Jul 30

Breaking: GM to Increase 2012 Chevrolet Volt Production to 45,000 and Obama Drives a Volt

 


[ad#post_ad]A few weeks ago GM announced they would be producing 10,000 Chevy Volts in 2011 and 30,000 in 2012.

Now apparently due to strong consumer interest the company has decided to increase that second year production number by 50% to 45,000 cars.

This decision comes only days after GM announced Volt pricing and on the same day President Obama is visiting the Chevy Volt production plant at Detroit-Hamtramck Michigan (DHAM).

In fact just an hour ago, President Obama got into a Chevrolet Volt and drove it for a few feet before Secret Service agents stopped him.

“Some of you saw me drive the Volt about 12 inches; they don’t let me drive much these days,” said Obama. “Pretty smooth.”

He is addressing crowds both at the DHAM plant as well as a Chrysler plant in support of his previous decision to bail out both companies.

“A lot of people were skeptical. There were many who said we should just let the market take its course. Let GM go bankrupt. Let Chrysler go out of business,” Obama told the crowd at General Motors’ Hamtramck plant. “But I had confidence in you.”

Dealers have seen strong consumer interest stemming from Volt pricing, and GM has indicated their email interest list has exceeded 70,000 names. This is not including the 54,000 names found on the GM-Volt want list.

[ad#postbottom]

This entry was posted on Friday, July 30th, 2010 at 1:08 pm and is filed under Politics, Production. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 206


  1. 1
    Rashiid Amul

    +10

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:14 pm)

    Excellent. Keep it going higher. They finally see that these are going to be a sell out.


  2. 2
    nuclearboy

    +9

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nuclearboy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:15 pm)

    Great News.

    I hope demand continues to push things forward and we see another announcement sometime next year about further increases in production.


  3. 3
    Rashiid Amul

    +14

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rashiid Amul
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:17 pm)

    nuclearboy: Great News.
    I hope demand continues to push things forward and we see another announcement sometime next year about further increases in production.  

    …..or further mileage increase in CS mode and a lower price. :)


  4. 4
    Rextado

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Rextado
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:17 pm)

    looks like it could follow a similar announcment for the 10k number in a few weeks.


  5. 5
    unni

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    unni
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:22 pm)

    We look forward to you – eestor so that we can have a $2000 ultra-capacitor with 100 mile range and quick charging capability so that we can drive volts affordable.


  6. 6
    bobw

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    bobw
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:22 pm)

    So long as they make a profit on each one.

    Otherwise it’s just digging the hole faster.


  7. 7
    LandKurt

    +12

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LandKurt
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:24 pm)

    That’s good news. It’s been a bit pesimistic around here lately, maybe this will lighten things up. It makes me feel a little better anyway.

    The dealers must have been screaming for larger allocations once ordering became possible. I wonder how many times they’ll change their mind about production figures before 2012. After all, they haven’t sold a single one yet. A whole lot can happen between now and 2012.


  8. 8
    nuclearboy

    +14

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nuclearboy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:24 pm)

    “In fact just an hour ago, President Obama got into a Chevrolet Volt
    and drove it for about 40 feet before Secret Service agents stopped him.”

    Always hear about these types of things where the secret service guys get in the way and I think about being the Pres and telling the secret service to get out of the way. Pres Obama could have jumped out on the highway and picked up some mpg numbers in CS mode had the SS guys not intervened :)

    Presidents used to drive around in DC and you used to be able to walk right up to the whitehouse. Pres. Grant was pulled over by a DC cop for driving his buggy too fast. Times have changed. Now the peasants are kept at a distance.


  9. 9
    edvard

    -13

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    edvard
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:26 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  10. 10
    Timaaayyy!!!

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Timaaayyy!!!
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:26 pm)

    Excellent! “If they come, we will build it.”

    Set the bar high, then low, then somewhere on the middle. Those are the Volt Dance moves that Obama seems to be making in the pic above. 8^)


  11. 11
    DonC

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:26 pm)

    This is great news. Hopefully with higher production levels they can get the price per copy down and start building volume. They need to be much closer to the Leaf in price if they are to stay in the race. In any event, maybe Tag can get his Volt in the near future at a price he can afford!

    I like the part about Obama driving the Volt 40 feet. I guess after this he started using the range extender. ;-)


  12. 12
    carcus3

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    carcus3
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:30 pm)

    Looks like the IPO wind-up has begun.


  13. 13
    Jim I

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:31 pm)

    OK, this is good news!

    They realized that they can get away with a price of up to $45K, so why not increase production!!!!

    Now when will they be available in Youngstown, Ohio?????????????

    My dealer wants to know…………..

    ;-)


  14. 14
    DonC

    +7

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:32 pm)

    nuclearboy: Now the peasants are kept at a distance. 

    The peasants are OK. It’s that you can’t tell who the armed nuts are. Another couple of inches and Reagan would have been a half term president.


  15. 15
    Kent

    +22

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:32 pm)

    I mentioned a couple of days ago that I was #20 on my dealer’s Volt waiting list (of which the dealership was allocated a minimum of 16 Volts). I just received an email from the dealer saying that they will honor the Volt MSRP and will not add a dealer mark-up. That makes it one step closer for me getting a Volt!


  16. 16
    Mark Bartosik

    +12

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mark Bartosik
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:34 pm)

    I’ve spoken with a dealer asking for $5000 markup over MSRP.
    GM doesn’t get any of that $5000.
    But if GM increases volume they get more $, and the markup the dealers can charge is less, and we at gm-volt.com may be able to afford one.
    All good news.


  17. 17
    ronr64

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ronr64
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:34 pm)

    That’s awesome news! Maybe it will help soothe some of the hurt feelings over the $41K sticker shock some have.

    I’m a Rush Limbaugh fan and today he blasted the Volt again. Now I know how kids feel when their parents fight…


  18. 18
    Jim I

    +18

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:36 pm)

    Mark Bartosik: I’ve spoken with a dealer asking for $5000 markup over MSRP.
    GM doesn’t get any of that $5000.
    But if GM increases volume they get more $, and the markup the dealers can charge is less, and we at gm-volt.com may be able to afford one.
    All good news.  

    Find another dealer……

    JMHO


  19. 19
    Roy H

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Roy H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:39 pm)

    edvard: You know…. that’s good news but…. What the hell? There’s that many people willing to shell out $40k for a Chevrolet?  

    No. 70k people interested does not mean they are willing to pay $40k, and GM knows that. There will be a price reduction for 2012 Volts. I think to-days announcement confirms that.


  20. 20
    ronr64

    +19

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ronr64
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:39 pm)

    If I was a dealer I would consider having an ongoing auction for the first one with the proceeds above MSRP going to a local charity. I would keep the auction going right up to the delivery of the dealerships first Volt. Good advertising and PR. Allows everyone to know that you are only going to take MSRP yet you allow someone with deep pockets to get one by paying through the nose and helping out a charity. Seems like a win – win – win.


  21. 21
    CorvetteGuy

    +15

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:42 pm)

    What a relief! I’ve been a bit depressed since the price was announced and I confirmed deposit orders on all of our allocated units. With no more VOLTs to sell I was suffering from “Post Traumatic VOLT Inventory Disorder”… What was earlier described here months ago as the “Customer Depletion Point” :)


  22. 22
    Roy H

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Roy H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:42 pm)

    Mark Bartosik: I’ve spoken with a dealer asking for $5000 markup over MSRP.
    GM doesn’t get any of that $5000.
    But if GM increases volume they get more $, and the markup the dealers can charge is less, and we at gm-volt.com may be able to afford one.
    All good news.  

    Click on CorvetteGuy’s name, takes you to his site. $2k over MSRP.


  23. 23
    CorvetteGuy

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:45 pm)

    It was a surprise and a pleasure to speak to nasaman by phone just a bit ago…
    Live long and prosper!


  24. 24
    Timaaayyy!!!

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Timaaayyy!!!
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:46 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: What a relief! I’ve been a bit depressed since the price was announced and I confirmed deposit orders on all of our allocated units. With no more VOLTs to sell I was suffering from “Post Traumatic VOLT Inventory Disorder”… What was earlier described here months ago as the “Customer Depletion Point”   (Quote)

    What %age increase in # of units do you think you could sell?

    Thanks.

    T


  25. 25
    Dave K.

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave K.
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:47 pm)

    It’s good to see that GM expects 55,000 folks buying their car in the next 16 months. If the 45,000 production number for 2012 is true. Then other manufacturers will follow with stronger production plans for EV as well.
    The odds are now much greater that an EREV for the masses will be available by the end of 2012. With a price adjustment this car could be the 2012 Volt.
    Electricity provider stocks will gain 8%-10% by the end of next week. And those currently rated as “mild sell” will be upgraded to “hold”.

    =D-Volt


  26. 26
    Brian

    -10

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Brian
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:47 pm)

    (click to show comment)


  27. 27
    Noah Nehm

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Noah Nehm
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:51 pm)

    I’m really surprised and pleased that there seems to be so much demand for the Volt, even with it being priced so high. That will be good for GM because it will mean that they will not be operating at the kind of loss that Toyota had when they introduced the Prius. This will enable it to maintain the kind of R&D budget necessary to drive down the cost of the next generation Volt.


  28. 28
    Dan

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dan
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:52 pm)

    Great, now lets increase 2011 models. I have an order in already but still have to wait until March seeing that my dealer is in Michigan….seems kind of backwards.


  29. 29
    Slave to OPEC

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Slave to OPEC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:54 pm)

    Still playing phone tag on the lease.

    By the time I get this deal wrapped up, I’ll be driving a 2012 off the lot.

    :>(


  30. 30
    Ray

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ray
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:54 pm)

    Still going to be 2013 or 2014 or 2015 For Central Alberta Canada

    and no $7500 rebate…


  31. 31
    JeffB

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JeffB
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:55 pm)

    Roy H:
    Click on CorvetteGuy’s name, takes you to his site. $2k over MSRP.  

    Shame…shame…CorvetteGuy. :)


  32. 32
    nuclearboy

    +7

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nuclearboy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:55 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: What a relief! I’ve been a bit depressed since the price was announced and I confirmed deposit orders on all of our allocated units. With no more VOLTs to sell I was suffering from “Post Traumatic VOLT Inventory Disorder”… What was earlier described here months ago as the “Customer Depletion Point” :)

    Thats really pretty funny and amazing at the same time. You follow the Volt for a few years, learn and become the dealer’s local expert, make charts and graphs and polish your sales pitch all in order to “sell” some 2011 Volts. What happens. First year call allotment sold in 100 hours. Probably could have been sold by an intern who could not tell a Volt from an Aveo.

    the boss should give you some time off.


  33. 33
    nasaman

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:56 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: It was a surprise and a pleasure to speak to nasaman by phone just a bit ago…
    Live long and prosper!

    The same right back atcha, CorvetteGuy! Although I’m not a Vulcan & don’t have pointed ears, I wish you the same! Ain’t it great that GM has already increased Volt production by 50% for next year just since Tuesday?!?

    BTW, thanks for taking my call! And as Roy H said in #22, just clicking on CorvetteGuy’s name takes you to his excellent & very informative Chevy Volt site.


  34. 34
    Future EV Driver

    +9

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Future EV Driver
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:56 pm)

    Great news! Hopefully they sell out fast and make more!

    We need to get this car’s price down to $30K for the masses to accept it….

    GO EV!!!!


  35. 35
    CorvetteGuy

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:59 pm)

    Timaaayyy!!!: What %age increase in # of units do you think you could sell?Thanks.T  (Quote)

    Good question! I had planned to market the VOLTs to local City, County and State offices in our area. Our dealership is pretty strong with local government. That’s why I was angry in the early days when they said there would be “no Red or White”. Now we have Red and White.

    I have 10 orders total so far. In the 2011 model year, I think we can do another 16 to 20 since the bulk of cars will not be available until early next year.


  36. 36
    Kent

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kent
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (1:59 pm)

    Who’s the babe with Obama? Looks the the Volt is a chick magnet!


  37. 37
    Jim I

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:02 pm)

    nasaman:
    The same right back atcha, CorvetteGuy! Although I’m not a Vulcan & don’t have pointed ears, I wish you the same! Ain’t it great that GM has already increased Volt production by 50% just since Tuesday?! BTW, thanks for taking my call Click on CorvetteGuy’s! And as Roy H said in #22, just clicking on GorvetteGuy’s name, takes you to his (excellent Chevy Volt) site.  

    ==========================

    So did you buy – I mean lease your Volt????

    :-)


  38. 38
    max_headroom

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    max_headroom
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:06 pm)

    Great news!

    GM, please send some Volts northward to Canada in the first year too! We helped bail you out too remember?


  39. 39
    Gary

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Gary
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:06 pm)

    Phew! I saw the words “Increase”, “2012″, and “45,000″ in the headline…

    At first, I thought it said, “Breaking: GM to Increase 2012 Chevrolet Volt Price to $45,000″

    That would be bad, mkay? (Mr. Mackey South Park Reference) :-)


  40. 40
    nasaman

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:08 pm)

    Jim I, #37: So did you buy – I mean lease your Volt????

    Still negotiating, Jim. (It’s complicated by the fact I’m in Florida and my nearest approved Volt dealers are in the DC metro area.)


  41. 41
    Timaaayyy!!!

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Timaaayyy!!!
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:11 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Good question! I had planned to market the VOLTs to local City, County and State offices in our area. Our dealership is pretty strong with local government. That’s why I was angry in the early days when they said there would be “no Red or White”. Now we have Red and White.I have 10 orders total so far. In the 2011 model year, I think we can do another 16 to 20 since the bulk of cars will not be available until early next year.  (Quote)

    Thanks. Extrapolating to the whole initial mkt area, that’s 2x-3x the 10k units being produced. Then extrapolating further to the whole US mkt, that’s __ units, and to the whole world, that’s __ units. Hmmm. Either GM increases the 10k available, or that huge excess demand will have to flow to the 45k units in the following year.

    Great website, by the way.


  42. 42
    Steverino

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Steverino
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:11 pm)

    Kent: Who’s the babe with Obama? Looks the the Volt is a chick magnet!

    That’s the GM plant manager


  43. 43
    nasaman

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:13 pm)

    Kent: Who’s the babe with Obama? Looks the the Volt is a chick magnet!  

    She resembles the Hamtramack plant manager —but I’m guessing based on a photo months ago. And I’m sure a lady named Michelle knows the “Pres” is also a chick magnet, big time!


  44. 44
    Gary

    +11

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Gary
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:19 pm)

    ronr64: I’m a Rush Limbaugh fan and today he blasted the Volt again.

    Rush seems to be like like the typical cranky old grandpa that every family has, that rants and complains about everything under the sun… but doesn’t know the whole picture of what he’s talking about.

    http://www.freep.com/article/20100730/BLOG24/100730003/1001/NEWS/The-Chevy-Volt-President-Obama-and-Rush-Limbaugh

    bilde?Site=C4&Date=20100730&Category=BLOG24&ArtNo=100730003&Ref=AR&Profile=1001&MaxW=600&MaxW=800&q=50


  45. 45
    Mike D.

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Mike D.
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:20 pm)

    Grrr…Chevy just sent me the email saying the Volt is available to order. I know that, and contacted my dealer…I’m just waiting for him to get back to me with ordering information…frustrating, lol.


  46. 46
    statik

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    statik
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:22 pm)

    …the President has good taste in color choice


  47. 47
    ricco

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ricco
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:28 pm)

    Looks like GM needs to up production on these cars to sell and make profit fast before the rest of the competion swoops up there potenial buyers with a 200+ range EV soon to arrive, It’s just a matter of Time
    but can you wait for it, for many the anwser is NO.


  48. 48
    flmark

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    flmark
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:35 pm)

    ronr64: I’m a Rush Limbaugh fan and today he blasted the Volt again.   (Quote)

    Sooooo? Isn’t it time to stop being a fan of his??? Your here writing and happy about the Volt. Continue listening to him and your head will explode.


  49. 49
    CorvetteGuy

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:45 pm)

    I am also disappointed with El Rushbo today. His fact-checkers dropped the ball and he is sounding like an idiot. But, he himself says that he is only right 99.6% of the time.


  50. 50
    nuclearboy

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nuclearboy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:48 pm)

    Kent: Who’s the babe with Obama? Looks the the Volt is a chick magnet!

    Thank goodness its not B. Clinton in there as Pres.


  51. 51
    Neromancer

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Neromancer
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:49 pm)

    Awsome news. I was dissapointed when they said that only 30,000 would be made the sencond year. This is better news. Hopefully this number will go up to 60,000.

    Also the secret service should have let Obama drive the car.


  52. 52
    Steverino

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Steverino
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:50 pm)

    from Wall Street Journal:

    Of the Volt Limbaugh said, “Nobody wants this.” He attacked everything from the federal bailout of Chevy’s parent General Motors Corp. to the supposed superiority complex of people who would buy electric or hybrid cars.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/07/30/rush-limbaughs-tough-talk-is-chevys-volt-a-non-starter/


  53. 53
    ronr64

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ronr64
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (2:56 pm)

    flmark: Sooooo? Isn’t it time to stop being a fan of his??? Your here writing and happy about the Volt. Continue listening to him and your head will explode.  (Quote)

    Hey, half the population likes him and half doesn’t. The point wasn’t to open myself up to cheap shots from the 1/2 that doesn’t. He is certainly not alone in not understanding what the Volt is about – remember David Letterman? We don’t need to turn this sight political in a 1 side vs the other side kind of way – too much of that already in this world. That doesn’t mean politics won’t occassionally creap in such as discussing EPA ratings or govt credits etc. But how about keeping the discourse civil and only as it pertains to the Volt? Back to Rush. I’ve been a fan since 1988 so I’ve listened plenty and my head has yet to explode. I am also a huge fan of the Volt and the promise such vehicles bring. Yeah it sucks that he doesn’t get it but I also understand why he doesn’t get it. He is only looking at it from one perspective and that perspective makes the Volt not make sense depending upon what you believe. For example if you are an accountant and $ and cents are the only thing that guides you then you will never understand the Volt. If you think the Volt is only about less polution because of global warming and you don’t buy into global warming (I don’t believe but I digress…) then the Volt will not make sense. If you think we will have oil available for ever (does anyone really think that?) then the Volt will not makes sense. If you have anyone of these issues that is so important to you that you dismiss the others then the it won’t make sense to you that someone would pay that kind of money for it when other choices exist for far less money. That is one of the beauties of the Volt. Many people who normally don’t see eye to eye on many of our social issues can find common ground here. Not all but many. Myself it is the ability to ween ourselves off of a foreign sourced comodity that attracts me to the Volt. We send/spend way too much money/blood on securing reliable sources of oil. That’s me, for you it might be a different reason that I might find laughable. But hey, to each his own – Volt.


  54. 54
    Pat

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Pat
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:02 pm)

    That looney RUSH …amazing people listen to this nut case .. completely insane …y he makes lot of $$$ practicing hatred ..so sad .. But ….


  55. 55
    john1701a

    -9

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    john1701a
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:11 pm)

    Neromancer: I was dissapointed when they said that only 30,000 would be made the sencond year. This is better news. Hopefully this number will go up to 60,000.

    On the surface, that flexibility appears good. Underneath, frequently changing plans are what compromised efforts of the past. Seeing repeats of pre-bankruptcy management behavior happened post-bankruptcy, especially when the competition didn’t and still doesn’t do that, is reason to be extra careful about expectations.


  56. 56
    Sasparilla

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Sasparilla
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:15 pm)

    Great news on the production increase, must have had something to do with how fast their 2011 allotment sold out. Maybe they’ll up it again before we get to 2012.

    Somebody mentioned whether GM was making anything on them. I think it was in the NYT where a GM representative said at the price ($41k) they’d make money on the vehicle itself and pay for some of the development as well.

    Great to see them upping the production numbers.


  57. 57
    Pat

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Pat
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:15 pm)

    wow Volt looks so beautiful …With a new technology and all the electronic gizmos inside it certainly going to sell well especially with limited range for the current EV .. GM has a winner on their hands if they can keep the quality up …cuz sooner rather than later Japanese and Koreans will be on their heels ..just like Japanese did it in 90′s with quality products ..wtg GM


  58. 58
    kgurnsey

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kgurnsey
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:17 pm)

    nuclearboy: “In fact just an hour ago, President Obama got into a Chevrolet Voltand drove it for about 40 feet before Secret Service agents stopped him.”Always hear about these types of things where the secret service guys get in the way and I think about being the Pres and telling the secret service to get out of the way. Pres Obama could have jumped out on the highway and picked up some mpg numbers in CS mode had the SS guys not intervened Presidents used to drive around in DC and you used to be able to walk right up to the whitehouse. Pres. Grant was pulled over by a DC cop for driving his buggy too fast. Times have changed. Now the peasants are kept at a distance.  (Quote)

    Jean Cretien, who was the Canadian Prime Minister for about 10 years through the 90′s and 00′s, wrote in his memoirs about when he and Pres. Clinton successfully ditched the secret service (US and Canadian) when they were together for some meeting. I don’t remember the details, but it involved the two of them hopping a fence… I remember it being a good story though. :)


  59. 59
    CorvetteGuy

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:18 pm)

    The “2011 VOLT Initial Ordering Workbook” is now available for download.

    http://www.allnewchevyvolt.com/Volt_workbook.pdf

    Nothing in it said I could not post it for you guys. Enjoy!


  60. 60
    nuclearboy

    +7

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nuclearboy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:21 pm)

    john1701a: On the surface, that flexibility appears good. Underneath, frequently changing plans are what compromised efforts of the past. Seeing repeats of pre-bankruptcy management behavior happened post-bankruptcy, especially when the competition didn’t and still doesn’t do that, is reason to be extra careful about expectations.

    Old faithful has erupted. Even with news like this GM still sucks for John.

    How does one get so far over the edge?


  61. 61
    nuclearboy

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nuclearboy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:24 pm)

    kgurnsey: when he and Pres. Clinton successfully ditched the secret service (US and Canadian) when they were together for some meeting. I don’t remember the details, but it involved the two of them hopping a fence… I remember it being a good story though. :)

    Thats a good story. I also read that B. Clinton took a Car out through DC after having ditched his handlers. Good for him. I would try to do the same thing.


  62. 62
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:25 pm)

    Gary:
    Rush seems to be like like the typical cranky old grandpa that every family has, that rants and complains about everything under the sun… but doesn’t know the whole picture of what he’s talking about.http://www.freep.com/article/20100730/BLOG24/100730003/1001/NEWS/The-Chevy-Volt-President-Obama-and-Rush-Limbaugh  

    I encourage *everyone* to read the “article” at the above link. It’s a string of “I’ll bet Limbaugh does (insert early version of a tech) because he apparently doesn’t recognize that great things can have modest beginnings. The entire piece is pure speculation and does NOT reflect El Rushbo’s view of technology. Last week he bought his entire staff Iphones (latest version) because he admires high tech – especially Apple products (no he doesn’t have stock in it). The blogger states that he “singled out” the Volt which is simply inaccurate (he rails against the leaf for the same reason as the Volt = the tax rebate. Of course, many of the people reading that blog think it’s accurate because there isn’t much *perceived* overlap between environmentalists and Rush’s audience. I happen to be in both groups and can tolerate different opinions. In fact, I seek them out. I seriously wish that the Det Freep would put “a blogger’s opinion” in the link, so it doesn’t look so much like actual, accurate news.
    I’ve posted on this the last two days and stand by my posts. I heard the show the date the price was revealed, I didn’t catch it today, so I can’t vouch for that show.

    Be well and be careful,
    Tagamet


  63. 63
    Tagamet

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:33 pm)

    nuclearboy:
    Old faithful has erupted.Even with news like this GM still sucks for John.
    How does one get so far over the edge?  

    Practice, practice, practice….

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  64. 64
    Tagamet

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:42 pm)

    ronr64: …Many people who normally don’t see eye to eye on many of our social issues can find common ground here. Not all but many. Myself it is the ability to ween ourselves off of a foreign sourced comodity that attracts me to the Volt. We send/spend way too much money/blood on securing reliable sources of oil. That’s me, for you it might be a different reason that I might find laughable. But hey, to each his own – Volt.

    Well said. We all have one common interest – the Volt. The “Why’s” are as different as night and day. SOME even come here just to trash the Volt, but even they have an interest in the Volt (demented, but nonetheless, interested). I’ve already posted in response the the opinion piece by the Freep blogger. Rush was a LOT closer to reality than that blogger.

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  65. 65
    john1701a

    -5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    john1701a
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:44 pm)

    nuclearboy: How does one get so far over the edge?

    Just jump. Being trapped (no progress) isn’t appealing.

    It all boils down to SALES.

    That has been and will continue to be the measure of progress. A small number without influence on overall production or profit doesn’t actually accomplish anything.


  66. 66
    benson

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    benson
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:48 pm)

    I’m not particularly bright, though I am a bunch cynical, so here’s a question to ponder; If the Volt is as popular as it appears to be, and the production increase sure does indicate it is, where is the incentive for GM to lower the price? Seems to me if you’re selling out at $41K, why would you drop the price? Maybe someone smarter than me cares to tackle this one.

    happy weekend one and all.


  67. 67
    GM Volt Fan

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    GM Volt Fan
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:50 pm)

    Not sure if this has been posted yet or not, but it looks like GM’s marketing people did a good job on this new video that talks about the features and benefits of the Volt.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iPsvTEq0PQ&feature=player_embedded

    If you go on other blogs or websites you could post this video if you want to discuss the Volt. There’s plenty of people out there that don’t understand how the Volt is going to work … like Rush Limbaugh. I think he was just trying to “stir the pot” like he always does and play dumb. He knows that cars like the Volt are going to be big in the next few years.

    Here’s another video to show people who are trying to see how the Volt works and haven’t read much about it yet:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CnzLBlwlk8


  68. 68
    nuclearboy

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nuclearboy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:51 pm)

    john1701a: That has been and will continue to be the measure of progress. A small number without influence on overall production or profit doesn’t actually accomplish anything.

    I suggest a change in your name to Eeyore.

    I guess GM should shutter the plant and quit.


  69. 69
    Jack Driskill

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jack Driskill
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:56 pm)

    I support the marketing of an electric car that can provide an overall improvement in energy usage. However, I do not support having to subsidize people who can afford to buy a $40,000 vehicle with my tax dollars. (I’m still upset about the cash for clunkers program, since I know people that make over $200K per year that received $4,500 tax credits to buy new luxury vehicles.)


  70. 70
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:57 pm)

    Steverino: from Wall Street Journal:Of the Volt Limbaugh said, “Nobody wants this.” He attacked everything from the federal bailout of Chevy’s parent General Motors Corp. to the supposed superiority complex of people who would buy electric or hybrid cars.http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/07/30/rush-limbaughs-tough-talk-is-chevys-volt-a-non-starter/  

    *IN* the WSJ, under WSJ blogs. At least this fellow has some experience:
    Jonathan Welsh joined The Wall Street Journal in 1994 on the spot news desk. He began writing auto reviews and features for the Weekend Journal section in 1999 and joined the Personal Journal staff in 2006.

    He wasn’t at all pleased with his drive in the Mini-e (also in the WSJ.) (G)

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  71. 71
    LeoK

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LeoK
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (3:58 pm)

    The phone & email are buzzing today! Of the TEN customers I’ve spoken to today, 7 had never heard of the VOLT until this week. Several wanted to know if they could come test drive the car tomorrow. Apparently Chevrolet sent out an email blast to owners saying “Chevy Volt is ready to order”.

    Its going to be a long 4 or 5 months until we see the first one! But it will be fun…. and today’s news is just the start. They will have to ramp up production more…. and with increased production, pricing will come down.

    There are too many consumers who WANT to buy an American car that helps get us off foreign oil…. and yes, for some price will be an obstacle, but for many others, they will buy or lease and be VERY HAPPY.

    Look at it this way…. for every person willing to pay $41,000+ for a Gen 1 VOLT will help lower costs for Gen 2 as demand will continue to grow. So fan or foe, you should cheer every customer who is willing to step up and get in line to buy a VOLT today!


  72. 72
    ronr64

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    ronr64
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:00 pm)

    benson: I’m not particularly bright, though I am a bunch cynical, so here’s a question to ponder; If the Volt is as popular as it appears to be, and the production increase sure does indicate it is, where is the incentive for GM to lower the price? Seems to me if you’re selling out at $41K, why would you drop the price? Maybe someone smarter than me cares to tackle this one.happy weekend one and all.  (Quote)

    It is called competition. No way is the rest of the automobile world just going to sit on the side lines and let GM profitably sell 45,000 EREV’s a year without jumping in. Now if Volts sit on dealer lots unsold once the early adopters have theirs then that will be a different story. I seriously doubt that but if I was running OPEC I think I would flood the market with oil right now… That is if they even can. Production and demand are pretty constrained and have been for almost 10 years now so it would take a lot of $$ and time to do so. Meanwhile technology marches on and appears to have reached a critical point where I don’t think cheap gas prices would be able to kill it unless it happened right now.


  73. 73
    Fluke

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Fluke
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:02 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: The “2011 VOLT Initial Ordering Workbook” is now available for download.http://www.allnewchevyvolt.com/Volt_workbook.pdfNothing in it said I could not post it for you guys. Enjoy!  

    Thanks for posting this. Clears up some of the interior color choices.


  74. 74
    Steve

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Steve
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:07 pm)

    I don’t really care that Obama drove one or what Limbaugh has to say. I’m pretty certain I know more about technology and engineering than both of them combined.

    More sales means more revenue, which might mean a better and more affordable Gen II that I”m more likely to be able to buy.


  75. 75
    LRGVProVolt

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LRGVProVolt
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:11 pm)

    #53 ronr64:
    Hey, half the population likes him and half doesn’t.The point wasn’t to open myself up to cheap shots from the 1/2 that doesn’t.He is certainly not alone in not understanding what the Volt is about – remember David Letterman?  

    Now we”ll just have to wait and see if he recants. How long did it take Letterman to see the light? Not long! How long will we have to wait for Limbaugh to say “I was wrong about the Volt!” I’m not holding my breath.

    Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.


  76. 76
    Dan

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dan
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:11 pm)

    Corvetteguy, your site says 39mpg for the Volt in CS mode. What is this based on? I see there is an asterisk but I can’t find the corresponding asterisk where the details are given.


  77. 77
    CorvetteGuy

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:17 pm)

    Dan: Corvetteguy, your site says 39mpg for the Volt in CS mode. What is this based on? I see there is an asterisk but I can’t find the corresponding asterisk where the details are given.  (Quote)

    Everything on my site is based on what gets reported here on this site. A while back the concensus was 39MPG. That has changed recently to about 33-34MPG… I’ve just been busy and have not had the time to update some graphics. I was thinking of holding off till it was official, but who knows how long that will be….. My bad…..


  78. 78
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:23 pm)

    LRGVProVolt: Now we”ll just have to wait and see if he recants. How long did it take Letterman to see the light? Not long! How long will we have to wait for Limbaugh to say “I was wrong about the Volt!” I’m not holding my breath.

    I’m guessing that his opinion will change as soon as the 7500 tax credit is withdrawn.
    For some reason he thinks that the car should stand on it’s own merits. At that point his main objection is gone.

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  79. 79
    kdawg

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:25 pm)

    I’m seeing a pattern… Selling for $45K, producing 45K cars, .. CS MPG will be… 45 MPG…

    OK that’s pushing it.. its a Friday, TGIF!


  80. 80
    kdawg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:29 pm)

    benson: I’m not particularly bright, though I am a bunch cynical, so here’s a question to ponder; If the Volt is as popular as it appears to be, and the production increase sure does indicate it is, where is the incentive for GM to lower the price? Seems to me if you’re selling out at $41K, why would you drop the price? Maybe someone smarter than me cares to tackle this one.

    After all of the early adopters and people with 40K to spend are gone, the next generation will have to be lower in price to expand the Volt’s market.


  81. 81
    Timaaayyy!!!

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Timaaayyy!!!
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:34 pm)

    LeoK: The phone & email are buzzing today! Of the TEN customers I’ve spoken to today, 7 had never heard of the VOLT until this week. Several wanted to know if they could come test drive the car tomorrow. Apparently Chevrolet sent out an email blast to owners saying “Chevy Volt is ready to order”.Its going to be a long 4 or 5 months until we see the first one! But it will be fun…. and today’s news is just the start. They will have to ramp up production more…. and with increased production, pricing will come down.There are too many consumers who WANT to buy an American car that helps get us off foreign oil…. and yes, for some price will be an obstacle, but for many others, they will buy or lease and be VERY HAPPY.Look at it this way…. for every person willing to pay $41,000+ for a Gen 1 VOLT will help lower costs for Gen 2 as demand will continue to grow. So fan or foe, you should cheer every customer who is willing to step up and get in line to buy a VOLT today!  (Quote)

    Thanks, Leo. What is your allocation of Volts, and how many do you think you could sell or lease?

    Great to get some fresh data from you and CorvetteGuy. Please keep posting your observations!

    T


  82. 82
    Tagamet

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:43 pm)

    Just as another real world data point, I just got off the phone with the out-of-state dealership. I didn’t get the 19th spot as (I was told initially) 2 more slid in ahead of me. The real reason I was calling him was to get my deposit back and withdraw the order, but since I was talking “spots” with the guy, I asked how many had dropped off the list AHEAD of me. His response….. “NONE” (insert shock and awe). Maybe A) the $41K isn’t so scary, B) the lease is holding people, C ) it’s too soon for people to bail, or D ) he’s being disingenuous (though I don’t know how he’d gain from that). MAYBE other dealers are reporting the same pattern to GM and “encouraged” GM to ramp up a bit?
    Just thought that I’d “share”.

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  83. 83
    Timaaayyy!!!

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Timaaayyy!!!
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (4:56 pm)

    Tagamet: Just as another real world data point, I just got off the phone with the out-of-state dealership. I didn’t get the 19th spot as (I was told initially) 2 more slid in ahead of me. The real reason I was calling him was to get my deposit back and withdraw the order, but since I was talking “spots” with the guy, I asked how many had dropped off the list AHEAD of me. His response….. “NONE” (insert shock and awe). Maybe A) the $41K isn’t so scary, B) the lease is holding people, C ) it’s too soon for people to bail, or D ) he’s being disingenuous (though I don’t know how he’d gain from that). MAYBE other dealers are reporting the same pattern to GM and “encouraged” GM to ramp up a bit?Just thought that I’d “share”.Be well,Tagamet  (Quote)

    Thanks for the info. This is fun.


  84. 84
    JeffB

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JeffB
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:02 pm)

    john1701a:
    Just jump.Being trapped (no progress) isn’t appealing.It all boils down to SALES.That has been and will continue to be the measure of progress.A small number without influence on overall production or profit doesn’t actually accomplish anything.  

    GM naysayer on any news, part of a driving force for real change, auto industry guru that calls it the way he sees them, or simply just a “troll”. Your call…


  85. 85
    Steverino

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Steverino
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:10 pm)

    Jack Driskill: I support the marketing of an electric car that can provide an overall improvement in energy usage. However, I do not support having to subsidize people who can afford to buy a $40,000 vehicle with my tax dollars. (I’m still upset about the cash for clunkers program, since I know people that make over $200K per year that received $4,500 tax credits to buy new luxury vehicles.)  

    If we can subsidize oil companies (they seem to break profit records every year) why can’t we subsidize getting a new industry off the ground that also happens to help get us off oil and helps an industrial policy that keeps manufacturing jobs here?

    We subsidize banks by providing them with low cost money, we subsidize corporate farming, we subsidize sugar producers for heck’s sake.

    But when it comes to actually doing something except talk about getting off oil, suddenly we have to be 100% free market? That approach has been tried for 40 years. Now, with subsidies and tax incentives, we finally see some encouraging developments. We as a country either invest in moving forward or we will lose more jobs and more technology. You have to prime the pump. Incentives like the $7500 help.


  86. 86
    Sean

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Sean
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:23 pm)

    Finally that GM is using there head by increasing there production rate by 15,000 but I wouldn’t mind seeing production rates as much as 35,000 to 55,000 additional cars for production in the future 80,000 to 100,000 cars a year.


  87. 87
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:25 pm)

    Steverino: Jack Driskill: I support the marketing of an electric car that can provide an overall improvement in energy usage. However, I do not support having to subsidize people who can afford to buy a $40,000 vehicle with my tax dollars. (I’m still upset about the cash for clunkers program, since I know people that make over $200K per year that received $4,500 tax credits to buy new luxury vehicles.)

    If we can subsidize oil companies (they seem to break profit records every year) why can’t we subsidize getting a new industry off the ground that also happens to help get us off oil and helps an industrial policy that keeps manufacturing jobs here?

    We subsidize banks by providing them with low cost money, we subsidize corporate farming, we subsidize sugar producers for heck’s sake….

    Agreed, so let’s stop all those subsidies, rather than adding another injustice to the pile. JMO.
    (Not a *popular* opinion (g), but an honest one).

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  88. 88
    john1701a

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    john1701a
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:30 pm)

    JeffB: GM naysayer on any news, part of a driving force for real change, auto industry guru that calls it the way he sees them, or simply just a “troll”.

    Since calling anything outside of the status quo is considered trolling, I’ll point out that you cannot change the game unless you jump.


  89. 89
    William

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    William
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:35 pm)

    Sean: Finally that GM is using there head by increasing there production rate by 15,000 but I wouldn’t mind seeing production rates as much as 35,000 to 55,000 additional cars for production in the future 80,000 to 100,000 cars a year.

    Still not enough, IMO. If GM can build 300,000 Chevy Impalas per year at the Oshawa plant, they can do the same thing at Detroit-Hamtramck and more. Seriously! Put the Hamtramck plant’s Volt line on 24/7 operation and maximum overtime. Economies of scale must be taken advantage of to the full!

    The Volt is an exciting car, but the price needs to come down and the production volume needs to go WAY up!

    Did the Fusion become a hot seller by Ford producing just 10,000 in the first year, followed by a “slow ramp up?” I don’t think so!

    Wake up and smell the demand, GM execs! Cut the price and drastically increase volume! The Volt ain’t a Rolls-Royce; it’s supposed to go mainstream here!


  90. 90
    GM Volt Fan

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    GM Volt Fan
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:37 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: The “2011 VOLT Initial Ordering Workbook” is now available for download.http://www.allnewchevyvolt.com/Volt_workbook.pdfNothing in it said I could not post it for you guys. Enjoy!  

    That Volt workbook is good. Thanks. I guess now you can see why the Volt is going to be pricier than people were expecting. There’s a bunch of features in there I wasn’t aware of … things you see in mid size Buicks and Cadillacs.

    That’ll be cool if you can type in a destination on your iPhone or PC and send it straight to your Volt’s navigation system. You could type in (or say out loud) your destination, tell the Volt to turn on the A/C and then wait a minute or two for an alert from your iPhone to tell you the car is cooled down and you’re ready to roll. Of course, all of this done without the engine ever coming on because you’re plugged into an outlet.

    I’m also looking forward to having that “Timeshift Function” too like it says in the brochure.

    “The timeshift feature of the Volt audio system functions much like a Digital Video Recorder (DVR) for televisions. This “pause and play” feature lets you stop a live radio broadcast, record up to 20 minutes, and play it back later. So, if you missed the end of a football game
    while pumping gas or just want to hear a song again, this feature lets you do it. Content is stored on the embedded hard drive within the radio. Once you’ve recorded something, you can fast-forward and reverse playback as desired, just like a DVR.”

    God knows I love my DVR at home. Now I can have those same features in my car. Now you can listen to your AM/FM radio (or satellite radio) and skip through those annoying commercials by listening 20 minutes behind the “live” broadcast (timeshifting) if you are on a long trip. If you listen to talk radio sometime it gets really annoying having to listen to all those commercials. They must play 25 minutes of commercials per hour on some of those programs.


  91. 91
    Tagamet

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:49 pm)

    GM Volt Fan: That Volt workbook is good. Thanks. I guess now you can see why the Volt is going to be pricier than people were expecting. There’s a bunch of features in there I wasn’t aware of … things you see in mid size Buicks and Cadillacs.

    I’d forfeit the ability to talk to my Volt, if it was “comfortably under 30K”, and they had 20 for sale on the local lot.

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  92. 92
    America1st

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    America1st
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (5:53 pm)

    Kent, you’re very lucky. I’m getting the feeling their testing my income for a markup. I said no, hopefully they’ll get the picture. $45K is plenty for the car – I want the tax rebate at that price.

    I’m in. What’s the concensus on the color of choice? I’m thinking the viridian joule, assuming that is silver green.

    CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED!!!! Dear Middle-East oil barons, go %@##@ yourselves. The trench away from an annual $100 billion dollars lining your American hating pockets is beginning now.


  93. 93
    America1st

    -2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    America1st
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:00 pm)

    A famous book by a now sitting senator summed up the person – “Rush Limbaugh is a Big, Fat, Stupid Idiot.” NY Times bestseller for a reason. Hey Rush – Shut the %$# Up!


  94. 94
    jeffhre

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:01 pm)

    john1701a: On the surface, that flexibility appears good. Underneath, frequently changing plans are what compromised efforts of the past. Seeing repeats of pre-bankruptcy management behavior happened post-bankruptcy, especially when the competition didn’t and still doesn’t do that, is reason to be extra careful about expectations.

    Except for the fact that pre-bankruptcy decisions usually turned out to be the exact opposite of todays announcement, I completely agree with you.

    In the past GM in the face of falling sales would – continue production at dangerously high levels, increase fleet sales, increase incentives, create insanely low leases, and buy or lease more temporary storage facilities.

    Quickly ramping up for increased sales was not their strong suit.


  95. 95
    neutron

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    neutron
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:02 pm)

    You do not have to thank me for getting GM to decide to build more VOLTS…

    I ORDERED A VOLT THIS AFTERNOON..

    (It seems a lot of the dealers were left behind the learning curve until the announcement was made… They got a lot of training Wednesday and Thursday and I got a call Friday -today)

    The expected delivery will be in the Feb to April time frame…

    If the rumor about a HCCI generator engine turns out to be true….. a VOLT delivery will get pretty exciting!!!! :+}


  96. 96
    Randy

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Randy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:02 pm)

    Mark Bartosik: I’ve spoken with a dealer asking for $5000 markup over MSRP.
    GM doesn’t get any of that $5000.
    But if GM increases volume they get more $, and the markup the dealers can charge is less, and we at gm-volt.com may be able to afford one.
    All good news.  

    So i would suggest that NO ONE even consider buying a Volt from a dealer adding $5000 to the MSRP he will soon get some manners and sell at MSRP which already has a healthy profit included.


  97. 97
    Dave K.

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave K.
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:02 pm)

    Tagamet: I’d forfeit the ability to talk to my Volt, if it was “comfortably under 30K”, and they had 20 for sale on the local lot.

    This will be a great topic down the road. Depending on how sales of the 2011 go. GM may menu the Volt down a bit. This will show positive intent on the part of GM to meet the expectations of Chevy buyers. I believe a more conventional (Cruze type) display may work as well. Time will tell. We here at gm volt dot com are used to waiting.

    =D-Volt

    Cruze photos:

    chevy-cruze-interior.jpg

    Cruze R3:

    chevy.cruze.r3.jpg


  98. 98
    DonC

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:03 pm)

    Tagamet: Last week he bought his entire staff Iphones (latest version) because he admires high tech – especially Apple products (no he doesn’t have stock in it). The blogger states that he “singled out” the Volt which is simply inaccurate (he rails against the leaf for the same reason as the Volt = the tax rebate.

    Actually Rush doesn’t dislike government subsidies, he just selectively dislikes those he thinks go to people who don’t support his views or listen to him. For example, you don’t see him criticizing the government for giving away radio spectrum to the stations that carry his show. That would be intellectually honest but it wouldn’t make him any money. And since he likes all those iPhones, I’m thinking he doesn’t rant and rave about the hundreds of billions in spectrum that the FCC gave away to the phone companies. (Worked great for me but I’m not complaining).

    When he starts going after Social Security recipients (who make up most of his audience) for sucking down all the government benefits that they never paid for, or when he goes after those who accept Medicare benefits that they’ve never remotely paid for, let me know.

    FWIW, the amount of fraud in Medicare in one year would pay for the $7500 tax credit he finds so objectionable for 9,866,666 EVs. But that would mean ranting about the doctors who wrote all his prescriptions for “pain medication” so we’re probably not going to hear about that. :-)


  99. 99
    Kup

    +6

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Kup
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:03 pm)

    ronr64: That’s awesome news! Maybe it will help soothe some of the hurt feelings over the $41K sticker shock some have.I’m a Rush Limbaugh fan and today he blasted the Volt again. Now I know how kids feel when their parents fight…  (Quote)

    I was once a Rush fan but he would now call me a “seminar caller” even though I have not yet voted for a Dem. I’m not for big government but if you examine Rush’s analysis on Clinton (a DLC type Dem) and Obama (also a DLC type although perhaps farther left than Clinton) it shows how utterly out of touch Rush is.

    I didn’t hear him trash the Volt but I have heard him trash the Prius and his ignorance on AGW is breathtaking. His standard shtick about “we couldn’t change the climate if we wanted to” attitude just is amazing and utterly devoid of scientific thought. Count me as one “conservative” who thinks that Rush hurts “our” cause of limited government.

    It always bugged me when the left would claim that they are the “reality based community” but regarding the Volt, the Prius and AGW I must concede they have a point in relationship to Rush.


  100. 100
    nasaman

    +8

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    nasaman
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:04 pm)

    Steverino, post #85:
    If we can subsidize oil companies (they seem to break profit records every year) why can’t we subsidize getting a new industry off the ground that also happens to help get us off oil and helps an industrial policy that keeps manufacturing jobs here? We subsidize banks by providing them with low cost money, we subsidize corporate farming, we subsidize sugar producers for heck’s sake.
    But when it comes to actually doing something except talk about getting off oil, suddenly we have to be 100% free market? That approach has been tried for 40 years. Now, with subsidies and tax incentives, we finally see some encouraging developments. We as a country either invest in moving forward or we will lose more jobs and more technology. You have to prime the pump. Incentives like the $7500 help.  

    BULLSEYE, Steve! I couldn’t agree more!

    /…and I’m amused to see I scored a “100″ for agreeing!


  101. 101
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:04 pm)

    America1st: A famous book by a now sitting senator summed up the person – “Rush Limbaugh is a Big, Fat, Stupid Idiot.”NY Times bestseller for a reason.Hey Rush – Shut the %$# Up!  

    You forgot the “JMO” part (g).

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  102. 102
    BLDude

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BLDude
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:06 pm)

    DonC:
    The peasants are OK. It’s that you can’t tell who the armed nuts are. Another couple of inches and Reagan would have been a half term president.  

    Reagan was in office only 69 days when he was shot.

    No matter who’s President, the SS tries its best to keep them safe.


  103. 103
    BLDude

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BLDude
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:11 pm)

    Brian: I especially like the way Gm said thanks for the bailout money and by the way we will take your 7500 dollar rebate money and the tax for all the development work we did.41k per copy that’s obscene~!! And all those UAW folks and stock holders that got stiffed when GM went belly upbut better days are ahead??  

    No matter what GM does, they will never please all their critics.


  104. 104
    neutron

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    neutron
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:11 pm)

    Regarding when the VOLT price may drop….

    #66 Benson

    “I’m not particularly bright, though I am a bunch cynical, so here’s a question to ponder; If the Volt is as popular as it appears to be, and the production increase sure does indicate it is, where is the incentive for GM to lower the price? Seems to me if you’re selling out at $41K, why would you drop the price? Maybe someone smarter than me cares to tackle this one.”

    I believe it is simple Supply and Demand.
    GM picked a high “fishing” number.
    If they sell cars that price will be valid for awhile.
    When the Government rebate is gone I would expect at least a 7,500 dollar price drop fairly quickly if they want to keep selling this car.


  105. 105
    Tagamet

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:13 pm)

    BLDude:
    No matter what GM does, they will never please all their critics.  

    You got that right!
    Be well,
    Tagamet


  106. 106
    BLDude

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    BLDude
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:14 pm)

    BLDude:
    No matter what GM does, they will never please all their critics. “The Volt is priced too high!”, they are stiffing the car buyers… “the Volt is priced too low!” they are loosing the taxpayers money…. “All this is window dressing for their IPO”…etc. etc., blah blah blah.  


  107. 107
    jeffhre

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:14 pm)

    William: Wake up and smell the demand, GM execs! Cut the price and drastically increase volume! The Volt ain’t a Rolls-Royce; it’s supposed to go mainstream here! 

    I tend to agree with that sentiment. Though for comparison if you haven’t been shopping for one recently.

    Car – Base Price – Destination charge

    Volt -41,000 - Included

    Rolls-Royce Ghost – 245,000 – 2000

    Rolls-Royce Phantom – 380,000 – 450,000 - 2000

    Rolls-Royce Phantom Drophead Coupe
    434,000 – 443,000 – 2000

    …and for good measure options – Individual Leather Colors (One-Off, New Development)
    $12,040


  108. 108
    LeoK

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LeoK
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:16 pm)

    Timaaayyy!!!: Thanks, Leo. What is your allocation of Volts, and how many do you think you could sell or lease?Great to get some fresh data from you and CorvetteGuy. Please keep posting your observations!T  (Quote)

    Allocation is 6 + our demo through June 2011. I expect to see maybe 6-9 more from July 2011-Dec 2011. I honestly believe we could sell 4 to 8 times that number without much trouble.

    Call me crazy, but we have committed to sell our allocation just to customers from our market area, primarily Fairfield County, CT and Westchester County, NY. There is more than enough demand, and we want to stay engaged with our early customers to keep tabs on their experience. Plus, if we get our service staff all geared up and trained, they’d like to see a VOLT roll in once in a while for a quick visit (since the cars will have very high reliability, we just want to buy our customers a cup of coffee and talk electric driving!)


  109. 109
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:18 pm)

    DonC:
    Actually Rush doesn’t dislike government subsidies, he just selectively dislikes those he thinks go to people who don’t support his views or listen to him. For example,you don’t see him criticizing the government for giving away radio spectrum to the stations that carry his show. That would be intellectually honest but it wouldn’t make him any money. And since he likes all those iPhones, I’m thinking he doesn’t rant and rave about the hundreds of billions in spectrum that the FCC gave away to the phone companies. (Worked great for me but I’m not complaining).When he starts going after recipients (who make up most of his audience) for sucking down all the government benefits that they never paid for, or when he goes after those who accept Medicare benefits that they’ve never remotely paid for, let me know.FWIW, the amount of fraud in Medicare in one year would pay for the $7500 tax credit he finds so objectionable for 9,866,666 EVs. But that would mean ranting about the doctors who wrote all his prescriptions for “pain medication” so we’re probably not going to hear about that.   

    So you listen to Rush regularly? That’s a beating your wife question, DonC. If you do, my GOD where’s you taste? If you don’t, then that explains the character assassination (which really surprised me, from you).
    Be well,
    Tagamet


  110. 110
    Timaaayyy!!!

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Timaaayyy!!!
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:18 pm)

    neutron: I ORDERED A VOLT THIS AFTERNOON..

    Cool!

    Hey Lyle, it would be great if you started a Volt order ticker–x # of leased Volts and y # of purchased ones, or similar, by the readers here. Your Want List was fun and maybe even influential, but now that the Volt is for sale, an Order List would be neat, too. Thanks.

    Oh, and a Volt resale section…(maybe you can collect a commish)

    T


  111. 111
    LeoK

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LeoK
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:20 pm)

    Tagamet: Just as another real world data point, I just got off the phone with the out-of-state dealership. I didn’t get the 19th spot as (I was told initially) 2 more slid in ahead of me. The real reason I was calling him was to get my deposit back and withdraw the order, but since I was talking “spots” with the guy, I asked how many had dropped off the list AHEAD of me. His response….. “NONE” (insert shock and awe). Maybe A) the $41K isn’t so scary, B) the lease is holding people, C ) it’s too soon for people to bail, or D ) he’s being disingenuous (though I don’t know how he’d gain from that). MAYBE other dealers are reporting the same pattern to GM and “encouraged” GM to ramp up a bit?Just thought that I’d “share”.Be well,Tagamet  (Quote)

    I spoke to no less than 10 customers today – in person, on the phone and via email – about the VOLT. SEVEN of them had not even heard about the VOLT until this week! This car will appeal to the masses – agreed, maybe not at this price point – but the concept is there and the Gen1 VOLT will prove out the theory that VOLTec powertrains will work. GM will continue to ramp up production … as well as explore additional models to offer with voltec.

    The electric train has left the station and its downhill from here!


  112. 112
    neutron

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    neutron
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:26 pm)

    Steverino: from Wall Street Journal:Of the Volt Limbaugh said, “Nobody wants this.” He attacked everything from the federal bailout of Chevy’s parent General Motors Corp. to the supposed superiority complex of people who would buy electric or hybrid cars.http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/07/30/rush-limbaughs-tough-talk-is-chevys-volt-a-non-starter/  

    HEY…… if RUSH thinks I have a superiority complex ???????
    WELL all I can say is THANKS!!!! “Works for me!”

    I have driven a Prius Hybrid for 4 years already and now want to drive a VOLT. Both are engineering winners.

    SO if he thinks these cars are non-starters I assume one has to consider the source.

    REMEMBER …. Rush has stated more than once he is an “entertainer” … so he will say anything that will get folks “riled” to listen.

    If one really wants to get upset and still listen when you know the score …. then enjoy the noise. :=]


  113. 113
    neutron

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    neutron
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:27 pm)

    edvard: You know…. that’s good news but…. What the hell? There’s that many people willing to shell out $40k for a Chevrolet?  

    Looks like 45,000 so far… :+}


  114. 114
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:29 pm)

    America1st: Kent, you’re very lucky. I’m getting the feeling their testing my income for a markup. I said no, hopefully they’ll get the picture. $45K is plenty for the car – I want the tax rebate at that price.
    I’m in. What’s the concensus on the color of choice? I’m thinking the viridian joule, assuming that is silver green.
    CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED!!!! Dear Middle-East oil barons, go %@##@ yourselves. The trench away from an annual $100 billion dollars lining your American hating pockets is beginning now.

    I think if you like silver you will really like Viridian Joule. I saw it a the LA Auto show and it was really nice. Doesn’t photograph nearly as well as it looks in person though. I’d like to see a black one for comparison myself.

    Good luck, and walk away if the dealer won’t budge.


  115. 115
    DonC

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (6:57 pm)

    Tagamet: So you listen to Rush regularly?

    Got me. Actually I used to listen from time to time for the entertainment aspect but at some point he went too negative. The chippy remarks about his substance abuse issues are, IMHO, so fair because Rush is so in favor of incarcerating every person of color for their substance abuse problems. I have heard him go off about how all the “crack heads” should be locked up, so a few remarks about his criminal behavior don’t seem out of line. Something about people living in glass houses being ill advised to throw stones.

    It’s like the guy running around the country railing about homosexuals who was outed last month for paying for a “rent boy” who he took on vacation with him. On one hand you could find it amusing, which I guess it is, but attacking people for doing the same thing you’re doing just strikes me as wrong. A little empathy would go a long way. Or, in Rush’s case, is it so wrong that what goes around comes around? Or alternatively stated, is is so wrong to apply the standards of behavior which he demands of others be applied to him?

    Which doesn’t make him wrong about government incentives BTW. He’s wrong about that for completely different reasons.


  116. 116
    JEC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JEC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:04 pm)

    DonC: FWIW, the amount of fraud in Medicare in one year would pay for the $7500 tax credit he finds so objectionable for 9,866,666 EVs. But that would mean ranting about the doctors who wrote all his prescriptions for “pain medication” so we’re probably not going to hear about that.

    $74 billion?

    Come on lets keep it real Don.


  117. 117
    Michael

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Michael
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:04 pm)

    Tagamet:
    I’d forfeit the ability to talk to my Volt, if it was “comfortably under 30K”, and they had 20 for sale on the local lot.Be well, Tagamet  

    So the question is, “do you get more strange looks while talking to yourself or talking to your Volt?” Think about it, it might be worth it. ;-)


  118. 118
    CorvetteGuy

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:05 pm)

    Randy: So i would suggest that NO ONE even consider buying a Volt from a dealer adding $5000 to the MSRP he will soon get some manners and sell at MSRP which already has a healthy profit included.

    How do you know what the profit is? I can’t even get that until a car is received and we have an Invoice. And what do you consider ‘healthy profit’? Especially since the dealer has to spend a bunch of money up front for service personnel training, special tools, and a VOLT that we can’t even sell. It has to stay in the showroom and be made available for test drives. We will be lucky to break even after selling the first 10.


  119. 119
    Sonoma Richard

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Sonoma Richard
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:09 pm)

    I put my order in for a new Volt this morning…all leather and the electric blue/green. I can never remember what that color is called. I hope to be one of the first 4500 so I can get a free charging station installed in my garage. The dealer assured me that the price would be sticker, period. I haven’t paid for electricity in over two years thanks to our solar installation. I’m ready!!!!!


  120. 120
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:10 pm)

    DonC:
    I used to listen from time to time for the entertainment aspect but at some point he went too negative. The chippy remarks about his substance abuse issues are, IMHO, so fair because Rush is so in favor of incarcerating every person of color for their substance abuse problems. I have heard him go off about how all the “crack heads” should be locked up, so a few remarks about his criminal behavior don’t seem out of line. Something about people living in glass houses being ill advised to throw stones.It’s like the guy running around the country railing about homosexuals who was outed last month for paying for a “rent boy” who he took on vacation with him. On one hand you could find it amusing, which I guess it is, but attacking people for doing the same thing you’re doing just strikes me as wrong. A little empathy would go a long way. Or, in Rush’s case, is it so wrong that what goes around comes around? Or alternatively stated, is is so wrong to apply the standards of behavior which he demands of others be applied to him?Which doesn’t make him wrong about government incentives BTW. He’s wrong about that for completely different reasons.  

    I suspect that we aren’t listening to the same person. The Rush I hear has an acknowledged drug addiction, for which he received (-s?) treatment. He pays for his own medical care and doesn’t suck on the govt teat (which seems so important to some) – nor will he collect social security. I’ve NEVER heard him talk about crack-heads, nor their arrest. He has the same policy as Obama re gays – civil unions, not marriage, but he does disparage them a *lot*. I don’t really think that any minds will change by citing the facts, so how about we go back to common ground and talk about the Volt?

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  121. 121
    DonC

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:18 pm)

    neutron: When the Government rebate is gone I would expect at least a 7,500 dollar price drop fairly quickly if they want to keep selling this car. 

    The Volt can’t be priced at a 30% premium to the Leaf. Maybe 15% but not 30%. It’s too big a gap.

    Both Nissan and GM will have to ramp up the numbers in order to get the price down so the price without the rebates are competitive with conventional vehicles. However, in addition, GM has to whittle down the price differential vis-a-vis the Leaf. Right now it’s too big. This may not prove decisive in the immediate future given the limited number of EVs available and the perception that the range limitations of BEVs will be a problem, but it will be shortly as there is more competition and choices and people begin to adapt and figure out that range limitations are not such a big issue.

    As I pointed out earlier, for the price difference between a Leaf and a Volt I could rent a car that got better mileage for at least 232 days. That’s a lot of rentals. (For the last couple of months both my wife and I have been keeping logs of the miles we drive and, so far, we’ve never exceeded more than about 60 miles).


  122. 122
    Dave K.

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave K.
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:18 pm)

    jeffhre: if you like silver you will really like Viridian Joule

    The L.A. Auto Show Volt really looked good up close. I believe the Viridian Joule color is for the Volt only.

    =D-Volt

    BTW:Looks like the “wheel” option does not include going with 18′s. Had a feeling this would be the case. As it will cost CS MPG and electric range. The owner can communicate with their Volt via smart phone, laptop, or home/work PC at a designated Volt page.

    L.A. Auto Show photo:

    LA%20Volt%20023%20big.jpg


  123. 123
    JEC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    JEC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:20 pm)

    JEC:
    $74 billion?Come on lets keep it real Don.  

    Yes you can Wiki anything. Looks like you pulled this right out of Wiki.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_fraud

    The federal government does not keep track of the total amount of Medicare fraud. But if the Medicare budget is $368 billion, and 20% of all Medicare bills are fraudulent, then the total amount of fraud is an estimated $74 billion per year.[1]

    Anyway, the IF should be understood.
    “If dogs shit bricks, we wouldn’t need brick factories”


  124. 124
    Sonoma Richard

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Sonoma Richard
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:22 pm)

    JEC:
    $74 billion?Come on lets keep it real Don.  

    That number is probably low. The Goverment uses a $100 Billion number for annual Medicare fraud.


  125. 125
    kdawg

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:29 pm)

    john1701a: Just jump. Being trapped (no progress) isn’t appealing.
    It all boils down to SALES.
    That has been and will continue to be the measure of progress. A small number without influence on overall production or profit doesn’t actually accomplish anything.

    How many space shuttle sales did getting a man to the moon produce?


  126. 126
    Joe Fidurga

    +5

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Joe Fidurga
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:36 pm)

    Just put $1000.00 down and ordered my Volt in upstate NY and was told I was first on the list to get one at this dealership. I was assured that there would be no increase over MSRP. The 41K price announcement bothered me until I realized that if they had priced it at 37K with a to consumer price (after rebate) of 29,500 we would all be thrilled. The extra 4K does not seem such a high price to pay for the car we have all been anticipating for all these many months. Besides We all seem to accept that GM will either break even or make very little at the 41K price – I.E. Its worth it!!!!


  127. 127
    The grump

    -1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    The grump
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:39 pm)

    I AM CALLING A GM VOLT RED ALERT !

    I just got off the phone with the IRS, and found out that the $7500.00 tax credit, which was supposed to reduce the $41,000.00 price of the Volt, will apply to very few taxpayers. Most who do quality will not get the full tax credit.
    ———————————————————————————————
    1) It is a NON-DEDUCTABLE tax credit. This means you can use it to reduce your tax bill, but that’s it. It CAN reduce your tax debt, but it cannot generate or increase a tax rebate. All it does is reduce your tax debt. You’re not going to get a $7500.00 rebate check

    2) You must file a full 1040 form to claim the tax credit. It goes on line 53 of the 1040 form.

    3) You can only claim the full $7500.00 tax credit IF you file as a business. Individual taxpayers only qualify for a $2500.00 tax credit.

    4) If you lease the Volt, you get NO tax credit. NONE. The credit can be claimed by the company that leases the car – that would be GM, not you.

    So GM gets the gold mine, while the taxpayer gets the shaft. I don’t even qualify for the $2,500.00 tax credit


  128. 128
    kdawg

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:39 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: How do you know what the profit is? I can’t even get that until a car is received and we have an Invoice. And what do you consider ‘healthy profit’? Especially since the dealer has to spend a bunch of money up front for service personnel training, special tools, and a VOLT that we can’t even sell. It has to stay in the showroom and be made available for test drives. We will be lucky to break even after selling the first 10.

    At least it should attract a lot of ppl to your dealership.. so there is that benefit to it.


  129. 129
    DonC

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:44 pm)

    Tagamet: The Rush I hear has an acknowledged drug addiction, for which he received (-s?) treatment.

    Maybe you never knew the old Rush. At least before his arrest Rush was adamant that people who used drugs do jail time. A sample:

    These tough sentencing laws were instituted for a reason. The American people, including liberals, demanded them. Don’t you remember the crack cocaine epidemic? Crack babies and out-of-control murder rates? Liberal judges giving the bad guys slaps on the wrist? Finally we got tough, and the crime rate has been falling ever since, so what’s wrong?

    For more examples see http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1159 Maybe he warmed to the liberal “slap on the wrist” approach after his arrest. In any event, it’s good that he’s acknowledged his problem but that doesn’t vitiate the point that in his world there are different sets of rules for different people, the lead examples of which would be Volt owners or radio station owners or cell phone operators.


  130. 130
    Dave K.

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave K.
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:45 pm)

    The grump: I just got off the phone with the IRS, and found…

    Thanks for the update grump. The contributors here at gm volt dot com have turned into a big family. We all love Lyle like a brother. And hope the Volt soon has brothers as well.

    =D-Volt

    LA%20Volt%20026.jpg


  131. 131
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:47 pm)

    Joe Fidurga: Just put $1000.00 down and ordered my Volt in upstate NY and was told I was first on the list to get one at this dealership. I was assured that there would be no increase over MSRP.The 41K price announcement bothered me until I realized that if they had priced it at 37K with a to consumer price (after rebate) of 29,500 we would all be thrilled. The extra 4K does not seem such a high price to pay for the car we have all been anticipating for all these many months. Besides We all seem to accept that GM will either break even or make very little at the 41K price – I.E. Its worth it!!!!  

    Congrats! Keep us posted.
    Maybe it’s time to start a pool guessing who will get the first real wheels in their driveway – and when.

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  132. 132
    kdawg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:54 pm)

    GM Volt Fan: That’ll be cool if you can type in a destination on your iPhone or PC and send it straight to your Volt’s navigation system. You could type in (or say out loud) your destination

    OnStar is set up to be a handsfree system (other than pushing the OnStar button once). You just talk to the operator and she downloads your directions directly to your nav system.


  133. 133
    Texas

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Texas
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:54 pm)

    Rashiid Amul:
    …..or further mileage increase in CS mode and a lower price.   

    You want a bigger gas tank? Why not just fit an extra tank in yourself or carry gas cans?

    Unless you are hoping for more mpg in highway CS mode. Then, forget it. As I keep saying, it’s all in the energy transitions. If you want better mileage on the highway, get a new diesel from VW or similar advanced diesel model.


  134. 134
    DaveP

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DaveP
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:54 pm)

    Well, this is great news. I now we are all grousing about the price but the simple fact is the technology has to start somewhere and it has to make a profit. The more profit, the more incentive for the companies to do things like it. I was worried that GM wasn’t going to price the vehicle high enough to make a profit and therefore would artificially limit production to limit losses on the vehicle. With an announcement this early about bumping production it seems that’s definitely not the case.

    I know one scenario would be for them to sell the early volts at a loss and make it up through volume. That’s a tough road unless the loss is NRE then OK, but if you lose money on actually MAKING each one, then it’s definitely a risky strategy. Might pay off, but more often than not, not. :) (original XBOX, PS3, etc. These were priced below cost with the hope to make it up on games and were devastating to the bottom lines of the companies involved. Well, except for Microsoft I suppose has so much money it really didn’t matter to the bottom line but even THEY learned their lesson and didn’t repeat that strategy with the 360).
    Anyway, if GM can command a decent volume and a profit on each vehicle made, then they (with almost absolute certainty) will continue down this path and very likely other manufacturers will follow. It’s better for long term viability of Voltec/EREV, I think.

    Still I wish they’d ramp up sooner. That rumor we heard a long time ago that they were actually battery limited in 2011 is sounding like it may be the case.


  135. 135
    kdawg

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (7:57 pm)

    William: Still not enough, IMO. If GM can build 300,000 Chevy Impalas per year at the Oshawa plant, they can do the same thing at Detroit-Hamtramck and more. Seriously! Put the Hamtramck plant’s Volt line on 24/7 operation and maximum overtime. Economies of scale must be taken advantage of to the full!
    The Volt is an exciting car, but the price needs to come down and the production volume needs to go WAY up!
    Did the Fusion become a hot seller by Ford producing just 10,000 in the first year, followed by a “slow ramp up?” I don’t think so!
    Wake up and smell the demand, GM execs! Cut the price and drastically increase volume! The Volt ain’t a Rolls-Royce; it’s supposed to go mainstream here!

    There may be a problem w/battery supply. I dont know how may batteries the LG plant can crank out, or the Brownstown plant can assemble.


  136. 136
    DonC

    +4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:00 pm)

    The grump: I just got off the phone with the IRS, and found out that the $7500.00 tax credit, which was supposed to reduce the $41,000.00 price of the Volt, will apply to very few taxpayers. Most who do quality will not get the full tax credit.
    ———————————————————————————————
    1) It is a NON-DEDUCTABLE tax credit. This means you can use it to reduce your tax bill, but that’s it. It CAN reduce your tax debt, but it cannot generate or increase a tax rebate. All it does is reduce your tax debt. You’re not going to get a $7500.00 rebate check
    2) You must file a full 1040 form to claim the tax credit. It goes on line 53 of the 1040 form.
    3) You can only claim the full $7500.00 tax credit IF you file as a business. Individual taxpayers only qualify for a $2500.00 tax credit.
    4) If you lease the Volt, you get NO tax credit. NONE. The credit can be claimed by the company that leases the car – that would be GM, not you.
    So GM gets the gold mine, while the taxpayer gets the shaft. I don’t even qualify for the $2,500.00 tax credit  

    I didn’t know the IRS worked so late outside tax season. Maybe that’s why the conversation went so sideways:

    1. A tax credit is not the same as a tax rebate
    2. You have to file Form 8834. No idea what line that rolls up to.
    3. Crazy — Form 8834 is for an individual and Form 3800 is for a business. You can get the full $7500 as an individual and it’s not subject to AMT, unlike the earlier credits (and for a car priced at $45K that’s a good thing since if you’re not subject to the AMT maybe you shouldn’t be buying one — only kidding).
    4. Of course you don’t get the credit if you lease. The leasing company gets it because they own the car and you’re leasing it. But you get ALL the benefit of the credit because your Capitalized Cost of the car is reduced by $7500. And you get this benefit immediately. No waiting until you file. If you could also claim the credit you’d be getting two credits worth $15,000.

    Bottom line: If you’re worried about not being able to take advantage of the credit, or if you’re intimidated by the filling process, just lease the thing. You’ll get 100% of the benefit without any of the hassle.


  137. 137
    CorvetteGuy

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:00 pm)

    The grump: So GM gets the gold mine, while the taxpayer gets the shaft. I don’t even qualify for the $2,500.00 tax credit

    The $2,500 for Individuals and $7,500 for a business IS new information. I had not heard that. It does make me wonder how they are doing the $350 per month lease if an individual only gets $2,500 — or, does GM get the full $7,500 as the Lessee? Must be.

    That lease program is looking better and better. And if you WANT to buy the VOLT at the end of the lease, there is nothing stopping you. Just use the 36 months to start saving up for a bigger downpayment. That’s what I think I will do.


  138. 138
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:02 pm)

    DonC: …For more examples see http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1159 Maybe he warmed to the liberal “slap on the wrist” approach after his arrest. In any event, it’s good that he’s acknowledged his problem but that doesn’t vitiate the point that in his world there are different sets of rules for different people, the lead examples of which would be Volt owners or radio station owners or cell phone operators.

    LOL, the most current opinion you can collect in print is from 15 *years* ago? On a more serious note, you are correct that he *has* calmed down considerably since therapy. I know I’ve changed over the past 15 years. How ’bout you?
    Let me repeat – I don’t share a lot of his views! I posted about him only when he’s been mis-characterized by people who *can’t* have been listening to him. I’d defend NPR (or Obama) just as vigorously, if someone did the same to them (him). In fact I STARTED criticizing him 3 days ago when he ranted about the leaf and Volt!
    Now back to the Volt??? People are actually reporting that they will be GETTING them ordered!
    Be well,
    Tagamet


  139. 139
    kdawg

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:03 pm)

    Jack Driskill: I support the marketing of an electric car that can provide an overall improvement in energy usage. However, I do not support having to subsidize people who can afford to buy a $40,000 vehicle with my tax dollars. (I’m still upset about the cash for clunkers program, since I know people that make over $200K per year that received $4,500 tax credits to buy new luxury vehicles.)

    Would it be any better if they gave a $16,000 tax credit so the Volt only cost $25,000, and people that could afford a $25K car could buy it? I guess I dont really look at it as “Rich people getting free money”. I see it as the government investing in the technology. Also, there are probably people that cannot afford a $41K car, but can afford a $33.5K car, or a $350/mo lease.


  140. 140
    Texas

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Texas
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:04 pm)

    Noah Nehm: I’m really surprised and pleased that there seems to be so much demand for the Volt, even with it being priced so high.That will be good for GM because it will mean that they will not be operating at the kind of loss that Toyota had when they introduced the Prius.This will enable it to maintain the kind of R&D budget necessary to drive down the cost of the next generation Volt.  

    I believe the demand will be for the lease, not buying the car. With the way it’s priced, you would be foolish to buy it over the lease. The lease is almost like driving a normal car (getting the EV for free).

    I think this is a great idea to force the lease for the first year or so with such a new technology. This way if things go bad, they can just pull back the units, refurbish them with new battery technology and resell them (all done on a large scale). They don’t have to worry about every owner coming back in 7.5 years with legitimate reasons to get new batteries (on GM’s bill).


  141. 141
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:10 pm)

    kdawg: There may be a problem w/battery supply. I dont know how may batteries the LG plant can crank out, or the Brownstown plant can assemble. 

    You may be right but Nissan has said its battery plant will be able to produce 250K packs a year with 24 kWh in each pack. It’s also said it will sell to other manufacturers. Maybe GM can get some extra capacity there?

    A little more seriously, nothing wrong with 45K units a year in 2012. But ultimately GM needs to get to 500K worldwide units a year.


  142. 142
    Pat

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Pat
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:18 pm)

    Surprise surprise folks expect GM to price the Volt for the masses & take loss on each Volt sold? GM is trying to shoot for IPO this year if they show losses how do u think it is going to set for the investors … IMO there is enough pent up demand for the Volt in US & Canada that it will be sold out ..whatever production levels GM decides … barring a major technical snafu … GM is being very careful & taking their time to bring Volt into the market .. Hope it pans out for GM & this revolutionary Volt concept takes hold in US to wean itself of the oil OR reduce it considerably ..It seems that some environmental considerations are taking hold in the concious mind of Americans after this Gulf debacle & the damage it has caused ..


  143. 143
    DonC

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:20 pm)

    Pat: GM is trying to shoot for IPO this year if they show losses how do u think it is going to set for the investors …

    Yeah, investors always demand profitability, which is why Tesla had to show how profitable it has been …


  144. 144
    KUD

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    KUD
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:21 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: The “2011 VOLT Initial Ordering Workbook” is now available for download.http://www.allnewchevyvolt.com/Volt_workbook.pdfNothing in it said I could not post it for you guys. Enjoy!  

    Thanks great reading. On your site you mention 39mpg where did that come from?


  145. 145
    kdawg

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    kdawg
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:27 pm)

    DonC: You may be right but Nissan has said its battery plant will be able to produce 250K packs a year with 24 kWh in each pack. It’s also said it will sell to other manufacturers. Maybe GM can get some extra capacity there?
    A little more seriously, nothing wrong with 45K units a year in 2012. But ultimately GM needs to get to 500K worldwide units a year.

    I hope they do, along w/all the other carmakers. Not only to advance the industry, but everytime a car company retools a US/Canada/Mexico plant, that means more business for my company.


  146. 146
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:33 pm)

    Just so I’m clear, didn’t the car dealers here say that the actual lease would be closer to $450/month?
    TIA.
    Be well,
    Tagamet


  147. 147
    Charlie H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (8:59 pm)

    DonC: Maybe you never knew the old Rush. At least before his arrest Rush was adamant that people who used drugs do jail time. A sample:These tough sentencing laws were instituted for a reason. The American people, including liberals, demanded them. Don’t you remember the crack cocaine epidemic? Crack babies and out-of-control murder rates? Liberal judges giving the bad guys slaps on the wrist? Finally we got tough, and the crime rate has been falling ever since, so what’s wrong? For more examples see http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1159 Maybe he warmed to the liberal “slap on the wrist” approach after his arrest. In any event, it’s good that he’s acknowledged his problem but that doesn’t vitiate the point that in his world there are different sets of rules for different people, the lead examples of which would be Volt owners or radio station owners or cell phone operators.  (Quote)

    Rush is a Chicken Hawk. It’s reason enough for me to rate his credibility at zero.


  148. 148
    Charlie H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:01 pm)

    Texas: You want a bigger gas tank? Why not just fit an extra tank in yourself or carry gas cans?Unless you are hoping for more mpg in highway CS mode. Then, forget it. As I keep saying, it’s all in the energy transitions. If you want better mileage on the highway, get a new diesel from VW or similar advanced diesel model.  (Quote)

    In the event of an accident, do you really want gas cans flying around the interior of your vehicle?


  149. 149
    no comment

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    no comment
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:03 pm)

    an auction is pretty much what is happening. i called a dealer in michigan to inquire about how to order a volt and was told that they had not received any information about how to place an order for a volt (the dealer was on the volt dealer list). the dealer offered to take my telephone number and email address and would “keep me posted”. he said that the dealership would get 3 volt cars and could sell 2. i’m thinking to myself, “this guy is trying to compile a list so that he can auction off the 2 cars that they will have for sale.” as to any proceeds above msrp…you’re dreaming if you think that the dealers are going to give excess profits to some (non-profit) charity – any excess will go directly to the dealer’s bottom line.

    i don’t fault gm for pricing the volt at $41,000 msrp. they could have priced it at $31,000 msrp and it probably would have had little impact on the price that buyers ultimately will pay. given those circumstances, gm might as well price the vehicle to take a cut of the action instead of letting the dealers have it all.

    ronr64: If I was a dealer I would consider having an ongoing auction for the first one with the proceeds above MSRP going to a local charity.I would keep the auction going right up to the delivery of the dealerships first Volt.Good advertising and PR.Allows everyone to know that you are only going to take MSRP yet you allow someone with deep pockets to get one by paying through the nose and helping out a charity.Seems like a win – win – win.  


  150. 150
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:10 pm)

    You should have heard how Rush dissed the Prius, years ago. His treatment of the Volt was relatively mild, by comparison

    Rush is a “Government Motors*” troll, except he has a radio network instead of a forum to post in.

    * “Obama Motors,” actually


  151. 151
    Steve

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Steve
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:14 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: How do you know what the profit is? I can’t even get that until a car is received and we have an Invoice. And what do you consider ‘healthy profit’? Especially since the dealer has to spend a bunch of money up front for service personnel training, special tools, and a VOLT that we can’t even sell. It has to stay in the showroom and be made available for test drives. We will be lucky to break even after selling the first 10.  (Quote)

    I’d guess you figure you’ll eventually sell more than ten. When I went into business I don’t think I broke even after my first 10 customers taking my initial investment into account.


  152. 152
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:18 pm)

    JeffB: GM naysayer on any news, part of a driving force for real change, auto industry guru that calls it the way he sees them, or simply just a “troll”. Your call…

    Troll. Definitely Troll.

    john1701a: Just jump.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSyB5xSo2U


  153. 153
    America1st

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    America1st
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:19 pm)

    All this talk of fraud. Just consider, the real fraud is the fact that this great nation sends $100,000,000,000,000.00 dollars overseas every year for oil to Saudi (remember 9/11?), Hugo Chavez, Iran, Iraq, and every other country that despises us all the while taking our hard earned cash. Soon, oil will be at $200 a barrel. Everyone who buys this car will have the press lining up kissing their a__ soon.

    I’m in. Thank God we finally have someone in office who actually believes getting off the black tar heroine called oil is worthy. If we took that $100 billion dollars and instead subsidized electric, we could nearly buy everyone replacing a car an electric for next to nothing. Someone needed to make sense of it. I’m thankful Colorado where I live adds another $4,000 to the rebates. Ready to buy – wish GM added this state following the rebate support given here.


  154. 154
    America1st

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    America1st
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:21 pm)

    Whatsup with all the Rush Limbaugh listening anyway. That’s a guaranteed IQ drop of at least 40 points. You’d think after the first 100 times he was debunked that’d be enough to realize he just works to rile up the ignorant masses. Real insights don’t come from talk radio, left or right. Both patronize for the audience, lying is part of the storytelling.


  155. 155
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:24 pm)

    kdawg: Not only to advance the industry, but everytime a car company retools a US/Canada/Mexico plant, that means more business for my company.  

    Yup, that’s the plan. If you set up clusters other manufacturers and suppliers will co-locate with you. Out of curiosity, is your company global?

    Tagamet: Just so I’m clear, didn’t the car dealers here say that the actual lease would be closer to $450/month?

    Two points. One is that the $350/month lease may be one of those “exist as a PR event” financing offers. To make it work the dealers would have to take below MSRP. That will happen but not at the moment. The second point is that you tax on top of the lease so unless you live in a state that doesn’t have a sales tax the payment you make will always be higher than the nominal lease payment.

    Even at $450 a month the lease is better than buying the car. My guess is that in three years there will be a lot of new stuff coming out and the market value of a Volt will be well below the residual value.


  156. 156
    America1st

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    America1st
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:29 pm)

    Thank God a car like this is finally here. As a retired Air Force veteran who watched my wife, my efforts, our neighbors, and friends, head overseas to patrol the oil highway, I’m grateful to GM. I must confess, if anyone cared to consider the real cost of a barrel, let’s add another $100 billion dollars annually in war costs going to protect oil, doing no more than subdisizing our competitors, like China, Japan, UK, France, pretty much the world to protect oil for them. When 9/11 happened, the former President had the royal family of Saud flying when no Americans could. They have us by the ba_ls without cars like this in play.

    I never thought the day would come. CHEVY VOLT – American-made, American-FUELED.


  157. 157
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:30 pm)

    America1st: Thank God we finally have someone in office who actually believes getting off the black tar heroine called oil is worthy.

    Let’s keep Obama and Rush and Dems and Repubs out of this.

    Let’s remember that the Volt pre-dates the current incarnation of GM, and the current political climate. Let’s also remember that if Obama makes good on his promise to bankrupt the coal industry, it could still end up being cheaper to buy gas. A good idea is a good idea, regardless of what stooge in Washington decides to take credit for it this week (and a bad one is still bad, no matter who is championing it).


  158. 158
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:41 pm)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): Let’s keep Obama and Rush and Dems and Repubs out of this.

    Amen.

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  159. 159
    V=IR

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    V=IR
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:47 pm)

    Check out the op-ed in the NY Times by Edward Niedermeyer titled: G.M.’s Electric Lemon. Here are the final two paragraphs.

    “In the end, making the bailout work — whatever the cost — is the only good reason for buying a Volt. The car is not just an environmental hair shirt (a charge leveled at the Prius early in its existence), it is an act of political self-denial as well.

    “If G.M. were honest, it would market the car as a personal donation for, and vote of confidence in, the auto bailout. Unfortunately, that’s not the kind of cross-branding that will make the Volt a runaway success.”

    Nice counter-balance to the love-in up in Detroit today.


  160. 160
    CorvetteGuy

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:51 pm)

    Tagamet: Just so I’m clear, didn’t the car dealers here say that the actual lease would be closer to $450/month?TIA.Be well,Tagamet  (Quote)

    That was my estimate because I am sure that the $350 lease Program does not include Sales Taxes (at least in California) which are added to that number. So I estimate closer to $450 total on that payment.


  161. 161
    CorvetteGuy

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CorvetteGuy
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:53 pm)

    KUD: Thanks great reading. On your site you mention 39mpg where did that come from?  (Quote)

    That was the concensus here on this site a couple of months ago. It has changed recently and I am just a bit behind updating my graphics. I’m still waiting for the official number but i plan to change it to 34.


  162. 162
    neutron

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    neutron
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:53 pm)

    DonC:
    The Volt can’t be priced at a 30% premium to the Leaf. Maybe 15% but not 30%. It’s too big a gap.Both Nissan and GM will have to ramp up the numbers in order to get the price down so the price without the rebates are competitive with conventional vehicles. However, in addition, GM has to whittle down the price differential vis-a-vis the Leaf. Right now it’s too big. This may not prove decisive in the immediate future given the limited number of EVs available and the perception that the range limitations of BEVs will be a problem, but it will be shortly as there is more competition and choices and people begin to adapt and figure out that range limitations are not such a big issue.
    As I pointed out earlier, for the price difference between a Leaf and a Volt I could rent a car that got better mileage for at least 232 days. That’s a lot of rentals. (For the last couple of months both my wife and I have been keeping logs of the miles we drive and, so far, we’ve never exceeded more than about 60 miles).  

    Based on your comments it appears the LEAF is the car for you two.


  163. 163
    The grump

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    The grump
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:55 pm)

    The grump: I AM CALLING A GM VOLT RED ALERT !I just got off the phone with the IRS, and found out that the $7500.00 tax credit, which was supposed to reduce the $41,000.00 price of the Volt, will apply to very few taxpayers. Most who do quality will not get the full tax credit.———————————————————————————————
    1) It is a NON-DEDUCTABLE tax credit. This means you can use it to reduce your tax bill, but that’s it. It CAN reduce your tax debt, but it cannot generate or increase a tax rebate. All it does is reduce your tax debt. You’re not going to get a $7500.00 rebate check
    2) You must file a full 1040 form to claim the tax credit. It goes on line 53 of the 1040 form.
    3) You can only claim the full $7500.00 tax credit IF you file as a business. Individual taxpayers only qualify for a $2500.00 tax credit.
    4) If you lease the Volt, you get NO tax credit. NONE. The credit can be claimed by the company that leases the car – that would be GM, not you.So GM gets the gold mine, while the taxpayer gets the shaft. I don’t even qualify for the $2,500.00 tax credit  (Quote)

    DonC: I didn’t know the IRS worked so late outside tax season. Maybe that’s why the conversation went so sideways:1. A tax credit is not the same as a tax rebate2. You have to file Form 8834. No idea what line that rolls up to.3. Crazy — Form 8834 is for an individual and Form 3800 is for a business. You can get the full $7500 as an individual and it’s not subject to AMT, unlike the earlier credits (and for a car priced at $45K that’s a good thing since if you’re not subject to the AMT maybe you shouldn’t be buying one — only kidding).4. Of course you don’t get the credit if you lease. The leasing company gets it because they own the car and you’re leasing it. But you get ALL the benefit of the credit because your Capitalized Cost of the car is reduced by $7500. And you get this benefit immediately. No waiting until you file. If you could also claim the credit you’d be getting two credits worth $15,000. Bottom line: If you’re worried about not being able to take advantage of the credit, or if you’re intimidated by the filling process, just lease the thing. You’ll get 100% of the benefit without any of the hassle.  (Quote)

    I just know what the IRS told me on the phone. They probably know a little more about taxes than you do. I asked them to explain how the Volt’s tax credit works, and they did. I just want to give the GM-Volt.com readers the info I received. If they want to confirm this information, all they have to do is call the IRS at 1-800-829-1040. You may want to call as well.

    I just want to let everyone know, so they won’t be disappointed on April 15. The IRS said the limits are 7500.00 for business filers, and 2500.00 for individuals. Please call the IRS and verify this information before spouting your opinion. This is too important an issue to casually blow off. People need to know how the tax credit works – and if it won’t work for them.

    I urge everyone to call the IRS at 1-800-829-1040 and find out for themselves. Don’t take anyone else’s work or opinion – CALL THE IRS. GET THE FACTS.


  164. 164
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (9:57 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: Tagamet: Just so I’m clear, didn’t the car dealers here say that the actual lease would be closer to $450/month?TIA.Be well,Tagamet (Quote)

    That was my estimate because I am sure that the $350 lease Program does not include Sales Taxes (at least in California) which are added to that number. So I estimate closer to $450 total on that payment.

    Thanks for the recap!

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  165. 165
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (10:00 pm)

    DonC: The Volt can’t be priced at a 30% premium to the Leaf. Maybe 15% but not 30%. It’s too big a gap.
    Both Nissan and GM will have to ramp up the numbers in order to get the price down so the price without the rebates are competitive with conventional vehicles. However, in addition, GM has to whittle down the price differential vis-a-vis the Leaf. Right now it’s too big. This may not prove decisive in the immediate future given the limited number of EVs available and the perception that the range limitations of BEVs will be a problem, but it will be shortly as there is more competition and choices and people begin to adapt and figure out that range limitations are not such a big issue.
    As I pointed out earlier, for the price difference between a Leaf and a Volt I could rent a car that got better mileage for at least 232 days. That’s a lot of rentals. (For the last couple of months both my wife and I have been keeping logs of the miles we drive and, so far, we’ve never exceeded more than about 60 miles).

    2013 MY for Gen II. That’s my story, I’m sticking with it.


  166. 166
    Jimza Skeptic

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jimza Skeptic
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (10:01 pm)

    ronr64:
    It is called competition.No way is the rest of the automobile world just going to sit on the side lines and let GM profitably sell 45,000 EREV’s a year without jumping in.Now if Volts sit on dealer lots unsold once the early adopters have theirs then that will be a different story.I seriously doubt that but if I was running OPEC I think I would flood the market with oil right now…That is if they even can.Production and demand are pretty constrained and have been for almost 10 years now so it would take a lot of $$ and time to do so.Meanwhile technology marches on and appears to have reached a critical point where I don’t think cheap gas prices would be able to kill it unless it happened right now.  

    The competition is 3+ years behind. And I suspect they are only dipping their toe in the water for the next year to see if the VOLT performs as advertised. Yes, everyone is apparently coming out with a pure BEV, but no one has the technology of the VOLT in their back pocket unless they were working on it at the “Skunk Works” plant. So it will be 4 years before you see serious competition. This is GM’s game to win or lose.


  167. 167
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (10:07 pm)

    Dave K.: The L.A. Auto Show Volt really looked good up close. I believe the Viridian Joule color is for the Volt only.
    =D-Volt
    BTW:Looks like the “wheel” option does not include going with 18’s. Had a feeling this would be the case. As it will cost CS MPG and electric range. The owner can communicate with their Volt via smart phone, laptop, or home/work PC at a designated Volt page.
    L.A. Auto Show photo:

    Yes always looks better than the photos, I was there at almost the same time as you were, same day. I had to leave early though. My mom had a problem with her Buick and I needed to give her a ride home. Oh the irony :)


  168. 168
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (10:24 pm)

    The grump: I just know what the IRS told me on the phone. They probably know a little more about taxes than you do. I asked them to explain how the Volt’s tax credit works, and they did. I just want to give the GM-Volt.com readers the info I received. If they want to confirm this information, all they have to do is call the IRS at 1-800-829-1040. You may want to call as well.

    I just want to let everyone know, so they won’t be disappointed on April 15. The IRS said the limits are 7500.00 for business filers, and 2500.00 for individuals. Please call the IRS and verify this information before spouting your opinion. This is too important an issue to casually blow off. People need to know how the tax credit works – and if it won’t work for them.

    I urge everyone to call the IRS at 1-800-829-1040 and find out for themselves. Don’t take anyone else’s work or opinion – CALL THE IRS. GET THE FACTS.

    Not so fast, Grump. Fact is, the IRS help line isn’t the ultimate authority for much; unless you’re willing to put up with a 1 in 3 inaccuracy rate.

    http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/taxes/preparationtips/p105690.asp

    Lyle, this sounds like a subject needing definitive reporting from a sound legal perspective.


  169. 169
    john1701a

    -3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    john1701a
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (10:28 pm)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): Troll. Definitely Troll.

    Remember when you claimed all that could be done for support had been already? There’s something else overlooked…

    Want a constructive answer? Try a constructive reply.


  170. 170
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (10:36 pm)

    jeffhre: 2013 MY for Gen II. That’s my story, I’m sticking with it.

    I’d vote for that. Now all we need to do is to get from here to there. Wait, isn’t that what we said in 2008 and 2009 and 2010. It kinda makes 2013 seem VERY far away. :-(

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  171. 171
    Dave K.

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dave K.
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (10:37 pm)

    jeffhre: My mom had a problem with her Buick and I needed to give her a ride home.

    My father and coworker have 6 cylinder Buick’s and they swear by them. Not for everyone, but a solid car.

    Yes the Volt looked very good at the Auto Show. The Cruze was in an unprotected display. The Volt was off limits except for a couple of exceptions. Two people were allowed to sit in it. Both front and rear seats. Not sure who these folks are. One was a white male wearing a gray suit age 55. The other male looked Korean or Chinese, about 40 years old.

    I honestly want to place a deposit on a Volt. Was very lucky this year in the stock market. Hit it big on a biomed company and checked out with $100k. Intuition tells me it’s best to let the first model year sell to the hard core greenies who really want to be the very first owners. I expect the coming 16 months to be an EV buffet. And I eagerly wait to hear more on the 2012 Volt. I expect a control panel/display screen change. A revised ICE configuration. And a better way of rolling out the new model year. I’m not happy with the initial contacts with the Chevy dealerships. Getting the feeling I’m being shuffled through and left uninformed. I believe I caught one in a lie. Not going to say what happened. But the truth came out just a few days after the remarks. I am giving the benefit of the doubt that he really didn’t know what he was saying. I know it’s a part of the game of car sales. I just don’t want to feel like the loser.

    =D-Volt

    L.A. Auto Show

    LA%20Volt%20display%20044.jpg


  172. 172
    flmark

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    flmark
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (10:59 pm)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): Not so fast, Grump. Fact is, the IRS help line isn’t the ultimate authority for much; unless you’re willing to put up with a 1 in 3 inaccuracy rate.http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/taxes/preparationtips/p105690.aspLyle, this sounds like a subject needing definitive reporting from a sound legal perspective.  (Quote)

    Yes. Yes. Yes. Please do not listen to the Grump. Thank you, DonC for saving me some typing. I do my own taxes, including the 1120S Corporate Form. I am an engineer, not an accountant- and it usually works better that way. I have tried to call and get help from the IRS a few times and been ‘bum doped’ EACH TIME. This includes 1) a time when I had to read the instruction TO the IRS rep to prove her wrong and 2) a time when they kept giving me the totally wrong code to amortize business loan costs (I kept that email in case I got audited, because ultimately I gave up). My brother in law is a CPA and gave me some great advice. That means read the instructions and do the best I can. Taxes suck. And the IRS is no help. But like I said a couple days ago, I also believed I had read that this is not subject to AMT- which is the real ‘gotcha’ in the tax code. This means that MOST WILL be able to take advantage of this tax credit.


  173. 173
    flmark

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    flmark
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:15 pm)

    ronr64: Hey, half the population likes him and half doesn’t. The point wasn’t to open myself up to cheap shots from the 1/2 that doesn’t. He is certainly not alone in not understanding what the Volt is about – remember David Letterman? We don’t need to turn this sight political in a 1 side vs the other side kind of way – too much of that already in this world. That doesn’t mean politics won’t occassionally creap in such as discussing EPA ratings or govt credits etc. But how about keeping the discourse civil and only as it pertains to the Volt? Back to Rush. I’ve been a fan since 1988 so I’ve listened plenty and my head has yet to explode. I am also a huge fan of the Volt and the promise such vehicles bring. Yeah it sucks that he doesn’t get it but I also understand why he doesn’t get it. He is only looking at it from one perspective and that perspective makes the Volt not make sense depending upon what you believe. For example if you are an accountant and $ and cents are the only thing that guides you then you will never understand the Volt. If you think the Volt is only about less polution because of global warming and you don’t buy into global warming (I don’t believe but I digress…) then the Volt will not make sense. If you think we will have oil available for ever (does anyone really think that?) then the Volt will not makes sense. If you have anyone of these issues that is so important to you that you dismiss the others then the it won’t make sense to you that someone would pay that kind of money for it when other choices exist for far less money. That is one of the beauties of the Volt. Many people who normally don’t see eye to eye on many of our social issues can find common ground here. Not all but many. Myself it is the ability to ween ourselves off of a foreign sourced comodity that attracts me to the Volt. We send/spend way too much money/blood on securing reliable sources of oil. That’s me, for you it might be a different reason that I might find laughable. But hey, to each his own – Volt.  (Quote)

    I am surprised you picked my comment to rebuke as the anti-Rush comments kicked in rapidly. Mine was obviously meant tongue-in-cheek as it is unlikely that few auditory inputs will actually cause your head to explode.

    Seriously, though, reread your rhetoric, as well as those who commented BOTH FOR AND AGAINST him. I will repeat something I started writing on the day the universe collapsed, er, the day the Volt price was released. Don’t Worry. Be Happy. Rush is a polarizing figure, as is Al Sharpton, and Oprah, for that matter. If you listen to a talking head for too long, you disengage reason and start thinking with emotion.

    I used to listen to Rush (like DonC pointed out in a similar fashion). Long before I became convinced of his ‘blow hard’ status, I realized I didn’t like the way I felt (ANGRY) after I was done listening to him. And it turns out it doesn’t matter whether you get ANGRY because you AGREE with what he says or you DISAGREE with what he says. He doesn’t try to talk REASONABLY about ANYTHING! His rants are designed to ellicit emotional responses. So are heart tugs of Oprah, for that matter. “Just the facts, maam.”, as Joe Friday would say. As soon as I feel I am being manipulated, I change the channel.

    Don’t Worry. Be Happy.


  174. 174
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:24 pm)

    flmark: …I am surprised you picked my comment to rebuke …

    As often as not, it’s just the order that a person is reading the posts that elicits a reply. I wouldn’t take it tooooo personally. I know I don’t.
    PS I *don’t* change the channel so I can get all sides. Can’t do that if your sources are too narrowed. JMO.

    Be well,
    Tagamet


  175. 175
    Michael

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Michael
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:27 pm)

    Here is the DOE link for Consumer Energy Tax Incentives (Note this is for consumers, that’s us, not businesses, Mr. Grump.)

    http://www.energy.gov/taxbreaks.htm

    Plug-In Electric Vehicles
    “The Recovery Act modifies the credit for qualified plug-in electric drive vehicles purchased after Dec. 31, 2009. The minimum amount of the credit for qualified plug-in electric drive vehicles is $2,500 and the credit tops out at $7,500, depending on the battery capacity. To qualify, vehicles must be newly purchased, have four or more wheels, have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 lbs, and draw propulsion using a battery with at least four kilowatt hours that can be recharged from an external source of electricity. The full amount of the credit will be reduced with respect to a manufacturer’s vehicles after the manufacturer has sold at least 200,000 vehicles. The credit will then phase out over a year.”

    There are two references to Interim IRS docs, but don’t expect them to make sense on their own. You probably need the whole tax code. :-(

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-09-54.pdf
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-09-58.pdf


  176. 176
    Charlie H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:36 pm)

    DonC: I didn’t know the IRS worked so late outside tax season. Maybe that’s why the conversation went so sideways:1. A tax credit is not the same as a tax rebate2. You have to file Form 8834. No idea what line that rolls up to.3. Crazy — Form 8834 is for an individual and Form 3800 is for a business. You can get the full $7500 as an individual and it’s not subject to AMT, unlike the earlier credits (and for a car priced at $45K that’s a good thing since if you’re not subject to the AMT maybe you shouldn’t be buying one — only kidding).4. Of course you don’t get the credit if you lease. The leasing company gets it because they own the car and you’re leasing it. But you get ALL the benefit of the credit because your Capitalized Cost of the car is reduced by $7500. And you get this benefit immediately. No waiting until you file. If you could also claim the credit you’d be getting two credits worth $15,000. Bottom line: If you’re worried about not being able to take advantage of the credit, or if you’re intimidated by the filling process, just lease the thing. You’ll get 100% of the benefit without any of the hassle.  (Quote)

    I just looked at Form 8834. Since it doesn’t mention the 16kwh max’ed sliding scale, I’d guess this form is obsolete or not the correct form.

    Form 8910 doesn’t look like it, either. I’d guess the IRS has some catching up to do.

    When the time comes, once you’ve figured the credit on the appropriate form, you should just plug the figure back into a line called “Credits and Other Adjustments” or something similar on the 1040.

    I imagine how this works will get discussed here a few times between January 1 and April 15, 2010. :)


  177. 177
    Tagamet

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Tagamet
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:36 pm)

    Michael: …There are two references to Interim IRS docs, but don’t expect them to make sense.

    It’s a .gov site, it’s not supposed to make sense (g). Thanks for the resources though.

    Did anyone else notice that the author of the NY Times Op-Ed is the editor of the thetruthaboutcars.com site? I haven’t been to that site, but I’ve seen others post it here.

    Getting late. See you all later today.
    Be well,
    Tagamet


  178. 178
    Charlie H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:38 pm)

    I stumbled onto this link on the IRS site:

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=225691,00.html

    Is it helpful? Uhhh… no.


  179. 179
    no comment

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    no comment
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:42 pm)

    grump is completely wrong on the amount and terms of the tax credit. $2500 is the minimum credit that you get for an electric car but you can get additional credits based on the battery capacity. the volt’s 16 kwh battery is large enough to qualify for the maximum additional credit of $5000, bringing the total credit to $7500 (assuming that you own the vehicle). anyway, that’s how you get to the $7500 tax credit; has nothing to do with whether the filer is an individual or a business. it is a non-refundable tax credit, but if you’re not generating $7500 of tax liability in a year, then i suspect that you probably can’t afford a volt.

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson):
    Not so fast, Grump.Fact is, the IRS help line isn’t the ultimate authority for much; unless you’re willing to put up with a 1 in 3 inaccuracy rate.http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/taxes/preparationtips/p105690.aspLyle, this sounds like a subject needing definitive reporting from a sound legal perspective.  


  180. 180
    Charlie H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:43 pm)

    More enlightening:

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=214841,00.html


  181. 181
    no comment

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    no comment
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:45 pm)

    actually it *is* helpful because it is telling you the amount of tax credit that you can claim for the chevy volt so that you don’t have to compute it yourself. in essence, what it is telling you is that the volt qualifies for the maximum tax credit.

    Charlie H: I stumbled onto this link on the IRS site:http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=225691,00.htmlIs it helpful?Uhhh… no.  


  182. 182
    Charlie H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:50 pm)

    And, finally, follow the title:

    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=215521,00.html

    I’ve never leased a vehicle. I expect the lessor retains the title and therefore gets the credit.


  183. 183
    Charlie H

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:51 pm)

    no comment: actually it *is* helpful because it is telling you the amount of tax credit that you can claim for the chevy volt so that you don’t have to compute it yourself. in essence, what it is telling you is that the volt qualifies for the maximum tax credit.  (Quote)

    Right, but it doesn’t tell you how to get it or whether or not the lessee or lessor gets the credit. So, I kept looking. When I probably should have been sleeping. :)


  184. 184
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:55 pm)

    john1701a: That has been and will continue to be the measure of progress. A small number without influence on overall production or profit doesn’t actually accomplish anything. 

    Are you talking about the first year the Prius was sold? I have to disagree – look at all the subsequent success that the first year led to.


  185. 185
    Charlie H

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Charlie H
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:55 pm)

    Tagamet: It’s a .gov site, it’s not supposed to make sense (g). Thanks for the resources though.Did anyone else notice that the author of the NY Times Op-Ed is the editor of the thetruthaboutcars.com site? I haven’t been to that site, but I’ve seen others post it here.Getting late. See you all later today.Be well,Tagamet  (Quote)

    I know the site well. TTAC predicted GM’s banktruptcy about 5 years before it happened. GM fanbois used to come by frequently to whine about the “GM Deathwatch” series and any other criticisms of GM but you know how that ended.


  186. 186
    Jim I

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jim I
     Says

     

    Jul 30th, 2010 (11:55 pm)

    DonC:
    I didn’t know the IRS worked so late outside tax season. Maybe that’s why the conversation went so sideways:1. A tax credit is not the same as a tax rebate
    2. You have to file Form 8834. No idea what line that rolls up to.
    3. Crazy — Form 8834 is for an individual and Form 3800 is for a business. You can get the full $7500 as an individual and it’s not subject to AMT, unlike the earlier credits (and for a car priced at $45K that’s a good thing since if you’re not subject to the AMT maybe you shouldn’t be buying one — only kidding).
    4. Of course you don’t get the credit if you lease. The leasing company gets it because they own the car and you’re leasing it. But you get ALL the benefit of the credit because your Capitalized Cost of the car is reduced by $7500. And you get this benefit immediately. No waiting until you file. If you could also claim the credit you’d be getting two credits worth $15,000.
    Bottom line: If you’re worried about not being able to take advantage of the credit, or if you’re intimidated by the filling process, just lease the thing. You’ll get 100% of the benefit without any of the hassle.  

    =============================

    It sounds to me like the best deal here is to lease. I have never leased a car in my life, but if I purchased, even with the trade in value of my current vehicle, the lease price would be half of a regular 60 month car payment. Plus, by leasing, you do not have to deal with the IRS and the rebate… (A HUGE PLUS!!) Then, in three years, you get to check out what is new, and probably lower priced. Then it might be the right time to buy……

    JMHO

    The only questions are:

    Is the lease deal a teaser for the first year only?

    When will GM release the nationwide rollout plans for the rest of us people in the other 43 states of the USA????


  187. 187
    LauraM

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (12:06 am)

    The grump: I just want to let everyone know, so they won’t be disappointed on April 15. The IRS said the limits are 7500.00 for business filers, and 2500.00 for individuals. Please call the IRS and verify this information before spouting your opinion. This is too important an issue to casually blow off. People need to know how the tax credit works – and if it won’t work for them.

    I urge everyone to call the IRS at 1-800-829-1040 and find out for themselves. Don’t take anyone else’s work or opinion – CALL THE IRS. GET THE FACTS.

    The DOE website lists the tax credit as “available to consumers.” And they say the credit depends on the battery capacity. It doesn’t say anything about businesses vs. individuals.

    Here’s the relevant language:

    “The Recovery Act modifies the credit for qualified plug-in electric drive vehicles purchased after Dec. 31, 2009. The minimum amount of the credit for qualified plug-in electric drive vehicles is $2,500 and the credit tops out at $7,500, depending on the battery capacity. To qualify, vehicles must be newly purchased, have four or more wheels, have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 lbs, and draw propulsion using a battery with at least four kilowatt hours that can be recharged from an external source of electricity. The full amount of the credit will be reduced with respect to a manufacturer’s vehicles after the manufacturer has sold at least 200,000 vehicles. The credit will then phase out over a year. ”

    http://www.energy.gov/taxbreaks.htm


  188. 188
    LauraM

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (12:11 am)

    Michael: Here is the DOE link for Consumer Energy Tax Incentives (Note this is for consumers, that’s us, not businesses, Mr. Grump.)

    http://www.energy.gov/taxbreaks.htm

    Plug-In Electric Vehicles
    “The Recovery Act modifies the credit for qualified plug-in electric drive vehicles purchased after Dec. 31, 2009. The minimum amount of the credit for qualified plug-in electric drive vehicles is $2,500 and the credit tops out at $7,500, depending on the battery capacity. To qualify, vehicles must be newly purchased, have four or more wheels, have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 lbs, and draw propulsion using a battery with at least four kilowatt hours that can be recharged from an external source of electricity. The full amount of the credit will be reduced with respect to a manufacturer’s vehicles after the manufacturer has sold at least 200,000 vehicles. The credit will then phase out over a year.”

    There are two references to Interim IRS docs, but don’t expect them to make sense on their own. You probably need the whole tax code. :-(

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-09-54.pdf
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-09-58.pdf

    Oops. I didn’t see this before posting. I really should learn to refresh before writing anything…Please disregard my previous post…


  189. 189
    jeffhre

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jeffhre
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (12:21 am)

    Dave K.: My father and coworker have 6 cylinder Buick’s and they swear by them. Not for everyone, but a solid car.

    Weird, my experience for the year echoes yours so completely. Except for the biotech stock. Return of financial stocks gave me a slight lift, but I was too conservative, so a tiny lift.

    It’s a good thing it never rains in Southern California because my Mom’s power windows went out, no drive train problems though.

    When I was viewing the Volt an Asian couple in their early thirties was very comfortably looking over the volts interior. I asked him if he had decided to buy already because he seemed so connected to the car (enthralled even) and at ease in stepping behind the ropes at will. He replied he wasn’t sure. Wonder if they are on a dealer list now?

    I haven’t decided yet, that’s a lot of money and I don’t need a new car yet.


  190. 190
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (1:04 am)

    Charlie H: I just looked at Form 8834

    Yeah, my bad. They changed the form numbers. The new Form is 8936. It’s a draft since 2010 is the first year the credits are available and the tax year isn’t complete as of now. You can find it here:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/f8936–dft.pdf

    The grump: I just know what the IRS told me on the phone. They probably know a little more about taxes than you do. I asked them to explain how the Volt’s tax credit works, and they did. I just want to give the GM-Volt.com readers the info I received.

    I’m sure someone at the IRS knows about these credits but apparently not the person you talked to. The information about needing to fill out the long form and the fact that these are credits not rebates was correct. Everything else was wrong. False alarm. But again, if you won’t have enough taxable income to use the credits by all means lease the car because the leasing company will take the credits off price for you. So you’ll get the benefit of them.

    Charlie H: I’ve never leased a vehicle. I expect the lessor retains the title and therefore gets the credit. 

    Yep. Has to work that way.

    Jim I: I have never leased a car in my life, but if I purchased, even with the trade in value of my current vehicle, the lease price would be half of a regular 60 month car payment. Plus, by leasing, you do not have to deal with the IRS and the rebate… (A HUGE PLUS!!) Then, in three years, you get to check out what is new, and probably lower priced. Then it might be the right time to buy……

    You can trade in a car on a lease deal if you want. Leasing is not that complex. Just remember that the piece you are “buying” is the difference between the purchase price of the vehicle and the residual, which is the price you can buy the vehicle for at the end of the lease (or just turn it back in or, if the residual is above market, negotiate to buy it for less than residual).

    As for whether the lease deal is a one year only deal, the reality is that dealers don’t have to offer the lease deal, and my guess is not many will since they’ll have to leave some money on the table because they’ll have to take less than MSRP to make the numbers work. (Totally different deal with the Leaf since Nissan is giving the customer the allocation so if the Nissan dealer doesn’t want to take MSRP the customer can just move to another dealer). Some Chevy dealers may offer the monthly payments at $350/month but you will have to cough up more money on the front end. Also note that the interest rates mentioned are usually for “well qualified buyers”. If you don’t have a FICO of 700+ you probably won’t get the best rate. Bottom line: GM could have made it work, but it screwed up by allocating the cars to the dealers rather to the customers, so the $350/month figure with the specified initial payment is mostly a PR talking point rather than what anyone will see initially.

    As time goes on at some point there will be enough supply that, like all cars, Volts will be selling below MSRP. Then you’ll see some great deals, lease or otherwise, though you’ll probably be able to pick up a used Volt for between $15K – $20K as well. Lots of interesting stuff in the pipeline.


  191. 191
    Truman

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Truman
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (1:15 am)

    edvard: You know…. that’s good news but…. What the hell? There’s that many people willing to shell out $40k for a Chevrolet?  

    People look at the car, not the brand name – did you think “Chevrolet” meant “cheap” ?

    http://www.chevrolet.com/vehicles/2010/corvettezr1/overview.do
    Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
    MSRP starting at $108,180


  192. 192
    DonC

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    DonC
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (1:17 am)

    LauraM: Oops. I didn’t see this before posting.

    Hey Laura, shifting topics back to our discussion of global operations, here’s a recent review of the Chevy Cruise. What’s interesting, other than the review itself, is that very little of the engineering was done in the US. It’s mostly a Korean design with Korean engineering.

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/review-2011-chevrolet-cruze/#more-361856

    Can’t tell from the brand where that little sausage was made! (Or maybe you can but you have to have a discerning eye).


  193. 193
    barry252

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    barry252
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (5:42 am)

    I’m a big fan of Rushbaugh and Beck and am really disappointed in their comments on the volt. But, they’re pundits and not engineers so I wouldn’t expect them to know much about the volt. In fact, very few people I’ve spoken with know the whole Volt concept. All they hear is the “40 mile range”. Maybe this perception will allow the first allocation to be sold so we early adopters can buy it without a huge dealer markup.

    I’ve been speaking with 3 different Chevy dealers about the volt and have gotten 3 different stories. One dealer north of Baltimore said thet have no allocations until 2012. One dealer closer to DC said I could get on their wait list for $300 refundable; they have no allocations yet. A third dealer was awaiting their allocation and asked that I submit a credit application to verify that I have prequalified credit. Assuming I qualify, they will interview me to see that the volt is “right for me”. Interesting…. I submitted an application and today, they’ve received their allocation notice. I will meet with them next week for my interview and spec out my volt.
    This is almost too good to be true! I don’t know if there’s a dealer markup yet, but so far, this hasn’t cost me any money yet. Time will tell…..


  194. 194
    Red HHR

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Red HHR
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (6:48 am)

    45,000 is probably a good number for first years production…
    Yes I know that is the second year. The first year of 10,000 is just an unusually large press fleet.

    Saw Obama driving the Volt on TV, happy he did not abandon the Volt!
    Told my wife about the cost of the Volt.


  195. 195
    pjkPA

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    pjkPA
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (7:12 am)

    I would not be surprised if they build more than 10K the first year.
    How many are they building right now?
    How many have been built?
    How many miles have they driven so far?
    What improvements have they made reciently?


  196. 196
    LauraM

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    LauraM
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (8:21 am)

    DonC: Hey Laura, shifting topics back to our discussion of global operations, here’s a recent review of the Chevy Cruise. What’s interesting, other than the review itself, is that very little of the engineering was done in the US. It’s mostly a Korean design with Korean engineering.

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/review-2011-chevrolet-cruze/#more-361856

    Can’t tell from the brand where that little sausage was made! (Or maybe you can but you have to have a discerning eye).

    Absolutely, GM moved the design work for small cars out of the United States. A long time ago. It’s now in Germany and Korea. That’s one of the reasons (aside from scale) that GM was so determined to hold onto Opel. And, no, I’m not happy about that. Unfortunately, there’s literally nothing I can do about it.

    American corporations are the ones with the least loyalty to their country of origin. Unlike most other countries, our corporation charters require the least amount of consideration (as in none) for the other stakeholders or the country of origin.

    But that doesn’t change the fact that GM does a higher percentage of their design work in the United States than Nissan/Renault does. Also it’s very doubtful, IMHO, that they’d do any here at all if not for the presence of GM, Ford, and Chrysler. You don’t see them (or any other company) locating a camera design studio here. Even if we are their biggest market…or were…


  197. 197
    jonboinAR

    +2

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jonboinAR
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (8:29 am)

    Tagamet: I encourage *everyone* to read the “article” at the above link. It’s a string of “I’ll bet Limbaugh does (insert early version of a tech) because he apparently doesn’t recognize that great things can have modest beginnings. The entire piece is pure speculation and does NOT reflect El Rushbo’s view of technology. Last week he bought his entire staff Iphones (latest version) because he admires high tech – especially Apple products (no he doesn’t have stock in it). The blogger states that he “singled out” the Volt which is simply inaccurate (he rails against the leaf for the same reason as the Volt = the tax rebate. Of course, many of the people reading that blog think it’s accurate because there isn’t much *perceived* overlap between environmentalists and Rush’s audience. I happen to be in both groups and can tolerate different opinions. In fact, I seek them out. I seriously wish that the Det Freep would put “a blogger’s opinion” in the link, so it doesn’t look so much like actual, accurate news.I’ve posted on this the last two days and stand by my posts. I heard the show the date the price was revealed, I didn’t catch it today, so I can’t vouch for that show.Be well and be careful,Tagamet  (Quote)

    The problem is it looks like Rush’s first priority is to be anti- Obama or Democrat. Being actually pro-American-made or accurate in his criticism is down the line somewhere. I’ve seen this behavior in him before and that’s why I try not to pay attention to him.


  198. 198
    jonboinAR

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jonboinAR
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (8:47 am)

    Jack Driskill: I support the marketing of an electric car that can provide an overall improvement in energy usage. However, I do not support having to subsidize people who can afford to buy a $40,000 vehicle with my tax dollars. (I’m still upset about the cash for clunkers program, since I know people that make over $200K per year that received $4,500 tax credits to buy new luxury vehicles.)  (Quote)

    Jack, I believe that world-wide experience proves that government support of and involvement in, budding industries works quite effectively to the benefit of the nation whose government subsidizes their industry. Our national aynrand-style hands-off approach is PART OF what has nearly ruined the US economically. Put down the “Atlas Shrugged”, Jack. Come back to the light side.

    (I don’t necessarily think you’re a hard-core libertarian, but nascent industries, if we expect to have any part in them, DO require subsidizing, I believe, especially so long as Korea, Japan, China, Taiwan, Singapore, etc do it.)


  199. 199
    jonboinAR

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    jonboinAR
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (9:13 am)

    DonC: The Volt can’t be priced at a 30% premium to the Leaf. Maybe 15% but not 30%. It’s too big a gap.Both Nissan and GM will have to ramp up the numbers in order to get the price down so the price without the rebates are competitive with conventional vehicles. However, in addition, GM has to whittle down the price differential vis-a-vis the Leaf. Right now it’s too big. This may not prove decisive in the immediate future given the limited number of EVs available and the perception that the range limitations of BEVs will be a problem, but it will be shortly as there is more competition and choices and people begin to adapt and figure out that range limitations are not such a big issue. As I pointed out earlier, for the price difference between a Leaf and a Volt I could rent a car that got better mileage for at least 232 days. That’s a lot of rentals. (For the last couple of months both my wife and I have been keeping logs of the miles we drive and, so far, we’ve never exceeded more than about 60 miles).  (Quote)

    …but renting a car every time you want to travel just outside your range is a lot of trouble. The Volt saving you from that concern is the point. It seems to me that range anxiety must remain a continuing issue for electric cars. For cryin’ out loud, the Leaf can only go 100 miles (on a cool day) without stopping for several hours to recharge, . OTOH, your point remains, the Volt does need to come down quite a bit in price to become mainstream. Hopefully, consumer electronics is the history that will set the example.


  200. 200
    Dan Petit

    +1

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Dan Petit
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (1:23 pm)

    Now that is really terrible. The very finest, most refined, most advanced, most astonishing vehicle on the planet, and, Barack isn’t allowed to go drive it!!
    How about setting up “dual controls” so he can drive it. How about having all members of the secret service themselves drive the same one and then confer an approval for Barack to drive it.
    Something ought to be done about that.
    Driving the Volt has been the singular most astonishing vehicle I’ve ever driven, and, how unjust is it that Barack had helped GM move forward for us to have it, (many of us to have the privilege to drive it), and yet, Barack is not allowed to drive it before many others are able to drive it in a few more short months. That is really an ironically-unhappy deal if you ask me.
    (Hang in there Mr. President, maybe a “driver’s ed” set of mods might make sufficient difference for accommodating the security protocols for you to have the pleasure to drive the Volt!!)


  201. 201
    Jack Driskill

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Jack Driskill
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (1:29 pm)

    Steverino: If we can subsidize oil companies (they seem to break profit records every year) why can’t we subsidize getting a new industry off the ground that also happens to help get us off oil and helps an industrial policy that keeps manufacturing jobs here?We subsidize banks by providing them with low cost money, we subsidize corporate farming, we subsidize sugar producers for heck’s sake. But when it comes to actually doing something except talk about getting off oil, suddenly we have to be 100% free market? That approach has been tried for 40 years. Now, with subsidies and tax incentives, we finally see some encouraging developments. We as a country either invest in moving forward or we will lose more jobs and more technology. You have to prime the pump. Incentives like the $7500 help.  (Quote)

    Good point made regarding the problem of subsidies. Where do you draw the line? The government decides what is best for the “general welfare” of the country. There are lots of small businesses that would like to be subsidized for the introduction of their new products, but they do not have the political clout (and money) of automotive, oil, banking and agricultural lobbies. The free enterprise system favors venture capital to support innovation, not the tax payers. This approach takes into account the risk and reward that is associated with new product introduction. The government approach is quite different. They take tax money from one person and gives it to another person to buy the product.

    GM has already announced that they will increase their planned production by 50% due to the anticipated demand for the Volt. If this is the case, why should the government decide that this product needs to be subsidized?


  202. 202
    Ken Grubb

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Ken Grubb
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (5:29 pm)

    Free enterprise did not give us improvements in emissions, fuel efficiency, or safety. Government mandates did and they’re the only thing proven to improve all three.

    Direct subsidy estimates to Big Oil from Uncle Same run between $60B and $120B per year. Throw in indirect subsidies and the estimates reach upwards of $800B a year. The taxpayers are already footing the bill in a myriad of ways so subsidies that improve general welfare (reduced emissions, improved fuel efficiency, improved safety, etc.) only make sense.

    I realize that adherents to the Ayn Rand inspired ideology of Rand Paul and others won’t be persuaded and instead cling to abstract trickle down theory.


  203. 203
    fudgecruncher

    -4

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    fudgecruncher
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (5:35 pm)

    Overpriced tin can… Another great idea from the US Govt. — not even an electric car. Has a gas engine that requires premium gasoline.


  204. 204
    Truman

    +3

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Truman
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (6:31 pm)

    Jack Driskill:
    Good point made regarding the problem of subsidies. Where do you draw the line? The government decides what is best for the “general welfare” of the country. There are lots of small businesses that would like to be subsidized for the introduction of their new products, but they do not have the political clout (and money) of automotive, oil, banking and agricultural lobbies. The free enterprise system favors venture capital to support innovation, not the tax payers. This approach takes into account the risk and reward that is associated with new product introduction. The government approach is quite different. They take tax money from one person and gives it to another person to buy the product.
    GM has already announced that they will increase their planned production by 50% due to the anticipated demand for the Volt. If this is the case, why should the government decide that this product needs to be subsidized?  

    I didn’t hear these so-called “libertarians” complaining about the huge SUV tax write offs under Bush – when dermatologists, real estate agents, accountants and business consultants were deducting $87,135 from their taxes immediately upon buying $102,581 Hummers:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/23/opinion/meyer/main537649.shtml

    These Obama haters used to think Hummer and other huge SUV subsidies were a great idea, rewarding people “smart enough” to be filing Section 179 expense forms (in business, filing a Schedule C or corporate tax return) with taxpayer money to buy the most fuel-wasteful vehicles known to mankind:
    http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/biz_tips/20030403b1.asp
    Most people buying SUVs are paying $40,000 or $50,000, so by the time you take the 50 percent bonus deduction and the $25,000 depreciation expense, most of them are still going to write off the full amount.”

    Yeah, I remember Rush Limbaugh complaining about that waste of taxpayer money…

    But now, $7,500 taxpayer subsidies for a 21st century vehicle that might wind up saving Detroit is a huge step towards “Socialism”.

    Hypocrites.


  205. 205
    CMull

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    CMull
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (8:49 pm)

    Just still huge disappointment in the price :( . And the next generations won’t go lower in price, so I will have to look elsewhere…


  206. 206
    Truman

     

    Vote -1 Vote +1

    Truman
     Says

     

    Jul 31st, 2010 (9:34 pm)

    CMull:And the next generations won’t go lower in price,

    Yes they will.