Jun 18

Jay Leno reviews Cadillac ELR

 

As many of you know, Jay Leno had the ELR on his show for a complete 15-plus minute video.

His guests to explain the car were none other than Director of Advanced Design,
Frank Saucedo, and Vehicle Chief Engineer Chris Thomason.

Jay_Leno_ELR
 

Notice Leno says he likes the no range anxiety at around 6:09 compared even to the long-range Tesla Model S electric car. He also likes the liquid cooling over the Leaf.

GM’s people called it an E-REV, despite previous statements that the marketers would not. Jay called it a plug-in hybrid, but one that does not look like a veggie burber” like other hybrids do, in his view.

Nope, the American-made ELR, with its 0.305 cd, and modeled on the Converj, is as real as genuine hamburger … or is this Cadillac a steak, and the Volt is a hamburger?


 

Not sure, but despite sporty styling cues including 20-inch wheels, Leno emphasizes this a car for high mpg, or MPGe, as the case may be.

He also says this is “the future” given that the ELR is ready for CAFE 2025 and beyond.

When asked what “ELR” stands for, Leno is told it means “absolutely nothing.”

That’s one interpretation. Others may say the ELR stands for GM’s next E-REV.

JayLenosGarage

This entry was posted on Tuesday, June 18th, 2013 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 107


  1. 1
    nasaman

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (6:12 am)

    “When asked what “ELR” stands for, Leno is told it means “absolutely nothing.” That’s one interpretation. Others may say the ELR stands for GM’s next E-REV.”

    How ’bout “Exotic Luxury Roadcar”? In any case, this video is the best look I’ve seen at the ELR’s interior (including the regen paddles) and the exterior …and Jay’s comments are well worth hearing!

    Good topic, Jeff!

    PS: Suggest using 720p or 1080p & full screen at this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-X-0hjx8q8


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    haroldC

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:06 am)

    How about “Extended Luxury Range”……….
    The “absolutely nothing.” answer is lame.
    Someone at GM must have decided what letters to put on the car……..or is it “TOP SECRET”?
    Bob Lutz should have an answer……
    haroldC


  3. 3
    xiaowei1

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:22 am)

    Looks much better than I envisaged, well done GM. the styling on both the interior and exterior looks great. The graphics on the display is what I hoped the Volt would have looked like – I guess what I am saying is it looks great too.

    also

    I thought ELR was Electric Long Range.


  4. 4
    Nelson

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (8:13 am)

    Fit & Finish question:
    Is it the lighting or angle of view that makes the door window trim look thinner than the rear window trim?

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


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    kdawg

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (8:24 am)

    Too bad Jay didn’t ask what the price would be.

    And a question for Jay; are you going to buy one?


  6. 6
    kdawg

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (8:29 am)

    Nelson:
    Fit & Finish question:
    Is it the lighting or angle of view that makes the door window trim look thinner than the rear window trim?

    NPNS!
    Volt#671

    It’s either the lighting or someone has leaned on that door too much.

    Looks equal here:

    cadillac-elr-1.jpg


  7. 7
    nasaman

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (9:20 am)

    OT: Here’s a new link from one of our occasional posters, Leo Karl. It’s the best “virtual” test drive I’ve seen— and it’s a perfect link to email your friends & family to help them understand/appreciate a Volt: https://www.facebook.com/lkarl3/posts/10200211704280893?notif_t=close_friend_activity

    PS: This 10 min video is for those prefering a “poor mans” ELR; suggest you use 720p & full screen


  8. 8
    Tim Hart

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (9:23 am)

    Great looking car but lets face it–the ELR is just Cadillac’s version of the Volt. Looks just the same under the hood, same 1.4 liter generator, same battery, almost identical range. Very cool though.


  9. 9
    Raymondjram

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (9:34 am)

    kdawg:
    Too bad Jay didn’t ask what the price would be.

    And a question for Jay; are you going to buy one?

    Jay could buy a year’s production of Volts! He will buy one for his collection of electrics, and probably interchange the ELR with his Volt when he wants to feel more luxury that day. I saw this video yesterday and enjoyed it, although Jay has his way of asking questions. Maybe he didn’t have enough time for the show, but off camera Jay does ask more questions.

    But the price question does merit an answer from GM and Cadillac. So does the availability of the first production vehicles. Where will they be sold? In California?

    The Cadillac ELR deserves to be sold in New York City, where there are plenty of previous Cadillac models, and the EREV model will fit right at home in city traffic.

    Raymond


  10. 10
    Loboc

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (9:49 am)

    That is one good looking Caddy. If I were in a slightly higher tax bracket…


  11. 11
    George S. Bower

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (10:27 am)

    I’m sorry.

    I lost interest 7:16 when Jay started emphasizing “no mechanical connection” between the engine and driveline. Jay is a car guy, owns a Volt and still doesn’t know how it works.

    Also he immediately alienated me at the beginning by calling the car a HYBRID but not an ugly hybrid (a reference to the Prius no doubt).

    Hey Jay: It’s not a hybrid. It’s an electric car.

    Hey Jay: There IS a connection between the engine and driveline. It’s called “POWER SPLIT”


  12. 12
    Eric

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (10:42 am)

    Despite what we already knew about the ELR, I kept hoping that Jay would be surprised by the car’s acceleration. I kept hoping he would say it was much faster than his Volt. Alas, it wasn’t to be. No surprise I guess, but still disappointing. A car that looks that good, and costs so much, needs to be fast, IMO.


  13. 13
    Mark Z

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (10:54 am)

    The two photos that Jeff selected show clearly how angle is important in marketing. GM uses the longer look of the second photo. IMHO, the angle of the first photo would not appear in a product brochure. I appreciated the history of the vertical Cadillac headlights and tail lights in the video.

    It was fun to compare Jay’s comments when viewing both the ELR and Model S videos. Direct links are below for ease in accessing them both.

    ELR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-X-0hjx8q8

    Model S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoFVO31CbE0

    Jay loves to see miles added with regenerative braking as GM adds them to the display. Tesla holds the existing range number until the added power is used up. Just one of the interesting comparisons.


  14. 14
    hvacman

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (10:55 am)

    I’ve taken my Volt to several energy/green festivals and talked to hundreds of people about it. When asked “Is the Volt is an electric vehicle or is it a hybrid?”, I usually answer “yes”.

    I’ve tried numerous different explanations. The answer most people understand best is to say it is a unique vehicle that runs as a pure EV for 40 miles, but when the battery is depleted, or whenever I decide to switch it by pressing the “Hold” button, it morphs into a hybrid that runs kind of like a Prius except with a lot more power and comfort. I skip all the parallel/serial/power split/extended range EV discussion unless they express specific interest in the technical details, which most don’t.

    Even a lot of gearheads don’t understand much about how hybrids work or the differences between the different hybrid architectures. Get too technical and eyes glaze over.


  15. 15
    James

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:01 am)

    From the article: ” … or is this Cadillac a steak, and the Volt is a hamburger?”

    _______________________________________________________________________

    The Volt is a nice lean steak I can buy at the store and cook on my grille. The
    ELR is nearly the same steak, smaller in size, purchased at a foo foo restaurant grilled by
    someone else, served with a drizzle of sauce in the shape of a curly-q and
    sliver of a carrot for garnish and costing me enough to feed my kids for a week.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    Is the ambiance worth $65,000?


  16. 16
    DonC

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:11 am)

    I think GM did a fantastic job with this car. It may be the best looking compact I’ve ever seen.

    And that’s the problem — it’s a compact. I just don’t know how many people will pony up $60K for a compact.


  17. 17
    Raymondjram

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:12 am)

    James:
    The Volt is a nice lean steak I can buy at the store and cook on my grille. The
    ELR is nearly the same steak, purchased at a foo foo restaurant grilled by
    someone else, served with a drizzle of sauce in the shape of a curly-q and
    sliver of a carrot for garnish and costing me enough to feed my kids for a week.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    Wow! Do you spend $65,000 on a week of food?

    In reality, I bet that the Cadillac ELR price is just 50% over the price of a fully equiped Volt. So your “ELR” steak will cost just 50% more than the Volt steak. For an American luxury electric car, I can live with that!

    Raymond

    P.S. If you get a negative vote, it wasn’t from me.


  18. 18
    James

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:17 am)

    I watched this video last night at JayLenosGarage.com. When they opened the
    hood and Leno peeks inside, I looked at his face and read his mind: “Hey, that’s
    the exact same powerplant as in my Volt with the Chevy logos removed!!!”
    Seriously – look at the expression on his face – either he didn’t say anything
    out of respect ( after all, the guy designed his jet car! ). Or they edited that part
    out.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    You think for the money GM’s gonna ask for the thing, you’d at least get unique plastic cladding
    over the engine and electronics! Leaving us all to think an ELR buyer cares a whole lot less about the powertrain than the rich Corinthian leather and CUE.


  19. 19
    Loboc

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:24 am)

    hvacman: When asked “Is the Volt is an electric vehicle or is it a hybrid?”, I usually answer “yes”.

    I just let them think it’s a hybrid with a very large MPG potential. The nuance of an EV with a gas engine is just too much.

    My wife is one of them. She was in the car the other day and I had the display on the eco screen. She said: “Unbelievable that this thing gets 250+MPG!”. (I actually got 360mpg last month.)

    If I try to get too technical, yep, eyes glaze over.

    If someone asks me why I bought the Volt, I have two stock answers:

    1. Saving $3,000/year in fuel alone.
    2. I’m a tech guy and this is the highest tech car I could find.

    They usually buy the second one, so, I should probably lead with that.


  20. 20
    imanjunk1963

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:25 am)

    Which now begs me to ask a few questions back on the volt. Does the 1.4l engine have a timing belt or chain of any kind? I thought were was a water pump belt and the only one but not sure if everything else is gear driven? Also is the exhaust of the volt also located similarly hidden in the back as the caddi? And are there similart parts of radiators and such that run standard fluids through it or are they some high tech concotions? Thanks for any info anyone can provide.


  21. 21
    James

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:28 am)

    Raymondjram: Wow! Do you spend $60,000 on a week of food?

    Raymond

    I think you missed the whole metaphor thing. :)

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  22. 22
    Stephen H

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:34 am)

    The Cadillac ELR appears to be a fancy version of the Chevy Volt. It will probably be slightly faster than the Chevy Volt as it looks like it’s been tuned a bit more for performance. Personally given the choice between both cars even if I had the money to purchase either I would still get the Volt. I prefer practical and I am already more than happy with the Volt’s styling considering my previous car was an 05 Corolla.

    Ironically there will be some folks who value appearance over functionality. The Fisker for example was a car that was designed to look cool but broke down, caught on actual fire due to design issues and was really just a bad car overall. (Consumer Reports broke their car during testing.) But folks raved about it’s looks despite the fact that at the end of the day, I would never trade my Volt for it even thou it cost more because I know it’s reliability was horrible.

    GM probably listened to folks complaining that the Volt didn’t look cool enough and so they designed the really nice looking Cadillac ELR. I personally would never pay so much just for looks but as Fisker proved there are a lot of folks who would. Unlike the Fisker, thou this Cadillac is based on the Volt platform which has proven in the 3 years it’s been out to be reliable and solid so for the folks interested in looks and reliability, the more power to you. But I think most Volt owners are happy with a slightly less amazing looking car (but not necessarily worse performing).


  23. 23
    Loboc

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:35 am)

    James: You think for the money GM’s gonna ask for the thing, you’d at least get unique plastic cladding
    over the engine and electronics! Leaving us all to think an ELR buyer cares a whole lot less about the powertrain than the rich Corinthian leather and CUE.

    I open the Volt’s hood if a gearhead wants to look at some plastic stuff. Not much to see. The only thing I’ve done in there is fill the windshield washer reservoir.

    I seriously doubt that a Caddy owner cares. Most I know don’t unless they are driving CTS-V. All that stuff is their mechanic’s problem.

    And this is one issue I have with ELR. They should have waited until wireless charging was standard. Not too many Caddy owners want to fiddle with their car every day.

    I think Jay is on the right track. ELR is a different stroke for different folks. He understands that CTS-V and ELR have different motivations and different ways to have fun.


  24. 24
    James

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:37 am)

    Raymondjram: Wow! Do you spend $65,000 on a week of food?

    In reality, I bet that the Cadillac ELR price is just 50% over the price of a fully equiped Volt. So your “ELR” steak will cost just 50% more than the Volt steak. For an American luxury electric car, I can live with that!

    Raymond

    P.S. If you get a negative vote, it wasn’t from me.

    The big question is – will people buy a $60-70,000 Volt? We know Volt drives
    like a well-appointed luxury car. True, many folks don’t. And true, many folks
    buy labels. If it says “Cadillac” on it – it must be better, right? In truth – it’s
    the very same car with larger wheels, a bit stiffer suspension and paddle-shift
    regen. The paddle shift regen is a whole subject, but even if one thinks it’s
    amazing, it’s not worth $25,000. The wedgy shape isn’t as fetching as Converj,
    but they did a respectable job in replicating it on a smaller platform – but
    this makes a tiny backseat only worthy of 2 children. Contrast this with the
    entry Model S – and I just cannot see the value of ELR in any context. Every
    Supercharger that gets built is like a proverbial nail in ELR’s very limited edtion
    and seemingly sensless coffin.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    To me, ELR says in GM’s eyes, Voltec loses a ton of money and they really
    do not know what to do with it. :(


  25. 25
    Steverino

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:39 am)

    imanjunk1963: s the exhaust of the volt also located similarly hidden in the back as the caddi? And are there similart parts of radiators and such that run standard fluids through it or are they some high tech concotions? Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

    imanjunk1963:
    Which now begs me to ask a few questions back on the volt.Does the 1.4l engine have a timing belt or chain of any kind? I thought were was a water pump belt and the only one but not sure if everything else is gear driven? Also is the exhaust of the volt also located similarly hidden in the back as the caddi?And are there similart parts of radiators and such that run standard fluids through it or are they some high tech concotions? Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

    Chain
    Yes, exhaust is hidden in same place
    Yes, similar parts, standard fluid. It’s a 1.4l gas engine.


  26. 26
    Loboc

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:42 am)

    Stephen H: ELR appears to be a fancy version of the Chevy Volt

    Or, it’s a fancy version of a Cruze. Depends on who you talk to.

    ELR and Volt are as different from each other (market-wise) as Volt is to Cruze. However, with all the propaganda out there, it’s not clear to a mere mortal non-car guy.


  27. 27
    Khadgars

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:46 am)

    James:
    I watched this video last night at JayLenosGarage.com.When they opened the
    hood and Leno peeks inside, I looked at his face and read his mind: “Hey, that’s
    the exact same powerplant as in my Volt with the Chevy logos removed!!!”
    Seriously – look at the expression on his face – either he didn’t say anything
    out of respect ( after all, the guy designed his jet car! ). Or they edited that part
    out.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    You’d think for the money GM’s gonna ask for
    the thing – you’d at least get unique plastic cladding over the engine and electronics! Leaving
    us all to think GM assumes an ELR buyer cares much less about the powertrain than the rich
    Corinthian leather and CUE.

    Well I think there could be another reason. My thoughts are that the ELR, which basically is taking the best parts of the Volt and turning it into a luxury vehicle will stay very similar probably throughout the rest of the decade, where as the Volt Gen II will go in another direction, probably smaller generator, removal of some of the LCD screens, etc and make it much more cheaper. My guess is you will get an interior similar to a Prius.


  28. 28
    George S. Bower

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (11:58 am)

    hvacman:

    I’ve tried numerous different explanations. The answer most people understand best is to say it is a unique vehicle thatruns as a pure EV for 40 miles, but when the battery is depleted, or whenever I decide to switch it by pressing the “Hold” button, it morphs into a hybrid that runs kind of like a Prius except with a lot more power and comfort. I skip all the parallel/serial/power split/extended range EV discussion unless they express specific interest in the technical details, which most don’t.

    Get too technical and eyes glaze over.

    Yeh I’ve tried both ways.

    1) It’s a pure EV for 40 miles then it sorta turns into a Prius

    2) It’s a pure EV for 40 miles then a gas engine comes on.

    Then the next question is:

    So the gas engine charges the battery then???

    At this point I usually get too technical and eyes glass over.

    I think I will just say yes.

    I’m curious about other Volt owners:

    What have you found is the best way to describe how the Volt works??


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    kdawg

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:08 pm)

    James: The wedgy shape isn’t as fetching as Converj,
    but they did a respectable job in replicating it on a smaller platform

    I’m not following. They look almost identical to me.

    ELRvsConverjFront_zps44cc16bc.jpg

    ELRvsConverjSide_zps7bfc5c4d.jpg

    ELRvsConverjangle_zpsd7e48c12.jpg


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    kdawg

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:11 pm)

    George S. Bower: What have you found is the best way to describe how the Volt works??

    The only thing that seems to hold their attention is when I say I haven’t bought gas since February.


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    nasaman

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:21 pm)

    James: Contrast (the ELR) with the entry Model S – and I just cannot see the value of ELR in any context.

    I strongly disagree —eg, the Model S Tesla (or the Tesla Roadster) CANNOT be driven from NY to LA with only very brief stops for fuel at any of a multitude of existing gas stations! IMHO Elon Musk was seriously mistaken to have abandoned his original plan to offer an EREV design option!!!!!!!!!


  32. 32
    kdawg

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:25 pm)

    James: If it says “Cadillac” on it – it must be better, right? In truth – it’s
    the very same car with larger wheels, a bit stiffer suspension and paddle-shift
    regen.

    Differences:

    58 more HP
    Faster 0-60mph
    9″ longer, longer wheel-base
    2″ wider
    Regen paddles
    CUE system
    Leather, wood, and carbon fiber interior
    20″ wheels
    Full LED lighting
    Cadillac’s Safety Alert Seat
    Adaptive cruise control
    HiPer anti-torque-steer front struts
    Watt’s link in the torsion-beam rear suspension
    Computer-controlled adaptive dampers
    Upgraded brakes
    + more

    To me, the Volt and the ELR are quite a bit different.


  33. 33
    HiFlite

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:33 pm)

    George S. Bower: Yeh

    What have you found is the best way to describe how the Volt works??

    “A standard hybrid, even a plug-in hybrid, has a big gas engine and a small electric motor. The motor assists the engine. A Volt has a big motor and a small engine. The engine assists the motor. When the battery has charge, it runs 100% electric. When the battery is discharged, the engine runs a big generator to provide electricity for the motor. You don’t have to be a gearhead to own one. If you never plug it in, it runs like a normal car. If you plug it in at home every night, it becomes a normal car that gets fantastic gas mileage. Either way, it’s astonishingly quiet.”


  34. 34
    volt11

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:34 pm)

    kdawg: Differences:

    58 more HP
    Faster 0-60mph
    Regen paddles
    CUE system
    Leather, wood, and carbon fiber interior
    20″ wheels
    Cadillac’s Safety Alert Seat
    Adaptive cruise control
    HiPer anti-torque-steer front struts
    Watt’s link in the torsion-beam rear suspension
    Computer-controlled adaptive dampers
    + more

    To me, the Volt and the ELR are quite a bit different.

    Yes, but the proof will be in the pudding. Whether all that produced a car that feels worth substantially more (to match the price) is still a question. I didn’t get the feeling that Jay Leno was feeling it was clearly better than the Volt. I really look forward to the first real reviews.


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    George S. Bower

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:41 pm)

    kdawg: Differences:

    58 more HP

    GM specs:

    Drive motor, 117-135 kW

    http://media.gm.com/media/ca/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/ca/en/2013/Jan/0115_ELR_Preliminary_Specifications.html

    vs 111 kw Volt

    that’s +24 kw=+ 32 HP


  36. 36
    kdawg

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:50 pm)

    George S. Bower,

    Cadillac ELR
    Power (kW / hp): 154 / 207 (total system power)

    Chevy Volt
    Power (kW / hp): 111 / 149 (total system power)

    207 – 149 = 58hp

    Note the ELR also has and additional 22 ft-lb of torque


  37. 37
    Loboc

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:50 pm)

    volt11,

    “When you turn you’re car on, does it return the favor?”

    This is why people buy cars. Emotionally, not practically.


  38. 38
    Jim I

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (12:54 pm)

    Late today, but my thoughts:

    I thought ELR was Electric Luxury Roadster

    IMHO, the ELR BASE price will be mid $60K, Loaded up with all options, it will approach $80K.

    I have found that the best way to describe the car is to say that I use about 50 gallons of gas per YEAR! If they want more info, then you go into how it runs most days on battery alone, but for longer trips, the ICE starts up to recharge the battery and you get about 40 mpg. I save the split power topic for people that are really into engineering…..

    I am just upset that us regular Volt owners weren’t offered a preview test drive of the ELR by GM!!!!

    :)

    C-5277


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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (1:05 pm)

    kdawg:
    George S. Bower,

    Cadillac ELR
    Power (kW / hp): 154 / 207 (total system power)

    Chevy Volt
    Power (kW / hp): 111 / 149 (total system power)

    207 – 149 = 58hp

    Note the ELR also has and additional 22 ft-lb of torque

    total system power is a misnomer.
    You can’t add the ICE and electric. The Voltec power train doesn’t work that way.

    so how are they coming up with 154 Kw???
    The traction motor is rated at 134 Kw max??


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    Loboc

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (1:26 pm)

    George S. Bower,

    I thought the rating was ‘nominal ‘ not ‘peak’. An electric motor can run short bursts over rating without blowing up. By drawing from generated power and battery simultaneously, it’s possible to peak higher than rated.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (1:30 pm)

    George S. Bower: total system power is a misnomer.
    You can’t add the ICE and electric. The Voltec power train doesn’t work that way.

    Who says all the power has to go to the traction motors? You also have efficiency losses.


  42. 42
    Noel Park

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (1:34 pm)

    kdawg: I’m not following. They look almost identical to me.

    #29

    Great job. You are the MAN! +1


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    Greg Simpson

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (1:35 pm)

    I can’t believe how much they go on and on about the vertical headlights or the tail fin emulating rear lights, and how all this is suitable for a Cadillac. Yuck! Based on looks only I’d rather have a Leaf, as it makes better use of space.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (1:37 pm)

    kdawg: The only thing that seems to hold their attention is when I say I haven’t bought gas since February.

    #30

    Yeah, that pretty much says it all. +1

    I just checked this AM. I bought gas on April 1. I’m going to San Diego after the 4th, so I’ll have to buy some then, drat it. But 3 months ain’t bad.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (1:39 pm)

    Sorry, but i can’t sit through a 15 minute video on the ELR. I just don’t get it. In the interest of staying positive, I’ll just leave it at that.


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    Raymondjram

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (1:56 pm)

    Noel Park:
    Sorry, but i can’t sit through a 15 minute video on the ELR.I just don’t get it.In the interest of staying positive, I’ll just leave it at that.

    Watch it while taking in a snack, like I did last night. Jay isn’t such a good speaker (he rambles a bit), but seeing the video of a real Cadillac ELR on the road is entertaining (and I haven’t seen a real Volt yet!).

    Raymond


  47. 47
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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:01 pm)

    Eric:
    Despite what we already knew about the ELR, I kept hoping that Jay would be surprised by the car’s acceleration.I kept hoping he would say it was much faster than his Volt.Alas, it wasn’t to be.No surprise I guess, but still disappointing.A car that looks that good, and costs so much, needs to be fast, IMO.

    Ditto…I kept somehow, some way, thinking “maybe it really will be a quick little sports coupe and GM has been holding out on us…”, alas it wasn’t to be. I think even Jay was a bit disappointed and did his best to spin it. I couldn’t hep but wonder, if this car had been introduced first would it have been received better or worse than the Volt by the General public? Look at the Tesla Model S – no one really blinks at its price because it goes up against similarly priced cars like the A8 and 750. A Cadillac MIGHT have fared similarly…of course GM did lug around all that bankruptcy baggage regardless.
    I have to say, it it were $5k-$10K more than a loaded Volt I might have been inclined to step up…beyond that, not so much. One thing is for sure…this will be uber rare.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:08 pm)

    nasaman: IMHO Elon Musk was seriously mistaken to have abandoned his original plan to offer an EREV design option!!!!!!!!!

    +1


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:13 pm)

    Chris: Look at the Tesla Model S – no one really blinks at its price

    #47

    I do, LOL.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:23 pm)

    Loboc:
    George S. Bower,

    I thought the rating was ‘nominal ‘ not ‘peak’. An electric motor can run short bursts over rating without blowing up. By drawing from generated power and battery simultaneously, it’s possible to peak higher than rated.

    That’s the only explanation I can come up with right now.

    It could be that they are quoting a situation where you have your foot in it and the car is in series mode. They are taking some juice out of the generator and adding it to the battery pack juice and temporarily letting the traction motor put out 154 kw.

    Now that they have done a mild hot rodding to the Voltec power train they should just put it in the lighter wt Volt and call it a Volt SS.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:28 pm)

    Noel Park: #30

    Yeah, that pretty much says it all.+1

    I just checked this AM.I bought gas on April 1.I’m going to San Diego after the 4th, so I’ll have to buy some then, drat it.But 3 months ain’t bad.

    OK Noel and kdawg,
    Then I guess that’s the best pitch.

    Also if they ask about what it costs you say the lease is 329$/mo and you save 250$/mo in gas.


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    James

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:34 pm)

    kdawg: I’m not following.They look almost identical to me.

    You seriously cannot tell the difference? Just look at your photos. There are
    tons of differences. Designers on video said they did their best to capture
    the Converj on the smaller Cruze platform. As I said, they did a good job
    of that. The car on road doesn’t have the killer presence that Converj did -
    with it’s uber huge wheels and rubber band thin meats. Also, once
    tire clearances are factored in, the car still looks good, but not that
    WOW! effect the Converj had. I think the whole wedge look needed the
    larger proportions of the concept. Other things caught my eye, like the
    lower rocker panel indentation running the length of the car between
    the wheels. On some angles with the metallic paint, it seems the cut doesn’t
    match up between door and qtr. panel. I’m sure they did the best they
    could, but better executed on the original. On the Converj, the line is
    sharp and deep, then just fades away before it gets to the rear wheel
    well. On the production model, it looks like they tried to link the crease
    to the rear wheel, but the transition between the rear edge of the door
    and rear panel didn’t blend perfectly.

    Another way I’d put it is- the car in real life is attractive, it’s just not a show-
    stopper like the concept car.

    The Converj was so dramatic, you just knew it would be faster, higher-tech
    and more a sports car than Volt. As it is – it’s a software program and some
    paddle regen levers, with a very cramped back seat good for perhaps your
    windbreaker.

    The Converj suggest a lot of things. This car is a major disappointment on
    so many levels.

    If you’re a retired, upper-income person who places style over function, and
    can have this as a toy laying around – it may be a good fit for your car
    collection. Still – most thinking types would drive this – then drive Model S
    and wouldn’t give the ELR a second thought.

    Plug It In, Plug It In,

    James


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:34 pm)

    George S. Bower: So the gas engine charges the battery then???

    At this point I usually get too technical and eyes glass over.

    I think I will just say yes.

    Just say “yes” – Exactly! It is close enough to true to not bother correcting. People feel good when they have intuitively figured out something technical on their own – the light bulb goes on – and that is what makes them smile, think positively about the Volt concept and retain the experience in their memory. Technical corrections just disrupt the power of this good feeling. Teachers understand this. Engineers sometimes do not.

    For those interested in the next level of detail, I like how Andrew Farah once succinctly described the power flow and control for the Volt:

    “accelerator pedal controls the electric motor.
    Motor draws electric power from the battery.
    Battery controls the gas engine generator”.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:36 pm)

    So what if the ELR is a gussied up Chevy Volt – I felt from the beginning that GM should have had the Volt be a Cadillac instead of a Chevy. Chevy, Cadillac…. these are just brand names; the Volt is simply an engineering masterpiece that transcends negative brand perception.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:50 pm)

    On design elements – I think they should have dropped the HUUUUGE Caddy
    Grillepiece. Designers assumed they had to plaster onlookers with the Caddy
    brand image. Strange that these cars do not need huge grille openings but
    they know they need to present some sort of grille-esque piece there to appease
    the minds of folks who just think it should be there. Tesla’s designer did the same
    thing, placing what looks like a grille in the middle of Model S’s “face”. I like the
    Tesla, but feel the Caddy is too “in your face”. Then they put this silly metal
    strip on the leading edge of the hood for no reason, but to eccentuate the
    huge “Edge Design” Caddy mug!

    We know engineers have all sorts of reasons they do things. One is pedestrian
    safety integrated into the front design of cars – also they have standards for
    bumper heights and other issues to contend with. Even with all these considerations
    in mind – I think the ELR’s nose is cartoonish in it’s extreme-ness. You’ll note
    BMW and Mercedes are reducing the size of their trademark noses in their latest
    iterations to increase aero Cd. Caddy seems to be ENLARGING THIERS. Their other
    newest design, the 2014 CTS increased the size of it’s grille over it’s predecessor.

    It’s just my opinion – and beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder – but this
    seems plain to me that Cadillac is fishing for elderly buyers who have expectations
    of throwbacks to the past. Porsche and Ferrari buyers know that swoopy means
    progressive, fast and efficient. Old Caddy buyers want a big nose out there telling
    folks they’ve made it.

    I’m a form-follows-function kind of guy – plus, I think swoopy looks better –
    somebody who actually thinks the Bugatti Veyron’s nose is fetching, please
    contact me. I’d love to hear your rationale.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (2:52 pm)

    “Whatever you do, just don’t call it Voltec!” seems to be the marketing directive for this video. Leno does as he is told, biting his tongue when he sees what’s under the hood. The ELR is technically near-identical to the Volt. I suspect that the extra HP, torque and 0-60MPH are the result of software _only_. The entire drivetrain is mechanically identical (don’t call it Voltec). A little less rerating and a little less torque softening does the trick, at the expense of a little more wear. If we could jailbreak our Volt we likely get the same numbers. It makes total sense for GM to reduce the variety of complex drive trains that need to be supported, especially given how few will be sold.

    That said, this is a nice review, and I must say that the ELR looks drop-dead gorgeous. I’d probably pay a $10K premium for this luxury trim of Voltec (ouch! dont call it Voltec!). Any more and I’d buy a Tesla instead: also american made but in an entirely different class.

    Leno knows what he talks about and does not talk nonsense. Notice that he does not say it drives any better or different that the Volt. Much of the review is about the Cadillac styling, and really that is what it should be about since there is no technological progress to report here. Styling is more important than technology. That point is evidently made by the ELR’s drag coefficient: 0.305 vs. the Volt’s 0.281. And the used of 20″ wheels is great for looks, but not for comfort or efficiency.

    The ELR has paddles on the steering wheel to control regeneration, on top of the brake pedal to control. I’m not sure I buy that that is a killer feature. How is that different that using the cruise control’s rocker switch in L? Left thumb vs right middle finger I guess.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:00 pm)

    Noel Park: Chris: Look at the Tesla Model S – no one really blinks at its price
    #47
    I do, LOL.

    Me too. Until Tesla comes out with their Blue Star, they are off my purchasing radar.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:08 pm)

    nasaman: I strongly disagree —eg, the Model S Tesla (or the Tesla Roadster) CANNOT be driven from NY to LA with only very brief stops for fuel at any of a multitude of existing gas stations! IMHO Elon Musk was seriously mistaken to have abandoned his original plan to offer an EREV design option!!!!!!!!!

    While you strongly disagree, Tesla Superchargers are going up like weeds. It’s
    just amazing that other car companies sit on their hands and just watch it in
    disbelief. Are they just saying, “Oh they’re another Fisker, and if not we’ll buy
    them out!”???

    Once a fast-charging infrastructure makes the “range anxiety” argument moot,
    the thought of a 19th Century gas mill in your car to augment the electricity
    will seem so “early 21st Century”.

    GM is now working with BMW to propogate the new SAE Combo chargers. Will
    their efforts pale in comparison to Tesla? They are so huge and Tesla so small.
    Tesla just makes them look pathetic. EREVs are fantastic, yet most every fan
    of Volt has admitted PHEVs and EREVs are a bridge to basically what the
    Model S already is – 200-300-400 mile BEVs with quick charging capability.

    Bob Lutz and Tony Posawatz commented on how easy it would be to make an
    all electric version of Volt. WHY HAVEN’T THEY?!!! Hopefully they will, and
    we can move on to the future. Until then, EREVs work fine and will get the
    job done. ELR just doesn’t make ANY logical sense. It’s another Caddilac flop
    like Allante and XLR. Intended to be halos – they fell on their collective faces
    and really did just the opposite – they made Cadillac look inept at identifying
    new markets.

    Come on, NASA – do you really think a $65,000 Volt with poodle room in the
    back is a good idea?

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:09 pm)

    RobbertPatrison: Whatever you do, just don’t call it Voltec!

    They should not have named the technology and the car with similar designations. Now, as we see, it is difficult to use the Volt’s Tech (VolTec) in a totally different car without seeing the origin.

    Normally, technology moves from the higher end to the mainstream. Here we have poor old Chevy underpinnings in a Cadillac. Not good.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:11 pm)

    RobbertPatrison,

    I think you nailed it. I bet money that the whole thing was preconcieved (staged as you will) to not make any references to it being a VOLT derivative.

    I suppose that makes sense from a marketing POV.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:17 pm)

    Jim I: I thought ELR was Electric Luxury Roadster

    A ‘roadster’ is normally a convertible. However, now we have 4-door sedans and 2-door sedans and 4-door coupes, so, go figure.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:17 pm)

    James: You seriously cannot tell the difference?

    Nope. If I had to give a percentage, I’d say they are 97% the same other than some very minor things, like the front end, which I prefer the look of the ELR.

    James: If you’re a retired, upper-income person who places style over function, and
    can have this as a toy laying around – it may be a good fit for your car
    collection.

    That’s probably a large portion of the Cadillac market. This thing probably rides as smooth as glass too, which is very important for most ppl looking for a “luxury” ride.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:19 pm)

    Plus – I have always been a huge detractor of cars that look fast, but aren’t.

    Many times – car companies take a platform, say Honda Civic or Accord, for
    instance, and make sporty body 2 door versions to get the younger, single
    buyer. I know – I’ve bought them. Of course, back then, all I could think of
    was looking sporty for the ladies for as little bucks as possible. Once I
    drove my 1st gen Honda Prelude, I knew I got bushwacked. The car was
    basically a Civic that handled like a grocery getter and that actually made
    it dangerous. I’d read that Prelude was considered by NHTSA as one of
    America’s most accident-prone cars. You see, the buyers look at it and it
    has all the outer earmarks of speed and sport – but underneath it’s wishy-
    washy and inept in regards to fast driving dynamics. The result is folks
    drive them harder than a small FWD sedan, and they go off the road.
    They pick fights with real sport-capable cars and lose…Many times
    in very dangerous ways.

    My nephew went through his High School, college-aged fancy with small
    FWD imports gussied up as some kind of low-slung performance car. I did
    as well – I had a VW Beetle I dressed up as a “Cal Bug” – a poor man’s
    Porsche, if you will. After spending oodles of paychecks lowering the car
    and adding all sorts of components, I realized it still performed like the
    low-budget people’s car it was. A big waste of time.

    I think ELR was a big waste of GM’s time, talents and resources and it will
    bite them in the rear end. ELR looks fast – not as fast as Converj looked, but
    it still looks like a wedge-bilt-fer-speed. Let me tell ya’ll – IT AINT! It’s a Volt
    with nearly identical performance for a whole crapload more money.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    Car that looks fast but isn’t = “poseur” or poser to
    us domestic types.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:23 pm)

    George S. Bower: Volt SS

    It would have to be a little more than ‘mild’ for me to bite. However, the 154 number sounds pretty good. That’s around a 50% increase in power.

    Now if it had 400lbft of torque….


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:23 pm)

    James: It’s just my opinion – and beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder

    I agree with this part.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:26 pm)

    James:

    GM is now working with BMW to propogate the new SAE Combo chargers. Will
    their efforts pale in comparison to Tesla?

    They are so huge and Tesla so small.
    Tesla just makes them look pathetic.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    Elon outsmarts ‘em all at every turn. He can build a rocket for half the price of NASA and he can build a supercharger for half the price of the SAE combo charger.

    Quite brilliant really,

    just gang together a bunch of Tesla S chargers and make a super charger out of it.

    Need storage for electricity so you don’t get whacked w/ a big overage fee??

    Just put a battery pack from a Tesla in.

    Need some solar panels??

    No problem just get ‘em from Solar City.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:28 pm)

    RobbertPatrison: The ELR has paddles on the steering wheel to control regeneration, on top of the brake pedal to control. I’m not sure I buy that that is a killer feature. How is that different that using the cruise control’s rocker switch in L? Left thumb vs right middle finger I guess.

    It’s quite a bit different. GM discovered that Volt owners like pulling the gear shifter to L when coming into stops or corners. While this does the job, a paddle shifter on the wheel is a much better design.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:29 pm)

    James:

    Plus – I have always been a huge detractor of cars that look fast, but aren’t.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    Yeh, me too.

    I think it’s called:

    “All show and no go.”


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:31 pm)

    James: Bob Lutz and Tony Posawatz commented on how easy it would be to make an
    all electric version of Volt. WHY HAVEN’T THEY?!!!

    Well the Spark EV is out now, and GM has said they are working on a purpose built EV.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:32 pm)

    James: Once a fast-charging infrastructure makes the “range anxiety” argument moot,

    Apparently not, since Elon is talking about battery-swap now.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:35 pm)

    Let’s now ponder cars that don’t especially look fast, but are -
    Like Model S.

    There’s a video on YouTube of two goofy guys in a C6 convertible
    ‘Vette. They drag a Model S and just get left in the weeds! They pull
    up to the next light and just ask for it again – SPANKED twice! At least
    they had a good attitude about it, saying “This guy must be into high
    tech!”. High tech is right – that was a high tech ass whoopin’.

    These are the things of legend. This stuff gets around. It creates mystique
    and awe in ( usually male dorks like us ) car guy circles. To say ANY
    Model S is so much quicker and faster than ELR is an understatement.

    I think Elon Musk Tweets a bit much, but the stock is on a tear, so perhaps
    he’s found a much better form of advertisement for a lot less dough…?

    Model S looks classy and understated, but it’s so fast and capable. In turns,
    it’s a slotcar to ELR’s heavy Cruze with stiffer struts ( “hyper-struts” ). Hey,
    it’s a rear wheel drive car – ’nuff said. Inside the S has football-field-like room!
    Take grandma to dinner, take the wife, kids and even their friends to
    the game! On YouTube, there’s this Norweigen guy hell bent on running an
    American spec Model S out of juice. First, he loads it up with his mountain
    bike, skis, travel suitcases, camera equipment and gear. He gets in and
    starts doing burnouts and doughnuts in the snow! Then he drives 150 miles
    from one city to the next – and makes it, no problem – in the snow! Then
    he explains how a Norwegian spec Tesla will accomplish this task better –
    with more miles to spare because it will have a cold weather package!

    Can you even compare an ELR to that?! I think not.

    RECHARGE! .

    James

    Did I mention the Tesla center screen interface?
    It makes CUE look like the Stone Age.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:37 pm)

    Jim I: I thought ELR was Electric Luxury Roadster

    ELR = How Cadillac does Electric, by Lutz, Robert


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:39 pm)

    Noel Park: In the interest of staying positive, I’ll just leave it at that.

    #45

    Well I guess that didn’t work, LOL.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:41 pm)

    Another really expensive Niche Hybrid?

    So much for supplying a car for the regular Joe. And didn’t they say it was going to be low volume? Why bother?


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:42 pm)

    stuart22: the Volt is simply an engineering masterpiece that transcends negative brand perception.

    #54

    Amen! +1


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    kdawg

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:43 pm)

    James: Plus – I have always been a huge detractor of cars that look fast, but aren’t.

    Like the Toyota Celica.

    Remember these ads?
    Old man
    http://youtu.be/UK3GOFqVSyI
    Dog
    http://youtu.be/0hXGhVbPD8g
    Cop
    http://youtu.be/12CDQ5UlLGU


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    kdawg

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:49 pm)

    James: Did I mention the Tesla center screen interface?

    I like the graphics on the Tesla display, but the screen is too big and it looks like someone used a glue gun to paste an iPad on their dash. Also, for those that complain about the Volt’s capacitive buttons, have fun w/only a touchscreen. I’m Ok w/it, but I know many out there have asked for real buttons, which the ELR has.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:52 pm)

    James: Let’s now ponder cars that don’t especially look fast, but are -
    Like Model S.

    I don’t think the ELR looks like a race car. It looks hi-tech/futuristic to me.

    Regarding cars that don’t look fast but are, I think the Pontiac G8 was probably the most understated one.
    (not counting the White Lightning Datsun)


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    James

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (3:54 pm)

    kdawg: Apparently not, since Elon is talking about battery-swap now.

    OK – so if the “battswap” photo hint is truly a battery swap – and yes, now I can see that it might well be…I still think it’s connected to the hinted fact that some Superchargers will have on-site battery storage. Will the battery storage be in modules that can be quick-swapped? Hmmm….

    Musk tweeting that Shai Agassi got the idea from him kind of outs the “big surprise” June 20.

    BATT SWAP??? ,

    James


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    stuart22

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (4:10 pm)

    kdawg: It’s quite a bit different.GM discovered that Volt owners like pulling the gear shifter to L when coming into stops or corners.While this does the job, a paddle shifter on the wheel is a much better design.

    I haven’t seen and am still wondering just how the paddle controls will work – if it’s just moving the action of changing one mode to another from the gearshift lever to a paddle, then it’s not the big deal I was hoping.

    It will be a big deal if only the strength of regen is variable rather than fixed within its particular L or D mode. If my wishes come true, the strength of regen will vary from mild to strong depending on how much ‘pull’ – soft, harder, hard, etc. – a driver gives the paddle.

    Assuming my wish comes true, it’s going to make driving really fun in rolling terrain, taking curves at speed, cruising down boulevards with periodic interruptions in flow, etc. The more I can use my hands while keeping them at the wheel to control things the better.


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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (4:14 pm)

    James:

    Better Place has proven the battery swap model to be non-sustainable.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    Yeh but that doesn’t mean that Elon can’t make it happen.


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    Darius

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (4:18 pm)

    This time I will say nothing in order not to offend some of you. There is no tast standard in the world.


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    Streetlight

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (4:35 pm)

    One super ELR video. Imagine being able to watch Jay Leno a full 15 minutes with ELR’s chief designer and chief engineer. My hamburger/steak metaphor for VOLT is a ‘New York Steak’ and the ELR is the ‘Fillet’.

    So finally the discussion gets to its power-train. Which takes all of no more than 23 seconds. Didn’t I hear a slight lament in the Chief Engineer’s discourse — did he say “Its just enough for what’s required” — Wait a sec— Leno drives a top of the line Caddy, 500+ hp. The People rest: The decision to use that 1.4 was made by a bean-counter — period.

    Its time for GM’s marketing to put their foot down. This is really a most sophisticated I.D. (Industrial design) with a “just enough” power-train?! And GM’s sitting right on top of a world-class award winning 2.0 turbo — good grief.


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    James

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (4:39 pm)

    kdawg: I like the graphics on the Tesla display, but the screen is too big and it looks like someone used a glue gun to paste an iPad on their dash.Also, for those that complain about the Volt’s capacitive buttons, have fun w/only a touchscreen.I’m Ok w/it, but I know many out there have asked for real buttons, which the ELR has.

    I agree with you about the S’s 17″ flat screen looking a bit incongruous on the otherwise
    flowing dashboard. I don’t think it looks “pasted on”, but rather, dominates it’s space.
    I’ve played around with it enough to see it’s genius though – again, function over form.
    Look for OLEDs to take this to another level, as they can be curved and fashioned
    in a much more harmonious way. Ergonomically, I think the 17″ screen works well.
    Perhaps a few more functions could have traditional push buttons just in case the
    screen fails to work. To me, the size of it just makes it, the always-on backup camera,
    the Google Maps in a size I don’t need glasses to see….It works, man.

    I think touchscreen controls are here to stay. Ever fiddled with BMW, Lexus, Mercedes
    and Infinity’s blasted dial remote interfaces? Yuck! You’d think they would have seen
    how clumsy and detached those processes were a long time ago. Guess not….

    The ability for OLEDs to wrap around you mean some pret-ty unbelievably futuristic
    dashboard/user-interfaces in the years to come. With Tesla leading the new-age
    charge – I’d look to them to be on the cutting edge as these technologies develop.

    BATT MAN AINT ROBBIN’! ( like Big Oil does ) ,

    James


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (4:55 pm)

    James: Musk tweeting that Shai Agassi got the idea from him kind of outs the “big surprise” June 20.

    #79

    There’s a pair to draw to, LOL.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (5:01 pm)

    James: Tesla Superchargers are going up like weeds.

    #58

    Really? Where? Are there any here in the L.A., Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, Ventura, county megalopolis, population 14 MILLION plus? If so I haven’t seen them. Of course I’m not looking that hard, LOL.

    Edit: The latest Tesla press release I can find shows 8 in the United States including 6 in California. There is 1 (one) in the aforementioned megalopolis. Not very convenient, and hardly like weeds IMHO.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (5:24 pm)

    Noel Park,
    LOL. What has James been smoking? :-)

    More weeds appear in spring, wait until next year.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (6:14 pm)

    Mark Z:
    Noel Park,
    LOL. What has James been smoking?

    The same stuff you are Mark Z.

    (Sorry couldn’t resist after yesterdays comment to you about that)


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (6:20 pm)

    Streetlight:

    And GM’s sitting right on top of a world-class award winning 2.0 turbo — good grief.

    Just putting a 2 liter turbo in this thing isn’t going to make it fast.

    It all has to do w/ how the power train works. During heavy accels whether Voltec is in EV or ER mode, if you put your foot into it it reverts to single motor. The main traction motor is where all the get up and go comes from. It also has a 3.2/1 gear ration vs 1.5 thru MGA.

    If you want the thing to go fast you juice up the traction motor first.


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    volt11

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (6:48 pm)

    I wonder if the right people at GM read this forum. Because it should be plain by now that, this being congregation that ELR is preached to, the car is pretty much bombing.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:11 pm)

    volt11:
    I wonder if the right people at GM read this forum. Because it should be plain by now that, this being congregation that ELR is preached to, the car is pretty much bombing.

    I think GM is off doing other stuff,,,,like making money which is what they HAVE to do. They spent a big chunk on Voltec,,It’s working really well and they are busy (you know like pick ups and stuff). So I guess that’s OK. I forgive them.

    They should hire me.

    I could fix the Volt with a very low cost development program.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:13 pm)

    George S. Bower,

    A turbo engine has such a wide torque band, I’m thinking after maybe 50 or 60 mph, you could completely lock up MGA and B and have some really nice acceleration from there on just from the engine. Especially if the engine was GM’s 270 horse turbo- with balance shafts I would hope-.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:19 pm)

    Greg Simpson:
    I can’t believe how much they go on and on about the vertical headlights or the tail fin emulating rear lights, and how all this is suitable for a Cadillac.Yuck!Based on looks only I’d rather have a Leaf, as it makes better use of space.

    Wow, something that makes finally me feel that going to design school was worth it after all.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:26 pm)

    kdawg: It’s quite a bit different.GM discovered that Volt owners like pulling the gear shifter to L when coming into stops or corners.While this does the job, a paddle shifter on the wheel is a much better design.

    That’s one way to do it. Modulating the go pedal in L does the same thing for me.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:31 pm)

    Eco_Turbo:
    George S. Bower,

    A turbo engine has such a wide torque band, I’m thinking after maybe 50 or 60 mph, you couldcompletely lock up MGA and B and have some really nice acceleration from there on just from the engine. Especially if the engine was GM’s 270 horse turbo- with balance shafts I would hope-.

    I hope not!

    The future Volt and ELR must become a true BEV when the battery range passes 200 miles. Then GM can remove the ICE and add more battery up front under the hood, and more under the rear seat where the gas tank was.

    Raymond


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:52 pm)

    Raymondjram,

    Don’t worry, it should still have most, if not all the current AER, for when gas was scarce, or you felt like being economical.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (7:54 pm)

    jeffhre: Wow, something that makes finally me feel that going to design school was worth it after all.

    #93

    Well there’s no accounting for “taste”, LOL. +1

    I’m the furthest thing in the world from a design school graduate, and I’m not as shrill about the “looks” of the Leaf as some here. The best I can say for it is that it’s a slightly face lifted Versa and that the face lift failed (can anyone say Joan Rivers, hahaha).

    The operative word is “blah” IMHO.


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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (8:21 pm)

    Eco_Turbo,

    ECO,
    It just doesn’t work from a TRANSMISSION point of view.

    Even though the Volt has both a mechanical link AND an electric motor link doesn’t mean they are additive.

    Like I said before.

    The way you hot rod the Voltec drivetrain is thru the TRACTION motor not the ICE.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (8:41 pm)

    George S. Bower,

    I’m glad you used the word “and” and not “+”. I’ve been excited about the Voltec drive ever since I found out about the extra clutch, allowing engine participation, years ago.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (8:52 pm)

    Eco_Turbo:
    George S. Bower,

    I’m glad you used the word “and” and not “+”. I’ve been excited about the Voltec drive ever since I found out about the extra clutch, allowing engine participation, years ago.

    The engine link efficiency part of it happens.

    The get up and go part happens thru the traction motor.


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    rdunniii

     

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (9:05 pm)

    George S. Bower: total system power is a misnomer.
    You can’t add the ICE and electric. The Voltec power train doesn’t work that way.

    so how are they coming up with 154 Kw???
    The traction motor is rated at 134 Kw max??

    Maybe this is why they don’t want to call it Voltec.

    Clutch the ring gear off or near off the line to the ICE and play with the pressures in the torque damper and draw from the battery for both MGA and MGB. That’s how the guys getting the sub 6 sec 0-60 are doing it today.

    Cadillac has even said to think of the additional power as similar to CS mode only adding the two together.

    I hope not!
    The future Volt and ELR must become a true BEV when the battery range passes 200 miles. Then GM can remove the ICE and add more battery up front under the hood, and more under the rear seat where the gas tank was.

    Raymond

    Exactly!


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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 18th, 2013 (9:35 pm)

    rdunniii:

    Clutch the ring gear off or near off the line to the ICE and play with the pressures in the torque damper and draw from the battery for both MGA and MGB.That’s how the guys getting the sub 6 sec 0-60 are doing it today.

    Groovy dude.

    I think I can say that most people that own a Volt don’t like it when the ICE comes on.

    Do you own a Volt? …I suspect not.

    The Volt is an EV.

    You make it fast by making it a faster EV..not by revving up the engine and dumping the clutch…….which you can’t do anyway.


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (10:09 pm)

    George S. Bower,

    Put a Spark EV traction motor in the front and rear. Then fill the space in between with batteries.

    Zoom!


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    Jun 18th, 2013 (10:43 pm)

    kdawg:
    George S. Bower,

    Put a Spark EV traction motor in the front and rear.Then fill the space in between with batteries.

    Zoom!

    please kdawg, it’s a Spark EV Co axial gearbox.

    but yes great idea.!!!


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    Mark Z

     

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    Jun 19th, 2013 (12:21 am)

    LOL. What has James been smoking?
    George S. Bower: The same stuff you are Mark Z. (Sorry, couldn’t resist after yesterdays comment to you about that).

    Thanks for the heads up George. I just responded to yesterday’s comment on the other thread. The only pot I use is to cook in. Apologies to James too. He will get the last laugh when free cross-country charging is available by Christmas or early next year.


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    Scott

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    Jun 19th, 2013 (7:45 am)

    I love the design but the price is just ridiculous for what you get. If I were in that market I’d just buy a Tesla instead, so much more value for your dollar than a gussied up Volt.

    Heck, would prefer a Volt for daily driver, and Tesla for the shorter trips and weekends out.


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    Unni

     

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    Jun 19th, 2013 (9:20 am)

    Look on other companies and how they do. Benz etc always brings lower Cd cars even if its large one ( some thing like .25 ).

    I would have appreciated them if they had a Cd of say .24 level.
    ELR seems qualifies max for a Buick but for sure not for a Cadillac ( Cadillac has to stretch the envelope )