Mar 21

GM May Add Second Shift To Volt Production Adding 1,000 Jobs

 

With demand anticipated to skyrocket, General Motors is considering adding a second shift to its Detroit Hamtramck plant, a move which could add 1,000 jobs overall. The news was reported by the Detroit Free Press, and comes as gas prices continue to increase across the nation.

A GM spokesman refused to comment on the matter, but the move would help create economies of scale for the electric drive technology, allowing GM to cut the price of the second generation vehicle by an estimated $7,500. GM CEO Dan Akerson also wants to triple the company’s EV sales between 2012 and 2015 to 135,000 units.

General Motors is planning to build 10,000 Volts in 2011 and 45,000 in 2012. So far, the company is only on track to sell 3,600 in this calendar year. However, rising energy costs could see a sudden spike in demand for the Volt.

[Image Credit: Detroit Free Press]

This entry was posted on Monday, March 21st, 2011 at 1:54 pm and is filed under Engineering, Financial, General, PHEV, Production. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 78


  1. 1
    Noel Park

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (2:03 pm)

    “God send that it shall be true.”


  2. 2
    Noel Park

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (2:12 pm)

    I drove the Volt 350 miles over the weekend on a trip to Palm Springs. It did 47 miles on the battery and averaged 39.9 mpg on the “range extender” There was a fair amount of city driving in addition to the freeway trip back and forth. I ran out of patience on the way home and drove it 70-75 mph to keep up with the traffic in the carpool lane.

    I drove it several miles up the winding Highway 74 “Palms to Pines” and was very impressed with the road manners on the twisty road. It corners very flat, and the grip is quite acceptable considering the low rolling resistance tires. I was trying to baby the gas mileage and a few ICE cars caught up with me on the straight bits, but I left them for dead in the corners, LOL.

    I thought that the car did everything it was supposed to do, and I was frankly surprised by the level of the handling.


  3. 3
    ziv

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (2:13 pm)

    Yeehaa! That would be great if it happens. Can you imagine buying a Volt for $33,000 then getting a $7500 tax credit? A Volt for the price of a Prius III. Shaking my head at the wonder of it.
    OK, back to the real world. Wonder if GM is regretting sourcing their CVT to a Japanese firm now that they may be using the last of their in stock transmissions?


  4. 4
    Noel Park

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (2:16 pm)

    Jeff,

    I could really get interested in a report on the motorcycles. This is sort of an alternative transportation community, and there are several die hard electric bike fans here, not to mention us conventional bike fans, so I don’t think that it would be that far OT.

    Or maybe you could at least direct us to where your reports will be posted. Thanks in advance.


  5. 5
    Tom

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (2:47 pm)

    Is that 3600 because that is all they have built or only that many have been ordered ?
    Because if they were hear I still want one!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Tom


  6. 6
    Estero

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:02 pm)

    From the article:
    General Motors is planning to build 10,000 Volts in 2011 and 45,000 in 2012. So far, the company is only on track to sell 3,600 in this calendar year.

    It might help sales if the Volt were available for purchase in the entire U.S. and Canada. A report last January indicated “Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Maryland, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Virginia, and Washington in the third quarter 2011. Everyone else will follow-on before the end of the year.” What about Canada?


  7. 7
    Noel Park

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:03 pm)

    Tom: Is that 3600 because that is all they have built or only that many have been ordered ?
    Because if they were hear I still want one!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #5

    I think it’s because that’s all they have had the capacity or the willingness to build so far. The is a thread on the forum this morning from a guy who was overjoyed that his dealer sold him one which was an order cancellation, because the dealer had not been able to get an “allocation” for the one the guy had been trying to order.

    And there are plenty of people posting here who want Volts who are frustrated because Volts are only being sold in restricted markets at the moment.


  8. 8
    charlie h

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:07 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  9. 9
    Noel Park

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:09 pm)

    Estero: It might help sales if the Volt were available for purchase in the entire U.S. and Canada. The last report I saw indicated “Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Maryland, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Virginia, and Washington in the third quarter 2011. Everyone else will follow-on before the end of the year.”

    #6

    You beat me to it, LOL. And said it better too. +1

    A better way to say it might have been to say that they are on track to BUILD (as opposed to “sell”) 3600, if they continue at the rate they have been doing so far. But they always said that they were going to ramp up slowly. I think that they are building up slowly, and waiting for feedback from the field before they go full blast and risk building thousands of cars only to have some unexpected glitch cause a disaster.

    It’s probably not polite to say so, and most of us don’t want to think about it, but those of us with low serial number cars are clearly “beta testers” at some level, whether we like it or not.


  10. 10
    Estero

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:24 pm)

    Noel Park: It’s probably not polite to say so, and most of us don’t want to think about it, but those of us with low serial number cars are clearly “beta testers” at some level, whether we like it or not.

    It is probaby true, but best left unsaid.

    A national rollout of the Volt is a very big undertaking; ramping up production, training dealers, tweeking here and there, etc., etc., etc. GM is doing right by taking their time with the rollout even if it means slower front end sales. I would rather see them take their time and do it right than rush it and screw things up. It is like Rashiid Amul and a host of others have said time and again the past several years — get it right the first time!


  11. 11
    kdawg

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:33 pm)

    Noel Park: Or maybe you could at least direct us to where your reports will be posted. Thanks in advance.

    Its motorcycle.com


  12. 12
    Noel Park

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:36 pm)

    Estero: It is like Rashiid Amul and a host of others have said time and again the past several years — get it right the first time!

    #10

    Right! +1


  13. 13
    joe

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:37 pm)

    Noel Park,

    Great! Someone should send this info to Consumer Reports, because if it has GM marked on it, CR automatically think it’s crap.


  14. 14
    joe

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (3:40 pm)

    ziv,

    I’m retired from GM and I can tell you, GM always has a backup supplier…for many good reasons.


  15. 15
    Loboc

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (4:26 pm)

    Parts of Texas are starting to show some Volts on autotraderdotcom. 1G1RD6E43BU101659 is at Lynn Smith in DFW.

    If they built 1659 (or more) since November, they are on track to hit 3,600 in another couple months. With gas prices doing a yo-yo again, alternate fuels are starting to look real good. I think GM is having a very difficult time keeping up with demand.


  16. 16
    Noel Park

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (4:26 pm)

    joe: I’m retired from GM and I can tell you, GM always has a backup supplier…for many good reasons.

    #14

    Best news I’ve heard today. +1


  17. 17
    Noel Park

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (4:29 pm)

    Loboc: If they built 1659 (or more) since November, they are on track to hit 3,600 in another couple months. With gas prices doing a yo-yo again, alternate fuels are starting to look real good. I think GM is having a very difficult time keeping up with demand.

    #15

    I think so too. +1

    Come to think of it, mine is #1756, and it was built the week of 2/14. I’m pretty sure that they are over 2000 now. Somebody started a forum thread for people to post the highest VIN. I guess I had better go check it out – IF I can find it, LOL.

    Edit:

    Actually, the highest # showing there now is 2367, posted one day ago.


  18. 18
    Ted in Fort Myers

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (5:01 pm)

    I took a tour of the D’HAM Assembly plant and there are Volts all over the place. Many have been built and are in Quality Assurance at the Warren Tech Center. Worry not my friends for every 5th car comming off the line is a Chevrolet Volt. Mine is 1506 and was built the week of Feb 14th. I picked it up the same day I toured the plant Feb 28th.

    Take Care, TED


  19. 19
    Ted in Fort Myers

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (5:04 pm)

    Estero have you had a test drive?

    Take Care, TED


  20. 20
    EVO

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (6:28 pm)

    Noel Park: there are several die hard electric bike fans here

    Make that die hard maximum torque from 0 rpm launch, instantaneous resposiveness and liquid smooth, strong acceleration without any balking, pregnant pauses or lugging fan and I’m there. Oh, yeah, those are baked right into electric, aren’t they? Place the power pack low and center and all together you get superior handling, performance and fun, as you found out with your Volt in the twisties.


  21. 21
    Dan Petit

     

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (6:50 pm)

    Hi Jeff.

    Went over to motorcycle.com for a look.
    It’s really interesting how far the electric motorcycle has come in the last few years.

    It’s also probably a good thing to start out the available torque for initial product offerings to be
    fairly reserved for battery conservation.

    I really like the idea of a programmable battery management module.

    It sure would be a lot of fun to read your appraisal of the Zero.

    Industry standards are coming into all kinds of electric transportation, and, it’s really amazing to witness it all.

    Most of all, I really appreciate the lighter weights, between 200 to 300 or so pounds.

    (Maybe a new design could be a little less dirt-bike like.)


  22. 22
    Dave86

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (6:57 pm)

    Actually, everything we’re seeing from GM makes perfect sense to me. This is all speculation, but there are probably 2 processes taking place in parallel…

    FIRST… GM is building just 300 Volts a month to get the production process debugged. Autoworkers are providing feedback on how to better build the cars, QA (Quality Assurance) is checking the assembled cars for defects and resolving processes that cause the most common defects, and finally GM is working with suppliers to eliminate parts defects.

    SECOND… hiring 1000 workers over night isn’t going to happen. Workers need to be interviewed, background and reference checks done, and any necessary drug testing completed before being hired. Once hired, the workers will start out receiving training, not building cars. It could take a hand full of GM officials several months to hire and train 1000 workers.

    So, my guess is that we’ll probably see GM build about 300 Volts a month for several months. Then at the end of the year when the new workers are trained and manufacturing processes are debugged, production volumes can ramp up to over a 1000 cars per month.

    EXAMPLE: 300 Volts/month times 8 months plus 2000 Volts/month times 4 months = 10,400 Volts built in the first year.


  23. 23
    Kent

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (6:59 pm)

    My dealer informed me that this was the last week that GM was taking orders for the 2011 Volt. There would then be a two-week hiatus from accepting Volt orders and after that, GM would begin to accept orders for the 2012 Volt. Does anyone know of, or has, any information that contradicts what I’ve been told?


  24. 24
    Dan Petit

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (7:52 pm)

    Hey everyone,

    There is a new battery advancement described over in Science Daily that apparently holds promise for EV applications big time.

    Apparently, there is a new way to make a 3 dimensional set of nanostructured electrodes that closely mimics the charge/discharge performance of a capacitor without the capacitors drawbacks of limited energy density. The article describes a pretty cleaver way they perfected a very scalable process. Fast recharge capabilities are the advanced benefit without reducing service life of any chemistry.

    Today’s topic in Science Daily describes that this new nanostructured lattice framework method is a new way to amplify almost all battery chemistries.

    Load leveling for utilities would be another really strong application of this new way to greatly improve many, if not most, all known and very many future chemistries, as it regards the designs of the cathode and anode.


  25. 25
    gmtx2652

     

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (8:05 pm)

    RE: #7

    I’m in the other position of actually hoping the guy ahead of me takes his order (he’s number 1 at the dealer, I’m number 2). Curious about the 2012 improvements (if any), the later the better for my finances (at least while the Honda keeps running), and the possibility of getting a $7,500 rebate versus a tax credit. May qualify for a 240v charging station rebate too (if/when…).

    No cash deposit on the table, nor have I placed a firm order but MSRP if I bite.

    Definately going to take the dealer up on a test drive when the demo model arrives, and go from there.


  26. 26
    Tex-Arl

     

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (8:13 pm)

    Dave86,

    Dave86–Don’t know where 300 comes from. I figure they are building around VIN3000 now and have been at it for 3 or so months which is about a 1000 per month.

    A shift of a thousand would equate to 60 per hour/480 a shift/ 2400 a week. That is assuming NO OTHER VEHICLE is slated. Consider the Converge (sp) or other vehicles might be assigned.

    I do know a thousand people (rough) equates to 60 JPH (assemblers and skilled trades)


  27. 27
    Charlie H

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (8:13 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  28. 28
    Tex-Arl

     

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (8:19 pm)

    As to training a second shift–probably best way is to place a person on the job they will have working with the current assembler. That is two on the same job teaching the new person little pieces at a time with the current assembler withdrawing a little at a time. Couple of days should do it.


  29. 29
    Eco_Turbo

     

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (8:43 pm)

    Noel Park: But they always said that they were going to ramp up slowly

    So, they started out by driving by a store that sells batteries? :)


  30. 30
    Dave K.

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (9:02 pm)

    I spoke with a coworker yesterday. He is in his 20′s and just bought a new white Camaro. I mentioned that I recently bought a Chevy Volt. He thought the Volt was a $25k gasoline car. I mentioned the lithium ion battery and my current 600+ mpg. He replied, “Really?”.

    Keep cranking out those Volts!

    =D-Volt


  31. 31
    Roy H

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (9:34 pm)

    Wasn’t there the same headline a couple of weeks ago (or less) followed by a GM rep denying the truth of it? GM has been exceptionally open about the development of the Volt, but I think they are simply reining in, and want to keep more information private. This is good business to keep your competition guessing. I like to think that Chevrolet is planning big things for the Volt, but just does not want to announce what they are doing yet. Hamtramck as others have pointed out builds more than the Volt, so a second shift is highly unlikely to be just for the Volt. What this does tell us is that sales for Buick Lucerne, Cadillac DTS, and Volt are going up, and we know the Volt is a small percentage of the other brands. I think people are reading what they want to into a second shift and falsely assuming it is dedicated to the Volt.


  32. 32
    WVhybrid

     

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (10:59 pm)

    Kent:
    My dealer informed me that this was the last week that GM was taking orders for the 2011 Volt.There would then be a two-week hiatus from accepting Volt orders and after that, GM would begin to accept orders for the 2012 Volt.Does anyone know of, or has, any information that contradicts what I’ve been told?

    Kent, your dealer may have been talking about allocations, not orders. Cars are allocated when the order status moves from 1100 (production Order Placed at Dealership) to 2000 (Production Order Accepted by GM). When I picked up my Volt Saturday the salesman told me they had purchase agreements with all of their allocation for 2011, and were starting to write agreements for orders of the 2012 model year.

    See the FAQ by ChrisC in the forum for more details at:

    http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5110-Tracking-Your-Volt-Order&p=45524#post45524

    WVhybrid
    status = 6000 – Production Delivered To Customer


  33. 33
    Hodgintor

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    Mar 21st, 2011 (11:18 pm)

    I hope they get more on the road. Once someone test drives one, they will buy it. This is the best car I have ever owned. 5,100 miles on #535.


  34. 34
    Jeff Cobb

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:20 am)

    Noel Park:
    Jeff,

    I could really get interested in a report on the motorcycles.This is sort of an alternative transportation community, and there are several die hard electric bike fans here, not to mention us conventional bike fans, so I don’t think that it would be that far OT.

    Or maybe you could at least direct us to where your reports will be posted. Thanks in advance.

    Hi Noel,

    How about a report three times longer than anything on GM-Volt.com? This 3,000 word or so piece was written yesterday. It had to be this long because it’s an intro, five mini reviews, and a conclusion.

    http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2011-zero-electric-motorcycles-launch-90578.html

    Notice the immense response from the die hard traditional ICE fans. No feedback in the seven hours its been up.

    You can sign up, and post feedback there if you want. :)

    I also was given a personal tour of the factory, and I recorded interviews with half of their exec team, and spoke with the rest.

    Plan to have another 2000 wd piece on Zero the company, in light of the worldwide push for EVs next week.

    Jeff


  35. 35
    ziv

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (8:20 am)

    Joe, I always assumed that would be the case, but I keep hearing different GM sources saying they may run out of CVT’s (Reuss, I think) and then I see stuff like this…

    http://www.freep.com/article/20110322/BUSINESS01/103220349/1002/BUSINESS/GM-lay-off-workers-N-Y-engine-plant

    joe:
    ziv,

    I’m retired from GM and I can tell you, GM always has a backup supplier…for many good reasons.


  36. 36
    John

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (8:21 am)

    Good Morning Everyone!

    Let’s spread the gospel! Your mission, bring up the Volt to someone today, tell them how excited you are about it. And how good it is for our country.

    Let’s get off oil!


  37. 37
    RB

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (8:31 am)

    “General Motors is planning to build 10,000 Volts in 2011..”

    Some days it is 10,000, other days it is 25,000 for cy 2011. Seems cyclic.


  38. 38
    Schmeltz

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (8:42 am)

    Dan Petit: Today’s topic in Science Daily describes that this new nanostructured lattice framework method is a new way to amplify almost all battery chemistries.

    Hey Dan! Thanks for the article. That was a great read for anyone interested in quick-charging battery possibilities.

    Think about it, a 5 minute recharge for your EV, with no battery life degradation. As Noel Park often says…”from their lips to God’s ears”.

    Here’s the link for anyone else interested as well:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110320164225.htm


  39. 39
    tom w

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (9:31 am)

    GM has the luxury of going slow because they still don’t have any competition. Thats all they have to do is stay one step ahead of Nissan and the others. Ford will have their FOCUS by end of year, but that is an ICE car with a battery stuck in the back.

    But clearly competition is coming. In the mean time GM is smart to just stay one step ahead of the competition, they don’t need to be 2-3 steps ahead. They would use up their 200,000 full rebates all the sooner. This is more significant then you think. If GM was in all 50 states cranking out 5,000 cars a month, they would sell them, but what happens in a few years when GM doesn’t have the $7500 rebate but their competition does- Boom, huge drop in demand. They can’t get too far ahead of them because as usual the government does as much harm as good with the unintended consequences of how they do things. I’ve previously suggested improvements to their current EV credits, but unfortunately the credits help, but they also create dis-incentive to move quickly. The Rebates should be unlimited for number of cars but start phasing out by calendar dates in the future. That would give all the companies huge incentives to ramp up quickly.

    I would like to hear more about GEN 2, Cost, changes and when available. I’ve been waiting in Ohio so long, I might as well wait till Gen 2.

    Credits really should be unlimted for number of cars but something like
    2011-2012 $8000
    2013 $7000
    2014 $6000
    2015 $5000
    2016 $4000


  40. 40
    Montgoss

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (9:46 am)

    “So far, the company is only on track to sell 3,600 in this calendar year.”
    Uh, what? Maybe if they were available in more states, more people could buy them? Just a thought.
    I looked into buying from another state and it seemed like a big hassle. The dealership I contacted in Michigan back in December said they wouldn’t even get their 1 Volt until May/June of 2011. I hope they’re not trying to blame “the people” for not buying this car!


  41. 41
    EVO

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (10:12 am)

    Dan Petit,
    “(Maybe a new design could be a little less dirt-bike like.)”

    Zero X, dirt trail bike
    - full off road version
    - street kitted

    Zero MX, dirt motocross bike
    - full off road version
    - street version

    Zero XU, street urban crossover bike (dirt torque with street tires)

    Zero DS, dual sport street bike with on/off road tires

    Zero S, super motard with street tires

    Each of these is a quite different machine, with different riding stance, height, performance characteristics and terrain/riding style appropriateness.

    Other electric bikes that may be somewhat similar include Native, Brammo’s two street models or Quantya’s dirt model.

    If it’s electric sport or superbike street bikes you have in mind, for now you could look at Mavizen, Motoczysz, Mission R, eCRP, Swigz and many others. Top speeds on real world race courses around 160 mph.

    In yet another direction, for competent electric scooters, you have maxis like Vectrix or standard urban runabouts like Honda’s ev-neo (think electric version of the Cub, best selling powered vehicle ever), Suzuki e-Let’s, Yamaha’s ec-03 and more. There very many lower powered choices.

    Electric drag bikes? Killacycle and Orange County Choppers (OCC) have both built record breaking versions, faster than 8 second and 170 mph quarter mile.

    For every single electric bike and category I mentioned there are others I did not, some of them by mainstream OEMs.

    Really, the only under-represented electric motorcycle segment at the moment seems to be the large street and highway cruisers, probably due to the necessary power pack cost to combat weight and range issues.


  42. 42
    Richardson

     

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (10:38 am)

    I beleive that there is a lot of misconception out there. G.M. talks about building 10,000 units in 2011. There are reports of 300 per month built. Yet the VIN numbers indicate over 3000 so far in about 3 months. The media sales figures must mean cars actually delived to customers. There has to be a lot deliverd to dealers that stay there as demos and a lot somewhere else in the pipline.


  43. 43
    Tall Pete

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (10:39 am)

    Charlie H: They’re making one only every twenty minutes or so. How could they possibly be having trouble “keeping up with demand?”

    In other words, demand is much stronger than what GM was planning to build at this time so they will have to ramp up faster than they expected.


  44. 44
    tom w

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (10:46 am)

    Tall Pete,

    Pete:
    “demand is much stronger than what GM was planning to build at this time so they will have to ramp up faster than they expected”

    As I tried to explain in #39, GM can’t get too far ahead of the competition, because when they use up all their government credits, the competition will come along and undercut them with their $7500 credits, and GM will have to bite the bullet and take a loss till the competition catches up in their allotments.
    As i’ve tried to explain the way the credits are structured are very counter productive. $7500 credit is great, but GM can’t get too far ahead of competition.


  45. 45
    Sonoma Richard

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (11:01 am)

    The little dealer where I purchased our Volt (#324) said that he could sell 50 of them tomorrow if he had them.
    Also, the dealer said that GM will produce a Voltec Equinox in the next couple of years. I could use one of those.


  46. 46
    Tim Hart

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (11:01 am)

    A relatively slow increase in the production of Volts is good so that the quality can be monitored and improved as they go along. I don’t think GM will have much trouble staying up with demand until the price comes down by the 7500-10,000 they are hoping to achieve. I know a lot of us need that to happen before we can join the happy group of EV pioneers. But congrats to all those who are getting one now!


  47. 47
    tom w

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (11:12 am)

    tom w: Credits really should be unlimted for number of cars but something like
    2011-2012 $8000
    2013 $7000
    2014 $6000
    2015 $5000
    2016 $4000

    I periodically post the above every once in awhile the last couple years.

    I have no doubt that if the credits were like above. GM would be pumping out more than 10,000 volts a month right now and they would be available in all 50 states. It would be a rush to achieve economy of scale and take advantage of as many $8000 credits as possible.


  48. 48
    John

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (11:25 am)

    Dave K. You’re the current world leader in MPG according to my site, If I type anything near the name it sends my comment to moderation and it never see’s the light of day.


  49. 49
    Noel Park

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (11:34 am)

    Schmeltz: As Noel Park often says…”from their lips to God’s ears”.

    #38

    LOL!! True that. +1


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    Noel Park

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (11:37 am)

    Sonoma Richard: The little dealer where I purchased our Volt (#324) said that he could sell 50 of them tomorrow if he had them.

    #45

    There you go! +1


  51. 51
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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (11:39 am)

    tom w: Credits really should be unlimited for number of cars but something like
    2011-2012 $8000
    2013 $7000
    2014 $6000
    2015 $5000
    2016 $4000

    TomW, I agree with you completely. Capping the number for each manufacturer is a way to slow the process for the companies that are ahead (GM, Nissan and soon Ford). They need to tweak that asap if they are to turn oil addiction around.


  52. 52
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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (11:40 am)

    Jeeez, thanks for all the “+1s” guys. I’m not used to it. I’m blushing, LOL.


  53. 53
    kdawg

     

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:01 pm)

    Tall Pete: Capping the number for each manufacturer is a way to slow the process for the companies that are ahead

    Is it per manufacturer, or per model per manufacturer? Meaning if GM built a BEV, or EREV SUV, would they get $7500 off for 250,000 of that particular model, or is it across the board for all models? How would it work if it was a Buick or Cadillac, or is that still considired the same mfg? What if GM partners with someone else, like Bright Automotive on EREV Vans? Do they get all 250,000 discounts?


  54. 54
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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:06 pm)

    Jeff Cobb: You can sign up, and post feedback there if you want.

    #34

    I did, actually. Nice article. I have a Buell, so I can really relate to that connection. It clearly shows. I think that there is, or soon will be, enough of a niche for these things to make it a viable business model. Or at least I hope so.


  55. 55
    Jim I

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:10 pm)

    All I want to know is:

    Will there be a Volt for me from my local dealer in Youngstown, OH by Christmas, 2011?

    There are only 278 days left!!!!!!

    And I hope they add blue to the exterior color list…..

    :-)


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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:11 pm)

    EVO: Zero S, super motard with street tires

    #41

    Nice comment. Very informative. +1

    I see the “super motard” movement as very popular and attractive at the moment. I found that I could really relate to this bike. As I said above, I ride a Buell and the Buell styling/engineering cues really resonate with me. These guys are going in a good direction IMHO. As I have reported before, I also have an old kick start Sporty, and have figured that 2 bikes is enough for me. But this does represent a fascinating new direction. If I can ever digest the impact of the Volt purchase, who knows?


  57. 57
    kdawg

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:34 pm)

    Regarding electric motorcycles, if I was going to drop the cash, this is what i’d buy

    http://brammo.com/store/empulse10/

    “The all new, 100 mph / 160 km/h Brammo Empulse electric motorcycle is available in three models. The 6.0, 8.0 and 10.0. All three models are capable of 100+mph / 160 km/h”

    I’d get the one w/the 100 mile range.


  58. 58
    Schmeltz

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:48 pm)

    Noel Park: Jeeez, thanks for all the “+1s” guys. I’m not used to it. I’m blushing, LOL.

    Congratulations Noel, Your’e the king of the thread today! :)


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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:54 pm)

    kdawg: Regarding electric motorcycles, if I was going to drop the cash, this is what i’d buy

    #57

    Oh yeah! +1


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    Noel Park

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (12:56 pm)

    Schmeltz: Congratulations Noel, Your’e the king of the thread today!

    #58

    As I said, I’m blushing. Thanks. +1


  61. 61
    Truman

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (1:04 pm)

    So far, the company is only on track to sell 3,600 in this calendar year.

    Yes, they sold 321 in January 2011 and 281 in February 2011 – 602 in two months, so 3612 in twelve months.

    Of course, that doesn’t factor in that they only started producing these cars last December and they are still ramping up production and delivery to dealers, and that doesn’t factor in that the Volt is only for sale in California, Connecticut, Texas, New Jersey, New York, and Washington D.C. right now (but will be in sale in all 50 states by the end of 2011).

    Nor does it factor in GE’s announced plans to buy 12,000 Chevy Volts:
    http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/11/general-electric-to-buy-25000-electric-vehicles-%E2%80%93-including-12000-chevy-volts/

    But it does show how people love to do simple extrapolations from 2 or 3 data points, with little understanding of the underlying situation, as many comments on sites like USA Today attest:
    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/03/chevrolet-volt-gm-general-motors-double-production-1/1


  62. 62
    EVO

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (1:13 pm)

    kdawg: Regarding electric motorcycles, if I was going to drop the cash [ca $15,000], this is what i’d buy “The all new, 100 mph / 160 km/h Brammo Empulse electric motorcycle is available in three models. The 6.0, 8.0 and 10.0. All three models are capable of 100+mph / 160 km/h”I’d get the one w/the 100 mile range.

    Fair enough. If Brammo can sell 1,000 of those this year, they’ll start to catch up to Zero, who’s current models all cost less. You did say that price was a primary consideration for you in an earlier post, so interesting that you now ignore that.

    We consumers all have different criterea of price, performance and range that different manufacturer’s currently available makes and models meet in different combinations. We consumers also all want lower prices, more range and more performance simultaneously, which is the real challenge.


  63. 63
    Truman

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (2:05 pm)

    tom w:

    Credits really should be unlimted for number of cars but something like
    2011-2012 $8000
    2013 $7000
    2014 $6000
    2015 $5000
    2016 $4000

    Be glad that political conditions temporarily allowed even that $7500 tax credit for the first 200,000.

    Your plan would certainly help the market penetration and technical evolution of plug-in cars, but don’t forget that Congress is far from unanimous in hoping the Chevy Volt will be a success – a large contingent of Republicans (mainly Tea Partiers ?) is hoping the Volt will be a huge flop, that “Government Motors” will go bankrupt again, and that President Obama will look like a “socialist that incompetently meddled in business affairs” come 2012.

    I’ve read thousands of comments about the Chevy Volt on various blogs and news sites – trust me, a large group of “Americans” hate the Chevy Volt with a passion, and are already pronouncing it “dead” given the sales figures of 326 Volts in December 2010, 321 in January 2011 and 281 in February 2011. (Of course, some of them still have trouble with simple math/and/or dyslexia, and recount with glee that only 982 Chevy Volts have been sold so far…)

    More sophisticated Republicans realize the importance and potential of the Volt, and I’ve seen some perceptive articles and comments at the Wall St. Journal, for instance. But the fact remains, there is a large political division among Americans on their opinions of the Volt – hopefully this dissipates as the basic facts about the car become more widespread. Some of the “Government Motors” haters actually think the Volt stops after going 40 miles, and wonder why the Leaf can go 100 miles and still costs less.


  64. 64
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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (2:49 pm)

    Schmeltz: Dan Petit: Today’s topic in Science Daily describes that this new nanostructured lattice framework method is a new way to amplify almost all battery chemistries.Hey Dan! Thanks for the article. That was a great read for anyone interested in quick-charging battery possibilities.
    Think about it, a 5 minute recharge for your EV, with no battery life degradation. As Noel Park often says…”from their lips to God’s ears”.
    Here’s the link for anyone else interested as well:
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110320164225.htm

    Ut-oh, I better bail outta my EEStor investment, lol.

    Then put the proceeds into developing an electric car with a sub-1 second 0-60mph time and a pop-up rail gun James Bond style.

    And a transformer manufacturer, as that million volt-to-the-home line is gonna cause a lot of problems.


  65. 65
    tom w

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (3:26 pm)

    Truman: More sophisticated Republicans realize the importance and potential of the Volt, and I’ve seen some perceptive articles and comments at the Wall St. Journal, for instance. But the fact remains, there is a large political division among Americans on their opinions of the Volt – hopefully this dissipates as the basic facts about the car become more widespread. Some of the “Government Motors” haters actually think the Volt stops after going 40 miles, and wonder why the Leaf can go 100 miles and still costs less.

    Truman – I hate Democrats and Republicans, they are both responsible for ruining the country. They complement each other nicely in stupidity.

    I’m for things that make things better for everyone, not just special interests, whether they be unions or oil companies.

    Everyone benefits if we stop importing oil. That means we need to drill baby drill and also subsidize new technologies that will allow us to use domestic rather than imported energy. Its so simple. Instead of working together Republicans and Democrats block us from solving our common problems. If we had a 5-10 year plan to stop importing Oil, then we could bring most of our military home and the news would be a lot more boring to watch without constant middle east interventions.


  66. 66
    JP

     

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (3:27 pm)

    Truman Says – there is a large political division among Americans on their opinions of the Volt.

    Political opinions will not hamper the sale of the Volt. The 40k sticker price will make the Volt unaffordable to the mass public. If GM can get the Volt down to $33k before the rebate then they will have a wait list at the dealerships. And yes I will belly up to the table and put my $500 deposit down.


  67. 67
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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (3:43 pm)

    Truman: Volt is only for sale in California, Connecticut, Texas, New Jersey, New York, and Washington D.C. right now

    And Michigan


  68. 68
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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (3:46 pm)

    EVO: You did say that price was a primary consideration for you in an earlier post, so interesting that you now ignore that.

    I’m not ignoring it. That’s why I clarified my post with, if I was going to drop the cash; which I’m not. To get the 100 mile range out of the Zero I’d have to buy an extra battery, so the cost wouldn’t be much different besides.


  69. 69
    EVO

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (5:18 pm)

    kdawg,

    Again, fair enough. So, it boils down to personal preference within the primary factors I listed.

    Mine was for for the currently available (at the time I bought) biggest performance (torque feet (foot pounds divided by vehicle weight) in class) bang for the buck within the range that suits my daily driving characteristics, which led me to choose Zero. Your daily driving characteristics and preference for launch performance may differ from mine, as does what’s available on the market at any time, so your choice may differ from mine, based on our differing criterea and purchase timing. I’m perfectly fine with that.

    Which bike is better? It depends on your individual criterea and preferences. The more you know about your real behavior, personality and important to you vehicle specs, the better choice you will make for yourself. Just be aware that what you think may be important to you and what actually turns out to be important to you can be different things. I do think I get extra points for actually buying and using mine on a daily basis for years, so I might just know something about that. Also, keep in mind that Zero now has Buell influenced belt drive and styling, as you noted and admired – that sort of thing does matter as your ride ages.

    Vehicle manufactures take note – more options is better, especially price points, range and performance.

    This dialogue between us on Brammo v. Zero kind of turned into a Buell Blast v. Kawasaki Ninja 250 sort of comparo. Different bikes for different uses, but both very, very sweet.


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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (5:31 pm)

    EVO: Also, keep in mind that Zero now has Buell influenced belt drive and styling, as you noted and admired – that sort of thing does matter as your ride ages

    I did notice the belt drive on the new Zero’s. I’m glad they did that, as I notice the chain-smack noise on the Zero videos I watched/listened to. I also read about it on some reviews. My current bike has a shaft drive, which would also be silent, but I think shaft drive is not as efficient.


  71. 71
    Noel Park

     

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (5:32 pm)

    EVO: This dialogue between us on Brammo v. Zero kind of turned into a Buell Blast v. Kawasaki Ninja 250 sort of comparo. Different bikes for different uses, but both very, very sweet.

    #69

    True that! +1

    My bike is a 99 X1 Lightning. The Buell guys call those old bikes “tubers”, LOL. I like the look, the “Made In USA” factor and the seating position. It’s plenty fast enough for me And it’s unusual enough to turn a few heads. What more could you ask for?


  72. 72
    Sonoma Richard

     

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (5:36 pm)

    Heard that Google took delivery of 12 Volts recently. They are going to list all charging stations on Google Maps.


  73. 73
    Dan Petit

     

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (6:20 pm)

    EVO,

    Very interesting info, EVO.

    //…have a really touchy keyboard today, and the letters I type are jumping all over with any stray movement on this small keyboard lol.

    Good advice regarding use and purpose and options for electric motorcycles.

    Very impressive help you provided us today. Thanks Greatly!!


  74. 74
    Dan Petit

     

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (6:38 pm)

    T 1,

    It seems to me that EESTOR gave it a really good try, and, I’d think they really still might have something that may work with several other outside designs in conjunction with their own advancements.

    The really tough thing nowadays with invention, is that not only might you have a competing design, but it is also very risky in attempting to collaborate with outside firms whom may have a strongly complimentary advancement that may help your own advancement go forward.

    (I wish I was able to see that PBS biography of Thomas Edison. I read his biography fifty years ago in a book given me called “101 Inventions”. I was in the 5th grade, and there was an art class that let you do something artistic. I chose to draw freehand (not trace) the side profile of Thomas Edison. Several classmates said that it couldn’t be done because ‘that’s too hard’.
    But I was completely determined to do my best, as he was my hero.
    I got the nose drawn out of proportion at first, but had to draw it correctly several times on a separate piece of paper. It was getting very late, but I was compelled to finish it no matter what. We were told by the teacher to pack up our things to go home.
    All the other students’ artworks were already put up above the chalkboard, and there was one place left at the end for mine. I kept on working. The school bell rang, I kept on working. The nun who was the teacher (who *I* kept after school was out for another fifteen minutes) told me I was going to miss the bus, I kept on working. Of course I was the last one done. It was thirty minutes after the bus left.

    I left the finished portrait of Thomas Edison on the desk and walked home.

    The next morning, my portrait of Thomas Edison was placed at the beginning of the display.
    It was done on some orange construction paper. When it was time for the display to come down, I brought it home, but for some reason never saw it again. (Sigh.))


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    Truman

     

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    Mar 22nd, 2011 (8:25 pm)

    Truman: Volt is only for sale in California, Connecticut, Texas, New Jersey, New York, and Washington D.C. right now

    kdawg: And Michigan

    Quite right – I forgot it was Spring already.


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    Mar 23rd, 2011 (1:29 pm)

    Dan Petit,

    Nice story.

    I’m still guessing that is EEStor is a scam, but since they’re a private company, I suspect that no one here has a direct financial stake in their success/failure, so no biggie.


  77. 77
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    Mar 23rd, 2011 (2:59 pm)

    Noel Park: #69True that! +1My bike is a 99 X1 Lightning. The Buell guys call those old bikes “tubers”, LOL. I like the look, the “Made In USA” factor and the seating position. It’s plenty fast enough for me And it’s unusual enough to turn a few heads. What more could you ask for?

    You just described the new crop of electrics: “I like the look, the “Made In USA” factor and the seating position. It’s plenty fast enough for me And it’s unusual enough to turn a few heads. What more could you ask for?”

    Something new, quiet, smooth, easier and cheaper to operate?

    Ya know, the Mission R currently also uses old school side tubing if that’s the tipping point for you.

    http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/newsandupdates/motorcycle_news/122_1104_mission_r_electric_superbike/index.html


  78. 78
    Estero

     

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    Mar 23rd, 2011 (6:03 pm)

    Ted in Fort Myers,

    Not yet, but still hoping…