The GM-Volt Want List has a storied past. For those that don’t know, I started the list in May 2007 as the Chevy Volt Wait List. The plan at the time was to create a list of people in chronological order who wanted to own a Chevy Volt. At that time the car was still a concept and had yet to be redesigned, engineered, or validated. It was my idea if the list were significant enough though, GM would have to take notice and build the car.
The list grew and it grew and it grew. I remember dreaming that some way somehow some day that list could even reach the magical number of 50,000 people. Early this year it did.
Though I had hoped GM would one day use that list as a real chronological pre-order list, that never came to pass. Chevrolet marketing had their own plans, of which we are now well aware. Volts would be allocated to dealers in at first a few launch markets, in small numbers, and gradually be rolled out across the country over 18 months. Dealers would take their own local wait lists.
Along the way GM also asked me to change the name, and so was born the GM-Volt Want List.
I recently took an email survey of those 52,800+ members to learn more about them, and present the results.
Of the 52,825 people on the list, 4689 took the survey, a rate of 8.9%. Forty percent said they were still equally interested in the Volt as when they joined the list, 27% were more interested, and 32% said they were less interested. More than one quarter (27%) said they checked GM-Volt.com daily or one or twice per week. Forty percent said they checked in once per month and 31% said they checked in less than once per month.
Forty percent of respondents said they live in one of the seven launch markets, with the remaining 60% of respondents distributed throughout the remaining 43 states, Canada, and elsewhere.
Only 4% (188) of respondents said they already ordered a Volt, but an additional 40% said they hadn’t yet ordered but planned to. An majority of 55% said they didn’t plan to order a Volt.
Eighty percent of respondents said they only checked GM-Volt.com for Volt news, 19% said they also checked other sites for information.
These results are quite interesting but also illustrate that only about 1 in 10 people on the list who live in launch markets have actually ordered a Volt so far, though forty percent of the whole group still plans to order one.
GM claims they have over 100,000 hand-raisers on their official interest list, and only plan to build 10,000 cars in the first year. If a similar 1 to 10 ratio holds for them too, it would mean Volts are unlike to have sold out yet, but that after all is said and done, demand may outstrip supply by four to one.
For its part, Nissan has been more quantitative about its list of LEAF buyers. Earlier this week they announced that reservations were closed as 20,000 people in the US have put down a $99 deposit for the car. Nissan only plans a sales volume of 20,000 cars in North America in the first year. It isn’t known how may of those 20,000 have actually ordered, or actually ever will, and many live out of the launch markets. It will take Nissan another year or more from the December launch to roll cars out to the whole country, and in many places orders won’t be taken until 2011.
Nissan EV marketing director Mark Perry told GM-Volt reservations were converting to orders rapidly. We are “seeing very high conversion rate from reservation to order,” said Perry. This is to be “expected given California, Washington, Oregon and Tennessee incentive levels.”
GM won’t say how many Volt orders they have. Sources say it wouldn’t make sense for GM to announce those numbers; if they were low they would be criticized for not selling out, if they were high they would be criticized for not building enough.
Now that the Want List is fading in importance, it is time to begin a Volt Owners Community. There is already a Volt Ownership Forum whose members, discussions and features will grow exponentially in the coming months, and which will soon take a greater role on the front page of this site.
Please register for the GM-Volt forum and participate if you don’t already.
And if you have ordered a Volt, please enter your information below to be kept abreast of GM-Volt owner features as they become available. You will then be included in a new Volt Owners List. Your information will be private, managed only by me. You may review our privacy policy here.
This entry was posted on Sunday, September 26th, 2010 at 12:01 am and is filed under Volt Nation. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:35 am)wow posted early in the morning today
+5
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:51 am)How about a Volt MPV5 Want List?
I would be on that like would be on that like white on rice.
Or a Called Dealership Interested In Leasing But Credit Score Not Perfect Enough Volt Want List.
Unfortunately on that one I would add myself, too.
+4
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:12 am)The amount of people on the list that have ordered or say they will order is way higher than I thought it would be.
Ya gotta remember that the list was started 3-1/2 years ago. I don’t know about anybody else, but, I can’t concentrate (ADD I guess) on anything that long. I’m sure there are a bunch of people that don’t have the same email address either.
Did facebook and twitter even exist that long ago? If they did, I wasn’t aware of them in 2006/7.
The first iPhone was introduced on January 9, 2007. This site was registered the very next day. On January 4th, 2007, I started the job I have right now.
A lot has happened in the last few years and we are only a couple weeks away from Job 1!
Thanks Lyle for the creation, care and feeding of your site and her participants.
/btw Lyle, registration expires in January 2011. tick tock.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:14 am)Any idea what one’s FICO score has to be to lease? That’d be good information to have. Credit Scores can be fixed just like anything else. Surely you don’t need absolutely perfect (like more than 760) to qualify for a lease.
+5
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:17 am)“A majority of 55% said they didn’t plan to order a Volt.” Over half have changed their mind, probably due to excessive price tag and also many decided to go with the Leaf instead.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:59 am)dam i posted in wrong spot, where did that post go?
anyway, what i posted was:
i am surprised to find that 60% of people who took this survey were from outside the U.S, like myself. most people i talk to here in Australia are hearing about it for the first time off me!
also why are 55% of the people taking the survey not planning on ever owing one?
what gives?
stuey
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:04 am)My feeling is that if the Volt was priced on the low end. And both State and Federal credits applied. That at least half of the wait list would buy. We now know that most State credits don’t apply. And that the price is just over the high end of the expected range. Our economy isn’t fully recoverd. And a barrel of oil is still under $90. With this being said, 1 in 5 is a good number of buyers. And 1 in 4 is fantastic. The 2011 Volt may be going through the most intense engineering effort GM has ever put forth on a new model. I ordered my Volt the first week in August and eagerly await delivery in January 2011.
=D-Volt
+12
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:26 am)Yes I have ordered a Volt from a roll out market to make sure I do get one. I don’t want it to turn out like the EV-1 where I wanted one but by the time I found out about the car production had already stopped and I was not in a roll out area anyway. The price tag of the Volt is past the very upper limits of what I thought I could ever afford as I have previously mentioned. In fact I will decide for sure in February 2011 giving my dealer time to reassign my Volts production spot in March to another interested purchaser of greater means if my decision goes that way.
I am also one who reads every day and if I miss a few days I return to those postings and at least read the information/stories. I find them interesting, educational and appreciate the feeling of belonging to a group of interested individuals.
Thank You Lyle for all your efforts and also to those who OP/ED’
Take Care,
TED
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:18 am)60% of the people responding were located outside of the handful of initial US release market cities. This number would include folks like me located in the US outside of these release cities as well as any foreign responders.
+6
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:36 am)Wow, Lyle, all these site changes must really keep you busy. Do you have time to tend to your “Real job”? Thanks for all this effort. You have been keeping this volt nation better informed than the dealers! I am sorry that GM blew your Want List off. I hope GM gets their act together and recognizes all you do for them. You’ve been cheering for them all the way through their bankruptcy. Your enthusiasm and conviction has given us the confidence to keep up the faith and make our investment into the Volt. I worry about GM long-term, but for now, I’m happy the Volt is in production.
I ordered my Volt on August 6th with a Washington area dealer. My dealer says that I’m number 1 in their allocations, but they can’t be sure of a delivery date. You and Corvette Guy have been most helpful and informative during this whole process. When we worked through the ordering process, I already had the color and options information thanks to you guys. Keep it going!
I registered on the volt owners forum and look forward to celebrating with fellow owners. I have faith that the comments will be more open and honest than on GM’s site.
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:58 am)Somehow I missed out on getting to participate in the survey and sure thought I was on the original Wait List. I am a Texan that has my Volt order number in hand. I read here two or three times a day. I do visit other Volt sites. Lyle thanks so much for the effort you put into this. I can’t wait until the time rolls around we can start comparing notes on the Volt’s that are sitting in our garages.
Jerry
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:19 am)Prurient curiosity(?)(lol) keeps me coming back daily but while I can’t say I am on the verge of buying one soon as my current auto is quite sufficient, I can say I will seriously consider the Volt when that time comes(I am hoping, however, that is still a few years away–say 2014 or so).
At that time I will consider the Volt against the competition, in which I include BEVs. If their range has been extended(pun intended), my driving needs are such that if the cost differential is sufficiently high, I would rent an ICE(or a Volt if Hertz, etc. has them by then) for the 2 or 3 times a year I might need a range of say, over 200 miles(obviously assuming BEV’s actually have that range by then).
I certainly plan to assiduously continue reading this post and other similar ones in the years ahead as they all promise a revolution in transportation if they are as successful as the most sanguine among you hope.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:29 am)No Volts available in Ohio.
I hate being a second class GM citizen……………..
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:39 am)A touch OT but after coming here first I turned to NYTimes, and found Friedman lamenting China’s Moon Shot w/ EV’s vs. America’s Moon Shot w/ Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/opinion/26friedman.html
And once again, the point most of us know backwards and forwards–roughly 75% of the price of every barrel of oil is being shipped out of our economy to subsidize Eco Cities in Saudia, nuclear development in Iran, Tar Sands degradation in Canada, etc., etc., etc.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:50 am)Kind of hard for potential buyers to commit to the car when there’s still some huge gaping holes in the spec sheet.
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:11 am)Good point. I also wondered about this. I cannot afford to buy a car, so I did not sign up on the list, but I suspect some people signed up without intent to purchase just to inflate the demand. Despite my not being in the car market I am keenly interested in this website because the Volt and other BEVs represent a path to get off oil dependence and reduce CO2 in the air. I am also interested in new technology and like to understand how things work.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:21 am)What huge gaping holes? The only missing spec is CS mileage, and we have been told several times it will be about 50mpg and requires premium gas. This makes a cost equivalent of about 42 mpg with regular gas. Naturally this number may vary slightly, but as many have pointed out a few percent variation is insignificant given most driving will be on the battery only. I know some detractors have been claiming about 30 mpg but they are in no position to back up their claim. You probably have learned more about the Volt from reading this site than any car you have owned!
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:33 am)Lyle, thinking about CS mileage, I think you should use your contacts at GM to clear up the confusion that we were told the Volt uses premium gas, and the order sheet says flex-fuel and regular gas. This is a serious blunder. Either they were lying to us about the premium gas, or there was some incompetence in listing the gas on the order sheet. If the order sheet is wrong, then this looks bad on GM’s quality control, what else is wrong?
Please make steps to resolve this issue.
+4
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:42 am)It’s been a fun ride these past 3 1/2 years. Thank you Lyle for providing this forum so we can discuss, debate and beat to death every little morsel of information on the volt that you reported on. This is truly a great site.
I am looking forward to what the site has to offer in the future, and thanks again for offering the stage to me yesterday.
-20
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:46 am)(click to show comment)
+4
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:01 am)Would love to be on the owners list, but since the original list was created, I retired from work and drive far less. Rather than having a VOLT sitting and charging for maybe 4000 miles of yearly use, someone else should order. It’s one more VOLT for those who hopefully plan to charge twice a day and drive 80 gas free miles daily. 29,200 gas free miles a year will really make a difference in oil consumption.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:34 am)My order sheet was updated yesterday to say:
Powertrain
Electric Drive Unit
16 kWh lithium-ion battery
Range Extender. 1.4L Internal Combustion Engine
I think the tracking site is still going through growing pains until it is working 100%, but it does seem they fixed the flex fuel misinformation.
+5
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:34 am)I thought that I was pretty typical, but maybe not. I was made aware of this site by my nephew who to a strong interest in the Volt from the time that the concept car was unveiled. It was kind of ho hum to me at the time. But once in a great while (maybe every two weeks) he would point me to a posting. At that time I noticed something odd. The articles were not particularly long, but each day the comments were voluminous. And informative. And well reasoned. And not just factual. Time passed. My interest steadily increased. I joined the “want list” at about 49,000. I paid for a pre-order at a dealership in Ohio that claimed to have an allocation, but did not (got it back). Now I have a real order at a dealership in Sterling Heights, MI (same place as Ted from Fort Meyers). Yes, I check this site about 4 times a day. Lyle must infuse the text with something that gives off an addicting radiation. I now consider Volt ownership a responsibility, a soon-to-be adventure, and yes, a bit of a financial burden, but one that I hope will benefit many others. Yes, I’ve signed up for the new list.
Oh, and my nephew, Mark, has also ordered a Volt.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:37 am)Because GM knew it would be 189 when they announced 10,000 cars the first year of production… /sarcasm
Do you think before you type? Or is it just a stream of nonsensical consciousness?
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:38 am)One of “the other” sites that I check regularly. Why? It is not supposed to change (much), but heck, it is a thing like waiting for Santa Claus, but also $44,000 (taxes). Also, the Camarotracking site.
+14
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:43 am)$2,500 down and $350 per month will buy you a car with a selling price of about $23,300.00 so for those who really want the $41,000 Volt, a lease makes sense.
Once GM provides more specifics about the lease program and puts that info into a tv commercial, then I believe the orders will start coming in faster. Many here have stated their apprehension about v.1.0 of the Volt. Leasing gives you the opportunity to give the car a 36 month test drive. If you really like it, buy a new one or buy the one you have by paying the residual. Go for it.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:46 am)Exactly my thinking on the whole situation.
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:46 am)There probably is SOME of that, but be kind; this is a place where we express opinions, not just facts. That posting was mildly offensive to me as well, but that’s just the way things are. It is more of a gut reaction (as you said, “stream of consciousness”). One thing that probably needs to be pointed out is that besides people that are on the wait list here, there are others willing to buy Volts. This is an important venue, but not the only one. There are guys at work waiting to see what I learn, but they don’t lurk here. We are representatives. Even if we don’t buy.
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:52 am)A question for CorvetteGuy (or anyone else that cares). I have nearly enough cash in my piggy bank to pay for the Volt. But am in the process of changing to a different financial manager for IRA’s etc. That person wants me to have a bigger cash reserve for handling potential emergencies. She suggested keeping a good bit of that piggy bank for the cash reserve and using a loan for part of the balance on the Volt, especially if there is a 0% loan available. So, first, is there a 0 % loan available. Any thoughts?
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:55 am)As was the EV1 project, the Volt is a landmark project for GM. Of course it is going to cost a lot of money to get new auto technology out to the public but it was all done in the past which made the companies wealthy. This was accomplished often without bail-out or government seed money.
GM needs to get the Volt out without a lot of discussion and make sure there are plenty of them to be demonstrated for the public. GM is looking at a gloomy picture without the public even seeing the product. Less than 1 percent of the public has seen one in person let alone drive one. Computer and occasional TV doesn’t count to show the public what is available if you want to sell something new and dynamic.
Stop with the computer surveys of who is going to buy one an go out a sell the VOLTEC. That is, do what GM did in the forties when they would take truck loads to towns for exhibit(s).
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:55 am)The full effects of the recession weren’t known 3 years ago when these lists were started. Of course the number today is smaller. If the Volt had arrived in showrooms 36 months ago, there would be plenty of them in our used lot… Reposessed from everyone who lost their jobs. We still have 12% unemployment here. That ‘Faith and Hope’ crap hasn’t helped around here yet.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:56 am)I know…it just gets to me when you hear something so illogical, I have to respond, lol.
+8
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:01 am)BEFORE GETTING MARKED DOWN AS A TROLL (BECAUSE I AM NOT), RESPOND TO THE STATED CHALLENGES. I BELIEVE THEY ARE REAL AND I HOPE GM HAS NOT BET THE FARM ON VOLTEC EXCLUSIVELY. I PAY TAXES AND WANT GM TO PROSPER.
“GM won’t say how many Volt orders they have. Sources say it wouldn’t make sense for GM to announce those numbers; if they were low they would be criticized for not selling out, if they were high they would be criticized for not building enough.”
The facts are the facts….. GM has been advertising this product in print and in broadcast, dealers are taking orders, and the assembly line is running. What’s the cloak and dagger secrecy about?
GM had no problem boasting about the number of Camaro orders INITIALLY received
I’ll go on record and speak truth to power
PROS
1) The Volt is a strong engineering feat
2) I think it looks good inside and out
BUT
1) There is not a large market for a 41-45k compact for any manufacturer
2) Gasoline prices (at the moment) are stable, therefore fuel savings is not a high priority unless that changes
3) The US economy is still in a SLOW recovery if not recession
4) There are numerous alternative vehicles in the market to reduce overall fuel consumption
5) GM has not had time to PROVE to the consumer that the product matches the rhetoric (mileage, savings, reliability, quality, resale value, etc.)
THEREFORE
1) Sales will be lower than expected
2) The car will be a niche vehicle
3) GM will face stiff competition from the Germans and Koreans who can fund BEV/Hybrid/EREV R and D from strong profits from across their entire product lines
If and only if fuel prices in the US and globally spike by 20-30% over the next 12-18 months and STAY THERE or and oil embargo from Saudi Arabia and Canada will the Volt becomes a sales success. Lutz has said in many interviews that the lack of a national fuel policy and roller coaster fuel prices makes it difficult to provide customers the cars they want AND NEED.
I think technically GM has provided a new drivetrain option and should be applauded.
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:04 am)Indeed, I just checked mine and they have simplified that specification.
My CamaroTracking info still reports an order status code of 1100 — “Vehicle being produced” on the Chevy site. However late last week a few guys (e.g. Patrick Wang) started seeing their numbers move to 2000, meaning that the dealer had received its first allocation slots from GM and assigned one of those allocation slots to those buyers. So hopefully the rest of us buyers will see similar activity this week!
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:06 am)Darpa #33, pretty good points. Not much to criticise.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:12 am)Honestly, I don’t think they have done much in this department yet. I have yet to see a single Volt commercial on TV. No where NEAR the amount other cars get. I’m sure they will turn on the advertising faucet soon.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:17 am)Here we go already. Just ignore them.
It takes a ‘special’ person to constantly dis Volt buyers and enthusiasts on a Volt forum. Some kind of S&M gamer I’m thinking.
Just vote (-1) and move on. Nothing to see here.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:27 am)This is where the early adopter steps in. Get the first 10,000 Volts on the road ASAP. Measure consumer interest. Build at least 45,000 2012 Volts. This is what GM is doing.
If the Volt were the equivalent of a 100 MPG Accord I would be willing to spend $30,000 for it. From what I have seen in the three Volt car shows I have attended. This car is a closer match to a high end luxury sedan. Styling, quiet comfort, and power. The Volt does better than BMW in MPG, price, and smoothness. With several high end and high tech features included. The total cost of my Volt is $39,000 (OTD after tax credit). Sure, that’s a good amount of money. But would I switch for a 2011 Honda Accord 4dr EX sedan? With a 6 cylinder engine delivering 19 city / 29 highway @ MSRP $32,380.00
$32,380 + 10% = OTD $35,618
You kidding me?
=D-Volt
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:43 am)1) Size wise, the Accord has a full-size interior
2) The Accord is a multi-generation vehicle with a provide track record. The Volt is not.
3) Some will buy the VOLT solely because the want one. Early adopters are like “preaching to the choir”. Let’s see the strategy for getting someone to NOT BUY a redesigned Civic, redesigned Elantra, redesigned and lower priced VW Jetta INSTEAD OF A Volt and use the money saved to easily pay for the difference in fuel consumption.
What BMW product are you comparing the Volt to? There is no production BMW product sold in the US in the VOLT product segment.
The VOLT is not nor will ever be a challenge product to a BMW. BMW’s Active E 1 series pilot will begin soon and I will eat crow if proven wrong!!!!
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:51 am)“The total cost of my Volt is $39,000 (OTD after tax credit). ”
Unless one plans to lease the Volt (GM takes the $7500 tax credit and subvents the lease) please explain how someone purchasing a VOLT will be able to get that tax credit to factor into the OTD price you obtained.
Also, everyone wanting to lease won’t be able to due to lease underwriting criteria which is typically higher than a purchase price (because customer tend to put less/no money down than the expected 10% LTV).
Finally, the $7,500 tax CREDIT is not forever. When it expires, the full cost of the vehicle will be borne by the purchaser resulting in a much higher lease/purchase payment. Percentage-wise, the Volt is clearly more dependent on the tax incentives to move the car off the lot than the lower hybrid/diesel tax incentives.
+7
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:00 am)The fact is: I, for one, haven’t seen a single TV commercial or heard a single radio spot or seen a single newspaper ad for Volt.
I think it is way premature to speculate about Volt’s sales volume at this point. Other than very early adopters (the sight-unseen buyers), most people need to see and drive a car before making a final decision. As many others, I think Volt’s demand will far outstrip GM’s ability to build them quickly.
As far as comparison to any other car, like Camaro, Volt is a whole new ballgame. GM is a large corporation with a conservative business plan. They are not a start-up. A conservative roll-out is expected. This is not an iPod or other small build. It’s a huge risk.
$40k cars are not all that uncommon. (My current car’s sticker was over $38k 4 years ago.) I don’t see price or gasoline cost as a driving factor in this market sector. Gasoline consumption, however, may be a factor for some customers. Many with that mindset post here regularly.
I’m not an early adopter. I study my next vehicle years in advance and usually purchase a clean used copy. (Although I do splurge and buy new on occasion. Volt in SS trim would get me there.) I study everything including insurance rates before purchase.
All this adds up to: I want a Volt as my next car.
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:00 am)How about I go 5 mins down the road and check for you?
Slightly related note:
“Destination & Delivery” fees are bullshit.
You can order a Camaro here and (some) dealers still charge the full amount. Even though they’re driven ~5km from the plant to the dealer vs ~5000km from across the continent for other models.
At least locals are in a bargaining position.. “no thanks, I’ll pick it up myself” :p
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:02 am)If you’re in NA and haven’t seen it, you must not watch much tv. The tv commercials started like a year ago. Even here in Canada, and we don’t get it at initial launch (in the commercial, the line at the bottom is modified to “coming 2011″ instead of 2010 and of course it states 65 km per charge instead of miles).
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:05 am)Eric, while I am skeptical on how well the car will sell in the current economics (Low gas price / Employment uncertainty), you obviously did not read the survey.
First, only 9% of the list took the survey (which is typical). 4% (189) are confirmed. Another 40% (1647) plan to, however the car is most likely not available in their area. That would mean approximately 23,000 are spoken for. That get’s them into year two when the car will become widely available. 4 years from now the answer will be clear as to winners and losers. Stay Tuned!
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:07 am)Decent points, not a troll….
Not quite an accurate representation: the $7,500 credit puts the Volt closer to territory occupied by many cars including a fully equipped Prius….
Worthy points for buyers to consider.
This point is weak because none of these vehicles can come close to matching the Volt’s extreme miserly fuel consumption potential. Furthermore, the non-hybrid ICE vehicles with the best fuel consumption, being substantially smaller and less comfortable than the Volt, are really not good comparisons to the Volt.
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:08 am)Interesting logic. Actually it’s 45% of those responding say they have ordered or will order. If you’ve paid any attention there are several examples of the latter on this board — tagament and nasaman being two that come readily to mind.
Don’t fear. GM will sell far more Volts in the first few years than Toyota sold Prius’ in its first few years. If GM ups production — which is what it should have done in the first place — and cuts the price (or gets the lease program going) — which will follow naturally — the comparative ramp ups won’t even be close.
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:09 am)It is true. The $7,500 is NOT a Rebate applied at the time of purchase. It is a ‘Tax Credit’ which can be very beneficial for persons generally in the income/tax bracket who will be buying a Volt. You can download the form and read the IRS info here:
http://www.allnewchevyvolt.com/federaltaxcredits.html
I wish it were a direct Rebate. Also, unless there is serious backing from Washington, I can almost guarantee there will not be any Zero Percent purchase financing either. The 2010 Camaro and Equinox still do no have 0.00% APR available and it is clearance time right now. If they were going to give it, we would have it by now.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:12 am)I’ve seen some GM commercials that the Volt played a bit role in but not one yet that has featured it. Come to think of it, I believe I’ve only seen one Cruze commercial so far. The lack of Volt commercials doesn’t bother me though since they would be a waste of money until 2012 MY production and full rollout is near.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:12 am)What commercial have you been seeing? The only one I have ever seen was on the internet, and I never actually saw it on TV. [the one with just the sound of the wind, with the rolling green hills]
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:16 am)The last cell I bought had a rebate (yeah, not a tax credit, so, not exactly the same). The OTD price I told my wife was including the rebate. Most people think and act this way.
If you time it right, the tax credit will be available within the same timeframe as the first payment. Making it perfectly ok to tell the wife the OTD price inclusive. It’s all the same pot-o-financials.
Technically, you’re correct. Real life, however, has some fudge factors.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:21 am)If the Volt Lease payment is $350, and you save at least $100 per month on gasoline, are you really having a problem with that $250 ‘out of pocket’ concept? Really?
+17
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:21 am)Thank you Tom. And thanks for your great article, I thought the poll results were very interesting. Not as much “give me EREV only” as I would have thought.
And thanks to all the readers of this site, without you all I never would have been able to make it this far and for all these years.
Getting Volts very very soon.
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:25 am)Read your prior posts on the site and thanks in advance for the info…
Does that $350 per month lease include taxes and title?
1) what options are included in the lease amount?
2) can I roll any additional dealer “market adjustments” (if the dealer adds them) into the lease payment?
3) Is the $350 per month lease available to purchasers with a 650 FICO score?
4) Will I need to provide the 1st months payment in addition to the required cash/down payment that is tied to the $350 payment quoted?
5) Would approx. $1,500 – $2,000 in options change the lease pymt by more than $50 dollars?
-6
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:52 am)I just did the same math. That is a truly staggeringly bad number given the “enthusaists” who make up the Want List.
I have to assume that most people who had bought the Volt would have taken the time to respond to the survey.
I think this shows the reality that the Volt may be good enough for just about anyone, but there is probably a better car for just about everyone.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:05 pm)I am one of those who is not on the “want list” but who has an order in for a Volt. Mine is a combination of “ef opec” and early-adopter syndrome. I’ll probably be one of those who has the “stale fuel burn” feature happen, sonce I drive fairly short distances, and it will be a second car (replacing my gas-hog BMW 7-series).
+6
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:13 pm)The decision by gm to say no to a list of 50,000 highly interested people will be discussed in business schools in marketing courses as a classic error. Presumably that happened because the unending turnover of marketing leadership at gm made any alternative beyond the “same old thing” impractical. It’s a shame, because some number of people on the list had money in hand to pay for a Volt, had made the decision to purchase a Volt, and would have been great cheer-leaders for the product.
But gm had to do things their own traditional way, and many of those wannabe buyers have by necessity thought about the realistic situation with the uncertain timetable of when, if ever, Volt would be for sale in their own market areas. I think that in many cases people have moved on with some other automotive plan or purchase, and as with Leaf often non-gm, in part out of frustration. That’s not to say they think Volts have become bad cars or will never consider Volt or some descendant in some future year, but gm has let these customers move from the category of committed fanboys and girls, with cash, into the ‘maybe someday’ group, who gm will have to re-engage in some later year. This has just not been a very smart marketing plan by gm.
+5
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:15 pm)GM has not sent any specifics on the program, but here are my answers:
(From the Chevrolet website) “Tax, Title, License and Dealer Fees extra”. I would estimate the total minimum lease payment at $425
1) The Base Lease is for the Base car. If you want options, payment goes up a few bucks or you put a little more down.
2) You can roll anything into the payment, but the payment goes up.
3) No info yet on FICO requirements for this specific program. Most top tier lease programs start at 720 from what I have heard.
4) No.
5) Don’t kill the messenger. I just sell the things. I don’t make the rules.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:17 pm)It’s really 189 out of 4689, not 189 out of 52,800.
Which translates to 4% of those who took the survey have ordered their Volts.
4% of an annual car market of 10,000,000 total units would be….. 400,000.
But GM is not producing 400,000 Volts next year, not even close – no, there will be only 2.5% of that figure available to buy.
Second year production is scheduled to be 45,000- still far shy of a sales potential of 400,000 units. The bar of success for the Volt is not as lofty as some detractors seem to believe.
-4
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:35 pm)I read the survey data. You (and Lyle) are making a giant leap of faith in presuming that the intentions of the survey respondents match the other 90% that did not respond. Even if you presume that the ‘intend to buy in the future’ number at face value, and further assume that the GM held list is as good as this forum list, you are under 5000 cars with reasonably serious interested buyers if we ignore the group who did not bother to answer the second survey. Who knows how many of the ‘committed’ group will end up not buying due to inadequate credit, or a host of other reasons ?
Time will tell, of course, but these numbers are a whole lot worse than I guessed, and as you know I think the Volt is a stillborn dud because of the price.
-6
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:45 pm)What error ? Demand exceeding supply is appearing to be a pipe dream. Looks to me like GM plans to put a couple a couple thousand Volts in dealer showrooms as a halo car and call it a day.
-7
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:54 pm)“you save at least $100 per month on gasoline,”
I see arithmetic is not your strong suit. The Volt *might* defer up to 1000 miles a month in petrol.
$100 is 10000 cents, divided by 1000 miles is 10 cents/mile. I currently pay about 5 cents/mile and do not pay electric fees on the miles that will accrue with the Volt.
So your *at least $100 a month” is $30 a month in my case — in a fairly ideal scenario of no CS mode use.
Do you really tell that nonsense to customers ?
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (12:58 pm)I think you make some very good points describing Gen 1 and I don’t disagree but I see it with a bit more optimism because the Volt and its tech are amazing and that will fuel desire.
1. I think there will be plenty of early adopters to soak up the small Gen 1 production.
2. By Gen 2 the price will be lower and the Volt will be well known (more desire).
3. GM, being first out of the gate will have a perception advantage even when competition arrives.
4. It certainly appears the Volt quality standard bar is set pretty high and other car manufacturers will have some catching up to do.
Also, 10,000 and 45,000 initial Volt production doesn’t sound like betting the whole farm on voltec to me and GM is wisely diversifying with a competitive economy Cruze, further hybrid offerings as well as traditional larger ICE vehicles that still sell well and make a profit. They are positioned better than ever before to handle market uncertainty but with an eye to the future. I believe voltec will have its day and when that day arrives it will be more like an avalanche. I’m just glad GM has taken this step.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:02 pm)Oops. Missed that one. $30 to $40 sounds about right, but you could always put just a little more down instead.
-5
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:06 pm)No, it means that GM has had at least some clue how many cars they will have serious buyers for, and now we do too.
I am curious if the horrible numbers reflect on massive drop-out of interest because of the chasm between between promise and delivery, or if it is in general true that only a tiny fraction of vocal and engaged internet supporters tend to become actual customers.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:25 pm)Welcome!
+6
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:36 pm)The first 40 miles is gasoline free x 365 days =14,600 miles.
The average car in the same size/class as the Volt does 30 mpg.
14,000 / 30 = 486.67 gallons of gas x $3.09 per gallon (it’s high in Southern California)
= $1,503.80 in gas divided by 12 months = $125.32 in gasoline savings per month.
Of course, if you charge your Volt while at work and double the AER per day then your savings would be more. And I also take it one step further > If you drive 15000 miles in one year, then only 400 of those miles has been with the ICE Gen running. So, 400 miles / 34 mpg in CS Mode = 11.76 gallons of gas… IN ONE YEAR! That is equal to 1/2 tank of gas in my current car.
Yep. That is what I tell my customers.
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:37 pm)Looks like EricLG is a “stealthy troll”. Sounded a little bit realistic at first. Not so much once it all is added together.
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:40 pm)Any thoughts on my question to you in #29?
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:48 pm)Let’s review for our math-challenged friends:
Every VOLT customer will see a different amount of savings depending on how far they drive EACH DAY after a full overnight charge. If you drive about 40 miles or less per day you will not be using any gas (except for the nominal amount for EMM). If you typically drive 60 miles per day, you would average a little over 101 miles per gallon. If it’s 100 miles per day, you still are averaging 56.50 miles-per-gallon.
And with one of the longest lists of standard interior features, it will be an enjoyable commute every day!
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:49 pm)as much difficulty as i’ve had placing an order, i’ve seen nothing to suggest that gm is short on orders for the volt relative to supply. of course, gm may also be encountering unanticipated production challenges as well.
as to your points, if the volt is not considered to be a niche vehicle, sales will be lower than expected. but in my opinion, the volt is a 1st generation vehicle, so it is effectively a niche vehicle by definition. but that is true of all electric vehicles at this point. it also goes without saying that there will be competition in the electric vehicle segment. there is segmentation between those who want bev versus erev and there will be competition on the basis of available ev range. one of the dangers is that some makers will undoubtedly oversell their vehicles with overly optimistic specifications, which will put other makers under pressure to do the same. for example, it is my suspicion that gm has been a lot more conservative in how their specifications for the volt than nissan has with the leaf.
any way you cut it, the current generation of cars will be relatively expensive, niche vehicles. before any of these vehicles are mass market ready, there will have to be improvements in battery range and available charging infrastructure. at present the erev is the closest thing to being a mass market ready vehicle. bev is pretty much in the “second car”/”commuter car” niche right now.
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:56 pm)Well, unless there is government intervention, I don’t see a 0.00% APR Purchase Loan coming at all. So your Loan Rate is whatever you qualify for. The Lease Program is going to be very popular, but I don’t know what the minimum requirements are for that… yet. I hope they give us more info on that on Launch Day.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (1:57 pm)I suggest a slightly different graph. Make the X axis gallons of gas consumed. May be call it the axis of evil
Have 3 bars for each miles travelled scenario – one for Volt, one for Prius and the other for “typical” 20 mpg car.
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:09 pm)LOL, axis of evil. +1
join thE REVolution
-9
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:11 pm)“The first 40 miles is gasoline free x 365 days =14,600 miles.
The average car in the same size/class as the Volt does 30 mpg.
14,000 / 30 = 486.67 gallons of gas x $3.09 per gallon (it’s high in Southern California)
= $1,503.80 in gas divided by 12 months = $125.32 in gasoline savings per month.”
GM itself has said 40 AER in gentle driving, moderate conditions. Try low 30′s AER for ‘typical’
What average car seats only 4 ? I was using Prius because both cars decrease petrol use.
Now, you forgot to include the cost of electricity, and *more* expensive CS mode costs.
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:13 pm)On a lease of 3 years you can ball park it at an extra $30 per $1k added to the lease. This lease has $2500 down including the sec dep. so if that is about $500 (that you get back) you are putting $2k to cap cost reduction and GM is putting down $7500 for you. If you want you can pay for the taxes and tags up front or roll them in the lease. They can’t put them in as every local has different taxes. Same for optional equipment add about $30 per $1k. If the taxes are $3k and you add $2k of extra equipment add $150 to the lease or put it down. We have to wait for GM to give us the residual value and money factor to properly evaluate this lease.
What you have to put down is determined by your credit history so if it is good you can decide what you want to do and only put down first and sec if you want and even roll the $2k in.
-1
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:19 pm)“i’ve seen nothing to suggest that gm is short on orders for the volt relative to supply”
Once again… begs the question “Why is GM reluctant to share how many orders it has taken from individuals (not fleet/gov sales)?”
hint hint… If I were putting forward an IPO, I WOULD NOT want to release figures that were lower than the already revised lower production volumes. On the other hand, if orders well exceeded production volumes for 2010-2012, I WOULD SURELY put that information out for public consumption. It could only help the IPO.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:25 pm)You’re not keeping up with news on this site. 50 AER is for the gentle-driving hypermilers. 40 is now a solid expectation except in extreme cold conditions or driving with your foot to the floor all of the time. (Which I plan to try when the demo gets here!)
The ‘Driving Miss Daisy’ Prius is the car that has to be driven slowly or the gas engine kicks in all of the time. You can drive the Volt like a bat out of hell until the battery runs out… THEN the generator comes online. The Volt is going to be a LOT MORE FUN to own and drive! Get used to it.
-2
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:25 pm)could you explain what “dealer fees” means? in a lease are you financing (meaning, paying interest on) the entire price of the car or just the difference between the sale price and the residual price?
-2
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:26 pm)Well, if the assumed interest rate is 5% then the residual has been set at ~ $30,400.
Joke of the day, that is.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:27 pm)We weren’t talking about the cost of electricity, which is another variable all over the country. We were talking about how much you save on gasoline.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:28 pm)What car are you driving now? 5 cents per mile for fuel is 60 MPG at $3.00 gas Not many cars out there that do that . My car now gets about 20 MPG overall city/hwy so I pay about 15 cents and at 12 cents per kwh I will pay 2.4 cents for my ev miles and most will be ev.
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:33 pm)I’m not the leasing expert. One of the other guys who posts here might chime in. He knows more about them. “Dealer Fees” varies depending on who you talk to. Sometimes it means the same as “Dealer Addendum” (Markup over MSRP). Sometimes it means “Dealer Installed Options”. These things can be added into your Lease Payment.
-3
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:33 pm)i wouldn’t promote that 50 mile figure until you know how it was derived. that was a figure for a financial disclosure statement, so you don’t know if the figure was derived based on theoretical model or whether it was a best case figure. some guy got 311 miles on a single charge in a tesla roadster but i suspect that was a one-off result that you’re not likely to see repeated anytime soon.
-7
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:35 pm)Is that supposed to make any kind of sense ? I notice you are happy to use SoCal petrol rates, even though the price varies throughout the country.
As for Volt AER, read again what Rob Peterson said ” We’ve always said up to 40,” said Peterson. Now we “tweaked the EV range to from 25 to 50.”
Peterson explains that GM now has over one million engineering miles with Chevrolet Volt test cars and they are very comfortable with this range which is based on that experience.
He points out some drivers will achieve more than 40 miles of range. “A conservative driver under ideal conditions will get more than 40 miles,” he said. “We don’t often highlight this potential to go beyond 40″
Peterson also says the 25 mile range is “pretty darn close” to the worst case scenario. This would be extreme cold temperatures, with the cabin heating system at full blast driven by a very aggressive driver going mostly uphill. ”
* UP TO 40 AER
* A conservative driver under ideal conditions will get more than 40 miles. What does that tell you about less than ideal conditions with a “normal” driver ?
* 25 miles in cold winter.
I like the “mostly uphill” BS. If I gain 1 cm in elevation over my drive, I have gone “mostly uphill,” haven’t I ?
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:41 pm)Dealer fees could mean the dealer charges for extra profit also all leases have a fee called acquisition fee that is usually about $600
In a lease you pay for depreciation on part of the car and interest called a money factor. If you know the money factor just multiply by 2400 and you get the interest rate. We still need to know what the money factor is and what the residual value at lease end will be. The higher the res values the lower the part of the car you will have to pay for and the lease is lower but if you buy at the end the higher the buy will be. It will be very interesting to see what GM has done to get this lease to $350
-5
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:45 pm)Only one car has any chance of averaging 60 mpg that is on the market today, the Prius. And it is not at all common in the Prius either. I personally average 60 mpg, but my wife works to average 50 mpg so the car ends up at about 55 since we share its use about equally. Petrol yesterday was $2.63. 263/55 = 4.78 cents a mile. I rounded up to 5 to make CG feel a little better.
Which car to use in comparison is always a bit silly, since so many choices are available. I chose Prius to 1, mock the Volt; and 2, because I think it will be an obvious alternative choice car for people looking to cut down on fuel costs. It is disingenuous to call petrol a fuel, but not electricity. CG *is* a car dealer however, so I should not be surprised.
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:45 pm)the fact that the new ceo of gm announced a 50% increase in the production of the volt would suggest that expected demand is outstripping original supply. it might also suggest that gm is being more aggressive in their rollout in response to the rollout of the leaf. i can’t say for sure one way or the other.
in a safe harbor financial disclosure statement, you don’t put statements suggesting that sales volumes are likely to exceed forecast without also making disclaimers about how future sales are unpredictable. you have to be very careful about making “rah rah” statements in financial disclosure statements because there is the risk that the statements could form the basis of a shareholder lawsuit if the statements don’t actually come true.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:45 pm)Nice approach. But I’d think the cost of gas would be more like $200/month, but of course you have to pay for electricity as well, so perhaps you were being conservative.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:48 pm)Notice the use of “Petrol” instead of gas as an American would use. This troll is from out of the country. When is the last time you told anyone –I think I will go down to the local PETROL station and fill up?
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:48 pm)You choose the Prius because (1) you have one; and (2) you are having trouble accepting that, with the release of the Leaf and the Volt, you’ll soon be driving a pollution spewing gas guzzling obsolete piece of tech. IMHO.
-1
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:49 pm)if i understand you correctly then, if a person paid the difference between the sale price and the residual value (plus dealer fees) up front, then they would pay no interest fees and would make no further payments for the duration of the lease?
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:57 pm)BMW is also a nice car to drive. Just doesn’t do well at the Exxon pump.
=D-Volt
Updated: 03/25/2010: BMW today announced US prices for the new 5-Series Sedan that will go on sale this June. Including $875 Destination & Handling, the new 535i Sedan will start at $50,475, and the V-8 powered 550i will start at $60,575.
Updated 06/21/2010: BMW today announced prices for the new 2011 535i and 550i xDrive Sedan models. The 2011 535i xDrive is priced at $52,775 and the 550i xDrive at $62,875. These prices represent a $2300 premium over their traditional rear-wheel drive counterparts. Sales will begin in October 2010.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (2:58 pm)No car, including your precious, gets the same mileage under all conditions. So should we claim that the Prius gets 24 MPG “in Yosemite” just because, depending on where you are on the mountains, that’s about what it gets? Talk about hopeless uphill BS based on cherry picking numbers.
The only difference between Nissan and GM on the one hand, and Toyota on the other, is that the former two are willing to give realistic ranges while Toyota sticks to the BS EPA numbers. In fact all the stories about the huge discrepancy between the MPG numbers Toyota claimed the Prius would get and what people actually got provided the final impetus for the EPA to change the method used to calculate the MPG numbers so they were more realistic.
-8
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:06 pm)It is hopeless GM that wrote “mostly uphill,” as if it had any meaning, not Nissan or Toyota. EPA on the other hand has a course description available with extreme detail. What more could you ask for ?
So long as the context (in this case, the driving cycle) is explicit I don’t care what course is used. As for “realistic,” that is in the eyes of the specific user. I found that the old EPA very closely matched my driving, while the new cycle underestimates my personal fuel economy by about 50%. Really, drive cycles are most useful for comparison purposes between cars, and are not a substitute for knowing how your driving compares to the cycle used in testing to have a fair guess what you will see.
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:10 pm)Try the same graph using 45 MPG and two full charges a day. That would be more realistic IMO. And rather than using MPG it would be more interesting just to use gallons of gas.
In my view the most accurate MPG number would skip daily driving of over 100 miles (the Volt is too small for a steady diet of trips this long) and would use two charges a day for daily driving of between 50 and 100 miles. People who routinely use a Volt for those distances will find a way to opportunity charge. FWIW double daily charging is what Toyota is using when computing the MPG for its plug-in Prius except is uses double daily charging for all daily driving.
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:11 pm)I don’t think the lease would be approved under that scenario, and if you were to do that, why not just buy it outright?
-5
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:17 pm)“FWIW double daily charging is what Toyota is using when computing the MPG for its plug-in Prius except is uses double daily charging for all daily driving.”
Link ?
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:20 pm)About 10 years ago, before I came back to sell Chevys, I used to drive all over Southern California installing software systems in hospitals. Back then I routinely drove from my home to San Diego, 99 miles each way. I made that trip about 6 times per month. The rest of the time I spent all over Los Angeles and Orange Counties. So, I am just guessing that there are a lot of people with similar jobs that do travel 100 miles per day. The Volt would be a good choice for that kind of professional.
-12
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:21 pm)(click to show comment)
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:31 pm)Whether you charge your Volt for 8 hours @ .13kwh ($1.04) on your home electric bill. Or charge your Volt at work or at the shopping center for free. Or use a solar system. The bottom line is you’re going to use no gasoline for the first 40 miles you drive. A simple conversion @ $3 per gallon effectively equals 120 MPG. The good news is you haven’t sent your earned dollars to OPEC. You haven’t caused anyone to choke on your smoke. You may have helped a soldier protect America rather than protecting a desert pipeline in the Middle East. You may have saved an American job. You haven’t had to fight for a fueling space at the gas station.
I don’t know how it where you live. Gas station tension, filling pump hole shooting, and flat out rudeness in the city I drive seems to be getting worse. 52 weeks per year. 2 gas stops per week.
104 less gasoline stops per year.
at $15 per stop = $1560
or $20 per stop = $2080
Anyone want to buy a used Excursion?
=D-Volt
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:35 pm)We are all pleased that you are happy with your soon-to-be-outdated Toyota Prius. Really we are. But we don’t care about your opinion. We have already read other expert opinions and you should take note of what other experts are saying about it:
From CarandDriver.com >>>
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2012_toyota_prius_plug-in_hybrid-first_drive_review
“The Prius PHV is essentially just a Prius whose nickel-metal hydride battery pack has been swapped for a far pricier, far heavier, and far more potent lithium-ion pack.”
“And so the parallel-hybrid powertrain design, the squishy suspension setup, and the puny 15-inch wheels remain, giving the PHV the same lackluster driving characteristics as its non-plug-in sibling. That includes the way-overboosted electric power steering and a brake pedal that has yet to deliver anything close to accuracy.”
“The most palpable difference between the standard and PHV Priuses, then, is how a judicious right foot can direct the PHV to achieve and maintain speeds of up to 62 mph using electricity alone. Like a regular Prius, though, the PHV will fire up its internal-combustion engine if you’re not careful. The PHV’s threshold is slightly higher than the regular car’s, but anything more than genteel pressure on the go pedal—say, as might be required to enter the freeway or accelerate up a slight hill—and the 98-hp, 1.8-liter four-cylinder stirs with a decidedly unsexy moan.”
“But then, the Prius never has been and never will be about driving delight, but rather is about maximum fuel economy.”
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:49 pm)I don’t see it that way.
The want list is totally anonymous with very little contact information and most aren’t the person’s real name. Plus, some of the data is 3-1/2 years old. Plus, privacy issues would be opened up.
Several key factors have changed since 2007. The body design, genset engine and the price are high on that list. This means that people who were interested in the concept may not be interested in the real deal.
With this kind of data, I’d be inclined to build my own list rather than try to scrub this one.
Flame on if you want, but, I think the downside for using Lyle’s list is greater than some are thinking.
+4
Sep 26th, 2010 (3:52 pm)Go back and check a tread of his statements. You will find that he changes the subject, and doesn’t talk much about your points, except to put them down.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:01 pm)It’s very possible the first names on the list include hostile concerns. Parties that would love to get an early Volt to exploit the technology. The Volt really shouldn’t be compared to a Toyota economy car. It’s closet rival is the BMW. The Volt is comfortable, quiet beyond anything prior, provides excellent torque, offers outrageous tech features standard, is stylish, and delivers higher MPG than anything currently on the road including small motorcycles.
=D-Volt
-9
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:06 pm)“We are all pleased that you are happy with your soon-to-be-outdated Toyota Prius.”
Some 97% of the cars on the road are outdated, not the Prius. Watch while hybrids take over the car market in the next 10-20 years, while the hopelessly overpriced Volt is a forgotten memory.
I am curious though: have you learned yet that your fav car is a serial hybrid with an expensive, heavy battery attached ?
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:10 pm)No you pay the difference plus the interest –Just not the residual part as you would on a purchase.
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:21 pm)when i bought my last car, i paid for it in cash. as a result, there were no interest charges as would have been the case had i financed the purchase. it appears that in the case where you are leasing, there would be no incentive to pay the difference plus interest up front because the point in paying the difference up front would be to avoid the interest charges. the benefit to the dealer is that he gets all the cash today and there is no risk of default on the lease.
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:34 pm)Leases are not always for everyone but sometimes they are the way to go.
1. When you can’t afford the car a lease is usually a smaller monthly payment.
2. If the residual is fair and the money factor is subsidised just lease and buy at the end and have a low interest rate loan. (you will find some cars don’t do the 0 % finance but subsidize the lease)
3. A way for bussiness to write it off easier.
4. Some like the idea of always having a fairly new car and budget for a monthly payment and are always on warranty also.
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:40 pm)Yesterday, I posted a link to Nissan’s leaf website.
http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/08/04/leaf-depth-of-discharge/
“The biggest revelation from Mark (Mark Perry-Nissan exec) was that Nissan engineers are allowing 95 percent of the LEAF’s energy storage to be used…Mark believes that it will be a rare occurrence for a LEAF driver to dip so far into the state-of-charge. Regardless, Nissan is showing a great degree of confidence in the capability and durability of its battery technology to allow so much of its capacity to be used in those rare times…Combine the big number for miles-per-kilowatt with the 95% battery usage figure to get a picture of a robust well-managed battery that—at least for in-town driving—could mean high real-world numbers for driving range.”
He in a later interview said, “Never said 95%”. However, they talk about an additional 10% hit on battery life (normally 80% after ten years) when fast charging is used. they also stated:
“Nissan engineers have reduced the cost to about $17,000, based on re-engineering for simplicity, as well as scale manufacturing. The company believes it can reduce the costs further. The current Leaf DC fast charger is built to Japanese standards, and has not yet been UL certified for North America. Nissan’s lower cost on a quick charger is big news, because most rapid chargers have been priced around $50,000.”
In order to reduce the price of the fast charger so substantially they would have to eliminate a lot of components. I suspect that their charger does not slow down the charging rate for the top 10% SOC. They also state that they can fast charge to 80% in thirty minutes. I suspect that their charging rate , even if they don’t use 95% SOC, may be too fast and ends up damaging the battery pack. Charging must be slowed for the top 10% when fully charging the battery (100% SOC). Otherwise the batteries ability to take and hold a charge is diminished.
GM after having tested many different cells in their laboratories certainly realizes how important each of these factors are to insure that the battery pack can be warrantied for eight years. Term it conservative if you will but I see it as GM has properly done its homework and correctly engineered the battery pack.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
-7
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:49 pm)Brag all you want. Sustaining profitable sales is an entirely different matter.
Mature technology is what’s needed for that.
How much traditional production will be replaced?
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:55 pm)Just curious have you driven a BMW 3 series, although I think they are overpriced they drive like a dream?
Also have you driven a production Volt yet? Not knocking the Volt as I think it will be a very good quality but it’s unfair to state this before even knowing for sure.
Sep 26th, 2010 (4:58 pm)Mmmmmm. The new four letter word.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+4
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:01 pm)That’s the best you two guys have? What? No ‘snappy retort’ to the direct quotes from Car and Driver Magazine? I’ve got a stack of Volt orders sitting on my desk, and the first TV commercial hasn’t even run yet. I’m looking forward to getting a Volt to demo at Christmas. And taking orders from soon-to-be ‘former’ Prius fans. I wish you luck on your ventures as well.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:02 pm)“I chose Prius to … mock the Volt”
Does anyone still believe this person is not a troll?
“… a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
Vote them off the island and move on.
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:11 pm)You must have seen the video of the early tester going through multiple attempts to get the plug in Prius to accomplish a 0 to 60 run in EV mode. If not, check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrb2cU3esz0
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:24 pm)That was a fun video. Too bad he didn’t narrate what was happening. Anyways… I think it’s fair to say that there will be many who will accept the lower performance figures of the Prius and Plug-In Prius, and that will be mostly due to price. Just like many Corvette buyers are happy with the standard model when they ‘really want’ the ZR-1. You buy the best car you can afford. What will be really interesting is when the All-Electric Cruze comes out. If that one is about the same price as the Leaf, it will be fun to see how many want the ‘catfish look’ after all.
-1
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:26 pm)you may want to check yesterday’s thread because i did post a reply to your comments.
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:29 pm)my thinking about it is that i am hesitant to buy the volt outright because it is such new technology. so for me the lease idea is more of a way to limit technology risk. so i would be willing to pay the depreciation up front if there was a financial incentive for me to do so.
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:50 pm)There is such a thing as a one pay lease. You pay the whole thing up front for a dscount. You will have to ask if they will do it with the volt and see if the discount is enough.
This lease looks like a good deal but I will wait to see all of the details.
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:53 pm)I am going mostly on feedback from people who frequent this site. We have a dozen here who have driven the pre-production Volt. I have pulled from their reviews of these demo drives. There is also an out of the box demo video of a Volt available. It was captured at the Milford Proving ground. Have a look at the pounding the car takes. Notice the comments of how smooth and quiet it is. Notice the mention of excellent torque. How many cars would you race to a stop gate. Then turn sideways and lock the brakes in a hockey style side stop? BMW can do this as well. But not at over 100 mpg. And not for under $40,000 delivered. Smart phone connectivity for the BMW? OnStar? Probably a similar 6 speaker Bose sound system. “Super smooth ride at 80mph”, yup…it’s the Volt.
=D-Volt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK63kMy4-XU
-2
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:57 pm)More to the point, if enough jerks insult honest criticism as “troll,” they eventually get some of what they deserve in return.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (5:57 pm)Thought for the Day:
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:05 pm)A contracted order is much different than a “hand raising exercise” or a forecast. It demonstrates how many initial customers are willing to put their money where there mouth is. A $42K OTD (before tax CREDIT) transaction for a compact car (no matter how efficient) is not a routine purchase for Joe-Six-Pack. GM Marketing better get their marketing A-Game in place quickly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRPm-G5R1ps&feature=related
Who said anything about placing the number of orders taken in a financial disclosure statement? I simply asked why GM won’t share how many orders have been taken thus far.
It’s not a complicated question and GM knows the answer.
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:09 pm)http://www.a1freesoundeffects.com/freesounds5/fart2.wav
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:16 pm)Just let me know the post#.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
-3
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:19 pm)Speaking of gas …
I recently got a peak at a show Volt and a “cutaway volt” on display at the state fair. From what I could see of the gas tank — it’s easily 9 gallons if not more. Of course, that’s just looking at the outside dimensions and who knows what will go in the final production … so, … just another useless (and unreliable) data point.
Spokesperson was very clearly saying an ‘additional’ 300 miles once the battery was depleted. So, there’s another mostly useless piece of info.
Now, enjoy this timeless melody:
http://www.a1freesoundeffects.com/popular12008/fart4.mp3
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:20 pm)I have 3 orders so far from persons living on the east coast. They tell me dealers over there are asking $6,000 to $10,000 over MSRP…! If that is the marketing plan for east coast Chevy Dealers, then I would say they have not sold all 10,000 yet… and no wonder.
-5
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:21 pm)Since when is middle-market their audience?
Selling vehicles like Camry & Corolla is clearly different from the niche Volt is targeting.
+2
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:30 pm)Thank You for your clarity and honesty. The more Volts in the hands of consumers (at a reasonable price) the better chance GM has to make a positive impact in the market place.
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:31 pm)things are not quite as simple as you seem to think they are. if the issue is the ipo as you mentioned in a previous post, i explained to you why you don’t put this kind of information in a financial disclosure statement.
the reason why financial markets tend to respond to orders is because they assume that all of the orders will eventually be delivered. companies are typically not able to recognize revenue on the basis of mere orders; they typically don’t recognize revenue until the order is delivered. if gm were to quote orders today and ultimately have to postpone delivery, they would undoubtedly take a financial hit in the future for failure to deliver. in turn, gm might potentially be liable to lawsuits from investors who would alleged that gm misled them with quotes of bogus orders on which they (gm) knew they couldn’t deliver.
i know it might all seem so simple to you, but the reality is that the safe harbor period before an ipo is a period of heightened sense of legal liability when companies are extremely careful about what they disclose.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:31 pm)Ouch! What a stinging rebuke of ‘Car and Drivers’ poor review of a plug-In Prius…
Man! You guys are strong like garlic!
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:50 pm)i took a look at this plug-in prius video that you cited. from looking at this video, it is hard to take the plug-in prius seriously. first, it was an animation, which makes the car seem like it isn’t real. second, a 12 mile ev range is a bit of a joke. third, the fact that you can only drive up to 60 mph in ev mode is also a bit of joke.
it seems hard to believe that toyota really believes that the plug-in prius would compare favorably to the volt because it looks like everything the plug-in prius does, the volt does better.
-9
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:51 pm)Haven’t been paying attention, eh? They haven’t expressed enthusiam for anything in that market beyond just attention-drawing ever since pre-rollout back in 1999.
Again I ask, who is the market for Volt?
What guzzlers is it intended to replace?
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (6:58 pm)Just an FYI to this point, I went to Bellavia Chevrolet in Northern NJ and I’m getting my Volt at MSRP. They treated me very well. So, it isn’t all the dealers
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:00 pm)I never signed up on Lyle’s list or GM’s list, but I plan to buy/lease a Volt.
-1
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:09 pm)1) Are we going without our medication today? For the third time, no one asked that the number of orders placed to date be put in a financial statement.
2) I hope you play no role in any financial transactions or IPOs because it is not your strong suit
3) GM produces regularly statements on the health of the company and includes “forward looking language” to share information that is not 100% certifiable. See link below
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/news/news_detail.brand_gm.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/Aug/0812_earnings
Suggestion: Speak what you know and NOT what you think
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:15 pm)I cannot buy one until 2001, no matter what. This is because I want to take full advantage of the $7,500.00 “non-refundable” tax credit on the Volt. I don’t owe the IRS anywhere near $7,500.00, so I can’t take the credit in tax year 2010.
So now I have to lie, and tell my payroll officer that I suddenly have 99 dependants in January 2011, so virtually no federal taxes are taken out of my check. Then, I have to monitor my withholding until at least $7,500.00 less has been deducted for federal taxes, then adjust my withholding again. (I’m not even sure it this is legal).
So much trouble for a tax credit! Obama could make the credit “refundable” with the stroke of a pen, but he does nothing. So much for the “green” President. Why make getting a tax credit so hard?
I just hope all these new Volt owners realize the limitations of the Volt tax credit. It cannot generate or increase a tax refund – all it can do is decrease what you owe the IRS. Honestly, how many people (individual returns, not business) out there write a $7,500.00+ check to the IRS on April 15?
-1
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:16 pm)what you are citing is a statement of quarterly results. as a publicly traded company, gm is legally required to do this. i’m afraid that i’m just not following where you are going with this; gm has no revenue from the sale of the volt, because as i stated before, they can’t recognize revenue as a result of received orders.
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:32 pm)If you didn’t know it, this is just for your future knowledge! The “forward looking language” is standard statement put on all statements that project a possible future increase in a stocks value. To avoid any future law suites, the disclaimer is added to the new release. No one can predict the future. 100% certification has nothing to do with it. Get real and get a life!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:34 pm)Well said.
If you quote the trolls, or respond to them, you HELP them. You know who they are. They use insults, and they all write what their socialist teachers in public school told them to write. You can tell from their arrogance – they believe “Al Gore said it, they believe it, and that ends it”. Sad, really.
Here’s what I do – I know the repeat trolls by name. I just click -1 and scroll past their hatred and intolerance.
So please don’t give them a negative 1-proof billboard by quoting them. I know the “quote” button is tempting, but you should reserve quotes for those deserving of them. Not trolls – give them -1′s, not quotes. Thanks !
-4
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:34 pm)Toyota is betting that the PPH will provide an incremental increase in avg mileage (70 mpg) for an incremental increase in cost over the PH with lower CO2 values.
GM and Toyota have in place two different Hybrid strategies. Toyota is seeking the sweet spot for electric powered vehicles by attempting to balance cost vs EV range. Getting 40-60 miles of EV at a price (price of Volt without government tax credits) few consumers can afford does not appear to be a viable strategy to Toyota.
[Bill Reinert, national manager for the advanced-technologies group at Toyota's U.S. sales arm, said adapting a hybrid vehicle so it can run for 20 miles on electricity alone could cost about $10,000 with current technology. "We are aware there is some market" at that cost level, Mr. Reinert said. But Toyota wants to understand at what price level it could sell the most vehicles. Referring to a price more than that of the Prius, which starts at $20,950, he said, "Where is the fat spot in the market? Is it $1,500? Is it $2,000? Is it $3,000?"]
Toyota has had 3 generations of Prius in the market and is sticking to their strategy with Synergy drive.
Have no official strategy statement from GM but it appears the 1st generation VOLT with tax credits will eventually result in a more affordable future VOLT. GM is heavily emphasizing the 40 miles of pure electric and generator and the best overall approach BUT, the 1st VOLT will come to the market a bit higher priced and limited in sales volume until Gen 2 is developed.
The marketplace will decide which strategy is better received.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:35 pm)1) Educated professionals, unlike yourself apparently (since you still don’t get it).
2) The Toyota Prius, and by extension, the Plug-in Prius.
-3
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:36 pm)I’m aware of this. I cited it as a reason why GM CAN tell us how many orders have been taken and NOT find legal jeopardy. Reading is fundamental!!!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again. LOL LOL
-1
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:36 pm)#13
Jim I Said:
No Volts available in Ohio.
I hate being a second class GM citizen…………….
Seems like we’re all second class citizens right now as only GM employees are allowed to have fun with the Volts, driving them around at will, doing whatever they like. 8-(
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:38 pm)+1… Well said.
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:43 pm)Sorry, I meant: I cannot buy one until 2011, no matter what.
I miskeyed one digit – I blame excess diet Mt Dew.
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:46 pm)If the November elections go really bad for him, he may still do something just to save face.
+3
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:47 pm)the plug-in prius is so incremental that it suggests to me that toyota was caught a bit off-guard when it comes to ev technology and what they are trying to do with the plug-in prius is to hold their customer base while they work on something better.
-4
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:51 pm)if your income is so low that you don’t have $7,500 of tax liability, then i’m kind of wondering how do you have the disposable income to afford a volt?
-4
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:57 pm)I suggest watching the hybrid episode of South Park. That’s an excellent example of smug.
It other words, acknowledge Volt as a well targeted niche and the problems go away.
.
So… none of GM’s production will change… they’ll just keep on producing the same old guzzlers, but try to capture some Prius consumers. What about other vehicle sizes & prices?
Vehicles like Cruze, Malibu, and Equinox cannot remain low MPG vehicles for too much longer. The next models must finally address consumption & emission needs.
With the entire industry changing due to oil dependency, emission concerns, and efficiency requirements, that’s a pretty weak plan.
+4
Sep 26th, 2010 (7:59 pm)+10 for myself because that one was really funny. Anyway, my Sunday shift is over so shooting trolls in a barrel will have to wait until tomorrow.
-4
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:01 pm)Why is PRICE so hard to understand?
Middle-Market isn’t interested in more power and greater capacity. They want a balance. That’s why vehicles like Camry & Corolla aren’t feature in Car & Driver.
Yet, vehicles like Camry & Corolla provided a large chunk of their sustained profitable sales.
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:09 pm)Wave bye-bye johnboy… Bye-bye!
-2
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:26 pm)My understanding is that the Prius will always fire up its engine, even if you’re just going down the street for a quarter of a mile at 5 MPH. The reason for this is that uncontrolled cold starts would produce too much pollution, and the only way to prevent an uncontrolled cold start in a parallel hybrid is to have a controlled cold start every time you turn the car on. So to keep the AT-PZEV designation the Prius has to burn gas all the time. Even driving very conservatively won’t prevent this.
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:28 pm)I believe that the “something better” may be the return of the EV RAV-4 using Tesla Motor technology. But I also believe that Toyota is at least two years away (between the end of 2012 and the middle of the 2013 year), so the Volt and the other EVs will get a large head start. Toyota might not catch up at all! But the new RAV-4 will add to the EV conversion of America and help reduce even more the oil dependency, so it is welcomed.
Raymond
-6
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:31 pm)Don, how is the VOLT not impacted by the “cold start” issue?? How does the Volt generator manage this pollution issue?
-5
Sep 26th, 2010 (8:57 pm)Are you talking about the Prius HV or the PHV ? The HV will start up the ICE to warm itself and the cat up, but then shuts on and off according to battery SOC and power demands. The PHV does not turn on the ICE until most of the AER has been used, or a high power is demanded.
Toyota does not make a parallel hybrid.
-5
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:10 pm)That’s not the case. The minimum is 114°F, which is easy to maintain even after a stop at the grocery store, allowing you to leave in EV. And the plug-in model does not start engine until needed when in CD still.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:15 pm)LOL. You don’t really think that is Nissan’s Leaf website, right ?
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:20 pm)The Volt can always control the start because the battery can always supply all of the instantaneous power needs whenever he genset is called upon. The genset is only needed for average power and there is still plenty of overall battery capacity (@30%) even when the genset is called to action.
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:33 pm)Ha, a-ha-ha, aaa-ha-ha-ha-ha, hoo-weee, a-ha-ha-ha, oh-oh, a-ha-ha-ha (knee slap, knee slap)…stop…stop…yer killin’ me
After all your mindless posts (hundreds, if not thousands), your deep seeded problem with the Volt is that its technology isn’t mature.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:36 pm)You don’t have to owe $7500 at tax time to take the full $7500 credit. You just have to have a tax liability of $7500 for the year (after any other credits you might have). The credit is applied against your tax liability just like your payroll withholding, and you can get all of the credit back as a refund, if your withholding covers your all of your tax liability. It’s the same as if you had withheld an extra $7500.
Sep 26th, 2010 (9:37 pm)You can always take a survey and make it say whatever you want. It’s only your interpretation.
I, for one, responded that I would buy a Volt eventually. There is a good reason for that : the Volt is not yet available in Canada.
I’m not committed so far because I cannot be.
How do you interpret that ?
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:01 pm)Ok. That’s just not true. I gotta jump in here.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2010_toyota_camry_se-short_take_road_test
Do you subscribe? I do.
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:16 pm)just to split hairs here, withholding is not a reduction of tax liability but is treated as a payment. but as you pointed out, as long as someone has at least $7500 of tax liability in the year in which they are claiming the tax credit, then the tax credit has the effect of additional withholding. of course, if you don’t have $7500 in tax liability then the difference between the tax liability and $7500 is lost (in which case the tax credit doesn’t act like an additional withholding).
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:21 pm)Ok. I don’t get it totally.
You have to of paid in $7500 plus enough to cover all other tax credits *before* you can claim the full $7500 as a refund. Is that correct?
/Should probably ask my CPA rather than a car board. But, we all need to know this stuff.
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:33 pm)Just to split hairs, I never said withholding was a reduction in tax liability. I said “the credit is applied against your tax liability just like your payroll withholding”, i.e. both are treated as payments, and if you over pay you can get a refund of your overpayment.
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:43 pm)Actually, I would do it in my car but I drive a 2010 STI. My next purcahase will be a Volt when they hit CO and I will be well greatly satisfied if it has the drive quality of a BMW. There is no question it will be quite!!
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:45 pm)No. Your total tax owed for the year is your tax liability. Line 46 on 2009 Form 1040. This is what you owe before subtracting any credits, withholding, or other payments you might have made.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:46 pm)Lol. Toyota just follows into the guzzler fray. Every hear of a 2011 Toyota Land Cruiser?
13/18 city/highway.
/glass houses and stones and all
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:52 pm)i didn’t intend to suggest that you said that a withholding was a reduction in tax liability. but what i was stating is that a tax credit is not treated as a tax payment. a tax credit is a reduction in tax liability, which is different from a withholding which is a tax payment.
-1
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:54 pm)Looks like you missed the previous reference.
Sep 26th, 2010 (10:57 pm)Om
No. Cruiser was always intended to be a niche vehicle.
Mainstream replacement is the purpose of Volt, right?
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:04 pm)I agree.
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:13 pm)Thanks for pointing that out! I stand corrected. Interesting that many of your nicks appear there though. We should visit your blog and forum. I know I will.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:21 pm)lol. Millions of them have been sold and it’s been in production since 1951.
+1
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:45 pm)Just lease the thing. Then you don’t have to worry about the tax credit and you don’t have to wait.
Sep 26th, 2010 (11:51 pm)How do you get it to 114F? You start the engine. That was my point. And, AFAIK, that’s not going to change with the plug-in model. You have to heat the converter in you’re going to avoid uncontrolled cold starts, which means you have to start the engine.
Sep 27th, 2010 (12:03 am)Oh yeah, Toyota doesn’t make a parallel hybrid and GM doesn’t make a serial hybrid. You know the saying, putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change the fact it’s still a pig.
As far as the PHV is concerned, it can’t be any different than the HV because both models have to start the engine and warm the converter. If they didn’t, then a need for (not much) power would result in an uncontrolled cold start which will produce a lot of pollution. (Not that the Prius is tops on this measure as it is, but it’s at least competitive with the Civic CNG.)
Sep 27th, 2010 (3:47 am)lyle shortly after i made my first post you changed the survey question number three about where you live answer from “outside the u.s” to read “none of the above” why? now i look like a fool. also i read this when only 6 comments were up, so it must have been posted only minuets beforehand.so which was it, outside the u.s, or outside the initial roll-out areas? this seems to be a wierd typo on your behalf! if it was the latter (quickly fixed i might add)
stuey
Sep 27th, 2010 (3:52 am)I gotta jump in here……
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q1/2010_ford_fusion_hybrid_vs._camry_hybrid_altima_hybrid_and_malibu_hybrid-comparison_tests/2009_chevrolet_malibu_hybrid_page_2
If you are going to hold up Car and Driver as the indication of Toyotas decline, explain how Chevys 4th place showing in the hybrid contest IS NOT a reflection of how GM has no credible (efficient AND cost effective) hybrid offering today and going forward?
Sep 27th, 2010 (4:10 am)what are you getting at exactly?
Sep 27th, 2010 (6:45 am)Not sure if I agree. I think the concept of “initial launch markets” is more important than honoring the “want list”. GM needs to be able to provide the best service possible to early customers, and it can’t do that if those customers are scattered across the country, buying cars from untrained dealerships. Nobody knows what type of early problems may occur with these vehicles and it will be important to be able to identify and solve the problems quickly….accomplished only be making a small number of vehicles and offering them in limited geographical areas.
Sep 27th, 2010 (7:27 am)I suspect that the RAV-4 will be pretty popular. It seems to be greatly lamented that it was taken off the market as an EV. But then how many people have this great affection for the vehicle? So, I guess it could be “very popular” but within a select group of people, question is will it be a big group or a modest group. Same could be said of the Volt.
Sep 27th, 2010 (8:10 am)What am I getting at?
I hope we hear more about GMs effciency strategy beyond just the VOLT. GM consistently places poorly in real world mileage compared to the competition. Almost every top tier manufacturer has a “blue” strategy for efficiency that will be applied across the product line.
Do you have any insight to GMs broader efficiency strategy for NA and Europe?
Sep 27th, 2010 (9:23 am)So even though I pointed out it is different, you’ll pretend you didn’t see that reference.
Also, the engine warm-up is shockingly fast, heavily optimized for heat transfer via both air & liquid… quite unlike traditional vehicles. The engine doesn’t have run as hard either, since it is a hybrid with a very large electric motor.
Sep 27th, 2010 (11:53 am)I see you can learn. The GM factoid will change when the Volt is released.
I am hesitant to confuse you with more facts after your wonderful start this morning. Try googling a bit.
Define “a lot”
Sep 27th, 2010 (8:38 pm)Agreed, but it’s TagaMET (lol)
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 28th, 2010 (8:44 am)The-grump: So much trouble for a tax credit! Obama could make the credit “refundable” with the stroke of a pen, but he does nothing. So much for the “green” President. Why make getting a tax credit so hard?
I can’t lease any car – In a year, I drive more than double the standard 12,000 miles a year allowance for leased cars. I don’t expect the Volt’s lease to be any different in their mileage allowance.
Sometimes, these “one size fits all” answers are not the best response. All people are not alike.