Leading up to and since beginning sales last month of the extended-range Fisker Karma, the company has maintained an optimistic tone in the face of public relations ups and downs.
After initially making bold sales projections, company representatives quietly ceased saying that 3,000 Karmas would be delivered worldwide in the last two months of the year, and are saying only things are hopping without being quite as specific.
This decision came after the Karma received less-than-projected U.S. efficiency ratings and the EPA made itself the brunt of automotive journalists’ jokes by officially designating Fisker’s $100k, 16.5-foot-long, 5,300 pound luxury hi-po machine a humble “subcompact.”
Henrik Fisker stands by what is likely his current favorite car – one with his name on it, intended to prove itself a first for a new American car company.
Early adopters who know better, and already prepared to shell out $96,000-and up for the first Karmas are not expected to be dissuaded by the government’s classification and estimate of just 32 miles of all-electric range, 52 MPGe, and 20 mpg with generator running.
They might even be impressed by the German government’s recent vindication of Henrik Fisker’s consistent statements that the Karma is well-capable of 50 miles of AER.
This week Fisker announced the Technischer Ueberwachungs-Verein (TÜV) determined the Karma is indeed certifiable at 51.6 miles AER.
Yes, 52 miles AER is more like it. And Fisker was quick to praise the Euro agency for pinning a more impressive number on the car.
“The TÜV have carried out the most thorough tests yet of the Karma’s real-world urban performance,” Fisker said in a statement. “This is an independent process that measures every element of the Fisker Karma luxury plug-in hybrid’s performance.”
Of the German tests, the founder of the company said he too was gratified.
“We are delighted that the TÜV has confirmed that most owners will achieve a 50 mile range running purely on electric during their daily commute,” Henrik Fisker said.
You can be sure also that Karma salesmen will be mentioning this TÜV rating, and giving anecdotes as needed to qualify the whole situation, despite the depressing EPA label showing less impressive numbers.
The EPA did award the Karma the highest possible score of 10 out of 10 for fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions on its label.
Some of the meaningful praise garnered amidst dubious criticism includes the Karma having just been awarded “2012 Design of the Year” by Automobile Magazine.
But Uncle Sam’s measuring stick is still in question considering the EPA says the Karma is now officially in the same classification as a Chevy Sonic. Unlike the automotive industry which takes into consideration weight and dimensions, the federal agency looked only at the Karma’s sub-100-cubic feet interior dimensions and declared forthwith it shall be known as a subcompact.
Government designations notwithstanding, unless someone wants to pull a sophomoric spoof, don’t expect to see any automotive shootouts between the 403-horsepower luxury sports car and a feisty 138-horsepower Sonic, even if the street-smart Chevy can parachute out of an airplane.
But if this is not enough PR confusion to combat by the aspiring American automaker, the Irvine, Calif.-based company has also had to defend itself against accusations that it was siphoning off U.S. taxpayer funded loans and diverting them overseas.
By now, most readers here have heard reports that were presented as investigative pieces, but really were inconclusive. Allegations on brief TV news spots delivered in grave and concerned tones were that foreign transplant Fisker gladly took $529 million in low-interest money and did not uphold its obligations under the good-faith gesture endorsed by the Obama administration.
Is this proof of a “taxpayer boondoggle?” Not really, but “the people want some answers,” ABC says with all due sincerity …
In response, Fisker issued a press release denying allegations. Here is what it said:
• Not a single dollar of the DoE loans has been, or will be, spent outside of America. All expenditures are reviewed by PwC (PriceWaterhouseCoopers) on behalf of the DoE.
• After receiving the DoE loan, Fisker made it a priority to create U.S. jobs which led to the purchase its own assembly plant in Delaware where we plan to establish production of our second, higher volume, line of vehicles (Project Nina).
• There are currently over 100 workers reconfiguring the Delaware plant so that Fisker will be ready to begin hiring a skilled hourly workforce to producing its Nina platform vehicles in the U.S. for sale around the world. Many of these Delaware costs are covered by the DoE loans.
• For the Karma program, the DoE loan money was used solely in the U.S. to fund design, engineering, and integration work.
• Only private equity financing, of which we have raised over $600 million so far, has been used for costs not covered by the DoE loans, of which only a small part is production costs in Finland.
• The majority of our private funding has been used to create jobs, including 650 people at Fisker’s headquarters in California, over 100 at the Delaware plant and many more at various suppliers throughout the U.S.
• At the inception of the company, Fisker explored the possibility of producing the Karma in the U.S. However, there are no contract manufacturers like Valmet in the U.S., and none of the established domestic automakers were willing to partner with Fisker to provide a manufacturing option in the U.S. that would work for the Karma program. Our assembly arrangement for the Karma was in place before the DoE loans were approved, and has been widely reported on since 2009.
• There is no link between Fisker Automotive and any political party. We are politically neutral – our focus is on building luxury electric vehicles.
• More than 45% of the components of the Fisker Karma sedan are manufactured by approximately 40 suppliers located in the U.S. Some of our biggest suppliers in the U.S. include A123 Systems (Li-ion battery), General Motors Springhill Engine Plant (gasoline engine), Goodyear (tires) and TRW (regenerative braking system).
• The Fisker Karma is the world’s first environmentally-responsible luxury sedan with a unique hybrid electric powertrain developed by a highly-skilled team of engineers and designers in America.
• With the help of DoE loans, Fisker has already created hundreds of U.S. jobs, with thousands more in the near future. Ultimately Fisker is a high-tech American car company that we’re confident will be an American success story to be celebrated.
We reported previously some of these facts a few weeks ago just a day or two before the Big Story blew. We’ll update it now given that last week Bloomberg reported Fisker did cut its orders of A123 Systems lithium-ion batteries, and the Massachusetts battery company’s stock took a 10-percent further dive.
A123 now says full year sales will be $165-180 million, down from previous forecasts of $210-225 million. Fisker also supplies GM and Daimler AG, among others, and CEO David Vieau said only that Fisker is balancing inventories from all suppliers, and offered no further details aside from a general statement.
“Our relationship with Fisker remains strong, and we expect that this reduction in volume is temporary,” Vieau said. “We are executing a plan that we believe will manage costs in the near term while allowing us to maintain the manufacturing and operational capabilities required to quickly ramp up production.”
What does it all mean?
Nothing definitive at this point, but it does show the road to launching your own whole new American auto company can be rocky, especially in this contentious politicized atmosphere. To its credit, Fisker is displaying all the chutzpah one would expect of a company taking the risks it is. It has defended its claims, and has been at least partially vindicated on all of them.
The Karma does not pretend to be a Volt competitor. Fisker’s first car is a high-end entry into the green American automotive space exactly following Tesla’s example which began with its six- figure Roadster, then went down-market to its pending S-model, after proving what it could do.
Make no mistake: It’s a bold strategy to start closer to the top, rather than the low end. If Fisker succeeds, it will show itself to have the technical and design credentials to make selling $40-50k Project Nina vehicles built in Delaware much less of a struggle, or so one would think.
Right now everything looks murky with all the smoke screens being deployed, but if Fisker pulls it off, it will come out from the morass using a former GM plant to take on an apparently timid GM and its limited-till-later Voltec platform with three home-grown EVers. In three year’s time, Fisker could be viewed as more “American” than Fiat-owned Chrysler, but we shall see.
Ultimately, proof of the Karma will be in sales not just in the short term after the eager first buyers snap up their beautiful green cars, but going forward. No doubt also, the sooner Project Nina can get up and running, and prove itself in the face of similar hurdles and critics, the better we will know whether Fisker will be all that it says it intends to be.
This entry was posted on Friday, November 11th, 2011 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+4
Nov 11th, 2011 (6:37 am)I hope the owner of Fisker knows what he’s doing and he better be cautious with this risky plan of his because if he’s not he could be blamed or worse go out of business for good let’s just hope that does not happen and wish him the best of trying to be as successful as much as possible.
+6
Nov 11th, 2011 (7:07 am)“Make no mistake: It’s a bold strategy to start closer to the top, rather than the low end. If Fisker succeeds, it will show itself to have the technical and design credentials to make selling $40-50k Project Nina vehicles built in Delaware much less of a struggle, or so one would think.”
This is the only strategy that works if you are on a limited budget. To enter low end first you have to be a huge company that can come out of the gate with 500k car/year production with a good reputation. You also have to have dealers set up all over the world, or be extremely low priced.
The proven model even for big companies is to start at the top. First digital cameras, flat screen TVs, etc. were all very expensive aimed at the top of the market.
Fisker is by no means a guaranteed success, I have much more confidence in Tesla, but I wish them well.
Nov 11th, 2011 (7:10 am)Jeff Cobb, here’s a video of Daitsu Midgets II racing against each other. It’s uh Mario Kart time! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbtAKEdQ5sA&feature=related
Nov 11th, 2011 (7:16 am)Uh maybe not Daitsu Midget II vehicles but still a great video if also if you watch the video you’ll get my joke of. It’s Uh Mario Kart time!
+9
Nov 11th, 2011 (7:17 am)The Karma is technologically inferior to the Volt.
+17
Nov 11th, 2011 (7:47 am)Make no mistake, the Karma is a beautiful automobile. It is an amazing achievement. I think the same way about the Tesla.
But as a buyer, I still feel more comfortable driving a Volt produced by GM. I just think that their design, engineering, manufacturing, and support teams have more experience. And with all the new technology that is in these vehicles, that experience has a lot of weight.
JMHO
C-5277
Nov 11th, 2011 (7:51 am)Also the future schedule that Kdawg mentioned on yesterday’s article better be right I hope we get a fleet of EV and PHEV vehicles from as many auto companies as possible? No plug, no charge, no sale!
Nov 11th, 2011 (8:17 am)Regarding whether or not Fisker did everything they could to build the car in America, one still has to wonder, why didn’t they make the Karma in the Delaware plant? I’m sure it was ample in size for the volume they need. I suppose they would reason that they wouldn’t be able to get the factory tooled up in time, but that argument doesn’t really hold water, since they already delayed the car a few times already, what would another year matter? Making the cars in Finland after accepting U.S. gov’t. loans is another black eye that could have been avoided IMHO.
Nov 11th, 2011 (8:32 am)Henrik Fisker sure is orange. Is this thing made by Oompa Loompas? (i guess it is a sub-compact
)
Seriously though, how can he say that no money was used for foreign operations when it’s all coming from the same pot?
“Not a single dollar of the DoE loans has been, or will be, spent outside of America. All expenditures are reviewed by PwC (PriceWaterhouseCoopers) on behalf of the DoE.”
I will remain skeptical, until some of these are physically on the road by their owners (not testers or leasers). As an owner I would be concerned with quality from a startup, warranty, and where to take it for repairs. Is Fisker going to train 2000 dealerships on how to repair their car?
+1
Nov 11th, 2011 (8:37 am)Same business model as Elon Musk with Tesla. Watch interview with Charlie Rose:
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11984
+9
Nov 11th, 2011 (9:05 am)From the lead article: “The Karma does not pretend to be a Volt competitor. Fisker’s first car is a high-end entry into the green American automotive space exactly following Tesla’s example which began with its six-figure Roadster, then went down-market to its pending S-model, after proving what it could do.” My thoughts after aggressively test driving a Fisker Karma…
> Many foreign sports cars (Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc) have <100 cu ft interiors (SO WHAT?!?)
> All BEVs are essentially "tethered" to charging locations, thus are not truly long-distance cars
> I've never been convinced Tesla's commercial Li-Ion cells will prove viable in automotive apps
> Bottom Line: I'd be more likely to buy a Fisker Karma instead of a similar-priced Tesla Roadster
+1
Nov 11th, 2011 (9:31 am)If I had that kinda cash to throw around, I’d buy a Volt and a Spark (or a RAKE if it was available).
Nov 11th, 2011 (9:35 am)The only future Fisker has is to execute perfectly with the Nina and that has been pushed back 1 year and won’t start building cars until mid 2013. They were going to be hiring people in early to mid 2012 in Delaware (near me here) but with the delay, it makes me think that something is amiss in terms of execution of their business plan. The Karma was delayed too for some reasons and they’ve made nowhere near the # of units they said they would. Musk did far better in his execution of business plan and is going to be ahead of Fisker every stage of the way.
Let’s hope they succeed – primarily because I’d hate to see another big loss of Federal funds that were “bet” on a highly optimistic “Hope and Change” business plan.
+2
Nov 11th, 2011 (9:41 am)Thanks Sean.
+3
Nov 11th, 2011 (9:47 am)I could bash on Fisker all weekend, but I honestly do hope they make it too. I’ll give them a 10% chance unless they get picked up by a bigger guy (think Toyota/Tesla). Without constant cash coming in, I don’t think they can keep all those people employed. And I don’t think there is that big of a market for a $100K EV, that looks like a sports car (and has the cargo space of a sports car), but doesn’t perform like a sports car. Yes, people will buy them, but not enough is what I’m saying. They really need to get their Nina/Surf going if they are going to be a player in my book.
+7
Nov 11th, 2011 (9:55 am)Fisker (Automotive) is in the same position General Motors was in 2 years ago with the Volt. Pressing to get an electric vehicle to the market. Fielding comcerns of range, size, and price. Always wondering what the competition may release as an alternative. Karma or Model S? Something from Asia? The Cadillac ELR?
No Plug, No Sale!
+5
Nov 11th, 2011 (10:11 am)These cars are too expensive given the current state of the economy. Originally the Karma was estimated to cost $60K. At that price they might have a supply problem. At $95K they have a demand problem. Not to say they’re not worth it, but there isn’t a huge potential market, especially given the rather uninspiring EPA numbers. (Tesla was only able to sell 1800 Roadsters.)
Tesla has the same problem but Elon Musk the PR machine has been able to use the media to create a buzz. Fisker hasn’t. Not sure there is room for two small companies making an expensive EV for conspicuous consumption.
Hope I’m wrong.
+7
Nov 11th, 2011 (10:41 am)OIL is UP again this morning. Currently over $98 per barrel. $115-$120 as the economy improves?
No Plug, No Sale!
+3
Nov 11th, 2011 (11:07 am)The top 10% don’t care that there is a recession. They are still buying things.
I think there is enough market to absorb 3k cars. More than that, maybe not. It will start to loose it’s exclusivity.
+2
Nov 11th, 2011 (11:18 am)Luboc,
I’m in the top 5% (actually don’t know for sure) and the recession hurts quite a bit. I’d bet there is a market for the Karma/Surf but very limited. In the Lutz/Musk Charlie Rose interview, they made a statement like “in the first year, everyone who wanted one got one” (pertaining to the Roadster) then the market is front-loaded. It is looking like the Karma isn’t yet meeting such a front-loaded market. Musk has said that their Model-S is “sold out” but until the cars are made and delivered, it’s just marketing. I think a lot of people who are “green” and wealthy also don’t need to go green with a Fisker – they may wait for a BMW-badge or Mercedes or even some well-off moviestars who drive Priuses would rather be in a Volt than a Fisker. I know some rich guys and they like consistency. They are very conservative and only go with names they know with products with years of history and experience. Not having a Fisker Dealership near them will make it hard to sell to someone in Fairfield, CT, McLean, VA, Wayne, NJ or other towns where some wealthy people live. I just have such bad “vibes” regarding the Fisker future. Hate to say it, but I’m worried for them.
+2
Nov 11th, 2011 (11:29 am)I agree with Elon Musk. The more electrified cars the better. But you wonder how big the pie slice is for the luxury sports car market. Tesla and Fiskar are both chasing the same buyer. How many potential buyers are there in that price range? Of those, what % would buy an EV? Are there any stats of worldwide (or US) market size for cars that are $100k+ ? I found this at http://cometonada.tripod.com/segmentation.htm
Segment F: Luxury Cars
This is the smallest of all segments in the European car market, accounting for less than 100,000 vehicles. However, it is a very prestigious and profitable segment and thus it is highly important to the manufacturers.
The market leader in this segment is Mercedes-Benz. The largest market by far is Germany, accounting for over half of all luxury cars sold. The UK is also a substantial market, while France and Italy are relatively small. Belgium Switzerland and Luxembourg are significant markets for this segment, relative to their small size.
The Mercedes-Benz has decided that they will reduce the size of its current S-class and will introduce a larger, more luxurious new class above the existing range. All the other manufactures in this segment are looking into other markets. Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz are all bringing out smaller cars and Jaguar is moving back into areas of the sports segment that it had abandoned previously.
Segment G: Specialist sports cars
This segment is a small niche in European Market
+4
Nov 11th, 2011 (11:38 am)Gorgeous and impractical, sounds like my ex-wife. LOL.
It’s going to be interesting to see Fisker duke it out with Tesla for top dog status among the 1%ers. My bet is on Tesla.
+2
Nov 11th, 2011 (11:50 am)The EPA ratings have been pretty spot on for both the Volt and the Leaf. The 35 EV miles (EPA for Volt) have been a pretty good average for me between various operating temperatures, in fact it’s probably a little bit high for living in the Northeast US. If there’s any number I distrust in this story, it’s the German TUV rating. Sure, at 72F and under just the right road conditions, you probably can go 50 miles EV in the Karma. Over the course of a normal driving year, I’m betting the EPA’s 32 mile rating is a lot more realistic.
I wish them well. It’s too bad though that in the numbers game, they over-promised and under-delivered.
+1
Nov 11th, 2011 (11:55 am)#15
That’s exactly the way I see it. +1
My standard comment on Fisker stories is “Fisker, LOL”.
The only thing I would add is that “5300 pound hi-po luxury machine” is a contradiction in terms IMHO. Nothing that weighs 5300 pounds can possibly be “hi-po” in my world. It may go acceptably fast in a straight line, but the braking and handling are going to be hopelessly compromised.
+1
Nov 11th, 2011 (12:57 pm)It isn’t just the total mass, but where it is located (in the case of the Volt, the CG is much closer to the center of the car, and lower). I, and many others were surprised by the stability and agility of even the prototype Volt; which is heavy for a car of it’s size. I expect these factors would also apply to the Fiskar, to some extent.
Nov 11th, 2011 (1:18 pm)I agree with those who view Fiskar and Tesla with some skepticism, especially where their anticipated non-luxury offerings are concerned: this is going to be quite a trick for companies of their size. If they can pull it off at all, it will be in small numbers and at a greater-than-anticipated price, I predict.
The cars are also highly likely to be offered in limited initial markets; not just for the reasons affecting other electrics we’ve seen, but because either company would have to extend it’s sales and service networks into any new areas, along with the cars. A nationwide rollout will take much longer than for a traditional company which already has this network.
Let’s see the Nina and S actually offered for sale before we get excited.
Nov 11th, 2011 (1:22 pm)I’m just going by retail, but, high-end shoppers don’t seem to be letting up.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-neimanmarcus-idUSTRE78C30620110913
Nov 11th, 2011 (1:32 pm)I want more electric range. The Tesla Model S features 300 mile EV range and is easy to enter and exit, unlike the Roadster. 45 minute Tesla fast charge stations will be available at select locations in the future. Until then, the gas powered Volt or another ICE car will be used for cross country adventures.
The Fisker Karma looks fantastic and like the Volt is a vehicle that can be your only car.
+2
Nov 11th, 2011 (1:41 pm)I gotta go with Noel on this one. 5300 pounds is very heavy. Tires, brakes, suspension, all need to be pretty beefy (as in a 3/4 ton pickup).
The CTS-V, for example, is 3850 lb. My Magnum is 4200 and it is NOT a sports car. Although the HEMI, 255-55 Ziex tires and R/T brakes make it seem agile. If I put another 1/2 ton in her, she gets pretty slow.
The Fisker/Tesla market is for folks like Leno that have 100 cars already. I fear that Karma will end up like DeLorean and others that had a good idea, but, can’t deliver. Transitioning into yet another volume car manufacturer is a huge uphill battle.
Caddy ELR or Karma. Which would you choose? I think the existing manufacturers will eat their lunch.
Nov 11th, 2011 (1:53 pm)Make no mistake: It’s a bold strategy to start closer to the top, rather than the low end. If Fisker succeeds, it will show itself to have the technical and design credentials to make selling $40-50k Project Nina vehicles built in Delaware much less of a struggle, or so one would think.
I totally agree with this statement. History shows us that relatively new American players (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) did not enter the US market with expensive high end models. They produced affordable reliable small cars that did compete favorably with their American counterparts. In the 90’s, after establishing a market share, Toyota began to branch out from producing mostly compact cars by adding many larger and more luxurious vehicles to its lineup. Start small and affordable was not in the Fisker/Tesla handbook. I wish them luck.
NPNS!
Volt#671
+2
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:03 pm)No wonder at all. They didn’t have an extra 500 million dollars sitting around at the time to avoid a contract build and start their own US based line. Not many start-ups have an extra half billion they can risk before they have a single customer sale. Then the recession blew up the auto industry, and GM happened to have an unused plant in Delaware, in time for Fisker’s next model. And cheap. Much cheaper than building a new plant.
Not very likely a start-up in the worst recession since the 1930′s, could purposely plan to delay their only product, put them selves in a position to need an added 500 million dollars in start up funds before they sell a single vehicle, add personnel and complexity to their operations, raise an extra 500 million dollars during a credit crunch and survive long enough to continue operations.
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:22 pm)So when Fisker got the cheap Delaware plant, which already had a great deal of car making equipment already in place, along with a freshly layed off workforce itching for employment, why didn’t they use that factory to make the Karma? For the small volume of a few thousand cars, and mostly doing assembly of sourced components, and not manufacturing from dirt, I just wonder aloud why this couldn’t have been done vs. manufacturing in Finland? It seemed feasible to make the car in the U.S. although I concede that I could be over simplifying things.
+2
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:39 pm)I think you have to look beyond the current car industry landscape for the answer. Toyota, Honda and Nissan each had a huge industrial base to draw from before entering the US market. Originally though, the nascent US auto industry was full of high priced providers and start-ups. Even Henry Ford sold expensive cars until he tuned up his assembly concepts toward larger and larger scales.
VCR’s, cell phones, Plasma TV’s, a panoply of consumer items started at the high end. Toyota, Honda and Nissan were not start-ups when they entered the US, and they were not introducing substantially new technology.
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:44 pm)OT (perhaps someone else already posted this):
This article is in the San Jose Mercury News regarding the Volt battery catching fire after a crash test. Regardless, I’ll continue driving my Volt.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19315967
+10
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:47 pm)Timely.
Myself (and someone else who used to be fairly common to this site) just happened to take up a position at A123 yesterday. Sell those Fiskers Henrick. Sell! Sell! Sell!
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:48 pm)So do you think these foreign companies introduced their small affordable gas misers in the US because they knew their competition (Ford, GM, Chrysler) was weak in that segment?
NPNS!
Volt#671
+2
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:52 pm)Yes, by about 500 million dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of canceled contracts and penalties, and hundreds of new employees to hire and train. VW Toyota or GM couldn’t sweep this level of change under the rug, let alone a new start-up with no other funds and nothing else for sale. Yes there have been delays. Delays are not as costly as ripping everything out, canceling all existing contracts and starting over in Delaware. How would they fund this after telling investors something completely different?
Henrik Fisker said that the total private investment in the company is about 600 million dollars. To start a line in Delaware would require another 500 million dollars for the Karma, even before the costs of the Nina are considered. After announcing these changes and looking like a complete idiot for pivoting in a new direction on a public relations whim, who is going to write a check for the additional money? Would the company even survive the loss of time?
+3
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:55 pm)Not to direct ppl from this site, but here’s a good article from Motortrend today. (pretty sweet, 7 million EV miles and counting. That’s like 1/4 million gallons of gas not used)
“In round numbers, Chevrolet says, the 3895 Volts sold through the end of September logged 10 million miles, 7 million of them pure battery-powered miles.”
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/1201_chevrolet_volt_by_the_numbers/
+3
Nov 11th, 2011 (2:56 pm)I’m certain they knew a great deal about their competition, the market and their own capabilities from 35 or 40 years ago.
Nov 11th, 2011 (3:04 pm)Here’s a piece on all the new & existing smart-phone aps for cars.
http://www.automoblog.net/2011/11/10/popular-automotive-related-mobile-apps/
One of my friends in Boston who drives an Audi, bought some $20 item off the internet that connected to his car and then communicated through bluetooth to his smartphone. He could get all of the realtime information on his car including all of the diagnostic codes. Hello… GM… put this in the MyVolt ap (and other GM car link aps). People like to know whats wrong, not just some idiot light saying take it to the dealer.
Nov 11th, 2011 (4:20 pm)You are wrong. The economy down turn affects middle and lower class people. The very wealthy are the beneficiaries. Think about it. Countries are in debt, people are unemployed and borrowing money to stay alive, nobody has enough money. Where did all the money go to? It went to the very wealthy. This is the class of people who can drop $100k on a whim, and don’t care if the car will fall apart in 5 years, not that it will, it is just that they will have sold it by then, and have moved on.
Nov 11th, 2011 (4:36 pm)Tesla stock up big again. Over 7% today. Last couple months have been good for them.
Nov 11th, 2011 (6:35 pm)Actually the Karma is 97 or 98K not 95K. How do I know I asked at The Seattle Auto Show last Thursday just letting you know guys.
Nov 11th, 2011 (7:41 pm)38
Oh yeah! +1
Nov 11th, 2011 (7:44 pm)E#35
As in buy the stock or go to work for them? Pretty brave move in either case IMHO, LOL. I still remember all the money you saved me by warning me off of the GM stock at about $8. Thanks again.
Nov 11th, 2011 (8:27 pm)Amazing that Fisker cud not find a builder in US! geez look at chrysler which is in red have the expertise to make body, parts etc could have easily taken this work and use the low wages now in US (compared to europe) to build karma… Not only they wud have made $$ but could have learned more about the EV and some technical aspects from building karma. No shortage of idiots CEO in US.
Nov 11th, 2011 (8:55 pm)I don’t think top 10% would be candidates to buy these cars. 95th percentile in the US make $180k household income per year. A lot of us in the “costly” states, with both spouses working as professionals make over that figure. But most of us don’t buy $100K cars. I’d say anyone with multi-million $ wealth (or regularly over $500k per year in income) would be the target market.
+1
Nov 11th, 2011 (8:56 pm)As an avid trader. Wondering what your exit price is on AONE. I believe it’s possible we’ll see a spike to about $4.40 within 6 months. My current overweight holding is with battery maker ABAT. Earnings due out next week. They just completed an expansion of production capacity including employee housing. I am very long on this one with a target of $4.25 per share within 18 months. Products: Electric scooters, kindle/tablet batteries, lithium cells for mining lamps, and cell phone batteries.
Gas stops each 2 months or so. Buy an EV, you will love it.
Nov 11th, 2011 (10:00 pm)Both ABAT and AONE are a bit scary to invest in right now. AONE would get a boost with one more solid quarter and their grid-storage business growing along with some EV packs. ABAT being in China seems an amazing deal but what is all the talk about the finances being suspect?
Nov 11th, 2011 (10:31 pm)It depends on risk tolerance and personal principals. A 15% gain on OIL is a fairly safe bet. Casinos should gain 15% as the economy recovers. Providers of electricity should be stronger by 10%.
Stocks with the highest potential are the ones providing desirable products for worldwide consumption. Batteries and food come to mind. I have a hefty bet on a food provider as well.
No Plug, No Sale!
+1
Nov 12th, 2011 (7:46 am)Guys I was reading on my Wii and I’ve got some good news for you! Nebraska claims victory by preventing The White House of not putting in the oil pipeline but on the negative side I don’t know if congress has other thing’s under there sleeves and I don’t like that at all but let’s just be glad that Nebraska prevented a oil pipeline of not being put in place from Canada to Texas at all! Here’s the article enjoy everybody. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hQ2dCoFEv1yo8YZKRdxwzBBNVPYQ?docId=eaf4528a86834f62ade35e5acbcb487f
Nov 12th, 2011 (9:49 am)The Nebraska thing is good. They were going to put the pipeline over a major water source for people in the state. Who wants something or someone breaking the pipeline and damaging the water supply and causing undue cleanup? Good to see them put good planning ahead of big business.
Now, the pipeline does allow for oil to flow from Canada to refiners in the TX area. Other than that, they need shipping or trucking to move the oil at higher costs in the long-run. And not many ships can be floated into Alberta. You could pipe it to the great lakes and then ship it up the St. Lawrence and to refiners on the east coast. But that’s more expensive with a similar-length pipe and then lots of shipping. Pipe to the refineries is more direct.
The tarsands are scheduled to increase output and this means they need a way to move it out at a higher-rate. In one way, this is “good” that it may lead to more imported oil from Canada negating oil from other places – - getting closer to North American Oil Independence (Canada and Mexico are heavy suppliers to USA). The pipeline will get built – it’s just a matter of where and not if. Will that oil end up in American tanks? It’s hard to know.
http://www.tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/
Nov 12th, 2011 (2:47 pm)I don’t know if they would be beneficiaries. Portfolios took some very big hits and while they have come back somewhat they’re still down.
He saved me $8 too! LOL
You might be overestimating the demand based on wealth. I’d think $10M would be the point where people starting looking at $100,000 cars. On the other hand more people making $200,000 with a good balance sheet could easily do it if they really wanted to. I just think that from a technological standpoint there’s not much difference between a Model S and a Leaf or between a Karma and a Volt. As a consequence the pickings will be slimmer than they were when Tesla first came out with the Roadster since you’re looking solely at the benefits of conspicuous consumption rather than the benefits of cool tech and conspicuous consumption.
+1
Nov 12th, 2011 (8:38 pm)I propose that 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds is a sizable difference.
+3
Nov 12th, 2011 (9:15 pm)The car driving public now have several EV to choose from. Seating for 6 and strong acceleration are desirable. But, the most important features are safety and dependability. Seems some in the media have an unfavorable even hostile view of EV. I believe EV’s are 10 months from truly becoming mainstream. I applaud GM for producing the Chevrolet Volt. Very strong safety rateing. With smooth dependable performance.
No Plug, No Sale!
Nov 13th, 2011 (4:41 pm)Man I want that Cadilac… Beautiful.
Nov 13th, 2011 (6:44 pm)Honestly, I have been following AONE for ages, since long before it came out…and it has taken this long to get to a price level I liked.
Originally, when I was doing some pre-IPO work, I was thinking $10ish was a fair price. Then I dug out that information about Chryslers ENVI program…specifically that it was dead, and I didn’t see how they were going to bridge to Fisker deliveries without burning a ton of cash, so I figured on about $6-$7. Obviously their high open and topping out at $20 made me put it on the backburner…craziness.
Then there was a few more hiccups, misses, lost a little contract here and there, so I shuffled my target down to about $3, but no lower regardless…after all it does still have some nice business in smaller applications and grid while waiting on EVs.
I really got interested though when the Goldman downgrade came out a few weeks ago…basically saying the company was in trouble because it didnt have the resources/cash to ramp up for Fisker/GMs demands later in 2012. I really like that kind of downgrade.
After than it got pounded with some more downgrades, and it missed on its latest quarterly earnings, but almost everyone and their dog has left the ship, so the stock barely budged on the news.
I figure there is a good pop in it on anything halfways positive and there is good resistance at $3.00. I didn’t get a big position, just a decent starting point 9,000….$2.97, we will see. I figure it might be good for a quick 30-50. (I’ll let you know when I clear out)
ABAT is kinda the same thing, but I really don’t like the cap size for their industry for me to be comfortable, even AONE is almost too small for my liking. It is really hard to get inside their heads…I will say, they are well capitalized. It might be a great pick…I really can’t say.
Nov 13th, 2011 (6:52 pm)I can’t go work for anyone…I barely get along with myself funning a business, lol.
Glad you stayed away from GM. No secret I was never a fan (to say the least) ‘back in the day’…and I guess the same goes for buying the rebirth. I thought the IPO price and the company was ‘ok’…but why take a chance on GM when so many other opportunities were out there and were clearly undervalued?
Aside to the comment above this one: Please don’t anyone invest in AONE because I did, that is a terrible reason to do something. You should always do the homework yourself and then pull the trigger on something you believe in…plus I would feel really bad/guilty if it when down to a dollar, (=
Nov 13th, 2011 (9:28 pm)Really OT, but relates to the discussion a couple days ago about “America is broke”.
Tonight (right now actually), is a special called “What’s America Worth” on the Discovery Channel. Donald Trump (yeah I know) evaluates the value of America from our natural resources to the things we own, to our knowledge. So far it’s been pretty interesting.
Nov 29th, 2011 (11:32 pm)I know no one is out on this thread, but figured I would update, just because. Pickup up another 5,000 in the low 2s, to cost average my position to around 2.69ish.