Oct 06

GM Announces Chevrolet Volt 240V Charger Pricing and Installation Service Provider

 


[ad#post_ad]GM has announced a partnership with Michigan-based  SPX Service Solutions to sell and install the 240-v Voltec home charging station made for the Chevrolet Volt.

GM has positioned the price of the charging unit to be the “most affordable” on the market.

It will cost $490 before installation.

Installation costs are expected to vary depending on how much is involved at the customer’s home.  SPX estimates the cost of installation in most cases with be $1475.

SPX will also offer several other different chargers for customers to choose from.

The Voltec 240V charger can recharge the Volt from depleted to full in about four hours, drawing 3.3 kw of power.

Nissan has partnered with AeroVironment to install chargers for the LEAF electric car.  Those chargers, with similar specs, will cost about $2200 including installation.

SPX will work with local contractors to do customer installations.

GM says SPX will:

Manage all aspects of installation for Volt owners, including the home survey, installation, permitting, Department of Energy and utility coordination, and identification of available programs and incentives for reduced charging rates

The 240-v charger is optional as the Volt can be recharged using the standard 120-v wall socket charger that comes with the car.  This would take about ten hours.

Source (GM)

Here’s a new video about the charger and installation:

This entry was posted on Wednesday, October 6th, 2010 at 1:51 pm and is filed under Charging. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 91


  1. 1
    Chris C.

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (2:03 pm)

    Note that they will also offer other chargers beside this one, e.g. from Coulomb, although this Voltec unit is likely to be the cheapest offering for now.

    I’m surprised to see Clipper Creek’s product not in the offering list. They have the longest track record, have the heaviest duty gear (AFAICT) and actually have something you can buy NOW, meaning it already has its UL listing.

    Personally I will be interested in seeing what the higher-end chargers will offer. They better hurry up and get their specs out!


  2. 2
    yoyo

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (2:18 pm)

    the vast majority of the cost is the installation My quote for the charger + installation from Aeroenvironment for the Leaf charger was $2700.

    installation: $1700
    charging dock + 25′ cable: $720 ($230 more than the volt charger)
    permit: $185
    shipping: $50


  3. 3
    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (2:22 pm)

    Did anyone ever find out about the “Free” charger through the Department of Energy? Or was that another ‘tax credit’ thing…?


  4. 4
    eisemann-theater

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (2:27 pm)

    Just do it yourself or hire a normal electrician.

    Most electricians charge $250 to put in a new circuit.

    Buy some good 12 gauge at home depot run it to the garage and put it in.

    Pop a new breaker in the panel.

    These install costs are crazy.


  5. 5
    Loboc

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (2:49 pm)

    Hey. I thought they nixed the recoil cable? Is this the actual wall unit being installed?


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    ksstathead

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (2:49 pm)

    I don’t quite get the install pricing, either.

    Lots of amps for a sustained period might tax the overall house supply in combination with other appliances? But if not, it seems like just 3 conductors in conduit from a new 240 breaker to a box for the charger to mount to.


  7. 7
    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (2:56 pm)

    Loboc: Hey. I thought they nixed the recoil cable? Is this the actual wall unit being installed?  (Quote)

    The videos posted here yesterday show the ‘coiled’ charger just like this one when they briefly show the 240V unit.


  8. 8
    Mike D.

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (2:57 pm)

    Unfortunately, I’m not even considering the 240v charger unless I get one of those free 4,400 units the DOE was talking about. It is a nice to have, but not essential to charging for me.


  9. 9
    Roy H

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (3:22 pm)

    Installation does seem very high.

    Does it include installing a separate meter? If so that would be major cost.

    Are they assuming wiring through finished walls? This can add up quickly too. Its all about access. If you have to tear off the drywall from some walls and/or ceilings to run the wires, then replacing the drywall and re-painting can be expensive.

    Basic cost as pointed out by others is very low, some wire and a suitable breaker, less than $150.

    Be sure to use over-sized wire so upgrading to high amp (80 amps) in future will be easy.


  10. 10
    evnow

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (3:48 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Did anyone ever find out about the “Free” charger through the Department of Energy? Or was that another ‘tax credit’ thing…?

    Interesting question. The EV Project (by Ecotality) has been sending out people for home inspection etc. Infact Nissan has a separate ETEC (old name of ecotality) trim that gives free L3 port.

    Are you saying GM is not involved with the free EVSE project at all ?

    Here is the chargepointamerica website. Apparently individual buyers of Volt would have to apply to get a free EVSE here.

    http://chargepointamerica.com/blog/chargepoint-america/the-chevy-volt-meets-chargepoint-networked-charging/


  11. 11
    John Es

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (3:48 pm)

    Faster than 120v home charging is more important to Leaf and similar EVs that take a longer time to charge. For the Volt, I would want a charging station at my office to get the most electric miles possible.


  12. 12
    Starcast

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (3:48 pm)

    10 hours with 110 is only if it needs a full charge. 20 miles driven 5 hours charge. 240 is nice but not needed. (with the Volt)


  13. 13
    Loboc

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:07 pm)

    ksstathead: I don’t quite get the install pricing, either.

    Lots of amps for a sustained period might tax the overall house supply in combination with other appliances? But if not, it seems like just 3 conductors in conduit from a new 240 breaker to a box for the charger to mount to.

    3-conductor may not meet code in your area. The mains may not have capacity for another 30-amp circuit. That’s why they do an audit/analysis first.

    ‘a new 240 breaker’ is really a double-pole 30-amp (minimum) breaker. If you don’t even know the correct terms, you need a licensed electrician. Do you know what type breaker? (Square-D, GE, etc?) They’re all different.

    Roy H: Basic cost as pointed out by others is very low, some wire and a suitable breaker, less than $150.

    Be sure to use over-sized wire so upgrading to high amp (80 amps) in future will be easy.

    The cost of parts is not the point. It’s the cost of expert installation and knowledge. Personally, I don’t fool with 240v circuits unless I have an electrician helping. Good way to get fried.

    80amps continuous would require like 4ga wire (2ga would be better). We’re talking a sub-panel here, not a circuit. Why would you go that heavy for a 20-amp load (30-amp circuit)? Also, ya can’t just lay an insulated 80-amp wire across the attic. It needs to be in heavy conduit to protect it from future nail holes, rodents and such.

    eisemann-theater: Most electricians charge $250 to put in a new circuit.

    Buy some good 12 gauge at home depot run it to the garage and put it in.

    Pop a new breaker in the panel.

    These install costs are crazy.

    12ga won’t cut it if you’re trying to future-proof the installation. I use 10ga for 30amps. If you just ‘pop in a new’ breaker pair, you may overload the mains. There may not be enough capacity either available slots or available power.

    ————————————
    Caution is needed here people. Just buying some things at Home Depot and installing a hot circuit is not for the faint of heart. Done incorrectly, it could be disastrous.

    That said, you can save some money by doing parts of the installation (like running wire and conduit) and buying the parts yourself. Just make sure you have an electrician handy to keep your arse alive. A really friendly electrician can get the parts way cheaper than HD.

    http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/Wire-Gauge_Ampacity
    http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=70A


  14. 14
    DonC

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:17 pm)

    Chargers and install fees seem to be high. You’d think the wall unit would be more like $300 but when you’re in the first wave you apparently pay for the privilege. Installation fees also seem very high depending on how much work is involved. If it’s a short run and there is room on the panel it should cost half what they’re quoting.

    CorvetteGuy: Did anyone ever find out about the “Free” charger through the Department of Energy? Or was that another ‘tax credit’ thing…?

    You get a free charger if you’re selected to be in the Ecotality project. The locales for the Nissan and GM projects are not identical. If you don’t qualify for that, there is also a 50% tax credit up to something like $2500 but it is subject to the AMT.


  15. 15
    kent beuchert

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:19 pm)

    I just finished and had inspected my own electrical outlet (120V), which runs from my distribution panel (breaker box) along the garage wall (14/2 wire, 1/2″ EMT) and terminates at
    a 15Amp GFI outlet right next to the left front of my parked car, which is where the Volt’s receptacle is located. Total cost, including $55 permit, was less than $100.
    Had I put in a 240V circuit, the cost would have been roughly $130 to $150 and would have taken the same amount of time to install. It would have cost a bit less if I had hooked up to a Volt recharging unit, since that apparently doesn’t require a receptacle, since it’s appears to be hardwired and on a dedicated circuit. I am perhaps fortunate, since my panel is in such close proximity to the receptacle. It took about an hour to do the work, which I did in a rather leisurely fashion. As a homeowner, virtually every state allows you to do electrical work on your own home. If your confident you can handle the job, I would buy the unit, read the specs and do it myself. If your not confident but feel, as I do, that GM’s idea of what’s an “affordable price”
    must have come from Mars, then I’d get the unit, read the specs and go find an electrician who’s willing to do the job at night on on the weekend. He can sketch the diagram for the permitting office and you can go there yourself – usually simple jobs like this one will be approved within 24 hours. You can also go to Home Depot or Lowes or ACE and buy the materials he tells you that he will need. He can do the work (or lead you thru it) and you or he can stand in for the inspection. Quite frankly, most folks wouldn’t even bother to go thru the permitting process, but I always felt that doing so is better and eliminates any worries you might have.


  16. 16
    Tom

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:19 pm)

    Why is the Opal cord FREE ? Will it work?
    Tom


  17. 17
    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:21 pm)

    evnow: Are you saying GM is not involved with the free EVSE project at all ?

    The subject comes up during the dealership training, but there are no specifics other than it “runs out” on Dec. 31st this year – - – “but an extension is expected”.


  18. 18
    DonC

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:22 pm)

    Loboc: Caution is needed here people. Just buying some things at Home Depot and installing a hot circuit is not for the faint of heart. Done incorrectly, it could be disastrous.

    And if something does go wrong, and you haven’t used a licensed contractor, your home owners policy won’t cover the damage. It’s a standard exclusion — one more good reason not to cheap out for electrical or natural gas work.


  19. 19
    DonC

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:25 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: The subject comes up during the dealership training, but there are no specifics other than it “runs out” on Dec. 31st this year – – – “but an extension is expected”.

    That’s the tax credit not the EV Project. I think he’s asking about the EV Project.


  20. 20
    VegasGuy

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:26 pm)

    Why dont they offer it with a “dryer” style plug on it?
    I have that type of plug in my garage now for my welder.
    Installation cost would be zero since it could just be plugged
    in like the 120 volt version.


  21. 21
    Loboc

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:36 pm)

    kent beuchert: Quite frankly, most folks wouldn’t even bother to go thru the permitting process

    If you want to sell your house (especially to an FHA buyer), you’ll need the documentation. If you don’t have it, it could cause an unneeded FHA re-certification which could take a month.

    kent beuchert: It would have cost a bit less if I had hooked up to a Volt recharging unit, since that apparently doesn’t require a receptacle, since it’s appears to be hardwired and on a dedicated circuit.

    NEC requires hard wiring for 240v. You can’t have a 240v extension cord legally. It has to be hardwired at one end or the other (like a clothes dryer).

    kent beuchert: (14/2 wire, 1/2″ EMT) and terminates at
    a 15Amp GFI outlet

    I would have used 12ga and a 20-amp circuit, but, that’s just me. Putting Romex inside EMT is not a good practice as the wire can heat up excessively. But it’s way better than having exposed Romex.


  22. 22
    James

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:38 pm)

    This could be rolled into the price of the car – otherwise, a $2000+ “charger option” looks pretty bad, just to get 240v.

    Nissan Leaf pre-orderers have been pretty steamed about it. One guy posted online that AeroVironment’s contractor came out and since the homeowner had previously installed a 50 amp 240v circuit, basically all he was going to do was screw in two bolts and install the plug/hanger and quoted him $1440.00.

    Many have begun looking into options, Coulomb, etc. or doing it themselves. Kind of a big snag in the whole Leaf process since they’ve done so much to make it slick, streamlined and user-friendly…but for this point.

    Called a Seattle Nissan dealer today – this dealership will not open for business until mid November and he already has 20 Leaf orders. The sales manager was extremely well educated on Leaf and EVs and proved a fountain of information. The 480v quick charge, that supposedly will give you 80% charge in 30 minutes seems to be an “add-on connector” that he said they will probably install on the rear fender….Hmmm… Looks like early Volts and Leafs will have to have aftermarket tweaking – perhaps ugly battery ports attached to the side…??? My state ( Washington ) currently has/is installing 480v quick connect charge stations along certain stretches of the I-5 Interstate along with it’s more numerous 240v charging stations the full length of the state.

    PUMP OUT THE VOLTS! ,

    James


  23. 23
    Chris C.

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:43 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Did anyone ever find out about the “Free” charger through the Department of Energy? Or was that another ‘tax credit’ thing…?

    Re-read the article above. SPX will be coordinating. Give it a few more days and we should know.


  24. 24
    pjkPA

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:44 pm)

    Just call a local electrician.. he can put in a 240v outlet to match the car requirements at far less than these prices.
    If you are not a electrician stay away from electricity.. it is not forgiving.


  25. 25
    Chris C.

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:55 pm)

    VegasGuy: Why dont they offer it with a “dryer” style plug on it?
    I have that type of plug in my garage now for my welder.
    Installation cost would be zero since it could just be plugged
    in like the 120 volt version.

    Thanks for the softball. This is the first misconception that must be pounded flat when it pops up.

    How many times a year do you plug and unplug your dryer?

    A dryer outlet is literally not designed to handle plug/unplug cycles. It will fall apart in your hands if you keep exercising it. Even if you plan to keep that end plugged in, for purposes of electrical safety code they have to assume you’re going to unplug that cord and take it with you every day. Hence A) the serious engineering effort that went into the J1772 plug and B) the requirement that the EVSE box be hardwired into your house.


  26. 26
    Chris C.

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (4:58 pm)

    Loboc: If you don’t even know the correct terms, you need a licensed electrician. Do you know what type breaker? (Square-D, GE, etc?) They’re all different. … The cost of parts is not the point. It’s the cost of expert installation and knowledge. Personally, I don’t fool with 240v circuits unless I have an electrician helping. Good way to get fried.

    EXACTLY. Loboc’s comment (#13) needs to get voted above the +10 threshold. Don’t do this yourself, people.


  27. 27
    Raymondjram

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (5:03 pm)

    kent beuchert: I just finished and had inspected my own electrical outlet (120V), which runs from my distribution panel (breaker box) along the garage wall (14/2 wire, 1/2″ EMT) and terminates at
    a 15Amp GFI outlet right next to the left front of my parked car, which is where the Volt’s receptacle is located.Total cost, including $55 permit, was less than $100.Had I put in a 240V circuit, the cost would have been roughly$130 to $150 and would have taken the same amount of time to install. It would have cost a bit less if I had hooked up to a Volt recharging unit, since that apparently doesn’t require a receptacle, since it’s appears to be hardwired and on a dedicated circuit. I am perhaps fortunate, since my panel is in such close proximity to the receptacle. It took about an hour to do the work, which I did in a rather leisurely fashion. As a homeowner, virtually every state allows you to do electrical work on your own home. If your confident you can handle the job, I would buy the unit, read the specs and do it myself. If your not confident but feel, as I do, that GM’s idea of what’s an “affordable price”
    must have come from Mars, then I’d get the unit, read the specs and go find an electrician who’s willing to do the job at night on on the weekend. He can sketch the diagram for the permitting office and you can go there yourself – usually simple jobs like this one will be approved within 24 hours. You can also go to Home Depot or Lowes or ACE and buy the materials he tells you that he will need. He can do the work (or lead you thru it) and you or hecan stand in for the inspection. Quite frankly, most folks wouldn’t even bother to go thru the permitting process, but I always felt that doing so is better and eliminates any worries you might have.  

    I agree that the installation charges are too high. But if some EV owners are willing to pay for it, I can easily do the job. I will offer a discount only for Volt owners. But I will not charge so much!

    Raymond


  28. 28
    tom w

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (5:18 pm)

    “The Voltec 240V charger can recharge the Volt from depleted to full in about four hours, drawing 3.3 kw of power”

    I don’t understand the math. If its charging 3.3kw thats 13.75 amps at 240v, but the Volt only has 8kw MAXIMUM to charge, so shouldn’t that be more like 2 1/2 hours.

    Also if charging at 120v, and even if only 8 amps, isn’t that 1kw per hour, so maximum of 8 hours to charge the Volt.

    Same with the Leaf. Even trickle charging the Leaf over night as 120v should be sufficient.
    If you can charge 1kw per hour, 120V at 8 amps. Then lets say you leave for work at 7 am, Return home at 6pm, having driven 70 miles, used up 14 kwH, then that means you have 13 hours to trickle charge before you leave next morning at 7AM?

    If you end up short one day then you stop on the way home at a fast charge place and pump in an extra 5KWH in about 7 minutes, the trickle charge to full that night.

    Over the Weekends you top it off.

    I guess my point is Volt, Leaf whatever, tricle charging is all you need because charge stations will be available within a couple years and folks will be able to charge at work as well.

    Just like someone posted above about how gas stations popped up everywhere back in the day, and theres a heck of a lot more infrastructure with a gas station.


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    Cab Driver

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (5:28 pm)

    Chris C.: Thanks for the softball. This is the first misconception that must be pounded flat when it pops up.How many times a year do you plug and unplug your dryer?A dryer outlet is literally not designed to handle plug/unplug cycles. It will fall apart in your hands if you keep exercising it. Even if you plan to keep that end plugged in, for purposes of electrical safety code they have to assume you’re going to unplug that cord and take it with you every day. Hence A) the serious engineering effort that went into the J1772 plug and B) the requirement that the EVSE box be hardwired into your house.  (Quote)

    Just to support what Chris is saying, the National Electrical Code forbids connecting EVSE to a 240 volt plug for just this reason. The EVSE must be hard wired to the 240 volt circuit. Also, the circuit must be dedicated (not shared).


  30. 30
    CorvetteGuy

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (6:13 pm)

    pjkPA: If you are not a electrician stay away from electricity.. it is not forgiving.

    Crazy Harry play with electricity!!!

    crazy_harry.jpg


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    evnow

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (6:14 pm)

    DonC: You get a free charger if you’re selected to be in the Ecotality project.

    True. But there is a seaarate project that will give 4,400 free EVSE to owners of Volt, Ford Focus etc. This is run by Coulomb.

    http://chargepointamerica.com/pr/pr-20100602-a.php

    Campbell, Calif., June 2, 2010 – Coulomb Technologies today announced it will deliver free home and public ChargePoint® Networked Charging Stations for electric vehicles throughout the United States. The ChargePoint America program will provide nearly 5000 charging stations to program participants in nine regions in the United States: Austin, Texas, Detroit, Los Angeles, New York, Orlando, Fla., Sacramento, Calif., the San Jose/San Francisco Bay Area, Redmond, Wash., and Washington DC and is a strategic partnership with three leading automobile brands including, Ford, Chevrolet and smart USA.

    I guess this is something for Lyle to get more info on and post …


  32. 32
    EricLG

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (6:21 pm)

    In what way would an install be EV specific to the Volt and not the LEAF, or vice versa ?


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    DonC

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (6:25 pm)

    evnow: But there is a seaarate project that will give 4,400 free EVSE to owners of Volt, Ford Focus etc. This is run by Coulomb.

    Didn’t know about the “seaarate” project (only kidding). I knew the regions differed from the Ecotallity but didn’t know how that worked. Thanks.

    EricLG: In what way would an install be EV specific to the Volt and not the LEAF, or vice versa ?  

    It wouldn’t. Any box will work with any car.


  34. 34
    DonC

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (6:27 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Crazy Harry play with electricity!!!

    Funny but that looks more like explosives than electricity! Then again if you’re running a 200 amp line maybe it’s the same thing.


  35. 35
    EricLG

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (6:38 pm)

    Off-topic, this forum still has quite a bit of activity in general, but this thread, which probably only appeals to near-future buyers, is much less visited.

    As for installation price, I suggest shopping around and waiting a bit for local electricians to get into the action. My home PV electric install cost is $1200 for comparison, and I dare say it is more involved than a box for 240v.


  36. 36
    Loboc

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (6:59 pm)

    VegasGuy: Why dont they offer it with a “dryer” style plug on it?
    I have that type of plug in my garage now for my welder.
    Installation cost would be zero since it could just be plugged
    in like the 120 volt version.

    If it was hardwired into the Volt (no connector), then, it may pass code. You can’t have a 240v wire/cable that is a plug at both ends like an extension cord. It’s illegal.


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    Eco_Turbo

     

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (7:00 pm)

    An electrician may not be able to set up the software to report the charging information to the DOE or whoever is interested in this stuff.


  38. 38
    Loboc

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (7:12 pm)

    tom w: I don’t understand the math. If its charging 3.3kw thats 13.75 amps at 240v, but the Volt only has 8kw MAXIMUM to charge, so shouldn’t that be more like 2 1/2 hours.

    Also if charging at 120v, and even if only 8 amps, isn’t that 1kw per hour, so maximum of 8 hours to charge the Volt.

    It’s probably not linear (full power across the full time). There is also some overhead for conversion from 240v to DC. I’m guessing like 10% losses within the circuitry and battery. Don’t quote me on that.


  39. 39
    Loboc

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (7:16 pm)

    DonC:

    CorvetteGuy: Crazy Harry play with electricity!!!

    DonC: Funny but that looks more like explosives than electricity! Then again if you’re running a 200 amp line maybe it’s the same thing.

    Stick a screwdriver across the bus bars and you’ll wish it was only an explosion!


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    solo

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (7:26 pm)

    1475.00 to install? WOW.

    Assuming you have space in your existing service panel for a double pole breaker, I could do it for a LOT less. For those not electrical savy, you go to your home improvement center and buy 8 gauge romex in a length that will reach from your service panel to the charger. You buy a double pole breaker (30 to 60 amp depending on the needs of the charger) and get to work. We are talking about 150 worth of parts here. The only tricky part would be caused by access from your service panel to the garage. If EVERYTHING in your house is dry-walled, you’re screwed. Many houses however have the service panel either near or in the garage.

    Now, if you have an old house with 120v service only, then you are REALLY screwed. You have to call an electrical contractor, and your utility, take a day off work, hope everybody shows up when they are supposed to………..

    495.00 for the charger isn’t bad at all, assuming they will be compatible with future electric cars (Not likely, buy hey, you can be hopeful!).

    Lets face it. GM’s first generation ON STAR was based on an analog phone system. When the carrier dropped the system, old ON STAR customers were left out in the cold. GM did not offer ANY upgrade modules for older cars. GM’s record on long term customer service leave something to be desired.


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    ClarksonCote

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (7:37 pm)

    Chris C.: Thanks for the softball. This is the first misconception that must be pounded flat when it pops up.How many times a year do you plug and unplug your dryer?A dryer outlet is literally not designed to handle plug/unplug cycles. It will fall apart in your hands if you keep exercising it. Even if you plan to keep that end plugged in, for purposes of electrical safety code they have to assume you’re going to unplug that cord and take it with you every day. Hence A) the serious engineering effort that went into the J1772 plug and B) the requirement that the EVSE box be hardwired into your house.  (Quote)

    So I agree here, that a dryer-style plug couldn’t handle the cycles… However, why not just have this charger plug into a dryer-style plug once… i.e. the charger unit is like the dryer, it just stays there and never gets unplugged from the wall socket. Or is this what they’re planning?

    join thE REVolution


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    canehdian

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (7:47 pm)

    ClarksonCote: However, why not just have this charger plug into a dryer-style plug once… i.e. the charger unit is like the dryer, it just stays there and never gets unplugged from the wall socket.

    Agreed 1000%.
    To require these things to be hard wired to the panel is absurd, with huge costs.
    They should make them plug into a standard dryer socket so regardless of which charger you get the install is simple, if not already done for some people.

    All you need is a 240v dryer outlet in your garage and you can hang the unit on the wall and plug it in. Done. No BS thousands in fees for nothing.


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (7:56 pm)

    I strongly suspect that the high installation costs assume that you are going to run a separate meter, so wiring must go all the way to where the electric service enters your house.

    In my case I already have a separate 240V panel in the garage that was meant for an air compressor that I never bought. The panel is just inches away from where the junction with the 240 volt chord would be wired. Anything over $50 would just be nuts. BUT, if I wanted a separate meter so that I could do time of day billing, that would be a whole ‘nuther thing.

    And the “free” chargers come with strings attached. You have to agree to give your usage data to the government and/or the utility company. It may be tied to time of day billing also. That can be a trojan horse all by itself. Nothing about this is as simple as it seems. Sometimes it seems like just putting in a 120V outlet is the right thing — it certainly is the simplest. And to reiterate the safety issue – these lines should be enclosed in electrical conduit that will protect the circuit from nails being driven, or holes being drilled, or just being hit by something falling against it.


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (8:05 pm)

    Don’t forget there’s a 50% federal tax credit for the home charger, so that will help with the cost of installation.


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (8:58 pm)

    Best wishes to the Consumer Advisory Board and thanks for participating. Enjoy the 6 speaker Bose system and super smooth ride. Will be watching for Volt feedback in a few weeks.

    Volt_red_driveway.jpg

    http://garfwod.250free.com/Volt_Nightwish_Angel.mp3

    =D-Volt


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (9:59 pm)

    GM should sell the 240 volt charger at cost to avoid EV-1 negativity. Range has been solved with E-REV, lease or buy solved lease only, and a 120 charger is included. But that quick charge option is sticker shock!


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    neutron

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    Oct 6th, 2010 (10:04 pm)

    eisemann-theater: Just do it yourself or hire a normal electrician.Most electricians charge $250 to put in a new circuit.Buy some good 12 gauge at home depot run it to the garage and put it in.Pop a new breaker in the panel.These install costs are crazy.  

    10 gauge wire is the better choice.


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (10:06 pm)

    ClarksonCote and canehdian, I’ll repeat what I said because you must have missed it. Dryer outlets are not a solution, they are an accident waiting to happen.

    Even if you plan to keep the wall end of the cord plugged in, for purposes of electrical safety code they have to assume you’re going to unplug that cord and take it with you every day. Hence A) the serious engineering effort that went into the J1772 plug and B) the requirement that the EVSE box be hardwired into your house.


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (10:29 pm)

    Tried to find a definitive wire gauge chart for household wiring, but this is the best I could find:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
    I suggested earlier that 80 amp wire would be good for future proofing. This is based on the Tesla charger that is 75 amps. This would require about 4 awg wiring. Stove wiring is about 6 awg so this is pretty heavy duty stuff.

    There has been discussions about do it yourself. Legally you are allowed to install wiring as owner of your own house ONLY IF YOU GET A PERMIT. I have found this is the best way as the approx. $80 permit comes with an inspector who really knows his stuff. They will tell you all the requirements and the inspector will point out anything you have done wrong. Extremely worth while expense. Once passed inspection there is no problem with insurance.


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (10:53 pm)

    canehdian:

    ClarksonCote: However, why not just have this charger plug into a dryer-style plug once… i.e. the charger unit is like the dryer, it just stays there and never gets unplugged from the wall socket.

    canehdian: Agreed 1000%.
    To require these things to be hard wired to the panel is absurd, with huge costs.
    They should make them plug into a standard dryer socket so regardless of which charger you get the install is simple, if not already done for some people.

    All you need is a 240v dryer outlet in your garage and you can hang the unit on the wall and plug it in. Done. No BS thousands in fees for nothing.

    And this is why my neighbor’s house burned down on Easter Sunday. Go ahead. Don’t follow the code. I’m tired of saying it.

    You’re drawing 20amps continuously for 4 hours. A dryer typically runs for 1 hour and part of that is ‘cool down’. A typical dryer draws 5.5kwh (5600 watts for a one-hour cycle), but, that’s not the point.

    The dryer covers the outlet so ya can’t drop things against it or accidentally yank it part-way out exposing the blades. If the ‘charger’ were 100lbs and 3′x4′x30″, or if it fully covered the outlet, then, it might be ok. (But still against code.) Reusing a dryer circuit needs the same care as installing a new circuit.

    What is so difficult about relocating the dryer box (probably need a different size box) higher on the wall and doing the install safely? As long as all other specification are correct (such as wire size, breaker size, distance from overhead doors, etc.), it really shouldn’t be that big a deal.

    /I swear there’s gonna be an accident and it will reflect badly on the safety of charging at home. All we need at this nascent juncture is more regulation because of a few stupid people.


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (11:20 pm)

    Same with the Leaf. Even trickle charging the Leaf over night as 120v should be sufficient.
    If you can charge 1kw per hour, 120V at 8 amps. Then lets say you leave for work at 7 am, Return home at 6pm, having driven 70 miles, used up 14 kwH, then that means you have 13 hours to trickle charge before you leave next morning at 7AM?

    If you end up short one day then you stop on the way home at a fast charge place and pump in an extra 5KWH in about 7 minutes, the trickle charge to full that night
    Tom W Post 28

    The Volt can’t do the fast charge Read this from Gary Kissel

    [Comment From Jackson Jackson : ]
    Under what circumstances would GM allow access to the Volt’s DC power system for an external charger able to supply (for example) 240V @ 48 amps? A 45 minute recharge could jump-start (sorry) public charging initiatives.

    Thursday August 20, 2009 2:05 Jackson
    2:06 Gery Kissel: The current Volt does not accomodate offboard DC charging

    Comment From evchels evchels : ]
    while it’s not crucial for PHEV/EREVs, do you expect at some point to enable the Volt w 6.6kW charging capability, given that much of the public charging will likely land in that range- and the existing infrastructure is already ~240v/40a?

    Thursday August 20, 2009 2:16 evchels
    2:17 Gery Kissel: Hi Chelsea – The current size of the Volt charger is based on the battery size and recharge requirements. Unless one of those changes, we are going to stick with 3.3KW

    Comment From Paul C from Austin Paul C from Austin : ]
    With external power charge spots, like those coming from Coulomb, at what rate will the Volt charge up?

    Thursday August 20, 2009 2:38 Paul C from Austin
    2:39 Gery Kissel: The Volt’s on-board charger has a max charge rate of 3.3KW regardless of the capability of the EVSE

    [Comment From Power questionerPower questioner: ]
    Will the volt be able to take higher voltage than 240V at specialized stations, much like a gas station, for faster charging.

    Thursday August 20, 2009 2:47 Power questioner
    2:48 Gery Kissel: No, the Volt is not designed for DC fast charging. A standard has not yet been established for DC fast chargin


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (11:56 pm)

    what does this mean for me?

    aussies have 240v 10 – 15 amp at every household plug, our stoves are hard wired at over 65 amps to our fuse box,

    do i need this charger gm?

    stuey


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    Oct 6th, 2010 (11:59 pm)

    don’t know where exactly to put this, but as reported by patrick wang, the following are the details of the west coast stops of the “chevy volt unplugged tour” (i don’t know whether there are any signup slots left):

    Seattle – Oct. 9 and 10
    Oct. 9 -10 a.m – 6 p.m.
    Griot’s Garage Ride and Drive and Tour Kick-Off
    3333 S. 38th Street
    Tacoma, WA 98409
    Oct. 10 – 11 a.m. – 3 p.m.
    Volt Ride and Drive at Best Buy
    19225 Alderwood Mall Pkwy
    Lynnwood, WA 98036

    San Francisco – Oct. 13 and 14
    Oct. 14 – 10 a.m. – 4 p.m.
    Volt Ride and Drive
    50 Moraga Ave.
    San Francisco, CA 91429

    Los Angeles – Oct. 16 – 18
    Oct. 16 – 12 – 4 p.m.
    Volt Ride and Drive at LA Fashion Weekend’s Public “Green” Show
    Sunset Gower Studios
    1438 North Gower Street
    Los Angeles, CA 90028
    Oct. 17 – 11 a.m. – 3 p.m.
    Volt Ride and Drive at Best Buy
    740 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Manhattan Beach, CA 90245

    San Diego – Oct. 20
    Oct. 20 – 10 a.m. – 2 p.m.
    Volt Ride and Drive at Center for Sustainable Energy
    8690 Balboa Ave., Suite 100
    San Diego, CA 92123


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (12:18 am)

    Good lord, who is doing these installs for $1,400 dollars? Trying to kill the golden goose it seems. Electricians wouldn’t charge anywhere near this much to install this in Ohio. Many done for less then $300.

    What gives with these costs?


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (12:43 am)

    Here is my recent experience with 240 V rewireing of a conventional one story 50 year old house in southern California. I had a requirement to run new wireing from the 200 amp breaker box to a 120 V and a 240 V wall air conditioning unit. I asked the electrician to stretch the 240 V line to the detached garage in anticipation of a future Volt charging station.

    Wireing was run under the eves and through the attic then jumped over to the garage to deadend in a subpanel to await the eventual 240 V charging station. Wires used were #6 cable for the 240 V and #12 for the 120 V. All ran through metal conduit. Total cost was about $1,600, but if it was only the 240 V to the garage I believe it would have been about half this amount. I believe the electrician said the 240 was good for 50 amps (I know it was at least 40). It took one day to install and looks good.

    Now to just get that car.

    BIG BTRY


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (1:25 am)

    caldoodlevolt: I had a requirement to run new wireing from the 200 amp breaker box to a 120 V and a 240 V wall air conditioning unit.

    200 amp service on a 50 year old house. That has to have been an upgrade!


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (1:32 am)

    eisemann-theater: Buy some good 12 gauge at home depot run it to the garage and put it in.

    12 gauge would be 20 amps max, is that what you’re advocating?
    I’m hardly and expert, but I would recommend a thicker gauge.
    I think even AWG 10 (30 amps) is too thin if you’re stringing anew.

    I have AWG 4 running from my main panel to my new garage, which
    may be overkill. If I recall correctly that should be good for 140 amps.
    I think I told the contractor I didn’t need more than 100A, so I’m
    surprised he didn’t use AWG 6.

    VegasGuy: Why dont they offer it with a “dryer” style plug on it?

    Chris C.: Thanks for the softball. This is the first misconception that must be pounded flat when it pops up.

    How many times a year do you plug and unplug your dryer?

    A dryer outlet is literally not designed to handle plug/unplug cycles.

    It was my understanding that VegasGuy planned to plug the charger
    into the dryer outlet. We would expect it to be plugged/unplugged
    no more often than an actual dryer. The other end of the charger
    would repeatedly be plugged into the vehicle.

    So not a softball, I think, but still not up to code.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (5:26 am)

    I can’t imagine a dryer connection would be much cheaper to install than the charger, assuming there’s no software or communication, etc, setup.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (7:16 am)

    Solo mentioned a concern for non-compatible chargers.

    When I took my drive in the Leaf this week, Mark Perry of Nissan assured me that the entire industry–after much dispute–agreed on one standard about 8 months ago so that all chargers will fit all cars.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (7:36 am)

    bt: When I took my drive in the Leaf this week, Mark Perry of Nissan assured me that the entire industry–after much dispute–agreed on one standard about 8 months ago so that all chargers will fit all cars.

    GREAT NEWS (and from a very senior guy at Nissan)!


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (7:37 am)

    bitguru: I have AWG 4 running from my main panel to my new garage, which
    may be overkill. If I recall correctly that should be good for 140 amps.
    I think I told the contractor I didn’t need more than 100A, so I’m
    surprised he didn’t use AWG 6.

    AWG 4 is good for about 70 to 80 amps. at 140 amps you could start a fire. 6 AWG is typical for a 40 to 50 amp stove.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (7:40 am)

    Eco_Turbo: I can’t imagine a dryer connection would be much cheaper to install than the charger, assuming there’s no software or communication, etc, setup.  

    Yes, there must be a communications interface, probably a CAT5 cable for internet. Do you have a router with a spare plug?


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (8:34 am)

    bt: Solo mentioned a concern for non-compatible chargers.When I took my drive in the Leaf this week, Mark Perry of Nissan assured me that the entire industry–after much dispute–agreed on one standard about 8 months ago so that all chargers will fit all cars.

    He’s talking about the J1772 Level1/Level2 plug standard. There is still no standard for Level 3. nasaman, is that what you were getting excited about?

    Since a new article hasn’t been posted yet and you all might still be reading comments in this thread … All, Loboc’s comments #13, #21 and #50 above desperately need to get voted up. This “I can wire it myself” and “use a dryer outlet” nonsense needs to get stopped cold before someone kills themselves.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (8:49 am)

    What a great birthday present! Less than 500 for the 240v charger and I’m already hard wired for 240 to my garage and my next door neighbor is a licensed electrician. Life is sweet! Now my only problem is getting my hands on a Volt. Have a great Oct. 7th all you Volt fans.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (8:53 am)

    Loboc: You can’t have a 240v wire/cable that is a plug at both ends like an extension cord. It’s illegal.  (Quote)

    I live in FL. Land of hurricanes and backup generators. You would have no way of hooking up your generator to your transfer switch if it was illegal.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (9:03 am)

    Roy H:
    Yes, there must be a communications interface, probably a CAT5 cable for internet. Do you have a router with a spare plug?  

    This is the first I’ve heard about needing an Internet connection hard wired to the car. Are you sure about this?


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (9:05 am)

    OT: 5 weeks from TODAY is Job-1 day for the Chevrolet Volt. 35 days and counting down!


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (9:06 am)

    flmark:
    I live in FL.Land of hurricanes and backup generators.You would have no way of hooking up your generator to your transfer switch if it was illegal.  

    It’s still illegal. It’s during an emergency so it’s the same as using jumper cables. Not a permanent setup at all like charging a car every night.

    Make sure your transfer switch doesn’t energize the grid side. You could fry a lineman.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (9:14 am)

    Loboc: It’s still illegal. It’s during an emergency so it’s the same as using jumper cables. Not a permanent setup at all like charging a car every night.Make sure your transfer switch doesn’t energize the grid side. You could fry a lineman.  (Quote)

    I guess you need a different word than ‘illegal’. Just because there is an ‘emergency’, things don’t suddenly become ‘legal’. Reminds me of the phrase ‘SORTA pregnant’ (either you ARE or you AREN’T). ILLEGAL implies that such a cord would be contraband- which it obviously is NOT!


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (9:15 am)

    Assuming there will be some type of communication, has anyone heard how this will be done? ie: Through OnStar, or utility wiring, etc.


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (9:39 am)

    stuey81_in_australia: what does this mean for me?aussies have 240v 10– 15 amp at every household plug, our stoves are hard wired at over 65 amps to our fuse box,do i need this charger gm?stuey  

    The ‘charger’ is just an interface to the house’s electrical system. It has some smarts in it so that it doesn’t energize the 240v until it ‘sees’ the car is connected. Plus, it has the special connector.

    This is probably why it has an amber light on the dash before it goes green. Amber would indicate that the handshake and system check is taking place.

    Since Australian (and European) electrical systems are 240v only (no 120v), there might be a special cable in the trunk for these applications. The wall plug pin-out and configuration is different as well.

    Only GM (or Lyle may be able to help) can say for sure how various country electrical systems and codes are handled. The Volt’s on-board charger can handle a range of voltages and amperes. It’s the connector (at the wall end) that would be different.

    Are you guys getting Volt or Ampera down under?


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (10:02 am)

    Loboc: And this is why my neighbor’s house burned down on Easter Sunday. Go ahead. Don’t follow the code. I’m tired of saying it.You’re drawing 20amps continuously for 4 hours. A dryer typically runs for 1 hour and part of that is ‘cool down’. A typical dryer draws 5.5kwh (5600 watts for a one-hour cycle), but, that’s not the point.The dryer covers the outlet so ya can’t drop things against it or accidentally yank it part-way out exposing the blades. If the ‘charger’ were 100lbs and 3′x4′x30″, or if it fully covered the outlet, then, it might be ok. (But still against code.) Reusing a dryer circuit needs the same care as installing a new circuit.What is so difficult about relocating the dryer box (probably need a different size box) higher on the wall and doing the install safely? As long as all other specification are correct (such as wire size, breaker size, distance from overhead doors, etc.), it really shouldn’t be that big a deal./I swear there’s gonna be an accident and it will reflect badly on the safety of charging at home. All we need at this nascent juncture is more regulation because of a few stupid people.  (Quote)

    I know many industrial locations that have expensive three phase and single phase equipment that draw much more current than a dryer or even this charge station. They don’t have all their equipment hard wired, there are solutions available.

    My only point is that, if this is being wired directly to the electrical panel, that’s just silly. If they can figure out a way to connect the charger to the car with a plug, there’s no reason they can’t connect the charger to the home’s electrical supply with a plug.

    I don’t care so much if it’s a dryer plug or not.

    There are plugs designed for 240V, 20A current draw. http://www.x10pro.com/pro/pdf/pam04.pdf
    This one even gives you X10 remote control of the power being supplied.

    If the charger is designed such that it is “permanently mounted” in some fashion, it would seem that the assumption that it is going to be unplugged every day and taken with someone could then be tossed aside. JMHO.

    join thE REVolution


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (10:33 am)

    flmark:
    I guess you need a different word than ‘illegal’.Just because there is an ‘emergency’, things don’t suddenly become ‘legal’.Reminds me of the phrase ‘SORTA pregnant’ (either you ARE or you AREN’T).ILLEGAL implies that such a cord would be contraband- which it obviously is NOT!  

    You also can’t be ‘SORTA DEAD’. It’s an all or nothing thing.

    I am using the word ‘illegal’ to mean ‘doesn’t comply with the National Electrical Code (NEC) for the US’. If I used that phrase every time, my posts would be much longer. :) I guess I could say it’s a ‘violation’ but my aim here is to keep people alive.

    Violating the NEC is not generally a criminal offense (unless you bypass metering or something). You can be fined and have your electricity cut off in some cases though. If you fry someone with your generator, then, there may be some criminal charges coming your way.

    The NEC is there for a reason. To keep people from killing themselves or having unlicensed people do it for them. The code is updated periodically to reflect new equipment and techniques. Enforcement is done by permitting, licensing and inspection. There are no NEC police.

    My point is and has been: Be Careful. Get help if you don’t understand the code, materials and techniques to comply. You are literally taking your life in your hands. One micro-second of inattention is all it takes to earn your pine box!

    One of my neighbors got killed a couple weeks ago while trimming a tree. Electricity is deadly and unforgiving. You don’t get a second chance. Be Careful

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/05/11/2181297/tarrant-county-subcontractor-electrocuted.html
    http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04/23/2137780/fort-worth-man-fatally-injured.html
    http://mineralwellsindex.com/local/x1612550527/FW-man-dies-by-electrocution

    http://ezinearticles.com/?Electrocution:-The-Six-Top-Danger-Points-and-How-to-Avoid-Them&id=37572


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    CarZin

     

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (10:43 am)

    Can someone explain to me why the installation will cost so much? Every 240 circuit in my house that I had ran hasnt been very expensive. My panel is right behind my garage.


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    Evil Conservative

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (10:43 am)

    VegasGuy: Why dont they offer it with a “dryer” style plug on it?I have that type of plug in my garage now for my welder.Installation cost would be zero since it could just be pluggedin like the 120 volt version.  (Quote)

    You just answered your own question. Hook up a dryer cord to the charger and plug it in. Then when you need to use your welder just unplug the charger and plug in your welder. You have the simplest install of anyone. (installed for less then $20)

    This is exactly what I would do IF I ever get a Volt. Then if I would ever move, removal of the charger is simple.


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    Timaaayyy!!!

     

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (10:59 am)

    At least it’ll be a few years until the turkey fryer people get a hold of this. Do they already have 240 out to their garage for the meth lab?


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    srschrier

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (11:30 am)

    Lansing, Michigan electric utility announces plans to give $7,500. in cash to EREV & BEV buyers:

    http://green.autoblog.com/2010/10/05/more-details-on-the-countrys-best-plug-in-vehicle-deal-get-15/

    Maybe we’ll see more incentives like this around the country?


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (11:37 am)

    BLDude: OT: 5 weeks from TODAY is Job-1 day for the Chevrolet Volt. 35 days and counting down!  (Quote)

    Well , someone should reset the NetLook countdown clock. It has 53 days.

    Raymond


  79. 79
    Raymondjram

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (12:03 pm)

    Loboc: If it was hardwired into the Volt (no connector), then, it may pass code. You can’t have a 240v wire/cable that is a plug at both ends like an extension cord. It’s illegal.  (Quote)

    For what I have read and seen here, the Volt connector has its pins insulated, so if someone lifted an unused charger plug and placed a finger inside, there will be no shock hazard. The purpose is that any electrical connector on the live side of a circuit must have its contacts insulated, and is is usually a “female” type of connection, described as a receptacle in some cases. There are male connectors that are insulated (multimeter leads, for example), so if the Volt charger connector is wired to a cable to a regular “dryer” plug , that is not “illegal” and wouldn’t be a NEC violation, although the “dryer” plug isn’t insulated, becasue the “dryer” outlet is. That would be a plug-to-plug cable.

    But if you want to have a safe connection for a removable cable, use a Twist-Lock connector. This is mandatory in many industrial installations because if someone tugs on the cable, it will not disconnect accidentally. I work with large computer systems, and we use RussellStoll and Hubbell male and female connectors because it is required by code under the floor panels. I have a few 230 VAC, 30 A Hubbell plugs (HBL2621 – same as L6-30P) at my desk as I write this. I use 4-wire Twist-Lock connectors to attach my home genset to the transfer switch, and it has never failed me in eleven years under rainy and windy conditions.

    Raymond


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    flmark

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (12:18 pm)

    Loboc: I guess I could say it’s a ‘violation’ but my aim here is to keep people alive.Violating the NEC is not generally a criminal offense   (Quote)

    Better stated. Most people perceive ‘illegal’ as something you can be arrested for and most people would not use ‘code violation’ and ‘illegal’ interchangeably. It would be ridiculous to say that your garbage can is illegal just because it doesn’t meet code.

    And codes change; that doesn’t make the old stuff ‘illegal’- or even ‘unsafe’. When I built my house in 1996, I put a door on my loft office’s exit to the stairs. That now violates code. Some numbskull autocrat decided that you might forget where you have the stairs in your own house. In my city, you can no longer have a door adjacent to stairs- there must be a landing in between.

    Additionally, when my house was built, it was REQUIRED to put 1 ft lengths of dead ended pipe (all PVC around here in FL) to act as water hammer arrestors above plumbing connections. These sections of pipe have TINY necks on them so that slightly engaging them causes flexure and breakage- and resulting flooding in the house until you make it to the water main shutoff. I have $18,000 worth of damage from this piece of code- that has since been deleted. Someone realized- they soon fill up with water and prevent no water hammer after a few months in the house.

    I take all codes with a grain of salt. Maybe it is the engineer in me, but I always want to know the ‘why’ behind all of this coding and often there is no explanation except, ‘just because’.

    I fabricated one of those ‘extension cords’ that you said is ‘illegal’, using the proper gauge wire and proper (UL listed) connectors. And there ain’t no bureaucrat gonna stop me from using it when needed. The lawyers have made it so that you must be properly informed not to use your lawn mower as a hedge trimmer. For crying out loud, everything you buy these days has four pages of disclaimers before you actually get to read about HOW your new gadget actually works. Once you throw this much crap in people’s way, they start ignoring ALL of it- even the IMPORTANT stuff.

    And as our Aussie friend is pointing out, much of the world already operates at high voltage (with 110v nowhere to be found)- meaning ALL of their extension cords would be ‘illegal’.


  81. 81
    caldoodlevolt

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (12:32 pm)

    Regarding NetLook’s countdown, it has been 19 days off since GM anounced that job-1 will be done on Veteran’s Day 2010. The countdown hedged and calculated for months that this would be the last day of the month GM said production would begin.

    Just subtract 19 days from the calendar and there it is, just 34 days away. Then the Michigan lady bug and the Detroit lightning bugs will have that first production Volt ready for some lucky person, or maybe a museum.

    BIG BTRY


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    Mike-o-Matic

     

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (12:43 pm)

    Chris C.: This “I can wire it myself” and “use a dryer outlet” nonsense needs to get stopped cold before someone kills themselves.

    Safety should be Priority #1, for sure. On the other hand, some of us know what we’re doing, or at least, know enough to understand when it’s time to get a pro to do the job for us.

    What I’m really saying here is that people who can do-it-themselves *safely* should NOT be forced to pay some exorbitant fee unnecessarily.

    Education of the vehicle buyer will sort this out, for the most part.
    Darwin will take care of the rest :-)


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    Mike-o-Matic

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (12:49 pm)

    flmark: For crying out loud, everything you buy these days has four pages of disclaimers before you actually get to read about HOW your new gadget actually works.

    If they ever include that part, at all! +1


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    Loboc

     

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (1:34 pm)

    flmark: meaning ALL of their extension cords would be ‘illegal’

    The NEC only applies in places that adopt it. Mostly, non-US entities have their own code.


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    greenWin

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (2:34 pm)

    The high estimates for 240V installation will dampen enthusiasm. As will the temporary cap of the 3.3kW charge rate. We would expect this to shift on later revs and when DC fast charge specification is finalized.

    Until then, Volt owners can call their local electrician and tell then they want to put a dryer circuit in their garage. That will produce a standard estimate well under $500 unless there is a very long run to the panel. Once the electrician is on site – give him the 240V GM Charger ask him to hard wire it instead. He might charge an extra $25 for the privilege.

    Further, the VERY conservative estimate for charging at 240V of 4 hours seems odd. As tom W points out, the time to fully charge the 8kW fully discharged battery should be around 2.5 hours. Not that it matters overnight since people are not in a rush. But IF you drive 40 miles to the distant mall/town and want to leave a couple hours later… the faster charge through a third party charge point is necessary.

    Let’s not scare people from considering VOLT because they’ve heard it costs $2,500.00 to put in a home charger!


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    Oct 7th, 2010 (4:30 pm)

    The recommended Voltec charge station is only rated at 15 amps / 240v (https://www.homecharging.spx.com/volt/pdf/SS10-283_VOLTECH.pdf) and current limiting capability is not mentioned. If gen II or later Volts go to 6.6kw chargers, as Leafs are planning to do, you would have to replace the charge station.


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    Chris C.

     

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (4:49 pm)

    Raymondjram: But if you want to have a safe connection for a removable cable, use a Twist-Lock connector. This is mandatory in many industrial installations because if someone tugs on the cable, it will not disconnect accidentally.

    I hear you, and it was considered by the SAE standards board, but it was ruled out. For one (and this is just off the top of my head, when in Rome you know) the average consumer does not have experience with twisting power connectors and might struggle with it. For two, a connector is more likely to physically FAIL if you twist it hard, simply because of the material mechanics and how much torque we can apply with our hands; in other words, the average frustrated person, pissed off because they can’t get the blasted hose thingy off the car, would twist harder and harder until BOOM fractured parts, sparks, lawsuits, et cetera.

    J1772 has a latch to prevent the connector from falling out.

    Believe me, they put a LOT of thought into this, and ALL of the car makers were (and are) on board.

    ChuckR: The recommended Voltec charge station is only rated at 15 amps / 240v (https://www.homecharging.spx.com/volt/pdf/SS10-283_VOLTECH.pdf) and current limiting capability is not mentioned.If gen II or later Volts go to 6.6kw chargers, as Leafs are planning to do, you would have to replace the charge station.

    Bingo! That’s why I won’t be buying this unit, even though it’ll probably be the low price point in the market. I’ll pay extra for A) 6.6 kW capability and B) higher grade construction with the more likely possibility of future upgrades to support V2G.


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    canehdian

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    Oct 7th, 2010 (8:38 pm)

    Loboc: You’re drawing 20amps continuously for 4 hours. A dryer typically runs for 1 hour and part of that is ‘cool down’. A typical dryer draws 5.5kwh (5600 watts for a one-hour cycle), but, that’s not the point.

    The dryer covers the outlet so ya can’t drop things against it or accidentally yank it part-way out exposing the blades. If the ‘charger’ were 100lbs and 3′x4′x30″, or if it fully covered the outlet, then, it might be ok. (But still against code.) Reusing a dryer circuit needs the same care as installing a new circuit.

    I know a lot of people use gas stoves in the US, but around here many people use electric ranges. (same socket as a dryer)
    I don’t know how many years I’ve cooked a large thanksgiving dinner with the oven on and all burners on to boil for several hours at a time.

    So not sure why you think an electrical outlet designed for high amp 240 loads would not able to work for more than a couple hours?

    There would be a hell of a lot more fires every holiday around the country if that were the case.

    A charger would be plugged into the socket once, and left there.
    If you’re so worried about accidental falling objects and such, why not have the unit itself fit entirely over the socket? In order to be mounted, it must be screwed to the wall, firmly in the socket?

    There’s no reason why a socket rated for 240v 50a could not be used to charge a vehicle for extended periods of time. If used at half that rating, it could charge an EV in 4 hours max.
    And since its at half the rated amps, there’s not the slightest issue of the overheating you fear of.


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    Dan Petit

     

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    Oct 9th, 2010 (12:38 pm)

    SPX makes the most affordable and most powerful automotive diagnostic scanner, the Genisys.
    It makes sense that the SPX super-aggressive and aquisative competitive business model can drive down the cost of installation.

    Since I have already contracted to have my charger installed, (and have my licensed electrician neighbor already arranged), my installation and site survey is already spoken for as a preexisting contract.

    As well, I am going to analyze the specifications of all chargers, not just the one that SPX carries, because I intend to completely know every characteristic possible of the Volt, the charger, as well as the type of datum that will be shared out.

    Since I have had a long term business relationship with SPX and the Genisys, I may decide that additional corporate involvement by SPX into or onto any of my premises may not be desirable (just a little too much, if you will), as datum is associated there, and, due to privacy issues that have clearly been directly and corporately spoken to me, as questionable from my exclusive personal perspective, I would decline the SPX option here, but just for *my* particular viewpoint for me only, as a conflict of privacy interest. This viewpoint would not relate or apply to anyone else as far as I know.

    However, SPX does in fact make the very finest of diagnostic equipment in the World,
    *****by a light year!!*****


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    Money Business :

     

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    Oct 27th, 2010 (2:48 pm)

    electrical supplies are always available in our local hardware dealer at a discounted price::,


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    Electrician Seattle

     

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    Oct 29th, 2010 (4:19 pm)

    Super post. Bless you for sharing it.

    With respect,
    Bob
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