GM has just revealed an exciting new vehicular application for it’s Voltec extended range electric car propulsion system which is found in the Chevy Volt.
Opel will be exhibiting the new Vivaro e-Concept extended range electric cargo van concept at the IAA Commercial Vehicles Fair in Hannover on September 23rd.
The cargo van is intended for commercial use and for operators who would like to limit petroleum consumption. It has 5 cubic meters of cargo space and can carry a payload up to 750 kg. It is designed for use in inner city transport and delivery.
The lithium ion battery pack is floor-mounted, and the van can travel for up to 60 miles purely on electricity. For drives longer than that, the gas-powered range extender would kick in allowing a maximum range of 400 km (250 miles).
“We would like to test the acceptance of our advanced propulsion technology by showing the Vivaro e-Concept to the commercial vehicle specialists attending the show,” says Chris Lacey, Executive Director, International Operations Opel/Vauxhall Commercial Vehicles. “We are convinced that we will get a fantastic reaction from the people who use such vehicles on a daily basis: Electric mobility will allow them to travel in city areas which are now off-limits to petrol and diesel-powered vehicles and the range-extender technology makes it possible to use an electric van for normal routine business.”
I asked the following questions about the van of GM spokesperson Randal Fox:
Is Vivaro a new brand?
Vivaro is a brand name for Opel and is not new.
Are there working prototypes?
There are no immediate plans to build prototypes. We want to listen to feedback from fair visitors and competitive van users and once the research is completed, we’ll decide what the next steps should be.
How large is the lithium ion battery pack in kwh?
This is a concept vehicle and at this early stage we cannot disclose battery details for competitive reasons. It has similar technology as the Opel Ampera, but now in a commercial application.
Could this come to US?
There are no plans to build this concept vehicle or bring it to the U.S.
Here is a video of the van:
Source (GM)
+14
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:21 am)Sounds like this is little more than wetting a finger to see which way the wind is blowing. I’m much more curious to hear an update about GM’s plan to show a Voltec CUV in Shanghai. That’s an application that would find many ready buyers over here, I suspect.
Nonetheless, I’m glad that GM continues to think about ways use Voltec in other vehicles.
+14
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:23 am)Looks like a winner to me
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:28 am)What is the CS mode mpg?, 60 miles range will not do it for me, granma lives 150 miles away.. thus it will be a failure, can it recharge in 10 minutes?, where are we going to get the rare metal lithium?, its too ugly..
There, just wanted to get that out of the way early in the thread.
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:29 am)Good to see Voltec being considered for larger vehicles. Should GM produce an EREV cargo van? It’s better to start with an EREV family vehicle such as a crossover. And stick with a pure battery plug in on the cargo van. This is unless CS mode is solidly over 40mpg. A delivery service will do well with a mix of standard ICE vans and pure battery plug-ins. Manufacturing the Converj with a 180HP electric motor Voltec drive is also a winning combination.
=D-Volt
+48
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:31 am)I am truly getting sick of hearing:
_There are no plans to build this concept vehicle or bring it to the U.S._
OT, but GM has a real winner in the Voltec technology. If they build it in large enough numbers to get the economies of scale, it will still be selling fast after the early adopters all get theirs. But if the price doesn’t come down, people will make do with inferior technology with limited range, i.e. the Leaf or the Focus Electric.
And I am still waiting for the CS mileage. I am turning into a Grump on this site…
I blame it on the MBA’s because the engineers appear to have hit this one out of the park but the MBA’s are signaling the Volt to stop at first base.
+10
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:32 am)For all the folks asking about Voltec trucks. Here’s one.
Very exciting that these concept vehicles are being displayed and discussed. It’s not a leap to build a small pickup or small passenger van configuration if they can do a delivery van.
GM has a tiger by the tail. The Voltec beast will propel GM and the entire industry to the next level.
+15
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:34 am)lol. Preemptive strike eh?
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:49 am)+1
+6
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:57 am)This van is a very useful size. Most small business can have it as their main vehicle, and save on gas. I hope that GM also produces something for the USPS. My Dad was a mail carrier in the 1970′s and he had one of the famous right-side drive Jeeps, but it was very gas-hungry, since the carriers have to stop and go at every mailbox. An electric Jeep was tested but never went to full production. Now it is GM’s chance to get the USPS what it needs!
BTW, the Opel TV site (where this concept van is shown) also has videos on the Vauxhall Ampera. Look down and change pages:
http://www.opel.tv/index.php?mo=2010-09-21-Opel-Vivaro-e-concept-English&channel=mostrecent&lang=en
Raymond
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:03 am)This would do well in plenty of commercial apps. High use applications are the low hanging fruit for EREVs and BEVs. Put a minivan shell on it along with a little less expensive 40 mile AER battery and bring both over the pond. GM doesn’t even have a minivan in it’s current lineup, so its conquest sales percent would be even higher than the Volt’s.
+17
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:05 am)Ok
I know of a lot of small to medium size business that would jump on this in a heart beat,
ok old ad campaign.
The wife runs a Flower Shop and this would be ideal for her deliveries.
I can think of Parts store, Pizza shops and cleaning services that could use a van like this.
GM should bring this to the US or build something like it
+15
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:08 am)I can see this being a whole lot of useful for a whole lot of people. Ford Transit E-Connect needs some competition GM!
+13
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:25 am)How right you are!
+8
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:36 am)/ PS to my #13: I also see this vehicle with its 60mi AER as ‘proof of concept’ for application of the Voltec drive train to CUVs and performance cars, e.g., an Equinox with 60mi AER, a Z-28E, or a Volt SS —for which the 50% larger battery could be complemented by a higher power traction motor with, say 187.5W (250hp) for V8-like torque, high-end power and 6 second 0-60 times!
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:37 am)GM already has plans for the US for a cargo van partnering with Bright Automotive
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/news/news_detail.brand_gm.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/Aug/0803_bright
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:48 am)Commercial van, sure, this is an excellent first step in making EV commercial vans usable. I would like to know how much weight a retail conversion would add. 60 miles and 1500 lbs of payload would be a little costly, no doubt, but this would open up the market again for conversion vans. 10 mpg would be history.
EREV possibilities look better and better every month.
Keep ‘em coming!
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:04 am)An electric city cargo truck already exists made by a startup Co in the center of our country at Smith Electric. There is a big market for these work vehicles. With extended range, GM could have an edge but I bet the tech is too expensive now. Wait a couple years.
http://www.smithelectric.com/
+6
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:11 am)Well then, guess you’d better “stay tuned.”
.
.
.
.
(I’m so truly sorry… could not resist).
+7
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:20 am)‘Cause like a princess she was layin’ there
Moonlight dancin’ off her hair
She woke up and took me by the hand
She’s gonna love me in my Chevy van
And that’s all right with me…..
-11
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:22 am)(click to show comment)
+11
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:29 am)I’ve been screaming for years now !!! “the gene is out of the bottle” . When the Volt is a Huge success the copy cats and clones will come fast and furious . Production will ramp up world wide at a blistering pace for all types of EREV cars , trucks ,vans, motorcycles and boats . GM’s lead in this tech may last for sometime but my guess is this lead will be short lived.
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:36 am)EV are already in this market segment (urban work vehicles), so this is not a stretch. But it is a nice stepping stone to a mini-van…which is where electrics should move into the marketplace and OWN it.
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:38 am)“Electric mobility will allow them to travel in city areas which are now off-limits to petrol and diesel-powered vehicles and the range-extender technology makes it possible to use an electric van for normal routine business.”
“So, can the driver manually switch from one mode to the other?” will probably be a question asked by show attendees. “For example, what if I have a lot of deliveries in the suburbs first, then need to make more downtown?”
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:47 am)I love the 60 mile AER projection for the van. I hope GM changes their mind on keeping the 40 mile AER range for future generations of the Volt. I for one would definitely be willing to pay a little more for more electric range, especially once the cost comes down when the technology matures.
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:49 am)You are so right! I’m seeing quite a few Transit Connects around our city now and the Voltec system in a utility van this size for around town use could only be a winner.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:51 am)If you want to visit granma, get a Volt! Did you miss the point that this is a cargo van? Can you recharge in 10 minutes?
Lithium is not a rare earth metal. On page 2 of GM’s pdf battery=102:
http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/microsites/product/volt/docs/battery_102.pdf
they explained that 14-30 million tons of lithium reserves exist in the form of brine, ore, or clay. As lithium is likely to increase in cost now that EVs are coming to market, batteries made from other cheaper materials such as zinc will replace lithium as material of choice.
The application of Voltec technology to cargo vans isn’t limited to lithium powered batteries. Voltec technology is based on the flex fuel concept. Any source of power can be built into a Voltec vehicle.
Other manufacturers, like Ford, Freightliner. and Smith are a few, who are going to market with BEV cargo vans. You would most likely say they are ugly too. Only GM has proposed an EREV cargo van.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:55 am)ya got my attention!
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:59 am)OT: Only 49 days remaining till the manufacture of the Chevy Volt’s Job-1! How exciting!
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:05 am)You got that right!
“In August, GM Ventures made a $5 million investment in Bright Automotive, the start up behind the IDEA plug-in hybrid for commercial fleets. ” Source:
http://www.fastcompany.com/1690375/this-is-what-a-gm-electric-van-might-look-like
“Unfortunately for U.S. customers, it looks like the Vivero is a Europe-only vehicle. But if it ever goes into commercial production, rest assured that we’ll see a similar model hit U.S. streets.”
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
-1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:06 am)Later this year, when the ECO Cruze comes out, it should get 40mpg hwy. I’m sticking w/my guess of 38mpg in CS mode for the Volt, but would love to be pleasantly surprised.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:26 am)I found these links:
Fuel savings – http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/04/nrel-evaluates-ups-hybrid-electric-van-performance/ using a Freightliner chassis with Mercedes-Benz diesel engines.
Electric walk-in delivery van – http://green.autoblog.com/2010/09/07/ups-kicks-off-90-day-demo-program-using-evis-electric-walk-in-d/ This will be a test in the Sacremento area. The “model EVI-WI was certified earlier this year as a zero-emission vehicle by the California Air Resources Board.”
Another article on the 90 days test – http://green.autoblog.com/2010/09/07/ups-kicks-off-90-day-demo-program-using-evis-electric-walk-in-d/ Gives details on the electric drive train.
Hope you find this info useful.
I think that GM is just targeting the light delivery cargo van where Voltec technology is adequate: not larger delivery trucks.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:32 am)GM is sitting on the Bright Idea van – and now this oh, so tentative approach in Europe with an EREV van —- this, “oh gee, should we, or shouldn’t we….I wonder if the customer wants one…” stuff is pretty painful for us EV enthusiasts. It’s seemingly due to the cost of the unit, of course, it’s as if GM wants people to pay up front for them to develope solutions.
Did Henry Ford go around doing customer clinics and parading around the Model T before mass producing a common man’s car? Did Hitler and Mr. Porsche sit around wondering if the people needed a “people’s car”? No – they did not – they just used their knowledge of the potential market and went out on a limb and built the VW…and for risk there is reward.
For the United States it’s a no-brainer – to have commercial vehicles that the customer can write off tax-wise and also get green credits from government entities. With small businesses struggling today we should implement green credits for companies that show a willingness to upgrade their fleets with Transit Connect EVs, Bright Idea vans and imported GM Vivaros. In this challenging time where people need to think outside the box – we see a lot of foot dragging, hemming and hawwing. Vivaro is an obvious plum for GM in Europe being that no petrol vehicle areas are popping up all over.
Just build the van and put it on the market! Sheesh already.
RECHARGE!
James
Now back to our …GM “testing the waters” in the USA with Volt….. regular programming…
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:34 am)LOL! missed USPS vs UPS in previous post
The great fact about the EV is it’s fuel efficiency while at a stand still! Zero – Nada! An ICE vehicle can’t do that without a lot of added components. KISS – use an EV.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:55 am)The loooong delay in GM revealing CS mode mileage reminds us of it’s loooong delay in countering Nissan with it’s price announcement. In both cases, we will feel a slight pinch in our expectations of our beloved Volt. Just as it’s price was a bit more than we’d hoped for, it’s CS mileage seemingly will be less. Why else keep this vital information under the corporate hat when so much data about Volt has already been released?!
You guys are a lot smarter than I, and perhaps many of you are right in thinking Volt will see 50 mpg. Wouldn’t it be awesome if Farah’s target were met or exceeded?! To me, the layman, though, I just think the extra weight of Volt is the key. I know the battery’s weight in my current hybrid is the enemy to high mileage as I’m constantly trying to compensate for it while going up hills or extending my “glide” without power a few more hundred feet until I stop at a light. To this, I feel Volt’s heavy pack and Cruze architecture would indicate we’re in for a CS mileage mark of around 28-32 mpg. , optimized rpms or not.
I hope I’m wrong.
RECHARGE!
James
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:11 am)I wholeheartedly agree!
The Opel/Vauxhall spokesman is speaking only for his division and it would be premature for him to state that this design is going to be exported to the U.S.
If you look at the video again, you will notice that a German translation of what he is saying is dubbed over the video. Listen to his presentation and you will realize that this video was for presentation at the IAA Commercial Vehicles Fair in Hannover, Germany later this month.
Also, there is no need to say anything about the U.S. market. This is part of GM global engineering plans. They have combined some of the Bright Idea concepts for electric delivery vans with the Voltec technology and are now testing acceptance of their design proposal at the commercial fair. Europe is far ahead of the U.S. in adoption of this type of vehicle; their life style and the way their commerce is set up makes Europe the best place to build this type of vehicle. Then GM can change the appearance to a cargo van for the U.S. using the same or slightly different drive train set-up.
The cargo van variant for the U.S. will require greater range than that for Europe’s denser population as the population here is more sprawling with our suburban living style. From what I read GM has never built a cargo van. This is an excellent extension of the Voltec technology.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:23 am)The eyes kdawg are very sharp.
Good catch!
Bright Automotive is in Anderson, Indiana:
http://www.brightautomotive.com/vehicles
And we thought the Opel’s Vivaro e-Concept was ugly!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:24 am)Because GM believes, based on past (and current) experience, that when gasoline is under $3 a gallon, Americans don’t care about fuel economy? And given the state of the world economy–I doubt prices will start heading north anytime soon…
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:25 am)Electrified commercial vans should be a very hot market when the price of gas becomes even more unstable.
This concept is very similar to Bright Automotive’s IDEA hybrid electric van. GM already invested in this company so it appears they are working on a few different commerical ideas.
GM, You are very smart to be looking into the electrification of transportation industry. There will be commercial vans, trucks, buses and even trains. Don’t forget all that charging infrastructure. Talk about market potential. Virtually unlimited…
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:28 am)Are you seriously holding up Hitler as someone for GM to emulate?
Besides, Hitler had a captive market. He wasn’t trying to compete in cutthroat industry. Volkswagen didn’t become competitive until well after WWII. And the Russian version of the “people’s car” the Lada hasn’t exactly turned out all that well…
Basically, GM has to care about what its customers are going to be interested in buying. The “if we build it, they will buy it” attitude didn’t work very well for them in the 70s…
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:29 am)i’m assuming that herm was being sarcastic. it’s the safe bet.
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:41 am)Hi Laura,
I’ve lauded you and appreciated your commentary for eons, but c’mon – I deserve a swift apology for you suggesting I’m lauding Adoph Hitler! I know it’s early, and maybe you haven’t had your first cup o’ java, but please be serious!
I’m assuming you’re familiar that Hitler used the VW ( what became our “Beetle” ) as a carrot to the German people to lure them into Fascism. He pegged Porsche’s design and the Bug was born.****** I cannot believe you somehow twisted my post as endorsing one of the most evil humans to ever use up space! ***** The point is – obviously, that the Beetle went on to be, by far, the most successful mass produced vehicle ever built. I’m endorsing the Beetle, and using it’s success as an example of the opposite thinking – from what we’re experiencing from GM today.
I think my post makes it incredibly obvious I am using history to endorse thinking that proved unbelievable successful in gaining market share. Hitler was righteously dust only a few years after he started his inane , insane campaign to rule the world. The observation that the common working person needed mechanical personal transportation has gone on to become a raging success. Henry Ford predated him on this one. I think we can agree Henry was a visionary. But again, it is not Henry Ford, but his tactics and vision I applauded.
Hello?
RECHARGE!
James
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:42 am)**Off Topic**
I think that gm should have a cost of ownership calculator for the Volt on there site.
They could have inputs for individual electric rates. Typical weekly commute rt and typical weekend driving. As well as an input for normal long trips taken during the year and approx times able to charge fully during trip. Since they know the ~AER range and ~CS mode value; and yes they know this # gm has been doing this for years and know how the EPA runs there STANDARDIZED test when a cars source is the ICE(same test). Of course the calculator would need a disclaimer *Individual results will vary based on driving conditions and style* I think that this will give the consumer a better understanding of what the Volt accomplishes. I think the results will be so astonishing that some will think its smoke and mirrors. They could also compare it to the person’s current vehicle. A very powerful tool in my opinion. If not maybe we could get one made for this site, what do you think Lyle?
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:44 am)Electrified vehicles make so much sense for USPS, UPS, etc. They travel at low speeds and are constantly accelerating and stopping. The range extender would even allow it to function well in more rural areas. hopefully they can see the benefits. For some areas they rould need to be able to take extreme weather conditions as well as their current gas counterparts. The ones they have have been around for a while, so they must be dependable. So an EREV would need to be designed to be more rugged and really tested in those harsh conditions.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:46 am)Putting up a concept car and seeing if there is interest is a time honored technique. Consider, for example, Boeing announced the “Sonic Cruiser” that was supposed to fly a slightly over mach one. The market responded with a colossal yawn. Boeing sent out engineers and salesmen to the airlines with the 787 concept. The response was overwhelming. They told Boeing that if this plane was built, they would buy it. The 787 has about 600 orders on the books and, on paper at least, it is one of the most successful planes they have ever had. Alas, actually building the thing has turned out to be a challenge and a half but that doesn’t reflect on the good old approach of asking the customers what they want.
GM is definitely doing the right thing by raising the van idea up the flag pole and seeing who salutes it. More importantly, the comments on the vehicle are even more important. “I’d buy this van but only if …” would have greater value to GM.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:46 am)I’m still waiting for allocation update. I think we can do at least 20. I would like 24. Here’s to hoping…
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:48 am)It all depends on rpm required to travel a distance. We have heard 3800 rpm as the top running position (mountain mode). So normal highway driving for the Volt may require 2800 rpm?
My current 2.4L requires 2800 rpm to move 3500 pounds at 70mph. With a result of 28mpg.
A 1.4L ICE used during extended range driving is much more efficient than a 2.4L moving similar weight, (4 mpg)
Then add braking regen, (1 mpg)
a low drag body, (1 mpg)
low rolling resistance tires, (1 mpg)
and transmission free drivetrain. (2 mpg)
37mpg CS? Seems this number is coming up a lot lately.
First 40 on battery plus 37 CS = 77 mpg.
First 40 on battery, recharge at work, return 40 on battery = infinite mpg
We’re less than 3 months from the first owner typing the results here at gm volt dot com.
=D-Volt
+5
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:56 am)While this sounds like a promising step towards Voltec in larger vehicles such as pickups and SUVs: Commercial vehicle = expensive. They are wondering if businesses will take the higher up-front cost to save money in the long run (which a business is far more likely to do than an individual). I hope that business owners/buyers factor in such delivery-van money-sinks as starter motors (I once heard of a 6 – 8 man shop which did nothing but rebuilt starter motors from FedEx vans) and brake maintenance: A Voltec van would virtually eliminate both.
I really like the idea of the EREV postal van. It could even use range extension to reach the delivery area, and then switch to EV when actually visiting mailboxes; where the technology offers the most benefits. The only danger is that there is but one customer for postal vans in North America — what if GM develops the vehicle, only to hear: “No Thanks.”
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:09 am)Honestly, it’s a fine line between endorsing one of a person’s actions and bringing it up as something to emulate,and endorsing all of them. And there are lots of other visionaries you could have used. Maybe I’m just not used to hearing positive commentary on Hitler’s legacy. At least not without major qualification. But that’s how I read the post.
Henry Ford and Alfred Sloan were both great businessmen and visionaries. Neither were particularly admirable people. But their names are not synonymous with evil.
I never meant to imply that you endorsed Hitler’s actions. And I apologize if my post read that way. But if you look at any historical figure, there’s going to be good and bad. People are complicated. And I don’t think there’s any reason to focus on any good that Hitler may or may not have accomplished.
By as way, as far as the Volkwagen–it was designed by Mr. Porshe, not Hitler. And it would not have been successful without support from the British government, and then competent postwar German leadership.
As far as GM emulating it–what works for a totally new invention doesn’t necessarily work in a mature industry. Which the auto industry now is.
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:12 am)I agree completely that an EREV commercial van is the only solution for widespread adoption here in North America. Kudos for your extreme optimism and confidence you place in GM, sort of.
GM has been making commercial cargo vans for over a half century. In Europe, the Vauxhall Movano is kind of a smaller Sprinter and has been in use for several iterations.
Here are some GM cargo vans and concept cargo vans from history.
GM has lept at opportunities to market domestic versions of it’s European, Australian or Asian-produced econo or midsized passenger vehicles here so it’s a head scratcher why they sit on their hands and do market studies while the Daimler Sprinter van is as common of sight as a Starbucks or McDonald’s in America today. They have competitive commercial product in Europe today as do many others but to date the German Sprinter is without rival in the commercial market here. Again I speak of vision because a diesel fleet van or midsized commercial van is a no-brainer in the North American market.
So much for all the optimism. I saw GM’s “investment” in Bright as a way to control the technology and keep selling it’s ICE vans to small businesses for another 10 years or longer. Once more GM, lead, follow or get out of the way. And once again – how do we sit around and wonder how GM went bankrupt?
RECHARGE!
James
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:15 am)Did anyone catch in the video that he said the generator will charge the battery? I thought the battery was never charged by the generator. Either he is wrong or this is a different system then what will be in the volt.
On a positive note. IF they can build a van with a 1600+ pound hauling capacity it is looking real good for a Volt-1500 1/2 Ton Truck. Fingers crossed.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:16 am)I thank you for your comment in favor of the EV postal van. GM does sell vehicles to the USPS, but if they offer the Voltec version, the Fed can halp fund that development. Remeber that the U.S. Post Office was created by Ben Franklin, so it is more American than baseball, hot dogs, apple pie or even Chevrolet (who was Swiss)!
Raymond
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:17 am)In response to John, Kdawg and Dave, I think I can definitely say that I have no clue what the CS mileage will be in the city, but on the highway mileage I am positive that my guess will be wrong!
Seriously, though, the two things that give me hope that the CS mileage will be good, i.e. close to Weber’s claim that the Volt was on track to satisfy the stipulated 50 mpg in CS mode, are the two items that increase the Volts’ efficiency, one of which is frequently forgotten:
1) The Volt will spend most of its time with the genset operating at the optimal rpm for efficiency. Keeping it at the sweet spot unless you are climbing a long hill means that the Volt should get a good boost.
2) The Volt genset not only sends the electricity directly into the motor, it also sends the excess electricity into the battery, as the graph GM showed us repeatedly over the years shows. So the genset will go on when the battery depletes to 30% and it will supply power to the motor and to the battery until the battery is at 35%, whereupon the genset will shut off and stay off until you drive 2.5 to 3 miles. So your genset may be off 1/3 or 1/4 of the time you are in CS mode, thereby increasing your CS mileage to a noticeable extent.
Most of the time we are driving around, our cars are stooging along using only 15 or 20 horsepower, the genset of the Volt can supply a substantial amount of power to both the motor and to the battery pack in city driving without strain because it will only need to supply an amount slightly greater than the AVERAGE horsepower needed to propel the Volt.
Evil Cons, I just saw your post, and I have read a couple of statements by GM engineers that state clearly that the genset will not charge the battery fully, but it will charge the battery in a limited range to maximize efficiency, i.e. 30% to 35% or so.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:19 am)Oh, HELL YES!!
Make a passenger-capable version and I’m on the waiting list.
-10
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:28 am)(click to show comment)
-1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:51 am)Yes a van, No this Butt ugly thing, I cant see trading the wifes caravan for this cuz its just too ugly.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:53 am)I think you are right on the money here!!
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:55 am)The revs and torque needed to keep a vehicle moving at any speed depends on the rolling resistance and drag. If both items are reduced, the HP need is smaller. Anyone can probably push a car to move it, but if the rolling resistance is too high, breaking the initial inertia is difficult, and the car wouldn’t move at all. This is how I test my car’s efficiency. If I can push it until it reaches about 2 MPH easily (a fast walking pace), the tires have the best pressure and the car is in great shape. This is why I can get up to 25 MPG out of my 1995 Buick Regal Sedan with the 3.8L engine (I also coast a lot!). This method will work on any car, ICE or EV.
Raymond
+5
Sep 22nd, 2010 (12:07 pm)I just made a calculator and calculated with my driving habits. With a 38 mpg CS and 40 AER also an approx 17% loss in charging and my savings over 5 years is ~7600.00 over my current car with ~22 mpg. So here goes Volt $41000-$7500(tax credit)-$7600(operating cost savings)=$25,900. Not bad for a car with the expected quality of the Volt that is burning very little oil. Also this is if gas prices stay steady over 5 years. I did the same calculations for the Plug-in-Prius with 13 miles “AER” and 48 mpg “CS” these are just averaged because it is blended and I got half the cost savings for 5 years. It is important to note this is with my driving habits. I choose the Volt hands down, why choose the Prius when you can have a car with the styling of a Volt with the ~same cost of ownwership at the end of the day.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (12:08 pm)Price a diesel sprinter van when you get a chance.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (12:09 pm)This presentation is worth a look. Relevant because it explains how this concept fits in their longer term view of transport.
I hope I have the link right
http://www.slideshare.net/AllianceToSaveEnergy/stanek-mary-beth-panel-3
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (12:16 pm)GM will build what the public buys and stop building what the public stops buying.
That said:
Don’t buy or lease any New gasoline only powered cars!
Let’s do away with supply economics.
NPNS!
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (12:40 pm)I get 25mpg out of a 2005 5.7l Hemi V-8 without trying very hard. Never tried to push it with one human-power though.
Advances in computer controls and components have incrementally increased efficiency compared to 16 years ago. A 2011 Regal, for example, is now rated at 30mpg compared to 26mpg for 1995.
Revolutionary change (such as Volt) will make a more dramatic difference. Hopefully, we’ll see Volt here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm pretty soon.
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (1:06 pm)LauraM -
Precisely why GM needs to bring this Van – or something very close to it – to the US Market – and offer it with a variety of powertrain options. US Small and medium size businesses of all types are ready for a medium-sized cargo van. Some will LOVE the Voltec Powertrain and will pay for the privilidge of driving 40-60 miles per day all-electric. Others will drive significant miles daily and would LOVE a small diesel engine option. And for those on a real budget, just offer a 4-cylinder turbo. Any of these options will use less fuel than the current full size cargo vans offered by GM – and by offering a variety of powertrain options GM can hedge against their concern about fuel prices. I am confident that the VOLTEC powertrain would prove to be the best choice for most businesses.
GM: its time to stop taking opinion polls and time to bring a vehicle like this to the US – businesses are ready!
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (1:06 pm)Hi Laura,
After quite a shock, and then a rebuttal – Now I can step back and have a good laugh at someone suggesting I may wear swaztika pajamas!!!…. L
L . Truly, it is a first – that anyone – anywhere, in any way has even nearly suggested I endorsed Adolph in any stretch or form! L 
L So in that respect, it is very funny to me, indeed. Thanks for the laugh.
Also – As a car guy, and definately no intellectual – I must admit I usually sit on the sidelines as you and DonC go at it on those famous multi-post debates about the economy or geo-political issues. Sometimes I’m educated, or at least induced to web study about one of your topics, and sometimes, admittedly, I glaze over them or just roll my eyes and think: “These two need to get a room!” L
L – ( just kidding! )
Today, however, I have you …right where I want’cha!…haha…As you’ve stepped into a subject for which I have a little bit of knowledge.
I’m not alone in believing the two examples I gave are the most significant automobiles in human history. Significant in implementation, yes. Significant in sheer volumes of production, absolutely.But most significantly, in my opinion, in the leaps individuals and nations took in faith that this car would not only be a great seller but shift an entire paradigm in an industry.
The annals of human history will not delete the fact that Adolph ( nearly the devil himself ) Hitler played a most significant role in the car that was mass produced for 70 unprecedented years and sold over 23 million copies worldwide. There is no refuting he analyzed the Czech tech, fingered Porsche to develope and implement it, as they both historically identified it’s potential. To bleat that the Toyota Corolla ( 33 million sales since 1966 ) or the Ford F Series of trucks ( 31 million since 1948 ) are equally or near equal to the vaunted Beetle is plain silly. The Beetle grew out of a shattered German economy destroyed by war and until the last one rolled off the line in Puebla, Mexico in 2003, never ceased to amaze it’s critics as to how it basically defined entire new markets for human transportation.It paved a path for every affordable car to follow it for all time. As you’ve so aptly stated, every now and then, even the most despicable human being can have a good idea and this was one of them. To me, there is no “fine line” as to this point – The Bug was a damn good idea, and it was even smarter for a Germany under reconstruction to sell it to the world. Also probably “the” most prominent example how governments can spur economic recovery in the transportation spectrum.
People thinking this was some kind of fine line of endorsement would never have lauded Ferdinand Porsche as one of the founding fathers of the automobile and EV and the one of the fathers of the VW Bug and sole creator of the Porsche 911. People did not – not buy – a VW or Porsche because Hitler had his hand in their histories. A 1999 international poll for the world’s most influential car of the twentieth century the Beetle came fourth after the Ford Model T, the Mini, and the Citroën DS. I don’t think I should shy away from mentioning such a benchmark example because of a tyrant’s involvement.
I never said the Beetle was designed by Hitler…and if we want to split hairs, we can say the Volkswagen was designed by Hans Ledwinka Czechoslovakian Tatra’s chief engineer who pioneered and perfected the eventual Beetle’s air cooled design and whom was said “Ferdinand Porsche was looking over his shoulder when he designed the Volkswagen”, and who sued Porsche, but settled for the German government’s eventual three million dollar post-war recompense to settle the matter. We would also have to mention the American Army for liberating the Volkswagen factory and handing it over to the Brits, and the VW’s unsung hero, British army officer Ivan Hirst who single-handedly saved the Beetle factory from extinction and pursuaded the British army to order 20,000 vehicles for military use. The British auto industry turned up it’s nose at the Beetle and termed it “useless”.
Although these unsung heroes of the affordable compact car’s names will never be household words and would have made a completely unreadable point – we can say they and many others were the visionaries that identified and satisfied a pent-up, enormous market for a breakthrough industrial product. Today we are set in much the same way. Devastated economies struggling with debt and doubt – with oil’s imminent decline ahead of us and our national securities and freedoms at risk. And here are obvious solutions that do not seem so obvious to our friends in existing auto manufacturer’s minds. Just as the Beetle made no sense when Henry Ford II was offered it’s trademark, manufacturing rights and facilities as were all the major U.K.’s and all called it rediculous with no potential whatsoever.
Electrification, with all it’s challenges – is all we’ve got. Leave it to flailing companies to study, analyze and procrastinate. And perhaps, God forbid – we will see a repeat of history wherein China or some other foe will grasp this solution from our hands – just as Hitler and Porsche did the VW from the Czechs.
RECHARGE!
James
Sep 22nd, 2010 (1:13 pm)… and it’s way too expensive.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (1:24 pm)I would buy one for my business if I had use for it. Its not supposed to look pretty. No sane business person would buy a pure EV for work purposes at this point in time.
-7
Sep 22nd, 2010 (1:53 pm)What price did you use for the PHV Prius and did you include the $2,917 tax credit?
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (1:57 pm)If they can make a family version (people hauler) for under 40,000. They will sell like HOTCAKES! This is what I need and cannot haul all the family in the Volt! BTW love the song reference Corvetteguy!
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (1:59 pm)GM in America, needs to “Respect The Van” as stated in Honda’s recent ad campaigns.
I know we’re talking commercial van today – but what’s up with GM’s epic fail in the minivan sector?! We were forced to watch the numerous attempts GM ( and Ford….and Chrysler who invented it ) made to cut out a portion of the segment but with inferior product always seemingly a gen or two behind the competition. Then they just gave up.
Check out Toyota’s hilarious ( to parents ) “Swagger Wagon” award winning ad campaign
http://www.break.com/break-best-videos/toyota-sienna—swagger-wagon.html
Though experts believe the minivan market will continue to shrink – it’s a mystery to me, as they cite people avoiding the “mommy image” of buying one. Still, according to Edmunds.com, Honda’s Odyssey represents 9.6% of their total NA market share. It’s been as high as 14%(2002). For Toyota’s Sienna: 9.4%.
If GM made an EREV minivan approaching Odyssey and Sienna’s style and thoughtful convenience – there is no doubt my family would purchase one. Why they don’t stymies me.
With some folks ( who don’t have kids, or haven’t test-driven an Odyssey or Sienna in years ) minivans make zero sense. Drive one, think about the utility, practicality, versatility and yes, mileage ( 2011 Odyssey with 6 speed auto – out Sept 30 boasts 28 mpg Hwy – 19 city ) and suddenly they make a whole lot of sense.
Go to this very informative article about Honda and Toyota’s minivans and wonder why GM can’t seem to get a handle on this market.
http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/09/look-out-toyota-theres-a-new-honda-minivan-in-town.html
RECHARGE!
James
Sep 22nd, 2010 (2:08 pm)The EREV concept only makes sense when you travel most days within the EV range but sometimes (once a week or month depending on how good CS mode is) need to drive a lot more with the same car. I don’t think this is the typical driving pattern for a Cargo Van.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (2:35 pm)I suppose GM is waiting for the EPA to release an “official” MPG estimate that will go on the sticker in November, so they are not accused again of “inflating” the figure.
We’ll know soon enough.
But I wonder how the EPA handles the various “modes” of new cars ? Sport, ECO, Normal, etc.
For example, the new Lexus CT 200h (due Q1 2011) supposedly has an EPA combined MPG of 42:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/09/2011-lexus-ct-200h-hybrid-to-get-combined-epa-rated-42-mpg-toyota-says.html
Yet it has four driving modes – Normal, Eco, Sport and EV:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/09/ct200h-20100903.html
Does the EPA choose the best MPG possible ? The worst ? I couldn’t find the answer with a quick check of the EPA site: http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/
The Volt has Eco, Normal, Sports and Mountain mode. I wonder how much the MPG will be affected depending on which mode the EPA tests with ?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
It will certainly affect the CS mode MPG for regular drivers.
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (2:41 pm)Well I could see hospitals using them as ambulances for people who are sick or injured. Also here are some other jobs that I think this electric van would be great for in the business world. Plumbers, electricians, cable and satellite TV providers, stores that have warehouses, people who have disabilities such as one’s who can not walk that have to use a wheelchair in there daily lives. Also I could see these as ice cream trucks but when there not playing there music they’ll need some sort of sound like the Volt to get the attention of people so they know when the vehicle is approaching them so there aware of it.Last but not least Fed EX and UPS might be able to use these vans as there trucks. If one van is close to reaching the 310 mile range all they need to do is switch vans so they can recharge and fill up while the other van can continue on the journey to the costumers house so the packages are right on time when being delivered. What do you think of my ideas I thought they were great what about you?
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (3:13 pm)It seems like GM is doing much of it’s R & D abroad.
There’s the New Sail EV and the MPV5 EREV in Asia.
There are now 2 EREV Opel concepts from Europe, this commerecial van and the luxury flextreme, plus the recent Meriva EV.
It almost seems like there’s too much scrutiny, too much heat, here in the states for a poor car company to work on its stuff in peace.
Is the initiative killing hand of the federal government’s meddling interference at work here? Could be.
-3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (3:27 pm)Amen. … I’m with you on that one brother. The federal government should’ve hung on to the $50 billion and stayed out of GM’s business entirely!
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (3:55 pm)CookJ, I agree that a web-interface calculator/comparison tool would be very enlightening and would also like to see maintenance factored in (which should be less than to a pure ICE vehicle).
I created an excel spreadsheet that will calculate much of this for you. You just have to plug in your assumptions and driving schedule. It does a complete fuel cost (gas and electric) comparison between 3 vehicle types (Volt, Hybrid and ICE) for your custom driving schedule. I put it on a fairly clunky free file share service that you can access here http://www.4shared.com/document/JH4EIh80/Your_Mileage_May_Vary.html you just have to wait 20 seconds while they try to get you to buy their premium service.
I have offered it on the forum before but have had very few downloads and zero comments, not sure why but I find it a pretty useful tool for cost comparisons and what if scenarios. If anybody knows of a better file share service please let me know.
-7
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:02 pm)Assumptions differ from real-world rather dramatically. The daily-driving data I’ve been collecting since August 2009 points that out well. It boils down to there being much more variety than people realize.
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:13 pm)True, but you can learn a lot by trying various different assumptions to see how it affects the bottom line. Also, don’t your real-world results tend to average out somewhat over time?
-1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:15 pm)Sorry, can’t find anyone on the web in a quick search who doesn’t want my contact information first, before offering a ‘quote.’ They’re made by Mercedes, and look fairly expensive. In Atlanta, they are offered through RBM, the premiere Mercedes dealership.
Not sure where you’re coming from with this comment, but consider my statement this way (I could have been clearer):
“A Voltec system offered only in a Commercial vehicle = too expensive for the consumer market.”
There’s a reason why they’re testing the waters here instead of in a consumer truck or SUV.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:22 pm)You’re right, several of Lyle’s GM contacts have admitted this in earlier posts.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:22 pm)Or here’s a better idea Fed EX and UPS can do battery swaps and fueling while they can get on the road in a quicker and more efficient manner while not wasting up there time when sending there packages to there costumers in no time!
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:29 pm)Navistar recieved $32.9 million in stimulus money. Lately, we’ve seen their TV spots for electric trucks.
Where there Modec partnership and EV trucks end up , time will tell.
It is obvious the EREV formula for North America has much more upside although cost is a factor. Less room in back for goods and tools – no ” Range Anxiety TM ” for the client. What kind of government incentives are on the table for companies to pony up?
RECHARGE!
James
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:31 pm)Also I don’t get it that this vehicle may not come to the US but still I already had some great ideas in my head as you’ve notice on my other comments maybe just maybe we will see something similar in the future let’s just hope so and cross our fingers when that day comes?
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:35 pm)It seems to me that battery swap (in a large country like ours) makes sense only for a captive company fleet like this; where there is no concern over maintaining battery standardization over a range of vehicles (and in a situation where extra packs, chargers and swapping-stations can perhaps be justified on a careful cost-accounting basis). I still would expect this to cost far more than purchasing EREV-based delivery vans (which can potentially ‘deliver’ most of the benefits of battery-swap BEV vans, but without these extra costs).
I would think that, the larger the operation (UPS, FedEx, etc), the more likely battery-swap might be considered (due to greater multiplication of smaller efficiency improvements). Such an approach would also require a great deal of route-analysis and automation to keep the vans from running out of charge away from a swap station. Many of the largest operations already have inventory tracking technologies which could be modified for this. Give it a few years and we may see something of the sort appear. It all depends on battery cost, petroleum cost/availability, and how (or if) government intervenes (business owners may dig in their heels for mandates, but would jump through the hoop for tax credits, perhaps).
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:38 pm)Way to go James! Now were talking now if only if we could have trucks like those for both Fed EX and UPS in the USA then maybe we could finally not have to worry about anymore emissions when doing online orders your the man James bring it on!
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:44 pm)The cost saving was for the PIP at ~38,000 with a tax credit, They are not concrete figures for the Prius right now; but reguardless, personally I would pay 4000.00 more for the Volt in total cost of ownership just based on styling alone. The Volt actually looks like a normal car. If it didn’t have the Volt badge nobody would know the dif. On the other hand with the Prius, it’s like a red flag “look I’m a hybrid”. Same with the Leaf “look I’m all electric”.
-4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:46 pm)That was the most interesting part I learned from the effort… they don’t.
There simply wasn’t any pattern that emerged. The demands of life prevent any type of routine. You run to the store, a friends house, get food, entertainment, etc.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:51 pm)If it was on this site or gm’s it would probably be used more. I think people are hesitent to download stuff sometimes. I basically did the same thing for myself taking into account elec\gas rates for local area and driving habits. The maintenance cost thing is a good idea but to early to make any major predictions about it. I do believe it will be cheaper than a normal ICE but only time will really tell. Thanks!
+4
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:54 pm)John isn’t here to learn, professor; he’s here to teach. You’d be surprised how quickly any Volt-related subject can be ‘jacked into a Prius thread by John and Seawolf.
The best advice concerning them is: do not engage. Just vote [-1] if you wish, and move on.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (4:59 pm)Sorry that was ~$33,000.00
Prius 33000-3000tax credit-3500operational cost sav=$26500
On the low end it might be around ~28000.00-3000-3500=$21500
These are just guestimates as the real price hasn’t been released and if the PHV is 5000 over the premium model only. I’m not slaming the Prius, just giving my personal view. And the savings were based on my driving habits!
Sep 22nd, 2010 (5:13 pm)We’ve only been talking about this since the day one, LOL. Helloooo???
I wonder how many times CaptJack has begged for a Voltec pickup? 100? 1000?
Sep 22nd, 2010 (5:31 pm)This concept in the real world would be most likely be recharged during the day between delivery routes, maybe 2-3 times a day. Also heavy users will opt for the 220vlt charger, giving daily ranges of well over 100 miles EV in mixed urban use (assuming Voltec Std capability).
My many years of running different business’s with P/U & delivery requirements, makes me think this type of van could reduce costs, & promote a very green image. Two Very good things.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (5:42 pm)I never meant to say or imply anything of the kind. If my post read that way, again, I apologize.
Agreed. They are the most significant automobiles. And you clearly know a lot more about auto history than I do. However, as you pointed out, there are other people who could have gotten credit. Hitler may have played a part in it, but you could have made your point without bringing him up. So why do it?
But there are numerous other examples of products where someone had a vision, and went with it, and it worked. Thomas Edison and the light bulb. Pfizer’s application of deep tank fermentation to penicillin that made large scale production of antibiotics possible for the first time. Bill Gates (and/or Steve Jobs) and the PC. (And, yes, there are numerous other people who deserve credit.) More recently, Steve Jobs and the Ipod. Even Microsoft and the xbox.
First of all, hopefully, China’s going to go electric regardless of what we do. And, the whole world will be better for it. The less gasoline any one person or country uses, the better off everyone else is.
Obviously, we’d be better off if we do it first and, therefore, attain the technological lead. However, the Chinese government is in a much better position to get Chinese consumers to buy electric cars than GM is to interest US consumers when the US government is having a panic attack at the very thought of reducing gasoline subsidies.
That doesn’t mean that GM shouldn’t bring this concept here. I just think that it makes sense to do marketing research to see if there’s demand. And if so how much. A lot depends on how much they’d have to charge in order to make a profit…
Sep 22nd, 2010 (5:44 pm)OT, but worth sharing…
Story on Bloomberg News today about China’s government plan may force automakers to surrender electric-vehicle technology in return for selling cars in the world’s most populous nation.
I don’t know about everyone else here, but I want to see this technology advantage stay right here in the US. Our long-term national economic health relies on taking and keeping a global lead in advanced alternative propulsion technology. While there is no way to stop technology from becoming global, there is certainly an appropriate time to protect the assets we’ve invested in. China has proven itself good at one thing: copying what others have developed and just doing it cheaper. The Chinese economy is changing; their labor force is beginning to command higher wages; and they are looking for more advanced technology to fuel that growth. WE NEED TO PROTECT US JOBS AND WE CANNOT AFFORD TO HAND OVER THE KEYS TO THE VAULT. JMHO!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-22/house-s-dingell-outraged-by-report-china-seeks-technology-swap.html
-2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:12 pm)I went to look at a new silverado hybrid pickup and its 38k vs a reg pickup of 24k, Its a 2mode system that lets the truck go up to 29 mph on its 2 60 hp electric motors before the 6.2 liter ice kicks in. The interior of the hybrid has a crappy cheap dashboard, and you cant get the deluxe fancy dash like the regular truck has either as a option. In all its ugly and 14k price premium over the reg truck is too much for the slight gas mileage difference. I will wait for them to get off their butt and put a voltec system under the hood. Probably will be 2015 or so. Did you know it only cost GM 15k to build a crew cab silverado, what a price premium they make on the thing, guess that’s what kept them afloat all these years, it is there bread and butter.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:22 pm)Thanks CorvetteGuy for letting us know. Waiting with (a)bated breath!
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:24 pm)Herm, I don’t think anyone got the joke.
And it went flying over one guy’s head
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:25 pm)I agree that someday there will be a Voltec truck, but it won’t be a Silverado. A Voltec system will not have the long-range towing capability of the 2-Mode Silverado. It does have a 25% increase in fuel efficiency over the standard 5.3L V8… but I’m hoping they put a Voltec system in an all-new Chevy El Camino!
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:33 pm)Here is the proper Voltec Chevy Truck:
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:40 pm)A Voltec-Powered El Camino should replace the HHR… like, immediately! (If not sooner.)
Sep 22nd, 2010 (6:44 pm)Most excellent.
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:13 pm)OK, you have my interest…
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:17 pm)Will it drive to the North pole?
Well *I* have no intention of driving to the north pole, but I might like to look like I could…
Will it be red?
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:29 pm)Will it be Hotter than a Volcano???
Will it set the world on fire?
http://jalopnik.com/5518997/top-gear-summits-icelandic-volcano-hours-before-eruption
+8
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:31 pm)Of course it will be red!!!
Be well,
Tagamet
+6
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:33 pm)Of course, it will set the world on fire!!!!
Be well,
Tagamet
+7
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:38 pm)If it’s sitting in my driveway it will be!
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:41 pm)We’re using Ford Transit Connects now. We’d switch to this if produced and pricing made sense. The Transit is about 20k. These would be a no-sale at 40k. They would be competitive at 25k and probably a no-go at 30k as the Sprinter is about 30k. The payload for this is only 750kg (1600 pounds) which is the same as the Transit but would be to small to compete with the larger Sprinter vans.
IMHO…
Neil
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:47 pm)Will it be a *BLAST* to drive through a snow bank?
Yes I think they should have used a Colorado….
They however have the color right!
Cheers
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:54 pm)Can I go for a ride?
+13
Sep 22nd, 2010 (7:54 pm)Seems logically challenged to me. If a Volt with a 1.4L engine is a Cruze with a 1.4L engine then a Prius with a 1.8L engine is a Corolla with a 1.8L engine. What MPG does a Corolla get? 30 MPG? According to you the Prius should get 40 MPG? But it gets 50 MPG.
Basically what you’re looking at for both the Prius and the Volt is how regen and electrical assist changes MPG. If Toyota can get an additional 20 MPG out of the combination then GM, with greatly superior regen because: 1 better regen because of a vastly larger battery 2 as you mention, the Volt’s engine can run at optimal speeds, which the Prius’ can’t.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:05 pm)Agreed. Seems the Volts engine will only run at peak efficiency. It will not be tied, and thus hindered by vehicular speed.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:14 pm)Her point was that GM is not a government so it’s not realistic to suggest GM should use a successful government template. I didn’t read anything she wrote as remotely suggesting anything about your political leanings.
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:15 pm)Sounds like it’d be worth the trip just to see it! (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:19 pm)OK, so which is it? Hot and red, or Cold and white? Jung and I (collectively) vote for Hot and red!!
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:24 pm)Good to see someone explaining a high side surprise. Will GM will sit back and allow the road test web sites and word of mouth sell the Volt? Or will they advertise specs, features, and benefits? With just two months until the start of production. Looks like it’s option A.
=D-Volt
+6
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:26 pm)A Voltec-Powered Chevy El Camino (in Crystal Red) would also be a fantastic commuter vehicle with even better AER. It would only have 2 seats, and the rest would be a pickup bed. Very little weight. Plus, it would be freekin’ cool looking. I would love to see that someday soon.
+3
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:26 pm)He also seems to think that regen only counts when the Volt is in CD mode. It seems more reasonable to assume that the Volt is going to use those kWh gained by regen and not leave them in the battery.
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:37 pm)I agree that it’s likely going to be option “A”, if for no other reason that that’s all they *have* to do. Now, if they were all ramped up and shipping 200,000 Volts (or even 60.000), that’d be a different story.
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:43 pm)What are your yearly fuel costs with the transits?
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:44 pm)Sounds great to me! And what a neat vehicle to take to the drive-in movie! They could make the truck bed a solid (thin) battery, or even just make it “U” shaped, lining the edge. I wonder what the Cd would be (including the keg)? (lol)
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (8:53 pm)Yes, I regularly max out the capacity to hold regen in my Prius’s battery. That would be a few hundred feet of altitude change. The mountain mode would provide even a better ability to hold a large charge. Maybe a few thousand feet? That would translate to ten miles or so of a free ride.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:00 pm)I dream of Voltec that is Red Hot on the outside, Cool and Pure on the inside…
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:02 pm)Shouldn’t this read, “Plug-In Pizza”?
=D-Volt
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:02 pm)Works for me! (on SO many levels…)
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:05 pm)I was sure that they just misspelled Viagra.
Be well,
Tagamet
/on *that* note, I’d better close… night.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:07 pm)GM design staff, take note: See above, make it Cool Looking!
/Personal Mantra: No boring cars
-5
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:20 pm)Quick assessment will do that. Take a closer look at engine design and configuration. I suggest a comparison with Civic and its hybrid.
-10
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:26 pm)(click to show comment)
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:48 pm)As far as regen I think in most driving conditions the prius battery captures most of the regen it recieves. It was really designed to gain regen from city driving not mountain decents. Having said that the Volt will have a regen advantage because of this. The other lost regen in this point would be a fast spike in regen (steep decline, brake slam) that the battery power desity can not handle this and the only way to account for this would be a bank of ultra caps but they take up space. I do think the Volt has a slight advatage with regen over a long period of time as well as with selective consistant ICE rpm range. I would hope that it would be enough to give a CS mpg >40mpg but in my opinion we are still looking at ~38 mpg for an average highway drive. In my calculator that I talked about in previous posts if I use a CS mpg of 50 vs. 38 it’s only a 200.00 difference over five years with my driving habits. This shows the power of the Volt!!!!
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:49 pm)OT.
Paris auto show is next week. Chevrolet is supposed to have a full line-up in the show (including Volt).
Maybe CorvetteGuy’s ‘Camino will be there!
also OT.
The local half-price-books is installing charging stations.
Gonna be an interesting couple of months coming up.
-2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:51 pm)Disagreeing with people is not a reason to give negative votes, it’s childish!!
Come on people!!!! I see this a lot on this site.
-1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (9:57 pm)Sorry, but you would have to compare a camry to a camry hybrid and there are many reasons for this, the Cruze and Volt are more similar than a camry and the prius. You do make a good point but there is more to it than just engine size.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:01 pm)Sorry I thought you talking about the Camry, but some of what I said still applies.
-2
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:07 pm)100% right on the money, but maybe people don’t actually know how they are supposed to use the +/- vote in a mature manner.
+6
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:19 pm)Hate to pick nits with a Chevy sales person, but I think it’s the SSR that would be replaced, but like yesterday.
+6
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:21 pm)I think there is a lot of pent-up demand for this kind of vehicle. The El Camino hasn’t been available new for quite some time, but the memory still leaves a lasting, fond impression (I actually knew someone who got one somehow that was made in Mexico from the old stampers — this was almost 15 years ago, and it was unusual then.) The fact that it seems intended for Voltec is a major plus. An El Voltino would sit lower than the MPV5 concept, and I bet it would get better AER on 16 kwh than the MPV’s 30 (if not the Volt’s 40).
If GM manages to go easy on the fancy gizmos, and sells it at a good price, Cap’n Jack would be well pleased. And, I think, he’d have a lot of company.
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:23 pm)You state this like it is some kind of inherent fact. Why wouldn’t an EREV60 make more practical sense for driving 80 miles/day vs 50miles/day? EVs make most more sense the more the battery gets used. Those used less will lose more battery capacity to the calendar and thus make less practical sense.
+1
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:29 pm)In the most general sense, you may be right. However, if you had put up with some of these clowns for as long as we have, you’d have a very different opinion.
For some, the exception is the rule — and well deserved too.
-7
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:51 pm)Did you miss the recent news that PHV Prius would have $3k-$5k premium over a standard Prius? With the tax credit it becomes no brainer IMO.
-8
Sep 22nd, 2010 (10:56 pm)Corolla 1.8L runs on Otto cycle but the Prius 1.8L runs on Atkinson cycle. AFAIK, Volt will run on the same Otto cycle as the Cruze.
+10
Sep 22nd, 2010 (11:35 pm)The SSR was a big mistake by GM. They chose it over the remake of the Chevy Nomad. Then Dodge comes out with the Magnum (a Nomad look alike) and sells a bazillion of them. GM should not repeat that error. They should build a Voltec El Camino before someone else does.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (12:28 am)Just saying the SSR was a two seater small platform truck, like what you are envisioning. The El Camino was actually a pretty large vehicle. Did you mean something that big?
It’s not a big deal (I’m just sort of passing time), but the HHR serves a very different purpose. I wouldn’t mind having one.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (1:19 am)Atleast make a good van ( this looks so old ) compare this looks to Mercedes-Benz Sprinter or Hyundai Starex
This is Nissan Primastar and just saying its has a voltec powertrain. Calling it a concept is a joke.
+1
Sep 23rd, 2010 (4:57 am)I believe it’s the letting up of the accelerator that provides regen. Applying the brakes on downgrades lessens the opportunity for regen. The efficiency ball on the Volt is a great tutorial and tool to maximize mpg.
As many here know, I sometimes drive an electric GEM car at work. It tops out at 25mph. The fun part is how it gives all it has when the accelerator is punched. The Volt is going to be a fun daily driver. Should save $1000 per year at the gasoline pump without even trying.
=D-Volt
Sep 23rd, 2010 (6:26 am)The EPA hwy cycles dont test the cars at a constant speed thus regen would come into play, but not as much as a city cycle obviously.
Think of Voltec as a 100 step, fast shifting transmission with extensive brake regen.. the computer will instantly choose the most efficient “gear” for your car to be in, no matter what the conditions are. Similar to a Prius but with a more efficient electric path due to the AC induction motors and the use of lithium batteries.. lithium batteries are about 10% more efficient than nimh. I believe the Volt will match or exceed the 50mpg hwy mileage of the Prius, if driven like a Prius.. if you start hooning it then thats a different story.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (7:48 am)So… they’re intentionally choosing not to compete in the 50 MPG non-plug market?
Sep 23rd, 2010 (9:12 am)Afloat?
Sep 23rd, 2010 (9:14 am)Also during the aplication of the brakes they could get regen by increasing the load of the battery on the regen circuitry. Not sure if they are doing this but it could be done through active circuitry. I would imagine they are doing it. The harder you press the brake the more the regen circuit see the battery load. Only using the brakes themsevles when full load of the bat is placed on the regen or a better way to look at it is full load of batt is on the regen motor.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (9:19 am)I truly understand but stooping to others levels makes you look as bad as them. Everyone can see they are reaching! However I also think some of the Volt supporters reach and it doesn’t help there case.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (9:24 am)I corrected myself on this and said 33,000 on the top end. We will see the actual figures when they come out. I do think the Prius will have a market but I think the Volt covers more of the driving public.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (9:42 am)Volt requires a plug. There isn’t a non-plug model planned. No choice means less market.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (11:08 am)Irregardless of the drivetrain, that’s a nice looking van.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (6:06 pm)In the long run I think you are wrong about this, it will be a slow transition.
Sep 23rd, 2010 (10:31 pm)We get 22-25 mpg. We’re running ~20k miles. In NC we’re sub $1.75 for fuel.
$1400 – 1590 with those numbers
Sep 24th, 2010 (6:52 am)I heard about big pizzas in the US of A, but i think for 99,9% of all pizza shops this transporter is far to big. The Opel Vivaro is build in cooperation with Renault and Nissan. Renault named it ‘Trafic’. Nissan ‘Primastar’ A friend (electrician) uses one. My uncle too. These Opel/Renault/Nissan transporters are used often in by all kind of business types.
Sep 25th, 2010 (7:54 am)Awesome Post, thanks for the fine Post. I will come back later . Great information about ipad : ipad
Sep 25th, 2010 (9:15 am)Thank you really much for the game assessment. I believe I will need to proceed to purchase it down the road!