its prius cars!

    Raymond

    It has to have a mechanism other than a planetary gear set to do this.
    Gears have teeth and the number of them on a gear is constant. Saying it has planetary gears describes nothing of the CVT function.


  73. 73
    john1701a

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (11:07 am)

    (click to show comment)


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    steve

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (11:32 am)

    Eco_Turbo:
    joe,

    Chevrolet Corvair was the first American production car to offer a turbocharged engine in the 1960s. Early 60s, 1962 I think.

    I think Olds F-85 Jetfire beat that by a little (earlier the same year).


  75. 75
    Melvin

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (11:44 am)

    Bonaire:
    That e-NV200 is destined to become the new standard taxi in NYC.

    I hope EVs can bring manufacturing back to the USA.The number of imported plug ins is growing much faster than domestic brands.We have the engineers and factories.Why not more visible progress?If GM does not have an EREV cuv by MY2015, it will be troubling. I have gmcard bucks ready to spend.

    You may have missed it – GM is selling a version of Nissan’s NV200 Van as the
    Chevrolet City Express circa 2014. I wish I could post a pic but don’t know how here anymore. The
    Chevy Nissan will be built alongside Nissan’s version in Cuernavaca, Mexico.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/05/14/nissan-nv200-puts-on-a-bowtie-as-new-chevy-city-express/

    Chevy’s NV200 will sport a Chevy grille and taillights. I suppose this arrangement
    with Nissan gives GM a small commercial van to compete in the market with Ford’s
    Euro-built Transit Connect, 2nd generation. Ford will sell the Transit Connect here
    in cargo and passenger form, although they refuse to label it a “minivan”. GM’s
    Nissan van will hit our market in fall 2014, probably as a 2015 model.

    The NY Taxi won’t be the e-version of the NV200, just a customized taxi version
    of the ICE van. Nissan is said to be testing 2 e-NV200s in NY, but the lion’s share
    of the taxi fleet will be ICE models.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  76. 76
    Noel Park

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (12:40 pm)

    john1701a: With everyone else -1 voting to make comments disappear

    #69

    That would be me, LOL -1

    There’s nothing like being the 10th “-1” and putting them “off the island”!


  77. 77
    Melvin

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (12:50 pm)

    C-Max is not a proprietary hybrid and PHEV design. It’s alarmingly high cargo
    floor in Energi form and still noticeably higher-than-Prius cargo floor in hybrid
    form indicate that a battery pack was added under the floor of the MPV C-Max
    sold originally in ICE form in Europe.

    Ford’s efforts in hybridization are greatly enhanced by having the HSD system
    shared with Toyota. C-Max and Fusion hybrids give Ford ammunition to compete
    with Toyota’s much more successful Prius, and also the Camry, Highlander and
    Lexus hybrids. Ford’s problem is it’s extra cautious approach. Not willing to
    spend the money to develop a proprietary hybrid platform will hurt sales in
    the end. Look for Toyota to volley with a Prius-V plug in, and possibly even
    a Prius C-BEV or PHEV. Ford prefers to follow and try to pick off hybrid
    customers with it’s hashed-together competitors. As an ICE model with a
    battery and hybrid system tacked on, C-Max does amazingly well. It’s not going
    to handle curves and zippy driving as well as Volt, nor get the combined mileage
    figures of a Prius ( even the plain hybrid ), but it will give a slightly different
    choice to those who prefer a CUV-type vehicle like Prius-V.

    I like the fact that Americans have more choices, thus the C-Max and Fusion
    Energi PHEVs get a big thumbs up from me. I didn’t have those choices when
    I bought my Volt, but they wouldn’t have swayed my decision. For most, the
    Volt works if you don’t have more than 1 or 2 kids and do have a daily commute
    not more than 40 miles, or double that if work allows you to plug in. I work from
    home ( at least now ) and yet Volt captured me from the beginning due to it’s
    balance of 40 mile EV+no range anxiety. I do get gas anxiety though, and would gladly
    drive a Model S instead of Volt, as like most of us – EV driving is addictive.

    GM sits at a place where it will lose it’s Voltec advantage if it doesn’t act quickly
    to get more options to market. If we speak in John1701a’s vernacular, GM
    needs to go whole-hog in the $22,000-29,000 hybrid category to gain market
    share. I agree and disagree. It’s sad GM couldn’t make a decent hybrid, but with
    Voltec and some clever engineering, they can still leapfrong AND outsell Prius
    if they built an affordable Volt with 5 seats and 50/50 AER/MPG.

    I’m glad there are more choices with and without plugs in several price categories,
    it’s a shame GM has been so slow to meet customer’s needs with viable competition
    in vehicle types and price ranges. Proof of concept is over, it’s time to move metal.

    I get tired of posting here, begging GM to build an EREV Colorado and CUV. It’s
    so within their capabilities, yet I suppose they sit and wait for Lithium-Sulfer or
    L-Air batteries or some other breakthrough to cut costs.

    Plug In And Feel The Power! ,

    James

    I also am a casual hypermiler and this time of
    year, as long as my trip has no major hills, I easily
    go 50+ miles all electric in my Volt.


  78. 78
    kdawg

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (2:22 pm)

    john1701a,

    LOL, so I guess you consider the Telsa Model S a failure too.

    Keep chasing your tail….


  79. 79
    Noel Park

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (2:48 pm)

    kdawg: Keep chasing your tail….

    #78

    Preferably elsewhere. +1


  80. 80
    john1701a

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (3:08 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  81. 81
    john1701a

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (3:14 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  82. 82
    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (3:15 pm)

    Bonaire:
    That e-NV200 is destined to become the new standard taxi in NYC.

    That’s what I thought at first but I think they are talking the ICE version.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/nyregion/nissan-minivan-chosen-as-new-york-citys-next-taxi.html

    There also was a law suit against the city trying to get a hybrid version OK’s also. I am not sure what status of that is.


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    steve

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (3:17 pm)

    Noel Park,

    I didn’t wade through the whole thing, but I did notice a couple of comparison points. Yes it has more electric range ( about double) and an optional two cylinder (650 cc 34hp) range extender brings the total range to a max of about 180miles. I recall reading somewhere that the range extender isn’t intended for regular use (whatever that implies). Still have to stop more often on road trips versus a Volt having the capability more like the typical car.

    Anyone want to venture a guess what the price will be?


  84. 84
    George S. Bower

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (3:43 pm)

    john1701a:
    Think about what “blended” actually means.

    I don’t want to. I don’t care about blending and I don’t think many others here do either.

    *uck blending give me all electric.


  85. 85
    Noel Park

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (3:49 pm)

    George S. Bower: *uck blending give me all electric.

    #84

    Amen. +1


  86. 86
    Noel Park

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (3:52 pm)

    steve: Anyone want to venture a guess what the price will be?

    #83

    Too high for me, LOL.


  87. 87
    Darius

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (4:13 pm)

    john1701a,
    Chevrolet Volt is realy superior product and realy Product since it is on EREV purpose built platform. PIP and Energi just variation of hybrids by squizing battery into available space. Do it makes sense. Yes. No development cost and no investment. Still Energi and Volt MSRP identical. Which one is dominant on the market – PIP draged by Prius hybrid or Volt??

    Talking about alternatives – VW selling many fold diesel Passat, Golf orJetta than Toyota selling hybrids. I never even consider any not plugin hybrid. VW or BMW diesels have much better MPG under real life conditions.


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    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (4:36 pm)

    Noel Park: #23

    Well I love my ’59 Suburban airport limo

    I’m definitely more liking of chevy styling compared to Ford when we especially talk 50’s. I prefer the 55 Chevy over the 56 Chevy. I’m not anti Ford they just didn’t have the styling. It was like they hired someone from Russia to style their cars. I call it “timeless” Ford styling or sometimes “Fordovsky”.

    Here’s a great example:
    Ford:
    fordovskyLimo_zps9b09ed6d.jpg

    Chevy:
    ChevyLimo_zpsa5c75b2a.jpg


  89. 89
    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (7:47 pm)

    I like this 55. Check where the headers come out the front wheel wells and the solid front axle.
    Very simple and lightened drag car from Ontario. (That’s where Neil Young comes from)

    chevy55hotrod_zps7a0bc1c9.jpg


  90. 90
    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (7:49 pm)

    and he better be running a big block.
    no mouse motors allowed.


  91. 91
    James

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (8:01 pm)

    I confess, I own a 1957 3100 series Chevy stepside truck with
    24,000+/- original miles.

    James – from my tablet


  92. 92
    Jackson

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (8:46 pm)

    Somebody needs to take one of those old cars and make an EREV or BEV out of it. Would be interesting for some show.


  93. 93
    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (8:49 pm)

    Here’s a live you tube video of Neil young with Crazy Horse doing “Ontario” in Ontario
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3JIVuX15Go


  94. 94
    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (8:57 pm)

  95. 95
    Jackson

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (9:00 pm)

    Say, does anyone know why a Volt would just roll down all of its windows without being set or commanded to do so? Is it trying to stay cool (and being outdoors, how would it know that it isn’t raining)?

    Also, my wife used a Blink charger for the first time, and reported that the car made an “unhappy noise” when she unplugged it.

    (I’ve been out of town most of the week, and have been Voltless all that time, except for questions 🙁 ).


  96. 96
    Jackson

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (9:07 pm)

    George S. Bower:
    Here’s a live you tube video of Neil young with Crazy Horse doing “Ontario” in Ontario
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3JIVuX15Go

    Huh?

    George S. Bower:
    Jackson:

    http://www.lincvolt.com/lincvolt_about
    Neil did it

    Cool


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    steve

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (9:54 pm)

    Noel Park: #83

    Too high for me, LOL.

    Wow, that’s exactly the price I was thinking.


  98. 98
    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 13th, 2013 (9:55 pm)

    Jackson:
    Say, does anyone know why a Volt would just roll down all of its windows without being set or commanded to do so

    It’s called butt dialing your remote only with it in your front pocket


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    kdawg

     

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    Jul 14th, 2013 (2:26 am)

    Jackson: Somebody needs to take one of those old cars and make an EREV or BEV out of it. Would be interesting for some show.

    1963 VW Beetle EV Conversion
    http://youtu.be/Nzos5qz3_A4


  100. 100
    kdawg

     

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    Jul 14th, 2013 (2:32 am)

    Jackson: Say, does anyone know why a Volt would just roll down all of its windows without being set or commanded to do so? Is it trying to stay cool (and being outdoors, how would it know that it isn’t raining)?

    Here’s a thread on it from the forums.

    http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?9606-Help-my-Volt-put-it-s-windows-down-with-the-sprinklers-on


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    Darius

     

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    Jul 14th, 2013 (2:40 am)

    George S. Bower,

    #88 #89,

    It reminds me Gaz Volga 21. 90% cars on USSR streets where Volga 21 in fithties and sixties. You can find it at Jay Leno garage as well.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozzlbrh6Tfc&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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    Raymondjram

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    Jul 14th, 2013 (10:31 am)

    john1701a:
    Toyota is nearing 1,000,000 per year of non-traditional sales, and got close last year.

    You just confirmed the list of 1,000,000 poor idiots that made those sales. And your are at the head of that list.


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    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 14th, 2013 (1:12 pm)

    Darius,

    #101
    Good video on the Volga. Looks like a Nash rambler grill w/ early 50’s Chevy tail lights and a 56 Ford speedo. I knew Ford was using Russian designers. You just confirmed it!!


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    George S. Bower

     

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    Jul 14th, 2013 (1:22 pm)

    What no comments on that cool 55 Chevy drag car in #89??

    Did you notice:

    Looks like the car had a front “clip”. This is where everything from the firewall forward is cut off and a light weight tubular frame is used instead, along with the solid front axle.

    Also notice fiberglass one piece engine hood/ fender assembly which tilts forward to get access to the engine.

    and the “moon eyes” on the front and over the headers on the side.

    Now that’s some good old American iron.


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    Eco_Turbo

     

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    Jul 14th, 2013 (1:55 pm)

    The Department of Energy and GM get it.

    http://energy.gov/articles/egallon-how-much-cheaper-it-drive-electricity

    Ford, Toyota and others, don’t.


  106. 106
    http://keepingyouridsafe.com/identity-theft-insurance

     

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    Jul 18th, 2013 (6:07 pm)

    When some one searches for his vital thing, therefore he/she
    needs to be available that in detail, therefore that thing is maintained over
    here.