Feb 15

30-second Volt commercial airs on Fox

 

General Motors has been airing a brief Volt commercial on Fox News the past few days focusing on a few core facts.

The ad has run during The O’Reilly Factor time slot, possibly at other times as well, and also being aired is the familiar Detroit-Hamtramck commercial.

According to GM Spokesman Rob Peterson, the company is gratified that after all the adverse press the Volt has received, it is a solid product and something the facts prove General Motors can be proud of.

Last year and into this year a variety of publications reported allegations ranging from purported low demand, to Chevy dealers “gaming” the tax credit, to a couple house fires where Volts had been parked, and alleged battery safety issues.

From our view it was almost like a game of dog pile on the rabbit (if you remember your Bugs Bunny cartoons), but through all the mudslinging, politicizing and polemics, the Volt has come out on top looking smarter than ever.

In designing the Volt, Peterson added that GM took great care and established around 200 patents or more on technology that will benefit not just the Volt, but other vehicles from mild hybrids to full electric.

These vehicles, including the 2013 Spark EV, pending Cadillac ELR, and even mild hybrids like the new Malibu Eco with eAssist are intended to reduce dependence on oil, benefit the environment, and are just some of the beneficiaries from the Volt’s development.

So the Volt is not merely a “halo” car, it was also a concerted effort that has spun off and will continue to spin off innovations that stand to improve many vehicles for the world’s largest automaker.

The effort to build the Volt – which many here at GM-Volt have followed for years – has been called a “moon shot” and as the commercial succinctly says, the Volt remains a safe and well-engineered vehicle.

No doubt also GM is hoping the worst is behind it, and having weathered the storm created by critics whose motives have themselves been called into question, the Volt is in position for a production run of as many as 60,000 units world wide this year, although GM has said it may trim this if needed.

The company has said it is essentially starting over in “re-launching” the Volt, and this commercial and other ongoing efforts are part of that.

It goes without saying that GM-Volt wishes it well, but really, we know the car will rise on its own merits as more and more people are coming to see that it’s hard to argue with the facts.

——————————————————————————————————————————————————–

Dear GM-Volt Readers: We value everyone’s feedback on our daily stories, but – please – don’t post breaking news or other stories that we could be working on as a post here. Doing this will help ensure fresh daily discussions, and will be better for everyone. If you would instead, please e-mail story ideas to jcobb@verticalscope.com Thank you!

———————————————————————————————————————————————————

This entry was posted on Wednesday, February 15th, 2012 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 94


  1. 1
    nasaman

    +21

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (6:20 am)

    From the lead article: “The effort to build the Volt – which many here at GM-Volt have followed for years – has been called a “moon shot” and as the commercial succinctly says, the Volt remains a safe and well-engineered vehicle… …The company has said it is essentially starting over in “re-launching” the Volt, and this commercial and other ongoing efforts are part of that…”

    Great topic today, Jeff! One I can personally relate to as a long-term follower of GM-Volt. In fact, this is the 2nd “moon shot” I’ve been involved in (the 1st was NASA’s Apollo program in the 60′s). And it’s also the 2nd “re-launch” effort (my 1st was our re-start of Apollo after the Apollo 1 disaster that killed 3 astronauts). GM, you can re-launch the Volt by “doubling down” the effort (just as was done on Apollo), and the harmful negative publicity Volt has suffered from will be MORE than over- come —just as it was following that lethal Apollo 1 fire that threatened to kill the moon launch!


  2. 2
    Kup

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kup
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:19 am)

    I could be wrong but wasn’t that a real Volt owner and a GM-Volt.com forum member in the commercial plugging in his Volt? I’m forgetting his name at the moment but he is in the military, created a video explaining the Volt and had a section in his video where he is showing how to plug in the Volt. I remember him doing it in a Hawaiian shirt and he had the short military hair cut. Anybody else pick up on that or am I just imagining things?


  3. 3
    pdt

    +14

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    pdt
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:23 am)

    The one fact they don’t mention in this commercial is that the Volt can use gas to go as far as you want without plugging in. This is by far the most important little known fact about the Volt among people I have spoken with about the Volt.


  4. 4
    George S. Bower

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:23 am)

    I’m not thrilled with it but I guess the add is OK.


  5. 5
    JeremyK

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JeremyK
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:31 am)

    George S. Bower,

    Sadly, many of the Fox viewers will have to be spoon-fed and hand-held until they can process information on the Volt in an objective manner.


  6. 6
    atl-jb

    +12

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    atl-jb
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:31 am)

    Going on the offensive, finally. Good job GM!!


  7. 7
    Jim Fallston Md.

    +11

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim Fallston Md.
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:32 am)

    They are definetly starting to get better. Not great but better.


  8. 8
    James McQuaid

    +14

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    James McQuaid
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:38 am)

    That is an excellent advertisement. Great job G.M.!


  9. 9
    Jim I

    +23

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:58 am)

    No Chevy Dancers???

    No Llamas????

    No bathroom or junk food references???

    What is going on here?

    Can Chevy actually be trying to sell the Volt?

    I really, really, really hope so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    JMHO

    :)

    C-5277 – Proudly purchased in Youngstown, Ohio – 10-04-2011


  10. 10
    Ron

    +20

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ron
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:04 am)

    Running it on FoxNews the last line says a lot – “Hard to argue with the facts”


  11. 11
    Loboc

    +13

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:32 am)

    I have not seen this one even though I watch Fox some. The one with the assembly line running down the street is running on the Velocity channel back to back.

    I like this one. Just the facts, maam.


  12. 12
    Kup

    +14

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kup
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:55 am)

    Kup,

    Ah, I was right! The guy in the video plugging in his Volt is Jason Cullinane. He posted a video and written review on the Volt on this here forum. Here is a link:

    http://gm-volt.com/2012/01/09/chevy-volt-review-video/

    So, for all of us gm-volt.com people who say that GM should listen to us, not only are they listening to us, they are directly “stealing” material from this site!


  13. 13
    bobbydrake75

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    bobbydrake75
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:59 am)

    They are still selling the car all wrong. They need to focus on finding the sweet spot. Find the % of people that commute 25 miles, tell them the amount that they can save every versus a car that gets 30-35MPG with silimar acceleration and handling. Explain how for the average days commute you will use no gas and that on the weekend we drove 140 miles to my parents house. “Let’s see a leaf do that!” Finish with a real person that shows there gauge, I drove 1200 miles on 2 gallons of gas. With the electric cost that work out to 80+MPG(this is not a real calculation but do the real one in the commercial with the cost of electric included). My 2 cents …


  14. 14
    Raymondjram

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Raymondjram
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:05 am)

    I like this commercial, although I dislike the use of small worded explanations at the lower part of the screen. They are added details, but the text is so small and are on the screen for a too short time that one must pay attention each time the commercial appears, or one must record the commercial on a DVR (which I have two) and watch the commercial slowly and pausing the images to read the small text.

    GM shoud make most of that small text larger or part of the spoken words. Another method is to create newer commercials explaining those deatils in depth, and even create a series of commercials, so that everyone knows that there are more than one, and searches for the others. Adding scenes with real Volt owners and their experiences (most GM-Volt forum members will gladly participate) show the truth about the Chevy Volt and other future vehicles.

    BTW, on the ads of the imports, the images show a very sporting and risky drive scene, but the small text (which I bet that many never bother to read) says “Professional driver. Closed course. Do not attempt.” That is proof that the imports are fooling the observer to believe that their product can do everything shown, since most small-minded buyers never read that text and prefer to assume that they can drive like that ad if they buy that product (I bet they don’t read the owners manuals, either). Then the imports say that their ads promote safety driving because they put those small text warnings. That is a lot of BS! Yet many young drivers fall face first into those false images, and sadly spend their money (and probably lose their lives later). That must be stopped!

    GM, as America’s largest vehicle manufacturer, should continue to create truthful ads and commercials to educate all drivers, promote more EVs and EREVs, preview the newer EVs and other hybrid technologies (where are the eAssists ads?) and recover the safe and solid image of the best vehicles on the roads.

    Raymond


  15. 15
    Charlie H

    -21

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:09 am)

    (click to show comment)


  16. 16
    montgoss

    +13

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    montgoss
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:17 am)

    bobbydrake75:
    They are still selling the car all wrong.They need to focus on finding the sweet spot.Find the % of people that commute 25 miles, tell them the amount that they can save every versus a car that gets 30-35MPG [...]

    That’s a dangerous approach. It’s REALLY hard to justify the Volt based on money savings. If someone is serious about saving money, they will not be shopping for a new car. They’ll be shopping for a used car. Those people looking at new cars only car about the money superficially. If you can’t sell them on the cool tech angle, the foreign-oil dependency angle, or the green angle, you’re not going to sell them on the Volt. At least not until the price comes down a lot or the price of gas goes up a lot…

    I love my Volt. But I always stop people when they start talking about how much money I’m saving. I tell them that I spend very little on gas, but I spend a large amount on those lease payments (forget saving money if you’re actually purchasing it with a 5 or 6 year loan).

    I’m not driving the Volt to save money. I’m driving the Volt to save lives! ;-)


  17. 17
    paul

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    paul
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:28 am)

    Charlie H,

    Charlie H,

    didn’t you leave out the $7500 tax credit from your calculation?


  18. 18
    montgoss

    +15

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    montgoss
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:30 am)

    Charlie H: They also can’t run the numbers without either using $40K as the Volt cost basis or reminding people that they’re paying a greater share in taxes so wealthy people can buy a Volt.

    Do people really think someone else getting a tax credit costs them extra money? Why do you think only wealthy people can take advantage of the tax credit?? It’s tax time, so let’s see what my W2 says… I paid well over $10k in just federal taxes last year and I earned well under $100k. It’s not like a tax credit only benefits millionaires here! If you make so little that you can’t take advantage of the full tax credit, then you’re not paying a very big share in taxes either…

    I’m sorry if you can’t afford a brand new car. But there’s no reason to hate on those of us that, with a little help from the government, can afford it. With our purchases, the production costs should come down and eventually, it might be cheap enough for you to buy one.


  19. 19
    George McDermand

    +13

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George McDermand
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:43 am)

    One of the problems in this country is the accountant mentality. In pure terms the only car to buy in economic terms is a used one. I ordered a Tesla to be part of the movement to reduce military spending. Same reason we will lease a Volt for the business. Most people do not understand that the military subsidy per gallon of gas is several dollars. But since that spending is part of the general fund the average person does not equate that. Kudos to the person who said they bought the Volt not to save money but to save lives.


  20. 20
    Kup

    +14

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kup
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:53 am)

    At the risk of feeding a troll….

    Charlie H., it’s time to put up or shut up. Yes, for some buyers the Prius makes more economical sense for others it’s the Volt. But this $17k difference crap is just plain annoying and you’ve been here damn well long enough to know that that figure is pure, unadulterated BS.

    So go ahead, price out a Prius that has the features of the base Volt. Show us your calculations. Show us the net effective price after tax implications. And then let us know if you still stand behind the $17k difference. Otherwise just shut the hell up with your propaganda.


  21. 21
    ronr64

    +25

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ronr64
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:54 am)

    Commuting is one thing but it is not the only thing a car gets used for. If it was, mass transportation would never have to be subsidized as it would be the transport of choice. When discussing the Volt, or any electric type car, the opponents always bring up the long trip problem. Which with a pure electric is a real problem but with the Volt, as we all know, is not a problem but there are plenty of vehicles that would get better mpg and are cheaper to buy then the Volt for longer trips. But what is missed all the time is the many frequent short trips the average person takes. To the hardware store, to the grocery store, out to eat, visit friends or relatives that live just a few miles away, take the kids to practice, pick up the kids from practice, etc. etc. etc. These trips represent the absolute worst mileage any traditional gas engine vehicle will ever get. They never warm up so they are running rich, lots of stop and go, lots of idle time. These trips are where a Volt (or even an all electric) will really shine.

    As for Fox News I think it is a great place to advertise, no use in preaching to the choir, got to go where the sinners are! That said I will once again warn everyone against the temptation to lump people into groups and make the Volt a “our” car vs. “their” car. This country is roughly divided in half with each half thinking the other half is stupid. I got news for you – neither half is right. We are all stupid! :) No seriously though if one person buys the Volt because they are concerned about global warming and another person buys one because they are concerned about who we buy oil from and our trade deficit, why do you care what their motivation is?

    I am about as far to the right as you will find and I love the Volt and cringe every time I hear Rush lambaste it or one of the political commentators on Fox pick on it.
    But I know exactly where they are coming from. They are adamantly against the Govt bail out of private industry, they don’t believe in global warming, they don’t believe in subsidizing an expensive car bought by people with above average incomes. Whether you believe in each of those arguments is not the point. Lots of people do and whether they are right or wrong doesn’t matter. What does matter is that their opinion of the Volt, a car, is being skewed. If I as a right wing conservative guy can see through the BS and see the true beauty of this car than so can they. But it will never, ever happen if the argument is shaped as one of us versus them. If you insist that someone agrees with you on global warming. Or if they have to come around to your opinion on the bail out or the subsidies. You are asking people to change on their core beliefs in order to buy a car and that isn’t going to happen. If that is how you shape the argument then you have relegated the Volt as a car for only half of America.

    So quit with the “Faux News” and the “Rush Limpbaugh” BS and show conservatives how the Volt is their car too. If their main objection is the govt bailout then show them how Chrysler, Ford, BMW, Toyota, Harley Davidson, Volkswagen and many others also got govt money in various degrees during 2008. Yes GM was the biggest and is now govt owned. Do they wish to see their investment as a tax payer fail? The quickest way to end govt ownership is for GM to succeed and have the govt sell of there shares.

    Don’t believe in global warming? No problem, I bet they hate seeing all of our $$ going over seas. Electricity is domestically produced the fact that it is easier to control emissions at the smokestack instead of the tail pipe can be your little secret.

    You get the point. There are logical arguments that can be used to convince a conservative that these vehicles are the future with out trying to force them to cave on their core values and come over to your side.

    As I said I am a conservative and I love the Volt and I bet I am not the only one, not by far.

    Remember the father of the Volt, Bob Lutz is also a conservative from what I understand. Too bad he isn’t with GM anymore he could easily talk to the Neil Cavuto’s and Rush Limbaughs and if not convince them at least soften their objections. You can’t help but have a bit of a man-crush on old Bob.


  22. 22
    Unni

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Unni
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:02 am)

    Another commercial idea may be – find 10 existing owners and display their average fuel economy and life time fuel economy . Give emphasis on the energy crisis, saved gallons of gas, reduced imports , and reduced emissions and increased earth friendliness.

    I still look for more hybrids from GM (affordable strong ones on Sonic, Cruze, Equinox, Traverse ,Impala and Malibu( not the eASSist ) ) specially Sonic and cruze ones now as Prius C is set to have storm soon. Already rumors that gas going up will make prius Vs sell crazy and GM will stand like old time again. Putting equinox in competitive position on Prius V before summer may be a good idea. I think Ford also will have hybrid Fusions, Cmax out by that time.

    On increasing the tax credit :- i am against it. ex : Average Volt buyer income is $170000 per year. I dont want to make it 180k from my money as i make only fraction of it. 7500 should also end because the automakers are supposed to find reduction of costs (ex: as per Dan , volt will be V2.0 and 10k production cost will be gone ). so it can price at 30k. Making it 5 seat and midsize (even compact should be also ok ) , more people will look on it. So no tax rebates needed or it can be reduced to 2.5k hybrid tax rebate or so.


  23. 23
    Charlie H

    -23

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:05 am)

    (click to show comment)


  24. 24
    MichaelH

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    MichaelH
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:11 am)

    ronr64,

    Ron thank you very much for your well written post. +1 I was getting ready to pick on you for such a long comment, but after reading the whole thing, I see you had a lot of points to make. Those are the very points I was making to someone else over the past several days. (You know who you are. ;-) )


  25. 25
    Charlie H

    -22

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:18 am)

    (click to show comment)


  26. 26
    Kent

    +23

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:29 am)

    Kup:
    At the risk of feeding a troll….

    Charlie H., it’s time to put up or shut up.Yes, for some buyers the Prius makes more economical sense for others it’s the Volt.But this $17k difference crap is just plain annoying and you’ve been here damn well long enough to know that that figure is pure, unadulterated BS.

    So go ahead, price out a Prius that has the features of the base Volt.Show us your calculations.Show us the net effective price after tax implications.And then let us know if you still stand behind the $17k difference.Otherwise just shut the hell up with your propaganda.

    Isn’t it funny how there’s some people who hate the Volt so much yet they spend so much of their time on a Volt website?


  27. 27
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:44 am)

    ronr64: Remember the father of the Volt, Bob Lutz is also a conservative from what I understand. Too bad he isn’t with GM anymore he could easily talk to the Neil Cavuto’s and Rush Limbaughs and if not convince them at least soften their objections. You can’t help but have a bit of a man-crush on old Bob.

    Well I doubt that they’d be much interested in talking to “old Bob” since he’s been calling them out and ripping them a new one for being the “extreme right ‘talking head’ gas bags’ ” that they are. http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/02/13/rights-incendiary-talk-on-chevy-volt-will-burn-u-s-workers/ No love fest here.

    Personally I would bother with these people. They don’t represent 50% of the country. Hardly. More like 25% and, with each day, there are less of them since they are by and large old white people without a lot of runway left. The Volt is an upscale car and GM is going to have to figure out how to identify the demographic for it. My take would be that Fox and Rush listeners are, by and large, too old and not sufficiently interested in new technology to fit in that demographic. GM should just move on.


  28. 28
    Kup

    +10

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kup
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:50 am)

    Charlie H: If it’s not about saving the country, then why do we help wealthy people into this luxo-barge with an extra $7500?

    People buy the Volt for a lot of different reasons. But here’s one of the many reasons why I bought the Volt and believe it absolutely is leading us in a direction that will “save” the country.

    Oil is finite. There are approximately 1.4 Trillion barrells of “proven reserves”. Oil consumption is approximately 90 million barrells per day. Peak oil discovery was decades ago and we are on a very predictable downward slope for discovery. You start pondering those facts and come up to your own conclusion of when peak oil will hit. (And for those that are confused about Peak Oil, Peak Oil is a fact. Production of any finite resource will have to peak at some point and then decline. The implications of that fact is what can be disputed, not the fact that production will peak and decline).

    So if you believe that the American way of life is not negotiable (Cheney’s words) then you need to come up with a way to maintain some semblance of modern society without the heavy dependence on oil. The Volt is a way to dramatically cut fuel consumption (over 90 percent in my particular case) but the technology needs to improve and the costs of that technology need to come down. As a way to spur both of these developments and “save” the American way of life a tax credit to create a larger market is the VERY LEAST we can do.

    As a Republican I would prefer to see that this tax credit is paid for (ie we not add to the deficit) but that is not politically feasible in the current climate. Further, as a Republican, since I don’t like government intervention in the free market we should recognize how much we are subsidizing the true cost of our oil consumption. Price out the externalities associated with protecting the flow of oil from the Middle East and the damage (environmentally and health wise) done by our oil consumption and include it directly into the price of gas and you would get the true “free” market price of oil. But many of my fellow Republicans fail to pursue that line of logic and focus solely on the bail out and the tax credit distortions on the free market.


  29. 29
    Robert

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Robert
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:03 am)

    good commercial,
    but the fact is now GM is paying Fox News to counter the what they are saying. GM should pull all advertising from Fox, until they stop misrepresenting the truth, about GM I ( know this is fox News after all )
    Vote with your dollars.


  30. 30
    montgoss

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    montgoss
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:04 am)

    Charlie H:
    Further from a more rational perspective, is the car saving money or not? SOMEBODY has to put up the $7500 to fill in the MSRP.

    You still don’t understand what a tax credit is, huh? When someone buys a Volt at MSRP, the dealership and GM get that full MSRP from the buyer. GM is not getting any money from the government. The buyer is putting up that money (or more likely the bank in the buyer’s name). The tax credit just means, should the buyer claim that purchase on their taxes, the government will knock $7500 off their bill. The government is not paying out $7500 to anyone. They aren’t taking your money and giving it to me!


  31. 31
    flmark

    +7

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    flmark
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:20 am)

    ronr64 #21: “These trips represent the absolute worst mileage any traditional gas engine vehicle will ever get. They never warm up so they are running rich, lots of stop and go, lots of idle time. These trips are where a Volt (or even an all electric) will really shine.”

    Amen and Amen. I have pointed this out a few times, as well, but people like Charlie H continue to oversimplify the concept of how the Volt changes things.

    Another example: How many trips (errands and whatnot) are we now taking with the Volt that would have previously been taken in another car? [Pretext: I work at home] Previously, if we wanted to go out for dinner, I would have driven a second gas vehicle to meet my wife out for dinner after she finished at her office. Now (and we did this last night), wife comes home with Volt and we drive off together out to dinner on nothing but photons from the solar panels. So the Volt was used BEYOND commuting miles and INTO what the SECOND vehicle would have consumed. I am sure others have similar examples. The point is (to the Charlie H’s of the world): QUIT LOOKING AT JUST COMMUTING MILES AND USING A FREAKIN ABACUS WITH YOUR OBSOLETE, INACCURATE CALCULATIONS!!! The Volt, besides covering the warm up period with ICEs, is saving big gas dollars by being used MORE than a comparable household vehicle.


  32. 32
    Jackson

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:26 am)

    Charlie H: from a more rational perspective, is the car saving money or not? SOMEBODY has to put up the $7500 to fill in the MSRP. I’d say it counts on the savings.

    montgoss: You still don’t understand what a tax credit is, huh?When someone buys a Volt at MSRP, the dealership and GM get that full MSRP from the buyer. GM is not getting any money from the government.The buyer is putting up that money (or more likely the bank in the buyer’s name).The tax credit just means, should the buyer claim that purchase on their taxes, the government will knock $7500 off their bill.The government is not paying out $7500 to anyone. They aren’t taking your money and giving it to me!

    There is a political philosophy which “imputes” tax credits as “income.” In other words, this view sees all taxpayer money as belonging to the government; and that allowing those who earned the wealth to keep more of it is tantamount to their getting an increased “allowance.”

    So, from this perspective, any tax abatement or credit for the productive segment is a “gift” to actual taxpayers, at the expense of the Government’s ability to support entitlements for those who vote but don’t pay taxes (in the belief that those voters will support the Party more likely to approve an increase in their allowance).

    Therefore, the stated purpose of a tax credit — to encourage the growth of an industry, to promote energy savings or otherwise provide a “carrot” for desired productive behavior (as opposed to a penalty “stick”) — gets lost in jingoism: Theft from the “poor” to give to the “rich.” In fact, tax cuts and credits are frequently attempts at “pump-priming” which can lead to more wealth to tax. This would lead to increased overall revenues (even at lower rates).

    This leads to the inevitable question: Just who is stealing from who? Ultimately, the Country is stealing from itself.

    In many ways, the Liberal movement is willing to harm the source of wealth in order to redistribute that same wealth: an incoherent stance. This way lies bankruptcy.


  33. 33
    Charlie H

    -22

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:31 am)

    (click to show comment)


  34. 34
    Noel Park

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:37 am)

    DonC: My take would be that Fox and Rush listeners are, by and large, too old and not sufficiently interested in new technology to fit in that demographic. GM should just move on.

    #27

    Well that was my first reaction too, and +1 for your thought.

    On reflection though, I have to give GM credit for putting the truth right up in their faces, even if GM knows in its heart that you are right. Kind of like waving a crucifix in the face of Dracula, LOL.


  35. 35
    Jackson

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:40 am)

    Charlie H: Well, there’s the problem with the Volt, right there. It dramatically cuts consumption IN YOUR CASE. If we presume it works as well for anybody else who buys it, it’s dramatically cutting consumption for 603 other people who bought one in January.

    But 603 is not “drmatically” cutting consumption for the US as a whole, it’s a negiligible amount of reduction. On the other hand, the 2 million Priuses (11K last month alone) have a far greater impact (and then there’s the Fusion and other good choices). These are affordable enough and can be produced in the necessary quantity to “dramatically” cut consumption.

    However, instead of doing what’s necessary to “dramatically” cut consumption, we’ve got the oil use reduction problem framed as a $7500 tax break for the wealthy, boosting the prospects of a disappointing car that barely sells with an unprecedented gift.

    Big trees from little acorns grow. Two million Prii didn’t appear overnight, nor have they yet made sense on a purely economic basis (though they do come closer). Would you dig up the seed of a future harvest?

    Let John-boy articulate his own arguments; he doesn’t need your help.


  36. 36
    Mark Z

    +10

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mark Z
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:43 am)

    Finally, GM is moving in the right direction with the this commercial message. Rather than a Volt owner being embarrassed to visit a service station bathroom or feeling geeky at the fast food drive window, the Volt is shown being driven. This is progress.

    Hopefully GM has the guts to show what Volt drivers really enjoy doing with their Volt. Parked next to a Prius at the stop light, the Volt driver loves to zoom forward to the speed limit by pressing the accelerator to the floor in Sport Mode. The thrill of safely accelerating at full power and leaving everyone else behind without using a drop of gasoline is reserved only for those driving EV’s or E-REV.


  37. 37
    Noel Park

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:43 am)

    Kent: Isn’t it funny how there’s some people who hate the Volt so much yet they spend so much of their time on a Volt website?

    #26

    Yeah, that’s the question I keep asking myself as well. +1

    As they used to say, I think at the Actors Studio, “What’s your motivation?”, LOL.

    Jeff must have done something right here. He sure got good old Charlie wound up today, hahaha.


  38. 38
    jeffhre

    +9

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:43 am)

    Charlie H: M does not want that. They also can’t run the numbers without either using $40K as the Volt cost basis or reminding people that they’re paying a greater share in taxes so wealthy people can buy a Volt.

    The Volt competes with vehicles like the Audi a-4 and the BMW 3′s. So the $40,000 is not a sore point with that demographic. The Volt has been projected to save over $10,500 in gas and petroleum subsidies the government would be on the hook for over the lifetime of the gas burning only cars it replaces. The plug in Prius will similarly displace subsidies to make up for the taxes it’s buyers choose to use on advanced technology instead of sending to the general fund.

    Volts on the road will help to reduce the importing of oil, especially from across the oceans from people who hate us. Volts then will over their life times not only lower the share of taxes non Volt buyers pay, but will put more dollars in the US economy by avoiding imports from Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, as well as Japan for sourcing fuel saving vehicles. And it’s will sales employ NA workers to build the vehicles. Anyone with an ounce of common sense and who cares about the issues we currently face would be shouting these facts from the rooftops.


  39. 39
    Kent

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:55 am)

    Noel Park: #26

    Yeah, that’s the question I keep asking myself as well.+1

    As they used to say, I think at the Actors Studio, “What’s your motivation?”, LOL.

    Jeff must have done something right here.He sure got good old Charlie wound up today, hahaha.

    It doesn’t take much to get Charlie wound up.


  40. 40
    stuart22

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    stuart22
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:57 am)

    Decent commercial, especially for running on the Fox channel.


  41. 41
    Loboc

    +16

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (12:04 pm)

    Charlie H: Alternatively, compare to a Prius C, which goes on sale for $19K. Savings with that are about $13K. $13K/$1.23 = about 28 years.

    I bought my HEMI Magnum for 13k, so, I saved 6k over the price of a Prius C!! Even after two years, I haven’t spent 6k on gasoline.

    Plus, I can go 0-60 in 5.8 sec and haul a Prius C on a trailer. Let’s see ya tow a Magnum with your Prius!

    I mean if you’re going ridiculous, may as well go all the way!!


  42. 42
    Kent

    +9

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (12:08 pm)

    Charlie H: Well, there’s the problem with the Volt, right there. It dramatically cuts consumption IN YOUR CASE. If we presume it works as well for anybody else who buys it, it’s dramatically cutting consumption for 603 other people who bought one in January.

    But 603 is not “drmatically” cutting consumption for the US as a whole, it’s a negiligible amount of reduction. On the other hand, the 2 million Priuses (11K last month alone) have a far greater impact (and then there’s the Fusion and other good choices). These are affordable enough and can be produced in the necessary quantity to “dramatically” cut consumption.

    However, instead of doing what’s necessary to “dramatically” cut consumption, we’ve got the oil use reduction problem framed as a $7500 tax break for the wealthy, boosting the prospects of a disappointing car that barely sells with an unprecedented gift.

    Sorry Charlie….but the Volt also works very well in my case. My wife drives the Volt to her work which is 37 miles away, charges at work, and drives home, a total of 74 miles. Some days, she never uses gas, other days the gas will kick in for 2-3 miles out of 74 miles total. In pre-Volt days, whenever we go out to dinner or on weekends, we would use one of our other cars, usually my Ford Explorer (which has since been sold). Now, we take the Volt whenever we can. We save about $300 per month on gas and averaging 291 MPG.

    PS: Why are you only referencing the 603 Volts sold in January? There’s a lot more Volts out there with many doing the same as me. If you look at the voltstats.net, with only 465 Volts registered, a total of nearly two million miles have been driven electrically. Since there are over 7,000 Volts on the road now, that’s approx. 15 times the 465 Volts on this website which will equate nearly 30,000,000 miles driven electrically. This may still be a drop in the bucket, but it’s a lot better than nothing.

    And FWIW, I just signed a contract with my PV contractor to upgrade my current PV system of 27 panels to 36 panels. I should be generating enough of my own electricity for all of my uses, including my Volt.


  43. 43
    Kent

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (12:10 pm)

    Loboc: I bought my HEMI Magnum for 13k, so, I saved 6k over the price of a Prius C!! Even after two years, I haven’t spent 6k on gasoline.

    Plus, I can go 0-60 in 5.8 sec and haul a Prius C on a trailer. Let’s see ya tow a Magnum with your Prius!

    I mean if you’re going ridiculous, may as well go all the way!!

    LOVE IT! +1!


  44. 44
    Loboc

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (12:11 pm)

    Kent: Isn’t it funny how there’s some people who hate the Volt so much yet they spend so much of their time on a Volt website?

    Jeff gets ‘hits’ to the site whether the person is pro or con. If they happen to click on one of the ads, the site gets actual revenue as well.

    They’re laughing all the way to the bank with all these trolls (er.. commentators) hitting the site!


  45. 45
    barry252

    +11

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    barry252
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (12:25 pm)

    I’ve already posted on the Voltage site about my Smokey Mountains trip last fall. My normal commute is 35 miles per week. In can get by on one charge lasting all week, recharge on Friday and be good for the weekend. Weekend driving is where I burn my gas; with the extended range, my driving is unlimited. The Leaf can’t do that!!

    After 14 months of Driving my Volt, I have a lifetime mpg of 98 and climbing. There’s no way a Prius can do that!

    I bought my Volt for exactly what I’m using it for. ZERO gas all week. Unlimited range when I need it. ZERO Range Anxiety!

    I’d be happy to offer GM a testimonial for one of their commercials!!

    Go Volt

    Volt 63


  46. 46
    Charlie H

    -20

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (12:57 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  47. 47
    Kent

    +11

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (1:00 pm)

    Charlie H: The Prius didn’t start out at twice the price of a similar compact car.

    That’s because it’s not worth it.


  48. 48
    Noel Park

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noel Park
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (1:35 pm)

    jeffhre: Anyone with an ounce of common sense and who cares about the issues we currently face would be shouting these facts from the rooftops.

    #38

    “Aye, there’s the rub”, LOL. +1


  49. 49
    Loboc

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (1:46 pm)

    Kent: LOVE IT!+1!

    Hmmm… I wonder what my 0-60 time would be WHILE towing a Prius C (2500lbs). Think I can beat a C’s 11.5 seconds? It’d be very close I think. The Magnum can certainly go faster than the C-car max of 105mph since my redline in 5th puts me at 130+.

    Anybody know where to get ‘H’-rated trailer tires?


  50. 50
    James

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    James
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (1:52 pm)

    Better.

    It truly is hard to argue with the facts.

    A couple more facts and this commercial would be ideal.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  51. 51
    Dave K.

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave K.
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (1:54 pm)

    I was watching Bill O’Reilly when this aired. Evidently he was watching as well. When the camera turned back on him. His face looked like someone had just dropped a 3 point jump shot over his outstretched arms.

    Volt haters need to get over it.


  52. 52
    Kup

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kup
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (1:55 pm)

    Charlie H: boosting the prospects of a disappointing car that barely sells with an unprecedented gift.

    One of the great things about gm-volt.com is that we have a pretty good ratio of knowledgeable people vs idiots. Many websites cannot say the same. Unfortunately, Charlie, you drag our numbers down.

    You compare Volt sales in one month to Prii sales over the course of it’s lifetime. I’m not sure which adjective I would apply to a person that uses that type of faulty logic but words like honest, serious, informed would probably not be at the top of the list.

    And then, despite all the testimonials on this website, despite all the awards, despite the astronomical customer satisfaction ratings, you can say, with a straight face apparently, that the Volt is a “disappointing car”. I know you know all these facts and yet, for only reasons that you know, you choose to ignore them in your posts and your analysis.

    So one last time, the Prius is a great car. The Volt is just a better car. From a pure economical point of view does the Prius make more sense than the Volt? It depends on a great many things like average miles driven in a day, gas prices, electricity prices, driving style, local climate, etc. For me, and many others, the Volt actually pencils out better but even if it didn’t I would still pick the Volt over the Prius because of all the other non-economical reasons why the Volt is better than the Prius. And I say all this as a person who would have probably bought a Prius if BEVS, PHEVs, or EREVs were not on the market.

    You aren’t rude and you’re not an idiot but when you post here you typically post the same flawed crap about the Prius vs Volt comparison. Be well but please stop the crap.


  53. 53
    Loboc

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Loboc
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (2:18 pm)

    Kup: one last time

    Wasting your time. As someone said recently, let’s talk about all the positives that Volt provides ( and negatives, if it’s real) and let the nay-sayers do their own thing.

    I’m not the best example, but, just hit -1 and move on.


  54. 54
    BlackSun

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BlackSun
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (2:34 pm)

    I think if GM was going to pay to air a spot on Fox, it should have adressed the bailout allegations directly. The Fox crowd doesn’t care about how good the car is. All they care about is the *perception* of an unfair subsidy.

    This monolithic hostility reminds me of an incident at the LA screening of “Revenge of the Electric Car.” Elon Musk clearly emerged as one of the true heroes of that film, after putting in his last $3 million to keep Tesla afloat. But then he accepted a $450 million loan guarantee from the government. After the film, in the Q&A with director Chris Paine, a man in the audience could barely conceal his contempt for Tesla. “I would NEVER buy one of those, I mean he took money from the GOVERNMENT, he’s the VILLAIN.”

    True or not, this is the real issue with Faux News viewers. I don’t think the Volt will overcome this stigma until it can be shown the taxpayer made a profit on GM, and Drudge stops calling it “government motors.” No amount of engineering prowess or reassurances about safety will change this mindset. And of course, the $7,500 tax credit is total trollbait. We all understand why this is a good deal for the taxpayer in the long run. But the externality-ignoring, Excursion-driving ‘free-market’ simpletons won’t let this go.


  55. 55
    CorvetteGuy

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (2:38 pm)

    It won’t be long before dealers will have a bunch of VOLT low-mileage lease returns for resale. You know Charlie and John will be first in line to buy one of those. Who wouldn’t? There will still be 5 years left on the battery warranty, and only 36,000 miles or less on the odometer. Hang in there guys. A Certified VOLT is just around the corner. ;)


  56. 56
    montgoss

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    montgoss
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (2:51 pm)

    CorvetteGuy:
    It won’t be long before dealers will have a bunch of VOLT low-mileage lease returns for resale. You know Charlie and John will be first in line to buy one of those. Who wouldn’t?

    I’ve already got a buyer lined up for my leased Volt. Some guy at work wants it when I’m done with it.


  57. 57
    HaroldC

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    HaroldC
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (2:57 pm)

    Loboc,

    You are right….Charlie H is getting very monotonous..l tend to do the same thing…-1 and go to the positive and interesting comments….

    sorry Charlie H , you put me to sleep…..zzzzzzzzzzzz


  58. 58
    dixiedrifter

    -25

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    dixiedrifter
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (3:38 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  59. 59
    Jackson

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (3:49 pm)

    James: A couple more facts and this commercial would be ideal.

    They need to define “Range Extended” for those viewers who have been willfully deaf. I have heard, with my own ears, “35 miles of range ‘extended’ to 40? How is that ‘range-extended’?!!” (Local Right-wing radio mouthpiece).


  60. 60
    VoltSkeptic

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    VoltSkeptic
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (3:57 pm)

    Charlie H,
    Good Point. But a Prius sucks to drive compared to a Volt, so you comparing apples to oranges.

    You have to compare the Volt to something sportier, e.g. a BMW or Audi, which are only a few thousand cheaper (without the rebate) and cost A LOT more to maintain. Every time you drive into one of those cars’ dealerships (usually twice a year) you’re paying a couple of hundred bucks, for my Audi it costs me $1.5/day and it’s been increasing since I got past 40k mi. In city driving the fuel cost for these cars is twice as much as a Prius, keeping your math that’s a $3.44, but I think fuel savings are closer to $3/day.

    If you lease a Volt you get the full $7500 rebate, which makes the purchase price less. Insurance is a wash. So combined with the lower maintenance, you do save money, conservatively $4/day. If you don’t lease, the price difference is closer to $4k which pays off in less than 3yrs.


  61. 61
    Jackson

    +7

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (3:58 pm)

    dixiedrifter:
    For many of us, we have a problem with our Government subsidizing in this case, private industry, whose management in turn, panders to the public with less than factual information for the express purpose of trying to force a product on the general public.

    Many of us don’t like the Government, in this case, colluding with GM, attempting to dictate what type of automobile we should be buying.

    The Volt has become an albatross with Government “fingerprints” all over it. I hold our present government suspect, as such, anyone who is colluding with them should be watched as well. GM has the best interests of itself as its only concern, providing the “average Joe” with a quality product doesn’t enter into the mix. GM now has a huge credibility problem which it brought on by itself with “shady” Volt marketing strategies.

    With their recent “flim-flam” like behavior, I wouldn’t purchase a GM product if they were the only game left in town.

    1) The Volt is widely but wrongly perceived as somehow being the brainchild of Obama. In fact, as most long-timers on this site know, the Volt was introduced as a concept (and was driven to DC as a production-intent prototype) before the current administration. Furthermore, GM survived long enough to reach Govt sponsored bankruptcy under Obama because of TARP, which was signed by George W. Bush. It was also George who signed in the $7500 tax credit. That’s right: “It’s all George Bush’s Fault!

    2) “Government Motors.” Those who hate the government “picking winners” through use of taxpayer funds, and the fate of bondholders vs Union members, have a transferred a great of this hatred to all things GM; Volt included. These people fail to understand that the taxpayers won’t get their money back, or the US get auto manufacturing leadership back, unless GM is successful. With this public hatred, they are working against their own interests.

    You sound like a willing accomplice.

    Do you think GM would have “colluded” to favor the Unions? Fact is, they weren’t in the driver’s seat, so to speak.

    3) Conservative resistance. Rush Limbaugh leads a surprisingly solid cabal of right-wing resistance to the Volt; based mostly on willful misinformation. One could cite “Government Motors,” a derision of hybrids in general as being favored mainly by Liberals (perception again), and the long infatuation of the Right with SUVs.

    It sounds as though you have become a good little Myrmidon (look it up), sitting at the feet of Talk Radio.

    4) Politics aside, there are still a lot of people who refuse to forget the past. GM’s performance prior to bankruptcy was, shall we say, not always stellar. These people are still buying Toyotas and Hondas over GM products, based mainly on the lessons of the ’70s and ’80s. There is a refusal to acknowledge the realities of the 21st century: A resurgent GM and faltering Japan.

    Is there any of this behind your comment?


  62. 62
    Jackson

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:04 pm)

    dixiedrifter: GM now has a huge credibility problem which it brought on by itself with “shady” Volt marketing strategies.

    Weak or badly executed strategies, maybe; but “shady?” Care to elaborate, or post a link?

    With their recent “flim-flam” like behavior, I wouldn’t purchase a GM product if they were the only game left in town.

    So don’t. No one is holding a gun to your head. If you hear the tramping of boots in the night, and hear your neighbors being dragged, screaming, to a Chevrolet dealership, perhaps your comment will gain feet to stand on. Until then, stop repeating screed. We’ve heard all this from the people who are paid to say it.


  63. 63
    Arkansas_Volt

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Arkansas_Volt
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:05 pm)

    Charlie H: They aren’t going to do that because the savings aren’t there.

    It’s all well and good if fuzzy-thinking people who post here claim ridiculous economies but if GM puts a commercial up claiming the Volt saves money, they’re going to have to prove the numbers. If they try it, you’ll see that GM Volt commercial dissected on “Good Question” or a similar news segment. GM does not want that. They also can’t run the numbers without either using $40K as the Volt cost basis or reminding people that they’re paying a greater share in taxes so wealthy people can buy a Volt.

    Let’s say your aim is to save gas. Buy a Volt or… buy a Prius. The up front savings with the Prius are clear, about $17K (unless you want to annoy people with the rebate). A 40 mile commute can be electric in the Volt or it will require .8 gallons of gas in a Prius. That’s $3.39 today. Presume electricity is a buck. Your maximum daily savings are (.8*3.39)-1 = $1.72. Your simple payback period (ignoring NPV calculations which work against the Volt) is $17K/1.72 = 27 years.

    Or, as in my case, I have an 40 mile each way commute, I get to charge at work for free with a good ole 120V plug (our company pays for electricity in bulk; therefore, no cost to my company), and I took advantage of the $7500.

    New math: 2*(.8*3.39)-1=$4.24 and $9.5K/4.24 = 6 years. sounds better to me than 27. :)


  64. 64
    George S. Bower

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:08 pm)

    DonC:
    there are less of them since they are by and large old white people without a lot of runway left.

    Great one DonC.
    So far I had read all the comments with nary a chuckle.
    But that one made my day.
    Thanks You


  65. 65
    George S. Bower

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:14 pm)

    Can I make a suggestion to all of those that still may be reading this thread.

    There will always be Volt naysayers.

    If they post here with an open ear and mind and perhaps you think that they could be convinced of the positive aspects of the Volt then by all means respond.

    However, If they have a closed mind and refuse to listen and their only purpose here is to IRRITATE then please do not respond.

    One such person comes to mind.

    Please do not fead the irritants. PDNFTI


  66. 66
    Kent

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:18 pm)

    dixiedrifter:

    Many of us don’t like the Government……

    ….Al-Queda, Taliban, Quds…just to name a few.


  67. 67
    George S. Bower

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:22 pm)

    James:
    Better.

    It truly is hard to argue with the facts.

    A couple more facts and this commercial would be ideal.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James

    I agree James.

    I watched the commercial again this afternoon 2 times and I take back what I said up top. It definitely is a good commercial.

    Another thing I did not notice the first time was that Tim Allen DOES NOT say “Chevy runs Deep” at the end. I liked that little change as well.


  68. 68
    kdawg

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:38 pm)

    dixiedrifter: I hold our present government suspect, as such, anyone who is colluding with them should be watched as well.

    Should I not trust only my own government, or any government that subsidizes its manufacturing base?

    [climbs back into bunker]


  69. 69
    Jackson

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:41 pm)

    George S. Bower: Please do not fead the irritants. PDNFTI

    Okay, Miss Manners; suggestion noted.

    We now return to “bashing the idiots,” already in progress:


  70. 70
    VoltSkeptic

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    VoltSkeptic
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:53 pm)

    dixiedrifter,
    Wow. I don’t know how you can read stuff on this forum with all the noise from the black helicopters hovering over your house.

    Myself, I believe that the government is basically unable to put its fingerprints on anything without absolutely screwing it up. GM is making better products, and the Volt is one of them, so I don’t see any government fingerprints. The only ‘flim-flam’ I see from GM on the Volt is they aren’t doing enough to reduce the cost and aren’t making enough (which is probably why they’re doing so little to try & increase demand).

    I also believe we need to use less oil (it sounds like you don’t). Changing the fuel that people use everyday in their cars would be a great start, but the ‘average Joe’ is too stupid to realize the indirect damage driving his pick-up truck or Yukon is doing to our economy and our military. We’re sending billions to other countries (mostly Canada) to buy oil and spending billions protecting it. If we could use local resources coal, nuclear, hydro, etc that would be money for Americans and we have plenty to power every car in America on electricity (in fact half the cars in the US could be powered by what nuclear plants waste every night).

    So I’m OK with the government imposing fuel standards and subsidizing EVs. If we just let the ‘market based economy’ tell us what to do we’d look like China where people have to wear face masks to breathe, a lot of the water has become unsafe to drink, and there is toxic pollution everywhere. I suppose some things could be better if the government didn’t meddle with our lives, for instance we’d still be able to use DDT everywhere and I wouldn’t have to worry about the bird crap on my deck because there wouldn’t be any birds left….but I think that sometimes the government can do things that help us out when we remind them why they exist.


  71. 71
    HaroldC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    HaroldC
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (4:57 pm)

    dixiedrifter,

    you said, quote-”I wouldn’t purchase a GM product if they were the only game left in town.”

    Does that mean that if they were the only game left in town ,you would rather walk or become a cyclist ?

    c’mon……..

    just thinking out loud……..


  72. 72
    George S. Bower

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (5:13 pm)

    Jackson: Okay, Miss Manners; suggestion noted.

    We now return to “bashing the idiots,” already in progress:

    Yes. You are right. I guess the statement was somewhat out of character.


  73. 73
    HaroldC

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    HaroldC
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (5:24 pm)

    VoltSkeptic,

    your qoute….”I also believe we need to use less oil (it sounds like you don’t). Changing the fuel that people use everyday in their cars would be a great start, but the ‘average Joe’ is too stupid to realize the indirect damage driving his pick-up truck or Yukon is doing to our economy and our military. We’re sending billions to other countries (mostly Canada) to buy oil and spending billions protecting it. ”

    l am appalled..do we (Canadians) really sell you more oil than the rest of the world ? Does it cost billions to protect you from us ?

    You must know that natural gas and propane (a bi-product of natural gas) could replace oil in every single vehicle in the US…..and l cannot remember on the spur of the moment the source but l have been led to believe you have 300 years worth of it in in the ground in the US.

    Also you know that the Obama administration nixed the pipeline project….so don’t feel bad if we sell to china.

    just commenting……..


  74. 74
    Open-Mind

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Open-Mind
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (6:10 pm)

    ronr64: I am about as far to the right as you will find and I love the Volt and cringe every time I hear Rush lambaste it or one of the political commentators on Fox pick on it.

    Ditto to everything you said RonR.

    I almost have to laugh when Rush tries to ding the Volt for “running on coal”. Damn right it runs on coal … good ol’ USA coal. We are the Saudi Arabia of coal. Energy independence! Wish I could tell Rush how much I love that. ;-)

    BTW RonR … yours was a great great post.


  75. 75
    Eco_Turbo

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Eco_Turbo
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:33 pm)

    Charlie H: boosting the prospects of a disappointing car

    Can you even imagine a car that the accelerator can be floored up to highway speed and beyond without the gas engine coming on? If you can, then you probably will want to ask the manufacturer of the car you’re driving, why it only costs a couple of thousand less than a car that will do that.


  76. 76
    George S. Bower

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (7:38 pm)

    Eco_Turbo: Can you even imagine a car that the accelerator can be floored up to highway speed and beyond without the gas engine coming on?

    This is what it is about.

    An EV vs a Gas engine Hybrid with limited electric speed.

    The Prius BOOBS don’t get it.

    PEOPLE LIKE DRIVING EV”s.

    IT’s like: Just decide what camp you are in and get on with it!


  77. 77
    Charlie H

    -16

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:10 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  78. 78
    Charlie H

    -18

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:12 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  79. 79
    Charlie H

    -18

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:14 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  80. 80
    Charlie H

    -19

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:17 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  81. 81
    George S. Bower

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George S. Bower
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:42 pm)

    Wow,
    Three more comments from Charlie H that i skipped quickly over,

    Sort of like FOX News.


  82. 82
    evnow

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    evnow
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (8:49 pm)

    Ron: Running it on FoxNews the last line says a lot – “Hard to argue with the facts”

    There is a whole industry out there just for the purpose of argueing with the facts. Fox is just one of them. Afterall, they don’t have a choice. Facts have a liberal bias.


  83. 83
    VoltSkeptic

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    VoltSkeptic
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (9:56 pm)

    HaroldC,
    “l am appalled..do we (Canadians) really sell you more oil than the rest of the world ? Does it cost billions to protect you from us ?”

    Good catch. The US gets more than 21% of its oil from Canada, the next three are Saudi Arabia (9%), Nigeria(8.5%) and Venezuela(8%). So I guess I misspoke, we don’t get most of our oil from Canada, but we get more from them than the next two countries combined.

    [facetiousness on]
    To further appall you, it turns out the US is already spending billions of dollars protecting itself from Canada, in the form of keeping that ‘socialized medicine’ stuff from spreading south. Given how ‘socialized medicine’ is only one step away from complete socialism, random arrests (e.g. China), and then death panels, I’m surprised Rush et al has not demanded that we invade and grab your oil ASAP so that we can protect the Canadian people from the millions of deaths that most certainly result from such malfeasance. [sarcasm off].

    You also are quite right that natural gas is a huge untapped resource, which could power our cars and provide many American jobs. However the jury is still out as to whether the new fracking techniques used to extract some natural gas is worth the side effects. Like I said in my earlier post, if EV’s charge at night we don’t have to hurry to tap that resource.

    Which begs the question: Is an NG powered ICE vehicle better than an NG powered EV? I’m not sure I know the answer, but given that an ICE is woefully inefficient vs an EV motor and NG power plants are very efficient, I’m guessing the EV is still better.


  84. 84
    George McDermand

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    George McDermand
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:06 pm)

    Charlie H: Bzzzt. People want to get to work or the grocery store or Grandma’s house or whatever. They don’t care if they’re driving an EV or a steam carriage, as long as they can switch it on, step on the accelerator and it goes. They don’t like driving EVs more or less than gassers, they just want to go.

    I mean, don’t the pitiful sales of the Volt tell you anything?

    Charlie
    I hope the checks your getting from Exxon are large. I would hate to see you work for nothing!
    George


  85. 85
    Kent

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:22 pm)

    Charlie H: Well, I can certainly see how you’re committed to reducing oil consumption.

    I drive a car that gets about 25mpg on my commute and I’ve saved quite a bit of fuel with it. How? Because my commute is short, far shorter than average. Why? Because I’m committed to reducing use of oil. In a real way.

    I thought your car was powered by a herd of squirrels on a treadmill (Post #79)?


  86. 86
    volt11

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    volt11
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:44 pm)

    Charlie H. conveniently ignores the fact that the U.S. government rebated over $180 million to help sell the 100% Japanese Prius to Americans. Why we do stuff like that when Japan really won’t even let us fairly into their market is a mystery to me, but that’s the USA.

    Obviously, a few Prius heads feel threatened by the Volt so they troll sites like this to prop up their personal choice. I don’t think any Volt owners here feel threatened by the Prius. So please just go drive your Toyota and be happy. The rest of us have moved a bit further along the progress curve.

    But I’m sure that’s too much to ask, and you’ll keep dropping your irrelevant drivel into what is otherwise very intelligent conversation at gm-volt.com. As if you might change the mind of Volt owners and enthusiast who’ve already thought this out very thoroughly, and aren’t the least bit impressed by your insipid debating points, or for that matter your taste in cars.


  87. 87
    Jackson

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jackson
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (10:51 pm)

    evnow: Facts have a liberal bias.

    You couldn’t be more wrong. Facts have no bias at all. It’s what people make of the facts, and how they are spun, that have bias.

    Don’t take the Republicans’ terrible mistake of making the Volt a symbol for a failed administration as proof that the Conservative viewpoint at large is biased against truth. That itself would be a terrible mistake.

    There are legitimate issues for the “Right” to press without invoking this Cranial Rectal Inversion where the Volt is concerned:

    whcwg5.gif


  88. 88
    Ron

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ron
     Says

     

    Feb 15th, 2012 (11:32 pm)

    Hey Charlie,
    My diesel Silverado saved about 1600 gallons of fuel over a comparable gasoline powered truck in the last 50,000 miles and it can smoke a Prius while towing a 9,000 lb Bobcat on a 6,000 lb trailer. Tell me again how long it takes for a Prius to save 1600 gallons of gas over a “comparable” car while barely being able to haul a few bags of groceries?


  89. 89
    BlackSun

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BlackSun
     Says

     

    Feb 16th, 2012 (12:35 am)

    Ron,

    Actually, you have a major physics error, Ron. There’s no way your diesel truck could smoke a 1972 Ford Pinto while towing a 15,000 lb. trailer–let alone a Prius. And a Prius does 0-60 in about 9 sec., and it jumps off the line, what with that electric torque and all, (surprising the hell out of a lot of other drivers on the road). It also carries a lot more than groceries. I’ve taken that vehicle on road trips with 1,000 lbs. of gear at 43 mpg hwy. Very practical car, holds five people– favorite I’ve ever owned.

    But I’m not here to argue the case for the Prius. It’s served my purposes extremely well since 2005, and I’m ready for a Volt. The only thing which would make me reconsider that decision would be this aftermarket battery upgrade.

    http://www.enginer.us/products/conversion_kit.php

    It’s only $6,495 for 8 kWh. Compared to a whole new car for $30,000+, it’s an awfully tempting option once my Prius is paid off. But I’d rather have the Volt. It’s apples and oranges to a Prius.


  90. 90
    pat

    -2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    pat
     Says

     

    Feb 16th, 2012 (3:42 am)

    It is amazing how clueless many citizens and even the big companies are about reality in US. Fox (Fix news) is a propaganda channel and has been operating like one for many years. They lie, twist the news and apply bs logic to sell it to the low IQ folks. Anyone with sound and a bit of analytic mind will turn away from the bs Fix news spews out.
    For GM to spend $$ on Fix channel to impress their audience that Volt is a great vehicle with new technology – is throwing money after the crap they spew on Volt. Sometimes I wonder what happened to hard nose realism in citizens here OR most of us have become soft minded and just accept the bs in media. No wonder we elect those who bring pain and suffering to its citizens – just look what has happened to this nation in last 12 years. Rightfully, we deserve it. Sigh


  91. 91
    Kup

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kup
     Says

     

    Feb 16th, 2012 (7:24 am)

    VoltSkeptic: Myself, I believe that the government is basically unable to put its fingerprints on anything without absolutely screwing it up. GM is making better products, and the Volt is one of them, so I don’t see any government fingerprints. The only ‘flim-flam’ I see from GM on the Volt is they aren’t doing enough to reduce the cost and aren’t making enough (which is probably why they’re doing so little to try & increase demand).

    Here’s the extreme level of cognitive dissonance that is gripping the Republican party (and as you all know I’m a lifelong Republican). In general I believe that the government should keep it’s hands out of the business of the free market. I was born in 1971 and I learned relatively early that a free market economy was a hell of a lot better than a command economy. There just aren’t the correct market signals in a command economy to efficiently make use of a country’s limited resources. On top of that labor is not properly incentivized and the result is that the government control of the economy leads to pretty horrific results. So far I think most conservatives can nod their head with the statements that I made and we can feel justified with our analysis based on the results of the US vs the USSR, South Korea vs North Korea, Modern China vs Maoist China, etc.

    But here comes the cognitive dissonance that I spoke of. Conservatives believe that the government will mess up everything they touch. For some reason they mistakenly believe that the government had a lot to do with the Volt. It’s a Government Motors halo car. It’s an Obamacar. The government has it’s fingerprints all over the Volt. Those of us that read the news know that the government bailed out and saved GM but specifically on the Volt they did very little. The government deserves neither credit nor blame for the Volt. That rests entirely with Lutz, Lauckner, Farah, Posawatz, GM management, etc.

    But to the conservatives they misunderstand or misinterpret the government’s role with the Volt, which then causes “us” to overestimate the government’s impact on its development and hence are programmed to come to the conclusion that the Volt must be a terrible car. But the reality is that the Volt is one of the most awarded cars in the history of cars. It has the highest customer satisfaction ratings. It’s simply an awesome car. So the conservatives believe that the government has it’s fingerprints all over an awesome car which receives absolute raves from its owners and the car critic community. It doesn’t compute to “us” and so “we” hate on the Volt even more.

    The solution is not to mindlessly bash the car and deny reality. The solution is to embrace reality and understand that the Volt isn’t a government project and the government had very little to do with the Volt specifically. Then “us” conservatives can go back to claiming this car as our own because it is an engineering marvel conceived and designed by a private* car company here in America. Let freedom ring!

    * Of course it was actually built when the government owned a stake in GM.


  92. 92
    jeffhre

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Feb 16th, 2012 (11:41 am)

    Kup: Here’s the extreme level of cognitive dissonance that is gripping the Republican party…

    Want some real cognitive dissonance. The government is also the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, and every police force and fire department.


  93. 93
    Harrier

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Harrier
     Says

     

    Feb 16th, 2012 (6:46 pm)

    Kup,

    Hi Everyone!

    GM did not steal that shot, they contacted me and asked if they could possibly use it in a commercial. I just saw this today so I guess they did!

    They are paying attention and they do listen so keep the ideas coming!

    Jason “Harrier” Cullinane


  94. 94
    Ralph

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ralph
     Says

     

    Feb 26th, 2012 (12:43 am)

    This is how much Faux News programs it’s viewers. My Father has ridden with me in my Volt 3 times on trips to my son’s house. I pointed out to him each time when we switched to gas (about 3 miles from the house). That means we were on gas all the way home, which I also pointed out to him. He still says the car is worthless because it can only go (per Faux News) 20 miles! Wow! My son’s house is 42 miles away!

    And to VoltSkeptic: They already did enough to reduce the cost. They are saving me $2,000 a year in gas cost (at old prices!!). That includes my charging costs. In 5 years, that is a $17,000 savings if you include the tax credit. A $25,000 Accord doesn’t have all the add-ons, and it will cost about $7,000 in gas to use. That is a $32,000 final cost vs. $24,000 final cost for my Volt after 5 years.

    And to Charlie H.: I drive a short comute also, at 130+ mpg when gas is $4.

    Those numbers get even better at the current gas prices. I have driven 3,100 + miles and have used 6 gallons of gas.