On the same day GM announced one of its greatest quarterly profits in a long time, CEO Ed Whitacre dropped a bombshell; he is stepping down as CEO effective September 1st. He will continue on the board of directors until the end of the year.
Replacing Whitacre as CEO will be Dan Akerson, 61, who has served on GM’s board since July 2009. Akerson has been CEO of XO Communications, Nextel and General Instrument Corp and managing director of the Carlyle group.
“My goal in coming to General Motors was to help restore profitability, build a strong market position, and position this iconic company for success,” said Whitacre. “We are clearly on that path. A strong foundation is in place and I am comfortable with the timing of my decision.”
“There are remarkable opportunities ahead for the new GM, and I am honored to lead the company through this next chapter,” said Akerson. “Ed Whitacre established a foundation upon which we will continue building a great automobile company.”
Akerson will thus be the fourth CEO at the helm of GM since the Volt concept was first introduced, and hopefully the last before the car is finally launched.
It is not clear if Akerson will only serve in an interim capacity. Whitacre claims his job was always intended to be temporary. “Ed and I share a common vision for the company, where it is today and where we hope to take it in the future,” said Akerson in a conference call. Discussion of his future plans and priorities “would be premature,” he said.
Our favorite car expert Bob Lutz, now in retirement from GM, answered an email from the AP about his opinion on Akerson with whom he worked prior to retiring.
“He’s very strong, very opinionated, not always right, and needs to work on listening skills,” Lutz said. “If he can bring himself to trust his now-outstanding senior executive group and lead rather than direct, I think he’ll do an outstanding job.”
This entry was posted on Thursday, August 12th, 2010 at 10:39 am and is filed under Financial. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+10
Aug 12th, 2010 (10:44 am)Ed, thanks for stepping into the breach and holding it all together.
+4
Aug 12th, 2010 (10:49 am)WHAT!!! I sure did not see that one coming!
Thanks for your hard work! Hopefully you catch some big Fish in TX.
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (10:58 am)Odd timing I did not expiect this until after the IPO
+31
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:01 am)GM is going through executives like Capt. Jack goes through Kahlua.
+4
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:02 am)Musical chairs over at GM.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:04 am)What a surprise! I hope that his health is well. Best of wishes to you sir.
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:11 am)Ed was there to sell the IPO, that was the excuse why a non car guy was at the top. It would have been nice to have the next guy actually know something about cars or GM. Akerson has been on the board about for about 12 months. He has to be just interrm and GM just is not saying that-same as they did for Henderson.
+21
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:14 am)There is now only one person who can guide the Volt into production ……. Voltron !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uS5b8aQ6z8
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:19 am)It’s beginning to seem like no one sticks around for more than a few months once they hit the top levels of management at GM. I wonder if the cause has something to do with the structure of the compensation packages for the executives (i.e., once they get to a certain level, they stick it out for a few months for show and then pull the rip-cord on their golden parachute, making room for the next guy to gouge the company/tax payers).
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:31 am)The GM situation was a very special situation, considering the dire consequences of failure by anyone involved since the bankruptcy. I personally feel everyone that has been involved with saving GM should be considered national heroes and congratulated and thanked for their service. JMHO
+7
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:32 am)Fritz Henderson looks better every day.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:34 am)I very much doubt Whitacre got a golden parachute. He did, however, get a rather nice salary (1.7 million) plus 7.3 million worth of stock. So he did pretty well for himself…
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-CEO-Whitacre-receives-9M-apf-362235582.html?x=0&.v=5
-10
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:35 am)(click to show comment)
+5
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:57 am)The timing makes sense to me. You don’t want a CEO stepping down AFTER the IPO do you? That would scare investors and the stock would drop like a rock…at least short term. This way, everyone gets a chance to develop an opinion and get comfortable with Akerson…THEN do the IPO.
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:58 am)Actually, this was expected in the Detroit area. He was a ‘white knight’ – brought in to manage the resurrection, which he did very well in conjunction with CFO Chris Liddel’s financial magic, not to be a long-term king/CEO.
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:59 am)… there goes Lyle’s Volt… at least Whitacre’s promise…
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:02 pm)Wow. In the last thread I said he would be gone. I just didn’t think it would be this soon.
I’m surprised about sitting yet another non-car guy (heck, another telcom guy) in this spot. Ford at least has Mulally who is a manufacturing guy.
The CEO needs to be personable, articulate and the best sales guy they can field. We’ll see how this one pans out.
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:03 pm)I’m sure the new man will do a good job and he looks intelligent. However who would want to be CEO for very long for such a fractured American Company that has to deal with goofy unions that are trying to bankrupt the company?
After yesterdays big profit announcement I guess the unions will be bellying up to the bar demanding their cut, (like they’re actually responisble for doing something good at GM). The so called be big profit is only 4% of revenue and could be easily wiped out by one bad union contract. Are you paying attention Dan ? Go Volt Go.
-1
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:10 pm)You don’t want a CEO stepping down at all unless it’s communicated a long time in advance with an obvious transition plan. That obviously didn’t happen here.
The large investors interested in buying GM at the IPO are today buying old GM (MTLQQ) bonds. This surprise announcement does not increase their comfort level.
+10
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:17 pm)I think they should have kept Wagoner.
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:19 pm)“Akerson will thus be the fourth CEO at the helm of GM since the Volt concept was first introduced, and hopefully the last before the car is finally launched.”
In time of great change there are a lot of changes (the only real constant).
The VOLT has been a constant in the open communication of its design. Let us hope the new.. er “next” CEO will keep that appreciation for this car and the future it may bring to Chevy and this country.
Has the VOLT now lost ALL of the people that were working on it when announced in 07?
We need to keep watching to learn how the VOLT will evolve in Gen II and Gen III and ….
+5
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:24 pm)Me too. He wasn’t the world’s greatest CEO. But he was better than the musical chairs alternative.
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:33 pm)Not to split hairs, but Voltron isn’t a person, exactly! At any rate, he *sure* ain’t gonna fit in the boardroom…
I’m thinking we must already have a regular around here named “Ron.” Wouldn’t that make him “Volt Ron”?
Oh, and lest I forget, thanks Ed! I think you did a fine job and I wouldn’t have minded seeing you hang around a while longer.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:33 pm)Edward E. Whitacre Jr., Thank you for a job well done. You said you didn’t know much about cars but you decided to keep the Volt program going. My God, how smart are you?! Please rest up a bit because you deserve it. I’m guessing resting for you will mean you are only a board member for a few companies or some equal amount of type A output? Where do you get your energy? I wish you good health.
-1
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:38 pm)WAT?
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (12:48 pm)From Statik’s last blog.
“That 5.45 million is money that will be well earned. Mr. Liddell now seems well suited to take over the company when current CEO Ed Whitacre Jr. goes silently into the night.”
Well, maybe silently, should have replaced by SUDDENLY.
Aug 12th, 2010 (1:01 pm)Especially, given the “Shout it from the rooftops” announcement.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (1:08 pm)Lutz had more to say about new guy on CNBC. He was a Navy Nuke officer. This is either very good or very bad. Nukes aren’t often thought of as progressive. However, they are usually people who can extract good things from subordinates. If he is the kind that listens to and motivates his subordinates, GM may indeed benefit with him at the helm.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (1:14 pm)At the very least, I’d guess that he’s one that attends to the details…. “Ensign, what was that launch code again?” (g)
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (1:15 pm)The guy is managing director of the Carlyle group. Their biggest holdings are in the oil/energy sector.
Does having a CEO with big ties to the oil industry make sense for GM? Does it make sense for GM’s move into alternative energy vehicles?
I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (1:27 pm)At this rate, in a few years, Lyle might be CEO. (GM should have Lyle on the board of directors, now.)
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (1:37 pm)YEARS??? Lol, I’m sure it’ll be sooner than that.
Be well,
Tagamet
-12
Aug 12th, 2010 (2:06 pm)(click to show comment)
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (2:28 pm)I doubt he’d want the job….
+16
Aug 12th, 2010 (2:31 pm)Why don’t you go to an apple fan board and ask the same questions for the IPAD? If you ever get an official answer, I’d love to hear it.
Aug 12th, 2010 (2:37 pm)True that! I suspect that he likes his current gig (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
-15
Aug 12th, 2010 (2:54 pm)(click to show comment)
+22
Aug 12th, 2010 (2:58 pm)You keep visiting this site and touting the Plug In Prius like we should be impressed. I just read the Car and Driver review:
“And so the parallel-hybrid powertrain design, the squishy suspension setup, and the puny 15-inch wheels remain, giving the PHV the same lackluster driving characteristics as its non-plug-in sibling. That includes the way-overboosted electric power steering and a brake pedal that has yet to deliver anything close to accuracy.
Going Farther, Faster on Electrons
The most palpable difference between the standard and PHV Priuses, then, is how a judicious right foot can direct the PHV to achieve and maintain speeds of up to 62 mph using electricity alone. Like a regular Prius, though, the PHV will fire up its internal-combustion engine if you’re not careful. The PHV’s threshold is slightly higher than the regular car’s, but anything more than genteel pressure on the go pedal—say, as might be required to enter the freeway or accelerate up a slight hill—and the 98-hp, 1.8-liter four-cylinder stirs with a decidedly unsexy moan.
Keep your driving grandmotherly, though, and a Prius PHV with a full charge can travel up to 13 miles in electric mode, which becomes considerably more novel the faster one travels. Once the battery pack is depleted, the car reverts to the conventional hybrid function of the standard Prius.”
I’m supposed to be impressed by that? No thanks. I’ll wait for the Volt. It will be worth the extra price.
+5
Aug 12th, 2010 (2:59 pm)The Volt: “allow people to drive around”
It’s a car for crying out loud. Why would a car have a “mission-statement”?????
A company would have a “mission-statement” not a car. LOL
Best question; Why do you post here?
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:07 pm)Sounds like Lutz has some ideas for Akerson to be sucessful. I wonder how long Akerson will last?
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:08 pm)“He’s very strong, very opinionated, not always right, and needs to work on listening skills,” Lutz said.” – Listening Skills!!??!! Max Bob, we need you back more than ever!!!
No worries, a new CEO will be announced by next summer….
GO EV!!!!
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:09 pm)A car might not have a “mission statement” but cars DO make “statements”.
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:22 pm)I think most people knew this was coming, just not exactly when.
Subject change: I just got a call from a Chevrolet Volt Adviser thanking me for my interest in the Volt. He spoke very quickly about how I’d be assigned a single Volt Adviser that would guide me through the process of getting my production number, taking delivery, and setting up 240V charging if I wanted. Nice to see Chevrolet is staying in contact with their Volt customers.
Also called up the dealer where I’m on their waiting list to talk about MSRP. They told me that if I order the car when my number comes up, they will sell it for MSRP. If I didn’t order then, and later on decided I wanted to order a Volt, that would probably require a dealer swap, which would add to the MSRP. Right now, their best estimate is that I should be getting a call from the sales manager by the end of the year to get my confirmation number and place a deposit.
The Volt’s wheels are getting ever closer to getting on the road!
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:26 pm)OMG
Isnt it oh so obvious that John and usbseawolf are one and the same!
(or at the very least a “concerted” effort)
Way to give yourself props ass-hat!
LB.
+6
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:33 pm)For your attention. They get lonely living in their mom’s basement.
Be well,
Tagamet
+5
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:42 pm)Commuting is low speed. Average door-to-door speed for a typical commuter is below 35 mph. And please provide a link for your highway passing times, I’ve been looking for good test data without much luck.
+4
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:49 pm)Hey at least I got it right he was gone now the IPO was coming. No one can say I was surprised, lol. Seriously (or maybe not), Ed has really been a professional hermit at GM until about 2 weeks ago, he has really loosened up on the way out of the CEO office.
Personal speculation only – no way Akerson keeps this job and Liddell stays where he is. I figure Liddell has to reprint his business cards by year’s end when Whitacre leaves as Chairman.
-8
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:50 pm)You can do better than that. Is it the only thing you can relate to?
I am only here to discuss about the cars. I don’t work here full-time and do part-time valet parking.
+8
Aug 12th, 2010 (3:54 pm)“Our favorite car expert Bob Lutz, now in retirement from GM, answered an email from the AP about his opinion on Akerson with whom he worked prior to retiring.
“He’s very strong, very opinionated, not always right, and needs to work on listening skills,” Lutz said. “If he can bring himself to trust his now-outstanding senior executive group and lead rather than direct, I think he’ll do an outstanding job.”
LOL–if that’s not damning praise, then nothing is.
As long as they’re churning thru CEO’s, why don’t you take over next, Lyle, then me then Capt. Jack, then everyone else on this board. In fact, make every taxpayer CEO for a day.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:01 pm)I’ve heard a lot worse suggestions (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
+4
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:04 pm)The PHEV Prius is $48,000.
+7
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:05 pm)LOL
What the #$%^ are you talking about?
FYI the 40 miles is based on the EPA’s rigorous 2008 UDDS city cycle which is 22.8 minutes long spread over 7.5 miles and includes now fewer than 18 rapid accelerations from a brief stop (and a peak maximum speed of 58mph in one cycle)
With a full charge the Volt can complete 5.4 of these in succession over a 120 minute period in pure EV mode!
Compare that to the Japanese JC08 urban cycle that Toyota is using to establish the PHEV Prius’ 14 mile EV range, that has a MUCH lower average speed, (peak is only 48mph) has only 11 accelerations from stop, AND includes almost 2 minutes of idle time per 6 minute cycle!
(apparently their EV range is greatly improved if you don’t move! LOL)
http://lucienk.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!A4AE3FB12A26635!1247.entry
Also FYI, While in Sport-mode the Volt TROUNCES the Prius at ANY acceleration from ANY point of the drive cycle, AND in all electric while doing so! (no ICE required as the case in “either” Prius)
You’re clearing showing that you know as little about your beloved Prius as you do the VOLT!
WopOnTour
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:06 pm)I got the same call just now – I had put my $1000 deposit down and ordered the first day you could. They also told me they would contact me when production of my volt began and I would be able to go to the Voltage website for updates
+7
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:14 pm)Now that we know this, there are other critical questions:
We await a mission-statement for the plug-in Priuis.
With so many changes to the vehicle itself combined with so much suffling of management, the intent is far from clear now…
Who is the market for the plug-in Prius?
How much of overall production will use the technology within the next few years?
When are the profit expectations from the technology within the next few years?
What is the price target for the technology within the next few years?
Maybe John can help us out here?
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:15 pm)Congrats! (grumble, grumble, Gen II, grumble..)
Be well,
Tagame
-10
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:17 pm)(click to show comment)
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:17 pm)LOL amazing post Don!!
+100
WOT
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:21 pm)So now there’s yet another new boss? So just about the time everyone understands the game plan you change the coach again?
+4
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:22 pm)====================================
Since it looks like GM may be running out of people to run the company, I would like to submit my name as a candidate for the next available person to be the CEO of GM. It doesn’t look like you have to have any experience in the automobile business to have this job, so I should be more than qualified.
For our Star Trek Prius Buddy, here will be the new mission statement at GM:
To design and build the best vehicles on the planet. At a profit when we can, at a loss if we must, but always to be the best.
My personal mission statement:
I will put Voltec and BEV vehicles as my highest priority. General availability of the Volt will be nationwide in the USA and in Canada by the time the 2012 model year is available. Worldwide availability no later than the 2013 model year. It is time to show the world that GM is back, and that we will lead with innovative technology.
I will personally fire anyone that thinks it makes more sense to save a few cents and make an inferior product for sale. We will produce only the best. Nothing else is acceptable. And I will demand the same from everyone that works for GM, as well as our dealer network.
And I will work cheap. One million per year in salary is more than enough for me. If I make the company money, give me a bonus. If not, toss me out the door. Simple ideas, but time proven.
I look forward to hearing from the board of directors in the near future!
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:25 pm)You’re joking I hope. Last I checked the Volt wasn’t purporting to compete with the Tesla Roadster. As a matter of fact GM has explicitly said the Volt is targeting the Prius.
-8
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:25 pm)That has already been provided. Here it is again:
The market is those who purchase vehicles such as Camry & Corolla, just like Prius is now… mainstream buyers.
The overall production is expected to be 1,000,000 per year for all hybrids from Toyota/Lexus shortly after the rollout of the plug-in model begins.
The plug-in model is expected to be profitable from day 1, no next-gen required.
The target price is $4,000 for the plug-in option available on a mid-grade package.
-6
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:31 pm)When? Who? Still?
For that matter, which model Prius?
And if that’s the case, what’s with all the discussion about Leaf?
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:37 pm)“The commercial version is expected to sell for around USD 48,000, and production during the first year is expected to vary between 20,000 and 30,000 units.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug_in_Prius
So the mid-grade ‘regular’ 2012 Prius is expected to sell for $44,000?? Yikes!
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:45 pm)Ah. Lightbulb. I was looking for 17:01 in the Bible under the book of John.
-9
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:54 pm)My average commute speed is about 40 MPH. That’s with 80% at around 70 MPH highway and 20% crawling. That’s how average speed is misleading.
See the 62-79 MPH acceleration test @3:50 min. It is not bad but Prius does it with 3 seconds less. Also notice how fast the other cars were passing. I think they were on NJ turnpike and the speed limit there is 65 MPH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH60SAcTcPc
Aug 12th, 2010 (4:55 pm)1)
Have Mr. Liddel stay put while he orchestrates the IPO, and then move to the top job?
2) Old soldier Bob Lutz – not a strong endorsement of the new CEO. The “needs improvement” skills recs would be more likely with an early career level job rather than a major corp CEO gig. But then the good Mr. Lutz has always spoken frankly.
-7
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:01 pm)Prius starts from $22,800 to $28,070. Mid-grade would be $25k. If the plugin option is $4k and there will be $2,900 tax credit, it’ll cost you $1.1k extra.
So, the PHV Prius comes out to around $26k, about the price of Nissan Leaf.
John, is the $4k PHV option before or after the tax credit?
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:11 pm)“He’s very strong, very opinionated, not always right, and needs to work on listening skills,” Lutz said.
Lutz is politely saying is that Akerson is a bad leader. Yikes…
-5
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:14 pm)Thank you for making my point. Highway driving requires much more power due to the wind resistance. 8kWh will be good only for 18 miles at high speeds.
BTW, I am still waiting for your “dissection” of my post in the Patent Application thread.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:20 pm)From Wikipedia:
“in July 1999, Akerson was brought in by Craig McCaw to run Nextlink Communications, later rebranded as XO Communications.[3] XO entered bankruptcy in June 2002, and Akerson resigned as CEO in December 2002.[4]”
Akerson is really going to have to prove himself. Don’t know how people like this end up with top jobs.
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:25 pm)Sounds like he’ll fit right in.
-10
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:25 pm)(click to show comment)
+4
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:34 pm)You have my vote! But go for Chairman of the Board. It probably has more power to get things done.
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:39 pm)I’ll second the motion and call for the nominations to be closed.
Be well,
Tagamet
+4
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:46 pm)OK, Exxon/Mobile board member and GM CEO Whitacre goes and is replaced by a bigger proponent of big oil. This oil baron on GM’s board of directors, and a warrior from the telecommunications wars will see Volt and Voltecs become the standard for which others strive and are compared?
Fun fact: Daniel F. Akerson is famous for being the Chairman of Carlyle Group – a private equity investment firm very very heavily invested in the oil industry. In fact, Carlyle group, in 2006 in partnership with Riverside Holdings in 2006 were members of a consortium of private equity firms including Goldman Sachs Capital Partners that completed the $27.5 billion (including assumed debt) acquisition of Kinder Morgan, one of the largest pipeline operators in the US. The buyout was backed by Richard Kinder, the company’s co-founder and a former president of Enron who was ousted after a dispute with Enron’s founder, Kenneth L. Lay.
Fun Fact II: In 2009, Riverstone and The Carlyle Group came under investigation by New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo as part of a larger probe of the New York State Common Retirement System. Cuomo’s investigation scrutinized payments made by Riverstone to a number of placement agents that had political connections in the state. Cuomo alleged that these payments were directly in relation to approximately $530 million in commitments from the New York State pension fund between 2003 and 2005 that were made to various private equity funds raised by the Carlyle/Riverstone joint venture. In June 2009, Riverstone agreed on to pay $30 million to resolve its role in the Cuomo investigation. – From Wikipedia.
Assignment for today: Look up Carlyle Group and also go to Riverside Holding’s website. Explore the ratio of sustainable energy dollars spent in relation to the dollars spent drilling new wells in the Gulf of Mexico. Notice how they’ll tout spending $200 million for sustainable energy industry then turn around and spend 100 billion in oil exploration, implementation and distribution. Now note how Mr. Daniel F. Akerson is well versed in bribing ( excuse me, I mean paying off — pardon me, I mean dealing with government in regards to certain rules ( mileage and eco mandates? ) and getting them watered down or just passed over.
Does any Volt fan here believe these guys are champions of the electrification of the automobile sector, or the lessoning of oil being used by the commercial transportation industry?
Let’s see a show of hands.
RECHARGE!
James
-2
Aug 12th, 2010 (5:49 pm)Carlyle group again. Highly political with two Bushes in their ranks.
If anyone has read “Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude by Robert Baer” – the group has been mentioned with rather unflattering details.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:00 pm)Another opinion from Ed Niedermeyer of http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/breaking-ed-whitacre-to-step-down-as-gm-chairmanceo/
“Whitacre emphasized that GM’s board knew that he didn’t plan on staying, and yet no effort appears to have been made to find a CEO from outside the organization. Why Akerson was selected was not clear, other than that he allowed the board to make an easy decision and a smooth transition. Overall, the perception seems to be that GM is profitable and under control, and that settling into cruise control makes perfect sense at this point. With GM making money in a weak market environment, and with 30-40 percent more production capacity available without a strong ramp-up in fixed costs, there’s a certain case for this perspective. On the other hand, Opel and Daewoo are still in deep trouble, unfunded pensions loom, and GM’s North American fleet sales are clearly being boosted by incentives and daily rental fleet sales. Akerson is going to have to show something other than a caretaker’s perspective if GM’s turnaround is going to overcome these obstacles.”
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:01 pm)Well if these are answers, then for the Volt:
1. Everyone who wants the best green EV technology which uses the least amount of oil without the worry of range limitations. Aims to replace cars such as the Prius and the hybrid Fusion.
2. Overall production goals are 2.4M units by 2020 (per Bob Lutz interview in the Economist).
3. Depending on how you want to splice and dice it, and whether you want to count publicity and pick up share in the most desireable demographics, profitability either in Gen II or from day one Gen I.
4. Target price for Gen II is under $30K without rebates.
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:05 pm)Let’s pretend the Prius is the same price as the VOLT:
The Prius is: Smaller, Slower in EV Mode, Slower in Gas Mode, Only travels up to 13 miles in EV Mode IF YOU “Keep your driving grandmotherly”, Switches to Gas Mode “if you’re not careful”, and “and a brake pedal that has yet to deliver anything close to accuracy….” which makes me wonder if it can even stop safely.
So, if the Plug In Prius really is MORE $$$…. Yeah. That’ll have ‘em lining up.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:06 pm)I think the mega term of the day would have to be:
MAJOR conflict of interest
RECHARGE!
James
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:12 pm)Don’t play with the Dipstick.
Be well,
Tagamet
+4
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:16 pm)The problem with you is that you can’t seem to get your head around the fact that EVs don’t use gas. That’s why they are cool and desireable. For example, assuming you’re correct about those 18 miles at high speed — and you are most definitely not — those 18 miles would work just fine for me. Moreover the 8 kWh needed for those 18 miles would come from my excess solar capacity which right now I’m losing.
You think that going 18 miles at high speed is terribly deficient. OK. Let me ask you a couple of question. Could I go 18 miles in a Prius without using any gas? Could I go at “high speed” for 1 mile without the gas guzzling emission spewing engine coming on? If the answers to those questions are no, why in the world are you driving such a horrible car as a Prius?
+5
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:20 pm)No need to worry about the Prius. The only competition for the Volt is the Leaf. The Prius is dead. Put a fork in it.
What’s funny is that two guys in a garage in Poway have done a conversion that actually makes the Prius somewhat competitive with the Volt. But you’ll lose the trunk.
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:21 pm)Maybe Whitacre is just shy.
Maybe big Ed was getting an uneasy feeling about all the “pre-IPO cooked books”.
Maybe he’d rather slip off into the night and avoid the limelight that will shine so bright during the 2011 CSPAN congressional hearings.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:27 pm)Maybe.
Be well,
Tagamet
-3
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:27 pm)+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:30 pm)If this is true why in the world would anyone buy the standard Prius? You’re talking about a $1K premium to go from 50 MPG to maybe 65 MPG. Does this mean that Toyota is phasing out the standard Prius? Or does it, shades of the entry level Prius no one has ever been able to buy, mean that Toyota doesn’t plan on actually making very many? Based on what you are saying it has to be one or the other.
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:32 pm)From the article:
“He’s very strong, very opinionated, not always right, and needs to work on listening skills,” Lutz said. “If he can bring himself to trust his now-outstanding senior executive group and lead rather than direct, I think he’ll do an outstanding job.”
A$$hole, for short.
-3
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:52 pm)To take this a little further …..
(and a disclaimer for myself, this is NOT my area, so this is just conspiracy guy rambling)
Apparently, GM is very close (within days) of filing an “S-1″ for IPO.
I would think that Whitacre (as CEO) would be ultimately responsible and have his name on the bottom line of that S-1.
If there are out and out lies in the S-1 than I would think that would make the signing party guilty of fraud (and eligible for jail time) if said lies could be proven.
IPO basics, meet the S-1
http://www.hoovers.com/global/msn/index.xhtml?pageid=1972
Fraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
/conspiracy guy, .. out
-1
Aug 12th, 2010 (6:59 pm)/conspiracy guy meet James.
James, meet /conspiracy guy.
Be well,
Tagamet
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:03 pm)Well he does have a few days to get Lyle his Volt…
Could be Lyle is driving it right now, tomorrows post will be CS mileage of 60mpg!!!
Wishful thinking on my part, hope Lyle gets his Volt.
Cheers
-1
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:10 pm)From your lips, to God’s ear.
Be well,
Tagamet
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:12 pm)How about we all meet over at your place?
http://www.happyassranch.com/
-1
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:21 pm)Three couches, no waiting (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:28 pm)Hi Tag, did you decide to lease a Volt? Were you able too?
Cheers
Red HHR
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:34 pm)I prefer a porch swing, myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE&feature=related
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:41 pm)I put a $1000 deposit down on one in Gaithersburg, MD, which got me a shot at one for Spring 2011 (or sooner). I was #19 on the list and they had more than that allotted for the model year. Then they announced the Price. I couldn’t get an answer about whether they’d lease to out-of-state, so eventually I had to bail. It took me 2 calls to cancel. The first time I called to cancel, I just couldn’t get the words to come out. I called back 2 days later and actually canceled it.
I already have a (sporadic) part-time job at the auto auction, but cornered two more jobs, working at county fairs.
Plenty of time until Gen II
Be well,
Tagamet
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:41 pm)I’m surprised you both feel this way. How long was Wagoner CEO…
-12
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:43 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:49 pm)Just like back in Old KY (the State, not the jelly).
Be well,
Tagamet
-5
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:50 pm)Excluding the NiMH pack, then using a bigger Li-Ion and adding the charger, isn’t going to cost over $15,000. A pre-production model would, of course. But 2012 looks to be quite different than 2009.
-12
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:52 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:54 pm)Maybe an inferiority complex? Maybe to get help from Tagamet?
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:56 pm)At the risk of giving you too much encouragement: “You sir are a dipstick.
-5
Aug 12th, 2010 (7:57 pm)I thought you said Volt was an EV. Labels don’t matter anyway. Purchase criteria will be based on the usual factors… price, emissions, gallons.
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:02 pm)[confused and scared, conspiracy guy grabs banjo, launches off of porch swing and sprints past a nearby pen full of squealing pigs . . . threadbare work boots winding up into a full out run for the safety of the woods]
-10
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:04 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:05 pm)Gee, Rashiid, you have a way with words. I was reading Lutz’ statement to a friend and I concluded that Lutz pretty much disliked the guy (like forced into retirement when he did not want to).
-10
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:08 pm)(click to show comment)
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:11 pm)LOL, I intentionally tried to avoid the phrase. +1
Be well,
Tagamet
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:20 pm)I once conducted an inventory, and reluctantly had to recognize that a full 8.7% of my humor arsenal would be missing if not for Ned Beatty’s sacrifice.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:26 pm)You’re growing. I remember when it was 50% (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:32 pm)Thanks for the post! I just made my official option choices this past Tuesday and have been impatiently awaiting some kind of confirmation. Based on this, maybe I have a couple of weeks before I hear from an advisor. My sales rep said that I would hear from GM before he did and would I please let him know when I was contacted.
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:33 pm)Congrats, Joe. Glad to see I’m not the only one getting the call.
Don’t worry, Tagamet. Your Gen II Volt will most likely do something much better than the Gen I Volt does, causing us Gen I people to wish we’d waited!
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:36 pm)“Plenty of time until Gen II
”
Thanks for the update Tag…
Looking forward to the nation wide release.
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:37 pm)My sales rep said something similar about the buyer knowing before the dealer. I certainly don’t mind being “in the loop” on my Volt!
+3
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:38 pm)Or you could sell me your beat up old Volt and get a Gen II
(Gen I has GOT to become a collector’s dream).
Be well,
Tagamet
-10
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:44 pm)(click to show comment)
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:53 pm)That’s true, but I’m not very good at selling things. I’ve had my current car for 11 years this past March, and I don’t really want to sell it even when I get my Volt:
http://homepage.mac.com/macmancubed/.Public/GTP2.jpg
1999 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP in Dark Forest Green Metallic
+6
Aug 12th, 2010 (8:54 pm)As one of the earlier readers and fan of this website I am personally getting very tired of this constant bashing by either the Lief of the Prius by Volt fans as well as bashing the Volt by the Lief and Prius fans. In fact all these vehicles represent giant steps toward giving the middle finger to OPEC. The enemy is the ICE with their 15 to 25 MPG machines. Many of the smart people on this website do not want to see the forest from the trees. I do not own a Prius but when a car can provide 50 to 60 mpg, we ought to pay attention. The Volt’s progenie is not the Tesla but the Prius. Same with the Lief. I happen to feel that the Leaf is premature. If GM gets it right, the future is the Volt. Those of us who feel that we need to transition to electrification should recognize that all these vehicles are important contributors. The Volt’s competitors are not these cars but all the ICE-s out there. I personally will stop reading any negative post about electric cars on this site.
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (9:00 pm)Maybe Lyle can have VOLT #1 or even top 10…. But give him one for free???? LOL I mean the guy is a doctor and just a regular doctor, but a brain doctor!!!!! He can even afford to forgo the Tax rebate!
-7
Aug 12th, 2010 (9:01 pm)The important question is – why is Obama administration putting Republicans in charge of GM ?
Here is something from “Sleeping with the devil” (as written by someone in Amazon).
-11
Aug 12th, 2010 (9:03 pm)(click to show comment)
Aug 12th, 2010 (9:08 pm)Just hand out -1′s and move on. You haven’t seen me bad mouth the Prius nor the LEAF, and I’m not about to start. There’s more than enough room for all the sippers (and abstainers).
Fortunately, with *some* posters you can just see the handle, -1, and never have to READ their post. They are that consistently bad.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (9:28 pm)Shhhh-Weet wheels! Look brandy new. Plenty of legs to get to Gen II or III.
Be well,
Tagamet
Aug 12th, 2010 (9:33 pm)VW: ’500-mile EVs by 2020′
“But with the 3.4 amp-hour cells we’re about to take delivery of, it should have 100kWh and do close to 300 miles on a charge.”
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/251872/
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (9:45 pm)I wonder why they are sticking with the laptop batteries? Of course that could change in the next 10 years…
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (9:47 pm)Wagoner was with GM for over 30 years. I think he became CEO on 2000. I think he just got a raw deal and became the scapegoat for a lot of things out of anyone’s control. He knew more about the car business than Fritz, or Whitacre, and he was well liked within the GM community which is not an easy thing to do. I know the goverment had to chop some heads to make people happy, but I don’t think getting rid of Wagoner was a good idea. JMO
Aug 12th, 2010 (10:07 pm)/work tomorrow. I’ll be late. Be kind to each other.
Be well,
Tagamet
-3
Aug 12th, 2010 (10:10 pm)Not everybody can or even want to plug cars in. Do you want to? Are you plugging in now?
Choice is always good which is why I think there should be a non-plugin version of the Volt.
Toyota tend to plan long-term and price excluding the incentives. This is why I asked John for clarification about the $4k plugin premium. $26k or $29k for a PHV Prius is still in the mass market price.
It doesn’t matter which version of the Prius end up selling more. The end result is the reduction in fuel and emission. What’s important is to make it affordable for Joe. I hope more people can afford the Volt. Design and pricing decisions were made and I don’t agree with them. This is why I don’t support it.
-1
Aug 12th, 2010 (10:25 pm)Lyle and Lutz are both a key factors in the birth of the Chevrolet Volt. Think the board would have stayed the course without this continuing encouragement?
I’ll join the gang in wishing both CEO’s Whitacre and Akerson the best in years ahead.
=D-Volt
+1
Aug 12th, 2010 (10:39 pm)Hey !!!!
I got the same call today ;+}
+2
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:10 pm)My ‘commute’ used to be taking my kids to preschool then driving back home to work. I lived 1/4 mile from the freeway on-ramp, exited after 11+ miles on the freeway, then drove 1.5 miles on surface streets. 85% freeway driving. Several stop signs but zero stoplights. My average speed, as measured by the car computer, was typically 36-37 mph. Got to 38 a couple times. Very few commuters average anywhere near that speed unless they have very long (30+ mile each way) commutes.
That’s hardly a real test, but I measured 6-7 seconds from 62-79. The test below puts Prius at 7.2 seconds to get from 60-79.7 mph under optimal conditions on a traffic-free track. I call that a draw.
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/prius/2010/2010-toyota-prius-full-test-and-video.html
-3
Aug 12th, 2010 (11:20 pm)Tagamet, in the past you have been warmly revered on gm-volt.com by a majority of it’s regular visitors and many newbies.
At one time ( actually for a long time ) you were a peacemaker and a voice of reason here for all. One could count on Tagamet coming in later in the day with words of wisdom and a talent for calming all dissenting opinions and bringing about some peace and tranquility. I was definately one of your biggest “fans”. When you’d be gone for a couple weeks, people would eagerly wait your return and all of us would inquire about your wellbeing and eagerly await the day you’d be back. Sometimes opinions can be quite heated here and you’d always be one with kind words and the ability to see both sides of people’s positions.
Today, you’re here all day long. You argue on and on and on with those you consider “trolls” ( people who don’t gush over Volt consistently. ) Today you name-call, create enmities, argue with those who come in to disrupt. Today you label people and cheerlead Volt – get defensive…. I and many others have tried to help others here not argue with obvious disrupters. When we do, they stay. When they stay they run down the site. Miraculously, they get bored and stay away after a week or so when we do not argue with them or call them sophomoric names. Nowdays you call me one of the disrupters. Wow, and someone told me you were a counselor!
Now I know sometimes folks get prescribed meds for various ailments and this indeed could be your situation. If so, you have all my empathy – my hopes and prayers are that your situation will improve greatly soon, and my admiration for fighting the battle.
Here I am sticking my neck out to get flooded with -1s to just lay it out there Tag. I’m definately not the only one to notice this severe change in your posts and seemingly your personality over the last weeks.
So if I offended, I’m sincerely sorry – to a point. Someone has to speak this out – and if some feel I’m the “bad guy” for stating this – well, so be it.
Sincerely,
James
+1
Aug 13th, 2010 (12:21 am)Seems like you’re over-reacting to his jab about conspiracies. In this regard, you have a point, as does he. But prescription meds? Why not a bad hair day?
-1
Aug 13th, 2010 (1:02 am)I hear ya Don. But 23 posts out of 135?! That has to be some kind of record. And it hasn’t been a day or a week. We all get nutso now and again, right? We all wake up on the wrong side of the Sealy Posture Pedic sometimes. .
This turnaround in his character/behaviour hasn’t been once-in-awhile. It’s been this way and getting worse for some time. I ( and I’m sure many others ) haven’t said anything due to my aforementioned respect for the guy. It has nothing to do with me having thin skin. I take lots worse abuse in here as you know. Even from the site’s originator, and I like him just the same.
Anyway, if we all can keep Mr. T in mind and perhaps gently see what’s going on, it would be good. Hey, perhaps he is just wholly frustrated with the way things at GM are going and this is his way of showing it?
One of my posts didn’t get aired today ( it said it was considered spam! )….But in that post I quoted that guy who said Car and Driver bashed the plug in Prius saying it was floppy sloppy and slow…etc etc. Hey, either that guy just picked up his first Car and Driver magazine yesterday, or he’s been out of the country for a few years. Car and Driver has bashed hybrids, and mainly the most successful one of all time for years. The gearheads in car magazines sell hype and dreams about Ferraris, Lambos and Porsches. Their stock-in-trade is “Mustang vs. Camaro” – “Vette vs Turbo Whizbang!”. It’s been so for decades. It’s what they do, of course they’re gonna be afraid that the smoke and bang era is on the way out. Like Who Killed The Electric Car points out, organisms on Earth who have not adapted to change do not survive. I hope someday we see an Electric Car and Driver mag, but I’m certain it will be after this generation of editors retires.
All this Prius hate, LEAF hate, Tesla hate in here is rediculous, it really is. There is a market niche for each price and capability in the EV world. Today’s realities in government and corporate law look like EVs are going to face a steep uphill battle – in the auto press, in the corporate game and in the hearts and minds of the not-so-savvy re: the impact, depth/ breadth and ramifications of our severe oil addiction.
EVs that survive – or IF EVs survive, and I believe it’s inevitable….All make a dent in improving today’s dire conditions because of oil. The guys out here that really make me shake my head are the ones who say, “Volt is just taking too long and won’t be sold in my area so I’ve decided to buy a Cadillac CTS, Mercury Navigator or Hybrid Escalade”. !!!! Those guys make me hurl. But they just don’t get it either. And they have subscriptions to Car and Driver.
RECHARGE!
James
-3
Aug 13th, 2010 (4:20 am)Obama Motor’s Quote Kill’s Whitacre?
Were they right on Rush’s show Thursday that one snide remark caused the board to can his ass, or a phone call from Obama to, “Kick Whit’s Ass Down The Street?”
If so, that is starting too be a trend with this administration. I guess it really is, “OBAMA MOTORS!”
+4
Aug 13th, 2010 (6:02 am)Hi James,
. I do try to steer comments away from politics, because those rarely advance the Volt discussion and aren’t going to change hearts either way.
Just jotting off a quick note before work this morning. I *am* a bit confused, but the confusion is about your post re my posts.
To my knowledge I’ve never hammered the Prius (my daughter’s saved her life). The LEAF will only help move electrification further along. I do post a *lot* when I’m by the computer, but if that’s a problem, I can easily dial that back. I consistently request that people don’t feed the trolls and there are times that NOT replying to their drivel does annoy me – but I still won’t reward them for posting. A possible source of confusion is the fact that 70% of the time I’m making a joke (like the conspiracy post) but those are flagged with a (g), LOL, or
Bottom line is that if there are others that agree that you are correct in your impressions, I’d need to work on changing my posts or just take a break for a month of so.
If anyone feels the same (or even similarly OR has other concerns) they can just post here or email me at lgeguzisATSIGNcomcast.net, ASAP.
A bit on the personal side, but for you, James (g), the meds I take for cancer do have side effects, but the treatments effect moods more than the med side effects themselves. Again, the best judge of that would be *outside* myself, so I welcome more feedback.
I love the site and would never knowingly diminish it.
Be well and God Bless,
Tagamet
-2
Aug 13th, 2010 (6:07 am)#120 LazP Said:
As one of the earlier readers and fan of this website I am personally getting very tired of this constant bashing by either the Lief of the Prius by Volt fans
So when did the name change to GM-EV happen?
+3
Aug 13th, 2010 (6:46 am)Just consider it a bad cat day!!!!
GO EV!!!!
Aug 13th, 2010 (7:05 am)Off topic, but I got the same call last night. Very cool
+7
Aug 13th, 2010 (8:04 am)James, I have to side with both DonC & Tagamet here. I’m more of a “techno-weenie” than a “people person” like Tag, as are several other regular posters here. And although I’ve read most of the threads/posts here for >3 yrs, I generally only comment if I really believe I can contribute something of value technically. But I’ve made quite a few exceptions to that. This is one of them.
Tag is an excellent listener. In fact, his profession itself involves careful listening as well as (and prior to) counseling others. That valued ability carries over into this blog very effectively —and I believe we would all do well to heed his generally positive, sometimes humorous, always helpful advice …and that’s my suggestion to you as well.
As to the number of his posts, of the 23 posts by Tag (your count), I counted a total of ~34 lines of text or roughly 1 1/2 lines per post. Short, succinct, easy to read and right to the point. (BTW your single post #136 has nearly the same number of lines of text as all 23 of Tag’s posts combined —it borders on a lecture, as do many of your posts.) I honestly often skip to the last paragraph of your post …and read it all only if it appears the subject would be worthy of my time. My advice to you would be to try to write a bit more succinctly —most people here would appreciate it!
And, please, back off of your criticisms of others posting here!
-2
Aug 13th, 2010 (8:46 am)Should I be short, and succint with insults and arguments to obvious interlopers? Would that benefit the site? Does it when Tag does so? Should I just sit here all day then ( and all night ), and throughout the hours glued to my computer – insert rips to the Prius, the Leaf , Tesla and everything else that is not a Volt? Should I call names and treat the site like a message board? I agree with you Tag used to be mostly positive, helpful and a giver of mostly good advice. Used to. Have you been paying attention. Have you?
Is that what you suggest for me to improve my posting here? Should I strive to be honest and a realist – sharing my opinions or just keep them to myself and learn to be a techno weenie?
-3
Aug 13th, 2010 (9:33 am)3:50 to 4:00 is 10 seconds. The MPH started to increase at 3:50 so he must have started a second prior to it.
Electric motor’s torque drop off at those speed so the power delivery is limited. This is why the gas engine with mechanical direct output would enhance the acceleration. The price for not using gas is the the acceleration performance degradation. I am not bashing the Volt, it is the nature of Series hybrids.
+3
Aug 13th, 2010 (9:37 am)Sorry James, I can’t justify the time to continue an extended dialog. So let me just say I value your opinions and hope you keep offering them, just a bit more succinctly and trying to avoid “insults” as you say. Maybe splitting posts up would make sense —e.g., post comments regarding Akerson’s selection and Lyle’s spelling errors separately. And yes, I’ve been paying attention. In fact I re-read all (23?) of Tag’s posts on this thread and only note ONE (#45) that might be construed a bit offensive when Tag says in a wryly humorous way, “They get lonely living in their mom’s basement” as a possible reason trolls post here. For your other many questions, James, figure them out for yourself and/or perhaps find a “people person” to help.
-2
Aug 13th, 2010 (9:48 am)Simply stating factual information (that does not favor the Volt) here would get flooded with -1s. There is no objective views and people seem to have closed minds. If you are not one of them, please speak out.
Someone here compared this site with religion. If it is true, there must be a bunch of followers that would rate -1s if you bad mouth their “GOD”. If their “GOD” label someone as troll, their view will instantly change despite the evidences presented.
This is a car site and the Volt has a lot of technology packed in it. Science should dominate over faith.
-4
Aug 13th, 2010 (9:52 am)There were prior personal attacks as well and I gave warnings multiple times. I could not ignore the third strike so I fired back.
+1
Aug 13th, 2010 (12:15 pm)Ahhh nothing but more BS…
You’ll have to explain to me how 100kW of peak power (the absolute maximum power electric + IC permitted by the PHEV Prius, according to Tanaka and Uchiyamada see below) is going to out accelerate a system with 20% more. GM has said throughout that 111kW rating of the Volt’s traction motor is the industry standard “continuous” rating with a “peak” power rating of 120kW.
Yes, you can control the inverter duty cycle “ramp rate” to manage current from the HVSS more efficiently (ie ECON mode) but in “SPORT” mode, the inverter uses a most aggressive power schedule to the motor and the Volt with go 0-60 in ~8 seconds.
I said it before and I’ll say it again
There is no high performance metric where the PHEV Prius will best the Volt.
Let the drag races begin!
WopOnTour
-1
Aug 13th, 2010 (12:54 pm)I’m surprised there’s been virtually no debate about why Whitacre got the boot. I hope it’s a coincidence it happened the day after Whitacre said the following:
“We don’t like this label ‘Obama Motors.’ We don’t like this label of government ownership. People in GM are embarrassed by that. You lose your reputation. It’s hard to get it back.”
Pretty sad day if he got fired for saying that.
Aug 13th, 2010 (3:17 pm)I am sure you are familiar with the power curves. This is Tesla’s electric motor power curve.
http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/torquegraph_v2.gif
If the Volt’s curve looks similar, the power would peak at around 40 MPH. The power would start to drop fast beyond 55 MPH. At top speed, Volt would have about half of it’s peak. For the gas engine, the peak power is near the redline, quite opposite.
When both gas and electric are properly combined (as E-CVT does), you get consistent power output. Prius takes advantage of this synergistic nature and put both drivetrains to work together as one ultimate powertrain (HSD). There is no free piggy-back ride for the gas engine. It’ll have to work as hard as the electric motor when it is called for duty.
Volt is also about 30% heavier than Prius. All of this contributed to why Prius is 3 seconds faster at high speed. Volt will surely be faster at lower speed but that’s off-topic.
Now, how is this relate to PHV Prius? A side benefit of blending power from the gas engine is the consistency of EV miles. Gas engine will cover extreme power demands so there is no extreme swings in the EV range. There won’t be a need for mountain mode (for example) as a hack. Power blending will be automatic for all driving situations.
Both the Volt and PHV Prius share the same goal, to reduce fuel consumption but not to eliminate it. Nissan Leaf eliminates it. Volt may have more potential with EV miles but I think it pays a huge price (cost and highway performance) for it. If you can afford it and drive locally mostly, go for it by all means.
The notion that the more EV miles the better is also misguided. The way I see things, the more EV miles, the more the compromise. Compromise comes in the form of Cost, Space or Range. The key is to find the balance.
Aug 13th, 2010 (5:47 pm)Certainly I am, and this is where you are astray.
The Volt’s motor curves look nothing like the Tesla (other than the general “shape”) Also the Tesla does not use a reduction drive (anymore, they couldn’t make it work in Ver-1 and gave up on it)
But the Volt will and does.Trust me it’s NOT a bad thing.
Both the Volt and PHEV Prius have driver selectable power and economy modes that set the shape of the acceleration profile. The Volt’s just happens to be more agressive, with more peak power available + TQ multiplication.
I have VERY detailed data on the PHEV Pris (directly provided by Toyota and have full Toyota TIS access as well) and “inside” data on the Volt and I assure you – performance wise, NOTHING is lost on the Volt in comparison.
So do me a favor and stop dropping bs-bombs until both cars can be compared fairly side-by-side and we/you/everyone can make our own assessments at that time.
Until then fell free to “correct” anyone you wish that makes comments on the Prius here.
FYI I have been “lurking” on Priuschat for a great many years so I’ve witnessed goofs like John1701 just “reposting” other peoples texts over here and the primary reason why I have ZERO respect. You on the otherhand appear to be the genuine article in helping people “over there” and I can respect that but I wont tolerate MIS-infrmation here EITHER. (which you both have been continually spreading)
Case in point- “50% of drivers are covered by the PHEV 23.6km (14 miles) of EV range”
FYI that was data provided by a JAPANESE research study NOT American (which I’ll assume you are)
Again, I will respect “opinions” but NOT techical inaccuracy with respect to the Volt or a techncial comparison against ANY other car (including the PHEV Prius) on THIS forum. (What you do and say over there I don’t give a flying @$^@* about)
Regards
WopOnTour
Aug 13th, 2010 (5:57 pm)More technical inaccuracy BS
The Volt DOES NOT “weigh 30% more” than the PHEV Prius! LOL
Look at the chart above
The PHEV Prius weighs 1490kg/3285lbs
TRUST me the Volt DOES NOT weigh 4270lbs!!!
Please quit this BS
WOT
Aug 13th, 2010 (7:19 pm)Mixing up references to the plug & non-plug model is a very, very common problem here.
The post which mentioned the weight was pointing out the non-plug model, which is indeed that much of a difference. 3,042 plus 30% is 3,954. The plug model followed the comment, after the point had already been made.
We’ll just assume the reply to it was an error and let it serve as a reminder that this kind of mix up happens far more often than most realize.
Aug 13th, 2010 (8:58 pm)Tesla does use reduction gears. 14k RPM is too fast for the wheels. I think you are referring to the two speed transmission they were attempting to do at first but failed and they went back to a single gear.
You seem to be saying that the Volt will have multi-gear transmission. The Volt in the video did not have multi-gear transmission and suffered in highway acceleration demo. It was supposed to be very close to production too. Either you or the guy in the video is spreading misinformation. I am just the messenger.
I would not be surprised if GM is working on multi-gear transmission. The Volt has a planetary gear-set and clutches. It is said to be using some type of 2-mode hybrid setup. Isn’t it kind of late to try to squeeze a complex multi-gear 2-mode technology (ahem, software tweak)?
Regarding the 14 miles commute, you are right that it is based on Japanese data as provided on Toyota’s site. For the US, it is not much longer though. 20 miles would cover 51% of our commutes. 10 miles covers 29% so 14 miles should cover about 40% of our commutes.
http://www.bts.gov/publications/omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/html/figure_02.html
Notice the question in the survey. These miles are purely from Home to Work. Daily chore trips are much shorter than that.
BTW, anybody can spend $5 and get access to TIS. You seem to be expressing smug due to it.
+1
Aug 16th, 2010 (1:57 pm)I don’t know about this new guy. He has entirely the wrong tie color. From the Reuters article
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6744B120100805 :
“something as simple as wearing a red tie could give a more confident business presentation.”
Lutz may have been onto something with the pink tie. I’m not sure if the study looked at pink/red shades or just red.
/trying to make decisions based on as shallow reasons as possible