Given the money-consuming challenges, how do you build a subcompact, economical, yet high-performance and feature-packed car in America? If you are General Motors, you do it in a subcompact, economical, yet high-performance and feature-packed factory, of course.
More to the point, GM has decided to prove its Lake Orion, Mich. assembly plant can profitably build its 2012 Sonic subcompact in the U.S. As such, it will be the only subcompact currently built in this country, as no other automaker has shown it can and make (enough of) a buck.
It does not have electric propulsion, but we agreed with a GM-Volt reader who suggested the innovation shown by the recovering American car maker is enough to merit attention by anyone interested in GM’s progress and economical vehicles.
2012 Sonic hatchback
The Sonic will come with one of two Cruze engines stuffed into a platform about 500 pounds lighter, loosely based on the Opel Corsa, and delivering over 40 mpg.
Trimmer and smarter looking than the outgoing Aveo, the “world” car employs strategically placed design cues from motorcycles, and when available this fall, will start at $14,495 including a $760 destination charge.
Top-down cost cuts
In order to make the gambit feasible, the entire assembly plant had to be streamlined – with the goal being to not draw down quality in the process.
To mitigate what is normally the largest profit sapper, the factory uses fewer than the usual number of employees. And of these, the United Auto Workers union agreed to an out-sized proportion of 40 percent of “tier 2″ entry-level workers earning $14.50 per hour, with other “tier 1″ workers making about $28 per hour.
2012 Sonic Sedan.
This 50-percent pay slash is at least closer to the under $10 per hour a Mexican autoworker might make, far less than up-to $60 per hour a full-wage U.S. union member might collect, but the decision was not without controversy.
Because the U.A.W.’s President Bob King saw the value of GM’s efficient subcompact, he agreed to compromises that allowed the first car of its class to be built by GM in the U.S. since the Chevette about 40 years ago, unless you count also a brief period GM built re-badged Toyota Corollas as GEO Prizms.
“We are committed to the success of the company,” King said to the New York Times. “We had to talk about a business model that makes sense.”
To further whittle costs, the Lake Orion plant compresses floor space. Just as wages were halved, so was the size of the the assembly line. In another era the operation might have sprawled over a million square feet, but Lake Orion’s was minimized onto just 500,000 square feet.
And on this remaining space are clustered robots, such as those used for welding, to create a model of production efficiency, requiring less energy to run.
According to GM Spokesperson Christi Vazquez, there were several initiatives at the plant to improve efficiency and environmental impact, including using nearby landfill-sourced methane gas to provide 40 percent of the plant’s energy, and lighting system upgrades which save $430,000 per year while reducing the plant’s carbon footprint. Additionally, GM moved some suppliers into the plant which was enabled by shrinking the assembly footprint by 50 percent.
Hatchback interior.
To offset the low profits subcompacts typically make, Lake Orion will also build the higher-profit Buick Verano.
GM said these plans were put in motion in 2008, prior to the federal bailout, and settled between a bankrupt GM and union officials who made concessions needed to let it work.
“We wanted to prove we could do it,” said Diana D. Tremblay, GM’s head of global manufacturing.
Sedan interior. Note motorcycle-inspired tach and speedo.
Regarding the low wage deal, the Times reported the U.A.W. tried to persuade Ford to build its Fiesta in the U.S., but Ford went south to Mexico instead, paying workers there under $10 per hour.
Similarly, Honda does not build its Fit in the U.S., but imports it from other assembly plants, including those in China and Brazil.
2012 Sonic
Chevrolet said it will not have EPA economy numbers for its new Sonic, until closer to its fall release, but it is a car that makes sense.
The company says it found elegant solutions to cut production costs, including use of an ultra-thing rust proofing film under the paint.
“The rustproofing still meets or exceeds all of GM’s paint and rustproofing standards,” Vazquez said. “A new process allows us to reduce the amount without reducing the rustproofing performance.”
Further, both the Sonic and Verano will use a new eco paint that eliminates the need for a primer oven and increases quality and appearance due to waterborne base coats.
But Vazquez was reluctant to elaborate on more Sonic cost saving measures.
“For competitive reasons, we can’t outline any other changes,” she said while changing the topic toward the opposite direction. “We actually made several changes to the vehicle, such as offering alloy wheels as standard that were counter to cost-cutting measures to make sure our customers got a better experience.”
Note motorcycle-inspired tail lights and discrete rear passenger door handle in the black section behind the window.
Similarly, Vazquez noted that the Sonic is made with over 60-percent high-strength steel which, while more expensive, improves performance characteristics, including crash performance – a concern for smaller cars.
And more good news for buyers is that at eight inches shorter than GM’s next largest car, and despite being a relatively portly 2,800 pounds – a good 300 pounds more than other cars in its segment – the Sonic will not be boring.
Two engines lifted straight out of the heavier Cruze offset its mass, actually offering superior power-to-weight to the Cruze, let alone other subcompacts. Included will be three transmission options – a five-speed manual and six-speed automatic for the 1.8 liter, and a six-speed manual for the $700 extra 1.4-liter turbo.
Chevrolet rates the Flint, Michigan-built Ecotec 1.4-liter turbo at 138 horsepower – 18 more than Ford’s Fiesta – and says its 148 pound-feet of torque arrives at 1,850 rpm and extends to 4,900 rpm.
Engine highlights include:
• Low-mass hollow-frame cast iron block
• Dual overhead camshafts with variable valve timing
• Chain-driven cams
• Roller-finger camshaft followers
• Piston-cooling oil jets and integrated oil cooler
• Variable-flow oil pump
• Electronically controlled thermostat.
Smaller and less money than the Cruze, but with same engine.
Also available is a Korean-made, naturally aspirated Ecotec 1.8 liter with the same peak horsepower, but offering less grunt and requiring more revs.
Chevrolet estimates 138 horsepower at 6,300 rpm, and 125 pound-feet of torque at 3,800 rpm. A two-stage variable intake manifold is said to enable about 90 percent of peak torque from 2,400 rpm to 6,500 rpm.
Both cars ride on MacPherson struts, wheelbase and track are both about 1.5 inches broader than a Ford Fiesta’s, and with optional 17-inch wheels and sport tires available, Chevrolet promises “athletic” performance.
The Sonic Z-Spec accessory portfolio includes Color Out accent packages with contrasting-color exterior parts and graphics that express the car’s performance characteristics. .
“The all-new Chevrolet Sonic blends the practicality of a small car with the passion for driving that Chevrolet vehicles like the Corvette are known for,” said Chris Perry, vice president of Chevrolet marketing. “Its combination of great design, fun driving experience and the latest connectivity features create a serious competitor with a fun spirit.”
Other Sonic highlights include:
• Ride and handling tuned by Chevy Corvette engineers; standard electronic power steering and StabiliTrak electronic stability control with rollover sensing
• Sedan model offers segment-best trunk capacity that is greater than most compact cars; hatchback and sedan offer better rear-seat roominess than Ford Fiesta. With a rear seat that folds nearly flat, the Sonic hatchback has greater cargo capacity than Fiesta
• Connectivity includes OnStar with six months of Turn-by-Turn navigation. Available features include XM Satellite Radio, USB and Bluetooth functionality and MyChevrolet mobile application with OnStar MyLink vehicle connectivity
• Remote start, heated front seats and sunroof, all rarities in the segment
• Comprehensive safety features include 10 standard air bags, antilock brakes, electronic brake force distribution, brake assist and OnStar with Automatic Crash Response.
“Chevrolet is the only company building a small car in the United States,” said Perry. “We believe the Sonic will bring substance to the segment, with progressive styling, performance and value that will change perceptions of what a small car can be in America.”
Arriving this fall.
As for these assertions, Automobile magazine recently drove a pre-production 1.4-liter turbo Sonic on an autocross course at Indianapolis, along with a Ford Fiesta and Honda Fit for comparison.
Chevrolet attributed the Sonic’s extra weight to its bigger footprint and 10 airbags, among other things. But once its turbo spooled up, go-power was superior, as was turn-in response and steering precision compared to the Ford and Honda. Automobile gave higher marks for the Fiesta’s interior materials, and the Honda’s gearbox, however.
The Sonic’s tilt/telescopic steering wheel, good panel fit, and “adult-friendly back row” also impressed, and while reserving judgment for the production car, Automobile said the new Sonic is proof that a formidable and fun-to-drive subcompact can be built domestically.
Vazquez said GM has not yet released volume projections for the Sonic. A fully loaded model could price out to “slightly under $20,000,” and aside from the Honda Fit and Ford Fiesta, other competitors GM is mindful of include the Toyota Yaris and Hyundai Accent.
Chevrolet, New York Times, Automobile
This entry was posted on Monday, July 18th, 2011 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+14
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:38 am)Good for GM. “Made in the USA” will be an excellent sales promotion. GM can feature ads with all colors of Sonic by filling up 100% of the drive-in stalls at a SONIC®, America’s Drive-In® restaurant. There’s got to be a great tie-in with the fast food chain. “Drive-in and buy a Sonic today!”
While the Sonic isn’t a plug-in, the need for inexpensive four wheel transit is never out of style. High mpg and good performance at a low cost reminds me of my first car, a VW Beetle. The Sonic would have been a great alternative back then. GM has a winner with this American made car.
+6
Jul 18th, 2011 (8:09 am)The differences in the ways that the various OEM’s outfit their vehicles say a lot for their business models and business plans. This one is designed to attend to the compact high performance market with lots of electronics options, especially also for that market segment under, say, age 35 or thereabouts, and, is a real “cherry bomb”. (My coined term to mean a compact value-packed product, that is going to explode onto the market) and into the hands of performance demanding buyers.
This market segment, at the same time, want to be mindful to also maintain their low carbon footprint 99.99 percent of the (normal) driving time with the (near) 40 or so miles per gallon efficiencies.
+10
Jul 18th, 2011 (8:24 am)I give GM credit for sticking their neck out here and making this car in the U.S. The temptation to make it in Mexico or elsewhere had to be intense. Does anyone know the proposed American made content at this point? A vehicle can be “assembled” in the U.S. but still have a very low “U.S. made content” perentage. Conversely, it happens the other way as well where the majority of parts are made in U.S. and then shipped to a Mexiacan factory to be installed, (for example Chevrolet and GMC’s own 1500 series pick-ups assembled in Silao, Mexico).
If I had my preference, it would be simple….manufacture the entire vehicle in the U.S. at one factory. I’m talking engine, transmission, interior coponents, basically everything but the tires. Lease out factory floor space to sub-contractor component manufacturers, who make the parts as they are needed right their next to the assembly line. The benefit in all of this is you as a company have completely localized and internalized all of your manufacturing for a vehicle. And, the big win is that you save massive amounts in transporting of components. No more shipping an engine made in Ohio, and a transmission made in Indiana, and a dash made in Mexico, and a chassis made in Michigan, and a computer controller made in Korea, all to a plant in Michigan to be thrown together under one roof. The only things requiring transport to the factory are the tires, steel, and plastic raw materials needed to make the vehicles. Just a thought.
+9
Jul 18th, 2011 (8:36 am)I like to think in all things, green. While ‘Made in USA’ is great, anything that doesn’t require transportation across oceans is another plus for the planet (with all associated fuel spent on transportation). I hope GM can continue this ‘Made in USA’ with as many vehicles, and components, as possible.
+3
Jul 18th, 2011 (10:07 am)Schmeltz,
Would the UAW go for this? If you can buy parts cheaper than you can make them….
Also putting all of the eggs in 1 basket is not the GM way.
+6
Jul 18th, 2011 (10:52 am)Jeff, thanks for the report. Very good information. I hope it works out well for GM. We certainly need all the manufacturing we can get in this country. I would like to see more manufacturing come back to our shores. We really need to find ways to cut cost and make American manufacturing the best in the world. Both in lower cost and higher quality.
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:32 am)Very interesting article. Thanks for pulling all these detail together. The amazing decrease in hourly wage for those assembling these cars is, perhaps, the most interesting aspect of this story. It may be a protent of things to come for those involved in all sectors of manufacturing. The price of more jobs may well be significantly lower wages than a similar job offered in the past.
+3
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:35 am)It appears that the hatchback has a cut-line for a rear door, but there is only one door handle per side. If there are rear doors, how do they open out? As a Fit driver, the Sonic looks very good to me; but it would have to be a 5-door. Easy access is part of what makes the hatchback design so flexible.
+5
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:37 am)The economy is still swirling around the toilet bowl. If it does not flush completely in the next few months, 2012 could be a great year for Chevrolet!
Chevy VOLT, Cruze, Sonic, Equinox, Camaro ZL1 and Convertible, a great lineup of Silverado Trucks, and late in the year we get the All-New Corvette C7. [www.allnewcorvette.com]
Pass the apple pie please!
+4
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:45 am)#8
I agree. +1
I am thrilled that GM is doing this, but any car I buy in the future is going to be a hatchback, and no 3 door hatchbacks for me.
BTW, I did go back and look for the cut-line. Good eye! I’m cautiously optimistic now. Thanks.
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:51 am)#9
Oh you clever devils, LOL. +1
Do you have any specifics for us? Weight? Powertrain? Anything at all?
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:52 am)With the most recent advances made in house for the battery of the Volt, the amount of high strength steel in the chassis, and the domestic assembly, this is the perfect platform for the GM EV.
If a 16kwh battery today costs GM $10k (not retail replacement cost, mind you) and GM has, a while ago, said that the next gen battery will cost half that, then I can see that this car can easily sell below $30k at a profit.
At 2800 lbs with the ICE, switching it over to an EV shouldn’t change the weight much. 16 kwh can be bumped up to 24 kwh and have a decent realistic commuter range of about 60 miles.
It doesn’t look like the EV-1 nor the Volt but it can work.
I think it will take the third generation of production batteries to make EV’s viable replacements for anything ICE.
Will it upstage the Volt or be the perfect garage mate to it?
ps. the 3rd and 4th door handles have been there, just look at the blacked out section of those doors, sneaky huh!
Jul 18th, 2011 (12:04 pm)I have so far not found a picture of the Sonic hatchback with both side doors open, but this pic may answer my question:
You can clearly see door releases on the inside, on the far forward of the rear doors.
There is another clue in this picture of the sedan: what appears to be a small rear door release on the B-pillar (silver, at lower-right) which is only visible when the front door is open:
Pretty interesting, huh?
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (12:12 pm)Noel Park,
Nothing official. I was on vacation last week, but I recorded that new Speed Channel show: “The Car Show” with Adam Carolla. I finally got to watch it and they were speculating about whether it would be front engine or mid-engine, and if it would have a Supercharged V6 as the “base model” engine. (If so, then I would say that must be for CARB MPG requirements and to keep the initial price down.)
I can’t wait to drive it!
Jul 18th, 2011 (12:19 pm)I cannot help but wonder what MPG a car like this could get with some kind of e-assist?
I expect little cars are last on the list, after full-size cars like this:
(Buick Lacrosse with E-Assist, ava by the end of this year)
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (12:21 pm)Not my cup-o-tea, but, interesting that GM thinks they can build small cars here.
You would think that with all the robotics being used today that a car could be mostly assembled using a mechanical workforce. I notice that GM didn’t show us much of the Volt real production line, only their pre-production (which is mostly labor). Probably a lot of PI there.
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (12:30 pm)N Riley,
Thanks N Riley. I hope it works out too. Looks like a fairly neat car.
By the way, in Europe the Sonic – as it is called here – is being called the new Aveo.
Jackson,
Jackson, here is a Euro version with exterior rear door handle shown in unconventional location.
Note also the same door handles in the picture above on the U.S. version.
Jul 18th, 2011 (12:44 pm)A bit too ugly for my taste.
Jul 18th, 2011 (12:51 pm)Jackson,
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (1:12 pm)When I was at the Detroit Auto Show, it appeared to me that the Sonic was being marketed towards young drivers who wanted something cool but not a lot of money to spend. Maybe going after the Scion market. If you can get all the technological bells & whistles listed, that could give the Sonic an edge over the competition. Young folk love technology/connectivity.
Jul 18th, 2011 (1:36 pm)Jeff Cobb,
Oh. So what is that thing I thought was a release? It looks a bit strange for a latch-point.
Sorry Crew, I didn’t quite grasp what you meant.
kdawg,
I said open, not off!
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (2:07 pm)AKA there is no new news about the Volt, but people get pissed if we don’t post SOMETHING every day…
Jul 18th, 2011 (2:10 pm)Interesting. I wonder why Volt doesn’t have flush door handles like a Corvette. Probably a cost thing.
I don’t see GM messing with Corvette that much (mid-engine V-6??). The fanz would be sorely disappointed (maybe even angry) without their 600hp V-8.
If they do a new sports car, it should be different from Corvette and leave poor ‘Vette alone. Maybe even let the ‘Vette die a graceful death. See Lightning EV.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1023465_700hp-lightning-gt-ev-on-track-for-2010-launch
+7
Jul 18th, 2011 (2:24 pm)Sounds pretty cynical and your “AKA” is not true.
I meant what I said. A regular GM-Volt reader sent in the NY Times story, saying it sounded very interesting, and suggested I re-post it on this site. I agreed it was interesting enough to merit publishing.
You are correct in so far as GM is not opening up its R&D labs showing Gen 2 and Gen 3 development, but I have said that several times already too.
However, I passed up a couple EV and Volt related stories to post this.
It is pretty much a first in 40 years for the recovering automaker. Not even more financially healthy companies have shown the willingness to do what GM is doing here – in an age when U.S. manufacturing is on the decline.
That makes it newsworthy.
Jul 18th, 2011 (2:30 pm)I thought that 2012 production was starting today?
-8
Jul 18th, 2011 (2:46 pm)So there was new Volt news, but you chose to write about a different GM vehicle instead? That seems a little odd…
I know the site is GM-Volt.com, but I really only care about the last part: Volt. I could handle other EV and EREV news, since it was related to the Volt in shared technology, future impact, etc. But I just don’t see the connection between the Volt and regular gas Sonic car.
FYI, I’m not one of the people that gets pissed if there isn’t any news. You can’t control what information is released or what developments are made. I’d rather see nothing if there is nothing to report. That probably doesn’t help your business, but that’s how I feel…
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:04 pm)I love artists’ renderings that wouldn’t pass DOT standards. What, no side marker lights?
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:26 pm)It will take a lot longer than that, IMHO. Unless the infrastructure for truly fast charging is in place (as in instant), the only way most people will choose an EV is if gas is well over $5 a gallon.
+12
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:27 pm)montgoss,
That is fine, and I understand your position.
As it is, this was hardly “nothing to report.”
To give you better idea of what justified this article, keep in mind we post GM news in general, particularly financial and earnings reports. We also are mindful of economy and low emission vehicles.
Also, going back to Lyle, this site has posted what some might say are “off topic” reports (if the “topic” is supposed to be just Volt news).
He has written about the Focus EV, and Nissan LEAF, and other EV related stories that have nothing directly to do with the Volt.
This site, as you say is GM + Volt, and it does branch into nearby territory occasionally.
In this case, the Volt news I passed over was about compatibility with iPhones and not as impactful as the first subcompact car made on U.S. soil by GM in almost 40 years.
EV news was also stuff that could wait.
I went to school for Journalism, have worked up to being a managing editor for a daily metro. For this decision, I filtered what was most newsworthy in this case based on what I could get, and do think this is a good story, as do other readers.
If I had bigger Volt news, it surely would have been posted instead, but this Sonic story is about a car that will get well “north of” 40 mpg.
It could well be at 44 mpg or so, and almost knocking on the back door of Prius mpg. Plus it has potential to be a neat sports car, especially the turbo which could be tuned.
We have a lot of people here who want to see American manufacturing prosper, and Chevrolet/GM in particular prosper. So, this story fits there as well.
You might also like to know I spend a good amount of time on nights and weekends and never really get a lot of time off. It cost me to post this, and it is a pretty polished story.
If I was really just posting whatever as a page filler, it would have been 500 words, and not the result of e-mailed info over the weekend from Christi Vazquez and merging info culled from a few press releases, plus online and print pubs.
You may not be interested in the story, but I am trying to serve this site, and have corrected and added to a story that neither the NY Times nor Automobile covered as thoroughly.
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:37 pm)Without government intervention, ultimately, the price of any jobs is going to be either lower wages, or for those wages to be worth less. Welcome to globalization….
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:40 pm)Dammit, Jim! I’m a car salesman, not an engineer!
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:43 pm)#17
Oh yeah, I’ll be damned. I never would have seen them if you hadn’t pointed them out. What a relief! +1
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:50 pm)“including use of an ultra-thing rust proofing film under the paint”
Does the Volt use “ultra-thing” rust proofing as well?
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:51 pm)Unless battery swapping takes off.
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:53 pm)#14
I turned it on just in time to miss the C7 discussion, LOL. +1
Once on a Chevy forum i suggested a mid-engined configuration with the weight fought down to the irreducible minimum, and the turbo 2.2 Ecotec from the Cobalt SS – 260HP!!! The Cobalt SS was one of the true sleepers IMHO, and could put up race track lap times to embarass cars costing twice as much +. Faster around Willow than a Mitsu Evo or a Subie Sti, just for a start. Naturally, i got booed off the forum for making such a heretical suggestion, LMAO.
Zora Duntov was determined to build a mid-engined Corvette, as he totally understood chassis dynamics. He built some awesome running one-ofs parts binned out of existing driveline components, but he could never get the project past the bean counters.
Plus Corvette people are a lot like Porscheophiles in some ways. Every time they try to change the 911 from its archaic rear engined configuration, the s**t hits the fan bigtime.
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (3:54 pm)At what point do EVs become unnecessary? If you can get 100mpg? 1000mpg? Regardless, if you want to save money, and have a fuel efficient car, getting 40+ miles per gallon, cheaply, has to be a real contender. This car is going to be a lot cheaper than a Prius…And a lot more appealing for mass adoption.
Of course, the Volt has never been about saving money. At least in the first generation. But, at some point, an ICE $14,495 car that gets more than 40 miles a gallon will be a viable alternative to the newer cheaper second or third generation BEVs…
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:00 pm)#24
FWIW, I totally agree. +1
It’s all good and important for the Volt. The bottom line is, if GM is successful, the Volt will go from strength to strength. If GM disappears, so does the Volt. So thanks for this, especially the bit about the rear door handles. I feel much better.
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:01 pm)True. But that also requires a whole new infrastructure to be built…
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:03 pm)#30
Alas, too true IMHO.
-10
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:05 pm)(click to show comment)
+4
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:05 pm)LauraM,
Right. In talking to Lyle, my understanding was he saw even the Volt as a means to an end.
It offers higher efficiency, lower emissions and is a definite step toward American self-reliance.
The Sonic threatens to edge closer on those points in its own right.
Cars like this, the Cruze, and possibly also the 2014 diesel Cruze will be the interim volume leaders and putting money in GM’s account so it can have the discretion to go forward with Voltec and BEV development.
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:10 pm)#28
Which is going to happen, sooner rather than later IMHO.
FWIW, I just saw my second Leaf on the streets of SoCal Friday. As opposed to 3 other Volts in addition to mine. So, if the Leaf is really starting to outsell the Volt, they don’t appear to be coming to the alleged car culture capital of the world, LOL. So nyyyaaahhh to Carlos!
And the local dealer is advertising Package 2 Priii for $650 off sticker. “5 in stock”. I’m just sayin’……
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:12 pm)I seriously doubt that an owner of a vehicle would go for swapping out 1/3 the cost of their car every couple days. (Or every couple hours on a long trip.)
We may get to the point where electrolyte replacement or NG fuel cell is viable.
Who knows what technology the consumer will go for. It’s all up in the air right now with so many different (laboratory) ways of doing things.
I think that pure EV is viable right now for niche places. And by niche, I’m talking millions of them. In my neighborhood alone, there are thousands of folks (retired mostly) that never drive more than 10 miles at a time. Those kinds of users could easily deal with an EV. The Taurus/Impala crowd, so, they probably wouldn’t go for something smaller than a Malibu.
If you had inductive charging it’d be a no-brainer.
+9
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:20 pm)montgoss,
I’ve said what I have to say. You are now telling me you did not even read it, but read an opening remark and decided it was page filler?
Then even when I try to explain politely to you you still don’t follow. The point about my background was I made an editorial call on newsworthiness. This was a groundbreaking story for GM. Not a waste of time.
Thanks for your comments. I am at a loss to say anything else on this. Have a good day.
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:28 pm)The sedan looks like a mini Cruze Eco (especially if equipped with the same 1.4L turbo + manual 6 speed).
I’m curious to know what will be the final weight & power ratio, I guess the 2,800 lbs mentioned above is an estimation at this point, I have not seen any official numbers release yet ..
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:46 pm)I think you are looking at it backwards. At what point do ICE’s become unnecessary? The performance of an EV is better than that of an ICE. The only 2 things holding it back are range/chrage-time & battery cost. Once those hurdles are crossed, I don’t see anyone buying an ICE car, even if it got 100mpg.
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:50 pm)I was thinking more that the car owners would never actually own the batteries. It would also reduce the initial cost of an EV.
+4
Jul 18th, 2011 (4:54 pm)“Thanks for your comments. I am at a loss to say anything else on this. Have a good day.”
“But what about – ”
“I said GOOD DAY SIR!”
————–
I forget where that’s from, but Jeff’s response reminded me of it.
(I liked this article)
Jul 18th, 2011 (5:01 pm)And on a questionaire from Chevy long ago, asking what people thought the next gen Corvette should be, I wrote in “ceramic adiabatic mid-engine” with min weight, too, knowing full well that they wouldn’t choose anything that might so alienate their large group of current customers and fans. Classic mgmt problem–how to evolve without cannibalizing too much of current sales/customers? Seems like one way the auto industry tries to solve this is by creating whole new divisions–Saturn, Scion, Lexus, etc. as well as just a new vehicle. Harley-Davidson will have this problem, if they don’t already. I would hope that the move toward EVs will be very manageable–just offer a more and more battery-assisted version of the car until it’s all EV. And occasionally intro a vehicle that’s way ahead/a showcase. I’m still missing the Converj.
Jul 18th, 2011 (5:08 pm)Only if we don’t have yet another economic collapse. Gasoline prices rising depends on demand. And demand depends on potential consumer spending, which right now, isn’t looking too good.
That’s amazing. Especially when you consider that the Leaf is eligible for the HOV lane sticker. And the current Volt isn’t…
LOL. Unfortunately, as much as I would love to gloat–that’s not good news in terms of potential interest in fuel efficiency.
Jul 18th, 2011 (5:12 pm)I must have imagined all those other articles directly about Volt (and other EV) news. Since all those other people stopped checking the site when they didn’t see them…
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (5:15 pm)Maybe not. But that’s going to take a lot of time and investment. And in the meantime, a more fuel efficient ICE vehicle can make a lot of difference.
Jul 18th, 2011 (5:58 pm)One of the stand out features of the Volt is the 149HP electric drive. A main goal at GM should be to get 3 new models out featuring electric drive. A truck, a Cadillac, and a small car like the Sonic. I know it will cost R&D money today. But think of the eventual payoff. 300,000 cars on the road that people really enjoy driving. Word will spread about the NEW quiet way to drive.
Know what happens next?
300,000 people start thinking about range. “I wish this great vehicle had a little more battery range”.
It’s difficult to progress public mindset from 1.4L gas driven cars at $18k. To owning luxury electric cars at $40k.
True, EV buying by early adopters will complete this shift in time. This is a window of opportunity for GM to own the market. By 2017 there will be so many competitors offerings that GM will frankly seem like the old GM. With several 6 point something liter gasoline trucks and a few engine under glass Corvettes to sell. Maybe it’s time to grow some balls?
=D-Volt
-6
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:09 pm)Are you just a shill for GM then? Who cares if it’s “a groundbreaking story for GM”? I don’t recall an article when Ford launched the Fiesta. I’m sure Ford thought that was groundbreaking news too… Not that I actually accept this kind of story as groundbreaking either way.
Basically, Sonic != Volt. Volt > (Sonic * 100).
Gene Wilder in “Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory”
I assume this was supposed to be sarcastic or something, but it just doesn’t make any sense. Are you claiming you are one of “those other people”? Because obviously you aren’t. Or are you saying you share my opinion but still check the site?
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:22 pm)A car like sonic size with electric battery which give 100 miles on a charge … plus some bells & whistles from Volt …and priced around 20k plus …. An ideal commute car or for wify to do errands around town …
+3
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:28 pm)Jeff at #44,
Your outstanding depth in every sentence you publish here is often lost on too many people.
The same thing happens to me about every other month with a very extremely closed minded person, who can not grasp more than the first sentence of whatever anyone says.
The saying of “You can lead a horse to water….” is the one I modify a bit to say,
“If you **can’t** lead the horse to water, (PSSSSST!!! it isn’t a horse after all!!)
I have to say the same thing as you just did, “Have a good day” and leave.
But you have to stay here, and what is not a horse after all can stubbornly stay here too if there is not any increase in thoughtful respect for your consistent in-depth scholarship.
It’s just one of those realities of the internet decreasing the theta wave capacities of many minds. I am very glad to see your challenging responses to reading neglect and callousness.
(I’m also thankful that you let me post controversial statements in my attempts to get people thinking again, even though many may see them as too challenging, (as likely reflective in my awful vote counts). But I just want people to not let the internet search engines cause them to become decreasingly intellectually dynamic, which is what I see happening over the years in service bays, and that initial internet referencing is absolutely the wrong priority there.)
The very worst closed minds are the ones that require me to leave as I say, “Have a good day”. We have exactly the same frequency of this happening, btw. LOL
The only outward statement I allow myself to make (when it is the case that instead of it being a mule you can not lead to water, and it is the obvious behavior of a kicking jack ass lashing out,) is the term, “Unprofessional!” spoken to the person as I walk out the door.
Just about all of us deeply appreciate your scholarship. It is discomforting that more people do not realize that the reason for fewer jobs is that their “theta”" wave thinking (effort) has not been taking place sufficiently to learn the new skills that are woefully in need by many industries, including most all automotive industries. Your work on this site is crucial.
I am a bit spoiled in that all I need to do is block any further contact with disinterested parties.
(Also very easy to do, since I’ve only served 11 percent of the local shops in seven years.)
But at least I can be here to remind the readership of your extreme value to society.
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:39 pm)None of this matters if we can’t sell in other markets while our competition can sell in the US and pay NO import duties or US taxes.
Our American companies are the most innovative in the world .. we cannot cash in on innovation if the “Global” Market is rigged against us.
Try to buy this car in Japan… the price will NOT be anywhere near $14,495… after tariffs it will be more like $30,000…. but we will still be giving Nissan $7500 for each electric they sell here.. and we will still be letting them get away with not paying US taxes. Same thing goes for Germany Korea and just about every other country…
Nothing will change until we deal with UNFAIR TRADE… our government will NOT do anything because they hold so much of our debt… so it is up to Americans to fix this problem .. it matters.
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:43 pm)#44
Having read on further, I can only implore you to stick to your guns. +1 PDNFTT!
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:46 pm)#57
And our imperial military bases. We have military bases in each of the countries you mentioned, plus dozens of others around the world.
In his seminal book “The Sorrows of Empire”, Professor Chalmers Johnson says that we have “hollowed out our manufacturing base” by allowing those countries (most specifically Japan) totally unfettered access to our markets, while our access to theirs is restricted, as a quid pro quo for those basing rights. I believe it.
Unless we get our military-industrial complex under control, we are doomed to second or third world status IMHO.
Se also LauraM’s comment at #30.
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:51 pm)Very interesting comparison.
My only comment is that I believe MPGe should be used for the energy equivalent MPG — which I believe is more important than the cost equivalent MPG. However both are interesting.
+3
Jul 18th, 2011 (6:59 pm)I side with DP on this subject.
The founder of GM Volt dot com, Lyle Dennis, carried this forum for years. With posts ranging from new R&D power sources. To comments from car manufacturer CEO’s. To news of plant shut-downs, walk-outs, and sick outs. To safety testing of GM vehicles and vehicles from competitors. To posting local events and even holding essay contests for prizes.
Jeff Cobb is doing well to follow the lead of a very driven individual. As we all know, Lyle has the heart of a marathon runner. And has the will to truly make his dream come true.
Articles on the Prius and Sonic are part of the journey. The big splash from the Cruze is fading. And the edge-of-the-seat dependability question mark for the Volt is becoming a non-issue.
When the first mainstream EV truck is launched many of us hope it’s a GM product. Tesla states their Model X (truck) is in the works for 2013 release. Tesla also states they will offer short, middle, and long range battery options to accommodate the buyers budget.
EV development is going well. These vehicles have been in the garages of the public for 6 months now. They are wining major automotive awards. Oil prices stubbornly hover at $98 per barrel. With $96 considered to be “low priced”. $28 per barrel is low priced folks. $98 is rape.
=D-Volt
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (7:14 pm)What you are saying may very well be true in terms of “most people,” but as of today all the EVs available for sale in the USA have been sold, so we are still in a supply-limited market. Too many customers, not enough cars, so far.
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (7:18 pm)One of the main things it takes to require of oneself to think with very extremely long-term dedication as did Lyle and now Jeff, is that one profoundly cares about lots of things that relate to something deeply meaningful, like what GM is doing and has done.
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (7:24 pm)Well, you said that a lot of other people stopped checking the site because there isn’t any Volt news. Since I’ve read a lot of recent articles containing Volt news (and EV news in general), my guess is that I probably imagined them…
Admittedly, it’s not the in depth stuff that Lyle sometimes posted. But that’s more about GM than it is about Jeff. They shared a great deal leading up to gen1. But that’s it.
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (7:27 pm)I just realized if you rearrange the letters of “Sonic” you get “Scion”
(I think i’ve been playing too much Facebook Scrabble)
Jul 18th, 2011 (7:33 pm)The US got it industrial might from innovation and hard work not UNFAIR TRADE as is the case today with “emerging” nations… they are growing by cheating and huge tariffs on their competition… it has worked and put many Americans unfairly out of work… It started with the Japanese STEEL DUMPING which still is going on today… now we scramble to pay off debt and import unfair products because they are “cheaper”.
The last I heard poverty in the US is said to be $24,000 in America… $14.50 per hour is very close to that at just $29,000 .. for the first time in 100 years … since Henry Ford decided to pay his workers enough so that they can afford the cars they make… the workers at this factory and all the transplant factories … workers CANNOT afford to buy the cars they make.
I’ve know a lot of auto workers and never heard one that made anywhere near $60 per hour.. but I do know Kindergarten teachers in our area that make over $100 per hour. Yes they make $94,000 per year and are not allowed to work more than 3hrs45mins a day… they are on strike this year!
I’ve personally seen the lifetime IRS statement for a GM test driver who never made more than $28 dollars a hour .. and that was test driving every kind of car and at speeds up to 150mph.. very dangerous.. in fact one of the main reasons he retired was because he was test driving front end parts at 150mph when the parts failed .. he luckily came to a stop without flipping the car.
$25 per hour is $50,000 per year … to me that is a liveable wage… the low end of a livable wage.. you are not rich .. but you can buy a car and only a average car.
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (7:33 pm)Absolutely. And I expect GM to be able to sell at least 60,000 Volts a year pretty much indefinitely. Which, by the way, is very impressive for a $40,000 car.
My point was that at some point, if we’re looking for EREV to eventually go mainstream, a $15,000 car that gets 40mpg will be competitive for quite some time. And, if we’re interested in reducing oil use, the Sonic is relevant.
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (8:51 pm)Please explain what that 44 represents.
Prius delivers a combined estimate of 50. The upcoming smaller model, similar to Sonic, is anticipated to deliver around 55. Cruze ECO 1.4 auto currently 31.
Also, let’s not forget about emission rating.
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (8:56 pm)john1701a,
John, it is a pure guess, so please don’t think much of it. We will wait till the EPA says something definitive.
+4
Jul 18th, 2011 (9:57 pm)Jeff Cobb:
Don’t sweat the small stuff. You got a loyal readership here who appreciates your efforts. Don’t let the occassional snide remark throw you off of your “A” game either. I would like to encourage you to keep putting the pen to paper, (at least so to speak).
You had big shoes to fill here but I think most would agree you are doing just fine!
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (10:06 pm)GM is going forward with their plans to deliver more cars that people want at an “import price”. No wonder one of my HS classmates (from the 80s) has moved back from China to work as one of the GM hiring managers up in Detroit. This is a very nice model for 2012 and should do well.
+2
Jul 18th, 2011 (10:26 pm)I wouldn’t worry about vote counts too much.
But if it really matters to you, post earlier in the day. Earlier posts tend to get more votes. Probably because a lot of people don’t get all the way down to the bottom of a thread.
Trust me. There are people like that everywhere. The United States does not have a monopoly on stupidity. Unfortunately, many people, perhaps most people, are not capable of gaining the new skills required for the new economy. And if that means they have to settle for china like wages–that’s a problem. You can’t live in the US on $1 a day. And, huge income inequality is not good for social stability.
Jul 18th, 2011 (10:36 pm)Do you have an actual Volt production number for 2011? I believe we’re way under 10,000 at this time.
=D-Volt
+3
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:26 pm)Dan Petit,
Thanks Dan. You are always a gentleman, always have my respect, and nothing you ever post is improper as far as I can see.
I think many people probably agree, as usually you do get a fair amount of votes.
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:35 pm)Actually, if you look at the history, the new nation, (these united States) did pretty much any thing and every thing (at times) to get a toe hold in the world economy, and frankly just to survive. It’s tough to start from the back and survive as the scrawny new guy.
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:39 pm)That is an interesting idea. I’m afraid a lot of people envision if they don’t own something it would just create a nightmare of reliance on some one else. But from the other point of view, if one company blows it, switch to one that does a better job. Competition is good.
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:45 pm)Wow, I don’t feel like driving tonite
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:47 pm)Schmeltz,
Tomorrow’s story will be a B-to-B-plus, LOL (not quite A-game, at least I don’t think.).
Edit: I said a bunch more initially, but will just leave it at saying, thanks for your words of support.
+1
Jul 18th, 2011 (11:58 pm)That is very, very true.
Jul 19th, 2011 (12:20 am)I’m thinking closer to forty thousand. If you can wait interminably for it to pass customs, and be released from multiple emergency safety reviews, and if the dealer doesn’t finally just bow to the pressure of being blacklisted and finally give up saying, “I’m sorry the model and options you want are no longer domestically available.”
Edit: Oh yes almost forgot, if you are still waiting patiently for your car and the dealer still is too dense to get why he is being jerked around, he will then have to deal with a number of sudden business matters, like the local prefecture suddenly and mysteriously informing him that his business permits will not be renewed next year, due to numerous here to fore unmentioned “violations.”
Jul 19th, 2011 (12:24 am)No. I’m hoping that they use their full stated capacity in 2012 though. Which is where I got the number…
Jul 19th, 2011 (12:50 am)True. We refused to enforce European copyrights throughout the 19th century. The whole reason New York is a publishing center is because this is where all the ships from Europe first docked. And the first American publisher to get his hands on the latest European bestseller got the American “copyright”
+1
Jul 19th, 2011 (2:03 am)Hey Montgoss, I Personally, I loved the story because I’m a car nut turned environmentalist. I think many of the readers of this site are also car nuts. Apparently, you not a car nut and you just don’t get it. That’s OK because everyone is different. If you don’t come back to this site I will not shed one tear. Thank you Jeff Cobb for an excellent article.
Jul 19th, 2011 (2:05 am)Someone on the forum (EV GIRL) said she picked up VIN # 3738 two weeks ago. It’s a data point.
Jul 19th, 2011 (10:01 am)+1. I love my Volt. But I don’t believe in these so called halos. One great car doesn’t mean the rest of them are somehow better. If there’s something better offered by another company when my lease is up, I will get that car. If the best EREV/EV is being made by GM, then I’ll get that. It’s that simple.
True, I’m definitely not a car nut. I wouldn’t necessarily call myself an environmentalist either. I am a geek though. And the Volt is cool tech. The Sonic, not so much…
I love how anyone that doesn’t fall in line is automatically a troll. We can that an “ad hominem” attack. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind with that BS.
+1
Jul 19th, 2011 (11:26 am)Hurray! Too me, the cooperation of all parties involved to make this project possible and probably profitable; are what makes this article a breath of fresh air. Everyone involved from the UAW to the energy efficiency of the plant to cost cutting measures; without cutting quality to exceptional design I really like this Team-work approach a lot. I would rather see 40% $15 hr. than giving the jobs to other countries. Innovations like this can reverse the trend of losing jobs in other manufacturing as well. Now if only our government can cooperate and innovate to a solution as well.
Jul 19th, 2011 (12:20 pm)Nope.
Harley already has electric reverse on its trikes, a desired feature, so they already started the move toward EV integration. So long as they continue to give consumers what they ask for, such as the low end torque and smoothness of electric drive where/when most desired, Harley will stay relevant. Also, throttle activated loud pipes is easy and cheap to replicate on a full EV. Surely Ford offers that as a four wheel local runabout hybrid/EV sound option to placate the Federation of the Blind?