May 14

The Volt is the only Voltec, says GM

 

My apologies to you all for having missed this story that was published almost a month ago. Aside from the news that Car & Driver says the Cadillac ELR is one of 25 cars worth waiting for, this is the best GM E-REV news I could find, and worth noting …

Will the Chevy Volt be the only Voltec vehicle ever produced? While some of you have mentioned the “CrossVolt,” GM is not talking about that, and as for the Cadillac ELR, GM says it will not classify it as Voltec.

2014-Cadillac-ELR-018-medium
 

“The propulsion system is shared with Volt. We are building on that proven technology, with 200 million miles (so far) of real-world driving,” said Don Butler, Cadillac’s marketing Vice President to Autoblog Green at the Detroit Auto Show. “But we will not call it ‘Voltec,’ and there are differences in calibration and tuning. It will have a bit more performance, we’ll go a little deeper into the battery’s capacity, and a feature we call “Regen on Demand” will let you control regenerative braking with steering-wheel paddles

Butler did not say what GM is calling the Cadillac E-REV that others have identified as nearly a re-skinned Volt with some tweaks, but there you have it. It is not a Voltec variant.

Nor is GM expecting to sell these in bunches like bananas.

“It will probably not be anyone’s primary vehicle. It will be a second, third, maybe even fourth vehicle in the household. We are not after volume with this car, not looking for hundreds of thousands of sales,” said Butler. “That’s not what this car is about. but it will definitely appeal to design enthusiasts and people who tend to be trendsetters within their spheres of influence and circles of friends. We’re looking for those few discerning individuals because they are very important to Cadillac as a brand. Some of our best marketing and advertising will show this car driving down the street, creating a bold presence for Cadillac.”

That said, unlike Gen-1 Volt, GM says the ELR will make money for the company.

“From a financial standpoint, I would say we are very happy about how we have planned this out,” said Butler. “The more we sell, the more we’ll make, and those issues of battery cost and capacity will change as time goes on. We’ll have the choice of either taking cost out to get the same capability from a less expensive system, or taking mass out to lower its weight.”

2014-Cadillac-ELR-021-medium
 

The ELR will have 35 miles AER, it’s down a notch on the Volt’s aerodynamic profile, may sell in the $60,000 range but that has yet to be announced.

Also waiting to be seen is whether Cadillac will build any more E-REVs or whether it will build EVs. Butler was asked this, and replied as follows:

“Nothing that I can talk about now, but I can tell you that this will not be our only alternative propulsion system,” he said nebulously of powertrains that could include eAssist, or some other hybrid form. “In terms of electric-supplemented drive, there is more coming. We are looking at this as a long-term journey, so alternative propulsion will continue to be important to GM and to the Cadillac brand. Another full EREV? I can’t say. But I don’t see a pure EV on the near-term horizon for Cadillac.”

Autoblog Green

This entry was posted on Tuesday, May 14th, 2013 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 108


  1. 1
    James McQuaid

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    May 14th, 2013 (6:49 am)

    Cadillac’s unwillingness to call this a Voltec is a branding issue pure and simple. This is a consequence of not having slapped down the Volt baiters directly and by name (i.e. Limbaugh, Cavuto, Romney, et al).

    G.M. needs to wake up to the fact that it is living in a very bad and dangerous neighborhood. When you aren’t willing to stand up to the bully, you will continue to be bullied.

    Don’t expect the smears and sabotage to end with the Volt.


  2. 2
    Tim Hart

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    May 14th, 2013 (7:48 am)

    The front end configuration looks pretty Voltec to me!


  3. 3
    Raymondjram

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    May 14th, 2013 (7:55 am)

    Maybe GM is not willing to talk about the “CrossVolt”. I have learned by past experience that GM doesn’t want to offer “vaporware” (a term coined from the computer industry for a pre-production announcement that doesn’t exist yet) until they have a final production order, and have at least one test vehicle running as a “mule” on American roads. So there may be a Captiva with the EREV drivetrain inside (just like they did with a Malibu mule for the Volt) running around, and if all the test pass their qualifications, then someone at GM will give the go-ahead and we will see a real CrossVolt EREV CUV at the auto shows.

    Go, GM!

    Raymond


  4. 4
    volt11

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:00 am)

    Who do they think they’re kidding? Whatever they call it, it’s 99% identical to Voltec. Just reinforces to me that GM has its head in the clouds when it comes to the ELR.

    “unlike Gen-1 Volt, GM says the ELR will make money for the company.”

    They’ll only make money on it if they sell. Remains to be seen.


  5. 5
    BAZINGA

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:10 am)

    Maybe GM should have named it something non-model specific instead of VOLTtec. I can see them wanting to put some distance between a Chevy and Cadillac. That I believe was GM’s error in the first place, naming a powertrain after a model.

    But what do I know?


  6. 6
    Jim I

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:11 am)

    Until I see what is in store for the Gen-2 Volt, I just see the ELR as a way for GM not to lose money on the technology they have developed.

    As far as the name? They can call it “squirrel cage” for all I care. But anyone with even half a brain can see that it is based on the Volt. Sure it has been modified for Caddy specs, but it is in no way a complete re-design. This is all spin to keep the Caddy buyers happy to spend $60K – $80K instead of $40K for a Volt.

    I tell everyone that I will never go back to a standard ICE based car. I would like for my next one to be the MPV5/CrossVolt for my wife. But if not, GM will lose me to a manufacturer that does build what I want. Are you listening GM? We are the people that told you we wanted you to build the Volt, and put our money down when you built it. We will do that again.

    I really liked it better when GM was open about what they were doing with Voltec…………..

    JMHO

    C-5277


  7. 7
    Charlie H

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:13 am)

    Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Trust us, it’s a cow.


  8. 8
    kdawg

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:23 am)

    “there are differences in calibration and tuning. It will have a bit more performance, we’ll go a little deeper into the battery’s capacity”
    ————-
    This is the first I’ve read this. Explains how they are shaving 1 second off the 0-60mph time. I wonder if there are any hardware differences. This also explains why GM is only planning to sell 1000-2000 of these. It sounds like they are testing some new things out.


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    shannonvolt

     

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:26 am)

    The ELR is only a price hike of the Chevy Volt. I don’t believe GM is fooling anyone on this board. The misinformed buyers will be the ones taking the bait. And yes, its a Voltec Cadillac!!


  10. 10
    Dick The Bruiser

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:38 am)

    G.M. should continue to tinker with the ELR until the performance specs are as good or better than the Tesla Model S.


  11. 11
    maggiesfarm

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:40 am)

    I said it yesterday, and I feel it more today. I think GM is bailing on Voltec/EREV’s. We should be hearing about steps being taken for the technology migrating to other models by now. Wish I thought otherwise.


  12. 12
    Nelson

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:43 am)

    Maybe they’ll want to go back to calling it E-Flex.

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


  13. 13
    kdawg

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:45 am)

    shannonvolt: The ELR is only a price hike of the Chevy Volt. I don’t believe GM is fooling anyone on this board. The misinformed buyers will be the ones taking the bait. And yes, its a Voltec Cadillac!!

    Not quite. It has 58 more HP, 1 sec faster 0-60mph time, the CUE system w/new interior, LED headlamps, regen-on-demand paddles, HiPer Strut front suspension, Watts link rear suspension and Continuous Damping Control, Bose sound system, 8″ display vs. 7″, 20″ wheels, etc…

    Is it based on the Volt, yes, but it’s not just a price increase w/an emblem change.


  14. 14
    kdawg

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:50 am)

    Dick The Bruiser: G.M. should continue to tinker with the ELR until the performance specs are as good or better than the Tesla Model S.

    It would be interesting if GM could find a place to put 85kWh of battery somewhere, keep the RE, and still hold the price @ $75k. Would take some whip cracking, $ and time, but I bet it would compete nicely w/Telsa and the other high-ends that Tesla is stealing sales from now.


  15. 15
    Dick The Bruiser

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    May 14th, 2013 (8:59 am)

    Here’s an idea to reclaim the Volt brand (and muzzle the maggots):

    Yesterday, I went to the theatre and saw Iron Man 3. Throughout the video/movie trailers that preceded the showing of Iron Man 3 were Mazda advertisements – a pretty heavy dose of Mazda ads.

    It is known that the Oscar winning actress Jennifer Lawrence drives a Volt. As the heroine in the upcoming Hunger Games: Mockingjay movie, Lawrence should be featured in Volt video/movie trailer advertisements placed (in theatre) at the beginning of the compelling film. This will convey the spirit portrayed in the film to the car.


  16. 16
    BAZINGA

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:09 am)

    kdawg: Not quite. It has 58 more HP, 1 sec faster 0-60mph time, the CUE system w/new interior, LED headlamps, regen-on-demand paddles, HiPer Strut front suspension, Watts link rear suspension and Continuous Damping Control, Bose sound system, 8″ display vs. 7″, 20″ wheels, etc…Is it based on the Volt, yes, but it’s not just a price increase w/an emblem change.

    It will also have a HUD and possibly cooled seats. So there is much more going on than a BADGE. I have a CTS-V coupe that I love, and if I still am employeed next year I will trade it in a ELR.


  17. 17
    kdawg

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:16 am)

    Dick The Bruiser: Yesterday, I went to the theatre and saw Iron Man 3.

    When I saw it, I chuckled when the Audi E-tron made a loud revving sound as Tony Stark drove off. Seems like the sound engineers could have come up w/a cool EV sound. (yes I know the RE could have been running if it was in RE mode)

    The E-tron was shown on at least 3 different occasions in the movie, including it getting destroyed. I don’t recall the ads before the movie.


  18. 18
    James

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:18 am)

    Hello – my name is James, and I am a GM-Voltaholic. There, I said it! :)

    “I must be totally an addict”, I thought to myself, as I picked
    up my Amazon Kindle at 5:00 AM, not being able to sleep, and while
    lying in bed, half awake – I go to GM-Volt.com! And if that’s not bad
    enough, I can’t stand reading this article without giving a response…I toss
    and turn, so here it is, 5:55am on the left coast and I’m here at the PC
    responding…..

    GM has to stop the halo car mentality! Hundreds of millions of
    dollars in Cadillac ads showing a car the public cannot buy – or won’t –
    because it’s a toy that has no real logical reason to exist! Yeah, we
    get that it’s “Voltec” but they don’t want Chevy association….yada, yada…
    What kills me is GM’s halo car mentality. It’s like “Hello McFly – 1950 is
    dead and gone!” If GM put even half the engineers now working on pie-in-the
    sky halo projects down-to-earth and working on Voltec ( or whatever the hell
    they decide to call them ) variants – they’d be showing Toyota and Ford the door!
    Today we have ZL-1 Camaro, ZR-1 Corvette, SS rebadged Holden and ELR, the
    list is growing.

    GM doesn’t have a decent hybrid in it’s inventory. It’s a major hole in their line,
    and it’s glaring. Nobody really predicts them licensing HSD, and 2-Mode is
    a big cow dump in the road. Tons of Volt project managers and engineers have
    been let go, or repositioned to work on other vital projects, like Opel, or
    Chinese Chevrolets – so Voltec seems like yesterday’s news over at the General.

    The bigger and squarer that fullsized Silverados, Tahoes and Escalades get, the
    more I think they’ve lost their bloomin’ minds over at GM. We know those are
    the current cash cows, we get it, folks. What we don’t get is GM’s myopic view
    of the future. It has kicked them in the butt in the past, and the near-sighted
    beancounters have run GM into bankruptcy in the past. Drawing folks into a
    dealership with slick ads and halo cars to switch them over to something else
    is nonsense. MAKE IT STOP! MAKE IT STOP! Look around GM – Look what is
    working for Toyota and Ford.

    Lastly, on other websites, it’s mentioned that Elon Musk has not dropped that
    silly idea of building an EV pickup truck. HALLELULIAH! This is the kind of
    stuff that makes everyone at the domestic brands listen. THIS IS THEIR BREAD
    and BUTTER! Hit them with a better truck, and them’s fightin’ words. I know at
    this point it’s fantasy, but the fullsized truck being the number one selling platform,
    someone has to literally shame the big 3 ( GM, Ford and Toyota ) into moving
    forward and making the vehicles we really need and want.

    Spend the hundreds of millions in research and development – NOT TV spots using halos we really know are icing, and not cake!

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  19. 19
    kdawg

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:21 am)

    BAZINGA: I have a CTS-V coupe that I love, and if I still am employeed next year I will trade it in a ELR.

    I wonder which dealers will have it made available to them, and if they have spent the $15k to be able to sell it/service it?


  20. 20
    George S. Bower

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:25 am)

    maggiesfarm:
    I said it yesterday, and I feel it more today. I think GM is bailing on Voltec/EREV’s. We should be hearing about steps being taken for the technology migrating to other models by now. Wish I thought otherwise.

    I agree. I am so totally disappointed in GM. They really don’t have a clue as to what direction to go. Let’s see: 2 mode truck oops that didn’t work. I know lets try a 2 mode saturn SUV. Nahhh let’s kill that one it’s too good of an idea. I know let’s do Voltec. Shoot that didn’t work out. We better not expand that product line. I know. How about a really cheap Hybrid….e-assist. Hmmmm darn too expensive and no one wants it.

    Just give up.

    Oh well gas prices are coming down and the IEA predicts the US will be a big exporter of oil in the next decade.

    I know let’s just make gas cars like we always have!!


  21. 21
    George S. Bower

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:32 am)

    James quote:

    “GM doesn’t have a decent hybrid in it’s inventory. It’s a major hole in their line,
    and it’s glaring. Nobody really predicts them licensing HSD, and 2-Mode is
    a big cow dump in the road.”

    Yup. Keep pumpin’ out them big square pickups GM!!!


  22. 22
    James

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:34 am)

    One obvious correlation is the history of the Prius and Volt.

    Toyota did the exact same thing – not focusing on a whole line of Prii,
    but just a much better 2nd generation Prius. When they came out
    with Prius-v2 it changed the world. 1987, first Prius barely was a blip
    on the radar. Toyota lost tons of cash developing it, and many thought
    they were stark raving mad to do so. Well, today we see that they believed
    in it’s future, and were proven very right. GM could show the world the same
    thing with Voltec.

    The similarities between Prius and Volt history continue. Seems GM is focused
    on 2nd gen Volt being a better Volt – more of what a mass-appeal PHEV would
    look like. That’s fine – but why not see what ended up being an entire line of
    Prii – and just engineer that into reality now for 2nd gen Voltec???? Why
    painstakingly build gen 2 and then wait to see if it takes off? If you’re confident
    in the platform – FLAUNT IT. Flaunt it in CUVs. trucks and cars we can afford.
    Back to Prius history – once the Highlander HSD, Lexus HSDs, Camry HSD,
    and all other HSDs hit the market, the expense of their NIMH battery packs
    and all that Prius R&D began paying it’s debts back.

    Why can’t GM see this? Why the single-minded approach and insane preoccupation
    with costs?

    Spread the costs into many models and watch them disappear into profitability.

    RECHARGE! ,
    James


  23. 23
    xiaowei1

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:34 am)

    If this is not meant to be a voltec with a new coating it should be a reinvention of the base concept; otherwise its a tweaked Voltec (which seems more accurate). admittedly, the coating is nothing like the volt, but the underlying tech certainly is.

    I was expecting a more beefed up car with a bigger electric motor. its electric, it should be pulling 7 seconds, not 8. After all, it is now at a price point competing in the low end Model S; and the Model S is really making a good name for itself.

    Also GM has to fight back a bit more with regards to self-serving politicians/media trying to put down the Volt just to sensationalise a their position; the car is simply amazing. If GM can drop 10k off the price, the Volt will surely take off and become more main stream (provided the subsidy remains in place too).

    I’d have one now if it was not for the 60k+on roads price tag in Australia.


  24. 24
    Jackson

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:38 am)

    “Nothing that I can talk about now, but I can tell you that this will not be our only alternative propulsion system,” he said nebulously of powertrains that could include eAssist, or some other hybrid form. “In terms of electric-supplemented drive, there is more coming. We are looking at this as a long-term journey, so alternative propulsion will continue to be important to GM … “</i<

    Interesting, considering much of our discussion yesterday. Sounds like they intend to ‘fill the gap.’


  25. 25
    James

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:47 am)

    We have all known that person, or read the stories of people who just get
    something in their craw, and don’t see the forest for all the trees? Well, that’s
    GM.

    You know the person who really cannot sing, but they buy lessons, spend tons
    of time practicing, and in the end – they still cannot sing? Perhaps they are
    better at it than when they first attempted, but it’s obvious to everyone else that
    they have other talents but they just are blind to what they’re really good at.

    GM looks at Toyota and Ford and follows. They see Ford raking it the big bucks
    with F-150 so they spend billions trying to build a better F-150. Does it sell as
    many as Ford does? No. But darn, they just keep letting Ford right the playbook.
    Look at Malibu. Wow – Toyota sure sells a lot of Camrys, we gotta make us some
    Camry-like cars….So Malibu keeps flopping, and ending up on rental car lots
    en-masse…. This latest Malibu had to be a homerun – with Altima and Fusion and
    Sonata nipping at Camry’s tail….gee, let’s make a GRRREAT Malibu! – And what
    they did was a butt-ugly car with Camaro-ish taillights and a TOO SMALL BACK SEAT!
    This is shameful. It’s not selling well. Who knew?

    I’m not bashing the kid who can’t sing. He has other talents that could outshine
    them all! He built VOLT. WOW! – He stuck his neck out and built an EREV! So
    do that! SO DO THAT THING THAT YOU CAN DO – AND NOT TRY TO FOLLOW
    EVERYONE ELSE! Voltec could save GM – If they absorbed costs now and just
    went for it. If Voltec drivetrains made their way first into trucks, then into CUVs,
    you know – the models that sell? If they spread it out – the costs would become
    mountains of gold for GM.

    If that kid who can’t sing could just realize they could make a really great
    hamburger…..

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  26. 26
    Jackson

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    May 14th, 2013 (9:52 am)

    When introduced, the “Voltec” name was said to refer to the underlying technology, across future models and revisions. Looks like they have changed their minds; and if so, what ‘generic’ reference will replace it?

    maggiesfarm,

    George S. Bower,

    James,

    When the Volt was first being developed, GM was extremely candid about details of planning and technology. Sometime after release to dealers, GM announced to this site that details of further development would not be as forthcoming.

    There is cause for concern, but it is probably too soon to hold the memorial service.


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    taser54

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    May 14th, 2013 (10:03 am)

    Sheesh, by reading all these posts one would conclude that this was a GM bashing site. Chill people.


  28. 28
    Jackson

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    May 14th, 2013 (10:09 am)

    taser54,

    We can beat up our little brother, but woe be unto anyone else who tries. ;-)


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    Steve-o

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    May 14th, 2013 (10:15 am)

    “In terms of electric-supplemented drive, there is more coming. We are looking at this as a long-term journey, so alternative propulsion will continue to be important to GM and to the Cadillac brand. Another full EREV? I can’t say. But I don’t see a pure EV on the near-term horizon for Cadillac.”

    This quote starts out sounding hopeful, but ends sounding like their direction is toward less electric rather than more. They are waffling on EREV and sounding like they will add e-assist to everything. I hope that’s not what they are doing, because it would be a guaranteed complete failure. I hope Volt 2.0 is compelling. With limited improvement in recharge time, the market for EREV will not go away until it’s hard to find gas stations. I hate to say it, but it’s time to start looking at what is coming next from Ford.

    GM may be the next Wright brothers, who invented flying and then wasted time instead of building better aircraft. The government finally had to pressure them to stop litigating against companies that were building better designs, so they could develop airplanes for World War I.

    BEVs are nice and they are the future, but the EREV can be everyman’s car today. I hope GM stops shuffling engineers away from EREV development.


  30. 30
    George S. Bower

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    May 14th, 2013 (10:17 am)

    Jackson:

    GM announced to this site that details of further development would not be as forthcoming.

    That’s because there are no further developments forthcoming.


  31. 31
    James

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    May 14th, 2013 (10:18 am)

    taser54:
    Sheesh, by reading all these posts one would conclude that this was a GM bashing site.Chill people.

    I think this is a Volt fansite, and not necessarily a GM fansite. People here
    are understandably passionate about Voltec and EREVs. When GM acts like the
    old GM, people will comment.

    I think the open discussion here, from folks who genuinely want GM to succeed
    is healthy and encouraging.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  32. 32
    Jim I

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    May 14th, 2013 (10:22 am)

    taser54:
    Sheesh, by reading all these posts one would conclude that this was a GM bashing site.Chill people.

    ====================================

    We just expect so much more from the company that did such an amazing job in bringing us the Volt.

    I just pi$$es us off when they make these really dumb statements like “ELR is not Voltec”!!

    C-5277


  33. 33
    DonC

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    May 14th, 2013 (10:30 am)

    James McQuaid: This is a consequence of not having slapped down the Volt baiters directly and by name (i.e. Limbaugh, Cavuto, Romney, et al).

    Or just a marketing message designed to push back against the claim that the ELR is simply a rebadged Volt.

    Thanks to kdawg for mentioning the differences between the Volt and the ELR. For some these will not be a big deal but they are real differences (other than the Bose!).

    I personally think GM is doing this the right way. To begin with, the idea that GM is not doing enough to sell Volts is misplaced. They are definitely trying to market the Volt. The leasing and pricing specials should tell you that. I don’t agree with the chosen approach — not sure if there is one actually — but they are definitely working on it. I think the bigger issue is at the dealer levels. GM can’t sell cars because of restrictive state laws. It can only sell cars to dealers, and the lack of interest on the part of many dealers is palpable. Some get it but many don’t.

    Part of why I’m so sanguine may be a function of where I live. I can’t go for a five or ten minute drive without seeing another Volt. So in my world there is progress. In most places maybe not so much. But I’m not sure how much of this is really GM’s fault. I was with a bunch of folks for a few weeks and for these very outdoor types there was more interest in Airstream Sprinters than electric cars.

    I think GM is actually going about this the right way. Unlike the current platform, the new D2XX platform was designed to accommodate electric vehicles. The advantages of cost and weight savings, along with packaging advantages offered by the platform, should, when combined with advances in battery technology, produce a more compelling Volt, ELR, and EREV CUV. With that coming, I don’t see the advantage of pushing on the string of current Volt sales.

    As for the ELR and 0-60 times, I think people who think those times matter don’t understand luxury. Luxury is not about 0-60 times or technology. It’s about comfort, ride, smooth handling, and a dash of quirky entertainment.


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    taser54

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    May 14th, 2013 (10:36 am)

    James,

    Sorry but the comments ignore the public commitment by GM to the Gen 2 volt. That’s is hardly the old GM. Here, we have Cadillac pursue a limited edition model using a tweaked platform-which will make GM money- and Volt fans bash it. Here, we have most announcements made by GM met with a “not good enough” attitude. Seriously, some people are acting like Veruca Salt-wanting everything NOW. Enjoy what you own NOW, and let GM push forward with the Gen 2 Volt. GM beats everything on the market with the GEN 1, now let them do it again.


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    May 14th, 2013 (10:38 am)

    George S. Bower: That’s because there are no further developments forthcoming.

    Wow, that’s pretty negative; and not even a “perhaps.”

    In fact, there was a fascinating glimpse into things to come, before the curtain fell, in an article here looking ahead to Gen III. A new kind of battery (ceramic-based) would be both less expensive and much more resistant to heat and cold. It would be smaller for the same energy storage, allowing full seating and good trunk space. There were other details that I cannot recall now. Sure, subsequent decisions and events may have changed this, but I still think it’s too soon for a funeral. Should we stage a prayer vigil? Perhaps.

    Could be we’re all getting a bit crabby during the lack of real GM EREV news? (Can’t use “Voltec” anymore — sigh).


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    May 14th, 2013 (10:39 am)

    If it’s not your primary car and maybe your 3rd or 4th vehicle, it seems sort of irrational to even bother. If you can spend $60+ for your 3rd or 4th car doesn’t seem likely the economics or environmental issues are important to you.

    Sure hope GM is also working on stuff the rest of us might purchase.


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    May 14th, 2013 (10:40 am)

    Jackson,

    Fill it… when? And, if not with Voltec, fill it with what? Are they going to spend another billion bucks developing something else? The Volt took 4 years… if they start over, they won’t have something until 2017, unless they’ve been very uncharacteristically silent on the project.

    I find GM absolutely maddening. There’s some thought here that I’m hostile to GM. This is not the case. But it drives me absolutely crazy, that GM has effectively ceded the “electrification” market to Toyota and now Ford, for a decade, with missteps and half-efforts.

    Toyota still owns 2/3 of the HV market. Ford has grabbed the next biggest chunk by offering some serious competition. GM does move some units but they’re low-effect BAS cars, for the most part, and don’t do much to reduce fuel consumption.

    GM leapfrogged into the plug-in market and they’ve already fallen to 3rd place. They may rebound to 2nd or even 1st but they’re not going to dominate this market in a way that justifies the money spent on the Volt program.

    More worrisome still, from the perspective of any GM stockholder/stakeholder, Toyota and Ford are collaborating on an HV system for trucks. This has the potential to be a death blow for GM, which gets much of its profits from trucks. If Ford and Toyota can develop a cost-effective system that really reduces fuel consumption (and they both have a track record for success), this would give them a huge advantage in truck sales and would have the potential to dramatically reduce GM’s profits, as GM will have to cut price to maintain volume in the face of a clear operating cost advantage.


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    May 14th, 2013 (10:53 am)

    Charlie H: Fill it… when? And, if not with Voltec, fill it with what? Are they going to spend another billion bucks developing something else? The Volt took 4 years…

    RTFA.

    More than what’s said by GM is only speculation.

    … must … resist … negativism …


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    May 14th, 2013 (11:02 am)

    Jackson: When introduced, the “Voltec” name was said to refer to the underlying technology, across future models and revisions.Looks like they have changed their minds; and if so, what ‘generic’ reference will replace it?

    maggiesfarm,

    George S. Bower,

    James,

    When the Volt was first being developed, GM was extremely candid about details of planning and technology.Sometime after release to dealers, GM announced to this site that details of further development would not be as forthcoming.

    There is cause for concern, but it is probably too soon to hold the memorial service.

    So pan ahead a half decade, hundreds of automotive accolades and awards, tens of thousands of Volts sold, and key members of the development staff either retired…(spun off) or pilfered by rival car companies for their own development. Any wonder they are being tight lipped?


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    May 14th, 2013 (11:10 am)

    Bobc: So pan ahead a half decade, hundreds of automotive accolades and awards, tens of thousands of Volts sold, and key members of the development staff either retired…(spun off) or pilfered by rival car companies for their own development.

    This is the thing which most disturbs me; but the whole story isn’t known. All of you just hold your horses for a little longer.

    Prayer vigil, anyone?


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    May 14th, 2013 (11:44 am)

    Jackson,

    I don’t think I’m speculating unfairly.

    GM is all about concept cars, advanced drivetrain announcements and pre-production press releases. HyWire was big for a while… never materialized. They talked up the EV-1 for a long time before it debuted. The Volt got huge pre-production press (much of it wrong, misleading and self-contradictory). BAS and Two-Mode were talked up enormously during the initial phase of development. As soon as BAS-I was a disappointment, word began to leak out about BAS-II. The Saturn Vue PHEV was rolled out – and then back. The small Two-Mode drive unit was shown off repeatedly (it was in the Saturn Vue PHEV). They were showing the 2013 Malibu in 2009. GM is always talking about The Next Big Thing.

    When a GM exec says, “Nothing that I can talk about now,” I can’t help but believe it means, “I don’t know what we’re going to do.”

    And the whole message of th ABGreen article is nuts. The ELR absolutely is a Cadillac on top of a Volt chassis. “Regen on Demand” moves a supplemental brake pedal to the steering wheel. The “deeper into the battery” is a minor control change. I’m fairly certain that the extra HP in the ELR simply comes from pushing more current through the existing motors (“deeper into the battery” undoubtedly refers to KW, not KWH).

    It’s a Volt, it’s clearly a Volt and this GM exec is doing his utmost to pretend it’s not and then he gets all mysterious about future plans when they absolutely need some future plans, especially if Voltec isn’t working. Maddening!


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    May 14th, 2013 (11:48 am)

    Charlie H: Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Trust us, it’s a cow.

    Moooo…..hehehehehe
    Moooo…..OMG!, Dmanit!, FTW?!?!?!
    Moooo…..hehehehehe
    Moooo…..OMG!, Dmanit!, FTW?!?!?!

    /Mad Cow Disease…….BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!


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    May 14th, 2013 (11:53 am)

    I almost hate to pile on, but can anyone say Cadillac Cimarron?


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    May 14th, 2013 (11:53 am)

    Dick The Bruiser:

    It is known that the Oscar winning actress Jennifer Lawrence drives a Volt. As the heroine in the upcoming Hunger Games: Mockingjay movie, Lawrence should be featured in Voltvideo/movie trailer advertisements placed (in theatre) at the beginning of the compelling film. This will convey the spirit portrayed in the film to the car.

    The other day, there was a picture on the web of Olivia Munn displaying a wardrobe malfunction. What I noticed more was the car that she was getting out of was a Volt.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/06/olivia-munn-nipples-sweater-photos_n_3223694.html


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    May 14th, 2013 (11:59 am)

    taser54:
    Sheesh, by reading all these posts one would conclude that this was a GM bashing site.Chill people.

    #27

    Good point. +1

    I think it’s just marketing types playing with semantics. What else is new? Move along, nothing to see here.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:05 pm)

    For $2,400.00 more, you can buy a 5 seat Model S: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options

    My guess is the S can probably blow the doors off of the ELR.

    /just guessing though….


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:09 pm)

    DonC @ #33:

    I agree with everything you say, except where you state “They are definitely trying to market the Volt.”

    GM spent over $4.5 Billion in advertising last year. They have ads in all types of media all the time. But there is so little advertising done for the Volt, that it almost looks like they are trying to ignore this vehicle.

    Low cost / no down payment leases are wonderful incentives, but if people don’t know about the car, then they really don’t help to move cars off the lot.

    If GM really wanted to, they could convince us to like tail fins on cars again, by advertising it correctly. And GM knows that advertising works, or else they would save all that money! So why have the ads for the Volt been so sparse and pitiful in their message?

    My opinion? They don’t want to sell cars in volume that lose them money on every sale. I would be willing to bet $5.00 that even before the ELR starts to roll off the line, they will advertise the heck out of it to push demand. Because at $60K – $80K MSRP, they are now making money.

    Pretty simple really.

    JMHO

    C-5277


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:14 pm)

    Jim I: GM spent over $4.5 Billion in advertising last year. They have ads in all types of media all the time. But there is so little advertising done for the Volt, that it almost looks like they are trying to ignore this vehicle.

    Well, Akerson did say they are losing money on every Volt.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:14 pm)

    James: If you’re confident
    in the platform – FLAUNT IT. Flaunt it in CUVs. trucks and cars we can afford.

    James: Spread the costs into many models and watch them disappear into profitability.

    I think this is the solution. More Voltec. Do not reduce the AER. The best part of Voltec is driving gas free. If it was just a hybrid, I never would have bought mine.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:17 pm)

    Let’s start with the obvious. VOLT proved the EREV concept. The VOLT is as relevant today as when launched. Yet VOLT’s approaching its fourth model year. Now MODEL S has opened a pent-up pure upscale EV market opportunity. No one, not M-B, BMW or Ford right now is competitive. While the pure EV MODEL S is full size sedan nonetheless ELR can fit.

    If and only if GM can isolate ELR as its exclusive LX EREV. And the fine tuning suspension and regen features all wave in the breeze, ELR must get that 2.0 turbo or equiv — and go a long ways to define ELR. (A rose by any other name.)

    Case in point. Isn’t it amazing how ubiquitous Mercedes in the U.S. has become. You know 20-30 years ago driving a Mercedes made a statement. That’s no longer true. The brand has diminished itself with small inexpensive cars-they’re all over the place — its no longer a big deal. However, Cadillac has retained its LX image very well. Not only over Mercedes but for other reasons Lincoln too.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:23 pm)

    kdawg: It would be interesting if GM could find a place to put 85kWh of battery somewhere, keep the RE, and still hold the price @ $75k.Would take some whip cracking, $ and time, but I bet it would compete nicely w/Telsa and the other high-ends that Tesla is stealing sales from now.

    I would be impressed if the CUE system just matched Teslas ease of use/efficacy.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:26 pm)

    Is this Debbie Downer day? Did everyone miss their morning cup of coffee and or Prozac? :)

    Because GM is playing it close to their chest this time and not divulging any info on future plans, many here seem to be filling in the blanks with “sky is falling” prognostications. Maybe they cuing up some whoopass and don’t want the competition to know. Maybe they are doing nothing. But I’ll wait for Gen 2 Volt before jumping off a cliff into the wailing sea of despair.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:33 pm)

    Charlie H,

    Really , you know for a fact that the Volt / Cruz cassis will be used for the ELR.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:33 pm)

    Brian C,

    Reportedly, there’s a poster of the Cimarron somewhere in GM HQ with the caption, “Lest We Forget…”

    I got a laugh out of your post but I think the ELR has enough distance that Volt isn’t nearly as similar to the ELR as the Cavalier was to the Cimarron.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:35 pm)

    James: GM looks at Toyota and Ford and follows.

    Disagree. And all car companies evaluate each other’s products.

    James: They see Ford raking it the big bucks
    with F-150 so they spend billions trying to build a better F-150. Does it sell as
    many as Ford does? No. But darn, they just keep letting Ford right the playbook.

    Last I checked GM sells more trucks under Chevy & GMC than the Ford F-series.

    James: This latest Malibu had to be a homerun – with Altima and Fusion and
    Sonata nipping at Camry’s tail….gee, let’s make a GRRREAT Malibu! – And what
    they did was a butt-ugly car with Camaro-ish taillights and a TOO SMALL BACK SEAT!

    And I like the Malibu and think the Camry & Sonata are butt-ugly.. so what?

    James: He stuck his neck out and built an EREV! So
    do that! SO DO THAT THING THAT YOU CAN DO – AND NOT TRY TO FOLLOW
    EVERYONE ELSE!

    Yes, GM needs to expand Voltec, but they can’t give up on the rest of the market at the same time. They need to do both.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:35 pm)

    Bobc,

    It’s a safe bet.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:36 pm)

    Brian C:
    I almost hate to pile on, but can anyone say Cadillac Cimarron?

    Yes so , and you remember what a disaster that was? So can you now see why they would choose to dissociate the Volt and ELR?


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:45 pm)

    Nobody here is fooled about what the ELR is. I’ve also long believed ‘Volt’, which connotes massive political BS, passed how the ‘Corvair’ became a political term a long time ago. GM should kill ‘Voltec’ and ‘Volt’, for marketing. Kudos. Now, about that fancy dual electric motor drive train…

    No one had the product tech to compete with new “Big 3″ member, Tesla, like GM. I heard BMW’s North American chief said a long time ago that GM should have tried Voltec under the Cadillac name, from the start. I’m no GM-fanboy, and they must have figured out by now that it is buyer-secure people going for the Volt. Who else would dare? To squander that because “you’re really gonna like Johnson Controls micro-hybrid” is simply an insane waste, especially when the ATS / CTS are looking so intensely over BMW’s shoulder. They put the technology in the wrong product, but to then mail-in the ELR, with ~35 miles range was like burning future money to try and repair what’s already been spent.

    It looks like customers of 50k-100k cars have nothing in a gulf between 35, and 208 miles of EV range (The I3 is cheaper, and won’t tour). EREV could still win, but not if no one tries.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:45 pm)

    You know, the short-term-memory loss of a lot of you amazes me.

    What did Dan Akerson say in March at CERA? This the CEO, guys. Speaking plainly.

    http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?32449-Akerson-On-200-Mile-Range.

    500,000 electrified GM vehicles on the road by 2017. EV’s with both 100 and 200 miles AER.

    More recently, he said Gen 2 Volts would be $7,000-$10,000 cheaper.

    The CEO drives a Volt. A bunch of the engineers drive Volts. GM monitors gm-Volt, insideEVs, and other EV vehicle forums. WOT, petefoss, , Peter Savagian. I’d bet Andrew Farrah regularly checks in here.

    http://insideevs.com/gm-general-says-spark-evs-400lb-ft-of-torque-no-misprint/

    They’re like us – not stupid – possibly at least as bright as the average forum member here. They know that electrification is a home-run in all kinds of ways. When GM melted down in 2008, a lot of them probably had to deal with watching friends get laid off, stress over possibly losing their own careers, and see their communities in Michigan slide further downhill as a result. There is a corporate sense that they had their butts collectively kicked in the recent past by not staying ahead of the efficiency/quality/innovation game. My instinct is that while GM continues to make Silverado hay while the fake oil glut sun shines, they are also quietly completely re-engineering their product lines and developing leading edge efficiency vehicles that will be hitting the streets by 2015-2016 that will blow away a lot of this chatter, and hopefully some of their compettion. That’s what Dan is saying and I believe him. I’ll give them until then before I make any final judgments.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:54 pm)

    Kent: The other day, there was a picture on the web of Olivia Munn displaying a wardrobe malfunction. What I noticed more was the car that she was getting out of was a Volt.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/06/olivia-munn-nipples-sweater-photos_n_3223694.html

    Nice catch… on both accounts. :)


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:57 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: My guess is the S can probably blow the doors off of the ELR.

    One trick pony that stops after 250 miles doesn’t work/appeal to everyone who spends $60K+ on a luxury car.


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    May 14th, 2013 (12:58 pm)

    Jim I: I would be willing to bet $5.00 that even before the ELR starts to roll off the line, they will advertise the heck out of it to push demand. Because at $60K – $80K MSRP, they are now making money.

    I dunno, since it will only be a limited run.


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:06 pm)

    kdawg:
    I think this is the solution.More Voltec.Do not reduce the AER.The best part of Voltec is driving gas free.If it was just a hybrid, I never would have bought mine.

    Ditto! +1


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:08 pm)

    Yeah it is amazing, if GM were to do a step function into the Voltec drivetrain where are all the batteries coming from? You had a factory by LG that was paying people to play video games for lack of demand. Does that factory have enough capacity to supply all GM Lines? Not to mention most people don’t seem to see VIA motors as GM’s ace in the hole when it comes to electrifying their high payload lineup. That company is collecting valuable field data and developing assembly methodology and they are not doing it Ford, Dodge, Toyota or Nissan units. By 2017 I expect to see a fully developed Voltec style Suburban or Escalade with a V6 and 60 miles of AER using water cooled wheel motors capable of 35 mpg CS. For a lot of tradesmen this would be more than adequate and a cost of $50,000 is what most high end trucks and SUV’s are going for today.


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:23 pm)

    OK, some of you Gloomy Guses are gonna have to start posting some supporting links.


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:28 pm)

    2col83m.jpg

    “We’ll never make it! I just know it!”


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:41 pm)

    Steverino:

    Is this Debbie Downer day? Did everyone miss their morning cup of coffee and or Prozac?

    Apparently so but I feel much better now. :)


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:42 pm)

    Jim I: I agree with everything you say, except where you state “They are definitely trying to market the Volt.”

    My opinion? They don’t want to sell cars in volume that lose them money on every sale. I would be willing to bet $5.00 that even before the ELR starts to roll off the line, they will advertise the heck out of it to push demand. Because at $60K – $80K MSRP, they are now making money.

    In SoCal they have a dedicated team for marketing which are using billboards and local events — even an extended test drive program. This is what I’m referring to. May not exist in other places.

    On the “lose money on every sale” front, one point which was made in the forums is that GM may not be losing money on the Volt if you factor in the ZEV and other regulatory credits. Tesla lost money on every Model S it sold in the last quarter but made a small profit on every one by selling the resulting ZEV and regulatory credits to Mercedes Benz. GM of course wouldn’t sell the credits from the Volt to itself but, if it did, the Volt might well be profitable. One more example of how profitability depends on how big a picture you look at.


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:53 pm)

    kdawg: One trick pony that stops after 250 miles doesn’t work/appeal to everyone who spends $60K+ on a luxury car.

    Their sales tells a different story.


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:55 pm)

    kdawg: I dunno, since it will only be a limited run.

    ============================

    Two thoughts on that:

    1. GM missed badly by stating they would sell 20K Volts the first year. They do not want to do that again. What better way to look good than to say you are only going to build a few thousand and then get flooded with 3 or 4 times that quantity? How would that play on Fox??

    2. I read somewhere once that IBM marketing figured the entire worldwide market for the original IBM-PC was 5K units. But they were really happy when they sold that many the first week……

    C-5277


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    May 14th, 2013 (1:59 pm)

    Jackson,

    Like I said, I hope I’m wrong. But that’s how it feels to me. I’m about to sell the coolest car I’ll ever have (1987 Porsche 911) to buy a second Volt. My wife and I love our Volt. But I don’t get the sense GM is committed to it, and that’s a shame.


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    May 14th, 2013 (2:01 pm)

    James:
    One obvious correlation is the history of the Prius and Volt.

    Toyota did the exact same thing – not focusing on a whole line of Prii,
    but just a much better 2nd generation Prius. When they came out
    with Prius-v2 it changed the world. 1987, first Prius barely was a blip
    on the radar. Toyota lost tons of cash developing it, and many thought
    they were stark raving mad to do so. Well, today we see that they believed
    in it’s future, and were proven very right. GM could show the world the same
    thing with Voltec.

    The similarities between Prius and Volt history continue. Seems GM is focused
    on 2nd gen Volt being a better Volt – more of what a mass-appeal PHEV would
    look like. That’s fine – but why not see what ended up being an entire line of
    Prii – and just engineer that into reality now for 2nd gen Voltec???? Why
    painstakingly build gen 2 and then wait to see if it takes off? If you’re confident
    in the platform – FLAUNT IT. Flaunt it in CUVs. trucks and cars we can afford.
    Back to Prius history – once the Highlander HSD, Lexus HSDs, Camry HSD,
    and all other HSDs hit the market, the expense of their NIMH battery packs
    and all that Prius R&D began paying it’s debts back.

    Why can’t GM see this?Why the single-minded approach and insane preoccupation
    with costs?

    Spread the costs into many models and watch them disappear into profitability.

    RECHARGE! ,
    James

    If you are so impressed with the way Toyota handled the hybrid synergy drive where it took them seven years to spread the technology to other models, why are you so impatient with GM introducing another model after only 3 years of a groundbreaking drive train introduction? In 2012 hybrids across all manufacturers made up 4.5 million of 60 million cars sold globally EREV’s were maybe 25,000 of that counting all of GM, Ford and Toyota and Fisker’s output. The Leaf and Tesla are not EREV’S so I’m not counting them. Where is the support coming from in terms of batteries and electric motors to support this grand expansion you are wishing for?


  73. 73
    DonC

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    May 14th, 2013 (2:01 pm)

    George S. Bower: Apparently so but I feel much better now.

    I personally believe that GM needs to communicate more. It’s been too tight lipped for sure and, without Bob Lutz blurting things out it’s not the same. However, if you look at what GM is doing you should have a good idea of where they’re heading:

    1. There will be a Gen II Volt.
    2. It will cost less (Reuss and Akerson have both said that).
    3. It will weigh less (platform changes give engineers the best shot at weight reduction).
    4. It will have a much more powerful motor (GM didn’t build that motor for the Spark EV, which delivers 400 NM of torque as a one-off for the Spark).
    5. It will have more HP (the tweaking for the ELR will not stay with Cadillac only)
    6. It will have more room (the D2XX is larger and supports sedans and CUVs)
    7. The drive train will be significantly more efficient (the 85% efficiency for the Spark is kinda mind blowing).
    8. The battery will be smaller and the chemistry more robust.
    9. It probably won’t have the SAE DC charger. LOL

    Most of the above are already released features/improvements and, as such, are actual tangible signs of progress. Not sure why you’re so gloomy.


  74. 74
    Jim I

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    May 14th, 2013 (2:02 pm)

    Jackson: OK, some of you Gloomy Guses are gonna have to start posting some supporting links.

    ===========================

    OK

    Here is the amount GM spent on advertising:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/corporations-ad-spending-2011-6?op=1

    Now, do you think they spent enough of that on the Volt’s advertising????

    C-5277


  75. 75
    Jim I

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    May 14th, 2013 (2:09 pm)

    DonC: I personally believe that GM needs to communicate more. It’s been too tight lipped for sure and, without Bob Lutz blurting things out it’s not the same. However, if you look at what GM is doing you should have a good idea of where they’re heading:

    1. There will be a Gen II Volt.
    2. It will cost less (Reuss and Akerson have both said that).
    3. It will weigh less (platform changes give engineers the best shot at weight reduction).
    4. It will have a much more powerful motor (GM didn’t build that motor for the Spark EV, which delivers 400 NM of torque as a one-off for the Spark).
    5. It will have more HP (the tweaking for the ELR will not stay with Cadillac only)
    6. It will have more room (the D2XX is larger and supports sedans and CUVs)
    7. The drive train will be significantly more efficient (the 85% efficiency for the Spark is kinda mind blowing).
    8. The battery will be smaller and the chemistry more robust.
    9. It probably won’t have the SAE DC charger. LOL

    Most of the above are already released features/improvements and, as such, are actual tangible signs of progress. Not sure why you’re so gloomy.

    =======================

    I REALLY hope you are right.

    We just got used to being in the loop with GM talking to us through Lyle and Jeff. When you get NO news, and stupid (yes it really is dumb!) statements like the ELR is not Voltec, you get frustrated and start to wonder……………

    But I am glad we are back to talking about Volt and not Tesla!!!! Does that count for anything??

    :)

    C-5277


  76. 76
    Jackson

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    May 14th, 2013 (2:11 pm)

    “The Volt is the only Voltec, says GM”

    Could we be over-reacting to this a wee bit? This is the same GM which said that “Chevy” would no longer be an acceptable way to refer to “Chevrolet.” Anyone heard anything about this lately?


  77. 77
    Jim I

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    May 14th, 2013 (2:18 pm)

    Jackson: Could we be over-reacting to this a wee bit?This is the same GM which said that “Chevy” would no longer be an acceptable way to refer to “Chevrolet.”Anyone heard anything about this lately?

    ================

    It almost makes you long to hear some off the cuff words of wisdom from Maximum Bob Lutz!!!!!

    :)

    C-5277


  78. 78
    Noel Park

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    May 14th, 2013 (3:41 pm)

    Jim I: But I am glad we are back to talking about Volt and not Tesla!!!! Does that count for anything??

    #75

    Now THERE I’ve gotta put in with you. +1


  79. 79
    Noel Park

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    May 14th, 2013 (3:44 pm)

    kdawg: One trick pony that stops after 250 miles doesn’t work/appeal to everyone who spends $60K+ on a luxury car.

    #61

    That’s my sense of it. +1

    IMHO this is a bit of a bubble. Once they run through their “early adopters”, it’s going to get a whole lot tougher. Again, JMHO. I hope I’m wrong.


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    CaptJackSparrow

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    May 14th, 2013 (3:46 pm)

    I think a Voltec Pickup truck is due!


  81. 81
    Tim Shevlin

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    May 14th, 2013 (4:07 pm)

    If the gen II Volt is to be radically different, then it is puzzling to me that the ELR, based on Volt I tech, would be introduced only a year or so prior to Volt II. I’m thinking that at the very least, the Volt battery configuration will be carried over for many years, though the chemistry will improve.

    Now that Tesla has made owning high-end EV’s respectable, ELR can compete, I think, with a tweaked, but quieter ICE/motor combo and perhaps mods to allow the ICE to add torque under any full throttle condition. This may just get the standing start acceleration figures into a Tesla-competitive range– which, of course, is for bragging rights only, if one intends to drive any distance on battery-only power.(as most of us do)


  82. 82
    Dave K.

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    May 14th, 2013 (4:09 pm)

    Voltec or not? GM needs to stick to the basics before throwing curve balls. I drove my Volt to a health food store this morning. As I parked a guy waiting to talk with me. He said, “Your car is very quiet, I didn’t even hear it”. I replied, “It’s electric, it has a 149HP electric motor and a 385lb lithium battery. He asked, “Can you take it on the freeway?”.

    There is still a long way to go getting the word out on the Voltec system before calling it something else.


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    May 14th, 2013 (4:22 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: Their sales tells a different story.

    Really? Every luxury car over $60K sold was a Tesla? Targets for the Model S are 17k~20K annually. Mercedes easily sells more $60K cars than this annually in the US alone. Then you have BMW, Caddy, Lexus, etc. A lot of the initial interest in the Model S is that they are the only luxury EV player, now that Fisker is gone, in the $50K to $150K range. Let’s see what happens when other’s bring their luxury models out, some with range extenders.


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    May 14th, 2013 (4:24 pm)

    Jim I: Two thoughts on that:
    1. GM missed badly by stating they would sell 20K Volts the first year. They do not want to do that again. What better way to look good than to say you are only going to build a few thousand and then get flooded with 3 or 4 times that quantity? How would that play on Fox??
    2. I read somewhere once that IBM marketing figured the entire worldwide market for the original IBM-PC was 5K units. But they were really happy when they sold that many the first week……

    I hope that is the case, UPOD (under promise over deliver)


  85. 85
    kdawg

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    May 14th, 2013 (4:34 pm)

    DonC: 1. There will be a Gen II Volt.

    maggiesfarm: But I don’t get the sense GM is committed to it, and that’s a shame.

    George S. Bower: That’s because there are no further developments forthcoming.

    Charlie H: if they start over, they won’t have something until 2017, unless they’ve been very uncharacteristically silent on the project.

    I have friends who have been working on the Volt 2.0 over the last few years, don’t worry.

    (no they cannot release any details, trust me I’ve asked)


  86. 86
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    May 14th, 2013 (4:40 pm)

    kdawg,

    So you like the Malibu, but GM decides an emergency major refresh
    after 1 year? I’m glad you like it, to each our own, but the numbers say
    it’s a full-out failure. Ads in my newspaper slashing prices…

    GMC and Chevrolet – together, twice the dealerships, twice the ad
    campaigns in print media, net and TV – two sets of grille designs,
    wheel designs, interior tweaks….and to my eye they’ve barely skinned
    Ford’s F-150 sales ( not a brand-new model ) for one month! One month!
    This is not a big win, folks – esp. for a brand-new model. Plus, Ford counters
    GM’s autoshow truck rollout with it’s surprise showing of it’s ATLAS, or next
    F-150, and the world rejoices-the web lights up like Christmas! I personally
    am not here to endorse ANY fullsize truck, because THEY ALL STINK. They
    all are following a formula perfected in the 1980s. If, as someone suggested,
    Ford and Toyota are collaborating on a hybrid truck, GM IS SCREWED.

    Yes, like all industries, all competitors watch each other closely, bordering on
    obsession – replete with spies and the whole nine. Automakers have all drooled
    at HSD and wished they’d have the resources ( and guts ) to have stuck their
    necks out and made a viable hybrid. When against the wall 3 or 4 major makers
    worked together and all they came up with was 2-mode! So when GM gets help
    from Uncle Sam, and finishes Voltec, you better believe it’ll be labeled in history
    as a major “epic fail” unless they capitalize on their advantage. My point is
    why follow the Prius model and take 15 years to introduce a Prius line of vehicles?!!
    And why not get the hint from Tesla and build an EREV truck?!! Why wait for
    damage from Toyota and Ford?!! Why obsess, like Toyota did – on perfecting Volt
    when they could literally bury their competition by going whole hog on Volt
    derivatives?

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  87. 87
    Noel Park

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    May 14th, 2013 (4:51 pm)

    We’re leaving at 5:00 am tomorrow for Sears Point, aka Infineon Raceway, aka “Sonoma”, for the Sonoma Historic Motorsports Festival. This year being the 60th anniversary of the Corvette, it is the featured “marque”. We are running our ’55 and our ’58.

    See ya next Monday. Blog on, and I hope that you don’t miss my pearls of wisdom too much, LOL.


  88. 88
    James

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    May 14th, 2013 (4:57 pm)

    Bobc: If you are so impressed with the way Toyota handled the hybrid synergy drive where it took them seven years to spread the technology to other models, why are you so impatient with GM introducing another model after only 3 years of a groundbreaking drive train introduction? In 2012 hybrids across all manufacturers made up 4.5 million of 60 million cars sold globally EREV’s were maybe 25,000 of that counting all of GM, Ford and Toyotaand Fisker’s output. The Leafand Tesla are not EREV’Sso I’m not counting them. Where is the support coming from in terms of batteries and electric motors to support this grand expansion you are wishing for?

    Last month, GM’s 2-mode e-assist models sold in the hundreds. The numbers
    for hybrid sales are impressive, especially when, depending on whom you believe,
    that Ford and Toyota invented and perfected HSD – and most hybrid sales
    in tens of thousands are HSD.

    To my count, it didn’t take Toyota 7, but 15 years to propagate HSD into more
    Prius models ( 1997 – 2012 ). 7 Years in the U.S. market for HSD to appear
    in Camry and Highlander hybrids. Voltec is a full system requiring more
    chassis engineering than HSD since the size of the battery pack pretty much
    has to start with a design from scratch. HSD could be implemented into existing
    models.

    One area in which GM could IMMEDIATELY score a big win is EREV trucks because
    no new complete chassis systems need be engineered. VIA Motors has proven this
    with it’s V-Trux – why GM isn’t selling them at it’s dealers is a puzzle to me! The
    work has already been done – sell them!

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  89. 89
    CaptJackSparrow

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    May 14th, 2013 (5:00 pm)

    James: GM could IMMEDIATELY score a big win is EREV trucks

    I’ll drink to that!!!!!


  90. 90
    CaptJackSparrow

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    May 14th, 2013 (5:00 pm)

    Noel Park: See ya next Monday.

    Have fun!!!


  91. 91
    Bonaire

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    May 14th, 2013 (5:05 pm)

    >> we’ll go a little deeper into the battery’s capacity

    Hey now, what can we do with the Volts we have to get this nifty useful “feature”?


  92. 92
    James

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    May 14th, 2013 (5:06 pm)

    Kent: The other day, there was a picture on the web of Olivia Munn displaying a wardrobe malfunction. What I noticed more was the car that she was getting out of was a Volt.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/06/olivia-munn-nipples-sweater-photos_n_3223694.html

    Hey Kent, “what I noticed was that the car that she was getting out of was a Volt” —-

    WHOA! I said I was a Voltaholic – dude, you need to go to rehab! I love the Volt, man,
    but Olivia Munn getting out of a car showing __pples and you notice THE CAR?!!! LOL!!!

    Man – you got it bad!!!!:)!

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  93. 93
    Jim I

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    May 14th, 2013 (6:04 pm)

    OT, but fun to report.

    I just got back from my weekly drive to 11 of my customers. This is a combination of interstate and city driving.

    Total Distance – 66.5 miles

    Total Electric – 40.5 miles

    Total ICE – 26 miles

    Gas used – .65 gallons (2.6 Quarts!) or 40 mpg in ICE mode.

    Just to be clear, that is 66.5 miles on $1.20 worth of electric and $2.50 worth of gasoline. That works out to $0.056 / mile.

    The Volt is doing exactly what GM said it would do!!!!

    :)

    C-5277


  94. 94
    George S. Bower

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    May 14th, 2013 (6:11 pm)

    kdawg:
    I have friends who have been working on the Volt 2.0 over the last few years, don’t worry.

    (no they cannot release any details, trust me I’ve asked)

    I wonder if they will stay with the T shaped pack or put the batteries in the floor.


  95. 95
    Khadgars

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    May 14th, 2013 (6:15 pm)

    Wow, way too much whining on here now. The Volt has been out for a couple years, thats it and everyone is expecting to have a full portfolio of EREVs by now? GM already said after the Volt Gen I they would be a lot more hush hush about their new products.

    The Volt has always been about Gen II for mass market which will probably be coming out towards the end of next year. Relax people, the Volt is doing better than the Prius at this stage in the game and just because the Leaf outsells the Volt for a couple months doesn’t mean the sky is falling.

    GM wouldn’t have invested in a new plant producing electric motors as well as getting LG to produce their batteries here in the US if electrification wasn’t a high priority.


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    volt11

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    May 14th, 2013 (6:28 pm)

    My theory is that people got all charged up one way or another on this one because a GM guy made an insanely asinine comment, which maybe came right out of some “out of touch” board meeting–the kind that produced that old “we don’t say Chevy anymore” remark. Why say anything of the kind? The more they try to distance the ELR from the Volt, the more aggressively the press is going to fry the ELR for so-called badge engineering to prove they’re not gonna be hoodwinked. Saying it’s not a Voltec just makes them look as silly as power cupholders and as stupid as no sunroof of any kind in a $60K-80K luxury coupe.

    I really do retain high hopes for Volt gen 2, but almost everything ELR-related has been discouraging if not cringe-worthy.


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    Sean

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    May 14th, 2013 (6:32 pm)

    I hope the Gen II Volt will get more people excited haven’t heard anything exciting about the EV world I wish there was some places I could get updated news on the EV world?

    The mainstream news sucks now on this subject and a couple years ago it was everywhere.

    Err the news is terrible!


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    CaptJackSparrow

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    May 14th, 2013 (6:44 pm)

    Sean: I wish there was some places I could get updated news on the EV world?

    How bout: http://insideevs.com/


  99. 99
    Nelson

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    May 14th, 2013 (7:08 pm)

    Wikipedia says:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltec

    Voltec, formerly known as E-Flex, is a General Motors powertrain released in November 2010. The Voltec architecture is primarily a plug-in capable, battery-dominant electric vehicle with additional fossil fuel powered series and parallel hybrid capabilities.[1]

    Voltec vehicles like the Chevrolet Volt are all electrically driven, feature common drivetrain components, and will be able to create electricity on board using either a fuel cell or a gasoline motor to generate electricity. Regenerative braking contributes to the on-board electricity generation.

    Sounds like the ELR is a Voltec vehicle after all. Be proud of it GM it was and is a great idea.

    NPNS!
    Volt#671


  100. 100
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    May 14th, 2013 (7:17 pm)

    James: Hey Kent, “what I noticed was that the car that she was getting out of was a Volt” —-

    WHOA! I said I was a Voltaholic – dude, you need to go to rehab! I love the Volt, man,
    but Olivia Munn getting out of a car showing __pples and you notice THE CAR?!!! LOL!!!

    Man – you got it bad!!!!:)!

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    It really sucks to be me!


  101. 101
    Ziv

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    May 14th, 2013 (7:41 pm)

    Khadgars, I agree with the bitching on this thread, I don’t think of it as whining. GM has encouraged their engineers to build to a phenomenal car, and then they allowed the MBA’s to make huge errors, and GM hasn’t done anything to rectify those errors. Akerson stepped on his own d*** when he said that the Volt lost money, because he is being tutored by MBA’s that are more fixated on the tax advantages of losing money rather than the obvious positives of acknowledging that your halo vehicle is making money on each unit sold.
    GM has shot itself in the foot so many times with the Volt that it is hard to believe that it is not intentional.
    Price the Volt at less than $37.5k MSRP now, keep adding small additional amounts of AER, loudly trumpet every price reduction as being the result of the huge amount of sales, and then get the next platform into production ASAP so that the next Volt doesn’t have a smaller backseat than a Honda Civic!
    I love the car, but I think the corporate drones at GM haven’t a clue as to how to market it. I mean, these are the geniuses that brought us the Aztek and the Catera! Lets not pretend that they can’t be painfully moronic at times.

    Khadgars:
    Wow, way too much whining on here now.The Volt has been out for a couple years, thats it and everyone is expecting to have a full portfolio of EREVs by now?GM already said after the Volt Gen I they would be a lot more hush hush about their new products.

    The Volt has always been about Gen II for mass market which will probably be coming out towards the end of next year.Relax people, the Volt is doing better than the Prius at this stage in the game and just because the Leaf outsells the Volt for a couple months doesn’t mean the sky is falling.

    GM wouldn’t have invested in a new plant producing electric motors as well as getting LG to produce their batteries here in the US if electrification wasn’t a high priority.


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    May 14th, 2013 (9:38 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow Thanks for the link I’ll add it to my favorites.

    Also wish gm-volt.com

    Would update us on more EV news.


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    May 14th, 2013 (11:31 pm)

    Ziv: I mean, these are the geniuses that brought us the Aztek and the Catera! Lets not pretend that they can’t be painfully moronic at times.

    I think the Aztek gets a bad wrap. I still see them all the time in my part of the woods. My cousin also had one for 250K miles, and loved it every day. It was ahead of it’s time and created a new type of vehicle which everyone then copied.

    From Wiki:
    The Aztek had among the highest CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index) scores in its class, and won the appellation of “Most Appealing Entry Sport Utility Vehicle” in 2001 from J.D. Power and Associates, an independent consumer survey organization which noted: “The Aztek scores highest or second highest in every APEAL component measure except exterior styling.”
    Matthew DeBord of The Big Money argued that despite its poor reviews and sales, the Aztek was the car that, in the long run, could save GM. He praised GM for being daring and trying to create an entirely new market in vehicles, rather than simply copying successful formulas. He argued that the Aztek’s failure is similar to the failure of the Apple Newton and Mac Portable – two failed products that re-volut!onized the computer industry and became the basis for later successful products made by Apple.


  104. 104
    jerry garcia

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    May 15th, 2013 (1:38 pm)

    I drive a Volt and end many days with either no charge or 1/10 of a gallon to get me up the hill. I was expecting the ELR to get 50+ miles range. 35 is a step backwards, and with the Tesla selling for about 20-30K more, GM has a lot to learn….


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    volt11

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    May 15th, 2013 (2:14 pm)

    kdawg: I think the Aztek gets a bad wrap. I still see them all the time in my part of the woods. My cousin also had one for 250K miles, and loved it every day. It was ahead of it’s time and created a new type of vehicle which everyone then copied.

    100% agree. It’s just one of those things that snowballed in the media, and then it became the common sheep opinion that fit into the general GM-bashing, dysfunctional Gen-X culture. There are much uglier cars than the Aztek, and it was a good vehicle overall. The cousin car, the Buick Rendezvous, was quite nice for the time.


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    Charlie H

     

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    May 15th, 2013 (8:35 pm)

    kdawg,

    What vehicles are copies of the Aztek?


  107. 107
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    May 20th, 2013 (9:04 am)

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    Handgemachte Mode

     

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    May 20th, 2013 (5:50 pm)

    Currently it seems like BlogEngine is the top blogging platform
    out there right now. (from what I’ve read) Is that what you’re using on your blog?