As GM rebuilds its balance sheet and reputation, the president of GM North America says the Volt and pending Cadillac ELR will help its overarching mission as “technical halo” vehicles.
The occasion was a recent talk in Southern California to the Motor Press Guild, in which Mark Reuss focused on Chevrolet positioning its entire vehicle portfolio into a stalwart contender in the critical California market.
For GM, the Volt represents a comparative trickle of sales, and while these are expected to grow, Inside Line reports Reuss said a key role for the Volt is as a showroom lure.
The Volt fits right in with other environmentally sound transportation.
“People want to see the Volt. Not everyone wants to buy a Volt,” he said, explaining some Chevy customers in a down economy cannot afford a $40,000-plus car (before incentives).
But after they admire the Volt, Reuss said, they may hang around, gravitate to a Cruze, take a test ride, and buy it.
He said GM could foresee a similar scenario for the recently announced Cadillac ELR, which is to be based on the Converj concept. Reuss said this will be “a beautiful car,” and should lend appeal to the Cadillac brand and sales of other Cadillacs.
Readers of GM-Volt have already heard of the “halo” tag pinned on the Volt – and now before its launch the ELR – and such statements delivered shortly after news of GM’s conservative plan to release no new Voltec models through 2015 may be disconcerting.
While some would like to see more Voltec models sooner, the upside is the Volt is here to stay, and Reuss said GM intends to make Chevrolet once again into an “iconic brand” in California, and the rest of the country.
Inside Line wrote: “Reuss showed more than a little disgust for ‘decades of excuses’” from GM as to why it lost the preeminence in the “sovereign nation” of California.
This market is a linchpin to the company’s nationwide success, Reuss said, and GM forfeited its place due to “arrogance around competition” as well as misunderstanding how an automaker must every day be on its toes.
“Pretending we’ll be OK if we sell trucks in the Midwest and South?” he said. “It’s scary, looking back on it. You can’t be a successful automaker selling bad products to people and thinking you can get away with it.”
Without saying more about truck plans, Reuss cast California as a small-car sales battleground, and Chevrolet will be banking on sales of some of the new models the Volt will help attract.
The new Sonic is one of several new Chevrolets with a lot of hope riding on it.
“If we don’t play here, if we don’t grow here, we can’t compete,” Reuss said, as he spoke of a renaissance for Chevrolet.
Vehicles that Chevrolet will be counting on include the chart-leading Cruze, new Sonic, Spark minicar, 2013 Malibu, and pending 2014 Impala.
“We want to re-establish Chevrolet as an automotive icon,” he said, noting by 2014, these cars will comprise an all-new lineup, with the (now new) Cruze being the oldest.
Additional opportunity, Reuss said, is that today there is a whole new crop of buyers with no anti-Chevrolet “baggage.”
“We want to make this generation fall in love with Chevrolet,” Reuss said.
Shooting for the under-30 demographic, Reuss essentially said the new Sonic represents a genuine chance to make Chevrolet again look cool.
Among GM’s marketing plans include partnering with an MTV creative team called MTV Scratch, and the other day Automotive News reported Chevrolet will feature TV spots this month of the Sonic bungee jumping and skydiving.
Whatever it takes, right?
Another core aspect of the new GM’s strategy, Reuss said, revolves around a standard of customer service expected today, and therefore seen as vital for the company and all its employees to master.
“We’re going to treat people right,” Reuss said. “There’s no silver bullet. It’s rolling up your sleeves on a daily basis.”
He said the company will empower its employees to be customer-centric, and, “No one will get in trouble for doing what they think is the right thing for the customer,” he said.
Cadillac Converj concept upon which the ELR will be based.
Reuss’s demeanor was described as “confident, but far from smug,” as GM sees a way to continue progressing in the long term, which no doubt the Voltec line will be a part of.
He said nothing more about when to expect the Cadillac ELR, nor did he say more about plans for the Volt.
His progress report was of the big picture, and of that, he said GM is now a “revenue-generating, customer-focused company.”
————————————————————————————————————————————
Web Chat
The Chevrolet Volt team will be hosting another Web chat today at 2:30 p.m. EDT.
Britta Gross, the director of EV infrastructure for General Motors will join Jim Motavalli, author of the upcoming book “High Voltage” for a chat about electric vehicles. It’s open to everybody and Chevrolet says, “we hope you can join us.”
This entry was posted on Friday, October 7th, 2011 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+11
Oct 7th, 2011 (6:32 am)Several people posting here for years have been critical, almost angry, that GM is using the Volt as “bait” to bring people into Chevy showrooms, then “switch” them to a Cruze or a Malibu. This has never bothered me, however. In fact, right after I read several glowing test reports on the redesigned Z28 Camaro in 1982, I went to my local Chevy dealer and the most prominently-displayed car in his showroom was a 1981 Corvette. He didn’t have a single ’82 Camaro in stock, but that didn’t bother me because I wanted my new Z28 very specifically equipped and was quite content to order it from the factory through his dealership.
/I kept that beloved Z28/IROC Camaro for 12 years and enjoyed every minute of owning it!
+4
Oct 7th, 2011 (7:18 am)Nasaman,
I drove a 1967 Rally Sport (maroon with white stripes) and a 1969 Z28 (blue with white stripes), So I really know what you felt, and I did it a few years before you did!
I wish I can test drive the 2011 Camaro someday.
On the Volt topic, someone gave me the good news that our largest shopping mall, Plaza Las Americas, will have their annual International Auto Show (at locations inside the mall) beginning Oct 17th. I am hoping to see the Chevy Volt there, and enjoy the “love at first sight” that you guys have since last year. I have to wait until my GM dealer offers the Volt to get a chance at a test drive.
http://en.plazalasamericas.com/event/auto-show/
Raymond
+34
Oct 7th, 2011 (7:51 am)Of course the Volt is a halo car. For now….
Once they can wring out some costs and introduce a model that has a price tag that is considered acceptable by the average buyer, then sales will skyrocket! I am guessing that price to be in the mid $20K range.
Today is my fourth day of ownership, and maybe I am still on the “Volt High”, but IMHO, this is the best engineered vehicle I have ever owned. I am making up reasons to leave the office to take the car out on the road!!!!
HPBV – Have Plug – Bought Volt
C-5277
+19
Oct 7th, 2011 (8:10 am)I have no problem with GM capitalizing on the “halo” value of Voltec. I have major problems if GM focuses solely on this value. GM’s best opportunity for lasting success is continual innovation. Voltec vehicles is the most opportune area for them to innovate.
+13
Oct 7th, 2011 (8:29 am)GM wants to sell cars and make money. They don’t care if those cars they sell each send $15,000 in revenue for oil to our enemies (oil is fungible).
It’s not their fault. They just want to sell cars. It’s not their fault the government messed up the rebate by making it ‘per manufacturer’ so they have to sell a more jazzed up car with bells and whistles.
I just test drove YESTERDAY for first time a Volt. Very nice in all respects except for the blind spots. Only thing that surprised me was how nice the hatch is as you have access to back seats which fold down for very nice cargo area.
But the reason I will wait for as long as a year is that its just a little too expensive for me.
I might have to SETTLE for a Leaf or Focus in 2012.
If the Volt had an option with the exact same drive train, everything the same except maybe not all the fancy stuff, and was 35k INSTEAD of 40k before the rebate, I would have drove home with a car yesterday.
But because of the way the govt rebate is structured, GM logically has chosen to sell a 40k Luxury while it waits for the competition to catch up to them.
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (8:36 am)I am one of those who complains about the agonizing slow roll-out of the Volt. I makes me feel good that the Volt is finally rolling off the assembly line at “normal” production rates. Halo or not is irrelevant to me, only that it is now available nation wide, just like all the other Chevrolet models. You can actually go to your local dealer and buy one.
So it looks like GM is taking a breath after all the hard work to launch this vehicle, and wants to spread its energy across all the different models. I guess that is reality, but I hope GM is still pursuing electrification of the entire fleet as an ultimate end goal.
Next steps are not visible, that is to have all major components made in USA. This is happening but takes time to build new buildings and set up entirely new assembly lines for batteries (I know, this part is LG Chem, not GM), electric motors, motor controllers and the ICE generator. When all this is accomplished, GM will be on the proper footing to spread the technology to all the other models.
+4
Oct 7th, 2011 (8:39 am)OT: NEXT WEEKEND Florida-Meet-and-Greet-on-October-16-national-plug-in-day, 10AM:
Here’s your chance to Ride & Drive —& and ask Volt Owners any questions! Located near Disney main entrance just off HWY 192. Two free charge ports 120 and 240V. Large TV’s for any games.
Please RSVP me at nasaman@earthlink.net (so Buffalo Wild Wings knows how many to expect)
+13
Oct 7th, 2011 (8:42 am)Reuss and Reilly earlier this week seem to be saying that nothing new on the EREV development will happen until 2015, whether that is MY or CY notwhithstanding, that is too late. Even if they develop the ELR prior to that, they are wasting a good bit of the value of the money they invested in the EV1 in the 90′s and the money they invested in making a Moon Shot out of producing the Volt by the end of 2010. Their engineers achieved that Moon Shot by the end of the decade, much like NASA achieved Kennedy’s challenge. Tragically, then both NASA and GM lost their way. The Space Shuttle to Nowhere and the failure to follow on the success of the Volt are both failures of vision and the failure was on the part of the MBA’s and the planners, not the engineers. GM has the great press of the MT COTY and several other awards, and are they going to be building an SS Volt or an MPV? Apparently not on Reuss and Reilly’s watch.
Small cars are critical to the development of a loyal base of purchasers, and it seems to have taken GM nearly 35 years to re-remember that. It is a pity that they have realized the obvious when it comes to one aspect of the industry right about the time that they are stunningly oblivious to the value of the Voltec development that they have in the palm of their hand. Voltec isn’t rocket science, in some ways it is even more complex/difficult because several governments have been working on rockets for more than 60 years, and GM is one of less than a handful of car companies that have been working on EREV and BEV tech for the past 15 to 20 years and most of the hurdles have only been surmounted in the past 5 years. GM has the patents and the engineers with the know how to build a successful, no compromise, line of EREV’s which is more than just about any other car maker can say. And they are going to be satisfied with sending a shuttle into orbit instead of sending men back to the moon and on to Mars.
It makes me proud to be an American.
Sarc.
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (9:06 am)Development continues, but nothing new for consumers to buy prior to 2015.
One thing I’d like to see is more E-assist. Put it in everything. If its a $1500 option, heck yeah I’d buy it. You get your payback in the first 2 years (or less).
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (9:27 am)I have been wondering lately if there will be an incentive offered for 2012 Volts next spring/summer? As more units come off the line per day and saturation occurs at the dealerships, I have to wonder if there will be some price easing going into the 2013 model year?
In terms of “halo” effect, I may be interested in a Sonic for my son as well. Wouldn’t have that on my mind unless I was looking at the Volt.
Agreed on the blind spots – more than I’m used to. After my test drive, jumped in my Mazda6 sport wagon and had “loads” of windows available to me again. The Volt was more of a nice “space-capsule” styled envelope and seemed well protected but definitely cuts into visibility. Backup camera seems to be a “must purchase” option.
You know, I’m interested in a new tech that is not yet disclosed. That is stop/start engine management. Imagine if all the cars at a stop light could shut down, saving gas and pollution of the low RPM waiting period. Technology is there in Lithium batteries where a car in a city environment would stop at lights and restart when you go again (ie. Prius, golf carts and so on). This can make a car’s city mpg raise a few points and help the national mpg mandated numbers for the fleet. This may become “commonplace” in many cars in the next few years and the big winners will be the Lithium battery companies supplying the packs. Lead Acid batteries wouldn’t be able to do stop/start but Li is ready to go in that area.
+6
Oct 7th, 2011 (9:35 am)Considering GM builds 2.5 million vehicles per year domestically, 60K annual volume IS a very small part. Yet, it is a very important part, because it is a transition technology vehicle to better vehicles in the future – EREV with room for 5, electric vehicles, fuel cell vehicles, plug-in fuel cell vehicles.
I suspect the delay in creating more Voltec variants, is that battery tech hasn’t advanced as rapidly as all the shrieking EV fanboys said they would. I remember in 2007 people saying batteries would be 3X – 10X better than the Volt’s batteries by the time the Volt hit the market. Well, here we are, and batteries aren’t even 2X better. (BTW, I am not talking cheaper, yes they are cheaper, but they are not significantly more energy dense / smaller / lighter, which is required if you really want to proliferate the Voltec tech over other product classes.
+16
Oct 7th, 2011 (9:45 am)OK – Here comes the first post from the critical side: I’m not angry – I’m saddened. I’ve always been realistic, and GM is messing up bigtime here.
So we get it already, all the throttling down talk re: Volt, and how it’s too expensive to build and it looks great on TV ads but they hope it just brings folks in to buy a Cruze…
Look, enough already — Prius wasn’t a “halo”. I went to the Toyota dealer to buy my Prius in 2007, and I didn’t care that they weren’t making Supras or MR2s anymore. If Toyota planned on the Prius being a Corvette-style image builder, they would’ve missed out upon the surge of interest and heaps of good press they did get for strongly marketing and supporting the first five seat hybrid car sold in America ( OK , Jay Leno would tell you the first American hybrid was the 1915 Owen Magnetic and it seated six! ). Toyota stuck with it – took initial losses and ended up today with millions sold and a WHOLE PRIUS LINE OF VEHICLES.
GM sold 36,518 Corvettes in 2006 and sales have dropped off to about 1,100 units per month in 2011. 12,600 ‘Vettes sold in all of 2010. Corvette is considered a “halo” for GM and the Chevrolet brand, they market it and race versions of it all over the world. Will Volt be the showgirl of GM for the new green age? It looks as if it will unless there is a paradigm shift in the planning halls of General Motors. 10,000-30,000 cars per year does not a “game changer” make. We all know this. If Volt is a Corvair, or a “look mom, I showed you I could do it!” machine – I am not excited at all about it other than I will buy one for myself – but that’s very small thinking – it should be GM and America’s game changer.
The only reason I have been excited about the Volt was it showed America can outdo any carmaker on earth if they want to. I thought they really could outdo Prius. I don’t think Volt is a success if all it goes down in history is, is another Viper or Corvair. Those were proof of concept vehicles, never meant to shoulder the load of the company, or find their way into a majority of garages and parking spaces the way Camry, Accord or Taurus did.
This shows GM is still half in reverse – that the “New GM” really is the old GM with a veneer of fresh paint on top. If Mark Ruess doesn’t change his tune soon – the Prius will remain undaunted as the leader in efficient autos. 1 or 2 million Prii on the road make a dent – a difference. 10-50,000 Volts do not. Simple as that. Optimists here say a 2nd or 3rd generation Volt may…just may be cheaper to produce and sway GM into targeting the car as a rival to ICE compact sedans. I think GM is doing and saying everything it can to prove them wrong.
Image cars are like marketing hype – all fluff and no substance. This isn’t about nostalgia of Z/28s and ponycars we once proudly drove in younger years. We know we sucked and burned enough fossil fuels to provide a sheik with 17 harems back then. And now we know we spewed tons of pollution – toxic chemicals into the air. We didn’t even think of such things back then, and catalyctic converters and emissions regs just pissed us off – HOW DARE THEY?!!!
Today, I just THANK GOD for C.A.F.E. and C.A.R.B. regulations. Without them Volt and other solutions like the upcoming full-sized pickup truck conversions would not exist. This is not a GM fan site. This is a Chevy Volt and Voltec technology appreciation site. I don’t think the Volt owners here bought their cars to be museum pieces. I think we all believed to varying extents that GM would make good on all the investment of time and money ( some our own ) and actually produce the Volt as if it were a Malibu or an Impala.
History shows us GM and the other car companies don’t like to innovate.They innovate when they have to, to gain market share – to survive. Innovation is expensive. During the last bout of government regulations they lobbied and litigated to reduce emissions and mileage standards. It’s why the government regulation of the auto industry route to end oil dependency is flawed. We’ll see these newest EPA and NHTSA regulations whittled away at – and if they are, Volt will ride off into the sunset of automotive history – like the Owen Magnetic and EV-1.
Hang on to your Volts. They may just become collector’s items. Or, as Corvette, Volt will soldier on as a halo-image machine, designed to pull people into the showroom to buy an ICE powered fossil fuel sucker.
Go ahead and neg me. Shoot the messenger.
Optimistically, we can only hope PHEVs like the C-Max Energi and PIP take off in sales. If someone has the courage and fortitude to take initial losses and hang in there with plug in technology sold at the dealer as a mainstream line – I believe they will reap the biggest financial rewards AND be the true “game changers” as they were the ones that built the better Prius. Sell millions of cars with plugs and it will make a big difference: To our economy, to clean our air, make us healthier, make our world safer, increase the peace and allow us to have a much smaller military presence around the globe.
This is why I started to get really excited about the Volt. ZL-1 550 HP Camaros and ZR-1 Corvettes may appeal to the too much testosterone for their own good crowd – but Volt is just smart – VERY SMART.
VOLT, IT’S MORE FREEDOM THAN ELECTRIC! ,
James
+6
Oct 7th, 2011 (10:12 am)You know what would make the car(s) cheaper? Lowering the stinkin’ $850 destination charge. I could fly to Michigan and drive back for less out of pocket. Sheesh
Are they charging $850 for $14K Sonics also?
Who gets into car manufacturing – car transit seems far more lucrative…
+7
Oct 7th, 2011 (10:14 am)I don’t think the price of the Volt is too high.. considering the technology and the long term value.
If you spend over $2,000 per year in gasoline like many of the commuters in my area the long term .. 8 years or more of the Volt is the same as any economy car.. the value is.. you are driving advanced technology and a car that doesn’t shift and is more quiet and smooth riding than cars costing many times more than the Volt.
I know many people who commute about 20 miles(each way) of city driving every day… they are filling up their economy cars tank every week… the Volt is a good fit for these people who would be driving all electric for the vast majority or all of their commute. The Volt is a ideal fit for stop and go city driving .. the electric drive if far superior than any ICE drive or Hybrid drive like the Pruis. The huge advantage the Volt has over all electric cars is no range anxiety especially in the winter months.
GM is way in the lead and ramping up production … I just hope they are working on the CUV version… do we have any info on this? I know Milford is doing a lot of testing just hope they are testing Voltec CUV’s.
I also hope our government is working on leveling the Playing Field for GM and FORD so that they are able to get the research money to keep the electric drive development going.
The president talked yesterday about Unfair Trade but skirted around as usual.. saying that other governments are subsidizing more than us.. so we have to subsidize more to keep up… which I think is the wrong… he did not address the main problem which is tariffs. While we give our competitors $7500 per car they put a $20,000 tariff on any car we try to sell in their market… this has to change.
+4
Oct 7th, 2011 (10:36 am)From a GM-Volt.com article almost 1 year ago today.
http://gm-volt.com/2010/10/22/gm-hoping-volt-will-be-halo-car/
+8
Oct 7th, 2011 (10:36 am)>> If you spend over $2,000 per year in gasoline like many of the commuters in my area the long term .. 8 years or more of the Volt is the same as any economy car..
Remember, we cannot just evaluate a “new” Volt or BEVs on cost alone. You can buy a moderately good economy car for $10-15K used an save money. Volt isn’t a saving money car. It’s a combination political statement, interesting and fun car with cutting-edge technology improvements over prior ICE-only cars. It also is complex and needs to be simplified to lower the costs to the more mainstream consumers.
The only time a Volt needs to be cost-evaluated is when you put it up against a comparable small 4-door sedan like a BMW 330i or Lexus. Costs about the same to buy but then you get the rebates and tax credits and then also cost-per-mile is less and you also cut down on oil usage (which is the political,environmental,societal statement).
+11
Oct 7th, 2011 (10:40 am)Me neither, and why it would bother anybody reveals more about the ‘victim mentality’ of the person being bothered than it does GM. Nobody in any showroom is going to take the wallet out of your pocket except you, so the only one to blame if you drive away in a Cruze instead of a Volt is yourself.
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (10:47 am)>> Among GM’s marketing plans include partnering with an MTV creative
>> team called MTV Scratch, and the other day Automotive News reported
>> Chevrolet will feature TV spots this month of the Sonic bungee
>> jumping and skydiving.
Somebody hand me the duct tape.
My head just exploded.
Oct 7th, 2011 (10:57 am)OT:
Chapman Tempe doesn’t have the Demo yet but soon.
I asked the fleet manager who I have chatted w/ in emails for the last year if I could have the Volt Demo overnight and should get a response today.
Any guesses as to what the answer will be????
+6
Oct 7th, 2011 (11:00 am)You’re looking at the glass as one that is half empty, I see it as half full.
We are in a different era now compared to the day of the EV1. There’s no turning back for GM this time, just moving forward.
The big question for GM in moving forward is in choosing which direction to go. They’ve taken a big risk with the Volt in that it is an idea that hasn’t been seen before; whether or not it would find marketing success could only be answered with hunches and not with historical statistical data.
As it is now, the hard core element within the green community hates the Volt for its impurity, believing it to be a environmental fraud due to it not being fully electric. And the mass market is still largely confused and unsure exactly what the virtues of the Volt are, whether its high price can be justified.
In the long run I see the Volt and its offspring winning out, and at this time it’s probably best if GM continues their conservative build up with the Volt to get it right, rather than letting volumes go beyond their ability to control problems and issues that pop up.
+7
Oct 7th, 2011 (11:05 am)Nothing wrong with a halo car if it also accomplishes something meaningful. The Volt definitely does that. It shows that an EREV not only can be done, but that it can be done successfully and be a hit. This won’t be lost on competitors. The demographic of the Volt buyer is very desirable — I don’t think that BMW and MB have failed to note that the average Volt buyer’s family income is above their average — which means that it’s more likely they’ll come up with their own entrants in the category. More EVs will be better.
The Volt also shows that GM can do some spectacular things. But this is not that meaningful. The Prowler did this for Chrysler back in the day but ultimately it was just another neat car. Nothing new or special. It helps the company for the moment but that’s it.
The Volt on the other hand establishes new benchmarks. Last year the Prius set the benchmark for fuel economy. If you wanted the best MPG you bought one. But that was then and this is now, and now the Prius is what you buy if you can’t afford a Volt. I see it when people ask me what MPG I get. When they venture 75 MPG and tell them I’m a lot closer to 1000 MPG than to 75 MPG. And when I tell them how many miles I’ve gone and how much gas I’ve used you can see the light bulb come on as they radically revise in their own minds how much (or little) gas you should be able to use. After the Volt, the bogey for what people expect out of electrified cars is a lot higher than it was before. And that’s good for everyone but the oil producing states.
I also expect that the Volt and its progeny will turn into far more than halo cars as time goes on. The fact is that electric cars are better than ICE cars. They’re far more quiet, they’re far far far smoother, and they have far more performance in those areas (like start/stop traffic) that matter for 90% of your driving. Once you drive them it’s hard to go back to an ICE for a daily ride. I would not be surprised if sales of the Gen II Volt equals or surpasses current sales of the Toyota Prius. But for that to happen we’ll have to see a reduced price, more education (the Volt really doesn’t cost more over 5 years than a Cruze), or both.
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (11:13 am)James #12:
What you said. Plus 100. If I could plus that many.
Added more:
Let’s face it. GM has decided to add the e-assist to all of their cars from the Malibu size up. That is going to get them a few more miles per gallon. Which is good, of course. No Voltec technology to be added. Too expensive? Who knows.
What this decision does it two things beyond helping their MPG figures. One it keeps customers tied to the dealer’s service departments. That is where the dealers make most of their money. It also keeps the dealer’s parts department selling parts and keeps the parts manufacturers working. All of this is good. In GM’s view. It is good for GM. It is good for the manufacturers. It is certainly good for the dealers. It is not good for the consumer.
The second thing it does is it keeps us hooked on gasoline, diesel and other oil related products. Whether this is good for GM depends. They make a lot of money selling ICE equipment. It is good for the other manufacturers. It is, again, certainly good for the dealers. It is good for the people who really hate us but loves our money. It is not good for the consumer. And it is not good for our nation, as a whole. And it is not good for the environment.
To paraphrase Herman Cain: “How is that working out for you?”.
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (11:15 am)There is a good article on the BMWi3 at SAE dot org:
http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/10132
It says that the i3 can be ordered with or without the range extender. Pretty interesting plus some other good stuff.
Oct 7th, 2011 (11:33 am)Bonaire – I like your description of being in the Volt as a ‘space capsule’, that is what its like.
People keep saying not to compare the Volt to $20,000 cars because it is so nice.
Well there are a lot of us who can only buy $20,000 cars or our wives will divorce us.
So no matter how much we want to ‘help the cause’ etc., we can only do it if we can afford it.
So the Volt is 40K, and with the tax credit the gas savings aren’t quite enough to allow me to buy it.
As I keep saying it’s all the governments fault because GM has to max the profit for its 200,000 tax credit quota. The credit should have been per kwh and just phased out between 2015 and 2020.
Then GM already would have a 40K, 35K and 30K option and I’d be driving one now.
The battery costs $8,000, they easily could make a 30K car with the same drivetrain without all the bells and whistles, then I’d be at 22.5k with the rebate and I’d be ahead of a comparable car in one year.
The only reason EV’s aren’t taking off NOW is because the government rebate has forced these companies to move slowly. And in the meantime GM rightly wants to sell the other cars. When Nissan starts cranking out cars in tennessee GM will drop its price. But GM can’t be sitting there selling the Volt without a tax credit at the same time Nissan can sell a $32,000 car with a $7500 tax credit.
I don’t believe they can’t create a stipped down Volt with a 30K sticker by MY 2013
+14
Oct 7th, 2011 (11:34 am)I find the Volt to be a “Hello” car. Drivers roll down their windows to ask questions and the conversation may continue at the next traffic light! Drivers of gas guzzlers are taking notice and no showroom is needed for the on-the-road educational training occurring as we enjoy our Volts.
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (11:45 am)Question Mark:
How many times have you gotten someone w/ an angry politically oriented rant about the car???
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (11:57 am)You have to think that less money spent is good for GM. There is a empirical relationship between gas prices and GDP. Don’t have the exact figures but it’s one of those “the less the more” relationships. And the more money consumers have to spend the more likely it is that GM can sell more cars.
In regard to your point about benefits from less reliance on oil for transportation, Hugo Chavez is meeting with Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin at his presidential palace. Right before he announced the seizures of private property. The meetings of the petrol heads. If that doesn’t make you want to drive an EV nothing will.
+3
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:06 pm)#9
An E-assist Sonic, or maybe a Spark, might get pretty close to Prius numbers. Sounds like a plan to me. +1
-10
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:09 pm)(click to show comment)
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:13 pm)#26
Never in my case, and I’ve been driving mine every days since March. Lots of positive feedback, ZERO negative. B1567.
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:18 pm)Focusing on the California small vehicle market is critical; considering the World economic state. In the past; GM IMO relinquished its small vehicle market share too Honda & Toyota because they couldn’t compete with their reliability. So instead GM focused more on higher profit vehicles and would suffer in sales whenever gas prices went up or the economy went down. So it is very important to build your Sonics & Cruise etc. but with new battery tech inevitably being developed, DO NOT put yourself in a catch-up position like you have to do now with having to develop a quality, reliable, appealing small vehicle market to compete with when it comes to all kinds of EVs. For example: the Prius continues to be a big competitor to GM, fortunately the PIP is over-priced IMO. Just make sure you’re ready to ride the EV wave, not get crushed by it JMO.
+4
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:20 pm)Halo, schmalo. I’m passing up a LOT of gas stations where I would have had to stop before, and I LOVE it.
If the demand materializes they will sell lots of Volts. if not, they will deservedly enjoy high tech bragging rights. It looks like a winner either way to me.
BTW, a recent post on the UAW agreement mentioned a plant to build a new “mid-sized” pickup. Yesterday Autoweek reported that it wil be the next generation Colorado. They said that Colorado sales are up something like 40% this year, to a total of 23,000. And GM is so happy about it that they are investing $387 million in a plant to build the new one. I think that it cast a lot of light on all of these discussions about levels of Volt sales.
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:21 pm)#31
Amen. +1
+3
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:23 pm)For people who keep cars for 5 years or more, they will be ahead any way. And GM has shown how to eliminate a huge amount of the gas required from daily commutes. Nissan has cleared a path for owners to eliminate all gas from their daily commutes. It is now up to OEM’s to put the technology in less expensive packages or smaller battery configurations now that the vehicles are beyond on the road demonstrations. That’s not a government function.
Hybrids already exist and have had their incentives. You can still buy a Prius, Fusion, Escape etc. Cars with small batteries are hybrids. Cars with big batteries can run as EV’s. There are only 3 manufacturers that have taken the challenge and put vehicles with big batteries on the road. One of the OEM’s would not even exist without it’s only purpose of fielding innovative paradigm shifting EV’s, and the other two see EV’s as game changers worth the huge risk among ICE purveyors.
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:25 pm)Unfortunately you’re right. The program is ill-conceived. It should have been for a global number of cars, no matter the manufacturer and should have been a rebate and not a tax credit.
On the other hand, 40K for a breakthrough novelty is not that much expensive. It is only if you compare it to a regular ICE car.
Is it too late to restructure the whole thing and make it right ?
+6
Oct 7th, 2011 (12:35 pm)Never on the road or at a gas station. Surprisingly it has been with a few employees at midwest Chevrolet dealers who are very opinionated when asked about the Volt. Since they didn’t have it on the showroom floor, they went negative immediately so they could push the cars they did have or express their dissatisfaction that it is too expensive. I would bring up that I owned a Volt since December and then spend a few minutes mentioning to them on how great the car is, taking their negative comment and adding the facts that answered their criticism.
I have discussed with dealer management that instead of bashing the Volt, have every employee make positive statements like, “Isn’t it great that the Chevrolet Volt is the 2011 Motor Trend Car of the Year? That’s why you can be confident in the engineering excellence of our other models, like this wonderfully designed Chevrolet Cruze.”
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (1:00 pm)It’s never too late to make changes, but the only way to make it right and not make manufacturers mad it to spend more money.
If they just changed it to say its good for the next 1 million cars period instead of the 200,000 per manufacturer, then the folks investing now but coming late to the party will scream and complain. But if they did that then GM Could exploit their LEAD and still bring out all sorts of models including a stripped down Volt etc., THen they could hoard the benefits of that tax credit but the latecomers now in development would lobby hard against that.
Oct 7th, 2011 (1:14 pm)Jeff, I am still having trouble posting.
+3
Oct 7th, 2011 (1:14 pm)We sometimes forget that GM is still a company struggling out of bankruptcy; and what I see is a government-dependent operation looking nervously ahead to late 2012, trying desperately to get it’s economic picture manageable. Don’t look for much boldness at the helm until after the election.
Oct 7th, 2011 (1:17 pm)Noel Park,
Mark Z,
Interesting, that’s good.
+13
Oct 7th, 2011 (1:20 pm)It will take much longer to electrify the nation’s automotive fleet than any of us would like. We are much closer to the beginning than the end. I think many of us always understood this. The greatest attribute of the Volt was always it’s future promise: what it points to, what it could become. Nothing happens quickly, and for Volt to already be at “limited production” and “Halo” is nothing short of astonishing. It is too soon to look at original goals and close the books. This story is still unfolding.
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (1:23 pm)Are you saying GM is fearful that if Republicans win in landslide in 2012 they would reduce/remove the existing credits? That would be a reason to move faster.
The main problem with the existing credits is that it includes all these foreign companies (audi etc.) that come late to the party instead of using the money for GM/Ford to really make something big happen.
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (1:33 pm)Not necessarily the tax credits, though that’s certainly possible. I’m thinking more about the government stake in the company. Either way, I don’t think GM will take the risk to speed things up; they’d have to obligate funds now to do it, and it wouldn’t yield fruit until well into the next administration. What they may find instead is that they will need those funds to buy back as much gov’t ownership as possible during that administration.
Uncertainty = caution.
At least, they have to be thinking about potential changes in the political environment.
I think it’s good news that GM is still committed to keeping the programs at current, or soon expected levels.
+7
Oct 7th, 2011 (1:39 pm)Sales year 1 – 300
Sales year 2 – 17,700
Sales year 3 – 15,200
Sales year 4 – 19,000
“Too little, too slowly… the fear of it becoming a halo vehicle.”
Funny how your quote fits the first sales years for the Prius so well.
+3
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:02 pm)When the Volt out sells all other GM cars, that’s when Mark Reuss and any other halo car preachers will sing a different tune. Of course for a limited production car to out sell normal production cars it means people need to stop buying gas only cars. Take a wild guess what GM would do if the Voltec Volt was the only car people were buying from them.
1. Productions would increase.
2. Voltec variants would appear in all price ranges.
3. Improvements would result.
People have the power to change the direction auto companies take.$$ If your lease is up or you need to replace your car and cannot afford a Volt, don’t buy new. That sends the right message and saves you money to boot.
NPNS! – No Plug, No Sale!
Volt#671
-1
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:04 pm)#41 TomW Are you saying GM is fearful that if Republicans win in landslide in 2012 they would reduce/remove the existing credits?
Just 1 of many reasons not to elect more Republicans into Government IMHO
+7
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:06 pm)jeffhre,
_John1701 – “Too little, too slowly… the fear of it becoming a halo vehicle.”
Jeffhre – ‘Funny how your quote fits the first sales years for the Prius so well.’_
Ouch!! Thats going to leave a mark!
LOL!
+7
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:16 pm)I think they should bring back the Volt Dancers
+12
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:21 pm)Everytime you type this, i think of the PiP. Too little battery, too slowly to develop.
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:22 pm)I bet Politicians wish they could go back and edit what they say; to hide what they are thinking. Hmmm
+3
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:23 pm)LOL, but unfortunately it’s never left an impression. Not the first time I’ve mentioned this bit of trivia to him
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:29 pm)I’m thinking that it’s almost the 1 exception against electing Republicans. Arguments can be made in favor or against either party. Let’s do our best not to paint with a broad brush, at least where the Volt is concerned.
In fact, I think it’s possible that GM has been gaming the political scene since before Obama (I’m not saying this is what happened, or that I actually believe it; but it’s interesting how closely it fits what we saw).
GM, facing extinction without government intervention, knew that a coming Obama administration was likely to be more sympathetic; especially with the “carrot” of an EV program. Desperation at some level may have played a role in greenlighting the Volt. EREV was only marginally a “green” program, but the Left took it as such. The Volt continued to be touted as a car for everybody, even as it became clear that it would be too expensive for most (to the apparent dismay of John1701a). The Democratic regime stepped in with the tax credits; giving GM more resources to develop the technology anyway — and cement their recovery.
GM canceled it’s advertising contracts with the Right-Wing Mouthpieces, not willing to prejudice the coming regime. This, and the Left’s perception of the “green” Volt caused them to consistently trash the car on their shows. It became a symbol of “Government Motors,” even though GM built millions of non-Volts during the period. This only helped the Volt in a Democratic administration.
Obama closely identifies himself with the Volt, even though it actually pre-dates his administration, and it was George W Bush who signed TARP; which indirectly kept the program alive. Most importantly, GM survived. This indicates “success” for all of GM’s machinations.
Now, let’s imagine that GM has decided that Obama will be a one-term president, and must now prepare for the Republicans:
It puts the brakes on any downward market for EREV, and adds a vehicle which will be attractive to wealthier, more likely conservative buyers; one which will necessarily come off as less “green” than the Volt. It finds development beyond this too risky, until they find out how much the association with Obama and the ire of the Mouthpieces have hurt them.
Prediction: ELR advertising will be centered on luxury and performance, with plug-in economy a distant mention. Volt will continue to be available, but cost reduction will only follow cuts in the tax credits, significant competition, consistently high Volt sales, or some combination of these. Overseas sales of the Ampera will be the considered the primary justification for the program.
As I say, this is only a theoretical scenario. I hope that this isn’t correct, but we should at least consider it.
IMHO
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:32 pm)Speaking of the California small car market, I like the Chevy Sonic, and the Beat/Spark, but I think GM should do something like the Hyundai Veloster. Its got a cool look (3 doors?), and may appeal to the younger target audience they speak about. Put E-assist in it and you have a winner. Maybe they could bring back the Pontiac Soltice / Saturn Sky, tweak it a bit, make it a Chevy, and voila.
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:35 pm)They didn’t guess well on that one. Since Obama’s team recommended delaying Volt development, effectively cancelling the Volt in it’s current form, once the “no initial profit” analysis was revealed.
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (2:38 pm)… but it didn’t stop Obama from wallowing in the Volt program at every opportunity. Did he listen to his team? Just asking. Events following the report seem to argue otherwise.
+3
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:03 pm)I think of the PiP as “too little, too late.”
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:05 pm)Bring on the llama!
+9
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:19 pm)Ultimately, it’s all about the consumer. GM is a company out to make a profit. That means that they will, eventually, make as many as consumers are willing to buy.
It’s up to the consuming public if this remains a niche product, or it it goes mainstream. If the Volt’s waiting list continues to grow after they’ve increased production, GM will continue to increase production. With a time lag, but they will increase production.
+4
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:20 pm)The Prius was most definitely a halo car for Toyota for the first 5-6 years. The Prius came out in 1997 and didn’t have any real sales numbers until early 2000′s. In 2007, you’re looking at a vehicle thats been in production for over 10 years, can’t really compare to the two.
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:29 pm)In addition, GM is probably wise to wait until the next generation of Voltec any way. We know ELR will be Voltec 1.5, why spread the tech around when its still to expensive? Remember the Volt has barley been on sale for less than a year, it took the Prius many many years before it spread to other vehicles and 15 years for it to expand on the Prius lineup. If GM is selling 60-100k volts a year through 2015, the Volt will have been a massive success, at which point you’ll probably see an expansion of the Voltec into other variants. This is probably exactly how all the other manufactures will play their cards too, the electrification of the vehicle is a very expensive and risky endeavor and I don’t think any of them want to get burned to bad in this early stage.
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:37 pm)I think the Volt has turned out pretty well. My hat’s off to you who have bought a Volt. Thanks!
Unfortunately, I will not be buying a new one.
I can not afford it
The limmited rollout means the technology and parts are going to be a bit of an unknown to the average GM Goodwrench, let alone the average body shop.
Someone compared a Impala and a Volt with serious front end damage — took 3 days to rebuild the Impala, 7 weeks for the Volt. no i dont have a link — and this was a while ago but..
Battery technology is improving – I do not want a $15.000 battery pack I have to live with for 8+ years*
Now when these Volts come off lease — hmm, a nice one from some green-minded people who have put almost no miles on the emgine.
*
Automotive size batterys are just starting to be mass produced — we are going to see some dramatic reductions
soon, and nearly 2x is pretty darn good.
+11
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:43 pm)Game. Set. Match. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha!
It’s so funny because it’s so true.
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:44 pm)Was this guy just selling a book.
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:46 pm)Somewhat breaking news:
“GM won’t add second shift at Detroit-Hamtramck until 2012″
http://www.detnews.com/article/20111007/AUTO01/110070436/1148/auto01/GM-won-t-add-second-shift-at-Detroit-Hamtramck-until-2012
Seems like they are trying to save $ and be more effiecient even w/their plant & personnel.
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:49 pm)Khadgars, the problem with waiting for generation 2 of the Voltec system is that battery tech is dropping in price around 8% a year, and the economies of scale are only beginning to be felt.
EREV is strong because it uses both inexpensive electricity for the first 35-40 miles plus an ICe that allows for long range and super-quick refueling. But it pays for this ‘best of both worlds’ with a heavier car and a higher price point. But in 8 or 9 years, batteries will be cheap enough that we will be able to buy a car with 160 to 200 miles of all electric range at a reasonable price. (40 to 50 kWh’s could be purchased for as little as $9500, maybe less for the smaller application)
So the Voltec tech is only going to be MT COTY material for another 6 or 7 years, tops, and if GM burns through 3 years trying to maximize their profit rather than maximizing their sales, they miss their chance to be a market leader in order to take a short lived burst of padded profit-making, not that there is anything wrong with profits, I am all in favor of them. But this is no time to wait for the competition to catch up… GM has a huge lead, in part due to their work on the EV1 years ago, and they should be doubling down on their strengths, not walking away from the table.
Khadgars,
Oct 7th, 2011 (3:52 pm)#51 Jackson Let’s do our best not to paint with a broad brush.
Believe me; as an Independent, I do my best to see the big picture when deciding on candidates. However; even I can see that most Republicans, especially Tea Party members, are using a very broad brush when it comes to working with the Obama AdminIMHO. We need well educated Congressmen that are not paid for by Wall St. and are willing to work together for the greater good of the Nation. IMO most Republicans want Obama to fail by obstructing anything he tries to do with the hope that people will blame him for nothing getting done. Well, I think this strategy will back-fire on them. I just hope the Nation can recover from this political battle. My apologies for OT comments.
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (4:03 pm)Who you want elected depends a great deal on context. I support a lot of Republicans at the local and state level, which is why I end up with invitations to Tea Party events, even if I don’t know that’s what it is in advance! But at the federal level? No. These people are so stupid they’re dangerous. Even when they have the right answer they want to do it at the wrong time. Are tax cuts good? Yes if you’re going to cut spending. Not, however, if you’re going to start two wars and enact an expensive pharmaceutical benefit. Is deficit reduction a good thing? You betcha. But not when you’re looking at a mini-Depression induced by demand destruction. That’s exactly when you DON’T want to cut spending. Right answers, wrong times. If they were investors they’d embody the “buy high sell low” philosophy.
As for GM being politically well connected before Obama, you have that right. Why does the incentive for the Volt battery pack end at 16 kWh? Why not at 18 kWh? How about 24 kWh? Could this have something to do with the fact that when the language was enacted, which was BTW during the Bush Administration, the Chairman of the Committee which wrote the bill was married to the chief lobbyist for GM? I’m thinking “maybe”. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
+7
Oct 7th, 2011 (4:09 pm)On the Voltage chat today, there was yet another “leak” where it was said that there seems to be forthcoming activity that is outside of Voltec…
2:51 Comment From Jen( Transsolarcorp.com)
Are you guys going to have an all electric vehicle in the future?
2:52 Britta Gross:
Jen. Yes, we just recently announce a production agreement with A123. We’ll have more details soon!
The quick yes and soon! implies (to me) this. Sometime in 2012 a new 2013-14? model will be announced to compete with the Leaf. I suspect this will be an electrified Sonic with electric motor only and on-board 24kWh (roughly) A123 prismatic packs. Why A123 vs. LG? They’re abuse-proof, you can use a wider-range of the cell’s capacity. They could be setup without the TMS, cutting costs and driving forth a $23K pre-incentives BEV beating back the costs of a Leaf and being entirely USA-made. They’re 2nd supplier and LG will be used for the higher run-rate of the Voltec. This means all GM needs to do is fit the electric motor and battery system into a Sonic, build the software and you got a great “Leaf Killer” (Leaf burner? raker? something?) This would be “hot” in terms of attracting BEV buyers to a lower-cost, all-USA made model. Time to market could be one year from announcement.
Trouble spots are A123 is burning money now and needs this type of injection of income to get their balance sheet into the black.
Oct 7th, 2011 (4:09 pm)Your BEV success scenario assumes that rapid, public charging reaches the ability and saturation needed to replace the gasoline fill-up. I am much less optimistic that this will be the case anytime soon, I believe it will take decades. Little urban “EV islands” of lower level charging stations will begin to pop up, but won’t be plentiful enough across the countryside for trips; “fillup-fast” charging will have to wait for much better batteries (which may not equate with “cheaper”). That’s assuming that recharging 50kwh in 10 minutes ever becomes possible (not without a TMS, I’m betting).
I’ve said this before (so the weary may skip), but I think that EREV range will ultimately be defined by the maximum charge one can get at home overnight (100 miles claimed for 220V@8 hours for LEAF). Would these batteries be cheaper without being capable of the “fillup-fast” charge? Would they be rugged enough without the TMS? We’ll have to wait and see.
The other part of the equation is the engine’s justification for less use (and it’s ability to sit longer waiting for an extended trip). Better batteries will allow a CS mode with a much larger buffer; this translates into getting by with a much smaller engine (for a start). I suppose it could still hit “maintenance mode,” but an active system to maintain fuel longevity with an additive dispenser would also help in the area of less-frequent fill ups. (GM is known to have patented such a system).
GM and other manufacturers of EREV-style vehicles will be motivated, in part, by market perception (“bigger is better,” which gave us the V8), and a lack of understanding when comparing EREV to the super-BEVs you describe. I think EREV100 will have relevance far into the future.
When the ubiquitous charging network finally appears, the EREV can then be used as the bridge to some other alternative energy source, such as CNG, Hydrogen or some other type certain to suffer from limited availability. In other words, electricity will fulfill the role of gasoline, and the alternative will fulfill the role of electricity: what exists everywhere supporting the use of something which doesn’t.
We may not be done with the EREV by the turn of the next century.
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (4:10 pm)You know when I was a young engineer at Garrett the Vietnam war was on. Like most young people I was against the war and there I was working in aerospace. I had semi long hair and a mustache. All us young engineers and spouses had a great time doing STUFF. Like going to Rocky Point, Powell on 45′ rented houseboat, parties, concerts, etc, etc. It was a great time.
and you know what???
We never talked about politics….and that was an even more stressing time w/ the war on and all….
But now, that’s all everyone talks about. It’s a nation of people obsessed.
I don’t get it. I am so sick of listening to it I could puke.
-4
Oct 7th, 2011 (4:37 pm)Thinking that won’t change the reality that GM will be pushing eAssist and traditional vehicles like Cruze while waiting for the second generation of Volt.
In the meantime, the battery in Prius is right-sized for high-volume sales and will be right on time to take advantage of the opportunity.
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (4:43 pm)Thinking things that don’t change reality is a problem you haven’t dealt with yourself. Until you do, lay off kdawg (and the rest of us, while you’re at it).
Oct 7th, 2011 (4:48 pm)Some differences between then & now:
1) Corporate America much more invested in politics
2) The internet
Something that is the same….. we are still in a war where thousands die, and most everyone wanted/wants the troops to come home.
Oct 7th, 2011 (4:56 pm)OT:
Has anyone else seen the Volt-at-the-gas-station commercials (and the Prius family including PiP commercial) during the Baseball division playoffs?
Oct 7th, 2011 (5:13 pm)#45
FWIW, I’m with you. +1
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (5:20 pm)#72
Amen. +1
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (5:20 pm)Since we can’t seem to shake politics:
I’ve always found it remarkable that so many people with differing views agree on the Volt as both a car and a concept. Perhaps that’s the greatest message of this website, from Lyle days until now; and what speaks most to the value of the Volt itself.
+6
Oct 7th, 2011 (5:38 pm)=======================
I am just curious:
How is a $39K PIP “right-sized for high volume sales”, but a $39K Volt too expensive? And let’s be fair, the $39K PIP is similar to the Volt, not the $32K low end model. Especially when it is only going to be introduced in 14 states, which sounds a lot like how GM introduced the Volt…………..
C-5277
+4
Oct 7th, 2011 (5:39 pm)====================
The llama was a nice touch! I really miss the llama discussions!
The Volt dancers? Not so much………….
C-5277
-7
Oct 7th, 2011 (5:53 pm)$32K is the model for middle-market.
Just because Volt doesn’t also offer a second model which strived for the $30K target is no reason to disregard the fact that PIP does.
+5
Oct 7th, 2011 (6:21 pm)Man – this is a good day of discussion. It’s why I am now coming back to GM-Volt.com nearly every day, even those days when I don’t have much time, the news is a little thin or the topic a bit GM fanboyish. One other reason is the fantastic forums. Wow-it is fun tracking all the experiences folks are having out there in Voltland!
Today there are so many views and good points, nearly too many to address. When you have people like Don C, Noel Park, Jackson, Jeffhre, Laura M, Ziv, Priusophiles like John1701a and newcomers like Khadghars throwing in with their opinions ( and several others ), news and facts it makes for a rousing and very interesting fray of information that’s really thought-provoking! Good job, Jeff for pulling this all together!
Khadgars, you have some good points although your numbers are off. Toyota never called it’s Prius project a “halo” the way several GM execs now have labeled Volt publicly. Also, the Prius wasn’t even sold internationally until 1999 and in the U.S. in 2000. Several here have pointed out that Toyota took years to up Prius production and seemed tentative and surprised when it took off after the second generation. This is very true. But the fact of my previous point remains – GM SHOULD NOT FOLLOW THE PATH OF PRIUS – TOYOTA PROVED THAT THE PENT UP HUNGER FOR NEW TECHNOLOGY IS THERE! Laura is fully correct. The car biz is about pushing metal.
N Post #22 Riley, +100 also. I agree totally. GM has itself in a big conundrum since the service dept. is where dealers make the most money by far. When I sold cars years ago, that was the thrust: Discount the metal to get the folks back into the service dept. The parts industry is a several billion dollar per year business that employs many union and non union workers. It’s a dillemma and a big balancing act for GM, Ford or any car company to promote one technology that posesses very few parts and requires less maintenance over the existing machines that require more of both.
Here’s a fun ad campaign were Nissan stuck it’s neck out – http://nissan-leaf.net/2011/09/03/see-what-is-not-inside-a-nissan-leaf-video/
It’s entitled “What’s NOT in a Nissan Leaf”. It shows hundreds of parts laid out on a table – from a typical 4 cylinder ICE. This is a gutsy call, advertising-wise, since Nissan profits much from those complex greasy parts we all confront from time to time in our lives. An electric motor posesses one moving part – big difference!
I have to go and don’t have time to address many comments here – but I will say GM showed it’s cards re: Volt in the very interesting move it made to position Volt as a Chevrolet. It was a statement to Congress and to America. For the price, The Volt should have been a Buick Electra or even a Caddillac. The message was “yes we can” and as a Chevy it would garner more press and more attention from John Q. Public. At it’s price – it’s not the level many Chevrolet prospects can afford – let for those Tahoe, Suburban and truck buyers who regularly pay over $40 or $50k for a big heavy SUV.
For those that said Volt is a “hello” car and not as much “halo”…”Halo” is what Mark Ruess and other GM execs have called it. It’s a great line and a great observation from lucky Volt owners and should be an ad! But to love your Volt and state happiness that others may not be able to have one is small thinking, as I said earlier. I myself strive to own a Volt but my critique of GM is that it should be for the masses, otherwise it’s an excercise and PR tool.
RECHARGE! ,
James
+4
Oct 7th, 2011 (7:23 pm)…Or somebody else will.
+2
Oct 7th, 2011 (7:31 pm)“The fact that PIP does?” PIP does? Here’s what the official Toyota site says:
The Volt will reach all 50 States later this year, the PIP won’t even reach initial markets until next; won’t arrive in all 50 until 2013. Two years is a long time to be so certain about pricing. Let’s see the actual sticker when the car is offered for sale.
And then, there’s the rarity of the base versions of current Prius models to consider … I predict that the base model PiP is going to be very hard to find.
Here’s what you do: Photograph an actual sticker on a base model PiP, and post it here. I doubt you’ll be able to during March 2012 … or April … or May … If I’m wrong, and you can, the pic will carry more weight than your constant snarking here.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: This is not a Prius site. If you are obsessed with the Prius, this isn’t the site for you. The management and community do not guarantee that acceptable kow towing to the Prius will occur. No fandom of the Prius is expressed or implied. Consider priuschat instead.
+6
Oct 7th, 2011 (8:41 pm)I agree on that theory!!
+1
Oct 7th, 2011 (9:34 pm)BLIND GUY,
I think it best to not re-elect anyone, for the next three elections. That’s what it would take to kick them all out. Yes, or most importantly, even “your” elected official.
+1
Oct 8th, 2011 (12:14 am)And electric Proterra buses, big hybrid trucks, Cruze ECO, Volts and ELR.
Hasn’t that been true since 1997? Hopefully the world is a little different because of it by now.
Oct 8th, 2011 (4:52 am)This shows that GM’s primary goals are market share sales wise, and improving stock market share value. They have stated that they want to achieve a “fortress bank account”, and I think this is primarily to shore up share price. From the political perspective, the government will only look good if they can sell their remaining shares for a significantly higher price in order to recoup their investment. I don’t think this can be accomplished in time for the next election, but even if GM can show their share value rising, then the promise of the tax payer getting their money back will look realistic.
Oct 8th, 2011 (9:05 am)OT – check out this electric motorcycle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=irkxIpNBJJU
-3
Oct 8th, 2011 (10:07 am)This is precisely why I asked for goals to be stated last year.
Having the president of GM say Volt technology will now only play a small role is quite a change from what had been expected. The hope was to quickly exceed Prius sales, becoming the dominant player in high-efficiency & clean-emissions. Instead, we get a halo, a vehicle drawing in new consumers who end up purchasing something other than Volt.
His comment about “decades of excuses” still hasn’t been recognized by some yet. Comparing Volt sales to that of Prius when it was first rolled out is a great example. It completely disregards the current situation. 42,522 Prius were purchased in September alone, US & Japan sales combined. Some want those who convey that information to go away. How will burying your head in the sand actually help? And even if you ignore the competition entirely, watching GM’s own Cruze rise in popularity and eAssist become the technology GM pushes instead shouldn’t simply be accepted.
What do you want to happen with Volt over the next 2 years? The high price is a major deterrent. Will the suggestion of a lower cost model continue to be dismissed? When the tax-credit expires, then what? The sales forecast keeps it a niche. Wasn’t the point of Volt to replace traditional production, to be offered in high-volume? How will Volt fit into GM’s product line? Why are enthusiasts & owners still hesitant about stating goals?
+1
Oct 8th, 2011 (12:10 pm)#80
Well thank you very much! +1
+2
Oct 8th, 2011 (12:38 pm)I want to clarify and expand on this post #1. There’s absolutely NO REASON a truly industry-disrupting product like the Volt (or the iPhone) can’t become BOTH a “halo” product AND a run-away best seller! In fact, I sincerely expect the Volt to do exactly that!!!
My following comment, which I want to address to GM Management, expounds a little bit more about this dual expectation…
+2
Oct 8th, 2011 (12:42 pm)ATTN GM: Your latest Volt TV ad featuring a Volt Owner with a child & an adult, both asking the owner why he’s stopped at a gas station is extremely clever, attention-getting and artfully understated —yet it clearly explains how the Volt differs from both an ordinary car and a fully-electric car. I’ve seen this brilliant ad as many as 6-8 times in a single evening of TV watching, yet GM has just announced (see this topic’s lead article) that Chevy will not introduce other Voltec variants until 2015. Both this current heavy Volt advertising and CEO Ackerson’s repeated positive comments about scaling up both Volt production quantities and coming Voltec models seem to be in conflict with delaying new Voltec variants until 2015. GM, you need to clarify this seeming disparity internally, to your dealers and to the car-buying public as a whole.*
*I have emailed both this and the prior post to GM management to be certain they are aware of the apparent conflict between Volt advertising & recent press releases
Oct 8th, 2011 (12:44 pm)OT
For those interested there was a mention of Sakti3 status at http://green.autoblog.com/2011/10/07/solid-state-battery-updates/#aol-comments
Bill Wallace, General Motors’ director of global battery systems engineering, states:
Though risky, we do believe that solid-state lithium ion batteries have merit and we are working on their development. We see them on a potential five-year time horizon, assuming certain significant shortcomings can be resolved.
+2
Oct 8th, 2011 (12:51 pm)In the past, those aspects were mutually exclusive. Being a “halo” meant sales were diverted to other vehicles. This new definition is really what they’ve called “leading” vehicles, which is very much a compliment… not the put down “halo” was originally intended to portray.
Becoming a “leading” vehicle would qualify as a worthy goal. For that, Volt would have to place near the top of sales among GM’s car offerings, a relative measure within their own production… which is especially good, since internal competition had been trouble prior to the bankruptcy.
Oct 8th, 2011 (12:59 pm)Exactly why I think this statement of no Voltec variants before 2015 is suspect. Yes, I certainly believe that we will not see a Gen2 Volt until then but we know the ELR is coming, so isn’t that a direct contradiction? I think GM wants to keep the competition in the dark, and lull them into thinking that they have lots of time to catch up.
+1
Oct 8th, 2011 (7:51 pm)From the web chat:
Comment From Armen Hareyan
I am hoping you will keep developing EVs despite difficulties. I don’t want Hybrid’s success and the lower gas prices derail EV effort.
3:19
Britta Gross: Armen, me too. We are committed to continually the development of electric vehicle technologies. We’ve made great progress with batteries, electric motors, power controls and electronics. We think the Volt is a winner and the start of something great. The more people that experience a Volt the better the chance all EVs stand of becoming a success.
And from the battery web chat a couple of weeks ago:
Bill Wallace: Alex, we’re glad you love your Volt! You might be surprised to learn that large format batteries are actually less expensive to produce in high volume and high capacity than small format batteries like the 18650, and that’s why we use them. They’re also easier to cool.
GM has committed a major portion of its resources to electrification of the automobile. They are not going to stop now. I believe they are working hard on Voltec variations although it is hard to say when they will be introduced.
-1
Oct 8th, 2011 (8:41 pm)Sad to see GM so openly saying Volt for them is just a Halo car (i.e. they don’t really care about one thing that brings a lot of us here – reducing oil use). Hope Toyota & Ford are more serious (having serious doubts about Ford, now-a-days).
Nissan seems to be on plan to start some serious production next year. Despite the Tsunami, TN plant will go online in 2012, according to latest news. We are looking at more than 12K a month of Leaf (and other EVs). To put this in perspective – only one Nissan model would sell more than this (the Altima). Versa sells about 10K a month. 12K would be nearly 20% of Nissan’s monthly sales and all that Ghosn promised was 10% EV share by 2020.
We don’t know whether they can actually sell that many EVs a month – but atleast they will try.
+3
Oct 8th, 2011 (9:28 pm)Hi Jackson,
I’m looking into it. Sorry for the trouble. I know you had issues when Lyle was running the site also.
Nothing will happen over the weekend, but we have IT people who will do what they can M-F.
Feel free to reach out any time.
Jeff
Oct 9th, 2011 (8:57 am)There is no way Leaf will sell 12K a month next year (in my opinion) given the cost and range-anxiety that people truly feel. Maybe as car-share and taxi-fleet but not to individual consumers. The Leaf batteries, without a TMS, are prone to shorter life and the most danger to a Leaf owner is shorter life, lower capacity and a high replacement bill. Or, maybe GE leases batteries and warrants them to 150K miles even without a TMS?
I truly believe some domestic company (ie. GM and Ford) will put together a Leaf-blower – something that comes in under-Leaf costs that is just as compelling and offers people a $25K or so cost pre-incentive which would make the Leaf almost obsolete and the TN plant scrambling. I bet Ford Focus electric will also be well accepted and cut into the “import” EVs like the Leaf. Nissan said the TN plant would produce 120K Leafs per year. Well, for how long? There is a market for EVs but how large is it? The domestic and foreign battery-powered car market is growing but that fast? 300K/year in a couple years? I highly doubt it – but it may happen in the out years towards 2020+. Just too many people cannot afford them unless they start to hit below certain price points like $23K pre-incentive and have incentives factored in AT THE POINT OF SALE and not this silly tax credit. Many people below a certain income level just cannot use a Tax Credit.
To support a thriving EV market, someone must have some secret knowledge of oil and gas prices in the next 2-3 years. Until gas is well over $4.50 nationally, the market will not really gain maximum traction. Maybe we will be exporting vehicles (which would be great!) to Canada and Europe – finally, a growth in the export market for the USA.
Unless Leaf used USA-sourced batteries (ie. A123) which don’t need as much TMS, I would never consider it. I am considering a Volt with LG-owned, but locally sourced batteries in the Volt – or perhaps will wait a bit to see what GM does with their A123 solution. This is a quick-changing marketplace now and if Nissan thinks they will sell that many Leafs next year, they’re really working off of some type of market research that I’ve never seen.
+5
Oct 9th, 2011 (9:50 am)My volt is currently on order and I’m expecting it in 5 weeks…. can not wait to bring her home.
+3
Oct 9th, 2011 (11:35 am)Ding! ding! We have a winnah heah!
It IS ultimately up to the consumer. Any thinking otherwise is related to the ‘victim mentality’ I mentioned earlier with a heavy dose of ‘entitlement mentality’ thrown in.
The only caveat is that we must assume GM is capable of looking into the future and basing their decision making upon what they see. Their past record on this has not been stellar.
However, based upon the company’s recent bankruptcy and subsequent labor/management overhaul as well as their commitment to date with the Volt, I lean towards giving them the benefit of the doubt. I do believe they will stay the course and continue efforts toward establishing the Volt’s place in their product portfolio at least through 2015.
By then the car buying public will have cast their votes. Let’s hope there’s enough of them to keep the ball rolling.
I am optimistic it will, for many reasons. By 2015 there will be other serious players besides GM with their own electric powered “halos” at a time when gasoline prices will likely be around $5 per gallon and climbing. It would be treasonous for GM to drop out of the EREV/BEV market segment given such a scenario.
Oct 11th, 2011 (12:08 pm)Bingo. It’s still about the batteries. Until they get a LOT better, start/stop, direct injection, tubocharging, diesel, etc. will be by FAR the biggest way the automakers get better fuel economy.
Oct 13th, 2011 (1:01 am)I gave you a plus 1 on that one except I wouldn’t call it a mini depression. What would happen if all the kids from Michigan, Ohio, California, Nevada etc. weren’t part of a two front war and instead were looking for jobs in the states getting the absolute worst of the recession.