Cadillac XTS Platinum Plugin Hybrid Concept
There is mounting evidence GM plans to build on the success of the Chevrolet Volt and turn out various electric vehicles in the coming years. GMs CEO Dan Akerson is a big proponent of vehicular electrification and recently noted GM was already studying ways to double or triple production.
Other reports suggest GM may be planning to unveil an extended range electric crossover Chevy Amp at the Detroit Auto Show in January.
The latest report from Reuters cites anonymous GM sources who say the company is also planning to build a plug-in electric Cadillac crossover based on the SRX. This vehicle would make use of the two-mode plugin drivetrain that GM had previously been working on for the Saturn VUE which was scrapped with the brand’s demise.
GM-Volt has learned non-plugin 2-mode hybrid version of the SRX is also known to be undergoing testing.
When asked if GM would be spreading Voltec technology to brands other than Chevrolet, CEO Akerson told reporters last week, “you know, I am having a meeting on that tomorrow.”
GM vice chairman Steve Girsky also confirms his company and CEO are determined to push hard on electrification, building on the already established lead of the Voltec foundation. ”We want to push our lead,” said Girsky. “Akerson is intent on pushing the metal on this thing.”
“GM hasn’t had a leadership vehicle like this in a long time,” he said. “Akerson is insistent that we have that.”
The Volt has begn rolling out to owwners across the nation. GM plans to build 15,000 total copies of 2011 and 2012 model year versions of the car in the 2011 calendar year, and at least 45,000 in the follwing year. Just how many they eventualy build annually depends on demand, but GM is looking at many options.
“There is a lot of hand-wringing about whether it should be 60,000 or 120,000, and what if we do this, and what if we do that,” said Girsky. “You can talk yourself out of anything that way, but all that doesn’t take into account the need to have a vision and lead.”
One thing seems certain as thee reports confirm, GM doesn’t plan to rest on its laurels, and will continue to push on with vehicular electrification.
Source (Reuters) and (Autoblog)
This entry was posted on Monday, December 20th, 2010 at 7:13 am and is filed under Cadillac, New Car, PHEV, Voltec. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:23 am)Would the 2011 Volt have been named Car Of The Year if it featured a 20 mile range battery? Good to see GM aiming at higher MPG.
NPNS
+5
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:34 am)I can see where predicting the demand would cause some ‘hand wringing’. The logistics of getting all the suppliers to build 120k vs 45k of something would be a nightmare.
The thing is, reuse of these parts in more models will cause the unit price to go way down. Lots of people here have been saying all along that this should have been a Caddy first because of the initial costs involved.
Good problems to have, though.
Where’s my Volt SS in all this planning?
+5
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:37 am)This is excellent news!
They know the only way to sell 100k Volts is to dramatically lower the price, so it looks to me that they are working very hard at how to get costs down and going through “what if” scenarios with parts suppliers trying to get volume discounts. What is the price of electric power steering if we build 45k, 120k or spread it across multiple lines and order 1M? It might turn out to be practical to put electric power steering, electric brakes, or electric air-conditioning in ICE vehicles, just so they don’t have to buy two different types from suppliers.
I also wonder if they were to replace all automatic transmissions with the two-mode, if the price of the two-mode would come down enough. Again, high volume and don’t have to support multiple designs.
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:47 am)I forgot to say,
I think that Cadillac XTS Platinum Plugin Hybrid Concept looks like a real winner!
Join thE REVolution!
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:47 am)Glad to hear it but “show me the MONEY!” The direction sounds great but I’m no longer interested in plug-in two mode and Voltec concepts. I’m spoiled now and am only intrested in “for production” flavors. C’mon GM, carpe diem!
+12
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:49 am)The Volt has begn rolling out to owwners across the nation
That is, in 7 states. None yet in the other 43.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:52 am)Lyle, I think the Want List has served its purpose and should be removed from the web site.
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:52 am)I think an EREV Caddy makes more sense than a PHEV.
Let’s say it takes 30 seconds to plug in every night, and 30 seconds to unplug every morning. That’s 7 minutes a week. For a trip to the gas station, you have to include the time it takes to get there, wait in line, fuel, pay, and come back. That all adds up to about 15 minutes average.
With the PHEV, you still need weekly trips to the gas station, and you have to plug in every night. With the EREV, trips to the gas station are very rare, perhaps every 3 months or more.
Measuring convenience as approximate time to refuel:
• regular gas engine car = 15 minutes a week to gas up
• EREV = 7 minutes a week to plug/unplug every day
• PHEV = 22 minutes a week to gas up and plug/unplug every day
So the PHEV is the least convenient vehicle to refuel, and the EREV is the most convenient.
.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:54 am)Patience, will be before the end of 2011.
+6
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:56 am)So far, so good! If you keep the quality of your products “top notch”….they WILL sell in huge numbers. My fear is that, as production ramps up…. quality might slip. Please do not let that ever happen again. Everything you build from here on out has to surpass “world class”…..again, the Volt is now doing that….good job….just keep that green, OPEC smashing ball rolling!
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:00 am)We can’t buy them if you don’t build them………………..
Oh, and another reason – They have to be available at dealers in ALL the states!!!!
JMHO
NPNS – I don’t care about the llama…………
Have Outlet – Ready For EREN in Ohio!
-3
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:02 am)A Voltec Cadillac should include the option of an automatic wireless recharging setup for the garage.. one with a range of about 10ft..
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:09 am)XTS at least gives Cadillac something to aim at Lincoln, besides maybe the SRX.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:21 am)Thanks for the update Lyle. It is very encouraging that GMs CEO is bullish on EVs. There has to be EV options in the whole range of vehicle types and sizes for electrification to really take hold. Lyle, how is your new Volt working out?
+22
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:22 am)OK, I may be about to get negged for the first time here, but IMHO we don’t need A Voltec Caddy car that will cost even more than the Volt.
We need a Voltec SUV, pickup and van.
Voltec shouldn’t be just for elite, expensive cars.
Voltaic should be MAINSTREAM and driven by millions, not just thousands.
It’s now time to go there as soon as possible.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:26 am)Exactly.
In fact, many car makers are using electric power steering in regular gas engine cars already.
More parts will go electric as time passes and prices come down, but that process could be accelerated by GM and plug-ins in general.
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:37 am)Although I agree with you Mike, there is no reason that GM can’t be working on several fronts at once (just like every other car maker). The only real difference is that they’d need to fold in the increased battery production – which I believe they could have ready by the time the new vehicles were ready for prime time (production) AND would serve to lower price for we commoners. If they do this, they are upping the pressure on the other mfgs – a broader front on which to compete. “No guts, No glory!” JMO.
Be well and Merry Christmas!,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:38 am)Dan is the Man! He is looking to be the best match for Carlos Ghosn. I thought it was going to be Alan Mulally but it looks like Alan is stuck on Car 1.0 and does not have the right vision for this Century.
The Electrification of Transportation Century.
Carlos is on fire and GM is right there. Go Dan go!
Plug-in or park it.
+8
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:43 am)Yes, but the fact is that Voltec is currently expensive. The question is how to get that cost down.
Luxury cars have always been the first to have the latest features. Air conditioning, power windows, a good audio system, these are all pretty standard now, but when these features first came out, they were only available in luxury cars. People who bought these cars paid a premium for the latest in comfort and convenience. Once these features were being mass produced for a while, manufacturing engineers figured out ways to build them cheaper and more reliable. So in a very real sense, the luxury market pays the way to get new features into the mainstream market.
Bottom line: A Caddy EREV will actually help accelerate the types of EREVs people want at a reasonable price.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:50 am)GM is still thinking to small, 120k+ is what they should be thinking!! Why buy or invest in 2 mode technology when you have the Volt?? Seems like a wast of money for the consumer and the GM!!
+4
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:52 am)Wireless charging isn’t practical at 10 feet. You would lose over 99% of the electric power in the transmission, and anyone that got in the way of that transmission would probably get fried.
And besides, the point of my earlier post is that weekly trips to the gas station take a lot more time than plugging in every night, so that’s the thing we should look to optimize, and that’s exactly what EREVs do.
+4
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:54 am)Voltec is what it is and currently that is EXPENSIVE. There is not short cut around this. While the costs are coming down, GM may as well take advantage of the high end capabilities of this refined drivetrain and put it in vehicles whose clientele can afford to appreciate it’s qualities with their wallets. GM’s brands could each benefit from having a plug-in of sorts in their stable and currently it’s costs fit best with higher end vehicles. When gas prices rise and costs fall then GM can attack to more mainstream market.
+18
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:56 am)I disagree. I think the “Want List” should be revised to include “Volt Received” check box.
NPNS!
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:01 am)Tagamet,
Tag,
An SUV, a pickup and a van ARE several fronts at once.
My fear is that energy spent on creating Voltec Caddies would detract from efforts that could be directed at these more mainstream vehicles.
As soon as possible the genius of Voltec should be available for soccer moms, small business people, construction and contracting trades and scores of other mainstream needs.
IMHO Caddy would be a “halo” move and a distraction from the Electric Revolution.
(FYI, I have been a fan of your posts for years.)
Mike
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:10 am)Thanks for the kind words Mike! I was just thinking that the more models GM fields, the more the parts that they have in common will go down in price. Let the market decide. *MAYBE* the caddy will end up the niche vehicle! (lol).
In *every* case, we’re on our way!
Be well and Merry Christmas!,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!
+16
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:19 am)Voltec domination of planet Earth has only just begun!
[insert sinister laugh here]
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:27 am)Do a lot of people actually drive much out of their way to buy gas? I have six gas stations within 30 seconds of my commuting route. Paying? Less than a minute to swipe the card and key in the zip code. As far as adding the plug-in time to the gas time, the plug-in is going to get far better mileage than the ICE-only car, or what’s the point of it? So the once-a-week buyer is going to be a once every two or three week buyer.
Remember that the EREV is not an electric-only car. One could conjure up a case of the Volt buyer who drove so many miles that he was buying gas once a week.
Inventing a world to make a point doesn’t prove that that world exists.
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:31 am)Tag, Koz and Dave,
Sorry boys, guess I just woke up this morning in a big hurry.
I view this discussion not through the lens of the car business, but as a matter of national security. All of us here know how vulnerable our current level of oil exports makes us as a nation.
Watching developments around the world regarding the oil supply that drives our economy serves to make me ever more concerned. How much more time we have is truly a matter of conjecture.
We must become energy independent as soon as possible.
Voltec can provide an important part of the solution.
The more, the sooner, the better.
That’s why I view Voltec Caddies as an unnecessary distraction.
GO VOLTEC!
-3
Dec 20th, 2010 (10:13 am)“There is mounting evidence GM plans to build on the success of the Chevrolet Volt”
Interesting to see the contrasting views of Lyle & Static. Initial sellout to enthusiasts is not a good guage of the demand for plug-ins. Even Smart sold out initially.
The volume question is intricately linked to the price – and the other way round. Even 50K sales at the current price would be a streatch – let alone 100K. Also, remember the $7.5K credit is only for 200K vehicles.
+4
Dec 20th, 2010 (10:19 am)Either Caddie, the Voltec SRX or the XTS, are going to hit a curb weight of around 4800 lbs. The Equinox currently wieghs about 3800 lbs and the SRX comes in at 4200 lbs. So unless quite a bit of sound insulation is removed as well as the entire chassis goes on a diet, GM will be dressing up an Equinox in Cadillac clothing. As an example, even though Lincoln has a nice hybrid, the most recent test drives prove that it’s obviously a Fusion in character and ride and doesn’t quite justify the price above a Fusion. I hope that Cadillac doesn’t do the same, GM has done a fantastic job of restoring some of it’s former luster, and a diluted vehicle just won’t cut it.
To have an idea of what a heavier vehicle will have in performance, try loading a Volt with a 200+ lb driver and 3 220 lb passengers, add a load of gear in the hatch, take a 200 mile tour for a day and report back. This might be right around the curb weight of the Voltec SRX without a load. Would it work? Would Cadillac owners be happy with a hybrid that is slower than the Volt?
If Cadillac is going to use the Voltec drivetrain, either a stronger generator and ICE are going to be used or the application of torque will be tweeked to have either vehicle be on par with the performance of the ICE only counterparts.
Also, if the other manufacturers are too slow to introduce a competitive product, then GM is wise to move the Voltec upscale. This is a business, after all, and selling vehicles at a price that doesn’t fund further development of the line means that the Volt will end just as soon as it has started.
More than anything, personally, I would love to see the Voltec in a two + two hatch, that that goes 50 miles AER and 50 mpg CS mode selling at an MSRP below $28k, as well as the MPV5 next to it selling at the Volt price. But can GM do it using a domestic manufacturing plant and still make a buck? Not yet, I think.
So until battery prices come down and the drivetrain becomes proven, I am hoping to see GM improve the line by selling vehicles that prove the Voltec worth. If Cadillac is the way to go for now then do it.
+4
Dec 20th, 2010 (10:21 am)I do not agree with that in Illinois I still want and can not get one!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom
+19
Dec 20th, 2010 (10:46 am)When I first started following this site and the Volt it was merely because as a mechanical engineer I found the technology interesting. I would never have considered actually purchasing a Volt to due the price, as yet untested nature of the car in actual owner’s hands over the long haul, concerns over battery life, and probably most important how it drove. I thought that only “greenie nuts” would consider such a car.
After a year of frequenting this site I must say that I was for the most part wrong. First of all the people on this site are a smart, well-informed bunch. My concerns over battery reliabilty are quelled after reading about how GM cares for the battery in the car, plus the warranty of course. Obviously it drives well from the reviews. And thus far the cars seems to be holding up pretty well. GM does after all have quite a bit of experience building “real” cars that last.
I am actually considering purchasing a Volt. I was going to trade my Mazda 3 a few months ago but decided to hold off and perhaps wait until the end of 2011 so I can possibly purchase a 2012 model. The one remaining stumbling point for me is cost. I’d like to be able to get out the door under 30k, after the gov $7500 of course. For some reason 30k is a magic number for me.
Anyway, you all have made me a believer. Long live the Volt!
- Mark
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:11 am)Most PHEVs don’t save that much gas. With a typical driving pattern, assuming you only charge overnight:
Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
Volt ……………………. 55
Plug-In Prius …….. 182
Prius ………………….. 228
30 MPG car ………… 380
20 MPG car ………… 570
So you can see that a typical PHEV would still require frequent trips to the gas station. The mileage is better, but not enough to change the weekly gas-up schedule.
If they made a PHEV with 40 miles of electric assist, then you would only have to go to the gas station every 2-3 weeks. But that would require a very large battery, which would change the safety and handling of the car, so that would be a do-over design, not an option on an existing platform.
-5
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:18 am)Some features were introduced in Prius prior to any Lexus vehicle, like bluetooth and the key-fob. Hybrids braking away from tradition is a part of the industry change often overlooked, their reaching out to middle-market first.
Think about the smart-phone interface in Volt and why GM wanted it to be a Chevy.
.
-6
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:26 am)Don’t start that again. Typical was disproven already.
Either use real-world data or provide detail explaining the example.
Remember, I’ve got over a year of daily-driving logs collected already, which eliminate the need to estimate. They can be used to calculate an actual expectation.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:28 am)GM would be smart to have its most prestigious brand be the showcase for its most cutting edge technology. This is what was done throughout GM’s heyday in the 20th century – Cadillac was usually the first or close to being the first GM product with many advances….. high-compression OHV V-8 engines, Hydra-matic transmission, climate control A/C, PS, PB, dual master brake cylinder, cornering lights, tailfins…..
Back then it was mostly about styling and horsepower that led the way. Today it is about performance with efficiency and reduction of oil. Let Cadillac lead the way and have the new technologies trickle down.
+5
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:30 am)Your driving pattern is no where near typical.
75% of U.S. drivers travel less than 40 miles on any given day. The idea of EREVs is to cover that vast majority of miles all-electric, while still providing unlimited range for unusual driving days.
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:31 am)You’re lucky. In NJ we can’t self serve our gas. We need to wait for an attendant to do it. I’m not sure but I think it’s a job protection law.
NPNS!
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:33 am)___________________________________________________________________
Lyle said: “This vehicle would make use of the two-mode plugin drivetrain that GM had previously been working on for the Saturn VUE which was scrapped with the brand’s demise.”
How is the drive train that was planned for the Saturn VUE different than what is in the Chevy Volt?
KISS!
GM is best served by extending the already marketed and award winning Voltec platform in the Chevy Volt to other GM makes/models and use “Voltec” as a drivetrain brand name across those GM makes/models. Therefore whenever the term “Voltec” is used it will be understood by all what it represents. Cadillac XTS Voltec requires no additional education after one is familiar with the Chevy Volt Voltec. GM managing multiple plug-in architectures under different drivetrain brand names and having to explain to the public (and GM’s own sales channels) the difference between those drivetrains is so OLD GM.
______________________________________________________________________
+4
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:41 am)This moment of comic relief brought to you by the makers of “Revenge of the Electric Car”
.
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:42 am)That was my incentive to order early. I’m sure there will be a window where the credit will run out and the MSRP wont not drop enough to match the current effective price of $33,500.
NPNS!
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:45 am)Glad everyone here likes discussing the Volt and Voltech because it is your full time job if you drive one. In bold print the Autoblog article states:
“I feel sorry for Volt buyers who will be full-time explainers for the foreseeable future. But that’s what they signed up for.”
More advertisement GM, get everyone excited about Voltec technology and have the public understand it as well as McDonalds.
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:45 am)You’re right that volume is related price. But you’re wrong when saying that price isn’t related to volume. It most definitely is because cost is directly related to volume, and cost is related to price. Actually it’s chicken and egg. Low volume = high costs and high prices. High costs = high prices and low volume.
GM needs to get volumes up and consequently it needs more models.
+4
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:47 am)Good Volt article in the latest issue of Design News.
http://www.designnews.com/article/511165-Electronics_Boost_Chevy_Volt_s_Efficiency.php
—————
While driving a rental car over Eisenhower Pass in the Rocky Mountains a few weeks ago, Pamela Fletcher made a surprising discovery: By comparison to the soon-to-be-released Chevy Volt, conventional gasoline-burning vehicles just don’t seem as good anymore
“I’ve been spoiled,” Fletcher says. “When the Volt transitions from mode to mode, it’s seamless. It’s smooth. And that gets emphasized in rolling hills and mountains. You don’t have the ‘hunting’ that goes on when a conventional vehicle tries to find the right gear.”
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:48 am)As big of a fan of the Volt as I am, I hope GM doesn’t over-produce. I don’t think the Volt has yet reached a critical mass of public acceptance. A lot of friends and family I’ve talked with, and told them I want to buy a Volt say, “It’s a neat car and all, but $41k for a compact? Sheesh!” A lower price would certainly help the acceptance proposition, but if all of a sudden, they’re cranking out 120,000 a year, you have the potential unfortunate scenario of a bunch of them sitting on lots needing rebates to move them. It may seem far-fetched now (because availability is so scarce) but it’s happened before. I think GM needs to gradually throttle up production. I think 45-50,000 units in 2012 is about right, and I think they’ll easily move them. At this point, making 100,000 a year, you may see some sitting on lots.
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:50 am)deleted
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:51 am)Dave is referencing all the studies of real drivers, some of whom had monitors installed on their vehicles which ensured very good data. With this data you can calculate an average but you don’t have to. You can use a median or you can say, which he is, that on any given day 78% of US drivers drive less than 40 miles. (Note this is NOT the same as saying that 50% of drivers NEVER drive more than 40 miles or something like that. This may be true but that’s not what he’s saying).
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:54 am)They need to have a clear goal in mind. Top 2 priorities should be:
#1 (by far and away) get the cost down to $25,000 and the price down to $27,500 or so. The tax credits are borrowed time to get this right and find a way to make them cheaper. Hopefully something like solid state batteries won’t require thermal management and will thus reduce a lot of complexity, cost, weight, etc. The plugin Prius is coming and if we’ve learned anything about Toyota, they find a way to get costs down, and attain 6 figure auto sales.
#2 – adding a 5th seat. I don’t think this will be a problem but it’s still one of those things that people complain about that doesn’t seem like it should take a manhattan project to fix.
It would be nice to see some kind of plugin minivan or something and a Voltec Equinox would be sick or even Acadica would be sick. If the 2 mode is still viable given the market, let’s do it, it’s now or never.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:55 am)EVNOW — I take back what I said in #43 as it pertains to you comment. I thought you said “NOT the other way around” when in fact you said “AND the other way around” My bad. All I can say is that it’s early. We’re in agreement that volume is the key to bringing costs down.
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:58 am)Maybe GM should not produce a Volt SS, but should produce a Volt SE (for Super Electric).
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (11:58 am)More times than not people I speak with don’t know what a Volt is. It’s about 2 to 1 don’t know. Yesterday I mentioned my Volt order to a young local business owner. His reply was, “Is that an electric car?”. I explained it has a range extender generator. He replied, “Then it’s a hybrid?”. There is plenty of room for growth for Voltec cars and trucks.
=D-Volt
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:08 pm)The Caddy looks really good…. and with electric drive it would be great.
Even people who can afford the high price of gas will thoroughly enjoy the superior ride of the electric drive. The Caddy already is really quiet and smooth riding… adding electric drive would make it smooth as silk.
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:09 pm)You have two contradictory ideas here. You want the technology to be less expensive and you want the technology in SUVs, pickps, and vans. Can’t really happen. First, you’re starting with larger and more expensive vehicles in the first place — for example, the average SUV costs more than the average sedan. Then, because these vehicles are larger and have more mass, you need to have more battery power to move them. Since batteries and electronics are the most expensive component of the vehicle, that means you’d have higher costs for the batteries and electronics heaped on top of a more expensive vehicle to begin with.
At least for awhile the technology will have to be limited to smaller vehicles. The Chevy Amp is a good idea and some different models would be great — maybe a CUV — but SUVs and pickups will have to wait for more powerful cells.
-6
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:15 pm)Applying a scale-factor is all it takes to depict a distance.
The point is proper representation of the variety encountered in daily driving, something generalizations do a terrible job of. Using 365 data-points is far more accurate.
.
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:17 pm)If they made a PHEV with with a sufficiently large battery to get 40 miles of electric assist it would be called the Volt. Let’s not split hairs too finely.
As far as the difficulty of loading different things on an existing platform, Toyota got everything from the Celica to the Pontiac Vibe off of the Corolla platform. Ford’s using the Taurus platform for the new Explorer. It’s done.
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:19 pm)+1 to you…… but also +1 to GM for pushing to expand VOLTEC powertrain usage. Everyone on this site agrees that the price of the VOLT must ultimately DROP significantly if it is to become a wide spread high volume model. While the prices of components will drop over time, another key is GM’s ability to spread costs out over more models. And if the key to GM’s business case for selling 120,000+ less-expensive Chevy VOLT’s per year is to also build and sell 15 or 25,000 expensive Cadillac’s, then let’s go!
And as VOLT production increases toward 120,000, it is reasonable to expect the line would expand to other variants, like an SUV and commercial cargo van.
Go VOLT!
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:28 pm)Update the Google map with your received Volts!!
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5885-Tracking-Volt-Orders-via-Google-maps
.
+4
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:35 pm)I test drove the Leaf yesterday.
There were a cluster of small pavilions set up for some brief education of the test driving public, which was very informative regarding the Leaf.
The facts presented were important for the potential buyer to understand the limitations of BEV.
The vehicle was comfortable. The outside temperature was 63 degrees. The Air Conditioning was not really “testable” for a heat load, but perhaps the cycling of the compressor was in play for necessary efficiency.
The Accelerator pedal force required was very overly significant during the “ECO-mode”, where the acceleration of the vehicle is also set for maximum range.
I didn’t like what seemed to be an inconsistent force needed to be applied to it, as if an increasing force needed was some sort of a programmed “learning” variation.
This force necessary (although I realize that this is just a phase of learning for Nissan), was a consistent conscious effort which distracted greatly from the appreciation of the drive.
But I am sure Nissan will improve upon that.
The enjoyment-adaptability to the Volt is instantaneous. It immediately becomes part of your expected experience, and, you immediately treasure the profound luxuriousness of the drive.
This aspect of Volt is most certainly going to be essential to be incorporated right across the board in all GM luxury vehicles. Period.
/…back to work.
Have a great Holiday everyone!!!
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:36 pm)Not quite. Take some time to go thru this site. I keep seeing these guys on more & more TV programs.
http://www.witricity.com/index.html
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:41 pm)Hey, check this out……waaaay OT but….
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/12/19/fox-news-attacks-first-nissan-leaf-owner-engages-hate/
Yeah, FOX bashing an EV, Punkazz’s, favoring OPEC
But I guess here’s why….
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129584557
Boooo FOX!!!
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:45 pm)One more product suggestion for Cadillac is
A Voltec Roadster ( Like Porsche Cayman, or 911 or BMW Z4) .
Suggestions are : With the looks derived from the Cadillac Aera Concept and voltec software re calibrated for making as rear engine, Rear wheel drive.
Roadster
ATS
CTS
XTS
Compact SUV/crossover
SRX
Escalade (normal and XL )
Will make the line complete.
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:50 pm)You need to keep up with tech advances Dave, Witricity has achieved 5kw transfers at 3 meters distance with about 95% efficiency… way more that is needed for a practical system. There is no interaction with organic matter, this no microwave oven.
-13
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:53 pm)(click to show comment)
Dec 20th, 2010 (12:56 pm)Hey, I saw them on “Modern Marvels”…..I think that was the channel, or maybe the Science channel, aw sh|t im getting old.
anyway, They demoed their power transmission in a 2.5′ cubed box with the TX (transmitter) and RX (Receiver) 2.5′ away from each other. They lit up 2 500W Halogen lamps with it and said loss was a little less than 6%.
Very cool tech. Watch them in the future.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (1:17 pm)“the need to have a vision and lead”
BINGO!!
Dec 20th, 2010 (1:36 pm)I’m not much for conspiracy theories but it does seem that Fox is carrying the water for the Saudi Royal Family. The line of “Stay dependent on Saudi oil, go into Iraq to defuse the threat to the Saudis, take out Iran because it’s a threat to the Saudis” seems like a foreign policy devised in Riyadh.
Dec 20th, 2010 (1:38 pm)“So unless quite a bit of sound insulation is removed as well as the entire chassis goes on a diet, GM will be dressing up an Equinox in Cadillac clothing.”
Right, except the SRX is already built on the Theta platform, which underpins the Equinox.
Dec 20th, 2010 (1:38 pm)Okay, what’s the deal with the Llama? Is it because a pic was taken at a dealership recently in which a real Llama was spotted in the background; or does the “inside joke” start earlier on?
BTW, whatever happened to “The Volt Monkey?” Did GM change the appearance of the part in production models (new owners and/or Lyle please respond)?
.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (1:45 pm)True enough, however:
Confucious
Or, to turn it around:
Jackson
.
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (1:52 pm)The Saudi link seems a bit too close to a classic conspiracy theory for me; however as a person with a basically conservative philosophy, I find the reaction of Rush, Fox & Co to the Volt distressing and unwarranted. I think that the “mouthpieces” have just continued their known disgust with the Prius crowd to the perceived next thing, and base the rest solely on “Government Motors” (which they lay solely at Obama’s feet, even though it was Bush who signed TARP).
In my opinion, this willful misinformation campaign will serve to weaken their point of view more than it will weaken the Volt, or GM.
BTW, GM was a major sponsor for all of these guys before the 2008 election. Thanks a pantload for your “loyalty,” boys.
.
Dec 20th, 2010 (1:52 pm)Building a Cadillac version of the Volt to me makes a lot of sense. While most people are well-aware that the Volt is only a Chevy in name, there’s likely many others who simply can’t imagine paying $40,000 for a Chevy car. By making it into a Cadillac model that could capture that cross-segment as well. I say build it!
-6
Dec 20th, 2010 (1:53 pm)Real-World data collection is placing the estimate at about 75 MPG for the plug-in,
yet that only shows 62.5 MPG. Where are you getting those numbers from?
.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (2:02 pm)The Volt knows where it is due to it’s onboard GPS; it also knows what time it is, and whether or not it is plugged in. Seems like it could send a smartphone reminder, and not depend on wifey.
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Dec 20th, 2010 (2:19 pm)I just hope as GM expands the Voltec technology they really push to make it more efficient not just cheaper. Getting the MPG in charge sustaining mode should be just as large a priority as getting the cost down. I’m sure efficiency will improve I am just worried that cost savings will trump smart efficiency improvements that could be made. I really like the rumors of the two cylinder engine being discussed (similar to the Fiat twin air 85 hp engine in the 500 in Europe). Hope they go that route and not the Wankel. I think cost will stop the Wankel personally because the emissions will be tricky. I also hope they are going as aggressive as they can to get the weight down in their platforms. GM is taking such a hit on their millage compared to Hyundai and its mostly due to mass. Go GM!
Dec 20th, 2010 (2:20 pm)I like the video of the TED presentation where they are powering a plasma TV from about 4 ft away and the presenter keeps walking in between the TV and the Witricity device.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (2:24 pm)I believe GM is going to start using more light-weight materials in the Voltec cars. However, while increasing range & efficiency, it may increase cost. It all depends on how much battery they can remove for the amount of weight they remove. Some say its an equal percentage, shave 5% of weight you can shave 5% of the battery. It will be interesting to see how it all works out.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (2:25 pm)And make it look like the Converj
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (2:35 pm)Mr President,
Although I think that your assessment is far closer to the mark than CJS or DonC, I’m not on your wavelength either. Fox and company really *do* bash the Volt and the Leaf, but I don’t see it as motivated by anything more complex than their dislike of the govt trying to pick winners (and to a small extent the whole GM bailout). The case for tax monies supporting a Japanese car (even if it will someday be built here) is even tougher. As much as I love the Volt, I’ve repeatedly said that I believe that it is a strong enough product to STAND ALONE, without taxpayer support, and I still believe that. Does anyone here think that the Volt will die when the subsidies run out? For a fansite, folks here sure don’t have much faith in the Volt.
The right wingers are simply saying that products that can stand on their own will be successful. Sweetening the products that the govt believes should succeed, is just not the way to go.
And re the Saudi Prince, how much influence does he really have with Fox given their foursquare stance against the ground-zero mosque? I’m guessing that his 7% interest in Murdock’s companies vs Murdock’s 11% interest in the Prince’s company pretty much is a wash. The NPR piece posted by CJS is more convoluted than a cerebral cortex. It made zero sense, stringing 5 or 6 audio snipits together. Yes, the Prince has good business skills, and yes he supports radical views. Uhhhh, so? Fox (and RUSH) aren’t bashing EV’s because of the Prince’s influence, they are just steadfastly against the govt buying in to private industry.
I’ve sent *many* emails to Fox personalities (and have even spoken to one in person), but they still insist on trashing the Volt. Everyone else here who has even THOUGHT of contacting them, please raise your hand. I thought so.
No conspiracy theories necessary. Just principles. Uber-conservative vs. Uber-liberal. JMO
Be well and Merry Christmas!,
Tagamet
/Rush really *does* need some educating though. He’s let his bias interfere with his personal version of reality (g)
//I wonder what the island looks like when folks vote me off (g)(waves)
Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!
Dec 20th, 2010 (2:47 pm)Have you ever heard Rush & Co. bash the Prius? As John-boy will quickly confirm, sales of the Prius prove that it can “stand alone.” Rush goes on and on about the Prius on the basis of his criticisms of Global Warming, and a worst-case assessment of the environmental costs of producing the car (to say nothing of the perceived smugness of the owners, in general).
I think there is a case to be made for the Right’s perception of the Volt as merely a super-Prius; and as such, mainly a rallying-point for the Left. The reality of the Volt’s “energy security” strengths, and it’s industry leadership status, seem to fall on their deaf ears.
I pretty much agree with you on your other points.
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Dec 20th, 2010 (3:01 pm)To be clear, the article states that a plug-in Cadillac will be produced rather than a Voltec Cadillac. The difference is important. When needed for higher speeds at any point in it’s travel, even starting out, the Cadillac’s engine will drive the car. It is a gasoline car with an electric assist; an assist made more powerful with energy from the grid (when stored energy is exhausted, it will operate like a non-plug-in hybrid).
I agree that building a Cadillac version of the Volt makes sense — more sense — than building the plug-in; though I suspect GM would rather wait for Voltec to become strong enough to propel a much larger vehicle before doing so.
.
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (3:05 pm)This should be GM’s Volt tagline.
Chevrolet Volt, the Electric car that goes over 330 miles on a full charge and a tank full of gas.
Thanks to Voltec powertrain.
NPNS!
Dec 20th, 2010 (3:24 pm)The pickup, particularly, is important inatl, right Mike?
Even if the front has to resemble an airplane. It’s a cultural, lifestyle thing.
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Dec 20th, 2010 (3:46 pm)Unni
Apart from Just finishing the line up, Cadillac need to really push the envelope – like moving to range extender fuel cells which use gas (say if its giving 65% efficiency then we are talking on 70 mpg escalades with out grid energy and this can move to fuel cells with H2, if future needs H2 as fuel) or trying to have Full EV with a Graphene supercapacitor etc.
Second it should take designs to height ( ex: aerodynamics etc ).
In simple words : It needs to align 100% to its Art and Science Theme.
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (3:49 pm)If a company like Phoenix Motorcars http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/
can make an EV pick-up with inferior battery technology, I don’t see why GM can’t make a Voltec pick-up.
NPNS!
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (3:51 pm)From the article
There is mounting evidence GM plans to build on the success of the Chevrolet Volt and turn out various electric vehicles in the coming years.
Right on! This I have been saying all along. Every vehicle in their fleet needs to have VOLTEC.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (3:52 pm)From the article
Other reports suggest GM may be planning to unveil an extended range electric crossover Chevy Amp at the Detroit Auto Show in January.
I really hope this is all-wheel-drive.
Dec 20th, 2010 (3:53 pm)From the article
GM-Volt has learned non-plugin 2-mode hybrid version of the SRX is also known to be undergoing testing.
This one is simple. No Plug, No Sale.
Dec 20th, 2010 (3:57 pm)From the article
“GM hasn’t had a leadership vehicle like this in a long time,” he said. “Akerson is insistent that we have that.”
I had to laugh at this one. GM hasn’t had a leader in a long time.
I am very happy that Mr. Akerson sounds like he will be a good one.
Dec 20th, 2010 (3:58 pm)__________________________________________________
RE: My #39 comment.
Clarification: “Keep It Simple (no apostrophe) Stupid” was directed to GM, not Lyle.
__________________________________________________
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (4:01 pm)From the article
One thing seems certain as thee reports confirm, GM doesn’t plan to rest on its laurels, and will continue to push on with vehicular electrification.
GM has really started something big. They have blown past the Prius in technology and range.
Toyota, IMHO, has rested on its laurels and is now behind the technology curve when it comes
to plug-in range.
If GM can stay on top and keep pushing the envelope on technology, they can only win.
But they really need to build all their vehicles as close to perfect as possible. This will help them
beat back the anti-American-car-buying crowd.
Dec 20th, 2010 (4:09 pm)Not earlier on, just the spotting of the real llama as you said, that and our need for humorous diversion now and then.
Dec 20th, 2010 (4:12 pm)Still in positive territory. Must be the spirit of Christmas.
Now maybe we can stop with the right/left thing for the day?
Michael
+2
Dec 20th, 2010 (4:25 pm)I hate to change the topic, but I deem this as important. I’ve always had the feeling that when Consumer Reports would get a hold of a Volt, they would try to discredit it. It seems like no matter of how good of a car GM makes, they will always try to tear it down.
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1633/hyped-hybrid-the-chevy-volt-gets-average-mileage-for-a-hybrid/
Consumer Reports sucks and many auto enthusiasts can tell you this. But, when it comes to Toyota even to this day, they will tell you they are still top dog in their reports.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (4:48 pm)Roy H, “Lyle, I think the Want List has served its purpose and should be removed from the web site.”
I think the wait list should stay, with people able to put a tick against their name saying either “got one” or “still waiting!”. The list lets GM know their production is way too low.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (4:59 pm)I read that article too ealier. Its too funny. They use the Volt in an area with one of the highest electricty rates and use a lower gasoline price. Then drive 72 miles ONE WAY on their daily commute, in a car thas is engineered for 40mile/day. And then they say that the Volt cost too much to drive and a Prius is better deal. HAHA. This seems like something a few trolls here do. I can stack the argument for the Volt just as easy. Gasoline is 35 times more expensive than electricity where I live and I drive less than 40 miles per day. I wonder how my numbers would turn out against a Priuis. Another bitch i have about the article is he saves all the rational comments for the very end…. when no one is reading anymore.
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:13 pm)Warrany is kinda crappy
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehicles/warranty.php
This is interesting too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Motorcars
Basially a Korean car w/Dubai money backing it
They are using Li Titanate batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:20 pm)the article did not really put the volt down, it seemed to point out their experience with the car itself, and the fuel economy they got – granted they seem at the very bottom end of the ranges described so they may simply be driving the car quite hard.
It would have been better if they had added in comparisons in drive comfort as well, as they are trying to compare the Volt with vastly cheaper cars. Quite simply, whilst they did say the volt was quite powerful, they did not mention power of comfort when comparing the volt to other cars – they compare MPG alone – implying you can get a Jetta TDI instead of a volt as it has comparable MPG and is cheaper, but leaving out the Volt is far more comfortable, powerful, and nicer to drive than the aforementioned vehicle.
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:24 pm)I decided to read some of this Volt-hater stuff (incl Fox News garbage). I don’t think we Volt fans need to pay much attention. I think the best thing we can do is save the interviews, quotes, etc for posterity, so that we can show it/discuss it at a later time if there is ever a need to show just how far off base these idiots were. They will continue to marginalize themselves until only a fringe listens. I am reading enough and experiencing enough to know that they are accomplishing NOTHING.
I think I would be hard pressed to find anyone who has let any of these extremists help them formulate an opinion on the car. Heck, I am still trying to convince folks to stop throwing batteries in the regular trash. The folks I talk to about the Volt are pretty much a clean slate and don’t go about their lives relying on political commentary to help them decide what car to buy.
And regarding Consumer Reports- well, all of Toyota’s recalls have made many folks (to my understanding) discredit the import-centric CU commentary. Society at large, I believe, feels it has been lied to so much that folks aren’t trusting people they don’t know to make up their minds for them. Those of us who know FIRST HAND are in a much better position to influence our friends, relatives and neighbors than media ‘experts’
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:26 pm)Who cares what Rush thinks about the Volt?
What difference to me does it make if Fox News likes the Volt?
Who cares what bias Consumer Reports injects into their report?
All I really want to know is:
Will next year’s Christmas present be a Volt? Because I really am a bit sad that it did not happen this year………………..
Ho-Ho-Ho!!! Merry Christmas Everyone!!
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:35 pm)If existing electric trucks can inspire GM in the same way that Tesla inspired the Volt, a reasonable mainstream vehicle may result which addresses the original trucks’ shortcomings.
Without Maximum Bob, can the “Why can’t we do this” question still be asked at GM?
One cannot help but wonder.
.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:42 pm)Jackson,
As I recall you too live in The South so I won’t interpret your comment as a slight on my city.
We do have a lot of trucks around here, but I don’t think that’s unusual.
Actually my desire for a Voltec Pickup is not because I want one. (I don’t)
It is because pickup trucks represent the largest selling automobile segment in the US.
The #1 vehicle in sales volume year after year: Ford F-150 Pickups
And only because GM has Chevy and GMC pickups split into two (almost identical) brands.
And by the way, the #1 vehicle driven by millionaires in America: Pickup Trucks!
I really want see that huge market segment populated by Voltec powered vehicles.
Not for me. For our country.
GO VOLTEC!
(Also, Go Falcons!)
+3
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:47 pm)Go Voltec! Live long and prosper. GM has now proven the concept of Voltec by mass producing the Volt. Voltec can now be cost reduced for the Cruze and upsized for Caddies, vans and pickups. At this stage in the timeline, GM has a clear winner!
My Volt is performing flawlessly. I’ve seen some negatives about ERange in cold weather, but I need more time in mine before I opine. I’ve been driving in Sport Mode and having fun, not caring what the range is. Today my daughter drove me to my doctor’s appointment and I watched her drive away. A beautiful girl in a beautiful car that was absolutely silent and it shushed away. AMAZING!
I’m disappointed in the Fox Anchors take on the Volt. I have to agree with earlier posts these guys have been biased against GM because of the Government Bailouts. I didn’t like what happened either, but I knew the GM Engineering Team would keep things on track as long as the funding held. Great Job Fahrid, Alex and all you guys!
I still worry about the long term effects of the agreements, but if the Unions and GM Management can keep working together, we’ll see Voltec develop into platforms we’ve only dreamed of. Look at the postings about inductive charging. Future fuel sources could include CNG, NG, Propane, Hydrogen, or even Mr. Fusion! But for now, GM has done a great job of learning from the EV-1 program, integrating existing nationwide infrastructure and producing the world’s first “Transitional” car.
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:51 pm)Yes, I live very close to Atlanta (Marietta), so no slight intended. The “truck culture” extends far beyond our State lines; your comment about Sales numbers would be hard to argue against.
With more than one truck division, perhaps GM could limit it’s risk with a Voltec pickup to Chevrolet (and duplicate it to GMC if there is overwhelming response).
The only millionaire I know personally drives a pickup; and a very basic model with no frills at that (many millionaires have lots of money for a reason).
I think that GM would want to wait for stronger Voltec before taking on trucks and SUVs (or Cadillacs); but in my opinion the tech will will become stronger faster by challenging and stretching it, as opposed to sitting around and waiting for an arbitrary schedule.
At least build some test vehicles, GM; start thinking outside the Volt “box.”
.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (5:57 pm)Jackson,
The Voltec Drive would certainly work in a truck platform. My question to GM would be “what would the Voltec Drive look like to suit 75% of Pickup Drivers?” GM has targeted the Volt to a certain segment of car drivers. Has anyone seen what the target Pickup Driver would need? My guess is that a 40 mile ERange is not enough.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (6:01 pm)I strongly suspect that the millionaire domination of the pickup market is due to successful
“blue collar” entrepeneurs, but I have never seen any stats to that effect. I do know it is
vehicle widely used in small business and that is where most of America’s millionaires are
created, so I just put two and two together here.
That being said it must be determined how many miles people drive daily in pickups.
If much more that 40 miles, pickups might not be right for another few years and a longer-range battery generation.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (6:05 pm)An excellent point. If they built the small pickup which near-term Voltec technology could make possible, I think it would appeal to a lot of people (probably not “serious” users demanding a lot of towing power, but many prospective truck buyers are only looking for a daily ‘driver’ which can haul stuff from Home Depot every other weekend; buyers for which the heavy duty trucks are fuel thirsty overkill).
What about something like an updated Voltec El Camino? I think there may be a lot of pent-up demand for this kind of long-absent vehicle.
.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (6:29 pm)Have been waiting for a thread to post my Chevy Voltec sport name into the pot…
The Chevy “Bolt” and have Usain Bolt as the spokesperson.
And Sorry, but, pleeeease no El Camino anything.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (6:43 pm)“Chevy Lightning,” and forget the celebrity tie-in.
And no, not literally an El Camino; what would you call a two-seat-with-bed aero mini-truck which sits a bit lower than a traditional truck (but higher than a conventional car)? The hood could be a lot shorter with Voltec technology, for one thing.
.
+1
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:17 pm)I like the Chevy Lightning name. Every Voltec vehicle should have a name related to electricity, although Dodge already has a “Charger”.
Raymond
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:46 pm)Great to read this. Don’t know if any of my commenting has been an influence but this is definitely one my reasons for participating at GM-Volt. Not that a goal is to create EV zombies but rather bring about a well reasoned support for benefits of intelligent EV implementation. Obviously drumming up support and positively affecting GM’s decision making is a huge goal too, but hearing that some folks have come hear to learn and have decided to purchase is very rewarding in a sense.
BTW, the post on financing from a few days ago may be even better news for people in Mark’s position. If getting out of the door at $30K and under is a priority and there is a trade-in involved, then that goal may be achievable with the 0% up front loan of $7500 to be repaid when the tax credit is received.
“GM’s banking partners have formulated some creative methods for dealing with the credit such as floating the buyer a zero interest separate $7500 loan that comes due when they get their tax refund.” -http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/15/chevrolet-volt-lease-terms/
+4
Dec 20th, 2010 (7:51 pm)Many thanks, and point agreed.
Buick needs a Voltec “Electra.”
As far as instrumentation goes, the impetus should be towards making it elegant and understated, while retaining much of the functionality.
Voltec quiet seems ideally matched to the Buick identity.
~~~
I can just see the high-concept TV ad for the Lightning:
High-interest dark/purplish sky, with lightning bolt flashing near a far horizon. A silver streak as the vehicle streaks by on the desert road. Low-key voiceover:
“Chevy Lightning: Performance without the thunder.”
.
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:01 pm)XTS Platinum… the Caddy that plugs.
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:05 pm)Wouldn’t two 111 kw motors make 500 lb/ft of torque? That’s in the big rig diesel range.
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:13 pm)This concerns me greatly. If the plug-in turns out to be a high-cost option of the otherwise-identical non-plug-in (which in turn is a high-cost option of a stylistically identical STX); there could be a similar situation as with the original large-vehicle two-mode: Lots of dough for not much more go. People who want the STX for it’s panache may not give a fig for what moves it; and be just as pleased to save the money.
GM should also refrain from tying the powertrain options to more luxurious appointments; this also helped to drive a nail into the original two-mode as an option. The appeal of hybrid operation is basically incompatible with a desire for luxury (buyers of rolling plushy parlors are generally not the people who want to save gas, for whatever reason).
This may all be sidestepped if:
1) There are great efficiency improvements for the options
2) The options’ premiums are proportionately less than the old two-mode’s
3) The two hybrid versions are distinctly different models from the STX (beyond ‘badges & decals’).
I still think that Voltec should never be an “option,” but always be fielded as it’s own unique model (even if based on existing chassis families).
.
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:24 pm)… and digging much deeper into the battery pack for longer periods; with a CS-mode capable of mirroring the load without straining the engine and generator used (probably not possible with the Volt’s four-banger). BTW, I don’t know if your figure is correct; maybe someone else can confirm this.
It’s all about the batteries. A full to large-size vehicle will always need more, or suffer a much lower all-electric range.
IMO, very much less than 40 miles of AER would make any EREV a tough sell (except perhaps for a low-cost leader, in a few years, when overall Voltec costs are lower).
.
Dec 20th, 2010 (8:54 pm)You’re probably right regarding range and rural pickup owners but urban cowboys and contractors would probably fit a 30 mile range (closer to what the current usable capacity would provide) very well. For the contractors, it would be especially valuable if they had a 15kw 120/240V auxiliary output option. The current generation could only support a small pickup at best with moderate load and towing capacity for this sized pickup, albeit with compromised acceleration. The large power out capacity could make up for the other lesser abilities in some situations. I don’t think that the longer drives of rural customers would be a huge issue, however. Sure, the AER may only be 20-30 miles but the CS mileage should also be greatly improved over a standard ICE pickup. The price however is a big hurdle but for people that put a lot of miles on their pickups and/or could use a built in 15-20kw power source there would be even more value than for sedan buyers switching to the Volt.
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:08 pm)Hopefully part of the next big step forward for Voltec will be a purpose designed platform that can underpin numerous brand’s EREVs.
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:12 pm)The lower range may not be so bad if the CS mileage for such a vehicle is in the 25-30mpg range. Remember the mileage for the comparable vehicles is poor.
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:33 pm)Good points, guys. These limitations might not matter so much to drivers used to other trucks. I especially like the idea of the power take off — and not just for a truck. If the Volt’s genset (not the battery pack, GM) could be accessed through a special interface box plugged into the charge port, it would greatly add value to the car; as an emergency or off-grid generator.
BTW, new thread is up.
.
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:46 pm)“Wouldn’t two 111 kw motors make 500 lb/ft of torque? That’s in the big rig diesel range.”
Not quite. More like 9 year old 3/4 ton pickup truck diesel range. I think horsepower will become more of an issue in larger, more luxurious vehicles. The Volt, Leaf and other vehicles like them all feel fantastic from 0-40 or so but at highway speeds they would get wasted by much more mundane stuff. So unless the power density of the battery pack increases to keep the weight manageable (price skyrockets), trucks would have little use for EV power when pulling any kind of weight. Imagine the overhead on the cooling system just to cool the pack while drawing all kinds of power. It doesn’t seem to translate into larger stuff all that well.
Dec 20th, 2010 (9:58 pm)Can you help me understand this a bit better? Are you saying that there shouldn’t be a “Voltec Caddy”? I’m just a tad foggy on what you mean.
TIA.
Be well and Merry Christmas!,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!
Dec 20th, 2010 (10:17 pm)Oh, I agree with you 1000%. Been saying that power out is a fantastic app for Voltec since day one. This is a $5-10K value add for very little cost for customers that could use the feature. I’m still scratching where hair used to grow trying to figure out why GM chose not to include it thus far. I suppose they had enough to chew on and this wasn’t identified as a core feature. Hopefully they will add it as an option soon. I do hope they lead with the battery. Gas is gas, doesn’t matter to me whether it’s burned for motive or electricity generation. Use battery energy first in either case, but GM won’t see it that way with the battery warranty tied to age and miles driven.
Dec 21st, 2010 (12:05 am)There shouldn’t be a Voltec extra-cost option for an existing Cadillac (or Buick, or Chevy, or GMC) model. It should always be a unique model instead. In other words, don’t build a Voltec STX, build the Converj (or some model never sold in that division before).
Got it?
Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good drive.
.
Dec 21st, 2010 (2:03 pm)Reality is that there isn’t a pattern. The demands of the real-world include that late-night run to the drive-thru, the new movie you want to rent or buy, a run to the store for some household item, visiting friends or family… church, entertainment, recreation, coffee, groceries, kids.
Add to that the variable range caused by the influence of outside temperature, weather, and traffic, there’s no way to accurately portray an expectation with only a few data points. That’s why the EPA estimates include a YMMV disclaimer.
Of course, now that Volt is available, there shouldn’t be dependence on estimates anymore anyway. You should be switching over to providing real-world data instead.
.
Dec 22nd, 2010 (3:16 pm)I would welcome more PHEVs,and HEVs of all types.
But I am amazed that the more sophisticated people here, do not recognize that the HEVs & PHEV and an EREV are two fundamentally different power sources. A PHEV is a fixed ratio gasoline substituter and a gasoline powered extender, only.
By that I mean it uses a compound, fixed ratio of gasoline and electricity to power a car. So it is no substitute at all. It is a gasoline extender only, in so far as it get better mileage than a conventional power plant.
But a EREV is or can be a gasoline substitute, in everyday use. It is a gasoline extender in the sense it achieves good mileage too. But it need not do so. It could get 1 mile per gallon CS, and still be a fine gasoline substitute requiring the typical driver to use essentially no gasoline.
Its strategy of using all its electric miles first, always insures that it can substitute electricity for gasoline in as much as an infinite ratio like an EV; but can never strand you like an impractical EV. As presently designed, 78% of the US driving public would not need to use gasoline at all, or at most, only occasionally. No PHEV or HEV can make such a claim.
If it had a battery slightly larger but still smaller than a Leaf’s battery, 98% of American drivers would never use a drop of gasoline, in daily use. And it wouldn’t matter if it did get only 1 mile per gallon when in CS mode.
I would expect the Jackasses in the government to not understand, but I find it amazing that y’all don’t either. They speak as if 93 mpg as a gasoline extender, was all that important, when its essentially irrelevant.
The genius of the VOLT EREV architecture is that is a a no holds barred, truly transparent, essentiually a total substitute for a fossil fueled powered car.