Earlier this week we took an informal survey of GM-Volt readers experiences attempting to purchase Volts from dealers in the early launch markets. There were 1312 respondents when the poll was closed,and 950 or 72% of readers hadn’t inquired at a dealership yet, but 362, or 28%, had.
Of those 362, 60% were told by the dealer they would have to pay a mark-up over MSRP. The largest group among those were those told they would have to pay at least $10,000 over MSRP, representing 37% of that group.
Our poll was picked up by the New York Times who also interviewed some dealers to research the story.
The Times considered our poll “hardly rigorous and certainly not certifiable,” (I’ll buy that) but determined it indicated “that a significant sample encountered premiums in excess of $10,000, though most respondents who claimed to have made inquiries were quoted M.S.R.P.”
Volt spokesperson Rob Peterson was asked for comment.
“The dealers are independent, for better and, in very rare cases, for worse,” he said. “There are some who have moved in the opposite direction of our request. In response, what we’ve done is to urge customers who have contacted us about pricing discrepancies to shop around, because there are dealerships in their area that are honoring M.S.R.P.”
GM sent a strong message to dealers to do the right thing and sell the Volt at MSRP. The invoice price is $1800 lower so there is profit built in.
Through an interview with a California dealership the Times found out another new piece of information. GM had banned out-of-state sales.
“For a year now, we’ve had people contacting us from out of state, trying to make a purchase, but G.M. told us in-state-driver sales only,” Paul Galassi, Internet manager for Novato Chevrolet, north of San Francisco told the Times. “It’s sad, honestly, because as a dealership you hate to turn anybody away.”
Considering that early adopters are spread across the nation and the Volt will only go on sale in seven states, attempts to purchase a Volt out-of-state is likely to be robust.
Source (New York Times)
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:19 am)“For a year now, we’ve had people contacting us from out of state, trying to make a purchase, but G.M. told us in-state-driver sales only,” Paul Galassi, Internet manager for Novato Chevrolet, north of San Francisco told the Times. “It’s sad, honestly, because as a dealership you hate to turn anybody away.”
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:22 am)So I guess GM does not have nationwide service in place, and has a serious concern about it as much as I do……
Is GM trying to make us all angry????
And what about all the “out of state” people that placed deposits already?
Maybe Lyle needs to get verification of this from GM before we all go wild here…..
+54
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:25 am)How can GM ban out of state sales if the dealers are truly independent retailers? If GM can’t force the dealers to sell at MSRP, how can they force them to only sell to in-state buyers?
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:26 am)I am out of state and have an order number already. That is BS
+4
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:31 am)“GM sent a strong message to dealers to do the right thing and sell the Volt at MSRP. The invoice price is $1800 lower so there is profit built in.”
Well, there you go. The invoice price actually is under $40K, and the $41K price that everyone is so horrified about is simply built in so that the dealers can make a decent profit.
It’s sad to see dealers marking these up beyond MSRP. The added customer traffic alone will likely boost sales considerably.
+7
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:33 am)PS to my post #1: I saw this statement several days ago & since I live in a state not yet having approved Volt dealers (FL), before I wasted any time I checked on it. Three different approved dealers (in CA, CT & VA) told me GM has NOT restricted them to either out-of-state sales or leases. In fact, I’ve called the Volt toll-free purchase assist line twice and 2 different people told me the same.
/Could it be that GM is simply slow to notify their approved dealers and cust svc staff? I don’t think so, because the 2nd person I talked to at the GM assist line added that ALL dealers who want to eventually sell Volts throughout the US MUST have completed all service & sales training required to do so BY THE END OF THIS SUMMER.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:35 am)When DO the other 43 states get their Volts anyway? Maybe I missed it on here. Are all states eligible in 2012? Make me happy to be in MI….
What if a private citizen purchases a Volt (say in MI) and sells it to someone out of state? GM can’t ban that. Going to be an interesting 12 months.
My guess is that GM wants these initial vehicles to be in relatively close proximity to authorized dealerships in the event they need do perform any unexpected repairs. Can major software revisions be performed via OnStar?
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:38 am)Ordering a completely new kind of car two states away ( California ) didn’t make sense to me. The prospect of available servicing only available 650-750 miles away just wouldn’t work.There have been semi-official announcements on this site recently that GM would be training service techs in certain non-Volt markets. Evidently, with today’s news this is one more untruth from GM in a string that’s getting longer and longer.
If Volt were offered in Washington State I would have my Prius up for sale today. The mention in an article here recently that there was a possibility I could have my Volt serviced in Seattle if purchased in California had me pondering finding a dealer who’d actually sell one for MSRP. The wife and I had a couple serious talks about it and I got the green light! It looks as if today’s announcement quashes any chance I had at owning a “gen 1″ Volt.
RECHARGE!
James
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:40 am)Well, I DID have an out of state order (Ohio) but canceled it recently when my local dealer got allocation. Maybe that was premature, but I’m going to (for now) continue to trust the word of my dealer that it will be at MSRP.
+7
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:47 am)Who killed the electric car, Part II? Greedy dealerships packing on a $10,000 markup over MSRP. And GM, for not mandating MSRP only. I REFUSE to purchase a VOLT with a markup. Thus, I’ve already put my $99 down on a Leaf.
+9
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:47 am)Fortunately, “DC” includes suburban areas of Maryland and Northern Virginia.
On the gouging survey, it seems odd that the biggest wad of overcharging reports was in the highest over-charge category. Intuitively, you’d expect that there’d be statistical decrease the farther you got from the “norm” — the large numbers reporting MSRP bids. How many of those $10K+ votes were from trolls and haters?
FWIW, the two dealers I talked to are both planning to charge MSRP.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:50 am)I think GM is just being extremely cautious so where the Volt sells is in close proximity to where it can be serviced quickly. Think about it they have to C.T.A (cover their a…) so what might go wrong can be handled relatively quickly. They don’t need any bad PR on this high-tech vehicle at this point in their game-changing strategy.
+5
Aug 6th, 2010 (6:50 am)There has been conflicting data online recently that Volt has gained supremecy in Google searches over LEAF and vice versa since GM’s price announcements.
We’ve all seen the newspaper articles and major media buzz this last week and it’s really encouraging for anyone who is a fan of electric or serial hybrid ( EREV ) plug in vehicles.
Case in point: At a barbeque over at a relative’s home, a rousing conversation erupted re: LEAF, iMiEV and Volt. It was great! Who knew some of these folks had ever even heard of an iMiEV let alone knew anything about it?! Soon everyone was offering opinions, which format was best…what prospects each had to succeed, and who would pay what for what.
I walked away feeling encouraged, as it was a fantastic opportunity to educate some, and feel the pain and disgust everyone was feeling regarding the Gulf disaster, and today’s seeming attempts by everyone from the Coast Guard, EPA Chief and Louisiana locals in saying the problem is over. I honesty think we are one large negative oil story away from literally hordes of people flocking to dealers who are backed by companies actually willing to sell an EV, traditional plug in hybrid or EREV in their area for an honest price!
RECHARGE!
James
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:03 am)As with anything this new there is going to be some uncertanty and confusion. It is partly our duty to prevent FUD from taking over or even to tarnish the image of the Volt.
Anything greater than $2K over MSRP is questionable, but I’m not so sure about calling this “the majority”. The above numbers are 166 for MSRP or less than $2K over and 196 more than this. But this is not the number of dealers but the number of respondents. If I go to a list of 5 dealers and the first 2 say over MSRP do I keep going? If I get to the 5th one and find a promise of MSRP I will go with that one. But what will I report? And what if I get discouraged and don’t continue looking?
I’m not sure of the overall situation, but I choose to believe that the Volt deserves to be handled well by all involved.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:03 am)Definitely. This is second hand information at best. Well, at least publishing this article with that headline should force a statement out of GM about it.
Oooooh, good info, thanks.
I also have an order placed out of state and will be slavishly following this story!
+4
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:04 am)Honestly if you really want to buy a Volt out of state, the easy answer lies in a PO Box.
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:10 am)My guess is that GM just asked the dealers to sell in state only, just like they asked them to sell at MSRP. I understand why GM want this. They need to keep the cars in certain market areas to evaluate them under the conditions in that state. They cannot stop someone from selling to anyone. Only suggest, much like M Suggested R P.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:20 am)If there was an ability to put restrictions on dealers (either by MSRP or geograhy) you would think that it would have to be allowed for in the dealership agreement. This is a unique car. Without reviewing the contract, I’d have to say I’d be a little surprised if this was provided for in the dealership agreement. For myself, I prefer to wait until there is a local dealer who is trained to service this car. For others who are technologically more educated, they may feel comfortable jumping in now. Go Nasaman! You deserve it.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:23 am)By not allowing out of state sales GM has basically given its dealers carte blanche authority to engage in price gouging.
Good one guys.
+4
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:27 am)One wonders if gm is getting some flack from dealers in loser states, possibly through their federal reps. If I’m a dealer in Ohio, I am imagining that my customers are going over the border to Michigan. Not much love lost between Ohio and Michigan. Even worse, I am imagining that the Michigan dealer who took “my” Ohio customer is now getting an extra $10K over MSRP, while I get nothing.
If I’m the Ohio dealer, I’m still angry about the bailout that gave billions of dollars to Michigan and Detroit and none to me, and I know gm is still “government motors”, and I’m calling my congressman to complain about it.
Meanwhile, if I picture myself as a loyal Michigan dealer, I’ve had some tough times recently, so if somebody from someplace is willing to pay an extra $10K, I’m taking it while I can, because I deserve it.
Of course, the above is all fantasy, but one wonders if it may have been the case, some of the time, and one wonders if the ever changing responses from gm, who at best has limited control over dealers, does not reflect some political pressure as well as frustrations from the dealers in the loser states.
It seems to me that gm has not had a sales plan for Volt that was carefully thought through, so now they are paying the price in some frustration and anger from some of the customers and some of the dealers. But, others are very happy
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:31 am)Franchises are for a geographic area. I see the ban on out of state sales as enforcing the letter of the agreement.
-4
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:40 am)I hope they do restrict sales to in-state…
So i can buy one in NJ for 41K + Dealer Markup & sell it on ebay for 60K. 300 million people in this country….. someone is rich enough & dumb enough to buy one.
+9
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:50 am)There are probably 100,000 sales in Canada and Mexico waiting for a shot at MSRP. Keep making T batteries and cranking out Volts.
=D-Volt
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:58 am)By not allowing out of state sales, demand at each dealer is reduced due to a smaller customer base. If I was a dealer and someone from out of state wanted to buy a car (any car) from me, I’d be more prone to jack up the price, knowing that I wouldn’t be getting any follow-on service business from the sale.
What bothers me, however, is the 72% who haven’t inquired with a dealer. Is it that these folks live in un-allocated areas, the $41K turned them off completely, or that they really weren’t very interested in the Volt in the first place. Imagine if every member of Lyle’s “wish list” made an inquiry!
Aug 6th, 2010 (7:59 am)Well, well, well, it appears there is a discrepancy in policies. GM can BAN out of state sales but cannot control prices????? FLUKE is correct.
Can GM even legally stop anyone from buying a car if they qualify financially? Might be an interesting court challenge.
Dealer price gouging apparently is “legal” and probably short lasting.. but the goodwill cost to any dealer will be longer.
If GM is setting price that is selling cars then they need to build to the demand. If they decide not to I as a customer will probably decide there are better deals elsewhere.
The VOLT is a great car in trying to go off OIL and drive for fewer dollars. BUT where is the win when you paid such a high price (price gouge with no additional value) when other much better economical options are available created by artificially high price. At some point the market does dictate what is the best value.
I prefer an electric car like the VOLT but……
+8
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:02 am)Like Toyota did with Prius.
Do you have any idea how much I’ve had to endure that claim… knowing GM wouldn’t actually follow that same approach? Sure, it was a good excuse for the 10,000 production limitation. But it did absolutely nothing to address distribution or price.
What Toyota did for the first 1.5 years was force the dealers to serve as a delivery provider rather than a regular sales broker. Toyota provided an online order system which you used to request your Prius. It guaranteed a specific vehicle would be delivered specifically for you with a price of MSRP. Markups were not allowed, period.
It turned out to be an excellent way of handling demand that grossly exceeded supply. Consumers were left confident that delivery of their vehicle would occur as promised at the price agreed upon, making the 6-month wait much easier.
The chaos unfolding with Volt already makes you wonder how this is all going to play out.
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:04 am)Dude — Franchise agreements only cover distance between stores/dealers. Not who you can sell to.
Agreements & Distance can vary greatly by population distribution. If you have 500,000 people in a 100 sq mile area they may allow 3 or 4 different dealers in an area. If there are only 10,000 people in 100 sq miles they will only allow one. But they can sell to a guy from any state if they want…
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:05 am)Dont kid yourself your competing with Federal, state, competing manufactures and the rich for the car.
Its going to take longer than you think, even if you are #3 on someones list.
Just watch and see how this plays.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:08 am)I have a theory why they want to ban all out of state sales, it’s simple really. GM won’t admit it, rather deny the fact, they like the Dealers to gouge th public, it was the same way with the Camaro, but never to the point of $20k worth.
If ANYBODY is stupid enough to purchase a Volt for the $20k markup, just think of what you could of done with that money, seriously, that’s anothe 1/2 of a CHEVY VOLT! Just wait for another year, wheen GM decides to ramp up production.
+14
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:14 am)We should buy the car directly from GM over the web, and GM pays the dealerships $1800 to handle the transfer, that would eliminate the price Gouging, and make the whole process much easier.
Instead we have to go through an outdated and unnecessary dealer system.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:15 am)SMART did it too. If the Customer decided not to pick it up, the car became an Orphan and for the people not willing to wait, those Orphans sold for big $$$$
+4
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:16 am)I did not know that the value of a car is its MSRP! I thought the value of the car was what purchasers were willing to pay for it. If I were a dealer, our friends here not withstanding, I would start with the highest possible price and keep lowering the price until somebody is willing to pay that price. Isn’t his way one tries to sell his own home? If the dealer thinks this is bad business practice than obviously he won’t do this. Who says that early adapters have some special rights. GM decided on starting with a potential big shortage to create IPOD type buzz. If a dealer want charge $20K over list price more power to him if somebody is willing to buy the high priced car. When GM starts to match production with demand this ridiculous price differential will disappear. I repeat my earlier post: Dealers ought to auction their cars for the highest bid. Vanity is expensive.
+15
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:16 am)I have money on a Nissan Leaf and I have a word of mouth dealer reservation in Phx for a Volt. I also made an attempt to buy/ order from a dealer in California. That deal has fallen thru for reasons I will not discuss, and has left a bad taste in my mouth.
The bottom line numbers are that the Volt will have a 51K$ price tag and the Leaf will have a 29K bottom line price tag. Is the Volt really worth a 13K premium??
I have respect for Nissan’s ordering policy. It is professional. It’s all done on the internet and you can get a response from the company thru live chat. My reservation number is from Nissan not a dealer. When we are allowed to go out and place an order next month I plan to go to dealers and find out if they will sell at MSRP. If not I will move on to the next dealer.
I’ve said this before: I think the Volt is an engineering masterpiece. It is a Cadillac and the Leaf is not. GM has priced it as such and, that’s OK in my book. In fact I suggested they price it that way in the forum. (They should have put a Cadillac body on it too.)
I want it to succeed and I have total respect for all the engineers at GM.
I just think that Nissan’s way of doing business is more professional!!
+4
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:18 am)Looks like GM didn’t shut down all the right dealerships. Hopefully they are keeping track of who is gouging the customer in the event that a future dealership kill-off is required again.
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:20 am)You are right.. I waited 5 months for a Prius. Paid the MSRP. But it was interesting that if I wanted a specific color or options the wait was gong to be longer. … Could it be the dealer was making more bucks by ordering cars with more options and making them available to the customer list??? The “car I ordered” would have been an extra 2 month wait. :=}
Maybe that should be the real way to get more dealer profit ??? At least there was value from the product for the higher dollars.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:23 am)That would be in interesting approach… Happy customers buy more cars….
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:27 am)Please keep us posted on your adventure. I’ve been waiting for two days to hear back from my out-of-state dealership re leasing. I’ll be following up today on that.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:37 am)Yes, Lyle’s surveys need to be ‘big picture’. Those of us sitting here in Volt ‘no man’s land’ probably find we would like to give a different response than the few available. Here in FL, I am not interested in going to an out of state dealer. I did, however, follow GM’s suggestion and contact my local dealer. I said that I wanted to be placed on their Volt list and also stated that I would not be interested in paying more than MSRP. I believe if you are in my situation, forced/willing to wait until Volts are locally available to you, you will get MSRP. But the dealers who are a year away from seeing their first Volt probably haven’t even yet debated the markup question. So I certainly haven’t pressed them on the issue. So where do Lyle’s survey options leave me? It may look like I am in the apathy category, but I certainly am not.
Lyle, as you create surveys, put in options that consider those of us in the forced to wait category (that would be the MAJORITY). The surveys will be a whole lot more meaningful.
+6
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:40 am)I have 2 orders from out of state. 1 already in the system. The other I am waiting for his deposit check and order form (to confirm color and options).
I will be meeting with General Manager today to confirm this. It’s news to me.
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:46 am)=============================
I don’t know about that, nasaman.
In the last six weeks, I have spoken to my local dealer three times, the last time being last week. At that time he told me he has no information about service requirements or training, or when he will be able to order and sell Volts. So how can a rep say that all dealerships must be set up now, if they do not plan to have units for sale for at least another year???
I think maybe they meant for the dealers in the initial seven sales areas. That would make more sense.
But how much of what GM has said and done in the last few weeks has made sense???
JMHO
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:49 am)*Sorry, everyone…. I just noticed my statement in the 1st paragraph could be misunderstood. To clarify, delete “to” & add “from making” where shown. And yes, Tag, I’ll keep all on this blog posted as to my outcome.
+4
Aug 6th, 2010 (8:50 am)I am avoiding this feeding frenzy. I want a Volt, but, not with a bunch of hassle.
I just don’t buy year 1 cars or version 1.0 software anymore. It’s not worth the headaches.
+6
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:02 am)called the volt hotline…talked with a manager there. GM has NOT restricted sales to out of state-ers. This is a false rumor and I don’t know why CA is so f-ed up in this whole mess. The east coast is much more civil. Had a con call this morning with my dealership and the general manager. He said he will sell me the volt even though I’m not in CT. No problem. Once they take delivery from GM, the Volt is the dealer’s not GM’s. They can sell to whomever.
The manager on the phone from GM was shocked and this question has come up before. There is NO RESTRICTIONS…PERIOD! Call the hotline and ask for yourself!
+5
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:05 am)You’re right, seth!!! There are NO restrictions! And the GM hotline is 1-888-VOLT-4-YOU (1-888-865-8496) for anyone to check for themselves.
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:08 am)This Times report is just “Rumors and Propaganda”. The dealer involved just hopes this will somehow make a few more Volts available, so he can pick them up from other dealers and sell them for some big bucks profit. California dealers will probably be the largest “interstate purchasers” of Volts.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:08 am)Off topic, but this is great news:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/21258946#video=21271229
Toyota should pay big time for this.
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:10 am)I think we’re starting to see more wild rumors and speculation than actual facts now.
-15
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:26 am)(click to show comment)
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:28 am)You virtually took the words right out of my brain!
If the “S” in “MSRP” means “suggested”… then maybe GM should just enforce selling them at MRP … where the “M” stands for MANDATORY.
-12
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:32 am)(click to show comment)
+5
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:33 am)Where are there less parts? The Volt has everything the Cruze does plus an electric drive train.
Pushing more FUD about Volt following EV1 is no help either.
+5
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:34 am)(Somewhat OT but of interest): Chelsea Sexton (a very “well-plugged-in” plug-in expert) just made the following comments on leasing vs purchasing the Leaf or Volt at Facebook… “I’m not normally a proponent of leasing except for certain situations, but this might be one of them if you can deal with the mileage limit. The payment is really low for that car (Volt), but there are improvements coming on Gen II for both Leaf and Volt (and so many other plug-ins coming in general) that leasing either one wouldn’t be a bad idea.
“…in the next few years, I don’t think the improvements will come so much in battery tech as variety and other features. Leaf is talking about going to 6.6kW charging for Gen II, for example, which won’t be crucial for everyone, but …the early adopters will prefer it as it’s what they’re used to from the last generation of EVs, and it’ll double charging speed on a standard household circuit. Volt will be ATPZEV (important for the CARB states and HOV lane access), likely ethanol enabled, and get an improved user interface. And so on…and we’ll no doubt see more announced models in the next few years, as well as the availability of Focus and Fiat EVs, and more. Leasing won’t make sense for everyone, but as long as it comes with the ability to purchase at the end (unlike the last EV generation), it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand.”
Thanks, Chels!
+11
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:36 am)I don’t see what the big deal is. If a dealer wants to charge anything over MSRP fine by me. They are in business to make a profit and if you don’t like how they do business then don’t shop at that dealer. Last I checked this is still a free country and you have the choice where and who you do business with.
Don’t worry though because the mark up will only last so long because once supply catches up to demand the price will drop.
-6
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:37 am)Price gouging — a question of fairness.
It is not fair for a seller to increase the price of an item
just because it is in short supply. price (should)=cost+reasonable profit.
I don’t like it. Why should the gouger profit? That extra is coming out of my pocket — I won’t deal with it. All you have to do is wait, and it tips their hand — they can not be trusted.
A local gas station raised its prices right after 9/11 — its out of business.
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:43 am)Just a couple of comments:
1) I never believed the poll number for 10K + over MSRP
2) If I am a dealer, and take a longer time to sell my volts because of a high markup, doesn’t that affect my allocation?
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:44 am)Wouldn’t surprise me in the least!
Perhaps it’s just another black eye for the Grey Lady?
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:50 am)#44 – nasaman says: “You’re right, seth!!! There are NO restrictions! ”
The only restriction is in the price, as far as I can see, if the dealer is gouging the customer. Its MSRP or no sale as far as I am concerned (when a Volt is available in my area).
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:01 am)Usually I agree with what you post, George, but, I gotta go ahead and disagree on this one.
The weight of the ICE is probably less than the equivalent batteries to get a 340 mile range. This is the whole point of the Volt design. Get decent range without having gobs of battery. The AER shouldn’t be characterized as ‘short’ since 80% of the US commuters out there drive less than that.
I think there will be a BEV version of Volt (or one of her siblings) very soon. GM doesn’t have an offering currently to directly compete with Focus and LEAF.
Plus, ya called me a ‘punk’ yesterday! j/k.
+12
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:04 am)You people need to understand what gouging is versus good old fashioned capitalism.
An example of GOUGING is when only one person/store has drinking water. And he has plenty of drinking water (a whole warehouse full), more than what is needed. But no one else has it, so he sells it for $20/gallon because people need to drink safe water or they will die. And the people pay them because they don’t want to die.
Capitalism is; I have this cool technology. It is fun, clever and it will save some oil from being used. There are only going to be about 10 available for my dealership and 100 people want one. Well let’s see, these 10 people are willing to pay me $10K – $20K more than these other 90 people. I will sell to the people willing to pay. The other 90 people will not be harmed, they will not die. Their feelings are hurt because they did not get what they wanted. ahhhhhh.
I am not offended that I cannot get the VOLT now and somebody else can. I will wait until the price comes down and the performance gets even better.
In the mean time, I ride my bike to work 7 miles each way from mid-April to mid-November. I drive my Honda FIT when needed and most likely have a carbon foot print smaller than many of the people crying foul in this room.
Instead of complaining, get a good $700 bike and a nice $200 trailer to attach. That way you can go to stores and haul stuff just as well as you could with a VOLT.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:09 am)On one hand, dealers wants to profits from a rare occasion in the last 2 years where they stroggled. Who can really blamed them. On the other hand too much of it and it will quickly become a nightmare.
Early addapters of this technology can quickly fireback with bad press, they may be ready to pay a bit more the MSRP but if the car performe just a little bit under their expectations it will be PR fight for GM.
As for us up North in Canada, well we have to wait another 9 month
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:11 am)Or…. more likely, the dealers are just greedy, short sighted bastards. Much more believable.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:14 am)One could assume this dealer is taking a $17,500 markup? Can you add some details? TIA.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:17 am)The GM-Volt survey was seriously flawed. Who knows how many people there are out there that read these blogs out of boredom and just click the last choice to mess with the rest of us.
A real survey would be to contact at least 100 dealers from all the states selling to get their prices. Then you could do all kinds of analysis such as which states charge the least/most etc. If you want the truth you’ve got to look at the horse’s mouth.
If Lyle wants to do this, I would cover the San Diego/LA area for him. My dealer in SD is charging MSRP and the 1 other I contacted said he was too. I am sure other people would volunteer to collect data so the survey could be done properly. The idea would be to try and account for about 1000 of the initial sales, i.e. 10% of the initial rollout. That’s the type of data the Wall Street Journal would take notice of.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:18 am)If anyone resides in Virginia, Ourisman Rockmont Chevrolet in Alexandria will sell Volts at the sticker price. They will not sell you one if you reside from out of state. Of all the GM dealers in the country, they claim to be the only dealer who’s selling at the MSRP….if you can believe that.
http://www.rockvillechevrolet.com/?referrer=www.chevydealer.com&cs:pro=cgt2&cs:e=g&cs:rv=pXzLMclV9zV8pqJbfQvDvMh8nskMY2tyTg50jQd51JJJLf4r2vMq
Sales: (877) 817-3735
Hope this helps somebody.
PS: dealer policies can very from dealer to dealer. The dealers dictates as mention from others on this blog…not GM. GM claims to have all dealers in the country trained to service the Volts by the end of the year.
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:18 am)No Clint Eastwood did. (No insult intended)–Why don’t you enter the pool?? We will know the answer soon.
As to battery size:
24kwr=100 miles (DOD=80%) BEV
16kwh=40miles (DOD=50%)EREV
same life, same warranty.
I rest my case
It’s just the facts.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:21 am)I would not be surprised to see this actually happen.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:28 am)This is the difference between true price gouging and new car sales. Ya gotta buy gas. Ya don’t gotta buy this specific car.
Anybody that states ‘I will not pay over MSRP’ is just kidding themselves. Show us your actual price that is at or below $41,000 (excluding TTL) for a 2011 Volt after the sale closes. I doubt we will see a single one.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:31 am)Correction from line #64
Sorry, I think I gave the wrong address and phone number. Below is the correct info.
Ourisman Chevrolet Buick GMC of Alexandria
Show Address:
1800 Old Richmond Highway,
Alexandria, VA 22303
Sales: (571) 366-8043
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:32 am)I did. I think my post is around number 67 in the thread.
+7
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:38 am)$54 lousloot wrote: “price (should)=cost+reasonable profit.”…….In a socialistic society. The economic system in the US is still largely capitalistic. Funny thing to me, no one complains when a dealer sells a car for invoice or less. Will anyone complaining about dealers gouging customers go back to the dealer they bought their last car from and reimburse them the difference betwwen what they paid and MSRP…in FAIRNESS? I doubt it. It is the sellers right to get the most he can out of his product and the buyers right to pay as little as possible, that is how capitalism works folks.
………………………………………………………………………………………….
If you go to order a Volt from a dealer in an area authorized to sell one go through the process just as if the car is on the lot. Get a readout of standard and optional equipment. Get a signed purchase agreement stating price, taxes, doc fee, etc. Pay a deposit and get an receipt. An “order” w/o a statement of equipment and a purchase order, signed by both parties, is worthless.
……………………………………………………………………………………….
Be warned…a dealer is no more required to lease a Volt for $350/month than they are required to sell one for $41,000. The lease payment is based on a specific selling price and if that price goes up so will the lease payment. In fact GMAC will not even approve the lease if the capitalized cost is too high (last I heard 120% of MSRP for customers with good credit), so you may have to come up with more money out of pocket.
………………………………………………………………………………….
Remember the old saying, “All good things come to those who wait”. Prices will come down, you’ll have more choices, and quality will be better in a couple of years. Don’t get your panties all in a wad. Sit back, drink a cold beer, and wait. In a couple of years you’ll be glad you did. Hell, you’ll probably buy your Volt for $100 over invoice.
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:47 am)I agree…”out of state” sales is important question for GM to address directly.
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:48 am)Thanks,
I missed it and also I missed Rooster’s change to 50-52. Your in the slot w/Rooster and WOT and that’s a good sign. I will repost the spreadsheet.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:49 am)Exactly.
What gives GM the authority to interfere in Interstate Commerce by banning out of state sales?
I’m not sure GM actually has the authority to do that, I mean technically they could be sued by a private citizen who feels that the GM ban on out of state sales of the Volt constitutes a violation of his Constitutional right of free Interstate Commerce and Transit.
Just a thought.
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (10:57 am)“For a year now, we’ve had people contacting us from out of state, trying to make a purchase, but G.M. told us in-state-driver sales only,” Paul Galassi, Internet manager for Novato Chevrolet, north of San Francisco told the Times. “It’s sad, honestly, because as a dealership you hate to turn anybody away.”
So now that nasaman and others have contacted GM about this, it seems we have a ‘non-issue’ in the news today. From the quote above, it sounds like a ‘policy’ set by the General Manager was taken out of context and so the Times thinks it is a General Motors mandate.
Not the first time a lazy news reporter didn’t bother to check his facts before running with a story.
I have customers from all over the USA, especially on Corvettes. I am more than happy to take an order on a VOLT, but as I have told my other out-of-state-ers “be aware that we are not responsible for any additional costs you may incur because you are outside of our service area. I think the VOLT will be the ‘best built’ car GM has ever produced, so having a problem with the car is unlikely in my opinion, but if someone were to HIT your car, where would you get service?”
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:01 am)People just need to cancel their orders if the dealer is charing over MSRP. This is really a slap in the face to the consumers they are trying to win back. Long term value of a customer is worth far more than a “smash and grab” technique like this gouging. Business 101 stuff.
Again, its no wonder people hate car dealers with these stunts.
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:01 am)j/k = just kidding or joking
Sometimes I am a punk.
The ‘same life’ part remains to be seen in actual real-world conditions. I’m betting 5 years for the LEAF battery before unusable and 10 years for the Volt battery.
Because of the Volt’s reserve capacity, you will still get 40 miles AER in year 8. The LEAF will be well below 100 miles range in 5 years or less.
For some drivers, 100 miles range will not be possible on day one (reference: Lyle’s experience with his ’100 mile’ lease car. He’s only getting 75.) Yeah, you can say the same thing about Volt’s 40 AER, but, there’s always that generator thingy to back you up.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:02 am)As far as I remember, somebody from GM (may be Bob Lutz) said that anyone can go to Detroit, and buy Volt there.
Hm?
+6
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:04 am)Somewhat OT (and, for me, very disappointing news)…
Today’s Friday and it’s just turned pretty sour for me. I just got off the phone with the Gen Mgr of a large Chevy & Saturn dealer in Sterling, VA in the DC area & a Volt-approved dealer. I was #2 on his Volt list —until just now— and I’ve been talking to & exchanging emails with him for over a week now. The Gen Mgr is fully “up to speed” on 2011 Volt deals now, having spent much of the day yesterday with a GM rep about it. I live in east central Florida very close to I-95 (which extends from Miami to Maine on the eastern seaboard) and I’ve bought a car in NY state & driven it back home on I-95 —it made sense because that deal was so good— and it worked out very well for me.
Unfortunately, while the fact I’m about 1,000 miles from this (nearest) dealer isn’t really a problem, the deal I’d be able to get isn’t good enough even if I leased. My problem is that I’d need to trade my 2008 VUE, which has a very depressed blue book value because of Saturn’s demise. This means I’d wind up being way too far “under water” (to use home mortgage lingo) after payoff of my VUE. So I’ve decided to wait until Florida dealers near me get some cars and pray that the $7.5K rebate will still be available at that time. Bummer! —but it’s not actually so terrible to have to wait since my VUE is a real joy to drive & has most of the creature comforts the Volt would have (including leather, OnStar, etc, etc) …plus, it can tow my boat (which would present a problem for me if I traded).
BTW, for anyone else on the eastern seaboard, this dealer is near I-95, sells/leases at MSRP and is very responsive. They should have several 2011 Volts still unclaimed. His web site is…
http://www.sterlingchevrolet.com/AboutSpecials?promo=chevy_volt_form&cs:a:i=gm_cic_chevy_volt
and the phone is 703-450-7500. Ask for Stan Hale (the Gen Mgr) or for Brandon Coble (who orders the cars from GM).
/’scuse me while I get another hanky
(
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:05 am)Can the price gouging be eliminated by going with the GM lease terms of $2,500 down and $350 per month?
+4
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:10 am)I am actually a little disappointed in Lyle for not vetting this, especially as he does have contacts within GM. Just re-posting another websites story with a headline about GM banning sales to out of state customers is lazy on Lyle’s part.
I know he has a real job, but he has cultivated a certain amount of credibility in which now anything he posts is taken as truth. I am sure a quick email to one of his contacts could have helped get the real story posted here.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:11 am)If the GM Volt lease is only 12,000 miles, driving 40 miles/day 365 days/year is 14,600 miles. That plus insurance (unknown cost), electricity recharge cost ($1./day), and maybe 1-2 tanks of gas. . . doesn’t seem very good. If the lease was 15,000 miles/year then maybe. . .
A dealership here in West Michigan, (DeNooyer Chevrolet of Kalamazoo). Their salesperson expects two (2) Volts in 2010, the showroom Volt, and one (1) for sale. They’ve accepted six (6) $500. deposits but have no idea when the cars might arrive in 2011. The salesperson said their dealership is not “marking up” the Volt’s cost above $41K MSRP.
+5
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:17 am)I will NOT pay OVER MSRP PERIOD. I never paid MSRP or over in my Life. The Volt will be the First Car in my Life I paid MSRP. If they charge over MSRP it just means my wait has increased
+5
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:19 am)It’s hardly ‘killing the electric car’ if you go out and buy a Leaf. It’s more about pushing people TO the electric car, lol.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:35 am)I think GM has spent too much time and money on the Volt to want the Volt to end up like the EV-1. Can you imagine the public relations disaster in addition to another blemish on their “new” image?
Also, does anyone know what the maintenance requirements are for the Volt (as compared to an ICE)?
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:39 am)Same warranty – agreed.
Same life ? Not so sure. Your 40 miles will still be available in 10 years or so because of the bigger buffer of 50% of the battery. But in 8 years, the 20% buffer of the BEV will be down to nothing or even in the minus. Chances are you won’t have 100 miles range left in your battery. Much lower range probably.
Volt will last much longer.
Don’t rest your case just yet.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:43 am)Words of wisdom. Well said.
Aug 6th, 2010 (11:58 am)I live in San Diego, and visited two GM dealerships, both of which indicated they would sell Volts at MSRP. One went to the trouble of mentioning that they don’t want to sell over MSRP (or to out-of-staters) because they want to establish a long-term relationship with the new customer. Makes perfect sense IMHO. Got my order number = happy camper. Just have to decide whether to buy or lease. The argument favoring leasing is the likely dramatic battery improvements over the next few years…
+3
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:08 pm)This whole “panic buying” thing is nuts. No doubt a few lunatics will spend $5000 or more over MSRP in order to be the first one on the block to have a Volt, but the more sensible approach is just to let the dust die down. After the dust settles you should be able to buy one at or slightly above MSRP. And in two years you may be able to buy one for less than MSRP as Volt production ramps up and other manufacturers release their cars and Nissan ramps up to 150,000 Leafs a year. So rather than get outraged by the markups just sit back and wait. In this case patience is a virtue which will save you a few hundred dollars a month.
The simple fact is that the Volt is pricey. Yes the liquid battery management system is awesome, and yes the range extender is handy, but EREVs have some downsides as well. The Volt has considerably less room than a same sized pure EV, and the range extender will come will many of the maintenance and repair problems of a traditional ICE vehicles, which makes it more costly in the long run. So when you start comparing a Volt to a Leaf, even if you could get a Volt at MSRP it’s hard to justify the $8K premium much less a $13K premium (which you might get if you live in a CARB state).
As for dealers, I don’t get them. In my mind a cost-benefit analysis doesn’t support really jacking up the price. Yes they can make more money by going well over MSRP, but they aren’t going to be have that many cars to sell, so the total sum isn’t going to be overwhelming. And by jacking up the price they are going to get a bad reputation in a Volt community which is going to be fairly tightknit and able to post opinions all over the Net. Because of this, maximizing the return on the first five or ten Volts they get might lose them 5X or 10X the sales over the next couple of years. No one is going to get overly upset by a small markup over MSRP, but I’d think you could generate more in valuable PR by taking the radical step of holding to MSRP than by jacking the price for the few Volts you’ll be able to sell.
Maybe CorvetteGuy can elucidate the thinking.
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:10 pm)Awesome that you have the ability and the desire. Seems to make sense for you to call some dealers anyway, to find out for yourself whether out of state dealers will sell to you or not.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:10 pm)I’m not surprised about the out-of-staters being turned away. Years ago I was turned away from a dealer in Phoenix trying to get an EV1. I lived in Maryland. I will visit a Chevy dealer tonight to spec out my volt. I don’t know yet what he’ll charge. Whatever it is, I’ll post it!!!
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:11 pm)Nasaman,
Your very intelligent, and I think you probably do work for NASA. However, you should know that you should NEVER, Never, finance a car. It’s the worst investment in the world. You should be making enough money to not have to do so.
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:11 pm)So which dealerships did you talk to?
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:12 pm)We believe GM’s middle managers But what does GM Leadership really believe? From Peterson’s interview we should understand GM CEO & CFO Liddell are appalled their best kept indecision – MSRP — being torpedoed by their own dealers before VOLT gets out of the harbor.
Dealer pricing is formidable. Generally, the dealer has 22%-25% to ‘play with’. In other words, MSRP is built out of invoice; which itself is built out of a complex of cost components. These in turn encompass build, overhead & selling. Then … the diff between invoice and MSRP being ‘profit’. Now those of us who have managed manufacturing budgets know a ‘profit’ of 2% doesn’t cut it. For a comparison of costs go to Google: msl1.mit.edu/classes/esd123/vyas.pdf
Look over your newspaper’s Sat morn’s car sales section. They’d want you to think when you buy at invoice the dealer’s thrown in his shirt. Whatever, internet sales do cut into sales-people commissions.
Its also clear the MSRP mess exposed by Lyle’s poll, puts backlog at some question. One other issue: By GM’s edict banning interstate sales – GM effectively bans internet sales. This issue needs to be more thought through and revised. And GM banning interstate sales in Texarkana…
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:17 pm)Very sorry to hear this. The price has kept many of the long time fans from pulling the trigger and that’s a bit distressing.
Gen II and more production can’t get here fast enough.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:18 pm)No, it’s a question of whether their are enough buyers with more money than brains.
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:18 pm)Hey guys just accept it. For x number of miles total a 40 mile range EV will have to be charged 2.5 times as much. and number of cycles is a huge driver. The way GM makes up for it is by decresing the DOD. There is and advantage to battery sizing when your talking BEV. The Prius battery (12 mile AER) weighs almost as much as the Volts!!
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:21 pm)My earlier comment got caught up in moderator pergatory so I’ll try again:
A GM representative has replied to a similar forum thread started on the Chevy VoltAge web site. The rep’s response agrees with what several others found by directly calling GM’s Volt help line – you are able to order from out of state although they encourage you to wait till Volt reaches your market.
+5
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:38 pm)At first I felt bad that I won’t be driving gas free and leaving overseas oil in the rear view mirror ASAP. Then I realized that someone who is paying $10,000 over MSRP will be doing that for me. All I can say is. Hey buddy whoever you are, thanks for joining the team, and be sure to post your results on the net somewhere. Still way cheaper than a Tesla Roadster Sport right, happy motoring to you, and thanks for taking one for the team, because you have truly earned every moment of enjoyment.
When there are more on the road and production rates go up, I’ll be joining you, and enjoying the progress until then if nasaman’s & EV Chels comment @ 52 is anywhere near close to being a true prediction.
DonC, in that light sitting back and waiting doesn’t seem so bad. Let the dust settle down and the picture will be clearer.
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:40 pm)When I talked to them a week ago they said they had an allocation of 5, were already sold out, and to call back in 2 months. They made no mention of their pricing or any problem with me being out-of-state (and I made it very clear, on paper, that I was waaaay out-of-state). I did encounter a dealership (1 out of 7) who said they would only sell local, but it wasn’t Ourisman.
I’m only halfway through the comments on this thread but catching up fast …
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:42 pm)“Never, never finance a car”?!? Whereas I totally agree with your finance advice, most people don’t have this luxury.
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:45 pm)May cause some short term heartache, but it won’t make a difference on the road, since the Volt and Leaf will be sold out for the first year. Is the iMiev coming soon too, I can’t remember their intro dates for it in NA?
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:47 pm)Actually, by restricting demand, they lower the chance of price gouging since the dealers have fewer people they can sell it to…
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:50 pm)For next a year or two there is no point comparing price of Volt with Leaf even though both are different category (and we don’t have any car close to each)….
Volt is way high expensive than Leaf…hope Leaf don’t end up to the same sad state of under supply over priced like Volt…..
Also I am not good in Lease concept…do the dealers increase the monthly lease cost or would ask for upfront payment it they wanted over MSRP ?
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:54 pm)The miles are negotiable in any lease. If you know you are going to drive 15,000, then, it’s best to work that into the lease rather than pay higher charges for going over.
/full disclosure. I never lease. It’s too restrictive and more expensive in my situation.
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:56 pm)Agreed, we can’t assume the Volts battery will last longer than the Leaf, but just to be sure leasing a Leaf seems a safe bet, and if the battery is still good in 3 years, you can buy the car then. For those that buy their Leaf, also remember, a 70 mile range in 2016 could be better than a 100 mile range in 2011. Because in 2016 there may be charging stations every few miles on the highways.
Aug 6th, 2010 (12:57 pm)Depends on the charge for extra miles. May be better to put off that charge until 3 years later. Especially if you are driving 60,000 miles on a 36,000 mile lease, and the per mile charge is reasonable, just put off that expense.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:01 pm)WELL SAID, and thank you jeffhre. Yeah, I’m willing to pay over MSRP to get it sooner. That are MANY reasons for that, which I’m actually going to sit down and itemize this weekend, just to think this through and to be ready for this question that I will have to field over and over.
But one fundamental reason is that I want to start seriously promoting this technology. Talk is cheap; I want to buy the damn car and then take everyone I know out to lunch in it. I am absolutely serious — I plan to spend my first year with the car taking everyone I know out to lunch so I have time to A) actually sit their butt in the car and punch the accelerator, and B) spend an hour explain all this and most importantly debunking all the tired old myths (e.g. the myth of coal power being just as dirty).
I’m an electrical engineer and I have been really scrutinizing this technology since early 2008, so I consider myself uniquely qualified to, as you say, “take on for the team” and get to work seriously promoting this technology. The lease deal just clinched it for me.
It’s a personal decision, obviously. Your mention of the Tesla Roadster is apt, because Tesla did a real service to the EV industry by successfully bringing the Roadster to market. Besides showing the industry that it was possible and even profitable, it made some people like me think very seriously about spending a huge amount of money for a groundbreaking car. I didn’t buy one, obviously. But now, when another car comes along (e.g. Volt) with similar technology, we’ve been “softened up” and are now far more willing to pay what seems like an exhorbitant price.
But, you know, whatever, please resume your declarations of “anyone who pays over MSRP is stoopid”. I’ll buy you lunch anytime, and look forward to putting that EV grin on your face
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:03 pm)Unless the Volt lease is truly unique, increasing the miles on the front end is always far less expensive than paying for them at the end. I think that was his point.
However, if you’re driving that many miles, leasing is probably not a good option, and the Volt may not be the right car.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:03 pm)New Clarification Post Published:
http://gm-volt.com/2010/08/06/clarification-gm-has-not-banned-dealers-from-selling-volts-out-of-state/
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:07 pm)All things with respect to cars are negotiable but it’s likely it would be a side payment.
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:17 pm)#93 Streetlight wrote…”the dealer has 22%-25% to ‘play with’”…This is BS. As a dealer for nearly 20 years let me assure you there is not 25% markup on a car.
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:19 pm)I don’t see where this can happen. Both cars would be charged at night in the garage. Once per night. How is Volt needing 2-1/2 times more charge cycles? If you are opportunity charging, it would still apply to both cars.
Unless you’re saying that you only need to charge every 100 miles on one and every 40 miles on the other? That’d be very dangerous for your shoes.
Pedestrian: one who runs out of gasoline or electricity.
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:22 pm)No question there isn’t a 25% markup. But there is some profit. The article says the invoice is $1800 under MSRP and there are extras like holdbacks. The point would be that selling at MSRP would be great though for most vehicles MSRP is simply the starting point for the negotiation.
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:29 pm)Lunch, EV grin, and no overseas oil.
How can anyone fault the people, who starting in November, will actually be doing something about it! (well except maybe Rush, but he gets paid very well to do that) If people have money that is free for just that, or no money but a lot of credit and not too much upstairs, present company excluded of course, then a Volt for all takers.
Please have the patience to avoid one of the $10,000 above MSRP dealers though, I don’t think I could enjoy my lunch after getting some news like that
+1
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:31 pm)Capt Jack was trying to explain this a few days ago. Take a Leaf and a Volt. Drive them both 40 miles. Assuming they use the same number of KWh, the Volt will have its pack discharged 50% (8/16). The Leaf will have its pack discharged 33% (8/24). If you charged at work then the Volt would be subjected to 1 discharge cycle per day but the Leaf would only be subjected to 2/3rds of a discharge cycle. After nine days you’d be looking at 9 cycles versus 6. Since lower discharge rates lead to longer life a larger battery pack naturally leads to a longer life, other things being equal. This is why a battery in a PHEV is subjected to more stress than one is a BEV.
His numbers were off because he was thinking the capacity of the Volt’s pack was 8 kWh rather than 16 kWh but the thrust of his idea is right.
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:32 pm)Yeah. And I’m sure he paid cash for his house too. Not.
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:54 pm)I did actually. but not because I’m independently wealthy–because I had a good engineering job and saved money instead of wasting it.
Gather up as much profit as you can Corvettguy. Save all those 2000$ markups! Maybe you won’t have to take out a loan for your next bicycle!
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (1:56 pm)That’s why it’s a good idea to teach our kids the difference between necessities and wants. Wants and luxuries. Depreciating assets and basic shelter.
+2
Aug 6th, 2010 (2:03 pm)Chris C ++++ Those are my reasons exactly that I have a Volt reserved from a dealer in VA. I am paying $3000.00 over MSRP + airfare from Miami and will love every mile back home. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford some luxury and indulgence in my life (no kids and a supportive wife). Being an engineer and having followed the Volt’s development in this forum, I consider myself (and MOST of the posters here ) fairly well educated on this unique vehicle (Thanks to Lyle) and will be anticipating the call in November or December that it has finally arrived.
Aug 6th, 2010 (3:04 pm)John m and Chris C. Congratulations on being pioneers in getting us off of overseas oil. You can take my tongue in cheek criticisms for what they are worth. Along with “a Dollar 29″, I think you could get a cup of coffee.
Chris C, I too toyed with the idea of getting a Tesla. So I don’t have a problem with spending the money. The dealer mark-up just happens to fall into a category of unnecessary for me right now.
And I decided that I’m too late for the Tesla. Truth is for all the money I’ve wasted on ICE’s that wore out far too fast, from my first car to the present, and all the the gas I’ve paid for…to have a classically styled fun to drive roadster would have completely paid for itself by now. I should have bought one when I graduated from high school, 30 years ago.
I’d like to join the Volt owner’s club soon, perhaps just not in November though.
Well, this is getting too long and dangerously close to ranting for a short tongue in cheek comment, so…happy driving fellas!
Aug 6th, 2010 (3:07 pm)Hi #110 WK4P I’ll restate that. The 20%-25% is related to selling costs per COMPARISON OF INDIRECT COST MULTIPLIERS FOR VEHICLE MANUFACTURING – an MIT publication.
See Tables 1 % 5. msl1.mit.edu/classes/esd123/vyas.pdf
I can understand your frustration at a non-dealer citing margins you’ve lived and fought for all those years. However, I state nothing which isn’t supported. I will agree my statement tends towards being too breezy.
BTW: Are you a GM dealer? And VOLT…
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:02 pm)IF demand outstrips supply, and IF dealers are forced to sell at MSRP, the result would be cars on Ebay.
Aug 6th, 2010 (9:11 pm)Hendrick (Balboa Ave) – http://www.HendrickAuto.com
and
Bob Stall (College area) – http://www.bobstall.com