Proposed LG Chem Battery Plant in Holland Michigan
After living with the Volt for several days and seeing the reaction of others to it, it seems likely to me GM has a smash hit on their hands.
Certainly there are a group of early adopters who would prefer the purity of a BEV like the LEAF, but the Volt offers the best of both world. It allows one to drive the majority of the time on electricity yet has strong mainstream appeal. Though pricing of the first generation is a bit high, at least 7% of the auto buying public is believed to be capable of affording the car, even more at the lease price of $350 per month.
GM has only thus far committed to building 10 to 15,000 Volts in 2011, and 45,000 in 2012 but there are strong indicators both demand and production will outstrip those numbers.
GE’s recent announcement it will buy 12,000 Volts by 2015 will also help spark sales.
GMs Hamtramck plant where the Volt is being built is capable of churning out one volt per minute. Running 3 lines and 3 shifts, the plant could build 250,000 Volts per year. Most of the parts of the Volt are readily available, the only component of tight supply is the lithium-ion battery cells.
According to a report in Reuters, however, Volt battery supplier LG Chem say it expect GM will be asking for more cells than initially anticipated. The Korean manufacture has entered into a 6-year contract with GM to build cells for the Volt.
“(GM said that) its Volt has drawn good response from consumers,” Ham Jae-gynun, LGs senior VP of car batteries told Reuters. ”GM is likely to order far more batteries than we have previously planned for next year.” Jae-gynun did not disclose the size fo the order.
“”We expect GM to ask for more batteries,” he added. ”We hope to supply additional car batteries for Volt.”
LG Chem has the capacity to produce 60 million cells per year in Korea. They have already begun building a plant in Michigan which it self will be capable of producing 20 million annual cells. That plant will start production in 2012. 20 million cells is about what is needed to produce battery packs for 70,000 Chevy Volts which use 288 cells a peice.
GM has to be able to package cells into the battery packs which include controlling and conditioning systems. Their Brownstown plans is believed to be capable of at least 60,000 packs per year at present, but has significant potential for expansion if needed.
Besides GM LG Chem has already received a plethora of order from other car makers including Hyundai, Ford, Volvo and Renault.
Due to all the demand LG Chem is planning construction of a second automotive battery plant in the US, as well as other new plants in China and Europe.
Source (Reuters) and (Marketwatch)
For those of you who couldnt make it to our first Chevy Volt Meetup this past weekend, below are video highlights of the event filmed and produced by our own Dave G.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (7:39 am)20 million cells per year:
That is a good start!!!!!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (7:39 am)I see this as very encouraging news! And if memory serves, the Hamtramck plant where Volts are made can produce as many as 250,000 Volts/year (if the Caddys & Buicks now being made there are discontinued or moved elsewhere). I’m optimistic LG Chem will be able to supply the cells needed to meet GM’s needs —the question is, will GM be able to assemble & test the full batteries needed for as many Volts as 250,000/year?
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Nov 15th, 2010 (7:46 am)This has got to be the best news since the Volt was announced for production! I was concerned that LG Chem might not have the capacity to provide more cells even if GM ordered them. It sounds like LG Chem has the capability and is willing to invest a lot more to keep up with demand.
Corvette Man, I bet your dealership allocation will increase.
Join thE REVolution!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:05 am)Great news. However, at the drive event in San Diego the engineer riding shotgun mentioned that GM was planning for other EV/EREV vehicles on other platforms. Not all the cells that LG Chem is making would necessarily be destined for the Volt.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:10 am)If ever there was an example of WIN/WIN that would be it! Either they go into Volts or they go into other great alternatives from GM.
Most excellent!.
Be well,
Tagamet
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:15 am)GM to unveil new Buick hybrid
http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/15/autos/buick_hybrid/index.htm?hpt=T2
“The new car, which uses a 4-cylinder engine and a lithium-ion battery pack, is expected to get 37 miles-per-gallon on the highway and 25 mpg in the city…
In designing this new system, engineers used information they learned in developing the Chevrolet Volt and GM’s big hybrid SUVs, said Jim Federico, GM’s executive director for compact and electric vehicles…
Besides better fuel economy, there are other reasons to think this hybrid might fare better than GM’s last try. For one thing, there will be no non-hybrid version selling for less money alongside the new hybrid car.”
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:15 am)Looks like a GREAT time was had by all. Sorry I wasn’t there. Dave’s video is wonderful. I noticed on the drive that the window was down a bit and then I started hearing car engine noise – *from other vehicles*! LOL, how wonderful is THAT!
I read the article about all the battery demand, and my first thought was, “Look at all the jobs this will generate”. My second thought was, “I hope LG comes through with the cells”.
It looked like there were a few reporters present. Does anyone know where their article might be?
A good day for electric!
Be well,
Tagamet
Nov 15th, 2010 (8:20 am)Cool video DaveG! Not too much shake-rattle-n-roll.
GM makes millions of lots of things. Volts should be no problem.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:23 am)Wow! I’m so glad I didn’t pull the trigger on a 2010 LaCrosse. I was absolutely in love with that car even though it wasn’t a Volt.
Yummy! Some VOLTEC “eAssist” goodness in a Buick.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:26 am)This Buick is not like the Volt. It will use an electric assist, like a mild hybrid. So it is more like an ICE than an EV.
I am a Buick fan, I still have my 1995 Regal running, but I will not change it for a mild hybrid. I prefer the Volt or a Buick variant. Bring back the Electra!
Raymond
Nov 15th, 2010 (8:28 am)Very interesting article, Dave. Largely because it makes little sense, to me at least. Instead of following the approach of their “big hybrid SUVs”, why not go ahead with the plug-in 2-mode so thoroughly tested already for the VUE SUV? The plug-in Vue used the FWD 2-mode transaxle and a CTS 3.6L V-6 and was still estimated to get >60mpg hwy. With a 4-cyl engine and 8Kwh (“half-Volt”) pack it should be able to achieve >50mpg city & hwy. So what the heck are you thinking, GM, by only shooting for 25mpg city when you could get 50mpg?!?!
PS: Thanks for the great video, Dave!!! It was almost like being there! And I know how extremely time-consuming the editing/uploading can be!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:30 am)Post Title:
LG Chem Expecting GM to Increase Battery Orders
I guess that could only mean one thing, More Voltec Vehicles!!!
Nov 15th, 2010 (8:33 am)That would be nice too. Electra would be a great name for a VOLTEC powered Velite roadster.
Nov 15th, 2010 (8:33 am)That news on the new Buick LaCrosse hybrid is very interesting, finally the BAS + system will come back..
“She added that their engineers didn’t want to sacrifice performance or quietness for the sake of fuel economy. “
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:43 am)GM is recovering better than most expected. With the IPO looking to go better than expected GM may end up pricing over $29 a share. How much do you want to bet that they will also announce Tuesday or Wednesday that due to high demand more Volts will be built in both 2011 and 2012 than previously announced? Which would make the IPO go even better. And now Buick announces a hybrid that is nearly priced right. (2010 Lacrosse MSRP went from $26k to $33K) GM is going from strength to strength. Add in the engineer’s comments about other EREV platforms that may be built, and I have heard more positive GM news in the past couple of days than I have heard in months previously. I hope they build the MPV5 (6 passenger so why the 5 in the name?) first. But an entirely new EREV Canyon/Colorado would be nice too.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (8:48 am)Well, if GM goes with either a BAS + OR a RWD 2-mode, history proves they’ll sacrifice SALES! Both systems have been sales flops! And not surprisingly so, because the buying public perceived their improvement in MPG as LAME!!!
ATTN GM: The market GM, is one with a FULL-hybrid, Lincoln’s MKZ, getting 45mpg, not 25mpg! And they’re selling it for exactly the same price as their non-hybrid MKZ!
Nov 15th, 2010 (9:18 am)nasaman,
When GM gets the cells from LG, I’m sure they will have been already quality tested. Putting the cells in the pack and checking them after the pack is completed is a piece of cake. At this point the pack does not have to be field tested, if that what you mean.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:26 am)Hey Lyle,
Any chance you can post a link on the top nav bar for your daily driving log?
On topic, I hope there’s some environmental considerations with all this production. My understanding is it’s easier (cheaper) to produce these in a non-environmentally friendly way, but maybe I’m just ignorant. I also suspect that the US plants will be inherently more friendly due to regulations here.
join thE REVolution
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:32 am)Excellent idea – right after we get an “Ignore” button (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:36 am)So encouraging! Even though LG isn’t an American company, I’d much rather have S. Korea start cornering the advanced battery market than Japan. I have enjoyed seeing Korea get a little bit of economic revenge the past decade or so.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:40 am)OT, I just checked a couple Hotmail accounts my wife and I have for different purposes than our regular email account, and guess what greeted me – Volt ads. There was an ad on the first screen and another one on the Inbox screen. Progress.
-Michael
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:49 am)I think I can get our dealership to set up a West Coast meet up. That would be fun!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:50 am)Here’s the GM press release on the car:
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/news/news_detail.brand_gm.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/Nov/10los_angeles/1115_gm_lacrosse
This is the belt driven mild hybrid that uses a 0.5 kwh lithium ion battery and an 11 kw motor. It’s called eAssist. I noticed that the marketing department is trying to add a twist to the drivetrain by completely avoiding the word “hybrid” and the inevitable 50 mpg hybrid comparison.
The 4 cylinder in the Lacrosse might be a tough sell, I don’t know if the hybrid version would cut it from behind the wheel as well. But who knows, if a car the size of the LaCrosse can actually return an average of 30 mpg with a relatively low cost system and still retain what we now expect as a new Buick standard ride quality, it might work.
Also, tomorrow Motor Trend announces the Car of the Year. Does GM know something about that? Another one of GM’s press releases starts out with this…
“Warren, Mich. – A General Motors product will receive a significant honor from an outside organization on Tuesday, Nov. 16″
Stay tuned…
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:51 am)That is great news. I’m 99% sure I’m going to buy a Volt and I have a deposit for one in a launch market but to me one of the most exciting things about the Volt is that its Voltec platform can be adopted for other vehicles. The compact nature of the Volt is not ideal for many families but if the platform can be relatively easily transferred to other vehicle lines then the Volt will truly pay off for GM.
To be sure, it appears that the battery technology is not where it needs to be for Voltec to be in trucks or SUVs anytime soon but hopefully the day is not too far away.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:52 am)I’ve been counting on that for months! Make it so.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:52 am)Lyle is right about GM having a hit in their hands. People I talk to who were pretty skeptical and not that interested in the Volt early on are now very intersted and asking me about ordering one. I would guess GM could sell all they could build for at least the next 3 or 4 years.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (9:56 am)Lol. Over 70 miles per day and still averaging 122mpg. Naysayers begone!
Lyle hasn’t even used half-a-tank of the very small gas tank.
http://gm-volt.com/chevrolet-volt-driving-log/
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:05 am)LOL. At least the trolls have been less persistent these days. I think they’re realizing that their efforts to make the Volt look bad is futile.
join thE REVolution
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:05 am)Sorry, you’re mistaken. My 15 years of designing long-life batteries have taught me that the individual cells within a given pack MUST be precisely matched for voltage and capacity (perhaps other parameters, too). Each individual cell must also have by-pass circuitry added to it to prevent an open or shorted cell from affecting overall battery performance. And yes, extensive testing of each Volt full-up battery must be performed to assure its long life. While many of these steps can be automated, I promise you Volt battery assembly and testing is far from a trivial matter!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:15 am)I bought an IROC Z28 long ago that was Motor Trend’s car of the year, and it wasn’t nearly so far ahead of its competition as the Volt is. If Volt isn’t selected as Motor Trend’s COTY it will be unjust
—in fact, an outright travesty!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:19 am)Interesting. It’s an air-cooled battery.
-24
Nov 15th, 2010 (10:19 am)(click to show comment)
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:20 am)Naw, that would involve some rudimentary level of rational thought on their part. Still, it *has* been nice!
Be well,
Tagamet
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:23 am)It’s also a (relatively) tiny battery.
Be well,
Tagamet
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:28 am)One of the best videos yet, and it looks like Dave used a Steadicam. If not, then what camera was used for those exceptionally smooth pans?
Loved the comment about the brakes, definitely cancels yesterday’s troll misinformation.
More battery production is fantastic news. Just like iPhone, part manufacturing quantities give us the news first.
And remember that the first EV-1 used lead acid batteries, then NiHM. Now we use Lithium-ion. Things have changed and that’s why the EV will succeed today and in the future!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:30 am)Strongly agree nasaman.
In my field (software engineering) testing cycles are performed every step of the way. Methodologies such as ITIL are used to ensure a quality product. Intermediate testing by the end user is included in the methodology unlike previous ways of doing things.
Nothing is left to chance anymore. Every build is tested, re-tested, and then tested again. These packages are just too complex for a single engineer to understand the whole thing.
External testing (outside of development) takes more time than development itself. Even small changes can affect the whole product, so, regression testing and load testing are done for things you wouldn’t think need them.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:32 am)If I remember right, it’s also from Hitachi, not LG Chem.
Nov 15th, 2010 (10:43 am)I’ll give you my answer & offer one piece of advice, Mark. My camera is a LUMIX DMC-ZS3 with a Leica lens, HD video & effective optical camera “shake” correction —it’s made by Panasonic. Also, I use a Targa Monopod that minimizes camera movement but still allows smooth, easy panning. You can get the Targa Monopod for $10 at Radio Shack. For a demo of that camera/monopod combination while I’m aggressively driving a Volt, go to… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqmeEB4BL6Y (shot by my teen grandson)
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Nov 15th, 2010 (10:55 am)Aloha from Kauai…
The Volt is now out in the public providing unrestricted demo drives. Is it early to state that GM may see more demand for the Volt than was initially thought? The looming question being, “What will happen when there are 4 or 5 similarly priced EV available to the buying public?”. I believe a Voltec truck model will outsell the Volt. Will EV trucks from other manufactures outsell the Volt?
Remember the dink Motor Trend mentioned in the first Volt demo? “Acceleration is very linear. Maybe GM should add a mock power curve.” Well guess what. GM has with their planetary gear CS assist transmission. The Volt gets up like a well tuned 6 cylinder.
Hard to believe it’s happening. But it sure looks like we’re headed for market share combat for EV’s.
=D-Volt
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Nov 15th, 2010 (11:06 am)OT.
Looks like some GM execs are on a road trip to the LA auto show. Driving Volts of course.
http://chevrolet.posterous.com/
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Nov 15th, 2010 (11:13 am)The Volt ought to be named the Car of the Century for what it means for GM, for the American auto industry, and its world-changing potential. There have been electric cars before, but they’ve never caught on. The Volt will change that – it is destined to be the foundation for a new future of oil-free transportation. The most significant automotive achievement since I can remember.
Nov 15th, 2010 (11:18 am)For vehicles like the Volt, where the primary drive is electric, I’d expect liquid cooled technology. For vehicles using only “battery assist”, the charge/discharge cycles are less aggressive and therefore can be adapted to air cooling. Plus, battery chemistry may be different and allow a greater operating temperature range.
Batteries used in mild hybrids have a narrow SOC window, which ensure that there is always enough energy capacity for acceleration or to accept regen braking energy.
From what I understand, GM is going to use several battery manufacturers in liquid and air cooled configurations (going forward). Those powertrain configurations will depend on the vehicle type.
The next five years should be very interesting.
Nov 15th, 2010 (11:25 am)LGCPI is a small but important part of the effort to gain a 40% global market share in the battery industry by 2015. In looking through LG Chem website at http://www.compactpower.com/news.shtml, I came across this link:
http://www.energy.gov/news2009/7749.htm
“Recovery Act will fund 48 new advanced battery and electric drive components manufacturing and electric drive vehicle deployment projects in over 20 states.”
I believe that the number of new battery plants being constructed is around a dozen that are being jump started with stimulus funds. There will be a sufficient number of battery plants to supply all of the production needs for hybrids, EVs, and EREVs.
As far as environmental impact, LG Chem states that it “use(s)easily recyclable materials.”
http://www.compactpower.com/environment.shtml
All the latest news is very encouraging. LG Chem plans on building a second battery cell manufacturing plant. GM will need to build another battery pack assembly plant. With the added orders for stock in GM’s IPO and inferred increase in price above $29, GM will get the cash infusion needed to build new assembly plants or expand existing facilities. The Brownsville battery pack plant was located at an existing 160,000-square-foot facility so they will be able to expand production. This link provides some additional information on how they will increase production as needed by demand:
http://www.assemblymag.com/Articles/Blog/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000729577
Testing of the battery pack is conducted in the the second part of the plant after final assembly insure the functionality of pack production. The article also states ““In the future, when we have a number of different battery packs in production, this plant will be able to adjust [work flow] based on market demand,”.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Nov 15th, 2010 (11:27 am)Looking back on the event, my only mistake was I should have had some extension cords out in the parking lot so the volts could plug and recharge while they were sitting there.
I though about it and was worrying about it being a tripping hazard. Next spring I would like to host another meet, this time we can have some happy volt owners bring their cars by. I’d love to see 20 volts of various colors filling up the parking lot. I will definitely figure out a safe way to have electricity available so they can plug in while they are on display.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (11:29 am)Thanks for the info. Amazing results and great camera work.
Nov 15th, 2010 (11:33 am)That raises the question of what your future intentions are: will you be installing charging stations, i.e. 120volt outlets, for your customers to use when they frequent you establishment with their EV’s? I think that we all can guess the answer.
As far as the missing cords, I agree, safety of your customers is paramount.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (11:34 am)I’m guessing that you just fostered a few hundred Volt smiles.
Be well,
Tagamet
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Nov 15th, 2010 (11:45 am)LRGVProVolt,
I currently have a 220v 50amp EVSE but unfortunitely it has a plug on it that only will work on the MINI-E. When the MINI-E was designed there wasn’t a consensus on an industry standard plug like there is now, the j1772. MINI-E drivers stop by all the time and I let them charge up for free.
Next spring when the MINI-E program ends, I will be driving an all electric BMW 1 series, the ActiveE. The ActiveE will use the j1772 so BMW will swap my EVSE with a new one that has the j1772 plug. I am also going to install another EVSE in my parking lot for public use (My current EVSE is in an alley behind my building) So hopefully when we do a meet up in the spring, I’ll have two- 220V charge points on the property. I can also run out a few 110v extension cords so we can be charging 4 or 5 cars at a time. I have more than enough power(600 amp service)
Nov 15th, 2010 (11:49 am)LOL, speak for yourself!
Be well,
Tagamet
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Nov 15th, 2010 (11:55 am)I wish GM would build their own battery plant…. I don’t like seeing a country that keeps US products out of their economy being able to build plants in the US and suck billions out of our economy. I don’t see GM being able to build a Volt plant in Korea Germany or Japan. That’s the root of a lot of problems. Everything is fine as long as they can sell in the US while keeping us out.
I think we better start taxing imported products and stop borrowing money from them.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (12:02 pm)An Out of topic question :
Was reading “2012 Buick LaCrosse eAssist achieves up to 37 mpg highway” ge ts 25 city and 37 Highway on 2.4 ltr engine.
The press release says :
The eAssist “smart electrification” system produces 25-percent increase in fuel economy
eAssist technology is standard on all 2012 models with the 2.4L four-cylinder engine
My question is why City is at 25mpg instead of say 35 because city it should capture the breaking energy and give pushes when needed ( i believe BAS+ is renamed as eAssist )
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Nov 15th, 2010 (12:13 pm)Does anybody have any opinion regarding investing in LG Chem directly, considering their obvious growth potential as a supplier to the auto companies?
Sincerely, George, Canada…go Volt!!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (12:26 pm)__________________________________________________________________
Dave G’s Volt Meet Up video in Lyle’s above article is reminiscent of the Personal Computer Meet Ups during the early days of personal computers.
I remember attending an event in 1976 where a group of early personal computer adopters showed off the first consumer available Apple Computer. I also remember during that same period reading predictions by respected analysts & cleaver pundits that the personal computer would never grow beyond a small market niche product.
___________________________________________________________________
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Nov 15th, 2010 (12:47 pm)______________________________________________________________________
Here is a video link to a Volt showroom sales guy making a sporting attempt to get his Volt pitch down. My favorite part is when he pops the front hood and says “it’s just amazing to look underneath the hood of a fully electric vehicle and see no gas engine, just all electric power”:
LOL…Perhaps GM should give this Volt sales guy a few additional pointers such as where that Volt gas engine is located.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgGhxaAqfVU
_________________________________________________________________________
Nov 15th, 2010 (12:50 pm)With Voltec in every garage, they will have to build more.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (12:56 pm)I second the motion!
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Nov 15th, 2010 (1:07 pm)#16
Amen! +1
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Nov 15th, 2010 (1:11 pm)Dear Santa, If it’s not too much trouble, would you convince GM to build a retractable front spoiler so I can leave home without scraping, I’ve been extra good this year. Thx.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (1:18 pm)Cool! I was aware of your charging port there; I’ve seen the picture of your MIMI-E connected to it. I applaud your setting the example for other businesses and showing that second opportunities to charge the EV while away from home will contribute to using less gasoline.
IMHO, one of the most important moves this nation can make for a brighter future is ending our past addiction to foreign oil. We can not extract enough from existing or new oil fields to supply the demand of our current ICE vehicles no matter how much we put into exploration and development of new found fields.
Fortunately, we have our electric grid to power our now small but expanding EV numbers. In the future, the rebuilding of our electric grid which is currently outdated and subject to failure, should be on top of the list of items that Congress and the Administration addresses. I worries me that with the deficit being so high that forces may fail to solve this important issue.
This country functions on two major sources of power among others; petroleum and electricity. We have all seen movies about terrorists attacking the electric grid and those movies about the ongoing wars. Getting off of petroleum as our primary source of fuel has now begun with the return of the EV. But we need to fix our electric grid; putting in place security devices and measures to keep this now essential source of power secure. With the eventual full withdrawal from Iraq and then Afghanistan. the cost of defense will make the funds available to modernize our grid.
Everyone can make a contribution to the nations move towards a more secure way of life in America. You set a good example for everyone in a similar position to follow. I thank you for that!
I can only wait for someone to start a Volt Meet-up here in my area. The Austin, Texas area will no doubt have Meet-ups sponsored by the existing EV organization. The drive up there wouldn’t be bad; Austin is a nice place to visit. We have all been excited for years with the announcement of the Volt and its progress to Day One. Now, more than ever, the excitement will continue in a more exciting way; no long a dream but something we all can put our hands on and marvel over the technological wonder that this vehicle will be recognized as a paradigm change for mankind.
Perhaps some time in the future, I will be fortunate enough to attend one of your Volt Meet-ups.:) I would enjoy meeting with you, Lyle, and everyone else to share our interest in this history making vehicle.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
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Nov 15th, 2010 (1:55 pm)See GM Cruze EV.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-20016988-48.html
100 miles seems to be the barrier range as we speak. The EV Cruze will certainly be marketed soon. I expect the U.S. may be on the latter end of GM’s EV Cruze plan – and it will cut into Volt sales substantially. Still, after driving a LEAF yesterday – I see the Volt as a strong seller, it’s completely unique vs. straight BEVs – many at the LEAF drive event yesterday had never even heard of the Volt, or at least understood what it was, and that it had the capability to go 40 miles EV and another 300 on gas! There is still much education to do ( massive understatement! ). Each large cluster of folks would stand by an open LEAF as the Nissan demonstrator would point out it’s features and answer questions. I was taking pictures and sitting in all it’s seats, fiddling with everything and felt like a Volt salesman – as I talked-up and explained Volt to so many people!
There were lines of people and tons of ‘em going through the LEAF demonstration near Seattle. It made the Volt event look terribly wimpy. Nissan really stunned as to it’s display – it made GM’s ” Volt backyard BBQ in a Best Buy parking lot” approach seem very anemic indeed. Yet people knowing they unwillingly own part of GM quite possibly could see an event the size of Nissan’s by GM as innappropriate (?).
What was really encouraging was the turnout – while Volt Unplugged drew primarily us geeky, in-the-know type early adopters ( 97% male) , the LEAF experience was totally different – kids in booster seats, Moms n’ Dads and just the curious. To me, it showed just how large the EV-Hybrid-EV market was. The LEAF event also impressed, as compared to the GM event where nobody was there representing power utilities or electrical contractors who’ll be involved in transportation’s electrification were there – at the LEAF event all were represented. It also had an “eco” feel to it as Nissan is pushing the whole conservation, global warming and cars made from recycled water bottle angle to the hilt ( very smart ).
So far, the whole feel is that GM is rolling out the Volt as a kind of project – wherein Ghosn’s Nissan is forging ahead with plans to convert the unconverted mainstream to electrify. I lost count of all the Priuses in the parking lot – and as I’ve stated here before, you can’t toss a rock in Seattle without hitting a Prius. I had lots of discussions with Prius owners like myself, all admitting that as you sit there in traffic, your Prius infernal engine switching on and off – you’re gonna get this large EV ENVY – or for some, GREEN ENVY when you pull up next to the LEAF.
After all the pageantry and display ( I think the educational aspect was very well done ) – the anticlimax was the LEAF drive. I packed my two small kids in the back of a shiny black LEAF with booster seats and found it’s back seat narrower than expected, and narrower than my already narrow Prius’ back seat. Also the hatch area is much smaller than Volt’s. There was one gent there who fit his full-sized cello into the trunk area, but it filled it completely – and the 18″ or so, step up from trunk to flat area ( folded down back seats ) seemed impractical and not very usable – So in all, small, but tall trunk. The included black zipper bag for the 110 plug and cord seemed nice, as already I’ve read CAB members commenting that getting Volt’s cord out of the back is unweildly and a hassle-and that most Volt owners will just toss it into the back.
I will concur with others that the LEAF’s driving experience is not like Volt’s at all. The Volt feeling substantial and planted ( Think Accord with zero engine noise most of the time ) – the LEAF giving you a nice, eerily quiet drive, yet with a real small car – budget compact feel .
I like them both. My ultimate garage would be the LEAF ( wife’s car ) and a Volt for me. If I had only one to buy? There’s the pinch. I’m not a nuerosurgeon, engineer or Hollywood star, so budget-wise the LEAF makes a strong case for my household to begin to get off of the oil nipple, and my wife never drives over 50 miles in a day. It’s a tad bit more of a conundrum once you’ve experienced Volt’s power, smoothness and overall cool factor. Now that I’ve driven both, I will have to say the financial sacrifice for Volt is valid and worthwile. For now, I’ll wait to see if GM will mass-produce Volt and sell it where I can buy one. I would encourage anyone standing on the EV fence to drive both cars. The Volt makes a pretty strong argument for itself indeed.
PUMP OUT THE VOLTS! ( in all 50 states ),
James
+2
Nov 15th, 2010 (2:24 pm)Crank up those battery factories LG Chem!
I hope LG Chem is selling their batteries and licensing their lithium ion battery technology for all sorts of applications … from electric cars to electric motorcycles, scooters, golf carts, weed whackers, leaf blowers, power drills, etc. I want LG Chem to get those “efficiencies of scale” as soon as possible so that the price of the Volt will come down fast.
I just googled up a little info about LG Chem’s battery factories here:
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2928362
Gotta love reading this:
“As a chemical company, we have the strength of producing our own material and lower costs in production, meaning that we have safety, performance, better price and competitive power, having everything that an EV battery should have,” said Kim.
The company said that it is currently in the process of developing technology that will allow a vehicle’s RANGE TO TRIPLE AND BATTERY PRICE TO FALL TO ONE THIRD OF WHAT IT IS NOW.
I just hope that AMERICAN battery companies and university researchers are working their tails off too so that there is a super competitive market for automotive batteries in the next few years. Competition tends to bring BETTER products to the marketplace FASTER. If it wasn’t for AMD and other semiconductor companies providing competition for Intel, we’d probably still have slow computers that crash a lot and cost too much.
Nov 15th, 2010 (2:36 pm)CDAVIS,
He does have a pretty good delivery, but he does need to get facts straight.
+1
Nov 15th, 2010 (2:43 pm)ATTN GM MKTG: Please re-read all of post #60 carefully. It’s time to get your Volt marketing act together!!!!
Nov 15th, 2010 (3:42 pm)I don’t want to be a party-pooper, but have you analyzed your electric bill for these 220v chargers? I am a business owner in FL and analyzed my bill with respect to the solar PV I installed and had to keep going with (expensive) changes. I worked hard to turn my $500 bill into $8. I got there because I did many extra things to reduce my demand down below the 21kw threshold. If I were to install one of these chargers, it would wipe out my status as a non-demand customer. I’d love to turn on the green light and let the world know to stop by and charge up an EV, but the demand charges would kill me. These charges mean I can (and HAVE) provide(d) more kwh to the utility than they give me and still end up with a bill over $100.
Kwh charges are negligible. For your event, I can’t imagine more that a couple bucks out of pocket to top off folks ‘tanks’ if in FL. But at $10 a KW (if you fell into demand charge rates), would cost HUNDREDS- to put out the green light for multiple level 2 chargers running simultaneously. One proviso, since demand is your worst (15-30 min) reading for the month, it is conceivable that you could turn off other business electrical loads (while running these chargers) and have zero impact on demand.
Now, if in NY, no problem. As long as you stick to <2000 kwh in a month (with my PV, no sweat), you are not a demand customer. So what is your situation in NJ? Can these be separately billed and if so, how will you deal with it?
Nov 15th, 2010 (3:58 pm)Re: the Cruze EV…. I wonder how the battery will be packaged? If any compromises in passenger room and/or trunk space will be made…. and how well it feels on the road – handling ease, etc.
And price? If post-tax credit total doesn’t end up below $20K, its market will be sparse in the USA. The $17k cost of a standard ICE Cruze would make a $20k+ post-credit price tag for an EV Cruze very hard to justify.
+1
Nov 15th, 2010 (5:31 pm)its nice around here with less trolls!
Nov 15th, 2010 (6:11 pm)Poor bloke….. Guess he was checking his crackberry when the GM Volt trainer was discussing the Volt drivetrain. At least he remembered the Volt tag line….
-2
Nov 15th, 2010 (6:39 pm)That’s called moving the goal posts.
In reality, the “40 miles EV” goal was achieved but neither the “50 MPG” nor the “nicely under $30,000” have been yet.
Nov 15th, 2010 (6:51 pm)Better yet, maybe he can include the totals in the banner above it.
Total Electric Miles: xx Total Miles: yy Total Gas Consumed: z
Nov 15th, 2010 (8:02 pm)lyle, is there a hand brake in the volt?
(just in case you guys call it sumfin different, by handbrake i mean the lever usually behing gears that locks the rear wheels)
-stuey
Nov 15th, 2010 (8:06 pm)Yep Stuey, the Volt has a “parking brake” as we call it. But it’s not actuated by a lever or handle. There’s a switch to the right of the shift lever, on the opposite side from the “Start” switch (with the letter “P” on it) that electrically actuates (or disables) the parking brake. What I don’t know is whether it actuates a parking “pall” in the transaxle or a friction brake, or both.
+1
Nov 16th, 2010 (1:17 am)There is nothing wrong with the technology of the 2 mode. You just have to remember that the technology was developed for big trucks and buses by Allison. Shrinking that technology down to fit cars and trucks was the challenge faced by the engineers. Their first generation attempt, the 2 mode hybridizing transmission, was suitable only for the largest heavy duty pickups, and largest SUVs.
They succeeded in this first attempt at down-sizing, despite only producing mileage figures in the low 20s, but it was significantly better than the 13-15 mpg obtained by conventional HD pickups and very large SUVs. It just didn’t seem that great, but proportionately they were very large improvements.
The development program was alwasy aimed at further down sizing and then turned to producing a second generation further down-sized and appropriate for cars and small CUVs. This time there would be in both FWD and RWD versions, and much lighter, and more inexpensive to produce. These were planned to be to be available in 2011 and 2012. When they appear, I expect that the 2 modes will be introduced.
Right now the most costly part of an EREV is the battery, as a Series EREV requires a larger battery, to be effective. The parallel-series, 2 mode PHEV, only needs a battery of half or less the the size, and that might make them more attractive until batteries become more inexpensive and limited.
TANSTAAFL. The parallel-series PHEVs won’t achieve as high fuel economies as the EREV Volts, obtaining only mileage in the high 90s and low 100s, instead of several hundred miles per gallon, possible in a EREV series design.
Nov 16th, 2010 (1:21 am)First off, the importance of exact matching becomes less important if each cell is monitored for voltage. That way no cell can become too charged or discharged to prevent rapid wear on one cell.
The Volt definitely has at least this level of battery protection.
Additionally, it is possible to balance cells using external circuitry. At a minimum this can be a current shunt during charging to balance out the cells. More advanced techniques involve balancing converters that can transfer a limited amount power so that every cell stays at the same state of charge.
I doubt it. With two parallel strings the Volt can simply cut out one of the two strings. With the range extender the car won’t even leave anyone stranded.
Even if there was only one string, this is only a car. The costs of having a bypass at every cell wouldn’t be worth it.
Nov 16th, 2010 (9:53 am)Nice video, it was like I was at the car show. Can’t wait to get them in Ohio.
Dec 2nd, 2010 (11:16 pm)I understands the concern2andI am very p happy to hear that you got your Supra fixed; I remember reading about some of your questions2cx5 !.