Dec 11

First Nissan LEAF Delivered Today

 


[ad#post_ad]On this date of 12/11/10 Nissan begins to make good on its visionary CEO Carlos Ghosn’s promise to mass-produce electric cars on a large global scale.

First announced in March of last year, the LEAF electric car program has been moving fast and furious.  The company stopped taking orders in the Fall when they reached 20,000 US consumers who had put a $99 deposit down to reserve their car.  The company shocked the world when they announced the surprisingly low price of $25,280 after tax credits for the car ($20,280 in California), and have gotten many rave automotive reviews for the vehicle.

Indeed Ghosn plans to produce up to 500,000 EVs per year shortly, and a US-based assembly plant for the car and a separate one for the batteries are being developed in Smyrna Tenessee that will go online in 2012.

Today the very first consumer in the US will pick up his brand new LEAF in the San Fransciso Bay area of California.

The man is named Olivier Chalouhi and is a 31-year old tech entrepreneur who is credited as the first person to order a LEAF in one of the US launch markets.  Those initial markets include  Southern California, Arizona, Oregon, Tennessee and Seattle.

The eyes of the world will be watching as Chalouhi  picks up his black Nissan LEAF SL at North Bay Nissan of Petaluma. The delivery will be followed by a press conference at San Francisco City Hall Plaza.

Perhaps nowhere else in the country are EVs more popular and important  than in California, when too the initial Volts will be sold.

To commemorate this occasion, Carlos Ghosn has written the following memo which was paced on the Nissan LEAF Facebook page:


For more than 100 years of car manufacturing, we have been tethered to the same gasoline engine concept. That is, until now.
On the eve of the market debut of the Nissan LEAF electric car in the United States and Japan, a date that the Renault-Nissan Alliance has been working toward for many years, some are watching our efforts with great skepticism. That does not come as a surprise. If necessity is the mother of innovation, then skepticism is its father. From the two, solutions come to life.

Advances we have achieved in technology now allow us to move forward with the affordable, mass-marketed 100% electric cars – Nissan LEAF being the first.

This drive toward new, sustainable mobility is born from one simple premise: Electricity is the new fuel for cars. The electric car has the potential to transform the industry, and it has already begun to change the way we think about cars and fuel.

Recently, a reporter asked me how the Environmental Protection Agency should indicate miles per gallon on the fuel economy sticker that goes in the window of each new Nissan LEAF. My response: Miles per gallon? Infinite. There is no gallon. Though the EPA rates Nissan LEAF at 99 miles per gallon, it is a measurement as outdated in the new mobility age as the idea of tailpipe emissions. An electric car has neither a tailpipe nor emissions.

As the global community thinks more and more about sustainability, more is at stake than simply seeking ways to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. There is a need to shift away from a total dependence on this finite resource – oil – as we continue to meet the transportation needs of people all over the world. If the car is sustainable, then so will be the industry.

Skeptics point to concerns about the lack of infrastructure for electric vehicles. We share this concern. That is why our approach extends beyond the car itself. We are engaged every step of the way – from car and battery development to battery-recycling and charging stations.

We realize that public and private cooperation is essential to the success of the electric car, and we have more than 80 partnerships with governments and organizations worldwide to develop the infrastructure to support EVs and widespread marketplace acceptance. In the United States, these partnerships reach from Hawaii to Connecticut, from Washington State to Florida, and every day more partnerships are being negotiated.

There are moments in life when you can feel that you are on the verge of something truly significant. It is a feeling of optimism and potential, the result of preparation and the right timing.
Little by little, the skeptics are becoming believers. Governments, industries and a growing number of consumers are overwhelmingly embracing a car that many have not yet driven. Soon, more and more people will have an opportunity to see, drive or own their own electric car. In Nissan LEAF, they will fully understand all the benefits we have been talking about: the quiet ride, quick acceleration, smooth handling and – best of all – zero emissions.

This is the future of mobility, and the future is starting now.
# # #
Carlos Ghosn
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Renault-Nissan Alliance

Congratulations Nissan and Mr. Ghosn, we applaud your effort, and wish you well.  As with the Volt, buyer in the rest of the country will have to wait up to 18 months before they can pick up their cars.

Also unveiled this week is the movie trailer for the upcoming film Revenge of the Electric Car.   The film is written and directed by Chris Paine who also created the 2006 film called Who Killed the Electric Car, the story of the EV-1 that played a role in jump starting the electric car revolution of which we are bearing witness.   A little known fact is I started GM-Volt.com without having known about the EV-1 story at all, and having never heard of or seen the original film.  Of note Paine declined to interview me for the film despite GM’s strong suggestions that he do, due to the role of this site in the car’s development.  See the video below:

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This entry was posted on Saturday, December 11th, 2010 at 9:46 am and is filed under BEV, Competitors. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 120


  1. 1
    Red HHR

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (9:51 am)

    Cool, I hope the deliver a million more!


  2. 2
    neutron

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (9:52 am)

    The EV revolution has arrived and is being implemented “to the masses”


  3. 3
    Dave K.

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (9:57 am)

    Very good trailer. My son and I are off to the theater as soon as it comes out. Wife still has trouble believing that she won’t be stuffing $30 of gasoline per week in our 2011 Volt.

    Leaf lover or not. Have to admire Carlos Ghosn’s refreshing full speed ahead attitude.

    =D-Volt


  4. 4
    Eco_Turbo

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (9:59 am)

    I know what he’ll be doing 2 or 3 hours after he gets it. :)


  5. 5
    Tom

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:02 am)

    I hope he does not live more than 60 or so miles from the dealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Tom


  6. 6
    koz

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:05 am)

    “Like all lithium ion batteries, the Nissan LEAF battery will experience a reduction in the amount of electricity or charge it can hold over time, resulting in a reduction in the vehicle’s range. This is normal and expected. The rate of reduction cannot be assured however, the battery is expected to maintain approximately 80% of its initial capacity after 5 years of normal operation and recommended care, but this is not guaranteed. This number may be higher or lower depending upon usage and care.” -http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/tags/show/specs#/leaf-electric-car/battery-info/index

    Hopefully, Leaf customers are aware of what their real-world worst case range will be for their ownership period. I imagine most will choose the lease route since it does not come with battery warranty for energy storage capacity.


  7. 7
    Red HHR

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:11 am)

    “A little known fact is I started GM-Volt.com without having known about the EV-1 story at all, and having never heard of or seen the original film. Of note Paine declined to interview me for the film despite GM’s strong suggestions that he do, due to the role of this site in the car’s development.”

    “Success has many fathers” to quote Tag. Apparently Lyle is one of the fathers of the Volt according to GM!

    I never saw the film either, and if Lyle is not duly recognized, I will probably not consider the new one.


  8. 8
    evnow

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:16 am)

    Nissan will be showing the events live on their facebook page.

    http://www.facebook.com/nissanleaf?v=app_109375255803127

    firstleaf1.jpg


  9. 9
    Loboc

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:25 am)

    I also hadn’t heard of the EV1 until after it was no longer being built. This time around, I think that electrics will get a better grip on the market.

    I recently canceled my LEAF reservation. From everything I’ve read, the car just doesn’t have the capability I need. My driving loop is more like Lyle’s as far as mileage. (18 to 20k miles per year).

    Volt can replace my current car one-for-one and I’ll have the same capability. A full-on electric can’t do that yet.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:36 am)

    Tom: I hope he does not live more than 60 or so miles from the dealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Tom    

    If he did I guess he could just flatbed it on a black smoke spewing diesel. Which, by the way might spew more noxious fumes than a Volt owner would their entire first year of enjoyment. ;)


  11. 11
    joe

     

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:47 am)

    I wish him luck because he’ll need it. The Leaf was brought to market prematurely for many reasons. First, the battery does not have the temperature control that the Volt has, and that is a critical aspect! Second, the infrastructure is not out there for long trips. It might make for a good car around the city with warm weather, if you can stand the looks of it.


  12. 12
    nasaman

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:51 am)

    Eco_Turbo:

    I know what he’ll be doing 2 or 3 hours after he gets it. :)

    Uhhh …out and about and all over town dissipating energy?!?*

    /*IOW, exactly what my Dad warned me would “be my ruination” when I was a teen! ;) ;) ;)


  13. 13
    joe

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:03 am)

    Eco_Turbo,

    I also know what he’ll be doing in about two hours after he has the car. He’ll be charging the battery and will have to wait many hours before he can drive it again! LOL.


  14. 14
    Adam

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:04 am)

    For those hating the Leaf, and the temp. control, mixed with the range limitations… The lucky guy who purchased the 1st leaf, do you know what type of commute he has? No? Do you know what his driving style is? No? Oh, I see, you hate him because he got a Leaf, and didn’t stick with the Volt. You guys are a bunch of haters, if your not Pro-Volt, you get nailed with severe hatred!!!! I’d like to see at LEAST -1000 nexto to my name today, but I’m afraid there’s not enough haters on this site to grant that wish, because SOME people like the Leaf.


  15. 15
    joe

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:06 am)

    Adam,

    We don’t hate the people who buy the Leaf. What we hate is the Leaf with it’s mediocre engineering and looks.


  16. 16
    MichaelH

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:07 am)

    Dave K.: My son and I are off to the theater as soon as it comes out.

    From the Article: Of note Paine declined to interview me for the film despite GM’s strong suggestions that he do (so), due to the role of this site in the car’s development.

    I think I’ll boycott the film since he “declined to interview” one of the most important “movers and shakers” in the current story. 8-)


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:08 am)

    nasaman: Uhhh …out and about and all over town dissipating energy?!?

    No, probably looking for some energy to assimilate.


  18. 18
    Roy H

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:10 am)

    I decided to put together some posts from the Volt owners forum. As you can see at least 448 Volts have been built and waiting for shipment.

    ChrisC
    Here’s what I think is going to happen:
    - the bidonthevolt.com car auction closes Dec 14th 6pm
    - after vetting the buyer (ahem), GM does an event on Dec 15th that presents that car to the winner, so that buyer can claim to have the “first Volt” (with some asterisks)
    - GM immediately starts releasing our cars to the shipping process; this might happen a couple days prior to Dec 15th but I don’t think anyone will actually take delivery before then, so the auction winner has bragging rights
    - Volt Advisors will be able to tell us when they’ve been “released”, however we’ll already see movement off 3800 via CT of course
    - cars enter the shipping process and should reach eastern US destinations by Christmas; no idea about western US

    hamchief, Friday Dec 10
    I moved to 3800 this morning! VIN 448

    honoreitiscom, Saturday Dec, 11 9AM
    I did the 3800 dance at 6am this morning. 16 calendar days from 3400 to 3800. Now on to Area 51.

    10/07/2010 – (1100) Order Placed at Dealership Order passed GM edit tables but dealers has not received allocation to place order
    10/07/2010 – (1102) Order Entered via Web
    10/19/2010 – (2030) Order edited or modified
    11/02/2010 – (2000) Order Accepted by GM Dealer used allocation to place order into production
    11/02/2010 – (2500) Order Preferenced Order pulled to the production system
    11/03/2010 – (3000) Order accepted by production control. Parts being ordered and production process is underway.
    11/23/2010 – (3100) Order available to sequence.
    11/23/2010 – (3300) Order Scheduled for Production Order is scheduled into the plant build cycle
    11/24/2010 – (3400) Order Broadcast (Internal Plant Paperwork Order Produced) Order is sent to various build & supplier areas to bring order together
    12/10/2010 – (3800) Order produced and vehicle is being prepared for shipping.

    This next post is for a non-Volt order, just to show steps after 3800
    Chevyconnects, Saturday Dec 4
    Ok here is what to expect from the status code process.
    It should move to 4000 available to ship and then 4150 invoice the dealer then go to status 4b00 bayed which means it is parked in the lot waiting to be loaded. Then it will actually go to 4200 shipped via rail or truck. If it goes by rail it is likely to go back to 4b00 when it is at the rail yard waiting for a truck to transport to the dealer and possible to see a 4800 while waiting to be shipped to the dealer. Then it will go to 4200 one last time as it is actually dispatched to the dealer. Once the dealer has it a 5000 will post up and then once you have signed paperwork it will go to 6000.
    11/09/2010 – (3800) Order produced and vehicle is being prepared for shipping.
    11/10/2010 – (4000) Vehicle available to ship
    11/10/2010 – (4150) Invoiced (Order is invoiced to the dealer)
    11/10/2010 – (4B00) Your car is bayed and is waiting for transportation by Truck, Rail or transfer to vendor
    11/10/2010 – (4B00) Your car is bayed and is waiting for transportation by Truck, Rail or transfer to vendor
    11/22/2010 – (4200) Shipped (Vehicle is shipped to the dealer or point of delivery)
    12/03/2010 – (5000) Delivered To Dealer
    12/03/2010 – (4200) Shipped (Vehicle is shipped to the dealer or point of delivery)
    12/03/2010 – (4B00) Your car is bayed and is waiting for transportation by Truck, Rail or transfer to vendor
    12/03/2010 – (4800) Rail Ramp Unload

    Rusty, Friday Dec 10, 10PM
    I did speak with my dealer today (sales manager) and he agreed invoice in hand I can get financing and pay for the car this year. That’ll set my tax refund in place even if I don’t take delivery this year. I know others are talking about that, but I hadn’t confirmed it here in California.
    The other thing he said is once the loan closes the dealer can put the funds in escrow, contingent on satisfactory delivery. That way if in the unfortunate instance of a car getting munched in transport, I can walk away from the purchase and pay off the loan from the escrow account.


  19. 19
    Electrik

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:11 am)

    I think its a shame that Paine declined to interview Lyle for the movie. If anyone embodied the spirit of the “Revenge of the Electric Car” IMO it would be Lyle.

    That is what drew me to this site in the first place over 2 years ago and has kept me coming back practically every day. This site wasn’t just about the Volt. It was about a steadfast commitment to see electric cars (EREV or BEV) become mainstream so we can eliminate our dependence on forein oil (someday) and hopefully clean up the air in the process.

    Yes, it focused on the Volt but it covered a wide range of topics as well. The postings and commentary have been some of the most informative and thought-provoking I’ve seen on the electric car topic. I will hold my judgement until I see the movie but I’d be willing to bet it would have made for a better movie if Lyle and other regulars on this site were profiled.


  20. 20
    MichaelH

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:13 am)

    Roy H,

    Make that 483.

    12/10/2010 – (3800) Order produced and vehicle is being prepared for shipping.
    - VIN 483


  21. 21
    DonC

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:23 am)

    Congrats to Nissan and Carlos Ghosn. Ghosn is really a driving force behind a strategic plan for mass producing EVs. GM has a superior product in the Volt — the Volt is truly an engineering marvel — but Nissan has a more thought through long term plan to be the leader in the EV space worldwide. GM has really been stuck more in the tactical mode with the Volt being thought of as a one-off Prius killing halo car.

    The good thing is that each company is pushing the other to improve. To be successful Nissan is going to have to improve its technology to better compete with GM, and to be successful GM is going to have to beef up its business plan so that it’s something more than “we’ll build some of these and we’ll see” if it expects to compete with Nissan. Competition is good and hopefully both companies will sell hundreds of thousands of these vehicles each year.


  22. 22
    volt11

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:25 am)

    And thus did GM allow Nissan to beat them to market with the first retail delivery of a new wave of electric vehicles, and for no plausible reason.


  23. 23
    MichaelH

     

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:31 am)

    MichaelH,
    Make that 485.

    VIN #485
    Code 3800
    Volt Produced a month earier than I was told. What’s the complainin’ for?

    (Can’t keep up.)


  24. 24
    neutron

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:31 am)

    With the launch of this electric car can it be stated we are entering another “phase”


  25. 25
    Roy H

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:40 am)

    volt11: And thus did GM allow Nissan to beat them to market with the first retail delivery of a new wave of electric vehicles, and for no plausible reason.    

    GM has never been in a “race” to produce this car. They have their own timeline and are sticking to it. First Volt came off the production line in May this year and hundreds were built to be torture tested before salable units would be made available. If GM wanted to, they could have shortened the test time considerably and started delivering Volts months ago.


  26. 26
    nasaman

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:44 am)

    DonC: Congrats to Nissan and Carlos Ghosn. Ghosn is really a driving force behind a strategic plan for mass producing EVs. GM has a superior product in the Volt — the Volt is truly an engineering marvel — but Nissan has a more thought through long term plan to be the leader in the EV space worldwide. GM has really been stuck more in the tactical mode with the Volt being thought of as a one-off Prius killing halo car.

    The good thing is that each company is pushing the other to improve. To be successful Nissan is going to have to improve its technology to better compete with GM, and to be successful GM is going to have to beef up its business plan so that it’s something more than “we’ll build some of these and we’ll see” if it expects to compete with Nissan. Competition is good and hopefully both companies will sell hundreds of thousands of these vehicles each year.

    Well said, Don! …and well worth repeating! I hope management at both GM & Nissan read this!
    .


  27. 27
    bookdabook

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:46 am)

    Wow Chris Paine really blew it not interviewing you and talking about the impact your site has had on all of this. Blogs by ordinary people are modern mechanisms of information dispersal. That not withstanding it looks like a cool movie I will have to see.

    Where’s the Volts!
    Waitin’ on #135
    -Book


  28. 28
    Noel Park

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:56 am)

    You go Carlos!


  29. 29
    bookdabook

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (12:01 pm)

    Leaf Congrats Haiku

    Little car, big step.
    Plug it in, watch as it goes.
    Define car now boys.


  30. 30
    stuart22

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (12:21 pm)

    Interesting tidbit, Lyle, on the film’s producer not contacting you despite being advised to so do. I hope I’m wrong, but that suggests to me the general tone of the film won’t go as far as it could have gone to polish away the dirty image GM ended up with after the first film hit the theatres. I hope the film takes a neutral, middle of the road tone – I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

    Good for Nissan and the LEAF, it’s a long road ahead. Ghosn has Jim Jones status amongst the EV community but beyond? There’s so, so much more to do, so many gaps to be filled before the future he claims will happen.

    Thanks to the Volt, it will someday happen and Ghosn can thank GM for that. Because without the Volt, the future of EVs would be very shaky. The LEAF and other EVs soon to follow are not ready for prime time – limited in range; hours needed to refuel; expensive battery costs – they would hit a brick wall with the mass market, and demand for technological breakthroughs would consequently evaporate.

    The Volt is the EV world’s lifeline to the future. It is mass market compatible right now, and as costs come down, it and its offspring will become more and more available to the average buyer. Sales will steadily grow, and this will drive demand for the technological breakthroughs in battery technology which will someday bring pure EV’s into mainstream market acceptance.


  31. 31
    Tim Hart

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (12:38 pm)

    Way to go Nissan. I’m sure most of us would prefer a pure EV–but who can wait for a 300 mile battery and quick-charge stations all over the place? I really hope that happens but in the meantime I’ll be driving a Volt.


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    Noel Park

     

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (12:42 pm)

    bookdabook: bookdabook(Quote) (Reply)

    bookdabook: Leaf Congrats HaikuLittle car, big step.
    Plug it in, watch as it goes.
    Define car now boys.    

    #28

    Most excellent! +1


  33. 33
    Noel Park

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (12:45 pm)

    stuart22: Good for Nissan and the LEAF, it’s a long road ahead.

    #29

    “The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.”

    “Lead, follow, or get out of the way.”


  34. 34
    Terryk

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (1:03 pm)

    No matter how good or bad the Leaf is, it’s still a great step forward in the bigger picture.

    1. It’s an indication that the car companies now see EV’s as viable.

    2. Sure, it’s nothing but an EV1 rehash but it’s using newer batteries and electronics. There is plenty to be learned by everyone (even if it’s what not to do.) The more real-world data, the better for everyone. You can bet the follow-ons from Nissan will consider that.

    3. There are many people that don’t need any more than what the Leaf offers. The Leaf fits it’s market. If you keep that in perspective, Leaf is a good car.

    I am just happy to see the companies stepping out there with pure EV mode cars. They can fine tune the capabilities as they go.


  35. 35
    Harrier

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (1:04 pm)

    Congrats to the Leaf, Nissan and the loyal Leaf fans who visit our site. There is plenty of room on this path and we are glad to have you on the road with us.

    Revenge of the electric car:
    It is likely that Lyle did not fit into how they wanted to tell the story. This is to say that they are focusing on four individuals in the emerging EV market and will probably use as many neutral sources around the auto world as they can to paint the picture.

    This is just speculation but it is very clear that Lyle is Volt cheerleader #1. Still, a shame that they did not interview him and include him in the film.

    Harrier


  36. 36
    nasaman

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (1:15 pm)

    Lyle: “I started GM-Volt.com without having known about the EV-1 story at all, and having never heard of or seen the original film. Of note Paine declined to interview me for the film despite GM’s strong suggestions that he do, due to the role of this site in the car’s development.”

    I’m disappointed but not at all surprised Chris Paine didn’t interview you Lyle, despite the fact your work here has made a major (perhaps crucial) contribution to GM’s decision to produce the Volt. I’ve lived and worked among many aerospace industry super stars (and a few film industry super stars) for much of my life. The space folks and the movie folks have one very vital character trait in common: They’re both gutsy almost to the point of insanity in that they routinely take huge chances on risky ideas, whether they’re worth millions or virtually penniless! The very wealthy could lose it all almost overnight, and both they and the ‘poor working slobs’ also risk never working in their field again if their colossal concept ultimately fails. Elon Musk, Carlos Goshen, Bob Lutz, Chris Paine himself (and many others I know personally) have this character trait in common. Risk takers are exciting characters —that’s why I always enjoyed the old “A-Team” series and more recently “24″!

    Meaning no offense, Lyle, you don’t qualify! You’re not borderline insane, although you may treat some patients who are. If the Volt, the Leaf and the whole world-wide electrification movement fails, you’re not at risk even though you’ve contributed considerably to the momentum of this movement! You’ve exemplified yourself in the secure, well-compensated field of neurology, which is your full-time ‘risk-mitigating’ occupation. Highly admirable, yes! Cerebral, yes! But not so “ragged edge, gonads-
    out exciting” characters like Chris Paine needs to make a success of “Revenge”.

    Enjoy the film & be glad you’re not in it!


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (1:23 pm)

    This LEAF story is on today’s financial section front page of the SF Chronicle. Notably PG&E’s (Bay Area’s electric utility) monitoring EV’s being delivered. So that EV owners can arrange for special PG&E rates. This all being in concert with Bay Area’s clean air authority having installed 400 public charging stations and plan another 400.

    Petaluma’s a little less than an hour’s drive North of SF. The new LEAF #1 owner actually lives in Redwood City about the same distance South of SF.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (1:29 pm)

    joe: Adam,
    We don’t hate the people who buy the Leaf. What we hate is the Leaf with it’s mediocre engineering and looks.    

    Dude, keep your eyes on the prize here… the EV movement’s about bankrupting Bin Laden and breathing cleaner air. Hating the LEAF is ridiculous and NOT a prerequisite to loving the Volt.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (1:32 pm)

    Streetlight: Petaluma’s a little less than an hour’s drive North of SF. The new LEAF #1 owner actually lives in Redwood City about the same distance South of SF.

    Yikes! Let’s all hope he’s not stranded just trying to reach home! …lots of BAD publicity for EVs!

    .


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    60Hertz

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (1:37 pm)

    If Dan Akerson wouldn’t be caught dead in a Prius, I can only imagine what he might say about the Leaf. IMO – The Leaf is butt ugly, and I wouldn’t buy one for that reason, regardless of its technical merits. Still, I have to hand it to Nissan for at least talking about building EV’s in quantity. Even if production of a half-million per year turns out to be so much hot air, I like that they are thinking big and bold. I suppose GM’s ultra-conservative rollout of the Volt is necessary, given their precarious financial situation. But it’s a shame that GM has such a great car in the Volt (and sharp looking too!), but they are taking timid baby steps building it.


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    tassieEV

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (2:11 pm)

    Congrats to Nissan for getting the Leaf out there. Although in my personal circumstances being a single parent with one car the Leaf won’t be suitable for my circumstances I am glad to see EV’s finally starting to be delivered.

    I look forward to seeing the first Volt delivery as well which isn’t far away. Personally the Volt looks better than the Leaf but beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say. I won’t see a Volt here in Australia until 2012 at the earliest so I am hoping that between now and then in the launch markets the EV manufacturer’s have chosen will do well beyond expectations of the manufacturers.

    It sounds like 2012 will also be a very interesting year as many other manufacturers will be bringing in EV’s, such as Toyota, Tesla Model S, BMW, etc. Let’s stop foreign oil and put our money into domestic electric energy production.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (2:17 pm)

    joe: It might make for a good car around the city with warm weather, if you can stand the looks of it.

    Assuming you don’t have to navigate too many of these. I wonder if Leaf’s NAV has hill avoidance mode?

    SanFran_Hill.jpg


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    DonC

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (2:33 pm)

    Adam: Oh, I see, you hate him because he got a Leaf, and didn’t stick with the Volt. You guys are a bunch of haters

    Actually from what I’ve seen, and I’ve seen a fair amount, there is about 3X more petty hating on the Volt in the Leaf forum than there is hating on the Leaf here. So if you feel strongly about the bad form of it all you should post a similar message there with respect to the juvenile insults thrown at GM and the Volt which frequently appear there.

    If you’re not willing to do that then you’re part of the problem not part of the solution.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (2:33 pm)

    Hi #38 nasaman: Its OK. There’s a PR at SF City Hall – where hopefully there’s a charger.

    Piece of trivia…Here in Alameda (across the Bay from SF) when Alameda NAS (Naval base) was decommissioned around 1997 all the publicity was about the old base becoming a hot bed of EV R&D. So we had a bevy of EV start-ups. These home-brew EV’s – both battery and fuel cell – were basically junk. But the exercise, for several years having an annual base EV event, was one of the primary factors that brought about California’s EV role. (Notwithstanding we were gassing ourselves.)


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (2:50 pm)

    From the advert in evnow‘s post 7,

    “It’s the first and only mass-produced electric car in the world.”

    They must not have gotten the memo.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (2:52 pm)

    Eco_Turbo,

    That gives me a headache just looking at it! Yikes.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (2:56 pm)

    Now that I work from home most of the time (and my commute is about 35 miles when I have to go in), the leaf would work for 99% of my travel. We have an Odyssey for longer trips (and my wife’s daily commute) and could probably keep my ancient malibu as the backup/teen driver car. While I’d prefer a volt, it’s only a 4 seater and I need 5 seats, which may trump the mileage issue for me (though given my location, I probably will get to wait for the next generation of either car, anyway).


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    Doug Korthof

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:08 pm)

    (click to show comment)


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:10 pm)

    (click to show comment)


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:13 pm)

    Mike-o-Matic: From the advert in evnow’s post 7, They must not have gotten the memo.  (Quote)  (Reply)

    What memo ? Volt is a hybrid (except may be for a few on this forum).


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:34 pm)

    “Revenge” will be a documentary of four men that started producing electric cars.

    GM-VOLT is the real life adventure of the drivers who demanded extended range electric cars, started by one man who created and managed the number one web site to get them produced.

    LYLE, YOU’RE THE MAN.


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    Chuck B

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:35 pm)

    Anybody know if ordering my Volt today would still get me a VIN before the end of the year? And if the sale is done this year (I need the tax credit THIS year especially…) do I have to actually start making payments before I take delivery?


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    speedy

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:40 pm)

    Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t Volt’s being build brought now?


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:43 pm)

    Keep ‘em honest,

    Hey, consumers don’t love all cars and just because it’s electric does not mean I have to love it. What I hate is Nissan hurrying up an ugly electric car so they can look as the leader in that field. GM EV1 was just as advance 15 years ago except then the battery technology was not as good. Also, Ghosh brags about selling 500k when their is no infrastructure for electric cars.

    I wish we could get off oil with the Leaf, but I afraid an all electric car is not the solution. If you live in the real world, you’ll admit what I’m saying is true, but if you live in a dream world, then keep on dreaming.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:47 pm)

    evnow:
    What memo ? Volt is a hybrid (except may be for a few on this forum).    

    Really? Take the electric motor out of any hybrid, and it still drives down the road off its gas engine for miles and miles.

    Take the electric motors out of the Volt, and it won’t go.

    To write off the Volt as just another hybrid only reveals the level of denial EV purists have. I’ll bet they secretly wish they were driving a Volt instead of their polluting gassermobile when they drive beyond the range of their BEVs.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:48 pm)

    Chuck B: Anybody know if ordering my Volt today would still get me a VIN before the end of the year?And if the sale is done this year (I need the tax credit THIS year especially…) do I have to actually start making payments before I take delivery?    

    There are dealers who have Volts available in various stages of production. To get a VIN this year would most likely require that you find one with an existing VIN, as there is no guarantee that someone with a status of 3300 would get the Volt produced in time. Go to Chevrolet.com and start searching today to see what Volts are available.

    The iPhone app “Chevrolet Showroom” will also display the Volts that the dealers have for sale.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (3:56 pm)

    Mark Z: There are dealers who have Volts available in various stages of production. To get a VIN this year would most likely require that you find one with an existing VIN, as there is no guarantee that someone with a status of 3300 would get the Volt produced in time. Go to Chevrolet.com and start searching today to see what Volts are available.
    The iPhone app “Chevrolet Showroom” will also display the Volts that the dealers have for sale.    

    Thanks… I did stop by my local Volt-selling Chevy… they only had 1 not spoken for that was on the way… not with the options I wanted. I do know what I want, and was willing to wait to have it made just for me, but what it sounds like you’re saying is that you don’t think I’d be able to do that AND get a VIN this year… crap. And slightly off topic… anyone know if the Onstar mobile app will work on the Windows Phone 7 I have on its way? :)


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:00 pm)

    60Hertz,

    It does not make sense for Nissan to build half a million cars, not knowing if they will have customers for them. If that’s what Nissan want to do let them and see how long they last.

    GM has a flex assembly line and they can and will build Volts for the demand. They don’t have to brag and say they’ll build half a million when they have no idea if the market is going to be that huge. Who’s the smarter one, Nissan or GM?


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:01 pm)

    stuart22:
    The Volt is the EV world’s lifeline to the future.It is mass market compatible right now, and as costs come down, it and its offspring will become more and more available to the average buyer.Sales will steadily grow, and this will drive demand for the technological breakthroughs in battery technology which will someday bring pure EV’s into mainstream market acceptance.    

    These wise words sum up the historical significance of the car. Thank you GM! And please hurry up and bring out a Volt model I can afford in my lifetime.


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    Sherret Chase

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:09 pm)

    (click to show comment)


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    FLASH

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:11 pm)

    Doug Korthof,

    Alright, pay attention here, Doug!!! Nobody said the VOLT is an EV. It IS an EREV. MAYBE a “hybrid,” (Of course, only in the TRUEST sense of the word, BTW) a PHEV if you like that term better, but at the VERY least, the VOLT IS A DUAL FUEL VEHICLE THAT IS READY FOR THE MASSES NOW…………..;^)

    You sound like an educated man, so I find it hard to believe that you are even HALF as IGNORANT as you are coming across, BTW!!!


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:19 pm)

    hercule,

    Like I said before, it might make a good second car, but not many will be able to afford a Leaf for limited trips.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:20 pm)

    FLASH: Doug Korthof, Alright, pay attention here, Doug!!! Nobody said the VOLT is an EV. It IS an EREV. MAYBE a “hybrid,” (Of course, only in the TRUEST sense of the word, BTW) a PHEV if you like that term better, but at the VERY least, the VOLT IS A DUAL FUEL VEHICLE THAT IS READY FOR THE MASSES NOW…………..;^)You sound like an educated man, so I find it hard to believe that you are even HALF as IGNORANT as you are coming across, BTW!!!  (Quote)  (Reply)

    SORRY–got timed out….

    (Which, BTW, GREATLY reduces our demand on foreign oil, so as to NOT send a 1/2 TRILLION BUCKS to TERRORISTS each and every year!!!)
    //which increases exponentially, BTW


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:29 pm)

    I could never buy a vehicle like leaf simply because it would be real poor contingency planning. What if i get stuck in a blizzard on the highway. With a tank full in a normal car i could survive. In Leaf? Much less likely. What if i need to suddenly take my kids to the doctor and there is no charge left in the car? Again, filling up a gas tank is quick and if it has to fits even into an emergency drive. No such luck with slowly filling batteries.

    Until BEV-s become such that they can be charged up in minutes and last at least 300 miles in all weather conditions, they’re pretty much a bad buy from my perspective. A rich kid’s toy (3rd car after a lambo and a hummer) in fine climate where nothing serious ever happens.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:42 pm)

    Chuck B:
    Thanks… I did stop by my local Volt-selling Chevy… they only had 1 not spoken for that was on the way… not with the options I wanted.I do know what I want, and was willing to wait to have it made just for me, but what it sounds like you’re saying is that you don’t think I’d be able to do that AND get a VIN this year…     

    You can always try. Better to try then wonder if it would have happened. But you would have to find a dealer who has immediate allocation and better yet, a dealer who has an existing order in progress that could still be changed to the features you want.

    When we placed our orders months ago we didn’t know if delivery would occur this year. We are still hoping the Volts will be delivered to the dealers before Christmas Day. Maybe they will start shipping next week.

    Don’t forget to search other dealers as well. The iPhone app allows color selection, but that limits the number of cars available.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:50 pm)

    FLASH: Doug Korthof,
    Alright, pay attention here, Doug!!!Nobody said the VOLT is an EV.It IS an EREV.MAYBE a “hybrid,” (Of course, only in the TRUEST sense of the word, BTW) a PHEV if you like that term better, but at the VERY least, the VOLT IS A DUAL FUEL VEHICLE THAT IS READY FOR THE MASSES NOW…………..;^)You sound like an educated man, so I find it hard to believe that you are even HALF as IGNORANT as you are coming across, BTW!!!    

    Doug Korthof sounds like an educated man?? I like he sounds like a moronic ass.


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    DonC

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:50 pm)

    Chuck B: Anybody know if ordering my Volt today would still get me a VIN before the end of the year? And if the sale is done this year (I need the tax credit THIS year especially…) do I have to actually start making payments before I take delivery?

    In order to be eligible for the tax credit you need to have the Volt “placed in service” before Jan 1, 2011. A VIN number won’t do it.

    But this is really not a problem. Just lease the car, make all payments up front, and then buy it. That will effectively get you the tax credit since the lessor will take it and knock $7500 off your price.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:56 pm)

    At 1:30 PM today PDT, Olivier Chalouhi will be turning over a new LEAF.

    Another chapter in automobile history!

    Today I want to forward the idea of a write-in campaign to GM for Lyle Dennis to get his new Volt on the house, in gratitude for services beyond the call of duty – from GM.

    Can anyone find the best snail mail address to send to – or a direct email address to Mr. Reuss?

    PUMP OUT THE VOLTS! ( in all 50 states ),

    James


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:57 pm)

    stuart22: To write off the Volt as just another hybrid only reveals the level of denial EV purists have.

    Actually they’re not actually “purists”. If you ask them what they’ll do if they need to drive further, they’ll say they’ll “use my other car”. IOW two cars, one using gas and one using only electric, is somehow superior to just having a car that uses both. I never understand why anyone could possibly think a “hybrid two car” solution was better than a “one hybrid” solution but it seems perfectly obvious to them.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (4:59 pm)

    volt11,

    I thought the same thing, but I did go to his website, so I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, as it were………….;^)

    //The really CRAZY thing is, he ACTUALLY uses the term EREV on his site………go figure!!!


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:09 pm)

    evnow: What memo ? Volt is a hybrid (except may be for a few on this forum).

    Technically speaking I’d say the memo from Carlos Ghosn. When talking about the number of electric vehicles which Nissan will sell, he always says that all forms of hybrids. even parallel hybrids, are electric vehicle. And if you claim that parallel hybrids are electric vehicles then obviously you have to say that a plug in serial hybrid, which really is an electric vehicle, falls within that definition.

    But in reality all these claims about the Volt being an EREV and not a serial hybrid or the Nissan being a “true” EV is just marketing BS.


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    Albert Sanders

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:09 pm)

    Anyone who says the Volt merely transfers the pollution from its tailpipe to a coal-fired central generating station is correct–partially. The electric car is a true bridge, not to nowhere, as in Alaska, but to somewhere we want to go–an electric economy. First, pollution is more easily controlled at a coal-fired central generating station, so there will be less of it. Second, Many central generating stations are gas-fired, which reduces pollution still further. Third, many states generate hydropower, which results in no pollution at all. Fourth, concentrating solar power plants are being built which will entirely eliminate pollution. Dependence on unaffordable, unreliable foreign oil will also end. This is the ultimate solution.

    We have forgotten that Henry Ford, the genius of capitalism and auto mass production, got almost nowhere until the government built paved roads everywhere. Until then, the car was of use only to city dwellers on paved streets. Cars were useless on all the rutted mudhole roads elsewhere. The car would have been useless without good taxpayer-built roads.

    In the same way, solar electricity generation is the natural partner of the electric car.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:10 pm)

    The natives are getting restless. The live Leaf video stream is over a half hour late and the comments are getting slightly heated on the facebook page.

    Maybe they are charging the car before delivery to the first customer.

    Refreshed the screen. Big mistake, it’s not working for me.

    According to one post, “Nissan just said they are working on the problem.”


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:28 pm)

    Mark Z said:
    The natives are getting restless. The live Leaf video stream is over a half hour late and the comments are getting slightly heated on the facebook page.

    I HEAR that traffic SUX in Cali——
    //crickets……

    /chirp…CHIRP…chirp…CHIRP

    they MUST have run out of BATTERY power!!!???………….;^)

    SOMEBODY will get FIRED over that absolute DEBACLE………..;^)


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    Eco_Turbo

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:33 pm)

    Sherret Chase: Otherwise we will soon see accessory carts with little standby generators being towed around by so called electric cars to assure additional range.

    It might be hard to tow around an ownership share. 8-)


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:34 pm)

    FLASH: Mark Z said:
    The natives are getting restless. The live Leaf video stream is over a half hour late and the comments are getting slightly heated on the facebook page.I HEAR that traffic SUX in Cali——
    //crickets……/chirp…CHIRP…chirp…CHIRPSOMEBODY will get FIRED over that absolute DEBACLE………..;^)    

    I’m waiting to see it, too, definitely embarrassing for someone, if not job-ending! Note to GM, no live video feeds from first deliveries!


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:37 pm)

    FLASH: volt11,
    I thought the same thing, but I did go to his website, so I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, as it were………….;^)//The really CRAZY thing is, he ACTUALLY uses the term EREV on his site………go figure!!!    

    IMO, his post’s language with all the “Volt-hoax” BS is typically the work of someone with an agenda, more often than not political. It might as well be Rush Limbaugh, at which point for me it’s “move along, nothing to see here.”


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:39 pm)

    Leaf is delivered. Live feed not functioning.

    =D-Volt

    leafdelivered.jpg?t=1292107116


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:44 pm)

    DonC,

    DonC: In order to be eligible for the tax credit you need to have the Volt “placed in service” before Jan 1, 2011. A VIN number won’t do it.
    But this is really not a problem. Just lease the car, make all payments up front, and then buy it. That will effectively get you the tax credit since the lessor will take it and knock $7500 off your price.    

    I was told that having a VIN could get the order done and official… for tax purposes… by a Volt dealer. Is this incorrect?


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:46 pm)

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:48 pm)

    volt11,

    TOTALLY agree, but you might check out his site–TONS of interesting info about the EV1, RAV4EV, etc…….;^)


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:48 pm)

    volt11:
    I’m waiting to see it, too, definitely embarrassing for someone, if not job-ending! Note to GM, no live video feeds from first deliveries!    

    I visited the livestream.com web site just to check if things were working there. Other live feeds and videos I tried worked, but the poor Leaf live feed is still lifeless.

    Some of the comments on the Nissan Facebook page from those trying to view have been entertaining.

    My suggestion to Nissan is to hire the Apple Engineers who do the live feeds for Steve Jobs keynote addresses. Those QuickTime live feeds are done amazingly well.

    Nissan has announced “sincerest apologies” and “We experienced technical difficulties.” They posted still pictures and will post the video later. The stills look good and the driver looks very happy sitting in the black Leaf with white interior.

    Maybe we will see footage during the “Revenge” movie.


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    redeye

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:51 pm)

    Poor planning by Japan. Should have made 1st delivery on Dec. 7th


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:52 pm)

    “The company shocked the world when they announced the surprisingly low price of $25,280 after tax credits for the car ($20,280 in California)”
    —————

    You get what you pay for.


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    Mark Z

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (5:57 pm)

    The first Leaf owner.

    63241_10150144181287796_141137487795_8156965_4349306_n.jpg

    For those who have Volts in Detroit, I hope you will be sitting in the driver seat of a new Volt very soon.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (6:08 pm)

    I wonder who will have the first Leaf/Volt accident? How long was it after the Teslas were out where one got squished? It seemed like it was only a couple weeks.


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    60Hertz

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (6:19 pm)

    joe: 60Hertz, It does not make sense for Nissan to build half a million cars, not knowing if they will have customers for them. If that’s what Nissan want to do let them and see how long they last.GM has a flex assembly line and they can and will build Volts for the demand. They don’t have to brag and say they’ll build half a million when they have no idea if the market is going to be that huge. Who’s the smarter one, Nissan or GM?  (Quote)  (Reply)

    This is the classic Japanese business model. Build in quantity before the market is established. Count on high production volume to drive unit cost down. Crush any competition because 1) your product costs less; and 2) your product is readily available everywhere. Japanese companies used this model very successfully, particularly in the consumer electronics arena. It is not without risk and the company better be robust enough to handle some short term losses. But if you pull it off you come out as the market leader and profit for years to come. Could this model work for an EV? Maybe, maybe not. You might not even consider the Leaf to be a direct competitor to the Volt, since there is such a significant difference in capabilities. That said, there is surely some overlap and price is a powerful motivator. If GM can quickly scale up production of the Volt, that’s great. To underestimate the Japanese competition would be a mistake I would hate to see repeated.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (6:29 pm)

    stuart22: Really? Take the electric motor out of any hybrid, and it still drives down the road off its gas engine for miles and miles.

    Well, I’m not into revisionist definitions. Here is the wiki definition.

    “A hybrid vehicle is a vehicle that uses two or more distinct power sources to move the vehicle.[1] The term most commonly refers to hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs), which combine an internal combustion engine and one or more electric motors.”

    Technically Prius is HEV (Hybrid electric vehicle) and Volt as PHEV.

    BTW, will Prius drive without the battery or the electric motor ? I don’t think so.


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    Barry252

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (6:52 pm)

    redeye: Poor planning by Japan. Should have made 1st delivery on Dec. 7th  (Quote)  (Reply)

    ROFLMAO!! Well said!


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    Dave K.

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (7:04 pm)

    redeye: Poor planning by Japan. Should have made 1st delivery on Dec. 7th

    If most of the first 100,000 electric cars on the road turn out to be from Japan so be it. America will have missed the boat if we can’t level the score to 50/50 by the 200,000 mark. Carlos Ghosn sees the tax incentives as a way to make money for Nissan. He’s cranking out thousands of basic EV cars to take the early advantage.
    What EV riches are remaining to mine? An electric truck from an major American manufacturer? Or shall we wait for China and Korea to share this prize?

    =D-Volt


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    Dave K.

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (7:15 pm)

    Comment from a Leaf blog:

    “The Leaf has put a small dagger in the heart of big oil with many more daggers to come. Thanks, Nissan.”

    NPNS


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (7:15 pm)

    Congratulations to Nissan and Mr. Olivier Chalouhi! I sincerely hope Mr Chalouhi’s Leaf works well for him. I personally need more range than a “pure” electric can provide….and as was mentioned earlier, having TWO cars…one pure electric and one conventional is just silly. The Volt does it all in one package.

    To me….the Volt is the better choice due to fact that it is not only a plug in electric….but can in effect be either a series OR parallel hybrid…depending on what is most efficient at a particular speed. Nobody else has anything like this. In effect, the Volt can “Transform” itself from a pure electric to a series hybrid….and sometimes even a parallel hybrid. ( Is this the reason the Volt was featured in the Transformers movie? ) It’s just genius!

    The Leaf is good. I’m glad it’s being produced. Mr. Olivier Chalouhi is a true pioneer. He is one less person sending money to the monsters overseas for oil…. Thats a good thing.

    The Volt is also going to take a HUGE chunk of money out of the terrorist coffers. I hope that someday soon….we will need only the oil we can produce domestically.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (8:36 pm)

    Carlos Ghosn:
    “For more than 100 years of car manufacturing, we have been tethered to the same gasoline engine concept. That is, until now.”

    What a pompous ass! Read a history book. There were many electric cars at the turn of the 20th century. There was a cute little car called the EV-1 just 14 years ago. They no longer exist for the same reason there will NEVER be 500,000 of your electric cars built in a year. Nobody wants a car that will go 50 to 70 miles before taking a 12 hour break.

    Batteries are not good enough yet. Hell, the best selling car in the U.S., the Toyota Camry, sells less than 400,000 copies a year. And YOU THINK YOU CAN SELL 500,000 niche market electric cars? Why don’t you start small, sell 500,000 copies of a conventional car.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (8:48 pm)

    solo: Batteries are not good enough yet.

    Had a week long vacation trip to San Francisco in 2009. It’s a compact city with many forms of low cost alternative transportation available. My family and I made the usual tourist stops. The Wharf, downtown merchants, Chinatown, Golden Gate Bridge…ect. We never traveled over 60 miles per day. The Leaf is well matched to the San Francisco lifestyle.
    The Leaf owner was asked what vehicle his new car will replace. “Electric bicycle”.

    NPNS


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (8:53 pm)

    solo: …the best selling car in the U.S., the Toyota Camry, sells less than 400,000 copies a year. And YOU THINK YOU CAN SELL 500,000 niche market electric cars? Why don’t you start small, sell 500,000 copies of a conventional car.

    422,852 Prius sold in the United States & Japan so far this year.

    One more month of sales to go. Add that plus sales outside of those two markets, the annual half-million milestone looks pretty darn realistic.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (9:12 pm)

    The revolution has begun!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaMeCT_GoO0

    NPNS!


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    kent beuchert

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    Dec 11th, 2010 (9:14 pm)

    (click to show comment)


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (9:28 pm)

    Here’s how I see it: Pure EV’s for city folk, EREV’s for the suburbs. I believe both cars will be successfully embraced by their given audiences. But the rivalry and smack talking is awesome! It will motivate both camps. Bring it on.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (9:30 pm)

    joe: Keep ‘em honest, Hey, consumers don’t love all cars and just because it’s electric does not mean I have to love it. What I hate is Nissan hurrying up an ugly electric car so they can look as the leader in that field. GM EV1 was just as advance 15 years ago except then the battery technology was not as good. Also, Ghosh brags about selling 500k when their is no infrastructure for electric cars. I wish we could get off oil with the Leaf, but I afraid an all electric car is not the solution. If you live in the real world, you’ll admit what I’m saying is true, but if you live in a dream world, then keep on dreaming.  (Quote)  (Reply)

    Who TFRU are to define yourself in the real world while placing those with different needs and likes in a dream world? Almost certainly there won’t be just one solution and sitting on your hands waiting for it won’t help anybody living in this very real world.

    I have issues with Nissan, as expressed above. They should not have billed it as an 100 mile EREV nor should they have created an 8yr/100K mile battery warranty to compete with the Volt’s when it really isn’t a warranty of real substance (no capacity warranty means it’s not much of a warranty). That said, I am very happy they are producing the Leaf and have gusto to their plans. It’s a damn good thing and a shame no American manufacturer beat them to an affordable BEV. In the long run it’s not that big of a deal who started shipping first but rather who find the the right value propositions to bring EVs effectively into the market.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (10:03 pm)

    Congratulations to everyone that has ordered a Leaf, and especially to everyone involved in bringing it to reality. I hope it has almost as much success as the Volt.


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    Dec 11th, 2010 (11:18 pm)

    DonC,

    I remember the day when GM HAD a good EV, and people loved it. You may of heard about it, it was called the EV1. The funny thing is, now ALL auto-makers are scrambling to get something electric going, regardless if it has an onboard generator or not.

    I don’t like Japanese cars, I’d rather keep my money here in the States, however, the attiude GM has given the consumers for a VERY long also leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and that is starting to catch on over at Ford.

    I ponder once in a while, if I had $50k to spend on a NEW car right NOW, I don’t think I would purchase a new car right away. I’d rather let somebody else take the chance, and take the deprication hit for me, the $7500 tax credit should be built in the new price of the car.

    Also, the coment that somebody made earlier that the Leaf running out of charge when he brought it home from the dealership, because he only drove like 60 miles, I know it was a smart a** coment, but when was the last time you purchased a cell phone, and was fully charged? Do you expect the car manyfactures to “Charge” your vehicle before it’s shipped from the plant?

    I do agree on 1 commn thing though, regardless WHO makes the EV’s, it’s FAR BETTER than supporting the middle east, it’s just taken the car manufactures a while to see the light.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (12:26 am)

    Yet again Nissan marketing team Bitch slaps GM marketing team , One has to wonder when GM’s AD people are going to learn to play the game. GM has 400 sellable VOLT’s sitting in a parking lot for weeks . How hard would it have been to to Call Up any body to come pick up there Volt and snap a few PICS !!!!!!! Pure Laziness or worse stupidity.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (12:54 am)

    solo: …Nobody wants a car that will go 50 to 70 miles before taking a 12 hour break.Batteries are not good enough yet..

    I wouldn’t go so far as to say “nobody” but I can say that I personally would not want such a car.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (1:36 am)

    jeff j,

    Right!! What went people get too the limit/range of what the leaf can do and get stranded, on the side of the road. Then they will go back to nissan and there marketing people and slap them for saleing them a car with a very short range.


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    Texas

     

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    Dec 12th, 2010 (1:48 am)

    Dear Carlos, You da man! Congratulations and good luck, as if you needed any. -Texas

    Carlos is also behind the Better Place effort and is delivering pre-production swap capable Fluences to Israel for the year of testing that is starting soon.

    By next year this time the final commercial models will be delivered to customers. They already sold 70,000 units to companies and individuals!

    Carlos, I know you are hot about electric-only but please consider the UTV (Ultimate Transition Vehicle). It combines the EREV drivetrain with a BP swap battery and network software.

    Why is this needed? You can start selling them in huge countries like the U.S. on day one and it provides the incentive to install swap stations. The more swap stations a customer can get to, the cheaper his overall drive. Thus, the pull marketing strategy.

    Eventually, the Fluence can be sold with no genset because there will be a critical mass of infrastructure, something that can take a long time in the U.S. – mostly due to politics.

    It is the foot in the door.


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    Ray@Diy solar panels

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    Dec 12th, 2010 (2:55 am)

    We are very happy that we are the generation that will be experiences the biggest changes that are happening on the earth after the industrial age and one of them is transport with out using and fuel, how is that image every home having a solar panels that produce 4 to 5kw of electricity per hour and a volt that uses around 12kw for 40miles per day :) .


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (3:08 am)

    Nissan grabs a catfish, duct-tapes it to a skateboard, shoves batteries up its ass, calls the fugly thing a Leaf, and they’re to be congratulated for it? How does this gain them any credibility? Purely battery-powered cars have been around for almost as long as there have been cars, so they haven’t innovated a damn thing. This is purely for publicity and utterly unimpressive.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (7:49 am)

    Nissan should emphasize the very low routine maintenance cost of an EV versus ICE vehicle. this is a great selling point. beside routine chassis lubrication, tires rotation and brake service, what else do you need to do!!!


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (8:31 am)

    I just heard that a new Saudi Arabian automaker who just recently went into production is coming out with an electric vehicle!

    It has some very new motor and power electronic innovations that require very special oil cooling. The car will go 100 miles using a mere 100 watts/mile of power.

    The only issue is that you need to change to oil every time you recharge and the oil reservoir is 10 gallons.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (9:38 am)

    Congratulations to Nissan for building America’s first mass-production, modern EV and for deciding to build it in the USA only 30 miles from where I live. The Leaf would work for most of my driving days. For the days that I might be concerned about driving close to its range limit, I’d just take my second vehicle. The Leaf seems like an obvious choice for many 2- or 3-car families.

    Arguing that no one will buy a Leaf due to range limits is a bit like arguing that no one would buy a Volt because it doesn’t have a pickup truck bed. Even though pickup trucks are the #1 selling vehicles in the United States, not everyone needs a pickup. If the Leaf doesn’t work for you, then by all means don’t buy it.

    Like it or not, the look of the Leaf is so distinct that every Leaf will be a rolling billboard for EVs. You can’t really say that about the Volt because it looks like a conventional car.

    Please don’t misinterpret my comments on the Leaf as disparaging the Volt. The Volt is a technological marvel that currently has more appeal to mainstream buyers. We need them both as well as the Prius and all the other new entries to help wean the US off of oil as transportation energy.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (10:00 am)

    The Leaf is a certainly refreshing to see on the market, but regardless of it’s drivetrain, it’s not in the the same class as the Volt. The Volt is much better equipped (Leather interior, Bose Stereo with hard drive, voice control, top-notch soundproofing, control via phone app, etc.) and has significantly more cargo space. That along can justify quite a bit of the price difference between the two.

    Especially here in Canada, small cars are rather popular, and there is a market for luxury small cars. Manufacturers are selling some models here that are not available in the US because there is a demand for them like the Acura CSX (27k$) and Mercedes B-Series (29k$). The Volt is about the same price as an Audi A3 (and cheaper than the A3 TDI). There are a lot of BMW 323s on the road here, and I think a lot of those drivers would consider a Volt because it’s a more exclusive care, regardless of fuel economy or environmental benefits.

    Regardless of the range, I’m not in the market for a Versa-like car, which is essentially what the Leaf is. There are a lot of people willing to pay more for more features, and most of those people will choose the Volt.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (2:13 pm)

    Adam: For those hating the Leaf, and the temp. control, mixed with the range limitations…The lucky guy who purchased the 1st leaf, do you know what type of commute he has?No?Do you know what his driving style is?No?Oh, I see, you hate him because he got a Leaf, and didn’t stick with the Volt.You guys are a bunch of haters, if your not Pro-Volt, you get nailed with severe hatred!!!!I’d like to see at LEAST -1000 nexto to my name today, but I’m afraid there’s not enough haters on this site to grant that wish, because SOME people like the Leaf.    

    Dude, I haven’t seen a single post here with hatred towards the 1st LEAF owner, or any LEAF owner for that matter. Very few people here even actually hate the car itself. Why would you hate it, it doesn’t make sense. Hate is such a strong word. People here may not like the LEAF, that doesn’t mean they hate it. A lot of people even appreciate it for what it is, even as they recognize it’s not the car for them.

    What we don’t appreciate however is when others come here and post over-inflated specs and ridiculous claims about the LEAF, saying it’s the greatest thing since slice bread and far superior than anything else including the Volt. What do you expect? You go into the lion’s den, even taunt him and you blame him for attacking you? This site is a supporter of all types of electric car technologies, but it’s primarily a supporter of the Volt. In my mind, the LEAF boasters who get trashed by others here for insulting the Volt have had it coming to them. If they don’t like it they should stop posting here.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (2:49 pm)

    60Hertz: This is the classic Japanese business model. Build in quantity before the market is established. Count on high production volume to drive unit cost down. Crush any competition because 1) your product costs less; and 2) your product is readily available everywhere. Japanese companies used this model very successfully, particularly in the consumer electronics arena. It is not without risk and the company better be robust enough to handle some short term losses. But if you pull it off you come out as the market leader and profit for years to come.

    That may be, but in this case we clearly know that the LEAF won’t effectively be available everywhere, not for a long time, only in places with relatively mild climates that are also fairly urban where range isn’t much of an issue. So if price is one up it has on the Volt, then the Volt has one up on the LEAF by being available literarily everywhere where one can drive (at least in the long run). There’s no corner of the world where it doesn’t make sense to drive a Volt. So yeah, I think Nissan will have a big problem on their hands if they miscalculated the number of people who are not only willing, but who are also able to drive a LEAF. Half a million seems like an awfully large number of electrics compared to the number of electrics on the road today (virtually none). And it’s price, while cheaper than the Volt, is by no means cheap compared to other similar cars. Oh well, they can at least cut production if things go sour.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (3:04 pm)

    john1701a:
    422,852 Prius sold in the United States & Japan so far this year.One more month of sales to go.Add that plus sales outside of those two markets, the annual half-million milestone looks pretty darn realistic.    

    But wait, I didn’t think he said they’ll sell 500,000/year by 2024 did he? Because that’s how long it took Prius to get to that level. And that’s with a conventional car for which you don’t have to worry about range or weather extremes. Don’t get me wrong, if they can sell 500,000 units per year any time soon, all the power to them. I just won’t believe it until I see it.


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (3:13 pm)

    solo: Carlos Ghosn:
    “For more than 100 years of car manufacturing, we have been tethered to the same gasoline engine concept. That is, until now.”
    What a pompous ass! Read a history book. There were many electric cars at the turn of the 20th century. There was a cute little car called the EV-1 just 14 years ago. They no longer exist for the same reason there will NEVER be 500,000 of your electric cars built in a year. Nobody wants a car that will go 50 to 70 miles before taking a 12 hour break.

    I think it’s ironic he used the word “tethered”. I mean really? he couldn’t come up with a better word? We may have been slaves to the gasoline engine but we have certainly not been “tethered”. In fact you’ll be “tethered” if you drive a BEV like the LEAF. Freudian slip?


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    Dec 12th, 2010 (3:38 pm)

    Dave K.:
    Had a week long vacation trip to San Francisco in 2009. It’s a compact city with many forms of low cost alternative transportation available. My family and I made the usual tourist stops. The Wharf, downtown merchants, Chinatown, Golden Gate Bridge…ect. We never traveled over 60 miles per day. The Leaf is well matched to the San Francisco lifestyle.
    The Leaf owner was asked what vehicle his new car will replace. “Electric bicycle”.NPNS    

    I’ve also had a week long trip to San Francisco, also in 2009. What I found remarkable is that I didn’t need a car at all to get around. I ended up walking everywhere and rented a bike one day. And I didn’t just go around a few blocks either. I walked and biked from my hotel downtown all the way to the Golden Gate bridge and back (and I’m not the athletic type, I’d rather drive if I can). I was surprised that everything was so close by. I don’t know that the LEAF has anything particularity appealing to San Franciscans more so than any other car, other than the fact that I reckon a lot of folks like to be environmentally friendly down there.

    I actually did get a ride one day through the city from someone with a stick-shift and he even went up one of those steep hills so that we could go down Lombard street. Man, what a riot! :) I thought he killed his car! We had to stop frequently because there was a lineup and every time we’d start climbing again he’d have to quickly let go of the brake and immediately slam on the accelerator otherwise the car would start rolling backwards and the tires would then shriek like crazy! Cars behind us quickly learned to keep their distance. It would be interesting to know how well EVs can handle these hills. They should handle them a lot better than a stick-shift though, LOL!


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    emod79

     

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    Dec 12th, 2010 (3:49 pm)

    I feel it is a big mistake not giving Lyle a small spot in the film. In my IMHO Lyle has and still does play a big role with the Volt. And no Fisker in the trailer?


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    pjkPA

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    Dec 12th, 2010 (7:35 pm)

    Lyle.. so tell me .. why didn’t you call this site Nissan-leaf.com?

    How much will the VOLT cost in Japan?

    Oh.. I see .. .you don’t want to go there.


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    Hoang Pham

     

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    Dec 13th, 2010 (12:07 pm)

    Tom: I hope he does not live more than 60 or so miles from the dealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Why did man have to go to the moon? Because we need to learn to go to Mars. Why we need to go to Mars…Because we need to go further in space…and for all of these to happen we need to start somewhere, perhaps we should start get rid of oil bit by bit.

    My 2 cents


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    Dec 13th, 2010 (1:16 pm)

    Adam: Do you expect the car manyfactures to “Charge” your vehicle before it’s shipped from the plant

    Does every car dealer fill up your gas tank when you buy a new car nowaday? If this is true, then I expect them to charge my EV before I take it home or I go to different dealer.

    Clearly, we have a lot of people who still do not believe in EV. That was why EV died in the US ten years ago. That is sad.