[ad#post_ad]When GM first introduced the Volt concept in January 2007, it was met with tremendous public enthusiasm. Indeed this very site was born of that sentiment. Faced with this strong public interest, GM’s communications department decided early on they would be very open and transparent with the Volt development process. This transparency and outreach to unconventional media led me to be invited to GM headquarters within four months of starting this site. It was also a method of improving their image with an often skeptical public.
Since then GM has marched through a very carefully planned and choreographed campaign, gradually teasing out the details of the car’s development, design and finally most recently merging into the marketing and rollout phase.
We are also well aware GM is also planning second and even third generations of the car which will improve on the design and cost less to manufacture and sell. However, there is little detail on these future versions of the car. I asked whether GM will continue its transparency approach to these future vehicles.
“We will not be as transparent on the Gen 2 VOLT and VOLTec offerings in the future product plan,” said Volt director Tony Posawatz. ”We will continue to share our learnings as VOLT is launched and rolled out and people need to educated on the virtues of electrified transportation.”
Rob Peterson of Volt communications was a little less sure.
“We’re still trying to get Gen1 to the dealers,” said Peterson. ”We don’t want to confuse the message,” he said by discussing too much the next version of the car.
In due time, though, GM will feed us news.
“We’ll talk about Gen 2 as it becomes appropriate,” he said.
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This entry was posted on Tuesday, September 7th, 2010 at 6:18 am and is filed under Next Generation. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+24
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:25 am)“In due time, though, GM will feed us news.”
“We’ll talk about Gen 2 as it becomes appropriate,” he said.
Definitely do not want to talk about anything that will disrupt the forward momentum. Don’t want to encourage people to “wait for gen2″ — enough people will be doing that because they have no choice.
+11
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:25 am)This makes sense.
Giving a “leg-up” to the competition will only push the competition to do better than GM, leaving GM in the dust.
It is better to stay quiet. I realize this didn’t happen this time, but I can’t count Toyota out yet. They are smart people and won’t like being left behind for too long.
+4
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:26 am)This is great buy the time I am able to buy one it will be better and cost less !!!!!!!!!
GO GM
Tom
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:27 am)I really do have mixed feelings though about selling Volts in China. It could work out just fine. But it darn well better result in ramping up production to a higher level.
+16
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:32 am)That includes me. But not because I can’t afford it…I can.
My wife told me no because the car is too expensive.
She agrees with all of my arguments for it, but still says no.
At the end of day, (literally) I do have to sleep next to her.
It is better that I listen.
+18
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:41 am)Rashid–You are a wise man.
+4
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:46 am)If not for this site, we would probably have only thought that the Volt test cars were some top secret special version of the Cruze, and only now be finding out that that this car called Volt is something very special indeed.
+6
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:48 am)For those of you not already familiar with it, read about the Osborne effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:52 am)Many on this site have already commented that one rumored characteristic or another would cause them to wait for a gen 2 or 3 Volt. If I, for example, ever heard that Chevy was going to produce a station wagon version of the Volt — not the ungainly MPV5 — I’d go into waiting mode. It’s good marketing sense by GM to avoid killing current sales by holding back information about future products.
-4
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:56 am)Most of those smart people you are talking about are Americans from California and from American colleges throughout the USA! If they can not get the technology in any other way, they steal it.
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:11 am)Well I think we can say it will definitely be at least one of those two.
In the lease-vs-buy discussion on Sunday, some were presuming that GEN2 would be a better car, but I’m not so sure. I guess we’ll see.
+10
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:12 am)The simple fact that all of the other manufacturers have stopped bashing the Volt kind of tells me that they are probably working on their own versions of EREV or BEV. The writing is on the wall, and they are not stupid. But on the other hand, they are not giving us a hard date of release like GM did. But I think that was a once in a lifetime event. For competitive reasons, new models will be developed and marketed by GM just like they always have.
This could have been a real disaster for GM, if the idea didn’t work. The fact that it does, is a real testament to the engineers and everyone else at GM. Well, except maybe for the marketing people that came up with the Volt dance…..
Because of that transparency, I am giving GM lots of bonus points on their vehicle, should there be competition when I can finally be able to order one at my local dealership in Ohio. But it really would be nice to know when that will happen!
Go GM!! Go GM Volt Team!!
NPNS
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:16 am)Oh, I didn’t realize the Prius came from the US. I always thought it originated from Japan.
My mistake…..oh wait.
The Japanese are not dummies. And to be clear, my comments were directed towards them, not to our own highly educated work force.
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:16 am)Yes, let’s keep focus on Gen I. A great model to follow is the video game industry. They know just how to make their customers salivate with each new product.
After GM gets the Volt out and nobody, and I mean nobody has an answer, I think GM will gain back it’s old high-tech swagger and can be more cool this time around. As long as they keep pumping out those Volts and price them for volume sales, they will have tremenous green credibility and the old EV1 nighmare will soon be forgiven. “Hey, we wanted to do the
EV1 but the batteries and the pure EV model just didn’t work at that time…”,. they can proclaim.
Go GM! Lead the transition to electrification.
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:22 am)You beat me to saying it. Talking about the “next big product” can cause people to want to wait for its next iteration, but really, in this case there is just so much demand and such a low production cap that sales cannot be hurt. The Volt will be sold out for the next 2 years; even before they hit the show room floor. Personally, the second generation Volt could fly, but I’d still want to get a first generation Volt.
As for transparency, GM was very selective with the disclosures and milking the halo that comes with it. Further the disclosures were because of public interest, need to impress for government investment, and the Lyle factor! As such, I admit GM said more about the Volt openly than past cars leading up to production, but it’s not like they handed out the schematics.
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:29 am)Been following a lot of links from the previous blog about peak oil and the coming economic disaster it will cause. Don’t know how bad it will be, but I suspect this “recession” is permanent. EREVs and BEVs will be the only saleable cars in 10 years, maybe a lot sooner as many project 2016 as being a pivotal year and gas prices will soar. Start planning for a leaner future.
+6
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:45 am)Has GM officially called the 2012 Volt “gen 2″? From what Bob Lutz has said the gen 1 Volt will be it for a few years. I expect the 2012 Volt to be more of a gen 1.2 model. E85 fuel usability will be added. Probably a few sp2 features in the software. Don’t expect to see any body modifications. More interior options for sure. I heard one unnamed GM employee mention that gen 1 was over engineered. With the possibility for less battery systems control in the future. Leading to lower cost to manufacture.
Looking forward 10 years. Those who had purchased gen 1 through gen 1.4 will see a stock replacement T battery priced at $3k-$4k. With an upgrade T battery available at $8k to $9k. This is one reason I’m not at all concerned with future battery replacement on the gen 1 Volt. May even see an upside surprise on battery life. Can’t wait to drive one on a daily basis.
=D-Volt
BTW: Read an above comment mentioning “the wife”. Yesterday my wife made the mental leap forward to accepting our new Volt. This is huge.
-7
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:16 am)Gen-2 must address goals Gen-1 did not… specifically better Price, Emission-Rating, and CS-mode.
All are topics GM would have preferred less attention to anyway. So, it only makes sense that improvements to them would be kept quiet. In other words, in could mean lesson learned about “over promise, under deliver“. Perhaps this is a positive a sign of change.
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:17 am)My wife has accepted the Volt as well but says I have become very cheap in the meantime (saving money for my Volt). She is right you know. With the Volt selling for much more than I was really willing to spend, I have to save about 5K by March when my previously ordered Volt will be delivered. I did not get an order number. I wonder why. Michigan is not one of the first rollout areas like Washignton DC and Southern California I guess. Still it is a little un-nerving to hear several of you including Lyle that got their order numbers right away. I sure hope it is true about the high capacity replacement battery in a few years.
Take Care,
TED
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:23 am)AND don’t forget better fuel economy in Charge Sustaining mode by using a small generator engine in future versions. 38 MPG is no longer going to get it in the future itineration of the Volt.
-17
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:24 am)(click to show comment)
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:27 am)I was given an order number a month ago. The manager said, “It’s in the pipeline”. We will talk more when options are priced before the actual final order goes through. He is not promising a delivery by December 31st. Says it could be the end of December. This is when his first shipment will tentatively arrive.
=D-Volt
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:39 am)My dealer placed my order over a month ago and told me my volt will be delivered in March 2011. I ordered my options and fancy wheels, interior trim and white diamond pearl exterior but still no order number!!!
Take Care,
TED
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:45 am)So they won’t announce Gen 2 charge-sustaining mode MPG until a year after they start selling it?
Just kidding. It’s the right move. The Osbourne effect referenced by Chris C. above can be a killer.
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:50 am)“We’ll talk about Gen 2 as it becomes appropriate,” he said. = “Stay tuned”
+13
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:51 am)Hmmm wives … I’ve got one of those, have had her for coming on 30 years. Mine doesn’t want me to get a car for $35K either but I still have a Volt on order. If I had only wanted to buy a bike to save on gas she would have fought me to get one for $500 not $1000. Something about these wives, they think they need to save every penny so when you’re old, you can go live in a assisted living facility for $5K per month.
So I have several strategies to get mine to accept this purchase. I figure over the next 3 months I should be able to wear her down.
Mine doesn’t believe there will be any oil shortages for 100s of years so I sent her the Peak Oil article. We haven’t talked about that yet. I don’t talk much about the Volt directly since that gets her fired up.
Anyway, I am a little more headstrong than some of the posters above and have gotten my wife to accept larger prices with quality of the item arguments (Apple computers, a 56in Panasonic plasma TV). This car is a big one though.
Another pitch is typical of the car salesman. It goes, I would be buying at least a $25K car anyway and the extra $10K of this car will only cost $100/month more in the loan. I am also hoping to get a bonus in Dec. to help pay for it and told her it depended on that (like Chevy Chase in Xmas Vacation).
I am determined to get this car. I am running with the blinders on regarding cheaper/better Gen 2 versions. I see the Gen 1 Volt purchase as a once in a lifetime opportunity. Some wives/people don’t see it that way.
Any other suggestions to get your better half to accept the purchase are welcome.
-Book
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:52 am)Gen II probably won’t hit the showrooms until 2014 or 2015. It’s a little early to be talking about plans that far down the road.
I can see GM making tweaks to the Gen I design, but, not major changes (like a different genset). I’m thinking there will be other Voltec models out before Gen II Volt.
Here’s hoping one of those ‘tweaks’ is an SS trim Volt!
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:54 am)Thank You Jimmy Carter
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:54 am)I have an order number but barely no contact with the dealer. They still say “will advise” in their system. I’m working with Angie from GM to try and get me more concrete info. Lyle’s heads up the other day that a black trim would result in big delays was the first I’d heard of it.
Hoping I can still get my Volt as close to November as possible, but I’m getting more and more pessimistic.
join thE REVolution
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:01 am)Just an FYI, it’s looking like only the black on black trim is the problem. I, and others, have ordered the neutral leather seats with dark accents and haven’t been told it will be delayed.
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:07 am)If there won’t be much news being pre-released about generations 2 and 3, what will feed my addiction to GM-Volt.com?
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:13 am)I would expect GM to hold their cards closer to their chest with the upcoming Gen. 2 and 3 vehicles. With Gen. 1, being highly transparent (which is extremely welcome and refreshing to see) was necessary in that there is much to be learned with a new technology. With Gen. 2, many people will understand the technology/philosophy, but want/expect a lower price among other things. I can’t afford to be in the early adopter club but I appreciate those who are.
The things I look forward to in future generations of the Voltec (if you are listening GM???):
1. Less Expensive. If a Volt with AER of 40-50 miles, nicely equipped could be offered at say $29000, (after tax credits or even when tax credits dry up) this would be in reach of most people. I realize that number requires an awful lot of cost to be cut out, but you need to aim high here when approaching these issues.
2. AER choices. Offer say 3 choices: (1) @ 20 mile AER, (1) @ 40 mile AER, (1) @ 60 mile AER. This would bring many more customers into the EREV fold.
3. Efficient Range Extender. Mainly just try to get a motor that is absolutely efficient as can be. I understand the rationle with selecting the off the shelf 1.4 L for Gen. 1, but for next generation, try to score higher on range extension efficiency.
4. Offer a range extender engine that runs on Natural Gas. Many people have easy access to Natural Gas or even Propane. If they rarely use the range extender anyhow, they could have a vehicle that runs on no gasoline. Admittedly, I don’t know what they would do on very long trips though, but this one is just some food for thought.
5. Offer different iterations with the Voltec system employed. I think it would be reasonable to see a Voltec vehicle under every one of the (4) GM brands. Seriously.
No time like the present to get a leg up and move ahead of the competition with the Voltec philosphy IMO.
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:18 am)Just having the early guys talk about their daily lives with their new Volt would be enough for me!
+9
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:19 am)My wife is good to go for me to get a Volt. All we are waiting for now is the ability to order locally.
Here is what worked for me:
Did I complain when you said you really wanted that new kitchen that cost $35K? Well, this is something I really want, and have been thinking about for over 30 years.
She tried the old “but the kitchen adds value to the home”. My response was: Are we planning to sell the house? No. So what difference does it really make?
May not work for you, but it did for me!!!
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:24 am)Battery technology is constantly improving. Suppose a year from now Volt could offer a replacement battery upgrade for volts a year old that would increase the electric range 25% to 50 miles. Would it be worth several thousands plus trade-in for people to do this?
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:24 am)I’d go one further and offer a 10 mile AER. A 10 mile AER would be enough for all my wife’s travel. She rarely leaves the neighborhood unless I am driving.
40 AER is just right for me. If you go too small then the battery won’t have enough instant power to light up the tires!
I would like to see NG as well. There are 7 public stations within 20 miles of my house. However, instead of ICE, I’d like to see an NG fuel cell.
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:26 am)Forget the arguments and just come clean and say: “I want it”.
Works every time for me.
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:27 am)ClarksonCote, I am very curious to now how much energy you get back when you drive down Mount Washington.
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:40 am)I would handle it the very same way.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:43 am)GM was so transparent about the Volt because of the film “Who Killed the Electric Car”. GM didn’t want to compound the PR failure by having their next generation electric vehicle be a total technological failure without showing why. Unfortunately the Volt isn’t going to be a technological failure, it may be a business failure which remains to be seen. Now GM has to commit itself to the electrification of the automobile. If GM didn’t electrify new companies like Tesla would put them out of business simply by the public perception of GM not being willing to adapt to new technologies.
GM has already hinted at future EV designs. But the deployment of these is being held back as to not compete with the Volt. GM after all has to begin to recoup the R & D cost. As per the norm new designs are company secrets to keep the competition from leap frogging ahead. Although GM handed the competition the lead on a silver platter, the Nissan Leaf for example. By totally destroying the EV1 and ALL research into electric cars and batteries GM set themselves back 10 years.
All it takes is one company to see the writing on the wall that the ICE is doomed. Relying on 100 year old unsustainable technology is sure path toward the end.
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:44 am)The EPA sticker grade will be what the EPA sticker grade is. If the vehicle is an EREV it will get an “A” regardless of what it does. For example, it could have an EV range of 150 miles and it would still get a grade of “A” whereas the Leaf will get a grade of “A+” because it’s a BEV. As a practical matter if my better half drove the car she’d probably get a real world 500 MPG. I’d probably get a real world 5000 MPG. Realistically major improvements in these numbers aren’t possible other than tweaks for some odd governmental regulation or another — such as making it E85 compatible so you can get an HOV sticker (though you couldn’t actually use E85 since there aren’t a sufficient number of stations).
We don’t know what the CS mileage will be so it’s strange you think it’s critical to improve it. My guess is 40+ MPG. Other than being a bigger number for those “mine is bigger than yours” arguments, improving it won’t have any real world impact on gasoline consumption. The fact is that the Volt will beat any other ICE vehicle by such larger numbers that I’m hopeful they won’t spend much time on this. Just a waste of time worrying about how much gas you use for the 1% of the time you might be using any. Leave the MPG numbers to drivers who have gassers.
Price will come down. The truth is that they could have taken a lot of content out of the car and knocked $4K off the price. In fact, GM could have not added the destination charge to the base price and then they could have knocked $5k off the price. How’s that for price reduction?
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:45 am)I am definitely waiting. The Volt is too expensive. The Leaf has too short a range. The Prius PHV is coming. When the PHV hits the market, then I will see if something better is on the cusp.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:58 am)It’s not certain that The Osborne Effect applies here. The supply of Volt 1s is very limited, anyway. Auto companies talk about future product all the time and year and clearance sales and shutdowns generally reduce/remove inventory in advance of new model introduction. There’s also a certain amount of time-inflexible demand for cars as people will decide their current vehicle is unsuitable and won’t wait a model cycle. Only the more discretionary aspects of car buying can be time-shifted and that’s not the entire market.
Like the history of Osborne, auto companies run into problems when current product is uncompetitive and/or competitive product is delayed. Osborne had lots of problems, most notably the competition from KayPro.
More often, too, automotive improvements are very evolutionary or simply stylistic (tailfins! bigger tailfins!!) and the incremental advantage of waiting is low. Unless the Volt 2.0 is really radical (80 mile range, CS mode fuel economy at least 25% higher), the Osborne effect will be very limited. The one thing I can think of that’s achievable in Volt 2.0 that may make the most significant difference would be a fifth seat. Much of the current EV enthusiast market doesn’t care too much about that but the general population buys cars with 5 seats.
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:00 am)Hmmm. I need to lay out $35k for the kitchen remodel so I can justify $41k for the car I really want but have no rational justification for beyond that I want to own a car that will be the forerunner of the next generation of American cars. Sounds like a deal.
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:01 am)I’m hoping that we’ll have a huge amount of personal input coming to the site, once people actually get their Volts’ wheels on the road. I don’t know if a steady diet of that for 2-3 years will be enough to maintain interest or not, but I sure hope so. Lyle is pretty creative, so I’m sure that he’s got a lot of ideas about how the site will evolve “post-release”.
Be well,
Tagamet
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:01 am)It’s true that people buy on emotion and justify their purchase with logic (I used to be in sales!). Your negotiations with your wife to buy a Chevy Volt sounds a lot like how we do things in our household with my wife and me. The main thing with a good relationship is that you both communicate openly and don’t operate behind each others back. Everything else is negotiable.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:29 am)Very well said. That is how we stay happily married.
I very rarely “pull rank” in my house. But when I do, she is the first to say that I was right.
She is smarter than me, a better human being than me, an excellent wife, and an excellent mother. I don’t cross her often unless I am deathly serious about something. At $41K, I’m not there so she wins the argument. Oh, she is also extremely tight with money.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:32 am)Good to know… Maybe I’ll do the neutral leather then, but I was really hoping for black/black. I might go with white accents and black leather. I’m hoping someone from GM contacts me soon so I can iron out those details and get the information straight from GM.
My current objective is to actually get a Volt. Once that’s done, and once the snow has nearly all melted off Mt. Washington, I will try to be the first one up it with the Volt. I will gladly report statistics.
join thE REVolution
+10
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:33 am)If “less information” will be coming from Detroit starting next year, that is all the more reason for a ‘monthly magazine’ instead of a ‘daily blog’. [C'mon! We know you want it!] It can’t be easy coming up with interesting topics on a daily basis. Lately, there has been a lot of info, I think, because we are so close to launch. After that… will the ‘well dry up’ ? I sure hope not!
Thought for the Day:
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:38 am)Considering that Gen 1 is out of reach of probably 85% of the buying public I think they should be more forthcoming of information about Gen2.
The Volt will never be able to fulfill it’s role as a car for the average person at $41,000. They need to be feverishly be working on a less expensive Gen 2 and not by making the battery smaller.
+15
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:46 am)…my plan is to just start making stuff up
Say did you know that gen 2 is going to feature scissor doors and will have the ability to communicate with corn?
+10
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:57 am)There are some, not Lyle or the “regulars,” but some, who have been doing that all along.
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:58 am)Excellent, CorvetteGuy! +1, and then some.
+10
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:00 am)I’d heard that the corn communicator was only available on the 16 person, electronic camouflage model.
Be well,
Tagamet
+4
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:01 am)Yup, $41k is too much for a car for me in real life. That’s 1/3rd of what I borrowed to buy my house, and my house isn’t paid off yet.
Who buys $40k+ cars/trucks/SUVs? I’m quite curious about this because I see a lot of them on the road, but I haven’t been able to make sense of the phenomenon.
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:01 am)How many people, out in the great unwashed world, really understand what the Volt is? How many people, even on this site, only think they know what the Volt is? (I’m not including the regulars, but we occasionally get a post here based on heavy misconceptions).
GM has to be transparent with something so new, until Voltec becomes a known commodity. Once the cars are out there, and the public can see for itself from people they know, and everyone wants one, why of course GM will clam up. From Gen I forward, people can be told, ‘like the old Volt, only [x] is now bigger/better.’ Just now, people are saying ‘Volt? What’s that?’
It will be somewhat less interesting for me, moving forward; I’ve gotten off on the whole development thing. Still, it will be just as possible to speculate; and eventually, see which ideas were correct.
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:02 am)Thanks a lot Chris C… I just spent the last 30 minutes of my life reading about self-defeating prophesies. Although I don’t think it applies here.
I don’t think anyone with the means to buy the Gen 1 is waiting for Gen 2.
Computers and consumer electronics are much more susceptible to the Osborne effect because you always come out ahead waiting for the next model. Which invariable will be better for the same or less money.
They compensate by having extremely short product cycles. Six to 9 months tops. If you wait a year that’s two to three generations. Not a huge deal.
With the Volt if people wait until Gen 2 that’s three to five years. GM could be bankrupt again by then.
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:06 am)Rashiid, the wife argument – my wife has been complaining for years about the clutter in the garage, “just get it cleaned up enough for one car…”. So I told her that if I could have a Volt I would clean it up very nice and clean. I doubt that was the only thing that sold her, but it surely helped.
+6
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:06 am)I’m not sure what you mean by that statement, the Camaro outsold the Mustang in August and is significantly ahead of the Mustang in sales for the year. I’m sure GM would have liked to have sold even more Camaros, but by comparison they seem to be doing pretty well given the economy and the car market overall.
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:07 am)Darned those option packages!!
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:08 am)Oh, and guys, please please, take every opportunity to be thankful for your spouse, your lover, and your best friend, ESPECIALLY if they are all one and the same person.
-1
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:22 am)I never said the Prius was built in the USA and I gave praise to the American workers including our univerisities.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:26 am)As you said, there’s *always* speculation (and humor) left to fall back on (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:26 am)Perhaps in 2011, you could lease the Volt for 3 years, and then afterwards, re-lease for another 3 years. By that time, the Gen III Volt–a superior and less expensive vehicle–may be available to the mraket. Alternatively, you could decide around that same time to purchase outright a good used Gen II Volt, if available. Still, whichever way, I respect your decision (I’m quite frugal myself).
Regards, George, Sudbury, Canada…go Volt!!
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:26 am)I guess it will have to be the occasional new news article but mainly articles about other related type cars. That and stories from the hundreds if not thousands of Volt drivers across the world who occasionally visit this site. I’ll be interested in coming here and having Lyle do all the hard work of finding and reporting sales numbers each month. Hopefully we’ll see a gradual decline in Prius sales numbers and a gradual rise in Volt numbers. Viva La Volt!
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:28 am)And if they are not the same person, be thankful for all three!
Be well and very careful,
Tagamet
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:28 am)Except for a few sketchy items from time-to-time (and several “mini-racetrack” exhibitions on the the Jay Leno show) Ford has been everything but transparent about their new Focus BEV now set for release in mid-year 2011. For example, we’ve only recently learned that it will employ a thermal control system much like the Volt’s. Here’s what one source says about it today (at http://electrovelocity.com/2010/09/07/the-electric-2012-ford-focus/?ref=nf )…
“Ford might be the dark horse of the electric car world but we won’t know till mid-2011 when they release the 2012 Ford Focus electric. With a range that matches the Nissan Leaf, a highly advanced battery system that implements state-of-the-art liquid cooling and the tried and true platform of one of their best selling entry level car Ford could sneak up on the Nissan Leaf, and there might not be anything Nissan can do about it.”
“The first year of production of the Nissan Leaf has already sold out, clearly showing there is a huge market for electric cars waiting to be satiated, unfortunately for Nissan the current sold out status of the Leaf could very well push impatient potential buyers into the showrooms of other manufacturers, like Ford and Toyota. Ford is hoping to have no less than 10,000 of these electric cars on the road by the end of 2011, no mean feat, it looks like 2011 will be a year where we learn a lot about how deep the market is for battery electric vehicles as a significant number of new models will be released from a slew of both established and new auto manufacturers. Could this be the beginning of the end of the hybrid car?”
One thing is certain, the Focus BEV will be a nicely-styled little car (by contrast to the colossally-ugly Leaf), which will be a HUGE advantage over the Leaf, at least in the US.
+9
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:28 am)Strategies to convince the wife the $35k for the new Volt isn’t a bad idea:
1) Buy the book: Tyranny Of Oil ( Amazon.com ) and place it on the coffee table or in the kitchen.
2) Run out of gas ( in the rain! ) on the way to church – then miraculously have a gallon can of the evil stuff in the trunk ( got it for the lawnmower )….but milk the “oh man! how I hate this, being stranded!” routine for at least five minutes before you “remember” there might just be some in the trunk.
3) Buy a LIFE or TIME magazine with a big picture of oil soaked pelicans or sea turtles and leave it in the bathroom.
4) Never hurts to rent a copy of Who Killed The Electric Car from Blockbuster or Hollywood Video ( in the documentary section ) for TV night because that film never ceases to piss people off, and get minds shifted toward a positive view of EVs. It certainly did mine, and my wife’s.
5) Foot massages. With wives, next to listening to her go on about how she feels – a good massage or foot massage pretty much gets more mileage than a Volt in EV mode ( if you know what I’m sayin’ )!
6) Highly Suggested Viewing Dept: http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/news.html
Got a DVR? Show this program from National Geographic: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/aftermath/4462/Overview
7)* When you pull up in the driveway with the brand-new Volt, cop a huge grin and say – “Honey, look what I got for you!”
Before you label these techniques as “manipulative”, remember how she schmoozes you when the credit card suddenly has new “ghost charges” upon it and how all those new shoes miraculously appear in her closet.
RECHARGE!
James
P.S. – sleeping on the couch for a few weeks is worth it!
P.S. II – * a huge bow on top for effect – may or may not be over the top! : )
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:36 am)Is that “The Stand” model (from the book/movie)?
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:36 am)OT:
Like I said. The Cruze is a big deal around Youngstown, Ohio…..
http://business-journal.com/marketing-pr-push-drives-cruze-rollout-p17385-1.htm
+6
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:38 am)ANOTHER ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT PROPOSED VOLT AD, CORVETTEGUY!!!
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:39 am)You don’t have to do the kitchen. I am sure you have already done something that you can substitute………………
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:49 am)7 excellent suggestions, James! BTW, is your new avatar depicting a guy shooting himself in the head with a pump nozzle “pistol” —or is he simply “shooting himself” with gasoline— or both? Either way, that little well-chosen graphic says a lot!
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:51 am)Of course, like another poster said above, it makes sense for GM to keep their plans confidential and private for now. Its never a good idea to reveal too much about your business plans publicly if your competition can use that info to build an even better product. And the electric car segment is getting hot and gaining some momentum now… so GM has to watch out…
+8
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:51 am)After the Volt News dries up this sit should be come the official message board for volt owners. I have never owned a vehicle and not been on their message boards…
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:59 am)Let’s hope the Cruze is deserving of “a big deal”. To me, GM straining to produce a Corolla is kind of an old old story. I read car magazines, so shoot me…lol…But through the years and years…….and years one tires of reading how the next Cadillac will “almost be” up to it’s European counterparts, or how the new Malibu shoots for Camry ( and misses ), which have been standard fare.
This is a GM fan site so I realize the majority here will neg vote me, but people who really know automobiles have to be frank – the latest iteration Malibu is no Camry – or Accord. Malibu has consistently rated below even Fusion in side-by-side shootouts. My personal experience was a rental Malibu who’se electronics were all funky ( I know – it was a rental )…I’ve rented Camrys though, and they didn’t have a glitch. One can just sit inside a GM product and nit and pick the plastics and switchgear alone – which are functional, but most clearly a step or so behind in quality of material, fit and finish. I would be remiss if I didn’t state that GM and Ford ( and Chrysler ) have stepped up their quality to new highs ( for them ). But they’ve had to. If they hadn’t absolutely nobody would buy them anymore. Remember GM went bankrupt. Competition mounts, as today, Hyundai has gained foothold and becomes more of a GM foe in all the conventional sedan and SUV segments. At the very least, one who is patriotic and in the market for a generic sedan can buy a Cruze and get a comparable and not overtly inferior product.
The Cruze, for Youngstown Ohio, is surely a big plus. For rest of us, perhaps it will be too as many feel some sort of Cruze variant ( hatchback with a new grille? ) will be Volt gen II. For me, I can’t get all lathered up about an ICE powered compact that will compete with Civic and Corolla that’s been out for over a year in Europe and Australia and has recieved mixed reviews. I’m very happy GM opted to engineer a 40 mpg ( Hwy ) model, and hope Cruze sells in large numbers – for the American worker and American industry.
All in all though, face it, Cruze is a blandly handsome, nothing new attempt to equal Corolla. And to me, that just isn’t worthy of anything near the term “excitement”.
RECHARGE!
James
+9
Sep 7th, 2010 (12:00 pm)And from a link off of the article you mention, there is:
…Ford also is developing a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle and a next-generation hybrid electric vehicle for 2012.
Exciting times!
Maybe if GM gets tight lipped with Lyle, he could “broaden” the site to include info on all of the new flavors of plugin hybrids. Of course, then GM would be losing a *huge*, exclusive, respected information outlet….. (are you listening, GM?)
Be well,
Tagamet
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (12:06 pm)Maybe this “transparency” has been a clever ruse to mislead the competition. It will be revealed that the production Volt will be powered by EEStor ultracaps with a Stirling engine range extender fueled by yak butter. No one saw that coming. The competition will be caught flat footed. GM will have to itself the entire “no to foreign oil, yes to fat” demographic.
That would be a hard act to follow for generation 2 of the Volt. Look for GM to aquire and trademark the term “Mr. Fusion”.
+4
Sep 7th, 2010 (12:10 pm)Really? The average price people are paying for cars is $32k. $33.5k doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch for fully-loaded trim.
Sticker on my last car was $38k and change. I’m not exactly above average income-wise.
+6
Sep 7th, 2010 (12:26 pm)More recent breaking news: Here’s another news item that, if it was “transparent”, I was blind and deaf to it when it was announced (I’m not sure I believe this one):
“JFE Engineering have debuted a new battery charging technology capable of recharging electric cars in a matter of minutes rather than a number of hours as is currently the norm. The charger allows a car to be 50% recharged in just 3 minutes, about 10 times faster than current capabilities. A 70% charge reportedly takes just 5 minutes, roughly the amount of time the average person spends buying gasoline at a standard service station.”
“The JFE rechargers are fully compatible with the CHAdeMo standard for electric cars that was agreed upon by a number of Japanese and International companies in March this year and JFE expects to have them installed at service stations and convenience stores across Japan by March 2011. Is this the big break electric vehicles have been waiting for? Time will tell.”
Source: http://electrovelocity.com/2010/07/05/jfe-engineering-create-5-minute-electric-car-charger/
Sep 7th, 2010 (12:27 pm)Personally, I’d believe this, but then we’d have to build out a yak butter infrastructure. Then again, I’ve heard that GM *does* have at least two board members with financial interests in yak butter futures…
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 7th, 2010 (12:32 pm)I think this is what’s working for me. She wants a ‘plug-in car’ the next time around.
This one is in the home library and gets played periodically. Not as much as ‘Matrix’, but, enough to remember.
/doesn’t hurt that we have all new appliances in the kitchen though…
Sep 7th, 2010 (12:53 pm)It will help to get the production volume up and the price down!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (12:57 pm)GM-VOLT will be discussing what is needed in future generation VOLTs as owners share their experiences. GM won’t need to tell all the secrets, because they will be invented here.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (1:03 pm)Hmmm… butter (cow, not yak) has 717kcal/100grams. Now we need a butter-to-electricity conversion process and it’s in the bag!
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (1:09 pm)Closer to the truth than ya think. Mountain Mode, for one, was suggested on this forum way before GM said anything about it.
Sep 7th, 2010 (1:15 pm)Reports from the soon to become Volt owners!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (1:23 pm)I agree that if I knew all about the features of the next generation Volt I might wait a few months more for it even at my age (“greatest generation”).
Am looking for E85 “moonshine capability,” a better selection of exterior colors (solid and bright), a motorized front seat mover, a few more of those options that in the past with GM cars I never originally heard of them but eventually got so used to them I couldn’t imagine getting along without them. I don’t need a fifth seat but many on this site seemed to think them impossible to live without.
P.S. I just got 240V in the garage. More on this later.
BIG BTRY
+6
Sep 7th, 2010 (1:25 pm)Mtn mode was the first thing that I thought of when I read Mark’s post. Gee, between the font of great ideas, ongoing vehicle feedback, and CorvetteGuy’s advertising, it’d pay GM to hire us as a new division!
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 7th, 2010 (1:27 pm)I’m sure GM has learned things from the “transparency” of this project. I’m sure some of those lessons have been help and others have been what not to do. Why wouldn’t anyone apply the lessons learned to what they do next time?
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (1:30 pm)You’re right. I was thinking that the yak butter would be kept in the Volt’s tank, but that’d require refrigeration (though the liquid cooling system might handle that). Then there’s that ever-present topic of *range*, so we could debate the size of the tank…. (lol) Slow news day!
Be well,
Tagamet
-19
Sep 7th, 2010 (1:32 pm)(click to show comment)
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:05 pm)Especially CorvetteGuy’s advertising, but right now they’re getting it all for free.
Hey, CorvetteGuy are you like copyrighting any of your “thoughts for the day?”
Think about it.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:26 pm)True that.
OT, but something some have voiced interest in from Reuters:
“GM plans to begin a roadshow for its IPO immediately after the Nov. 2, U.S. midterm congressional elections, paving the way for a stock debut on Nov. 18, sources have said”
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:27 pm)I still say we were wrong to abandon the Cucumbers-to-Sunbeams research being done 300 years ago … Where would we be today if we’d gotten “Cool with Cukes” way back then?
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:30 pm)The scary part is when the corn answers back.
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:32 pm)Cough…. $7500 Tax Credit…. Cough
+4
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:36 pm)But the median price is in the low $20′s. Averages can be misleading.
FYI – One’s income and what one spends on a car aren’t necessarily directly related. It’s widely reported that many millionaires are perfectly satisfied to buy less expensive used cars… and that’s one of the reason they’re millionaires.
+8
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:37 pm)Reminder to all: Don’t engage; just click [-1] and move on. Now, his comment has been quoted past invisibility.
Dick clearly knew about the tax credit, and was just here to be McYankin our chain …
+3
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:43 pm)A millionaire of my acquaintance once had offices in a building with a bank branch. He told his secretary to walk around the building every day to pick up paper clips (from deposits people made at the bank), so that he wouldn’t have to buy them. The current “company truck” (now close to 10 years old), is the first such to be bought with air-conditioning (this is in Georgia).
The popular conception of the wealthy in America is almost disastrously off the mark.
+8
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:43 pm)In the summer of 2008, I was shopping for such a car. Test drove the Camry, the Accord, the Altima, the Malibu and the Fusion. Camry was OK but dull. The Accord didn’t have a sporty feel. The Fusion was not as spacious.
My finalists were the Malibu and the Altima. I choose the Altima because it was easier for me to get in and out of the car, due to the roof line. It was a close call.
American cars truly compare to the japanese cars now, at least for initial quality. They have to improve their reputation though.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:50 pm)The problem is that the foreign automakers have a cost advantage over the domestics.. they can afford to put a bit more money into the car with nicer plastics and so on. Foolish American consumers will go for the nicer plastics instead of thinking about their fellow un-employed neighbors.. it really is just greedy and selfish human nature. Just remember this, when you see someone driving an American car you are seeing a noble person … they took a financial hit for their neighbors, admire them. The opposite is true when you see someone driving a foreign car.
Fortunately, even thou I am a selfish and greedy person, I could care less about nicer plastics.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (2:55 pm)LOL, I figured it’d be just like OnStar.
OT but relevant to plugin enthusiasts:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68232X20100903
“Fired” for stealing 1.8 cents of electricity!
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (3:03 pm)Amen! Not that I’ve known a ton of wealthy folks, *all* of those I’ve known were so tight that they squeaked. *None of them* drove new vehicles.
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (3:11 pm)There’s definitely a discrepancy between “wealthy” and “high income.” I know plenty of people living in houses priced almost 3X the median (at time of purchase) who didn’t have a nickel saved to help the kids through college.
Some of these, of course, thought the equity in the house, due to the rising market, was the savings plan. They got a wake-up call last year, didn’t they?
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (3:14 pm)Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. I am copying them into a file to pull out over the next 3 months a little at a time.
Openness with the spouse is the only way to go and have a long relationship. I know that. I also know she may protest like hell about something I do, be resolute in her own convictions but she will accept it in the long run. If it ends up being a stupid decision, it will come up as an element in every argument from that point forward and will feel like word daggers every time. Fortunately I don’t have a lot of those and am sure the Volt will be recognized as a smart/fun purchase in the end.
Also by the way people, it’s best to think of it as a $35K purchase since most purchasers will be able to get the $7500 rebate. The $35K price is easier on the wife.
-Book
+11
Sep 7th, 2010 (3:33 pm)Well, if there is something GM would like to use, they can certainly have it for exactly $41,000.00 plus Tax, License, Registration and Fees…
-15
Sep 7th, 2010 (3:39 pm)(click to show comment)
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (3:50 pm)Or, you could just save yourself *all* of the aggravation and get your wife a Volt test drive. She’ll get out of the car and say “Only $41K ?” Of course, then the trick becomes getting her to let *you* drive.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (3:58 pm)OT:
We recently had a discussion here about ways to reduce troll traffic at gm-volt.com. The running favorite was the “ignore poster” list (by login), featured on some websites; but this might involve some complex programming and a lot of time (recalling that Lyle has his day-job of fixing peoples’ brains).
I’d suggest that a much simpler programming change could be applied as a filter rule; to reject any post containing the word “Voltard(s)”
Whoops, I think my comment just got deleted …
-1
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:02 pm)You can keep ignoring the fact that many of us are getting the car at MSRP.
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:06 pm)This is 1) a spouse story to help convince the person to relent to your Volt desires and 2) a true discussion that may help your plans to bring solar PV into your life.
At least one state (and I’ll leave it nameless so that you can (innocently) claim it is your state to convince your better half) bases its state rebate for solar PV on your ACTUAL electrical usage. (This state will provide a financial incentive on a PV installation that matches up to 110% of your recorded electrical usage based on existing billing). Therefore, in this state, if you have plans on installing solar panels on your roof, you need to convert your loads over to electrical FIRST (that may have been previously fossil fuel supplied). What this means for the Volt (or any EV owner) is that you would buy the car FIRST to get that bill up to its ultimate level, BEFORE proceeding down the PV path.
This info might help those whose spouses can see through the whole foot massage masquerade.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:08 pm)Exactly. My salary might put me in the top 1% of salaries, but my last car was an Aveo with a sticker price of $12K. For me $32K or $33K on a car is about $20K too much.
-15
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:15 pm)(click to show comment)
-16
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:29 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:31 pm)I’m no expert in this area, but are you sure this would really work? I think you’ll more likely get the “you’re a moron for forgetting to fill up” rather than “stupid car, let’s get a Volt instead!”
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:33 pm)Is this really true? Seems like a smart shopper would have a choice. Either pay a secretary to walk 150 feet just once, or buy a lifetime supply of paper clips, about the same cost most likely. Maybe he thought the secretary looked a little more fit and trim when she got the exercise from walking each day.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:43 pm)A little early in the season to experiment with skating on thin ice?
+4
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:44 pm)…and some of us in this (seemingly rich) category just look like freaking misers because we have gone green. I write this after just coming in from using my solar dryer. The solar dryer I speak of is aluminum deck furniture I have outside with underwear and towels slung all over it. And every now and then, with the little remaining grass I have left, I pull out my (ancient technology) reel mower and cut the lawn. I also walk to the corner store and post office (1/3 mile) instead of using a big SUV like my neighbor. I have always asked for tap water in restaurants instead of bottled. I buy greeting cards at the 2 for a dollar store. I am sure I could come up with other things, too, that make it appear as though I haven’t two pennies to rub together.
My kids never got it though (at least when they were teenagers); they used to say that when they grew up, one of their aspirations was to buy boxed cereal (since I would only buy the generic, bagged stuff).
I have repeatedly told people that if you abhor waste and embrace efficiency, you are half way to being green, whether your ultimate objective was to care for mother earth or not.
+4
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:46 pm)Just got off the phone with a GM/Volt supervisor on the Volt hot line and was told that all the Volt,s built this calendar year will be with the cloth interior. It looks like Lyle won,t get his in the first batch either unless GM gets enough complaints about not building any leather cars till Jan. I have an order for a Volt and Chevy called to say a person would call later and be my contact person but I do not yet have a order #. I asked the supervisor to escalate this question about why they would just build the cloth cars first and he is doing it. He said as far as he knows it is not a problem getting the leather.
Anyone getting any other info on this issue?
Sep 7th, 2010 (4:55 pm)LOL, +1 for the laugh! My wife and I are both “Children of the 60′s” (that’s 1960′s), and as such, we *do* tend to push limits! (g). I occasionally refer to her as “My first wife”, but I’m a pretty quick healer.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:08 pm)===========================
Heck, it is 70% of what I borrowed to buy my house. But that doesn’t count, as I have put a lot into remodeling the entire structure…..
A lot of those expensive cars are leased. They get to drive fancy high end cars, for a lower price, and then get a new one in three years. This is what some people like to do. I know a lot of people that do exactly that.
Or, if you are like me, you buy an expensive car, but keep it for a long time. My average for keeping a car is ten years. For me, that works.
But I may just lease the Volt for three years and then make the long term decision at the end of the lease. If the Volt is still the best on the market, I will buy it. If there is something much better available, then it may be the better way to go. This is first generation, brand new technology after all…..
JMHO
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:11 pm)It’s aspirations like these that made America great! Seriously! and I suspect that they “got it” on a lot of levels. Congratulations.
Be well,
Tagamet
+6
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:17 pm)#55 Grouch Said:
Who buys $40k+ cars/trucks/SUVs? I’m quite curious about this because I see a lot of them on the road, but I haven’t been able to make sense of the phenomenon.
Hey, I have always bought $40.000 cars. It’s just that I wait until they are 4 or 5 years old and I can buy them for $12,000 or less.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:18 pm)Some say it’s better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission:)
Can’t you subtract some gas/maintainance savings to bring down that $100/mo overage? Also, the test drives seem to work pretty well. Perhaps she’ll see some value in the quietness and low emissions.
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:20 pm)Yes, it really is true. This became a story which is still told by everyone who knows him, and it also illustrates the frugal instincts which often characterize self-made wealth.
Unlike the stereotypical image of the “executive / owner” he does actually listen to his employees — to a point. He also seems fully aware of his risk-taking and business activities as a source of employment for others. To his credit, he did not fire the secretary when she refused to perform this unusual task; and actually purchased the paper clips instead (which he would have been forced to do in any case once he moved out of the building).
There is actually a lot to admire in the guy (which again, rubs against the popular conception); and a lot of eccentricity (which doesn’t).
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:27 pm)Now Statik… Be nice…
People on these blogs don’t always have a sense of humor or enough sense to know when someone is throwing in a little smack talk for fun… Oh wait a minute that is the Nissan-leaf site! LOLOL 
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:28 pm)Wow my first green comment block, #26.
I thought it would happen a couple days ago with my limerick about Lyle and his order but I only got 9 votes on that one.
Thanks to all the voters. I am glad you were entertained with all of the “how to convince the wife” discussion. I always find it funny how this dynamic works out between adults who are determined to live with each other even though they have differences of opinion sometimes.
Please keep the suggestions coming. Oh and the test drive one, that’s a little difficult since these cars are a little rare at the moment. I sure hope my dealer does get one for that purpose before my white diamond rolls in.
-Book
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:35 pm)Speaking of wives and “white diamonds” …
+4
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:50 pm)This is kind of late. But from the woman’s perspective–be honest with her. Explain to her that this is really important to you. And explain why. (You should probably also discuss things like peak oil without even mentioning the Volt. There are lots of things you could do to prepare that are completely un-Volt related.)
Also, be willing to economize elsewhere to pay for it. Budgeting is about priorities. If this is your priority, she’s probably more likely to respect that than if you always go for the more expensive item.
-1
Sep 7th, 2010 (5:59 pm)Interesting to think that oil companies, that make billions off of oil, don’t know about peak oil, if it exists, and how to deal with it. A free energy market would take care of any problems there were with energy asap.
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:03 pm)book and tag
you two guys gave me a great laugh today!
this site will definitely continue for many years to come, especially with funny posts
like those +1 both of ya
p.s book i also got my first green post the other day,
was at +125 last time i checked and hope it keeps going so gm
realises Lyle’s contribution to the volts education to the world (remember I’m down under)
and all my info has been from this site! i also agree with an above post that gm has got many ideas from all of us here over the years, so well done everyone on YOUR contributions to the volt
stuey
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:12 pm)funniest post ever on gm-volt.com goes to (insert drum roll here) statik!!!!!
dont ever change bro …lol
stuey
+8
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:16 pm)As Kilgore said, there’s a difference between high income earners and wealthy. Many many high income earners spend a lot more than they earn. They operate under the theory that their income is only going to go up, so they can spend whatever they want now. This less prevalent than pre-financial crisis But you can definitely still see it.
Wealth, on the other hand, refers to net assets. And you only become wealthy by saving money. Even those who inherit money–if they have no sense of proportion, can quickly find that they spend everything, and wind up penniless.
That said, the wealthy, like everyone else, are not all the same. There are some people who earn so much, that they can spend whatever they want, and still have savings. And they spend. There’s a whole set of people who commute to Manhattan in a helicopter. There are apartments in New York City that have been listed for $100 million dollars. I’ve heard of dinners where the average tab, per person, worked out to over $1000 each! (Yes, I assume that involves wine.) Unfortunately, conspicuous consumption is alive and well in this country. Less so since the financial crisis. But it’s definitely still there.
+13
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:31 pm)There are a lot of people who are so obsessed with saving money that it winds up costing them more in the long run. I’m all for saving money and living within your means. But you’re a lot better off buying one, more expensive suit, that you can wear for many years than a cheaper one that falls apart after one season. Ditto with furniture.
As far as food is concerned–fresh fruits and vegetables are expensive. But they’re a lot healthier than eating at McDonalds. So it’s worth it, IMHO. (Besides, medicine is very very expensive.)
+6
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:41 pm)I haven’t put two and two until together until now. My kids are grown and my daughter has two of her own. And guess what? She just started working for Kelloggs THIS WEEK (company car and all that). Guess she’ll never have to eat those bagged cereals again anyways!
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:48 pm)Two days ago I contacted the order manager via email. Another department head emailed back stating he’ll get my message to the manager. I replied with a “thank you” email.
When are the previously mentioned personal representatives going to enter the picture?
=D-Volt
+5
Sep 7th, 2010 (6:51 pm)You feelin’ okay Jay?
=D-Volt
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:11 pm)Honestly? That could backfire.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:33 pm)Where did you find these people? I called 888-VOLT4YOU (888-865-8496)
for the first time today, but the person I talked to wasn’t Volt-specific. She
new what the Volt was, but had to put me on hold when I asked about my
Volt orders and was completely unhelpful. (She was quite polite, though.)
Since I have one order with cloth seats and one with leather (dark) I guess
I get one this year and one the next…
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (7:48 pm)When my Volt lease is up, I’m going to pick up the 2014 Buick Electra.
Sculpted along the voluptuous lines of the 1991 Park Avenue, this car shares a chassis developed by RMI Hypercar crowd that came over from Bright Automotive. They’ve been thinking about super-efficient but large cars for the past 16 years, and now with the Voltec drive train, they finally have the muscle to push their full size sedans, cross-over SUVs and mini-vans, all of which weigh under 3200 lbs.
Using modules built from the 2012 Panasonic 18650 batteries (275 Wh/kg and 800Wh/l), the car offers 20-60 miles AER in 10 mile increments. I split the difference and went for 40, I am a bit of a traditionalist.
The genset is an adaptation of the 3-cylinder Geo engine developed out of pure spite by the team that lost out to the 1.4 L in the Gen 1 Volt. They immediately went back and did some of the best kind of engineering, asking “Which parts can we throw out if we only have to run at one speed?” They issued a statement as follows, “If there’s anything we hate more than those swanking Ecotec twerps, it’s Lotus. No way we’re letting Lotus beat us anywhere but LeMans”. CS mileage is upwards of 60 MPG.
The power and flexibility of the EREV platform is about to unleash a wave of innovation in car design over the next 10 years that must have been something like the early 1900′s.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:10 pm)When the price of the Volt was announced, I pretty much received a “I told you so! Green stuff is for rich people. They preach at you to be green and then charge an arm and a leg. Regular people can not afford to be green” Well it did go on a bit longer than that. I have wife version one and do not really want or afford wife version two. So I will wait for Volt version two, or the Electric Escort, Or even the VW-L1 though I probably could not afford those either! So my new mantra is. No new car for us. She does like to prove me wrong.
Good thread today!
Cheers
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:12 pm)Transparent doors and Google corn. I like it.
=D-Volt.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:18 pm)I sincerely doubt that. I think oil companies know exactly what the problem is when it comes to peak oil but they keep denying it exists to protect their own interests. It’s almost funny when you hear them talk about the issue, they act as if you’re joking when the issue is brought up. They won’t even acknowledge that there’s even a problem at all, let alone that it could be a big problem. They just keep pointing out that there’s lots of places to get oil from should existing sources start drying up, or that they’ll be able to scale up production arbitrarily to keep up with demand. I remember some high-ranking official (don’t remember who he was, I believe the CEO of some oil company) even saying something to the effect of “Have you seen the tar sands in Canada, there’s an INFINITE amount of oil there”. Come on, they can at least try to sound a little realistic. They know damn well that the problem isn’t the amount of oil left in the world, rather it’s whether they’ll be able to keep up with the ever increasing demand. Of course they don’t really care about that, increased demand benefits them while hurting everyone else. So I think their approach to dealing with peak oil is – do nothing!
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:29 pm)Congrats on the “Greenie”! Hitting triple digits (+’s) would be especially neat!
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:36 pm)OT: I think that if a parent has growed ‘em up with the skills needed to find the door to move out, they done good! Do you remember the commercial that went “K-E-Double L-Oh-Double G” Kellogg’s Best for you? Not too sure about that last phrase though. Heck, I think that one is from the 50′s! Congrats to the daughter too!
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:38 pm)It has been interesting to watch the Volt development. I’m sure all of GM’s competition have been watching more closely than I. As with most things American. We are open while the competition is closed. I think not giving away the store with the next generation is the right thing to do. I also think if the Japanese and others don’t take off the tariffs on American products we should start putting like tariffs on their products. It’s about time to give American companies a level playing field.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:48 pm)It is disappointing though predictable that news coverage on Volt Gen II will be limited. I enjoyed the excitement of finding details of specifications as they became available. My guess is GM would not have any trouble selling the ten thousand Volt Gen I even with news of Volt Gen II.
One news item I have heard is that the Gen II Volt will have the certifications necessary for California tax credits and car pool lane stickers. I suppose that may not require any design changes. It looks like we will have to wait until 2012 to find out.
Sep 7th, 2010 (8:55 pm)I hope the EREV is what we all wished it would be and that other platforms will follow.
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:12 pm)I learned it, “K-E-Double L-Oh-Double Good,” Kellogg’s Best for you.
We’re old! (sigh)
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:14 pm)Is 34 mpg CS an official number? http://www.allnewchevyvolt.com/
I read an article this week that mentioned the ICE on the Volt running at (only) 3 programed rpm’s. I believe GM mentioned one of the rpm set points being 4000 (mountain). The other two are probably 1000 (traffic/city) and 2000 (mid range cruise). We continue to wonder about the comments, “50 mpg CS is the target” and “We’re meeting our goals”.
=D-Volt
-1
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:18 pm)Of course, there is a continuum; as there is for any group of human beings. The difference in this specific case is that popular perception supports one end of that continuum, and denies the existence of the other. This popular perception is now in a position to drive official policy as never before in US history; and is likely to do so in a way which completely denies the individual characteristics and rights of an entire class based only on the most cartoonish of stereotypes.
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:18 pm)That’s funny! That’s the way *I* remembered it, but Joy remembered “Double G”, so, well, er,….. It’s ok, she’s asleep now (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:24 pm)That’s what I recall, too. Another pressing social enigma dispatched on gm-volt.com …
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:37 pm)Now is it Kellogg’s Best for you, or Kellogg’s Best to you?
The company was 100 years old in 2006. Their very first cereal boxes were made of recycled card board. They’ve been “green” a long time.
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:40 pm)“Best to you.”
Drilled into my head morning after morning on the black & white Captain Kangaroo show (remember the toy train?). damn I’m old …
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:40 pm)The magic 8-ball says, “Try again later”….
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:43 pm)Mr. Green-jeans was a architypical pedophile… (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
/nite all. Work at 6
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:48 pm)OK, Tag, Jackson and I agree. That settles it. “Double Good” and “best to you.”
Good night.
+2
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:53 pm)GM is going to miss the valuable comments by guys
I do see the problem of social media maintenance by GM. There is no solid social media strategy or plan and execution . One day they will open fastlane.gmblogs, then thelab.gmblogs then voltage then 20 twitter accounts and chevrolet.posterous , face book accounts and youtube channels etc etc and only consistency factor along all these channels are “first some posts and then dead” .
after new marketing person also i do see its not getting changed. I stopped following most of them because of this non consistency of a page to act as my information source. I like to appreciate lyle on the consistency of maintaining the blog and great commenters.
Sep 7th, 2010 (9:59 pm)One more time. You can actually get it as a ring tone.
“The Monkees…brought to you by…Kellogg’s”
K-E-double L-O-double good,
Kellogg’s best to you.
I rest my case. Some one tell Joy.
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:00 pm)Actually, the argument I’ve heard is more–when rich people get more money, they tend to save it. And saving doesn’t help the economy. (Which is ridiculous, IMHO. The United States economy needs more savings not consumption.)
But that’s not why people think we need to raise taxes on the rich. Basically, we have a society that’s become increasingly polarized between the rich and the poor. Income and wealth inequality is skyrocketing. It hasn’t been this bad since the 1920s. In 2007, the top 1% took home 23.5% of national income.
It’s even worse if you look at net worth. In 2007, the top 20% controlled 85% of the total net worth. And if you take homes out of it (which you kind of have to do since housing values were inflated at the time), the top 20% control a whopping 93% of the wealth. That leaves just 7% for the remaining 80%. The median male actually earns less today than he did 30 years ago. If you believe, as I do, that we need a strong middle class, that’s a serious problem.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:04 pm)Oh, stop!
If she doesn’t look good in one then nothing, and I mean NOTHING will get a Volt in the driveway. If you get one anyway, it will always be YOUR car if this thing doesn’t work right.
+1
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:35 pm)We just don’t have the manufacturing base that showed its muscle for the two decades after WW2. We built so many products for export that we didn’t worry about the domestic market. We, as a society, got fat, lazy, poorly educated and self centered. As far as our manufacturing base goes, do you know anyone that would work in a factory? The UAW is a strong union but the ranks are being depleted by every foreign auto company out there setting up assembly lines here.
The rich get richer at our own expense so we tax them to get it back.
Boy do I hate the sixties.
+8
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:15 pm)So some of you think you are old because you remember Captain Kangaroo and other 1950′s things. Guess what, I remember when the last of the original electric cars were still running around (mostly Detroit Electrics and Bakers I think). They were just great (beat those noisy Flivers) when driven, seemingly always, by little old ladies in black.
I’m sure the Volt will match them. Now if we could just get rid of that flakey battery (said in 1930 and still heard 80 years later.
BIG BTRY
Sep 7th, 2010 (11:35 pm)Well, since folks ran with the Kellogg’s thing, guess I’ll expand. Daughter’s story too long to elaborate, but this crappy economy caused her to take an extra year (beyond college graduation) to get a job. Uncle who works for Kelloggs encouraged her to keep applying and persistence paid off. Well, now I have a brother-in-law on breakfast food side and daughter on snack side. Free samples of all the new flavors
And I grew up with a grandpa who was a baker. Imagine being a little kid who can go in and grab all the brownies and cookies he wants. As Joe Walsh wrote, ‘Life’s been good to me so far’.
+2
Sep 8th, 2010 (3:28 am)You win. You’re really old!
+4
Sep 8th, 2010 (4:41 am)Taxing the rich more wont accomplish much of anything beyond making the lower classes feel better (and they are heavily burdened with taxes already).. what we need to do is to limit welfare to those that CANT work, to encourage education, a strong work ethic and to live within your means.. and that means no new cars or house that you cant afford the payments.. but yeah it sounds much better to just tax the rich.
Worst thing we did in this country was to institute “progressive taxation”, it will eventually doom us.
Sep 8th, 2010 (4:52 am)We are meeting our goals is a very strong statement, I am sure they will meet them and pass them.. the 3 rpm levels is definitely news, do you have a link or it is a third party’s guess as usual?.. 3 rpm settings implies extreme levels of engine optimization and along with that the possibility of very high CS mode mileages, 60-70 even 80mpg depending on how far GM is willing to go on engine tuning.
34mpg is from Corvetteman’s website, a guess. You should know all this, you frequent this site.
+1
Sep 8th, 2010 (5:35 am)Wow, do you have a nurse or someone who does your typing? LOL, just kidding! You’ve seen *SO* many changes, and lived through many “interesting times”. Congrats!
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Sep 8th, 2010 (5:45 am)I am always digging for information on both the Volt and the Ampera. News, videos, road tests, and media drives. I believe the 3 rpm levels report was from a demo of the Ampera.
GM has mentioned 4000 rpm as a high in the mountain testing on the Volt. If 4000 rpm were needed on a flat freeway I would guesstimate low 30′s mpg. I’m sure this is only for very heavy demand situations. To answer your question. I didn’t save the link to the rpm report.
One thing that is puzzling to me is when a GM engineer stated that the ICE produces just enough power to run the electric motor. Seems it would be wise to maintain a constant efficient rpm, say 2000 on the highway, and add to the battery buffer if extra is available. This will allow the ICE to cycle from 2000 rpm to 1000 rpm and back to 2000 rpm using computer timed segments. If the ICE were able to average under 2000rpm on the highway the resulting mpg will easily be over 40.
Latest word: The public will need to wait until ownership to get the actual numbers on this.
=D-Volt
Sep 8th, 2010 (6:28 am)Yesterday my wife was asking about the Volt. “Does it have navigation?” “Satellite radio?” “How many mpg on the freeway?”.
I told her the Volt goes 40 miles with no gas. And about 40 mpg on the freeway. You can see the situation we guys are in GM. Maybe it doesn’t matter to GM being that nearly all the 2011′s are sold on pre-order.
Think it would be a good idea to at least offer a ballpark CS mpg?
=D-Volt
Sep 8th, 2010 (6:40 am)You guys a little older than me. I don’t remember that one at all.
But here is a link to a bunch of 1950′s Kellogg commercials.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kellogs+commercial+1950&aq=0
Sep 8th, 2010 (7:03 am)How can an ICE run at 3 RPM? My Renwal Visible V8 model does more than 3 RPM, and it rotated by an electric motor! I saw an old one cylinder ICE that was used to pump water in a farm (it was at least 60 years old), and it ran very slow, almost two revoltions per second (120 RPM) with the famous “putt-putt” sound.
There must be an error somewhere, since the slowest engine I have ever seen was that small engine (not even one HP). The Volt genset must have at least 300 RPM and maybe less if the rotating parts are very light. I believe 300 could be the minimum revolutions per minute (about 5 per second) that any automobile-sized combustion engine can run. Any slower would not allow the kinetic energy in the flywheel to complete one compression stage.
But slowing down the idle RPM in any engine does save money and lenghthen the engine’s life. I hope GM did find the way to re-engineer the ICE in the Volt genset to give it longer life and better MPG.
Raymond
Sep 8th, 2010 (8:31 am)See comment #161.
Sep 8th, 2010 (9:17 pm)All the Volts looks like they will be sold out before I can ever get one. Hope to drive one before 12/21/12 after that there may be no more roads to drive on,lol
Sep 9th, 2010 (1:24 pm)Less transparency…….. Yes that sounds like a great idea. Force feed the people what you want to give them not give them what they ask for. Sounds very familar…….. I know health care… but I digress.
# 1 I agree that GM had to clean up the tiny pr mess from the movie who killed the electric car (which really wasn’t a mess) but I’m more concerned about something else. In the beginning the Volt was a great looking design. But true to management fashion they tuned the look down and what is being produced compared to what it started out as is more than a little disappointing. It looks like Milk toast compared to the Smoking Hot look it had back in 2007. Then there is the pesky 40 miles to a charge. I’m ok with that but I’m not going to pony up the ‘extra’ 20K denarios for it. Why not get rid of the two back seats plus 1′ length of the car to save weight and see how far a Volt goes on a single charge, since most commuters drive on their own every day to and from work?