Aug 16

SAE/IEEE ‘combo coupler’ offers flexible accessibility to AC and DC charging

 

A new “combo connector” to charge battery propelled automobiles is being rapidly developed based on a collaboration between the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE.)

The new standard has an SAE J1772 AC charge connector on top and a 2-pin DC charge connector below and is intended to enable either AC or DC Level 1 and Level 2 charging via a single connection.

The effort is the result of a strategic partnership formed within the past half year between the two international standards-development organizations (SDOs) in an effort to stabilize and unify the global electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicle (EV/PHEV) market.


The SAE and IEEE are working on a single connector that could be universally used in all countries, by all manufacturers.

In an article by Jack Pokrzywa, director of global ground vehicle standards, SAE International, and Mary Reidy, chair of the IEEE P2030.1 Working Group, the case is made that manufacturers will be able to leverage one globally functional coupler.

“Integrating the different types of charging functionality would also greatly enhance the convenience of operating such a vehicle,” the authors wrote in SAE’s online magazine. “SAE J1772 goes further still by uniquely defining communications between an EV/PHEV, off-board charger, and the smart grid. Power Line Communications (PLC) is defined in SAE J1772 as the technology for enabling these vehicle-to-grid communications, without requiring changes such as the addition of another pin to the coupler architecture.”

The authors go on to note that the IEEE is particularity contributing as “the PLC implementations from both the HD-PLC Alliance and HomePlug Powerline Alliance are based on IEEE 1901-2010, the world’s most mature, robust, and advanced Broadband over Powerline standard. And the IEEE 1901 Inter-System Protocol prevents interference when the different PLC implementations are operated within close proximity of one another.”

At present, the SAE J1772 standard as used on the Chevrolet Volt has already been adopted by not just GM, but also Ford, Honda, Nissan and Toyota.

The authors say the SAE plans in the first quarter of 2012 to establish a standard enabling EVs/PHEVs to utilize current from either a conventional 15-amp AC wall outlet or DC connector up to 90 kilowatts.

The collaboration resulting in a marriage of standards by the two SDOs is also in anticipation of the demands of developing smart grids, and to avoid furthering mutually contradictory goals.

“The smart grid effort is different in the sweep of technologies, industries, and markets that it touches,” the authors write. “For manufacturers, utilities, governments, and consumers to realize the smart grid’s benefits as quickly and cost-effectively as possible, the global standards community must operate cooperatively to logically integrate the work across technology spaces.”

The authors go on to document many other standards also now being worked out by the two SDOs which at other times have competed or worked without consulting with the other resulting in incompatible standards.

No word was given when the combo coupler would be introduced into production, or whether any manufacturers have yet signed on to installing it on any pending vehicles.

The CHAdeMO DC quick charger is not mentioned, but the lower DC charging portion of the combo coupler is essentially like a CHAdeMO coupler, but it does not appear identical.

For more info, the entire article is linked here.

This entry was posted on Tuesday, August 16th, 2011 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 59


  1. 1
    Eco_Turbo

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (6:42 am)

    Seems to facilitate Grid to Vehicle or Vehicle to Grid. Maybe someday a utility will pay for my battery, while I have fun distributing it’s power around the grid!


  2. 2
    nasaman

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (7:23 am)

    This is certainly an important step forward in standardization. However, I must say that, living in “hurricane alley” Florida, I’m much more interested in V2H —IOW, an optional inverter to supply 115V AC power from my Volt’s battery for lights, refrig, radio & TV during any grid power outages.


  3. 3
    Jim I

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (7:37 am)

    I agree with nasaman on this one, but I don’t think that GM is going to make this available until they have some long term statistics on the reliability of the Voltec system. And with only 4K cars on the road for less than one year, that isn’t long term enough….

    And I can see their point. How would this affect:

    Warranty issues on the battery pack and/or the entire car
    What if something on the load side shorted out and destroyed the electronics of the car
    You are giving the end user access to a high voltage system. I am sure there are liability issues
    etc, etc, etc……

    So it may be Gen-2 or Gen-3 before we see this kind of functionality added.

    JMHO


  4. 4
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (7:43 am)

    Good article! This one didn’t show up on my searches. Good find Jeff!

    I’m very interested in this V2H and V2G concept. Combined with a CNG genset it’s a killer app.


  5. 5
    fishhawk

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (8:13 am)

    The connector doesn’t look like it would fit the Volt or Leaf – the DC portion will be blocked by the frame around charge port. I understand the Volt and Leaf won’t be able to use the DC portion, but seems like there has to be some sort of backwards compatibility to make the connector fit, leaving the DC portion unconnected.

    If this standard is adopted, I hope that charge stations of the future will still have a way of charging the Volt and the Leaf without requiring the owners to spend a lot of money on an adapter (ala Tesla) or doing a conversion.


  6. 6
    Roy_H

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (8:55 am)

    I like the original version, it was more compact. But if this is what it takes to get everybody on board for an international standard then so be it. The existing Volts are not designed to take advantage of the DC high power charge, so the larger design is irrelevant. On the other hand, charge stations will have to have two connectors one for Level 2 like the Volt and another for Level 3.


  7. 7
    Mark Z

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (9:04 am)

    I don’t have a problem with this IF the top connector can be used with existing charge stations or charge cords. Makes sense to use the existing communications in the J1772 connection to inform the vehicle of DC power status.

    Gone will be the small round charge door on the EV, possibly replaced with a rectangular door.

    The charge handle shown on the right might only be used for DC charging, using the top connector for communications to turn on the DC power. I doubt if AC charging would occur with the larger charge handle.


  8. 8
    Shawn Marshall

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (9:40 am)

    Lot of hullaballoo about a simple plug.


  9. 9
    George S. Bower

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (10:31 am)

    Sounds good. Put it on the Volt.


  10. 10
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (10:36 am)

    Mark Z,

    Mark, seems like I read on ABG coverage of this that if you had a car w/ this new receptacle the old J1772 male end would still work.


  11. 11
    George S. Bower

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (10:56 am)

    I guess the biggest objection to this is you have one very large and cumbersome cord and handle to deal with. Maybe 2 separate receptacles like the Leaf has is a better way to go.


  12. 12
    DonC

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (10:56 am)

    This is a big deal IF you think DC Charging is important. For Volts it’s not very important. It’s probably not very important for pure EVs as well, at least in the near future, but if DC Charging will ever take off we’ll need something like this.

    Say ten years from now you want to drive your EV 350 miles. The range is there. But when you get to your destination you have to recharge. Even from a 240v charger you’re looking a day. Too long. The solution would be a quick charger. However, quick chargers take an enormous amount of electricity and you have to pay for it and you need to know that it’s operational. For all these reasons and more you have to have a standard and that standard has to allow for two-way communication.

    Since there won’t be very many DC Chargers relative to 240V chargers backward compatibility with original J1772 240v chargers isn’t an important consideration. I doubt they would work. But any DC Charger could have a second 240v J1772 plug in addition to the combo plug.

    Also, from a design and user perspective, you want one plug not two. The Leaf has two separate plugs. As a consequence it needs a very large area to accommodate both. A combo design allows for a much more compact charge port, which in turn frees up the designers. Those who think how easy it is to get to and use the plug simply don’t have any experience with an EV. Since it’s something you do every day, you want the plug to be as easily accessible and simple to use as possible.


  13. 13
    George S. Bower

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (11:08 am)

    DonC: This is a big deal IF you think DC Charging is important. For Volts it’s not very important.

    Yes it is.
    It is MORE important for the Volt.
    The fleet avg is only 69% EV.
    http://www.voltstats.net/


  14. 14
    Noel Park

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (11:38 am)

    I agree that this is largely irrelevant to current Volt owners, as very few charging stations exist, or seem likely to exist, in the immediate future. And I too would be very concerned about battery life issues.

    Is it just me, or does the J1772 plug seem a bit flimsy. Every time I plug mine in and feel a sort of deflection in the plastic, I have to wonder how it is going to hold up over several years of use. And the one shown here will be that much harder to plug and unplug, what with a lot more surface contact area.


  15. 15
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (11:52 am)

    It looks like the female receptacle could be mounted on either the car or a charger. Any new standard should include such a receptacle; it would be much less susceptible to vandalism at public charging stations than an installed cord.


  16. 16
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (11:59 am)

    Jackson: It looks like the female receptacle could be mounted on either the car or a charger.Any new standard should include such a receptacle; it would be much less susceptible to vandalism at public charging stations than an installed cord.

    That’s an interesting idea that seems to make sense. But then everyone has to drag around the cord.


  17. 17
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (12:03 pm)

    George S. Bower: That’s an interesting idea that seems to make sense. But then everyone has to drag around the cord.

    Yeah, I tried to edit my comment to include this, but for some reason I was denied permission.

    Yes, that cord would be bulkier and more expensive, but I think this could become worth it as public charging increases penetration.

    BTW, I tend to think that people aren’t going to much like getting out that cord, uncoiling it, plugging it in, unplugging it, coiling up the cord and putting it away, more than once a day at home. EV drivers would have to live with this, but EREV drivers might be less inclined to go through it both at home and at a destination. I’m not talking about excited first adopters, here. You have to magine a large fleet of plug-ins with all the panache worn off, and a rainy day.

    Maybe the hard-wired end should be on a retractable reel built into the car, with the “bulky plug” on the end which plugs into the charger. This wire would need to be much more rugged (and expensive) than the charge wires in use today, but you’d have the added advantage of enhancing driving experience.


  18. 18
    Anthony

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (12:14 pm)

    George S. Bower: Yes it is. It is MORE important for the Volt. The fleet avg is only 69% EV. http://www.voltstats.net/

    To me that has to do with the lack of charging infrastructure outside of people’s homes, not with the rate at which people can recharge. Look at that video GM posted yesterday of their employee getting 3,000 MPG in his Volt because he can plug in at both work and home.

    If everyone could plug in while they were shopping or working, the fleet average EV would go up dramatically.


  19. 19
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (12:23 pm)

    So much to respond to, so little time (long-time readers may recall my more long-winded posts on these subjects):

    I am highly skeptical of any benefit of V2G which justifies the effort.

    Ability to use the Volt as an emergency power source is an idea which should have been pursued from the beginning, IMO. Using the range-extender generator for this would have spared even the first-gen pack.

    If you use CNG in an EREV, you now have two hard-to-find fuels to look for out on the road. The main idea behind the Volt is the assurance that you can still go when there’s no place to charge. This idea is defeated when you have to go find a source of CNG out in the country somewhere. As recently as a year ago, there was only one place to refill a CNG car in the Atlanta metro area; and it wasn’t in a nice part of town. Yes, there are home devices for pumping CNG from residential gas lines, but this gets us back to home charging again.


  20. 20
    George S. Bower

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (12:26 pm)

    Jackson,

    I know. Last time I told my wife I really want a Volt (yesterday) she started whining about having to plug it in.

    So I told her about the wireless system you just drive over and she liked that idea…..but I don’t like it since you lose 10%.


  21. 21
    Mark Z

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (12:33 pm)

    George S. Bower: Mark Z,
    …seems like I read on ABG coverage of this that if you had a car w/ this new receptacle the old J1772 male end would still work.

    The beauty of the design is that it adds DC charging and keeps all the existing charging structure.

    The large charge handle would only be used at fast charge stations. The original charge cord handle would be included with all EV and E-REV vehicles. Overnight parking in the garage gives enough time for AC charging.

    With the present battery technology, fast charging is not recommended for the daily charge. You will want to charge with 120 or 240 volts AC while at work or overnight for better battery life.

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2957


  22. 22
    nasaman

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (12:55 pm)

    Jackson: “…I am highly skeptical of any benefit of V2G which justifies the effort.

    Ability to use the Volt as an emergency power source is an idea which should have been pursued from the beginning, IMO. Using the range-extender generator for this would have spared even the first-gen pack…”

    ATTN GM:
    I completely agree, Jackson! V2H could be a relatively small optional (approx 3x12x15″ for a 2.5 KW) unit that recesses into a 3″ deep cavity in the Volt’s “trunk”. Tools, charge cables, etc could be carried in this recessed cavity for those Volt owners who don’t want to buy the V2H 115V inverter.* And as you say, the Volt’s very efficient, quiet 4-cyl range extender engine could be the power source rather than its battery —analogous to a typical 2.5KW portable ‘Honda-type’ gas-powered generator, but without the noise, smoke, carbon monoxide danger & fairly limited fuel supply.*

    *How do I know this would be practical? Because I own a 2.5KW Inverter this size that I’ve used to (quietly/safely) power lights, refrig, radio, TV, fans, etc from my car’s 12V battery thru several emergency power outages!


  23. 23
    Bonaire

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (1:33 pm)

    I like the movement into DC charging. If you could work a Solar PV array into the mix and have it output DC voltage to match the car’s charger needs – you can get more efficient renewable direct charging with DC rather than DC->AC->DC as would be done by the Solar equipment.

    Also – George mentioned the wife’s attitude about plugging it in. I think it’s important to help our spouses and friends understand that “effort = a greater good” and that doing just a little can give us a lot back as a community and as a global effort. The same issue comes down to whether auto owners check their tire pressure (once a month?) or perhaps wash their cars. The adaptation of a little more effort on our parts can be a huge community benefit. In fact, when you plug in a Volt or BEV – you are primarily doing it for others and not yourself. Any “change” for the better is typically effort done for others. In other words . . . “why not?”

    I just visited my hometown of Niagara Falls and toured the local Power Vista which is atop the 13-turbine hydro-electric plant there. 2.4GW (2.4 million KW) of power is possible from this water-driven power project. Imagine cars charged off of that source and how much oil we could save along with cheaper miles-per-gallon driving?


  24. 24
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (1:36 pm)

    Jackson: Maybe the hard-wired end should be on a retractable reel built into the car

    Maybe it should be a drive-on contactor or inductive. I don’t see this plug in thing lasting more than a vehicle generation or 2 more. (I’ll bet that Converj will have inductive somehow.)

    It’s going to be way more dangerous with DC. Ever drop/arc a wrench across a battery? It ain’t pretty. Seems to me that DC would require a much heavier cable as well. Arc-welders are DC, btw.

    How about a drive-on contactor with wifi controller. No juice until it ‘sees’ a proper connection. In other words, the connection is ‘dead’ until it is properly connected.

    A robotic mechanism could guide the car to the proper spot and keep it up under a cover so that snow/ice/slop/mud wouldn’t affect the operation. If a Roomba can park on it’s charger, a car should be able to do the same thing.


  25. 25
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (1:42 pm)

    Jackson: CNG in an EREV, you now have two hard-to-find fuels to look for

    I disagree. In Texas, Oklahoma, Utah and other states, CNG is easy to find. There are 7 public stations within my normal commute today.

    With the CNG initiatives working their way through congress as we speak, it won’t be long before CNG is available easily.

    We currently have individuals that use like a tank of gas every 3000 miles! I’m thinking I can find a CNG station in 3000 miles somewhere, somehow.


  26. 26
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (1:45 pm)

    Mark Z:

    With the present battery technology, fast charging is not recommended for the daily charge.

    Go nano!


  27. 27
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (1:53 pm)

    nasaman: V2H could be a relatively small

    What about trucks? If we have a largish battery and a largish generator, I would like one for construction sites and other places without good power (like Katrina land).

    A 43kw generator for whole-house is about $15k installed. Volt is 53kw at peak. A pickup with this capability would be awesome! I’m not talking one 15-amp circuit. I’m talking the whole 200-amp enchilada.

    “More power!” – Tim Allen


  28. 28
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (1:53 pm)

    Loboc:

    With the CNG initiatives working their way through congress as we speak, it won’t be long before CNG is available easily.

    Totally agree Loboc. The oil companies are going to have us driving on it soon.

    I would rather we use the NG in Combined cycle plants that run at 60% efficiency. GE now has a combined cycle plant that adds a solar tower so that during the day the steam turbine can get heat from the tower. (same steam unit for both)….this unit get 70% cycle efficiency.

    The electricity from these plants can be used in EV’s.


  29. 29
    DonC

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (2:21 pm)

    George S. Bower: Last time I told my wife I really want a Volt (yesterday) she started whining about having to plug it in.

    Just make sure she understands that SHE won’t be driving it!!! Problem solved (one problem anyway LOL).


  30. 30
    BLIND GUY

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (2:21 pm)

    Having these standards is definitely a step in the right direction. I really do think that inductive charging will sooner rather than later be the preferred method of charging Jmo. I thought I read somewhere that power loses were less than 10% now; BTW I am assuming that DC charging can be done with inductive as well.


  31. 31
    DonC

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (2:28 pm)

    Anthony: To me that has to do with the lack of charging infrastructure outside of people’s homes, not with the rate at which people can recharge. Look at that video GM posted yesterday of their employee getting 3,000 MPG in his Volt because he can plug in at both work and home.

    I’d say home charging is 80% of the issue, work 19%, and everywhere else 1%. As you mention, if the car is parked for hours the charging rate doesn’t matter. Even a 120v charger will get the job done for an EREV or an EV (the miles per hour charge is the same).


  32. 32
    Chris C.

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (3:37 pm)

    The look of that connector adds more support to my idea for the official EV wave. Recall that Nissan had recently conducted a marketing campaign (1) soliciting ideas for the “EV wave”, similar to the wave that other iconic vehicles have (Jeep, motorcycles, VW bugs). This was hilariously lampooned by Stephen Colbert a couple weeks ago (2).

    Well, my idea is to use the shocker! (3) HA!

    1. http://green.autoblog.com/2011/07/27/nissan-seeks-your-input-on-official-leaf-wave/
    2. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/393271/july-27-2011/nissan-s–leaf-wave–deadline (fast forward one minute to get past opening)
    3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shocker_%28hand_gesture%29


  33. 33
    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (3:43 pm)

    DonC: I’d say home charging is 80% of the issue, work 19%, and everywhere else 1%.

    #31

    For me it’s more like home 55%, work 45% and everywhere else 0%. I charge at work every day but only at home on the weekends. I have had the Volt 5 months, and the only time I have ever plugged in away from the above was twice at my sister’s house for about 3 hours on 120v each time.

    I live and work in the giant LA megalopolis, and I have yet to come across a viable public charging station.

    +1 anyway, if only to cancel out whoever gave you the -1, LOL.


  34. 34
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (4:18 pm)

    Chris C.:
    The look of that connector adds more support to my idea for the official EV wave.Recall that Nissan had recently conducted a marketing campaign (1) soliciting ideas for the “EV wave”, similar to the wave that other iconic vehicles have (Jeep, motorcycles, VW bugs).This was hilariously lampooned by Stephen Colbert a couple weeks ago (2).

    Well, my idea is to use the shocker! (3)HA!

    1. http://green.autoblog.com/2011/07/27/nissan-seeks-your-input-on-official-leaf-wave/
    2. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/393271/july-27-2011/nissan-s–leaf-wave–deadline(fast forward one minute to get past opening)
    3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shocker_%28hand_gesture%29

    Are you proposing that Volt drivers use the shocker too??
    It is an EV after all.


  35. 35
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (4:23 pm)

    DonC: George S. Bower: Last time I told my wife I really want a Volt (yesterday) she started whining about having to plug it in.

    DonC: Just make sure she understands that SHE won’t be driving it!!! Problem solved (one problem anyway LOL).

    I do everything when it comes to ‘her’ car anyway. Plugging it in (and out) every day or so is one more thing. Plus, less or no trips to the gas station.

    What I really need for her is a BEV. She only drives 5 miles at a time and usually only one trip a day. A full-on road car is overkill. Maybe A123 plus GM is my answer!


  36. 36
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (4:24 pm)

    Noel Park: #31

    For me it’s more like home 55%, work 45% and everywhere else 0%.I charge at work every day but only at home on the weekends.I have had the Volt 5 months, and the only time I have ever plugged in away from the above was twice at my sister’s house for about 3 hours on 120v each time.

    I live and work in the giant LA megalopolis, and I have yet to come across a viable public charging station.

    +1 anyway, if only to cancel out whoever gave you the -1, LOL.

    Noel,
    Does your company charge you??
    If not, that is a great perk!!
    Worth around 1.20$/day.
    and a great way to keep your EV miles up.


  37. 37
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (4:26 pm)

    No, wait. way more than 1.20$.
    It is CA after all.


  38. 38
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (4:28 pm)

    Loboc: I do everything when it comes to ‘her’ car anyway. Plugging it in (and out) every day or so is one more thing. Plus, less or no trips to the gas station.

    What I really need for her is a BEV. She only drives 5 miles at a time and usually only one trip a day. A full-on road car is overkill. Maybe A123 plus GM is my answer!

    The suspense is killing me.
    What does she drive.


  39. 39
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (4:40 pm)

    George S. Bower: The suspense is killing me.
    What does she drive.

    Lol. An Impala LT 3.5l.


  40. 40
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (4:46 pm)

    Loboc: Lol. An Impala LT 3.5l.

    Ah, plugging it in WOULD be one more thing (future tense)


  41. 41
    Raymondjram

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (4:57 pm)

    George S. Bower:
    Jackson,

    I know. Last time I told my wife I really want a Volt (yesterday) she started whining about having to plug it in.

    Every gasoline powered vehicle is “plugged in” with a filler pipe, dispensing a toxic and explosive fuel. Ask her if she would prefer a gasoline powered appliance or cellphone (as shown in the Leaf ad). I still remember carrying and pouring kerosene for my mother’s stove in 1963.

    My wife wants me to get an EV so we don’t have to visit a gas station, but her complaint is the price.

    Raymond


  42. 42
    Jackson

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (5:19 pm)

    Loboc: I disagree. In Texas, Oklahoma, Utah and other states, CNG is easy to find. There are 7 public stations within my normal commute today.

    Take a look at:

    http://www.cngprices.com/

    … and see how common CNG refueling stations are outside of your stated 7 States (I see there are now two stations in Atlanta! Woo hoo!) BTW, I note that those 2 in Atlanta are the only ones in the State, there is only 1 refueling station in the State of Alabama, and NONE in Mississippi. The public EV charging infrastructure seems more robust around the country than this.

    Maybe the CNG EREV could be offered only in limited markets which are “CNG Ready,” defined as having at least 7 refueling points along the average commute. >:-P

    It’s interesting to note that there are many more CNG filling points which are listed as “Private” than “Public.”

    http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/progs/ind_state.php/GA/CNG

    This site lists Georgia as having “21 – 50″ stations, however all but one are “Private” (they missed the other public one???)

    To be fair, six more stations are shown in the “Planned” phase; but all are in the Atlanta Metro area, and who knows if they’ll be “Public.”

    Too bad, the price seems to average a little over $2.

    Meanwhile, gasoline is available widely in all 50 states.


  43. 43
    jeffhre

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (5:20 pm)

    A new “combo connector” to charge battery propelled automobiles is being rapidly developed based on a collaboration between the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE.)

    Awesome, a “turbo” charger.


  44. 44
    Loboc

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (5:41 pm)

    Jackson: Meanwhile, gasoline is available widely in all 50 states.

    At $2.40 GGE! (per gallon equivalent) in Dallas. OK is usually around a buck a gallon (a lot are 78c!). The only reason Dallas is higher is there’s no competition.

    I was a CNG advocate long before Volt was invented. It’s still a good deal in this neck of the woods. There just aren’t any CNG cars/trucks available except off-fleet or really old.


  45. 45
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (5:49 pm)

    Loboc: At $2.40 GGE! (per gallon equivalent) in Dallas. OK is usually around a buck a gallon (a lot are 78c!). The only reason Dallas is higher is there’s no competition.

    I was a CNG advocate long before Volt was invented. It’s still a good deal in this neck of the woods. There just aren’t any CNG cars/trucks available except off-fleet or really old.

    So the question becomes, who will win the infrastructure race?

    EV penetration will likely be on a par with consumer-available CNGV soon (if it isn’t already). Will CNG stations proliferate as quickly as EV charging stations? Will faster public charging be available by the time a) EVs reach significant penetration, or b) “off fleet” CNG cars and filling stations become generally available? Developments like a practical, widely-followed standard for recharging hookups will be crucial for EVs (see, this was on topic!).

    It’s likely that EVs won’t include over-the-road trucks anytime soon. Perhaps an infrastructure for CNG (or LNG) will be developed for the largest vehicles, out in the country. If so, the situation for a CNG automobile may become similar to that for a Diesel one: “Want CNG? Follow that truck!”


  46. 46
    Eco_Turbo

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (5:53 pm)

    Loboc: There just aren’t any CNG cars/trucks available except off-fleet or really old.

    How fast/slow are they?


  47. 47
    Storm

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (6:04 pm)

    Just what we need. Yet another “standard” plug. The J1772 will all have to be replaced by a rational standard down the road. The $600+ cost will prevent charging stations from being installed in the quantities we need. Will Walmart install 50 of them at these prices? 2 for PR maybe. Then, with thieves stealing copper plumbing from homes and ground wires from utility poles, we have a parking lot full of heavy copper cables with $100 connectors on the end which the standard guarantees will not be energized. Good thinking!


  48. 48
    Jackson

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (6:07 pm)

    Chris C.:
    The look of that connector adds more support to my idea for the official EV wave.Recall that Nissan had recently conducted a marketing campaign (1) soliciting ideas for the “EV wave”, similar to the wave that other iconic vehicles have (Jeep, motorcycles, VW bugs).This was hilariously lampooned by Stephen Colbert a couple weeks ago (2).

    Well, my idea is to use the shocker! (3)HA!

    1. http://green.autoblog.com/2011/07/27/nissan-seeks-your-input-on-official-leaf-wave/
    2. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/393271/july-27-2011/nissan-s–leaf-wave–deadline(fast forward one minute to get past opening)
    3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shocker_%28hand_gesture%29

    George S. Bower: Are you proposing that Volt drivers use the shocker too??
    It is an EV after all.

    Plugged in, “tickled pink;” Gassed up, for the stink?

    :-O

    … maybe I should just change that to “no comment.”

    … where is Cap’n Jack? Seems like this ‘discussion’ would interest him …


  49. 49
    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (6:25 pm)

    George S. Bower: Does your company charge you??

    #36

    Well, it’s my company, so I guess you can say I’m paying for it, LOL. We don’t make a lot of money, but we do manage to winkle out a few perks from time to time. It really does help though. I just can’t quite make the round trip on one charge.


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    Noel Park

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (6:30 pm)

    Jackson: … where is Cap’n Jack? Seems like this ‘discussion’ would interest him …

    #48

    Yeah, really. I miss the boy. Come on Cap’n, surface.


  51. 51
    kdawg

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (7:30 pm)

    Loboc,

    i agree, we will see inductve charging & automation taking over for a lot of the plugging in, in the future. I don’t know what kind of time frame but I’d expect inductive first since the chargers are only 3.3kw and 6.6kw. As more BEVs appear and larger/faster chargers appear, i could see automation take over, simply for safety reasons. Maybe some kind of bussbar is exposed and the car extends electrodes…. but who knows, lots of options. Vision systems and servos keep getting cheaper, so robotics is indeed an option.
    ,


  52. 52
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (7:40 pm)

    Raymondjram: Every gasoline powered vehicle is “plugged in” with a filler pipe, dispensing a toxic and explosive fuel. Ask her if she would prefer a gasoline powered appliance

    Raymond

    I’ll use that one next time since I hate going to gas station also.

    ….and keep the inductive charging docker in the back pocket


  53. 53
    kdawg

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (7:43 pm)

    Jackson,

    or LPG. Remember the LPG Spark?


  54. 54
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (7:46 pm)

    Noel Park: #48

    Yeah, really.I miss the boy.Come on Cap’n, surface.

    Second that.
    I live around trailer trash too.
    Only we are talkin’ SINGLE WIDE.
    Now that’s bad.

    Come in Cap’n
    over

    Capn PS
    I’m just Razin you.

    GSB


  55. 55
    jeffhre

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (7:58 pm)

    This coupler is not exactly what I would call elegant. Kind of reminds me of these really. http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=15316

    uglyfish1.jpg


  56. 56
    George S. Bower

     

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    Aug 16th, 2011 (8:19 pm)

    kdawg:
    Jackson,

    or LPG.Remember the LPG Spark?

    Loboc,
    What about the Toyota Civic NG model.???


  57. 57
    James

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    Aug 17th, 2011 (2:11 am)

    Quick charging – the sooner a standard is decided upon the better. I agree that early adopters will feel a need to upgrade in a few years as the difference between an EV or PHEV being capable of a quick charge vs. one that cannot would be akin to a Prius or hybrid owner feeling he/she is using yesterday’s tech to use less gas when confronted with a Volt or PHEV. This is one factor I am taking into consideration in deciding to lease not buy. A Volt four years from now could contain a lot of necessary equipment needed to make EV driving much more efficient and user-friendly.

    The other technology I feel that’s highly needed to boost EV usage for mainstream consumers is inductive charging. It only makes sense to omit the plug entirely from the equation in parking garages, solar carports and home use. Progress is coming in leaps and bounds in this industry and I hope to see it implemented widely soon.

    RECHARGE! ,

    James


  58. 58
    Chris C.

     

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    Aug 17th, 2011 (11:09 am)

    George S. Bower: Are you proposing that Volt drivers use the shocker too??
    It is an EV after all.

    Of course!

    I love this idea. Can’t wait to see another EV on the road and try out the wave :)


  59. 59
    jeffhre

     

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    Aug 17th, 2011 (4:22 pm)

    James: I agree that early adopters will feel a need to upgrade in a few years as the difference between an EV or PHEV being capable of a quick charge vs. one that cannot would be akin to a Prius or hybrid owner feeling he/she is using yesterday’s tech to use less gas when confronted with a Volt or PHEV.

    Yes but not very strongly until lifetime charge cycles improve a bit on the higher density battery chemistries.