After more than three years of intense debate, discussion, and speculation and over a fifteen hundred articles on GM-Volt.com, the moment has finally arrived for GM to unveil the Chevrolet Volt’s pricing.
The Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) starts at $41,000.
Taking the $7500 tax credit into account the net cost to the buyer will thus be $33,500. The MSRP includes a $720 destination charge.
GM is pricing the car’s lease price much more aggressively. The 3 year 36 month lease payment will be $350 per month with $2500 down payment.
GM is able to offer such a low lease price because of the determination that the car will have a high residual value, though they are not releasing it at this time.
GM will begin taking orders for the car at participating launch market dealers in California, Washington DC, Michigan, Texas and New York starting today.
The car comes with a generous list of standard features for the base MSRP. If a buyer decides to, he or she can add up to 4 premium options which include leather seats and steering wheel, rear camera and parking sensors, polished wheels, and one of three premium paints.
Fully loaded with all the premium features the MSRP will be $44,600 or net $37,100 after the tax credit.
“The Chevrolet Volt will be the best vehicle in its class…because it’s in a class by itself,” said Joel Ewanick, vice president of U.S. marketing for General Motors, who made the announcement at the Plug-In 2010 conference. “No other automaker offers an electrically driven vehicle that can be your everyday driver, to take you wherever, whenever. The Volt will be packed with premium content and innovation, standard.”
To assist the ordering process and manage expectations GM has a specialized customer call in number of -888-VOLT-4-YOU (1-888-865-8496), where a Volt adviser will take your questions. As well there will be a special website to see the status of the order and build process.
Local Volt dealers can be found on the website getmyvolt.com
Included in the MSRP of the car is an unprecedented 5 years of OnStar directions and connections as well as mobile phone connectivity.
“We wanted to make the Volt ownership experience unlike anything we’ve done at Chevrolet, because the Volt is unlike any vehicle we’ve offered,” said Tony DiSalle, director of Chevrolet Volt product marketing. “We want customers to fully enjoy the Volt lifestyle by providing unprecedented connectivity to their vehicle through the Volt mobile app.”
The car comes with a 120V standard charger that will recharge the car in up to 10 hours.
An optional 240 V charger will be available. 4400 customers in launch markets will be eligible for a free charger made available through DOE grants.
And there you have it. Now we know the price.
You can also ask your questions of the Volt team in the box below. Volt vehicle lien director Tony Posawatz and Volt marketing director Tony DiSalle will answer selected questions in a videocast that will appear at 4PM Eastern time.
This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 27th, 2010 at 11:00 am and is filed under Financial. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+42
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:01 am)Participating Chevy Dealers selling the Volt shown at http://media.gm.com/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/July/0727_voltpricing/_jcr_content/rightpar/tabbedframe/par3/download/file.res/072710%2520Chevrolet%2520Volt%2520Participating%2520Dealers.doc
I’m pretty disappointed in the price. They are taking the short sighted approach it seems.
The lease looks very attractive though, and the announcement of options was very exciting.
I feel like they could have really hit a home run today, but instead they went against all their previous quotes stating it would be in the 30′s (sometimes saying “closer to 40″) before the tax incentive.
join thE REVolution
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:01 am)WAHOO!!! I WANT ONE!!!
+15
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:02 am)That is disappointing but not too surprising. 41 + dealer prep + 7% sales tax should put it over 44K. Then wait for the tax credit check in 2012. This will push many to lease I think.
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:02 am)They deserve this price and the car is worth far more than a 100 mile range BEV.
Everyone of them will sell.
Demand for them will spur on the process of developing Volt Version 2.0.
+31
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:03 am)I guess I’m not too surprised, but I am a little disappointed. I really thought the “comfortably under $30,000 after the rebate) was for real. I hope GM finds a way to lower the price for 2nd generation because many folks that want this car won’t be able to afford it.
+43
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:03 am)Ouch, 41K base price. Very steep. And yes the lease is a very attractive alternative.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:03 am)Lyle, thanks for the info. Off to the dealer…
+8
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:04 am)From the article:
“We wanted to make the Volt ownership experience unlike anything we’ve done at Chevrolet,
Ya, like make a reliable product at a reasonable cost.
+87
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:04 am)After more than 3 years of watching, hoping and actively supporting GM’s Volt design and development —including two trips from my home in Florida to NYC at my own expense— I’m sorry to say I think they’ve seriously misjudged the buying public. To illustrate my own view, let me say I’d seriously consider buying a 2011 Lincoln MKS hybrid at just over $35,000 —a beautifully-styled luxury car whose hybrid technology has been proven in the Ford Fusion hybrid— rather than a Gen 1 Volt.
GM, I’m not saying the Volt isn’t worth $41,000 —I’m saying you don’t see the big picture like Toyota did when they introduced & sold the Prius at a loss!
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:04 am)Wow, more than $40K!
GO EV!!!!
+16
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:05 am)Lease price is … Accessible in ways the msrp just isn’t. That’s practically a force. Who would assume all the risk of purchase of a car this radically different if the lease option is this attractive?
+23
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:05 am)The MSRP is higher than I expected, but not a lot higher. I was thinking more in the range of $37K to $39K. Thinking that the MSRP could be in the low 30s just didn’t seem realistic, IMO. On the other hand, the lease is much better than I imagined. Much much better.
For those disappointed in the price — which includes myself to some extent — keep in mind that $350/month is a great deal. A really good deal. Just ten years ago a much less capable car was $500/month and you couldn’t buy it at the end of the lease.
Also keep in mind that in the last two years we’ve gone from having one EV — the Tesla Roadster — available at about $125K. The Volt even at $40K has reduced this price by 2/3rds. The GM engineers are good but they’re not miracle workers.
+56
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:05 am)Too much for the common person. Really disappointed by this news. Now I need to look at my other options.
+20
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:05 am)Priced way to high for the masses. The lease option amount is on par with Leaf. Lease might be the better way to go for those who want it.
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:05 am)WOW! The suspense is over. What a relief, even if it is a bit pricey. Gee, that lease is going to be attractive to a lot of people.
+57
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:06 am)That is a disaster. They didn’t get it below $30K post tax-credit. They didn’t even get it below $40K pre-tax-credit.
+32
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:06 am)Well, count me out.
Assuming my trade didn’t have an outstanding loan (which it does) I’d be looking at $500/month payments for 72 months at 4%.
+16
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:07 am)They’ll sell them all, but….
Time for a break.
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!
+37
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:07 am)You would have to save alot on gas to pay 41K for a Volt and not 16K for a cruise…….
+33
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:08 am)This confirms my decision to wait 2 or 3 years to buy an ev.
+8
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:08 am)$41k!!? Wow, higher than what I was expecting… think I’ll be going for the lease option.
+13
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:08 am)Price is what I expected and what was originally stated by Bob Lutz ($40K). $350/month is not a bad lease. I’m not a lease person, but this is a unique car. There’s so much technology thats moving at a fast pace, I think i would want to upgrade after 3 years.
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:08 am)Ouch! I won’t be buying until 2012 anyway so I hope the price will come down by then. Mid 30′s would be great.
+20
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:09 am)I’m a bit disappointed. I’ll wait for Gen 2
The lease is the financially better way to go because you amortize the tax rebate over a shorter period of time, and you protect yourself from obsolescence. But I’m not a lease type person so for me it’s a non-starter.
+22
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:09 am)Aaaaarrrrggh!! Now it’s official; my next car is a Cruze. I will say this in defense of the Volt, however: All of the people claiming that this price tag will doom the vehicle sales apparently have no idea how many SUVs cost $40K. I am sure sales will be brisk since it is such a revolutionary vehicle.
+14
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:11 am)Who says they’re not losing money at this price?
+12
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:11 am)Then I think they have succeeded in that, the price is perfectly reasonable for what one is getting.
They are going to sell out of the first two years of production regardless no point in them losing more money than necessary. As long as the prices drop enough by Gen II I don’t see this hindering adoption in any way.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:11 am)So when does Gen. 2 come out again?
(Need a lot of time to digest this, and I don’t mean my chicken salad).
+15
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:12 am)Holy s#&t! This is much higher than I expected.
Well I did suggest that GM should price it just above cost and make a profit. GM is not in a position to loose money on each car. I just thought they would be able to make money on a much lower price. At least this will minimize if not eliminate excessive dealer mark up. Better the money goes to GM than the dealer in my opinion. I think some dealer markup <$2k is acceptable, just not $5 to $10k some have been suggesting.
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:12 am)I think that this says good things for the long term.
1) It says that GM thinks it is WORTH it.
2) It will take the Volt to profitability very soon
3) It says that GM believes what we have been saying, namely there is a lot of demand.
4) It means that the car will be around for a long time. The price will come down somewhat gradually.
+16
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:12 am)I’m in!
But I live in Iowa, so I’m going to have to wait. 
For the same lease price, which would you rather have: a Volt or a Leaf?
Folks, this is 1st generation, early adopter technology. Compare it to the 1st HD flat screen TVs or the 1st (name your ubiquitous electronics device). You pay the early adopter premium. The cost will come down in succeeding editions of the Volt.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:13 am)This is not a good deal, DonC, if you are used to paying cash for a car.
+13
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:13 am)Apple’s products are priced way higher than the competition, and people can’t seem to get enough of that stuff…
They will sell all the Volts at $41000, though.
+13
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:13 am)In Georgia the Volt will cost $33,500 after tax incentives while the Leaf will cost around $21,000. That is a $12,500 spread difference.
+25
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:14 am)I am going for LEAF….waited till this day…now the pricing is out…I am also getting out from waiting list….
I am GM fan…and I love GM….but…
its really not for common man
With $12-13k difference with LEAF…It doesn’t make much sense to go with VOLT..just to avoid range issue…I can get 12-15 towing service (ya if I forget abt the range issue) for LEAF…and I don’t think if I forget abt the range one time and paid for towing I won’t make the mistake again….
+44
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:14 am)I am deeply saddened by this announcement. I think the Volt is an absolutely amazing car, but the MSRP is way too high! $41K is way too high for a Chevy compact. Cadillac? Absolutely, but definitely not a Chevy. So much for it going “mainstream”…..
The GM execs just don’t get it. This car needs to be affordable and go mainstream to help us get free from foreign oil and it needs to be produced in high volumes (300K per year, minimum).
I don’t care what kind of tax credits that are offered: the $41K sticker price is and will be a HUGE turn-off to a lot of people, especially when they can get a Leaf for approx $9K cheaper ($16K cheaper with the tax credit) and a Prius for a whopping $19K cheaper.
It really doesn’t matter how much GM tries to “educate” people about the Volt: it will be compared to the Leaf and the Prius regardless. $41K will not fly and GM is shooting itself in the foot.
Flame away at me and call me a troll if you’d like (even though I do think the Volt is a great vehicle), but this is not looking good at all.
+38
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:14 am)I thoght gm killed the cadilac converj but apparently they rebadged it a chevy and kept the price
seriously though that is more than I am willing to spend but to get off oil is probably worth the price. I think the price must be driving the production numbers. Good luck gm. This car will be at the topof my when I win the lottery list
+34
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:14 am)Yup. A smashing engineering success by the engineers has been knocked down a few pegs by the accountants.
+15
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:14 am)I think there was probably a lot more thought put into this than we realize. I’m just not sure what their end goal is. Looks to me like they want people to lease this vehicle. It may be too expensive for an average person to buy, but it isn’t too much for them to lease. I expect that is what most people will end up doing. I’m just curious why GM would prefer to have people lease than buy…any thoughts people?
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:15 am)Expensive indeed, but I hope GM will sell a lot – for me I will lease the Ampera when possible in Sweden if the competitors are still behind:-)
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:15 am)This car is in such demand this is probably the right price… demand will set the price … that’s the way it’s supposed to be… If I get the chance of getting one .. I would.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:16 am)> To significantly reduce emissions & consumption in a reliable & cost-effective manner.
That purpose needs to be taken seriously now.
+32
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:16 am)Allow me to take this opportunity to welcome all the new members of “The Gen II Club.” Remember our motto: “All things come to those who wait.” We’ll be scheduling our quarterly “Teeth gnashing & wailing” get-together later this month.
No, I was never in the running for Gen I, but I’d hoped that more people would be.
The question most of us must now ask is: “Will the Voltec program survive it’s first year,” or “Will there be a Gen II or III?” I think the answer has to be
YES.
GM will sell all 10K (and maybe more) at this price. Just not to us.
The good thing about being forced to wait is that tomorrow’s Volt will be better and cheaper. The bad thing is going to be enduring another couple of years of heavy-duty Troll @#$%.
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:17 am)Ouch! I was holding out hope that we’d be surprised with a lower than expected price. Guess not.
+9
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:17 am)Hi all,
It looks like GM is taking the Tax Rebate as a profit. I said a few posting ago, I bet without a tax rebate, the price would be around $33,000
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:17 am)Too exorbitant. GM blew it. I’m going to hold out and see what Toyota/Tesla comes up with.
I wonder how much Big Oil is subsidizing the automakers to suppress progress on electric vehicles. They’ve had 150+ years to perfect the technology and make it affordable. There are old newspaper ads from the mid-1800s advertising electric cars. This is a pity.
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:17 am)A disappointment.
No matter what people do look at price.
Lease may be the better option.
We will see what kind a demand is generated.
Will this be a Camaro Moment?
+13
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:18 am)I was going to put this in yesterday’s thread, but comments closed. As the issues all still apply here are some observations:
1) Premium fuel. Not surprising. As most seem to understand, aging fuel is the issue. At one point, I know it was being bantered at GM that they might have to come up with some mechanism to burn off fuel, as it would sit in the tank too long and get stale. Volatility is the issue, and the stuff your cars want is the octane (C8H18) (8 for oct-). Hence, the octane rating. The octane wants to boil off, so it is a no-brainer that they dictate you start with more of it via premium fuel.
2) LED lights. It is foolish to desire regular lights when LEDs are available. There is a reason your regular headlights melted the snow- because so much of the energy is WASTED as heat. Do you want to drive less miles every day on pure electric so you can melt snow just in the winter? In my home, I have replaced all bulbs I can with LEDs- we’re talking 90% less electricity and decades worth of longevity.
3) $7500 tax credit. If you have heard of the phrases, ‘Alternative Minimum Tax’ and ‘refundable credit’, you know there are strings attached to this money. This is not ‘Send in your UPC bar codes and we will mail you a check’. The previous hybrid tax credits were linked to AMT (although I am pretty sure I read that this new credit avoids that HUGE drawback) and I got burned as NY property tax deductions ensured that I ran into the AMT wall. The solar tax credits I had were not refundable, meaning that if you don’t pay enough tax you carry them forward until you do pay enough tax to be offset by the credit. Understand the ramifications for ROTH IRA retirees. They might have a boatload of money, but no taxes!! This means that the electric vehicle credit is no benefit whatsoever. GM should NOT use this credit as part of their calculations in determining sale price, as there is no guarantee this money will be forthcoming to the buyer. It sets them up for lawsuits if they use the figure in their sales pitches.
4) 220 Charger. I asked this question outright during the GM Volt chat session. I asked why you would need a charger if the Volt would have the charging control circuitry built in. The point is you don’t HAVE to get the charger. It was explained about the communication circuitry, safety, etc. But there is nothing stopping you from buying the proper parts at Home Depot and fabricating the connection yourself. It is advantageous to have the charging wall unit, but the premium price (I think it was supposed to run $1600) makes me wonder if most won’t just forego the option and rig up a 220 connection on their own.
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:18 am)Here’s what I don’t get; it’s based on a Cruze platform. A fully loaded Cruze is still $20K cheaper than the Volt. Are the Volt’s electric motors and battery really $20K all by themselves, even after eliminating the cost of the Cruze transmission?
+33
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:18 am)I’ve spent 3 years pursuing the Volt. I even got to see it at the GM design and technology event last summer. I even told some of the exces and engineers riding with us what I would be willing to pay for a Volt- which was somewhere in the lower to mid-30′s max. But $41,000?
I’m sorry GM, but this is unacceptable. Yes- we who are well-aware of electric vehicles realize this is a totally different car. But the car looks like a Honda Civic, and the general public will find it difficult to cough up $41,000 for a car that looks like a Civic yet costs the same as an Audi A4.
There is no way in hell I will pay $40,000 for this or any car. I make a pretty good 6-figure income, but $40,000 for a car is obscene in my eyes. At that price it would seriously still be way the hell better to just buy a Honda Fit and wait for the cost of electric cars to come down to more reasonable levels.
As you can tell, I’m extremely disappointed. GM- You have GOT to lower that price. I more than anyone else wants to see you succeed with this. But 40k is a a stretch.
+12
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:19 am)To buy all the high end options and state and local taxes = $50K for the Volt
It looks like GM wants most people to lease instead of buy this car. Then, if there are any real problems with the car, they can take them all back.
I do not think I am a conspiracy type person, but does that sound familiar??????????
I guess I am out until Gen-II. So maybe I am not so unlucky not to be in the limited release area after all…………………
$50K for a car is just more than I am willing to spend. I guess I will just drive my Crossfire until it dies.
I know they will still sell every one of the first 10K units, even at these prices. But the 2012 model year will be a different story. Maybe that is why they will only make 30K units!
Very disappointing to say the least.
I wonder what the CS mileage will be???? Then all my questions will be answered.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:20 am)Data collection and limiting exposure to risk.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:20 am)A dose of commercial reality. Personally, 33K net is very reasonable for all the new tech that is crammed into this vehicle, what it can do, and the lack of current competitors, let alone the risk GM is taking. Seriously, a fully loaded Prius V costs that much with decade older tech. And the lease is EXTREMELY attractive and afterwards there’ll be cheaper next gen volts.
Don’t see how anyone can criticize this price point without knowing a) how much they take to build @ quantity & b) what the market really is for these (it’s all just projections right now, highly unknown). Nissan is way out on a limb as they’ve already admitted.
If you drive around 40 miles every day this is definitely worth looking at especially with the lease.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:21 am)I was wondering about GM’s strategy for the IPO. Releasing the Volt at 41K and selling out the entire years allocation immediately has got to look good for the future if your’e an investor. Along with tons of Equinoxes and Camaros going out at over 40K according to CorvetteGuy. Investors should like the potential to sell their IPO stocks for a profit based on GM’s ability to grow margins. That must of looked a lot better to the folks in accounting than Ed Whitacre’s claims of low thirties.
Oh well on to Gen II.
+17
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:21 am)Wow. I guessed low. A four-seat compact car for $41K. Amazing.
Well, they’ll sell 10K in 2011, I think, but this explains why they won’t need to build more than 30K in 2012.
It will be most interesting to see how the PHEV Prius prices out.
+10
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:21 am)Well, we told them over and over that demand would be much greater than supply. What happens when supply is low and demand is high? Prices go up.
One look at my bank account tells me I’m firmly in the Gen 2 boat now. But despite the price tag, every single one of those cars will sell within weeks. I’m sad for me, but happy for Volt.
+11
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:22 am)No wonder they are only building 10,000 of them. The competition would have eaten GM’s lunch if they make more than that.
#9 Ditto — I think there are cheaper solutions out there. I am priced out.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:22 am)Comparing the Lincoln MKS hybrid to the Volt: The Volt will be less money, by $1500 if purchased, factoring in the $7500 tax credit.
Now we all have the information we need to make our own personal economic decision. It’s not realistic to believe the Volt was going to be priced for EVERYONE to afford it. They are only making 10,000 of these in the next year.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:23 am)Even if you’re generally not a lease person this particular lease really is a “no-brainer”. Should be interesting to see how they managed to get a $42K car down to this level. For a $42K car you’d expect lease payments in the $450 – $500 range. But sometimes it’s just easier to go with the flow and not to look a gift horse in the mouth.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:23 am)What makes you think this isn’t @ a loss for GM?
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:23 am)Like many of you, I too am disappointed in the price. However, if I am lucky enough to get one of the first Volts, I will take the lease option and return the car in three years. By then, the Gen II version will be out and no doubt the price will likely be more affordable at that time. Also, by then, I’m sure there will be more competition and therefore, more choices.
+15
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:24 am)This is a colossal disapointment! I was hoping for anything under $35K, but not even under $40k?!?
I would have preferred a Volt, but Nissan here I come.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:26 am)The price seems a little steep, but in the long run is probably a really good price. After all there will only be !0,000 of these cars and there is a lot of demand.
I fully expect the 2012 model to be cheaper than this 2011 model.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:26 am)Wow! Talk about missed opportunity. GM could have saved face and regained a lot of consumer good will by meeting even the highest end of their 3rd upwardly revised estimate for price ($35-$40K). So for $1K/car ($40M for the first 2 years of production), they blew it and blew a lot of credibility in the process. Such a shame. Every dollar north of $35K starts losing early adopters. Every dollar north of $4K more than the Leaf starts significantly losing buyers that considered both a viable option. Every dollar north of $6K more than a reasonably equipped Prius starts losing customers that look at both cars.
On the bright side, the lease is good and will probably allow them to sell out the first 2 years. Only 3 yr lease, no 5 year? How many miles/yr? Restrictions on E-miles?
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:28 am)Now serving number 7…. Number 7 please…. If everyone would just form a single file line, I’ll get to you just as quick as I can!!!!!
+11
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:28 am)POSTED earlier today ……update!
What is the competition for the VOLT today?
Ford Fusion Hybrid ~ $28,100 to $28,800 before Ford announces removal of hybrid premium
Prius ~ $32,000 fully loaded
Leaf ~ $32,780 standard config.
New competitor!!!! – 2011 Lincoln MKS hybrid at just over $35,000
Will the pricing of today’s VOLT reflect these realities or will they push the envelope?
LOOKS LIKE GM WANTS TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE. The only brighter option seems be leasing… but how many miles?????
Early adopters are willing to jump in but they generally are not stupid if the pricing is in gouge territory.
The “average” person will also make these comparisons and …. SEE 41,000 to 44,000 then look at the options above….. Prius at basic config is a lot less and Ford Fusion is a lot less. the LEAF is in the ball park if you need a car that needs no range extension.
Will be a lot of fun to see how it all plays today. :+] “Play” is not as fun now.
Looks like the “Old GM” is still alive.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:29 am)I’m surprised and disappointed by the announced MSRP. Not that it matters much because I don’t live near a early sales area, and I’ve always been leery of driving to Detroit to buy a car.
However, a high price may be a “fair” method to control early demand when the supply isn’t available. This pricing strategy may be more like the cost of a new electronic gadget than of the traditional car market. The early adopters get to pay the freight as production ramps up. And a lot of shenanigans with dealer waiting lists, special favors, etc., may go away at this price. There probably won’t be a lot of “added dealer markup” at that price.
If GM decides to increase production down the road, then lowering the price can bring back the demand.
One worrisome idea, if most of the early cars are leased, then GM can claw back the Volt just like it did the EV1.
+9
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:30 am)$41000 for a chevy???? NUTS!
+11
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:31 am)People, please cheer up. There are TONS of vehicles out there that are sold for much more money than this and all they provide is snob appeal. This is ground breaking technology; it will cost more. If you have been complaining all along that the idea is to get off of (foreign) (planet killing) oil, then stand your ground. Do not buy a (non hybrid) gas alternative in defiance. Stay the course. Either hold out for the (presumably cheaper) next iteration of the Volt or see what competitors have to offer in electric drives. In a couple years, the sky will be the limit. Whatever you do, tell yourself ‘No Plug, No Sale’.
+10
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:32 am)What worries me is that if the loyal Volt supporters are disappointed and opting out of Gen 1 what will the general public think? Will the Gen 1 Volt be a smashing success? If not then there is no Gen 2. This is scary.
+20
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:32 am)I too am deeply disappointed. This price is over the top! Not sure what GM is intending to do by pricing it at $41K but this solidly places me out of the Volt market. I have to imagine there are a lot of others who feel the same.
My wife and I both have a good jobs, with good pay and no bills including being mortgage free but to pay $41K for the Volt when I can purchase a Prius or Leaf (and I know they ain’t the same so go ahead an flame away) however the price differential is simply too great. And I have to believe that for the majority who have been active on this site and even those who have been just lurking this was quite a disappointment.
Where are you Statik??
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:32 am)Was there any info on when the first customer can expect delivery?
(that person better share their MyVolt page too)
(considering buying the domain name Voltbook.com..hmm)
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:33 am)And if you want to drive your Leaf from Georgia to Virginia you better take a week off work and reserve all the camper sites with electrical outlets on the way.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:33 am)Now…just wait for it…
“send inthe trolls, there has to be trolls (everybody sing along!!)
they will sell every one they make, leasing is a better option for consumers and GM as they will get them back (most likely) for real world information. many will choose that option for pricing vs buying.
I hoped for lower, but this is cool. comparisons? fusion hybrid? not hte same tech, ditto for lincoln or anything else…
BEV are totally different. the plug in Prius? lets see the AER, (rumoured to be 12 miles, less than 1/3).
there will be no shortage of takers for gen 1.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:33 am)They probably priced it this way on purpose so that most people won’t want to spend that kind of money on a car. The 41K pricing is too much for most people, and they’ll lease it instead.
GM never wanted to sell an electric car. This pricing scheme just proves it. Once those leases are done, GM takes back the cars – calls it a disaster and kills the product, just like last time.
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:33 am)OK, the dream is over. 41K & taxes & dealer Markup – $7500 is well over 40K. And that is beyond my price point. Anybody want my slot at the local Dealer.
My Wife will not let me buy another Ford after all the trouble our Freestyle gives us. So as much as it pains my Patriotic American Hart I guess a Japanese / Korean it will be
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:33 am)Anyone know lease terms? how many miles included? does the $350 price include taxes?
-6
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:33 am)Turns out what you thought were trolls were just contributors with an above-average grasp of reality.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:34 am)… at the end of three years they can crush them all. History repeating?
Let’s hope that’s not the case though.
join thE REVolution
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:34 am)When I initially was told that my Volt would not arrive until March of 2011, I was fairly disappointed. But this will give me time to put more money into the piggy bank. Don’t know how much dealer prep is, guessing $400, but sales tax in MI is %6, so that is really close to $2,500 (hopefully that is also deductibe on federal income taxex). And March is close to tax time. Sitll, it will be some extra effort, but if this is not worth it, I don’t know what is.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:35 am)I didn’t really expect them to have an MSRP of $32,000 like the Leaf is priced. That would have been awesome. However … I did think that GM would surprise us with an MSRP of $37,000 at least though. I would have been fairly happy with $35,000. Oh well. This $41,000 price is disappointing. It’s like the prices of HDTVs were in the first year they came out. You wanted one badly, but you just couldn’t swing it if you didn’t have the extra money in your budget.
Maybe GM is trying to convince people to LEASE instead of buy for this 2011 model. Maybe the purchase price will drop a good bit for the 2012 model, which I hear will go on sale in the summer of 2011.
Leasing might be a good decision anyway since electric car technology will be changing pretty quickly over the next 5 years or so. I guess everyone better start saving a little more each month. That $2,500 down payment for the lease isn’t so bad if you’ve been saving a couple hundred or so each month over the past year.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:36 am)You should work on your reading comprehension, the leases offer the option to buy the car at the end of the lease.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:36 am)The Gen II club will sustain this website for another 3 years !
Talking the wifey into a Gen I lease now :>)
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:37 am)We can cut, shred, rip apart Toyota for just about everything.
But what they are not, is dumb. They are a highly successful company.
My bet is they will come significantly under $41,000.
They don’t have to prove anything to the American people as they are already convinced of Toyota quality. Sadly, GM holds the other side of that perception.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:37 am)$41K + Dealer destination charges.
Then what is the CS mode mpg? It better be the 50mpg “bogey” Andrew Farah has always said it was reaching for.
lol….
EV1…..it was lease only.
Volt…..only financially feasible option IS TO LEASE.
See the parallelism?
+10
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:37 am)Corvettes are in the Mid 50′s
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:38 am)I wish logic would prevail with these posts: As we all know and have burned in our brains, GM is only building 10,000 units this coming year and only 30,000 the next. By that time, Gen II will be out and probably cost less
You are ready to take orders! LOL. I’ve bet you have been waiting for this day for quite some time.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:38 am)It’s absolutely NOT the case, the lease comes with the option to buy.
-7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:38 am)GM put a “low” number because they want to have another EV-1, once you rent it, you must return after lease ends, that is why they set high price for purchase because buyer can’t be forced to return it.
GM is doomed! Another EV-1 is in the making
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:38 am)traverse, silcerado, corvette, tahoe, suburban, avalanche loaded Equinox, loaded impala,
Lots of Chevs North of 40. Not for a vehicle this size mind you, but then again for game changing technology?
a comparably equipped Prius is about 33k, so what the biggie here folks?
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:39 am)Sure only if you ignore the option to buy in the lease terms.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:39 am)I think I’m even more disappointed than when GM moved away from the original concept design. And I think what’s really the most disappointing is that unlike the latest and greatest electronics tech/toys/gadgets, you just know the price for gen 2 and 3 won’t be dropping like the price of PC’s and HDTV’s did.
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:39 am)Yes, why the huge discrepancy between purchase and lease? I think even people with ready cash will consider the lease. $350 * 36 months = $12600. That means they consider the car still to be worth about $29k after 3 years. Highly unrealistic. We all expect Gen II to be available for close to this price. Would you buy a new Gen II for $33k with new warranty or a used Gen I for $29k? That brings us to two possibilities, 1) Gen II price will be significantly higher, 2) They really are planning to re-possess and crush after all. I don’t really believe in option 2, so the Gen II will be over $35k. I guess this is just reality and it does cost GM this much to make Volts.
Suddenly the production estimates of 10k for 2011 and 30k for 2012 look much more realistic. There really won’t be more demand.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:40 am)He’s here.
http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/07/27/leaf-remains-the-ev-for-the-people-as-chevrolet-prices-the-volt-like-a-cadillac-starts-at-41000/
+12
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:40 am)The Nissan Leaf folks must be dancing in their offices today. They are going to absolutely bury GM with this pricing mis-step. They are already dominating the social media, buzz marketing and commercial (Lance Armstrong anyone?) lead up to their release. Now they have been handed the whole BP weary EV market on a silver platter. Too bad, GM could have really knocked it out of the park with an affordable MSRP. But I’m afraid they will be reduced to an asterisk on the EV revolution now.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:41 am)Well, I’m disappointed, but maybe it isn’t THAT bad. We paid $30k for our G6 convertible, and this is only a few thousand more. I guess I’ll see how I feel about it after a night’s sleep. The lease probably wouldn’t work–I’m at around 90 miles a day.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:41 am)Yeah, but:
Some Volts will still be purchased outright. Just not by any of us.
IF most Volts will be leased then crushed, what will those remaining Volts be worth in a few years? Jay Leno take note …
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:41 am)ANL has already been testing OEM’d PHEV Prius.
They will price it very close to that $41K. maybe $38K. That’s the common approach of “If they can sell their product for $xxxx then we can sell ours for a little less but still make a profit while undercutting them”.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:42 am)Sorry for the reading comprehension thing I just realized this article doesn’t included the information.
I have read at another site the the lease included the option to buy, so people can quit freaking out about the lease issue.
-9
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:42 am)Actually, a $33K Prius has features the Volt lacks. And you can get the very desireable solar sunroof option (another feature the Volt lacks) for significantly less than $30K. And you can get them today, with proven reliability.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:44 am)Many things to consider here:
1. Lyle: please stay on top of your contacts at GM to publish the number of people who have paid deposits for the Volt nationwide in the coming weeks. These reservation numbers will ultimately tell us of the Volt’s demand at this price point.
2. Equally important, we need to pay close attention to the number of new LEAF deposits that come in over the next few weeks as well. I believe that there are a number of people whom are either anti-foreign oil or eco-minded, and they will be happy with either car. At this price point, if we see a strong uptick in LEAF reservations over the next two or three weeks, then that indicates that those who would be happy with either car (but were holding out to hear the Volt price) may have gone the other way.
On the flip side, if LEAF reservations drastically fall-off, then that’s a great sign for the Volt. 
3. For everyone who has been disappointed with GM’s decision to do a limited roll-out of 10,000 Volts this first year, we now see why. This price point is what most Volt enthusiasts expected, but it is cost prohibitive (after all, $40,000 will buy you a new, base model Mercedes).
4. I am glad GM has priced the Volt at $41,000 because I want the company to make money (well, at least not lose money). They’ve been bailed-out once recently, let’s keep it at that.
5. $41,000 will sell 10,000 Volts, I’m not certain about 30,000, but if we want the Volt to be at the 100,000/year production range, the price must come down. I think that GM’s biggest gamble here is that the Volt and the LEAF will increase battery production enough to the point that the price for them drops drastically in the next few years, and hopefully that will result in a 2012/2013 Volt that costs $35,000 before any tax credit (which, hopefully, will still apply at that point or be renewed). In short, this is not a mass adoption price, but it’s important to remember that it’s not going to be a mass adoption car at least for the next few years either.
That’s what I’ve got, feel free to “plus or minus” me at will…
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:44 am)Interesting point.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:46 am)OK, I know this seems OT on a day like today, but I just read an article that claims a company named AFS Trinity is building Ultracapacitors that will be used in the Chevy Volt primarily for the regenerative braking system. Anybody? Lyle? A little help…
+11
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:46 am)Sometimes it’s easier to take a new way when it’s easier rather than trying to stay on an old path. In any event the Volt is about as expensive as a Toyota Avalone, which I’ll try to explain below.
Well a lease on the MKS is about $600/month. Why? Because the MKS is expected to depreciate much faster than the Volt. And this is important for the following reason.
It’s hard to overemphasize the role depreciation plays in the cost of owning a car. Take two cars. One has an MSRP of $50K. One has an MSRP of $30K. At the end of three years the first car has a resale value of $40K. The second car has resale value of $15K. Which car has cost less? Which car would it have been better to own?
In the example of the MKS and the Volt, the MKS is going to cost you $9K more over three years. And since the lease payments represent the best estimate of actual depreciation, the lease payments are telling you that the Volt will cost you a lot less to own than a MKS, and the lease offered by GM is allowing you to recognize that savings on a monthly basis. IOW the MSRP is an important number but it’s not the most important number.
Cars are not like houses, which have a decent chances of appreciating in nominal terms over time. They’re simply depreciating objects.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:47 am)I guess I’m out of the early adopter pool for sure. Doesn’t work for me. Not when I’m only filling my small SUV every other week. Just have to see what it costs a few years down the road. Just the sales tax and first year’s property tax would eat up most of that $7500.00 tax rebate.
We still don’t know the mileage after charge depletion either.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:48 am)Lots of “unknowns” on that Lease Program according to Sales Manager and Finance Manager here. Info sent out so far is vague, but it appears that the $350 per month lease ‘includes’ the Federal Tax Credit, much like what we read about Nissan doing on their LEAF lease. But since they are not absolutely sure, I am told to hold off on lease quotes being in stone.
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:50 am)Actually it’s a BS point. GM has made clear that you can buy the car for its residual at the end of the lease, which is typical for leases BTW. The lease payments are simply the the difference between the purchase price and the residual. What the low number is telling you is that GM strongly believes in the product so it’s willing to assume a high residual.
-8
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:52 am)The criticisms of this price point sound almost communist to me.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:53 am)They are only producing 40,000 of these cars over the next two years. Let the elitists and Hollywood types pay the price. The Volt is not a car for the average person at this time. Lets see how serious they are about this technology in a couple years. They really won’t have a choice but to produce this technology at an affordable price in a couple years because there will be a lot more choices by then. Then the average person will be able to get their hands on this type of technology. Whether thats GM or someone else is of on consequence.
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:54 am)I would’ve bet $39,999.
I am #1 on my dealer’s list so it’s just a matter of buy or lease. I’m not a lease guy, but this seems attractive. I will check out the lease to buy terms and make up my mind.
You don’t think they’re doing the attractive lease thing so they can pull an EV-1…?
+12
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:55 am)Good thing that nobody around here overreacts to anything, eh?
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:57 am)Yes it seems they wanted to get 1,640,000,000 for the 40,000 volts they will have for sale. Thats one billion 6 hundred forty million dollars. Get back their R&D money it seems.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:57 am)The mainstream media is how most of America will hear about the Volt’s price, is this is what CNN just posted:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/27/autos/volt_price/index.htm
The article doesn’t appear to be critical, and it claims that the lease price is a match to the price of purchase for the LEAF. So far, so good for GM.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:00 pm)GM-Volt.com is getting some love right now from the New York Times. Here’s a quote from their story on the Volt’s pricing which is up on their website now:
“As of Tuesday, 52,464 people in all 50 states and 97 countries had joined an unofficial waiting list at the Web site gm-volt.com, which is not affiliated with G.M. The average price the waitlist members said they were willing to pay for the vehicle is $31,437.88, more than $2,000 below the amount it will cost after the tax credit.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/business/28volt.html?_r=1&hp
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:00 pm)The lease would end up being about $250/mo (for most people) if you factor in fuel savings. Something most people seem to be forgetting about.
Also…though GM might be working hard to decrease the cost of the Gen II, I doubt they’ll be able to decrease the cost by $7500 (the amount of the tax credit)…so you won’t gain anything by waiting.
I’ve said before: The Gen I battery will probably be one of the best engineered battery systems available. Gen II will cut out a lot of cost possibly including the heating/cooling system. I bet we’ll see much more calendar longevity out of the Gen I….but we’ll have to wait to see if I’m right or wrong on that one.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:01 pm)Yes 40,000 Volts in 2 years @ 41k= One billion 6 hundred & 40 million dollars. Get back your R&D dollars it seems on the first 2 years of sales. Thank you GM.
-10
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:02 pm)(click to show comment)
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:02 pm)The dissapointing part of this is that this means that even at GEN 2, it is likely the price will still list in the mid to upper 30′s. But, also the tax credit will eventually run out, so not only does the price need to drop, but it must also drop below what that after credit cost of today ($33,500).
So, eventually they need to get the MSRP “comforably” below $33k in the future, to even beat todays $41k price. I just do not see this happening on GEN 2 or 3.
The added cost for the range extender is just such a burden, that will always command a higher price than a BEV. So, based on the Leaf vs. Volt pricing, the range extender imposes about $7,000 of overhead. For some it is worth it, for me not so much.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:05 pm)I want leather and the backup camera & sensor. What colors are available, and how much will you give me for my trade (Blk 2006 Civic EX 4-Dr, 39,500 miles, clean car fax (no door dings –iexcellent condition). Oh yeah, do you deliver to DC?
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:05 pm)If the lease option has an early buyout provision, and, if there was a way to have the tax credit value passed onto the customer at time of buyout, then the lease is an incredibly good idea.
Since I drive 19,800 miles a year, and, since leases generally have mileage limitations, I would need to be able to buy out at around the one year mark because of that.
The 41,000 dollar figure plus tax and the extended bumper to bumper warranty would place a retail sale just beyond my reach, (since I have to competitively run my business margins so tightly, I would not be able to get the tax credit in a retail sale), but a lease with option to buy with the tax credit value entirely subtracted from the buyout sale would work.
(The high annual mileage would be related at least in part to my/(your?) going around every day promoting the Volt (how could anyone **possibly** stay home??) (trust that one, as I drove the Volt already), so, that fact ought to be somehow realized that active promoters are really working for GM in a very very direct way, and in that first year, could actually be earning that credit).
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:06 pm)OT, but I almost bought that car. Do you still like it, and do u have any problems w/the automatic convertible roof?
Regarding the Volt, 90 miles/day, the Volt may not be the best car anyway. However you would have been getting 40miles of electric (possibly both ways).
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:06 pm)Fortunatley, this aspect of the Volt is mostly controlled by the engineers and not the accounts nor marketing.
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:08 pm)Per GM’s website, Chevy vehicles with a starting $41K over MSRP…
’10 Corvette ZR1 MSRP $108,180-$118,180
’10 Corvette Convertible MSRP $53,580-$69,480
’10 Corvette Z06 MSRP $75,585-$82,755
’10 Tahoe Hybrid MSRP $50,720-$53,525
’10 Corvette Coupe MSRP $48,930-$56,635
’10 Suburban 3/4 ton MSRP $42,245-$48,580
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:08 pm)Toyota’s in the business of building affordable cars. I’d guess the PHEV Prius will be about $5-6K more than a similarly optioned non-PHEV Prius. And it will qualify for a tax credit. Net price for a PHEV Prius with few options may be under $27K. Yes, it’s a guess but I think it’s a good one.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:08 pm)Perhaps it’s time for a poll on the impact this price announcement has on those who are on this sites wish-list. A) Still a buyer. B) No longer interested.
+26
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:08 pm)Too much whining. I’ll buy one at this price and sacrifice somewhere else. We all need to pay a little more to get off of oil and other fossil fuels. What is the cost of the gulf oil spill? The spill in China? The spill in Africa? Increasingly volatile weather patterns?
If everyone continues to have a “walmart” attitude of I want it all and I want it cheap, nothing will change. Time for our country and the world to grow up and realize we all have to make different decisions and accept the trade offs.
Now let the flaming and name calling begin.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:09 pm)At the announced purchase prices, the dreamers without cash are out. But into a lease, so all is well enough.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:10 pm)I’m not sure if I smell the blue hair at the nursery home of the Old GM or not. I’ve never flamed GM at all on any previous posts. I’ve been an excited, enthusiastic supporter. The engineering is phenominal and groundbreaking. The price announcement however is a complete downer. Unless prices fall dramatically in two generations this car will not be the groundbreaking game-changer we were all hoping it would be (reduction of oil use by a large percentage of the population). It’s hard to imagine that GM could cut $10,000 out of the cost of the car in two generations when we know that’s basically the entire cost of the battery packs. 41K to 44K was the price I was hoping people would pay after large dealer markups, not the foundation for the future sales of the vehicle line.
So, assuming some price shavings in future generations, where do you see this going? Hypothetically speaking, let’s say GM cuts thermal management from the battery packs ($2K), sees a marked improvement in battery costs and contracting (~20%, maybe $2K), and figures that they can cut some other corners in the cabin or otherwise. I don’t see them saving any money by changing engine architecture (already using off the shelf GM engine) or otherwise. So, Gen 2 (or maybe 3) could cost $37K. How much lower could they go? Maybe in Gen 3 or 4 the battery price is half of what it is now? That would put the cost around 34K maybe in Gen 4 realistically?
In former days on this site, people tallied up the basic costs of the car body and engine and then forecasted the added costs of the voltec technology to try to figure out price. One of the things not accounted for in this methodolgy is the cost of R&D. I’m hoping that’s where $41K price is coming from. Since the math above doesn’t work out otherwise for cost reduction (unless you are adding in some R&D cost recuperation), I can only *hope* by Gen 3, Volt pricing is more in line with Prius pricing and accessible for the masses. And by that I mean “comfortably under $30K”. And what happened to that statement about being “pleasantly surprised” with the pricing? I guess Ed Whitacre didn’t exert enough influence on the Accountants or GM felt like the market was different than previously expected or….?
And BTW, What happened with the IPO? I thought they were going to wait until after the IPO to announce pricing?
+8
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:11 pm)Plan B. In 3 years there are going to be some deals on just off-lease Volts to be had
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:11 pm)Way to create a list like it’s six separate cars, when four of them are corvettes.
+12
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:12 pm)$41k?
This is the first time I’ve seen a number mentioned above $40k and of course it turns out to be the real number. Very suprising, especially since they’ve stated the price of the Volt would be impacted by the price of gas. (Meaning, the more gas cost, the more they can probably get for the Volt.) Well gas is realatively cheap right now and here they are pricing the car higher then any number I’ve seen to date.
It’s a very disappointing number for a person who doesn’t believe in leasing vehicals.
I’m completely turned off by this news.
In fact this is the second time this year I’ve been turned off by “Chevrolet”.
First I was excited for news on a new Impala and hoped it would compete with the Taurus, but it looks like it’s going to be a RWD vehicle, which I’m sure some will love, but the American full size car market could use another AWD car. I hoped the Impala would be it. It’s not.
Now this.
I hoped the Volt would appeal to the masses, but at $41k it won’t.
I’m sure they’ll sell or lease the ones they make, but what the hell happened to competing with Prius? Is it really trying to compete when it’s priced about 50% higher then the Prius V?
Did I mention I was disappointed and turned off.
I believe I’m now done with the Volt for the forseable futue.
In full disclosure, I wasn’t planning on buying a Gen 1 version anyway, being that I still have younins in car seats, but I was damn sure pulling for it.
I’ll pull for Gen II also, but I certainly won’t be logging in daily to read the latest news.
This sort of feels like a “Casey at the Bat” moment. As far as I’m concerned, Casey again has struck out. Is that too much? Sorry, but I had high hopes. $32k would have been a homerun. Sure, they wouldn’t haven’t been able to meet the demand but they could have boosted their post bailout public image. Instead, they price the Volt at $41k, which I personnally think looks like they were only looking out for #1. I’m not saying they shouldn’t, but where was that 5 years ago, and in the long run, (assuming a few others think like me) I think this strategy hurts them more then it helps them.
One bummed out fan of American cars…signing off.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:12 pm)Too much. Not even gas savings make it worth it for me. The lease does seem like the much better deal.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:12 pm)For 36 months at $350 we are looking at:
$ 12,600
+ 2,500 due at signing
———-
15,100 + license, registration and taxes.
In Connecticut, we don’t pay sales tax on the Volt.
Leaf neither. We do pay it on regular ICE cars though if they get less than 40 MPG
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:12 pm)I would like to know what kind of deaal the government is getting. Will they be buying or leasing? and at what cost?
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:13 pm)The bright side is that the lease price is VERY low.
Even if the Lease price was higher, it would be a difficult decision to lease vs. buy, since you have all the questions/issues with the batteries and other new technology.
I expect at least 80% of sales of the Volt will be leased. You always have a few that insist on owning.
BTW: I am NOT a lease guy, but in this situation it makes so much sense, you would almost be insane not to lease.
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:14 pm)This does sound way too much like the EV-1. It is probably the reason Bob Lutz left for retirement. Once he heard the price thye were going to ask for the Volt he said I’m outa here. Well it seems I will need to call up my dealer and cancel my order. At least I will get my deposit back. $37500 was my upperlimit. Even with 5 years of onstar. I had anticipation and determination building for all the years GM-Volt.com was around only to be disappointed by a price way out of the market. It was the first GM car i was interested in since my 1970 Pontiac Catalina. Before 1970 all I bought was GM now I have to look at the Leaf i guess. Dazed and confused.
Take Care,
TED
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:14 pm)Well, I was steeling myself for $40K, hoping that all of the people predicting down in the 30s were right, but expecting to option it way up somehow into the mid-40s anyway. $41K is a bit of a surprise, but on the other hand, the base car has a lot of stuff that I thought would be optional.
Back in February, my guess was $47,950 with what I thought the option content and prices would be. http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4246 Guess I’ll have to save $48K after all.
+8
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:15 pm)OH NO!!!! The most technically advanced automobile ever built is 41,000 dollars year one! Oh no, a company that just emerged from bankruptcy isn’t going to sell a car at a big loss!! Oh no, we might have to wait 5 years for it to be around 30k!!
This price makes sense. I’m glad to see them not underpricing this masterpiece. Sometimes, putting a premium on things makes them look more appealing.
Who doesn’t want a Ferrari because it’s out of there price range. I guarantee you if Ferrari could make a fast beautiful car next year for 30 thousand they’d sell more in one year than they have the last ten.
Don’t overreact people.
-13
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:17 pm)(click to show comment)
+9
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:17 pm)One other thing. The Volt is priced a lot like the new Cadillac CTS coupe, the car I have serious lust for. Given similar costs (OK within a few $K), I’m still going for the stick-it-to-OPEC-mobile.
+10
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:17 pm)Then you are clueless about what “free speech” means.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:17 pm)In other news… Nissan just announce they will offer the same 8yr 100,000mile warranty for the LEAF as GM is for the Volt
This is a bit of a surprise as I think most expected it to be less, more like 5yr/80,000miles
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:19 pm)I believe that’s the point.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:20 pm)At this point, I suspect that Toyota has a lot to prove to the American public…Especially when it comes to quality.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:20 pm)TOO MUCH…I haven’t commented for months and I have many reasons as to why I have slowly faded away from this blog and to more extent this car (well at least Gen1 and probably even Gen2 now)…
Over 1 year ago…after finally physically seeing the Volt at the NY Auto Show I told myself 2 things…
1) It will be very difficult to move from my beloved BMW into this (my first) GM product – BUT I still wanted to do it (at that time)…
2) Looking at the Volt, its styling, its size and whatnot… if they ask more than $40k I will have to first look into another Bimmer, maybe even clean diesel if I can afford it, before making the move to GM and to Voltec.
So here I am and I have already jumped the gun and purchased a new (to me) BMW. I feel as though I have cheated on my “freedom from oil” self because not only did I get an ’06 BMW but I went backwards on fuel efficiency by getting an M3 !!! (used to have the basic 3 series)…
…I am a typical American jerk who is using more fossil fuel now instead of less… I am sorry for that… but I am having a hell of a lot of fun with my SMG tranny!!!
Someday I will make the right choice…. just not yet
Good luck to all who go for Gen1 !!! I will still be reading…..
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:20 pm)… and I don’t think for a second that most Volts will be leased, then crushed. What would be the point if some Volts will be purchased outright?
I bolded, italicised and all-capped “IF” (time to lobby Lyle again for “underline” tag support?).
… and NO, I will not lease any car.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:21 pm)With sales tax and seller’s premiums pushing 50 g’s VOLT is out of reach but for the targeted upper middle income ($125,000/yr.) home owners. Nothing wrong with that. (Assuming a general rule of thumb being 15% of after-tax income for transportation.) However, today this site expresses its great disappointment – GM’s competitors are dancing on the table.
Here in California the $7500 tax credit is diminished by a sales tax 8.25% the highest in the U.S. plus in certain areas a supplementary tax. For example 9.75% in Sacramento. Whereas on the other hand, GM leasing plan which certainly connotes decent value down stream is taxed in California at 10% (short term leasing)
No one here doubts VOLT outselling its 2011 production. Maybe that’s part of the pricing strategy. GM has proven an ER EV market – its MSRP near 50 g’s a really big bullseye – its ears down for competition a bunch.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:23 pm)I brought this up in a previous thread about the 10K Volts to be produced. For all of you going to buy (bless your soul) or Lease, you will be buying from a pool of 10K – 2500 (Government and Municipal sales). So technically, all of you will be fighting for 7500 Volts the first year.
Of course that is if there was any truth to a previous thread here about the government and utilities buying Volts up to 2500 – 3000.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:23 pm)I would have thought so also, but I seem to remember their sales have increased since their “mistakes”.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:24 pm)Or just rent a vehicle for your yearly vacations
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:24 pm)You know, if the thing had (all along) been called the [Buick, Olds(until retired) or Cadillac] Volt, most of this bitching wouldn’t be taking place. It seems that there was a preconceived idea what the ‘Chevy’ moniker meant. Examine the vehicle for what it is and ignore the heading they put it under. Someone here actually stated “You could get Mercedes..”. How STUPID! I guess I think too much like an engineer and try to be objective. NO ONE has a car like this and NO ONE will for SEVERAL years. My daughter lives out of BEV range, so my (electric) options will be limited to just ONE choice for awhile. It doesn’t matter to me that it is called a ‘Chevy’.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:24 pm)41,000.00 X 10,000 = $410,000,000.00 we will pay for the first 2,500 volts for our beloved politicians to drive this allows 7500 for sale at $41,000.00 or more actually for sale to the public. does any one actually believe they will not sell out at this price. Question is do you think GM should leave money on the table?
Tom
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:25 pm)Safe to say that we’re all pretty much avid Volt fans but I’m sure each of us has a “line in the sand” that just isn’t going to be crossed. At $41K before incentives the Volt is on the wrong side of my line in the sand and I’m sure a few others.
I’ll check in with the Volt every once it a while to see how things are going but I think this is the end of checking in on the Volt almost daily for me. Sad to say but, let the exodus begin…
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:25 pm)I factored that in, and think I’m going to attempt to lease one (if i can get a chance to)
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:25 pm)I simply cannot afford this car.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:25 pm)First time in my life I’ve wanted to live in CT!
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:25 pm)Personally, I don’t have a problem with the price. In fact, given the limited number of Volts that will be coming off the line – at least in the early stages – Chevy could’ve gotten a bit more creative. Just as automobiles are reliant upon foreign oil, GM has been reliant on U S taxpayers. GM could’ve set a minimum price, and then accepted sealed bids for the first batch or so of new Volts. Whoever wants one the most can have it, provided of course that they can pay for it. GM (or others) could finance it up to the minimum bid, and anything over would have to be paid for in cash. They could call it GM’s “Paying Back America” program.
The Volt will help our country wean itself from foreign oil. “Paying Back America” could help GM wean itself from the taxpayer’s pocketbooks.
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:25 pm)$41,000 for a Volt? Well that pricing let’s me and millions of potential Volt buyers out of the Volt arena sad to say. What exactly is GM thinking? They have a golden opportunity to attract new customers that would ordinarily buy foreign and they price it at $41,000. GM had a once in a generation moment to separate themselves from Toyota and Ford and they fumbled the ball badly. I wanted a Volt, was willing to pay a premium, but come on its a small car albeit with high tech wonders installed, is still not worth 41K to me. Looks like it will be a Ford Fusion or some new Ford hybrid still on the design tables for me. GM you disapointed me and lost a customer.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:25 pm)Maybe when you lose money on every sale you say what the heck and you price it to match your low production intent.
IS GM the home of the milliVolt or the microVolt?
Awaiting Volt GenII.
How do we think Nissan feels about the Leaf now?
How about those Prius guys?
Still like the Volt idea, kudos to Mr. Lutz.
Hoping battery development does improve cost and performance and that it doesn’t stall like solar cell production.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:26 pm)I can compare them because you said “Chevy”
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:27 pm)Do you have a link where it lists the details on the option to buy at end of term? I’d like to look into that.
join thE REVolution
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:27 pm)Let’s just hope they sell the Prius I trim level to the general public this time. Prius I is fleet only.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:27 pm)Hi,
Do you think American companies will ever succeed again without government handouts paid for by the ever shrinking American middle class? Do you think GM would have been better off going bankrupt and shake the reigns of an uncompetitive and highly overpaid union labor workforce? What is your opinion of the Chinese market and when will GM brand an electric Buick? Do you think the Nissan Leaf will be economically more attractive to consumers looking for a truly electric car? Will anyone at GM have the cajones to truefully answer any of these questions?
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:29 pm)Of course not. They should give it to me.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:29 pm)Link?
http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/20100727/chevy-volt-to-use-afs-trinity-rsquoultracapacitors-for-better-acceleration-regenerative-braking-capa.htm
is this it?
Don’t see any value in incorporating the capacitor into the battery, would be more cost effective to keep it separate. This article does not say GM is a customer, only that they would like to sell their system to GM. GM is committed to buying LG Chem’s batteries for the foreseeable future, so I don’t think AFS Trinity has any chance as their claim to fame is incorporating the cap into the battery.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:30 pm)+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:32 pm)Too steep for me. Lease looks attractive, but nothing to show for your money at the end. If you want to lease, you better do it quick before GM realizes that they over estimated the residual values once thousands of three year old Volts flood the market all at once. However, that will be the buying opportunity for me. Looks like I will be waiting 3-4 years for my Volt even though I live in one of the initial markets. Sheesh, $41K…
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:32 pm)Let’s not forget this is a whole new class of vehicle, not in the same league as the Prius.
Perhaps you could compare the Volt with the Leaf, but at the same lease price I see the Volt going 3 to 1 at least vs the Leaf. They probably added at least a couple grand to the purchase price so they could sell the lease at a comparable cost.
This will make the Leaf a big loser in the U.S. and GM will come out victorious. I love a good corporate battle.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:32 pm)Has to. First of all if it didn’t then the credit would be lost since only the lessor, not the lessee, could claim it. Second is that even with the cost of money set to zero you’d be looking at depreciation of less than 10% a year. Even with the credit GM is assuming the Volt will depreciate less than 15% a year, which is a very strong statement of confidence (vehicles with the best resale values depreciate at least 15% a year) …. or a reason why they’re only willing to make 10,000! LOL
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:33 pm)Well paint me disappointed. I was really hopping the car’s base price was going to be $35K, which is my deal breaking price. I can’t justify a $41K initial investment like this.
Lets just hope the affluent buyers that can afford the Volt will help drive down cost.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:35 pm)I’ll be waiting for Gen II or the Model S. The big question is, will federal credits be available then?
All the best to those of you who are ordering. I’m sure you will love the VOLT and be pleased with your purchase. The wait will soon be over!
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:35 pm)So much for the $5000 dealer mark-ups. Given their limited supply, the higher MSRP makes sense. To me at least. And, personally, I’d rather GM get the money than the dealers.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:36 pm)$41,000? Ripoff. Time to build my own EV…….
+9
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:36 pm)We’re in a recession because, among other things, people wanted instant gratification on easy credit and bought a lot of things they didn’t need (some of this was fueled by stupid lending practices at GM dealers).
In 2006, American Savings Rates actually went NEGATIVE.
Ted’s not a joke; he’s a sensible guy who’s going to stick to his budget.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:38 pm)Greedy – Greedy. I’m out. Please remove my name form the mailing list.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:38 pm)I saw this coming. I really wanted a Volt, but they were determined to price it up there with some very nice cars with proven technology. I bought a new 2010 BMW 528i for 44K. It even gets decent gas milage. There is no way i would have been happy driving a Volt for the same money as a nice European sport sedan. It had to be cheaper. A lot cheaper. Like they said it would be in the beginning. Maybe next time… I still want an electric car. But for 40K, I want it to be a very nice car! And the BMW is sweet.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:38 pm)True. But at a lower average transaction price. Which, considering the major uptick in auto sales in general since then, isn’t saying much.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:39 pm)So much for price gouging by dealerships.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:39 pm)Ouch! Yow! Eeeeeooow! Zowy! Gee willikers, that’s a lot of money. I think I’ll save my money and buy a new Chevy Cruze plus $25,000 in carbon credits from whoever will take my money. That’s WAYYYYYYyyyyyyyy too much money for a single, simple four passenger without leather, rear camera, or any of the other fun stuff! And it’s really too bad because, I bet I’m not alone.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:39 pm)Bingo.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:40 pm)I found a post where GM is partnering with China to sell BEV’s in 2011 & 2012. Maybe they now figure a BEV is safer,( problem wise) and cheaper to produce. Maybe Gen 2 Volt will be a BEV who knows. Quote below:
Stracke also said that Shanghai GM, the joint venture of General Motors in China, will launch several hybrid and electric vehicles within the coming months.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:41 pm)It looks like management killed the electric car again.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:41 pm)You’ll all do well to keep your hands in your pockets and not buy the first years’ output – even if the price were MUCH more reasonable. Almost any car has a few bugs to be worked out when it first comes off the line – never mind one with a whole list of new technologies in it.
If I do ever get one it with be Gen 3 or 4 after the batteries are assured to last – the generator motor is smaller and the no gas range is extended anoth 15 to 20 miles along with the price being in the mid to high 20k range.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:41 pm)I have always thought looked a lot like the Acura TL…Just something to keep in mind, A 2010 TL with their technology package is almost $40,000….
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:42 pm)The only thing I have at this point is the paragraph from an autobloggreen article.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/07/27/2011-chevrolet-volt-to-be-priced-at-41-000-350-month-lease-fo/
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:43 pm)41K was equal to the most I would pay, so right on the line, BUT the lease option is such a good deal, i’m going to go that route, then upgrade in 3years.
-4
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:45 pm)Let’s face it, neither the LEAF nor the Volt are big enough to hold 4 or 3 passengers and their “les bagages” on a long trip. Both will have to opt for renting a bigger car or take the bigger car they own.
That’s almost an assumption now.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:46 pm)I very much doubt GM that really expects the Volt to have that high a residual value. They’re subsidizing (or giving a substantial discount) to people who are willing to lease. Probably because it enables them to keep a closer watch on the cars.
Basically, what this tells me is that they’re nervous about all the new technology…
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:46 pm)Attention GM engineers and marketers.
A lot of people here are threatening to take their ball and go home but don’t worry.
They’ll man up and pay the price that is worth the car, and I believe this car is worth this price. Especially for the next couple of years.
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:47 pm)Yes, that is it. Sorry for not including it.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:47 pm)After all my expenditures in solar and all the rest of the green things, I have looked around me at the failures of this selfish American society and realized my sacrifices may be in vain. I have thought about writing an apology letter to be opened by my granddaughter in the year 2070. As she looks around at the bleak, broken and backward society it has become, she will know that grandpa and grandma tried to do the right thing by her. I will include your comments in that letter so she has a grasp on how other people approached this pivotal time- at a time when the paths were clear, but destructive consumption continued unabated.
There will be no plane trips to a far off continent for ‘holiday’, because planes consume a nearly insurmountable amount of biofuel. But, at least, just as after the dark ages when the plague killed off millions, land will be plentiful. She will need it to grow vegetables and hope a bunny hops by, because meat is a rare treat.
OMG, how can you be so self indulgent as to KNOW what you are doing is wrong and continue doing it? In the legal system, they call that ‘premeditated’ and justice is handed out accordingly.
Save your own writings and refer to them again in 20 years. If it all turns okay, I guess you’ll pat yourself on the back and be thankful that not everyone approached this life the way you did.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:48 pm)Is it possible to take yourself off the wait list? It would be interesting to see if the # drops significantly.
Tom
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:48 pm)How does the 8yr battery warranty factor into the lease? I’m guessing they are building into the residual value and only leasing through their financing arm. Either GM owns the vehicle at the end or the owner buys it out. I’m not knowledgeable enough about leases to know what is possible and what isn’t. It does appear that leasing EV’s, at least the first generations, will be the preferred method.
+12
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:49 pm)It all depends on how important it is to you to stop using foreign oil. I, for one, would rather have the Volt than any BMW. But that’s me.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:49 pm)And they just priced the volt out of range for most people. Sure they’ll sell all they can make the first couple of years, but beyond that the volt’s prospects look dim; unless the price drops drastically in the next couple of years. I know I definitely have no reason to follow news on the Volt anymore.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:49 pm)Just realized a mistake in my calculations, the term of the lease require a $2500 down payment. That will make the residual value $26,500 not $29k. Somewhat more realistic. I am also not figuring in the federal tax credit of $7500, so how does this play in? If they include that in the residual value then it drops dramatically to $19k which becomes very realistic.
Now we have two important remaining questions:
What is the pay-out value at the end of the lease?
What is CS mileage?
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:49 pm)Actually the profit they will see will be signifigantly less. They are not building the cars with free labor out of thin air with no materials. The cost of materials and labor are probably easily 30k then you have advertising costs, and the MSRP includes a built in dealer markup. i bet their profit is only several thousand per vehicle.
Also to figure the residual cost
41,000 base price
-2500 down payment
-7500 tax credit (kept by leasing dealer)
-12600 (350/mo for 36 mos)
————————
$18,400 residual value (I bet in 3 years a used volt will sell for more than this)
Imagine a scenario where the lease is turned back in to GM, GM dets data from the car then replaces the battery with technology +3yrs for a lighter car with better range.
Volt Gen1+
Probably could sell it in the upper 20k lower 30k price range
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:50 pm)GM may produce an EV. In fact, I hope they do. But they still need a gen 2 with a range extender for those of us who are willing to pay the extra for it.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:51 pm)Too High–just knocked me out of even considering it. And I refuse to do a lease–that option is rare financially viable for most people.
So if they price themselves out of the market and sales are void it becomes a “good excuse” to not make such vehicles.
Typical GM, damn I wish our automakers could see past their dinosaur way of doing business.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:51 pm)Okay cool guy, so under your logic, because NO ONE has a car like this, then Chevy can price it at $41,000 and we should ignore the fact that a new Mercedes (again, stripped down base model) can be purchased at the same price. Under that rationale, GM can charge $60,000, $80,000, or even $100,000 because no one has a car like this and no one will for several years… are you kidding me??? You can’t justify a price level because it’s the only one around; rather, you can do it if it is the only one around and there is no competition. GM is facing plenty of competition from not only the LEAF, but the flood of plug-ins that will be arriving in 2012. People cannot ignore price comparisons. True, it is a car in its own class, but buyers should consider what $41,000 will get them elsewhere as well. I’m not advocating against the Volt: I support the Volt 100% and hope it’s a huge success, but I cannot stick my head in the sand and pretend like $41,000 is a steal either when I can purchase a luxury car for the same price. I will buy one, but I do not expect the rest of America to share my enthusiasm for this $41,000 car either.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:51 pm)I meant Chevy Prizm
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:51 pm)Sorry, but this is equivalent to saying that one could go to Home Depot, buy a couple of flourescent tubes, some frosted glass, a calculator and build a digital HDTV.
The wall unit is a specialized device designed to prevent the presence of 240VAC at the business end of the plug unless that unit has negotiated a good, safe connection with the car’s on-board charger. Home Depot can supply the dual 30A breaker, the 3-wire cable, the junction box and strain relief clamps, but you’ll still need to pony up the $1-2K for the wall-mount unit.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:52 pm)A great foreign company will soon make a better one for under $30,000…and so it goes.
+8
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:52 pm)I think Lyle was leasing his Mini-E for over $600/month. The Volt at $350/month is a bargain folks !
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:54 pm)And I suppose the trade deficit and the concomitant reduction in median income had nothing to do with it? Cheaper prices in the short run can be very expensive in the long run.
As far as our low savings rate–at least part of that is a response to asset inflation which was caused by a flood of cheap money from Asia.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:54 pm)I think the price is to steep, I will not be buying one for 41K, maybe wait for the second generation in hopes of the battery price pack drop. You can bet also the dealers will be price gouging consumers on this as well with the limited number chevy plans to make.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:55 pm)Pricing for the Volt isn’t a terribly critical business decision for GM, Toprak said, since the car is expected to lose money, anyway, during its initial run. It’s really an image-making “halo car” for GM. Source: CNN
Shame on you, Toprak.
join thE REVolution
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:56 pm)I have to put my son through college first. Maybe four years from now the price will be better (sigh). The liklyhood I would get one the first (or even second) year was pretty slim anyway.
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:58 pm)Exhibit a for why we need a much higher gas tax…
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:58 pm)GO FORD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:59 pm)Owning a piece of history is expensive
. I think the CEO knows well that if you price it low (or sell in loss ) then you have to sell all life on loss. So its a better move. learn lessons from PS3 -
Thinking loud : Premium fuel 41k base price car – If i was GM CEO i would have priced it a 50 – 80 k but the catch is
a) If its Chevy brand , i would have put the corvette body and logo on it
b) Second option is it will be a Cadillac ( still i can charge the premium )
At this price , sure the lease options looks nice
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (12:59 pm)Oh well. Far too expensive for me. Non-gasoline vehicles are always priced so damn high that it outweighs any savings you might have realized from not needing the gas in the first place. Someday they’ll figure that out…
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:00 pm)They priced it high for the IPO, knowing that the first years allocation will be sold in a month. After that they must know the price won’t hold, but that doesn’t matter, they already completed their IPO.
They can always pull of the Chevy name plate and replace it with a Caddy nameplace, then it is priced right.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:01 pm)To compare the Volt to the EV-1 is ridiculous. For that I’m saying Ted’s a joke. He way over reacted, he was one of the most excited guys on here before today. For less than 4,500 bucks he get’s distraught? Come on Ted.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:01 pm)CorvetteGuy has stated that existing customers at his dealership will get MSRP + $1k and new customers MSRP + $2k.
Click on his name to order your car.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:01 pm)Hot Damn!!!
$41,000.00 is a sh|tloada chicken wings and beer at H( , y , )TERS!
I betcha any $$$ all the Volts are gone by December 15 2010.
Same thing for the 2011 model years.
I’m a Gen II buyer anyway. Damn brokeazz CA killed my pay. Ok, didn’t kill it but amputated it.
I def aint gonna lease the Volt, that’s fo damn sure. But those who will get a Gen I Volt, big props to you, You’ll have what I consider the best batt pack GM put’s out because it was over spec’d.
But that’s just me.
/gotta go offsite now, check back on yall latter…..maybe.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:01 pm)Or if you’re a true vacation planning genius, after saving thousands of gallons of gas by driving your Leaf, you can take ten minutes from your lunch break and pick up a rented Prius. How ’bout we work on the topic at hand since straying in a logical manner seems too difficult for so many people.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:03 pm)Don’t forget about those gasoline savings.
According to my calculations, even though the payments on the Volt will be higher than I expected, if I drive 40 miles per day, 5 days a week, I am probably going to save maybe $90/month in “fuel” costs by going to electricity instead of using gasoline (at around $3/gal with my 20 mpg vehicle).
If you drive 40 miles per day for 5 days a week, would you rather pay $120/month for gasoline or pay $20-30/month more in your electricity bill? I hope the range extender gas mileage MPG number ends up being 50 mpg like some people are saying. That’ll make a BIG difference on longer trips to the beach or whatever.
I hope ALL the state and local governments everywhere are going to have a bunch of tax credits and other perks like single occupant HOV lane access, free parking, free charging, very low or no vehicle taxes, better parking spaces, etc.
Big corporations ought to offer free charging and better parking spaces as a perk. These extra perks do make a difference to a lot of people you know. There’s a lot of monetary value in these perks in some places. Who doesn’t like to get special red carpet treatment that other people can’t get?
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:05 pm)It’s called industrial policy. The US used it to become the richest country in the world with the world’s highest GDP per capita by 1913. We abandoned it after WWII. And we’re now reaping the consequences.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:05 pm)So many posts to read. I assume the lease is at 36,000 miles, but like all leases the question is what is the charge per mile for over 36,000 miles. Thats where I’ll know how to make my decision. I don’tknow what the leaf is either. But i’d like 3 mile lease and plan on about 60,000 miles.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:05 pm)Even better… for the price difference you can take a small amount ~2K and get a really compact aerodynamic light utility trailer…. add an electric 240 volt capable generator and have a great range extended Leaf for still 9 to 10 k less.
PLUS you can leave the trailer home when you know you are going less than the Leaf’s range that day.
That may be the best option going and I would not be surprised if a person came up with an option for sale. :+}
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:05 pm)Well, I do like the car. No trouble with the top, except some rattling in the cold–a bad dealer service center made it worse, then a good one ordered the parts that the bad one removed.
As for the 90 miles/day, I’m hoping to get my employer to install a charger (or at least a designated place to plug in 120v). They seem willing to work on that.
-3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:06 pm)Call it the first New GM-internet-age mash-up. The New Cimmaron/Former Volt.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:08 pm)For closed end leases, when you lease the car there is a purchase price and a residual. During the lease period the lessor owns the vehicle. At the end of the lease you can buy the vehicle for the residual, in which case you’re the owner. But yes, leasing solves many issues. Definitely a good way to go.
Yup. +1
Actually I think they are bullish on the residual. Otherwise they would have gone the route of a lower MSRP and worse lease deal. As for keeping tabs on the cars, I don’t see this. You just send a payment in just like you’d do if you financed the car. Nothing special with a lease.
I think the decision to go with the higher MSRP and a great lease deal might have something to do with positioning. They’re essentially matching the Leaf on price but saying the Volt is worth a 25% premium. You can always cut prices. Raising them is much harder.
-13
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:09 pm)(click to show comment)
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:09 pm)Add me to the Gen II Club. Out of my price range.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:10 pm)Apologize to her for your bleeding heart and your bleak outlook on life.
If you people could step back you might see that all of the essential things to move us beyond a world of fossil fuels exist. A libertarian would tell you you don’t need the government to make things happen, society will say we need a solution and the free markets will fill that void, mainly because it’s profitable and partly because of the human desire to fix a problem.
I believe global warming is real, but it may take the oceans taking out the first layer of billion dollar properties along the developed worlds coasts for people to say, OK, we need 100 percent renewable energy.
Fortunately for us all, we can do that. Will we all die? No, we’ll move on, we’ll persevere. There’s no need to be so paranoid. Your grandkids will most likely a more comfortable life than you have. It’s been that way since the beginning of time.
Try being a little optimistic for a while. It’ll change your life.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:10 pm)Amen
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:11 pm)Most people are reacting just as GM probably anticipated. Less demand for the Volt. They probably knew people would flock to their other models for the below reasons.
1. If a Volt advocate can’t afford a Volt today, they’ll support GM by buying a less expensive Chevy or Buick to keep the company and Voltec effort alive.
2. If a Volt advocate can afford $41K GM makes money.
Perhaps a win-win for them.
Of course there are those who will wait to buy a plug-in Prius or Fusion and those who will continue to wait for the price of the Volt to drop and even those who will postpone their Volt purchase while they save up the $41K.
I won’t be buying the Volt until I find out what the CSM mpg is. The MSRP news was bad enough. If the CSM mpg is 38 or less, I may take a closer look at a Leaf.
I guess we won’t be seeing a spectacular IPO from the “New GM” any time soon.
NPNS!
-9
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:11 pm)GM will probably lose $10000 per each Chevy Volt. BTW, the mpg during CS mode is about 35 mpg because it uses Otto cycle.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:11 pm)IOW John wants to put four players on the court when the opposition puts five — playing four on five — and then complain when his players never win. The inability to understand that there is no free market when foreign competitors have government backing is constantly astonishing.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:13 pm)I guess I’ll have to keep commuting by myself in my Winnebago. And I’m the #1 fan of getting off of foreign oil. I can spend the $35k I had earmarked for the Volt on dropping in a V-16 instead. Or hauling a new boat. To work. In my downtown office. Or buying a gently used Bimmer that’ll pull 1.1 g’s. GOTTA have that for my gridlocked commute. I LOVE this planet!
Wait a minute. I can lease a Volt for the same price as a Leaf? Done. Call me Timaaayyy!!!, The Enlightened Planet Savior. If I tow it behind the Winnebago, the regen can even recharge the battery. Brilliant!
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:13 pm)The lease option is the way to go. After 3 years – the battery options will be way better, costs will come down, and the majority of people who bought (leased) the gen one will want to upgrade anyway (not to mention this would be getting close to battery replacement time anyway). I think I will get one maybe sometime later in ’11.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:13 pm)That’d be so gay looking.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:14 pm)$4500 is a lot of money. That’s more than some people make in a year in many countries. And it’s certainly enough to render the car unaffordable to many people in this country.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:15 pm)I figure I will save about $20,000 in gas if I own the Volt for 10 years so the price does not look bad at all.
I drive 14,000 miles a year and get about 18 miles a gallon on my current car.
14,000 / 18 mpg = 778 gallons of gas used a year
778 gallons times $2.7 a gallon = $2,100 a year spent for gas
$2,100 times 10 years = $21,000 savings on gas over 10 years
I would rarely drive it over 40 miles with out a charge.
The savings would be half that amount if my current car got 36 miles a gallon or $10,000. Still making the Volt a good deal.
-4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:15 pm)That would be the last nail in the Volt coffin
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:16 pm)C) I’ll lease mine.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:16 pm)I hate the fact we buy foreign oil. I hate it even more that we have untapped American oil that the govt. won’t allow to be tapped. I wanted very much to get away from high gas prices. But I do not make a political statement with my family transportation. For 40K plus, I want a great car with proven technology that rides well and handles well also. If the Volt had come in around 25K, I was going to buy one as a daily commuter. Instead I am left with the Prius, which I don’t care to drive. I will enjoy my BMW for 4 years, then see what is up with the electric car market. I am not out for good, just for the first round! The Volt is the future. Just not for me at this price at this time.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:17 pm)You quoted the wrong James. That was not my post.
-13
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:19 pm)(click to show comment)
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:20 pm)I paid $18k for my Jetta TDI. It’s got 200k miles and still gets 50mpg, expecting 350k before major work, burns bio-D just spiffy. I could buy two more of those for the price of a Volt and have over a million miles of economy!
GM, I really wanted to be an EV driver but looks like this round is only for the have’s.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:20 pm)If the rest of America has such a love affair with the nameplate, then MBZ should be very content with their sales at the end of the fiscal year. Though I’m certain that 10,000 Volt owners will be driving to and fro with technology available to no one else, ’cause Volts will begin year one service engineered like no other cars on the road.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:20 pm)If you happen to have throw-away cash in this down economy.
Many people want to do the right thing, but can’t afford it. I don’t begrudge anyone for not having the means.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:21 pm)What’s better? Use it now? or sell it later when it’s worth more?
-4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:21 pm)GM blew it… I guess it was just a matter of time. Bring on the plug in prius, ford focus EV and leaf….
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:21 pm)And how exactly are you going to drive 14000 miles/year in Volt? Fueled by God’s spirit and Volt fanboism?
Hint: You need to subtract electricity/charger cost from your “savings”.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:21 pm)I’ll get it even if I prostitute myself
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:22 pm)I’m sure the residual will be higher than with a regular car. For one thing, I expect a shortage of electric cars for at least the next five years. And, this is one car that could easily become collectible. Since it is a first generation of a new technology.
But under 15% a year? And why the limitation in leases to people who actually live in the designated areas?
Definitely true. Although cutting the price too quickly can be a PR disaster…But I can’t see them needing to given the limited production.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:23 pm)It’s not that they haven’t figured it out; it’s because they can’t make a profit providing what you want at the price you want yet. It takes time. This isn’t just a new car; it’s new tech.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:23 pm)Count me as another disappointed follower. They likely just priced me out of this car. I was trusting the comfortably under 40K and under 30K with incentives quotes earlier and even that was a stretch for my budget but one I was willing to make. At this MSRP, I am out of the running for a purcahse.
I like the lease payment and with this car I might actually go that route, though it is another thing to convince the better half of. The average age of cars I trade in is 10 years and in the past my milage has always been way to high for the lease terms to be wise. My commute has dropped from 90 miles/day to 30 and with this car being so different, a 3 year lease on Rev 1 may make sense then buy a new Rev 2.
My other option is to wait until 2013 when my next vehicle (Venture) reaches 10 years old and buy new then. That leaves me driving a car that is way too big at the moment, however, since my last purchase (2010 Traverse) was going to my wife when I got the Volt. I really want to be driving electric but the vehicle needs to make sense for our family.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:24 pm)what featurs? and the solar panel only runs a circ fan
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:25 pm)The answere is LEASE…
I have never leased a car but given the potential for cost improvements in batteries and manufacturing, I wonder about the residual value. There are some price predictions for after 2015 for new BEV and PHEV that make it appear a new car will cost much less then.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:27 pm)Then too the price of grain went absolutely crazy through 1912 leading to tremendous windfalls, and the US was vastly more dependent on agriculture and the rural economy at that time.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:27 pm)Yeah, my SUV ran $42K but it is also three times the size, will tow my camping trailer and motorcycle trailer, will haul all three of my dogs with ease, carry 3/4′s of a ton in the bed (and yes it has done this many times), carry as many 4×8 pieces of plywood as the bed is tall, carry’s five people very comfortably and does much more. The drawback, it doesn’t get good gass mileage. So with all of what it does, the Volt only gives me gas mileage for and over the top price? I realize this is new technology and has some great bells and whistles but this is too much for me. The Volt should have been priced at $38, maybe $39. Over that and it’s just too much, and I’m a fan of GM. For those who would speak up and bash me about driving and SUV, well you can keep your comments to yourself. Remember, I said motorcycle up above – I ride my motorcycle whenever I can. In Dallas, that’s pretty often. The simple fact is the Volt at this price is not for me. Those who think the lease is a great deal, remember the comment is that the residual price is going to be very good, which means at the end of the lease if you still want the car, you’re going to pay a premium for it. The only thing the lease does is make it affordable to drive but not a good financial choice because in the end you’re going to pay or you can write off all the money you paid over the three year lease.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:27 pm)If the Leaf doesn’t hit it’s extremely high sales targets, it’s price will either have to increase or it will be discontinued fast. Kind of risky for Nissan on new tech if you ask me.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:27 pm)Hey GM,
I’m out.
Sincerely,
Joe Public
PS- Get the price to $25,000 after rebates and we can talk.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:31 pm)We don’t want to wait too long… when we don’t need it anymore!
But I understand your thinking. I have thought the same thing.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:32 pm)Hmm – forget your coffee today, Rashiid ?
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:33 pm)First off, the Volt’s real price will be $33,500 after the Federal rebate. That’s only a tad more than the average vehicle sells for these days. And the Volt is no average vehicle.
I believe he Volt is a watershed vehicle on the order of Henry Ford’s Model T. It is a massive paradigm shift in automotive thinking and will usher in a whole new era of motoring.
We have to get used to paying more for vehicles now because they have much more content in them as we progress. And the Volt technology is a huge leap forward for efficient transportation in America.
So we need to pony up for this advanced technology if we want to free ourselves from the foreign oil slavery that is ruining our economy.
GM did the right thing by developing the Chevy Volt. Now they have to get paid for their efforts.
Go GM!
Go Chevy Volt!
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:34 pm)But the other governments are giving our consumers money out of the goodness of their hearts! It’s so ethnocentric of us to want to turn it down.
And then Americans blame our players for not trying hard enough, and start rooting for the other team…
+15
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:34 pm)Hey guys,
Sounds like a lot of disappointment here. Understandable, but no need to bash anybody about it! It is definitely unfortunate that it’s not more affordable, but as with anything else in life, if you can’t afford it, move on or wait for the second generation.
As for Gen 1 not selling due to price, I don’t think it will be an issue. At my university (public school, not much mega rich people), there are many who drive around in brand new RX8s, G35s, and A4s. Can they “afford” these cars? Highly doubtful. But are they willing to spend just about every dime they make to impress other people? You bet.
Of course, Volt is different from those cars, but my point is that there are a lot of people who just buy what they want, regardless of what they can afford. Bad practice, but my belief is that there will be enough people buying the first generation, so that the car will continue to be manufactured in the future.
Plus, there are way more than 10,000 households that can afford this car anyway. There are 105,000,000 households in the US – that means if only 1 out of every 10,500 households buys a Volt, it will sell out.
The lease looks very attractive to me! I’m the type that likes the latest, especially with technology which evolves so fast. So after 3 years, I’ll dump it for v2.0. Also with OnStar included, I’m not sure, but I think having that will lower my car insurance as well.
PS- I read Statik’s post on the LEAF blog… He’s a sell out!!
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:35 pm)How are we ever going to fight Global Warming if the environmentally helpful options are only made available to the exremely wealthy?!? I really expected the good ole USA to come up with a reasonably priced option to fight polution, fight oil dependency, and help make America a better place! With the price of $41,000 (which is almost half of what my home cost) most people are going to continue driving oil/gas driven polutants and we will solve nothing! Seems like they could price it around $18,000 and sell a whole lot more of them! I mean come on… what do they cost to make in mass production $5,000 ea?
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:35 pm)People want Ferrari’s because of there styling/power not because their out of there price range. I can see paying 40K for the original Volt concept car but not for a electric malibu.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:36 pm)At this point, it needs to be something stronger.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:36 pm)As any national security expert can tell you, the problem IS NOT foreign oil. It’s oil. Full stop. As long as we and our allies depend on oil for transportation our national security is threatened. Do you really think it matters that the money that Saudi Arabia sends to terrorists comes from the US or the EU? Does it matter than the roadside bombs used to kill US service personnel are bought with money sent to Iran from China rather than the US?
Drilling for more oil ANYWHERE is the problem not a solution, and every patriotic American should know this. And what warped sense of values leads you to dismissing protecting your family and country from terrorism as being a “political statement”? What you’re saying is that you’ll do it if it’s cheap and convenient but not if it actually costs something. Priceless.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:37 pm)Guess what?
They will sell all 5000 cars in 2011.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:37 pm)I wish. You forgot to add in the dealer price gouging.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:38 pm)UGH………well so much for the Volt for me.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:39 pm)Some were saying “why bother, Volt is coming out soon” but this crazy price will definitely spur the EV hacker crowd to keep buildin’.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:39 pm)Dang, $41,000 is almost half of what you house cost?
Where the heck do you live? I need to move there!
+12
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:39 pm)If the lease payment is $350 and you are saving about $150 per month in gasoline costs, could you be any happier shelling out only $200 per month for your commute? C’mon people! This is a really great deal!
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:40 pm)Nah – we had you pegged correctly from the start.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:40 pm)I have noticed that almost everyone here is either for the Leaf or Volt. The is one more on the near horizon the 2012 Ford Focus EV in fall of 2011. That is the car I am waiting for. Great looking car. Plus it has the added advantage of being made as a normal gasoline/e85/diesel car. (i.e. larger production scale) So the price should be much lower than ether Volt of Leaf to start off with.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:40 pm)Ok, so how many here on this site will continue to clamor for the Volt to be mass produced (ie over 100,000 per year) given the news today? I’m still going to take a good hard look (especially at the lease) but there was always a reason (well, many reasons) why a slow roll out made sense and the fact that this car is WAY out of the price range for most Americans turns out to be chief amongst them.
Still excited about the Volt but I do have to digest the significance of the price point and weigh my options.
Still NPNS!
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:40 pm)A lot of people are saying they are going to go to the plug in prius instead… I lease a prius and it is an awesome car and surprisingly fun to drive, plenty of power when needed.
What they are not saying is what the plug in prius will cost, i read somewhere that Toyota was expecting a $4000 premium for the plug in, based on the way the prius works now i would figure you would only have that option on the Prius 5 which currently sells for 33k.
That would put the price at about 37K and you would not get tht full tax credit. All for 12 miles EV range but only if you accellerate slowly and after the engine warms up, and not over 63MPH.
Dont get me wrong I really do like the prius, but when the lease is up in May 2010 I will be following the plan as usual and buying my volt even if the price is 46k fully equipped.
-3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:41 pm)I was wondering all along how GM was going to set Volt free amongst the common folk just like they did EV-1, but make the science experiment appear non-EV-1-like.
There you have it. An MSRP quite a bit higher than the teases over the last year – in fact, quite a bit higher, especially when you add in that most people will want a leather seat at a luxury car price. And be it that it will mainly be a second or third car in a family ( four seats ), that will cut out most middle to upper middle class families in our down economy.
WALA! The bean counters in Detroit were given the task to make it appear Volt was being introduced to the public as a stand-alone product being marketed like all of their others.
Not so.
This is a veiled attempt to release it’s science project-cum government ( you ) bailout carrot in very very small numbers and pull back most of them for the crusher three years later.
We lose.
GM wins
This is how it is played in the big leagues ladies and gentleman. Watch and learn.
It is not, however, how to run a successful automobile company. GM’s days are numbered.
RECHARGE!
James
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:41 pm)The increase in US income relative to other countries was a gradual process. And, yes, the increase in agricultural productivity had a lot to do with it. (Which by the way was also driven by government policy and targeted subsidies). As did our oil reserves….But industrialization, which wouldn’t have happened without industrial policy, also played a huge role. Just like it did for Japan. And South Korea. And Singapore. And China. Etc…
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:43 pm)“He who fails to learn from history is destined to repeat it.”
The most advanced civilization the world knew (the Romans) was brought to its knees by a) self indulgence, b) bureaucracy and c) a backward breed referred to as the ‘Huns’. Their knowledge and progress was lost for a thousand years. Go look for any technological achievements that occurred during what we call (fittingly) the dark ages.
How about the dust bowl, when short sighted farming techniques displaced an entire region?
Who would have thought a man speaking his mind in beer joints in Germany would be responsible for 50 million dead?
The Saudis stated at the beginning of this month that they had stopped exploration because they were leaving the oil for future generations. http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2010070377026 (What a load of crap- I’d bet there isn’t any to be found). We are so entrenched in oil that the moment we find out we really HAVE to change, it is way too late. It will be like falling off a cliff. Will mankind go extinct? Ridiculous, although some very smart people would argue the point http://www.helium.com/items/1868349-scientist-that-eradicated-smallpox-declares-mankind-extinct-in-100-years But to be so smug as to assume we are above what the Romans experienced, is laughable. To be truthful, they had far fewer issues than we do with an economy so dependent on just one product that is showing all the signs of running out- while we debate the PRICE of the first car to help solve the problem.
I am not a doomsdayer; I am a pragmatist. All the complaints that I see here this day have set me on edge. I thought this was a place where people really got it. Just yesterday, people were talking about these exciting times. Now, many are saying it is better to stick with oil until things change. Well people, things just changed and like taxes, many don’t want to pick up the tab. I cannot imagine a better place to spend money than by insuring the planet provides my grandchildren the same pleasures I received.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:43 pm)But GM will only be building 10,000 units this next year. And only 30,000 the next year. It’s not their intention to price it for millions of potential buyers.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:44 pm)No answer for the incredible low depreciation. Agreed that it’s not realistic. (Which is a good reason to lease). For the limitation on leases, I’m assuming they want to dissuade people from taking the Volts to areas where there aren’t dealers which are certified to repair them.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:44 pm)For those of you planning on buying a Leaf with some sort of range extender in a trailer:
a) the trailer all alone will likely void your warranty
b) the necessary power/controller modifications would REALLY void your warranty.
c) with this setup I guarantee you get much worse extended range fuel economy than the Volt.
d) betchya it costs more than you think and is more of a hassle to hook up/take down than you think
however,
e) If Nissan comes up with a well-designed solution like this it might be considerable. Most people wouldn’t want to get a wonky mod like this on their own/aftermarket.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:45 pm)Shame. I was hoping for about 30k after rebate. I DO NOT LEASE. I put too many miles on a car for a lease. period. I wasn’t going to get one of the first ones anyways being in IL, but still…
Mike.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:45 pm)40 miles a day times 365 days = 14,600 miles
dumb people are always the most negative
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:45 pm)Charlie H.: once a shill always a shill.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:45 pm)Great Price!!! They could have gone for a much higher price.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:46 pm)Great sentiment +1. Though I don’t like subsidies since it lets the government pick winners and losers and governments aren’t as good at this as free markets. It would be better to tax what we know is the problem. But as a second best option, I’m all for it.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:46 pm)Ironically, GM headquarters are in Detroit. You could buy a house in Detroit for the price of Volt. Or sell it if you are lucky and buy a Volt… Decisions, decisions
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:46 pm)I live in Des Moines, IA. My house cost 105,000. New construction, 2BR 2 Ba, 2 Car garge. 1100sqft (Its all I need). Living is cheap here.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:47 pm)“They priced it high for the IPO, knowing that the first years allocation will be sold in a month. After that they must know the price won’t hold, but that doesn’t matter, they already completed their IPO.”
Yes, but remember the wisdom delivered in a deodorant commercial. “You never get a second chance to make a first impression”
A lot of people on this board don’t realize that 99% of the general public has no idea what a Volt is, but today when they see those headlines-wave bye bye.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:47 pm)How does this obviate the need for a coherent industrial policy?
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:48 pm)Unfortunately, I suspect that Ken’s only stating most people’s POV.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:49 pm)Jeremy,
The $7500 tax credit only begins to be phased out after GM has sold over 200,000 of these vehicles, so hopefully the Gen II Chevy Volt will still be eligible for the full tax credit. That is unless it takes GM 3 or 4 years to release the Gen II, but the tax credit will definitely be there 2 years from now.
jt
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:49 pm)You’re too smart for this. The lease offer is for a closed end lease. You can buy the Volt for the residual price at the end of the lease. IOW the crusher is not an option unless you total the car or something.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:51 pm)Don’t know where you get your news, Rashiid, but everything I’ve read shows Toyoda LOSING significant market share since their coniving ways became public knowledge…..
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:51 pm)Last time I looked, the Volt used gas too. Not as much as my BMW per mile, but I would be out of the all electric mode before I made it home from my daily commute. But I make my political statement at the voting booth. I make my car decisions on price,ride, performance, handling, style and safety. Gas milage counts too, but if I still have to go to the pump, I am just saving money at the pump, not getting away from gas all together. Please enjoy your Volt! I am sure it will be great. But you must understand that for 40K not everyone wants to drive a Chevy. Priceless!
+9
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:52 pm)Could have priced it $1,001 less and been American heros !
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:53 pm)wrong, there are always the most positive
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:54 pm)I am flabbergasted that people don’t seem to be getting this. Sign me.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:54 pm)$41,000 is the price of a parking space in Boston. I’m not kidding, search the MLS listings. I can see why this may seem exorbitant to you but to others in large cities it’s actually not THAT bad.
The second part of your post tells me you are new to this site. $5000 doesn’t even cover the cost of the battery.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:56 pm)How can the leaf have so much more battery and still be cheaper?
It has 2.5x the range and thus 2.5x the battery, can 24kwh of batteries really cost more than an engine/generator?
+9
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:56 pm)I’m a bit disappointed in a lot of you regarding your negative reaction to the Volt pricing. Cool off a bit and use the organ between your ears. The lease option is a no brainer. If you get the opportunity, do it! I’ve leased Impalas for many years, and the monthly lease fee averaged in the low to mid $300s, same ballpark as the Volt. I currently spend a little over $100 a month on gas, so that means my average monthly transportation costs are in the mid $400s, not counting insurance, maintenance, etc. With the Volt, the unused $100 monthly gas expense will make my monthly transportation costs $100 LESS than I have spent in the past. Throw in the reduced dependence on foreign oil, emission reduction, US jobs saved, what’s not to like?
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:56 pm)I’m making my decision based on how best to protect my family and country. You are of course free to make yours based on price and ride. Just don’expect me to respect you for it.
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:56 pm)Nice speech. The problem you seem to forget is this: Many people can’t afford to change.
For at least the last two years, I have said repeatedly that this car needs to be priced for the masses. That didn’t happen. How can you sit there on your pompous ass, and blame people who can’t afford it? It is not that people don’t want to pick up the tab and do their part, they just can’t. I grew up poor. I have seen what it is like to struggle. Please don’t be high and mighty and begrudge these people.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:57 pm)Long time no post but here goes…
Really the price is what they have been saying for an extended period of time so it really SHOULDN’T be a shock to us. The problem is that in the big picture I think this strategy is going to hurt the Volts image.
It isn’t a car for everyman, it’s MORE money than a Caddy CTS!
(The local dealer has a bunch of them at $39k cdn…)
For my part I need to get another car since my son’s car is no longer safe so I’m going to buy my sisters old VW Golf as my commuter car and he’ll take the Malibu.
I DO get that GM NEEDS the $100 mil that setting the price at $41K will generate over setting the price at $31k, but I ALSO think that the public would be jumping up and down to get into the car at $31k.
The fact is that it will be much less attactive at $41k.
GM has an uphill battle in the market but their strategy doesn’t seem to reflect an awareness of this and THAT is what I find disappinting.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:57 pm)This is part of the problem with the majority of this country…
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (1:57 pm)41K is steep, especially considering the number of equally worthy (if not more so) EVs on the way in the next 2-3 years. Less than 2 years ago GM was on the verge of going under – did anyone really expect this outfit to come up with a breathrough that would be accessable and affordable to the people who need and want it the most? Another opportunity lost by GM. So glad i and the rest of the taxpayers are part-owners.
+9
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:01 pm)Sounds like I’m going against the grain of most of today’s postings, but…
I have to say I’m shocked at all the shock! Everything I’ve read over the past few years has led me to expect this would be a $40k car. Given that the $720 destination charge is rolled it, it’s pretty close to that.
As an engineer, given the amount of work and materials I have seen doing into this case, I doubt they are even making much (if any) on the car at this price!
To those who say this is “too much”, on what are you basing that? On the facts of the car? Or comparision to a vehicle that is completely different? Or, as it sounds, must “wishful thinking”? (sure I’d love to buy a 4 bed-room house for $10k or a 2 week holiday in Hawaii for $100 – but that’s just wishful thinking).
I too admit I had hoped-against-hope that the price might be close to $30k, by some miricle (mostly would mean GM eating a big piece of each), as $40k puts it also out of my price range, for now. Options for me are lease, wait to buy off-lease, wait for G2 when prices will start to drop (first gen items are never sold on price – Prius is not a fair example because Toyota was “paying” tp build a market that did not exist at that time – that is not needed now). So I too am “disappointed”, but not in what GM has done or the final price, but siimply in the fact that I now know for sure that I can’t fit this into my budget – but it’s my problem, not GM’s.
I predict there will be anough demand at $40 they will sell all they have and still have a waiting list. The fact that many of use would “like” to still buy at a lower price, does not change that.
My 2 cents, anyway…..
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:01 pm)Wow. This makes the Fisker Karma and Tesla Model S look better by comparison. GM Engineering – excellent. GM Marketing – not so much.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:03 pm)$41000 USD
In Canadian, without the $7500 rebate, add larger destination charges and taxes
Now we are looking at JUST UNDER $50,000. For a base care… I am not seeing any specials showing up from GM Canada.
And we STILL Do not know that Non electric milage.. !!
I have the 2010 Fusion Hybrid,,
IT AVERAGES 52 MPG (CANADIAN) in REAL WORLD DRIVING.
A Fully LOADED Fusion Hybrid for 2011 is $38000 Canadian..
Folks…. it’s time for some of you to walk on over to your FORD Dealership..
Right now in Canada… 0% Financing, Employee discount etc..
A Fully loaded Fusion Hybrid… can be had for under $ 35,000.
Think about it…
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:03 pm)A lot of people here can’t afford to pick up the tab. You can’t spend money you don’t have. Or at least you shouldn’t. GM knows that. That’s why they’re limiting production.
Hopefully, gen II will be a lot cheaper. And gen 3 cheaper still. That’s how technology works. Those of us who can afford Gen 1 will be subsidizing development costs for everyone else. Which is kind of the whole point.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:04 pm)Bingo, we have a winner.
Even if GM’s initial price for the Volt was $35K – $7500 = $27.5K, the car would not have been a good value for consumers. Once the car comes remotely close to 8 years / 100K miles, the car will lose a lot of value because of the replacement costs for the battery.
Lease it today – help our country get off foriegn oil – and wait 3 years for better technology. In 3 or 4 years, the price for the car will have fallen significantly, Gen II will be available, and the car might come with a better 10 year / 150K mile warrenty on the battery.
I would have never considered leasing a car before. But this is tempting.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:04 pm)GM just insulted any potential Volt buyer by making the Volts MSRP a s- u- c- k- e- r- s price!
Driving a Volt around weather your rich or not, you were taken to the cleaners.
NPNS
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:08 pm)Winning wars is usually so absolutely imperative that industrial policy emerges. Apparently more important that the political cost of hearing, hey the government is planning, isn’t that what communists do, the government shouldn’t plan because having plans means we have less freedom to do what we want.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:09 pm)I’m amazed how many are reacting like the ‘affordability’ of the VOLT is something NEW that you just realized today! It has been the subject of discussion here for over a year that the VOLT could be in the high-30′s to low-40′s in price.
If people could not afford a car in that price range then, why is it a surprise now? I can’t be that bad since I just received my 10th request for a Deposit/Order Form and it’s only noon here.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:12 pm)When you consider the lease payments, don’t forget about the $2500 “down payment” which is really a capitalized cost reduction. Translation is that is money you will never see again, so add $70 a month to your tab.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:14 pm)I you’re rich not at all. You’ll be one of only 10,000 with a Volt. Out of a population of 310,000,000 that’s an extremely exclusive club for the first year.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:15 pm)Did you actually read what I wrote? I mentioned that the charger would be preferable (you elaborated on why). I said it was not REQUIRED. I live in FL, land of hurricanes, generators and non-code 220 electrical hookups. The stuff necessary for a FUNCTIONAL car charging port is right there at Home Depot. There are A LOT of people who will bypass the optimal solution to save $1500!!!!! And to reiterate, this is the question I asked at the GM-Volt online forum- of the guy who had the answers about those free chargers (to the fortunate few).
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:16 pm)HA! I’ve already put a $500 deposit down at the countries biggest Chevy dealership (Classic Chevrolet in Grapevine, TX). I’m first on the list to be allowed to order a Volt when ordering opens up (whenever that is).
Got to admit the sticker is a little high, but this is (a) an American product that (b) will greatly lessen the importance of importing foreign oil. I’m willing to put my wallet where my heart is and support GM for being an innovator. They’ve been working on this technology for years and years and they need to recoup the cost of all those man-years somehow.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:17 pm)Extrapolate that response at one dealer over the 600 that have signed up. By
close of businessnoon tomorrow, there will be no cars left to debate over.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:18 pm)GM isn’t hiding their motivation behind the pricing… They are intentionally forcing the lease.
The lease ($350/mo. for 36 months) is comparable to other mid-size sedans that might ordinarily cost $25K-$30K. Although GM has done a lot of testing, they still want the control that they had with the EV1 (which was only leased).
I am willing to bet that 80+% of the Volts are leased in the first year or two.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:19 pm)Amen, Mr. President.
Many of us here have already paid our dues for Charter membership. I’ll bring the Dip to the first meeting.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
-12
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:19 pm)(click to show comment)
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:20 pm)I find it interesting you base your respect for someone based on what car they decide to buy. Personally for protection of family and friends, I would prefer to drive a Bradley tank. And an electric model would be even more fun….
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:22 pm)Translation. The government’s job is to make your life easier. Regardless of the impact on anyone else. Or the impact on the country’s future. Or the world for that matter.
Newsflash–the idea that the US still has enough easily accessible oil to make a meaningful difference is a fantasy. Otherwise I’m sure the government would take the easy way out…
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:22 pm)That would be very cool. And I will continue to take deposit orders beyond our initial allocation, just as I believe GM is anticipating, and we will see how fast they ramp up production to cover those orders!
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:25 pm)Still waiting for what the charge per mile over 36,000 miles in 3 years is for both the Volt and the Leaf. Competition will bring these prices down soon. Still planning to buy the best value in 2012, whether Leaf, Volt, Ford or whatever. It would be great if I could get a nice lease on one of these cars by 2011 but none of these manufacturers are talking any real volume and availability until 2012.
I do have my $99 place holder for the Leaf which in the event of an oil shock could be a blessing because demand would skyrocket for these cars.
-4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:25 pm)What part of “among other things” did I inadvertently write in a language you don’t read?
Now you’re talking sense. Although I’d generalize to “carbon tax.” You might look around the net for “carbon fee and dividend” for another idea.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:25 pm)ARE YOU GUYS NUTS!
The Unions are still ruleing you along with the accountants. You should ask what would Ed Cole have priced it at? I have bought 2 hybrids in the past but their is no volt in my future.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:26 pm)Thanks for your updates. Your posts have been the most valuable ones today–precious data on real behavior!
If other dealers would give us some similar info, too, that would be great. Thanks.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:26 pm)The stuff at Home Depot will have to hand shake with the charger in the car. Combine your stuff from Home Depot with an order from Radio Shack and I’m sure a lot of smart people will be able to install a bootleg. Though it may be gratifying, I’m not sure how much money could be saved by going that route.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:27 pm)I’m absolutely positive that Lyle must have misspoken here. The Volt has to have a built-in 240v charger, otherwise you won’t be able to use any level 2 charging docks anywhere.
In fact, he makes it clear that he is talking about charging docks, not chargers, in his very next statement:
There are no free chargers, only free charging docks. Just to be clear about this, for anyone who is still confused:
A charger is a device that accepts 110v to 240v alternating current, like is used in homes, and converts it to direct current that can be used to charge a battery.
A charging dock is a device that can be used to connect a charger to a land line supply of alternating current electricity.
A charging dock is not a charger any more than a boat dock is a boat. In fact a charging dock is really just a very fancy extension cord with some sophisticated checking built in to make it impossible to electrocute yourself no matter how stupidly you abuse it. Saw the cord in half – no problem. Poke hairpins into the contacts while standing barefoot in a puddle of water – no problem.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:28 pm)Very uncool move, IMHO.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:28 pm)Probably because the last time Americans embraced sacrifice was WWII. Unfortunately, we can’t seem to realize that oil and deindustrialization presents just as big a threat in the long term…
Meanwhile, our interest rates are now set in Tokyo and Beijing. And our government pays more attention to Lobbyists for foreign corporations than they do to the American people.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:30 pm)I would.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:30 pm)If I lived in Sothern Cali You would have at least one more from me… I am thinking that all the volts will be spoken for in less than a week.
I also find it interesting that GM’s inital release areas mostly have the demographics of higher incomes, perhaps this was part of the plan all along.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:31 pm)Looks like the wife and I will keep ambling along in our old 120k-mile Prius along for another couple of years.
Hopefully I can get my financial house in order, while I wait for the competition to catch up and for the price to drop!
It’s good to see such an innovative vehicle on the market, but I’m disappointed that $41k is just above my “can’t even think about buying it” price. It’s priced similarly to the Corvette and to some of the large luxury SUVs and pickups that Chevy sells, so maybe it won’t look out of place on the lot. But the price alone was enough to deter me from even thinking about those vehicles.
Also, a $40k vehicle would look out of place in my modest neighborhood — my neighbors would start a foreclosure watch if I bought such a vehicle.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:31 pm)“….. and you’ll get the Chevy Volt with all this Standard Equipment for the bargain basement price of $41,000.00 ! ”
(sound of crickets)
Note:
There are rumors that the THINK City (soon to be built in Indiana) will come in around $21,000 after the Federal Tax Credit is applied.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:34 pm)That’s great news! Is that to buy or lease?
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:34 pm)yea, but you forgot the millions that GM got in subsidy from Uncle Sam for research, development, and manufacture of advanced technology for efficient vehicles. They are double dipping–taking your tax credit by pricing at 41 instead of 34k, and getting paid on the back-end by direct government subsidy.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:35 pm)I did not say everyone could afford this. As mentioned in an earlier post, I pointed out that there are many cars priced much higher with snob appeal being the reason for the elective purchase. In the world of business, you get to see how truly elective dollars become when desire is behind them. “No, Dr, I can’t afford that root canal because I have a cruise to go on in October.” You can’t get blood out of a turnip. BUT, press hard enough and you will see that many here who were willing to spend the money when they thought it was $6000 less could indeed find the money if they wanted to. A huge percentage of people are confined to spending $5000 on a used car. Those people are not visiting this forum. People here knew (if they were honest with themselves) that something around $30K was the entry point of participation in this EREV club. I myself (as someone else here also thought) thought a realistic (psychological) barrier would be $40K that GM wouldn’t venture across ($39,999). Frankly that is my biggest complaint. GM could have priced this just $1001 less and a lot of this bitching isn’t happening. People should be honest with themselves and decide what is important and where they spend their money. My point is that if your dollars can do some good beyond just you, it may be a good decision to arrange your finances accordingly.
-4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:38 pm)Although I have followed the venelopment of the vold from the intro of the concept, I have to say I’m a bit dissapointed in the 41,000 cost. I currently drive a Lexus (actually 3) and at 41K (or even 33K) I can have a VERY nice Lexus – sorry…but at that price the volt is not cost effective for me. My consideration now will lean towards the Leaf.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:39 pm)So you think we need to tax people until they make the right choice
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:39 pm)In the past, it was discussed here that not everybody will be eligible for the $7500 federal tax credit, depending on how much money you make.
I don’t see how the Leaf (and now the Volt) announced special lease rates with the $7500 credit factored into the monthly payments. Will leaseholders have to sign some sort of agreement with the dealer first?
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:39 pm)That still does not make the car 100% profit as others are stating. There were signifigant R&D costs but to suggest that the 41,000 is pure profit is short sighted. There are materials cost, labor costs, etc. The US subsidies were to keep GM afloat and to provide for R&D. I was opposed to the bailouts and look forward to the government being paid back at GM’s IPO.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:40 pm)You can get a 1300 sq. ft. 5 year old house in Las Vegas for $82k these days…
-3
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:41 pm)The Realists have taken a lot of flak and negative votes, especially over price. Many True Believers were expecting the Wonder-Mobile to check in at less then $30K, net after rebate, and some spoke hopefully of under $25K. The Realists listened to El Lutzbo and, when he said $40K, they listened.
And now… well… I’ll be darned… the thing turns out to be even more expensive than I expected (I didn’t think GM would go over $40K for marketing reasons).
The Realists are being vindicated on price, just as they were on GM’s Chapter 11.
Now, we can all just wait for the other shoe to drop… CS mode fuel economy is going to be under 40, as opposed to the fantasy numbers the True Believers like to kick around.
Although… I must admit… I doubt any of the Realists thought GM would require premium in the Wonder-Mobile. GM has certainly exceeded our expectations on that score.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:41 pm)The lease price is the best option for two reasons and they could be classed as the same reason. Battery and obsolescence. The battery life is unknown and significant improvements for EVs and batteries is on the horizion.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:43 pm)Um. YES!
When you consider all of the external costs of gasoline in the federal budget, I believe that should be payed for by the end user of the product.
Military costs to ensure oil relations
Clean up costs and economic losses from oil spills
Oil subsidies
Air polution, water pollution
etc.
Why should a Escalade driver using thousands of gallons per year get the same tax as a prius driver using only several hundred for these costs. (Or a biker using 0 gallons) These are pid out of the general fund supported by income tax even though they are tied to demand for international and domestic oil. The price should be reflected in the product, not across the board.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:44 pm)Well said.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:44 pm)With the lease option being so attractive versus the outright purchase numbers, I think I may try my first lease on a Chevy Volt! Although, I’ll probably have to wait a year or so before there’ll be one available at a showroom near me…
I wonder how much the price will drop on Gen 2???
LJGTVWOTR!
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:47 pm)You missed the last sentence I edited while you jumped on what I wrote. Read again. I asked this question OUTRIGHT of the Volt guy FROM GM. I’ll state it again, because many here asked the same question (“If I had a 220v dryer outlet in my garage…”). The response FROM THE GM GUY indicated that nothing stands in my way of doing this. The communication ENABLES the outlet to charge. If the outlet can just plain charge without being told to do so, viola- Volt charging at 220 with <$100 in Home Depot parts (nothing from Radio Shack) and you've saved yourself a ton of $$. It is not the best way, nor the right way, but it is A WAY to charge your Volt.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:48 pm)Based on comments I am seeing online (mostly all negative ridicule and scorn with a fair amount of ignoramus thrown in), GM’s pricing has helped reduce the potential demand for the Volt. If the intent was to create a favorable buzz, it failed. “Luckily”, they only have to sell 8,000.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:48 pm)“Greatly lessen the importance of foreign oil…?” “Greatly?”
Have you looked at GM’s production plans?
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:49 pm)I prefer to speak in “tact,” or “It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.” You might want to try it sometime.
My point was that often the choice with the lower price tag is actually more expensive when all the real costs are taken into account.
A carbon tax does not substitute for a gas tax. They are two different things. And both are necessary, IMHO.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:51 pm)not surprising but priced waay too high considering newer batteries are getting better mileage between charges. Leasing is the way to go for now considering the unknown – how much to replace a battery etc. Still, the koreans or japanese will have a better option in 2 years for half the cost so I am waiting.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:53 pm)I am also a bit disappointed… I thought for sure they would announce “$34,990…. -7500 = $29,990, under $30k as promised!”… But still… I priced out a Prius V, Fusion hybrid, and the new Lincoln MKZ hybrid with the options I want… they ranged from $32,200-$34,400… so a Volt at $33,500 after tax credit really isn’t all that out of line everyone… Granted, the Prius V has the auto-levelling LED headlights, something I really wanted the Volt to have… also, that Prius has the backup camera which is an option on the Volt… but still, for something so new and revolutionary… I am still leaning towards a Volt.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:53 pm)The right choice is to buy the affordable LEAF or Prius that gets 50MPG+.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:54 pm)How many people would have voluntarily paid for a catalytic converter back when we had leaded gas? You cannot count on people to use their checkbooks in conjunction with societal good. No one likes big brother telling them what to do, but I enjoy a great many restaurants that I never could until smoking ordinances were placed in effect. Some laws (and taxes) are good for us.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:54 pm)check your facts.
Volt 16 kw batter, Leaf 24kw battery, 16 x 2.5 is not 24.
The main difference is usable. the Volt will tap 50% from 30-8-%SOC, and use thermal management to maintain battery life and AER range. the leaf? air cooled, higher percentage of SOC.
Differnece. In AER, regardless of the weather, and assuming normal driving the Volt will get you 40 AER miles from Canadian winter to Arizona desert.
The Leaf is not likely to do that with drastically lower AER in extreme temperature.
Battery is only 1.5x the Volt’s, add in Ice, controls, software, some nifty gearing, a ton of features no available, themal management and I think it ok..you line of reasoning is incorrect to me.
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:56 pm)Only time will tell if the $41K MSRP was a good choice for GM. Per past comments from GM, the Volt will break with conventional pricing of future models…lower price. It will take 30-40% drop in price to get “comfortably under $30K”. The price and plans to lower the price for Volt 2.0 are the main reason that I will have to pass. The early adopters should not consider resale value…GM just might deliver.
%10 drop – $36.9K
%20 drop – $32.8K
%30 drop – $28.7K
Someone should start a poll on the predicted percentage drop in MSRP for Volt 2.0. It should be noted that Toyota did not lower MSRP of the Prius. GM’s approach at pricing is a double edged sword.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:56 pm)GM never said they wanted to sell the Volt to a particular group. The idea is to build a car. And sell it. Make money by providing options. And charge for service visits (minus a cup of coffee). The 40,000 2011/2012 Volts will sell as they are produced. The drivers will be the test group (via OnStar) for GM to realize areas for R&D improvement.
The bottom line is getting the Volt on the road. Which will happen. It’s a start and will likely spread to other car makers delivering EV and EREV cars and crossovers at a competitive price. The $41,000 MSRP is actually a boost to the EV movement. Giving competitors plenty of room to sell theirs at a comfort zone price of $36,999.
$4000 X 40,000 (units) = $160 million profit through Spring of 2012. How will the announced MSRP effect the GM IPO? We’ll need to wait and see.
=D-Volt
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:57 pm)Right from an old GM-Volt post:
From Ed Whitacre: The Volt “is going to sell in the low 30s,” said Whitacre. “We’ll get a margin on that.”
http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/18/exclusive-gm-ceo-says-chevy-volt-will-sell-in-low-30s-and-for-a-profit/
This is why the price announcement upsets me. We were lied to.
join thE REVolution
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (2:58 pm)CNN named Volt as Halo and GM do not expecting to earn any money. The named price was expected long ago. There is unexpectedly low lease price. This gives us idea that the $41 000 is just marketing point indicating ‘value for money’ and in reality price is extreamly atractive and this will lead to very high demand.
I say – go GM.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:00 pm)And that is a choice that most people will not make without the cost of gas reflecting its true cost including all externalities.
When I lived in Spain everyone had fuel efficient cars and rarely used them why? Gas was 1.5 euro per litre. (Approx $6-7 per gallon.)
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:01 pm)Nah, leave John-boy at home.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:02 pm)Am I the only who sees the folly of this reasoning? I guess, then, it was never about getting off the oil. So why go for the Leaf? Total contradiction. So you think the Leaf is a luxury vehicle. (Head shaking)
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:03 pm)I figured $40k, but the ting is, it’s only $6k less than what I paid for my house…. I can see the point, but I don’t see too many swarming around it though, it’s simply too much money. The government should chip in the $7500 like the other gimic, cash for clunkers, when a person signs the paperwork at closing the sale.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:07 pm)early March 2008, Toyota cut the price of Prius by up to eight percent or US$3,000 (check wiki)
they also cut the price by several hundred dollars when Honda re released the Insight
I anticipate that after 200,000 volts have been sold the price will magically be dropped by about $7500 dollars, Just a thought.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:07 pm)shaun, the government does it now, if your a smoker you know. very expensive habit to have. Just one example.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:08 pm)You folks are CRAZY !!!!!! Remember Henry Ford made cars affordable to all Americans. If you are serious about getting us off gas, price this car around $19,500.00.
It’s exciting, the price is too high for the average American.
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:08 pm)With that high of a price the Volt should have been branded a Cadillac instead. I assumed the whole point of making it a Chevy was to appeal to the masses but not at a ridiculous price. It will undoubtedly sellout because of the low production volume but it will never be the people’s EV like a Nissan LEAF may end up being. Good luck with your Volt to all those that can afford it. Bye.
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:11 pm)With the production volumes announced I was expecting $40k, so GM went up to $41k before options start..wow.
Considering the few vehicles they will be making for the first two years (at least, since they haven’t said anything beyond that) this is probably a good price to keep demand closer to production volumes (although I’m sure they’ll sell out every one of them for the first two years, even at $41k).
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:11 pm)I didn’t actually miss or jump. From what I saw of the Tesla, which may not be applicable at all, even if your Home Depot set up runs your arc welder at 240 v, it will still have to digitally handshake correctly with the on-board charger or you will be charging closer to 120 V than 220V. I don’t see GM taking on the liability nationwide and at a mass scale to set up their on-board chargers any differently.
Perhaps folks with home built units will tell us about their experiences and what the costs and performance results are.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:14 pm)Wasn’t the current ~18year-old generation going to be the first generation (in America) where the majority will have a less-comfortable life than their parents?
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:16 pm)I will.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:18 pm)Webchat on Autobloggreen.com going on now.
Premium fuel is for better fuel efficiency (tested with this engine at 5-10% improvement) More spark higer octane resists knocking
Premium fuel will go longer without going stale
EPA will not allow them to share efficeincy – EPA label will contain a lot of information on efficeincy
-8
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:19 pm)This price will not allow the majority of Americans to even *think* about getting one. If you think that future cheaper batteries will result in a more affordable Volt in a few years – I have a bridge to sell you people.
The fact of the matter is when the government incentives run out the Volt be cheaper to make but not $7,500 cheaper. So it will still remain a $40,000+ car for its lifetime.
EVEN CRAZY EDDY (The Car Dealer) says that too damn high !
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:22 pm)At $41K the dealer mark up problem will go away. I’d rather have GM get that money than the dealer. GM thinks that they can sell the cars for $41K – $7.5K or they wouldn’t price the car that way. There are tons of over $40K cars and SUVs out there. Just drive by your local elementary school and look in the parking lot. Over half of the cars parked there are SUVs. There’s still lots of money in the country.
I think the primary buyer of the Volt will be suburban housewives. That’s who bought the early Priuses. They need to wave their Eco flag. More importantly, they have exactly the driving pattern that the Volt is designed for. The go to the school, shopping. soccer practice, etc. They pay 2-3 times the price for organic vegetables why not pay for an electric car. They can afford the extra money to be environmentally friendly so they will.
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:23 pm)These were deposit orders to PURCHASE, but I don’t think the news about the Lease Program has gained momentum, but I am sure it will. Since the car is not here yet, customers have plenty of time to change to a lease.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:24 pm)Tony Posawatz sounds like a politician.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:39 pm)$33,500 is in the “low 30s”…
+10
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:39 pm)An excellent and adult response to a disappointing announcement.
Is this more than what I had hoped for? Yes. Am I willing to pay more for what I want and what we all need? Yes.
We… All of us… need to pull ourselves together and treat our countries addiction to oil. In WWII we had victory gardens, people sacrificed all the luxuries of life to reach victory over our enemies. Why is now any different? Only how we fight has changed. I will pay more, I will sacrifice and I will lead the way. Some of you will not be able to follow right now because of the economy… I understand. There are many who can and I urge you to join with me to lead the way for us all.
Harrier1970
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:41 pm)You said it so well…see you there.
I have a feeling, had Wagoner and his team still been in place (don’t know about Fritz and Co.) the pricing and the volumes would have been decidedly different…JMHO of course.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:42 pm)I’m fairly certian his quote was not factoring in the tax credit.
join thE REVolution
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:43 pm)I missed the 1st 15 minutes of the videocast, so I only heard the mkt’g fluff. Was there any discussion of today’s big news, the pricing? I submitted several pricing questions (easy to tough) but no response.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:43 pm)Though oddly, the lease terms seem to reflect that price, hmmmm.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:45 pm)Sitting here listening to the on-line Q + A. The answers don’t seem that urgent or important anymore. With the MSRP at $41K, I’m in no hurry. I’m actually getting bored. I’m hearing them taking questions they have already answered. The On star and customer support stuff is starting to give me the impression it’s too much communication and a potential nuisance and distraction.
Maybe I’ll be more interested in buying when Gen II rolls out. I’m interested in the technology still, but I can’t see myself as an early adopter any longer.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:45 pm)Since you are (or were) a frequent poster prior to this day, I had previously been pleased with most of what you had to write. Your attitude went down the toilet today. You apparently had unrealistic expectations on the price. Everything you are writing today is filled with venom and emotion. I suggest you move on. I don’t know where you get your “pompous” adjective from, but you know nothing about my background. You decide you can lecture me based on your upbringing, yet how could you know that I indeed grew up in a single parent family with little means.
This car is not an iphone or HDTV. The biggest reason to get this vehicle is its IDEOLOGY (independence from foreign oil, the oil spill in the Gulf, global warming, etc.) Many here would have said that until the price displeased them. In speaking my opinion today, I would try to remind those who are complaining here to renew their dedication to the ideology. Whether you can afford this car or not, the desire to rid us of oil should remain in front of other car purchase decisions. GM does not have to be the be-all-end all going down this road. By all means, buy a Leaf if that is your answer to GM’s sale price. Buy a used Prius. Whatever. But someone who says they are going BACKWARD in fuel efficiency even though they know it’s wrong- I have no use for that kind of self-focused, ego-inflating, materialistic type of individual. While I don’t think you are one of them, insulting me provides you little credibility. I am sure there are others in Volt nation who are a bit shocked at how nasty you got today. Again, move on.
REDUCE. REUSE. RECYCLE.
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:47 pm)“Disappointed but sucking it up” and “can’t afford it” are both conclusions that potential customers will draw. Where I fall will depend on my status when Volt comes to Ohio, and who knows when that will be? They said they wouldn’t artificially limit production, but it sure seems like it. The high price definitely is a signal that they don’t want as many people knocking down doors to get one. Bob Lutz said it would be significantly below $40,000…something changed, maybe it was just his presence.
Also, Posawatz mentioned biofuel ratings…do they know something about flexfuel capability that I don’t? They said they were dropping it, but hopefully it’ll come in with Gen 2. Really, I hope Gen 2 has diesel/biodiesel options!
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:47 pm)Well, no answer on the question about residual value on the Volt at the end of the lease.
They did answer the “Why premium gas” question.
Not very well IMO, but said it was because it wouldn’t go stale as quickly and gives 5% to 10% better mileage. I don’t know about where you live but here we pay at least 20% more for premium gas so it is cost negative. I also think that this “stale” issue is exaggerated, can’t speak for a car, but I have used gas for small engines, lawnmower etc. that has been in a can for 2 years without any apparent problem.
-3
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:47 pm)Well in that case a LEAF is more a viable solution as well as affordable. I Can get past that lame 40 mile range with the LEAF withiout gas.
OR even a Prius. 3 gallons in a Volt gets me (40 + (35 * 3) = 145 miles and 3 gallons in a 2010 Prius get me (3 * 50) = 150.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:48 pm)But you had me down for “Entertainment”, so as I said: I’ll bring the DIP! He doesn’t eat much either.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:51 pm)#218 said “According to my calculations, even though the payments on the Volt will be higher than I expected, if I drive 40 miles per day, 5 days a week, I am probably going to save maybe $90/month in “fuel” costs by going to electricity instead of using gasoline (at around $3/gal with my 20 mpg vehicle).”
I wonder why you do not consider choices in the middle: ICE or hybrid cars with much better than 20 mpg, that cost much less than $34k.
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:51 pm)BTW, I asked 5 questions; no surprise: they picked the most innocuous one.
At least I got a “shout out” to the site …
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:53 pm)For those planning to attend the “Teeth Gnashing/Wail-In,” it’s BYOT (Bring Your Own Tissues). Thx.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:54 pm)I missed the chat, but going off of what you have here:
Interesting they would mention knocking. This leads me to think that high temps under the hood (and resultant knocking) may indeed be the real reason for premium fuel. The 5-10% efficiency gain won’t happen unless they’re running higher compression. So when the list the specs on the engine we’ll know what’s up. — If they were having knock issues then you could sort of say higher octane was increasing efficiency because it let them return to normal spark advance, but that would be a B.S. way of explaining the need for premium fuel.
There may be a small element of truth that higher octane retains less water, but requiring premium fuel to solve the contaminated fuel issue would seem to be a very odd solution. There would be lots of other ways around this problem that wouldn’t require premium fuel.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:54 pm)Congrats, and I hope you keep us posted on the experience.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:54 pm)I think the $41,000 price was designed to get many of us to lease the car instead of purchasing. This gives GM much more control and a second sale price later. Smart. Too damn smart to my way of thinking. The Nissan Leaf or some other vehicle is looking better all the time. Every “announcement” coming from GM cements this decision more and more.
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:56 pm)It is a good start. See you on the roads!
Harrier1970
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:57 pm)Just talked to my dealer. He noted I have come in every week ( i am #2 on the short list) to ask about the VOLT. I had to tell him the price. :+} I am a “local” and they do want to see what they can do… but….
He did note he is getting more calls about the car now. He said one guy offered to pay 5k over price.
The salesperson noted everything is now in flux. If the demand continues to grow they will look at ways to make money.. Even auctioning off one of the cars in the future. They get two, one is the demo.
I noted if there is an auction or a big dealer mark up I will pass. No car, even the VOLT is worth it when at this price there are a LOT Hybrid options that are cheaper and even the Lincoln Hybrid at around 35K. I like these guys… they are business people and I understand the game.
There will be more competitors in the future with as good or better cars. The prices will become reasonable and WE will have our say.
Seems too bad GM was so transparent about this car, creating a good early following, hinted at some expectations, and then set a price the took a lot of the “loyal” folks out of the market.
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:57 pm)Even at $41,000, they knew they would sell every one they make in year one and two. Make some profit while they can. Some of us will remember this later. I will also remember every dealer that tries to add thousands to the cost just to make more profit off of those of us who have been following the Volt for over 3 years and have been wanting one as bad as any one.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:58 pm)Well I HAVE $2k and $350/mo. is greatly offset by the gas savings. So Leasy Goodness here I come!
Can’t pass up driving a $44k vehicle for 3yr’s for about $150/mo.!!!
Price is NOT BOLD though.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:58 pm)I was going to defend Ted myself, but you’ve done it nicely here.
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (3:59 pm)Here’s a thought: I know there are many here who have now decided that they cannot affor a VOLT, but isn’t it possible that there may be some people out there who may have been considering a $50,000 Lexus or BMW or Benz and have now decided to go the other direction because ‘electric vehicles’ are the future and it’s the right thing to do? It could happen. Really. It could.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:00 pm)People were interested in the Volt for different reasons, but I want to ask the people who were driven by ‘getting off oil’ what their current and previous cars were, along with mpg ratings.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:01 pm)Well, as in the video, GM quotes “after tax rebate” prices first and explains later that it is after tax. The Volt with options was quoted at $37500, I think, without mentioning the tax (because that was already explained for the base price of $33500). $33k5 is in the low $30s. Clearly it is important from GM’s viewpoint that customers think of Volt prices with tax rebate already deducted. It is reasonable that anyone who can afford a new car, pays enough taxes that this is valid.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:02 pm)In that situation, I’d just rent and leave the Leaf at home. It all depends on what you’re looking for.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:04 pm)You can get a house in Detroit for $3,000. One down the street from me sold for $30K not long ago. Its a buyers market.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:04 pm)So all the “Trolls” were correct. The volt does cost too much for the general public and it is a “Niche” product. Yet all of you Voltards kept pressing it will be less.
So what is the CS mode mpg? Yup, it’s “Comparable to a Corolla”, a 100% internal combustion engine mpg comparison. But the Voltards kept saying the “Trolls” were wrong.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:07 pm)Add,
If it turns out they are running premium fuel solely to reduce knock (not running higher compression) than this, in my mind would be a very bad sign. It would likely mean there are more problems that will later show themselves as a result of wrong engine choice/bad design parameters to start with.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:08 pm)Roy H has a good point.
Does anyone know what he energy density of regular gas verses premium is???? I am not sure there is more energy is any to offset 20% cost jump. I believe Diesel is about 20 to 30% higher in energy.
Too much “smoke” involved with the explanations by the GM guys.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:10 pm)Yeah, I heard “Jackson”. At least you got ONE answered. I wonder why they wouldn’t pick my :So when is Gen II???” query (g).
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:12 pm)Diesel energy density is 108% that of petrol.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:13 pm)While that might eventually bring the price of the technology down to where the rest of us can buy it, I can’t get that excited about someone else’s new car. I don’t buy bleeding edge computer tech either.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:13 pm)Have a good time in that Corolla! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:13 pm)Personally, I’m with you at over 100%
You see I was hoping for the 1st edition of an historic American technology, with the ability to use E85, and as a daily driver. For about the price of an Aveo after the Tax credits and California incentives. Plus a 150,000 mile 10 year warranty. When batteries prices finally allowed a longer range BEV to be sold at lower prices, in perhaps five or six years, I would use my Volt as a second car and for longer trips .
Later still, I would have a classic early edition of an American road going technological masterpiece, after saving tens of thousands of dollars in gasoline costs. The first ever Volt. A museum worthy low volume classic? And for the price of a well equipped Aveo after incentives. Could it be that I may have been hoping for a bit too much?
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:14 pm)That came really close to one of mine.
My least innocuous question:
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:15 pm)No change.
Price has been a very high priority for years.
Now it is just much easier to see why.
-4
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:16 pm)Here it is MPG everyone is talking about. Ok first depending on what is being used the car will have a wide range of MPG. If you run little electricity and don’t run the air conditioner etc you will get about 500 miles on a full tank + charge. What that means is 40 miles on battery 460 miles on gas. The tank size is 9 gallons 460/9 = 51.11 MPG. Now we may want to reduce that some for electrical use IPOD/PHONE Charge/Radio/Amp for 12 in SUBS/AC total miles of 400 on battery range 30 miles 370/9 = 40mpg… So the miles per gallon is between 40 – 50mpg depending on electrical usage. The obvious benefit is that you can recharge the battery and not make your electric bill go up to much which cost yourself little. For me a mute point because I drive 100 miles a day just to get to work and back. That has nothing to do with the 3 or 400 miles I drive on the weekends to go up north party etc.
What I want to know is why they cant make the gas motor produce enough electricity to not only run the car but charge the battery at the same time. I think this could be done quite easily but is obviously not a feature. What they should do is make it go the 4 to 500 miles on full charge plus gas and then at the end of that 500 miles have a fully charged battery pack to drive on from there. I hope they get it right the next version they put out. All of you savvy enough may figure out a way to hook up an alternator to the gas motor and charge your batteries with the added alternator and possibly a inverter or some such device. Although the loss of electricity by conversion seems redundant. I don’t think of myself as very bright but this seems obvious to me.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:17 pm)Oh, for crying out loud, if I can’t convince you with a direct answer FROM THE GM GUY, what will it take. Just wait till it gets here. You’ll have to have a 220 breaker available anyway. So if you decide to try this or not, I don’t care. And FWIW, you can buy a 220v generator, plug it into your home breaker box, blow the whole kit and kaboodle to smithereens and guess what- no handshaking required. Move on. I am done with this. I only kept up this long because other people had the 220v dryer outlet question like I did.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:18 pm)BTW,
Does today’s announcement mean we have finally heard the last of Dave G’s incessant and ridiculous proclamation that the gen-set costs $2,000?
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:18 pm)Brace yourselves:
http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/07/27/nissan-announces-8-year100000-mile-warranty-on-leaf-will-take-firm-orders-in-august/
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:18 pm)GOOD Point.
I understand GM and the Dealers need to make profits. It is up to them to decide how. When there is a perception (real or not) of “over pricing” buyers do remember especially when other options become available. Next time, if two cars are close in price I for one will remember past dealings and that will influence the purchase.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:21 pm)Thanks…I just listed the vehicles the way that GM listed them in their multimedia webpage. If a hidden agenda exists, blame it on GM.
So you are right…only 3 vehicles start over $41K. Or more true, only the Corvette qualifies since less expensive versions of the Tahoe and Suburban exist.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:22 pm)Well, next time don’t put in an “innocuous question.”
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:22 pm)It has nothing to do with what car you buy. It has everything to do with your self-absorbed belief that the most upsetting thing in your life is that the government doesn’t do more to make more oil available so that, in the short run, you can save 2 cents going to the grocery store. If you want a picture painted, compare your approach to harrier1970′s post. Pay attention to the part where he says: “I will pay more, I will sacrifice and I will lead the way.” It’s one thing if you’d like to do the right thing but can’t afford to. That’s distressing. It’s something altogether different when you’re so narcissistic that you just don’t care about anything other than what’s convenient for you.
Unfortunately I think you’ve summed up Ken’s approach to the world perfectly.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:23 pm)Why would you burn gas at $2.50 & up (mostly up) to replace $1.50 (worst case) in electricity?
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:23 pm)LOL, you win. And I thought that MINE was therapeutic.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
-3
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:24 pm)They’re just complying to industry standards. No biggie. GM did the same thing but with a smaller pack, again, no biggie.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:24 pm)So we’ve got 2 EVs with the same battery warranty and the same monthly payments of $350. Interesting choices.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:25 pm)So then, none get answered. Brilliant.
Those guys need to remember that we’re here, watching. That message is greater than any actual question.
I gave them a choice, and it’s disappointing to see what they feel comfortable addressing.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:25 pm)Thanks for the info.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:27 pm)The EPA won’t let them make EPA economy claims. The EPA can’t prevent GM from reporting on their experience on the “Freedom Drive.” Still, GM remains silent. Curious, no?
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:30 pm)YES! The lease is dirt cheap. They could lease a lot of ‘em at $350/mo., IMO, especially once they own AmeriCredit and its sub-prime lending capacity (as people in the mortgage and auto biz’s have known forever, it’s the affordability of the monthly pymt that matters to a lot of people). I’m not convinced that the residual value will be that high, though, so GM is taking the residual risk with this rapidly evolving tech, although on a small number of units.
I wonder if Nissan lowers the Leaf’s lease pricing.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:32 pm)Interesting parallel. Since you brought it up- The model T cost nearly THREE TIMES AS MUCH when it was introduced as it cost 10 years later. The Volt’s price will drop when it is not the only game in town.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:32 pm)I was starting to feel more sad, lonely, left out and angry than ever. Wow. Then I realized it was bring your own tissue – not bring your own Tesla
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:34 pm)There was nothing to comply with. The Leaf (or any BEV) does not require a battery warranty. Different story for cars that “emit”.
The Leaf warranty is a very big deal imo. The battery life (and warranty) is probably the biggest factor when deciding to make the jump to an electric car.
/I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s another surge of pre-sales because of the warranty announcement.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:36 pm)Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t “Wagoner and his team” the guys that drove GM into bankruptcy?
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:37 pm)There seems to be a communications disconnect here. Maybe we’re using different words for the same thing.
Charger: Internal to the Volt. Takes 120 or 240 VAC, converts to regulated DC, manages the battery recharge process.
240 VAC Wall Unit: Has hard-wired connection to 240 VAC branch circuit in home (or business). Other end is cord with SAE J1772 standard plug. In between are digital controllers to prevent charging currents from reaching the plug until the wall unit has, over a digital interface in that same plug, exchanged data with the car to assure safe operation. The Volt cannot be charged without this exchange of data.
Home Depot: Place where you can buy all the electrical supplies to run a branch circuit from the home entrance panel box to the Wall Unit.
Please note that you can’t buy the SAE J1772 plug at Home Depot. You can’t buy the digital controller inherent to the safety interlocks in the wall unit at Home Depot.
It’s not the branch circuit that’s going to cost $2K.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:38 pm)Disappointing MSRP, but can’t say it wasn’t unexpected. If the Volt can’t get the price down to compete with gas prices (over life of car), it will become nothing more than a niche car.
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:40 pm)Yeah, how many of us here really are used to paying cash for a car? And how many of us here have EVER BOUGHT an electric car?
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:44 pm)Yet they were so quick to release the 320mpg……..BLAHAhahaha!
$41K and after 40 miles it turns into a Corolla. BLABLAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Well there’s an honest “Dealer” for you.
It’s the “Transformemr” you saw in the movie but should’ve been a “Decepticon”!
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:44 pm)I just assumed it would be self-evident the “low 30s” quote was post tax credit.
How else are you supposed to make a profit on a vehicle (that costs $40,000 to manufacture) by selling it in the “low 30s” pre-credit ?
My bad…
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:45 pm)Shoot! Well, I was happy and now I’m SAD! I thought that it was “Bring your own Trollop! Oh, well. I’ll still be there….
I assume that this meeting will be on a bus route.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:45 pm)Off-Topic on this slow news day (LOL):
Lyle, how do you feel about Statik replicating your website? Feel used, or are you happy for him?
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:47 pm)Correction…
Yet they were so quick to release the 320mpg……..BLAHAhahaha!
To
Yet they were so quick to release the 230mpg……..BLAHAhahaha!
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:49 pm)But $33,500 is not what it is selling for.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:55 pm)Geez! Why spend $40K+ on this car when a decent hybrid will be so much less expensive? I am really interested in EVs, but not at a luxury car price. Who are they trying to impress, the oil companies?!
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:55 pm)Dunno, how?
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:57 pm)Marketing blew it AGAIN! Unbelievable. All that R&D effort, All of that board and exec support from Lutz and the like has been laid to waste with this idiotic decision. They have priced themselves into the niche market and nailed down the fate of the most revolutionary vehicle GM has ever made. Yes, supply will now comfortably meet demand, but was never supposed to be the goal. The idea was to have lines of buyers outside the door, to increasing GM’s visibility. Showing the world a reborn GM with a bold vision.
What… Were… They… Thinking!
This is a travesty. As a taxpayer and therefore part owner in GM, I demand change! DO we have no voice? Do we really have to stand for this? I say NO! I say Volt Nation shows their OUTRAGE. I say we, as loyal Volt enthusiasts stand up and make GM hear us.
Boycott?
Protest?
Awareness Day?
Lets here Ideas. I’m all in. Who’s with me? Don’t let the marketing boffins destroy this engineering masterpiece.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:59 pm)On average, 1 gallon (3.8 L) of diesel fuel contains approximately 155×106 joules (147,000 BTU), while 1 gallon of gasoline contains 132×106 joules (125,000 BTU).
Matt,
Hybrids are a very small step away from oil independence while the Volt is a larger step away. The best hybrid gets about 50 mpg while the Volt equivalent in mpg is 236 mpg. Plus the best hybrid sells for around $30,000 even after being on the market for 12 years in the U.S. and it still has a nickle hydride battery.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (4:59 pm)Well, i’m gonna blow my trumpet again about the price.
The price that matters is the price that is on the purchase order/receipt after signing. You know, that long azz yellow piece of paper you get at the end of it all. Nothing in that purchase indicates a subtraction of any rebate, state or fed.
When you drive off of that lot you bought your Volt from, you paid FULL price. Full price is $41,000.00 + ($2,000 or $5,000-depending on dealer). So at best you will be paying $43,000.00 for a Chevy (yeah, I called it a Chevy!).
Lease it’s obviously a different story. I dunno Jack about Leases, jus know it aint yours at the end.
/yeah yeah I know…….tax/lisc/doc fees/dest chgs….
//regardless of my crap above, all the Volts will still sell, just not to me….lol
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:00 pm)If GM ever hopes to dump that “other side of that perception”, They will now need to eat crow! Either they will have to offer GEN 1 down the road for a reasonable price, or roll-out GEN 2 in the summer of 2011 as suggested here by some today.
As for me, the possibility of owning a GEN 1 Volt was nearly impossible: my wife negated getting one from day one, when I began thinking it would be possible. Simply put, when I told her the Volts news of the day, her reply was, “What did you expect!” Well the backup plan is now in effect: the Cruze was second on the block.
I seriously thought that the Volt would put an end to the idea converting an ICE vehicle to electric. Well that idea isn’t so ridiculous now. All those folks out there in that business, must be breathing a little easier now that the Volt is priced so high.
The Volt is still a viable car. In the near future, hopefully, we will see it sold for a price that the masses can afford. This opens the door for other manufacturers to change the direction that electrification of the automotive industry will follow. IMHO, smaller BEV’s are more likely to take the balk of that major market known “the under 40″ group.
Very disappointing news from GM.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
P.S. Trying hard to stay optimistic.
-9
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:01 pm)Looks like I’ll be the one to point out the differences between Volt now and that which we were told about 3.5 years ago are so great the original “vaporware” claims have indeed been validated.
So, what happens next?
To improve emissions & efficiency, we can easily see the engine size shrinking and switching to the more efficient Atkinson pumping cycle.
To reduce cost, we can easily see the size of the battery-pack getting smaller. The added benefit to that would be increased seating space and less overall weight.
The driver interface is far more elaborate (expensive) than it needs to be. That’s an obvious target for lowering price too.
What else?
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:02 pm)I tend to believe (smug and arrogant understatement) that the people who work full time at something and believe it’s important to hire lobbyists to help them, will get a better deal out of the political process. The rest have sheer numbers in their favor, but money can be used to sway mass opinion at critical times anyway. Like during election seasons.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:07 pm)I have been thinking about your post. There is another way this could be written into the 2070 history books:
Back in 2010, General Motors, fresh off of a huge bailout from the taxpayers of the USA, developed a new vehicle called the Volt that was destined to change the face of personal transportation. But in a stunning reversal of their intention to make it an affordable vehicle that could be purchased by many people worldwide, they decided to limit the delivery of the vehicle to very specific areas and in very small quantities. Then they decided to follow their previous patterns of thinking about short term profits instead of long term success and priced this new vehicle so that only the top tier of car purchasers could afford it. They then canceled other announced models based on this technology, for no apparent reason. This chilled the desire of people to once again embrace GM products, and gave the other automobile manufacturers from the USA, Europe, and the Pacific Rim the time to introduce BEV and Serial Hybrid models of their own at a price point that purchasers found much more appealing. So the GM based Voltec technology, which could have owned the market for at least a ten year period, faded into obscurity, only ever having reached a niche status. And that is what is most disappointing, as the engineering that went into this product was very advanced and should have been the beginning of many different models and a long term change in the direction for General Motors.
Etc, etc, etc.
So please don’t blame all of this on me. GM has to bear some of the responsibility. This is not what we were promised over the last three years……………..
JMHO
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:07 pm)Just keep building!
Eventually the folks willing to pay the “EAT” prices will eventually be filled. Then lower the price for the common folks. Then Gen II hits with lower price etc…..
EAT:
(E)arly
(A)dopters
(T)ax
/ok aint a tax but you get the idea.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:11 pm)The car will still sell out. If the marketers do any damage it will only affect the shareholders…Hey, wait a minute, this is an outrage – call your congressman
LOL.
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:13 pm)Was a residual price announced?
RECHARGE,
James
From the article:
” GM is able to offer such a low lease price because of the determination that the car will have a high residual value, though they are not releasing it at this time. ”
~ my belief is ( although it will require HUGE testicles ) that GM will hold off on this leasing information until the release date in which you will realize there is no residual buyout. If there is one, it will be so large that very very few will opt for it.
To GM, this is genius stuff. To the world it is EV-2.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:14 pm)It’s bufoons
HTH,
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
-6
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:15 pm)GM is owned by taxpayers, yes? We have ALREADY subsidized this technology, AND suffered from the offshoring of manufacturing by GM, causing massive loss of jobs for Americans.
Maybe we should nationalize the company and distribute these cars for cost plus a small percentage.
This price is both a slap in the face, and part and parcel of what is holding back the changeover to new technologies. It may very well be too late, but the US needs to get off the Dino-sauce.
Lower the price, and be part of the solution, or perhaps some coercion is in order?
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:15 pm)Not in New York it isn’t. I tried looking at apartments for sale recently. If I wanted to buy a one-bedroom, I’d have to pay $600,000. The cost of living here is absolutely insane.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:16 pm)Here comes the Miller High Life guy, pulling out all the deposits and taking them back home. lol
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:17 pm)Again, to all you nattering nabobs of negativism, I say:
We have to get used to paying more for vehicles now because they have much more content in them as we progress. And the Volt technology is a huge leap forward for efficient transportation in America.
We need to pony up for this advanced technology if we want to free ourselves from the foreign oil slavery that is ruining our economy.
GM did the right thing by developing the Chevy Volt. Now they have to get paid for their efforts.
Go GM!
Go Chevy Volt!
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:18 pm)Energy density of petrol and diesel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:19 pm)Other points:
If I have to wait for 4 or 5 more years, then I really won’t need an E-REV, as I will be retired in 6 years, and will not need the extended range for my daily needs. So a future model BEV with nice styling (which cancels out the Leaf!!!) and a real range of 100 miles will work for me. For the occasional long trip, we will just use our other car.
I guess I will use the Volt money to possibly put solar panels on the roof instead. Time to start searching the net for info…………….
I am really bummed out right now.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:20 pm)I think it’s up to the government to structure economic incentives for the benefit of society as a whole.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:25 pm)===========================
As I recall from my history books, Henry Ford made millions of dollars and went into history by selling a car that could be purchased by almost anyone, not by limiting production and delivery and making it only affordable by a small percentage of the buying public…..
JMHO
-8
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:26 pm)$40,000+ per copy and we’ll still lose money. How many times have we heard this ? Maybe that’s not what everybody wanted to hear, but that is what’s been said many many times.
I am NOT convinced the Volt will sell out. I think there’s a very real possibility that the early adopter rush will stop rushing before GM produces 40,000.
There are going to be lots of ways to spend your green early adopter bucks in the next couple of years. GM continually tells us that the Volt has no competition — this is not true.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:26 pm)As my Volt boner slowly fades, I pop another ‘lil blue pill…
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:28 pm)The same thing you or I would feel comfortable answering if our jobs were on the line, in a company that recently left bankruptcy, where two CEO’s with 25 years or what-have-you at the company were fired in short order and we were working through a 750 million dollar science experiment. Give them some credit for building this remarkable machine and retaining some political savvy. Or the Volt would die along with their careers.
And learn something from Lyle’s playbook, always be nice, polite, supportive, enthusiastic of the effort, but hit ‘em with the hard questions any way. If they’re smart they won’t answer, but the ideas of transparency and we want to know, will be rattling around their brains, simultaneously.
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:33 pm)Yes, sir.
Oh, time will tell
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:37 pm)#387
ClarksonCote: Right from an old GM-Volt post:
From Ed Whitacre: The Volt “is going to sell in the low 30s,” said Whitacre. “We’ll get a margin on that.”
http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/18/exclusive-gm-ceo-says-chevy-volt-will-sell-in-low-30s-and-for-a-profit/
This is why the price announcement upsets me. We were lied to.
join thE REVolution
—————————————————————————————————————————
Did you ever actually read any of my posts relaying that Mr. Whitacre sits on the board of Exxon/Mobile?
Were you privy to one of my posts sharing that one member of GM’s board of directors is deeply involved in investments of oil discovery, oil research and oil exploration? That’s 2 board members totally sold out to crude.
So where’s the big surprise, everybody? With EV-1 GM went to the California legislature, Texaco and anywhere else they could chip away at the mileage and emissions regs or just buy out tech that threatened the oily, greasy status quo.
Is this the “new GM”?
I have an idea many who gave me -1s will …..finally…..realize I’m no naysayer, just a realist and relayer of plain facts, sans the PR b.s. .
RECHARGE!
James
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:37 pm)BTW, how much do you weigh? If that BMI is a tad high, we may have to tax your muffins…..
Same thing.
The devil made me post that. I’ll sit back and watch the philosophical discussions now (g). It’ll take my mind off the Volt.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:38 pm)They would have been better off going for $39,999.00
At least it would have met the expectations somewhat.
But I wouldn’t be to hard on GM. Most people are going to need a second car if they buy the leaf. Once you figure that price in a $41,000.00 volt doesn’t sound to bad..
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:40 pm)Why don’t you wait and see what happens with gen 2? It might be out sooner than you think.
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:46 pm)I thought if you were creating vaporware you had 1) a product with no promised features = cardboard box filled with last years technology. Or 2) no product at all = a warehouse filled with empty cardboard boxes printed with brilliant feature lists for a non-existent product.
Your solution to the vaporware issue is to take away features from the product being delivered? Am I totally confused about what vaporware means?
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:46 pm)Huh?!
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:47 pm)Sadly, now we all know the real reason the initial launch markets were chosen as they were. This price is nothing to those living around me here in the Bimmer-land that is silicon valley (cheapest 3 series is $37k and good luck finding the cheapest one around here). I suspect the price isn’t high enough to stop the dealers from asking for another $10k on top of that around here, but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and call around. Probably will wind up in Irvine, CA again like last time with my WRX.
Folks, I know the price is steep, but it’s way cheaper than the lives of our servicepeople (lives aren’t cheap!) currently protecting our oil supply and that of our grandchildren fighting to protect a dwindling food and water supply. Sometimes you just gotta grit your teeth, eat beans and rice for a few years and do what you gotta do. That’s what voting with your checkbook means. If it were easy, they’d just call it voting.
So, it’s good that there are going to be different options from different manufacturers. I think for my money, I’m still a GO for the Volt. It’s the closest thing to what I want and I’m willing to pay for that.
However, I still refuse to pay a big dealer markup. They don’t add enough value to my car owning experience to justify any more money than they get from the MSRP price.
And no leases. Really, based on what happened a few years ago, are you actually considering leasing an electric vehicle? From GM, even?
I don’t think I’m remotely interested in any kind of lease, thank you very much.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:47 pm)I keep rereading what I wrote and how you responded and I am completely baffled. First off, I in no way implied that GM could charge whatever they wanted for this vehicle. Basic microeconomic theory holds that even a monopoly cannot charge whatever it wants for a product, as people will simply do without. Second, you more or less confirm my complaint as you describe this as something less than a ‘luxury’ car, but you still intend to buy one. Your conflicting statements throughout this rant indicate an emotional response to the price set by GM today (as many here seem to have). You perceive this as a ‘luxury car’ price without the seeming luxury car reward and it obviously stirs hostility. My point was to remove whatever preconception was associated with the ‘Chevy’ moniker and see this car as the groundbreaker it is, regardless of whether it was a Chevy or a Buick. Groundbreakers can still be (relatively) expensive in the early stages. Indeed, the Ford Model T, when introduced, cost three times more than it would ten years later. Competition, when it comes, will certainly change things. “Cool guy”? Huh? Take a Prozac and get some rest.
+7
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:47 pm)Um…just for future reference–never ever ask a woman how much she weighs. Most of us get very offended.
But, in the interest of transparency–I weigh 127 pounds. I’ve been trying to lose five pounds lately. Not too much luck. But my BMI is still very much in the normal range. If they did institute an obesity tax, I’m pretty sure I’d come out a net winner.
As far as a muffin tax–I don’t have a problem with it. Or a soda tax. Food is definitely too cheap in this country. Especially junk food.
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:50 pm)Sorry, out of my range.
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:51 pm)Has anyone else tried the 888 number or web-site. No actual support or order management help whatsoever. I would have thought they would like to announce a huge number of “wait list” customers. With no central system and some local dealers in MI not providing “wait list” opportunities this will look like a failure if they don’t pull things together. Perhaps things are more organized for the CA/NY dealers where they plan to sell all the initial volts?
PS: thank you all for your comments I have enjoyed being a passive reader for many years!
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:53 pm)It’s okay. The 40,000 Volts will sell. And word will filter out that driving electric isn’t a Moon shot. It’s something that is doable and user friendly. The wives (mine included) will be asking to own an electric car sooner than later. As I have said many times here. GM is in the lead now. Others are driving hard to dilute the perception that GM and Nissan are the only games in town. A GM electric car (with cloth seats) at $41K? Or maybe a Honda electric or a Korean electric? I hope GM is playing thier hand to their advantage. The mark up from $36,999 equals $160 million dollars over 2 years. The risk is losing the hearts, minds, and deposit checks of those who wish to believe. As President Obama says, “There is nothing false about hope”. Hope the economy picks up a little. And, for the sake of GM, the competition isn’t overly ambitious with plans to launch similar vehicles in the U.S. market.
Oh, the drama…
=D-Volt
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:53 pm)Agreed. Which is one of the major reasons authoritarian governments get better deals from corporations than democracies do…
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (5:58 pm)Today is a bit of a watershed for gm-volt.com. In the past, many of the regular contributers held onto the idea that they would be able to afford a volt.
Today — most (98%+?) will now have to let the reality sink in that there is no Volt in their future.
After that has sunk in, I would encourage everyone to start considering plan B and seek out realistic alternatives.
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:01 pm)Why not? What’s the worst thing that can happen? I don’t see GM repeating the EV1 experience after all the bad publicity. Plus which the terms on this lease are very different, so that I doubt they could if they wanted to. But, for the sake of argument, say that they did. How exactly are you worse off than if you’d never leased the car?
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:02 pm)So I’m guessing there’s no “Live Free or Die” sticker on the back of your Harley.
+13
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:04 pm)HOLD EVERYTHING!!!
The above is my only other post from hours ago today, AND ALTHOUGH IT HAS OVER 67 “+1′s” SO FAR TODAY, I WAS SERIOUSLY MISTAKEN —AND I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE HERE FOR THAT!!! Here’s why….
After spending most of the afternoon studying both the GM purchase MSRP and the lease offer, reading all the prior posts, calling a GM dealer who is allocated 7 Volts and reviewing my own prior GM leasing experience, I HAVE DONE A 180deg REVERSAL! TO SUMMARIZE MY CONCLUSIONS….
1 – GM wisely chose to announce a $41K base MSRP, in part to establish the Volt’s high value, and in part to help clearly distinguish the Volt from the Leaf (like the high purchase price of an iPhone sets it apart from other cell phones)
2 – GM also chose to offer an extremely (and unusually) attractive lease/purchase option of only $350/month, so those (like myself) could easily afford it (like the actually pretty affordable iPhone wireless plans do vs other plans)
In addition, the very attractive GM lease plan also helps Volt prospects realize that GM fully backs the car and its state-of-the-art technology —i.e., GM eliminates any and all risks to the customer. So, after discussing the lease option in detail with an approved Volt dealer and re-thinking my excellent past experience leasing a GM vehicle from GM for 3 yrs, then converting that lease to a purchase, I now honestly see the marketing wisdom on their part as well as the distinct advantages to most customers of acquiring a Volt by leasing rather than by purchasing …so that’s my present plan.
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:05 pm)I like your style. This is what I have been writing about ALL DAY! Keep up the good fight and look for ways to solve the problem that are within your grasp! I have seen too many bad attitudes today that amount to “Oh, what’s the use?” You’ve got the big picture- take it from someone who has both office and home covered in solar and is still looking for ways to improve. Today I have been called pompous and a sarcastic ‘cool guy’. Yeah, I have some means, but I actually use a reel mower to cut grass. Sure, it’s cheaper than a gas mower, but it’s the principle of the thing. Someone called me a bleeding heart; I guess they think I am a liberal. They know nothing about me (military officer, etc). They have confused passion with liberalism. Until the Volt price was released, I thought I had found some kindred spirit here in this forum. Maybe it is just a temporary lull. People, most of you knew you weren’t going to get this for a couple years anyway. Move on! In the meantime, buy some LED lightbulbs, look into induction cooktops (90% efficient) or make sure you throw out no more batteries in the regular trash. Tomorrow is another opportunity to do the right thing by the planet- and our grandchildren!
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:07 pm)I have read these pages for quite a while now but never posted. Just sat in the back soaking up all the goodies about the volt. I even talked my wife into buying one before the pricing was released. That said…..
Unfortunately I will not be buying one at this price, since I’m not a lease person the gen 1 is out of the picture for me. Even my wife was sad when she heard the price.
I think GM really missed the target on this one, they went high and to the right. Yes they will sell all 40 thousand gen 1′s but that’s not the real issue. I know everyone talks about Gen 2 but the problem is all of the other car makers have already shown they are interested in the EV market in some form or another, whether it be in a BEV or if they are working in some dark closet on their own EREV and not telling anyone.
When the Gen 2′s come out in 2 years, what’s to say Toyota (just using them as an example but it could be anyone) won’t come out with a car that is EREV, maybe not as good but priced alot lower. I do not think they can drop the price of the Gen2 10k (it would be awesome if they could). If any of the car companys can get a car out close to the Volt but at a lower price point, they will steal the thunder from GM’s gen 2 Volt right from under their noses.
It took 3 years + for GM to get the volt to production, it’s not impossible for another car company to get their own EREV out seeings as they will have the feedback from the GM early adopters on what they like and do not like. Kinda makes me sad is all, I think GM should have targeted 35k. That would have been the WOW factor that would have made the buzz about the Volt go insane. I hope all of you that can afford one enjoys it as much as I have reading up on it up to this point.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:08 pm)Also, I’d like to say that my price prediction 2 years ago was eerily accurate. I predicted $38k with a $5k government rebate. That was before either the government rebate was announced or the Volt price. Taken in combination, I was only off by $500 bucks!
http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/18/lutz-40000-is-breakeven-price-for-the-chevy-volt-and-first-generation-will-not-make-money-for-gm/#comment-46953
Just let me know if you need to use my astonishing psychic prediction abilities for anything else. Or better yet, just think about it and I’ll probably pick up on it.
And I still think it should be a Caddy if it’s over $40k, Corvettes and SUV’s notwithstanding. Maybe if it’s a sedan, then.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:11 pm)I don’t have a Harley. But I do believe in freedom. However, to me freedom does not include the right to impose the costs of my behavior on other people.
Do you have any idea how much food is subsidized in this country? Especially junk food? Directly and indirectly? From the billions we spend in farm subsidies, to the water pollution, to the energy consumption. Not to mention all the negative health consequences that the taxpayer is forced to pick up in the form of medicare an medicaid.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:13 pm)Figure in developmental costs (Cruze – low; Volt – high) spread over expected sales volumes (Cruze – high; Volt – low) and you’ll have your answer.
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:15 pm)I agree. There will be plenty of affordable hybrids and other electric vehicles coming onto the market in the near future. Ford’s decision to price the 2011 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid as the same price as the standard MKZ is a sign that some automakers are realizing that they can sell more hybrids by offering lower prices on them.
So, we’ve got the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid, the Focus electric and who knows what else from Ford, the Sonata Hybrid from Hyundai, the plug-in Prius from Toyota, among others.
The 2011 Sonata is a sharp, classy car and the Hybrid, using the lithium-polymer batteries, will definitely be interesting to see. Plus, rumors are that the Sonata Hybrid will be priced at around $25,000, so that will definitely put a downward pressure on hybrid prices.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:21 pm)Now, haven’t we been saying that the VOLT is incorrectly being compared to the LEAF when in fact it should be compared to a small BMW or Audi…? GM Marketing really needs to wake up to this fact RIGHT NOW! The VOLT is not an “economy car” in the classic sense of low low price and high mpg’s… It is NEW TECHNOLOGY in the form of a small luxury car!
Dang! I’m having to explain the VOLT to my own salespeople who daily comment that you can get 2 of the new CRUZE models for the price of 1 VOLT… But that is not the point! And GM marketing guys need to get that message conveyed NOW!
I still think a funny commercial would be one that features a Texas Oil Tycoon and an OPEC Oil Minister standing on the side of the road sobbing like little girls as the 2011 VOLT drives past their gas station…. But then some PC nut job would call it racist, and blah blah blah… You know…
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:22 pm)Only in your own mind.
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:23 pm)Fortunately, I am going through this in reverse order and just commented, positively, on your subsequent comment. As I tried to imply there, this issue is much bigger than GM. It is OUR REACTION that is the important part. I do not have any doom and gloom whatsoever about the Volt. While mentioned several times, it is worth repeating again. The original model T cost over THREE TIMES what it would ten years later. We here are the biggest boosters of the technology and there are over 50K of us. We knew that expected output would not satisfy those demands even out the gate. Maybe you should take the advice of some ‘sour grapes’ type of responses that have shown up. Let the early adopters suck up the R&D costs, those Hollywood types (and so on) that have the cash to burn. Volt gen 2+ will be here before you know it and lots of competitors will either bury GM- or motivate it. Your later post put me in a better mood- hope I can do the same for you. We at Volt nation should not become detractors before one vehicle even hits the dealer lot.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:30 pm)Expensive to some, maybe many, but to a few it’s nothing and they’re only producing a few vehicles this year… Priced right for the short term, it will come down over the long term.
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:34 pm)I’ve read all the comments, debated back and forth in my head. I really want to go green, and I’m a true believer in the plug-in hybrid concept (since way before the volt in fact, I even invested several thousand dollars into Raser technologies, as I believed at the time that they had a revolutionary electric motor on their hands and were the founding member of the plug-in hybrid association).
I’m also a habitual early adopter. I’ve owned every iPhone day one, two iPads, TiVo before anybody knew what it was, 3 cutting edge Macs, I own a frakin’ RED ONE camera (serial #63 for heaven sake) and was the first to buy it in my state… but with today’s announcement…
This early adopter is OUT.
With our first baby on the way and the fact that I make considerably less than six figures. I just can’t come close to justifying this price. I have deposits at two dealers and my name is on no less than 20 lists, but $41,000 plus dealer mark ups… forget it!
I’ve been following the development of the volt since day one and have been obsessivley excited about it. I really expected the price after rebate to be just under 30k. Which was at the top end of my price range.
For the record, I’ve never bought an American vehicle, this would have been my first. And frankly I was damn excited about it. Guess I’ll keep my turbo Passat and start looking to spend that money on solar panels for my home instead.
Now I have serious doubts about GM again. And frankly that just makes me sad.
Note to GM:
You BLEW it, you really did. CHANGE YOUR MIND before it’s too late. Drop the price to $37500 and force your dealers to sell at MSRP or they lose the right to sell Volts. And do this today! Before you lose forever all the positive brand re-building you’ve built up over the last 3 years.
Sincerely yours!
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:38 pm)That of course will be offset with agricultural subsidies and no state taxes. Maybe that’s why we have outsized levels of heart disease arterial sclerosis.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:38 pm)Higher than expected but at $33k within range of most SUV buyers – best selling auto category.
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:43 pm)By mid August both cars will be sold out with GM and Nissan customers cursing the companies for in-graciously placing them so far down on the waiting lists. Do you mean lower the leases for the current model year? With results like this they may begin to discuss raising them.
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:43 pm)If you really believe that the general public is ready to accept BEVs (I don’t), then this is good news in terms of eliminating our oil addiction.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:44 pm)OK, count me out. C’ya.
Hopefully someone else will make an affordable EREV.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:47 pm)$150 a month in fuel costs mean either he drives a lot, or his current car gets poor mpg. If the former then the Volt CS mpg is not going to be competitive against much cheaper ICE cars with similar mpg; and if the latter, a whole slew of cheaper ICE cars with better mpg will save him up to $20k if he goes for basic transport.
People who care about the money savings in fuel are price sensitive to the car purchase price.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:48 pm)I see that I am not the only one who doesn’t like what you wrote.
I have no idea how you grew up. But others here want to help, but can’t. I can, but won’t..at least not yet.
You sound like an environmentalist. I’m not. My reason for buying a Volt is to help eliminate terrorism and hopefully help destroy the economies of the Middle East. Helping the environment is a secondary issue for me.
I didn’t appreciate your lecture because it seemed to you were picking on people that couldn’t afford it.
I raised above my poverty background and can afford of few Volts. I won’t until the masses can afford it.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:52 pm)Let’s hope that GM sells more of ALL of their vehicles in the next year. Maybe that would help bring the price of the Volt down by $5,000 or so by next summer. I hear that Toyota (and Japan, Inc.) subsidized the Prius a lot in the early years after it was put on the market. It would have been a lot more expensive if they weren’t spreading those costs around.
Let’s also hope that the government keeps that $7,500 Federal tax credit in place for a LONG time. Heck the government gives all sorts of special tax breaks for the oil industry. It’s time for the government to do the same thing for the upcoming electric cars. Cut tax breaks for the oil industry and have more tax breaks for the cars of the future!
There are a LOT of reasons that society is going to benefit from transitioning from IC engine based cars to electric cars. Former oilman GW Bush said it best in one of his State of the Union addresses … WE’RE ADDICTED TO OIL. Addiction is a bad thing.
It makes us have to spend gigantic amounts of money on the military so we will have access to this product called “gasoline”. A lot of the global oil supply comes from unstable parts of the world. We can make electricity in America’s back yard in several ways. That will help create more good jobs for Americans. The energy sources that make electricity will all compete vigorously. The electricity source that is the cleanest yet still affordable is what we’ll use … until something even cleaner and cheaper comes along.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:54 pm)perspective from a california resident:
Leaf: $32,780 + $3110 (9.5% tax) – $7500 (fed) – $5000 (state credit) = $23390 + title
Volt: $41,000 + $3895 (9.5% tax) – $7500 (fed) – $0 (don’t qualify for state) = $37395 + title
I’m a big fan of the Volt, a miniature model currently sits on my desk as paperweight… but I’m sorry to say that I cannot justify paying the >$14k premium on the Volt…
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (6:54 pm)This is once again a sad day for GM; they have turned their backs on all of their initial market research on price points. You folks out there are probably going to shoot me for this but why would I buy this car at this price? I can spend a couple of thousand more and buy a Vette. Also, I really do not want to hear about the tax credit, that is all of our money.
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:00 pm)There ya go, (someone making sense)
Destination charges are NEVER “rolled into” MSRP, why did they do that now??
So IMO they should have announced $40,250 MSRP + destination charges and they would have had fewer complainers. (pretty much what Lutz said and as many expected)
Still sounds like a far better VALUE as compared to the PHEV10 Prius plug-in!!
I agree the lease deal sounds very attractive
.LB
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:00 pm)In case anybody is curious, I looked at the poll here last night asking people to guess how much the Volt msrp would be. About 400 people had voted.
95% underestimated.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:01 pm)You always seem to have the opinion that there is some all knowing “central control” brain trust that can decided when freedom is good and when it’s costing the group too much …. even in what a person is allowed to eat!?
Common sense and history tells us that if a governmental system is set up that expects everybody is an idiot then guess what you get? Just what you’d expect.
How about we start expecting people to be smart in their own decisions and be responsible for their own actions — how’d that be?
I absolutely despise the “central control” mentality.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:04 pm)flmark,
I wish to extend an apology to you for my earlier comment at 304.
Perhaps I misread your meaning.
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:23 pm)I called my Chevy dealer today to place an order and was informed that the dekaer did not have any of the ordering information from Chevrolet to allow the order to be placed. Any one else suffer the same situation?
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:26 pm)No one is saying that you can’t eat what you like. I just want it to cost more. How about paying what it actually costs to produce? That would be a decent start…
That’s fine. As long as you pay for all the costs you want to impose on everyone else. Which you clearly are not willing to do.
-5
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:46 pm)Clearly, you need to lose some weight before we can talk.
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:52 pm)If I understand correctly, 36 month lease costs $15,100. Who gets the $7500 tax credit? Will it lower the lease cost?
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:52 pm)True true and TRUE :+}
Jul 27th, 2010 (7:53 pm)That battery plant is going to make a lot of battery cells soon, I guess there’s going to be a bunch of hybrids using them.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:03 pm)Minus the delivery charge, it’s less than 10% higher than I expected. However, the price difference between buying and leasing is so great that you would almost be foolish to buy the Volt.
This is what GM wants, actually. They don’t have to honor the battery pack warranty and maintain control over the vehicle. It’s like the EV1 but people can’t say they don’t have the option to buy it!
Very smart move, for such radically different vehicle technology. So, with a lease price like that, who wouldn’t want to drive an electric car with no fear or worries about resale value?!
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:06 pm)I think I may have mentioned in the past an Ebay buy it now price for the Volt for $49,500…
At the time I thought I was exaggerating. Oh well, I do not think I will be trading in the HHR anytime soon. I just hope that GM will reduce the msrp when the production ramps up.
IF the typical Volt customer would have bought a SUV, and now buys a Volt, we will all be better off.
Cheers
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:10 pm)I have been looking forward to getting the Volt when it came out but after seeing the price I can see it is not going to be a car I can afford to buy. I am on Social Security Disablity and will not be able to get the $7500 Tax Rebate. So I guess GM Doesn’t care about selling cars to people on Social Security to help them out at all. Just think how many fixed income people out there that need cars. If a car Company came up with a Discount to help the people that fall through the cracks, just think how many carrs they may sell.
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:22 pm)Sadly you are correct!. This has been the game plan for many many years. Today with the choice of many of media options the information flow is overwhelming.
Hopefully with all of this available information folks may better learn how to separate the “wheat from the chaff”
One has to be optimistic about something.
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:22 pm)On thing that bothers me is at this price the demand will be much smaller and because of smaller demand production will not ramp up as much or as fast causing the per unit cost to be higher this in turn will keep prices higher.
We can only hope for tremendus demand anyway if we want lower prices on gen II cars.
Tom
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:23 pm)Unfortunately there was a considerable number of knee jerk reaction to the $41K price — this may be the first time in GM-Volt history that anyone has gotten that many +1s, and definitely the first the author of a post which got so many +1s has concluded it was mistaken. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha!
But yes, you’re right that a $350/month lease is a terrific deal and yes you’re right about the positioning.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:23 pm)OK, lots of comments here and I have not read them all.
So I appologize if this has already been addressed.
It Volt were available in my area, it would be very tempting to lease one at $350 per month.
I will probably save about $200 per month (net) by driving it instead of my current car.
So I could have a VOLT that does all this wonderful stuff for about $150 per month.
Very impressive!
I am pretty sure I wouldn’t do the purchase at this time though.
Gen II and other vehichle types (EREV SUV) will be more compelling to buy.
But most of the comments I have read do’nt seem to take into account the offsetting gas savings.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:26 pm)Well… the MSRP is out of my range but the lease looks like a helluva deal. Two questions: is the lease limited to 12k miles per year? And what does it cost to purchase extra miles?
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:28 pm)Lyle,
I truely hope this news doesn’t run off a bunch of your fan-base.
I have enjoyed reading their comments over the years and hope everybody continues to stick around and keep contributing. There are still many miles to go here and we are having an impact on something very big here.
Your fans are great group of people and I feel fortunate to have “met” them all on your site.
Mike in Atlanta
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:32 pm)I don’t have any experience with leases, but I’m guessing that the $350/month offer assumes best credit, and does not include state tax. Anybody know different ?
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:33 pm)The cost adder of the EREV makes it unlikely.
Maybe a nice BEV and a pull behind trailer, with a shiny new generator will be enough?
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:35 pm)I would like to think everyone here is looking for better options in transportation that saves gas.
That means the cars you have listed plus the Prius, Ford Fusion, Honda, and the new concept electric cars coming from almost every car company around the word. More miles per gallon or per charge is my goal. (fewer dollars spent) I prefer electric but until there is good enough range a Serial Hybrid Volt or other parallel Hybrid car works. :+] “When they say it not about the money… it is”
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:38 pm)Nissan is VERY committed to compete. Latest evidence is their matching the Volt warranty. Why not also beat on the lease price? No way, from the customers’ perspective, should the Volt and Leaf lease prices be the same.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:51 pm)After analyzing all this bitching… it seems to me that as soon as people saw Lyle’s GM-blue graphic with the number “$41,000″ emblazoned on it, many of them instantly thought “But the Leaf is only $25,000!”.
The thing is, the numbers floating around the Internet the past month or two quoting the Leaf’s price is typically $25,000. I’ve haven’t seen mentioning of the pre-tax credit price of $32,000 much AT ALL.
Lyle, you should have posted “$33,500″ in the blue graphic above. It’s a far more palatable price to swallow. You may have done a great disservice to the Volt’s loyal following and GM’s marketing efforts for not playing the same game as Nissan has done with their “Sunshine and roses” oft-quoted and truth-twisting price of $25,000.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:51 pm)I feel the same way. And my wife might change her mind; so we look forward to GEN 2! However, I do believe as I said earlier that we will likely see a lot of BEVs sell to owners who have two or more cars for whatever reason. They will be smaller, lighter weight, and, therefore, cheaper. BEVs will be common-place in the city. Those people who will own a BEV will just rent a regular car or an EREV like the Volt, for vacation trips, etc.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (8:54 pm)Thank you, Rashiid. I told my wife what you said, and she said, “You are pompous”, so maybe you weren’t entirely off
I found today’s discourse (everyone’s) distressing. It is my fervent hope that what brought all these folks together doesn’t get lost in this MSRP business. I have no particular devotion to GM- I saw this vehicle for what it represents. My wife and I get nowhere when we talk to family. From recycling to turning off the water when not in use, it is just so frustrating. What was unfolding today in this forum was like- the only people who get it- well, I lost them, too. As I said elsewhere, I wish GM would have indeed been a bit less alienating. Just $39,999 would have not crossed that psychological barrier that ticked off so many of their most loyal supporters. Emotions will cool; reason wil prevail. Within a few years, most here will have some sort of EV (GM or not) and we will be making a difference!
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:04 pm)I just told my roommate about the Volt price tag. The response was “For that much I can go out and by 3 Smart cars”. Of course this excludes any electrical work you have to do to your home to be able to plug the car in.
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:11 pm)Well, so much for my dream of owning a volt. The price is too far out of reach and I can’t justify paying that kind of money for a vehicle. If I were to spend that much it would be on a Cadillac. As is, I will wait for the competition to produce their EV’s and see what they have to offer. GM had a chance to really make a difference but I think they blew it.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:12 pm)Why not a Hummer, while you’re at it? Hey, the world could end tomorrow…but why are you in this forum, again? And people complain that the Volt only carries 4 people. How many in that Vette? Oh yeah, and that Vette comes in real handy when you have to go to Home Depot and pick up a dozen bags of mulch. There I go again, thinking logically. Sorry, never went through that mid life crisis thing. I am a Grandpa now- to TWO grandkids. “Sorry DJ, I can only take your sister with me today. But isn’t my car pretty cool?”
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:12 pm)It isn’t a God-given right to expect the government and corporations to subsidize new-technology products for everyone! Imagine how you would sound if you were crying the blues because you claimed that electronics manufacturers and the government are conspiring to keep you from getting a 72″ LCD TV!
You can still buy a car. Just not a brand new one. There are great affordable used cars with great fuel economy for $10,000. You are not stuck at home because you can’t afford a Volt.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:13 pm)Come now, Carcus… You never mess with a woman’s weight, even joking. And LauraM sounds pretty damn slim for that matter.
join thE REVolution
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:15 pm)It is already in there and that is why the lease price is as good as it is.
Also Nasman #490 You got it right
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:17 pm)Dude — Forget the California money. It is only good for about 750 cars total. It is not funded well at all. I suspect it will not get additional funding. It was a feel good tax break passed several years ago to spur development. I don’t think they expected all of this to really happen!
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:20 pm)Lurked for three years…
Thank you to all of you for your intelligence and input. There are a lot more like me who feed on your expertise and unsolicited opinions.
Bought a used Matrix today and a new bike. My only new car purchase will plug-in, but it’ll be a few years yet. Hopefully my kids will be energy-independent.
This car is worth it and will sell out, but my money is better spent on home improvements to get ready for my vehicle.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:22 pm)Her comment that she weighs 127 — not 126, not 128, but 127 make me think “nicely under 130.”
+6
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:22 pm)Well after reading 100 posts with complaints on the 41k, I didn’t see one that factored in the gas savings. Where I’m from, electricity is almost free and 100% clean (Quebec). This car is going to save me at least $1000 a year in gas. Over 8 years, the price becomes 33k for a full-sized family sedan with no footprint. That’s less than 5k per year, or 400 per month.
What’s the big deal? Suck it up for your kids’ sake, no?
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:23 pm)The ordering system (GM GlobalConnect) is not ready to input orders yet. I think it will be on in the next 72 hours.
-10
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:26 pm)(click to show comment)
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:27 pm)Ditto, Lyle. I think that we just went into the second inning of a nine inning game. (Literally) “Miles to go before we sleep” (ala Frost).
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
-7
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:32 pm)You’re an idiot. Don’t listen to this moron yoyo. They’re the same goons that dismiss the State credits for the Leaf just to make the Volt look like it’s more affordable. They’re just pissed because the lame Volt isn’t even AT-PZEV/PZEV and it’s a dirty polluting low MPG expensive garbage.
Go for the purchase of the Leaf, it’s much more affordable. Don’t listen to these Voltards, their the same jerks that call those who knew better “Trolls”, because the Trolls understood that the Volt will be 40K plus and will NOT get the fabled 50mpg. Now who will you listen to, the blokes who have been wrong all the time or……..
Yeah, the truths hurts. Just remember, after 40 miles in the Volt you’re back to the mpg of a Corolla.
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:34 pm)Well, the $41,000 price announcement just made the top of the Drudge Report.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:34 pm)Hmmm the fruit of my nearly five years on the unofficial waiting list appear to be:
1.) Mediocre looking car
2.) Priced in the Cadillac / Challenger / Fully-loaded Cooper range
3.) Sold to me by a company that is a wholly-owned subsidiary of my gigantic, incompetent, increasingly restrictive government
With the hopes of getting some of our money back from our taxes in the form of an election-year bribe…
I had really high and long-held hopes for this project, and GM, my life-long favorite auto company… I can’t really express my disappointment as though it was just another toy… The price being out of whack is just the last disappointment in a laundry-list of anticlimax…
Too bad…
I think better things will happen pretty soon that are worth my money and consideration…
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:35 pm)So you wanted Lyle to do the same truth-twisting, Sunshine and Roses, price quoting??
Either way he posted, it is a losing situation, so I’m glad that he posted the truth.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:38 pm)I guess that it’s now officially scandalous.
Be well and be patient,
Tagamet
/ wow, I got post #333 and #555
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:40 pm)You’ve misconstrued her point. She’s not saying that decisions should be made centrally, what she is saying is that you should pay for what you use. For example, if your well blows out and dumps a gazillion gallons of oil into the Gulf then you should pay for the damages. Or if you run your car into your neighbors house you should pay for the damages. Or if you toss pollutants into the air which causes your neighbors to contract cancer you should pay for that as well.
In the case of oil she’s just pointing out that we’re at war with the government controlled oil cartel. In this case using oil imposes costs on taxpayers, so that cost should be paid for by the oil which is the root cause of the costs.
This is well accepted Econ 101 stuff. Nothing controversial at all.
-3
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:42 pm)Go read the Capt’s post a #453.
And BTW, the published Leaf price was always “$32,780 before the credit”. Now you do the math if you can.
Remember, there are CARB states (17 of them in total) that give $5000 rebate as well and NOT for the Volt, just real EV’s that don’t use gas.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:44 pm)Thanks for reminding me what’s important.
See you all tomorrow.
Tag
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:48 pm)Dude, I know you are “lick n yircrotch”
Go read the California Tax Credit. It is 750 cars total this year ($4.1 for cars, trucks, bikes, etc). Not funded next year.
http://gas2.org/2010/03/15/californias-clean-vehicle-rebate-project-launches-today-save-5000-on-an-electric-car/
Then go back and read my posts. I have always stated price would be / should be $46-49K. This is high technology and should be valued as such. Leaf is a little putt putt that will never take off. You can buy a MiEV for $10K less than Leaf. Screw Leaf and buy MiEV if you want BEV. Now open up and say ahhhh
-3
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:52 pm)Aw dude…….lol, I like that. I’m changing my name.
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:56 pm)I go in reverse order, so I found your assessment about motivation after my post just made. Yeah, in part I am an environmentalist. But no less motivated to get the middle east out of our lives than you. When I try and motivate people toward this oil free goal, I invariably ask them if they have seen the (fictional) movie Syriana. There is a part where Matt Damon is discussing his interpretation of the opinion of most westerners about people of the middle east. He states (paraphrasing) that most feel that a hundred years ago you were all over here just cutting each others heads off and a hundred years from now, you’ll be back to doing the same.” The conclusion is that the only reason we bothered was because of the oil. I am a retired naval officer; normally you would think I would be all flag waving and such. Before we went back into Iraq (for Round 2), I told folks something I stick by to this day. If WMD was such a big deal, than why weren’t we so concerned about N Korea (much farther along the WMD path than Iraq EVER was). No oil in N Korea, of course. This stuff pollutes the environment, screws up world relations,and makes us compromise our principles. I hate it for many reasons. Let us all stick with “No Plug, No Sale”.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (9:57 pm)Your concurrence is appreciated, Don. Unfortunately, I’m afraid many more here may have had their own “knee jerk” reactions reinforced by my mistaken post #9 without noting my attempt to correct that mistake in post #490. Thanks for your endorsement of #490; I hope others will take note of it as well, especially anyone who, like me, was so initially “blinded” by the $41K MSRP that they couldn’t see the remarkable bargain the Volt $350/mo lease represents!
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:05 pm)Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Ford all offer nice, small, fuel-efficient cars that start at under $14K. And then, if you just want cheap, there’s the Chevy Aveo.
+4
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:05 pm)Like many my initial reaction was disappointment and anger.
Now that I’ve pondered it a bit, I think I understand what GM is doing. Note the very good lease terms and high purchase price.
GM is trying to capture the high profit that dealerships were attempting to get out of the Volt. Dealers normally don’t add a bunch to leases… just to purchases. By pricing the purchase so high, they will keep dealers from putting a huge markup on the car and keeping the profit themselves. If you make a lease, then they are under the GM terms so the dealer only gets their regular kickback from GM.
+5
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:11 pm)Finding a dealer now. Connecticut purchase. I’m going with the premium color. So far, so good, and finally, the Volt is here. Ready, ready, ready.
CHEVROLET VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED. Dear Middle-East %@!@ this oil addiction. Finally, America is taking it’s country back.
-6
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:14 pm)You have got to be kidding. What a RIP. That is what this car is(RIP off), and this is what will happen(Rest In Peace) when it fails. Once again GM Has missed!…….. I will be enjoying my Nissan Leaf.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:17 pm)Attn: GM Marketing Dept.
You need Morgan Freeman doing the commercial voice-overs with a slogan like:
“The 2011 Chevrolet VOLT. Green Technology of the Future, in the form of Compact Luxury Car.”
“The 2011 Chevrolet VOLT. The ‘More Intelligent’ Electric Car.”
“The 2011 Chevrolet VOLT. What a ‘Practical’ Electric Car should be.”
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:17 pm)Dave, it’s $350/month. That has to to be less than you thought it would be. I’m both surprised and depressed at how this announcement has affected people here. While the MSRP price was maybe $2K more than I expected, though after seeing everything that came standard I was thinking this might be too low, the lease price was far better than I had imagined it could be. And with such new technology a lease makes all kinds of sense.
FWIW my guess is that Gen II will be less costly in part because they’ll take the content out.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:19 pm)Game Changer?
Not at that price.
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:19 pm)A tax credit by definition is you, the taxpayer keeping your money and reducing the taxes you owe to Uncle Sam dollar for dollar.
+2
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:21 pm)I don’t know much about leases, but won’t the attractive lease cause GM to not price the GEN II much less than GEN I.
If they price the GEN II significantly lower wouldn’t it cause GM to eat more money when the lease runs up and they can’t get the residual value they are expecting.
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:23 pm)You can change your address, and you can change your name, but [you know the rest].
The one thing you cannot change, it seems, is your mind. Nothing announced today would have made the slightest difference in your outlook, yet here you are again; uselessly, to tell us all about your unchangeable opinion. You sure sound like a Troll to me.
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:23 pm)People are actually shocked at the price? Really? And it’s only going to go up. We have to wait for the follow on models (if any) to see any chance of a price drop. No car’s price ever goes down and certainly not by thousands of dollars.
The lease isn’t all that bad.
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:26 pm)Congrats!
Exciting times.
Be well and patient,
Tagamet
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:26 pm)Anyone having luck ordering, let me know. The dealer (on the GM list) seems to be hedging their talks with me. Maybe to see my willingness to pay a markup – ain’t going to do it at the price retail. I’d go with the lease if that happens. Electric engines last. Nice to avoid using Middle-East poison.
Dear Iran, Iraq, Sauds, Taliban, and all the other American haters out there, this is my turn to fire back by putting this car in my garage. Go %#@@! your religious intolerant, deplorable women’s rights, freedom hating, democracy hating selves.
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:29 pm)What a load of bunk. As expected, GM has taken advantage of the $7500 credit and superficially inflated the MSRP in order to increase their margin. The Volt was obsolete the minute the concept was unveiled and fell even further behind throughout the 2 years of R&D. Once again, a proud member of the Big 3 has proven that its innovation is slow to develop and years behind the likes of Fisker, VW, Nissan and Toyota. I have to admit, I had high hopes for this car and was ready to join the ranks but the limited design and capabilities, coupled with the laughable pricepoint has effectively driven me away. Way to go GM, keep illustrating why the auto industry in America is dying in the face of its competition.
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:32 pm)Don’t worry, Mike; the trolls will be more than happy to step in.
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:38 pm)GM set out to make a game-changing electric car.
Then, those who gave birth to this idea, and nurtured it, were purged.
Now GM has set out to make a game-changing electric car which is also a showcase for the “connected experience.”
5 years of OnStar: $1500
Gee-whiz astro-nautical control panel (who knows)?
Bluetooth, smartphone, time-shifting radio, voice recognition, and other stuff we never wanted, out the wazoo: (loads and loads, probably).
What if the Volt had been, as originally envisioned, merely a game-changing electric car? I don’t think we would have seen such a high MSRP today. I also don’t think we’ll see a reasonably-priced Voltec offering until one is made without all the cheesy gee-whiz bells and whistles. I sure hope GM gets a chance to build that car.
/Goin’ to bed all cross and junk. Tomorrow is another day …
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:48 pm)“when the lease is up in May 2010″
So…where did you park the Delorean?
Sorry, I couldn’t resist. I assume you mean May 2011. I’m glad you are shining the reality light on the Prius. A really good car but it is what it is. BTW, given today’s announcement why do you plan to purchase and not lease the Volt?
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:49 pm)People spend $350+ on leases for all kinds of cars because they like them, so I fully accept someone deciding to do so for the Volt. But I don’t understand how it can be called a “bargain.”
A fairly optimal use strategy is 40 EV miles 5 days a week, or 867 miles a month*. This will cost about $25-$30 electricity, and save about $80 in petrol compared to using a Corolla. Net fuel savings of about $50 a month. Taking on a close to $400/month bill (taxes, less than optimal credit) to save $50 does not sound like a bargain to me, at least if the word is used to mean saving money. The deal is a bit better for people who have to buy a car, or are ready to dump a guzzler, but not by much: a $14k Corolla last about 20 years, so about $68/month. Even if a perfectly good car is thrown away after 10 years, the Volt is still $200/month more in order to save less than a gallon a day of gasoline. We are talking about spending around $7.5 to save each gallon of gas.
At least, this is what my frugal side says.
*Notions of driving more than 40 miles EV/day may run into lease annual mile surcharges.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:50 pm)Funny how that heightened sense of reality so predictably takes you in the same direction every time (regardless of the day’s topic): The Toyota Prius. Are you sure you’re not john1701a’s gay lover?
You know, there are LEAF sites you and the other Prii fanbois could go pester … they’re not pro-Prius either!
-5
Jul 27th, 2010 (10:57 pm)Up until that short lame ass 40 miles then *POOF* back to your slave ways to the Sheiks and Prince for your nasty oil burning ways.
-American made – American built, Foreign power storage and Oil Dependent….YaVolt!
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:03 pm)Another nice feature of the Volt lease is that, according to the Chevy site, it includes 12K miles a year, not the 10K miles included in the Leaf lease. Or maybe 12K was needed because you can actually travel longer distances? (Only kidding only kidding — I love the Leaf). But 12K is better than I thought it would be. It’s a good reasonable number.
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:04 pm)No, but it’s what you’ll pay (plus tax, title, tag and about $5,000 to $10,000 in Additional Dealer Mark-up)…
Pushing to 6… We can make it !!!
-8
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:06 pm)Gay…..lol
You know what they say, birds of a feather….
Yup, the Trolls have been right the whole time.
Next heartbreak for you Voltards is the CS mode mpg. Not that you don’t know it already. The “Trolls” have been saying it all along. But you rosie spectacle wearing Voltards just keep living in your own world.
The real world is the Volt cost way more than you thought and burns more gas than you were lied about. But then of course there will those who claim that GM never “Promised” anything just to make the pain less.
Yeah, whatever makes your fantasy, keep thinking GM is anything more than it is, a failed company on corporate welfare feeding their pimps the Arab sheiks and prince with your money to keep you addicted to their black gold.
+3
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:10 pm)For those saying “at $41K (33K), I could buy a BMW, Mercedes, Vette, Audi..whatever”, that’s great if you like those cars, but I would actually say it in reverse. If you told me the price of your BMW, I would say “for that kind of money I could buy a Volt”. I don’t want any of those other cars. I want an EV, and it will be my only car, so BEV’s won’t work for me (yes i know this is debateable).
Maybe some of the knee-jerk responses could have been avoided if GM wouldnt have labelled the Volt a Chevy. In fact, don’t associate it with any of the brands. Just call it a GM Volt. That way there would have been no preconceptions on trim level/quality/price. It is basically in its own class anyway, so why group it with any brand?
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:12 pm)Nope…. I’d go 51-55K for the Converj; 33K for the super-appliance. Had the 10K deposit all ready. Camaro time.
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:14 pm)I must have missed it, but have any of you done a true per/month cost analysis of owning one of these vehicles? First, if what I’ve read is correct, it will cost you about $10k every 8 years to replace an environmentally unfriendly battery. Almost as certain as I’m sitting here today your state will charge a hazardous waste fee for disposal. Who knows what that will cost. Add on top of that the increase to your utility bill and I highly doubt re-charging stations will be free. Hate to burst your eco bubble, but your out of pocket expense will be well above $550 per month and you’re not being nearly as green as you’d like to think. Now you leasees have it a little easier. Your utility bills may hit you hard, but at least you can wipe your hands clean of disposing hazardous material
-2
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:23 pm)That’s Fisker price territory. Wouldn’t hold my breath on it though. I’d hold out for the Model S for that price. Longer range too, 160 miles.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/26/tesla-model-s-50-000-ev-sedan-seats-seven-300-mile-range-0-6/
+1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:28 pm)The batteries are not hazardous and are recycleable. They can also be used by power plants/whatever to store charge as after 10 years they will still be useful. You will probably be able to sell for some $ or just trade it in during the upgrade. The price of the batteries will not be 10K in 8 years. In fact its only 8K now. The price is expected to go down 50% every 4 to 5 years. Increase to my utility bill will be 64cents/day.. WOW, versus $6 in gasoline.
-1
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:31 pm)No Don. That is not what she’s saying. What you are posting in your first paragraph is essentially a Libertarian “pro tort law” point of view. (that would be my side of the argument about how wrongs get righted, not Miss Laura’s)
On your second paragraph, I don’t think it’s the”government controlled oil cartel”, it’s the “oil cartel controlled government”.
/ also, for anyone who misunderstood — my jab about Laura’s weight is meant to be taken metaphorically, not literally. (as in .. check yourself before you wreck yourself, those in glass houses …. etc..)
-4
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:31 pm)Please post a link to the announcement of the mpg rating and full range. This all sounds like plain ol speculation just like everyone was speculating the price was going to be “affordable”.
While your at it, calculate what one would get in mpg if a Volt owner forgot to charge. It is after all the best selling feature, the ability to burn oil.
-5
Jul 27th, 2010 (11:36 pm)Please post a link to the announcement of the mpg rating and full range. This all sounds like plain ol speculation just like everyone was speculating the price was going to be “affordable”.
While your at it, calculate what one would get in mpg if a Volt owner forgot to charge. It is after all the best selling feature, the ability to burn oil.
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:00 am)============================
When I am not using my vehicle anymore for business, I think that a BEV with a “real” range of 100+miles would serve me quite well for daily use. I only think I would really need more range than that maybe six times per year, and those I know about in advance.
But by real range, I mean being able to use the heater or cooling, lights, and be able to dive at highway speeds for 100 miles. Hypermiling is not a sport I want to be forced to join….. So the current ranges for BEV’s would have to become more realistic than what they are now.
As far as when Gen-2 will be available, do you really think GM will kill off the Volt with a new model in less than three years? That is exactly what would happen if they introduce a model with similar capacity for $10K less next year. Plus, those residuals everyone is talking about would come crashing down. The only real price reduction I see is when the federal rebates are exhausted. Then the price will magically drop by $7.5K. I personally think the next model will be more expensive, and be a luxury Buick.
But after today, I think my crystal ball might have a crack in it, so I may refrain from making any more predictions about GM for a while!!!
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:01 am)Approaching 600 replies on this post, and 15,000 views. Lyle, what will you do to top this?
This is totally exciting!
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:18 am)We’re probably talking about different cartels. I’m talking about the fact that the 13 largest oil companies in the world are owned by governments. Headed by Saudi Arabia, these countries and their oil companies set oil prices worldwide. I suspect you’re talking about the amount of influence yielded by oil companies here.
As far as what Laura is saying, though you are right about torts being one way of addressing externalities, you’re missing her point that Pigovian taxes are another way of addressing externalities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax Which is better just depends on what the externality is.
You see this in her response to the “cupcake” question. Not to get too tied up in cupcakes or weight (I try to avoid that subject), but she’s simply saying that a Pigovian tax could be warranted to the extent that cupcakes –> obesity –> higher medical costs paid for by taxpayers.
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:26 am)===============================
Although I agree with your analysis, there are still some outstanding issues:
Is this lease rate a teaser rate for the 2011 model year only? If it is, then it is for those first 8K units only. And today, I have some lack of faith in what GM says will be in effect for the 2012 model year. Their prior pre-release announcements have have not been too solid.
Even with the great lease rate, the chances of actually getting a 2011 Volt are slim to none. Plus, I really do have an objection to going to another state to purchase, just because GM will not sell vehicles where I happen to live. I happen to be fortunate enough to have two homes, and neither state OH or FL is in the initial release area. I don’t think that my local dealer in Ohio is all that happy with how this is being played out by GM either…..
You stated you have discussed the lease in detail. Can you let us know some of the terms – like mileage for the term of the lease, and buyout options at the end, etc?
Did you ask what effect adding the premium trim option, chrome wheels, and rear camera would have on the lease price?
What state are you driving to to get your Volt, and what kind of delivery date are you being promised?
Finally, what pricing premium is being added to the MSRP?
Thanks.
Jim
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:33 am)You guys get a 10k rebate from your government.. read the papers man.
-4
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:44 am)Cause it’s a piece of crap and they’re selling it at a loss, that’s why.
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:45 am)Number 600!!! WHOOO HOOO!!!
Jul 28th, 2010 (2:06 am)41k, Ouch. That’s going to mean it will be well over $50k in Australia as cars here are much more expensive than in the US (and we have no word on a rebate system yet).
Jul 28th, 2010 (3:38 am)Well, as Yogi once said, ” It’s de ja vu all over again!”. They could have conquered the world but they took the short sighted greedy American approach. Well, my choice now boils down to either a Prius or a Jetta TDI! Say goodby GM!
-1
Jul 28th, 2010 (4:05 am)Well, as Yogi once said, “It’s De Ja Vu,” all over again! So who killed the Electric car? It’s too bad that GM took the short sighted, greedy American view. My choice now boils down to either a Prius or a Jetta TDI. Say good by GM! Premium gas!!!!! Give me a break!
Jul 28th, 2010 (4:28 am)Boo hoo hoo. GM is selling this to make a profit. The days of selling cars at a loss and hoping to make it up on volume are over – you all may have missed it but the taxpayers own this company and we expect it to make money. On the other hand, from all the beemers and escalades I see on the street I think there are lots of folks that spend this much and more on their rides. I certainly don’t compare this to the Honda civic that is so much cheaper, they aren’t remotely the same car. I’m not sure when I’ll be in line to buy one of these but I’d much much rather see GM makes some money on this so they can continue the development. The lease price is very doable, I wonder what the terms are in months and miles. My two cents
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (4:53 am)The Volt will cost $29,999 after Federal tax credit. The MSRP being $37,499 for the feature rich base model. Premium options, such as leather seats and door accents, brings the price to $39,999.
Why wasn’t this the announcement? If for no other reason to snatch market share from Japan. The Volt is really the only reason for consumers to jump ship from the Camrys and Accords of the world to a Chevrolet. 50,000 hands were raised. Possibly half of these currently own 4 cylinder Japanese cars.
Will continue to follow the Volt and other EV. Best wishes to the hard working engineers at GM. You did good. And presented the pre-production Volt well. Trying to let this go. But it’s tough.
=D-Volt
Jul 28th, 2010 (5:29 am)Ditto. It’ll take time for us to process all this (on a lot of levels). If GM actually intends to continue to support and advance the platform (seems likely at least in the short run) it’s a step in the right direction. If not, well, then the critics have been right. Time will tell.
Be well and patient,
Tagamet
Jul 28th, 2010 (5:41 am)No other car has a T battery. The 2013 Volt featuring a 40 mile range T battery will cost no more than the 2011 does today. We don’t live in a vacuum. Batteries will be advancing as well as the menu of offerings from the competition. I see the price going down 10% – 15% by 2013.
=D-Volt
+2
Jul 28th, 2010 (5:44 am)All of which still begs the question of govt’s insertion/control – “they” still determine “benefit” or neg consequence, and the belief that they know what’s best for the people that they govern. At best this may have had some relevance a very long time ago when the general populace elected more “educated and informed” representatives, who were actually in office to serve the people, and not as a career. In recent history (last half century) certainly, “representatives” represent their own interests. JMO. Back to the Volt issues (on which we have some hope of agreement).
Be well and patient,
Tagamet
Jul 28th, 2010 (5:52 am)With the rate at which technology is advancing, the price drops may well be greater and arrive more quickly – especially after the Volt is on the road and people spread the good news about the experience. If the Leaf performs well and other mfgs sign on, the competition for the EV consumer will kick the whole field into high gear (even without the actual gears).
Be well and patient,
Tagamet
Jul 28th, 2010 (6:12 am)I’ve been mulling this over for the past 12 hours and can honestly say I’m still not happy with it but can understand it. Unfortunately, the out the door price is more than I can justify at this point. I’ve never considered leasing a vehicle but just might. I’ve paid cash for the last three cars I’ve purchased and was hoping to not have a monthly payment this time also. The wife commented that the monthly lease cost was much lower than expected. One the face of it you can lease the Volt for about the same monthly cost as the Leaf. I didn’t expect that. I guess the good thing is that we’re in Houston and our dealer indicated that they won’t even be thinking about taking orders until next spring. Maybe by that time the competition picture will be a little clearer. For us this was as case of I want an EV but my current vehicles will last a couple years longer. Lease a Volt for the same monthly cost as a Leaf. When you look at it that way the Volt is a way better deal. I wonder if that will sway anyone that was thinking of leasing a Leaf to change camps?
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (6:14 am)+1000
It absolutely should have been.
The old guard is still alive and well – preferring to manipulate the market rather than slamming one home against the competition.
-1
Jul 28th, 2010 (6:17 am)VIVA LA LEAF
Nissan is doing things just right, and soon I will be done right when I pick up my Leaf this winter!!
———-
Nissan LEAF Update
Thanks for reserving your 100% electric Nissan LEAF™. We just wanted to let you know that orders will begin in your area in fall or winter 2011.
We’ll send you an e-mail when it’s time to work with a dealer to pick your car’s color, review options and get a quote.
As you can imagine, the response for the Nissan LEAF has been tremendous. The Nissan LEAF order period will be staggered by state, and the timing of your reservation will hold your place.
As a result, orders from states with an infrastructure to support electric driving – either in place or planned – will be taken first. But no matter where you live, you’ll be among the first in your area to get a LEAF.
For more information available to Nissan LEAF reservation holders, please click here.
See updates
=================================================
Your reservation info:
Reserved on: 4/20/2010
Jul 28th, 2010 (6:23 am)Buuhhh, I had hoped for 29K post rebate
That would have made it a guaranteed success
Jul 28th, 2010 (6:42 am)So, I guess this means the CS mode mpg must have tested out really good.
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (7:05 am)$39,999 would have sounded a lot better from a psychological and marketing standpoint. $1,000 difference for the 10,000 cars would have been $10 million of profit not made by GM. Sure, that’s a lot of money to you and I, but GM spends well over $1 billion annually just on advertising… and $10 million is nothing compared to the taxpayer bailout that GM received. It seems to me that the $10 million could have been easily recouped and it would have gone over quite a bit better with the buying public.
Jul 28th, 2010 (7:41 am)Congrats! I hope you enjoy it.
Be well and patient,
Tagamet
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (8:05 am)Dear GM,
Why couldn’t you price the Volt at 37,995 and just did 1 year of On-Star. I have on-star on my Equinox and I have no use for it, it’s a waist of money as far as I’m concerned. MAKE ON-STAR AN OPTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND REDUCE THE PRICE!!!!!!
Jul 28th, 2010 (8:18 am)It seems to me that GM is hedging their bets on the Volt by pricing high and leasing low. If they strongly believed in the Volt and the market for it, they’d price high and lease high. Instead, they lease low. Why? Remember that the Volt will have an 8year/100,000 mile warranty. It appears that someone in GM fears that when the Volt is placed in the hands of normal drivers under a wide range of conditions, the Volt will turn into a money pit after a couple years on the road. Frankly, this would scare me as well. The cost to replace all those new parts could be enormous, especially if GM has started making Gen2s and is no longer making Gen1 parts.
The easiest and lowest risk alternative for GM would be to take most of the Gen1 Volts off the road in three years to avoid the problems that might surface in 5-6 years. It will be cheaper to crush the Gen1 Volts than to keep them running on what will be outdated technology in three years, especially if GM can offer lease-holders a Gen2 Volt and make a small profit on the Gen2s in the process. Some posters have pointed out that this can’t happen because of the option to buy at the end of the lease, but for the buy option to be attractive, the residual value of the vehicle needs to be higher than the buy option. If most buyers could buy a brand new Volt Gen2, Leaf, Toyota, Ford Fusion, etc for about $29k in 2013 at the end of the lease, why on earth would they buy a three year old Gen1 Volt instead?
GM, I’m sure you’re reading this post. You need to counter the premise set up in this post or else you’re going to lose a lot of loyal Volt followers as the rest of the readers on this forum start to figure this out. Good luck; I’m pulling for EVs in all forms.
Jul 28th, 2010 (8:38 am)My Comment continued. Or better yet, make it $37,495, so the price after the tax break is $29,995. You have to remember you are selling a CHEVY, not a Buick or a Cadillac. Chevy is suppose to be made for us lower middle class people were money is very tight, we are really tired of you putting all these extras into the car that we don’t need! MAKE EVEN ONE YEAR OF ON-STAR AN EXTRA AS WELL AS AUTO TIRE GAUGE AND MANY OTHER THINGS THAT A CAR REALLY DOES NOT NEED!!! We lower middle class want to be GREEN too, but it’s too expensive to be green for us. MAKE IT AFFORDABLE FOR US! PLEASE!
Thank You,
Jeff
Jul 28th, 2010 (8:53 am)lol @ Jeff….. obviously you don’t know that people are out there that are willing to pay much more than MSRP for the car. If you’re complaining about pricing so much and money, just wait until next year when they produce several times as many and significantly reduce the price.
My question….. I thought on this website here there was a post saying that there won’t be a 7,500$ tax credit because it doesn’t meet some California thing or something…..
Jul 28th, 2010 (9:47 am)==========================
The $7500 is a federal tax credit. That one is assured for the first 250,000 cars sold by each manufacturer.
The CA rebate is for a much smaller amount and is only for less than 1000 cars, GM decided not to worry about that one for the Gen-1 Volt.
Jul 28th, 2010 (10:48 am)Getting email updates from kyle for the last couple of years to inform the gen public,has kept me current until now on the developments of the chev Volt. Thank you Kyle
GM has a good product in the Chev volt, But they forgot one key ingredient.
The Masses were not Bail out by the Gov, thus high unemployment,and reduced hours and reduced Hourly pay Will market many out of their ATTRACTIVE $350 Lease price as many will not Qualify due to their credit history.
41K is a pipedream as many dealers will jack up the price. This is a 50K Car, With the tax credit you will pay 41K +.
GM need to come up with a lower price EV,Soon or foreign car builders will eat them Alive in the EV Market.
To illustrate my Reasoning India makes an ipad for $35
Jul 28th, 2010 (10:56 am)I’ve just been priced out of this car. Too bad. I’ll have to go elsewhere.
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:16 pm)Yeah.
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:51 pm)Umm…people who like to own things they pay for.
Jul 28th, 2010 (12:52 pm)I’m not impressed. In fact I find the whole mess now very poor on GM’s part. Not only is the car way over-priced, they are limiting the market where it will be sold! Seems only a handful of states will even get the car for dealerships. What’s up with that?
They should have kept the On-Star and other B.S. out of the vehicle and sold a rock bottom version, for which they would advertise. That version I’m sure would have been under $30,000.
Sorry GM, once again you blew it on an electric vehicle.
Jul 28th, 2010 (1:52 pm)Well, I have been trying for a whole day now to order a Volt, and as it turns out. Apparently, even though GM said you could order a Volt now, you can’t.
Maybe I’m missing something but, every dealer I’ve called wants to take $500 to $1000 from me to have me sit on their internal dealer wait list.
As far as I’m concerned, I’m not going to pay any dealer until I am told that I have an order number from GM, and that I’m entered into their system to have a car manufactured. Why should I.
Am I the only one who feels this way>?
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (2:25 pm)Keep in mind the 4 door Tesla will be much more of a car and only $50,000. I see far more folks waiting to get this nicer Tesla over a smaller less of a buy, $41K car.
Jul 28th, 2010 (2:28 pm)NO!!! I’d wouldn’t go from looking at a Mercedes, Lexus or BWM above to a 20K electric malibu.
-2
Jul 28th, 2010 (2:33 pm)You’d wish me onto another site? That’s not very charitable, now, is it?
Besides, there’s less to criticize w.r.t. the Leaf. It’s priced right, holds a nominal 5, is beating the Volt to market and is being developed by a company that doesn’t have a barge load of more urgent investment priorities. GM has no business bringing out non-profitable products.
I’ve said it before… I’m a big fan of what works. The Prius works admirably well and has been reducing oil usel for a decade. That gets a lot of respect from me. At the same time that Toyota developed the vehicle, GM was cashing large government checks for the PNGV program. What came from that? Exactly nothing. It doesn’t even look like they retained the expertise of the EV1 or PNGV programs long enough to get those people to help out on the Volt program.
Jul 28th, 2010 (3:15 pm)So my volt has been ordered. Does anyone know when Michigan will get their volts. I am hearing conflicting answers on this…..one answer is michigan doesnt get their volts until march 2011 after cali, dc, and ny get them first. The other answer i’ve heard is orders from all launch markets will be fulfilled in the order in which they were received. Anyone know the full true story?
Jul 28th, 2010 (3:54 pm)what “jklassen12″ was saying is everyone else will be paying for your tax credit. It’s not free money or your money being returned to you.
Jul 28th, 2010 (4:20 pm)GM released the ordering information last Saturday, July 24th, to dealers. We placed our first 3 SOLD orders that day and provided our customers with the GM assigned order numbers. Each customer chose their options and colors. At that time, they did not know the price, but as of today they do. Each has confirmed they still want their VOLT.
We have 25+ more customers who have expressed interest in the VOLT and have been keeping them updated as information has come out. I suspect that within the week we will have committments from enough customers to sell out our allocation of 7 VOLTS. After those are spoken for, we will continue to take orders on a ‘will try’ basis…. or for delivery later next year. The initial allocation covers production through June 2011. We will get more from July – December 2011. There will clearly be some knowledge gaps from dealer to dealer as some have stayed up on the development of the VOLT and some are just waking up to it. Keep looking…
Jul 28th, 2010 (5:04 pm)Well, if you look at it from a purely financial standpoint, the worst is I spend $15k on a car I only get to use for 3 years. That’s $5k/year for the ‘purchase’ price.
My current cars purchase price all work out to be:
1986 FX16: $291/year
1996 Eclipse GSX: $1357/year
2001 Subaru WRX: $2400/year
2005 Accord Hybrid: $5166/year
I don’t want to spend $5000/year on my cars. I want to spend $1500/year on my cars.
I’ll probably jettison the FX16 and the Eclipse when I buy a Volt. I have not nearly amortized enough out of the other ones, yet!
But worse than that, I have a far stronger emotional attachment to the cars I drive. Frankly, I’ve kept the FX16 this long not for financial reasons, but almost exclusively because it’s such a hoot to drive. There’s absolutely nothing like the driving experience of tossing around a 2000lb car with a short wheelbase.
(It also gets 30mpg. In the city. Driving it like I’m stealing it.) And I expect to feel the same kind of way about driving an electric vehicle, (even though I really wanted something with greater acceleration). Still, you asked what is the worst that could happen and to me the worst is that somebody else informs me that my driving time is up and then takes that away. THAT is worse than anything in my book of driving. That and having to conform to somebody’s actuarial book of how many miles I can and can’t drive.
I think part of the freedom of the range extender is lost when you lease, isn’t it? I mean the freedom to hop in your car and drive to Alaska or whatever. You will be punished on your lease if you do that. I don’t want that kind of restriction. That’s the whole point of the Volt, anyway.
I just don’t see the lease. It’s not really cheaper… It’s $5k per year. If you bought the car and sold it after 3 years, it ought to be no more expensive than the lease because the lease includes those calculations built in. And you still have to find yourself another car. Leasing is a $5k/year expense train you can’t ever get off of because you can’t hold the car longer to lower your average ‘purchase’ price.
So, look at it the other way… What do you REALLY get from the lease? I just don’t see it providing anything that useful to anybody but the company providing the lease.
Jul 28th, 2010 (6:08 pm)Yes I am dissapointed to say the least. Nissan gets it and they are offering the Leaf. So for all the hype after 40 miles in the Volt you’re just driving a car. But with the Leaf it’s fully electric, goes 100 miles on one charge and almost 10K dollars less. Some things never change.
+1
Jul 28th, 2010 (6:27 pm)I am slightly dissapointed in GM for this one. They seem to have priced the low income families out of this vehicle, the families that would need this the most. 41,000 may not seem like much to the middle or upper class but the lower income families will continue to strugle. Great Idea GM but we will not be able to afford the Volt. I guess the lower income families will need to look elsewhere.
kerryn57
Jul 28th, 2010 (8:28 pm)OK… so the price was a bit (a lot?) higher than you wanted / expected. If you factor in the development costs, the price is still a bargain. How many $ billions did GM spend for research, testing and production-line setup to get this car to market? There is no way they are going to recoup those costs until (at least) several hundred thousand Volts have been sold.
They will sell their entire production run for the next two / three years almost regardless of the price. There are some buyers who really don’t care much what the price is. Tesla has a waiting list for their cars that are priced over 100K each.
I currently own two vehicles , a ’93’ Ecoline van and a ‘87’ Chevy sedan. I haven’t spent much on car ownership for many years. The money I did not spend will go to pay for the Volt. I’m not rich, I just don’t spend money unless I really need to.
To me, this car is worth its price.
The Volt is a vehicle with two sources of fuel. I like that. I remember the gasoline shortage of ’73-74. If in the future, gasoline suddenly ( it always happens suddenly) becomes hard to find, I will have a second source of fuel (electricity) which, if necessary, I can make myself.
My “back-of-envelope” calculation, based on my driving patterns now….In the first 100k miles, 80k miles will be powered by electricity from my house, 20k will be by gasoline.
My question for the dealer is not, how much?….it is, how soon?
Don’t care about color or options. I will take whatever Volt the dealer can get.
Now!
Jul 28th, 2010 (8:54 pm)Once again, an American auto company has a great idea and prices themselves right out of the market! Like everyone else is saying, GM isn’t seeing the big picture. (Long Term Advantage) You have Toyota, Nissan and Honda hot on their (GM) tail, and they’re going to get masacred on the market because of price. Realistically, the price needed to be around the $30k mark to make it competitive on the existing mkt with the hybrid cars. I have been tracking and waiting for the Volt to come out, but at $41k, I guess I’ll wait for the other guys, to see how their pricing compares! Sorry GM, but you’ve lost me on this one. Also, the lease is too attractive, almost as if GM wants everyone to lease, not purchase. Could this be another EV1 deal, where they pull the car off the streets in 3 years? Hope not.
Jul 28th, 2010 (10:44 pm)I know this is late, but, actually my tax was based on a)corn subsidies, b)water pollution (agriculture is exempt from the clean water act), c) energy use (same reasons as the gasoline tax), and d) the widespread use of cheap underpaid immigrant labor. All of which represents a cost to the wider society.
The health issues are just a benefit I threw in.
Jul 29th, 2010 (12:07 am)This is B.S. They expect us to spend 45 grand or more, with options. In L.A. the sales tax is 10% which means $4500 or more, which brings it up to 50 grand. I don’t thnk so. My wife loves her Malibu hybrid, that we inly paid $21,940 for and only pay about $120 a month for gas. Besides, registration fees in CA are probably going to be over a grand as well. I think GM A**ed themselves out once again. I wonder who is making these decisions, and it seems that 12 other gutless idiots sat around the table and agreed that it was a good idea. As well for 50g i can buy 3 Fiat 500s. That equals one per family member. At 50mpg the fuel costs would be less than the electric bill, as Southern California Edison as also lost their freakin minds,(or maybe GM and SCE are in bed together).
Jul 29th, 2010 (8:34 am)Well, GM finally came out with a great idea, but they priced out about 50% of the people who would have bought one. Initial estimates were in the mid 30′s. I understand that they are trying to make it more attractive by offering some mediocre “luxury” features, but it doesn’t come close to a luxury car. It’s attractive enough as an electric car. My suggestion would be to come out with a no-frills or below-base version for those consumers who want the car for what it is and don’t need all the fluff. I have a cell phone – why do I need 5 years of OnStar?
-1
Jul 29th, 2010 (1:24 pm)I called the dealership and they said they were putting a $20k markup on the vehicle, they also said all the dealerships are doing it.
GFY dealerships…
Jul 29th, 2010 (5:00 pm)GM might think: hmmm, we see they have been drooling, why don’t we make money out of the Volt instead selling it as a loss!
Nothing’s wrong with that for the moment and tomorrow will tell.
I will keep drooling until the price goes under 30K.
I am a working class person and I don’t have any extra money to burn.
Jul 29th, 2010 (5:00 pm)Where’s that at? I haven’t been highly motivated to call around the Silicon Valley dealers yet but that’s exactly the kind of thing I expect. They wanted at least $10k over list for my ($24k MSRP) WRX (the Steven’s creek dealer was actually auctioning them to the highest bidder) back when it released and it had a heck of a lot more production expected than the Volt does.
Gm underpriced this car, apparently. They should take a lesson from Steve Jobs and the original Iphone launch. Just go ahead and charge whatever you can, reduce the price later and give a store credit to the people that complain about it.
Jul 30th, 2010 (11:57 am)The three dealerships I called in Michigan were all charging MSRP and they backed this up as I have order in hand at MSRP. I’ve had a hard time finding and gouging going on in MI. Yet we (MI) have to wait until Mar 2011….dont get it.
Jul 30th, 2010 (8:35 pm)“Taking the $7500 tax credit into account the net cost to the buyer will thus be $33,500″.
And if I I pay less than $7500 do I get a refund?
Jul 31st, 2010 (8:36 pm)So very disappointed after all this time. This is not a price for the average American! I was so hoping for less than 30K after the tax credit! And I can’t imagine the 2nd or 3rd generation will decrease in price. Now I seriously have to check other options now!
Aug 1st, 2010 (4:43 am)The price is too high.
I’ll keep driving my Nissan Titan at 17MPG, at 100,000 more miles at $4 a gallon, it will only cost me $23,000 in fuel and I have 305 horses.
GM can sit in spin. So much for my next vehicle will be a volt magnet I have. Remove me from the list of want to buy buyers.
The Leaf looks better for the price.
sigh.
Aug 7th, 2010 (10:34 am)I’m going with the leaf now. How come the leaf can sell much cheaper than the Volt. I wanted an American car, but they lost me on the pricing. Yes, it matters. GM never changed from its pre bankruptcy days. They just don’t get it.