Lets start off by saying the obvious. GM needs the Cruze to be a winner in the US. It has never been more clear given GM’s August results. The bulk of GM’s 25% downswing was because of not being able to compete in the compact and mid-size car market. Well, that and being up against CFC (cash for clunkers) in the summer of 2009.
The Chevrolet Cobalt production has long stopped in Lordstown, Ohio, and there has been a very large gap between that car and the new model because of production delays. The Cruze finally starts production on September 8th of next week, and with no current compact in production, many GM customers are either delaying their purchase, waiting to see if GM’s latest offering will be worth it, or going elsewhere. August sales of the Cobalt fell 67% to 5,643 cars from 17,393 the year prior. /yeesh
Part of GM’s solution to get the word out on the Cruze, and to regain lost market share from their Japanese rivals, is to return to a old strategy. Namely, asking their 3,000+ Chevrolet dealers to go out and buy a new Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic so potential Cruze customers can compare the two, right on the spot…at a Chevy dealership.
The thinking behind the promotion is fairly straight forward, and makes sense at first glance. The Civic, like the Cobalt, is very long in the tooth, and is scheduled for a much anticipated, full model overhaul for May of 2011. Likewise for the Corolla, which is the best selling car of all time, now having been on the market since a more slight model upgrade happened in October of 2006 (as the Axio in Japan), and is also firmly behind the curve, looking dated at this point.
Margaret Brooks, Chevrolet small-car marketing director, said at a press conference for the Cruze that she expects customers to “come away with a favorable view of the Cruze,” but is that good enough.
The bottom line for GM with this promotion, and why it is not likely to be a success, is that people are coming to your dealership to see your car…why show them what the competition has to offer? Even if your product is better, if it gets consumers in the mood to start shopping around, like to Ford with the Fiesta and upcoming Focus, or to Hyundai/Kia-who really know how to sell a small car, why do it? People might start to wonder why the Cruze doesn’t have a hatch, or a two door option, or why you have to pay the premium dollars to get the 40 MPG version?
I commend GM for the effort and having faith in their cars, the Cruze is as good or better than just about anything in its segment right now, but they have tried this before with the Saturn Aura, and more recently with the Malibu against the Camry/Accord, and it just did not work.
Sell the car…not the competition.
(Source: Automotive News – sub)
Editor’s Notes: You can also check out brand new pictures below of the Chevy Cruze hatchback. This car is going on sale in Europe though won’t appear in the US.
US Chevrolet Cruze retail production will begin next on Wednesday September 8th at the Lordstown Plant in Ohio and the official Chevrolet configurator is now online. Pricing begins at $16,275.
Tim Allen has been hired as the official celebrity spokesperson and will appear in advertising also slated to begin next week.
This entry was posted on Saturday, September 4th, 2010 at 7:00 am and is filed under Brand, Cruze, Dealers, Financial, New Car. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+14
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:06 am)I can tell you that there is a large feeling of pride in the Cruze all around here in the Youngstown, Ohio area because the car is being produced locally at Lordstown. It is a very big deal here.
And I agree with Lyle. I would never have the competition on site.
Make a very large list of why your product is better. Then let the competition TRY to match it….
JMHO
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:19 am)Excellent article, Statik.
Hope GM, and Chevy dealers read this.
+7
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:21 am)The easiest way to sell the Cruze is to have a Volt next to it. And hype the Cruze as the second best mpg on the lot. Okay to mention it rolls 8 more mpg than Accord.
=D-Volt
+31
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:24 am)Love the hatchback- why in the world would they choose not to sell it in the US is a mystery and mistake in my view… Looks better than the sedan
+15
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:25 am)I agree with Statik on this one. I don’t see much of reason to bring competitive cars on site. Does GM think that will prevent shoppers from visiting the other dealers? Not likely.
Show potential customers your product, explain to them why it’s the best choice, and if they agree you’ll sell a boatload of cars.
Personally, I think the best thing(other than building the best cars in the world) that any manufacturer can do is improve the customer experience at the dealership.
Have salespeople that actually know more about the cars than the customer. I have walked out of many showrooms in my life because the salesperson that I got was useless and knew absolutely nothing about the car they were trying to sell me. No knowledge of the options, no knowledge of the warranty, etc. They just wanted me to come in and hand them my money.
Train the salespeople better, improve the buying experience and you won’t have to pull gimmicks like this to sell more cars.
+26
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:27 am)It’s sad that we aren’t getting the hatchback version, for utility it is hard to beat a hatchback.
+6
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:29 am)I take Statik’s point, not to sell the competition, but GM has a window of opportunity in which they will be head and shoulders above the competition. I will be interested to see how it develops, but there is a good chance that it will change a lot of minds about American cars being behind the times, both in regards to styling and to performance. If I was going to buy a compact car, I would love to buy the Cruze, but I would want a hatchback. Why is it that the best cars and options go to Europe but not to the US? Just bringing diesel technology and the simple hatchback to the US would help a lot. The government would have to adjust the emissions allowed slightly but that is something that should have been done years ago.
+28
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:32 am)GM: please, Please, PLEASE bring the Cruze hatchback to the U.S.!!!
+18
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:42 am)Funny story. I told my neighbor, who just leased a Civic for three years, about the Volt. He told me he was hoping to buy one after his lease is up in 2013. He said he knew about it, but that the $41K was cost prohibitive for him. I told him I thought so too, but I would lease one for $350 a month. He told me if I didn’t want the Volt after the lease was up he would buy it from me for $23K if the new ones were still over $30K. I ask him why not just get a Cruz and he replied “who in their right mind would buy any old tech car when the new tech (Voltec) is here now”.
NPNS!
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:44 am)Dittos on the hatchback.
Then you can have them buy Saab 93s and mention the Cruze is half the price. I expect the Cruze and Volt to be very similar to the Saab 93, after GM was able to pick Saab’s brain for so long.
+21
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:44 am)GM, if the Cruze is a world car as you say it is, then bring the hatchback to the USA!
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:48 am)Does anybody know if the Cruze engine has balance shafts? If it does, then as the Koreans say, “Game Over”.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:48 am)Test drive the volt, Buy the cruze. The most important car on the lot to help sell the Cruze is the Volt.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:55 am)Instead of going out and buying Hondas and Toyotas, just put a Volt in every Chevrolet dealership to compare to. All you do is increase their sale figures by 3000 or so, when you buy competing cars.
+3
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:55 am)GM’s marketing geniuses at it again. Looks like they’re trying to top their 230MPG debacle. The Volt’s only obstacle is GM marketing.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:57 am)Here here! When I test drive the Volt, I am sure to test drive the Cruze as well.
+6
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:06 am)The hatchback version looks really good and is what I would buy if I were shopping for an ICE. I don’t understand why GM won’t offer it here. Perhaps since they bury these model variants and they may not sell that well as a result but look at the competitions sales.
Can’t agree more with Statik on the comparison sales strategy. I took my wife car shopping for her previous car. Went to Saturn to look at their sedan and she drove away with a Civic. You better be better if this is the strategy.
Ads start next week. Better late than never I guess but the buzz should have been started by now, IMO.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:10 am)I want a Hatchback also.
Seeing as the VOLT is to expensive it forced me to consider the Honda Insight Hatchback.
If I am at a Chevy dealer looking at a proven model (Corolla) or an unproven model (Cruse) I’m buying the one I know will last. The proven track record.
+8
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:14 am)I have sold more than a few people on an Impala by having an Altima on the lot. Maybe, on the outside, this tactic doesn’t make sense but I can see how it works.
When Chevy has a ride and drive to introduce a new model to the dealers, they always have a comparable car there from the competition. I have no doubt that the decision to ask dealers to do the same for their customers came from positive responses from it’s current customer and sales base from Europe. In racing, the car is an overwhelming success. This car’s got it.
They’re not going into this blindly.
The sales department of any successful dealership will have a hard time selling a second rate new car if it can’t sell it on price. Now, with the Cruze, the salesmen themselves can open their eyes a little since the competition will be right there.
This car had better be good.
And, by the way, the Cruze hatchback at the Paris show is Australian. Those guys down there got it going. (THEY are selling the G-8, rear wheel drive Caprice police cruiser, and a neat contemporary version of the El Camino.) The word is that both the Focus hatch and sedan will be sold in the US when they are introduced and GM is timing the Cruze hatch to that result.
+13
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:15 am)The Cruze 40mpg Ecotec engine should be standard, not an option.
I wanted to find more info, but when I went to the GM website, There was no mention of either Cruze or Volt on the Chevrolet list. When I did a search for Volt it came up with an ancient link to the first Volt concept car!
GM builds great cars, but their advertising department sucks. Had to go to Wikipedia to find information on the GM two-mode hybrid system and the Cruze. I don’t think the advertising department knows they have a web site. I know there is a GM Volt web site, but I can’t remember the name now and there is no link from the GM web site. If I remember correctly there are practically no specifications, just generalities. Should state charging options in terms of voltage and current settings, weight and other dimensions of car, hp etc. Why force people to go to Wikipedia to find information on your own products?
+5
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:17 am)Add another vote for the hatchback in the US. I like the look way better than the sedan, and so much more utility as well.
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:24 am)I for one cant wait to test drive a cruse here in Chicago gas just got down to $2.99 a gal and the only volt was at the auto show behind a glass wall. So just to see the platform and check it out.
Tom
+8
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:30 am)I thought I would buy a Cruze until hearing that there’s no hatchback version. GM, offer a hatchback version and then I’ll buy one.
+3
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:33 am)There are some elements of truth to Roy’s complaints. GM, you need to get your gm.com website updated ASAP. Go through it with the mindset of someone looking for Volt information, who does NOT know that it’s a Chevy car.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:37 am)I see this move as bold and needed. The advertising will be fierce. There is no way a Japanese car company would have a Chevrolet on their lot for comparison.
Yeah, it could backfire, but, I think Cruze will be able to beat all competition.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:40 am)Lol. Gas is $2.29 in Fort Worth. And dropping.
http://www.fortworthgasprices.com/
+5
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:48 am)My wife and I helped our daughter buy a new Chevy Cobalt. She loves it. It is a very nice solid car.
Now I hear the Cruze is even better, so it must be a great vehicle.
Thanks to all the Lordstown GM employees for producing these two quality vehicles.
+3
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:50 am)Many people do not want a turbo or a stick shift transmission in their car.. and those are the only way you can get the ECO Cruze and the 40mpg… its also more expensive.
Regarding hatchbacks, Americans just dont like them.. no idea why. GM is keeping a close eye on Ford and their new hatchbacks, to see if they start selling again.
BTW, do we finally know the official weight of the Cruze?
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:51 am)The hatchback is a slick looking car, and from the comments here, people in the US and out like it. I guess the masses must hate it from GM’s internal “studies”, that is why it is not over here. Because if they liked it they would sell it here, right? Hmm, the ford focus seems a better choice anyways. At any rate, go Volt, hope the Volt will sell well, as it looks better than the Cruz.
+5
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:54 am)# 28 Herm said:
Regarding hatchbacks, Americans just dont like them.
Reading today’s comments, that’s obvious
+5
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:58 am)So far 12 out of 30 posts say they want a hatchback Cruze.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:59 am)“Chevrolet configurator is now online.”
No red Cruze with a standard trans???
Oh my, if I were to take my wife in to look at a Volt, we would not be able to drive out in a Cruze.
That may or may not be a good thing.
As for a Toyota & Honda in a Chevy store, huh? Statik I have to agree with you, that’s nuts!
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:01 am)And one post that says they want a Voltec HHR pickup.
+8
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:05 am)Most of the toyota and honda crowd will never convert,they are so brainwashed by the hype.
Its amazing to me how little these people care about our own economy that they are a pert of.
THey would hand the whole auto industry over to foreign companies if they could.
-1
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:10 am)Marketing still likes the old GM school.
No Hatchback, 6 speed manual on LS base model only, no CRUZE control with a stick, etc…
I’ll pass.
-1
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:14 am)And, they compete with more profitable SUVs.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:18 am)I think the move is gutsy to have competitor’s vehicles next to yours. I just don’t know if it will move that much more metal. Especially if it’s been tried already in the recent past, and didn’t really qualify as a run away success. I wish GM luck on this approach.
Personally I really like the Cruze. I think it will do wonders for this company, both image and sales wise. They have an opportunity here to show the world they can do small cars great. Don’t drop the ball folks!
+3
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:30 am)# 33
Red HHR Said:
And one post that says they want a Voltec HHR pickup.
Hey, I’d take a Voltec in most anything.
+10
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:31 am)There is some openening now – my wife doesn’t want a toyota. Recalls have taken a toll.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:32 am)“The bottom line for GM with this promotion, and why it is not likely to be a success, >>is that people are coming to your dealership to see your car<<…why show them what the competition has to offer?"
No, they aren't. GM needs a gimmick to draw potential customers to their dealerships. Many people today have just written them off from consideration if they are looking for a passenger car.
I went for an a walk in my Northern California neighborhood last week and was stunned to notice a total lack of GM passenger cars. I saw lots of Toyotas, Hondas, Fords, and even many BMWs and Chryslers. I literally saw less than 5 GM passenger cars.
When I get my Volt I'm going to be one serious trend-setter around here…
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:35 am)I’ll bet some people don’t even know they bought a hatchback until the guy at the box store tells them the new washer they just bought will fit in their car.
+7
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:44 am)I’ve noticed the same sort of mindset about Apple products. Waaaay overrated–especially considered that you pay about double compared to the competition’s products.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y-buw6t7zw
+7
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:45 am)WAY back when we took the test drives in NYC, we had to first sit through a presentation on the Cruze (which was also displayed on hand). Nice presentation, but it reminded me of someone selling time-shares (g). It’s obvious that GM is betting a great deal on the success of the Cruze, and I wish them well, but NPNS!.
It may be a little tangential, but I really don’t think that GM marketing can believe some buyers (at least buyers *here*) when we say “It’s not all about the money!
Thanks for the great article, Statik!
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:47 am)This is the kind of stuff why the Auto task force decided to speed up the retirement process for some of GM’s executives. Nowadays when people want cut and dry information, they expected it to be at their finger tips. Less and less people are just walking onto dealer lots and asking advice from the salesman. They’d rather get information from reviewers online, expert reviews, customer reviews, they want to compare specs like they compare computer specs, they want to compare reliability and options and prices. Auto makers seem to just not get this and cling to the old “we can swindle them by being vague” routine.
-2
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:55 am)*warning – off topic*
I thought the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad, and even the iMac etc. are all very competitively priced for their capabilities. My Google Nexus One phone I bought which is about as good as an iPhone in most ways cost me $530 with no subsidy (an iPad sold at the same time with much more capability is only $499).
As far as their computer lines, I couldn’t agree more, however I think the whole Apple strategy is to maintain about 10-15% market share of the total PC market. If their sales start jumping up they just raise the price, and they keep raising and raising until they’re back down to 10-15% market share. I’ve followed their sales and prices very closely over the last 4 years or so and that’s sure what it seems like to me. Obviously their computers are very nice. The build quality of the unibody aluminum Macbook Pros for example feel’s like a Bentley compared to the Geo Metro of Toshibas, Sonys and HPs out there.
Sorry, off topic.
+6
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:56 am)There’s lots of reasons this seemingly cuckoo and certainly ballsy sales strategy could work.
It follows an old marketing maxim which says– when you are invisible in the market and trying to move up, bring in the best and put yourself next to them….. if you are at the top, never mention any competition exists. The idea behind this is to elevate your status in the consumer’s mind when you need to, but when you are already at the top, you don’t want the consumer thinking about anybody but number one.
A classic example of this was in the 1965 model year when Ford introduced the original LTD. The LTD had a luxury theme which was up to then unseen in its price class. What Ford did was to directly compare its LTD with a Rolls Royce, trumpeting in their advertising that the LTD was ‘quieter than a Rolls-Royce’. That ad campaign worked, the LTD became a sales success, and as they had recently done with the Mustang, Ford caught Chevrolet and Plymouth by surprise and scrambling around to respond (Late in the ’65 model year Chevy responded with the Caprice, and Plymouth came out with the much forgotten VIP in ’66).
As Statik notes, GM is not really a major player in the Civic/Corolla market segment. Bringing in the market leaders and putting them next to the Cruze is a smart strategy, assuming the Cruze is as good as its press and if its sales success elsewhere on the globe is to be believed. At the very least, it will help place the Cruze next to the Civic and Corolla in people’s minds. And for those who are planning to buy, it will give them a chance to open their minds as they might not have done before to the notion that GM has really become a player in the game again.
Another consideration – Corolla and Civic are as vulnerable as they have ever been. Yes, as the blog pointed out, the current models are reaching the end of their cycle. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are not competitive, good cars – they’re not Model T Ford’s stumbling into the waning days of the Roaring 20′s, long past their prime.
A bigger problem Corolla and Civic face is that their bubble of invincibility has burst. Both Honda and Toyota have lately been recalling cars like never before; while at the same time Detroit iron has been steadily earning kudos for build quality and reliability.
The time is ripe for this three-way comparison. GM better hope the dealers are up to it. Too bad the blog didn’t tell us in what kind of ways GM might have prepped the dealers with this. I suppose Corvette Guy could fill us in – HEY CORVETTE GUY! Did GM send you any sales hints and specific points to target against the Civic and Corolla, or are they having you do this blindly?
I’ll reserve my final answer as to whether this 3-way product comparison is a good idea or not based upon how well GM has supported footsoldiers like Corvette Guy.
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:05 am)I don’t think it is a wise selling strategy to have the competition on site as many would not check them out but now -there they are and they have a new choice. MB did this in 90/91 with the Lexus LS400 and it backfired on them bigtime. Just sell the cars in a professional way, and not have 6 guys in white shirts out front smoking and when you drive up one attacks you but doesn’t know the product and has to go to the mgr. for an answer to every question.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:07 am)Hmmmm… case in point: my message above was typed on an an iPhone (that isn’t mine), and because it’s rather tricky to get the URL to a YouTube video (and edit my message afterwards because scrolling in a text box is darn near impossible), I didn’t get the original video. This is the one with 8 million or so hits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg
P.S. Lyle, you should redesign the web site to be iPhone-friendly. (Rolling Eyes)
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:18 am)If M-B really did this back in ’91 as you say, of course it backfired. As I said in post #46, if you are the leader, NEVER compare yourself with your competition. Marketing 320. NEVER do anything that could elevate your competition to your level.
+5
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:40 am)I have the Comparison Guide for the Cruze. It is not for public use yet, but should be on the Chevrolet website soon.
Just for clarification, the 1.8L NON-turbo 4-cyl with manual trans is what comes on the base LS model. The 1.4L TURBO ECOTEC engine is on all other models including the 40 mpg ECO LXF with manual Trans. Only the base model LS and the LXF have the manual trans. The others are automatic only.
And I agree with an earlier posting. the entire Chevrolet website needs a major update and overhaul. It is pitiful compared to the competition.
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:40 am)Ford LTD vs. Rolls-Royce….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r18YRP-jWAY
..
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:42 am)Why not compare it to a hummer while you are at it?
The Accord is a full size car and the Cruze is a compact.
But beyond that, you are wrong about the 8 mpg. The 2011 Accord is rated at 23/34. The Cruze is rated at 26/36 with the smaller engine.
Perhaps when the eco comes out it will be rated at 26/40, but if the Cruze Eco is anything like the Cobalt XFE it is going to miss the highway mileage by a large amount (as it seems all new GM cars do).
GM made a big stink out of doing the same thing when the Malibu came out. They were doing all kinds of tough talk. But the whole thing died with only a whimper. I think the problem was that when you attempt to do this you really have to have a significantly better vehicle. In the case of the Malibu/Accord, GM’s comparisons were questionable at best and some were just wrong/underhanded. Assuming your customer isn’t a moron, they are going to notice that if the best advantages you can claim are so poor then you really don’t have any advantage. Honda customers use the internet much more than GM customers; they do their research.
But I think the fundamental problem is that import buyers aren’t going into GM show rooms. Or if they are, they have already seen the imports. So GM is gaining nothing. On the other hand, they are giving their tried-and-true customers a nice exposure to the competition. I think the best they can hope for is that they don’t lose a few customers.
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:46 am)I think GM could have a big seller with the Cruze. One thing though I’d like to see for future versions is maybe making the headlights a bit more of an oval shape instead of squarish. The “face” of a car is all important just like it is on people.
I would have preferred the rear end of the Cruze to have tail lights that look a bit more like a Ferrari if they are doing the circular shapes. The Ferrari F30 has the best looking butt in the world.
http://www.gotbroken.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/2005-ferrari-hamann-f430-rear-view-588×441.jpg
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:50 am)Please correct me if I’m wrong but the LXF model is not listed yet, due later 2011 MY ?
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:51 am)The same old story in my mind GM cant seem to find the right people at the early stages of product designs.
I can only guess why they dont want the Cruze hatchback in the US probably not to compete with another product like that funny looking green goblin with the big front end.
They need to get it in their head that its better to have models competing internally then to have the customer go elsewhere. Same goes for the Corvette, they need another sports car that the average person can afford similar to the 350z.
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:01 am)Well done and interesting piece statik. But light on the sarcasm — I had to look at the author line to make sure it was you! Have you been taking lessons from Dan Neal (sp)?
I give GM props on this one though. It’s not as if they have a lot to lose. Their mindshare for GM vehicles among consumers looking to buy small car buyers is minuscule. What percentage do Corolla and Civic have? 90% maybe? What percentage does Chevy have? 10%? A quick cost/benefit probably revealed that if they picked up 10% from Honda and Toyota they could lose 50% and still be way ahead. Plus it’s a first step to rehab where they are competing on features not price. Overall it’s an interesting and clever way of introducing the Cruze as the first high quality small car from Chevy, and worth the risk. (Hey, it’s not as off the wall as using hamsters as your spokespersons, and that worked out well. LOL).
The big problem for GM would be buyer perception of reliability. A car can be great but that doesn’t mean it’s reliable. Hopefully the Cruze will be very reliable, but IMO GM is still is a half step behind Honda, Toyota, and the apparent current leader. Ford, on this metric. But even if this is true, good product can make up half a step.
+3
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:03 am)I found an interesting size comparison, the Cruze (and by extension the Volt) are not really compacts, firmly in the midsize camp in interior dimensions (inches):
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f13/chevrolet-cruze-automatic-36mpg-highway-95127/index4.html#post2141561 post #51
2011 Cruze 2011 Malibu 2010 Civic 2010 Corolla
Head room, front 39.3 39.4 38.1 38.8
Head room, rear 37.9 37.2 36.7 37.2
Shoulder room, front 54.76 55.9 53.6 54.8
Shoulder room, rear 53.9 53.9 52.3 54.6
Hip room, front 53.0 53.0 51.9 53.0
Hip room, rear 52.4 52.1 51.0 43.9
Leg room, front 42.28 42.2 42.2 41.7
Leg room, rear 35.35 37.6 34.6 36.3
Cargo volume 15.4 15.1 12.0 12.3
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:03 am)No cruise with a stick? My stick shift car has cruise and was only a $50 option. I find that very odd that the Cruze standard shift car does not have cruise control …. if that is in fact the case.
+3
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:05 am)“Part of GM’s solution to get the word out on the Cruze, and to regain lost market share from their Japanese rivals, is to return to a old strategy. Namely, asking their 3,000+ Chevrolet dealers to go out and buy a new Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic so potential Cruze customers can compare the two, right on the spot…at a Chevy dealership.”
GM may have asked, but I haven’t heard what the answer was from the big boss here. Today is Saturday, so I don’t expect to see him today, so I will inquire about it Monday.
When the Malibu first came out, GM gave everyone a chance to drive all 3 at the OC Fairgrounds. I thought it did quite well against the competition. The Cruze ‘Ride and Drive’ is scheduled for October. I’m sure it will do even better against a Civic and Corolla.
What I REALLY want to know is if GM will have a Prius and a Leaf at the upcoming “Volt Immersion Centers” so we can compare those ‘on the spot’ ourselves. I plan to take a video of that if they don’t ban my cellphone.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:07 am)I heard 1st quarter of 2011 we should get one. I can’t say for sure.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:13 am)So chevy should compare the cruse to the BMW or lexus
Tom
+4
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:13 am)Last year I needed the ability to have a vehicle with a large opening door at the rear of the vehicle. Test drove the Insight, Prius, and HHR. Bought the HHR when comparing price and performance.
If you put the VOLT next to the Cruze in the showroom, then some buyers would be upset at the price premium to buy the car with the hatchback.
+5
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:32 am)If there was BMW-like characteristic unique to the Cruze within its market segment…. then yes.
When it comes to the Volt, GM should put it up against BMWs and Lexuses and waste little time combatting the LEAF. In fact, the Volt doesn’t need the LEAF like the LEAF needs the Volt. GM has to separate the Volt from the LEAF in people’s minds, Nissan hopes the Volt will help pull it along for the ride.
-4
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:36 am)1) In my view its a foolish move. People who buy corola a and civic are followers of relablity and faith. Not just driving. It will take around 5 years on road and mouth to mouth comments to get to their market (ex: resale value, troubel free , maintance costs etc ).
2) GM seems still following the managemnt drving organization than engineering ( read there is no DCT transmission on cruze where fiesta comes with one ). By using a DCT you will be able to get manaul gear mpg on an automatic (reference : auto blog ) .
3) Still trying to compete with 4-5 year old cars ( new civc is going to be out next year – 5 yrs before they where 40 mpg – so expect 45 this time )
4) There are more factors people like (ex: the high display on civic ). there is not option HUD with cruze .
A lot of stuff they have already proved which can be added to improve ( ex: city milage improvement – high way milage is mostly good only for marketing , eco with bas+ and call it electric assist ).
I remember reading wiki on vega : GM’s German subsidiary Opel was commissioned to tool up a new 3-speed derivative of their production 4-speed manual transmission. Opel had a 4-speed available that was in high-volume production, but the GM finance department insisted that the base transmission be a low-cost 3-speed, with the traditional profit-generating 4-speed as an extra-cost option. Opel did just that, and tooled up a new 3-speed from scratch, just for the Vega application, whose actual cost was higher than the optional 4-speed due to the tooling investment and low production volume.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:40 am)Thanks. Quite hard to find a well equipped / reasonably priced / sporty / high mpg / middle size sedan car with a stick these days, other than asian cars maybe with an exception for the Ford Fusion SE (but no heated leather seat available). Too often, the manual transmission are seen by US mfg as entry level econobox only instead of fun driving experience. My Saturn (SL2 & SW2) would wait for a Volt, when available, or may it be something different like a Cruze 6 speed manual, cruise control & heated leather seat)… Never say never
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:53 am)Well they won’t need a Prius since it’s not competitive. And if the focus on “range anxiety” continues they’ll probably just have the Leaf parked off to the side with a flat battery! LOL
Sep 4th, 2010 (12:06 pm)+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (12:15 pm)A neighbor woman earlier this year traded her C5 Vette in on a new Camaro. I love looking at her car more than her, BTW.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (12:32 pm)LOL! +1
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (12:34 pm)“As a guy” you are not getting out enough if at anytime you believe cars are more interesting than great women :+} Cars are interesting but ……
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (12:34 pm)#27
We bought a used one earlier in the year to bridge over to the Volt. It really is a solid little car. I am actually pleasantly surprised. If the Cruze is substantially better, it will be VERY good. +!
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (12:51 pm)A few observations…
The base price on a Corolla is $15,450, per Edmunds. The base price on the Civic is $15,455. They are both nice cars and have excellent reputations. There’s also a fair amount of difference between the invoice and the MSRP, so dealers have some flexibility on pricing.
The Cruze will start at… what? $16,250, the last I heard But people who come in looking for the 40 mpg that Chevy will be talking up will find that that “feature” is an extra $1800! And they don’t get the 40mpg with an automatic. Lately, there’s less difference between most GM cars invoice and MSRP than on Toyota’s and Honda’s cars, so less flexibility on pricing seems likely.
I’ve seen and sat in a higher trim Cruze and it’s quite nice. But people looking for economy cars are going to have a tough time with the pricing.
As Statik points out, it’s up to the dealers to provide their own Civics and Corollas. One wonders exactly how well that’s going to work out; the Chevy dealer network is already stressed financially. How many will want to drop up to $4,000, each, on two cars for this program to sell cars that have very low margins? I say $4,000 because, of course, the dealer will sell the car when the program is over and recover much of the purchase price. But they will have to take the fat part of the depreciation. In fact, if we do the math, the dealer will probably figure that he must sell 16 to 20 EXTRA Cruzes, over what he’d sell without this comparison program, to make the program break even. Given that each dealer is looking at maybe 5 to 10 Cruzes per month (15,000 Cruzes per month across 3,000 dealers), that’s a lot of extra Cruzes in the first few months.
As Statik points out, this program probably didn’t do much for Malibu and Aura sales. It’s difficult to see why GM’s going through it, again.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (1:07 pm)Where did I infer she was a ‘great woman’? Taste in cars, maybe so…. too bad the great ‘looks’ department only applies to her cars.
Sep 4th, 2010 (1:30 pm)Let do good news: In August 2010-GM outsold in the U.S. every other brand.
The score: 185,000 (GM); 155,000 (Ford); 109,000 (Honda); Toyota (142,000). All Euro brands combined 79,000. Source: Ward’s AutoInfoBank (WardsAuto.com) More good news: Chrysler actually had an 11.2% improvement over August 2009. (100,000 … Notably also outselling all Euro brands, ante.)
The question Statik raises–aside from why GM wants to improve its competitor sales by 6000–is this: Can GM sustain its top 10 Malibu share with Cruze?
I can’t warm up to the ‘Cruze’ label. From the internet lot of people agree. Is that a marketing problem? Maybe. If we’re rebuilding brand Chevrolet – how bout a bit more creative handle.
Reading over the recent road tests, Cruze appears competitive. My take from the expert car testers is this car must have the turbo version to have a chance at Honda and Toyota.
Of all the Honda models, Civic on the excitement scale of 1-10 is a zero. For Toyota, the Corolla makes the old Chrysler K series look exciting. All GM needs do is make the Cruze the feel of a Caddy, spiced up like an SS, and create that “I want one” excitement. Start with a 10 year all-everything warranty.
Sep 4th, 2010 (1:32 pm)As you say, there is flexibility on pricing between invoice and sticker. Let’s assume the margin on the Cruze is workable – then the higher starting price should make a good salesman happy. Justifying the higher price would get the customer to focus on the car itself – exactly where the salesman wants the customer to be. Focused upon what is being sold. “More room than xxx….. better economy than yyyyy…… better features and thus certainly worth $800 more than……xxyyzz.”
Find the places where the customer sees the value of the product, and then wrap up the sale.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (1:42 pm)Yeah, I noticed that assumption (lol). I guess I’m getting too old, but *I* didn’t make it.
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (1:49 pm)What do you think about a Cruze > Volt “Bridge Leasing”? So GM can take two orders from one customer.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:00 pm)Interesting idea. I’m not sure how attractive the Cruze would be if people were driving the Volt and Cruze back-to-back. If it was *me*, I’d drive the Volt and then go into the dealership, sit down, and say “I’ll wait right here, until you can get one of those for me”. I have no idea what a rational person would do though. (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:01 pm)Motortrend does an extended test drive and review of the Plug in Prius — what should be the Volt’s main competitor (more so than the Leaf).
First Test: 2010 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle Prototype
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1009_2010_toyota_prius_plug_in_hybrid_electric_vehicle_prototype_test/index.html
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:01 pm)Nah – the Volt doesn’t need a sidekick. This could work for LEAF buyers though. They’re going to need a second car, and a Cruze is nicer than a Sentra….
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:10 pm)Try these links:
For the Volt – http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/future/volt.do and
http://media.gm.com/content/product/public/us/en/volt/home.html
For the Cruze – http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/vehicles/chevrolet/cruze/2011.brand_gm.html
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:15 pm)You just need to know where to go. See my post in #83.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
P.S. I had no problem finding the link for the Cruze. I wonder what search engine you’ll are using?
-1
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:27 pm)Thanks for the link! Interesting review. Hiving more options out there that move us toward the plug and away from the pump, seems like a good thing.
Be well,
Tagamet
-5
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:38 pm)Yea, You can imagine how hot a EREV Camaro would have been instead of a volt family wagon. I would have done a Camaro instead of a volt if I ran GM. They will never make a electric Camaro because they have no balls at all left. And don’t say that stuff about keeping it a ice for historical reasons, things need to change sometimes. A Erev Camaro would have set the sports car world upside down and inside out. For now we have the Fugly Leaf and Fugly Imev, I guess i will have to break down and buy the Focus EV as I see no other choice that isn’t too generic and ugly. OMG a Ford, lol Never would have thought!
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:42 pm)I think you misunderstand… there’s generally a larger difference between sticker and invoice on Toyotas and Hondas than Chevys. This allows the Toyota and Honda dealers to be more flexible on final price.
If the Cruze runs true to form on price vs invoice, the Chevy dealer will have less wiggle room.
Now, I agree, the way to sell this car is on value. But value is handicapped by the $1800 “Eco” option (it’s not just the eco-freaks who want good fuel economy, it’s also thrifty people – and they will talk at $1800 to save gas) and the higher price tag will prevent some people coming in the door at all.
Does the comparison test bring people in? Or does it just help sell the car if they do come in? Will it bring in enough people to justify the cost? I can’t say, definitively, one way or the other, but a higher base price is handicap in this end of the market and it’s the kind of handicap that keeps them from going to the Chevy dealer in the first place.
By the way, I’ve seen the higher trim but not the base trim. If the base trim isn’t better than a Corolla or Civic, then the Cruze loses a lot of its “value” edge.
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:54 pm)The Volt and the Leaf get an early start in 2011, but 2012 is shaping up to be ‘the’ watershed year in the movement towards “car 2.0″ as all the major manufacturers start to offer up plug in choices.
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:56 pm)Look at the last page – the specs… I don’t know where M/T got their figure but they show the base price as $26,500 (est)! Nothing about whether or not this is before or after tax credit, of course. Personally, I would not bet that this is MSRP but it is food for thought.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:57 pm)Yep, exciting times! It will be a very interesting evolution.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (2:58 pm)Hey Corvettte Guy — Is your boss set up like this….
In East Central Wisconsin, we have Bergstrom Automotive. He is the main car dealer in the region. He has all of the GM, Ford line up and almost all of the other foreign cars. Honda/Toyota/Nissan etc are grouped by brand on one sprawing lot. GM & Ford each have separate lots. Then the European Brands are grouped by brand on a sprawling lot.
I wonder if Mr. Bergrstrom will need to sell himself a Toyota & Honda to put on the Chevy lot down the line? LOL Then I wonder if the managers of Honda & Toyota lots will be mad at the Chevy manager!
As a side note it is nice to be able to walk the lots one after the other and compare Brands & Models. The frustraiting part is that you cannot have one salesman for the entire time. Each car company has its own sales people, so you got about 5 people hovering over you!!!!
Sep 4th, 2010 (3:15 pm)It’s hard to read the review and conclude anything other than that the Prius is definitely not competitive with the Volt. Forget the plug-in Prius, it’s a stinker. The power split drive just doesn’t lend itself to EV Mode. They were trying to be positive, but getting 70 MPG or whatever is a joke given that they plugged the baby in twice a day. Plus in the Volt twice a day and you’re probably looking at 500 MPG or something. Here’s the other big reason the plug-in Prius is a non-starter:
And if you’re looking for a differentiator between the PPI’s and Volt’s driving experience, this is definitely going to be among the biggest, as the Chevy, with lots more motor power and battery capacity, will be keeping its engine-generator quiet for 40 miles or so. By contrast, the PPI’s engine can be triggered if you drive away from your house enthusiastically. The average number of miles the PPI’s ‘EV’ light remained on (indicating that electrical power from being plugged in is available) was 11.7 miles. And when the Plug-In’s capacity is expended, its drop-off of EV capability is drastic.
All these cold starts mean the plug-in Prius will create as much pollution as the current Prius, which in turn is not that much more than a Buick LaCrosse. The Volt by contrast will eliminate 80% of the emissions that come from the Prius.
I disagree with Tag. To me the Prius is just obsolete technology. Toyota needs to dump it and move on or it will be left in the dust. The article makes this point when it says “and very possibly had a glimpse of the future of the automobile. Or at least, the upcoming Chevy Volt.” Yeah, that more or less says it all — the Volt is the future and the Prius is the past.
Sep 4th, 2010 (3:16 pm)I think 26,500 is a reasonable guestimate . In relative terms — there’s not a lot of hardware (battery/electronics/cooling) that gets added or structural changes that are made to the current model.
But pricing in the first year?? — Too many variables (competitor’s pricing, tax credits, early adopter frenzy, etc….) to guess on that one.
Sep 4th, 2010 (3:26 pm)GM can look at Ford as a very succesful competitor over here. The hatchbacks of the Ford Fiesta and Focus are doing very well in Europe.
Sep 4th, 2010 (3:29 pm)Come on Don. When has Motortrend ever …. EVER.. had an “as tested mpg” come out higher than EPA?
Sep 4th, 2010 (3:30 pm)Our main lot is all Chevrolet. Our smaller sister lot has Subaru and Suzuki. Doing comparisons is fine by me, but I don’t think my boss is interested in improving Honda or Toyota’s sales for the month, even if it is only by 1. Maybe he will put a Cruze next to an Impreza and Kizashi.
-5
Sep 4th, 2010 (4:17 pm)BUYER BEWARE: I have a 2009 Saturn Hybrid VUE. I am going thru my 3rd battery for the hybrid (not the starter battery). I went to my local service center in S. Florida and was told that the batteries are defective and I may have to wait weeks if not months as there are 1400 other people with the same problem. Gas mileage is terrible without the hybrid. I would NOT even think about a VOLT. Imagine the battery dies (especially on a highway). Call a tow truck and wait months for a battery. At least on a hybrid I have an engine. I would be more than happy to hear from anybody from GM and expose my address and VIN number. I previously posted this when my second battery went. LYLE this is no joke or prank!!
Sep 4th, 2010 (4:54 pm)I suspect the VUE NiMH battery is taking too many amps during the charge cycle. Shouldn’t be hard to correct. Would be good to hear how many test cycles the Volt’s Lithium T battery has successfully turned. Hope it’s at least 3000.
365 days x 10 years = 3650 cycles
=D-Volt
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (4:58 pm)Another Cruze.
=D-Volt
+7
Sep 4th, 2010 (5:03 pm)If the battery ever goes bad in a Volt you will still be able to drive anywhere. The gas generator provides electric power directly to the drive motor, bypassing the batteries.
No need to worry with the Volt. No range anxiety ever.
-2
Sep 4th, 2010 (5:04 pm)Kind of hard to call the Volt firmly in midsize range, when it only seats 4. No matter what the leg, head room, the lack of a 5th butt room is as serious downside of the Volt.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (5:33 pm)I like this car and it comes with a standard shift.
But I can’t get cruise control with the standard shift. It is not even an option!
What gives?!
-3
Sep 4th, 2010 (5:55 pm)Corolla and Civic aside the new Cruze;
inspired marketing or ill-conceived ruse?
Will it win customers or merely confuse?
In any case GM can’t afford to lose.
Will marketing set the golden egg loose
or spread the **it and honk of the goose?
-7
Sep 4th, 2010 (6:33 pm)If the battery ever goes bad in the Volt, you’ll be driving purely on the approximately 70hp ICE driving the generator, which is only 53KW or so. You’ll go but you won’t go very quickly.
Power of 70hp isn’t much for a vehicle of the Volt’s weight (est 3600 lbs, maybe more).
-2
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:26 pm)Thank you for the comments. Unfortunately I am not a mechanic. My 3rd battery, service from the Saturn service centers (which ever remain) is now horrible has left me no option. I am not waiting months for a battery. On Wednesday I am putting GM on notice that I will start Lemon Law proceedings. Is this advanced technology and how to treat customers? The car is only year and a 1/2 old with very low mileage.
Sep 4th, 2010 (7:32 pm)This makes it sound like I said that the Prius is the future, when all I said was “more options is probably a good thing. Surely there may be blind alleys in the shift to electrification, *but* anything with a plug at this point seems to take a step in the right direction. JMO.
Be well,
Tagamet
-2
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:09 pm)I’m curious about the low rating of this post. Would those who voted against it care to explain their reasoning?
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:14 pm)Mild disagreement. Mild. I just look at it differently. You see optional ways to get to B. I see more a 8 Track –> Cassette –> CD –> MP3 player progression where some options displace others.
IOW I don’t get why Toyota is bothering with the plug-in Prius in its current incarnation.
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:17 pm)LEAF has a double-page add in the front over-leaf of the Oct. Car and Driver. It’s a pretty cool add showing how far various vehicles go on $1.
“The new MPG – comparing miles per gallon is suddenly irrelevant -”
Not a single add about Volt.
-3
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:20 pm)——————————————-
Oh, waaaah! Poor baby, only four seats.
Go buy a freakin minivan if you want to haul that many people. Geez, what a crybaby.
BTW – the Volt won’t: Haul your horse trailer, haul your class C travel trailer, haul your yacht, haul the entire Yankee baseball team, haul your new water heater, yadda, yadda, yadda. Get over it.
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:23 pm)You make it sound like you don’t still have your 8-tracks… (lol).
Seriously, I get it, but as you said, er, was it *I* who said, and you’re saying I said it, uh, I think I’m getting a headache.
You’re right, I think that there are many paths to get to “B”, and I’d love to see every path investigated (except maybe EEStor).
Be well,
Tagamet
-2
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:39 pm)————————————————————–
Gm recalled over 9000 of these nickel-metal-hydride batteries beginning in 2007, made by Cobasys, due to problems in the battery manufacturing process. Check it out – your vehicle may be part of the recall (aka: free battery).
As for the Volt, you’re comparing apples to coconuts. Saturn used an old tech nickel-metal-hydride high voltage battery, using a bad supplier.
The Volt uses a self-diagnostic lithium ion battery, built and designed for the Volt, and tested more extensively than any battery in automotive history. With state of the art battery cooling, heating, and monitoring, comparing a Saturn to a Volt is an insult – to the person attempting the comparison. It shows a knee-jerk reaction on your part. Do some research before posting here.
+3
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:40 pm)Read this information and you will understand why all the negative votes you got. The generator/motor is adequate for 60 mph with normal driving.
http://gm-volt.com/2008/07/26/gm-explains-why-the-14-l-ice-range-extender-was-chosen-for-the-volt/
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:52 pm)I think you misunderstand what Nitz was saying… The Volt can get along with a 50kw generator because you will rarely use more than 50kw and will typically use less. The average power demand will be well under 50KW.
With the battery as a buffer to supply whatever the motor can use, your Volt will be able to draw more than 50KW when necessary.
The question I responded to had to do with a Volt that was crippled… the battery was out of the picture. In that case, 50KW is the maximum power available to move the vehicle. And 50KW for a vehicle of the Volt’s size will result in poor performance.
In that case, acceleration will be very poor.
Of course, GM could simply have a Volt with a failed battery shut itself down. I don’t know what the software will do about that.
Also, Nitz refers to a 100KW electric motor. Isn’t that out of date? If I recall, the motor is now sized at well over 100KW.
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:53 pm)That was the 2007 recall. This vehicle was built in 2009. In 2009, GM shouldn’t have been using batteries from a batch that was known to be bad in 2007.
-1
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:53 pm)Interesting. Why isn’t GM giving Motor Trend a Volt to test? The PPI is a 2012 introduction.
Sep 4th, 2010 (8:58 pm)Kilgore Trout: If the battery ever goes bad in the Volt, you’ll be driving purely on the approximately 70hp ICE driving the generator, which is only 53KW or so. You’ll go but you won’t go very quickly.Power of 70hp isn’t much for a vehicle of the Volt’s weight (est 3600 lbs, maybe more).
—————————————————————
—————————————————————
I gave you -1 just because of the stupid screen name you’re using.
As for the Volt, at least you CAN drive to the dealer to fix it. The Leaf would be dead in the water. And the Volt’s battery conditioning beats the stuffing out of anything Nissan or Toyota has. Your PI Prius or Leaf battery would die long before the Volt’s battery would.
Another -1 for smelling like a troll.
-2
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:09 pm)——————————————–
Wouldn’t it be better for Bruce to ask his GM representative tomorrow than continue to whine about it here today?
Since you aren’t Bruce, what do you care? Unless you ARE Bruce, posting under another screen name – like a troll. At least Bruce is a better screen name.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:16 pm)I agree Tag, and I read this MT article with interest in part because I took the exact 6 mile route the author drove on Pacific Coast Hwy to/from my office in El Segundo from my home in Redondo Beach for many years. As he implies, it’s mostly stop & go city traffic (but there’s a couple of stretches where you can get to maybe 50mph or so).
But the primary reason I found the article interesting is that I’ve long believed that the actual architecture of a PHEV such as this Toyota Prius Plug-in (PPI) —or a 2-mode plug-in such as the VUE test mule— is much less important in terms of its effective mileage than the car’s usable battery capacity versus the total travel distance in EV mode between charges and the charging regime itself. For example, the larger/heavier plug-in VUE with a Volt-like 8KWh battery achieves only ~70mpg for a 40 mile commute, because it’s battery discharges in ~20 miles. Interestingly, the new Prius PPI also achieves ~70mpg, but its 3Kwh battery discharges in roughly 10-11 miles.
Why? Because for both the VUE & Prius plug-in testing, the batteries were almost always kept fully charged. [Motor Trend: "Our (almost) ritualistic twice-a-day rechargings required about 3 hours with an ordinary 110-volt plug and consumed an average of about 3.5 kW-hr from the wall plug."]
In other words, given that Motor Trend did “ritualistic twice-a-day rechargings” for the 32 days they used the Prius Plug-in as mainly a 12-mile round-trip commuter car, 70 mpg is not at all surprising. But remember that, for 75% of the average commuter’s driving (40 miles), the Volt achieves a dramatically higher effective mileage of over 200 mpg!
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:16 pm)The problem is probably not your battery. Despite what some are saying here there is no problems with the Cobasys NiMH batteries since 2007. Someone just needs to correctly diagnose why your battery isnt charging or performing properly (resulting in the loss of hybrid functionality)
Typically a fairly simple task for someone that knows what they’re doing. I presume you are getting a “Service Hybrid System” message on the info center (and perhaps the Check Engine Lamp as well?)
Are you getting service from a GM or Chevrolet dealer I presume? (you used the term Saturn “service center” which sounds like your going somewhere else, which wont be able to provide warrantly repairs) I would suggest a Chevrolet 2-mode dealer where you are more likey to find technicans with the neccessary training and skill sets. Most of the old Saturn stores that are still operating have lost all their fully trained techncians and are doing mostly maintenance. They won;t be able to help you.
The whole Saturn thing is, well… a sad state of affairs.
WOT
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:26 pm)Well mostly because it is incorrect. In the unliekly event the Li-Ion battery ever goes bad in the Volt, it will mean a tow job to the dealer.A properly operating HV battery is absolutely neccessary for the system to even permit operation of the vehicle. Besdes the Li-Ion battery is used to START the ICE via MG1, so…
WOT
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:28 pm)I selected two of your comments. First, I didn’t misunderstand what Nitz was saying. If you read the whole link you would understand that he is saying that the generator is adequate for normal operation at 60 mph. Numerous videos of the Volt in operation going over 60mph and faster while in CS mode have been posted here at gm-volt.com.
The traction motor is rated at 111Kw/150HP. That size motor allows the Volt to go a maximum of 100 mph. The Volt battery pack usage involves the segment from 80% (85%) – 30%(35%) SOC so the battery is capable of providing assist when needed such as when passing another vehicle. In many cases, the Volt will be able to pass another vehicle with just power supplied by the generator/motor.
As stated in the article I cited, the 53Kw generator will be able to power the traction motor and charge the battery since there will be excess power generated by it.
More about the battery pack: it is far less likely to go dead than other vehicles because of the design GM has used. The battery cells are never deep discharged; they are managed by means of a liquid and air heating/cooling system; the maximum charge takes them to 80%(85%); never discharged below 20%; the ICE starts when SOC reaches 30%(35%). (figures in brackets at those mentioned in the link). (The article is dated July 26,2008; so you are right about the information is not completely accurate but I have generally given you the latest information off the GM Volt media website.)
Hope this helps you better understand how Voltec technology operates.
Happy trails to ’til we meet again.
+4
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:33 pm)this
is being replaced
by this
=D-Volt
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:39 pm)Check out Raser Technologies. They have modified a Silverado: an E-REV!
Happy trails to you’til we meet again.
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:42 pm)I noticed the “twice-a-day” charging, too. “Plugs at work” will be the new “benny” for up and coming companies (g).
I also got the sense from the article that the author had already driven a Volt, and was hedging his remarks about the Prius. Have they already published a Volt test drive, or is that something that we have to look forward to?
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:48 pm)Found some test results on the Volt T battery:
Published Jul 14, 2010
* GM announces an eight-year/100,000-mile warranty for its Volt battery.
* Warranty will cover all 161 components in the advanced lithium-ion batteries, plus the thermal management and charging systems and the electric drive components.
BROWNSTOWN TOWNSHIP, Michigan — General Motors announced Wednesday that the 2011 Chevrolet Volt will get an eight-year/100,000-mile warranty on its lithium-ion batteries. The announcement was made at GM’s plant in Brownstown Township, which is putting the batteries into production next month.
General Motors said the warranty will cover all 161 components in the advanced lithium-ion batteries, plus the thermal management and charging systems and the electric drive components. The automaker is calling the guarantee the “most comprehensive of any electric vehicle.” It’s also transferable to future owners of the car at no charge.
At the announcement on Wednesday, GM praised its Volt battery as being the only mass-market EV battery that can be warmed (up to 122 degrees F) and cooled (as low as -13 degrees F) and still run reliably. GM says its engineers have carried out a million miles and 4 million hours of Volt battery pack testing in the past three years.
=D-Volt
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:52 pm)If memory serves, Tag, Motor Trend DID test drive an early prototype Volt and reported on it. But that was a “quickie” test drive around cones in the Dodger Stadium parking lot last fall (kinda like you & I did in NYC this March). I’m pretty sure a different MT guy wrote it up, and I recall it was a very favorable writeup —but it certainly wasn’t a 32-day test like this one on the Prius plug-in.
As someone else said here today, GM: let Motor Trend do a full-blown test on a Volt!!!
Sep 4th, 2010 (9:58 pm)Given the *impending* (YAY) release date, GM better get their rear in gear and get them a Volt (though I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they already have).
Be well,
Tagamet
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:05 pm)The easiest way to sell the Cruze is to have a Volt next to it. And hype the Cruze as the second best mpg on the lot. Okay to mention it rolls 8 more mpg than Accord.
I know it isn’t official. The latest spec I saw on the Cruze is 39 mph highway. The 2010 Accord with 25 mpg (combined) isn’t that good anymore.
2010 Honda Accord LX Sedan
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Engine: 2.4L in-line 4 double overhead cam with VVT ( 10.5 :1 compression ratio ; four valves per cylinder)
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Fuel: unleaded ( 87 octane)
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Fuel consumption: city= 21 (mpg); highway= 31 (mpg); combined= 25 (mpg); vehicle range: 462 miles
=D-Volt
2011 Honda Accord Performance & Efficiency Standard Features
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Fuel: unleaded ( 87 octane)
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Fuel consumption: city= 21 (mpg); highway= 31 (mpg); combined= 25 (mpg); vehicle range: 462 miles
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Multi-point injection fuel system
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18.5 gallon fuel tank
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:18 pm)I have a trunk full of cassettes in the Miata…
Nothing wrong retro, & being cheap~
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:50 pm)O.T.
Reuters’ take on the GM IPO
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN0315109920100903
Stay away from the comments there. They are I am afraid not very complimentary on the bail-out and bankruptcy.
+1
Sep 4th, 2010 (10:59 pm)GM plans to begin a roadshow for its IPO immediately after the Nov. 2 U.S. midterm congressional elections, paving the way for a stock debut on Nov. 18, sources have said.
A Thursday IPO, one day after the Volt goes into production. Wonder when GM will announce more EREV models to follow. On the 18th or a few weeks after?
=D-Volt
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:18 pm)I sort of expected today’s thread to be Statik’s take on the IPO.
Today, instead we had a story on the Cruze, and comments on why it may be a good car, but not for us. I am sure we are atypical, but a concerning development non the less.
Still want a Volt though~
The Beauty of a Volt, made in USA and not really dependent on foreign oil (we will give a couple of bucks so they can buy some good old USA mp3′s).
+2
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:28 pm)Do you think GM could build something like this for under 20k?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car
Cooler than a Cruze, to me anyway.
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:36 pm)The VW above appears to be a three wheeler similar to this one. They are much narrower and allow many more vehicles on our highways.
http://www.arcimoto.com/
I’ll take the Cruze anyway/
Happy trails to you’til we meet again.
Sep 4th, 2010 (11:54 pm)Four wheels, and I would assume as safe as a car~
Tires are sure narrow, with a big flat battery on the bottom it should handle well.
Happy Roads Ahead
Sep 5th, 2010 (12:13 am)$16,275 Dollars. That’s a very good competitor price now let’s see how far this car can go against foreign competitors? Especially when it comes to fuel efficiency, safety features, and extra features such as a navigation system a must have for anyone who is wanting to bye a car so your never lost ever again.
Sep 5th, 2010 (12:24 am)I meant buy my mistake.
+2
Sep 5th, 2010 (1:02 am)They need to make in a BEV!
Happy trails to you.
Sep 5th, 2010 (1:26 am)Interesting vehicle. Don’t see it winning against the small Japanese and Korean cars. These offer seating for 4 and trunk space. Students need to haul items and sit next to each other during dates. May work for a single exec. But why go with a small underpowered car if you have a decent cash flow? Is great for light courier duty and door to door PC repair. The thin wheels will need to be replaced often. Access to the cabin may be difficult for retired people.
=D-Volt
-1
Sep 5th, 2010 (6:21 am)The Cruze will have the same problem all American made cars have… no acess to major markets. The Japanese have a unfair advantage in that we let them dump their products in our market while they put huge tariffs on our products. You cannot build a product good enough to overcome this. Lyle should mention this if he is serious about the VOLTs future. There is no future for American companies in the current unfair “global” market
.
Sep 5th, 2010 (6:40 am)Being a smallish car I think the material costs would be less? Students could throw their trash in the back, how many times do you see two in the same car? Any way I was thinking commuting and EREV. It would fit my mantra of *No Boring Cars*.
Of course it would not be for everybody~
Sep 5th, 2010 (6:46 am)My bet is that GM has various plans drawn up for EREV (VOLTEC) technology expansion. However, I think they will sit tight on announcements until late 2011. It will give them the opportunity to see hohw the technology is accepted and a better feel for the market
Sep 5th, 2010 (6:52 am)The Cruze is a world car, made in China & Europe, we are the last to get it. I think Lyles point, is to get off of imported oil and buy American made! Statik, who wrote this piece, questions the wisdom of putting the competitors machines in the Chevy Showroom. There is some talk of exporting the Volt.
Cheers
+1
Sep 5th, 2010 (7:13 am)Look what GM did on Volt pricing. They started with a number in mind ($40k). Then mentioned that they wouldn’t give MSRP until closer to launch. Because the final price hinged on the price of oil and the state of the economy. If oil were $98 per barrel. And GDP had gained by 5%. We may have seen $46k MSRP on the Volt.
The same will happen with the IPO. GM has a price in mind. The IPO is reported to be timed just days after the Volt goes into production. GM wants the IPO to remain in a trading range for as long as possible. This price can be maintained by metering good news. If GM stock dips more than 6% or 7%. GM is very likely to mention more EREV in the pipeline. Whatever it takes to keep the price up. This will carry the stock until quarterly earnings are released. This can also be adjusted to look good by holding off on parts flow and delaying expansion plans.
=D-Volt
Sep 5th, 2010 (7:34 am)Very well thought out +1
Sep 5th, 2010 (9:19 am)I understand it completely. You didn’t read the post on which my original response was based.
Now, if there’s no limp-home mode and a dead battery (the pack could fail for a variety of reasons, short circuit, loose connections, etc), then the car’s immobile and my response is irrelevant.
However, if the car has a mode where it’s relying on the generator and generator alone for motive power, then performance necessarily degrades to about 70hp.
Of course, as was pointed out, the car must be started to move and the traction battery handles that. My reply is moot, as there can’t be a limp-home mode.
Sep 5th, 2010 (10:06 am)It’s not hype. It’s decades of experience with great cars. GM and Ford didn’t make anything competitive with the Civic, Accord, Camry, and Corolla until recently and didn’t want to.
I just bought an F-150 with/for my mother, and it’s clear that the F-150 was where Ford’s effort was going — the Focus from the same year (a rental that I drove for a week) was just barely a competent car. I also rented a Cobalt recently, and I found it to be a sub-par car — it had pretty good power and handling (which I don’t value), but the interior of the car was falling apart and it didn’t have the features that I expect in a rental car (power door locks) (which I do value). Maybe part of the fault was the rental agency’s fault for buying a low trim-level, but between crawling around and locking the doors and trying to shove the trim panels back into place, I was left with a very negative impression of the car. I was very glad to get back into my Prius.
I’ve owned lots of American and Foreign vehicles. The 1989 Ford Tempo that I owned in college kind-of scared me off of American cars, in a very literal way, and the Focus and Cobalts that I’ve driven haven’t really done much for me. The Honda Accords and Civics that I’ve owned/driven have been very nice practical cars. The Volkswagen Jetta that I owned was a maintenance nightmare, even though I liked driving it. The Prius in my driveway is an excellent car, even though the power and handling aren’t anything special (I don’t value those things much) — the reliability, efficiency, and use of interior space are much more important to me.
Note that I haven’t talked about midsize cars, luxury cars, or SUVs. These cars are all bigger / more expensive / less efficient than my requirements. I don’t care how the competition works out there, because these aren’t the right cars for me.
As for trucks, I’m sold on American trucks. I’ve owned a Ranger for years, and it’s a bit on the primitive side and requires more maintenance than the Hondas or Toyotas that I’ve owned, but at 178k miles it still runs as well as the day I bought it — even though I’ve had to replace every accessory on the engine (and most more than once), and I’ve had to replace ball joints, shocks, and so forth. (Japanese small-car parts last a *lot* longer than 100k miles.)
The F-150 is a VERY nice vehicle in every respect, and highly refined. Except that it requires 2.5 times the gasoline to go the distance that my Prius goes, and the extra size provides no benefit for my commute, Also, the variant that would be able to function both as a small car and a ginormous pickup truck costs about $40l. It can also tow my Prius — but it just doesn’t make sense to drive a pickup truck when a small car will do the job. Sometimes I need a pickup truck, but I need a small car most of the time. So I keep a 12-year-old pickup around for when I need to move heavy objects.
I’ve driven the Tacoma, and it’s a pretty nice truck (and much more technologically advanced than my Ranger) — but I haven’t found anything compelling enough about it to shell out the money for one. There doesn’t seem to be any boost in MPGs and there seems to be a bigger increase in cost, but I’ll have to do some research to see if the reliability is higher than a comparable Ranger. If they’d put the hybrid powertrain from the Higlander Hybrid into a pickup truck, I’d buy one in an instant — with some careful and clever modifications, it can become a mobile electric powerplant, and I’ve been surprised by when I need mobile power.
So, in short, your supposition that I like Japanese cars because of the hype is just plain wrong. I like Japanese cars because they’re better cars for me. I like American trucks, because they seem to be both durable and refined.
Sep 5th, 2010 (11:24 am)It doesn’t need a limp mode; its got the ICE to burn gasoline.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Sep 5th, 2010 (12:46 pm)GM always had a “limp home” mode for the technology in its cars. My Service Manual for my present 1995 Buick Regal mentions that if the ECM fails, the EC system will work on default values which will allow the engine to stay running and the car to be driven. If you see the “Engine Check” light come on, don’t park and stop the engine. It may not start again. Just drive until you get to a safe location (the “limp home” feature), then stop the car and get it serviced.
Maybe the GM engineers did better for my Dad’s 1967 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. The engine caught fire due to a leak from the 4-barrel carburator on a hot manifold. We put the fire out, and the car could still start and be driven home. Only the choke and the air filter were burned.
GM may have been testing the “limp home” feature on the Volt for this past year before starting production. Would anyone be willing to test it?
Raymond
Sep 5th, 2010 (11:31 pm)So, GM, you’re going to to let potential Cruze customers test drive the competition at Chevy dealerships?
This does not surprise me; GM is headed by an imbecile from the Carlyle Group.
Almost as bad as the time they were only going to sell the Volt on eBay.
Anyone remember that?
GM, you got knocked on your a s s when the economy took a nose-dive. You don’t need to be engaging in ludicrous idiotic PR/Sales stunts like this.
Featuring your competition at your own dealerships?
STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!!
Sep 7th, 2010 (10:39 pm)I’VE BEEN ROOTING FOR GM FOR SO LONG NOW AND WOULD LIKE TO BUY ONE OF THEIR CARS, BUT I LOOK AT THE STYLING OF THE NEW CRUZE AND REMAIN DISAPPOINTED…THERE IS NOTHING FRESH OR INSPIRING ABOUT THE FOUR DOOR (IT’ S BORING)….THE HATCHBACK IS MUCH NICER….TOO BAD THE MARKETING TEAM SEEMS OBLIVIOUS TO WHAT PEOPLE WANT….YET AGAIN….