As the U.S. Volt will sell possibly past 12,000 units year-to-date by the end of August, sales of the Volt and Ampera elsewhere are also increasing but as you know, by not as much.
UPDATED 9:15 a.m. EST: In Europe, the Ampera is the hands-down favorite over the Volt having sold 3,475 year-to-date since its March launch and 617 in the month of July compared to possibly not even a couple hundred Volts thus far.
Chevrolet is taking a more relaxed approach in selling the Bowtie badged E-REVs, and while not given an exact figure for July, we were told that Chevrolet of Europe will sell possibly fewer Volts than even tiny Canada will this year.
Year-to-date Canada has sold 600 Volts, with 61 moved last month, but European Chevy spokesperson Cornelia Harodt said via e-mail briefly while traveling that she did not have exact European numbers, but did divulge Volt sales will be quite limited initially telling me they would only sell “a couple hundreds” of the Volt.
“What I can say is that we, from the very beginning, decided to be very conservative and ramp-up slowly with a strong focus on retail sales to individual customers,” Harodt said yesterday.
Today she replied with more details.
“Volt is popular and an important image car for Chevrolet in Europe, helping us to raise awareness for the brand. In the European market Chevrolet is a new brand. We relaunched Chevrolet only six years ago. The brand is growing share year over year, and the new product portfolio – including Volt – is helping us to win new customers, but still Chevrolet is a small player in the European market with 1.5 percent market share,” she said. “We expect about 1,000 to 1,300 Volt sales in Europe in 2012. We focus on retail customers while Opel also supplies a number of larger fleets. We also do not sell Volt in Central and Eastern Europe. This is in line with our allocation for 2012. We started selling in late 2011 in Switzerland. The other markets followed in spring 2012 around April timeframe.
Volt Markets in Europe are: Germany, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Netherlands and Luxemburg, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Finland, Austria, UK.
Expectation of 1,000-1,300 contrasts markedly from what we’ve been hearing since last year about the Ampera which is allocated 10,000 units this year, and may sell all of them as markets continue expanding.
Opel spokesman Rux also said yesterday he too lacked more-specific numbers as they track multiple markets compared to the U.S. which has more direct and organized reporting, or so it appears.
“Unfortunately I don’t have a concrete country by country breakdown yet,” Rux said, “but I can tell you that the Netherlands, Germany, UK and Switzerland are the major countries based on the experiences from the previous months.”
Chevy of Europe’s Harodt said she could answer more questions toward the end of the week, and I have several already to ask, but will also check your comments to add to the info gathering to see what we can see.
Since some of you have been asking about Europe and it’s well into August now, I thought I’d turn over what I have at this point, and will try to report again if I can get more info given barriers of an ocean, native language, and at least six hours time difference between us and European GM spokespeople.
For now, we have more mysteries, but at least you get the big picture, and don’t feel like you’re alone, as related limited-info reports are going on over there as well.
Take for example UK competition against the plug-in Prius. Last Wednesday TotallyMotor reported about “Prius vs. Ampera: cost wars.”
As it turns out, both competitors get the same £5,000 government subsidy, so “the Prius costs £28,630 to the Ampera’s £32,250 pricetag. Toyota is also trumpeting a 90-minute battery charging time compared to four hours for the Ampera, with electricity costs for the charging process estimated at 50p and £2.20 respectively,” says the report. “Both cars use a wee bit of petrol – Toyota says the cost per mile for fuel plus electricity to come in at 3.9p for the Prius and 4.4p for the Ampera. The cost of the Prius over three years is determined to be £36,272 and £38,130 for the Ampera.”
Sounds pretty close, doesn’t it? Car buyers in the UK might want to take a good look at the Toyota. The article continues:
“These costings where calculated by independent car data specialist Kwikcarcost, which also estimated that the Prius is cheaper in terms of cost-per-mile than the Peugeot 508 Hybrid4 saloon as well as the Ampera, with the Prius at 60.45p, the 508 at 69.12p and the Ampera at 63.55p,” continued the report. “It’s a dizzying array of data and we eagerly await Vauxhall and Peugeot’s response to these figures … ”
Did someone neglect to mention the Ampera’s all-electric range and other advantages … ? Yes, but maybe it’ll be reported elsewhere.
So what do you think? The writeup suggests it could be less expensive to own and operate the PIP over the Vauxhall Ampera …
This entry was posted on Tuesday, August 7th, 2012 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+24
Aug 7th, 2012 (6:26 am)Only if you drive enough miles in the Ampera to use gasloine. If not the Ampera is the clear winner.
+3
Aug 7th, 2012 (6:49 am)We can now get some insight as to possible reasoning why Vauxhall introduced the a lower cost configuration Ampera. The sales volume/price equation for best short and medium term profit (or least loss) must be hard to determin at the moment.
It seems strange to compare PIP with the Volt – horses for different courses. If it’s just cost of ownership, then there are many more effective and more humble options available.
- Malcolm
+19
Aug 7th, 2012 (6:56 am)I have a 14 mile round trip commute and from most of the reporting i read the PIP would be perfect for me. Being an informed GM-Volt reader I know that in reality the PIP would serve little better than my current 2005 prius in lessening my dependence oil. My commute is .5 miles (Uphill 50 MPH) + 6 miles highway (70 MPH) + another .5 miles secondary roads (40 MPH Downhill).
I outfited my 2005 Prius with an electric only button so I can force it into electric mode. This allows me to get to the main road but i can’t get up the large hill without the gas engine kicking on because the way you have to feather the throttle would have me going backwards trying to stay all electric. Then on the highway at 70 MPH since the gas engine just came on it rev’s high for 5 minutes while it gets up to temperature and at that point I’m getting off the highway and coasting down to work. Even hypermiling I can’t break 50 MPG with my commute and usually sit at 33 MPG in the winter (Philly Area) and 40 MPG in the summer. I don’t drive too much like a jackass but my commute just doesn’t lend itself to my 2005 Prius.
I suspect that the PIP will operate in much the same way for my commute although I would hope that I could push the accelerator just a little harder before the gas engine kicks in. Unless someones commute is sub 55 MPH for less than 14 miles with no need to do more than feather the gas pedal I think the PIP is useless for the $$$. If you have a real long commute where the Volt would be using gas much of the time the baseline Prius would work best (Better be one Long commute to count out the volt).
Back a few years ago and I”m going to be lazy and not look it up I seem to remember an article Lyle published of a Toyota exec stating that they “could” just put a bigger battery in the prius but that the current prius is the optimal configuration and a bigger battery would just be wasted dead weight for very little MPG gain. That execs statement stuck with me and I see the PIP as a Toyota attempt to not be left behind while spending as little $$$ on engineering a true volt competitor as possible. With all the Prii they sell it was probably a good plan in the short term. From a long term perspective I just don’t see a better technical solution or value than the volt.
I’m still waiting for my Voltec Minivan or 7 passenger vehicle. I can’t justify buying a Volt with 2 kids and 1 on the way if I’m only ever going to commute by myself it it. I’m too cheap and will just drive my prius into the ground and have a bland boring commute. Come on GM get us a Volt that seats more people!
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:16 am)It’s July, August. Europe is on vacation. How can we expect that all their accountants are on the ball and working hard now?
I really do think the USA does about the best job in business accounting versus places like Europe due to our common language and accountability during the process of delivery. One has to wonder just why the CEO of Opel was let go this year (fourth CEO in three years).
+7
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:35 am)So these figures come from Toyota, not exactly an unbiased source. Obviously based on a trip that uses the full tank of gas.
+5
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:39 am)For Canada, my understanding is that the Volt is still only available in limited markets, as this is still the first year it is available here. Official launch date was at the start of Oct 2011 I believe. I got mine September 23rd 2011.
By population Canada is about 1/10th the size of the US, so if you took Canada’s, not year full year of sales of 600, per capita, Canada’s adoption might even be ahead of the US figures for the first year of sales?
There have been many posts here in the past, with Canadians saying they couldn’t get a Volt without a six month wait.
Just recently have I seen my dealer actually have a couple of Volts in stock, and on display.
+4
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:41 am)“Toyota says the cost per mile for fuel plus electricity to come in at 3.9p for the Prius and 4.4p for the Ampera….. So what do you think? The writeup suggests it could be less expensive to own and operate the PIP over the Vauxhall Ampera …”
——————-
I doubt that. I’m averaging 230w/mile on my commute in. That’s using no gas. In a PiP, I would be using gas everyday. I think whoever wrote that article assumed gas would be used in the Ampera, and they used the CS mpg figures.
+7
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:42 am)The figures in the TotallyMotor article are based on 20,000 miles annually (55 miles per day or 64 miles per day if you only drive 6 days out of 7), so yes they are assuming you push the Ampera beyond the electric range every day. Also the breakdown of the figures I found on another site showed them assuming £2.20 per charge for the Ampera which either means they’ve found very expensive electricity, or they’ve found electricity at pretty much the typical UK price but assumed each charge is the full 16kWh capacity of the battery.
+13
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:42 am)If cost was the only metric, BMW, Porche, Jaguar etc. would be out of business.
+3
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:45 am)I completely agree! I did go ahead and buy a volt for my commute, though. I have 2 kids with 1 on the way, so it will not be able to be my family car for long. Unfortunately, my other vehicle is a Chevy Suburban which I need to pull my boat and camper.
+10
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:49 am)Under a very specific set of conditions, like a long trip could the Prius be cheaper than the VOLT.
However for everyday use the VOLT is cheaper than the Plug-in Prius to use and while the Prius will use petrol in it’s 11 mile blended EV range the VOLT does not use any petrol at all for that range. The VOLT typically runs the first 37-50 miles on all electric power and this is actual VOLT drivers’ experience.
So the article seems to have bought the Toyota lines….hook, line, and sinker. And with that I am waiting for the next car company to come out with a 0.5 kWh plug-in car that can recharge it’s battery in 6 minutes on a Level 2 charger…lol.
+3
Aug 7th, 2012 (9:24 am)The article is updated. New emails from Rux and Harodt have helped clear up ambiguities.
+4
Aug 7th, 2012 (9:56 am)Duncan,
Ha, what a great data-fudge job by Toyota. I can do the same thing. Let’s say my commute is 30 miles each way and I can plug in at work. I travel 75mph each way, with 10 stop lights on the way. Gasoline cost $10/gallon, and electricity is 4 cents/kwh.
+3
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:03 am)Jeff Cobb,
So about ~4000 Voltec vehicles in Europe this year, 10,666 in the US? That’s almost 15K and its we have 5 more months to go for 2012. Hamtramck has produced 30K total.
+7
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:24 am)For those who love the electric experience of driving without a noisy ICE engine, the Volt and Ampera give the luxury experience 100% of the time until the battery needs a charge. The PIP will never allow that quality when you have to accelerate to highway speed.
More battery range = more cost = a more satisfying experience
+8
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:42 am)A Toyota Prius feels like a cheap rattle trap compared to the Volt. Smooth electronic luxury is the new standard for electric. Gotta love it. In fairness, after driving electric, even my cozy Lincoln MKX feels noisy and shaky compared to the unbelievable ride of THE VOLT in EV mode.
The easy way to decide is a test drive. There’s a reason the Prius is the number one car traded in for a Volt. CHEVY VOLT: Built here, and fueled by the home country. Foreign oil and OPEC is the drain on our great nation.
+2
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:44 am)I guess this graph DonC found would help again.
+6
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:54 am)Of course it will cost less to charge the Toyota’s battery! It’s much smaller than the Ampera’s, and is why the Toyota’s EV range is far less. Duh!
Vauxhall should simply say, one charge with the Ampera is worth three to four stops to recharge with the Toyota.
+2
Aug 7th, 2012 (11:14 am)This is a nice video of the Opel Ampera on Opel’s site.
http://www.opel.com/vehicles-and-services/opel-range.html
And look what I found in the “concept” area. Same as Flextreme from 2008, but updated. Will we ever get our “Saturn” Flextreme?
Looks quite a bit different than the GT ver did in 2010
http://gm-volt.com/2010/03/06/opel-flextreme-gte-concept-debuts-in-person-at-geneva-auto-show/
+5
Aug 7th, 2012 (11:37 am)#15
God’s truth. +1
This morning i had my first experience of standing outside my Volt while somebody else moved it out of the parking lot. Even after all this time I was astounded by how eerily quiet it was. Every bit of silence is golden in our noisy urban environment.
Go Volt!
Aug 7th, 2012 (11:38 am)gsned57,
You should consider Ford C-MAX Energy. This will be real Volt competitor.
media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=36892
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (11:40 am)#14
Of all of the wonderful attribute of the Voltec system, the ability to export cars from the U.S. to Europe must be he delicious frosting on the cake.
I LOVE it! +1
+3
Aug 7th, 2012 (11:44 am)#6
Well hooray for you guys. It’s always a pleasure to see our friends from “The Great White North” commenting here.
Thanks. +1
+2
Aug 7th, 2012 (11:44 am)#21
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh, LOL.
+6
Aug 7th, 2012 (12:02 pm)The Energi is only has a 20 mile range (so they say), and I’m sure that’s if you don’t drive at freeway speeds. GM said the #1 complaint about the 2011/2012 Volt was the EV range, so they increased it by 3 miles. I think cutting it in half to 20miles, or cutting it to 1/3, 11 miles like the PiP, is going in the wrong direction. Drivers will not be happy with this. I went to Detroit this past weekend, and thus my range extender came on. It was a 100 mile + trip so I was OK with that. But if it came on every day, I would be upset.
+4
Aug 7th, 2012 (1:03 pm)I’m not surprised the Ampera is selling much faster than the Volt. Opel is a well established brand in Europe, Chevrolet is not. Think about it, if you were going to buy one, where will you go? The local Opel dealer, of which there may be several in your town, or to the rare dealer, who probably is an Opel dealer, many miles away?
+7
Aug 7th, 2012 (1:26 pm)“Toyota is also trumpeting a 90-minute battery charging time compared to four hours for the Ampera, with electricity costs for the charging process estimated at 50p and £2.20 respectively,”
My other car (an ICE) beats the PiP. It take 0 hours to charge and $0 in electricity.
+2
Aug 7th, 2012 (2:23 pm)Good one. Obviously Toyota doesn’t think much of their customers’ intelligence. Resting on the assumption that most people don’t understand that it’s the rate of charging that counts, it’s insulting to think that someone would be so stupid as not to understand that charging a half sized battery in half the time is a disadvantage, as aptly proved by your example.
What kind of person does Toyota think is your typical PIP buyer? LOL
Aug 7th, 2012 (3:24 pm)Interestingly, Toronto is due-East of Detroit. When I lived in Niagara Falls NY, Canada was due-West of us. And, due-North as well.
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (3:40 pm)Same here in the Montreal area. Just recently am I seeing Volts in stock and they finally decided to put them in front of their parking lot, in full display.
Aug 7th, 2012 (4:19 pm)So I’ve been following that one as well and 20 Mile AER would certainly be enough for my commute but I’d still prefer at least 6 seats but 7 preferably (My wife and I aren’t planning on stopping at 3 kids so if my family gets bigger I’d like to try and stay ahead of the curve)
From the sound of everything I’ve read about the Ford (not too much out there yet) it should beat the Prius hands down.
Aug 7th, 2012 (4:23 pm)Congrats on number 3. I have to believe that once Volt sales pick up (I see them following the trajectory that the prius did 10 years ago) GM will be more aggressive in moving their Voltec platform to bigger vehicles. I’ve driven a volt a few times now and after following its development for 5 years I’m a believer.
-9
Aug 7th, 2012 (4:45 pm)Assumptions based on older design & components are a reality every technology must face. Upgrades are a challenge to promote.
The 2012 plug-in system is able to draw quite a bit more from the battery-pack. I climb out of the valley everyday using only electricity. It’s no big deal.
Same thing. The “current” reference is quite outdated at this point.
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (5:08 pm)Just a quick OT recommendation regarding temperature ratings of tires you might buy.
If you drive in the areas of ;the country that have far more very hot days as we have been seeing in the last two years, and you drive
at high speeds, then only consider buying temperature rated tires that are classified as
“A”, not “AB” (and certainly never “B” or “C”).
+4
Aug 7th, 2012 (5:59 pm)A 6 month wait for a Volt up here? I received a call on the weekend telling me my Volt status has changed to “built”, so with any luck my wait will be less than 4 months.
So looking forward to not having to feather the gas pedal to keep it in electric (Escape hybrid).
Cost per mile stats for a car vs a car just doesn’t work with these plug ins.
I think a colour chart showing mileage of a commute of 0 to 100 miles would show exactly what car is better suited for a particular commute. Obviously anything under 40 miles, the Volt is the clear winner, I’m guessing at 60 + miles is where a “PIP” might start to make sense..,if you’re only taking fuel economy into account. Comfort & style have played a small role in my decision.
Aug 7th, 2012 (6:13 pm)Shhhhhh………John’s back!!
-11
Aug 7th, 2012 (6:21 pm)(click to show comment)
+3
Aug 7th, 2012 (6:50 pm)#35
I’m taking that as the famous Canadian understatement, LOL. +1
They played a BIG role in my decision. Style in the sense that it’s a good looking and distinctive car, and also the sort of “fashion statement” to be made about pushing to advance automotive technology, push back against oil imports, and make a tiny contribution to “saving the planet”.
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:34 pm)Neither do you.
You’re an @$$, next topic please.
+2
Aug 7th, 2012 (8:53 pm)I have to admit that if I had a choice I would pick the Ampera as well over the Volt, although it may be the same car underneath the looks of the Ampera are definitely nicer, sportier, and more futuristic or modern may be the better word.
I also agree with some of the other commenters there needs to be 5 seats especially if you need to haul 3 kids around or 2 kids and a friend in the back so 2 big kids(aka Adults) have seats in front. In the words of the biggest motoring show in the world, “How hard can it be?”, c’mon GM, do a redesign on that battery back so you can get the five seats or get a EREV/PHEV MPV model underway.
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:44 pm)This exact topic was covered (a couple months ago?) on GM-Volt.com. Charts & all were provided. Let me see if I can find it.
EDIT: Found it. It was from February and it was comparing the regular Prius, not the PiP. Looks like break even was 90 miles according to this data.
http://gm-volt.com/2012/02/23/mpg-comparison-2012-volt-vs-2010-prius/
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:49 pm)TassieEV,
I understand the need/want of some for a 5 seater, but just wanted to say if one was available I would still choose the current Volt. I really like the bucket seats in the back. The rear console is nice too. Here’s a pic of mine.
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:50 pm)Since i’m posting pics. Here’s some rubber mats I added to the back (also added deep rubber floor mats too). I know this adds a little weight, but you need this in Michigan when the snow/slush starts flying.
+3
Aug 7th, 2012 (10:52 pm)Hahaha feels like old times John although now we aren’t waiting for our dream cars to arrive they are here and ready. I’m glad to hear your pip is working out for you and since I havent tested one yet I’ll reserve judgement. I gotta tell you though from an after rebate price for comparably equipped cars the pip doesn’t have a price advantage. The volt is leaps and bounds more luxurious than my 05 Prius and it’ll take a good test drive to convince me Toyota upped their Prius product that much in the last few years(father in law has a 2010 Prius so I’m well versed in the 3rd gen). Just to clarify I’ve never owned a gm product and had no use for them prior to the volt. The volt has me interested in their whole lineup although I’m officially in the npns camp at this point
+1
Aug 7th, 2012 (11:48 pm)I couldn’t agree more, kdawg! I’ve ALWAYS liked the Volt’s rear bucket seats and the new rear console you show looks just great! With this interior the rear passengers can be in seats just as comfortable and sporting as those in front —have you seen the BMW $74,400 6-series cramped
rear seating? Have a look…
Who would want to sit in the middle, “hugging” the front/center console with his legs???
PS: As in most compacts, a Volt rear center seat would really only be comfortable for a child anyhow!
Aug 8th, 2012 (1:21 am)Wonder what holds back GM selling Volts in Canada… GM getVolts out there and sell them in canada… is it the production constraint? transporting the Volts to canada a constraint? What gives!
Aug 8th, 2012 (7:53 am)ArkansasVolt,
I agree with you and gsned. I went to VIA Motors website to look into get one of their EREV-converted Suburbans, but the price tag is unfortunately a no-go. I will fork out money to get off oil, even into the $40,000+ range, but $79,000 for a Suburban simply isn’t feasible. I’m hoping GM will give us an EREV Equinox or something similar soon so the wife and kids can ride in the car with me. Then again, I do enjoy having autonomous control over the radio…
Aug 8th, 2012 (3:05 pm)It is inappropriate to evaluate payback in 3 years. Payback should be evaluated in the life of the car & battery — not the timespan of an individual’s ownership — because it should be expected that subsequent resale values will adjust for fuel savings throughout the life of the car & battery. Resale values of the Prius have reflected this trend — with particular benefit when gas prices rise.