Nov 06
BMW Announces Half Billion Dollar Investment to Build Electric Cars, Will Produce Electric Supercar
This week BMW took a giant step fully into electrification of the automobile. The company has gradually been working towards a production electric vehicle program beginning with the MINI E test fleet it leased to 450 Americans starting in 2009.
Next it plans a small scale test program of an Active E electric 1-series.
BMW has just announced, however, that it would be investing €400 million, or $568 million, to bring the third stage vehicle in this program, the Megacity into production.
The money would be for development and to retool and prepare their plant in Leipzig, Germany for electric car production.
The company also announced it would bring to production the rather complex and dramatic Vision Efficient Dynamics electric sports car that is a mixture of pure EV, PHEV, and extended range electric drivetrains. The car has a 3 cylinder turbo 163 hp deisel engine and two electric motors. The first motor is situated between the engine and the transmission and produces up to 51 hp. The second motor is positioned at the rear and can produce up to 139 hp. Combined, the the powerplants can produce 328 hp, enough to propel the car from 0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds while at the same time managing over 60 MPG. The car has a lithium ion battery pack and can also travel up to 31 miles on electricity alone.
This car will be a low volume dramatic and expensive statement that will be available in 2013.
The Megacity electric car will be the bread and butter vehicle. A design freeze has reportedly been achieved and advanced prototypes will soon begin road testing. BMW will likely produce tens of thousands of these vehicles starting in 2013.
The Megacity will be marketed as a sub-brand and will likely be a 5-seater similar in size to the MINI. It will be ultralight weight and made out of carbon fiber supplied by a company in Washington state.
Like GM and Nissan before it, BMW is trying to keep the development open to hook early adopters.
“We have never been this open about an ongoing development process. We sense a hunger for information,” said BMW chief of design Adrian van Hooydonk. “People will see that it’s a BMW, but they will also see that it’s a BMW like no other.”
“By producing the Megacity Vehicle in Germany the BMW Group is demonstrating a clear commitment to Germany as a high-tech location. With this vehicle we are revolutionising automotive design and production, and offering our customers the first purpose-built electric vehicle for urban areas. This will be the world’s first volume-produced car with a passenger compartment made from lightweight CFRP, as less weight enables a longer range,” said BMW Chairman Norbert Reithofer. “We made a conscious decision to produce the car in Germany, at our plant in Leipzig – our newest and most cutting-edge facility with the most flexible structures,” he added
Source (New York Times) and (BMW)
+23
Nov 6th, 2010 (6:37 am)A huge commitment like this by BMW should remove any doubt in the minds of anyone —anywhere— that EVs, PHEVs, EREVs, etc don’t have truly high performance potential!
+4
Nov 6th, 2010 (6:41 am)Great video, hot car. More vehicles like this will change minds and get customers excited to order.
(I just hope it’s easier to enter and exit than the Tesla Roadster.)
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (6:44 am)So Lyle … how much will a CHEVY VOLT cost in Germany?
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (6:48 am)Perhaps some of the first to be erased, at least partially, reside in Detroit so that the Converj can be approved for production. Put the tech everywhere it fits now so that development gets pushed faster and EVs will be available to everyone sooner. Take the top of the pyramid and then work down with reducing costs.
+5
Nov 6th, 2010 (6:58 am)It amazes me how many auto manufacturers are committing big investments to bring various types of electric cars to production. This is usually a very conservative industry about expecting consumers to buy vehicles that are significantly different from what is currently offerred.
Think back to the ’90s when the automakers fought as hard as they could to avoid the CARB’s ZEV mandate. What a difference 15 years or so has made.
As an EV (and particularly a Volt) enthusiast I am thrilled to see this happen, but as someone with a degree in Economics I am flabbergasted at how brave the auto companies are being in committing so many resources to a market segment with total sales to date of less than one thousandth of all vehicles sold this year.
The next few years certainly promise to be interesting times in the car biz.
+11
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:00 am)“test fleet it leased to 450 Americans” sure… make out like the Germans have done something for the “Americans”…. as long as they KEEP ALL AMERICAN PRODUCTS OUT OF GERMANY… while sucking billions OUT of the Big dumb America. While they keep us out with huge tariffs we will be giving them $7500 per car here in the US. How long do you think there will be Amercian manufacturers?
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:16 am)Nice to get an update on BMW and see the commitment to BEVs.
As much as I like the Tesla Roadster, one small detail I don’t like is the huge truck-like extensions for the rear-view mirrors. I assume they are a legal requirement to see straight back behind the car. I adjust my side mirrors to angle out and cover my blind spots and use the interior mirror for straight back viewing. With my preference, the outside rear view mirrors do not have to extend out from the body. I see BMW got around this problem by mounting the rear view mirrors high and then were able to get them in close to the body. Looks much better and reduces wind resistance!
I am sure glad that major companies like BMW, GM, Nissan are ignoring predictions like J.D.Powers that the EV market will be minuscule for many years to come. Anybody know what is happening with Tata’s Indica EV being built in England? Was supposed to be on the market before now.
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:24 am)+1
CAB Driver, I would like to discus economics with you but since it is OT, would you be willing to do so by email? royharvie@gmail.com Thanks.
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:29 am)Interesting, Roy! I think I read somewhere that a car’s Cd can be improved by extending the mirror mounts, which apparently reduces the turbulence between the mirror & the car body/window. I’ve noted that GM did exactly that with the Volt’s mirrors, while making them larger instead of small & slender as on the concept car. I’d find it hard to believe Tesla & GM would both use long extensions if that did NOT improve Cd, if only because of the emphasis on Cd in general for an EV.
In any case, I MUCH prefer the long mirror extensions to Nissan’s hideous “bulging eye” headlight housings, which they claim was done to reduce turbulence around the mirrors. Maybe BMW will wind up actually using tiny reverse-looking camera pods instead of mirrors, who knows?
+13
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:37 am)Off topic:
SAE Vehicle Electrictification 60 page special issue dedicated to the Chevy Volt
http://www.sae.org/servlets/newsletter?LINK=10EVSD1104a002&PID=84936371
GSP
-3
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:42 am)Bring on more BEVs. That makes even more batteries available for pontoon boats and the like after they become unsellable.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:53 am)A phenomenal catch, GSP! Current (Nov 4), 60+ pgs, Society of Automotive Engineers & its magazine format should make it very readable!
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:53 am)GSP,
Thank you for the link. Much appreciated.
+4
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:00 am)At the risk of incurring Lyle’s wrath for going OT, I had another drive on the Unplugged Tour in NYC Friday w/ GM’s Rob Peterson(who has v kind words to say about our good Dr.).
Pls someone correct me if this has all come out before–but I haven’t seen the following.
Production run of showroom cars between now and end of the year: about 200.
As to the 10,000 to be built in calender year 2011, the ramp up will continue in the early months, so that January, February, ??? won’t be seeing the theoretical average of 800-plus that some might expect(or hope for).
Finally, he strongly hinted w/o being specific that the first showroom cars will be produced before the now ‘official’ date of Nov. 30th. At first it seemed clear Nov. 30 was only a “communications” date–as in when they can get everyone together for all the hoopla, and that real ‘for sale’ cars will be in production well before that. When I pressed him, well let’s just say that he was very nice but declined to be any more specific.
My story doesn’t run til Monday night, but thought I would share this info.
(footnote: Rob says this has been reported before, so my apologies if you all know it, but I asked him the expected average time between oil changes for the generator, and he said “about 2 years.”)
+3
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:05 am)Looks like a lot of dancers are coming to the big dance! It’s great to see more and more of the big name players touting their future models, but it’s even better to see companies like BMW actually talking about their specific production plans. As always, I like the idea of more choices (though I couldn’t afford the keyfob for a BMW vehicle)(lol). At the auto auction, the dealers state that “BMW” stands for “Be my wife”!
Since Lyle was involved in the BMW pilot program for the Mini-E, he should be doubly proud of his role in the electrification of transportation!
Be well,
Tagamet
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:07 am)GSP,
My thanks too. I just printed it out and it’s 62 pages total. I had to chuckle at the subtitle – the maniacal engineering team. Page 22 – engineering with a maniacal focus. But we knew that.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:07 am)I”m not an aerodynamics expert but do have some limited understanding. It’s so much a reduction in turbulance as it is frontal pressure drag. If I’m remembering correctly, compressible fluid laminar flow around an object experience a pressure gradient. Extending the mirrors out moves them into a lower pressure region or all the way to ambient. This reduces the frontal drag becuase there is a lower pressure differential between the front of the mirror and the rear.
For the Leaf, turbulance is actually the freind. There is less drag for non-laminar flow once the spead is high enough that there would be separation of laminar flow at the rear of the mirror. Turbulance reduces skin fiction drag along the surface of the mirror and reduces separation drag at the rear. Although I’m not sure if the Leaf’s design induces turbulance ahead of the mirror or simply redirects the higher pressure flow away from the mirror or both.
I would certainly appreciate any correction or clarification an aerodynamicist could give.
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:12 am)GSP,
Fantastic Read
Thanks for the link!
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:19 am)It is great to see the big boys all getting involved in EV development but it is also great to see how big a lead GM has with the Volt, with Nissan and the Leaf coming in a distant second.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:34 am)AMEN!EVERYONE should +1 that post! That’s not only a fantastic article, it’s a GREAT website. I love the “flyup” menus at the bottom and all the navigation hotlinks! Oh, and the info was pretty good too (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
+5
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:46 am)Hummm…How interesting is this information’s timing, released on the eve of Volt job1.
Sorry to be so critical about good news like this but, if I were a GM competitor, I would release some high tech future plan too. I’ll do anything to try and get potential Volt buyers to postpone their decision to buy a Volt. How must it feel to a BMW executive to see a BMW owner switch companies and trade-in to buy a Chevrolet Volt? Losing market share is bad enough, but losing to a Chevrolet????
That brings to mind a great advertising idea. Have a commercial with different (manufacturer) cars being traded in for a Volt. Tag line it “Welcome back!”
NPNS!
+11
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:48 am)Heard here and there: “The Volt is soooooo expensive! Why, I could buy a BMW for that much money.” Just wait for them to hear what a BMW EREV costs. Bwahahahahahaha! Ahem. Excuse me. Back to serious discourse.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:51 am)I guess you or Statik needs to set up a BMW-Megacity.com now…
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:02 am)Note page 11, ‘designed to run on ethanol’. We keep hearing that the car is NOT E85 ready, yet these technical folks have stated just the opposite. I see later it is my 2012.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:06 am)Interesting article on Megacity:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/10q2/2013_bmw_megacity_vehicle-future_cars
Excerpt:
“To improve range, BMW is pondering the use of a range-extender engine with 30 to 45 hp”
Can’t imagine why.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:10 am)Impressive read. It’s kind of like a book of ‘the story of Volt’. This is a good place for people new to Volt to start (along with Lyle’s site of course!).
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:13 am)Got that right! Reading it on the iPad. This is the best looking/working e-mag site I’ve ever seen–makes others like New Yorker and NYT look like hacks.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:18 am)Or they could have done what GM did on the Converj and just put 2 small cameras.
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:36 am)I wonder how BMW’s use of carbon fiber will work out. I know its the strongest/lightest material, but its expensive (now), and not recycleable (as far as I know). Is this going to make the car less green? Does it take more petroleum to make a carbon fiber car vs. a steel car?
That was the green in me talking. The geek in me loves carbon fiber. I just dont know enough about manufacturing it.
(anyone else stuck working today
)
+5
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:40 am)Every day i see a long line of single occupied suvs and luxury cars driving by my home to a nearby school. NO small sedans. If you want to electrify these people you have to electrify their suvs,not the small compact sedans that very few people drive anyway.
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:49 am)Off topic:
SAE Vehicle Electrictification 60 page special issue dedicated to the Chevy Volt
http://www.sae.org/servlets/newsletter?LINK=10EVSD1104a002&PID=84936371
I read all around the first pages and couldn’t find a copyright page or publisher information. There is apparently only 1 issue, the one in the link. Does anyone know the credentials of the authors? Are there previous issues or future issues planned? I’d kinda like to be able to judge the credibility of the document. It’s a great looking format based on the link, but getting the answers to these questions is a little user unfriendly.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:52 am)Yes, on page 50 it says an E85 version of the Volt will be available mid-year 2012. I assume this means the 2013 model, since new model years are usually offered several months in advance.
I see E85 as a critical feature for energy independence, so I’m willing to wait another couple of years. But by then maybe someone besides GM will also have an E85 plug-in. And hopefully there will be something that better fits my needs, something like the MPV5.
I usually keep a car for around 10 years, so I’m in no hurry. I’ll wait until the time is right.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:00 am)Autoblog Green provided BMW press information on the Megacity vehicle and BMW’s EV strategy including the use of carbon fibre.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/07/02/in-depth-bmw-megacity-vehicle-and-project-i/
Please anyone here with connections to GM marketing, press GM to develop an Efficient Dynamics program like BMW. Having a long-range strategy and development approach which applies several efficiency technologies across all their product families is:
1) Cost effective 2) An excellent marketing/branding opportunity.
Hope to hear more from GM (post IPO) on a clearly articulated Voltec strategy and inclusion across the product range.
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:01 am)Good to see BMW taking this serious step. Weren’t we all talking about this a year ago? The oil snorting, somewhat out of tune, 18 mpg car will be dropping out of favor when the smooth electrics arrive. Manufacturers offering only gasoline will be viewed as crude low tech dinosaurs.
NPNS
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:01 am)You can be sure SAE publications are reputable. SAE International is a global association of more than 128,000 engineers and related technical experts in the aerospace, automotive and commercial-vehicle industries. SAE International’s core competencies are life-long learning and voluntary consensus standards development. It’s prestige and reputation are unquestionable. For more details go to http://www.sae.org/
+3
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:04 am)The SUV craze will fade. It’s just fashion.
20 years ago, most women wouldn’t be caught dead in anything that remotely resembled a truck. But then by the turn of the century, women were lining up to buy them.
Many people say they need an SUV for carrying more people or stuff. If that were true, they would buy a mini-van. Mini-vans carry more people and stuff than SUVs. But for some reason, most women today hate mini-vans.
So I really believe it’s a fashion thing. When the next big fashion thing comes along, people will give up their SUVs easily. Perhaps EREVs will be that next big thing. We can only hope.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:17 am)Continuing on w/ SAE observations- 150 mile course, 51 mpg overall. If you subtract their AER, you see that they got 36 mpg in CS mode.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:25 am)I’m currently in the MINI-E program and will be driving a BMW ActiveE next summer. BMW is really committed to electric vehicles (more than I think most people realize) an are planning on full scale production of a whole line of electric cars, not just these. As noted above, the Megacity(that may not be the actual name of the car) will be the first one and will be in showrooms in 2013 and BMW plans on this being a high volume seller so the price has to be “reasonable”. The extreme low weight is allowing them to use a battery about half the size of the MINI-E and achieve the same 100-120 mile range, although I don’t think the final size of the pack has been confirmed. This will definitely help to keep the cost down.
The Vision sports car above is supposed to be available in 2013-2014 and they project making 5,000 to 10,000 units and selling them for between $120,000 to $150,000, obviously not something the average Joe will put in their garage, but then again Tesla didn’t have any trouble selling out their cars at $110,000 per so I guess there are enough people out there with that kind of cash.
What I’m really happy to see is that BMW is beginning to reach out to current MINI-E drivers and they will be doing some really cool stuff in the coming months to build up to the ActiveE and then Megacity releases. Can’t say more than that, you know how those pesky NDA’s work… I do have an ActiveE blog now to go along with my MINI-E blog to post information that I’m allowed to as I get it. For anyone interested it’s here: http://activeemobililty.blogspot.com/
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:26 am)I’m not likely to buy even a Tesla or Corvette. A BMW electric super car doesn’t really excite me. Doesn’t help until the tech filters down to the cars the rest of us buy and drive.
+2
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:31 am)The Volt, or if I can’t land one, a Tesla S for me. Proud day coming when I’m not supporting with my American dollars an Oil Sheik who despises everything about my country.
As a retired US Air Force veteran, I’m glad to see the entire world moving away from feeding the hate in the Middle-East. Our addiction has cost America more than any other country our freedoms and solvency.
CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:33 am)We don’t need electric supercars, we simply need Pure Battery Electrics & Serial Plug-In Hybrids that are affordable. Enough with the rich mans playthings.
+4
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:38 am)Oh! You read my mind and beat me to it! But you left out: “who is really the market for a BMW?”
+6
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:45 am)I’ve heard that lame excuse Nissan makes before. It’s nothing more than a cover up for a lousy styling department.
They could easily have positioned the headlights less obtrusively and hidden the bulge within the sheetmetal where it wouldn’t have been as glaringly obvious. Ugly is ugly no matter how badly Nissan attempts to spin it.
+6
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:48 am)It looks like almost all if the automakers will have an EV or PHEV in the next 24 months, but only Toyota has had the foresight to build one with only 12-14 miles AER.
+2
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:48 am)Even after all this time, the Converj still looks great. I’m REALLY looking forward to GM announcements (if any, of course) about their electric vehicle plans, after the IPO. I’d guess they’re holding a lot back. ;^)
+4
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:49 am)And I love this from SAE article:
“The Prius came in at .30 Cd and that number was also verified in the tunnels of both Ford and Chrysler. Toyota officially claimed .25 Cd for Prius” [previously, it was stated that Volt Cd found to be .28]
Trolls BEGONE!!! If we didn’t trust your Prius rants before, we trust them even less now.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:55 am)Written by SAE senior editor Lindsay Brooke
SAE Magazines – Editorial Staff
Senior Editor
Lindsay Brooke (248) 273-4091 abrooke@sae.org
SAE is headquarted in Troy, MI (exit 69 – Big Beaver Rd… don’t laugh)
SAE Automotive Headquarters
755 W. Big Beaver, Suite 1600, Troy MI 48084
TelePhone: 248/273-2455
Fax: 248/273-2494
automotive_hq@sae.org
This link also tells a lot about Lindsay and his credentials
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/juror/Lindsay-Brooke.html
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:59 am)I don’t agree with these assumptions. Women I have talked to on this subject like driving SUV’s because they sit higher and therefore feel bigger which helps them feel safer and in more command of the road. Now those feelings may be illusory to a degree, but they definitely are not fashion statements.
+2
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:00 am)Why fight the current demand? Give’m a Voltec small SUV–the size of a Honda CR-V. Those are extremely popular here in the city.
So, the MPV5 and a larger cousin. Done. Make it happen, GM.
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:06 am)I agree. I got to see it in person last Jan and my jaw hit the floor. Even if they dont make an EREV Converj, they should just model an ICE Cadillac after it. With its aerodynmics, it should get higher MPG.
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:08 am)Creative way to solve the high battery cost problem–shift the cost to the frame. Wonder if GM is looking into this. If BMW can mass-produce carbon-fiber frames at ‘competitive’ costs, then they will have found a holy grail of auto manufacturing. Wonder if the Wash. state supplier is Boeing-787 related.
+3
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:16 am)Motor Trend has posted favorable reviews of the Volt. Wonder what Consumer Reports will have to say? Here’s an example of a Consumer Reports review of an American product:
We found the 2.4-liter engine noisy and unrefined, and four-speed automatic unresponsive. The ride is unsettled, and handling is ungainly but ultimately secure. The interior has cheap, hard plastics, poor panel fit and uncomfortable seats.”
Is this an unbiased report or a venting session? Ungainly? Hope Consumer Reports will adjust the attitude. And welcome the arrival of electric vehicles with fresh eyes.
=D-Volt
ungainly (def) – lacking grace in movement or posture; “a gawky lad with long ungainly legs”; “clumsy fingers”; “what an ungainly creature a giraffe is”; “heaved his unwieldy figure out of his chair”
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:23 am)I hear you, but not sure where it would fit in the Cadillac lineup. They already have, or at least had (you hardly see any of them around), the sports car based on the Corvette. Maybe they could use a small 4 seater. Or Buick could. Or sell all the body panels as after-mkt replacements for the Volt panels! lol Anyway, should be cool when designers can get more creative as batteries get better and better. I still think the ‘skateboard’ idea was awesome. Put all the batteries down low under the whole car–low center of gravity and literally ‘clears the deck’ for flexible design. Could be a platform for all your brands. Other elec gear already does this in a way–my laptop’s batteries are long and thin, for example. Would be nice to have an expert chime in here on this.
Oops, sorry bud, my posts have not been about politics or urban violence. Or chasing the one woman poster on this board. My bad.
+3
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:30 am)Converj
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:32 am)nasaman,
There is no doubt about the performance potential. The problem is the cost.
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:38 am)That from-the-back (sorry, didn’t want to say ‘rear’) 3/4 view is stunning. Some of GM’s best work in years. Combined with their new coupe, looks like Cadillac styling is hitting its groove.
I just set that picture as my desktop background, taking the place of new close-up images of comet Hartley 2. Gracias.
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:44 am)That was a good read. Thanks. I like reading about the behind the scenes stuff that the Volt development team worked on. I liked to watch documentaries about the behind the scenes stuff with the Apollo space program too. All the ups and downs and struggles are interesting. It makes you wish you could have worked on those projects.
+2
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:03 pm)The SAE Vehicle Electrification article is an incredible summary of the information that has been discussed on GM-VOLT and is a landmark reference work explaining the development of the Volt. I enjoyed reading this on page 15.
AEI tested fuel economy, mpg, 150-mile loop: 51
AEI tested range, EV mode, 150-mi loop: 44.5
I appreciate the Volt design and dedication of the team of engineers more than ever. Their countless hours to make the Volt possible will return major benefits in future design efforts.
+2
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:21 pm)OT, but timely for Veteran’s Day:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v95/Tagamet/?action=view¤t=YouTube_-_I_Fought_For_You_By_The_Sound_Tank.mp4
I hope that it “shows”. If not, go to Photobucket.com and it’s in my open Tagamet account.
Be well and thank a Vet,
Tagamet
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:32 pm)The like the new CTS coupe a lot, but I still think the Converj is better. Maybe they could take its design and somehow incorporate it into the CTS.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:33 pm)The only thing “Super” about BMW EV will be the cost. If they were working on something Super, they would have had something out about it already.
Go Volt (New GM)! Let us see the Super Volt out on the street!
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:35 pm)Isn’t that Thursday?
+2
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:40 pm)I read the SAE story on the Volt cover-to-cover, and I agree. And I worked on Apollo beginning the day it started and for quite a few years. Our group’s standard work week was 100hrs* —still wish you could have worked on it?
*We were all paid for only 40hrs/wk (i.e., salaried people; hourly were paid 1 1/2 time or double time, as required by law). Salaried or hourly, NO ONE EVER COMPLAINED!
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:48 pm)PS to my #63: I’d be surprised if many of GM’s salaried on the Volt program didn’t log a huge amount of unpaid overtime.
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:55 pm)So we need to wait until Thursday to honor our Vets?
Be well,
Tagamet
Nov 6th, 2010 (12:59 pm)OT: The Volt Unplugged Tour is in NYC today & tomorrow. For info: http://chevrolet.posterous.com/the-volt-unplugged-tour-moves-into-a-new-york
Nov 6th, 2010 (1:05 pm)It’s great to see BMW get into the mix of companies making better, faster, more efficient components. Here’s a link from Earth2Tech http://gigaom.com/cleantech/wrightspeed-raises-cash-for-speedy-electric-car-tech/ If I heard correctly, he says something about a 250 hp motor that weighs 40 lbs.
I’ve always thought the most stunning thing about the Volt is that this compromise-ridden, first-shot, obsolescent-at-birth version of the Voltec is more powerful in most respects than the 3.8L V6 engine that was GM’s premium engine for everything south of a Cadillac throughout the late 80′s and 90′s.
A lot of what gets chalked up to conspiracy and collusion (IMHO) comes from everyone going to the same business school and being pathetically loathe to engage in capital spending. Until you have to. We’re now there.
Any car company that wants stick around is gonna need an EREV.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (1:11 pm)I’m scheduled for 11 am to 12. I wish it meant that I got to drive for an HOUR (lol).
I’ll report back, but I’m guessing that I’ll still have the Volt Smile when I’m pulling into my driveway.
Be well,
Tagamet
Nov 6th, 2010 (1:31 pm)Thanks for the heads up. It’s a interesting line up… a variety of no-plug hybrids… a full EV… a plug-in hybrid using sub-packs, so capacity can easily be increased.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (1:32 pm)Thank you!
Nov 6th, 2010 (1:56 pm)I just put in another 50+ hour week for 40hrs pay. I guess its better then being unemployed (maybe not).
Nov 6th, 2010 (2:06 pm)I’m off to the Mercedes plant in Alabama all next week. I’ll see if I can dig up any new info about the electric Smart Car & E-Cell. Those are both BEV’s. I don’t know if Mercedes is working on an EREV.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (2:07 pm)Unfortunately NASAman there is an entire community of negative, angry, hateful people who dislike anything human. They are misanthropes of a tall order and their entire purpose in life is to denigrate, belittle human achievement. Just read the comments on Volt at certain boards around the internet to get a sense of who they are. These are the people who want to see every constructive step toward electrification fail. They are not oil people or rabid political conservatives. They are simply people who hate human nature and all it stands for.
Fortunately, they are not the majority… yet.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (2:23 pm)I wish the car manufacturers would work from the bottom up when bringing EV’s to the market instead of expensive cars like the Tesla, Fiskar, and like this BMW will most likely be. But all the cool stuff has started out with the top of the line cars or at least in the neighborhood of $41,000. Then the cool stuff would trickle down in a few years to the everyday cars.
If I wanted an EV so bad I could not wait 2-3 years, I would buy a conversion. Almost bought a clean EV 1966 Porsche 912 for $15,000. 65 AER, 90 MPH. Oh well I will wait…
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (2:44 pm)Dude, it is a glorified box with nearly the same Cd as the Volt. Give credit where credit is due. The Leaf will not win design awards for looks, but it does squeeze a lot of miles out of its battery.
+5
Nov 6th, 2010 (2:45 pm)Anyone wishing to read and discuss the SAE 60 page online Chevy Volt development magazine, I have started a dedicated thread for it here:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5543-2011-Chevrolet-Volt-Development-Story-Free-Online-Magazine
A truly excellent piece.
Nov 6th, 2010 (2:48 pm)Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve been talking about the Leaf to my wife and she saw a red one on Regis and Kelly last week (there is a contest to win it) and her first reaction was ‘wow, what a nice sporty car, I imagine myself driving one’.
I was very surprised, to say the least. I much prefer the looks of the Volt myself so…
Nov 6th, 2010 (2:48 pm)T-minus 24 days and counting. Does anyone know where the big festivities will be held at? Who are the big execs showing up that delayed it till 30th?
Nov 6th, 2010 (2:50 pm)Don’t rule them out just yet. They might be working secretly – japanese style – on something as we chat.
Nov 6th, 2010 (3:34 pm)Moi.
Be well,
Tagamet
/lol
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (5:01 pm)Don’t be quite so amazed. The auto companies obviously know much more than the general population about peak oil and how close we are to massive increases in Price per gallon for the only fuel currently available. Petroleum. Don’t be surprised about any of the auto companies who want to stay in business and will have to have something in the hopper to replace gasoline and diesel fuel. Quickly.
Take Care,
TED
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (5:20 pm)I hadn’t quite thought about it this way, Ted. But I feel a little foolish because you’re obviously right! An it makes it easier to see why BMW, GM’s Opel, Mercedes etc in Germany —with gas prices already double what ours are in the US— are making such big investments in electrifying their major brands! BTW, in case anyone missed it, check out the link below (I sent it to GM’s Voltec engineering staff a few days ago) about a young German engineer who tested a modified Audi A2 converted to an EV with a new type battery that allowed it to go 370+ miles non-stop in about 7 hrs with the heater on; and, very importantly, that he claims can be fully recharged in as little as 6 minutes!?!
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/27/dbm-energys-electric-audi-a2-completes-record-setting-372-mile/
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (5:39 pm)One great read on the Volt! what impressed me was the high level collaboration with so many industries and companies.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (5:46 pm)The December Motor Trend is reporting 127MPG for the Volt without trying very hard.
Same issue gave the Prius plug-in 70MPG.
Clear winner: VOLT
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (5:54 pm)Very perceptive —I noted that too. I also noted that the guy who test drove the Prius plug-in (over a period of about a week I think) lived fairly close (<10 mi) to his Motor Trend office, so he plugged in as often as possible, home & office. That way, the PPI was able to stay in EV mode most of the time it was driven.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (5:56 pm)I shows and shows very well! I stand at attention and salute every vet.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
-4
Nov 6th, 2010 (5:57 pm)SALES are the measure progress.
Don’t lose track of what’s trying to be accomplished.
The point is to replace traditional production.
Nov 6th, 2010 (5:58 pm)For god sakes, how long do you plan on riding this horse?
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (6:51 pm)Just wondering what the link for that report is? I did a google search and came up with this link dated November 4th:
“2011 Motor Trend Car of the Year Contender: Chevrolet Volt” Great news!
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/6700939/auto-news/2011-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-contender-chevrolet-volt/index.html#ixzz14Y69jS59
And this one mentioning the 127MPH on October 14th:
Chevy Volt: The Real Efficiency Number.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1010_chevy_volt_the_real_efficiency_number/index.html
Didn’t see any reference to Prius
But the article did lower that 127 figure because of losses in converting electricity to chemical energy according to the article. By their calculations they get down to 105 mpg. Still a lot better than the Prius.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Nov 6th, 2010 (6:55 pm)http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1009_2010_toyota_prius_plug_in_hybrid_electric_vehicle_prototype_test/index.html
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:25 pm)Amen!
Off to NYC (actually NJ) tomorrow for another test spin. Film at 11 (g). I lucked into the time change day, so 5 AM won’t come quite so early.
Be well,
Tagamet
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:36 pm)Thanks, nasamann!
After reading the report about the PPI, I see how much better the Volt is than this initial Plug-In Prius. The Volt may cost more to purchase but it has far more technolgy built in that in addition to its excellent performance like riding well, running quiet, and looking nice, (what did I leave out – insert here), makes the Volt well worth the cost. JMO.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Nov 6th, 2010 (7:38 pm)I think your addicted to test drives, Tag.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:16 pm)Nice to see BMW actually commit that kind of money because that’s what it takes to bring a modern vehicle to mass production. Actually, GM spent over 1 Billion. Good start, at least, and only three years behind the Volt.
I love the that they are going to lightweight it by using carbon fiber; the next big step in the electrification of transportation.
I am still waiting for Audi to come out with firm production plans for an all-aluminum R8 electric.
That would be very nice.
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:37 pm)My last post must have been stuck in moderation. Don’t forget when down-grading Toyota for their anemic response to the plug in Prius that they have alread annouced that they are comming back out with the RAV4-EV and that should give 100-125 per charge with Li-Ion batteries. The majority of the last ones Toyota came out with in 2003 are still on the road. Not too shabby. If GM cannot see its way clear to come out with the BEV Volt, I might have to go with the RAV4-EV. And you all know me….I ma not a troll.
Take Care, TED
+2
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:38 pm)I will of course get my Volt in March 2011 first. I am no idiot.
Take Care,
TED
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (8:58 pm)I’ll be a bit disappointed if I can’t wrangle at least two rides tomorrow. I have my wig, fake nose, and mustache glasses all packed. I’m still working on a convincing accent – probably German in honor of the BMW thread…. (lol). I really need to get out more…
Be well,
Tagamet
/I hope the road team isn’t reading this….
// I’ll be there before the sun rises where you are!
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:31 pm)LOL! You are addicted. Have a lot of fun. I am envious of you. Two to go and more on the way.
Happy trails to you’til we meet again.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (9:40 pm)From your lips, to God’s ear!
Be well,
Tagamet
/I *know* I won’t sleep much tonight. It’s like Voltmas Eve.
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:06 pm)Maybe they will have a red one?
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:07 pm)Well it looks like 3 plus years of hard work on the Volt and Leaf was in vain.
The new LMP battery tech with 372 mile range is up for the mass production to all automakers. Its a win for the consumer but a loss for the auto makers like GM and Nissan who already spent billions of dollars.
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:34 pm)Jeremy, don’t forget that much of what GM, at least, has invested so far applies to ALL types of batteries… e.g., cell-level thermal control, continuous cell state-of-health monitoring, cell recondi-
tioning, by-passing of shorted or open cells, etc. This level of monitoring & controls is absolutely necessary for long-life batteries of ALL types operating in the harsh automotive environment. So if
the “LMP battery tech” you’re referring to embodies a new chemistry and/or cell design, so much the better. GM’s battery lab maintains intensive battery research activities to investigate such new developments as they may become available as well as to develop their own new batteries.
And as I posted earlier today, I’ve sent information on the battery you mention to a battery engineer working in the battery lab for Micky Bly at GM (and communicated directly with this engineer about it both in person and by email). For those who didn’t see it, here’s a link to one article about it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/27/dbm-energys-electric-audi-a2-completes-record-setting-372-mile/
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:37 pm)Jeremy,
I think we should wait to see third party results, production plans including factory completion times and of course the price.
Until then, enjoy DBM Energy’s German only website:
http://www.dbm-energy.com/index.php?ms=Willkommen1&PHPSESSID=cd8de0gu8v6ak4k6e9q5lt9tu6&ft=1289100425
Maybe the next generation Volt might consider them, if all things work out.
Remember, it’s all about the battery.
Nov 6th, 2010 (10:57 pm)Thanks for this, Texas. I’ve forwarded it to GM in Michigan with the suggestion they send a copy on to Frank Weber at Opel in Germany on the outside chance he hasn’t seen it.
+1
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:19 pm)German language news story (with Google Translation) about the DBM-Lekker Energie 600 KM (350+ mile) night test drive from Munich to Berlin. The DBM-Lekker battery’s apparently been quietly field tested since 2008, has about a 300 WH/kg energy capacity. Conventional recharge time is said to be about 4 hours with (in theory) faster charging possible. DBM-Lekker engineers reportedly met with representatives of Opel, BMW, Daimler and VW after the test drive to Berlin:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.autobild.de/artikel/schriebers-stromkasten-teil-101-1276769.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAllianz%2BSE%2BDBM%2BLekker%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26prmd%3Div&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhj8SXSy_0nc3a7JuLvzYHhytoL4pA
Nov 6th, 2010 (11:34 pm)I had a Volt test drive today in Paramus NJ. I got to run around the track a few times. I loved the way the Volt behaved, and it was really exciting to finally get to see it in the flesh. My rep also mentioned a 2 year oil change cycle for the generator.
I was a little disappointed with GM’s marketing team and/or representatives… They were very nice and personable, but it seems like they didn’t know as much as I would hope they did. They also didn’t seem to recognize the true benefits of the Volt and the interested marketing segment. One staff member said something like, “this won’t get the gas mileage a Prius gets” without much further explanation. To me that completely misses the point of what the Volt is, and how it will use no gas on 40 miles or less per day (much better than the Prius). Their statement is only true if a person is always traveling 200+ miles every day.
I hope to post some pictures and chat more about it at some point. Wish I could’ve taken some video like nasaman did. I did get some good acceleration on the Volt in sport mode, but I wasn’t able to get the same dirty look that nasaman got when he slammed on the brakes.
join thE REVolution
+1
Nov 7th, 2010 (12:27 am)Some pictures from the test drive… This was one of the pre-production vehicles with the black leather/green accents. I also caught a still of the center console during its boot-up animation.
join thE REVolution
Nov 7th, 2010 (12:36 am)The link says 115 kwh capacity. 115/375 = 307 wh per mile. That’s not too great, but they were carrying a big battery.
Nov 7th, 2010 (2:31 am)Hey I got that car on one of my tees here it is if your wondering? http://www.cafepress.com/+no_gas_pro_electric_car_tshirt,269725283
Nov 7th, 2010 (8:13 am)guys the bmw efficient vision dynamics is one hell of an expensive car. it costs nearly $170k-220k.
it will be better if we buy the volt or opel ampera. even fisker’s karma is way less expensive than the bmw’s erev. u could buy two tesla roadster or a li-ion inizio for that amount
+1
Nov 7th, 2010 (9:24 am)A German language video of the October 26, 2010 DBM-Lekker 600 km (350+ mile) drive and press conference in Berlin with comments by the engineer who developed the technology. More links to videos and news reports about the DBM-Lekker battery are in the GM-Volt Forum.
http://www.welt.de/videos/wirtschaft/article10551632/Elektro-Auto-faehrt-600-Kilometer-ohne-aufzuladen.html
+1
Nov 7th, 2010 (1:54 pm)ChuckR,
Here’s some technical information about the DBM Energie (LMP) Lithium-Metal-Polymer battery:
http://www.lekker-mobil.com/images/stories/pdf/technische%20Daten%20Audi%20A2.pdf
DBM-Lekker Energy may have an advanced (LMP) battery that does not require special heating and cooling, has more energy density in less space. A battery with 115 Kwh is 7 times greater than the Volt’s 16 Kwh pack. But for sure, third party verification of the DBM engineering would be welcome. It would be great to see more test drives, and know more about the safety of the design. The Audi A2 is (was) Audi’s smallest car. It’s said to be made partly of aluminum. The weight of the test drive A2 BEV with battery was about 2,900 pounds. The A2′s (LMP) battery is not in the trunk or backseat like the Mini-E, but is mounted in a tranche under the car (ala the Leaf). The A2′s interior spaces, the trunk and seating features remain normal. Opel, BMW, Daimler and Audi representatives reportedly met with DBM-Lekker’s Engineering team after the 600 km test drive to Berlin. So stay tuned!
+1
Nov 7th, 2010 (7:42 pm)Provided you have a large cable direct to the power plant. And what means “fully charged”? Fast charging isn’t so much about the battery as it is about the power supply and controlling it. Imagine just a few seconds overcharge at 1000 amps.
Nov 8th, 2010 (8:02 am)Dave K.,
Perhaps the new Cadillac ATS is what became of the Converg. No word yet on the powertrain of the ATS as far as I know.
http://wot.motortrend.com/6604864/future/next-gen-camaro-cts-to-join-small-cadillac-ats-on-new-rear-drive-platform/photo_01.html
Nov 8th, 2010 (8:49 am)Yeah, unfortunately people said this about the Volt too the first time that commercial aired five years ago. And now its indistinguishable from the Inisight or Prius.
Nov 9th, 2010 (4:53 pm)Nelson,
BMW wont lose and business to the volt. Now the volt isnt cheap at 40k but that BMW will be 100k+. i
de even guess it will be over 200k if it keeps the carbon fiber body.