Jan 25

Chevrolet Volt OnStar Vehicle Report

 


On of the benefits of driving the Volt is the free five year OnStar subscription.  For the Volt, OnStar is particularly feature-rich as it monitors the health and functioning of the car and its components, as well as keeping track of its ongoing energy consumption.

I started driving my consumer advisory board Volt on November 11, and had been waiting for my first full month report to post it here.  I received my first detailed  full month’s OnStar Vehicle Diagnostics report on January 10th reflecting the driving behavior of the preceding 30 days.  The information is displayed in the graphic above.

According to the report, for that period I drove the car 3443 miles. Of those, 2432 were on electricity and 1011 were on gas, indicating that 71% of my miles were electric.

Overall gas fuel economy for the month was 114 mpg, and it was estimated that by using electricity I saved 103 gallons of gas.

A particular interesting number the system determined was that my electrcity consumption was 19 kwh per 100 miles. The system also claimed by driving the Volt 2,014 pounds of CO2 production were avoided.

During the month of January, the weather was quite cold and I used comfort mode cabin setting with a temperature of 74 degrees plus one bar of heated seats. I also drove mostly at highway speeds and experienced typical EV driving ranges in the high 20s.

I charged to full every evening at 240-volts and opportunity charged during the day at 110-v anywhere from 6 to 8 hours. It is known the Volt will draw 12.9 kwh of grid energy to replete the 10.6 kwh of battery power used for the full EV driving range.

These data confirm the success of the Volt as a highly flexible vehicle without compromises that can displace substantial amounts of gasoline consumption, utilizing electricity efficiently and less expensively to do so.

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This entry was posted on Tuesday, January 25th, 2011 at 7:15 am and is filed under Efficiency, OnStar. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 118


  1. 1
    Loboc

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (7:25 am)

    Good data. I was anticipating greater detail more like daily or charge cycle data points.


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    GSP

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (7:25 am)

    Great report! I wonder if the 190 wh/mi is from the wall, or from the battery. Sounds like a from the battery value by the size of it.

    GSP


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    John

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (7:30 am)

    The 19 kWh/100mi is interesting if they give the formula for that. It cannot be purly the electricity used in EV mode since you do drive up to 70 mph and that is far more than .2 kWh/mile – it’s more like .35/mile. I would also have to think they do not factor in kWh losses during charging but are computing a different method.

    Did GM give the formula for the per mile items? My guess is it does not factor in the loss.

    (2432 / 35) * 10.4 = 722 kWh (~about 35 miles per charge during colder weather using battery without charging loss)
    722 / 3443 = .209 kwh/mile
    roughly 5 miles/kwh which is right about their 19kWh/100miles.

    Keep in mind that this calculation includes the miles driven on gasoline – just as the miles per gallon includes miles driven on electricity. I think they should be exclusively calculated to make it simpler on the user.

    With charging loss – comes out to roughly 25kWh/100miles.
    (2432 / 35) * 12.5 = 868 kWh (using charging loss estimate)
    868 / 3443 = .252 kwh/mile
    roughly 4 miles/kwh which then 25kWh/100mile.


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    Tim

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (7:47 am)

    What is the net $ savings that could be applied to the monthly lease cost of the vehicle?

    Thanks
    Tim


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    Roy H

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (7:53 am)

    I guess you can’t blame GM for posting the most impressive figures, but since the 114mpg includes electric miles and 19kwh/100 miles includes gas consumption, both figures are artificial. If you look at the 71% electric and apply that, 114 x 29% = 33mpg in CS mode, and 19 / 71% = 26.76kwh/100 miles in ev mode. Much more relevant numbers and easier to understand.


  6. 6
    Tagamet

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (7:59 am)

    Given all the years of TLC Lyle has invested in the Volt, it seems only fitting that he should get as many smiles/mile as possible. I’m picturing him clearly – a smile from ear to ear as he rockets around in that fabulous machine. Old Leadfoot Lyle must really be enjoying every Volt minute!
    The On*Star report didn’t mention “Miles driven by spouse”…. (g)

    Congrats and be well Lyle,
    Tagamet

    Make More Volts!


  7. 7
    Mark Z

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (8:06 am)

    Since this is the first report from OnStar, will next month show the Energy Efficiency for the month, lifetime or both? Hopefully monthly and lifetime statistics will be shown. An added plus could be a graph indicating the previous 12 months of electrical and fuel usage like the monthly electric and natural gas utility bills.

    For years the OnStar vehicle reports help the driver with vehicle conditions. With colder winter temperatures lowering tire pressure, the warning messages have reminded me to add air to tires for optimum safety.

    The list of things OnStar reports on is quite extensive. Open these OnStar links for more detail.

    http://www.onstar.com/web/portal/systemdetails

    http://www.onstar.com/web/portal/oillifeinfo

    http://www.onstar.com/web/portal/mileageinfo

    http://www.onstar.com/web/portal/tirepressureinfo

    http://www.onstar.com/web/portal/hfcinfo

    NFC is short for Hands Free Calling

    OnStar also has another website with news and forums to help with all your questions.

    http://onstarconnections.com/

    With five years of coverage included with every 2011 Volt, there is so much to enjoy and make driving safer and more economical.


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    ClarksonCote

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (8:07 am)

    Wow Lyle, your kWh/100 miles is much lower than mine… Mine registered in at 56kWh per 100 miles, though I drove many miles on a couple long trips that used the ICE. I wonder if they estimate kWh using the ICE as well?

    I’ll look forward to seeing what my energy consumption is next month, which will have a lot less ICE driving.

    join thE REVolution


  9. 9
    Dave G

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (8:16 am)

    71% electric, and that’s in January! I’m guessing it will be over 80% in the spring summer and fall.


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    Nelson

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (8:24 am)

    I only have one question. Is the gas used while “ENGINE RUNNING DUE TO TEMPERATURE” message appears, included in the “Gas Miles” ? I’d like to see stats on how much gas is used “DUE TO TEMPERATURE”. Should be an easy software update.
    #671

    NPNS!


  11. 11
    Dave K.

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (8:40 am)

    Opportunity rechage is key. Although I was able to qualify the Volt for the “alternative transportation” vehicle credit at work. Which is $75 per month with validation of EV use at least 80% of the commutes. Administration are currently unwilling to intall more than the few random 120V outlets available in the parking garages.
    GM is producing a great electric vehicle. Customer feedback is very good with demand rising. Home charger installations are routine. Looks like the sticking point for the public is finding more pay-per and free recharge opportunity locations. Something tells me that these will appear when people holding City and State office purchase the new wave of EV.

    No Plug, No Sale & Never Enough Llama


  12. 12
    JDan

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (8:45 am)

    Wow 3,443 miles a month! That’s like 41,316 miles per year! So lets see if you roughly drive to/from work about 22 days a month average, then you either live about 78 miles away from work (~2hr commute each way during east cost drive times), or you changed jobs and are now a drug rep. :D

    OK, I also have to consider just driving as much as possible because you LOVE THE CAR!!!
    (you do see your family right?)

    We can see your enjoying it immensly. With numbers like that no wonder you purchased instead of leased. ;)


  13. 13
    Jason M. Hendler

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (9:49 am)

    Those are amazing statistics, and they will only get better in the spring!


  14. 14
    Schmeltz

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (9:57 am)

    Those numbers bring a smile to my face. Imagine a day when we can all say…

    “Only a measely 50 mpg?…Wow, what a gas hog!”

    The Volt is helping us get there! :)


  15. 15
    john1701a

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:01 am)

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  16. 16
    ClarksonCote

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:06 am)

    john1701a: 103 gallons saved? Compared to what?3,443 miles only takes 69 gallons to travel with a 50 MPG no-plug hybrid..  (Quote)  (Reply)

    A 50MPG no-plug hybrid in January at Lyle’s climate conditions does not exist.

    Their estimate is as follows: Estimated Gallons of Fuel Saved. Calculation: (miles driven during time period / EPA identified average combined MPG for compacts for 2009) – fuel used during time period. Details can be found at http://www.epa.gov/OMS/fetrends.htm and selecting Appendix F4.

    join thE REVolution


  17. 17
    BLIND GUY

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:09 am)

    Opportunity charging is very important for people who drive as many miles as you do. Lyle you are fortunate to have the ability to charge at work. It would be interesting to know what your average mpg would have been if you could not charge up except at home. Lyle, do you have plans to install 240v charging at work or if it would not be worth the investment for the amount you might benefit from and can you precondition your cabin or battery using the 120v method?


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    jeffhre

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:37 am)

    Lyle, thank you for the write-up. Does the OnStar report show how many gallons of gas were used during the month?

    Is it something like 30 gallons for 3443 miles?


  19. 19
    George S. Bower

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:46 am)

    John: The 19 kWh/100mi is interesting if they give the formula for that.It cannot be purly the electricity used in EV mode since you do drive up to 70 mph and that is far more than .2 kWh/mile – it’s more like .35/mile.I would also have to think they do not factor in kWh losses during charging but are computing a different method.Did GM give the formula for the per mile items?My guess is it does not factor in the loss.(2432 / 35) * 10.4 = 722 kWh(~about 35 miles per charge during colder weather using battery without charging loss)
    722 / 3443 = .209 kwh/mile
    roughly 5 miles/kwh which is right about their 19kWh/100miles.Keep in mind that this calculation includes the miles driven on gasoline – just as the miles per gallon includes miles driven on electricity.I think they should be exclusively calculated to make it simpler on the user.With charging loss – comes out to roughly 25kWh/100miles.
    (2432 / 35) * 12.5 = 868 kWh (using charging loss estimate)
    868 / 3443 = .252 kwh/mile
    roughly 4 miles/kwh which then 25kWh/100mile.    

    John,
    Good calcs.
    If we base the electric consumption at the wall just on EV miles driven instead of total miles, I get .356 kwh/mi=2.80 mi/kwh almost exactly the combined numbers the EPA reported (.360 kwh/mi = 2.77 mi/kwh)

    CS mode comes out at 33.5 MPG vs 37 MPG EPA


  20. 20
    evnow

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:58 am)

    John: Keep in mind that this calculation includes the miles driven on gasoline – just as the miles per gallon includes miles driven on electricity. I think they should be exclusively calculated to make it simpler on the user.

    Yes – the way they are doing it – both mpg & kwh/mile are inflated with each others help.


  21. 21
    john1701a

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:01 am)

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  22. 22
    Loboc

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:10 am)

    ClarksonCote: A 50MPG no-plug hybrid in January at Lyle’s climate conditions does not exist.

    As usual, the 114mpg average was totally ignored by j1701. :)

    Lyle’s CAB Volt used ~30 gallons for the distance travelled. Whereas, the fantasy 50mpg hybrid would use ~70 gallons for the same distance. Um.. this is less than half!

    j1701 constantly asks for data and when data is supplied it is questioned. sheesh.


  23. 23
    john1701a

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:24 am)

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  24. 24
    DonC

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:31 am)

    The gas saved seems to be gotten by dividing the miles driven in CD Mode by the MPG of the average car/vehicle. (1011/103 = 23.6 MPG whatever that represents). I doubt that’s the MPG Lyle has been getting with his Volt but he could clarify this.

    The CO2 avoided is simply gotten by multiplying the 103 gallons saved by the EPA estimate of 19.7 (or something don’t remember exactly) pounds of CO2 for every gallon of gasoline. If you wonder how you get such a large number of pounds of CO2 from gas keep in mind that the gas is essentially carbon chains so CO2 requires the addition of two heavier oxygen molecules.

    The kWh needed per 100 miles would have to be tank to wheels. FWIW the number is very good. Very very good. Borderline too good.

    The high number of miles per month is the worst case for the Volt and would preclude using an EV with a range similar to the Leaf or the upcoming EV version of the Focus, Fit, or RAV4.


  25. 25
    jeffhre

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:35 am)

    Loboc:
    As usual, the 114mpg average was totally ignored by j1701. Lyle’s CAB Volt used ~30 gallons for the distance travelled. Whereas, the fantasy 50mpg hybrid would use ~70 gallons for the same distance. Um.. this is less than half!j1701 constantly asks for data and when data is supplied it is questioned. sheesh.    

    Actually it would have used a little over 77 gallons in accordance with winter consumption rates. A plug makes a big difference. It’s what electric cars do – plug-in.

    Dave K.: Opportunity rechage is key. Although I was able to qualify the Volt for the “alternative transportation” vehicle credit at work. Which is $75 per month with validation of EV use at least 80% of the commutes. Administration are currently unwilling to intall more than the few random 120V outlets available in the parking garages.
    GM is producing a great electric vehicle. Customer feedback is very good with demand rising. Home charger installations are routine. Looks like the sticking point for the public is finding more pay-per and free recharge opportunity locations. Something tells me that these will appear when people holding City and State office purchase the new wave of EV.No Plug, No Sale & Never Enough Llama    

    They will proliferate irregardless. Do not attempt to resist the llama. Resistance is futile.


  26. 26
    CaptJackSparrow_3rdtry

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:39 am)

    evnow: Yes – the way they are doing it – both mpg & kwh/mile are inflated with each others help.

    Them is “VooDoo Miles” maaaaannnn!!!!

    Personally I don’t think any EV miles driven should be calculated in with liquid consumption. No way!
    When you are in CS mode you are in “Hybrid” mode. At any given time you are burning OPEC juice and also at any given time from 30mph and up the ICE can drive the wheels……but regardless, you’re burning OPEC juice. Also at any given time on hard acceleration you “Dip” into the batt pack for more ooooomph.

    Yall may not like it but that IS how the Volt works. Adding miles driven in OPEC consumption with “something else” that is not liquid/OPEC crap is meaningless. If I drove down a hill coasting for 10 miles (that would be the “something else”) then started using OPEC crap for the next 10 miles, does that calculate a true 20 mile run for MPG?

    /back to my Kahlua & coffee….. :-)


  27. 27
    DonC

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:40 am)

    evnow: Yes – the way they are doing it – both mpg & kwh/mile are inflated with each others help. 

    I missed this. Now I see why the kWh/100 mile number seemed to good to be true. It is. Good point. More like 37 kWh/100 miles. That makes is questionable if this is tank or wall to wheels. My wild guess is still tank but no way to tell.

    FWIW all the information may be there but you have to drill down to find it. Maybe Lyle could clarify this as well.


  28. 28
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:41 am)

    Ooops….
    Forgot to take off my 3rdtry….


  29. 29
    ClarksonCote

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:42 am)

    john1701a: You do realize that even at just 40 MPG, the total consumption would only be 86 gallons.Where does the 103 gallons come from?.  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Did you read my post? I stated exactly where their estimate came from.

    Also, Lyle used 30 gallons in a month to travel 3000+ miles. I’ll leave it to you to calculate GPY from that, though the true GPY number will be EVEN BETTER after a full year of use and statistics.

    join thE REVolution


  30. 30
    john1701a

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (11:57 am)

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    usbseawolf2000

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (12:00 pm)

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    jeffhre

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (12:11 pm)

    john1701a:
    GPY is the proper measure of consumption.It informs how many GALLONS were actually used.The fantasy is comparing against a guzzler, to “save” gas..    

    I’ve always liked gallons per month, agreed. Dave G convinced me on that one. So to answer that since we don’t yet have a year to review let’s take a look at consumption for Lyle’s month of driving. GPMonth.

    Avg mpg 23.6, EPA fleet;
    = 103 gallons

    Prius winter mpg (Per John 1701a, Dec.Jan.Feb.) 45.5;
    = ~77.3 gallons

    Consumer Advisory Board (CAB) Volt @ 33 mpg CS mode
    = ~30 gallons

    At only 33 mpg, the CAB Volt seems to have crushed, er, better than doubled John 1701a’s monthly gas saving total by using opportunity charging.

    There are many technologies of the past that truly represent major breakthroughs. Thank you John 1701a for allowing us a comparison of one of those breakthroughs. It’s good to review past technologies from time to time, if only to accurately view the progress being made.


  33. 33
    jeffhre

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (12:14 pm)

    usbseawolf2000: The main difference is, Volt needs to be plugged in and consume 654.2 kWh while Prius is cordless. Is the extra 4.1 gallons saving worth the 654.2 kWh electricity consumed?

    Is saving ~654 kWh worth enriching OPEC?


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    DonC

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (12:14 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow_3rdtry: When you are in CS mode you are in “Hybrid” mode. At any given time you are burning OPEC juice and also at any given time from 30mph and up the ICE can drive the wheels

    Definitely not in my mind. If what you principally care about is displacing oil then what matters is Total Miles/Gallons. KWh per 100 miles when in CD Mode or MPG when in CS Mode are interesting but not as important IMHO. YMMV. Which is not to say that this information shouldn’t be available if you want it.

    Then again I think MPGe is stupid since it doesn’t capture anything of importance to me. Again, YMMV.


  35. 35
    JohnK

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (12:26 pm)

    Well, I guess the trolls are back. Seems like it has been a while, or maybe I’ve been spending too much time in the forums (not a bad place for information).
    I guess these guys are needed to keep us on our toes.
    Hoping that my Volt arrives in 2-3 weeks.
    Soon it will be Michigan’s turn. :)


  36. 36
    DonC

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (12:27 pm)

    usbseawolf2000: The main difference is, Volt needs to be plugged in and consume 654.2 kWh while Prius is cordless. Is the extra 4.1 gallons saving worth the 654.2 kWh electricity consumed? 

    I never know if you’re just dense or intentionally obtuse. You can’t compare REAL numbers from what has been EXTREME winter conditions for on driver with EPA laboratory average numbers. Your precious Prius could be getting 30 MPG if Lyle was driving it for all you know.

    So what do we have. Well we have over 100 MPG. If what you care about is displacing oil, on average the Volt is to the Prius as the Prius is to a Hummer. If you’re OK with that and can’t figure out how to plug something into an electrical outlet stay with your Prius. But don’t claim this is rationally justified.


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    john1701a

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (12:35 pm)

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  38. 38
    John

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (1:05 pm)

    The one thing that is certain (whether troll or nobleman): The formula used by GM is not helpful. What I want to see is:

    CD Mode: kWh consumed, CD-mode miles driven, AVG miles/kWh in CD
    CS Mode: Gallons consumed, CS-mode miles driven, AVG miles/gallon in CS
    Possibly in CD mode, compute in charging loss as well. If we know 12.5 is used when charging a capacity of 10.4, factor that in.

    That’s really it. The formulas that OnStar uses are not helpful as un-knowing media, future buyers and even a Volt owner is mislead by the two numbers presented. Misleading at best and false advertising and possibly (legally?) a fraud number. 103 gals saved? I can see this is incorrect as well and can determine that is based on a mpg rating of under 25 for comparison – must be based on fleet number.

    I like that they can present usability numbers through OnStar, but they should be helpful. I’m usually a positive guy on the Volt. However, when presented with misleading numbers at work or elsewhere (like this email Lyle shares) I have to “fight the power”.


  39. 39
    itsmel

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (1:08 pm)

    john1701a,

    Really? Your observation about computer advancement not been my experience at all. Progress comes at the cutting-edge, and the latest cutting-edge consumer computer technologies tend to be very expensive when they first come out. A top end CPU today runs $900-$1,000. A top end graphics card can cost $600-$1,000. Sure there are good options available for less (like the Prius is). But before long, today’s top end will become tomorrow’s value buy, and today’s value buy will find its way to the remainders table.


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    jeffhre

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (1:16 pm)

    john1701a: Progress in the computer industry has always been measured by delivering greater performance & capacity without an increase to price.

    That is true John. Yet, with all the progress that has been made in my life time, I have never driven a computer to run errands, get to work, drive kids to school.

    Though, if your point is that the Echo costs less than the Prius then you are right on target.


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    ClarksonCote

     

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (1:34 pm)

    john1701a: It was a generic link, providing a large collection of information… but lacking the specific that was requested. In other words, why in the world is a domestic industry minimum being used?46.1 MPG was my average last month… measured at the pump… using a bigger vehicle… in colder conditions. So a value of 40 makes way the heck more sense than something in the 20’s.With a half-million Prius purchases just last year alone, still looking back to sub-30 efficiency for setting the bar is way too low..  (Quote)  (Reply)

    John, I will list it again in bold for you.

    Their estimate is as follows: Estimated Gallons of Fuel Saved. Calculation: (miles driven during time period / EPA identified average combined MPG for compacts for 2009) – fuel used during time period. Details can be found at http://www.epa.gov/OMS/fetrends.htm and selecting Appendix F4.

    While lower than your Prius MPG, an average of the fleet of the same vehicle class seems like a most appropriate comparison.

    join thE REVolution


  42. 42
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    Jan 25th, 2011 (1:37 pm)

    usbseawolf2000: 3,443 miles / 114 mpg = 30.2 gallons consumed.3,433 miles @ 19kWh per 100 miles = 654.2 kWh consumed.33 MPG Ford Fiesta (compact) would consume 104.3 gallons for 3,443 miles. So Volt is saving 74 gallons.50 MPG Prius saves 68.9 gallons over a 25 MPG non-hybrid midsize.The main difference is, Volt needs to be plugged in and consume 654.2 kWh while Prius is cordless. Is the extra 4.1 gallons saving worth the 654.2 kWh electricity consumed?  (Quote)  (Reply)

    The Prius does not get 50MPG in Lyle’s driving/climate conditions. If you’re going to say it does, then I get to say the Volt gets a 50 mile range in these conditions. While we’re at it, we can talk about the unicorns and leprechauns that were waving at us as we drove by.

    join thE REVolution


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (1:44 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (2:16 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (2:22 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (2:28 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (2:29 pm)

    JohnK,

    John, Has your VIN been assigned yet? Would you car to share it if it has? Do you think that VIN’s are fairly indicative of how many Volts are in the wild? Maybe 90% of the Volts are in privately owned hands vs. fleets or testing?


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (2:39 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (2:58 pm)

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    George

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:04 pm)

    I’d love to see a post on what you don’t like about the Volt, or what could be improved on. Rarely is something perfect.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:06 pm)

    john1701a:
    Progress in the computer industry has always been measured by delivering greater performance & capacity without an increase to price..    

    I call FUD.

    What’s another industry got to do with it? How much has the Prius progressed in 10 years? A (maybe) 5% efficiency increase at a higher cost?

    I don’t believe you want to go down this road. Especially on a competitive car’s fan forum.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:20 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:24 pm)

    usbseawolf2000: 33 MPG Ford Fiesta (compact) would consume 104.3 gallons for 3,443 miles. So Volt is saving 74 gallons.
    50 MPG Prius saves 68.9 gallons over a 25 MPG non-hybrid midsize.

    LOL, so now we are going to compare a Volt to a Fiesta, but a Prius to a 25mpg car. How much more are you going to continue to contort the truth to try make the Prius look good? How about I compare the Prius to my bicycle, and the Volt to a U-haul truck? And then use the gas savings comparisons?

    Your new argurment (desperately grasping at straws), the Volt & Prius can’t be compared due to their sizes, is a joke. So basically you lost all of your arguments comparing the Volt directly to a Prius, and now you are trying to separate the comparison to try & put the Prius in a good light.

    Give up.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:24 pm)

    usbseawolf2000: If 4.1 gallons is going to make OPEC rich, generating 654 kWh will make us filthy.

    Who is us? My state’s electrical grid takes great advantage of renewables, uses fuels from NA and has only 1% coal derived electrical power. How about yours?


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:30 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:36 pm)

    USB @ post #31..

    I am not seeing where you got 4.1 gals. you are comparing the volt to a 33 MPG ford and the Prius to a 25MPG car..apples to apples please…@25MPG the volt saves 107 gals not 74, or at 33 mpg, the Prius saves about 35…
    the prius would use about 30-40 more gallons than the volt for the same distance (@50mpg). its not about $ really, its about oil…I mean why is the Prius popular? roomy? no, beautiful? no, great in snow? no. Chick magnet? no, horsepower? no, lots of tuner kits? no. featured in fast and furious movies?? no, lets face it..it is because it is efficient, it saves GAS, and regardless of source, electricity is domestically produced, oil, not so much..so 654kw, or 1654kw..the fact is that if oil consumption can be kept at a level where the US and its allies are no longer relying on US hating countries, then every (indeed ANY) step is a step in the right direction. The Prius started the revolution, no doubt, but it was only the first step…EREV nad BEV are the next..and sorry, but the mighty T is now behind the curve.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:37 pm)

    john1701a: 35.5 MPG is the upcoming industry fleet requirement.
    That is what comparisons should be based upon, since that’s what will be available for purchase… not what is no longer being sold.

    3443 miles:

    35.5 mpg (future fleet?)
    = ~97 gallons

    Prius winter mpg (Per John 1701a, Dec.Jan.Feb.) 45.5;
    = ~77.3 gallons

    Consumer Advisory Board (CAB) Volt @ 33 mpg CS mode
    = ~30 gallons

    Yep, that looks realistic to me. John, thanks for the tip.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:41 pm)

    john1701a: The 2010 is bigger and more efficient. Now take a close look at leg room in back. That’s why one is a compact and the other a midsize.

    1″ of sheet metal is not going to cause the Volt’s 150mpg to drop to 50mpg of the Prius. When the MPV or Gen 2 Volt comes out, and is bigger than the Prius, and is still getting 3x the efficiency/gas displacement… what will be your new argument then? I think you are running out of straws.

    Keep buying your Japanese designed, Chinese built Prius. We’ll stick w/the more efficient, American designed & made Volt.


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    usbseawolf2000

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:51 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:58 pm)

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    Loboc

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (3:59 pm)

    john1701a: That’s why one is a compact and the other a midsize. Geez!

    I call Duh!

    2005 Magnum will hold two of those bicycles. 2006 RAM 1500 will hold six of them. A 53′ tractor/trailer will hold about 60. What’s the point again?

    If we’re talking miles-per-hour-per-bicycle, the tractor/trailer will win.

    Hmm… It’ll carry about 10 Prii on a car transport. That’s about 80mpg each.

    How ridiculous do you want to go. I can do this all day.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:02 pm)

    john1701a: Even the 2004 Prius is bigger than Volt

    The Volt is longer and wider than the Prius.

    VOLT
    Overall Length 177.1 in
    Overall Width 70.4 in

    PRIUS
    Overall Length 175.6
    Overall Width 68.7


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:06 pm)

    usbseawolf2000: A better comparison is to use the same class gas-only cars that both the Prius and the Volt intend to replace.

    Ok. Now we came around full circle. GM *is* comparing Volt to other cars with the ‘saves 103 gallons’ data point.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:07 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:13 pm)

    usbseawolf2000: Wake up, Prius is a mid-size car. If Volt were a mid-size, it would consume more electricity and gasoline.
    A better comparison is to use the same class gas-only cars that both the Prius and the Volt intend to replace.
    Of course, you can still compare Volt directly to the cordless Prius and Volt will still look bad with a string (cord) attached.

    I’m awake. I think you are in a Pruis dreamworld. Now you want to use “Class Size” replacement, because (sarcasm on) we all know everyone buys the same exact car they had before.. and 0.00001″ means the difference between “mid-size” and “compact”.. LOL. (sarcasm off). Why don’t we just use common sense/engineering? Or even simpler, rip out a Prius’s guts and stick Voltec in there. You’re going to get triple digit MPG’s. You have no argument. The Prius drive-train is obsolete and has been replaced by Voltec. Even the PIP is a joke with a tiny EV range. I think if you took a Toyota badge, and slapped it on the Volt, you would do an about face on all of your FUD. Maybe when Toyota finally copies GM’s design, you will see the light.. but most likely you’ll stay in your Prius dreamworld.

    Even Wiki is smarter than you.
    “The Chevrolet Volt is a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle manufactured by the Chevrolet division of General Motors. The Volt has been on sale in the U.S. market since mid-December 2010,[4][5] and displaced the Toyota Prius as the most fuel-efficient car sold in the United States”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:15 pm)

    john1701a: What does that have to do with leg room

    I thought we were talking about how a BIGGER car would use MORE energy?
    If you want to talk about the interior, what about cheap interior materials in the Prius, its awkward driving position, its bad looks, its lack of USB interface, its terrible dash layout, and on , and on, and on…..


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    flmark

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:23 pm)

    Whew…my clicker finger is getting tired with all those -1s.

    Do not feed the trolls. It gives them a sense of relevance.

    I wish we could post a bumper sticker on their posts that I saw once,
    ‘Born to annoy people.’


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:23 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:25 pm)

    usbseawolf2000:
    In NY, coal is 0% but national average in the US is 49.6%.In NY, 55% of the electricity comes from fossil fuel (Oil and Gas).Source: http://www.epa.gov/cleanenergy/energy-and-you/how-clean.html    

    The NY figures are 5 years old and wind resources have doubled. Would that make electric vehicles bought in the past (which if running in New York, were cleaner than a Prius) cleaner still today.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:26 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:37 pm)

    JohnK: Well, I guess the trolls are back.

    #35

    Sigh, yeah I guess so. You guys have been trying to convert good old john1701a for literally years with no discernible progress, LOL. Save your energy is my advice.

    I just go down the line and give them the customary “-” on every comment and move on. God forbid that, when one of their efforts gets voted “off the island”, somebody should quote it and bring it back to life. It just eggs them on IMHO.

    PDNFTT


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:39 pm)

    AP Energy Writer, On Tuesday January 25, 2011, 4:31 pm

    NEW YORK (AP) — The return of healthy profits at the major oil companies should mean richer rewards for shareholders. And perhaps more indignation at the gas pump.

    Oil is expected to rise 17 percent this year to an average of $93.42 per barrel, according to government forecasts. The price rose 12 percent in the fourth quarter. Experts say oil could hit $100 before summer if the economy improves. That could push gasoline above $4 per gallon in 15 states by Memorial Day, according to the Oil Price Information Service.

    Three years ago, when a barrel of oil jumped to $147 in July and a gallon of gas topped $4, lawmakers vilified oil executives for handing out dividend payments and buying back stock instead of using the windfall to expand their search for oil.

    NPNS

    MyLink report for Volt #555
    observed battery range today ~ 36 miles per charge
    total miles 508
    EV miles 473
    gas in gallons .53
    MPG 958


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:39 pm)

    flmark: Do not feed the trolls. It gives them a sense of relevance.

    #67

    Amen. +1


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    jeffhre

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:43 pm)

    john1701a:
    Subtract the 30 consumed from that 97 to get a savings of 67.That’s a much better representation of what people will actually be making purchase decisions with..    

    That is true – If we are comparing future car buying choices. My inclination would be to compare cars bought today with the cars that are being replaced. One way would be to compare Volts to an abstraction of fleet mileage for cars that are between five to eight years old. A more interesting choice for me would be to compare the Volt to a comparable car sold from 4 to 6 years earlier. At 3443 Dec/Jan 2010/11 miles:

    2006 Prius, 43 winter mpg
    = ~80 gallons

    2010 CAB Volt, 33 CS winter mpg
    = ~30 gallons


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    Dave K.

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:46 pm)

    Noel Park: trying to convert good old john1701a

    I like John. You have to give the guy credit for standing up for what he believes. He likes to drive Toyota’s and is probably in the sales/profit loop. Personally, I am done with Toyota. Honda still makes a pretty good car although most models deliver a numb and boring driving experience at 28MPG. One day John will demo a Volt and one of the later Voltec truck models. John will end up owning both Toyota and GM. I look forward to meeting John at a future Volt rally.

    NPNS


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    CaptJackSparrow

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:57 pm)

    YeeeeehaW!

    Lookie all this bantering around back & forth. Yall better than watching Oprah or Dr. Phill!

    lol, yall know you all have the same goals right?
    Reduce our OPEC juice consumption?

    Let’s just all have a few pitchers of beer together. it’s all good!!!

    Nuttin but love 4 all yall!!!


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    bookdabook

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (4:59 pm)

    Having used only 0.5 gal of gas after driving 500 miles, the Volt is a very satisfying commuter. I am opportunity charging at work but measuring kWh used just in case the facilities guy calls me on it. I haven’t charged at home for a week now and hope to avoid using my house electrons as much as possible. I’m waiting on the Volt auto generator start to happen since I am not using gas … though I probably won’t notice it since even the gas engine is quiet with this vehicle (:

    Silently motoring along in my #135,
    -Book


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (5:19 pm)

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    Loboc

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (5:35 pm)

    john1701a: becomes a confusing mess

    Where some see a confusing mess, I see a varied and dynamic pool of supporters.

    These folks are from all walks of life and have very different reasons for wanting an electric drive train. Everything from performance enthusiasts to tree huggers are represented in this huge diverse group.

    This is why some of us have been saying all along that GM is way, way, (way) low on their estimated demand. The Volt meets (or exceeds) the needs of a very large audience.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (5:58 pm)

    john1701a: Progress in the computer industry has always been measured by delivering greater performance & capacity without an increase to price.

    What BS. There are innumerable instances of sacrificing performance and capacity for some other feature – like mobility or size. Compare early LCD monitors to CRT monitors, for eg. Or laptops with desktops.

    The main feature of plug-ins is that they use less oil. For some people that may not be important – for a lot of us that is a VERY important feature.


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    Tagamet

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (6:06 pm)

    DonC: I never know if you’re just dense or intentionally obtuse.

    These are not mutually exclusive states.

    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Make More Volts!


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (6:09 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (7:15 pm)

    Roy H: I guess you can’t blame GM for posting the most impressive figures, but since the 114mpg includes electric miles and 19kwh/100 miles includes gas consumption, both figures are artificial. If you look at the 71% electric and apply that, 114 x 29% = 33mpg in CS mode,and 19 / 71% = 26.76kwh/100 miles in ev mode. Much more relevant numbers and easier to understand.    

    Wait a second. Are you saying he’s getting like 3.9 miles per KWH while driving in the winter with the heat on at highway speeds? I thought it would be like 2 miles per KWH. How many miles per KWH is he getting when driving in EV mode? I’m getting the volt in 1 to 3 months.

    Thanks

    MrEnergyCzar


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (7:54 pm)

    I think calling ‘On Star’ free is misleading. Take a look at it this way, “I spent 40,000 dollars to get free ‘On Star’. That makes about as much sense as saying “GM gave me zero percent financing”.

    Better GM gives us the option to chose, or not chose, On Star in the future and pass on the savings to the consumer.

    Yes, I realize it was important for GM to be able to monitor the first batch of Volts out there. But don’t take our financial intelligence for granted GM.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (8:18 pm)

    CaptJackSparrow: YeeeeehaW!Lookie all this bantering around back & forth. Yall better than watching Oprah or Dr. Phill!lol, yall know you all have the same goals right?
    Reduce our OPEC juice consumption?Let’s just all have a few pitchers of beer together. it’s all good!!!Nuttin but love 4 all yall!!!    

    Right on Capt’n Jack!!


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    usbseawolf2000

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (8:51 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (9:09 pm)

    kdawg: The Volt has been on sale in the U.S. market since mid-December 2010,[4][5] and displaced the Toyota Prius as the most fuel-efficient car sold in the United States

    Wrong! That title belongs to Nissan Leaf with 99 MPGe but it requires you to plug it in. Prius still has the highest cordless MPG of any car of any size sold in the US.

    Just a few months ago you guys were in the Voltard pipe dream of 50 MPG and 40 miles EV range. I have been a realist. Go back and read my posts from a few months back. They are pretty darn accurate.

    I don’t post here to get +1 or to win the popularity contest. Comments like “Congrats” and “Be Well” gets really boring.


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    carcus3

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (9:12 pm)

    I guess Consumer reports uses a different “measuring stick” than OnStar:

    AER: 25 miles
    wh/mile: 500
    mpg: 30

    Average mpg when charged once per day: 53 mpg

    Just In: 2011 Chevrolet Volt – Living with our test car
    http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/01/just-in-2011-chevrolet-volt-living-with-our-test-car.html


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (9:19 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (9:22 pm)

    bookdabook: Having used only 0.5 gal of gas after driving 500 miles, the Volt is a very satisfying commuter. I am opportunity charging at work but measuring kWh used just in case the facilities guy calls me on it. I haven’t charged at home for a week now and hope to avoid using my house electrons as much as possible. I’m waiting on the Volt auto generator start to happen since I am not using gas … though I probably won’t notice it since even the gas engine is quiet with this vehicle (:
    Silently motoring along in my #135,

    OK, I spoke too soon about adventitious charging at work. Not 1 h after my last proud post, my Section Director no less came to pull me aside from other people and quietly told me I couldn’t plug into the garage until we figured out if the Landlord would have any issues with it. There are questions of how much to pay, but I think the real issue is liability. He said it was someone else but I know the Director likes to worry about everything way too much. He even said the “Landlord” might be worried about what if a power surge burned out the car. I told him a surge protector is built in but I think he doesn’t believe me unless I have some official documentation.

    Well I’ll have to charge at home until I get this sorted out. Man it’s tough being an early adopter!

    Silently motoring along in #135 with a furrow in my brow,
    -Book


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    JeffB

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (9:28 pm)

    Anyway you say it…the Volt MSRP is still priced nicely above the $28,400 new MSRP average.

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut11.shtm

    However, $41K is in the range of mass produced luxury vehicles. Hopefully, the Volt provides a path to producing an EREV priced nicely below the average. Just keep in mind that it may not be GM. Xerox seems to come to mind here. GM needs to remember that everyone can not afford a $41k vehicle…regardless of their level of passion for EREV.


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    evnow

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (9:48 pm)

    john1701a: Nope.It’s the difference between niche & mainstream.

    Before something becomes mainstream, it will be a niche. Are you really this dense ?


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    Tagamet

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:00 pm)

    evnow:
    Before something becomes mainstream, it will be a niche. Are you really this dense ?    

    Uncontested.

    Be well,
    Tagamet

    Make More Volts!


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    Virginia Volt

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:01 pm)

    Random comments from a VOLT owner:

    The ICE is made in Austria, the battery is made in Korea, I’m sure other parts are from various other countries, but it is all put together in Michigan.

    This is new technology. At this time, General Motors is the only one selling a vehicle with this technology. This is the first time in about 30 years that an American company , not an Asian or European company, has lead in real automotive innovation. For that and several other reasons I bought a Volt.

    It is not perfect; I didn’t expect to be, but it is another step toward a future when vehicles will be fueled with something other than carbon extracted from beneath the ground.

    This technology needs to be out in the market place. It will evolve and get better and less expensive.
    Lets save all the hair splitting arguments until about the year 2018. We will know more by then.
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -

    I have a kilowatt-hour meter on the 110v outlet I use to charge the Volt. I have used it since I got the car. I have a running total of the KWH used at the electric outlet to charge the car.
    Most hardware stores sell the meter for about $30. The brand I bought is called “Kill-A-Watt”.

    The weather in the Washington DC area has been cold and I have occasionally used the heater, so not all those KWH were used to propel the car. I expect to have fairly good data on miles -per – KWH in about 6 months.

    Based on how I use a car now, I will probably use electricity 80% of the time, gasoline 20%

    And yes John, I know some of the electricity that I use is produced by burning coal, (in Virginia about 40% is from coal – the remainder is mostly from nuclear and natural gas – about 1.5% is from renewables)
    The only thing I can do about that at this time is to voluntarily pay an additional 1.5 cents per KWH to the electricity utility for “green power”

    Paying for the Volt put a serious dent in my bank account. It will take a couple of years to recover; then – maybe – solar panels to really make fueling this machine carbon free.
    More later……….


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    TGXG

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:25 pm)

    MrEnergyCzar:
    Wait a second.Are you saying he’s getting like 3.9 miles per KWH while driving in the winter with the heat on at highway speeds?I thought it would be like 2 miles per KWH.How many miles per KWH is he getting when driving in EV mode?I’m getting the volt in 1 to 3 months.ThanksMrEnergyCzar    

    I wish we knew. Lyle stopped updating his daily log just before xmas, right when he started getting low 20′s electric range (I know the log shows 31.3, but that is with multiple charges. Also, shortly afterwards Lyle made a post about his poor electric range.)

    Too bad, it was a good source of information. Now we are left with anecdotal stories of low-to-mid 20′s electric range and gas engines that come on for several minutes at ~12MPG shortly after each time the car is started even when there is electric range remaining. CR’s numbers are probably the most accurate we have. They are getting 25 miles electric and 30MPG ICE, but that is at a relatively warm 20-30 degrees

    So I think your original expectations were correct if not a little high, depending on where you live. Realistically, you can expect 12.9KWh to charge + ~1KWh/day (someone else made a forum post about the Volt taking 100 – 250 W/h when plugged in even when charged) and somewhere around 25 miles of range. So somewhere around 1.8KWh/mile sounds about right.


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    john1701a

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:28 pm)

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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:42 pm)

    Virginia Volt: The ICE is made in Austria, the battery is made in Korea

    Note; the battery & engine will soon be made in Michigan as well.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:47 pm)

    john1701a: Volt-2 is going to disenchant many enthusiasts.

    john1701a: There’s a painful transition coming.

    LOL.. the new attack, Volt Gen 2. Wow, that was a creative grasp at a straw! You can make up things about Volt Gen 2 for months & months. Keep spreading the FUD. I’m sure your friends at Pruis Chat appreciate it.


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    Jan 25th, 2011 (10:54 pm)

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    Jan 26th, 2011 (12:54 am)

    john1701a:
    Huh?Asking for goals has been an on-going battle, started years ago.Remember those “nicely under $30,000” and 50 MPG claims?Asking what we should expect for mainstream acceptance is nothing new..    

    The design was changed for practical reasons.

    50mpg is for the original 1L. $30k was an early Lutz swag.

    Original goal was 40aer. Now it’s 50.

    Let go of the past. Goals change which is a good thing.


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    flmark

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    Jan 26th, 2011 (1:01 am)

    Virginia Volt: Paying for the Volt put a serious dent in my bank account. It will take a couple of years to recover; then – maybe – solar panels to really make fueling this machine carbon free.
    More later

    I have been reading the Prius troll’s crap all day and avoiding comment, but I am glad you wrote this. I already have the solar (LOTS between home and business) and said repeatedly that the Volt demographic will rapidly embrace solar as much as it can. This guy just won’t shut up about anything so there is no need to engage him. I just want to encourage you to keep that solar goal in mind. At the end of the day, we Volt fans will be the near zero footprint folks and it is the Prius diehards who will have to defend their inability to ‘just say no’ to oil and other fossil fuels.


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (2:09 am)

    Ah yes, good old J1701a. Good to hear from you! You were very helpful when I emaled you some questions back in ’03 when I was getting my ’04 Prius. Your web site has a lot of good Prius info on it.

    But I don’t get why you are so Prius-centric. Do you ever say anything supportive about any other car? Do you hate the Leaf and predict doom and gloom for it as you do the Volt? The Prius is great, I agree, I loved mine and I think the new one is awesome. But I love the Volt even more, so I bought one and it has exceeded my expectations. Doesn’t mean I’m going to slam the Prius though.

    I’m all for efficiency, reducing pollution, and reducing oil consumption, and I have to assume you are too. So why not encourage ALL cars that are helping us toward those goals? It seems like you feel threatened by the Volt so you have to tear it down. The Volt is not a threat to the Prius or the Leaf. Each has its place and each is the perfect car for specific needs.

    I know Toyota is planning a plug-in Prius. I think that will be a fantastic car. Until then, there’s no other car like the Volt, a real production car that lets you go weeks without buying gas, and takes you on long cross country trips too. Isn’t there ANYTHING in that description that excites you on some level, that you see as a positive thing?

    As for the topic of this thread, I will agree that GM could have done a better job with the calculations on the OnStar Vehicle Report. The frist two numbers on the report are really meaningless: Total gas used divided by total miles driven (both gas and electric miles combined), then Total electricity used divided by total miles driven (both gas and electric miles combined). How silly! Gas used should be divided by gas miles driven, and electricity used should be divided by electric miles driven. Too bad we will all have to manually calculate those each month. Perhaps GM will revise. See post #5 from Roy H above, he nailed it.


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    Dave K.

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    Jan 26th, 2011 (6:22 am)

    honoreitiscom: The frist two numbers on the report are really meaningless: Total gas used divided by total miles driven (both gas and electric miles combined), then Total electricity used divided by total miles driven (both gas and electric miles combined). How silly! Gas used should be divided by gas miles driven, and electricity used should be divided by electric miles driven. Too bad we will all have to manually calculate those each month.

    The technology in the Volt is challenging many ideas of the past. If you like driving a Fiat you say, “The Volt is far too heavy. Carrying that big battery around”. If you drive a BMW or Audi you say, “Just 8.5 seconds in the quarter mile? Not fast enough for me”. If you’re an OPEC hater you say, “1000 total miles driven with 5 gallons of gasoline. This equals 200mpg”. If you drive a hybrid you say, “700 miles on electric motor plus 300 miles on 5 gallons of gasoline. This equals 60mpg”.
    The Volt is not a battery and a 1.4L engine and brakes that regen. The Volt is one whole car. If the Volt travels 1000 miles while burning 5 gallons of fuel. It achieves 200mpg.

    =D-Volt


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (7:22 am)

    jeffhre: That is true – If we are comparing future car buying choices. My inclination would be to compare cars bought today with the cars that are being replaced.   (Quote)  (Reply)

    I agree with you. I want to buy a Volt to replace my 1995 Buick Regal. It isn’t a big gas guzzler now, since I have upgraded it a bit (K&E air filter and E3 spark plugs) to increase its average MPG from 18 to 20 (a 11% increase with only a $50 investment), but I want to drive electric and I want to drive an American car. The Volt will fulfill my needs, and I will keep my American money in American hands.

    I wanted to buy a Ford Escape Hybrid in 2009 but no local dealer had it, so I bought a Chevy Equinox and I still kept my money in American hands. With that poor Ford experience now, I don’t believe that the Fusion Hybrid or electric Focus can substitue my desire for the Chevy Volt.

    Raymond


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    Fluke

     

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    Jan 26th, 2011 (7:26 am)

    Another Toyota troll day, another 1.5 million Toyotas recalled…

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/01/26/toyota.recalls/index.html?hpt=T2


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (8:10 am)

    honoreitiscom: But I don’t get why you are so Prius-centric. Do you ever say anything supportive about any other car?

    It’s easy to get that impression, here. Elsewhere, I appear to be anti-GM because I am indeed supportive for others. The problem all along has been the lack of choice. Either you like this particular configuration of Volt or you are deemed someone trying to cause harm, one extreme or the other. That’s why I asked over and over again for goals. Some I actually do agree with.

    But certain individuals here were so deeply entrenched with the thought of using just a few gallons of gas per year that they fought me relentlessly… especially after discovering I was correct about the affect of the heater, the efficiency of the engine, and the price.

    Look back when it started (which is well documented here and in my blogs). Back then, I was seeking an ally. Volt would be a fellow plug-in. They didn’t want that. The “leapfrog” idea mutated into “vastly superior”, which still doesn’t make any sense from a vehicle hoping establish a plug-in infrastructure.

    Why are they so against the plug-in Prius?

    .


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (8:16 am)

    MrEnergyCzar,

    Yes, that works out to 3.745 m/kwh. I assume that this is the energy consumed from the battery and does not include energy losses in charging the battery. Unless of course, I made a mistake in my math. :)


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (9:56 am)

    Dave K.: The Volt is not a battery and a 1.4L engine and brakes that regen. The Volt is one whole car. If the Volt travels 1000 miles while burning 5 gallons of fuel. It achieves 200mpg.

    This is the whole problem with too much data. The data can be spun into whatever conclusion the observer desires.

    Since Volt *can* separate out it’s electric vs gasoline usage, people are able to make these statements about gasoline consumption. Do we separate out the electric vs gasoline usage of a parallel (non-plug) hybrid? Nope.

    That said, ignoring the grid electrical consumption is equally bad. Since Volt does not keep track of KWh consumed, we can conveniently declare 230mpg or whatever number fits the need of the day.

    Add the total energy consumed and divide by the miles traveled. This will give a truer picture.

    Don’t use the onboard computer (or by extension, OnStar) to do it either. Count the KWh and count the gallons pumped. Neither the onboard computer nor OnStar has inputs for these numbers.


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    Charlie H

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    Jan 26th, 2011 (10:25 am)

    Real-world numbers. Disappointing real world numbers, to say the least.

    Yet, the Volt fanboy spin could make even the most casual visitor to the site dizzy. And the posters that bring facts still get massiv negative votes. Not much has changed!

    What can I contribute to the discussion? Well, let’s see… at $3/gallon and $.11/kwh, Lyle’s fuel cost is $4.72 per 100 miles.

    The Prius fuel cost is, nominally, $6 per 100 miles.

    The Volt is an extra $11K over the Prius (ignoring the taxpayer’s generous gift and never mind the higher insurance and registration fees and cost of money for the Volt). To get to breakeven on fuel cost is ($11000 / $1.18) * 100. I get 932 thousand miles.

    I hope Lyle’s not doing anything special this weekend. He’s got a lot of driving to do.

    Oh and let’s not look too carefully at that pounds of CO2 avoided number, shall we? I’m sure there’s some unpleasant reality lurking behind the curtain.


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (10:25 am)

    Loboc: This is the whole problem with too much data. The data can be spun into whatever conclusion the observer desires.

    You mean vague data, where’s there isn’t enough detail available… exactly like the screen above.

    Providing nothing but a spreadsheet with raw numbers is the ideal. Rather than someone feeding you their own interpretation, you can draw your own conclusions.

    .


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (10:33 am)

    Virginia Volt: maybe – solar panels to really make fueling this machine carbon free.

    If you charge your Volt at night, it won’t be carbon free. Night-time electricity is cheaper because it is generated mostly from fossil fuel. Something to think about.


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (10:38 am)

    honoreitiscom: I’m all for efficiency, reducing pollution, and reducing oil consumption

    Volt does 1 out of 3. ULEV, 37 MPG is not as efficient as or as clean as your ex-Prius. You downgraded in terms of efficiency and emission reduction. You also downgraded the size of the vehicle. You are reducing oil consumption but you are increasing fossil fuel consumption (from electricity).


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    Charlie H

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    Jan 26th, 2011 (10:42 am)

    Hey, Fluke,

    Toyota just recalled my minvan, too. It’s 11 years old and they wanted to check and replace the cable that holds up the spare tire. Some of them got corroded. I don’t know that any have actually failed. Mine didn’t look corroded (I live in Road Salt Heaven, by the way) but they still replaced it.

    They would have done just that for free whenever I happened to drop by but I chose to have them do it while they changed the oil (they’re cheaper than any Insty-Loob in my area and the service is better; they wash the car, unplug the windshield washer nozzles, do a number of other little things and they don’t upsell me on crap I don’t need) and I ate some of their free coffee and donuts while I waited.

    There’s a reason Honda and Toyota have grabbed gobs of market share over the past 30 years and it isn’t because millions of people here love the Japanese.

    Right now, there’s a lot of attention on Toyota recalls, which are mostly for issues that aren’t particularly serious or interesting but result from a determined attempt on Toyota’s part to make sure every customer is as satisfied as possible with their Toyota. For the most part, this works.

    If Detroit had been doing the same, relentlessly, since 1980, nobody would know what a Toyota is.

    But Detroit didn’t… so we’re now divided into two camps… Detroit fanboyz and people who have experienced better.


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    usbseawolf2000

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    Jan 26th, 2011 (10:45 am)

    john1701a: Why are they so against the plug-in Prius?

    Every report from DOE shows PHV Prius is more efficient (both electricity and gas). Preconditioning from the plug is also superior to that of the Volt. PHV Prius is also cleaner (lower emission) and it would cost much less than the Volt. There is no need for $2k high voltage charger also.

    The only thing going for the Volt is petroleum reduction (replaced by electricity generated mostly with fossil fuel). If the Volt supporters care so much about our national security, why are they driving 15-18 MPG vehicles?


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (2:10 pm)

    usbseawolf2000: If you charge your Volt at night, it won’t be carbon free. Night-time electricity is cheaper because it is generated mostly from fossil fuel. Something to think about. usbseawolf2000(Quote) (Reply)

    True…but fossil fuels are burned day and night. The solar electricity that I pump into the grid during the day (the high demand time) will reduce the fossil fuel burned during that day. The additional fossil fuel burned at night will roughly equal what was not burned during the day.
    …..If I size the system correctly, over the course of a year, I can pump KWHs into the grid equal to what I take from it…..net zero…..

    And I will be selling it to the grid in the daytime

    Ask any power engineer; the electric companies want to buy electricity in the daytime (high demand) and sell it at night (low demand).

    Charge only at night. Your electric suppler will love you


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    Engineer

     

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    Jan 26th, 2011 (4:00 pm)

    Ugh… I think I just got dumber by reading John’s comments.


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    Jan 26th, 2011 (10:10 pm)

    Engineer: Ugh… I think I just got dumber by reading John’s comments.  (Quote)  (Reply)

    I don’t think that’s possible.


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    Jan 27th, 2011 (11:36 am)

    Virginia Volt: The solar electricity that I pump into the grid during the day (the high demand time) will reduce the fossil fuel burned during that day.

    I agree with that from the “collective thinking” point of view. However, the fact of the matter is, your Volt will be running on the electricity generated mostly from the dirty fossil fuel and someone else will be using your solar energy during the day.

    You cannot use your “solar panels to really make fueling this machine (Volt) carbon free. You can neutralize it but that’s like making confession and giving donations for the sin you committed.