Dec 15

Chevrolet Volt Lease Terms

 

[ad#post_ad]Today the first Volts have arrived to dealerships from Detroit, and are being picked up by customers across the nation. Today there will be 5 simultaneous deliveries including one to a retired airline pilot named Jeffrey Kaffee, in Denville, NJ who is the first overall. Kaffee traded in his Prius for the Volt. With the number of deliveries multiplying rapidly in the coming day weeks and months, people taking ownership now have to now decide whether to buy or lease the car.

At an MRSP of $41,000 the cutting-edge Volt comes in at a relatively affordable $33,500 after the $7500 federal tax credit it deducted. GM’s banking partners have formulated some creative methods for dealing with the credit such as floating the buyer a zero interest separate $7500 loan that comes due when they get their tax refund.

The lease option was created to make the car even more affordable, making the car available to a larger group of drivers.

The terms of the lease were spelled out in the Summer as $350 per month with $2500 down for a 36 month lease with 36,000 miles.

What hasn’t been known is what the car’s residual value will be at the end of the lease, and what the customer could then buy it for.

Volt marketing manager John Hughes notes that every deal “will be a little different,” and “depends on the equipment and how the deal is written.”

“There’s some variability in it,” he said. “We’ve given dealers all the parameters.”

Rather than spell out those subtleties for us and long with the myriad of disclaimers that accompany them, Hughes said it was best we “talk to dealers to ask details.”

Gordon Lai, a sales manager at Singh Chevrolet in Riverside, California, offers us the following details which he said came directly from GM:

US Bank (National)

Term: 36 Months
MSRP: $41,000.00
Selling Price: $41,000.00 [If dealer charges more, the payments change upward.]
Acquisition Fee: $695.00
Cap Cost Reduction: $2,000.00
Down Payment: $2,150.00
Balance/Amt. Financed: $37,545.00

Program Rate: 0.60

Program Residual: 43.00% (12,001 miles to 15,000 miles per year)
Low Miles Residual: 44.00% (12,000 miles or LESS per year)
Base Residual Value: $18,040.00
Federal Credit: $7,500.00
Contract Residual Value: $25,540.00

Program Payment: $349.51
Featured Payment: $350.00
First Month’s Payment: $349.51
Down Payment: $2,150.00
Security Deposit: $0.00
DUE AT LEASE SIGNING: $2,499.51* [plus fees noted below]
Advertised Due at Signing: $2,500.00

Total Monthly Payments: $12,582.36

Disposition Fee: $395.00 (Due at Lease End)

*Other Fees Due at Signing: All DMV Registration Fees, DMV Doc Fee, 8.75% Sales Tax on First Payment.

“The figures above are SPECIFICALLY for a Base Model Volt sold at MSRP only ($41,000),” said Lai.  “Add any options, dealer markups, increases in Sales Tax, etc… and the Payment goes up, or the ‘Out-of-Pocket’ down payment goes up.”

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This entry was posted on Wednesday, December 15th, 2010 at 8:11 am and is filed under Financial. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 173


  1. 1
    LeoK

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:27 am)

    These are the basic terms. The underlying lease rate is VERY attractive. The only open item to help make a decision is what the ‘lease end purchase option’ will be.

    If you are a customer who plans to drive your VOLT for 3 years and then look for something new, then the lease is definitely the way to go… provided you can acurately predict your annual mileage and calculate that into the lease.

    If you are a customer more likely to want to drive your VOLT longer than 3 years, then I would recommend looking at a purchase and consider the various financing options available.


  2. 2
    koz

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:28 am)

    Can someone clarify if under these terms the lease end buyout would be $18,040 or $25,540? Does the leasing company get the $7,500 tax credit up front or would the consumer pay $25,540 and then have to claim the credit if it is still available?


  3. 3
    Vincent

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:29 am)

    It’s a great day for America.


  4. 4
    Rashiid Amul

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:33 am)

    (click to show comment)


  5. 5
    o.jeff

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:35 am)

    http://pr-usa.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=566059&Itemid=32

    New Plug-in Electric Vehicle Sparks Excitement at Denville Dealership.

    Members of the broadcast and print media are invited to attend one of the first events featuring the highly anticipated Chevy Volt. Interview, photo and video opportunities will be available.

    WHO:
    Gearhart Chevrolet

    WHAT:
    Will receive one of the very first Chevy Volts in the New York/New Jersey metropolitan area. The new car owner will be there to take delivery of the car. The event coincides with four other simultaneous deliveries on the same day throughout the United States.

    WHERE:
    Gearhart Chevrolet, 281 Route 46 East, Denville, NJ 07834

    WHEN:
    Wednesday, December 15 at 9:00 a.m.

    SIGNIFICANCE:

    The Chevy Volt, “The Car of the Future You Can Drive Today,” is the world’s first mass-produced, plug-in electric vehicle with extended range drive capabilities; it has just been named the 2011 Motor Trend Car of the Year. Gearhart Chevrolet, Morris County’s largest-volume Chevrolet dealer, is to be one of the first sites in New York/Metro area to deliver the Volt. Gearhart Chevrolet (owned by the Schumacher-Tilton family) has been in the automobile business since 1929.

    The Volt is one of the most highly anticipated new cars to come out since the advent of hybrid automobiles. The dealership will complete its first Volt sale to Jeffrey Kaffee, a retired airline pilot, who is flying home from vacation early just to complete the purchase and receive the delivery. Mr. Kaffee will become one of the first New Jersey residents to drive this innovative car.

    If you plan to attend, please look for our on-site press representative, Caryn Starr-Gates, who will facilitate interview and photography opportunities with Mr. Kaffee as well as principals of the dealership.


  6. 6
    VoltGuy

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:35 am)

    Rashiid Amul,

    False

    Jerry


  7. 7
    doubledave

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:36 am)

    Yesss! The volts are at the dealerships. Any word if some have made it to any Austin dealerships? I left a deposit with an Austin dealer in July so I’m on the waiting list. Guess I should get my order submitted to GM real soon now or risk getting passed up in the waiting list.


  8. 8
    Airton

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:37 am)

    Actually the first drop of 9 cars is Dover, NJ (a few miles away)
    This is my #226 according to Cassens Transport, I am heading out the door in a few with camera in hand and will hopefully get a few photos of the historical moment.

    Thank you Lyle, thank you GM for all of your efforts!
    Airton Azevedo


  9. 9
    JDan

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:38 am)

    “Hello this is Prime Credit my name is Peggy” This feels like a minimum for the lease. If it is available through GM financing, then maybe. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. Please report your actual financing when you get your cars. Buyer beware ;)


  10. 10
    ClarksonCote

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:44 am)

    VoltGuy: Rashiid Amul, FalseJerry  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Really? I would have said true. My understanding is they’re never directly turned by the generator. They’re turned by the generator THROUGH a clutched electric motor, which is why GM always states an indirect mechanical connection. Right?

    Even if the wheels are sometimes turned directly by the generator rather than the generator making electricity, it’s through using an electric motor. If I’m wrong (wouldn’t be a first!), please explain the mechanical connection between the gen and the wheels that’s not using an electric motor to get there. Thanks!

    join thE REVolution


  11. 11
    Dave K.

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:45 am)

    VIN: 1G1RD6E48BU100555 Crystal Red
    Status 12/14/2010 – (3800) Order produced and vehicle is being prepared for shipping.

    Just two weeks from factory paperwork (3400) to complete. (12/01 – 12/14)
    Good going production team! Go Volt!

    =D-Volt


  12. 12
    Mark Z

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:46 am)

    That photo is spectacular. The Volt wheels are on the ground at the dealership.

    We have decided to purchase rather than lease due to tax advantages.

    Have a great day tracking and for some, driving your Volts!

    PS: Statik apologized to GM at post 151 on the 12/13 thread. Check it out!


  13. 13
    ClarksonCote

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:47 am)

    Airton: Actually the first drop of 9 cars is Dover, NJ (a few miles away)This is my #226 according to Cassens Transport, I am heading out the door in a few with camera in hand and will hopefully get a few photos of the historical moment.Thank you Lyle, thank you GM for all of your efforts!Airton Azevedo  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Thanks Airton, see if you can’t find out if that truck’s going to Medford NY (Nesenger 112 Chevy) and when it might arrive there! :) Pretty sure my car’s on that truck.

    join thE REVolution


  14. 14
    Tom

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:56 am)

    Rashiid Amul,

    It is false under certain conditions over 70 miles per hour two of the clutches can lock at the same time connecting both the ICE and electric drive motor to the wheels resulting in a increase in efficiency of around 10%. But the electric is still the main drive motor.
    Tom


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    JonP.

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:56 am)

    Rashiid Amul: Off topic.The wheels on the Volt are turned by the electric motor.They are never turned by the gas engine because it is not connected to the wheels. True or False?  (Quote)  (Reply)

    FALSE


  16. 16
    Fred Millet

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:07 am)

    On the lease, what are the financial penalties for driving over 36,000 mi? I average around 14,000 mi per year and was hoping they’d have a 45,000 mi option for the lease.


  17. 17
    Chris C.

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:10 am)

    Don’t take Rashid’s derail bait. Vote his post down and ignore please. Must we relitigate these things in every thread?


  18. 18
    ps94515

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:26 am)

    Koz, your question is worth repeating: Can someone clarify if under these terms the lease end buyout would be $18,040 or $25,540?


  19. 19
    CorvetteGuy

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:29 am)

    koz: Can someone clarify if under these terms the lease end buyout would be $18,040 or $25,540? Does the leasing company get the $7,500 tax credit up front or would the consumer pay $25,540 and then have to claim the credit if it is still available?    

    The buyout at the end should be the $18,040 since that is 44% of $41,000. The “outline” sent to the dealers showed no more information than you see above, other than a disclaimer to contact US Bank for details.


  20. 20
    vkeady

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:39 am)

    ClarksonCote:
    Really?I would have said true.My understanding is they’re never directly turned by the generator.They’re turned by the generator THROUGH a clutched electric motor, which is why GM always states an indirect mechanical connection.Right?Even if the wheels are sometimes turned directly by the generator rather than the generator making electricity, it’s through using an electric motor.If I’m wrong (wouldn’t be a first!), please explain the mechanical connection between the gen and the wheels that’s not using an electric motor to get there.Thanks!join thE REVolution    

    the engine is clutched to the generator. the generator is clutched to the planetary. if both clutches are engaged, the engine is mechanically connected to the planetary. the engine power is split between generating electricity and motive power to the planetary.
    the planetary is summing the output of the main electric motor and engine in this mode.
    So, the engine is never alone in driving the wheels, the main motor is also required. this is the wiggle room GM used to claim that the engine never directly drives the wheels even though the engine is mechanically linked to the drivetrain in this mode.


  21. 21
    CorvetteGuy

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:39 am)

    I recommend that you contact your local Chevy Dealer’s Finance Manager. Make friends with the guy. *NOTE: If you bring donuts, he will tell you what you want to know. That was the only way for me to get a copy of the summary sheet above. :)


  22. 22
    Robert

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:41 am)

    I cant believe the first Volts are so close to me… but I bought mine close to the city thinking thats where they would go first :(


  23. 23
    statik

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:41 am)

    Mark Z: That photo is spectacular. The Volt wheels are on the ground at the dealership.We have decided to purchase rather than lease due to tax advantages.Have a great day tracking and for some, driving your Volts!PS: Statik apologized to GM at post 151 on the 12/13 thread. Check it out!  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Yupe, I got the media advisory from GM on the deliveries for today last night. December 15th…made it with a couple weeks to spare. Good news all around this month. /I’m a man of my word, (=


  24. 24
    barry252

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:45 am)

    Tom: Rashiid Amul, It is false under certain conditions over 70 miles per hour two of the clutches can lock at the same time connecting both the ICE and electric drive motor to the wheels resulting in a increase in efficiency of around 10%. But the electric is still the main drive motor.Tom  (Quote)  (Reply)

    The ICE drives the wheels via the transmission only when driving above 70mph in CS mode. If driving BEV, the generator reverses to a drive motor and assists the main motor at speeds over 70mph.

    The US Bank lease deal seems very attractive to me. There are stories of dealers offering other lease terms. Does GM require dealers to use US Bank or are dealers free to make their own deals?


  25. 25
    MarkA

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:56 am)

    Thanks Lyle!


  26. 26
    MarkA

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:11 am)

    CorvetteGuy,

    Thank you, sir!


  27. 27
    Rashiid Amul

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:14 am)

    Thanks everyone for you good answers.
    I should have known this one.


  28. 28
    koz

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:18 am)

    Airton: Actually the first drop of 9 cars is Dover, NJ (a few miles away)This is my #226 according to Cassens Transport, I am heading out the door in a few with camera in hand and will hopefully get a few photos of the historical moment.Thank you Lyle, thank you GM for all of your efforts!Airton Azevedo  (Quote)  (Reply)

    WAAAY COOOOL!!!


  29. 29
    evnow

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:20 am)

    Acquisition Fee: $695.00
    Cap Cost Reduction: $2,000.00
    Down Payment: $2,150.00
    Balance/Amt. Financed: $37,545.00

    What is the capital cost reduction ? Is that a reduction by GM or the buyer has to pay it ?


  30. 30
    MarkA

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:24 am)

    In reviewing the above lease details, it looks like the federal rebate is being assigned at the end of the lease as a reduction of the purchase price. I recall an article way back where Nissan was applying the federal credit up front, thereby lowering the monthly lease payment. This seems like a better way to go, unless I am mistaken. Do you only get the federal tax credit if you buy the car? I guess that makes sense, but then that kind of messes with the Nissan deal, assuming I remembered correctly.


  31. 31
    kdawg

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:24 am)

    o.jeff: The dealership will complete its first Volt sale to Jeffrey Kaffee, a retired airline pilot, who is flying home from vacation early just to complete the purchase and receive the delivery. Mr. Kaffee will become one of the first New Jersey residents to drive this innovative car.

    Im glad its not a “Jersey Shore” person. It’s a “Volt-thing, they just wouldn’t understand”.


  32. 32
    Jeremy Neish

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:25 am)

    I’ve never leased a car before, what are the main “gotchas” to watch out for. Obviously, going over your miles is one, what is the penalty? I don’t really understand the lease end buyout… does this mean that at the end of the lease I have the option to buy for that price or give it back to GM? Info about any other gotchas would be appreciated. I have had BAD experiences with commercial leases, so I’m skeptical.


  33. 33
    Brian

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:39 am)

    I’m not much of a fan of lease agreements, your paying alot to drive the thing and nothing to show for it after three years. The real key to the deal is how much are you going to pay for the car at the end three years if you want to keep it. If the car ends up being a big hit resale value will stay high and the lease company makes out big. Lease company holds all the cards and they are not going to help you save any money!!!


  34. 34
    Tim Hart

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:49 am)

    It will be so great to see Volts out on the road. For a while it will be a big deal to see one, hopefully in the not to distant future there will be too many to count! I’ll probably have the first one in my area (SE Iowa). Some of my friends are as excited as I am about me getting one. It will be fun to get the Volt story out to the community.


  35. 35
    CorvetteGuy

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:50 am)

    Fred Millet,

    The summary sheet did not show the $ per mile overage.


  36. 36
    RDOCA

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:57 am)

    CorvetteGuy: Fred Millet, The summary sheet did not show the $ per mile overage.  (Quote)  (Reply)

    But it did show that if you chose 15k up front it would reduce the res by 1% which is about $410 or about $11.39 per month increase plus tax—or 5 cents per mile


  37. 37
    DonC

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:03 am)

    Jeremy Neish: I’ve never leased a car before, what are the main “gotchas” to watch out for. Obviously, going over your miles is one, what is the penalty? I don’t really understand the lease end buyout… does this mean that at the end of the lease I have the option to buy for that price or give it back to GM?

    Short answer is yes you have the buying option. Under a lease you just pay interest on the part of the car you’ve borrowed and the depreciation of the car. My suggestion is to do some research and get comfortable with how a lease works. There are many potential “gotchas” and you do need to pay attention. If you do a lease can work fine.

    Brian: I’m not much of a fan of lease agreements, your paying alot to drive the thing and nothing to show for it after three years.

    Since your monthly payments will be much lower if you lease rather than purchase, what you have to show at the end of the lease is a lot more money in your bank account. What is better? $18K in your bank account with an option to buy the car for $18K or the car?

    In the ordinary case my presumption is that leasing is every bit as good as buying unless you’re leasing because you can’t afford to buy — and that exception has more to do with money management than anything else. Financially the lease/buy choice is usually a wash — just depends on what kind of deal you can get. Sometimes you can get a better deal to buy. Sometimes the lease is a better deal.

    For new technology like this I’d strongly lean towards leasing. Lots of risk both for the technology and for new models. As an example, if you think leasing is always a bad idea, in the summer of 2008, would you have rather owned a Ford Explorer or be at the end of your lease where you could turn one in and buy the same car for $$$$ less than your buyout price.


  38. 38
    DonC

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:13 am)

    evnow: What is the capital cost reduction ? Is that a reduction by GM or the buyer has to pay it ?

    Capital cost reduction and down payments measure different things. Cap reduction is used to compute payments based on the difference between the acquisition price (minus cap reduction) and the buyout price. The down payment tells you how much you have to pony up to take the car home.

    I don’t know how it could work if the down payment didn’t include the cap reduction. Where would the money show up? It can’t show up in the monthly payments because those assume cap reduction has been paid. It can’t show up in the buyout. So it has to show up in the down payment. This is the way I’ve always seen it work.


  39. 39
    DonC

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:17 am)

    RDOCA: But it did show that if you chose 15k up front it would reduce the res by 1% which is about $410 or about $11.39 per month increase plus tax—or 5 cents per mile

    Bingo! +1. Nice job.

    Note as Leon has been telling us, buying the miles up front is always a lot cheaper. My guess is that if you’re driving close to 12K miles now you’ll drive 15K in the Volt. All those trips where you can take either of two cars will turn into a Volt trip because it’s so much cheaper per mile.


  40. 40
    cheifsfan

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:19 am)

    I wonder if there is an additional cost for the 15k miles/yr or if it is just a reduction is residual…. I also wonder what the cost per $1000 for options is going to add to the monthly payment?


  41. 41
    Streetlight

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:25 am)

    VOLT (Job 2) sold for $225,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/14/autos/chevy_volt_auction/?iid=MPM


  42. 42
    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:36 am)

    evnow: What is the capital cost reduction ? Is that a reduction by GM or the buyer has to pay it ?

    Yesterday, my finance manager said the $2,000 Cap Cost Reduction is not coming from the Customer. Since some areas of the outline are unclear, I have just made another trip to the donut shop… I will try to get fresh answers to these additional questions later today. :)


  43. 43
    flmark

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:41 am)

    Anyone noticed anything?

    No one in this forum is claiming to be one of these first Volt takers.

    While it is still a bit early and I am sure some here will start chiming in soon, the silence is deafening- and REASSURING!! Sometimes we here feel like we are the only ones to beat the drum. Yet, the Volt message is apparently getting out far and wide beyond we here who are obsessing about it.

    GM PAY ATTENTION!! If this much demand is coming in from the non-fanatics, you had better crank up production real fast. The public-at-large is waiting.


  44. 44
    Raymondjram

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:54 am)

    Streetlight: VOLT (Job 2) sold for $225,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/14/autos/chevy_volt_auction/?iid=MPM  (Quote)  (Reply)

    I posted this yesterday (post #39) at 6:13 PM as soon as it ended. It was at $225,000 for the last eight minutes. But that is still a lot of money for the first Volt to sell.

    I am very happy for all the fellow members who will receive their Volts this week and this month. Please remember to post your reactions here, favorable or not, so the next buyers can gain some experience and inspiration until the Volt arrives in our market areas next year.
    Congratulations to Lyle Dennis, GM, Chevrolet, and to everyone here!

    Raymond


  45. 45
    Tagamet

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:54 am)

    statik: Airton

    AMEN on all counts! It’s a fantastic day for all of us! We’ve had many many “go rounds”, but it was (almost) always civil and with good humor.
    Congrats to Statik on founding a great site (though I know the site has been inherited by someone else). *LOT’S* of passion in the Leaf fans, and *that’s* a great thing! I think that almost all of us are rooting for the electrification of transportation, and should therefore support every effort to hit the streets.
    Thanks again Statik for the incredibly important role you’re playing.

    Be well and believe,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!


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    pjkPA

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:56 am)

    Can you use GM card credits… that would bring the net price to $30,000.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:57 am)

    cheifsfan: I wonder if there is an additional cost for the 15k miles/yr or if it is just a reduction is residual…. I also wonder what the cost per $1000 for options is going to add to the monthly payment?  (Quote)  (Reply)

    It should just be the res change on 15k miles –on a 3 year lease you can ballpark about $30 per thousand on cost to add options or to put less down.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:08 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Yesterday, my finance manager said the $2,000 Cap Cost Reduction is not coming from the Customer. Since some areas of the outline are unclear, I have just made another trip to the donut shop… I will try to get fresh answers to these additional questions later today.   (Quote)  (Reply)

    Please clarify on how this is set up as I can’t get it to work on a lease calculator. It looks like the fin amount of $37545 comes from 41k plus af of $695 less 2150 down and 2000 cap cost reduction? Who pays the cap cost reduction? THe 2499.51 looks to have first payment and 2150 which must include the AF and some cap cost and no security dep? Is the money factor .0006 or 1.44% and how is the 7500 handled? It has a disposition fee (nasty) (turn in fee) of $395 i see.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:11 pm)

    RDOCA: Can’t I just assume a residual of 43% on every $1000 for options? I was thinking more along the lines of $17 per thousand than $30…. That sucks if it ends up being $30/month more per $1000


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    CorvetteGuy

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:12 pm)

    ATTENTION! Here is the BIG answer:

    I have verification that when the Customer wants to BUY the Volt at the end of the lease, the “Contract Residual Value” of $25,540.00 is the Price.

    The $7,500.00 Tax Credit is being applied as part of the Down Payment in addition to your $2,499.51 “Out-of-Pocket”… This is why your Monthly Payment is much lower than it normally would be for a $41,000 car lease.

    My finance manager says, “…you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you take the $7500 up front in the Lease, you can’t take it again when you purchase the vehicle at the end.”

    Sorry that my guess was wrong. That’s why we have a finance manager (and he gets paid a lot better than me to be sure).


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:16 pm)

    Another answer: The $2,000 “Capitalized Cost Reduction (CCR) / Lease Cash is coming from GM, NOT the customer.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:18 pm)

    RDOCA:

    I got the numbers to come out to exactly $350 a month based on the numbers above. I used the MSRP – $2,150 down payment – Cap Cost Reduction: $2,000.00 + Acquisition Fee: $695.00.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:20 pm)

    Another answer: This Lease is through US Bank only, and is not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Other lenders may be able to Lease the Volt, but it unknown how they will apply the $7500… Call your own bank or credit union.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:20 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Can you get the added cost to the monthly payment per $1000 of options and verify if their are any other upfront cost for the 15k mile lease besides the lower residual?

    Thanks!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:25 pm)

    cheifsfan: RDOCA:I got the numbers to come out to exactly $350 a month based on the numbers above. I used the MSRP – $2,150 down payment – Cap Cost Reduction: $2,000.00 + Acquisition Fee: $695.00.  (Quote)  (Reply)

    are you using 44% res and .0006 money factor? I get $362.32


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    Mitch

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:29 pm)

    Rashiid Amul: Off topic.The wheels on the Volt are turned by the electric motor.They are never turned by the gas engine because it is not connected to the wheels. True or False?  (Quote)  (Reply)

    My Understanding is that there is a connection so the ICE can ASSIST in driving the wheels, but is incapable of doing so by itself, an eletric motor is REQUIRED. it is an efficiency improvement application only.

    So if you are 1/2 full or 1/2 empty will determine if this is true or false. I read it as true. because I can run a volt without the ICE, but I cannot without the electric drive.

    EDIT: see you thanked people already


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:30 pm)

    cheifsfan: CorvetteGuy: Can you get the added cost to the monthly payment per $1000 of options and verify if their are any other upfront cost for the 15k mile lease besides the lower residual?Thanks!  (Quote)  (Reply)

    In the calculator on the lease I got 362.32 I just put 42k instead of 41k and the lease changed to 390.70 or a additional $28.38 for the extra 1k


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    Raymondjram

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:36 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: ATTENTION! Here is the BIG answer:I have verification that when the Customer wants to BUY the Volt at the end of the lease, the “Contract Residual Value” of $25,540.00 is the Price.The $7,500.00 Tax Credit is being applied as part of the Down Payment in addition to your $2,499.51 “Out-of-Pocket”… This is why your Monthly Payment is much lower than it normally would be for a $41,000 car lease.My finance manager says, “…you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you take the $7500 up front in the Lease, you can’t take it again when you purchase the vehicle at the end.”Sorry that my guess was wrong. That’s why we have a finance manager (and he gets paid a lot better than me to be sure).  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Although I cannot buy a Volt yet, I financed my GM autos though GMAC (now known as Ally). Can you ask your manager if Ally has any special deals for financing the Volt? This can be useful for all future Volt buyers, like myself.

    Raymond


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    coffeetime

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:40 pm)

    Disclaimer: Dont’ shoot the messenger, but Dave Ramsey’s “The Total Money Makeover” book talks about car leases (he refers to a lease as a “fleece”) on pgs. 34 thru 36. Here’s an interesting paragraph: “Smart Money magazine quotes the National Auto Dealers Assocation (NADA) as stating the average new car purchased for cash makes the dealer an $82 profit. When the dealer can get you to finance with them, they sell the financing contract and make an average of $775 per car! But if they can get you to fleece the car, the dealer can sell that fleece to the local bank or GMAC, Ford Motor Credit, Toyota Credit, etc., for an average of $1,300! The typical car dealer makes their money in the finance office and the shop, not in the sale of new cars.”

    The chapter on leases begins with Myth: Leasing a car is what sophisticated people do. You should lease things that go down in value and take the tax advantage. Truth: Consumer advocates, noted experts, and a good calculator will confirm that the car lease is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle.

    I’m just throw’n it out there :-)


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    George McDermand

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:44 pm)

    (click to show comment)


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (12:58 pm)

    coffeetime,

    I agree with you. All of my personal vehicles have been purchased (six GM autos and one Ford Mustang), and my wife had a Volvo with a lease because her company gave her a very good vehicle allowance. After she left her job, I had to return the Volvo. The bank lessor (the largest and greediest bank in Puerto Rico – with a “popular” name) claimed a very large debt because the depreciated value of the Volvo was less than the residual, so I had to pay over $30,000 for a vehicle without any ownership. I changed my bank accounts. My last two GM vehicles were purchased and financed through GMAC at zero percent interest.

    Raymond


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    LGA

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:14 pm)

    VoltGuy: Rashiid Amul,
    FalseJerry    

    Who cares?


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:31 pm)

    George McDermand: Although I love the Volt and will most likely BUY one does anyone really trust GM when it come to a lease after the EV-1 fiasco?    

    Don’t want to take this on a negative slant but I thought the lease of those DID NOT have an option to buy at the end. This is different it seems since you can purchase at the end via the lease contract.

    P.S. OT – Please add your google maps colored marker when you order (blue), in transite (blue truck), or receive (green) your Volt. That’ll be cool to see!
    http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5885-Tracking-Volt-Orders-via-Google-maps
    .


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:34 pm)

    Raymondjram: coffeetime, I agree with you. All of my personal vehicles have been purchased (six GM autos and one Ford Mustang), and my wife had a Volvo with a lease because her company gave her a very good vehicle allowance. After she left her job, I had to return the Volvo. The bank lessor (the largest and greediest bank in Puerto Rico – with a “popular” name) claimed a very large debt because the depreciated value of the Volvo was less than the residual, so I had to pay over $30,000 for a vehicle without any ownership. I changed my bank accounts. My last two GM vehicles were purchased and financed through GMAC at zero percent interest.Raymond  (Quote)  (Reply)

    All leases are now closed end leases meaning you get the buyout price at lease signing and you have the right to buy at that price or give it back no matter what the value is at lease end unless you trash the car. Then you pay the damages. If the interest rate is good and the residual is fair a lease can be a good choice. If the bank puts the res to high then you pay less and it is to your favor and If he puts it to low he won’t get people to lease as it will be too expensive. It is a fact they charge a acquisition fee and that has to be considered. If you finance and the car is worth less than the residual of a lease you take the hit but if you have a lease the bank does.


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    MetrologyFirst

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:36 pm)

    Off Topic Breaking News: (sort of)

    Several Volts ON THE LOT at Criswell Chevy, Gaithersburg, MD. I counted four.

    Good day to be an American.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:41 pm)

    coffeetime: car lease is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle

    So I’ve been told. I’ve never got into a lease because of the 22k+ miles I drive per year. It never made sense in the past.

    In this case, though, GM is making it very attractive. You’re basically driving the car for ~$350/month (excluding estimated consumables and maintenance) which is a heck of a lot less than buying a $34k car outright. Even at zero-percent and 60 months, the payment alone would be ~$525. (assuming you push the $7500 off some how and paid the same $2500 down).

    The downsides for me are:

    1. I would have to keep it under 12,000 miles per year, meaning I’d have to drive another car a LOT.
    2. You can’t modify a leased car since the leasing company owns the thing. No cool wheels, no paint treatments, no chip tweaks, no nothing.
    3. You lose the advantage of driving the car past it’s initial cost (like more than 6 years) thereby getting more miles with zero payments. (Maintenance goes up a little though.)
    4. Leasing usually requires that you take it to the dealer to get maintenance.

    It probably makes a lot of sense for me to wait until someone else lurches through the lease and buy the car as a cream-puff certified pre-owned deal. I can’t see this car being worth more than 17-20k as a three-year-old. (That’s not a slam against Volt. Most domestic cars lose 1/2 their initial value in three years.)


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:44 pm)

    RDOCA,

    RDOCA:

    Yes i used a 44% res and .0006 money factor? Not sure where we are off lol. In regards to changing the 41k to 42k I added a 44% residual for the $1000 in options onto the base residual cost to bring it down to $17. Maybe there is 0 residual on the options but that would be kind of crappy. I wouldn’t doubt it thought. I have never leased so I don’t know if the residual changes for options added to the car…. thoughts?


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:48 pm)

    statik:
    Yupe, I got the media advisory from GM on the deliveries for today last night.December 15th…made it with a couple weeks to spare.Good news all around this month. /I’m a man of my word, (=    

    We never doubted you for even a moment, Statik.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:57 pm)

    I thought that when you leased the Volt, the dealership would get the tax credit from the government. So, if that is so (and I don’t know it is) it would mean they would get two sets of $7,500 payments. One from the government, up front, and one from you, if you purchase the leased Volt, at the back end. Am I off base? This is, after all, automobile finance accounting which we all know is the highest level accounting known to mankind.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (1:58 pm)

    Chris C.

    It’s probably not even him. It’s not his way of doing things.


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    Chuck B

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:00 pm)

    Does anyone yet know how much car insurance would be for a Volt?


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:01 pm)

    N Riley: it would mean they would get two sets of $7,500 payments.

    No. There is only one tax credit of $7,500. When you buy the car at the end you are buying a used car. No rebates there.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:02 pm)

    Now I wonder, will GM let me use my GM CARD (the original one that allows $500 x 7 yr accumulation before rolling off the 1st year) = $3500 to any of the Volt/electricified products they are coming out with? I sure hope so. Does anyone know by chance based on experience or knowledge already obtained? And I mean to the purchase of one not lease.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:03 pm)

    cheifsfan: Yes i used a 44% res and .0006 money factor?

    I am told the ‘Money Factor’ is 0.00025 which equals the 0.6% Rate.


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    Airton

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:03 pm)

    Well Lyle you were right! Denville, NJ was the first delivery.
    But only because of a last minute call to the driver from GM to go there and not Dover, got this info from the driver himself (Great guy btw) the media was all setup at Denville and someone pulled strings there.

    Anyway got my Volt! (at Ayers Chevrolet Dover, NJ getting cleaned up and ready)
    sorry for the bad pics but I think that’s your Volt Lyle (over the cab in the front) my car is the very last one (because it was supposed to be the first one off) covered in road grime and salt.
    photo.jpgphoto1.jpgphoto2.jpgphoto3.jpgphoto4.jpg


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:09 pm)

    I am in Texas. I have my order with an Austin Dealership. If you don’t have an official order and status, then you may want to check my post under Texas Deliveries. My dealership still has two cars available if you hurry. It requires a 1000 deposit. You may default on your deposit you have, so check on that. Please call my salesman, Phillip, if you do and tell him I sent him your way. Details of the cars are in my post. These cars are spect orders and are currently at 3400 status. Ours are expected either end of Dec or Beginning of January. I don’t want to encourage you to change though if you already have a good thing going. Just wanted to share with others.


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    CaptJackSparrow

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:21 pm)

    Ahhhhhhhh!!!!

    Too many numbers, too many numbers!!!! my heads starting to hurt!!!
    I need to get a few beers and come back.

    /big props to CorvetteGuy for answering everyone!!!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:23 pm)

    Airton,

    Awesome!

    Everyone out there who gets a Volt, please feel free to email me (chevyvolt@gmail.com) a write-up with some photos and your initial driving impressions. I’ll be glad to post it as a frontpage story.

    Also, you can contribute your experiences and stories on the Volt Ownership forum: http://gm-volt.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?16-Volt-Ownership-Forum

    Finally the dawn of a new era has arrived.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:27 pm)

    RDOCA:
    are you using 44% res and .0006 money factor? I get $362.32    

    Money factor is 0.00025. 0.6 is percentage APR.

    Money factor = APR/2400


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    N Riley

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:31 pm)

    Cari,

    Where are you in Texas?


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:33 pm)

    Iman: Now I wonder,will GM let me use my GM CARD (the original one that allows $500 x 7 yr accumulation before rolling off the 1st year) = $3500 to any of the Volt/electricified products they are coming out with?I sure hope so.Does anyone know by chance based on experience or knowledge already obtained?And I mean to the purchase of one not lease.    

    I’ve had a GM card since about the time they were first introduced (circa 1992 I think). Thus far I’ve been able to get my full accumulation applied to all my GM vehicle purchases along the way. In recent years there has usually been an artificial GM card rebate ceiling placed on certain cars (for example, no more than $1,000 on a Corvette purchase), but because I have an OLD GM card, it ends up being “grandfathered” such that my full accumulation must be accepted toward the purchase price. Why? Because originally, the GM card was marketed as “5% back, no ifs, ands, or buts!” Sweet, eh!!! On one Corvette purchase, the dealer called me the next day and said we had to redo the purchase contract because their paperwork bounced at GM when the dealer only applied $1,000 of my full $3,500 accumulation toward the purchase!

    So I’m thinking, if you have an old GM card, they will have no choice but to take the full accumulation toward the Volt, regardless of whether purchase or lease. Anyone else know for sure??


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:34 pm)

    Airton: Anyway got my Volt!

    Good for you Airton!!! Keep us informed with both your likes and dis-likes. Congratulations!

    Looks like your soon next Lyle!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:35 pm)

    Airton: Well Lyle you were right! Denville, NJ was the first delivery.
    But only because of a last minute call to the driver from GM to go there and not Dover, got this info from the driver himself (Great guy btw) the media was all setup at Denville and someone pulled strings there.

    Anyway got my Volt! (at Ayers Chevrolet Dover, NJ getting cleaned up and ready)
    sorry for the bad pics but I think that’s your Volt Lyle (over the cab in the front) my car is the very last one (because it was supposed to be the first one off) covered in road grime and salt.

    Great on-the-spot reporting, Airton! And congrats on your Volt!!! Because there’s only one Charcoal metallic Volt on the truck, the one over the cab as you said, I’m sure you’re right that it’s Lyle’s. So Lyle, congrats in advance. I’m looking forward to initial reactions from both of you!

    /Interesting that the OnStar, Environmental & Buyer’s Guide stickers are so prominently displayed on the rear window; but we already knew the main sticker (with the EPA efficiency sticker incorporated in it) was too big for the back window, so it had go on the front. Wish I could read the rear window’s stickers —could you get/post a better pic after they’re removed, Airton?


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:37 pm)

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:38 pm)

    So, Lyle, now that your Volt is being delivered, what do you do with the one you are “testing” for Chevrolet? If you would like, I could fly up to NY and pick it up and finish the testing for you. Mississippi at this time of year offers a very good testing environment. Just clear it with GM and let me know. I’m serious….


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:47 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: ATTENTION! Here is the BIG answer:I have verification that when the Customer wants to BUY the Volt at the end of the lease, the “Contract Residual Value” of $25,540.00 is the Price.The $7,500.00 Tax Credit is being applied as part of the Down Payment in addition to your $2,499.51 “Out-of-Pocket”… This is why your Monthly Payment is much lower than it normally would be for a $41,000 car lease.My finance manager says, “…you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you take the $7500 up front in the Lease, you can’t take it again when you purchase the vehicle at the end.”Sorry that my guess was wrong. That’s why we have a finance manager (and he gets paid a lot better than me to be sure).    

    Get some more donuts… This doesn’t add up.

    2500.00 due at signing (includes first payment)
    12232.85 total of 35 more payments (not 36!)
    25540.00 contract residual
    ———-
    40272.85 Total of all payments to buy car.
    2000.00 GM cap cost reduction
    ———-
    42272.85 Total.

    *** Where’s the $7500??? ***

    figure it with the base residual of 18040 and you get a more reasonable number of 34772.85 including the tax credit.

    There’s a *little* discount of the $2000 cap cost reduction minus the $695 acquisition fee = $1305 but that’s a far cry from $7500!


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    nasaman

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:49 pm)

    Here’s a snapshot that speaks for itself: a man with a broad Volt smile even before he drives it home!

    bilde?Site=C4&Date=20101215&Category=BUSINESS0101&ArtNo=101215006&Ref=V1&Profile=1318&MaxW=600&MaxW=800&q=50

    Jeff Kaffee, of Parsippany, N.J., smiles as he takes delivery of the first Chevy Volt at Gearhart Chevrolet in Denville, N.J., on Wednesday. (ANDRE J. JACKSON/Detroit Free Press)


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    CMull

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:50 pm)

    I agree +1 for Raymondjram: Please remember to post your reactions here, favorable or not, so the next buyers can gain some experience and inspiration until the Volt arrives in our market areas next year.

    Personally, I am not in one of the first market areas to get a Volt. I have money down at my local dealer and am 12 on the wait list. Yes, folks, number 12 on a wait list in a non-primary market! Does this tell us anything here we don’t already know? Please ramp up production on this vehicle – there is extraordinary demand!

    Yes, thank you Lyle for all you continue to do!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (2:59 pm)

    (Followup article on the smiling first Volt owner pictured in my post #87 – note what he traded)…

    DENVILLE, N.J. — The first customer has received a Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric car.

    Just before 9 a.m. today, Jeff Kaffee of Parsippany, N.J., took the key to his silver Volt. The car had left General Motors’ Detroit-Hamtramck plant early Monday evening and arrived Tuesday night at Gearhart Chevrolet in Denville, N.J.

    “The future is here, and America is back in the game,” dealer Judy Schumacher-Tilton said as she gave Kaffee the key.

    The first Volt delivery comes nearly four years after GM first revealed the Volt at the Detroit auto show. The first Nissan Leaf, a pure electric car and a rival of the Volt, was delivered this weekend.

    Kaffee flew home Monday from a vacation in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., when he heard the car would be ready today. He traded in a Toyota Prius hybrid he bought in 2005.*

    “I considered that the best car at the time,” said Kaffee, a former Air Force and airline pilot who works in real estate. “I like leading-edge technology. … The Prius is a fine car, but this is definitely the next step forward.”

    The first five trucks carrying a total of 45 Volts left Monday for metro New York City and Washington, D.C. GM said it expected 160 Volts to ship this week to initial launch markets, which also include Austin, Texas, and locations in California.

    /*Read what another 2005 Prius owner interested in a Volt just posted on Facebook in my post #90

    //Read more: Chevrolet Volt delivered to first customer | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20101215/BUSINESS0101/101215006/Chevrolet-Volt-delivered-to-first-customer#ixzz18DDu5d5X


  90. 90
    nasaman

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:04 pm)

    “I’d like to jettison my poorly engineered 2005 Prius (53k miles).

    Problems?

    Rattles and squeaks from day one.
    …Windows designed to flop around in their tracks.
    ABS turns on too rapidly.
    Traction control always turns on too rapidly.
    Poor ergonomics with the radio.
    Poor ergonomics with the display dash (shorter drivers see a reflection from it in the windshield).
    Doors that won’t stay open reliably (started failing around 30k miles)
    Failed HID leveling sensor at 23k miles (design failure, o-ring seal done incorrectly).
    Failed battery (not the one that powers the car).
    Pistons to hold up rear hatch are mostly failed.
    Tires were poor in rain/snow.
    Paint did not cover all parts of car, in particular the front pillars.

    In essence the engineering of this car is poor. This is my first, and last Toyota. I am going back to GM now, as I have had much better experiences with GM (except for one truck, design problem, and then a dealer problem).” – Damon Michaels, Facebook 12/15/10


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    flmark

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:05 pm)

    sparks: I’ve had a GM card since about the time they were first introduced (circa 1992 I think). Thus far I’ve been able to get my full accumulation applied to all my GM vehicle purchases along the way. In recent years there has usually been an artificial GM card rebate ceiling placed on certain cars (for example, no more than $1,000 on a Corvette purchase), but because I have an OLD GM card, it ends up being “grandfathered” such that my full accumulation must be accepted toward the purchase price. Why? Because originally, the GM card was marketed as “5% back, no ifs, ands, or buts!” Sweet, eh!!! On one Corvette purchase, the dealer called me the next day and said we had to redo the purchase contract because their paperwork bounced at GM when the dealer only applied $1,000 of my full $3,500 accumulation toward the purchase!So I’m thinking, if you have an old GM card, they will have no choice but to take the full accumulation toward the Volt, regardless of whether purchase or lease. Anyone else know for sure??  (Quote)  (Reply)

    While I don’t know FOR SURE, I would lay money on it. I, too, have the old GM card and run into the same ignorance at the dealer that you did. The program is very simple and specifically excluded only Saturn. Since GM chose to brand the Volt a Chevy, this old GM card ($500/yr up to 7 yrs for ANY model) had better allow me to cash it all in. They are BOUND to this agreement by limiting me to the $500 when they amended the program several years ago.


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    DonC

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:07 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: That’s why we have a finance manager (and he gets paid a lot better than me to be sure). 

    These numbers aren’t adding up.

    1. You’ve said the cap reduction is separate from the down payment. Those are $4000 more or less.
    2. You have the $7500 credit which US Bank gets.

    This means the $41,000 car is now at $29,500.

    3. You make payments of $12,600.

    If $10,000 of that amount is for depreciation (less actually but it’s a round number) then you’re looking at a residual of $19,500. So it seems that you’d be paying $350 a month to lease a $29,500 car and you’d have buy out price of $25,500 after 36 months.

    You’re not counting the tax credit twice if it comes off the purchase price and the depreciation payment are credited against this lower amount. IOW it’s not a $41,000 car after the tax credit and the cap reduction and the downpayment. After these things it’s a $29,540 car.

    Could be wrong but that’s how I’d look at it.


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    Nelson

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:07 pm)

    nasaman,

    What a shame they had to ruin the front bumber with a plate.

    NPNS!


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    CorvetteGuy

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:08 pm)

    Jay: Get some more donuts… This doesn’t add up.

    Don’t kill the messenger.
    I’ve just reported what’s on the summary sheet, line by line.
    I did mention the disclaimer at the bottom of the page, “Please call US Bank with any questions on how to calculate the lease.”


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:11 pm)

    CorvetteGuy,

    Any problems with selling a Volt to a customer from out-of-state (Mississippi)? Would your dealership do that and are any available? I have the cash in hand.


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    Rooster

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:14 pm)

    So in layman’s terms on the lease.

    GM is selling you a base Volt for $41,000

    You are paying US Bank $2500 at the lease signing, plus $350 X 36 months, or:
    $2500 + $12,600 = $15,100 over 36 months

    The contract buy out is $25,540,

    And you will owe $41,000 – $15,100 = $25,900

    US Bank will fill a claim against the Gov’t for the $7500 tax credit, and will use $360 of that tax credit and apply it to the balance on your lease: i.e., $25,900 – $360 = $25,540. They will pocket $7,140 profit on the deal…assuming you purchase the vehicle at the end of the lease for $25,540…which I’m sure they’d loan you at 5-6% annual interest for another 48-60 months.


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    Mark Z

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:15 pm)

    Airton    

    Thanks Airton for a great report and the detailed photos. Enjoy your Volt!

    More excitement in the forum as Volts for California have been loaded onto Cassens haulers for the railhead. Those VIN numbers are displaying data on Cassens web site.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:18 pm)

    Rooster,

    Seems like the bank is making out like a bandit! If you plan on purchasing at the end of the lease, best to purchase up front. Leasing is ok only if you turn the car in and go for another vehicle at the end of the lease. Otherwise, smart financial thinkers will pick your pocket. So many wherefors and whatfors that a “layman” can’t keep up with the double talk.


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    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:25 pm)

    Jay: *** Where’s the $7500??? ***

    The $7,500.00 Tax Credit is being applied as part of the Down Payment in addition to your $2,499.51 “Out-of-Pocket”… This is why your Monthly Payment is much lower than it normally would be for a $41,000 car lease.

    US Bank says, “US Bank receives the tax credit directly and passes the value through to the customer in the form of residual support ($7,500 is added to the Residual Value)”

    Example>

    MSRP $41,000
    36mo% X 44% (low mileage)
    Base Residual Value = $18,040
    Credit + $7,500
    Contract Residual Value = $25,540

    You guys know exactly as much as I do at this point.


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    Dave K.

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:26 pm)

    Airton: Denville, NJ was the first delivery…got my Volt!

    Merry Christmas!

    AirtonVoltDelivered.jpg?t=1292444675


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:27 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Don’t kill the messenger.I’ve just reported what’s on the summary sheet, line by line.I did mention the disclaimer at the bottom of the page, “Please call US Bank with any questions on how to calculate the lease.”  (Quote)  (Reply)

    I put in 41k selling price $695 AF 7500gov–2150 down–2000cap cost reduction 18040 res or 44% –.00025 money factor–36 mo and get 345.49 –why am I 4.02 low?


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:28 pm)

    N Riley: Seems like the bank is making out like a bandit! If you plan on purchasing at the end of the lease, best to purchase up front. Leasing is ok only if you turn the car in and go for another vehicle at the end of the lease. Otherwise, smart financial thinkers will pick your pocket. So many wherefors and whatfors that a “layman” can’t keep up with the double talk.

    That’s true for any vehicle that you lease and then buy at the end. But people do it so they can get a nicer vehicle for a lower monthly payment.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:33 pm)

    CorvetteGuy:
    That’s true for any vehicle that you lease and then buy at the end. But people do it so they can get a nicer vehicle for a lower monthly payment.    

    Yes, that may be true, but it bites them in the butt at purchase time after the lease is over. Plus financing terms would not be as good because it would be financing a used car. Just does not make sense to lease if you even want to seriously consider keeping it.

    Did you see my other post where I ask you about purchasing a Volt in Texas when I am from Mississippi?


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    Tagamet

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:37 pm)

    MetrologyFirst: Off Topic Breaking News: (sort of)Several Volts ON THE LOT at Criswell Chevy, Gaithersburg, MD. I counted four.Good day to be an American.    

    WOW, that’s the dealer that had my down-payment. It broke my heart to bow out.
    Definitely a great day though!

    Be well and believe,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!


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    Airton

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:39 pm)

    Wow thank you Dave K!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:41 pm)

    Dave K.,

    HUZZAH! And ironically, my family and I were *in* Denville just this past weekend!

    Be well and believe,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:42 pm)

    Nelson: nasaman,
    What a shame they had to ruin the front bumber with a plate.NPNS!    

    Agreed, but I think I’d have settled (lol).

    Be well and believe,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:44 pm)

    Tag,

    Refresh my memory. Why did you “bow out”? Are you on another Volt wait list? Wish I were. Can’t even get my dealer to respond except to send me “canned email messages” saying that want to help me choose a new car and would work with me in doing so. I keep asking them to put me on a Volt wait list and let me purchase one as soon as one is in, but I just keep getting the same canned message. I gave them one more try today, then they are not getting any of my business (and I did tell them so).


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    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:46 pm)

    N Riley: Did you see my other post where I ask you about purchasing a Volt in Texas when I am from Mississippi?

    Technically, any dealer can sell you a Volt even if you are out of state. You would probably get one quicker from Texas than from us.


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    Dave K.

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:49 pm)

    nasaman: Jeff Kaffee, of Parsippany, N.J…. takes delivery.

    JeffKaffeeVolt.jpg?t=1292446101


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    CorvetteGuy

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:50 pm)

    I have the “iLease” app on my iPhone too, and I can NOT get the numbers to match up. However, I have the printout from US Bank with the terms on it, and that’s good enough for me. All I can do now is wait for that truck to roll up with some inventory.


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    Iman

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (3:50 pm)

    flmark,
    Yep the point is what I am hoping since they branded it a Chevy but you also note correctly as I recall the Saturn was excluded and am hoping they don’t exclude the Volt. I just checked the GM card info site for my card and they do not list the VOLT yet but they do show the CRUZE.
    And yep I have the old card too since back about 1992 and am grandfathered in too. They offerred to exchange my card for those newer limited programs but I did not byte then. Glad I did not. I have used the program twice already saving my self 7Gs on 2 different cars…one chevy and the last one the vibe pontiac had made by toyota. Great car, never an issue and with 96k miles on it, never had to change rear brakes yet and hate to give it up but would for an affordable volt. Im waiting and hoping they come down a little. My GM card is starting to turnover on that 7 year month to month limit roll off. I am hoping to use my current 3.5k on a volt or maybe other similar models they come out with in the next year or so. Hoping and time will tell when I try to use it….…. You should see the dealers mouth drop in the past when I asked him to call GM to get his little code to write down my price by the 3.5k both times. Ha.


  113. 113
    Mike-o-Matic

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (4:05 pm)

    nasaman: Kaffee flew home Monday from a vacation in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., when he heard the car would be ready today. He traded in a Toyota Prius hybrid he bought in 2005.*

    That little detail, after all the bashing the Volt received over the years from Prius zealouts, is nothing short of PRICELESS.

    :-D


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    Loboc

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (4:22 pm)

    Chuck B: Does anyone yet know how much car insurance would be for a Volt?    

    Allstate quoted me $68 per month if adding a 2011 Volt on top of my other three cars.


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    N Riley

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (4:36 pm)

    Are there any Austin, TX dealers/salespeople on this blog who want to discuss selling a volt to me?


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    Jackson

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (4:52 pm)

    Rashiid Amul is not a troll. He has had a long and positive history here at gm-volt, though he does not comment as much these days. I treat his question as an honest one posed by a long-absent friend.

    Suggesting that his initial comment be voted down is not appropriate in this case.

    .


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    evnow

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (4:53 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Yesterday, my finance manager said the $2,000 Cap Cost Reduction is not coming from the Customer. Since some areas of the outline are unclear, I have just made another trip to the donut shop… I will try to get fresh answers to these additional questions later today.   (Quote)  (Reply)

    I can’t figure out these lease numbers. I did a lot of number crunching for Leaf lease – but this I can’t fathom yet.

    Ofcourse, given the big price difference between Leaf & Volt – but almost same lease price – I’d say Lease is much better than buying. Thats what I’d do if I were buying Volt now.


  118. 118
    Jackson

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (4:54 pm)

    ON TOPIC:

    Lease terms? Sorry, not interested.

    I will *NEVER* lease any car, even this one. I suspect that I have a lot of company in this.

    Next topic, please?

    .


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    Jackson

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (5:01 pm)

    Rooster,

    Cogburn?

    pytg4.jpg

    /sorry, couldn’t resist …

    ;-)

    .


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    Rashiid Amul

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (5:05 pm)

    Jackson: Rashiid Amul is not a troll.He has had a long and positive history here at gm-volt, though he does not comment as much these days.I treat his question as an honest one posed by a long-absent friend.Suggesting that his initial comment be voted down is not appropriate in this case..    

    Thanks Jackson.
    Gosh, have I really been gone that long? ;)


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    DonC

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (5:10 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: That’s true for any vehicle that you lease and then buy at the end.

    I think I understand what is the issue is, and that’s state sales tax. Some states consider the acquisition price of the car to be the selling price minus any incentives. But CA and other states want sales tax paid on the sales price. So if US Bank subtracted the $7500 tax rebate from the purchase price, then you’d have to pay sales tax on the rebate amount at the time of purchase. By not subtracting the $7500 you pay sales tax only on the cap reduction at the time of signing and then pay sales tax on your monthly payments.

    At the end of the lease there are two prices. What you can buy the car for, which is $18,040, and what your bill of sale will say, which is $25,540. The $25, 540 figure is what the lease documents say, but, if you buy the car, US Bank will apply the $7500 credit it got three years before and reduce the amount you actually pay to $18, 040. So if you wanted to buy the car at the end of the lease you’d pay $18,040 + sales tax on $25,540.

    This actually is a clever way of structuring the lease.


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    Raymondjram

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (5:27 pm)

    Jackson: Rooster,
    Cogburn?/sorry, couldn’t resist …
    .    

    I saw the “True Grit” movie in 1969. There is a new version soon, with Jeff Bridges playing Rooster Cogburn.
    http://www.truegritmovie.com/

    As to put this on topic again, I suggest creating a new “Volt Salute” to anyone driving a Chevy Volt. Wave the famous “V” (for Victory) using the index and middle fingers!

    Raymond


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    DonC

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (5:37 pm)

    evnow: I can’t figure out these lease numbers. I did a lot of number crunching for Leaf lease – but this I can’t fathom yet.
    Ofcourse, given the big price difference between Leaf & Volt – but almost same lease price – I’d say Lease is much better than buying. Thats what I’d do if I were buying Volt now.

    Yes, for the price difference of $7500 you’d expect the lease to be at least $100/month more.


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    Loboc

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (5:40 pm)

    nasaman: Kaffee flew home Monday from a vacation in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., when he heard the car would be ready today. He traded in a Toyota Prius hybrid he bought in 2005.*

    There’s not a heck of a lot of foreign oil going to be offset if people are trading in Prii for Volts. This is the third one I’ve seen.

    It’s people like me, trading in an 18mpg car, that will make a larger difference.

    It’s all good. Get some CUV Voltecs out there for people needing a larger car.


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    Philm

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (5:48 pm)

    DonC,

    Cap reduction is simply a pre-pay against purchase price to reduce the lease payments. (Payments are then calculating rent and depreciation against the reduced purchase cost) The disadvantage is that you are throwing that money away in favor of a lower payment. My advice is, if you have the money to begin with, save it, and make a little interest while you sprinkle it out in slightly higher lease payments.


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    Tagamet

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (6:02 pm)

    N Riley: Tag,Refresh my memory.Why did you “bow out”?Are you on another Volt wait list?Wish I were.Can’t even get my dealer to respond except to send me “canned email messages” saying that want to help me choose a new car and would work with me in doing so.I keep asking them to put me on a Volt wait list and let me purchase one as soon as one is in, but I just keep getting the same canned message.I gave them one more try today, then they are not getting any of my business (and I did tell them so).    

    Penna isn’t a roll-out area, but the dealer I was using was in Md. I sent my deposit as soon as we heard who would have the Volts – and *THEN* they announced the price. Plan B was to try to lease, but I couldn’t get a straight answer about leasing from a neighboring state. The delay on getting the answer to that question gave my wife enough time to gently bring me back to fiscal reality. We just can’t afford it right now. After Feb, 2011, I’ll start getting SS (God willing) and that would have made a big difference, but as they say “If a bullfrog had wings, he wouldn’t be slopping around in the mud”! I’m still on several waiting lists in PA, so who knows….
    HTH,

    Be well and believe,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!


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    It's really a rip you off lease

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (6:05 pm)

    I’ve 0 interest in the Volt, but got re-directed into this forum by another article. The truth is – you guys got suckered into the lease with the Volt, if you plan to lease then buy. Why? Let me show you. It’s actually very easy to understand the leasing terms here.

    (Ignoring all the taxes, deliveries, etc. for now).

    41K vehicle.
    Residue after 3 yr with 12K mi/yr: 41K * 43% = $18404.

    Now here’s what sucked (and you guys think that GM is great?) There is NO WAY US Bank can offer this vehicle with the leasing price/downpayment (~$14K) at this residue. The math doesn’t add up!

    $18K + $14K = $32K.

    So what can GM do (with US Bank)? Well, bump up the residue with the $7500 tax credit. Now you’ve a residue of $25K.

    $25K + $14K = $39K

    GM then give a $2K discount to make the vehicle price $41K.

    Now math all works out.

    So, you can now enjoy a lower monthly payment and much lower downpayment. BUT YOU CAN’T BUY THE CAR (well, you can, but only if you are stupid enough to). That $7500 is being used as a “subsidy” to bump up the residue, and NOT a discount. That’s why the finance manager was saying, you can enjoy the $7500 credit now (thx to the residue bump up). If you want to enjoy the $7500 payment later (which you really can’t), then you can balloon your upfront lease payment to counter the lack of residue 3 years later. IOW, by adding the tax credit into the residue, you, who would like to lease the vehicle, will:
    (1) pay $25K to buy the vehicle 3 years later, for a vehicle that only worth $18K;
    (2) NOT get any tax credit;
    (3) the tax credit becomes a profit for the finance company;
    (4) NOT really enjoy any benefit of the tax credit or discount, except for the $2K, for the entire duration of the lease if you decided to buy the vehicle afterwards.

    Another point is that if you plan to lease, DO NOT consider going over the mileage post (by a lot). Not only will you have to pay for the mileage penalties, a lot of small prints will require you to pay
    (1) additional depreciation value,
    (2) mechanical repair cost.

    IOW, if you plan to drive a lot more than the lease mileage, DON’T lease!

    For comparison, Nissan is actually rolling the $7500 into the leasing term, and that’s done by reduction in capital cost (amount financed). IOW, you are actually enjoying the $7500 discount immediately when leasing the vehicle (and buy the vehicle at the residue price without any bumping).


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    Bungoman

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (6:07 pm)

    And so… it begins. Guarantee that any kid younger than 5 will laugh or be confused when it comes time for their first car and you tell them how they used to burn this crazy fluid that we fought and killed hundreds of thousands for.


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    Tagamet

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (6:20 pm)

    Bungoman: And so… it begins.Guarantee that any kid younger than 5 will laugh or be confused when it comes time for their first car and you tell them how they used to burn this crazy fluid that we fought and killed hundreds of thousands for.    

    From your lips to God’s ear.

    Be well and believe,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!


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    cheifsfan

     

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (7:01 pm)

    It’s really a rip you off lease: Another point is that if you plan to lease, DO NOT consider going over the mileage post (by a lot). Not only will you have to pay for the mileage penalties, a lot of small prints will require you to pay
    (1) additional depreciation value,
    (2) mechanical repair cost.

    Anyone have any additional information on this? What is the cost upfront to lease at 15k miles besides the decreased residual? Anyone have the fine print?


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    sparks

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (7:08 pm)

    Rashiid Amul: sparks

    Rashid, I don’t think anyone here thought you were a troll. They just thought you had been abducted by the trolls (thus explaining the long absence of your positive and constructive posts), and assumed your first post today was caused by “Stockholm syndrome,” or worse, that it was the result of a long and depraved program of brainwashing and coercion! Welcome back, and know that many of us understand the trials of PTSD (Post Troll Stress Syndrome — as a good example, you shoulda’ seen Corvette Guy’s recent bout yesterday)!! ;-)


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (7:16 pm)

    121 DonC

    I’m not sure. I just reported the summary from US Bank. I’ve never had a problem with leasing. We are fortunate to live very close to work. I don’t like the “Turn-In Fee” at the end because after 36 to 39 months you’ve forgotten about it, then you get hit with it when you turn in the car.

    127 It’s really a rip you off lease

    In your opinion maybe. A lot of early adopters here have already agreed that a 36 month test drive is the safer way to go, since improvements in battery life, newer body styles, and hopefully lower costs will be available by the time this first lease program ends. I doubt that very many who lease now will buy it out later when they can get the latest-greatest version down the line. Why would you want to be stuck with ‘old battery technology’ if something better comes out in a couple of years?


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    ClarksonCote

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (7:28 pm)

    Jay:
    Get some more donuts…This doesn’t add up.2500.00 due at signing (includes first payment)
    12232.85 total of 35 more payments (not 36!)
    25540.00 contract residual
    ———-
    40272.85 Total of all payments to buy car.2000.00GM cap cost reduction
    ———-
    42272.85 Total.
    ***Where’s the $7500???***
    figure it with the base residual of 18040 and you get a more reasonable number of 34772.85 including the tax credit.There’s a *little* discount of the $2000 cap cost reduction minus the $695 acquisition fee = $1305 but that’s a far cry from $7500!    

    What makes you think they’d give you a virtual zero interest loan for three years? The $7500 is essentially the interest they’re collecting during that lease period, you’re not going to end up paying the same sticker price that you would’ve paid up front, you will most certainly pay more (if you choose to buy at the end of lease)

    join thE REVolution


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (7:32 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: 127 It’s really a rip you off lease

    The short answer to this claim is that if the Leaf lease is fair, and it is, then a lease with the same monthly payments and term for a car that cost $7500 more has to be more than fair.

    FWIW the “turn in” fee is fair. It’s what you pay the lessor for making sure you haven’t screwed up their property. Perfectly reasonable. I’ve never had a problem with that charge or with the acquisition fee. Ha ha, now I’m telling a car dealer charges for a car are fair. Hell must be freezing over! ;-)


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (7:49 pm)

    Riley I can not find a way to send you a private response (sorry Group). Please read my posts under the Texas Deliveries thread and I will answer any questions you have there. I do have one concern. I am not sure the dealership can sell to you yet if you live out of state. You have to think about maintanence. It will be a while before other areas get training to work on these cars. I am only 2 or 3 hours from Austin and don’t even want to do that drive. This car has required regular maintenance. On a lease car, if you go that route, you have to really take care of the car. (Should anyway). It could be a long time also before you can get a fast charger for your garage, so I hope the long method would work for you for a while. I don’t drive much, so it is okay with me for now, but working on a charger anyway.

    Cari

    N Riley: Are there any Austin, TX dealers/salespeople on this blog who want to discuss selling a volt to me?  (Quote)  (Reply)


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (7:50 pm)

    coffeetime: Truth: Consumer advocates, noted experts, and a good calculator will confirm that the car lease is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle.

    Unless you turn the cars into driveway dressing, which is what most leased cars are or become. Meaning, you can’t drive them, because extra miles are so expensive. Extra miles are anything over 230 or so miles per week.


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    It's Really A Rip You Off Lease

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (7:56 pm)

    If you think that the Volt lease is “fair,” then go ahead and keep on thinking it this way.

    For those that don’t understand why it’s a rip-you-off lease, this lease essentially leaves you nothing but to stick with the mileage and return the vehicle at end of lease. Otherwise, you are the one who has to eat an extra $7500 – rather than a tax credit/benefit/discount – if you are in a situation that you would like to purchase the vehicle afterwards for whatever reason. That happens, such as going over a lot of miles, or want to get something else, or no more such “low” payment terms…

    This is not to mention the gap insurance (huge), or loss of vehicle and the amount you’ll have to come up from your own pocket.

    In short, you are stuck!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:11 pm)

    It’s Really A Rip You Off Lease: this lease essentially leaves you nothing but to stick with the mileage and return the vehicle at end of lease.

    That’s the whole point. Lease it for 36 months (and less than 36,000 miles) and then return it.

    One week after that, go back and make an offer on the car. They should have it all clean and shiny by then (with new tires) and your offer would be at market value not some inflated buy-out number.

    You can only use it for ~46 miles per day of commuting, but, what the heck. You’re driving a new Volt!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:30 pm)

    Rashiid Amul:
    Thanks Jackson.
    Gosh, have I really been gone that long?     

    With all the concern about the off topic question, I did a test. I copied the first line of Rashiid’s question and added it to a Google search with the word GM-VOLT in front. The result was the topic from Oct 11. I did a search of that thread and Rashiid did not post a comment. He obviously missed reading GM-VOLT that day.

    Considering all the incorrect old data on other websites, thank goodness the question is asked here or on the forums.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:45 pm)

    Why lease one when you can get one for FREE!!!
    http://www.hotwatercasino.com/promotions.html

    I wonder where they got theirs??


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (8:45 pm)

    back to the article…

    i don’t do leases. in fact, i’ve never had car payments of any kind. if i can’t afford the price of a new car, i’ll buy used.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:15 pm)

    pjkPA: Can you use GM card credits… that would bring the net price to $30,000.

    You can use your GM card credits towards a Volt starting on November 1, 2011. I’ve already talked to the dealer on whose waiting list I was about submitting an order around next September so I can take delivery as soon after 11/1/11 as possible.

    Note that this date was in a mailing three or four months ago. If anyone hears of a change in this policy, post it for all of us GM Card holders wanting to drive the purchase price down to $30K.

    PS: My seven year conveyer belt started rolling over two years ago. Waiting for the Volt is trashing $500/year in rebate credits. But wait I will.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:23 pm)

    Mark Z:
    With all the concern about the off topic question, I did a test. I copied the first line of Rashiid’s question and added it to a Google search with the word GM-VOLT in front. The result was the topic from Oct 11. I did a search of that thread and Rashiid did not post a comment. He obviously missed reading GM-VOLT that day.Considering all the incorrect old data on other websites, thank goodness the question is asked here or on the forums.    

    I missed it, Mark Z.
    I am kind of disappointed to hear it, to be honest. But such is life.
    Not every detail sticks in my tiny brain, but I think I would have remember this one.
    It makes me feel a bit let down. I will check out the post on October 11. Thanks for the heads-up.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:24 pm)

    sparks: Welcome back, and know that many of us understand the trials of PTSD (Post Troll Stress Syndrome — as a good example, you shoulda’ seen Corvette Guy’s recent bout yesterday)!!

    LOL Sparks. I am very familiar with that syndrome, having suffered a bit of it myself.
    It is good to be back.


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (9:48 pm)

    Loboc: Allstate quoted me $68 per month if adding a 2011 Volt on top of my other three cars.    

    Thanks – may I ask what state you live in? I’m in NJ… not known for our low rates…


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:14 pm)

    My NY state insurance quote…

    Switching from a 2003 Honda Civic to the 2011 Chevy Volt

    Premium changed from $243.40/6 months to $370.40/6 months… Not too shabby.

    Tentatively picking up my Volt on Saturday! :)

    join thE REVolution


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:23 pm)

    Raymondjram: I saw the “True Grit” movie in 1969. There is a new version soon, with Jeff Bridges playing Rooster Cogburn.http://www.truegritmovie.com/As to put this on topic again, I suggest creating a new “Volt Salute” to anyone driving a Chevy Volt. Wave the famous “V” (for Victory) using the index and middle fingers!Raymond  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Rooster Cogburn was a great movie no doubt.

    Way off topic but…I took the name from the Alice In Chains song “Rooster”, writen by lead guitarist Jerry Cantrell. The song is a tribute to his estranged father, and was his way of reaching out to him by recounting his time in Vietnam where his call sign was Rooster. I find it a very haunting song.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUmus9Gtj14&feature=watch_response


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:25 pm)

    Interesting graph I just came across from the IEA:

    iea_weo2010_gevsales.gif

    Not exactly sure what the “450″ scenario is though. I think it assumes all fuel subsidies in the world are eliminated; unlikely, I know.

    join thE REVolution


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    Tagamet

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:31 pm)

    ClarksonCote:

    Tentatively picking up my Volt on Saturday! :)

    CONGRATS! I’ll bet that it makes Saturday look like a long way off! Kinda like Voltmas Eve – none of the kids sleep well.

    Be well and believe,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:36 pm)

    ClarksonCote,

    I googled it and this pretty much sums it up:

    http://www.energyboom.com/emerging/ieas-450-scenario-outlines-energy-actions-needed-mitigate-climate-change

    “Unlikely” doesn’t come close.

    Be well and believe,
    Tagamet

    Let’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:39 pm)

    Tagamet:
    CONGRATS! I’ll bet that it makes Saturday look like a long way off! Kinda like Voltmas Eve – none of the kids sleep well.Be well and believe,
    TagametLet’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!    

    The last three days have been very sleepless, Tag. Saturday feels like an eternity away! :)

    Oh, and I’m pretty sure that Cyber Gray Volt on airton’s delivery truck is mine, but don’t tell Lyle! ;)

    Shortly after my pick up I’ll have two quick trips with the Volt too, totaling about 1000 miles. I hope to do an article here that talks about my experience along with the CS mode over some mountains.

    join thE REVolution


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:41 pm)

    Tagamet: ClarksonCote,
    I googled it and this pretty much sums it up:http://www.energyboom.com/emerging/ieas-450-scenario-outlines-energy-actions-needed-mitigate-climate-change“Unlikely” doesn’t come close.Be well and believe,
    TagametLet’s Just Get Enough VOLTEC Wheels On The Road!!    

    Thanks for the link, very unlikely indeed. There’s another graph I saw that showed forecasted coal use by countries, assuming no 450 scenario… not good there either:

    iea_weo2010_coal.gif

    join thE REVolution


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:43 pm)

    I think that this is the primary source.

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/

    Be well and good night,
    Tagamet


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:46 pm)

    ClarksonCote:
    Thanks for the link, very unlikely indeed.There’s another graph I saw that showed forecasted coal use by countries, assuming no 450 scenario… not good there either:join thE REVolution    

    Well that cuts it. I think that our government should buy everyone a new Volt so that we are doing our part. Who knows, maybe it’s in that omnibus bull, er bill. (yeah, I’m kiddin)

    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Dec 15th, 2010 (10:49 pm)

    ClarksonCote: Oh, and I’m pretty sure that Cyber Gray Volt on airton’s delivery truck is mine, but don’t tell Lyle! ;)

    Careful, I hear that Lyle *reads* this (lol).

    Be well,
    Tagamet


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    Dror Geron

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:34 pm)

    doubledave,

    VOLT FOR SALE JAN. DELIVERY loaded in pearl white 559-222-9191


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    flmark

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    Dec 15th, 2010 (11:35 pm)

    Loboc: There’s not a heck of a lot of foreign oil going to be offset if people are trading in Prii for Volts. This is the third one I’ve seen. It’s people like me, trading in an 18mpg car, that will make a larger difference.It’s all good. Get some CUV Voltecs out there for people needing a larger car.  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Yes, but…

    Remember that the traded-in Prius will be bought by someone else…who may be getting 16 mpg in his old clunker.

    This is how I relate to my passed on technology if I upgrade. I am still benefitting society at large if I take incremental steps and leave my previous steps to be capitalized on by others.


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (12:21 am)

    ClarksonCote: Not exactly sure what the “450″ scenario is though.

    I think it’s a scenario based on 450 parts per million of CO2.

    Dave G: i don’t do leases. in fact, i’ve never had car payments of any kind.

    Open your mind Dave. LOL Really. It just depends on the terms. Sometimes leases beat any other option. I’ve paid cash but you want to take the best deal and sometimes cash is not the best deal. So check out all the options.

    Leases get a bad name because people use them to get cars they couldn’t otherwise afford. That’s a bad idea. But they can make sense. Here the lease will protect you on the downside. If a new model comes out or a new battery gives a 25% range increase the car you bought for $44K might be worth $12K in three or four years. Not a good thing.

    I honestly can’t say if the lease is a good deal because I don’t understand it — seems like there are some big questions that aren’t answered. I think it will be but maybe not. But get the info and then make a decision. Don’t write it off out of hand.


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (12:35 am)

    Rashiid Amul: I will check out the post on October 11.

    With 314 entries, it’s a mind boggling topic. The 70 mph is not set in stone, as high torque at lower speeds can connect the engine, but never in EV mode. The time chart on the last page of Motor Trend’s Car of the Year review makes it clear that at high speed, 100% Electric is not as responsive. It took them 7 seconds longer from 0 to 90 with the engine off. At 0 to 60, hardly a difference in either mode.


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (1:10 am)

    flmark: Loboc: There’s not a heck of a lot of foreign oil going to be offset if people are trading in Prii for Volts. This is the third one I’ve seen. It’s people like me, trading in an 18mpg car, that will make a larger difference. It’s all good. Get some CUV Voltecs out there for people needing a larger car. (Quote) (Reply)

    Yes, but…

    Remember that the traded-in Prius will be bought by someone else…who may be getting 16 mpg in his old clunker.

    This is how I relate to my passed on technology if I upgrade. I am still benefitting society at large if I take incremental steps and leave my previous steps to be capitalized on by others.

    Very important observation, Mark! I totally agree —also, no one has mentioned that (using Lyle’s somewhat pessimistic results, since he’s driving at a rate of about 24,000 miles/year on his Volt, i.e., 141mpg avg), that new Volt should be saving roughly 2/3rds of the gas consumed by the Prius it replaces! So both the Volt Sale & the Prius trade are PLUSES! It’s a Win-Win! :) :)


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (1:21 am)

    Mike-o-Matic: nasaman: Kaffee flew home Monday from a vacation in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., when he heard the car would be ready today. He traded in a Toyota Prius hybrid he bought in 2005.*

    That little detail, after all the bashing the Volt received over the years from Prius zealouts, is nothing short of PRICELESS. :-D

    I certainly feel so Mike, so I’m surprised your post (#113) about Jeff Kaffee, the VERY FIRST Volt customer in the US, didn’t “turn green” right away. So “+” post #113, folks!


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (4:35 am)

    ClarksonCote,

    It’s both a serial & parallel and also split control of both electric motors.
    It’s basically the whole box and dice!
    That is why the transmission won a design award – it’s brillant and craps all over a Prius
    Which is only a parallel drive.

    Go Volt!


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (6:26 am)

    I’m looking for detail like this for the Volt lease:

    That way I can calculate the real out-the-door lease payment.

    Anyone?

    LEAF SL – $33,720
    $379 mont w/1,999 down (15k miles per year)

    Destination $820
    Includes Tax Rebate $7,500
    Net Capitalized Cost $25,521
    Acquisition Cost $595
    Disposition Fee $395

    Residuals:
    49% (24m) 44% (36m) 43% (39m) 39% (48m)

    All extra miles: 15c per mile
    Pre-bought miles: 10c per mile

    Lease rates Rates:
    Tier 0 — 0.00204 (credit above 740)
    Tier 1 — 0.00224 (credit 700-739)
    Tier 2 — 0.00264 (credit 660-699)
    Tier 3 — 0.00369 (credit 620-659)
    Tier 4 — 0.00454 (credit 600-619)

    http://nissan-leaf.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=72#p352


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (7:15 am)

    Loboc: There’s not a heck of a lot of foreign oil going to be offset if people are trading in Prii for Volts. This is the third one I’ve seen. It’s people like me, trading in an 18mpg car, that will make a larger difference.It’s all good. Get some CUV Voltecs out there for people needing a larger car.  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Sure there can is. The Volt buyer saves and the used Prius will likely be sold into the national fleet. Not as good as a used up Expedition being traded in but better than just tge Volt’s improvement over the Prius alone.


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (7:26 am)

    Chuck B:
    Thanks – may I ask what state you live in?I’m in NJ… not known for our low rates…    

    Texas. That quote from three months ago is probably way below the national average.

    I have a lot of history with Allstate, never filed a claim (in 20 years) and have homeowners with them. Plus, I’m 50+ young (um, make that two +).

    Insurance is very difficult to figure out how it works. About 7 years ago, my rate went way up. Last year, it went way down. (like half). It looks like they are using FICO or other credit scoring now. Since I started paying closer attention to credit, maybe that helped.

    Plus, I communicate with them a lot more. (Bitching about rates. But nicely.) One plus with real estate value crashing is that my homeowner’s rate went down a little. But not enough.


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (8:28 am)

    I noticed this “refinement” when I sat in my car yesterday. I took a test drive in the unplugged tour and compared to that car it was noticeable.


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    Dec 16th, 2010 (9:49 am)

    Cari,

    Thanks for the response. I guess I am going to have to just settle down and wait until the Volt comes to my area. I was just reacting like a kid in a candy store when he sees a lot of the other kids getting candy and he had been told to wait a year or so, then I could have some candy.

    Good luck to all you lucky people getting your “candy” now.


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    It's Really A Rip-You-Off Lease

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    Dec 16th, 2010 (11:37 am)

    This is going to be my last post in this forum as all I see are a majority of GM supporters who will blindly “support” GM even though it’s doing you wrong…tsk, tsk, tsk…

    @Volt Tastic,

    That’s the beauty of the LEAF lease. You actually see that YOU enjoy the $7500 tax credit, as a downpayment for you, when you lease the vehicle.

    Unfortunately, you aren’t going to see this way of lay out from US Bank because it is a Bank lease. It’s a lease all right, but they are geared toward financial terms rather than the more simplified “car” lease terms from, say, NMAC, (ex) GMAC, etc.

    In short, you will pay (again, w/o taxes, license fees, deliveries, etc.) $2500 down, $350/month, if you are at Tier 0.

    If you AREN’T at Tier 0, then god helps you…Bank most likely doesn’t subsidize lease for people with less than stellar credit. Leasing car is not bank’s main business. OTOH, that’s major business for automobile finance companies, so afc often subsidize leases (and finances) even if you aren’t at Tier 0.

    The other part is that such info must come from the Bank, as it’s not from GM. So why is such info not “shown?”
    - payments look much higher at other Tiers…
    - becomes responsibility for dealership to find other financing companies to shop for “lower” rates.

    In fact, if you know your credit score, you can go ahead and contact US Bank, or your credit union (which usually will beat the bank rates), as to how much you will need to pay.

    This goes back to the original intent – with GM recent purchase of a finance company, or even its tie with Ally, why not finance (lease is also a way of financing) through them, rather than US Bank? (If you want to know the possible answer, see end of this comment.)

    Lease is NEVER the best way to buy a vehicle. It’s a rip off. And you know what? House mortgage actually copied it with the “interest only” or “ARM” payment for the 1st 5 years…you pay much less up front, but ballooning the payment afterwards. However, you will ALWAYS end up paying more than you actually have in value.

    But then, people in this forum don’t seem to know why people lease AND buy. Sure, with this type of technology, one really should LEASE and NOT BUY (the less smart will) IDEALLY…

    - Many people develop feelings with vehicles. They simply want to own them after spending 3 years with them.
    - When time comes, people have put too much mileage on the vehicle…(penalties close to purchasing cost)
    - When time comes, they realize that they won’t be able to get into new leases: bad credit on their parts, or no more tax incentives (much larger payment for new vehicles of the same model), etc. At that point, they pick to purchase (and even finance the remaining).

    Wake up and smell the coffee here, people. The reason why GM’s lease plan with US Bank is ripping you off is very simple:

    (1) You actually don’t have $7500 used by YOU in the downpayment;
    (2) Even worse, you PAY that $7500 out from your own wallet after the lease is over, and decided to purchase the vehicle. US Bank will actually “deposit” $15K into its own fund for the sales.
    (3) For that person who said, “go back to buy it after a week.” Hello? Do you know that, since it’s a bank lease, and not a afc lease, chances are the vehicle will be towed to an auction in just a day or 2 (or maybe longer)? The dealership doesn’t own the vehicle. The bank does. If it was an afc lease, then more likely it will stay at the dealership. IOW, you probably can’t buy the vehicle when you go back in a week, at a price of $18K (if it is still there and hasn’t been towed).
    (4) For those that have to buy – for whatever reason – you are paying $7500 on top of what the vehicle is worth.
    (5) You can’t trade in the vehicle (say, GM comes up with Volt van or whatever that you want afterwards) because no one will take the vehicle without YOU paying the large gap (vehicle worths much less than what the buy-out is).

    Now you gotta ask yourself – but I’m supposed to be able to enjoy the $7500 credit! Sorry. You don’t. It looks like you do on surface, you don’t when you actually do the math.

    So why US Bank and not leasing through GM? Several possible reasons:
    (1) GM finance bump up the residue so much (i.e. vehicle may not even worth 43% afterwards) that it doesn’t want to risk – think Mitsubish in 2008-ish;
    (2) GM actually doesn’t have a “solid” road map to Volt in 3 plus years, so it doesn’t want to take a risk against the current Volt (resale value);


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    jscott1

     

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    Dec 16th, 2010 (1:22 pm)

    It’s Really A Rip-You-Off Lease – Thanks for the explanation.

    Leasing may still be preferred for the Volt for some people, but as long as people understand that you do NOT want to purchase it at the end of the lease because of the inflated residual.

    I would say that if you understand the terms and conditions, agree to them and sign on the dotted line then you are not being ripped off.


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    Iman

     

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    Dec 16th, 2010 (2:17 pm)

    Baltimore17,

    Me too. My 7 year conveyer belt of earnings is rolling over its 1st year. And yes GM Card services confirmed to me via email this week that Nov 2011 is the month you can use your GM card rebate on the chevy volt. Hopefully I am ready by then.


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    Noel Park

     

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    Dec 16th, 2010 (2:28 pm)

    Rashiid Amul: Off topic.
    The wheels on the Volt are turned by the electric motor.
    They are never turned by the gas engine because it is not connected to the wheels. True or False?

    #4

    What’s the problem with that? -21? Come on guys, Rashiid is one of the people. +1


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    Volt Tastic

     

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    Dec 17th, 2010 (6:00 pm)

    Thank you for providing clarity where needed. If people read your post before consummating their Volt financing, it will probably alleviate any negative good-will. GM does not need that right now.

    However, it does illustrate the impact of not having a robust financial arm tied to an auto manufacturer. Financing drives sales.

    It would be interesting to see how many Volt buyers actual leave the dealership with the $350 lease and fully benefit from the $7,500 credit. Since the bank owns the vehicles, I would agree that the off lease cars will go to auction and the former lessee may find it difficult to buy the car at an attractive price. The dealer buying from the auction will net the benefit over the former lessee in most cases.

    It’s Really A Rip-You-Off Lease: This is going to be my last post in this forum as all I see are a majority of GM supporters who will blindly “support” GM even though it’s doing you wrong…tsk, tsk, tsk…@Volt Tastic,That’s the beauty of the LEAF lease.You actually see that YOU enjoy the $7500 tax credit, as a downpayment for you, when you lease the vehicle.Unfortunately, you aren’t going to see this way of lay out from US Bank because it is a Bank lease.It’s a lease all right, but they are geared toward financial terms rather than the more simplified “car” lease terms from, say, NMAC, (ex) GMAC, etc.In short, you will pay (again, w/o taxes, license fees, deliveries, etc.) $2500 down, $350/month, if you are at Tier 0.If you AREN’T at Tier 0, then god helps you…Bank most likely doesn’t subsidize lease for people with less than stellar credit.Leasing car is not bank’s main business.OTOH, that’s major business for automobile finance companies, so afc often subsidize leases (and finances) even if you aren’t at Tier 0.The other part is that such info must come from the Bank, as it’s not from GM.So why is such info not “shown?”
    - payments look much higher at other Tiers…
    - becomes responsibility for dealership to find other financing companies to shop for “lower” rates.In fact, if you know your credit score, you can go ahead and contact US Bank, or your credit union (which usually will beat the bank rates), as to how much you will need to pay.This goes back to the original intent – with GM recent purchase of a finance company, or even its tie with Ally, why not finance (lease is also a way of financing) through them, rather than US Bank?(If you want to know the possible answer, see end of this comment.)Lease is NEVER the best way to buy a vehicle.It’s a rip off.And you know what?House mortgage actually copied it with the “interest only” or “ARM” payment for the 1st 5 years…you pay much less up front, but ballooning the payment afterwards.However, you will ALWAYS end up paying more than you actually have in value.But then, people in this forum don’t seem to know why people lease AND buy.Sure, with this type of technology, one really should LEASE and NOT BUY (the less smart will) IDEALLY…- Many people develop feelings with vehicles.They simply want to own them after spending 3 years with them.
    - When time comes, people have put too much mileage on the vehicle…(penalties close to purchasing cost)
    - When time comes, they realize that they won’t be able to get into new leases: bad credit on their parts, or no more tax incentives (much larger payment for new vehicles of the same model), etc.At that point, they pick to purchase (and even finance the remaining).Wake up and smell the coffee here, people.The reason why GM’s lease plan with US Bank is ripping you off is very simple:(1) You actually don’t have $7500 used by YOU in the downpayment;
    (2) Even worse, you PAY that $7500 out from your own wallet after the lease is over, and decided to purchase the vehicle.US Bank will actually “deposit” $15K into its own fund for the sales.
    (3) For that person who said, “go back to buy it after a week.”Hello?Do you know that, since it’s a bank lease, and not a afc lease, chances are the vehicle will be towed to an auction in just a day or 2 (or maybe longer)?The dealership doesn’t own the vehicle.The bank does.If it was an afc lease, then more likely it will stay at the dealership.IOW, you probably can’t buy the vehicle when you go back in a week, at a price of $18K (if it is still there and hasn’t been towed).
    (4) For those that have to buy – for whatever reason – you are paying $7500 on top of what the vehicle is worth.
    (5) You can’t trade in the vehicle (say, GM comes up with Volt van or whatever that you want afterwards) because no one will take the vehicle without YOU paying the large gap (vehicle worths much less than what the buy-out is).Now you gotta ask yourself – but I’m supposed to be able to enjoy the $7500 credit!Sorry.You don’t.It looks like you do on surface, you don’t when you actually do the math.So why US Bank and not leasing through GM?Several possible reasons:
    (1) GM finance bump up the residue so much (i.e. vehicle may not even worth 43% afterwards) that it doesn’t want to risk – think Mitsubish in 2008-ish;
    (2) GM actually doesn’t have a “solid” road map to Volt in 3 plus years, so it doesn’t want to take a risk against the current Volt (resale value);    


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    Robert

     

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    Jan 1st, 2011 (8:49 am)

    Not sure if any of this discussion matters. My wife and I attempted to lease a Volt at one of Maryland’s largest GM dealerships but were told that “no bank will lease the Volt right now because the car is too new.” They told us that they only option available at this time is to purchase the car at full sticker price with conventional financing. We referenced the GM ads and all of the discussion and hype surrounding the lease promotion, but their response was “We know exactly what you are talking about, but we don’t deal with any bank, including GMAC, who will actually lease a Volt because the resale value can’t be determined.” Not sure if this is a dealer scam to force customers into buying at full sticker, but I guess we will have to accept that GM is going to allow history to repeat itself by allowing their dealers to undermine a great new vehicle. We will stick with Toyota/ Lexus, where the hybrid prices are reasonable (we can buy two Prius vehicles for the price of one Volt) and the sales procedures and financing incentives are explained without subterfuge.