To make their appeal to people from countries where fuel prices exceed those in the U.S. by as much as 50-100-percent, both the Chevrolet Volt and its sister, the production-ready Opel Ampera, are experiencing time under the limelight at the Geneva Motorshow, Mar. 3-13.
The first Volts and Amperas are expected for European delivery on-target by the end of 2011.
The Vauxhall-badged version of the Ampera is also anticipated in the UK, and is slated for consumer delivery there in early 2012. Both it and a right-side-drive Volt will be made available.
Opel Ampera. (Photo courtesy of Opel).
Aside from obvious stylistic cues, the Ampera is nearly identical to the Volt, sharing its powertrain, dimensions, and overall design.
One functional difference that both the European Volt and Ampera feature is a “hold” mode that allows the driver to retain the battery’s charge by switching over to the 1.4 liter generator prior to the battery’s depletion. This could be useful for drivers who opt to save the EV mode for congested low speed areas, or perhaps even in densely populated areas where they wish to be sure to put out zero emissions.
While this innovation is novel, and praised by GM execs, not only will high European and UK fuel prices make it more costly to drive in gas-consuming mode, various iterations of the Volt/Ampera will themselves be commensurately more expensive, in large part because of a 20-percent Value Added Tax (VAT).
Opel, based in Germany, and the property of GM since 1929, is pegging the starting MSRP at about €42,900 (Euros, or in excess of $59,300 depending on exchange rate).
Opel Ampera interior. (Photo courtesy of Opel).
According to Cornelia Harodt, a European Chevrolet spokesperson, the Volt will start at €41,950.
“This will be a high spec car with leather interior and many premium equipment features,” Harodt said of the Euro Volt, “We will start sales in November 2011, on time to celebrate 100 years of Chevrolet.”
If you did not know, Chevrolet this year is celebrating its centennial. It was founded in 1911 by Swiss national, Louis Chevrolet.
Fittingly, the first Volts will be sold in Switzerland.
“Besides Switzerland we will sell in a number of European markets, but we have not announced other markets yet,” Harodt said, “We are following closely government discussions on incentives and taxation for environmentally friendly cars. Of course we are working very closely with our country organizations and the dealer network to evaluate the market opportunities accordingly.”
Vauxhall Ampera (Photo courtesy of Vauxhall).
When it becomes available, the UK’s Vauxhall version of the Ampera will reportedly cost about £28,995, (British Pounds, or about $47,300 depending on exchange rate). This price is lower than the Opel Ampera because it factors in a £5,000 government grant allocated to UK buyers.
Yes, instead of a tax credit as is the case in the U.S., in the UK, they are essentially getting a direct discount.
UK car pubs are already predicting UK buyers will account for a majority of the buyers for the first 15,000 European Amperas, which is the number GM Europe President Nick Reilly estimates will be built for the first 12 months.
Reilly has also told the European automotive press he does not foresee Volts stealing sales from Amperas, or vice versa, a sentiment echoed to GM-Volt.com by U.S. GM spokesman, Rob Peterson, who said each brand will appeal to different demographics.
“While they may be in Europe concurrently,” Peterson said of the Volt and Ampera, “they won’t necessarily compete directly against one another.”
Europe-wide, GM has already documented over 3,500 letters of intent for the EREV, and about 1,000 or so refundable deposits at €150 each.
Initially Amperas along with Volts such as this one driven by President Barack Obama with Teri Quiqley, manager for the Detroit-Hamtramck plant in the passenger seat, are coming from U.S. assembly lines. (Photo courtesy of GM).
The first Volts and Amperas will be made in the U.S. at the Detroit-Hamtramck plant, but plans for the not-too-distant future are to assemble at least the Ampera if not both in Europe.
A question remains whether the Opel’s sister Vauxhall version of the Ampera will be built in the UK.
That the Volt/Ampera should come to Europe is fitting in a number of ways. First off, it was designed with input by engineers from Saab and Opel. Secondly, it is hoped the economical EREV will be snapped up by people who must pay as high as $8.00 per gallon of gasoline, which is a price it has hit at least in Germany. And a third reason – as important as any – is it is hoped the Volt/Ampera will contribute to GM’s financial recovery.
While at least in the near term, GM is undoubtedly banking more heavily on other mass-appeal models such as the new Camaro convertible, Cruze hatchback, Aveo sedan, and others, it is doing all it can to continue a sales rebound in Europe that has been less successful than in the U.S.
Opel Ampera. (Photo courtesy of Opel).
The positive spin is that overall, Chevrolet reports 2010 saw its highest European market share in its history at 2.5 percent. Vauxhall reports this year that within the UK, it’s enjoying a “record breaking” 18.85-percent retail market share. In Europe overall, Opel and Vauxhall in 2009 shared around 6.4 percent of the market, and as of this week, Opel and Vauxhall report they are still growing, having increased 2010 market share in 18 out of 27 European countries.
The less-than-exciting news for GM fans is that in 2009, Europe as a whole reportedly bought 16-percent fewer cars, and last week GM disclosed that it lost money in Europe for the 11th year in a row.
Fortunately for GM, following its U.S. bailout, the company found itself with money to reinvest in its European subsidiaries, and saved Opel from a proposed sale of controlling interest in the company to Magna International of Canada.
In light of more successful restructuring in the U.S. and renewed profitability here, GM, while acknowledging serious challenges, is optimistic about European sales – not to mention those on the rise in India, Asia and China.
This entry was posted on Thursday, March 3rd, 2011 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (6:59 am)From post:
…Initially Amperas along with Volts such as this one driven by President Barack Obama with Teri Quiqley
So that’s who that guy was, driving around with our cherished Teri
I hope somebody convinces the EPA to let US customers have hold mode.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (7:39 am)Hold Mode, (saving some of the electric range for later in the same, greater-than-~30-mile daily-learned-mileage-distance, by using the engine firstly if necessarily at all), would be an excellent, if not mandatory, environmental option for “ozone action days” which occur on hot and stagnant/calm air days in the Summer. Also, as a way to retain some of the electric range for demonstrating to friends how superior electric drive is. It’s clear that this would be an effective option which I don/t think would be overly used, since the outstanding economics of using electricity, with its totally mystical silence, is always preferable to the harshness of internal combustion.
In any case, if the decision to allow it clears all the hurdles of policy process, then the option might just be down loaded through the OnStar or other method right across the board to all Volts.
+8
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:11 am)I have always liked the Ampera’s highly distinctive styling, front & rear! Opel’s Frank Weber* had quite a bit to do with the Volt/Ampera design during his extended time in Detroit, so it’s no surprise to see the European/German influence. And I own a new Opel Antera (“disguised as a Saturn VUE” and identical to it —both the latest VUEs and the Antera are virtual clones of BMW’s X5, which is a remarkable crossover). It would be nice to have an Ampera parked alongside my ‘Antera’ —but the Ampera’s cost in Europe plus the cost to ship it here— makes it prohibitive. Oh well.
*I’ve always suspected Frank Weber encouraged GM to incorporate the European-like upscale chassis, steering & suspension features that make a Volt/Ampera handle like an M3 BMW and as comfortable as a Rolls Royce!
+7
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:23 am)Edit update: For those of you who read this early, Chevrolet of Europe informs me that the Volt too has the “hold” mode. The article was amended to reflect this.
+12
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:27 am)If there is interest in buying the Ampera model of the Volt by people here in the USA, why doesn’t GM offer them here as well?
If they will have both of them for sale in Europe, why not in the USA? Sell the Ampera model through Buick….
And nasaman, if they will both be built in Detroit, there should not be the shipping costs either!
JMHO
Good story today!!!
Just get a Voltec model here in Ohio!!!!!!!!!!!!
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:34 am)I’ve heard plenty of times how much more Europeans pay for gasoline but what is there price for electricity? If it is equally high then that would dampen somewhat the perceived advantage they would have for buying such a Volt or any other electric or plug in.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:38 am)Interesting! Several here wrote posts suggesting the Volt also get the Hold mode when we first learned of it in the Ampera. I have to say I’m still skeptical because Chevrolet/US promotes only 3 modes (Normal, ECO & Mountain) and no US cities have congested center city areas like London’s, where there’s a substantial daily fee to drive an ICE car, but no fee for an EV —at least not yet.
+10
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:43 am)GREAT IDEA, Jim! I haven’t ordered a Volt yet in part because I really wanted an Ampera. I might look into the possibility of ordering an Ampera and picking it up at the DHAM factory. Any US Chevy dealer selling Volts should be able to service it.
BTW, I agree that today’s article is superb! Very professionally written and few if any spelling or grammar errors (sorry, Lyle!)
+3
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:44 am)RE: Volt charging cord theft/pranks. It’s not a good idea to run over/on top of the cord to hold it into place. What will happen is that the insulation will be cracked open, allowing water to get inside. Ground fault interruption may likely occur, and, it would be a safety hazard if the cord was wet and it was plugged into a non-GFCI duplex outlet. There just needs to be an optional locking mechanism for the door end, as well as the outlet end. Maybe someone could let us know if there is some sort of a small stand-alone battery run camera that can have a small mirror array inside it so as to photograph any movement in a 360 degree panorama around a Volt (placed on top of the dash). (This would also be a great thing for simple security in homes and offices). (The images don’t have to be taken “right side up” to be acquired). And, have a small sign on the inside of the charge door “Smile, your movements are on a live camera *OnStar-feed from the dash cam of my Volt”.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:47 am)Nice to see the writer post a comment. Gotta work on a gravatar ‘tho!
Good Stuff!
How many modes does the Volt have now?
Performance Mode
Mountain Mode
Hold Mode
Battery depletion Mode
The mode where the engine drives the wheels thru the 2 clutches (Prius Mode?)
I’m gonna need another display to keep track of what mode my Volt is in!
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:53 am)Electricity in Europe is reasonably-priced and a much smaller percentage of the cost of ‘petrol’ there than the comparable percentage of Whrs/Gals here. In fact, Germany is a world leader in solar and the German government heavily subsidizes solar systems in the interest of air quality, etc.
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:58 am)Great article, Volt News. Nicely done.
I remember discussing Hold Mode here a couple of years ago I think.
It really is a great idea for Europe and I think a good idea here as well.
Los Angeles and NYC are two cities I can think of here where slow moving traffic occurs regularly.
-10
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:21 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:41 am)What I recall is that “hold mode” was conceptually put forward for the first time (as far as we can know) as a request to GM, here on this site. I remember thinking that I could hit “hold” when I got on the expressway, saving battery power for lower-speed surface street traffic (at my exit), where it might go farther. Others had their own reasons, but we all thought it was a pretty neat idea. It’s a shame that GM saw fit to allow this feature only off our shores; but in the case of Europe, I understand why: There are zones in some of the old cities where the use of an engine is prohibited.
Theoretically, you could engage “mountain mode” before leaving home, and switch back to “normal” sometime later in your trip to get the extra buffer back as drivable miles. I’d love to see an owner here try this, just to see if it works in actual driving.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:42 am)Carlos,
Carlos–you need to add the 20% value added tax to the U.S. price. Another way to make our products too expensive.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:56 am)One of the reasons is mentioned in the article (VAT – 20% ). Also your shipping a car across the Atlantic so shipping, duty, etc.. are added into the price as well.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:57 am)From the interior picture, it looks like the Ampera still has the wide shifter?
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:57 am)(Get your neg votes ready …)
If the Volkswagen could survive it’s early association with a certain infamous German leader, perhaps there is also hope for the Volt.
+7
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:58 am)I like how the UK has the discount right at the dealer. We need to do this in the US and get rid of all the tax-nonsense.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:03 am)Les Stanford Chevy, Wow, I think you need to update your site!
“The Volt propulsion system is powered exclusively by electricity. When its battery runs out of charge, it uses a small amount of gas in its onboard generator to create more electricity. While hybrids and battery-only electrics will also help us reduce our dependence on petroleum, Volt is a solution that seems to have greater possibilities for the future.”
I think this was the original position but was changed before production. Check it out and let me know.
bernie
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:07 am)You are correct about the wear issue; but when one considers the cost of some of these ideas, I’d almost rather beef up the insulation over part of the wire and park on it anyway (tape, if nothing else). I hope that public charging stations will eventually include video surveillance of some kind.
A locking device for the car’s socket is a promising idea, if the socket structure is sturdy enough to resist tampering. There isn’t much which could be done, short of surveillance, to prevent malicious sabotage to the cable itself.
By the way, I’ve heard this morning that gas thieves are actually drilling into fuel tanks; so security isn’t an issue only for EVs.
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:11 am)Several owners have been doing this and have written about it in the forums. One of the main reasons they do this is to have charge to be able to do demos in EV operational mode.
The difference between this and Hold Mode is that if you are above the MM battery depletion set point when you engage MM, it will still use battery down to that point (~40-45% ?). If you are below the MM battery depletion set point when you engage MM, it will use the ICE to propel the vehicle and try to charge the battery up to the set point. If you have driven this way and then take it out of MM back to normal mode, you will have the battery at that set point, not “full charge.”
Unless you really understand what the controls are doing, the “remaining range” display is not very intuitive going in and out of MM, but it is correct. Putting the vehicle in MM when it is already below the set point results in really poor gas mileage compared to the 37mpg expectation.
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:18 am)Mountain mode is almost like Hold mode. When I drive my Volt#671 to my cousin’s house, about 50 miles south of me, I put the Volt in mountain mode while on the highway. When I get to his neighborhood, I switch over to normal mode and find the battery still has 13 miles worth of charge. Maybe all GM needs to do is give the driver the ability to increase the battery buffer from “default” 13 to 30 or Max. This would make Mountain mode very similar to Hold mode.
NPNS!
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:26 am)Gas thieves ? Is that the new trend now ? In what cities is this happening at the moment ?
+25
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:27 am)Regarding the “Hold Mode” in an American Volt… It’s a programming secret.
Using the Display Controls on the left side; “Select Knob”, “Select Button”, and “Config Button”… Enter the following combination quickly without pausing:
Select – Select – Config – Config – Scroll Left – Scroll Right – Config – Select.
Then drive to Starbuck’s and order a Venti Caramel Machiatto and get over it cuz their ain’t no “Hold Mode” on a 2011 VOLT.
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:27 am)The three solutions that owners are currently suggesting are:
1) Park on the cord with a towel covering it or putting foam pipe insulation around that section of cord.
2) Putting the whole 120V EVSE inside the Volt and using an adequate gauge extension cord to the outlet. In this solution the sections of the pipe insulation are place on the top of the window to close the gap.
3) Purchasing a ~3ft cable like those used for padlocking a bicycle, and locking the 120V EVSE to a nearby pole or some other fixed object. You can also put the cable around a wheel, lock the EVSE there, and use an extension cord to the outlet.
BTW, the installation of my Voltec 240V EVSE and dedicated 120V, 20A outlet was completed by the electrician and myself last night. Now just get the Volt here (due in ~3 weeks).
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:28 am)MichaelH,
Nelson,
Thanks for the detailed information, guys!
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:33 am)Why no ‘hold’ mode in the US? It would make more sense to use the ICE on the freeway and save EV mode for slow traffic.This is especially the case for people who live in the outer suburbs. They burn their first miles on open freeway and it’s only later they get into congestion.
Maybe the development on the first US models had to be frozen before the HOLD mode was perfected? Should be simple as a software update right? I’d be asking for it.
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:34 am)Nice article. I have to say that for me “Hold” mode is just one more option I don’t need to worry about. I’m not even sure I’d want it given that, as mentioned, Mountain Mode gives you a substitution.
It does, however, highlight how the different rules between the US and the EU and the UK has to drive car makers crazy. In the US you can’t have Hold Mode. In the UK and the EU you need it. Or take the pedestrian warning. In the US you HAVE to have it. In the UK you CAN’T have it. I understand why this happens and that it’s not going to change but yikes, what a mess.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:35 am)The report I heard was on an Atlanta news format station.
With gas prices so much higher in Europe, you’d think this would be more prevalent over there.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:37 am)theflew,
Tex-Arl,
theflew and Tex-Arl,
I made some calculations here are the results:
US Price 40280 $
Today’s Exch. Rate 0,71736
US Price in Euros 28896 €
VAT 20%
Europe Price 34674 €
Announced price 42900 €
Difference in Euros 8226 €
Difference in Dollars 11,474 €
Am I missing something ?
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:44 am)Drilling? Wow, talk about risky theft. One spark and kaboom!
NPNS!
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:47 am)The Euro Chevrolet Volt is quite different, so why does it have the same name? Given the hold feature, it can be called the Holden Volt. That oughta confuse the Aussies.
GM marketing has some major work to do on brand/make/model/version nomenclature, that’s for sure. It’s still hard to wrap your mind around that electric drive offers superior luxury (quiet, liquid smooth) AND superior performance (max torque from a standstill and instant responsiveness) SIMULTANEOUSLY, both of more as you scale up, which no ICE does. Duel-mode and eAssist? I woulda gone with Winchomatic and Luxstrong.
Good thing I’m not in marketing, huh?
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:01 am)Geneva Auto Show 2011
Ampera~D=
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:06 am)Too bad there’s no Pontiac division any more; the Ampera would have been a good fit, IMO. It’s hard to imagine this as a Buick, and Cadillac has already declared that current Voltec isn’t up to carrying that badge (Converj, anyone?). I expect Chevy would have to sell both side-by-side in the US, too.
There is a potential for Voltec to diverge; into separate models emphasizing range and emphasizing performance; perhaps the styling divergence could follow the tech in two directions.
+3
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:15 am)For those interested in checking out energy prices in the UK, here is a list of documents. The one at the top of the list is 88 pages of amazing detail. What confuses the issue is how choosing your supplier and the method of payment makes the results different. Spend a bit of time scanning it (especially page 18 and 19 for electric costs) and be happy you are in the US.
http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/publications/prices/prices.aspx
+3
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:15 am)I wonder why GM top brass feels the Chevrolet Volt won’t compete with the Ampera for sales. In the US, GM’s worst years happened when badge engineering was at its peak with them. Who can forget the Cadillac Cimmaron…excuse me, the Cimmaron by Cadillac…. which was a spiffed up Chevy Cavalier — or was it an upscale Pontiac Sunbird, take your pick.
In recent times which coincide with their resurgence, GM has tried to shed the image of redundancy by giving the brands that remain more individuality. Now when there are shared chassis among several brands, the styling cues are unique to the brand, much more so than in past years.
It appears GM has a two-pronged European strategy at work – on one hand, the resuscitation of Opel and Vauxhall; on the other hand laying the foundation for a global GM presence that could eventually push aside Open and Vauxhall in Europe if those companies/brands cannot break out of the doldrums.
If this is true, then the Volt/Ampera combined presence in the European market appears to be a test as to which strategy will prevail, at least at this point in time. The badge engineering between the two cars won’t fool anybody, and it will be very interesting to see how the european public reacts with their pocketbooks.
+5
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:21 am)#4
Nice post. It looks like we’re headed in the right direction. Thanks. +1
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:31 am)#7
Wait for it. It’s coming. Bill Ford was on NPR this AM talking about traffic congestion and parking being as big a problem as fuel consumption in the near future. It’s already been suggested for NY, right? The political time may not be ripe yet, but it will come for sure.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:31 am)Europe Announced Price 42900 Euros
(remove VAT) (42900*.8) 34320 Euros
Convert back to dollars 1/.71736 = 1.39
34320 * 1.39 = 47704 USD
US Price = 40280 (US Fully Loaded Price = 45,000+)
Europe Price in USD VAT removed = 47704 USD
Euro version comes standard with items that are options in the USA.
Fully Loaded US Model 45K
Standard Euro Model 47.7K
Price Difference – 2,700 USD
Shipping across the ocean – tariffs, export/impot fees, etc.
+5
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:50 am)#18
I agree with you more often than not, but this time you got it! Not funny IMHO. -1
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:53 am)#25
LOL. Thanks, I needed that! +1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:58 am)#34
Oh yeah!!! One of each please! +1
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:01 pm)I understand the reasoning to have HOLD mode in places like London, so you can save electric power only for city driving. I don’t see any benefit to having HOLD mode otherwise because the Volt has so much computer code available to run as efficiently as possible. To try and guess when you want to use CD mode only will surely end up being wasteful IMHO. Using MOUNTAIN mode other thann for its intended purpose is also wasteful. I wonder if these sales in Europe will happen at the same time a diesel version will be available?
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:07 pm)Why is there no hold mode for the Volt? What prevented this?
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:09 pm)I understand that we differ politically, so your -1′s OK. I agree with you more often than not on other issues, BTW.
As an aside, I also expect my initial +4 votes will reverse into negatives as the left coast wakes up.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:16 pm)Nick D,
Thanks Nick D, that explains the difference… still, I don’t believe that it will make it, unfortunatelly d:-( …
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:20 pm)At least in SC:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1056157_gas-prices-gone-crazy-thieves-steal-gas-by-drilling-into-tanks
Proving once again that it is no solution to “drill baby, drill.”
Equal time for #18?
+3
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:23 pm)The price of the cars will come down, the price of the fuel will go up. I’m not particularly worried, especially where gas prices are already very high. The only real danger is a worldwide financial crisis which shuts down everything first.
Recall also that many of the factors affecting automobile costs in Europe apply to alternative vehicles as well. Take a look at how much more any new car costs there, vs the same model here.
/Is your emoticon wearing a baseball cap?
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:35 pm)For that price I will never going to get one… for me it’s… unreachable… pity d:-( …
/Yes, why ?
+3
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:37 pm)#46
We can only hope, LOL. Friends can disagree and still remain friends.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:42 pm)#32
I believe that there have been many fatal accidents and serious fires in Nigeria in particular when gas/oil thieves have drilled into pipelines to steal same. Stupid crooks, I guess. or maybe desperate people do desperate things.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:48 pm)Latest idea: “a short piece of a cord protector like what you would use in an office situation when cords have to be run across the floor to a desk.”
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (12:51 pm)Actually “One spark and kaboom!” is the “solution” to this type of “drill baby, drill” activity.
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (1:05 pm)Whether Volt is or is not too expensive is a question that is being decided in the marketplace of real transactions. For the number of Volts made so far, the MSRP is too low rather than too high, as dealers continue to get Volts from gm and then mark them up by thousands of dollars before re-selling them to customers. If, as, when a larger number of Volts are made and on the market, perhaps a downward price adjustment will occur, and if so we will see that in market prices. Right now the need for that lower future price is just speculation.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (1:12 pm)I think it varies from country to country?
OT–But Germany formed the bulk of First Solar’s initial sales sales, when US consumers, in our infinite wisdom, were completely uninterested. And the other large market for solar power (Japan), is effectively closed to non-Japanese companies.
France gets over 75% of their electricity from nuclear power, which is relatively inexpensive. Denmark is the world leader in wind power. And they also get a lot of their energy from biomass and heat recycling. But their prices for electricity are the highest in Europe. (Except maybe Ireland.)
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (1:16 pm)Market differences give homegrown manufacturers an advantage. Which may mean the difference between keeping a manufacturing base, or losing it entirely. If we want to keep any manufacturing here, we need different consumer preferences, and regulations.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (1:20 pm)Electricity for many of the western European countries comes from nuclear power plants. I lived in Belgium where I believe 75% of their power was nuclear, I believe the number is about the same for France. So the transition to EVs will be much cleaner than here in the US, in terms of greenhouse gases, smog and just plain old dirty particulates.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (1:42 pm)I’m more interested in news of the Voltec vehicles being more available and affordable here in the US. It’s still a tough thing to justify economically
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (1:45 pm)Um, politics aside, I’m not sure bringing that particular leader into any current political discussion is helpful. Whatever any of our current politicians are doing, they’re not planning any mass murders.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (1:56 pm)If you aren’t going to consider possible future developments, don’t use the word “never.”
/’cause I never saw that one before.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:07 pm)What’s not helpful (especially where the Volt is concerned), is for current politicians to associate with and take credit for things that, strictly speaking, they had nothing whatever to do with. IMO, there will be a backlash against the current administration. This will have negative effects for Voltec because of the President’s current campaign of misinformation through association.
I can express an opinion, can’t I?
As for that particular German leader; there’s nothing like exaggeration to get a point across (but imagine the consternation if I had named him; admit it: Mr. H. is an instant hot-button label for the “turn off your brain and rant” switch).
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:08 pm)It certainly does, Laura. You piqued my interest, so I dug up a chart listing recent electric rates in US cents/kWh for recent years (2005-2010). The formatting (or lack of it) here makes the chart almost unreadable, but here are a few rates from the chart (in Wikipedia):
Belgium…….11.43 cents/kWh
Denmark…..42.89
Finland………6.95
France………19.25
Germany…..30.66
Ireland……..23.89
Italy…………37.23
Netherlands 34.70
Portugal……12.85
Spain………..5.55
So you can see that, yes, they’re all over the place between 5.55 & 42.89 cents/kWh. Which is not too different than the variations from state to state and between regions here in the US. But since petrol over most of Europe is roughly 2.5-3.0 times the retail of US prices, I would still estimate the ratio of electricity cost-to-petrol cost to be at least somewhat more favorable than it is here. And remember the average European home is MUCH smaller than the average US home and that they use much less air conditioning (the big kWh user) than we do in warm months.
Also, the EU culture is very different than here …and much more concerned about the environment than the US as a whole.
Bottom line: EVs will be much more appealing to EU citizens as a whole than to US citizens as a whole, IMHO.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:15 pm)#54
Tough on the victim’s car though, LOL. +1
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:15 pm)Oops, missed “For that price.” Sorry.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:21 pm)#56
Lots of interest in wind power in Germany as well. I saw a tour of a German wind turbine manufacturing plant on Discovery or some such a few months ago. Very sophisticated. Of course, they’ll all be made in China soon enough I suppose. Or, with reference to your #57 (also +1), maybe they actually have come kind of an industrial policy…………
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:23 pm)#58
I wonder where the fissionable material feedstock comes from? And where the waste goes? Not so clean in either place if history is any guide. Ask the Navajos.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:24 pm)#60
Thank you very much. +1
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:25 pm)Agreed. Science and Technology should never be political. Both parties used to believe in supporting basic research. Unfortunately, that’s changed, and it’s become a hot button issue. I don’t know when science became a matter of public debate. But it’s not good for anyone.
Of course, you can express an opinion. I just feel that the tone of political debate in this country, in general, has become too extreme, and too bitter in this country. It gets in the way of needed consensus and compromise. And basically, effective governance. Also, it divides us at a time when everyone desperately needs to work together to find solutions to our many problems.
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:34 pm)I found an image of the Ampera in Silver Ice metallic. Very Cool…!!!
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (2:38 pm)A “hold” mode to save your Volt’s electric capacity for other than the initial day’s driving sounds like a great idea. I brought this up here several months ago; so how about it to be my main reason to wait for a 2012 U.S. Volt if GM will add this in the next model. Some sort of a switch should do it. No big deal!
BIG BTRY
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (3:03 pm)Agreed. The cost benefit analysis is much more favorable in the EU, as a whole, than it is in the US. Although I would imagine it differs from country to country…Irish citizens may be less interested than say, the French.
As far as European citizens being more concerned about the environment–I suspect that’s more about path dependency more than anything else. Human nature is pretty consistent, IMHO. And very few people are willing to actually change their lives for the overall long-term greater good. Especially when the greater good, in question, isn’t an immediate make or break situation, like, say, a world war. But when you realize that your way of life is more environmentally sustainable, it becomes very easy to start judging other people.
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (3:27 pm)#69
+1 for that too. You’re on a roll today!
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (3:30 pm)#63
Which reminds me, where is our old friend Jean-Charles Jacquemin now that we need him?
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (3:44 pm)Unfortunately, the congestion pricing scheme died a very quick and public death in our city legislature. And I doubt it will be revived anytime soon. The general opinion seems to be that it would benefit the wealthy who would be able to drive freely through the uncongested streets of Manhattan at the cost of the poor beleaguered commuter. And there is some truth to that.However, it would have improved our air quality, and brought in some much needed revenue.
And if it can’t pass in New York City, somehow I don’t see it passing in the rest of the country…
+6
Mar 3rd, 2011 (3:49 pm)ABSOLUTELY! Perhaps the most important comment posted here in months, OT or not!
Mar 3rd, 2011 (4:00 pm)Hey CorvetteGuy —do you think there’s any chance I could persuade GM to let me order an Ampera (at a Volt-comparable price, hopefully) while they’re still being assembled only at DHAM and pick it up either at DHAM or at a US dealer to avoid the round-trip overseas shipping costs?
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (4:03 pm)Thank you! I’ve noticed we agree on a lot.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (5:02 pm)Affects Volt production?
http://www.freep.com/article/20110303/NEWS05/110303029/0/NEWS04/GM-shifts-shortened-OT-rescheduled-after-Howell-dashboard-supplier-fire?odyssey=nav%7Chead
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (5:39 pm)=======================================
The problem as I see it is that most people are aware of the problems, but they don’t want to be inconvenienced or have to shoulder any of the burden to solve them……………..
And until we can fix that, we are going nowhere.
Example: Our federal government is over 14 trillion dollars in debt. Our leaders can’t even agree on cuts that total only 60 billion! Everyone wants tax cuts, but no one wants any programs curtailed or phased out completely.
Quite simply, you can’t have it both ways.
Have we all lost our common sense???
We are probably going to have to raise taxes and cut spending across the board. Anything else is just wishful thinking. But try to get elected, or re-elected on that platform………
And then there is Michael Moore’s Comments:
http://patriotpost.us/perspective/2011/03/03/michael-moore-on-the-wealth-of-others/
And Donald Trump’s response:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/50593.html
Another day in paradise………….
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (5:45 pm)I think it has more to do with general public education and some government interference. And perhaps to some extent a difference in national psyche…
For a simplistic portrayal:
For decades, the UK government encouraged people to save energy, with national programmes to subsidise home insulation etc. as well as adverts on national television. And they further encouraged people to save by imposing high taxes on fuel… I don’t get the impression that there has been anything on the same scale for the former in the US, and there certainly hasn’t been anything substantive on the latter.
In general, the green movement has been much more prominent in Europe than it has in the US. On the other hand, there seems to be a more general sense of entitlement in the US than in Europe…
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (6:46 pm)If anybody can… You can. Maybe Lyle has a contact at the factory to call.
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (6:48 pm)I like that black and red interior, with what looks like a piano black console. I hope the door graphics are optional, though. I like my neutral leather interior in mine having no graphics like that.
As far as hold mode, I think there might be an issue with qualifying the Volt as an EV for the federal rebate, if you’re just able to push a button and run the gas engine instead.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (6:53 pm)Maybe in L.A. ?
Mar 3rd, 2011 (6:54 pm)One other thing I just noticed, based on the photo the parts of the Ampera’s taillight design in the hatch actually light up with LEDs! Kind of disappointing on our Volts that the hatch “taillights” are faux.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (7:01 pm)#75
I hear you, but it will come back sooner or later. Nothing happens in our beloved country until the crisis strikes, total gridlock in this case. In SoCal they keep trying to implement transponders to allow folks to drive solo in the carpool lanes for a fee. Opponents call them “Lexus Lanes”, LOL.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (7:06 pm)#84
LOL. Just about as much chance as NYC. See #86. +1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (7:09 pm)#78
Well not everything, LOL. Chalmers Johnson for a start. Still, whether we agree or not, you are clearly a smart, well educated, independent thinker. We’re lucky to have you here.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:01 pm)Que dice?
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:17 pm)Thanks to US regulators, no?
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:17 pm)(I’ve attempted to post this about 3 times; the first time, the site just refreshed (minus comment), and nothing else happened. The second two times, I was erroneously told “Duplicate comment detected: Looks like you’ve already said that.” Volt News please take note)
(Dashboard supplier destroyed by fire). The article mentions a number of models and makes which could be affected:
Chevrolet Traverse
GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave
GM, Chrysler, Ford, Nissan and Mazda
Jeep Liberty
Ford Taurus
Chevrolet Tahoe
Suburban
Cruze
Silverado
Impala
Buick Lucerne
Cadillac DTS
GMC Sierra and Yukon
… and yes, the Volt.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:20 pm)I think in Europe they can still teach a value system in the schools. Sinks in, to a few students.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:26 pm)Dave K.,
Now that’s an idea, turn Volt over to a beautiful woma.., I mean Saab.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:28 pm)But then again, it’s not as hard to avoid typos when you’re not trying to shoehorn your blog entries in between brain surgeries!
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:32 pm)“It has been said that there is nothing more uncommon than common sense.”
Thomas Chalmers, 1835
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:34 pm)It’s good to think.
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:38 pm)True, they have been content to limit themselves to mass wealth-transfer!!
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:38 pm)Is that one of the Fords that don’t have an EREV?
Mar 3rd, 2011 (8:44 pm)The problem is that the spending they want to cut seems to comprise mostly our “seed corn.” Basic research. Infrastructure. That sort of thing. Meanwhile it won’t actually do anything about our deficit. To matter in terms of our deficit, you have to go to one (and probably all) of the political no go areas. Like social secure, defense, taxes, and most importantly, medicare. Cutting sewage maintenance funds instead will only hurt us in the long run.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:00 pm)The EU countries were set up differently. Basically, most European cities were built long before anyone even came up with the concept of an automobile. And historically, most European countries were net importers of oil, not exporters, so they didn’t have an oil industry lobby. So their cities are much denser, residences are smaller (and more energy efficient), and public transportation is a viable option. Their infrastructure wasn’t set up around cheap gasoline. Or cheap energy.
Also, in many European countries, once a government is elected, it has the power to make a lot of decisions without consulting the opposition. So they can do things like put a tax on plastic bags. And on fuel.
By the way, a sense of entitlement is most certainly not limited to Americans.
+2
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:00 pm)“No go” indeed. If the body politic fails to do what is necessary soon, the situation will reach a breaking strain: In the ensuing chaos, the political system in the United States will most likely become a casualty; including those who practice within it. This short-sighted Washington Country Club is actually acting against it’s own interests (or, should I say, inacting?). They are eroding the very basis underlying their own seats of power.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:02 pm)I don’t know if that’s a good idea or a bad idea. However, it plays out, I just want the Volt to get the same benefits the Prius did. Probably a futile wish..
+4
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:10 pm)WOW …we’ve made it to over 100 posts again today, 2nd day in row that’s happened in less than 24 hrs after a lead topic was posted since the ownership change, Volt News! Congrats, it says volumes!
+5
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:19 pm)….and we did it today without the “help” of a slew of trolls stirring things up !
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:22 pm)I’d love to see how today’s posts fit into their analysis metrics.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:26 pm)I’d love to know if anyone at GM still reads it. I mean, an actual word from someone at GM. This is the primary metric I’m interested in.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:37 pm)LOL. True. Re: Chalmers Johnson, I decided to try his latest book again. I read a book called “The Betrayal of American Prosperty”, which I really really enjoyed, and in the endnotes, the author thanked Chalmers Johnson.
Well, I got up to the point where he blamed the United States for not letting the Japanese set up their own government after WWII, and basically destroying their society. At which point, I was seriously tempted to throw the book across the store. But I was in public and refrained. I peaked at it again, only to discover that he thinks our reason for going into Iraq was to plunder their archeological sites. Which, by the way, is absurd on so many levels. It’s not like anything taken now would be exempt from the 1970 Unesco convention…
That said, we do agree on a lot of important things. Like buying American. Infrastructure spending. The environment. And, most importantly, the Volt.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:41 pm)Do you really think that the public wants them to address those areas?
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:43 pm)For a while there, I thought maybe people had given up after all the non-posts. I’m glad I was wrong…Congrats Volt News! You’re doing a great job!
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:43 pm)Bronco7TX has been assigned VIN #2018. Over 2000 officially now.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (9:56 pm)These points are fine, but they seem orthogonal to the issue…
I didn’t say it was.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:02 pm)You (and many other readers of this site) may not like this, but there is growing evidence that the answer is “Yes” … for at least part of the public. Yes, I am talking about the Tea Party.
According to the Left, they’re racist devils; to the Right, extremists to stay distanced from. The simple fact is that there is no other group in the US closer to We The People, at this moment, than that which this grass-roots movement represents. Consider as evidence the consistent bi-partisan dismissal:
The number of Americans who have tired of the madness-as-usual is ever increasing. The Washington Country Club, used to gaming the weaknesses of the American Citizen to maintain power, are seemingly mindless of the vicious cycle that they and the nation are locked into. For them, the Tea Party threatens “Party Over;” and they’d far rather dance to the tune of power than recognize the growing light of dawn.
For the majority of the public, the answer to your question is “No,” but majorities have changed before. For what it’s worth, I do not hold out a lot of hope for America’s political and financial redemption (there is very little time left); but I haven’t abandoned it either.
+1
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:13 pm)Let me clarify. Path dependence means that once a country starts going down a certain road, it’s extremely hard to change course. Europe is set up differently. It was always set up differently. Old cities are more efficient. Which means low gas is not a necessity. Once pubic transit is an option for everyone it’s a lot easier to raise fuel taxes. Also, they’re used to VATs. And Industrial policy.
As a result, since they are already more environmentally efficient, they can claim to care more. Even thought they’re basically living the way they want to live. Given their means. Just like everyone else does. It’s not about culture. It’s that the society they live in is set up more efficiently.
People in Europe are not more likely than Americans to buy a Volt for altruistic reasons. They’re more likely to buy them because it makes more financial sense for individual Europeans. Human nature is the same everywhere. Every culture has altruists. And every culture has people who feel entitled.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:17 pm)mmalc,
‘Orthogonal’ means mutually independent, non-redundant, non-overlapping, or irrelevant. I assume that you did not choose this word for it’s Geometric connotations. Why couldn’t you just say “irrelevant?” Perhaps you think that the more obfuscating the word, the less reasoned your response has to be.
I disagree with your assessment. In fact, I think that Laura’s points have prodigious preponderances of non-tangential corroborating influences.
Or prophylaxis.
Or something like that.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:19 pm)I really and truly hope that you’re right. I’d like to believe that the tea party is about actually taking responsibility. Although that doesn’t seem to be popular among any group that I’ve ever heard of. Seriously, it would be a first in human history.
Just out of curiosity, how does the tea party feel about the fact that Americans pay five times the amount for the exact same (medical) drugs as Europeans? Even though our tax dollars paid for the bulk of the research? Because, to me, that’s the ultimate in corporate give aways. But, as far as I can tell, the right seems to think of it as the free market at work.
Time left for what?
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:22 pm)For peacefully resolving our spiraling, culture-threatening debt; before it causes the utter collapse of the nation. No, America is not immune to economic collapse and default. We won’t like it. Not a bit.
I’m not aware that this specific issue has ever been discussed by the Tea Party. It sounds a little like passengers worrying about the color of the airplane while engines are falling off in flight.
Mar 3rd, 2011 (10:46 pm)I absolutely agree that America is not immune to economic collapse. And, no, we won’t like the consequences. No one will. If China thinks they’ve decoupled from us–they’ve got a huge wake-up call coming.
But the root cause of our debt culture is our trade deficit. By definition a trade deficit occurs when a country consumes (and “invests”) more than it produces. By debt do you also include private debt? Because I would argue that that’s just as serious a problem as public debt.
But I suspect we have more time than you think. Unfortunately. Because the longer this drags out, the worse it will be in the long run, IMHO. There are no easy ways to resolve the problem, IMHO. Unless trade surplus countries agree to import more or export less. And I don’t see that happening.
But that’s the type of hidden subsidy that’s rendering our economy uncompetitive. It inflates the cost of health care, which makes American labor relatively more expensive without making us correspondingly better off. It also increases our trade deficit. And represents a huge transfer of wealth from the US to other countries. (The majority of the profits go overseas.)
Mar 3rd, 2011 (11:10 pm)Thanks! Working hard. I still have no real insider contacts which is part of what’s needed to get consistent, I think.
Plus, still much to learn.
Hope tomorrow’s piece is OK. Will take some of the weekend off; back Monday.
-2
Mar 4th, 2011 (12:07 am)Demographically they’re old white conservative Protestant male Republicans, over represented in the South, with family incomes under $100,000. The biggest freeloaders around, there is no way they are going to voluntarily give up the free ride they’re getting from Medicare or Social Security. No doubt they’ll tell you they’ve “paid for” these benefits, though of course that is a complete joke. More like buy one get four free.
Mar 4th, 2011 (12:25 am)Regarding inside contacts at GM, I know Lyle Dennis would be happy to give his email addresses and phone numbers to key GM people. Call him on the weekend at home and tell Phil Toney (‘nasaman’ here) sent you. If you don’t have his phone number at home, send me a PM (private message) via the forum here for it (I’m ‘nasaman’ there too). Or just click ‘nasaman’ on my post here & you’ll find my 866# there right away —call me anytime.
Suggestion for a weekend post…. Lyle sometimes posted for Saturday at 12:01AM or later Friday midnite so the post would show Saturday’s date. It gave him a little time off & no one objected.
Mar 4th, 2011 (12:32 am)nasaman,
I’ve talked to him. Thank you. I did speak with Rob Peterson, (and got a brief quote) but haven’t met him yet. We might meet pretty soon. After tomorrow morning, probably won’t be able to post till Monday.
Am lining up sources and joining industry groups, but don’t have a reliable news-generating pipeline yet.
Mar 4th, 2011 (12:37 am)If you haven’t already, look into Google Alerts. It’s free and automatically searches the entire Google database 24hrs/day for key words (Chevrolet Volt, etc, etc, etc). Enjoy your weekend!
Mar 4th, 2011 (1:07 am)nasaman,
I have. Have some connections getting started, but need more. Thank you.
Mar 4th, 2011 (11:44 am)In more detail: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-on-the-tea-party-20100928
(Related: http://www.theonion.com/articles/embarrassed-republicans-admit-theyve-been-thinking,19248/ )
Mar 5th, 2011 (12:43 pm)Price Opel Ampera here in Denmark will be USD 110.000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!