Dec 26

Bob Lutz to introduce extended-range VIA Motors pickup, SUV and van in Detroit

 

Since hiring Bob Lutz a few months ago, Utah-based VIA Motors has kept busy, and now it’s preparing to show an extended-range pickup truck, 4WD SUV, and three-quarter-ton full-size cargo van at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Jan. 10.

As we reported in September when Lutz’s place on VIA’s board was announced, these are GM-based vehicles and the company says all three can drive 30 to 40 miles “on advanced, non-flammable, lithium ion batteries, then up to 400 miles using the onboard generator, averaging up to 100 mpg.”

 

Do you like the “non-flammable” qualifier about the battery that distances VIA from the Volt’s ongoing issues? We don’t know who’s responsible for that marketing statement, but Lutz is otherwise taking the lead in promoting the vehicles intended first for fleets, then consumers.

“VIA Motors has developed the first extended-range electric powertrain capable of replacing the V8 engine,” Lutz said. “It was my great privilege to introduce the Chevy Volt, and it will be a great honor to introduce the world’s first line of eREV trucks, vans and SUVs by VIA Motors.”

The pickup’s production is scheduled to begin in 2012, VIA says, “with plans to ramp up production to 20,000 units per year over the next few years including the eREV SUV, van and other large eREV vehicles.”

These series hybrids utilize a proprietary 650-volt drive system technology designed for full-size trucks, and VIA says it employs “a streamlined second stage manufacturing process” to integrate its powertrain technology into new OEM vehicles it calls VTRUX.

 

It makes sense that Lutz is the front man on this initiative, as he was hired to “help move this along, particularly with GM, but also with other OEMs,” said David West, VIA’s chief marketing officer in September, “This kind of thing needs a lot of high-level buy-in.”

Being a quasi-celebrity “car guy,” with extensive industry connections, and known for his role in launching the Volt, Lutz is considered well positioned to help the aspiring truck manufacturer raise funds, open doors, and now also to pitch its vehicles to would-be customers.

The company is taking $1,000 fleet pre-orders for its pickup truck “from some of America’s largest fleets,” it says.

One option customers can check is all-electric range of either 20 or 40 miles meaning battery pack size is buyer-selectable.

The pickup’s “anticipated selling price” for volume orders is $79,000 – obviously dependent on how they are outfitted, final production costs, and likely also the number of units purchased.

VIA says expected fleet account deliveries will begin some time in 2013.

Previously it has said it would like to sell to retail consumers as soon as 2013, so whenever this actually turns out to be, it’s apparent the company will be looking to do so as soon as feasible.

WSJ Market Watch

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This entry was posted on Monday, December 26th, 2011 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 46


  1. 1
    Mark Z

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (6:04 am)

    Bravo! As this technology appears in other GM products, I look forward to an E-REV Escalade or equivalent vehicle! Way to go Bob!


  2. 2
    nasaman

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (6:30 am)

    Mark Z: Bravo! As this technology appears in other GM products, I look forward to an E-REV Escalade or equivalent vehicle! Way to go Bob!

    I agree! And although more details of the “proprietary” 650 Volt eREV drive train are needed to be certain, a couple of things stand out even in this short announcement…

    1) At least one version (an SUV) will be available as a 4 wheel drive

    2) For the first time, the customer can choose an electric range of either 20 mi or 40 mi

    I could further speculate from 1) that the gas engine/electric motor handover could very well be “through-the road” —i.e., the electric motor(s) would drive either the front or rear wheels, then handoff to the gas engine driving the other two wheels. OR the operator could use BOTH gas and electric power to drive all 4 wheels for better traction/higher power. Very versatile!

    From 2), vehicle/battery cost can be traded off vs electric range (20 or 40 miles), as many of us have repeatedly suggested here. And of course, one could also hope VIA might offer other options such as an on-board AC power source for powering on-site tools and machinery. Exciting stuff!


  3. 3
    James McQuaid

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (8:30 am)

    I am looking forward to VIA’s display at the 2012 North American Auto Show!


  4. 4
    pat

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (8:34 am)

    It seems that at $80K it will be mostly meant for fleet use. Retail level will be tuff. VOLT which is a great car at $40K and some gripe about the price..However, VOLT price is at the sweet spot where it makes economic sense plus environment benefits.
    I wonder what makes it so expensive compared to VOLT? The drive train may be heavy etc plus bigger battery, does that make the price jump to twice of VOLT?


  5. 5
    Dan Petit

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (8:41 am)

    The 79k initial offering retail ought not be seen as a GM full-production price tag.

    For this small sized production run, that initial cost is actually quite remarkable.

    Another idea which may more precisely define commercial usage and personal usage
    are battery packs that also go in increments of thirty miles, not only just twenty miles.

    This is because most commercial vehicles will go at least sixty miles per day and far
    beyond. Most personal vehicles, as we have experienced here, go thirty to forty miles per day.

    Time is money, so after this last (time and distance test) year of driving twenty four thousand miles in order to both promote seminar products as well as to teach them, it is clear that the “sweet spot” for annual mileage practicality is twenty thousand miles for my company. (Total monthly costs of gas and note at $711.)

    This type of analysis might prove helpful for those in the engineering departments, that the time to mileage for the product value (to determine viable customer distance-destinations) might be far more of an appropriate focal point for battery sizing than just only for the economics of the battery by itself.

    These divisions for battery sizing, one or two twenty mile electric range batteries to make a potential of forty, or, one or two thirty mile electric range batteries to make a potential of sixty electric miles ought to be taken very seriously. If this is done, then you have a complete Electric Range utility offering for all kinds of businesses. If this is done at the very beginning of all engineering efforts, then you will more likely end up with a full product line of Electric Ranges, which no one ought to underestimate for market share.

    These considerations are critical, as pretty much all we hear about that sticks in the customers/public’s understandings are regarding electric range, as it should. If this is done for pack sizing, then the economies of scale for large annual mileage demands will also filter down and apply directly to the lower annual mileage customers.

    20 Miles ER,
    30 Miles ER,
    40 Miles ER,
    60 Miles ER.

    Choose one.


  6. 6
    George S. Bower

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (9:05 am)

    This is ridiculous.
    Who’s going to spend 79K for an aftermarket truck.
    GM can’t even sell their 2mode hybrid system in trucks for the same reason—it’s too expensive.

    Here is my suggestion to get more Voltec drivetrains on the road.

    1) Get that MPV out NOW.
    2) Take out the liquid cooling system for the batteries .
    3) Put in the latest and greatest battery chemistry and us ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the battery.

    This gives
    1) a vehicle with usable room inside which would appeal to a larger customer base.
    2) A lower weight vehicle with more room inside (batteries in floor like Tesla S).
    3) Better fuel consumption due to lower wt.
    4) and most importantly: a lower cost vehicle that will sell to a large customer base.

    Need I point out two of GM’s closest competitors are using no liquid cooling and ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the battery. AND offer a respectable warranty.


  7. 7
    Loboc

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (9:10 am)

    I wonder if they retain the traditional drive train just replacing V-8 with EREV. Also, what does this conversion do to towing and payload capacity?


  8. 8
    Dan Petit

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (9:21 am)

    You have to start somewhere in building an entirely new motive industry, so, the same economies of scale that many expect from ICE will contrast at least temporarily. Many situations exist for the transportation needs of many companies wherein a 79k cost is not at all unreasonable. Look at what UPS is doing with electrified huge step vans, and, what many municipalities are doing with huge electrified buses. It’s not just about the killing of lots of the ICE generated pollution (from getting going from each stop), but the savings of wear and tear on the drivelines are very worthwhile a consideration!!

    It would be nice to instantly have an economy of scale that fits my companies budget and that of many others, but the engineering has got to be all worked out to extensive degrees before these things can happen, so, the best thing to be is patient.

    (Now if only I can get this tmobile connect stick to not “time out” every few minutes, which causes me to need to back out all the way and come back in to finish my posts, that would help my patience a lot, LOL!!!!!)


  9. 9
    BoultVolt

     

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (10:15 am)

    Ouch.. and price for SUV will probably be higher than truck as the base price is. Might be viable for companies, not most people.

    V60 looking better even at 60K eu. Hopefully GM wil come out with a 4wd EREV sooner.


  10. 10
    Bonaire

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (10:26 am)

    #9 George: +1 on those suggestions. Though, if you are referring to Fisker in your “two of Volt’s competitors”, it seems that it does use a coolant system (I had thought it didn’t). The Nissan Leaf doesn’t use one. What is the 2nd one you refer to? I think the design of the Spark EV is going to use coolant as well and may be a good idea of the intendent target market is India or other countries which have high ambient temperatures on average.

    I think Volt’s 65% battery limit is intended not only for longevity of the owner but also making the batteries healthy for the recycling process which puts them into use for Grid Storage. This means, to me, that when you do opt for a 2nd pack there should be some discount for the trade-in value of the pack.

    If heat is a big issue, affecting lifespan, with the Volt’s battery pack and during winter, the mileage drops – why not use more than 65% of the pack’s capacity during winter when heat is less of an issue? Let’s say 80% to get that extra 3-6 miles. This would probably be a secondary mode that would be user selectable and of course, could be abused in the summer months by turning it on for more AER. Maybe Onstar could be involved in doing a “factory switch” of modes? No idea how this could work – but hopefully you get my idea here.


  11. 11
    George S. Bower

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (10:54 am)

    Bonaire,

    “What is the 2nd one you refer to?”

    Bonaire,

    We must always know what the competition is doing.

    I have spent some time snooping on the Priuschat website: The Pip has 4.4 kwh of battery and 15 mile range which tells me that they are using darn close to 100%. The battery is air cooled w/ 2 forced air cooling fans. Also the Pip only weighs 120 lb more than the pure hybrid version. The test fleet was 350 lb heavier but when Toyota went to the final production version they dropped the wt by using the latest and greatest battery chemistry available. The Pip also has exactly the same interior volume as the regular prius Hybrid.

    The base price of the Pip is 32K$.

    My point is: GM needs to offer a Voltec version that is lower cost and lower wt and is more utilitarian.

    The MPV version I have outlined in #6 would do that. My guess is that GM could offer this superior Voltec MPV design at the same price as the Pip. I think it would be very popular., competing in the same marketplace as the Pip but also being totally different and refreshing w/ its great body design and the Voltec drivetrain.


  12. 12
    Dave86

     

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (11:15 am)

    Priced for the Hummer crowd.

    Hopefully these vehicles will include 60Hz 120V & 240V outlets for contractors.


  13. 13
    kdawg

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (11:38 am)

    So do they get the $7500 off?
    (200k vehicles total?)

    Can you run power tools off the generator?

    FYI , I’m back at the Mercedes plant this week. I have to guess these SUV’s they make are up there, but not at 80K

    Edit: just looked up the GL550. It starts at $85k !


  14. 14
    Randy

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (12:08 pm)

    $80 Grand? Good luck with that price range. Give me a conversion on my existing paid for gas guzzler silverado truck for about 15K minus a $7500 Govt rebate and we will talk hundreds of thousands of electric trucks almost overnight.


  15. 15
    Schmeltz

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (1:46 pm)

    $79000.

    Yeah, that’s too much money. They had me until I saw the price. I would love to see a 100 mpg Silverado as much as anyone, but that number is enough to make my eyes water. The only viable configuration I could see existing with any hope of reality would be maybe a Plug-in Silverado with 10 or 15 mile AER and a small 4 cylinder gas/ethanol range extender for maybe in the neighborhood of a $5000 add. So a regular Silverado crew cab at around $35000 with a 5.3 L V8 would now cost in the $40000 neighborhood as an EREV instead and get maybe 50 mpg. I would think a vehicle in that context could make a case for people to buy. Otherwise, go back to the drawing board with this idea.


  16. 16
    N Riley

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (3:54 pm)

    Just the start we need! And with Bob Lutz involved, makes it even better.


  17. 17
    James

     

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (4:54 pm)

    ( re-post ) from late on Christmas Day-

    RUDOLPH THE CRYSTAL RED VOLTEC ( sung to the tune of – well, YOU KNOW! )

    Rudolph the Crystal Red Voltec had a very frugal tank,

    And if you ever saw it, you’d be proud you were a Yank,

    All of the other hybrids used to laugh and call him names,

    Pundits would go on TV and play false misleading Volt blame games.

    Then one dodgey Peak Oil day Uncle Sam came to say,

    “Rudolph with your EM P GEE – Won’t you lead us toward GAS FREE?!”

    Then all the hybrids loved him as they shouted out with glee,

    “Rudolph The Crystal Red Voltec, YOU’LL GO DOWN IN HIS-TO-REEEEE!!!”

    VOLT: MORE DRIVE-LESS FILLING ,

    James

    Merry Christmas! To all my friends at GM-Volt.com, it’s been an eventful year full of breakthroughs, new Volt owner/trailblazers, exciting stories and a plethora of naysayers and fearmongers. But here we are sharing,informing and educating, and I believe Volt and it’s offshoots will prevail. Looking forward to a blessed 2012 and living vicariously through you lucky Volt owners until I can afford my very own.

    Mark in FL, you dog! Fantastic. Gr8 color choice – the Volt at home at last in your tropical solar paradise!


  18. 18
    Charlie H

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (5:44 pm)

    Fleet pickups often sell in the low $20′s. They’re lean and mean, trimwise and pricewise. So, the upcharge for this is in the neighborhood of $57K.

    That’s an up-front payment that represents (57000/3.5)*15 = 240K miles of driving (which is all in discounted future dollars).

    As George S. Bower pointed out, GM’s existing hybrid pickups get almost no takers at $39K.

    Only El Lutzbo could think this is a good idea. Of course, perhaps he doesn’t think this is a good idea… maybe the pay for flapping his gums is good enough that he doesn’t care if it’s a good idea or not.


  19. 19
    Dan Petit

     

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (6:10 pm)

    From the post a few days ago, where Mr. Akerson had provided us some insights,

    here are a few ideas for getting various department employees to think differently with
    different approaches to the same tasks. (Also for a more clear set of perspectives from
    closely related other departments).

    Shuffle department leaders around for a week or two. This will cause all members of
    all departments to reconfigure their group dynamics. (While this can work in an adverse
    way at least temporarily), the point is for all group dynamics to get a “reset” for when the original department heads return to their original positions.

    This comes out of the studies of how the technical dynamics change when there is a change
    in real or perceived leadership. This idea is just meant to be a refocusing of the terms and
    conditions as relates to the group leadership. This can be done to a very limited extent at
    first, then, from what is learned from the group dynamics changes, additional changes can be
    suggested. This works best when there is a consensus for a limited trial time during slower tasking time periods, such as this week.

    In technical environments, your goal must be to increase the technical expertise in these situations, never decrease them very significantly. The final product is meant to be a set of newer dynamics that
    more fully support the team goals as a more focused and cohesive set of approaches for better results.

    Participants are meant to sense that the goals of the group are either on the right track, or that there
    is room for easy improvement, just because there have been these temporary changes at the top.

    This comes out of the studies of managerial changes within independent auto servicing facilities.


  20. 20
    Dave K.

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (6:38 pm)

    Volt #555 was delivered one year ago this week. It’s been a great year. Just over 30 gallons of gasoline burned. To put this into perspective. Being a heavy coffee drinking. I believe I may have drank more coffee in 12 months. Than pumped gasoline into my car.

    There are about 3000 employees at my workplace. I am happy to report that several bought EV this year. My son Eric, wife Diane, and I love our 2011 Volt.

    Volt555-1yearresults.jpg


  21. 21
    Dan Petit

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (6:38 pm)

    Chuck!!!!!

    Chuuuuuuuck!!!!!!

    How is our “there is no future in anything” dude?

    Run a video for us saying “Bahhhh Humbug!!!” if you could be so kind!!

    You could just perfectly fit right in that way!!

    You do want to fit in, don’t you Chuck?? (Where, oh where, have we heard that before?? Hmmmm.)

    It would be so cool if you said “Bahhh Humbug”!!! Chuck!!

    C’mon Chuck, be a real sport.

    You could even just post it here if you like.

    Even John below has sentence continuity to make full paragraphs. Way to go John.
    I predict John will write more silly questions for next year. What say you, John?
    The hall is rented, John, go for it.


  22. 22
    john1701a

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (7:01 pm)

    Dave K.:
    Volt #555 was delivered one year ago this week. It’s been a great year. Just over 30 gallons of gasoline burned.

    Thanks for the real-world data. That’s always nice to see. It looks like you were ideally suited for Volt, a warm climate with only 12.5k for annual driving.

    Now comes the suggestion/complaint. Over and over we see reports of Volt owners providing only consumption data for gas and no information about electricity usage. How well is that going to fly when the PiP owners do the same? Don’t allow that misleading precedent to continue. Make this new year different by including plug frequency and overall kWh consumed.

    Also, how are you managing the multi-driver situation? Do you plan who gets the Volt? That’s dipping into uncharted territory and leads to the question of multi-plug garages. How will that be handled?


  23. 23
    Dave K.

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (7:29 pm)

    Hi John… Take 12500 miles and divide by 44 mpg. Oh what a feeling?

    BTW: The brakes on the Volt work great.

    NPNS


  24. 24
    Dan Petit

     

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (7:57 pm)

    Dave K.,

    Hi Dave K.

    One great thing about such a large battery in Volt, is that a simplex version of V2G for
    providing needed extra load capacity for when wind farms experience a quick upramp
    of wind energy, Volts nationwide could be given the opportunity to absorb lots of this
    extra unanticipated energy. Upramp load leveling.

    The Laurence Livermore Labs are developing something called windSENSE, where wind energy is far more closely predicted, and as a result, the
    controllers of the various grids can make better decisions as to when to call up other forms of generation, or to not as readily shut down wind turbines.

    I am suggesting that a wind utility could possibly contract with a Volt owner for the Volt battery to be on standby to not necessarily be charged at a totally random starting time, but a time that can be forecast to accept upramp wind energy, then to stay charging thereafter.

    This might be worth some extra consideration to the Volt owner, to allow the utility to set the starting time for the charging of the battery.

    Just a new idea as I read an article about the Livermore Labs developing this windSENSE algorithm over at Science Daily just a few minutes ago. Volt batteries ought to be included in that set of studies to serve this potentially valuable service as the percentage of wind energy increases within our various power grids.

    Downramping of wind energy is more controllable since natural gas generation can be upramped to compensate within minutes.

    Volts would be an outstanding repository for the excessive upramps in wind energy overnight, when the wind tends to blow more strongly in many areas of the country at night.

    This would also be the correct reason that Volts get a tax credit, because of this new challenge that utilities will increasingly face as more wind turbines come online. This is **THE** perfect example of synergy of energy because of Volt battery capacity.

    Each kilowatt of power plant capacity costs a thousand dollars to build. A Volt battery can accept many
    times that kilowatt in upramp energy, which greatly offsets part of the unpredictability of wind, so, less fossil capacity may need to be considered from that side of the algorithm.

    Keeping in mind also, the thread topic where trucks and SUV’s might be built with even larger capacity batteries, it gets pretty impressive what automotive electrification can do ultimately.


  25. 25
    Charlie H

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (8:27 pm)

    George S. Bower: The Pip has 4.4 kwh of battery and 15 mile range which tells me that they are using darn close to 100%.

    Or they are using the battery more efficiently or the 4.4 kwh rating is the useable portion. Toyota is usually very conservative in these situations, I doubt they’re using 100% of the battery.


  26. 26
    SharkVolt

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (9:15 pm)

    john1701a Says

    “Now comes the suggestion/complaint. Over and over we see reports of Volt owners providing only consumption data for gas and no information about electricity usage. How well is that going to fly when the PiP owners do the same? Don’t allow that misleading precedent to continue. Make this new year different by including plug frequency and overall kWh consumed.”

    I have currently driven exactly 11,088 miles in a little over eleven months. I have used exactly 40 gallons of gas, most of which was consumed on three road trips totaling about 1200 miles.

    I have averaged less than $24.00 per month for electric charging from an E9B (separate meter with TOU) The charging rate OFF PEAK is about 4.5 cents per kwh. from PG&E. If I weren’t doing some oportunistic extra daytime charging, my electric bill would be at about $18.00 per month.

    So, anyway, my monthly cost for fuel AND electric is LESS than $40/1000 miles driven, for a total of about $440.00 for eleven months. At about 50 mpg for a Prius driven the same distance, The cost would be about double that.

    Needless to say, I am VERY pleased with my Volt.


  27. 27
    john1701a

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (9:28 pm)

    I have currently driven exactly 11,088 miles in a little over eleven months.I have used exactly 40 gallons of gas, most of which was consumed on three road trips totaling about 1200 miles.

    Is that 40 gallons measured at the pump or the estimated quantity display? It would be nice to find out what the difference comes to.


  28. 28
    Charlie H

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (9:43 pm)

    Dan Petit: Chuuuuuuuck!!!!!!

    Rather than fuss pointlessly about the authorship, you might give some thought to the facts.


  29. 29
    HaroldC

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (9:47 pm)

    john1701a,

    john…that sounds like a professional nit-pickers answer……do you really think the numbers would change enough to void sharkvolt’s conclusion………..
    don’t think so……just sayin’


  30. 30
    Charlie H

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (9:51 pm)

    SharkVolt: So, anyway, my monthly cost for fuel AND electric is LESS than $40/1000 miles driven, for a total of about $440.00 for eleven months. At about 50 mpg for a Prius driven the same distance, The cost would be about double that.

    A Prius, at $3.50/gallon (a high estimate for our local prices this past year), would have used about $776 in fuel. Call it $800. You’ve saved $360. At that rate, your Volt pays for itself in about ($32,500-$23,500)/$360 = 25 years.

    Unless, of course, you had to pay for the charger and there’s some sort of monthly charge merely having the meter (in some places, there certainly is).


  31. 31
    Sean

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (10:36 pm)

    80k You gotta be kidding me! Only upper middle class and the rich could afford these pick up trucks. GM needs to use some alternative metals besides lithium-ion when it comes to the batteries and by not sacrificing quality then maybe everybody could get behind the wheel and get the experience. Sheesh that’s about $25,000 more than a Tesla Model S retailed at $54,000.


  32. 32
    kdawg

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (11:08 pm)

    Charlie H: A Prius, at $3.50/gallon (a high estimate for our local prices this past year), would have used about $776 in fuel. Call it $800. You’ve saved $360. At that rate, your Volt pays for itself in about ($32,500-$23,500)/$360 = 25 years.

    I think Sharkvolt’s point was that the operating costs of the Volt are 1/2 that of the Prius; not about payback. You can’t compare the driving experience of a Volt w/that of a Prius. It’s like asking what the payback would be on a Cadillac vs. Toyota Yaris.


  33. 33
    Charlie H

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (11:49 pm)

    kdawg: You can’t compare the driving experience of a Volt w/that of a Prius. It’s like asking what the payback would be on a Cadillac vs. Toyota Yaris.

    If we’re not interested in the cost, why did SharkVolt point out (half of) the cost(s)?


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    Charlie H

     

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    Dec 26th, 2011 (11:52 pm)

    Dan Petit: You have to start somewhere in building an entirely new motive industry,

    What new “motive industry?” This thing is a pickup truck. That’s a very mature vehicle type. Anything that is going to compete in that space must actually, you know, compete.


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    Shock Me

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    Dec 27th, 2011 (7:54 am)

    Charlie H,

    IF you were sensitive to the up front costs you wouldn’t have purchased a Volt in the first place, and certainly not solely to reduce the operating costs.

    You also wouldn’t have chosen a such a complex solution with so many potential maintenance pitfalls. A hybrid of any kind is never the simple solution.

    But until a battery electric car can get 2000 miles on a single charge or charge completely in under 10 minutes, then solutions like the Prius and Volt will have a place among those who can afford them.

    Also in tour calculation you need to account for the fact that unless you went without a vehicle the first $15K to $30K or so would have been spent anyway.


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    lousloot

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    Dec 27th, 2011 (11:12 am)

    Dave K, did you and your family buy or lease?

    Hard to beat a leased Volt if you are going to drive so few miles.

    Thanks for sharing!


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    SharkVolt

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    Dec 27th, 2011 (2:38 pm)

    “Is that 40 gallons measured at the pump or the estimated quantity display? It would be nice to find out what the difference comes to.”

    That is the Trip “B” lifetime gallons burnt, I leave that trip meter set for lifetime mileage.


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    SharkVolt

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    Dec 27th, 2011 (2:56 pm)

    I consider each car I have bought an instant ROI. In other words, “instant gratification”. Otherwise, I would have bought a cheap used mororcycle or scooter.

    Compared to either of those, even your Prius would NEVER achieve a positive ROI.


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    Charlie H

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    Dec 27th, 2011 (5:19 pm)

    SharkVolt: I consider each car I have bought an instant ROI. In other words, “instant gratification”. Otherwise, I would have bought a cheap used mororcycle or scooter. Compared to either of those, even your Prius would NEVER achieve a positive ROI.

    Then why mention the operating cost?

    Some wouldn’t get “instant gratification” from the Volt, of course. I wouldn’t. I get gratification from the things that I do, not the things I buy.


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    Dec 27th, 2011 (7:28 pm)

    “Then why mention the operating cost?”

    Because that seemed to be very important to John. He seems to always be intimating that the Volt is no better than his Prius in that regard. And I demonstrated clearly that the Volt is far cheaper to operate than a Prius.

    My “instant gratification” does not come primarily form the lower operating cost, however. It comes frome the superior ride, handling, performance, braking, luxery, lower maintenance cost, and other “bling” available with the Volt. The lower operating cost is just another additional bonus.


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    Charlie H

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    Dec 27th, 2011 (7:52 pm)

    SharkVolt: “Then why mention the operating cost?”Because that seemed to be very important to John. He seems to always be intimating that the Volt is no better than his Prius in that regard. And I demonstrated clearly that the Volt is far cheaper to operate than a Prius.My “instant gratification” does not come primarily form the lower operating cost, however. It comes frome the superior ride, handling, performance, braking, luxery, lower maintenance cost, and other “bling” available with the Volt. The lower operating cost is just another additional bonus.

    Did you think John1701a was interested in the complete sham of comparing operating (in fact, just fuel) cost without consideration of the other costs?

    The “gratification” value is entirely subjective. Assigning any value to that is entirely arbitrary.


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    Dec 28th, 2011 (12:02 am)

    “The “gratification” value is entirely subjective. Assigning any value to that is entirely arbitrary.”

    Right! And I have always chosen every car I bought based on emotion! Rationality has virtually nothing to do with it, never did!


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    Roy_H

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    Dec 28th, 2011 (12:56 am)

    Bonaire,

    PIP 15 mile range. Since the PIP motor comes on if you push too hard on the accelerator or go too fast it is difficult to actually drive it for 15 miles without the motor coming on. What ends up happening is that you would say on a 25 mile trip that the motor might have been on for only 10 miles and therefore 15 miles electric. But those 15 miles would be at low speed and therefore at lower energy requirements than a Volt at highway speeds. Not so easy to compare.

    Warranty on the LEAF vs Volt. Volt battery is warranted to have 80% range at end of warranty. LEAF battery is warranted against “defects in workmanship” and they specifically state that the battery is expected to degrade over its life and degradation is NOT covered under the warranty.


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    Charlie H

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    Dec 28th, 2011 (7:12 pm)

    SharkVolt: “The “gratification” value is entirely subjective. Assigning any value to that is entirely arbitrary.”Right! And I have always chosen every car I bought based on emotion! Rationality has virtually nothing to do with it, never did!

    Then I’m soooo glad the taxpayers were able to kick in $7500 to help you out with that.


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    The Spirit of Christmas

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    Dec 28th, 2011 (9:27 pm)

    Just another hobby for Lutz. If you could short the stock, do so, IMO.


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    Dec 29th, 2011 (10:58 pm)

    Charlie H,

    The Prius PHEV has a 5.3kwh battery according to toyota data.