Over the next four years, Tesla Motors intends to keep itself very busy filling out a closer to complete model line with a vehicle suitable for everyone from average income earners to far above average.
By 2016, company co-founder Elon Musk said there will be a smaller crossover to share stable space with the Model X crossover due in 2014, an economical sedan intended to start at around $30,000 and be sort of a scaled-down Model S, and a range-topping supercar.
Previous rumblings from Tesla’s senior designer, Franz von Holzhausen, were an all-electric pickup truck could one day be in the offing as well, but in an interview with Wired magazine, Musk talked cars and crossovers.
Tesla has not said whether its smaller crossover would also receive falcon wing doors like this Model X has.
Presently the Model S is only just rolling out, at last count, around the third week in August, production had crossed 100 units as the factory in Fremont Calif. learns how to hopefully do it right the first time – and avoid potential recalls – before it tries to speed up the process.
But speed up is what Tesla intends to do. The company has said it will produce 5,000 cars by Dec. 31 or risk insolvency (do you believe it will make it?). And aside from the obvious need to flesh out a product line like a fully fledged car company, Musk added the new models will be needed to reach the economy of scale required to make Tesla’s new vehicle architecture profitable.
High on the priority list is to get a Tesla in more people’s hands by offering a sedan by 2015 priced around the $30,000-and-up entry point. The company has not named it, but it is to be a competitor to the likes of BMW’s 3-Series, and of course, Tesla says it will be a better car just like it says its Model S is the worlds best sedan.
“In a lot of respects, it’ll be a scaled down Model S,” Musk told Wired. “Something like 20 to 25 percent smaller than the Model S” and included in the design will be the same hatchback feature incorporated into the sedan-styled Model S.
The smaller crossover to follow the Model X that Musk spoke of is projected to launch by 2016 along with a high-end sports car to take the place of the company’s first car, the Roadster, which was based on the Lotus Elise, and sold over 2,300 units worldwide.
The 2016 crossover was also not given a name by Musk in the interview. Only its target – another BMW, the X3 – was named. So, following the Model X, will this Tesla be an anti-X3? Probably not in name, but in intention, yes.
“We’ll do the X3 equivalent [crossover] and then a Roadster follow-up in parallel,” said Musk.
Musk’s ambitions to return a “Roadster follow-up” (supercar) to the lineup have been noted before, and this car he said will have “supercar performance, but not supercar pricing.” The assumption therefore is while the Roadster could sprint from 0-60 in under four seconds and top into the triple digits, this new car would be faster and quicker still, and if we’re really talking “supercar,” then 170 mph top speed might be considered an approximate entry point to this exclusive club.
How Tesla will deliver competitive “supercar performance” – which includes also stellar handling and braking attributes – should be interesting given the weight penalty inherent in a big powerful battery electric drivetrain. To compete with a Ferrari or Lamborghini, the company better find improved energy storage technology and economical ways to produce a lightened chassis if it is to undercut the beefy curb weight and beat the performance of the 4,500 pound Model S with 85-kwh battery.
But we know what some of you EV fans still sitting on the sidelines are thinking. Although others have said the “more intriguing” project is Tesla’s supercar, you would rather see a “scaled down” Model S priced like a Nissan Leaf, right?
Not to worry, and the Leaf is not the target. Rather, Musk boasted Tesla’s entry level car will compete with BMW’s 3-Series as well as the Audi A4 and Mercedes C-Class. At the moment this sounds remarkable to say the least given price penalties on EVs.
Frankly, $30-40,000 electric cars might be compared with higher end cars – the extended-range electric Chevy Volt for example does have those who say it does – but more often EVs have been called over-priced electric versions of more economical cars.
But Musk promised Tesla’s entry level EV will “look great and perform better than anything in its price range.”
If this proves true, it will be welcome news indeed.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, September 19th, 2012 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+7
Sep 19th, 2012 (6:21 am)I’m surprised that —with all the new models Tesla plans— NONE will be “untethered”! IOW, none will provide the complete freedom of the Voltec EREV system. No matter how one looks at it, even with extremely-high charging rate public chargers located —say— on a massive grid every 0.1mile north & south across the entire US & Canada, any “pure” EV driver will still HAVE TO STOP for a recharge when required. And a battery with a 300-mi range won’t truly eliminate that constraint —in fact, the larger the battery, the longer the recharge time (or the more frequently recharges will be needed).
I simply fail to see why Tesla (& other BEV makers) don’t realize that a battery of modest size (e.g., enough for 80-100 mi range) PLUS a small gas/ethanol/methanol powered generator could be BOTH LESS COSTLY AND LESS RESTRICTIVE IN RANGE than a pure BEV! And any well-designed EREV car has the added advantage of TWO power sources, making it much less likely to ever be stranded.
Mr Musk, I strongly suggest you swallow your pride in producing “pure” EVs and look at their truly fundamental disadvantages in contrast to the EREV drive train concept!
+6
Sep 19th, 2012 (7:07 am)Tesla’s approach has many advantages. They also have extended range, with continued EV operation to 265 EPA miles. There also is plenty of passenger and cargo space, mostly due to lack of engine, exhaust, and fuel tank. No dangerous gasoline either. I hear that fire is a possibility with gas cars.
. Also, no oil changes, better aerodynamics, no CS operation with the old fashioned, less than perfectly smooth, reciprocating piston engine…..
The Model S can refuel at 300 mph. This is not as fast as gasoline, which can refuel at 3000 mph, but fast enough to completely replace gas cars for any sort of journey.
I hope Tesla sticks to their pure EV approach and is successful.
GSP
+3
Sep 19th, 2012 (7:38 am)When we see how slow the Volt and leaf have been to take hold I really question how the more expensive model S is going to do after the early adopters have had their go. It better be one awesome driving and buying experience.
+3
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:24 am)These are all niche vehicles with a very high end and early-adopter clientele. There would need to be a massive shift in lower end vehicles to hybrids for a BEV to make sense to the normal soccer-mom.
I guess I don’t see the vision that billionaires see.
+6
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:38 am)GSP,
l can see a coast to coast run in your example. drive 4-5 hours then look for a place to recharge….find a charger but three tesla’s waitilng to charge……stop at motel while charging…..6 maybe seven times
on your trip….nuff said……l’ll take my Volt….gas up in five minutes….switch drivers….keep on going
no waiting anywhere……l’ll be on the beach three-four days before you get there…..
tesla has no extended range !!!
Voltec is the only way to skip anxiety treatment…..
jest saying…
HaroldC
+5
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:40 am)nasaman,
I don’t know if they have the resources to design & integrate an ICE, and write millions of lines of code to control it.
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:46 am)The BMW X3 xDRIVE28i has an MSRP of $38,500. (I’m not a fan of BMW’s styling so hopefully Telsa doesn’t plan to emulate any of that)
——————–
But Musk promised Tesla’s entry level EV will “look great and perform better than anything in its price range.”
—————-
The Audi A4 is priced at $32,500.
So if Tesla can make something at $37,500 that qualifies for a $7,500 tax break, I could see it stealing some sales from Audi. Assuming a BEV works for the purchasers, but definately not an “ECO car”.
I wonder if Tesla is going to make a Spark EV fighter… (prob not)
So is this the basic price breakdown?
1) Supercar ~ $125K +
2) Model X ~ $80K?
3) Model S ~ $50K
4) Crossover ~ $40K?
5) Eco Sedan ~ $30K?
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:54 am)I HAD a tendency to believe that also, but after SpaceX successful DRAGON docking, I doubt that is the case.
Some day we will have wireless charging on the freeways. I think this is what GSP was inferring.
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (9:06 am)Good point, kdawg. However, remember that Elon had his engineering staff at SpaceX tackle some pretty “heavy-duty” flight control software successfully. Also, GM’s & IBM’s Chevy Volt design team involved several software engineers who wrote/tested those millions of lines of code. Some of these people could very likely be lured to join Tesla’s engineering staff. Finally, Elon Musk is the same kind of genius that Tom Edison was: both have had bold ideas and a large team of talented people to try to make them successful; both were/are somewhat dictatorial as managers, which risks overlooking better solutions because “the boss won’t like it”. I think this may very well be Elon’s problem.
As regards the ICE/motor/generator, Tesla could buy it from GM just as Fisker did (I drove a Karma aggressively & found its handoff to its 2.0L GM engine to be very smooth (in spite of its loud exhaust).
+9
Sep 19th, 2012 (9:28 am)I am surprised to see all the negativity towards Tesla. Tesla does not have a heritage of building ICE cars. It would cost them a fortune to design/build their own or purchace someone elses ICE. They simply do not need to do this. There is a big enough market for pure BEVs, and Tesla is smart not to compete head-on with the Volt.
Market not big enough based on Volt sales? How about the fact that they have pre-sold 15000 cars! These sales are not the hand-raiser type seen for the LEAF which only required a $99 deposit but have a $5k deposit, and are almost 100% guaranteed to turn into real sales.
Low price? We are talking about 2016 here. Battery prices will have come down by then.
Tesla is dareing, but they have a solid business plan.
+6
Sep 19th, 2012 (9:32 am)I don’t know Elon Musk, but he strikes me as someone who feels that the solution to this problem will come by forcing the situation. The workaround of putting a carbon fuel based generator is clearly shown to be not just viable, but a huge contributor to a reduction in oil-based fuel usage. However, perhaps he is right that the breakthrough will come through necessity. Honestly, if a pure EV could be used exactly like an unlimited range ICE-based vehicle through quick and easy “refuels” then I would prefer that over a hybrid approach. We just aren’t there yet.
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (9:41 am)We’ve kicked this poor dead horse so many times… For a novelty car that sits in your garage and you drive every now and then an electric with a large range makes sense. But what about for a car that you use every day? Why lug around a 250 mile battery every day when you normally drive 30, 50 or even 100 miles a day? For big trips? Fine as long as your definition of “big trips” is less then 250 miles. Rent a different car for those occasions? That is a possibility as long as it is not too often but even every other month would start to really cut into any savings. I think just about every Volt driver would love to see the day that we can just ditch the ICE in our cars but don’t hold your breath! The realities of life dictate that for most of us an EREV is the perfect bridge from pure ICE to pure EV and it is going to take a decade or more to cross this bridge.
Although I will add this. As a 2nd car a Tesla pure EV probably makes sense for a lot of people I just don’t see it as your one and only vehicle. What percent of American households have more than 1 car? Seems like a pretty big market…
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (9:59 am)I thought he was referring to the charge rate. 300mph = 300 miles of range per hour (DC quick charging)
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:03 am)nasaman,
Let me rephrase, I don’t believe Tesla has the cash (or time) to hire the people necessary to design/integrate/program/test an EREV concept.
I think one engineering department in GM has more bodies than all of Tesla Incorporated.
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:31 am)I guess I’ll hold off on getting my 3rd Volt!
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:33 am)Tesla has some charging surprises next Monday evening in LA. Supercharger will have solar panels and won’t be missed during travel.
http://twitter.com/ZimmerOC/status/248433162470969344/photo/1
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:34 am)Have to agree with you Ron. I’m puzzled why anyone thinks the Model S makes sense. It’s way too big and expensive for commuting and way too range limited for longer trips. Hard to figure out what it’s good for. Basically I don’t think there are that many soccer moms driving Panameras which would seem to be the target demographic. The downsized sedan or the crossover make far more sense, but with the electric RAV4 already at $50K I don’t see these vehicles coming in at $30K or under.
I also doubt that Tesla will sell 5000 cars by December, absent some creative accounting, which will probably show up.
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:35 am)My company will lease a Volt as a service vehicle. My personal car will be a base Tesla S. We have a fuel guzziling Range Rover for the depths of winter and the VERY occasional longer trip. That is the mix that works for us. Everybody else has variations of the mix for their personal needs.
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:37 am)I think we know this to be the case. When GM announced the Volt it took Musk completely by surprise. He went to his engineering team and told them he wanted an EREV. They told him that it was out of the question, they simply didn’t have the ability to produce it. Musk then decided to go with what he could do, which is BEVs. Good decision actually.
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:47 am)DonC,
Really!? I hadn’t heard that before. For some reason I thought Musk was a purist, but good to know he appreciates the EREV design.
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (11:21 am)EREV is the technology that’s ready now and can most easily adapt to whatever replaces the gasoline engine; diesel, natural gas, any sort of fuel cell, etc. The battery only vehicle is stuck with waiting for a breakthrough in battery performance and charging infrastructure to be installed.
-2
Sep 19th, 2012 (11:34 am)#17
I can only agree. +1
Plus where, pray tell, is all of the cash coming from to develop all of these new models? For that ambitious (unrealistic?) model range, the cost would have to be somewhere in the billions I would assume.
I know not what course others may take, but I’m not buying any Tesla stock any time soon, LOL.
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (11:40 am)In the long term, BEVs make sense. Battery technology must still improve but we have signs we’re going somewhere with research. Recharging must be faster. But all of this is possible in a matter of years.
I understand Tesla to not bother with ‘legacy hardware’ and not put an ICE engine in the car. If we were to reinvent automobile, that’s what we would do. It’s a bold move and if successful they will have a great reputation.
If Tesla can survive its infancy, it will strive 10 or 15 years down the road. In the meantime, EREV is definitely the way forward without too much pain.
+3
Sep 19th, 2012 (11:51 am)I’ve owned my Volt since 3/31 and the last time I bought gas on back on April 22nd, the last time I used gas was on May 9th for 2 miles, since then 100% of my driving has been ALL electric – over 4000 miles. It costs me about $1.25 to charge my battery (about 13 kWh when fully depleted) at current rates.
Essentially my electric bill has increased by about $20/month and I’m averaging about 750 miles/month.
So for the vast majority of my daily driving needs the Volt operates as a pure electric vehicle, but should I need to wander further from home I can just keep driving. And even then my real world fuel mileage is just at 41 MPG.
I appreciate what Tesla is trying to do, but until the “electric highway” is built and fact, easy and convenient Tesla has a long row to hoe. But I wish them success.
Now all I hope for is for GM to continue to improve the Volts performance and lower it’s price.
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (12:00 pm)I agree that E-REV is a superior vehicle for those who want to own one car. However there is a logical reason why some would purchase a Tesla instead. It’s always electric with outrageous performance.. No vibrations or sound from an ICE engine at any time. The buyer can choose 160, 320 or 300 mile range (although EPA estimates are lower.) For those who have a daily travel under those ranges, the Model S can be a logical choice.
Where it doesn’t make sense is if you need to travel cross country quickly. For those adventures the gas powered car is perfect, except for added fuel cost and pollution.
I loved the Volt so much while it was in electric mode, that I decided to trade in for an all electric alternative. Where Model S will shine is touring around Southern California and travel between homes of relatives and friends. It will be missed during the occasional quick LA to OKC road trip. For that, the gas guzzling Escalade performs well and provides a great view with the higher profile.
Sep 19th, 2012 (12:31 pm)Is Tesla going to stick with the LIFEPO4 batteries, or go to NMC?
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (1:12 pm)We can expect Israel to overfly Iran any day, or any week now – and once they’ve bombed those nuclear sites we can bet the figurative oil fit is going to hit the shan. Right now the Middle East is such a mess that any blip on the screen can cause gas prices to fluctuate.
Many Americans absolutely will not even consider a hybrid vehicle until need necessitates. Folks already in hybrids certainly will look at BEVs, PHEVs and EREVs as the price of a gallon of dino juice escalates. Thing is, I’d place my bets with EVs no matter how much oil lobbies try to squash them. Peak Oil and political unrest will do the job – and Mr. Musk is positioned perfectly with all that Fremont factory space and EV experience going for him. Mercedes EV B Class and Toyota’s RAV4EV are prime examples of manufacturers hedging their bets using Tesla’s resources – and when gas becomes rarer and more expensive – they’ll jump on the battery bandwagon full strength.The Tesla plant used to be a joint venture ( NUMMI ) between GM and Toyota – and has a huge output capacity potential. Don’t be surprised to see many more Mercedes and Toyota EVs coming from there.
I think auto battery and electronics company stocks are a good buy and a risky but great bet today as the gasoline market is as volatile as the commodity itself. Ford and Honda’s PHEVs couldn’t be better timed to catch the market in this time of flux.
Right now, a full variety buffet of hybrids, PHEVs and BEVs are in order to fit all needs and budgets. This is how the economies of scale will drive down battery prices. This is how the EV war will be won. It seems slow now, but the snowball’s momentum is ever increasing. I think Musk is good to keep with the pure BEV model as the world is swiftly catching up to him.
RECHARGE! ,
James
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (1:43 pm)kdawg,
Absolutely Tesla engineering is capable of VOLT level software–ten million lines of code+. You don’t think Toyota turned Tesla loose on a Toyota design out of the goodness of their heart. You mean given the RAV4 EV Tesla’s engineers aren’t conversant with ICE combos… See RAV4 EV races to market– SAE Vehicle Electrification; Technology eNewsletter, Sept 17, 2012.
Whatever, your point of whether Tesla would commit its resource is valid. Its also true, George’s point, Musk carries an enormous ego. (For very good reasons.)
There’s no question Musk harbors thoughts of doing away with batteries in favor of capacitors; there’s a discussion group that claims Musk would invest $4mil into a super-capacitor scheme if one were built. (Which was to be his PH. D. work at Stanford) He’s quoted as saying its all about material science and physics. Not money.
Musk has this right. In fact, I’m convinced a VOLT size car could be built right now that could transverse the country on a tank or two of gas.
Sep 19th, 2012 (1:45 pm)“Frankly, $30-40,000 electric cars might be compared with higher end cars – the extended-range electric Chevy Volt for example does have those who say it does – but more often EVs have been called over-priced electric versions of more economical cars.”
Jeff, I respect your passion when writing about the current state of mass produced PHEV and PEV’s world wide. As a seller of The Amazing Chevy Volt EREV, I run across often the “Pillars of EV Rebuttal” time and time again.
!) Not Enough Range!…
2) Costs to much!…
2) I don’t make enough money…
We know that the Volt handily gets around all range issues with its unlimited range propulsion. My complaint with you is that you continue to innocently parrot the, ” It Costs to much”, issue as I present in your quote above.
Here is My rebutal and my request that you reference the unbelievable low cost to drive a PHEV such as the Chevy Volt every chavce you get as I will make my case for this below-
This link takes you to the Chevrolet New Car web site where we see that we can lease a brand new Chevy Volt around $269.00 a month– NET NET
http://www.chevrolet.com/2012-volt-electric-car.html
Jeff, having leased my Volt back on March 12, 2012 of this year, I now have 7,959 miles on it and I have used 6.5 gallons of gas!
Voltstats.net Amazing Chev #49
I still have the gas in the tank fron 6+ months ago. I pay roughly $1.00 a day to drive 1,250 miles a month- $30.00 a month-
I am saving over $220.00 a month, cost of gas! Ain’t gonna pay $4.00 gas!!
My net cost to drive the $40.00.00 Amazing Chevy Volt EREV under current Lease offer then can be stated,- is $69.00 a month-NET NET!
I know that I have taken some liberties with my above breakout but as they say on Voltstats.net this is literally correct.. : )
Rebutal number 3 is, I do not have enough income-
Batted around everywhere including the GM Chairman Ackerson in the Congressional hearings last spring was that the average Volt buyer earned $170.000.00 a year. While he was targeting the affulent car buyer, frankly the Ally Bank/ Us Bank income requirements are severly less then the early buyer average-
This from Cars.com- Income to lease threshold of about $28,000.00 a year take home-
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2010/12/considering-nissan-leaf-or-chevy-volt-leasing-may-make-more-sense.html
So again, to quote you-
“Frankly, $30-40,000 electric cars might be compared with higher end cars – the extended-range electric Chevy Volt for example does have those who say it does – but more often EVs have been called over-priced electric versions of more economical cars.”
As I have hopeyfully clarified, most PHEV and PEV’s available in this country, if leased, are NOT expensive at all-
Imagin the sheer releif that we drivers of these vehicles feel every day as we zip past the local gas station- NOT wondering what gas is gonna gouge us today!
Best-
Thomas J. Thias
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (2:37 pm)Volt is not the only way to get range. My HEMI gets me there as well and cost $13k vs $40k.
Just sayin’. EVs may not be there yet, but, somebody’s got to lead the way. Tesla is going ‘all in’ on this one and ya gotta admire that amount of chutzpa.
+8
Sep 19th, 2012 (3:23 pm)Thomas,
I have looked the other way a few times here when you write long dissertations that essentially are quasi ads for a car you are selling. Like you, I indulge you for your passion, and let it go.
Please let me do my job as my job is not so much being an advocate but being more objective.
If I openly start shilling for the cause, I lose my credibility, and will not deliberately do such a thing to my personal reputation, or the appearance of objectivity for the sites I write for.
I have covered the low cost of ownership you mention in whole pieces here and several times over too.
I do not feel I must always frame things as you would like it from a salesman’s perspective however.
You wrote: “My complaint with you is that you continue to innocently parrot the, ” It Costs to much”, issue as I present in your quote above.”
With due respect, I think your rebuttal to my “parroting” is off base.
You focused on:
“Frankly, $30-40,000 electric cars might be compared with higher end cars – the extended-range electric Chevy Volt for example does have those who say it does – but more often EVs have been called over-priced electric versions of more economical cars.”
Do you see where I said the Volt is arguably – and only arguably – exempt? Pure $30-40k BEVS would include the Leaf, MiEV, Focus Electric, Smart EV.
The objection that you say I “parrot” is actually two-fold – but you focused on less than half of it, majoring on a defense of the Volt when I was reporting what some say of all $30-40k plug-in cars.
To clarify this objection I reported that other consumers do now think and feel:
1) Some people think BEVs cost too much. You answered this, particularly about the Volt, and covered low cost of operations and value, especially from leasing.
2) Some people also think these BEVs are over priced “economy cars.” Remember Tesla wants to introduce a Leaf-priced BEV that beats a BMW 3-Series, Audi A4 and M-B C Class.
The article quotes Musk: Tesla’s entry level EV will “look great and perform better than anything in its price range.”
3) You did not address this statement about performance and refinement BEVs like the Leaf, iMiEV, etc. offer for the money but focused on the Volt – the one car I said most likely gets a pass, and does arguably in the minds of some compare with the Tesla targeted ICE vehicles.
What’s more, I am reporting fact: These BEVs presently sell in the several hundred units or less per month, so it is a fact “EVs have been called over-priced electric versions of more economical cars.”
You then offer a long list of reasons why the VOLT is really a great deal. But I was not so much even alluding to the Volt, although some – even commenters here who otherwise love the car – do think it costs more than its should.
But the fact remains there are those who think EVs cost too much – and they think $30-40k BEVs are really just electrified versions of cars not on par with a BMW 3-Series, or Audi A4 or M-B C Class.
Shall I just write how wrong-headed all those people are? Again, the level of refinement and performance offered by BEVs was the other half of the “objection” you say I am parroting.
Even if these cars all do pay for themselves, a Leaf or iMiEV ain’t no BMW 3-Series.
The Volt may be considered approaching this benchmark for performance and refinement; certainly a lot of people say so.
And aside from the Volt, a cost of ownership argument can be made for any plug-in car, that I’ll grant you.
But even if these vehicles do all pay for themselves, if someone wants to purchase one, they still must come up with the up-front purchase price/make the payments. Not everyone is eligible for tax credits either.
Please do not politely take me to task for reporting what is now a reality.
Best Regards,
Jeff
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (3:29 pm)I agree with this part of your gripe, Thomas. And like that famous (to us here) issue of Kiplinger’s attempted to explain long ago, I’ll expand a bit on your point…
As a white-haired guy recently dubbed the “Explainer in Chief” might say it, “It’s just arithmetic, stupid”! Here’s a back-of-the-envelope way I see a Volt vs a Cruze…
2012 Chevy Cruze, Auto, 1.4L ECO/AUTO, EPA MPG 26/39:
Assume 200,000mi total driven in 12 yrs, or…
160,000mi (80%) @ 26mpg = 6,154 gals
40,000mi (20%) @ 39mpg = 1,026 gals
Gas used over 12 yrs (200,000 mi) = 7,180gals total
Cost of gas over 12 yrs @$3.80/gal = 7,180×3.80 = $27,284 (CRUZE)
==================================================
2013 Chevy Volt w/38mi EV range using EV range only:
Cost of electricity over 12 yrs (200,000 mi) in EV mode
Volt uses 10.8kWH/38mi = 0.284kWH/mi
or 200,000mi x 0.284kWH/mi = 56,842kWH total
Cost of Electricity over 12 yrs = 56,842kWH x @15c/kWH = $8,526 (VOLT)
===================================================
COST SAVINGS IN 12 YRS, VOLT IN EV MODE vs CRUZE ECO:
$27,284 gas – $8,526 elec = $18,758
Therefore, driving a Volt in EV mode over the average life of the car would save approximately as much as the total fuel cost for a 2012 Cruze ECO automatic (i.e. $18,758) over 200,000 miles (or about as much as a 2nd Cruze or other econocar)
/”The average car on the road is 11 years old, the highest figure ever recorded.”
(from : http://moneyland.time.com/2012/07/27/driver-consensus-its-silly-to-upgrade-cars-every-couple-of-years/#ixzz26whRx7ml )
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (3:39 pm)Well, expensive is a relative term. A lot of people commute in $65K cars, and they probably have 2 or 3 more cars at home. Is the Model S mainstream? – no. Will the “Eco” version be? – we’ll see if they hit the #’s.
Sep 19th, 2012 (3:51 pm)What does it cost to lease a Leaf? Will Tesla offer a lease program for its vehicles?
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (6:46 pm)#31
I think that you would be OK to just let this stuff roll off your back and not worry about it. When the comments get to a certain length I have to admit that I just sort of zone out and move on anyway. You may have noticed that my comments run to “Amen” or “Second the motion” 99% of the time. I usually try to find and double down on the positive comments I agree with and ignore the ones I don’t I never even saw his remark about birds, LOL.
Don’t sweat the little stuff pal. Just keep up the good work. +1
Sep 19th, 2012 (7:16 pm)Or, restating this conclusion of my post #32 in another way:
If one were to buy a new Chevy Cruze ECO instead of a Volt, when comparing their operating costs the Cruze would wind up costing you as much or more than a Volt to own over its lifetime—
—and the Volt is FAR, FAR MORE FUN TO DRIVE!
Sep 19th, 2012 (7:34 pm)A lot? LOL
Tesla is using NCM from Panasonic for the Model S. For the Roadster it used Li-cobalt. In both cases it has to match and then wire together thousands of 18650 cells.
+2
Sep 19th, 2012 (7:35 pm)nasaman,
I disagree.
Where IBM is in full commitment to a lithium oxygen battery with disruptive potential to “bank” an extremely long reserve of range, the only question remaining is when. (I have a very strong feeling that the geniuses at IBM may have hinted to Elon on some absolutes, but this is ***only*** just one of those uncanny feelings I get on very rare occasions.)
I saw Elon on a TV interview, and the way that he explains his technologies can never be carried forward/adequately explained to anyone by anyone else but himself. I like Mr. Musk’s logic and drive, where in the past I had previously been skeptical as were and are currently many people. I have exactly the same problem with my services. They can not be marketed to shops by outside sales pro’s at all, (even though they are simple, entertaining, and instantly totally-effective to use (excuse the plug)), so, here I am planning a college for techs to be advanced rapidly in 30 days of concentrated curricula, which I hope “Crowd Funding” may fund next January.
The lesson for me is that a video carries far more credibility than ever anyone can say about you in the positive (and certainly as an answer/counter to a negative).
Elon will succeed. I just know it.
The inertia for getting a line of products (EV’s) up an running on an assembly line just in time for new battery chemistries and ranges is the right thing to do at this point.
+1
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:01 pm)Thomas J. Thias,
Jeff does not “”Parrot”.
There is not a more thorough original thinker and writer ANYWHERE!!! PERIOD!!! And, it is exceptionally offensive to hear someone not have the decency to appreciate the articulate technical depth, editorial craftsmanship, and intellectual acuity that Mr. Cobb provides the planet many times per week.
Your comment and indifference to these facts is unwelcome, absurd, and crude.
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:08 pm)DonC,
$65k vehicles (including diesel pickups) are very common where I work. Although I only paid $13k for the HEMI, the original MSRP was $38k.
Add in the SRT8 Challengers, ‘Vettes, Modded Mustangs, and the occasional Farrari and Porsches and there are a good number that easily top $60k.
Plus, one lowly (price-wise) Volt.
-2
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:39 pm)If Elon really wanted to make a difference, he would make entry-level BEVs in the sub $30K range. His entry-level price idea is pretty high when most entry-level cars from the showroom are $17K today. With USD depreciation, that’ll be $18K in no time – for a base Sonic or Cruze. And the competition is hot and heavy from Korea in the form of Kia and Hyundai and from Japan in terms of Scion. If his goal is to have green-shoots in his lifetime, he needs to have a factory making 30-50K BEVs a year, affordable and in serious demand. He would also buy the GM plant back from Fisker in Delaware and use that on the east coast for cranking out a good supply. Hand finishing luxury cars in California is one thing but “cranking them out” in a real factory setting is still foreign to Tesla.
-3
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:49 pm)Did Tesla ever sort out their batter bricking problem? Last I knew, a Roadster used 50% of its battery capacity thermally managing the battery in just a weeks time, then it takes a more conservative approach after that.
If you ask me, that makes the Roadster more inefficient than a Hummer. Over 100 miles worth of battery energy just to manage the battery’s temperature in a weeks time?! That is simply awful design practice, and will lead to an epic fail of their product line.
-1
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:50 pm)nasaman,
l just wish you would have entered the cost of the replacement battery and installation into your comparison. and seeing as you mentionned 12 years possibly a percentage of the new battery that might have been installed after 8 years.might change the numbers a bit….
jest sayin’
HaroldC
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:53 pm)http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/bboaze/Volt_hitch-hiker-Afraid_Tesla_zpsde8d3be5.jpg
Sep 19th, 2012 (8:59 pm)l just put to rest a 20 yr old dodge caravavan awd. Only because of rust….not the 330k miles on it with no major repairs needed.
Point being there is a possibility to end up replacing 3 battery units in a Volt over that time and mileage. Are we sure that a transmission (Godknows what a Volt tranny swap would cost after warranty) would last that long ? It is possibleA Cruze might still be still be cruisin’ along.
just thinking…..
HaroldC
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:50 pm)More than 2 less than 2,000,000
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:51 pm)I thought maybe they were using different chemistries based on the pack size in the S.
I see that it’s Coda that’s using the LIFPO4
Sep 19th, 2012 (10:58 pm)Just a heads up for all, there’s a web chat with Andrew Farah this weekend on GM’s site for National Plug In Day.
Sep 19th, 2012 (11:25 pm)Another great story, Jeff!
+1
Sep 20th, 2012 (1:48 am)When you typically drive 30 miles a day and sometimes take off for a weekend for a 200 mile trip to a bed and breakfast, why would you lug around an ICE that’s useful for only a 350+ mile trip. Call it convenience, call it range anxiety call it the freedom to drive across country when ever I want without renting a car 3-times-in-a-lifetime-syndrome.
What ever you call we HAVE beaten that horse to death, and until it’s rotted carcass is finally buried, some will prefer to drive around with rarely fired ICE’s, and other will want to drive with 250 miles of dead-weight batteries.
Sep 20th, 2012 (11:19 am)Having two cars means more money for registration, insurance, and in my state property taxes. If the Volt works, there’s no good reason for me to have something like a Model S too. Now if cost isn’t a big consideration, well then go for it.
Sep 21st, 2012 (3:28 pm)HaroldC:
l just put to rest a 20 yr old dodge caravavan awd. Only because of rust….not the 330k miles on it with no major repairs needed.
Point being there is a possibility to end up replacing 3 battery units in a Volt over that time and mileage. Are we sure that a transmission (Godknows what a Volt tranny swap would cost after warranty) would last that long ? It is possibleA Cruze might still be still be cruisin’ along.
just thinking…..
HaroldC
—I would personally rather take financial chances with replacing individual cells packs on a thermally managed aging battery than the complexity that is the automatic transmission, especially for a lot of stop and go driving or living in a hilly area (think Pittsburgh). There is also the possibility of unknowingly purchasing a vehicle having high automatic transmission costs: i.e. automatic transmissions on 2001 era Honda Accords are known to have a design flaw (check Edmunds.com, believe someone there had theirs replaced 5 times).
Sep 25th, 2012 (11:31 pm)“No matter how one looks at it, even with extremely-high charging rate public chargers located —say— on a massive grid every 0.1mile north & south across the entire US & Canada, any “pure” EV driver will still HAVE TO STOP for a recharge when required. ”
Your lack of vision is right in line with your belief that the complex ER-EV hybrid technology is superior to the much simpler pure EV technology. Wireless inductive charging imbedded under the roadway so EV drivers would never need to stop for recharge is more realistic than public chargers every 0.1mile (which there practically is right now if you count all those 120V everywhere)
The Chevy Volt is like smoking a light cigarette. Still causes cancer and still supports the tabacco industry.
FACT: The Chevy Volt requires gas to operate. There are plenty of Pure Electric drivers right now proving there is no need to comprimise.
Oct 2nd, 2012 (1:13 pm)HaroldC,
The only way you could get there first is with two stressed out unhealthy drivers driving 24/7.
You have no understanding of the spiritual virtues of pure EV driving.
Oct 2nd, 2012 (1:20 pm)ClarksonCote,
First ofd all allow me to explain to Jeremy’s bitch that TESLA ROADSTERS do not BRICK !! Out of 2,200 units sold five idiots who did not charge their cars bricked them in the same manner that someone who does put oil, water or coolant in an ICE messes up a gas car !
Rafael de Mestre has driven his ROADSTER number 507 on a single journey of 28,000KM around the world !! Including crossing the Gobi desert !!