While GM is leading the way with “disruptive” technologies like electric, extended-range electric, and mothballed-but-soon-to-be-revived hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, the company says it will also lead with a more soft sell approach to getting mainstream buyers into electrified vehicles.
According to GM North America President Mark Reuss, mild-hybrid eAssist technology – as found on the 2012 LaCrosse and Regal which went on sale this fall, and pending Chevrolet Malibu – represents a lower barrier to entry for car shoppers to comprehend and purchase.
For example, a Buick Regal costs an additional $2,000 with the eAssist option and GM estimates someone driving 15,000 miles a year will make it up in fuel savings over three-and-a-half years assuming gasoline prices average $4 per gallon.
The 2013 Malibu Eco with eAssist has an MSRP of $25,995, including a $760 destination charge. GM estimates fuel economy of 25 city / 37 highway “for the most fuel-efficient Malibu ever.”
“It’s a little more money, but those are some big fuel economy numbers,” Reuss told Automotive News last week. “I think people are ready for that.”
Compared to the outgoing four-cylinder LaCrosse which got 19/30 mpg, the eAssisted LaCrosse gets 25/36 mpg, and the technology’s 5-6 mpg boost beats the 2 mpg improvement delivered by a version GM offered five years ago.
Back then, the company made similar tech available in two Saturns and the Malibu. The system did not do so well in sales, but now with eAssist promising three times the fuel economy improvement, GM is thinking acceptance for it will be much greater.
As eAssist is an optional expense, it not exactly a no-brainer for customers, but it does require considerably less mental effort before pulling the trigger – in fact it is already being presented as a potential impulse purchase unlike advanced-tech vehicle investments that normally come after much intensive study.
Portraying a supposedly typical scenario, Automotive News described a couple in their 50s who arrive at a dealership and drive out the same day with a new eAssist vehicle.
As the thinking goes, eAssist’s advantages can be immediately grasped by people who don’t know a Leaf from a Volt from a Prius.
No, these first adopters come right out of the mainstream and what’s most important to them is benefits versus cost. They need not be enthralled by cutting edge technology, nor enthusiastic about America’s Energy Future, nor enamored with attempts to save the earth.
Enough for them could be a sales discussion centered on how they will save a buck, and that, GM says, is OK by it if it will sell more cars.
Many of you are already familiar with eAssist, but in brief, it centers around a motor-generator bolted in place of the alternator on the front of the engine. A belt connects the extra 15 horsepower it supplies to the crankshaft for added computer-controlled boost.
A small lithium-ion battery is in the trunk, and the system uses regenerative braking and stop-start technology that shuts off the engine at a complete stop and restarts it when the driver’s foot leaves the brake.
The motor is supplied by Continental AG and the battery cells are supplied by Hitachi and assembled into packs by GM. The automaker also developed the software for the stop-start system, and GM’s engineers said they took pains to make the various hybrid elements as transparent to the driver as possible.
The result is smooth power while reducing fuel consumption and GM executives have said eAssist could see its way into the majority of the automaker’s lineup in coming years.
Right off the bat, GM predicts it will see big volumes, and thus far it has no significant competition. Anticipated market “take rate” for the eAssist versions of the LaCrosse and Malibu is 20-30 percent of their entire sales volume.
A projection by AutoPacific estimates total U.S. sales of about 60,000 LaCrosses and 175,000 Malibus in 2013 – this will be the first full year of sales for the redesigned Malibu. So, as many as 70,000 eAssist vehicles could be sold that year, or so the number crunchers estimate.
Next year GM intends to produce 60,000 Volts for the entire world, with 45,000 earmarked for North America.
Reuss said he is sure GM is onto a winner that will lead toward meeting CAFE standards and said it’s “pretty darn compelling” technology for any mid-sized or larger vehicle, even for pickups.
“I think solutions like that are going to have to become way more mainstream than they are today,” Reuss said. “We are the only ones that have that. That will change.”
As GM takes advantage of being a frontrunner, it’s believed eAssist could lead consumers toward diving into an electric or extended-range vehicle after growing comfortable with having batteries and motors in their ICE vehicles. In other words, eAssist could be a baby step to warm people toward a future Chevy Volt, Spark EV, Cadillac ELR, or what ever else is for sale later this decade.
At least it sounds promising, and you can be sure GM is hoping this scenario will play out as well.
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+13
Dec 13th, 2011 (6:26 am)eAssist is a subtle technology which can move unconscious consumers into more efficient vehicles. This is important because progress in the wider world is often measured in small steps, which are sometimes imperceptible.
Ideally two things will happen/not happen: 1) GM’s dealers will sell eAssist aggressively, and 2) the far right will not target eAssist for disinformation attack the way they have with the Volt.
+13
Dec 13th, 2011 (6:28 am)I totally agree with this technology. GM should apply eAssist to all of its ICE vehicles, including trucks and SUVs by next year. The fleet MPG average will go up, and this will help the buyers decide sooner if the hybrid system works for them. Next step is to apply the Voltec technology to all large and medium vehicles, unless GM is planning more BEVs.
By 2015 I expect to see every new GM vehicle at least with eAssist, the majority with Voltec and the rest as BEVs.
Go GM!
Raymond
+4
Dec 13th, 2011 (7:06 am)If the “Pack in the Back” provides more “Punch in the Back” of the driver, aggressive selling will not be necessary.
-3
Dec 13th, 2011 (7:25 am)Stopping the engine at idle makes a lot of sense. Mainstreaming this sort of thing is s good thing.
GM is either over-pricing eAssist or under-delivering on mpg improvement. It may sell to GM fans but it’s not going to take sales from other manufacturers.
For the same money as the Malibu Eco, one could get the full hybrid Camry sedan, which gets 43/39. For a couple thousand less, one could get a Prius which gets about 50/50.
And it remains to be seen what the real-world mpg numbers are for the Malibu Eco. The Camry hybrid and the Prius both deliver their EPA numbers for many people (some do better but, true, some do worse). The people I know who bought the original Malibu hybrid saw little to no improvement over a regular Malibu.
Dec 13th, 2011 (7:32 am)Portraying a supposedly typical scenario…
A possible question…if EAssist breaks out of warranty, does it need to repaired to drive the car? Worst case repair cost?
+5
Dec 13th, 2011 (7:36 am)With such a sizeable boost in mpg – I don’t see why the DoE cannot offer something like a $500-1000 deduction or tax credit for these models. Rather than strictly looking at the plug-in vehicles for help in buying, the government can take a really good bite out of gas consumption by getting people into eAssist type vehicles if the numbers can be trusted.
The impulse buy becomes a no-brainer if 1/2 of the “modest” up-cost of the option can be a tax credit. People impulse buy options like the Volt Nav @ $2K because it is in the car on the lot rather than ordering a model without it. The eAssist actually has impact on return on investment while the Nav immediately loses resale value when it leaves the lot.
But, Hitachi cells? What about their relationships with the others include USA-made A123 or the Volt-proven LG Chem? Why reach out to another overseas supplier?
Charly H – the buyers would choose these models over the Prius or Honda in cases where they want the size or style of the vehicle. Or perhaps want to buy a USA-made vehicle over an import. I think a lot of Americans who want higher mpg would welcome a US-made high-mileage vehicle, such as we see with the high sales of the Cruze in the last year. This is, as they say “mild hybridization” and no way intended to be in the same class as a Prius or Honda Hybrid. But it does make a pretty nice impact to mpg for the slightly larger mid-size class.
+25
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:09 am)The only way I see this working is if GM stops making it an option, and just puts it on every car.
If I have the option of spending $2K, which would take 3.5 years to recover in savings, only if gas is $4.00/gal, then why? Especially when gas prices have been steady to falling lately, and I am going to lease the car for only three years anyway….
That is not my position, but that would be the opinion of the average consumer when faced with the same car that could cost $24K or $26K.
So take the option out of the equation. Just say that the new Malibu now gets 25 / 37 mpg or the LaCrosse now gets 25 / 36 mpg and be done with it.
And Charlie H – Trying to compare a stripped down Prius with a pretty well loaded LaCrosse or a Malibu – Are you kidding me? That car is not the answer to everything, as some here would try to make us believe. People looking at a Buick LaCrosse are not looking at a Prius…..
JMHO
C-5277 Proudly Purchased On 10-04-2011 In Youngstown, Ohio
+5
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:10 am)Mid-Size Hybrid Sedans
Make
Model
MPG
Base MSRP
Toyota
Camry Hybrid LE
43/39/41
$25,900
Hyundai
Sonata Hybrid
40/35/37
$25,795
Kia
Optima Hybrid
40/35/37
$26,500
Ford
Fusion Hybrid
41/36/39
$28,700
Versus 25,995 for the Malibu
There are a lot of people that will buy the Malibu for it’s styling,…… and it’s made in the USA.
As for me personally. I’ll take 50 MPG out of our old Prius till I can pry my wife’s hands off the steering wheel and buy a Volt.
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:11 am)No way people are going to a 4-banger over a V-6 in a luxury car. These sales projections are off by 10x.
+11
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:11 am)The description of how eAssist works is exactly how my son’s 2007 Civic Hybrid works. If GM wanted to get a step ahead of the competition they should also give eAssist cars a plug so that the lithium battery starts up charged instead of depleted or weak. Since the eAsist battery is small, a small 110v charger will do. Get people use to the option of plugging in the car.
NPNS!
Volt#671
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:19 am)$2000 extra for 25mpg city for an “average” performing Malibu in 2013 doesn’t seem like a big winner to me. GM can and should do better, either with lower cost or higher city mpg improvement. How much regen could they possibly be getting if it also incorporates stop/start but only gets 25mpg city?
Putting the battery in the trunk also smacks of a tacked on afterthought unless it is incorporated in the bed instead of reducing storage volume.
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:27 am)#10 : From what I’ve read about eAssist, the battery in the trunk should not come home depleated. It’s apparently trickle-charged when cruising and regen-braking can charge it harder. And, since it’s Lithium, rarely should it shelf-leak a charge like the NiMH in older Priuses. So, the first launch from home should allow eAssist to work if parked overnight. And, if cold-soaked, the ICE still propels the car. Shouldn’t need TMS or plugging in. I guess we should think of it like an “electric turbocharger” which can supplement the base horsepower of the smaller ICE. 15KW should offer a good amount of torque during acceleration from zero. Not like the Volt or a sports car at all but it does what turbos don’t do – low RPM torque.
My wife’s Chrysler Sebring convertible gets horrible mileage – like 13-15 city. This is a similar sized car and at least bests the crappy mileage I’ve gotten used to with older Chrysler products
+5
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:41 am)Hydrogen as a power source for personal transportation is a complete waste of time. I expect GM is not paying for any of this because there is government support for such research (now BMW can pay the bill!). If so, then great! Due to the fact that a hydrogen car is basically a Volt where the gas genset is replaced by a fuel cell, any outside funding actually helps the design of EV systems.
As for weak-hybrids? A marketing failure in the making but again, just having design teams working on EV systems is a good thing. The more batteries are put into production, the cheaper they get.
In a few years it will be very obvious that the gas powered car’s days are numbered. We might do what many developing nations are doing and hand-convert some cars to run on fracked NG but that can only scale so far and will only delay the inevitable.
The ride down the fossil fuel bell curve is not going to be as fun as the ride up.
-11
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:44 am)(click to show comment)
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:46 am)Not really much difference between this and Honda’s Integrated Motor Assist. They’re simply not putting in a small efficient engine to optimize fuel efficiency; it really reminds me of the old Honda Accord Hybrid approach. It makes allot of sense for GM and the customer, it is a small investment that will pay for itself in most scenarios and will boost GM’s CAFE #’s. It is by no means unique or new. Interesting that they are going to great lengths to avoid the term “hybrid”; I’m guessing marketing studies tell them that word makes customers think of big investments or idealogies they might not believe in…
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:54 am)That was the case with someone I know that just bought a new Regal. He preferred a 6cyl vs. a 4cyl with E-assist. I guess to each their own. Maybe they should put E-assist on the 6-cylinder version.
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:58 am)Well using a Li-ion battery is new. There may be significant improvments in the software and the regen braking design as well.
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:59 am)I would like to see the #’s on an E-assist Cruze or Sonic. (price and mpg)
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:01 am)I still think it’s pointless to put a plug on a car w/this small of battery, but this topic has been debated so much, so some people agree w/you.
+5
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:22 am)I consider a “hybrid” as a combination of two different means to reach a goal. In this case, the goal is to move a vehicle. The two technologies are the ICE and the EM (electric motor). Both can move the vehicle by themselves. A hybrid vehicle combines some of each in different ways.
The eAssist adds start-stop, regenerative braking, and power assist (extra HP) to the basic ICE. This reduces idle time to a minimum, recovers energy from braking (usually lost as heat), and adds about 20 HP to the basic I4 engine, probably for acceleration from a standstill and for passing. This will help reduce fuel consumption and reduce engine noise at low speeds. The investment is much lesser than any of the stronger hybrid technologies (series or parallel). The Voltec is different because is is the electric motor that gets a power assist and charge sustain from the ICE.
I see another benefit for the eAssist, and it is related to starting. The regular ICE uses an electric starter that applies torque via a movable gearhead against the teeth of the flywheel. There is plenty of wear here, as everyone can hear an ICE startup with this method. Since the eAssist uses a belt drive instead of a meshing of gears, there is little or no noise, except the ICE itself, and the belt tension can be adjusted to give maximum torque transfer with less wear. If the belt does wear down, is is a easier replacement that even the owner can do in a few minutes, versus the replacement of the gears in a regular starter.
Since the new motor also replaces the alternator, there is one less component in the engine bay. If this motor can be upgraded to a model with more HP, then it can actually move the vehicle a few feet at a low speed (maybe up to 10 MPH). This allows the eAsssit to operate in creep mode at stoplights and slow traffic speeds. The ICE will not be running yet until the accelerator is pressed down harder to increase the vehicle speed. It will be getting the benefit of a light hybrid without the complexity of a new transmission.
Let GM work with eAssist now, and we shall see how efficient it becomes. Then some of us with skills, money, and the desire for improvement, will attempt to get more out of the system.
I bet this may put a dent in other Voltec and BEV sales, but GM must continue the electrification of our transportation, and adding eAssiit to every non-hybrid ICE vehicle (and allowing owners to improve on it) will be one step closer.
Raymond
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:35 am)The eAssist is a combination of the electric starter and the alternator/generator. The most common part to fail would be the drive belt. That may stop the vehicle, but a replacement is a easy as changing the drive belt in many other vehicles (single serpentine or multiple belts). The motor is as reachable as the present alternator, so there will be about the same case as a regular alternator failure. But it removes the starter completely, so there is one less major item in the engine bay to fail.
Raymond
+5
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:54 am)I have a 1995 Buick Regal with a normal aspirating 3800 cc V6 engine, which is the most famous V6 in GM’s history as having been turbocharged and supercharged in many GM vehicles (and running in many professional races). It is nice to stomp on the pedal and feel the engine unleash its power whenever I can. But in the 17 years I had driven it (since December 1994), I spend 90% of my driving time in slow traffic. Under these conditions, both I4 and V6 engines respond similar, but the V6 will eat up more fuel. I had to modify and change a few items in my engine area to increase my MPG from 18 to 20 (a 10%) and stretch my gas money to last longer. I can sustain 65 MPH with less than 1800 RPM. That is nice to have but only when I can travel at highway speeds with light traffic.
I want to replace this Regal with the Chevy Volt, but I have no info on when it will arrive in my market area. So my next vehicle could be another Buick with an I4 and eAssist. The points presented in my previous posts are what motivates me to go for a quieter and economical I4 engine response than pure V6 torque. I may be going from 20 to 36 MPG with a new Buick, and lose a little of the need to feel powerful with a pedal stomp. But I know that I can get more now than I can by staying another year without the Volt. Time will tell if GM answers my wishes, and money will determine which GM vehicle I will buy soon to use for the next ten to fifteen years.
Raymond
+14
Dec 13th, 2011 (10:19 am)================================
For people that want a Prius.
For people that want a Malibu or a LaCrosse or a Camry, they could care less about a Prius, no matter what the price or the mpg. Same for me when I bought my Volt. It wasn’t about price. It was about the car!
If you want to talk about numbers, do you realize you could buy a brand new Kia Rio for $12,295??? Forget the Prius or anything else. If you are really about the cheapest price for a new car, this is it. And you would never save enough money in gasoline savings to make up the price difference between this and the lowest cost Prius. So I expect you will be trading in your current vehicle and going with this low cost, money saving beauty!!!
I didn’t think so……….. So please stop using flawed logic for people that prefer a car different than you.
C-5277
Dec 13th, 2011 (10:20 am)does the volt use a 12v starter or does the generator start the genset ICE ?
Dec 13th, 2011 (10:47 am)The Volt uses 1 of its motor generators to start the gas engine when needed (has no 12V starter).
+2
Dec 13th, 2011 (10:51 am)Why is the battery pack so big in the illustration? Is that for illustrative purposes or is it really that big? 0.5kWh of Li-Ion shouldn’t be too large of a pack.
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (11:02 am)I would imagine it would have to be repaired since the eAssist motor would also be the starter motor. It’s taking place of the starter motor and alternator. Two things you would have to get repaired on a normal car if you wanted it to work properly.
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (11:04 am)Yes, GM should include eAssist on all ICE models!
+5
Dec 13th, 2011 (11:27 am)C|Net Volt Vote Update:
Volt 65% with 5213 out of 8021 votes cast.
The Audi A7 dropped to 24%
Voting ends December 19th, so we have to keep an eye on this….
C-5277
Dec 13th, 2011 (11:29 am)Here’s a picture of the trunk (pic #4 of 5):
http://www.shopautoweek.com/articles/2011/09/first-drive-2013-chevrolet-malibu-eco-with-eassist-uses-mild-hybrid-technology.html
CAD gone wild!
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (11:33 am)#18
i agree. Makes more sense than a Malibu IMHO. +1
Dec 13th, 2011 (11:38 am)Weak technology IMHO. I wouldn’t buy one, but I guess it’s better than nothing. I hate to agree with Charley H, but I don’t see these things flying out of the showrooms. I hope we’re both wrong.
+2
Dec 13th, 2011 (12:39 pm)Forget comparing this to other cars/hybrids. That’s not the strategy here. The strategy is to get someone who is already going to buy the car and say,
“Hey, for a mere 7% more in cost, we can get you much better gas mileage that will not only pay for itself in 3 years, but start saving you money in the long run and increase the residual value of your vehicle.”
I think that’s a pretty good strategy. Of course, the one major flaw I see is they are only putting it on the 4-cylinder version. They are trying to snag people who don’t really care about the environment, energy policy, or even gas mileage so much as savings, and I think those people generally go for the bigger engine.
-10
Dec 13th, 2011 (12:47 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (12:56 pm)Speaking of stop-start…
What’s up with diesel idling? At the local convenience stores, there tends to be any number of work-trucks and private pickups with diesel sitting and idling for 5-10 minutes while the owners go in and get their breakfasts and coffee. What is the fascination of truckers who like to idle versus just re-start? Obviously, it may be to keep the block warm and running “efficiently”.
I know over-the-road guys run their engines overnight since they are sleeping in the cabin – that should/could be replaced with a smaller generator, perhaps. 18 wheelers idling for hours is also an area of waste that I suspect could some day be fixed through energy storage and release through a bank of lithium cells coupled with a small generator unit. Hybridization and electrification of city-based delivery trucks (ie. Smith trucks) seems to be moving in the right direction to cut back on fuel usage in the low-mpg inner-city trucking fleet.
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (1:00 pm)I did not see anything about the size of the battery??
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (1:09 pm)What’s up with it is that it is frickin Rude. I see the same behavior around here. I parked next to an older diesel that was left running and when I came out it stunk so bad outside the car I almost puked. Even though the windows were up in the car it stunk so bad inside I had to roll the windows down in the pouring rain to get the smell out.
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (1:29 pm)If it’s got a turbocharger (a lot of them do), ya gotta idle them for 3-4 minutes before shutdown to cool the turbo down. Ya might as well let it idle for another minute and save the wear and tear on the turbo and starting systems.
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (1:37 pm)Bonaire,
l’m an ex-trucker ,stopped 3 years ago and we were starting to use the fuel heaters that are coming out.they run like a mini oil furnace keeping the cabin and the engine warm. Believe me you don’t want to sleep in a running truck unless you have to. As always new technology is expensive but the more units they sell the prices slowly go down. But there are millions of rigs out there so don’t expect them all to put out $1500 to $3000 for these units tomorrow. Even tho they might save the price in fuel within a year or two…..jusT saying
-9
Dec 13th, 2011 (1:48 pm)The how-to illustration motor power is outdated or incorrect. Today’s release from GM states:
The induction motor-generator bolsters the engine with approximately 11 kW (15 horsepower) of electric power assist during heavy acceleration and 15 kW of regenerative braking power.
Interestingly, that motor is actually liquid cooled. But since the system has only one motor/generation available, there won’t be much electricity available for propulsion. This is another example of GM competition from within, a big contributor to the financial trouble of the past. How will it be marketed & expanded as time progresses?
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (2:05 pm)This all get’s back to a big gap in GM’s technology….but I’m not sure what can be done about it. GM is kind of boxed in.
On one end of the spectrum we have the Volt. It is expensive by most peoples standards. At the other end we have the mild hybrid we see here (e-assist).
What’s in the middle??
Nothing right now.
What should be in the middle?
Should GM try to compete head on with the Prius??
I do not know. They certainly are not going to be buying HSD from Toyota.
The 2 mode is the only option they have in the middle…..
Except for 1 other option and that is a lower cost version of the Volt…..but then this doesn’t work either as a lower AER Volt is not a good product IMO.
+2
Dec 13th, 2011 (2:11 pm)That’s only 3 model-years from now. A generation is 4-5 years. I don’t see the entire lineup turning over in one generation.
If the entire lineup was converted that quickly GM will be bankrupt (again) because the competition is not sinking another 2 grand into each vehicle. GM’s sales would plummet.
The total market for high-efficiency vehicles (HEV) in the US is only 3% and staying steady. If you sell a hybrid it’s because it took a sale away from another HEV. The most traded vehicle for a Volt is a Prius.
And using $4 gas to do the TCO calculation is false. Gas is $3 and dropping. texasgaspricesdotcom (a sub-site of gasbuddy) is at $2.73 today for the lowest station. The top 10 are already well under $3.
We will be in this global stagflation mode for 10 years imho. It won’t turn around until the global debt is paid down to a reasonable level. The glut of oil supply will need to eventually meet the demand. There is no more room to store the stuff. Something has to give and it’s going to be a huge price drop.
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (2:14 pm)Middle = (at least) Cruze, Sonic. Can’t wait to see the Cruze Diesel and Spark EV. All of those are priced less than the Prius. If someone wants a cost-concious small car with 40mpg, they have it available. If they do the math and buy a Sonic at $15K and drive 10K miles a year, they save more money over a new (imported) Prius at 50mpg.
Gas here is $3.31/regular. In NJ, I paid $3.03 last Friday. But it’s not going to stay there. This is temporary.
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (2:38 pm)I agree that e-Assist should be standard.
Ford is trying this pay-a-premium-for-more-efficiency approach with their EcoBoost line. I think the trucks are selling OK because the EcoBoost engine has some real benefits in power delivery but I’ll be shocked if they’re selling many 4 cylinder Ecoboost Explorers. (“WHAT? Pay MORE for the 4 cylinder than the V6?”)
The genius of the Prius is that they *don’t* have a non-hybrid version so the buyer can’t evaluate the premium he’s paying for the powertrain. If Toyota sold a non-hybrid that returned the similar hwy MPG but cost $3k+ less, how do you think it would sell?
Of course, the Cruze Eco is about 25% of Cruze sales and is a $2500 increase over a (lower standard feature) base model so what the h*ll do I know?
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (2:41 pm)I think ‘temporary’ is at least a decade. With global stagflation/recession, there is no way that oil products can stay this high. I’m predicting a bottom at $2.50 (the ‘normal’ range for pump price) with the price wavering between there and $3.25 for the foreseeable future.
+2
Dec 13th, 2011 (2:56 pm)The Prius is a cult car. That’s why it sells. There are many cars that cost less than a Prius and get 40+mpg. Heck, a Chrysler 300 gets 31mpg. That’s ‘good enough’ for most people.
This entire gas mileage thing is pretty much lost on the general public. For the car you want/need, all manufacturers are within a couple mpg of each other for the same capability vehicle.
MPG is very low on the product selection list EXCEPT for buyers looking for the maximum green cred which is a 3% market share.
Dec 13th, 2011 (3:03 pm)eAssist = BAS
-4
Dec 13th, 2011 (3:04 pm)Not too many cars get 50 on the highway (like, none that I can think of available for sale here). Competition for 40+ in the city cycle is limited to certain other $25K+ hybrids. The Prius is a bargain.
-3
Dec 13th, 2011 (3:08 pm)That might not be a feasible project. Part of the reason for good Prius fuel economy is the Atkinson cycle engine, which trades power for efficiency. They make up for the lack of power with the HSD drivetrain, which provides power that wouldn’t otherwise be available.
To move a non-HSD Prius along with matching performance, they’d need to boost the size of the engine and switch to an Otto cycle, which would cost them fuel economy. Of course, it would probably be somewhat lighter, so they might manage 50mpg, and it would be cheaper.
But they offer cars that do 40+, so they probably don’t see much need for that.
And the value proposition of the Prius, starting at $23K or less, is pretty solid as it is. It’s almost equivalent to what a Camry wagon would be.
-3
Dec 13th, 2011 (3:11 pm)Liquid cooled?? That helps explain why this it’s so expensive.
Dec 13th, 2011 (3:12 pm)Until gas suddenly jumps $.75 or more in price. Then it zooms to #1.
-3
Dec 13th, 2011 (3:18 pm)Again , Eassist is not a technology to be appreciated. Its blocking GM Hybrid technology and prevents GM to go to full /Strong hybrids to make real winners.
In My view, Hybrid gives a way to run the ICE on most efficient BSFC values (sweet spot BSFC ) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_specific_fuel_consumption ) and supplements all other places with Electric motor and helps to keep ICE running on the sweet spot So that the end user efficiency is still high (even switches off when its not needed to run without any impact on user – low speed EV mode ) . The hybrid also helps to reduce the wear and tear (like breaks ) and converts the wasted energy to productive energy. Again hybrids reduces the unwanted gearing complexities also. There is no point in sticking to eassist and loosing.
The best example is a full hybrid Camry comes with couple of dollars more but get a great combined/city/highway : 41/43/39. Previous generation was around $5000 more than standard camry and now its priced same bucket as Malibu eco. From this article “GM estimates fuel economy of 25 city / 37 highway “for the most fuel-efficient Malibu ever.” .
Now compare 41/43/39 to 31/25/37 . The big picture will show how the new Malibu lost the game and only reason is bet on Eassist. The cost difference is less $1000.
Eassist should be option in all cars and trucks. Malibu Eco needs a strong hybrid with least 40 mpg combined.
-7
Dec 13th, 2011 (3:34 pm)Here’s the bottom line on eAssist:
GM Offers Mild Hybrid Technology at a Full Hybrid Price.
This is exactly what they did in 2008 with the Epsilon BAS vehicles (Malibu, Aura). eAssist is another GM story that won’t have a happy ending. They have a good little econo-cruiser in the Cruze. They should focus their efforts on winning with good, competitive cars.
+4
Dec 13th, 2011 (4:09 pm)Charlie H,
So we have come full circle again.and I will have to repeat what I said in #41. The Volt is too expensive and e-assist is too mild (for the price).
So what is the solution??
Everyone is full of criticism but I don’t hear any answers.
Dec 13th, 2011 (4:43 pm)George : I think below was the answer
Initially, the system was slated to debut in the Saturn VUE crossover, and in that application at least 60 to 70 MPG of fuel economy was expected.
http://gm-volt.com/2010/07/26/two-mode-plugin-hybrid-update/
This would have given a 70 mpg Malibu Eco (least 50 mpg with small battery)
2008 link :
http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/23/update-saturn-vue-2-mode-plug-in-hybrid/
2008 link :
http://gm-volt.com/2008/10/26/2009-saturn-vue-2-mode-hybrid-first-drives/
2010 link :
http://gm-volt.com/2010/07/26/two-mode-plugin-hybrid-update/
again herd next will the 4 modes instead of 2 modes but never seen anywhere in production.
The better answer for Eassist is
in a business point of view :
Options :
1) Like ford,license HSD from Toyota ( We did it for Vibe right ? so no big deal . Vibe carried a Toyota engine )
2) Make CS only Volt , optimize for 40+ combined mpg ( with small battery )
3) Put 2 Mode or 4 Mode fwd power-trains to production which can achieve 50+ mpg
4) Borrow stuff from Precept ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Precept ) . The hybrid was like ” The Precept used two 35 kW electric motors, one on the front axle and one on the rear axle. The rear axle was also hooked up to a diesel engine or other mechanical power source capable of driving the rear wheels directly or of generating power for the motor on the front wheels. Slow speed driving could be attained using the front motor and battery to turn the front wheels. When the rear wheels were powered, the diesel genset was on.”
So lot options are on. I still don’t know why GM is stuck on Eassist. The problem is not GM didn’t have options. The problem is GM pursuing l the wrong options like eassist and wasting money (R&d, Marketing, putting to production etc and fail ) .
-3
Dec 13th, 2011 (4:46 pm)Why you don’t get as many downvotes as john1701a and I do for the crime of telling it like it is?
—
Dear GM:
The benchmark in the hybrid midsize sedan class is 43/39 and $26K. Adapt or die.
Your friend,
Charlie
+2
Dec 13th, 2011 (4:54 pm)It is impressive that Toyota both improved, and lessened the cost of the Camry Hybrid.
But lets be fair in price. Even at face value the Malibu (+$2000 for eAssist) is at face value closer to $2000 cheaper than a Toyota Camry Hybrid base model than the $1000 you claim. Then when you actually look deeper, you realize the Camry doesn’t come with Air conditioning, Power Seat(s), or Alloy wheels, which the base Malibu does. That probably makes the difference about $4000 in a realistic apples to apples comparison. So it’s really:
Camry: 41/43/39 + $4000
Malibu: 31/25/37
-4
Dec 13th, 2011 (4:56 pm)unni,
The 70mpg PHEV Vue was going to be an extra $10K, minimum, over the base Vue (although GM would be free to price it at a loss, of course). The two-mode transmission is fiendishly expensive to produce. Range-extended fuel economy would be mediocre. The platform had trouble with the mass of the battery. That vehicle was not going to sell.
A 70mpg plugin Malibu Eco-whatever using similar technology was likewise not feasible.
Ford figured out their own version of HSD but Toyota got there first with a very similar system. Ford entered into a cross-licensing agreement and what they sell is their own system.
Through-the-road hybrids (i.e., Precept) may do funny things when there’s little traction. Imagine the drive wheels driving and the back wheels trying to do regen on ice. I think this would also increase tire wear.
-4
Dec 13th, 2011 (5:01 pm)Zod,
The 2013 Malibu eAssist is $25,995. So, are you saying the base 2013 Malibu is going to be $25,995-$2000=$23,995?
A $23,995 Malibu is going to be a tough sell against a $21,955 base Camry.
+2
Dec 13th, 2011 (5:08 pm)My bad, I didn’t see the announced price and was adding the quoted eAssist $2000 to the base 2012 Malibu to compare to the 2012 Camry Hybrid. So yes, the face value difference is a little less than $1000. However, the point about the options remains the same, and the price suggests the base model eAssist Malibu might come with even more options as standard than a 2012 regular Malibu, widening the apples-to-apples gap even more. Plus the 2013 Camry will go up a little.
So, I’d estimate the apples-to-apples comparison is probably at least a $3000 difference.
Dec 13th, 2011 (5:08 pm)I disagree. Gasoline pricing has been between $3 and $4 since 2007. Before that it was in the $2 range. In 2008, gas doubled in price and yet pickup truck sales are stronger than ever.
Apparently, 13city/20hwy is fine.
http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm
Anybody have a chart of USA vehicle fleet mpg over time? I read somewhere that since Model T days, average has only increased by a measly 3mpg.
BTW. As far as I’m concerned ya can take that prius-chat back to the proper site.
Dec 13th, 2011 (5:23 pm)Now the questions change if you adapt to a full hybrid. The questions asked now are
1) How to reduce 6 k out of 10k from a 2 mode ( may be in V2 but without V1 how you do that ? ). I am not one in the bandwagon who thinks 2 mode is expensive. The R&D major costs are over long back .Now its only customizing for platforms and mass production plans. Even the 2 mode money was shared across 3 automakers. You can mass produce to reduce costs. There are more ways to cut costs than doing wrong things )
If Toyota can make HSD not expensive, i am sure , all automakers in the world can do that. Only thing is commitment to go for it.
2) Cross license as GM is not able to figure out its own system or license from some one have (its business , nothing personal )
3) Increase reliability of Voltec and and have with a small 2 kwh battery.
Precept was some old times stuff where Big 3 ate more than 3 Billion tax payer dollars for free and walked away. Just want to show there were efforts before also.
-2
Dec 13th, 2011 (5:59 pm)Loboc,
After a while, we get used to $3.50 gas. When it jumps, truck sales plummet and people line up for Priuses (and, Fiestas and Cruze Ecos…).
-3
Dec 13th, 2011 (6:27 pm)GM doesn’t get to sell cars in a vacuum. The Prius has, in many ways, defined the market. The presence of the Camry hybrid is very, very relevant here, too. That’s the reality. The “Prius chat” you get from some is just a fact of life.
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (6:49 pm)Zod,
Charlie H,
Well, so why don’t you guys put down the cost numbers in a summary table to keep everyone from having to duplicate all your findings. Do a one to one comparison w/ equal levels of Luxury/features.
-2
Dec 13th, 2011 (6:55 pm)People think mass production (a/k/a “economies of scale”) is some kind of magic. It isn’t. The two-mode system involves the expense of what amounts to an automatic transmission plus a couple of electric motors besides (there are a lot of very close-tolerance parts), plus an expensive battery. THIS WILL NOT BE CHEAP. GM can’t even get away with the cost in a major-league SUV, let alone a smaller, less expensive vehicle. They are not going to get $6K reductions out of that any time soon. Even if they did proceed with two-mode in a variety of applications, HSD and the Ford system are simpler and inherently cheaper to build; GM’s two-modes would be at a serious cost disadvantage.
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (7:01 pm)Even if the battery assisted 4 cylinders were faster (turbo) and smoother (balance shafts) than the V6s?
+2
Dec 13th, 2011 (7:11 pm)I think the key that GM needs is this :
Take out 1/3 of the Volt’s batteries and add an Atkinson-Miller ICE to get the hwy MPG up. This way people would have the freedom of full electric and also good HWY MPG. and GM could drop the price to be competitive.
+4
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:01 pm)FYI, the lowest 2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid MSRP on Autotrader is $26,885 + $760 delivery = $27,645, and that’s still without air conditioning, etc, that come standard with Malibu. For whatever reason the official Toyota site won’t let me build one any cheaper than $28,160 (inc delivery). They don’t make the price of options (e.g. air conditioning, power seats, alloy wheels) very easy to find.
Anyway, the point is that comparably equipped malibu vs camry hybrids will be thousands of dollars apart, so even though the Camery is obviously a much better Hybrid, it’s not a clear cut choice for any given customer.
+3
Dec 13th, 2011 (8:26 pm)So you still believe that a Japanese product is better than an American one just based on a cheaper price? Who pays your salary?
I am fully American and I know that every American vehicle sold keeps a fellow American at work. I have driven the Malibu and other GM vehicles, and they are great American vehicles. The extra cost is well justified. That is why a Chevy Volt is still a superb vehicle over the cheaper Prius or any other cheaper import. You don’t buy a Volt for the price but for its top quality. All the past awards proved that!
Japan can keep all the Camrys for themselves. The Malibu will sell well with or without eAssist.
Raymond
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:05 pm)Hi Raymond,
Total American sales : Camry
2010 : 327,804 ,2009 : 356,824 ,20008: 436,617 ,1998 – 2008 – above 400,000 US sales/year
Total American sales : Malibu
2000 – 207,376, 2001 - 176,583 ,2002 - 169,377 ,2003 - 122,771 ,2004 – 179,806, 2005 – 203,503 ,2006 – 163,853 ,2007 – 128,312 ,2008 – 178,253 , 2009 – 161,568, 2010 – 198,770
Its not about patriotism. The talk is on product. Look on the sales numbers above. It says Malibu crosses 200,000 per annum is some time where Camry easly crosses 350,000 annual sales.
If you have a product to beat Camry and get that place, You need a better product than that. So take the comments as product ciritism point of view to improve.
Again if you miss : According to Toyota, the gasoline version will have a market-leading 92-percent North American-sourced parts ( the most American parts ). Again i think GM is trying to be premium motors than General motors ( if you come to Vancouver, you wont see any impalas or uplanders in taxi’s, they are now getting replaced by imports like prius and Siennas and GM is not at all worried on these areas ).
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:18 pm)What I’d like to see are:
1) Atkinson engine, tuned to run only in high-efficiency RPM and use pulse/glide modes.
2) Use A123 cells at 14kWh and use 90% of the charge range rather than 65% of the 16kWh today. This would actually increase AER.
-2
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:53 pm)Not a bad idea.
I doubt that an Atkinson cycle engine costs more to produce (unit cost, anyway) than an Otto. Losing 1/3 of the batteries would cut the weight and bulk and price.
-4
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:57 pm)Check CR or TrueDelta. GM continues to lag behind. The Volt has some whiz-bang features but in a GM car, historically, whiz-bang features are just extra failure points.
-3
Dec 13th, 2011 (9:59 pm)Zod,
A/C is standard on all Camrys. I don’t know where you picked up that erroneous bit of info. iPod inputs and bluetooth are also standard.
Dec 13th, 2011 (10:35 pm)Wow! That takes greenwashing into entirely new territory.
The brochure does indeed state that air conditioning doesn’t come with the hybrid. That’s because the hybrid comes standard with the nicer DUAL ZONE climate control instead.
+1
Dec 13th, 2011 (11:15 pm)John/Charlie,
If it comes standard, my apologies for missing it. Both toyota.com and yahoo autos say “no” next to “air conditioner”, but maybe that’s due to a poor choice to distinguish “dual zone climate control” from “air conditioning”, the former of which does not necessarily mean A/C to me. I’ve certainly seen the most base model of some cars not have A/C to drive down the claimed “starting price” even though they make nearly zero of that stripped down version.
Anyway, i think the new Camry seems great and i’m certainly not trying to say I’d personally prefer an eAssist Malibu, or for that matter that anyone should. I was simply pointing out that the Malibu seemed to have more options standard (e.g. Alloy wheels, power seats, etc) in addition to being cheaper, so maybe it wasn’t a slam dunk to get the Camry over an eAssist Malibu for everyone. If they’re the same price, then yeah, the Camry seems the clear choice performance wise (some might like the styling of the Malibu more).
-3
Dec 14th, 2011 (12:19 am)“I am fully American and I know that every American vehicle sold keeps a fellow American at work.”
You do understand that the $7500 tax rebate is making it possible for LG to get a lot of advantage in the automotive battery market?
Did you know that LG is Korean?
There’s lots of companies that can build a car. It’s whoever owns the battery that’s going to dictate terms. GM’s making an unecomonical car that gets them nothing in the long run but gives LG a strategic advantage.
+2
Dec 14th, 2011 (12:42 am)Some of us here want to use as little gas as possible.
+2
Dec 15th, 2011 (11:28 pm)It already IS. For 2012 the e-Assist model is the ONLY way you can purchase a 4 cyl Lacrosse.
The trunk battery housing contains ALL of the systems power electronics systems besides the battery. So the 115V battery, power inverter module, DC-DC converter, BMS and control modules etc. are ALL housed within that trunk unit. This dramatically cleans up the underhood area with just the 3-phase cables bundle routed to the motor/generator unit being about the only visibly discernible hybridization equipment.
Clean and effective. (and better for general weight distribution)
I won’t bother addressing the ridiculous comments from the usual trolls.
Their thoughts are about as insightful as washing off a freshly plucked carrot.
WopOnTour