I spent the better part of a warm October day driving a Chevrolet Volt throughout northeast Michigan. This was the culmination of years of discussion, research, writing and dreaming, finally coming true. I alternated taking the wheel with another journalist and we were accompanied by a GM spokesperson who rode in the back seat.
We took the car through city streets, rural roads, and highways. We ran into stop signs, traffic lights, construction zones and highway entrances and exits. It was an extensive driving experience the likes of which I had never had before with the car which was a fully-refined salable build.
Our day began with a fully charged battery indicating 40 miles of available range. That number is determined based on the behavior of the previous drive, and nowhere was displayed the percent battery range remaining, just the estimated range which gradually moves towards zero as you go.
The first leg of our journey included some spirited freeway romps over 85 mph at times. We were able to travel 36.9 miles before the range extender went on. We continued for another 16.4 miles and arriving after 53.3 miles of driving our total fuel efficiency to that point was 98 mpg.
At our first destination, the DHAM assembly plant, we plugged our car into a cool solar panel charging station (shown above) and about two hours later returned to the car which by then had accrued 24 miles of EV range. After driving off again the range extender went back on that time after exactly 24 miles. We then covered another 30.9 miles to our second destination for a total of 54.9 miles. The fuel economy of that leg measured 66.6 mpg.
Our next to final leg back to the hotel was done only in extended-range mode, at 50 to 60 mph, over flat roads with mild hills. My co-pilot drove the car during that stretch with no particular attention or effort to achieving good fuel economy, and included spirited acceleration and hard stops. We covered 37.4 miles and returned a fuel economy of 37.1 mpg.
I took back the wheel for the last 10 miles and made a particular effort to hypermile the car. I managed to achieve 51.9 MPG over those 10.1 miles.
In the end we traveled 155.7 miles, 60.9 on electricity and used 2.55 gallons of gas. Total fuel economy for this trip thus was 61.1 mpg.
Overall the car was very solid yet seemed light and firmly hugged the road. It handled rough turns like it was painted to the road. Inside it was bright, cheerful highly technical and spacious.
It was fast and could surge onto the highway and could briskly pass other cars without any discernible strain. I measured 60 to 80 mph time on the highway at 7.8 seconds. It was a very compelling and confident vehicle.
One could never detect when the car switched from EV to charge sustaining mode. Stepping hard on the accelerator once in CS mode usually produced a noticeable engine noise which seemed faint and muted and followed the expected demand with a slight delay. There was the occasional unexpected rev here and there, but it never created any issues.
Of particular note, no change in sound or behavior could be detected when passing 70 mph in charge-sustaining mode, the controversial state where the ICE always participates in turning the driveshaft. I repeated this trial numerous times to be sure.
The sound system boomed thr0ugh six speakers, and the HVAC, seat comfort and graphic interfaces were excellent. Those vivid LCD screens are just awesome.
Overall it was a really outstanding experience that I will always remember. The car is an awesome unlimited daily driver that was highly potent and flexible. With care, more than 50 miles of range and 50 miles per gallon in CS mode could be obtained. With no particular effort or attention to driving efficiently, expect EV ranges and CS MPGs in the high 30s.
For another perspective, you can actually read the review of the reporter who accompanied me on this journey, Seth Fletcher of Popular Science: Never Mind the Naysayers: The Chevy Volt is Excellent
+31
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:12 am)I hate feeling jealous –but if it can’t be avoided,
+18
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:15 am)Awesome charging station ^_^
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:20 am)….(sorry, the edit time ran out on my post #1). I wanted to say, “Lyle, yes I’m jealous, but I’ll win out by the end of this month. If you remember, you had to be out of town during the NYC test drives this March when I got my first drive in a Volt. And I’m registered for another drive in my home town (Orlando) on the Unplugged Tour later this month. So that’ll even the score and it’ll be your turn to feel jealous!
/Just kidding, of course —your dedication is genuinely appreciated!
+19
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:44 am)Great report Lyle. The interesting posts just keep coming!
I’m thinking that my guess of 42 MPG in CS Mode under the EPA drive cycles might not be that far off given the roughly 38 MPG Lyle’s co-driver got at 50-60 MPH and the fact that the average speed on the EPA cycles is well below that. Combine that MPG that with the roughly 40 AER you get in CD Mode and you can start putting up some serious MPG numbers. Add in two charges a day and you’ll start seeing the 250+ MPG we’re hoping for. Nice.
Having people drive the Prius after the Volt is also priceless. What did the reviewer say?:
At the end of our full-day drive, a GM rep shrewdly handed over the keys to a 2010 Prius, a car I had driven before and enjoyed. The Prius is roomier than the Volt, but as soon as I turned on the ignition and started moving, the gas engine loudly snapped on, making me long for the comparatively silent, gliding operation of the Volt. The steering felt stiff, the transitions between battery and parallel power jarring.
I think it would be great for GM to arrange for some of these back-to-back rides for our Prius owning friends who frequently stop by to say hello and tell us how great the Volt is! Might not be a bad idea for Chevy dealers as well. Maybe GM is on to something here. (Really I don’t hold anything against the Prius. It’s a fine commuter car. It’s just that building up your car in your own mind by tearing down the competition doesn’t do anything for me).
+4
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:19 am)as to the “controversy” over the fact that the ICE drives the wheels in CS mode: this is due to the fact that the traction motor needs an assist at speeds over 70 mph whether you are in CD mode or CS mode. a great question came up during the webcast which asked whether they could have avoided this had they added a second gear at higher speeds (which would presumably allow the traction motor to achieve the speed with lower rpm). the answer was that gm did not go that route because the overall vehicle operation would be smoother if there were not a gear shift. i think that was the right decision and so engaging an assist to the traction motor was the outcome.
i’m less inclined to think of the volt as being a great car and more inclined to think of it as being a great start. given the current state of the technology and my observations of the development process for the volt, it appears to me that volt development has been driven by sound engineering decisions.
+45
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:23 am)Great 150mi driving review Lyle. My favorite part is the Solar Parking Lot Charger!
Turn parking lots into power stations, keeps the hot sun off your car, keeps the Arabs out of your pocketbook
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Oct 14th, 2010 (1:43 am)(click to show comment)
+8
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:49 am)Thanks for the PopSci link!
I wonder who is behind the bashing of the Volt?
Oh, yeah, I think it’s making some people nervous!
-81
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:49 am)(click to show comment)
+6
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:54 am)I’ve been saying for as long as I’ve been around this board that GM should be connecting the engine to the wheels on the freeway in CS mode – it is the most efficient that way. When GM announced that the Volt did have the direct connection, my response was: well, duh, that’s the smart way.
For some reason the comments on all of the articles plus the bashing articles themselves are all wound up about the direction connection.
I just don’t understand the worry. However you feel about the CS fuel mileage… it would be worse without the direct connection.
+8
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:56 am)The VOLT EV range and miles per gallon will be optimized without the weight of extra passengers in the car.
+6
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:57 am)Hey… Lyle .. you had three people in that drive and not sure how much other weight. Those numbers can certainly be increased if there is just one person and you are trying to get good mpg.
I would say a lot of people in daily driving will be routinely getting a easy 100mpg+
I’m sure there are a lot of GM employees feeling a good sense of pride when they read these reports… and they more than deserve to feel good about this car. It certainly is a true game changer!
+5
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:58 am)In having my 06 two Seater Insight for this last 4 years and developing skill in Hypermiling I think sliding into a Volt and Getting 50 AE miles and 50 MPG in CS mode is realistically in my and the Volt’s capabilities. I am putting away $ as fast as I can and hopefully will not have to lease. March seems so far away but it is getting closer by the minute. Really looking forward to my trip in March to pick it up.
Take Care,
TED
+9
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:07 am)Considering this report .. you had three people in the car .. and the way you were driving and the numbers you reported… that original MPG of 230mpg may be true for a lot of drivers!
-2
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:07 am)Congrats Lyle! The dream has finally become a reality. Let me point something out here…
Lyle said… “I took back the wheel for the last 10 miles and made a particular effort to hypermile the car. I managed to achieve 51.9 MPG over those 10.1 miles.”
Steps in energy transformation in CS Mode:
1. Gas to Mechanical Energy
2. Mechanical to Electrical Energy
3. Electrical to Mechanical Drive
Step 1 + 2 + 3 =VOLT GETS 51.9 MPG!!!
Steps in energy transformation ICE:
1. Gas to Mechanical Drive
Step 1 = FORD FIESTA GETS 40 MPG…
What witchcraft is this??? I was always taught that you loose efficiency in energy transformation. Ideas Anyone??
+4
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:10 am)In the coming months and years, GM may be able to use their onstar data to compile mileage stats for the entire Volt fleet.
> total EV miles
> total CS miles
> fleet average fuel economy for total miles
> fleet average fuel economy for CS miles
> average gallons of fuel saved, and cost in $$, per car compared with similar class car (e.g. Cruze)
> total gallons saved for entire fleet, and cost saved in $$, and # of barrels of crude not processed.
These numbers, I believe, will be shocking and compelling. And they will become some of the Volts best selling points.
I hope GM remains transparent with these data sets.
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:17 am)I will begin posting my data set as soon as I take delivery. The first will be the trip from Michigan back to Florida in CS mode. Between Lyle and the other posters who will be getting early Volts we will have plenty of data to compare.
Take Care,
TED
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:19 am)Two reasons:
#1 A hybrid car can have a little engine because the electric motor helps with acceleration. A smaller engine running heavily loaded is more efficient than a larger engine carrying the same load.
#2 The electric conversion allows for running the engine at exactly the most efficient speed. With a transmission that has fixed ratios the engine is running too fast for cruise.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:19 am)There’s a lot more to this than you’re considering. There are the differences between the two cars physical bodies (weight, aerodynamics, rolling drag). The Volt has regen braking, the Fiesta does not. Also, by not having the ICE directly connected to the wheels you don’t need it to work hard and supply peak power the moment you pounce on the accelerator pedal. The battery acts as a buffer so the ICE just needs to provide the average power you are using and this is more efficient, even if the Volt doesn’t fully take advantage of this because it tries to keep the ICE somewhat aligned with the accelerator so that the engine noise loosely matches with the cars performance.
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:20 am)@Jordo: The “witchcraft” is in the braking: in an ICE car when you hit the brakes your momentum is converted to heat in the brake pads, and thus lost. In the Volt when you hit the brakes your momentum is converted back to electricity and fed back into the battery. Next time you hit the accelerator you do not use gas to accelerate but the electricity you gained at that last braking.
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:35 am)Hey posters don’t forget the Volt was extensively tuned in the wind tunnel for superior Aero. There is probably no driver feedback in the Ford. Also Lyle’s skill in Hypermiling as also showing.
Take Care,
TED
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:40 am)The Volt uses only battery power for the first 40 miles. Then switches to a mix of battery and gasoline generator. Under generator mode (called CS) the battery launches the car during the first 20 mph of acceleration from a stop. This system is a great way to offset the weight of the vehicle including 3 or 4 people on board. Real nice set up. Very quiet and low emission as well.
=D-Volt
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Oct 14th, 2010 (3:02 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:49 am)Fiesta CdA?
Fiesta engine size and type? BSFC at @16kw output at steady 65mph?
Fiesta Tires?
Regen braking
+6
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:24 am)Just because the Volt can use some of the power from the ICE mechanically in parallel with power from the traction motor doesn’t mean it HAS to. GM engineers have designed the control to CHOOSE the most efficient operation: series-parallel, parallel (only for short timespans), series only, or EV only. Choices are good here. Steady output for electric generation or steady output for mechanical propulsion are seen identically by the ICE. GM can seemlessly mix and match as they choose. This is a GOOD thing.
The question that should asked given all of these efficiency optimizing choices, compnents (tires, wheels, AC, radio, etc), strong regen with larger motor/battery, smaller ICE, and bigger battery buffer, and lower Cd (according to GM’s wind tunnel testing) is:
Why does the Prius appear to have a 10-20% fuel economy advantage vs the Volt under CS mode given the only noticeable disadvantage for the Volt in this regard is its extra 500lbs or so of weight?
The Volt is getting phenomenal reviews thus far. It’s AER makes it a nice leap forward from anything currently on the market. It is more refined, higher performing, higher contented, and will return at least twice the gas fuel economy for most drivers compared to its closest competition. There is no doubt in my mind that more tyan enough consumers will see enough value in the Volt to become buyers. The patented Voltec drivetrain looks to be a tremendous coup for GM that they can leverage across many models if they choose. All of this said, I’m am soooo looking forward to the next generations of Voltec. In know that smart engineering can take this excellent foundation and make it even better and not just by the small, baby incremental steps we are used to seeing in the automotive world. Bring on that next gen battery, bring on that next gen extender power source, bring on market specific configurability! I can hardly wait!
N(F)PNS! f=freaken
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:54 am)Lyle, thanks for your report.
It appears you have validated the experience of many other reporters. The VOLT will deliver performance based on the drivers techniques.
Hard driving equals more energy use and “normal driving” equals pretty good economy. In all cases the ride is great and comfortable.
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Oct 14th, 2010 (4:58 am)(click to show comment)
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:07 am)I just can’t wait for the turbo engine version. Especially now that we know torque can go from the engine to the wheels. Electric start offs combined with turbo high speed should make for quite an interesting car.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:12 am)Its a very small engine for a nearly 4000lb car, if CS mpg is so important GM may have to increase the size of the ICE like Toyota recently did with the 2010 Prius.. and I dont think anyone here wants that.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:12 am)Maybe GM has a pre-production turbo engined Volt they could let me do a long term test on.
8-)
+5
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:16 am)Thanks for your view on the Voltec drive system. I believe you’re missing the point. The very early Volt mule cars were basic battery/electric motor test vehicles. Providing what has been described many times as linear. A steady even ramp up of speed to a max (initially) of 104 mph. A very early test drive by a car magazine writer raved about the Volt. But he seasoned the sparkling review with a mention of how linear the acceleration is. And went so far as to suggest installing a power band feeling to mimic a “normal” car. This was his only complaint. Now, 6 months later, we have a production Volt which provides 40 miles of full EV drive in a linear fashion. Followed by (here’s the good part) 300 miles of EV driving with the added bonus of a power boost (or passing gear is you wish) at high speeds. The transmission is refined to the point (in this GEN 1 car) to provide this additional feature.
Future Voltec models may very well use a motorcycle type generator engine, rotary, or perhaps a design not yet in service. The bottom line is that it’s all good.
I have a 2011 Volt on order to purchase outright. The latest news regarding the CS boost feature has made my month! Just 10 weeks until delivery from Paradise Chevrolet in Ventura California. My wife has told her coworkers that a Volt will soon be charging in her garage. The response she’s getting is, “Wow cool!”. Why do I have the feeling she is going to demo drive half the neighborhood?
=D-Volt
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:18 am)A turbo charger would increase the effective size of that 1.4L very efficiently.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:21 am)The irony is that Hypermiler himself would get far better mileages is he drove it.. and no need to use the fancy pulse & glide technique either.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:25 am)#30 Dave K.
Any houses for sale in your neighborhood? (for demo drives)
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:46 am)In a previous post, I wrote that my home city of Bayamon, Puerto Rico built a similar solar powered charging station for electric vehicles, although the only official electric car in Puerto Rico was the red Tesla Roadster taht I saw last month. In the article printed in the local paper “El Nuevo Dia” (in Spanish), there is a photo of the station with the same Tesla Roadster parked and being recharged. But the web version of the article just describes it, and has no photos. Here is the article again:
http://www.elnuevodia.com/bayamonenbuscadesuautonomiaenergetica-782325.html
So I have a place to charge the Volt if I am away from home. When will Chevy bring the Volt to Puerto Rico? I wish I knew!! But I am still hoping that it will arrive by 2012.
Raymond
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:47 am)That’s not entirely correct. MG-A [b]has[/b] to exist to support full speed EV mode, it will always be there. you can add a mechanical range extender with additional generator, or you can use something like a fuel cell with no mechanical generator. so long as your range extender is not coupled to MG-A and can output 57kw it can be whatever you like (mr fusion?).
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:51 am)Great report Lyle, Thanks! How does it feel to drive in EV mode with no range anxiety? Since you didn’t comment about it, I assume range wasn’t even a concern. I really like that. I also like your comments about CS at 70mph. All the controversy over the past few days and you test it and find the transition undetectable. How cool is that? I also like the Solar charging shed! Is there some GM or government program to build them elsewhere?
Thanks for all your work! Keep these reports coming!
ps. My order status moved to 2050 yesterday. The excitement continues to build!
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:09 am)The bashers seem to be the musclecar fans and many anti-Obama conservatives. I am in no way a fan of how the GM bailout went down, but I believe in GM’s engineers taking the first steps in a viable EV. As batteries, motors and generators evolve, efficiency is sure to increase. For now, a gas ICE is proven and reliable. In the future, maybe a fuel cell or even Mr. Fusion.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:17 am)This is incorrect. The ICE does not participate in CD mode. This was made very clear in the video that you’re referring to.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:18 am)In a previous post I wrote that my home city of Bayamon, Puerto Rico has built a solar powered station that supplies part of the electrical energy for a few municipal buildings, but also has three charging stations in the parking space below the photoelectric panels, just like the one shown here by Lyle.
In the local newspaper “El Nuevo Dia” (in Spanish) there was a few photos of the stations with a red Tesla Roadster (which I have previous seen up close near my workplace) parked and being recharged. The web version of the article doesn’t have the photos (I asked the author to publish them), but it described the system and gives the story about the Tesla Roadster, which is the only registered electric vehicle in Puerto Rico (the owner of the car is also the owner of the company that build the solar powered station):
http://www.elnuevodia.com/bayamonenbuscadesuautonomiaenergetica-782325.html
Now that my city has this charging station, I have a place to charge my Volt where I am away from home. I don’t know the rate, but it must be better than the regular $0.20 per KWH I pay at home. But I still ask when will Chevy bring the Volt to Puerto Rico? I don’t know, but I am hoping it will be here by 2012. Then I can become the second user of that charging station.
Raymond
-3
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:32 am)We used to call the ice/generator in the Volt a genset, and that implied an optional item that could be de-selected in the options list or just replaced by something different.. we cant use that word anymore since now we know the ICE has other duties as well. No more unplugging the genset and toting it over to the GM dealership for tuning and repairs.
The dream for a serial electric dies, perhaps someone else will take up the ball.
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:37 am)George Bower, et. al.: Seems like the answer to the MPG question is “anything you want it to be”. I’m being cute of course, but “results will vary” just cannot be exaggerated.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:43 am)Thank you, Lyle, for all the great news you have posted here, and I congratulate you for all the fun you are having while testing the Volt. I suggest that Chevy sponsor a EV range competition between the test drivers, and see who can get the maximum EV-only range. I read that Prius and hybrid Escape owners do this often, and post their results somewhere. Maybe the winner among the test drivers will get a cash rebate for their Volt purchase.
Meanwhile, I bet that some of the other fellow members of this forum that have a chance to do a test drive will try their own methods to extend the EV-only range, such as drafting behind larger vehicles and SUVs. I presently use these methods with my 1995 Buick Regal that helps me save on gas and reach up to 21 MPG (on a factory standard 3.8 L V6 engine). That may be a low MPG number, but it is a Sport Sedan and wasn’t designed to save much. But it motivates me to keep my Regal in optimum condititions and extend its usefulness until I can replace it with my own Volt (in Jolt Blue!).
Then when the fellow members do get their own Chevy Volts, we must have our own contest and post the highest ranges here on a permanent page for all future visitors and members to see. I am willing to donate some of the cost to promote this, and even give our a prize or a plaque with the member’s name, date of the contest, and the reached range.
Raymond
+5
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:53 am)Great work Lyle!
Keep the experiences coming!! I have been here for three years, but every day I still seem to learn something new….
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:55 am)The victory will be even sweeter if the EV range contest is someday won with a Volt SS Turbo edition.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:59 am)Lyle’s report sure seems to validate the engineering for most here, now the question turns to price/value.
No questions the price is, well, pricey. But I can’t help reflect on other new technologies that started off ‘pricey’ and then came down with scale.
I’m old enough to remember the first electronic calculators(though I can say I was just past toddler stage when my parents sprung for the first color TV in town–THAT was expensive).
Heck, I remember buying a flat screen 5 years ago for about $1800. Now, that same TV is $800, or maybe less.
iPhones, iPads, PC’s, Laptops?
As to the automobile, who here remembers when ABS was an expensive option?
Early Adopters with some extra cash will drive Volt sales for now. Methinks the rest of us can sit back, wait for the price to come down, and enjoy the ride.
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (7:19 am)“With care, more than 50 miles of range and 50 miles per gallon in CS mode could be obtained.”
That’s pretty sweet.
Oct 14th, 2010 (7:25 am)Great report, I’m happy to hear the real world data, and positive driving experience the Volt apparently is acheiving.
That said, how did you manage to drive the Volt, “throughout northeast Michigan”, and never leave Oakland or Macomb counties? US-10, typically, is where one begins to cross into northern mi., east or west.
PREFERABLY, WEST!
Sorry for the digression. Have a nice day, now, back on topic….
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (7:26 am)I’ll add regenerative braking.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (7:39 am)The only time the Volt is not a pure BEV or a serial electric is in CS mode and high torque demand.
+18
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:00 am)I am as annoyed by Volt and GM bashers as anyone here, but I don’t see how you can extend that to stereotyping them as “anti-Obama conservatives.” The political tangent just wasn’t necessary. I could go into my persuasion and how I feel about it, but I’d just rather leave the politics out of it, please. We have enough issues with the trolls and the posters that distort the Volt facts. Thanks.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:04 am)I must not have expressed myself clearly. GM is only choosing to use the ICE as a power extender for efficiency purposes to make the most efficient use of the ICE on-hand. This does not need to be the case the 110kw traction motor is capable of full power. GM has also chosen to augment the traction motor with the generator motor at high speeds but again they have chosen to for efficiency reasons. If they develop an engine that is super efficient (>40% BSFC) only at ~15-25kw at steady load (which I really hope they are working on a low cost version), they can then choose to never transmit more power through the generator motor shaft. My guess is that there will still be some circumstances where it will make sense to still do this. I just don’t see the technological shortcoming that is bothering you. If your concerns were cost and packaging then that would be another matter.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:06 am)Beautiful.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:08 am)The increase in size was to make accellerating more efficient. The smaller engine is plenty big for normal highway loads and in theory is capable of being more efficient in this situation. This is an advantage of being 100% EV first and only needing average power from the ICE.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:09 am)Thanks again Lyle for another smile inducing report. My hypermiler heart skipped a beat when you said you got over 50 mpg for a ten mile stretch. Would GM ever have dreamed this car could turn out so fantastic when they first began to build it!
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:13 am)In that sense, you are correct. It is not simple or practical to swap in a different engine or whole genset. You can, however, hack out some sub-routines from the code and make it 100% serial at a small efficiency cost.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:14 am)Everyone should read that Popular Science article that Lyle linked to at the end. It’s really beautifully written, and may become my new standard for introducing people to this car (“here, read this article first”). Nice job, Seth Fletcher.
-11
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:18 am)(click to show comment)
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:29 am)“I spent the better part of a warm October day driving a Chevrolet Volt throughout northeast Michigan”
Based on the places you went you were in Southeast Michigan not northeast. I know so what.
-13
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:29 am)(click to show comment)
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:34 am)As proof, don’t forget to take an occasional photo of your “OnStar Connect” app from your iPhone or Droid. It would be neat to see the readings.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:37 am)I’ve been reading about a nice new hybrid from Lexus coming to market. The most noticeable aspect of this car is the lack of acceleration. The second most notable aspect is that the fuel economy is not much better than the Volt in CS mode.
Nevermind the Prius, I’d like to know about a side by side comparison with the former best hybrids you can buy today. Lincoln, Lexus, Infinity, and so forth for the cars not there yet. The trade off in long range fuel economy for short range gas free driving is, by far, the most compelling reason to put the Volt in the driveway above anything else.
After the numbers, the true beauty of the Volt is just how good of a car it is overall.
Volt drivers will have no problem with having one on the street and in the driveway next to a neighbor’s Lexus. The comparisons will prove the Chevy to be the car to have.
Good luck to the guys (and gals) that will be taking delivery of the Volt.
I’m green with envy.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:44 am)Actually if you check out the BSFC maps:
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-technical-discussion/62586-2010-prius-2zr-fxe-engine-efficiency-map.html
The 1.5l engine is -never- more efficient than the 1.8l. the prius makes sure to not run the engine without 10kw+ load, so you completely avoid the really low area. That’s one thing that’s kind of confused me about the Volt reports, of the ICE still running when you come to a stop. from a power perspective it makes sense (it’s dumping it’s power to the battery to get back to correct SOC) but from a NVH perspective i would kill the ICE when the driver starts braking – it’s much nicer to stop in silence.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:51 am)Regarding the controversy over GM ‘lying’…… maybe there’s a silver lining in this dark cloud if the average person feels more comfortable with the Volt being a ‘hybrid’ instead of an EV. Hybrid is a familiar term, and with familiarity there is comfort and acceptance. Just as long as they realize the Volt is a ‘SuperHybrid’.
Well, today’s my day for driving the Volt in San Francisco. Weather is sunny and perfect. much as I anticipate I’ll be feeling early this afternoon.
P.S. Oh Corvette Guy- thought of a good catch line for one of your Volt ads…. ‘Peace of Mind’. I’d be honored if you’d use it.
-56
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:59 am)(click to show comment)
-3
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:12 am)Sorry for the digression, but some of you long-term posters might be interested in seeing the latest snarky guano that Statik is doling out on his Leaf website. I think the content more than speaks for itself – check it out :
http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/10/12/how-to-fix-the-volt/
Just again makes me wonder what his true motivation has been for his past posts here – much like resident naysayer Charlie H. . Smugness is not a virtue, by the way.
On the bright side, I’m looking forward to a full public apology to Maximum Bob and the whole Volt team sometime next month.
PS – Enjoyed your posts over there, Don C ! “Carcus 3″ , not so much.
+4
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:19 am)From the Popular Science article:
http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2010-10/never-mind-naysayers-chevy-volt-excellent
“This points to the Volt’s biggest weakness: Its $41,000 base price tag …
The car is so pleasant to drive that I can’t imagine finding early adopters to be a problem. But after that, I’d like to see the Volt become available to the rest of us. “
+9
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:22 am)Drivin hard and at speeds over 80 MPH my 2010 prius averages about 40 MPG. Since the volt can do a similar drive and average 61MPG I would have to say I am quite pleased.
+1 for Lyles post – I am just waiting for the day I can buy my Volt!!!
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:25 am)Seems like Statik is always b!tching about something. His argument makes no sense to me. If he only wants 40miles then put it in mountain mode when he hits 40 miles. I’ll take as many electric miles as I can get.
How does he defend the huge range in the Leaf?
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:28 am)You must have skipped the chapter on Gears and Pulleys.
I’m also guessing you’ve never ridden a 10+ speed bicycle.
NPNS!
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:30 am)OT:
OK, we have read that the test drivers are all going to get a 240V charging system installed. But is there any real advantage to it, except for decreased charging time?
If I have no real need for “quick” charging is there any benefit to it?
I guess what I am asking is, which is better for the battery pack, a long slow charge at 120V or a quicker charge at 240V?
And along those same lines, if I only drive 15 miles one day, and only expect to do that again the next, would it be better to skip a charge cycle, or is it better to keep the battery pack at full charge by charging every night?
So what do you all think?
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:36 am)The functional purpose of the car is that most people will not use any gas at all (sorry, my gradeschool math teacher said you can’t divide by 0, so I’m not saying ‘infinite’!).
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:40 am)Loboc: Stereotyping muscle-car owners is also inappropriate. I happen to drive a large V-8 car (Magnum R/T) and am also a Volt fan.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:40 am)I think the smile on Bob Lutz’s face has grown substantially.
No know that GM’s engineers are proud of their accomplishments.
Great report Lyle! And put out for all to read at a good time, IMHO.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+5
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:42 am)Sounds like you make a lot of long trips then if 40 miles of pure electric isn’t enough. In the Prius “10 or 15 mile all electric mode”, can you go 0-60 in 9 seconds and travel at 100mph or does it start using gas.. you know.. in its “all electric” mode?
+7
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:46 am)Hi Barry252, I’m a conservative, musclecar loving person. I also think the Volt is a huge, positive step in automotive history. I take alot of abuse from non-automotive conservatives, who are clueless about cars, and especially about the VOLT. Go GM, Go Chevy Volt!
272 ft-lb of torque, up and down the dial of a compact cars accelerater pedal. that’s a good thing.
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:49 am)The charging station shown has no level I outlets shown, the most common outlet type in the US. Those are bone stock mandatory, while fast charging with brand new equipment on the market is merely a nice option. If Jalopnik had a clue about electric vehicles, the charging station shown might qualify for their “You’re doing it wrong” section. Although solar shade awnings are great to see.
Fast charging with not yet out on the market specialty equipment, with no after market adaptors available that I know of, thanks to SAE, is a nice option, but having the most common outlet already in existence is mandatory. The Volt has a cord for those, as does EVERY single commercially viable other electric vehicle ever built.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_5
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:53 am)I would bet that the January Edition of MotorTrend, Car and Driver, Road and Track will have that comparison for you. Where it should be is in Lyle’s new magazine: “EREV and Hybrid”.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:57 am)Darius,
I do not think you understand how this system works (or maybe it me, if so please do correct me). My cartoon understanding of the system is that the ICE has a direct link to the motor/generator. The ICE essentially spins the motor’s shaft to generate electricity. The cog at the end of this shaft also spins. By adding three lines of code to the control software GM allows this spinning cog to engage the planetary gears, just like it does in EV mode, to add additional power to the system at speeds above 70 mph.
So what does this mean. ANY external power source that can spin the generator shaft can be used as the “extender” , e.g. gas, diesel, wankle or any other new fangled engine can be used. Now if you have an external power source that generate electricity, e.g. fuel cell or one of the engine concepts that direct generate electricity, then its even simpler. There is no direct connection to the generator and they system operates exactly like in EV mode, but the electricity comes from the alternative source instead of the batteries.
In my view, what GM has come up with here is an extremely flexible design that is a truly beautiful and elegant engineering solution, and in retrospect is soooo obvious.
Regards,
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:00 am)I’m an Tim-Allen-esque American. I want it to charge as fast as possible
.
The advantage (for me) is multiple charges on the weekend.
Go to Home Depot. charge.
Go to Target. charge.
Go back to Home Depot for the little thinger you forgot the first time. charge.
Go to grocery store. charge.
Go to Lowes because Home Depot was out of the little thingers. charge.
repeat.
For weekdays, I could do with the overnight lower-power charging.
Another advantage is time-of-day charging. If you can charge more quickly during the lower-cost hours you may avoid running over into peak hours. Since I can’t get TOD rates, this really doesn’t matter to me.
+5
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:15 am)News of today:
Dollar weaker
Jobless claims up
Oil lower?
November oil is heading higher. Just in time for Winter home heater refill. Anyone else sick of this rigged game?
NPNS
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:22 am)Yep, Loboc understands topping off. You can already do that at those locations with the regular level I cable you purchase with the Volt and is the minimum standard for any electric vehicle, and which works in the hundreds of millions of every day outlets already all over the US. If you are thoughtful, you might let them know you are doing that, even though it’s a cheaper perk to them than parking already is for shopping at their store.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:24 am)I am wondering if any of the journalist test drivers have driven it at the maximum 100 mph and what the car did at that speed, i.e. vibrate, make a loud whirring noise etc. Furthermore you’d have to test it during electric only and in charge sustaining mode since the latter engages the ICE for wheel assist. So does the car “feel” different running at the max between the two conditions.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:27 am)From Lyle above: “Inside it was bright, cheerful highly technical and spacious.”
and “There was the occasional unexpected rev here and there, but it never created any issues”
and “Those vivid LCD screens are just awesome.” -should have added a “!” there Lyle.
Spoken like the true no. 1 Volt super-fan.
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:28 am)I still think an mpg value should never include miles driven in CD/EV mode.
Trying to mix them just mucksup the number.
lol…..
Dude, that is soooo my normal weekend……….except the charge part.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:31 am)Looking at the “Kinematice Architecture” of the Voltec Electric Drive makes me wonder what would happen if each of the five “Planetary Carrier” gears were directly attached to their own small 60 hp electric motor? What if the gears also varied in diameter to create more power through greater RPM’s. As the acceleration demand changed the motors can be powered on or off sending greater RPM’s to the Sun Gear. I’m not an engineer, but it looks to me like there is a world of possibilities when using electric motors. I hope GM engineers are not resting while the Volt makes history.
NPNS!
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:32 am)I was wondering the same thing. Heck, if you took it to 85mph, what’s an additional 15mph?
I think the Volt is computer controlled/limitted to 100mph. But you have to wonder, if your going downhill in the Sierra Nevada’s on your way to the “Wild Horse Saloon” by Reno NV. what will the Volt do if you start going past the 100MPH mark?
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:33 am)Actually, “no comment” is correct. The traction motor needs assistance over 70 mph in both modes. In CD mode, that is accomplished using the MG to alter the gear ratio. In CS mode, the ICE in connection with the MG does the same thing. The difference is, in CD mode, the Volt is only using it’s two electric motors so it’s still fully battery driven, whereas in CS mode, the ICE is involved as well.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:33 am)If you live in a severely cold climate or severely hot climate, leaving the Volt plugged in to 240V while charging or not in use would reduce the time it takes to “pre-condition” the car before unplugging and driving away.
The Volt’s temperature controlled (liquid heated or cooled) battery pack is designed to remain within the range of 32 to 76 degrees. This is one of the things that helps the battery’s long life. You can program the car to pre-condition the cabin, (heating it up or cooling it down) while plugged in so you don’t use up your EV range, BEFORE you finish your first cup of mornin’ joe… Having the car plugged in to 220V will reduce the amount of time it takes to git’-er-done.
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:35 am)Yes. A lot of us are mad as hell as a matter of fact!
I really wouldn’t care so much if it just stayed the same price over time. It’s the wild swings that are making life difficult.
There is no way that a barrel of oil from Saudi costs over $1 to produce and ship. (Some quotes on the Internet are saying just that.) The price is not following supply vs demand fundamentals.
Less than 20% of our oil comes from the Persian Gulf. If we could get our demand down by that amount, we could make a bunch of sheiks cry like little girls.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:36 am)OK I’m confused, If the engineers said they decided to couuple the ICE at 70 mph because of thermal issues with the traction motor, thereby lowering the load on the electric motor and the excessive heat, then why would they not want to do the same in CD mode since the same thermal problem would come into play? The traction motor was getting hot at 6500 rpm without the assistance of the ICE so why wouldn’t the Ice come on at 70 mph to avoid excessive heat from the traction motor in CED mode as well?
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:37 am)And gasoline is back up to $3.19 to $3.29 for Premium in my town.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:39 am)And a couple of Texas oil men who used to be President.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:41 am)Weight and cost aside, it’s not possible. If I’m not wrong, the planet carrier and the output shaft are attached as one, and the planets both rotate and “orbit” the sun gear at high speed.
At least, I can’t imagine how this would work (nor where you’d mount these hypothetical extra motors). I think your power harness would get pretty twisted up, to the point of catastrophic failure, nay, utter self-destruction, in say, oh, roughly 12 milliseconds
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:44 am)Oh man, would that be a suh-weet feature to have on those cold Wisconsin winter mornings!
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:48 am)In CD mode the traction motor uses assistance from the MG at higher speeds because its more efficient due to the traction motor spinning at 6500 RPM.
In CS mode the traction motor uses assistance from the MG in the form of getting electricity from it (Serial mode). Or if more torque is required (hard acceleration, high speed, whatever), the ICE also assists the MG with mechanical torque. This may happen at 70mph, it may not, it depends on the torque requirements and the efficiency map.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:50 am)The ICE is not needed in CD mode because the second motor is employed at high speeds. In CS mode this motor becomes a generator driven by the ICE. At high speeds the generator engages the planetary gears to provide addition power; however, instead of being powered by electricity it is powered by the ICE.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:51 am)Because it’s not the gas engine, strictly speaking, that’s changing the gear ratio and thereby lowering the RPMs of the traction motor. In BOTH cases, CD and CS modes, it’s the motor/generator (M/G-A) turning the ring gear. It’s just that in CD mode, M/G-A gets that energy from the battery. In CS mode, the ICE is already running and some of its mechanical energy is directed thru M/G-A to do the very same work.
In other words, why turn on the ICE, when the battery still has plenty of juice to do this same task?
EDIT: I mistakenly used “MG2″ instead of the more common “M/G-A” to refer to the non-traction motor-generator. So I updated the post. I’m still not certain it’s exactly the right abbreviation, so I hope you understand what I meant.
+6
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:53 am)His argument was that GM could shut up the naysayers by digging deeper than 8 kWh into the battery pack in order to ensure a full 40 mile AER. Of course that was before we knew that GM had decided to dig deeper than 8 kWh into the battery pack in order to ensure a full 40 mile AER!
The problem here was that the first reports by AutoWeek and Popular Mechanics was that the AER was in the low 30s. People just took those numbers and assumed that this “normal”. Now that we have a different set of drivers and the AER is more from the high 30s to the low 50s and people are more relaxed.
The issue is that people don’t have a context for these numbers so they don’t understand that the numbers aren’t nearly as meaningful as people think they are. Not to pick on our friend john1710, but he kept comparing the low 30s MPG number that AutoWeek got with the MPG numbers he gets when driving the Prius, which suggests the Prius is vastly more efficient than the Volt. That’s not very realistic. As we can see from Lyle’s experience, if you drive the Volt like John drives his Prius the Volt gets over 50 MPG in CS Mode. An AutoWeek 100 mile trip that uses 2 gallons of gas turns into a 1 gallon of gas trip is Lyle or John is driving.
In this regard, the CAB was a great idea. Too bad GM didn’t put it in place earlier. Most of these folks are like Lyle, meaning they’ve had experience with EVs and have driven EVs, and that experience will be reflected in abnormally high AERs and MPG numbers. That’s not 100% realistic by any means, at least not at first for most people — though they’ll get there I think — but it would have been better from a marketing standpoint to lead with this rather than the abnormally low numbers you’re going to get from AutoWeek.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:54 am)I dont think the pre-conditioning time is affected by the charger’s voltage/power. I think the power required to pre-condition the battery & car cabin is less that what 120V charger provides. If its really cold, its probably just a matter of time for the heat transfer. Correct me if i’m wrong, you went to the Volt-class, but thats how I see it.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:55 am)Wikipedia gives this advise:
“….. most electric vehicles use Lithium-ion batteries. Contrary to some recommendations, these batteries actually last longest if the battery is frequently charged; fully discharging them will degrade their capacity relatively quickly.[19] When storing however, lithium batteries degrade more while fully charged than if they are only 40% charged. Degradation also occurs faster at higher temperatures. Degradation in lithium-ion batteries is caused by an increased internal battery resistance due to cell oxidation. This decreases the efficiency of the battery, resulting in less net current available to be drawn from the battery.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_charger
Charging over night, every night sounds like the best policy to prolong its life. I have not seen anything published by GM on what is the best recharging policy. This would be a good question for Lyle or CorvetteGuy to answer.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
I’ll be back later.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:57 am)Today’s Thought for the Day brought to you by “stuart22″:
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:00 am)Actually at times in CS mode, the traction motor and the MG are both powered by electricity and the ICE is also assisting
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:01 am)The short answer is that it does and they do. In both CD and CS Modes the smaller motor couples with the ring gear at speeds above 70 MPH. The difference is that in CD Mode the smaller motor is being powered by the battery and is being turned electrically whereas in CS Mode the smaller motor is being powered by the engine and is being turned mechanically. (At least that’s my understanding).
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:04 am)I couldn’t wait for Corvette Guy…..
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:05 am)You could be right, but that was my take on the presentation… They mentioned 240V several times as the most “efficient” way of maintaining and charging the Volt. ‘Dammit Jim, I’m a Sales Manager not an Engineer!”
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:07 am)If the Volt gets about 40miles AER for most drivers, I’d consider that mission accomplished. The Leaf is promising 100miles AER. I think most drivers will get much less than this. Does this mean the Leaf is also “broken”?
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:09 am)The 240V charger is more efficient. At 240V you’re moving twice the watts as at 120V but at the same amp load. Since you’re moving twice the watts, you can charge in about 1/2 the time. So, your ohmic losses (losses as a results of resistance to the flow of electricity, creating heat) are cut in ~1/2.
As for battery life, Li battery chemistries like to be in the middle of their SOC (state of charge). So, doing a full discharge/charge every OTHER day is probably the best. That means that 1/2 the time your battery is hovering near the middle of is SOC.
All that said, it probably won’t matter, as GM has designed this battery to go through the full charge/discharge cycle once per day.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:12 am)bookdabook: I am wondering if any of the journalist test drivers have driven it at the maximum 100 mph
“we even took the Volt up to its limited top speed of 101 mph.”
Read more: http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595/green/127-mpg-this-volt-story-must-be-told/index.html#ixzz12Lm4lx8W
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:15 am)bookdabook: I am wondering if any of the journalist test drivers have driven it at the maximum 100 mph
Capt Jack: I was wondering the same thing. Heck, if you took it to 85mph, what’s an additional 15mph?
I think the Volt is computer controlled/limitted to 100mph. But you have to wonder, if your going downhill in the Sierra Nevada’s on your way to the “Wild Horse Saloon” by Reno NV. what will the Volt do if you start going past the 100MPH mark?
A: Yes–”we even took the Volt up to its limited top speed of 101 mph. Well, the speedo indicated 102 mph, but we were pointed downhill.” And the earth began to spin backwards. lol
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595/green/127-mpg-this-volt-story-must-be-told/index.html
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:16 am)Thanks guys, It makes perfect sense now. Without visual or tactual illustrations, some concepts can be difficult to grasp.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:18 am)I guess I read his statement to mean that the ICE participated in both modes (which is incorrect). It is true that the traction motor needs assistance at speeds over 70, either from the ICE or the generator…depending on which mode you are in.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:19 am)All and all not bad. 30-40 miles EV range and mid to high 30′s MPG in CS mode. Good combo!
I see the Volt as a fancy Cruze. It gets mid-30′s MPG but I can run around on EV only and not use any gas. If *my* needs are a lot of short runs, I might never use gas. I can still go a long distance but if that is my primary need, I would just go with a Cruze.
I am in the former. If I could average 35 miles in EV mode I would rarely use gas for commuting.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:19 am)Thanks CG – sorry I didn’t see yours before I posted mine a few ticks down the list, but two is better than none, no?
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:21 am)Lyle -
I wish you could have stopped by my house in Ann Arbor during the course of your test drive!
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:24 am)One more thing then back to work… Based on Lyle’s description, for those Volt Owners who will be able to plug-in at work, their gasoline usage will be even lower. It seems the biggest use of gas for them is when ‘Engine Maintenance Mode’ kicks for 10 minutes or so every 42 days!
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:25 am)Ha ha. No doubt when AutoWeek or Car&Driver get hold of it they’ll find they can drive about 60 miles — which means 50 miles as the battery degrades. Then maybe it will be broken. Then again maybe not. Nissan is having EV fans drive it so the current story is “you can get more than 100 miles”. These anchor numbers will serve to counterbalance the low range numbers you’ll see when people flog it. That’s why I’m saying GM made a mistake by not forming CAB earlier and getting more positive numbers — like Lyle is reporting here — out first.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:26 am)GM’s decision to state a range that surrounds the old 40 mile stated figure is not only more accurate, but it ups the ante vis å vis the LEAF. Somehow I don’t think Nissan wants to follow suit and, in a more truthful spirit, advertise the LEAF’s range as ‘between 60 and 120 miles’.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:30 am)From the PopSci article:
Well, I’d hardly expect the GM spokesperson to be complaining.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:30 am)You don’t need the ICE when you still have battery power. The second motor can kick in and take some of the rpms off of the main motor.
If you look at Cab Driver’s patent diagram from a couple weeks ago, the ICE and secondary motor are on the same shaft (except decoupled by clutches).
When the secondary motor has power from the battery, it is operating as a motor. When the battery is depleted, the ICE kicks in and the secondary motor operates as a generator which means it is no longer supplying torque to the gearbox.
The ICE’s torque is substituted as it both runs the generator and provides rpms to keep the primary motor within it’s ideal rpm range. This only happens in CS mode when the primary motor is over-revving or when more torque is needed.
Andrew said in the audio interview that 70mph *is not* the primary factor that causes the ICE to supply torque. Any torque requirement above the primary motor’s capacity (while in CS mode) would cause the ICE to supply some power.
All told though, the ICE supplying torque/rpms is a rare occurrence. The two electric motors have more than enough power for normal use. The ICE+generator can run and supply electricity to the primary motor and at the same time be de-coupled from the drive train.
This is not an easy concept to understand even for gearheads like myself. The old-school stuff keeps getting in the way. Once you get there though, the design is elegant and beautiful. It is way more sophisticated than first blush, but, way less complicated than a current 5-speed computer-controlled automatic.
I was in fact hoping that this was the true design. If you use a genset only (with no coupling to the drivetrain), it limits the upper mph and how fast you can get there. This way, it can be tweaked so that you could have a super-super-hybrid (SS-h anyone?) with on-demand musclecar acceleration and gas-sipping economy. (Like a Karma.)
Lyle, we need two 35mph-80mph runs. One in CS mode and one in CD mode. If the CS mode time is greater, this means that the ICE is supplying net torque to the wheels.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:30 am)I know what you mean, I really had to think this one through. Planetary gearsets mess with my head!
+5
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:31 am)It seems a lot of the journalists are getting it wrong. If most people never drive more than 40 miles (60km), then it’s quite possible that most of them will fill up the tank once a month, at worst. This is exactly as intended by GM’s engineers – too bad that motor journalists keep missing the point and instead accuse the Volt of being no better than a Prius.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:39 am)The other big advantage of plugging in, overnight or otherwise, is that you’re ensuring that the cells are kept at 71F.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:43 am)Your first paragraph is correct, the second is a bit off.
The traction motor provides 100% of the torque needed for acceleration below 70 mph, even in CS mode. The MG is decoupled from the planetary gearset completey, and only coupled to the ICE. It’s only at high speed, over 70 mph, where the MG and ICE are both coupled to the planetary gearset in order to reduce the RPMs of the traction motor and thus increase efficiency.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:44 am)I think AutoWeek did this and the CS Mode time was faster, mostly after 35-40 MPH. I understand your reasoning for comparing the two modes but not why you think the CS Mode times would have to be longer.
-1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:47 am)I think he’s right. I believe it was Larry Nitz in the info video who made clear it’s torque requirements not MPH that govern.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:48 am)…
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:52 am)Fair enough. My interpretation was that it was driven by the need to decrease the traction motor RPM solely to increase efficiency at high speed, not increase torque output.
I could be wrong.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:54 am)I am. The cat and mouse thing I can’t stand anymore. Here the gas was 103.4 a liter 2 days ago (that’s 3.62$ a gallon) and was suddenly 115.4 the next day (4.04$ a gallon). I’m sick and tired of this façon de faire.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:58 am)Good one !
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:08 pm)Excellent report Dr.
I almost feel sorry for the competition now.
“With care, more than 50 miles of range and 50 miles per gallon in CS mode could be obtained. With no particular effort or attention to driving efficiently, expect EV ranges and CS MPGs in the high 30s.”
If the quality of the Volt is as good as my 09 Malibu, and I believe it is………………..
—————————— The Volt will be UNSTOPPABLE! ——————–
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:13 pm)kdawg, Thanks for the response. I did not consider the idea of powering the M/G with both the ICE and electricity, and am not sure why they would do this. Can you point me to some info that explains how and why this is done? Thanks
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:23 pm)I think this is inaccurate. Andrew said in the telephone interview that 70mph is not a magic number and he doesn’t know where that came from.
Anytime the car has the ICE running, it can supply torque/rpms to the gearbox. It’s not like 6500rpm is a drop-dead number either. There are probably some motor (M/G B) speeds below that where it would be more efficient running both inputs. You wouldn’t want to run the ICE unnecessarily, but, if it’s more efficient to do so (or you need more torque for some reason), then do it.
Andrew also said that without a bunch of charts and diagrams, this concept is very difficult to explain with words only.
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:24 pm)Actually, the generator shaft can be powered by both the motor and ICE or the motor can be sucking some of the power. Most of the time it has to be as you say and sucking power (acting like a generator) to supply the traction motor and sometimes along with the battery.
-4
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:30 pm)I don’t hypermile. In fact, I’m quite outspoken against it… routinely stating the motto: JUST DRIVE IT
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:34 pm)I think it’s a little of both. The 70mph came from Larry Nitz’s comments. He was first referring to CD mode and explaining that they chose to engage the generator motor at around 70mph because at this point the traction motor’s losses get high enough that engaging the second motor to lower the traction motor’s RPM becomes effective. He did allude to the same situation in CS mode but Andrew Farah’s interview clarified that this can happen in CS mode under other circumstances based on the efficiency maps, which maks sense based on typical ICE efficiency maps.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:42 pm)That makes a good deal of sense. It’s not surprising that the actual operation is very complex, refined, and based on extensive efficiency mapping. The end result is to provide the most efficient combination of traction motor, MG, and ICE through the planetary. The solution to that end isn’t always simple or straightforward.
The main point should be that GM is using the most efficient combination of the three, while always leading with the traction motor.
-2
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:46 pm)My point is that this is not the case. It simply not possible to use any other motor within this concept. The current ICE is most efficient. The concept was developed back in 2007 which predicted of electric motor power fade at speed over 70 MPH. And in order to solve this problem GM came back for ICE (conventional one) help. Other solutions would be gearbox or AC motor (like electric locomotives) and different power electronics. Within this architecture it is not possible to use various range extenders because you have to have direct link to the wheels with all consequences. If you have direct link you have strict rpm/torque requirement which is not needed in case of pure genset option which leads to another efficiency/cost level of range extender.
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:47 pm)My take on it is that it was an “unintended consequence”. The second MG is needed to supplement the traction motor over 70 MPH. It still is in CS mode. It just so happens that it is already connected to the ICE when that clutch kicks in! Maybe it was thought of from day one, maybe it was just a “happy fault”. In any case it is interesting and does not seem to hurt anything. It sure as heck does not deter me. So why do I have to wait until March
. No, I’m not really complaining, just fantacizing what it would be like to have the Volt a couple of months earlier. After all, my salesman originally thought that it was possible to have one about now.
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:47 pm)In theory and in reality don’t always coincide but right-sizing the enginefor the load gives better opportunity for efficiency. With an average load of about 20kw, even a 1.4L engine like the Volt’s is bigger than it needs to be if that were the only load they had in mind. If Toyota were only concerned about 60kw max output, they wouldn’t have gone from 1.5 to 1.8 but they need 80-90 something kw max. It is just a more advanced engine in general that offsets its larger size penalty at light loads.
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:55 pm)I posted this yesterday and some others have too. Its a great listen and only 11min long. Regarding the 70mph part you can skip to 9min 50sec into it.
http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht
“Motor Trend’s reporting that the magic cutoff speed of 70 mph is what the car uses to determine whether or not to make the engine to partially drive the wheels is incorrect. The engine is used to partially drive the wheels when the car calculates that it will be a more efficient use of the engine’s power. There is no hard cutoff point.”
I would love to see the flow diagrams for the Volt’s efficiency maps, but Im pretty sure those are under lock & key.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:57 pm)Lyle wasn’t using any of the extreme hypermiling techniques, which are the ones I’m assuming you’re opposed to. He was just using the basic ones, more or less what my father calls “sensible driving”. Are you saying that you don’t gently accelerate or that you don’t take your foot off the accelerator when going downhill or gently glide to stops? Given the MPG you get on your Prius denials would not be credible.
+6
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:02 pm)A year or two ago, I said that GM engineering was going to produce when so many were putting their ability down. I said the day will come when the trolls will have to say – Well done GM.
I believe that day has come and some of the negativity needs to stop.
Well done -GM!!!!!!!!!
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:04 pm)From the story, a quote from Doug Parks: “We are about a month away from knowing the hard numbers.”
Ironic, isn’t it, that just about the last thing about the Volt to be released is going to be the EPA FUEL ECONOMY NUMBERS.
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:08 pm)You have to supply the MG with electricity otherwise spinning the ICE would do nothing. The reason why would be to satisfy the torque requirements in the most efficient manner. I wish i had GM’s efficiency maps and decision making algorithms. I don’t think they are public knowledge so I don’t have anywhere to point you.
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:09 pm)If I understand what you’re saying — that the ICE is needed in all situations to provide torque when the large traction motor running the sun gear would have to spin too fast — then you’re mistaken. We know this because in CD Mode the ICE never comes on. All power comes from the battery. Sort of a “what is is possible” situation.
What he’s saying is that you can substitute a fuel cell for the battery (you’d still need a battery for regen of course but that’s a detail) and the car would run just fine. The point I think you’re missing is that while the second motor turns the ring gear whenever the torque requirements would cause the larger motor turning the sun gear to spin too fast, the power to the smaller motor doesn’t need to be mechanical — it can be electrical.
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:12 pm)Darius, thanks for the reply. One of us has a misunderstanding as to how this system works, and for the sake of argument let’s say it’s me. As I stated, the ICE is directly connected to only the motor /generator. This M/G, powered by electricity or the ICE, and according to Kdawg, in some cases both, can engage the planetary gearset and provide power to the wheels. If the only way the ICE can provide power to the wheels is through the M/G than anything that can power the M/G can provide power to the wheels, and thus be used in this system. So what is wrong with my logic?
You said “Within this architecture it is not possible to use various range extenders because you have to have direct link to the wheels with all consequences. If you have direct link you have strict rpm/torque requirement which is not needed in case of pure genset option which leads to another efficiency/cost level of range extender.”
Since the ICE is indirectly linked to the wheels through the M/G why do you need “strict rpm/torque requirement”? This seems to be the crux of our disagreement and I would really like to know the answer, so please, or anyone else, provide links or other references supporting your assertion. – thanks
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:15 pm)Ha ha. I’m thinking this would be one of those “if we tell you we’ll have to kill you” situations.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:20 pm)I think that is a testament to just how disruptive a technology the Volt really is. And that is a good thing.
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:26 pm)You’re right but it might help to be more specific. There are two motor/generators. There is a large one that drives the sun gear. It always powers the wheels. There is a smaller motor/generator which is connected to either the case or the ring gear. In some situations, when torque demands are high, the smaller motor/generator disengages from the case, connects to the ring gear, and starts turning the ring gear. This changes the gearing and allows the large motor/generator to spin the sun gear more slowly.
The power that allows the small motor/generator to turn the ring gear could be electrical or mechanical or both. The large motor/generator which is turning the sun gear is always powered by electrical energy which comes from either the battery or the smaller motor/generator.
That’s what I understand anyway.
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:31 pm)Interesting. So if they can blend power from the ICE and electricity to satisfy torque requirements from the M/G when using it to power the wheels, then this would seem to mitigate Darius’ concern of needing “strict rpm/torque requirements” from the ICE. Sure, change the power source and you will have to change the control software, but that should be a relatively easy thing to do.
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:38 pm)I think the question is:
Does M/G-B plus M/G-A plus the ICE ever run at the same time? In other words, all three supplying torque.
I don’t see why they would do this because there would be harmonic problems in the connection between M/G A and the ICE. (Not to mention wasting gobs of gasoline.) However, theoretically it would add all the torque together for VERY quick launches. (Or, throw ring gears, planetary gears and such all over the road when the transaxel explodes.)
I wonder just how much power the transaxel can take and how much power the inverter can handle. These engineers always make things more heavy-duty than they have to be so idiots like me don’t break them on the first time out.
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:39 pm)DonC, thanks for the clarification and added information.
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:50 pm)OT Again:
News on the price of the GM stock for the IPO:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69C5SY20101013
OK, so who is going to buy some???
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:53 pm)That’s a question I’ve had. I think the answer has to be “Yes”. Say you’re going 75 MPH. You could be doing that for an hour, so you can’t use the battery for M/G B. That means the electricity for M/G B has to be coming from M/G A. At the same time, GM has said that this is a situation in which the ICE is providing torque. It does this by having M/G B turning the ring gear. In this case the ICE would be running and M/G A would be providing electricity to M/G B and turning the ring gear. No?
Oct 14th, 2010 (1:59 pm)Yes, torque requirements based on a “roaming” load variable, not a “defined” road speed.
(See my post directed to you in the last topic thread)
70mph might be correct at a certain load variable but it might be somewhat higher or lower depending on the where current conditions land on the efficiency map.
Whatever is most efficient.
“Just drive and smile!”
WOT
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:17 pm)Go to the Larry Nitz video and skip to 18min 26 seconds for the exact sentence that says all 3 can run at the same time. You can also watch from 17min 15seconds onward, which to me was the most informative part of the video regarding the parallel mode.
http://vxlive.feedroom.com/feedroom/http/4000/5172/6999/7438/Lobby/default.htm
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:29 pm)A PGE customer really tried nailing the author of the Popular Science piece in the comments area. Rather than harping on the gas used he pointed out the problems the Volt would give him when purchasing electricty to charge it from the tiered plans Pacific Gas and Electric (major utility in one of the Volt’s initial roll-out markets). After fudging the numbers a bit he managed to determine that running gasoline through his existing 50 MPG Honda was cheaper.
So is a bicycle.
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:41 pm)YEah, i read that post. That person was trying their hardest to fudge #’s to extremes to make a point, that really wasn’t a point at all. If you read between the lines its basically “I hate GM because they took my tax dollars and are run by the government”. There will always be haters. Once you’ve identified hate as their only reason to post something, just ignore it. I dont mind debating subjects with people, but if they are starting out w/an agenda, its a waste of time.
+8
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:43 pm)WOW!! The number of poorly worded negative comments has convinced me that the new Chevrolet VOLT has a lot of people worried, scared, and running for the hills!!
You can gauge your success by the number of naysayers who slither in!!
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (2:50 pm)The only “stupid fool” around here is you. In “war”….you never show all of your plans to “the enemy”. GM’s ingenious method for extracting the most amount of miles for the least amount of fuel had to be protected form all of the “copycats” of the world. The patent process is now complete….so the Volt’s drive train can not simply be reverse engineered and sold here by our enemies……excuse me….”the competition”……I mean….GM’s competition.
There is nothing stupid about holding your cards “close to your chest”.
I’m proud of you GM. Job well done!
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:03 pm)I think all that is correct. However, I’m talking about running the ICE when there is sufficient battery power to not run it. Can the ICE start to supply additional torque in addition to both motors in CD mode (not CS mode).
I see that kdawg is pointing back to the video. I will look again, but, I think he was talking CS mode at the time when M/G-A would be a generator not a motor. I can’t play videos at work, so, this will have to wait.
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:07 pm)I still say the mpg should never include the miles traveled in CD/EV mode. Blending the numbers just mucksup the metrics.
MPG calculations should start as soon as the ICE kicks on.
I say that because there will be an announcement that some group got xMPG.
/Trust me on this one…..
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:09 pm)Hey Lyle,
Do you have a smartphone to talk to the Volt? Can you post the stats from the phone?
Thanks,
Loboc.
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:21 pm)Nitz is talking about CS mode. The ICE is never on in CD mode. Here’s the sentence since you cant watch the video.
Nitz says “In fact, both motors can operate as motors, under high accelerations, with the engine helping in the background.”
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:27 pm)Some “group” already did. Motortrend: 127mpg
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/10/motor-trend-reveals-the-secret-to-getting-127-mpg-in-chevy-volt/
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:41 pm)After ~3 years of watching this website almost daily and being “involved” (it sure felt that way) in the somewhat transparent design efforts of Chevrolet, I am just thrilled about getting this kind of real world feedback. These are awesome times! Thanks for all your hard work Lyle. Thanks also to all you other contributors and posters on the site that have kept the conversation stimulating.
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:41 pm)Yes, GM has said it is not being done but I think Loboc’s question is more IF it can be done (like for a super sport mode). I think WOP said the mechanical components were capable of handling the extra torque.
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:56 pm)I think the future may be putting an electric motor near or at each wheel. I noticed Michelin has a concept like this along with the next generation of some electric concept cars. The software could manage each motor ( real 4 wheel drive) and just look at all of the extra metal that comes out of the car. i.e. no transmission, differentials, drive shafts etc. Also more interior space. The extended range generator could be located almost any place with only cable going to the motors. I suspect there may be things to be worked out but to me the concept makes so much sense. GM engineers are smart and I wonder if they have this idea already in their computers. GM did note they will be using their own motor designs in the future…. :+}
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:58 pm)Good thing the Volt has a regular outlet plug as well. There are already millions of those all over the US to every fast charger suggested. The most important thing for fast adoption and away from home ease of use NOW is for businesses, governments and parking garages to put up SIGNAGE for EV use over their EXISTING outlets, and have a positive attitude. And sure, get some fast chargers in place, IN ADDITION, for extra convenience.
+3
Oct 14th, 2010 (3:58 pm)This statement, in a NUTSHELL, is the result we should all be happy about.
The rest is fine for arguments and discussions, but this 100% TRUE statement makes the Volt a premier accomplishment for GM.
Awesome.
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:07 pm)Ok. Just so I’m crystal clear on this.
Under high acceleration, M/G A (the generator) switches to using battery power and supplies torque as well as torque coming through it’s input shaft from the ICE. All the while, the main motor (M/G B) is still supplying it’s full output.
If this is the case, you could switch to mountain mode when the battery is at the lower SoC (which invokes CS mode) and do a 6-second 45-80 run (or at least faster than electric drive alone). Is that what I’m reading here? Could you do it from a standing start (0-60) or would the engine turn off at that point?
In other words, how do I get torque from all three sources at the same time to do a drag race? Pinks are on the line here.
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:13 pm)The common 20mpg vehicle compared to the Volt over 8 years time:
Both travel 12,000 miles per year for 8 years = 96,000 miles
96,000 miles / 20 mpg = 4800 gallons at $3.20 = $15,360 (Fixed cost for gasoline for a 20 mph vehicle.)
96,000 miles / 200 mpg = 480 gallons at $3.20 = $1,536 (Cost for gasoline in the Volt. This number could be 0 with frequent plug-in. Let’s go with $1,536 to cover electricity cost the driver may actually pay for. This could be less as well using opportunity recharge at the workplace, public recharge facility, or solar.)
$15,360 – $1,536 = $13,824 (More in gasoline cost to run the 20 mpg vehicle over 8 years time.)
96,000 miles / 15 gallon tank = 6400 (Refills at the Exxon station over 8 years time for the 20 mpg vehicle.)
6400 x 10 minutes = 64,000 minutes = (1060 hours at the gasoline pump to refuel the 20 mpg vehicle over 8 years time or nearly 2 full days at the pump.)
Anyone care for a Slurpy? Perhaps 2 heatlamp hotdogs for $1.39?
=D-Volt
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:16 pm)The common 20mpg vehicle compared to the Volt over 8 years time:
Both travel 12,000 miles per year for 8 years = 96,000 miles
96,000 miles / 20 mpg = 4800 gallons at $3.20 = $15,360 (Fixed cost for gasoline for a 20 mph vehicle.)
96,000 miles / 200 mpg = 480 gallons at $3.20 = $1,536 (Cost for gasoline for the Volt. This number could be 0 with frequent plug-in. Let’s go with $1,536 to cover electricity cost the driver may actually pay for. This could be less as well using opportunity recharge at the workplace, public recharge facility, or solar.)
$15,360 – $1,536 = $13,824 (More in gasoline cost to run the 20 mpg vehicle over 8 years time.)
4800 gallons used / 15 gallon tank = 320 (Refills at the Exxon station over 8 years time for the 20 mpg vehicle.)
320 x 10 minutes = 3200 minutes = (53 hours at the gasoline pump to refuel the 20 mpg vehicle over 8 years time or 2.2 days at the pump.)
Anyone care for a Slurpy? Perhaps 2 heatlamp hotdogs for $1.39?
=D-Volt
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:20 pm)Aw see….
How come you didn’t get modded?!?!?….lol
So their miles traveled in gas was 84.6 and Total OPEC juice used was 2.359, that gives 84.6/2.359=35.862MPG.
So there we have it. They got 35.862MPG in CS mode.
32 and 38 seem to be the going average where hypermiling probably will get you more.
I don’t hypermile nor will I ever. I drive to get there, but I don’t drag race either.
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:21 pm)Put it in Mountain Mode AND Sport Mode?
/prolly need better gripping tires too….
-6
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:24 pm)Please show the numbers using the federal & media standard of 15,000 miles per year.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:46 pm)The common 20mpg vehicle compared to the Volt over 8 years time:
Both travel 15,000 miles per year for 8 years = 120,000 miles
120,000 miles / 20 mpg = 6000 gallons at $3.20 = $19,200 (Fixed cost for gasoline for a 20 mpg vehicle.)
120,000 miles / plug-in = 0 gallons at $3.20 = 0 (Cost for electricity is about $1 per day = 2920 days = $2920. This number could be less using opportunity recharge at the workplace, public recharge facility, or solar.)
$19,200 – $2920 = $16,280 (More in gasoline cost to run the 20 mpg vehicle over 8 years time.)
6000 gallons used / 15 gallon tank = 400 (Refills at the Exxon station over 8 years time for the 20 mpg vehicle.)
400 x 10 minutes = 4000 minutes = (66 hours at the gasoline pump to refuel the 20 mpg vehicle over 8 years time or 2.7 days at the pump.)
Anyone care for a Slurpy? Perhaps 2 heatlamp hotdogs for $1.39?
=D-Volt
BTW: 8 years = 2920 days = 41 miles per day
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:54 pm)Being an old slide-rule man, you can’t have more significant digits in the answer than in the question.
With a slide rule you can’t have more than three significant digits period.
So it’d be around 35.9. Just sayin’.
Even then, when you go to the statistics side of the road, you can’t have this small of a sample and be meaningful. At least three tanks of gas (27 gallons in this case) are needed to give a meaningful analysis.
And unless you are using a pipette, gallons are measured +/- 1/10 of a gallon. Gas pumps ain’t all that accurate even though some show digits in the thousandths (and more).
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:56 pm)Oooo! I just got an email saying I can test drive a Volt in L.A. next Monday. I have to be there by 11:00 a.m., which will be hard for me because I will have worked until 6 am that morning. And I’m sure it will be a very short test drive. But if I have to drag myself down there, I’m going.
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:56 pm)At least two leap years makes it 2922 days. Just sayin’.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:58 pm)I read the POPSci article and some of the reader comments, which led me to refute one that actually claimed his Honda Accord V6 was cheaper , fuel-wise, than the Volt. He made several faulty assumptions and depended upon 19 cent electricity to make his case. My calculations using my 2004 Buick Regal as a comparison showed the Volt, in charge-depleting mode, costing only 1/4th what my Regal costs to drive. I assumed the national average of 11 cents for electricity, which also happens to be what I pay. Having researched solar panel arrays, which I plan to use when I build my retirement home, I have calculated the cost of their electricity at roughly 6 cents per kilowatthour over (a conservative) 20 lifespan, assuming a grid-tied system, and NO govt subsidies. Subsidies now available, just counting those from the Feds, would slice that figure nearly in half, assuming I do the install, which is simple as pie these days using micro inverters. This leads me to assume that I can achieve fuel costs for an electric vehicle that are approximately 1/16th the cost of gasoline, AT CURRENT GAS PRICES. But those gas prices will rise over the next 20 years, for sure, while the cost of the solar array is fixed at the time it is installed, and can never go up. It would be the closest thing to a free ride you will ever get. While I don’t care for the Volt design and will wait for a practical battery
before going EV, it does have the power to lead people into thinking of electric drive as possible for something other than golf carts.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (4:59 pm)How do you feel about the US giving $7500 to all of Ford and GM competitors while they keep us out of their markets ….. and what about competitors like Toyota Honda Hyundai etc who build plants in the US and pay NO US TAXES? How do you feel about this “going down”?
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:00 pm)Awesome.
In about as many years as the Volt’s development time the new generation batteries will double the current range I’m sure.
Lyle we are all very happy for your chance to experience the Volt. You have been wonderful Sir.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:02 pm)The 2.7 days at the pump is a surprising number. We just keep zombie pumping gasoline day after day. 6000 gallons used over 8 years x 2 million vehicles = 12,000,000,000 (gallons of gasoline which doesn’t need to be bought and burned)
NPNS
-2
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:05 pm)My apologies, Michael and other volt fans. My point was only that in going back to GM’s original concept of the car, that it can be used in EV mode as a primary vehicle for 75% of today’s drivers. I agree with that completely. It’s just not the right car for many and certainly we’ll hear from them.
I am thrilled that the reviews coming in are so positive. I look forward to taking delivery of mine. My only disappointment is the announcement of the clutch to mechanically connect the ICE to the wheels. I understand the efficiency of doing this, it’s better than a complicated transmission, but it defeats the point of all-electric driving.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:07 pm)lol, that brings me to my next question. How the heck did they measure the consumption of the gas used? Do they have some type of flow meter on the fuel line or somesh|t like that?
Weighed the gas first? I dunno, i’ve always been curious on how they actually measured what was “burned”.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:12 pm)lol, yeah, i’ve been tellin folks the ICE never drove the wheel myself.
Considering when we take drives on the freeway, 70 is almost ALWAYS the avg speed. Sometimes your the slow one at 70.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:12 pm)Get a copy of GM’s efficiency maps and figure out which variables you need to change in the software (that you hack) to cause the electric drive to pull from all 3 sources. (warrany voided
)
I’m still waiting for a real 0-60mph time in sport mode.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:13 pm)Population of Los Angeles (2009) = 9,848,011 = 2,000,000 vehicles in L.A. alone?
=D-Volt
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:14 pm)Yeah, and they’re all parked on the friggin FREEWAY!
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:21 pm)Population of Los Angeles (2009) = 9,848,011
Any guesses on number of 120V outlets?
NPNS
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:25 pm)Holy crap 6am. Don’t be the first person to test the Volt’s airbags.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:28 pm)I thought there were 2.3 cars/person in LA
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:32 pm)Nice!
=D-Volt
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:34 pm)While I can see a purists disappointment here in some sense but given the solution and the situation I just can’t see the rational justification for it. If it is more efficient in a car that has the No1 purpose of being efficient then it should be celebrated, even if it is a surprise and wasn’t what you were led to believe.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:35 pm)According to Helm Inc., the Volt owner’s manual will be available tomorrow, 10/15/2010, and the service manuals will be available 4/15/2011.
http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=helm&Mfg=GMC&Make=CHV&Model=VOLT&Year=&Category=&Keyword=&Module=&selected_media=
Note that it might just be a meaningless placeholder date, but … we’re not known for patience and restraint around here, eh? So have at it
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:36 pm)…or halve the price
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:36 pm)I’d guess they took the values from the Volts display itself. It probably has a flowmeter, but I’ve never taken a car apart that gives you instant MPG.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:39 pm)Well a person can only drive 1 car at a time, so you are better off taking the average miles a person drives a car (dont include riding in one) and multiply that by the driving population.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:42 pm)Do you think there is something wrong with MotorTrend’s numbers? http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1010_2011_chevrolet_volt_test/specs.html
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:45 pm)To achieve a true serial hybrid using the Volt, you would need 3 motors; one on the engine (which only generates electricity except when starting the engine), and the two in the transmission. Both traction motors together would do what the ICE and primary motor do in phase 4. If it helps to visualize: A Fuel Cell would effectively be a generator in itself, allowing just the two motors to behave as though they were in CD mode all the time.
BTW Don, I feel strongly that a fuel cell / plug-in car would need a fairly large BOER (Battery-Only Electric Range), similar to the Volt’s AER, or even higher. The reason is that a source of fuel for the fuel cell may be very hard to find, but you can always find that plug in your garage. Just as the Volt’s engine helps bridge to the electrical infrastructure of the future, someday that electrical infrastructure may bridge to hydrogen or some other exotic fuel. Viewed this way, cars like the Volt (with each ‘foot’ in a different world), may be around forever.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:48 pm)I’m still not liking the blended mpg numbers. Seems a little “shady” to me.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:50 pm)I honestly don’t know what you mean by “all-electric driving”. When the ICE is running that wouldn’t be “all-electric”. If what you’re saying is that the car wouldn’t drive the same in CD Mode as it does in CS Mode, the fact is that the ICE can’t generate the number of KW that the battery can deliver, so, in order ensure the car drives the same way in both modes, the GM engineers have use both in CS Mode. That seems to have worked because reviewers have said they can’t tell when they’re in CS Mode and when they’re in CD Mode, much less when the drive is 100% electrical and when it’s 90% electrical. Just not understanding the point.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:55 pm)
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:57 pm)Reminds me of the old joke about two economists stranded on a desert island. Up washes a box of canned food. One economist looks at the other and asks: “How do we open these?”. The other responds: “No problem, assume a can opener!” (You can eliminate many issues through assumption).
IOW I’m assuming that we just assume that if fuel cell vehicles take off there will be filling stations for them. But yes, in the real world there are practical problems. Plus you’d probably still want a decent sized battery both for regen and for acting as a buffer. So you’re double right.
Oct 14th, 2010 (5:59 pm)I’m not sure if efficiency, in terms of energy costs, is the right word. We are all billed on the basis of kW/hour. That should be the same if we are charging on 120 or 240 volt. There is a very small advantage in “power factor” but hardly worth measuring.
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:07 pm)Daffy-nitions time.
Prius: A car you buy so that you can scream:
I’m green!
Volt: A car your neighbor buys which causes you to scream:
I’m green WITH ENVY!!!
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:12 pm)Did you hear about the two economists visiting a nudist colony?
(this joke works best when spoken out loud)
The first economist asks: “Have you read Marx?”
The second economist replies, “Yes, but I think it’s these wicker chairs.”
Ba-dump-bump.
+5
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:15 pm)VOLT DRIVE REPORT
My first drive today in warm and sunny San Francisco:
“Ready?” said the blonde lady monitoring the line of people waiting their turn to drive the Volt. “Let’s go!” I said and she led me over to a shiny black model with cloth interior, opened the driver’s door and said, “Get in!” I obeyed and plopped my arse down on the comfortable seat, immediately reaching down to grab the manual adjustment lever to slide the seat all the way back for my 6’2″ frame. No power adjustment for weight conservation, I gathered.
Room was adequate for me. Looking around the interior, everything looked attractive and of good quality and workmanship – nothing hanging loose or looking cheap…. except for one thing – plasticky looking door inserts with patterns last seen on formica countertops in 1960′s era kitchens. Not for me.
The GM rep next to me was nice, but unfortunately not able to answer my first two questions which is all I asked – does the car have a ‘HOLD’ mode along with the SPORT and MTN modes; he didn’t know what that was…. and he didn’t know what an OPOC engine was when I asked about GM’s future plans with the ICE range extender.
During my lookover of the instrument panel, I had pushed the ‘POWER’ button which lit up but then forgot about it as nothing happened and I continued my lookover. The GM rep soon reminded me the car was on and ready to drive away, so I grabbed the console mounted shift lever, pulled it back to the ‘L’ position on the PRNDL readout seen on the driver’s data screen, and pressed the accelerator pedal down a bit with my right foot.
The car silently and instantly moved forward with creamy smooth response. I drove it for not quite 10 minutes around the Presidio’s winding streets, climbing and descending as well as on the flats. When lifting my right foot off the accelerator pedal, the ‘L’ position provided me with more resistance to forward movement than the ‘D’ position did, and I liked that on those streets. I’d think the ‘D’ position would be best on highways and roads where braking is not as frequent. These streets were not the best place for hammering the Volt nor was the GM rep next to me keen on it, thus I drove entirely in ‘NORMAL’ mode and not once in ‘SPORT’ mode. Nevertheless, a slightly uphill straight of around 3/10ths of a mile long presented itself at the end of the ride, and I jammed the accelerator pedal down. The car responded immediately and with smooth, linear action I got up to 50 before lifting off the pedal. No necks broken in NORMAL mode, but impressive in its smoothness and response nonetheless.
In summary, the car impresses in many ways. It drives with total familiarity and ease, feeling more substantial than its size – think Malibu or Camry. Yet its silky smoothness and freedom from engine noise put it in the company of expensive luxury cars. GM’s hit a home run with this one.
The center stack was the pearlescent white style, and was attractive.
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:29 pm)Forgot the
-12
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:31 pm)(click to show comment)
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:33 pm)You do not have direct linkages in all cases; that’s what the clutches are for. Engaging and disengaging various motor and generator components takes them in and out of the linkage. When clutch C2 is disengaged, there is no connection of the second motor generator (MGA) to the planetary gearing; and therefore, no connection to the wheels.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:34 pm)Are you BagClown? You sound like him or one if his ClownFools. Go tell Dick Weir and Ian Clifford they are the Liars!
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:46 pm)I’ve been studying the Volt for 3 years too, and I’m not sure what you mean by a “Hold Mode”. Maybe its just terminology getting confused. What do you want Hold Mode to do?
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:51 pm)I think this was a possible mode we discussed at about the same time as the phrase “mountain mode” was first kicked around: Basically, you’d engage “hold” mode in order to force the Volt to immediately enter CS-mode (reserving whatever battery charge is remaining for later). For example, if you were going to make a long highway trip to a residential community, you might prefer to save the electricity for the slower-speed, stop-and-go traffic where it’s most efficient. I think the closest thing we got to this was Mountain Mode, which reserves something like 10 miles’ worth of usable battery-only range. Theoretically, you could switch out of mountain mode later, and get the 10 mile charge reserve back.
Oct 14th, 2010 (6:59 pm)Ok. That is exactly what Mountain Mode does. It starts the Generator to add additional reserve to the battery, normally for steep hill climbing of long grades over 5%, but in your case I think you could use it the same for your purpose: Go into CS Mode early when traffic is moving normally and save your all-electric mode for the stop and go traffic jam.
I think you would have to try that trip both ways to see which would really be more efficient.
+6
Oct 14th, 2010 (7:01 pm)I DROVE THE VOLT TODAY!
Here’s what I thought about it.
Chevrolet had two courses setup. One was in a small section of parking lot with a course laid out in the famous orange cones. I drove that course second, so there isn’t much to tell about it (except that electric driving is AWESOME!). The second course was on the roads that encircle the Presido here in San Francisco. I arrived early, signed in, and was told I could step inside the building across from check-in and get something to eat and drink. So I did.
After that, it was time to drive! I drove a Cyber Gray Metallic Volt with the Neutral Leather/Dark Accents interior. My friend sat in the back seat behind me, but didn’t want to drive (he’s not a “car guy” at all), but they were letting anyone that wanted to drive the car take it for a spin. The car only had 2,100 miles on it. My first impression when I sat in the driver’s seat was how secure I felt. Just like the first time I sat in the driver’s seat of a Corvette; the feeling that the car is almost “hugging” you, yet I had plenty of room (I’m a six foot tall 190 pound guy), and my friend directly behind me said he had enough leg room also. Tom from GM sat shotgun, and let me know a few things about the car, and gave directions as I drove.
The car was running in CS (charge sustaining) mode, but the engine always turned off at stop signs, and only turned on either several seconds after we started moving again, or when I had to go up a rather steep hill. The course was full of twists and turns, so I wasn’t able to get the speed up too much, maybe to about 40 MPH, but only once. Let me tell you, the Volt is amazingly quiet! Even when the engine generator starts, to me it sounded like a small, low speed fan had started. That’s it. No shake, no vibration, and very little sound was heard from the driver’s seat. Accelerating under full electric power (before the generator turned on) was fantastically smooth and quiet, as to be expected, and the electric motor sound was very muted. I was able to test both Sport Mode and the L setting on the gear shift, which both worked as advertised. I can very easily see myself using the L mode in just normal driving, as well as when descending hills. Tom talked about several aspects of the car while I was driving, but I was so excited to actually be not only seeing the car in person for the first time, but DRIVING IT, I hardly remember what he said! Could’ve used a video camera, I guess.
The one thing I do remember was commenting on the slow creep it does when you let off the brake, just like a normal automatic transmission car. Tom told me that was important for them to include, and the engineers worked on that until it was perfect. I agreed that it was.
Before I knew it, the drive was over. I asked if he’d sign my Volt poster, and he said sure. So I laid it on the hood of the car and he signed it. In all, there were three or four people there taking photos, and I think they all took pictures of me getting my Volt poster signed. Ended up getting five signatures in total! Will post a picture of the signed poster below:
Everyone was very friendly, but the Volt team was pretty busy, so I never did get around to asking those questions. Hope I don’t disappoint you guys too much (this is why I leave the reporting and blogging to the experts)!
My final thought is this: The Chevrolet Volt is finally a REAL car that lets you choose how you want to power it. Plug it in if you don’t want to go to the gas station (which I had to do for my current car after the test drive – 14.2 gallons at $3.39 for premium!), or if you don’t want to or can’t plug it in, go pump some gas. The choice is yours.
One final note, one GM employee there was interested that I not only had a Volt poster, but also bought the “VOLT FAN” license plate for my Volt I have on order. He gave me his card and told me to contact him when I’m going to pick up my Volt from the dealer. Sounds like they might want to document how the process goes! Can’t wait!
Oh, and they also wanted to know how I found out about the Volt and the test drive today. I told them GM-Volt.com! Thanks Dr. Dennis!
Oct 14th, 2010 (7:12 pm)It’s a mode as Jackson said, and to my knowledge was initially developed specifically for the Ampera, for there are cities in Europe which have zones where ICE vehicles are not allowed but electric powered vehicles are permitted. One of the video presentations made early this week mentioned the Hold mode as one of the available modes, but didn’t specify USA availability or not. I wanted this guy to clarify that for me.
Oct 14th, 2010 (7:18 pm)Be careful how you soon to be Volt owners brag to your neighbors, you might run into one of these guys…
BTW I have nothing to do with Nissan or Hyundai or Toyota and am not even particularly fond of either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPVw4nfESz0&feature=related
Oct 14th, 2010 (7:35 pm)I’m not sure where you came up with CED? There are two modes when it comes to the use of the battery; either used as in CD (Charge Depletion) mode; or not used as in CS (Charge Sustaining) mode. As far as the EVT is concerned, when using the battery only, with the ICE off, you have different modes. There is a serial only electric mode where the battery powers the primary motor/generator (MGB), and an a two motor split operating mode, which is also serial, as well as other modes mentioned in the patent.
In all electric mode (CD), the EVT blends the torque for the primary motor, the larger of the two motors that always is linked to the wheels and the other motor. However, in CS mode when the ICE comes on because the battery pack has reached the SOC consumer depleted level, the second motor/generato now operates as a generator to supply electricity to the primary traction motor. Most of its torque is expended in driving the generator, leaving little to contribute through the split mode to the EVT, so in this case the torque from the ICE is needed. The difference between the two situations is which clutches are engaged. In CD mode, the clutch between the ICE and smaller motor/generator is not engaged, while the clutch from the smaller motor/generator is engaged connecting it to the ring gear. Thus split mode where the output of the larger motor and the smaller motor are combined: that allows both motors to operate at lower rpm. In CS mode the ICE is engaged to the small motor/generator; it now acts as a generator and is not outputting to the ring gear since the other clutch is disengaged.
Another way of looking at the >6500 rpm problem, is to realize that in both modes the primary motor has that problem which I believe is what you realized. In both CD and CS modes the primary motor is assisted; in the first case, it is an electric motor doing the assisting; in the second case, the only motor available to assist is the ICE which is already on. The magic is in the EVT, shuffling between its various modes.
I don’t blame you for being confused. The patent for this EVT is not easy reading. I have read it over and over but still need to re-read it with respect to some of the EVT’s other aspects. I hoped it help you get beyond confusion. It is very complex and anyone who says that it can’t be used with other motors or fuel cells is wrong. The EVT was incorporated to solve the problem with the AC motor as high RPM. When and if GM finds or engineers a new motor that doesn’t have this problem, the EVT is an elegant although very complex solution. Toyota has long been lauded for its HSD, E-CVT (Electronically-controlled Continuously Variable Transmission). It’s what made the Prius, the best hybrid out there, ’til now. It will be interesting to see what Toyota does to modify its HSD design; note, there have improved on the original design.
IMHO, it will be hard to beat out GM’s EVT, but then only the future will tell. This EVT is very flexible, allowing many different configurations to solve various transmission problems. The discussion on this blog has only touched a small part of the patented EVT.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
P.S. To anyone other than Blind Guy, don’t bother to read this if I got to wordy. I don’t need to hear about it and will just ignore you.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:00 pm)May I add that by activating Mountain Mode, the smaller motor generator is now the main supplier of electricity to the traction motor, and thereby conserving, not using, battery pack energy except when needed like passing.
CorvetteGuy, correct me if things have changed but I thought GM has said that the generator current goes to operating the traction motor, not charging the battery. If this has changed please let me know. Seems that sending the generated current to the battery would be circuitous resulting in unneeded losses.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:09 pm)Why only *half* the neighborhood? (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:09 pm)If what LRGVProVolt said about mountain mode, that the generator only goes to operating the traction motor, is correct, it sounds to me like it would be useful for increasing efficiency on long highway cruises as well. Saving the EV range for the last 40 or so miles of the trip.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:17 pm)Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh! YOU GOT -43! It must mean that what you are saying isn’t worth reading. To Bad!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:19 pm)
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:21 pm)Hi CG.. I received your email today, thanks.
Hold Mode is the 3rd setting beyond Econo Mode.
1> Econo
2> Sport
3> Mountain
4> Hold
In a recent video a GM rep mentions that in places like England there are driving zones for EV only. The reason “hold mode” was added to the Volt (and Ampera) is that at any given time, even with a full charge, hold mode will reserve your battery range. You could drive 80 miles from the country to the city and engage econo mode at the start of the EV zone. And continue 40 miles (or more) under pure battery power. A pleasant surprise from the engineering/software team.
=D-Volt
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:22 pm)Or both? Maybe 5 years….
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:32 pm)That’s what “hold mode” is for.
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:35 pm)I tried replying to ecoturbo’s comment on this but the post got swallowed up in the abyss. No need repeating what I said; you got it all! Hit the nail square on the head.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:38 pm)Hey, Tag. Did you bump my post into the abyss?
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:40 pm)Great news, I didn’t know they had decided to let Americans have Hold Mode.
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:44 pm)Busted, yet again (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:56 pm)to Jim I and LRGVProVolt:
“Charging over night, every night sounds like the best policy to prolong its life. I have not seen anything published by GM on what is the best recharging policy. This would be a good question for Lyle or CorvetteGuy to answer.”
I can tell you I specifically asked the GM folk last March when I took my test drive in NYC about recharging and they specifically answered me that you should feel free to “top off” at any time, regardless of charge remaining–that there would be no extra degradation to the battery. As well, there is no need to fully deplete.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (8:57 pm)Hey, how about the Volt being the fastest auto in reverse! The Tesla would be faster but its rear view is so poor, I know no one would dare do it. I suspect that the reverse gear is the same as drive, you could probably hit 85 MPH in reverse with the Volt.
Raymond
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:05 pm)This was discussed here early on. We were told at the time that speed in reverse would be electronically limited to prevent the inevitable accidents which high-speed reversing would cause.
Yes, I realize you were kidding. Not everyone reading has a sense of humor (just click on some of the > -10 troll comments if you don’t believe me).
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:07 pm)Good point! I’ll bet the accessory rear-view camera would really help with that. Then again, someone would *have* to bring up whether the ICE is engaged above -70mph! (Argh).
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:08 pm)It shows GM is staying on top of what expectant buyers wold like to see in the Volt.
Stay Cool, ECO_TURBO. The next GEN Volt may have that turbo engine you’re wishing for.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:10 pm)We could program one of those Japanese robots to drive in reverse. That should make the Prius guys happy.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:11 pm)I wonder why GM would “withhold” a feature, that is to be available elsewhere? What’s to gain?
Be well,
Tagamet
-1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:12 pm)I guess you are not following the Leaf news. Leaf gave a range of 42 to 138 a few months back. It was even featured on this site.
Nissan also gives a long disclaimer explaining various scenarios.
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index#/leaf-electric-car/range-disclaimer/index
They even sent a survey asking whether everyone has seen these disclaimers !
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:14 pm)Or we could use the Google driver-less setup to do it. Having driven the Volt though, I don’t want no Steeenkin robots driving my Volt!
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:14 pm)Hi, fellow Buick Regal owner! My Regal is a 1995 model LS. It presently has 135,000 miles because I drive an average of 16 miles per weekday, and sometimes an extra 50 miles on a long trip on weekends. I plan to exchange my Regal for the Volt, since my second auto is a 2009 Chevy Equinox. But if GM brings out a Voltec-powered Equinox in the next five years, I will buy that, too. I am extracting 21 MPG by driving economically, and gas here is about $.67 per liter (close to $2.53 per gallon) , so I am paying about $.12 per mile. How is your Regal doing?
Raymond
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:16 pm)Could be the other half are “Government Motors” haters, or Prius trolls, think the Volt is strictly an exercise for greenies; or, more likely, don’t really care.
/sense of humor depleted … must … rest …..
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:16 pm)I got one of these forms, but claimed that I didn’t (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:18 pm)#240 Tagamet said:
I wonder why GM would “withhold” a feature, that is to be available elsewhere? What’s to gain?
I always assumed it was an EPA edict or something.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:18 pm)I somehow managed to miss a dozen or so comments which explained that “Hold” is apparently available in the US after all (then changed my comment using the Edit feature to reply to a completely different comment).
Did I mention I was getting tired?
‘See’ you all tomorrow, hopefully.
PS: Hey, wasn’t I the one who originally requested a “hold” feature? Hard to remember that far back.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:19 pm)I’m confident that even those soul-less individuals will succumb to the Volt’s charms.
Be well,
Tagamet
/Ran cars through the auction today in 40 degrees and driving rain. I need rest too.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:21 pm)“I’m from the government. I’m here to help….”
I *think * Jackson just posted that the Hold feature is, in fact available in the USA. Cool.
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:22 pm)Anyone try the Volt Bose system…how’s the bass?
http://garfwod.250free.com/Volt_SClub7_NeverHadADreamComeTrue.mp3
NBNS
No Bose No Sale
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:23 pm)God willing! Sleep well.
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:26 pm)Yah! Your right.
Like earlier, I posted on Statik’s blog, in respond to his suggestion that GM could have easily programmed the Volt to give us 40 AER not matter what the conditions. I commented that the little green leaf ball might very well be intended to realy teach American driver to slow down, to lose the heavy foot, and learn how to use regenerative braking to maximize AER.
But that might mean that the Volt would eventually be programmed to drive effectively and take all the fun out of it.
Be Well!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:28 pm)Good evening all, hope everyone is well.
With all the discussion on how M/G A and M/G B interact through the planetary gear set to drive the wheels, I’m surprised no one has mention the other brilliant aspect to this design…which is during regenerative braking, the planetary gear also allows M/G A and M/G B to be simultaneously used as generators to send current back into the battery in both CS and CD mode. (i.e., you capture more energy, thus the Volt is more efficient during regenerative braking also with this design.)
I for one think that’s pretty cool too.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:28 pm)EVNow posted this over at Statik’s site. Interesting info on the EPA ratings for the Volt (not as good as Lyle’s first hand stuff but hey, what is?):
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101014/AUTO01/10140449/1361/SEC-vote-on-Rattner-corruption-probe-delayed/GM-exec-predicts-60-000-Volt-models-built-in-’12
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:29 pm)Yeah. Good of you to point that out.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:33 pm)Nope, not in bed yet.
I don’t know about all this A and B stuff (besides, I can hardly hold my eyes open).
My understanding is that only the small motor (“generator”) is used for regenerative braking. It may be that it’s position in the planetary gearset gives it a higher effective ratio (a smaller motor/generator turning faster than the large one might be more efficient), but I can’t wrap my head around it right now.
I know they told me in NYC that there was a smaller motor optimized for regenerative braking. Given what we now know, the generator produces electricity in CS-mode, and also during regenerative braking; so, it may be that the little motor has actually been optimized to perform better as a generator.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:36 pm)At the NYC drive, the radio had already been stolen. (Just kidding!) Seriously, no one even *talked* about the radio or speakers. We were concentrating on the drive.
Be well,
Tagamet
-1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:36 pm)I’m afraid that, as an engineer, I have to disagree with previous remarks that characterized the Volt’s power mechanism as “great design.” What it’s doing is trying to achieve mileage goals using what’s available in a convoluted fashion. Good design means that it is elegant, which in turn means that the design is simply and reliable, with few parts involved, something that this design certainly does not have. While one of the major advantages of an EV is its simplicity, reliability
and efficiency, when you yoke it to an ICE, you lose all that. In fact, you’ve created a design far more complicated than even the most overengineered ICE.
Well, at last we have a clear idea of electricity usage, what with the test drives providing a good idea of battery range, coupled with GM’s claim yesterday that 10kw hours of grid power would be required to provide the car with slightly over 8kw hours from the battery pack. That 20% penalty is exactly in line with lead acid deep cycle batteries. Expect, therefore, to average roughly 4 miles per kw hour, or, in my case, $1.10 to go 40 miles, or about 2.7 cents per mile.
At current gas prices, my Buick Regal costs 12.5 cents per mile, more than 4 times as much.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:38 pm)NY Times article where Pam Fletcher, head engineer on the Volt, says the MPG will be mid to high 30s. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/business/energy-environment/15auto.html
(I think RB may have posted this)
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:38 pm)Just think of the sound system you could build with 300VDC for the output stage.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:41 pm)Seems elegant to me. It’s not simple per se but it is simple given all the complexity it has to deal with. As for reliability, has a planetary gear set ever failed on a Prius?
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:42 pm)# 258 Kent,
I’ll bet a 5 speed stick has more parts then the Volt transmission.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:44 pm)Get some sleep! You’re babbling (just a bit). Or review the video if the two good ol boys on stools. They explained the motor/generator stuff very well.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:45 pm)I think the news here is production. Up to 15,000 in 2011 and up to 60,000 in 2012.
I’ve been telling y’all that GM knows how to build cars and knows how to ramp production! I think that there won’t be anybody waiting long to receive their car after the initial wave.
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:45 pm)They are both motor/generators. Yes A is optimized as a generator, and B as an electric propulsion motor, but both can (and are) used in either role when conditions warrant. Smart design huh?
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:47 pm)Everyone is straining to hear the barely perceptible rumble of the generator and totally neglecting the reason for the minimal sound. It’s so the cabin will be whisper quiet. We have a certified quiet cabin. Now let’s play some tunes.
http://garfwod.250free.com/Volt_BryanAdams_ItsOnlyLove.mp3
=D-Volt
-3
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:49 pm)Yea and if GM would have made the electric motor with more HP, like 30 more horses then there would have been no need for a mechanical assist from the ICE and could have a less complicated tranny and software tuning, GM why did you do this?
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:49 pm)And one-fourth the fun of the Volt.
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:54 pm)God save us from simple elegance!!! The engineer’s obsession with this arcane ideal often has much more to do with satisfying the engineer than with solving the problem(s) (not always, of course). Many, many “simply elegant” ideas have come to grief on issues of practical necessity. Many more require much more complexity in operational considerations, and ancillary components than even a slightly more complex approach.
Consider the internal complexity of such ‘simple to use’ devices as electronic cameras, iThis and iThat, ad nauseum. The genius comes in making a device both easy to use and as simple as possible.
End usability (and capability) have a beauty and elegance which will appeal to many more people than the injured sensibilities of a few engineers.
JMHO.
… and certainly fewer parts than a typical automatic transmission (look back for a pic submitted by nasaman on this theme).
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:56 pm)Nope, but the Power On and Power Off tones sounded nice over the Bose speakers. I could hear the bass in just those!
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:57 pm)I totally agree with the first two sentences, but the conclusion requires a “Stay tuned”.
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (9:59 pm)My wife is still up doing things on the web, and I have to stay up and help her spell
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:01 pm)It reminds me of a favorite quote:
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” (I think it was Steven Hawkins).
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:03 pm)You should invest in Firefox (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:03 pm)You are right, and I think this is an important point.
The EVT (electrically variable transmission) has two motors – the 111 kW main, traction motor (always connected to the sun gear), and the 55 kW assist motor, which can clutch to the ring gear to assist the traction motor at high speeds (about 70 to 101 mph).
It is just the internal combustion engine which would be swapped out for a fuel cell or Mr. Fusion electrical power source in another version of the Volt. The two motor/generators are an integral part of the EVT. I was confused on this point at first – I thought the entire genset (ICE plus generator motor, the 55 kW one) would be swapped out for another power source.
GM has basically compromised (“optimized”) on this first generation Volt to save some weight/cost – they have made use of the second motor of the EVT to do double duty as the generator in the genset. As a consequence, they need to clutch the 55 kW MG both to the ICE and to the ring gear when the traction motor needs its assist in CS mode at high speeds (70 to 101 mph). Yes, if the Volt had a third MG, dedicated to just the genset, then the EVT would operate very similarly in both CD and CS modes, and there would be no need to ever clutch the ICE to the ring gear through the motor.
(The whole point of this assist motor in the EVT is just to keep the traction motor from suffering efficiency losses at high RPM’s – there is no “power loss” at high speeds, as some comments have suggested – the traction motor could deliver all the needed power, alone, to the wheels even at 101 mph, but at a cost of efficiency. The conversion of electrical power to mechanical power would suffer increasing losses at very high RPM’s, so EV range would go down, CS mpg would go down)
A final thought – since the assist motor in this generation EVT was sized to also be a generator for the genset (they needed a 55 kW power source for “average power”), a future Volt might get away with a smaller assist motor in the EVT – perhaps 30 kW is sufficient for driving the ring gear while the traction motor drives the sun gear in 70 to 101 mph speeds. Sizing this assist motor just for EVT duty will probably yield a smaller kW size.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:04 pm)Well, I got to say it. Lyle even pulled through for the…
Red Volt Appreciation League
Thanks
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:06 pm)I think you meant Stephen Hawking (but the quote is from Arthur C. Clarke).
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:07 pm)An interesting idea, but unlikely on GEN 2. The 1.4L ICE is small and economical. Tuned for maximum performance in the Volt application. True, the 1.4L doesn’t need to assist at all. GM could have simply done what you suggest and settle for a pretty nice car with totally linear acceleration and a fairly good MPG at speeds over 70mph.
The reason GM added the assist feature is to bring into play the efficiency gain of using all available resources. This being the ability for the Volt to deliver extra forward power at high speeds if called upon to deliver it. And the ability for the Volt to achieve very good MPG through the entire 0-100mph range. Not just the 0-69mph range. Didn’t expect this level of refinement from the GEN 1, but it appears GM has delivered just that.
BTW: Drivers who wish to feather foot or hyper mile will rarely, if ever, use the linkage feature. An added bonus is that in CS mode normal 0-20mph acceleration is provided under battery power alone.
=D-Volt
+2
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:08 pm)Lyle wrote:
“Of particular note, no change in sound or behavior could be detected when passing 70 mph in charge-sustaining mode, the controversial state where the ICE always participates in turning the driveshaft. I repeated this trial numerous times to be sure.”
See:
http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht
This web page includes an interesting audio link to a conversation with GM’s Andrew Farrah. Farrah says that reporting (by Motor Trend) of some magic cutoff speed of 70 mph (when the Volt determines whether or not to use the engine to partially drive the wheels) is incorrect. He says that the engine is used to partially drive the wheels when the car calculates that it will be a more efficient use of the engine’s power. There is no hard cutoff point.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:09 pm)I disagree. The Volt transaxle has 1 P/G and 3 clutches? If your Regal is an auto, how many speeds does it have and how many clutches? Both the Volt and your Regal have an ICE, so that’s a wash. Yes, the Volt has 2 electric motor/generators. but how reliable are electric motors? Bottomline, which is more complicated, the transmission in your Regal, or the ECT in the Volt?
Also, the Volt uses 9.6 KWh of electricity not 8 KWh. So for that 10 KWhs your are getting 9.6 KWh useable energy from what I’ve read. Why to you think the recharge efficiency would be any worse on the Volt than any other EV for that matter?
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:09 pm)Hey, I’ve got it on my computer … besides, firefox doesn’t answer when you shout out “Hey, how do you spell Caribbean?”
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:12 pm)LOL, I knew you’d reply to that. Tom-a-to/tom-ah-to… I thought that I had the Steven part wrong, but had read it attributed to both he and Clarke. Still a cool thought.
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:13 pm)#275 Truman said:
a future Volt might get away with a smaller assist motor in the EVT – perhaps 30 kW is sufficient for driving the ring
Schucks, I was hoping for another 111kw motor when they went to fuel cells, or whatever.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:17 pm)Ford’s Gioia’ comment “”This is marathon of 50 years to change the fuel source diversity. This is not going to happen overnight,”
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101014/AUTO01/10140449/1361/SEC-vote-on-Rattner-corruption-probe-delayed/GM-exec-predicts-60-000-Volt-models-built-in-%E2%80%9912
worries me. I viewed this video about Clean fusion Energy This Decade: about 10 minutes into the presentation, Ed Mosses, Principle Associate Director of National Ignition Facility, explains how we must change from carbon fuels to electricity within a very short time. the Year 2030 is a crucial date. At about 00:14:00 into the video he charts our use of types of fossil fuels. Well at any rate, view the video. I had to reload several times to see the whole video.
More people need to realize how important adoption of EV technology will be in short order as it fit within this time line. View the video and tell me what you think.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:17 pm)Hawking was quoting Clarke; who said it, quite probably, before Stephen was born.
BTW; Stephen Hawkins was Jim Hawkins’ brother in “Treasure Island.”
PS: My wife is done spellin’ now …
/night.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:17 pm)Yes it does! Teach her to “right-click”, so she just has to get close.
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:22 pm)Jackson, just come here to your favorite website and go to post and type in Carribean ahd watch it get redlined. Right click over the word to get a pop-up with suggested spellings.
Be Well!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:24 pm)Kinda hard to gauge Hawking’s age. I *did* know Clarke is/was an old fart. Is he still warmer than room temperature? (I think that we’re officially now OT).
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:27 pm)My other “Jackson” account just dropped off the face of the Earth. I’ve just sent two replies into the ether.
Now I really am signing off …
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:33 pm)Sheesh, you’re running out of presidents.
Night, I’m heading out too. “See” you tomorrow.
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:37 pm)That sounds cool, but I did not see that as an option on my test drive, and I did 3 laps… One in each mode. So, the Ampera has the Volt beat at it’s own game?!
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:44 pm)I just happened to notice Motor Trend’s Test Data shows the acceleration results in two ways:
EV mode; CS(ER) mode. Here are the numbers again for convenience:*
0-30: 3.0; 3.2 sec (negligible measurement/repeatability error)
0-40: 4.5; 4.6 sec ….” ” ” ”
0-50: 6.4; 6.4 sec ….” ” ” ”
0-60: 8.8; 8.7 sec ….” ” ” ”
0-70: 11.9; 11.3 sec CS mode = 0.6 sec faster
0-80: 16.0; 14.5 sec CS mode = 1.5 sec faster
0-90: 21.3; 18.3 sec CS mode = 3.0 sec faster
0-100: 29.8; 23.0 sec CS mode = 6.8 sec faster
Passing, 45-65 mph: 4.9; 4.5sec CS mode = 0.4 sec faster
Quarter mile: 16.9sec @81.9 mph; 16.7sec @86.0 mph CS mode = 0.2 sec & 4.1 mph faster
Note there’s really no difference in acceleration between the CD & CS modes below 70 mph. However, when Clutch 3 in the EVT engages, the performance advantage after 70 mph is VERY apparent. This data quantifies the significant high-speed acceleration improvement of the design —and it comes at no added cost in complexity! Brilliant!!!
/*From http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1010_2011_chevrolet_volt_test/specs.html
//Actually, MT said on page 1, “When the engine’s running, the power it generates covers this power sag, widening the performance gap between engine on and off modes to 0.6 second at 70 mph (11.3 versus 11.9) and to 6.8 seconds by 100 mph.” Somehow I missed this comment.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:47 pm)Well, it is still true that you can learn something new every day. I have not read a thing about ‘Hold Mode’ for Ampera. And I just read a review on the Ampera by those BBC guys from Top Gear. Or maybe I just missed it. Sorry guys.
Oct 14th, 2010 (10:57 pm)#221 LRGVProVolt : Explanation of EVT.
CED was a typing error, it sounds the same as CD on my computer. Your explanation of the placement of the 2 clutchs helped me picture it better. It would be cool if Volt Dealers could have cut open models of this EVT to exhibit to customers. Thx.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:02 pm)This just in from the Twitter-verse, 50 miles of EV range will be no problem if you drive like Chelsea Sexton.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:11 pm)Forgot that Volt requires premium.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:18 pm)I would love to see the look on the faces of the auto engineers that don’t work for GM that are allowed to take a Volt out for a drive.
Moon shot.
The Volt has landed in the driveway of tranquility.
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:19 pm)Actually, MT said on Page 1: “After 10 seconds of full-power acceleration (about 64 mph), the controller decreases the power output slightly to preserve the battery. When the engine’s running, the power it generates covers this power sag, widening the performance gap between engine on and off modes…”
They could have delivered the exact same “performance” in CD mode, but at the cost of faster battery depletion. So, knowing that consumers would eagerly be waiting for EV range data once the Volt was retail ready, they chose to conserve energy when running off the battery (improving all electric range), and splurge a little for “performance” when they were burning gasoline.
Just by programming the controller !
Brilliant !!!
p.s. I think you mean “when clutch C3 and C2 engages”
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:39 pm)This is what I want to know too! It certainly wouldn’t have to add net torque but if it does for efficiency sake, why not at slower speeds in CS mode as well. I’m sticking with it does not add intentional torque to the mix.
Edit-this has already been hashed out, I’m late to the party tonight.
+1
Oct 14th, 2010 (11:54 pm)Please don’t recycle my old lines…they’re copy-write protected
I think Mr. Fusion will arrive before fuel cells are economical on a mass scale.
Thanks for the write-up Lyle keep ‘em coming.
Oct 15th, 2010 (12:05 am)As a full EV user, that sounds undesirable, but I suppose GM is trying to make the transition to electric is seamless as possible for Joe Full Gasser Sixpack and to have the Volt be simultaneously as many things possible to the most amount of folks. Imagine a vehicle that mostly satisfies the wildly divergent preferences of the posters on this site. Fortunately, with electric drive and electronics, a few lines of code easily accomplishes that. That also means that all driver/media/lab tests may give misleading results of ultimate capability depending on how the Volt’s been programmed.
I suppose GM could put in a stick shifter in a Volt, too, simply through programming, complete with pregnant pauses, lugging, grinding and repeating groaning noises and wildy inconsistent power and torque output. Don’t forget emulations of backfires and stalls or the rural folk’ll never buy one?
Oct 15th, 2010 (12:06 am)Don’t be so sure about that. There’s more than one way to skin out a hydrogen molecule, the fuel of a fuel cell. Electrolysis is the fodder of the ignorant. We’re at the doorstep of finding equitable substitutes for petroleum. Hydrogen fuel is one worth using for transportation as a pretty viable accompaniment with battery tech. Separating the wheat from the chaff is the hard part right now, but worth trying.
+1
Oct 15th, 2010 (12:21 am)Good point. The Volt requires premium fuel if you choose to drive outside of the initial 40 miles of battery range. Here’s an example of a driving pattern that is typical of many drivers.
Monday> Drive to work and back = 30 miles.
Tuesday>Drive to work and back = 30 miles. Shower (recharge the Volt for an hour) and drive to the Little League field for a game, 15 miles round trip.
Wednesday>Drive to work and back = 30 miles. Add a drive to the beach and to a restaurant, 20 miles round trip.
Thursday>Drive to work and back = 30 miles.
Friday>Drive to work and back = 30 miles. Run three errands downtown, 20 miles.
Saturday>Attend a sports event, 50 miles round trip.
Sunday>A day at the beach, 20 miles.
totals:
Monday> 30
Tuesday> 45
Wednesday>50
Thursday>30
Friday>50
Saturday>50
Sunday>20
275 miles for the week total. 52 weeks x 275 miles = 14,300 miles per year (a realistic number)
The Volt provides about 40 miles per charge in 8 hours time at the cost of $1. Three days per week we run over this initial home garage charge. Total for the week is 30 miles on premium gasoline. If your workplace offers on-site recharging then your overrun of miles on premium fuel per week drops to 10. If the sports event offers recharging then your total overrun per week on premium fuel drops to 0 miles.
Looking at this more closely we may realize a net gain. The workplace recharge recovers the 150 miles driven in 30 hours time. So home garage recharge time is reduced.
Look at he same week of driving done with a gasoline car at 30 mpg (not too bad by today’s standard). Total use of regular fuel is 275 miles / 30 mpg = 9.1 gallons = 473 gallons per year.
473 gallons per year x $3.20 per gallon = $1513 more gasoline cost per year driving an Accord (or similar)
If this week of driving was done with a gasoline car at 45 mpg (not too bad by today’s hybrid standard). Then the total use of regular fuel is 275 miles / 45 mpg = 6.1 gallons = 317 gallons per year.
317 x $3.20 per gallon = $1014 more fuel cost per year driving an Fusion hybrid (or similar). Just $1000 per year spent on regular gasoline is great by 2009 standards.
We can do much better with the Volt. Total premium use per year can be as low as one gallon. Just enough to periodically lubricate the generator.
=D-Volt
Oct 15th, 2010 (12:24 am)How about that. The engine does add torque at times in CS mode. Thanks for the post Nasaman!
Oct 15th, 2010 (12:31 am)That is an awesome link Timothy. I know this is only something like 200 comments later but it took a while to get back to this blog. That motor trend writer was hilarious. He was so out there that the comments after his blog were all positive! No Volt hater talk like a lot of the other non-GM-Volt sites that have Volt test drive stories.
Thanks again. I knew somebody in this blog would know if the 100 mph barrier had been broken yet and it has! … yet no comment on strange noises … voices from another dimension breaking through … Houdini coming back from the dead … cats and dogs making love and other assorted random chaos.
Oct 15th, 2010 (2:20 am)if you go back and read my comment you will see that in it i make the statement: “the ICE drives the wheels in CS mode”. i presumed that the reader (who has an understanding of the volt drive system) would figure out that the assist in CD mode comes from the generator.
Oct 15th, 2010 (4:25 am)I interpret this graph so that ICE or motor/generator are crucial for torque. I am not designer of electric power trains, but for me was surprise involvement of second motor or ICE for traction. Smart design but difficult to modify.
Oct 15th, 2010 (6:19 am)Not if your perfectly happy with the blue line.
Oct 15th, 2010 (6:25 am)Hydrogen is a lonely molecule. I wish we worried more about implelenting the tech we already instead converting what normally would be development dollars for applicable tech into research dollars for a maybe someday tech. Let the research institutions do the research and encourage the development institutions develop solutions that can actually be implemented today.
Oct 15th, 2010 (8:33 am)Koz,
Vice versa. I am not happy with blue line. And I see it as major limitation for making hybrid serial.
Oct 15th, 2010 (9:12 am)Quote: “We ran into stop signs, traffic lights, construction zones and highway entrances and exits”
I guess you guys can’t keep the car on the road. LOL
Oct 15th, 2010 (9:13 am)Spoken like a true pragmatist. Sigh!
The dreamers of today are the drivers of tomorrow.
I can see that you aren’t going to dig a little deeper into fuel cell tech and hydrogen fuel above fusion.
Too bad.
Oct 15th, 2010 (9:46 am)If you don’t like the blue line, just change the controller to draw more electrical power at high speeds, and you can match the dotted red line. You will get less all electric range, though.
To calculate a motor’s efficiency, the mechanical output power is divided by the electrical input power:
where η is energy conversion efficiency, Pe is electrical input power, and Pm is mechanical output power.
Even if the traction motor and generator motor get less efficient at higher speeds, you can just draw more Pe to get the desired Pm – if that dotted red graph is so important, you can sacrifice range to get it.
Alternatively, you could reprogram the Volt to make the dotted red line match the blue line, to save more gasoline.
Oct 15th, 2010 (10:07 am)It’s all about the batteries. Better batteries will allow stronger ‘serial hybrid’ performance in CS-mode, too.
-2
Oct 15th, 2010 (11:28 am)Great, you guys finally figured out why Series-Parallel hybrid is superior to the pure Series hybrid.
I wouldn’t say it added no complexity. The clutches are the additional complexity. Series-Parallel hybrids without any clutch had been in production since 1997.
Oct 15th, 2010 (12:52 pm)True and if you change the motor to a larger one and/or one with better thermal properties you can match the red line or one higher without the efficiency issue. Of course, for gen1 this was probably not a reasonably priced option. Tesla has an excellent blog entry about their redesign of the Roadster controller and motor for better operation (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/engineering-update-powertrain-15).
Oct 15th, 2010 (1:00 pm)Oh, I believe in research in a big way but I also believe in doing things. We’ve been sitting on our duffs for 30 years talking the talk. Research is great and needed but so is advancement and, IMO, research in this area has mostly been a big fat red herring to impede actual tangible advancement away from our dependency on oil. I am a dreamer, always have been to some degree, but my feet are on the ground. I was well aware of what was happening with hydrogen and CARB and that whole fiasco.
Oct 15th, 2010 (6:10 pm)I don’t know if that was in sport mode. It just says EV mode or Combination mode.
Oct 15th, 2010 (7:33 pm)I’d love to see a graph of the torque curve from 0 to 3,000 rpm over a linear acceleration 5 minute time period of a Volt against say, a Ferrarri Testarosa full gasser in first gear. In top gear, the Ferarri’s would be a flat line at 0 torque, of course.
How the Volt and the Prius work is simple: both uses the best of what electric it has and the best of what ICE it has, given power pack size and plug in ability. The Volt has more electric oomph, a larger power pack and plug in capability, enough that it can act as a full EV for a certain range until it invokes its range extender.