A lot of thought went into the paddle shifter found in the Chevrolet Volt.
Lead interior designer Tim Grieg noted back in 2008 when the car was first unveiled that because the car has no transmission and is purely electric, it gave designers the opportunity to “re-invent the shifter.”
The group chose to go with a large flush-mounted paddle placed very forward and actually within the center stack. The unusual forward position gives extra room along the top of the center console for such things as the cupholders.
Indeed over the years since the unveiling many people have commented about the shifter, though often finding it too large for their taste.
GM has apparently been listening and adapting.
An astute GM-Volt reader named ‘baltimore17′ discovered that in the latest Volt prototype in red photo, the shifter appears to be thinner.
It turns out he was correct.
According to director of Voltec design Bob Boniface, the design has been changed.
“The shifter design has changed a bit during development in order to provide more thumb clearance for the user’s hand,” he said. Putting it more bluntly, Volt vehicle line director Tony Psawzt said “it’s thinner to avoid any thumb pinching.”
Boniface explains how the decision was made and how GM feels about it.
“It was something that we, along with our HMI engineers, felt would be the most comfortable solution for the customer,” he said. “It still looks very modern but it is now a more
pleasent experience to use.”
This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 21st, 2010 at 6:17 am and is filed under Design, Interior. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+25
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:23 am)I like the new one better.
Although I would prefer buttons.
+16
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:34 am)Even though I dont see a problem with the “old” shifter…..I applaud GM for ferreting out even the smallest and most unlikely of issues. This attention to detail bodes well for the rest of the automobile. It is becoming more and more apparent that the Volt is going to be a BLOCKBUSTER.
+13
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:39 am)I really don’t care one way or the other.
I kind of liked the original flush one a little better since it was quite different from a real shifter, but, either is fine. Even buttons would work.
My grandmother had a button shifter. I think it was a Plymouth. Kind of a pain since it was mechanical. The buttons were hard to push.
Quit changing things and get one of these cars in my Chevy dealer. I can’t buy it if it’s not there.
+3
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:39 am)Thought the tech part of the Volt was already locked in. GM mentioned that the final tweak before sending the 2011 Volt to the production line is texturing. The center control panel colors (so far) are gray or white. I’m sure we’ll see at least 2 other available flavors. The slim shift lever looks good.
Wonder if GM has considered the D position being all the way forward? With P being all the way back to automatically set the parking brake.
=D-Volt
+4
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:41 am)I understand that GM wanted to keep the shifter “normal”, so the car would not be seen as too futuristic.
But since it really isn’t necessary, I think making it part of the touch pad console, or even part of the touch screen would have been really cool…….
But all I really want is to be able to buy a Volt in Ohio!!!!
NPNS
+4
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:46 am)Do they really call it a paddle shifter?
The new Corvettes with auto transmission have paddle shifters, but these are levers or “paddles” behind the steering wheel that let you shift gears in a simulated manual transmission mode.
I believe these actually originated in Formula 1 racing (only not auto transmissions).
As far as the Volt’s shifter, I think either design is fine. However, if I had a choice I would want just a small handle, maybe the size of a aircraft joystick. It would look cool, but be fuctional when you wanted to make the quick change to “L” in city traffic.
+6
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:47 am)Maybe the Volt team really is reading gm-volt’s forums:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4412
Visually and in concept, I liked the earlier design. Functionally, I like the narrow design.
+4
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:49 am)It just takes up valuable real estate on the console for no reason.. all the BEVs should just go to push buttons.. it must be a law that requires a conventional paddle shifter.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:49 am)I simply thought that for a car that had no gears what is this huge thing for? And then it seemed like it was easy to get your hand caught between it and the cavity it moved into. As Rashiid said, why not a few push buttons? But this should be good. Best not to change any more. Actually, I am curious – the roof — is it solid, is there a moon roof, is it translucent, or is it solid. It looks like it is solid, but with glass covering most of it. I sat in the Volt once for a minute and did not quite think to take that in. Anybody remember/
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:51 am)Good call back in February.
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:51 am)I liked the original better because it looks like the throttle on a jet… you punch it forward and it’s time to rock and roll. The new one looks like a faucet handle, or maybe the flusher on one of those high-tech Japanese toilets.
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:52 am)Jim, I have a deposit on a Volt in Ohio that I need to get out of (because I also have one at a Michigan dealer).
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:52 am)It’s solid, no glass, no solar panel, no moon roof.
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:55 am)In the car in NYC, I really liked the “old” shifter. It seemed different at the first moment, but then it was natural and easy to grasp. But no doubt the new one is fine also, and as there is less to it, it is probably a dollar or two cheaper to make.
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:55 am)I think as time goes on, many of the unusual features on the console will give way to more normal controls and instrumentation.
For example, many people can’t stand a digital speedometer. That can be a deal-breaker right there. Wouldn’t it be easy to have a configuration for an analog speedometer on the driver’s LCD?
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:01 am)Hey, Thanks for the shifter change heads-up, Baltimore17
+5
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:07 am)I like the one that doesn’t cause pain.
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:14 am)I seem to recall GM saying you could switch to analog.
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:14 am)I agree.
The old one was like part of the “big shift control of moving the car” just like a jet, locomotive, etc. A perception thing.
But I like the practical aspect of why Chevy changed the design to make the sifter easier to use and moved forward for more console space.
If the engineers keep refining the car like this i.e. small details…
I do believe this car will be FUN to drive!
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:15 am)I like the old wide shifter, or just buttons. Might as well make it a little different than the other cars on the road. I dont think it would be a deal breaker for sales.
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:16 am)Jim I, I’m afraid to ask. How much of a deposit did you put down?
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:38 am)Right. Pink with yellow polka dots, or white with purple flowers that keep shifting.
Oh tay, I’m done.
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:44 am)Hi JohnK,
Would you be willing and kind enough to share the name of this Michigan dealer with the rest of us? Did they promise to sell you the car at MSRP? Details please.
112 Days and counting!
NPNS!
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:53 am)I would guess this was actually changed while putting the Ampera through European safety certifications. CE has all sorts of “pinch point” regulations for consumer and industrial products.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:54 am)I’m not going to get hung up on this much. They both looked OK to me, but I would still prefer some button/lever system as opposed to a conventional shifter. There really is no need for it, and it just takes up room. I’m sure they could have come up with something really cool to replace this no-longer-needed appendage.
+3
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:01 am)ATTN TIM GRIEG: I voted for the new slimmer shifter —and I’d sure like to have the option for a leather shifter. On long trips I find it relaxes my right arm to rest my elbow on the center console’s rear lid with my right hand on the shifter (when in Drive). This of course means the console-to-shifter spacing has to be right. And I really like the soft, cool feel of a leather shifter vs hot/cold plastic, as well as the fact it complements a leather steering wheel in styling terms.
And while we’re looking at the center console, I’m concerned that its visibility be improved as much as possible. So I’d like to suggest that it employ a concealed panel of very bright LEDs for backlighting (as used in the latest computer monitors) —and LARGE BOLD lettering and icons/symbols with the backlighting LED color chosen to achieve maximum visibility in full sunlight (extremely intense blue?). Obviously, the LEDs should be dimmer and/or a different color for best visibility at night.
+3
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:06 am)The first one seemed overly ridiculous for what is simply a computer input.
I think the designer must have gotten his cues from the US Navy throttles on modern destroyers / cruisers.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:12 am)Right on. I’m worried that in a bright day at the beach, the screens will become invisible.
+3
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:15 am)Actually, I didn’t have any trouble seeing both 7″ LCD screens when I drove a Volt in daylight —but the letters/symbols identifying the numerous capacitive touch controls below the center console screen were VERY had to see at a glance while driving. I even worry they’ll be UNSAFE compared to the large knobs & pushbuttons used as driver’s controls on today’s cars.
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:22 am)Does anybody know a good link to the Ford Focus Electric vehicle .
It seems that Ford and Magna have put together a competer that
is worthy of buying ‘ without the bother of using gasoline .
Does anybody know a good site ?
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:23 am)Score one for Prius with their neat little shifter knob. Loved it on the 2010 Prius I rented recently. It looks 500 % better also.
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:24 am)+1 for very good points!
I’ll add that they should be able to dim WAY down for night driving. If you get out in the mountain west during a no moon night, it gets very dark. If you’ve never been out there, you just have no idea what dark really is. The screens must be able to dim down or they’ll cause eye strain because they’ll be the brightest thing in the field of view.
On my GPS, the night mode includes the option to shift all colors to black, dark blue and a little less dark blue. With the lowest backlight intensity setting, it is illegible under normal room lighting. It was too intense when driving US 95 at night.
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:25 am)It looks like there were already finger notches at the top of the shifter. You would have to have your hand around the neck to pinch them, if you had really skinny fingers in the first place. I think I like having the shifter. Buttons would be hard to get used to for a lot of people. I’m in my mid 20′s but even I don’t know if I’d like driving it with buttons (ironically I remember asking my dad when I was a kid why they need a shifter and why they couldn’t just use buttons). And whatever you do, DO NOT put touch screen buttons for shifting. I am already worried people won’t like using the touchpad buttons on the console. I have a Nexus One that has a virtual button for home, back, menu, and search and I would much rather have physical buttons that can be physically pressed.
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:29 am)For the old design, pulling would be easy. I think it’s the pushing it back in that might have caused a problem with pinched fingers
+7
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:34 am)I say don’t (score one). The Prius shifter doesn’t retain position. If you want to select neutral when moving, you must move and hold it there for three seconds. Since the Prius doesn’t have a keyswitch either, there is no control that you can simply move to a spot that will kill power.
Even if all of these unintended acceleration stories turn out to be driver error, a lack of any form of positive shut off of the powertrain gives them ammunition.
Ideally the shifter should include a mechanical switch that uses only hardware to block gate drive on the power transistors. Then when in neutral it is impossible for software to make the car move.
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:40 am)If it is a ford.. try the ford site…. http://www.fordvehicles.com and if a VOLT site http://www.Chevrolet.com/Volt They seem to work for me.
I put the VOLT one on because you just might decide to came back. You already know about this site. :+]
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:40 am)So does GM. Sometimes its a b!tch building equipment for them.
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:44 am)deleted
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:52 am)It has to be mechanical switches.. and big and in row like they did back in the 60s.. when you press one it depresses about 1/2″ and stays down.. if you press another one then the first one pops back up. They probably should be in a vertical row and by law (I think) you need P, R, N, D and L
+3
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:54 am)Buff Whelan Chevrolet
40445 Van Dyke Ave
Sterling Heights Michigan 48313
888 280-9309
at MSRP
Their allocation is 6 and I am number 3
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:58 am)While I liked the look of the old shifter better, the pinched or bashed thumbs would have been annoying. I guess that this was changed for a good reason.
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:09 am)How about voice activated shifting? “DRIVE” “REVERSE” “PARK”
(j/k)
+5
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:23 am)Have to agree – the paddle was just plain ugly. The shifter is MUCH better. Now if GM can overcome the Volt’s biggest problem – availability.
I really wish GM would simply allow pre-orders. This is one thing Nissan is doing right that GM is going wrong. No worries – if your pre-order is approved, you’re guaranteed to get a Volt. GM is stressing me out. Stop it. STOP IT!
Just let me preorder a Volt, for crying out loud! Wake up, GM, or I’ll sue for post-traumatic Volt disorder.
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:26 am)No red or green on the dash for us color blind drivers. Many men can not see red or green on a screen.
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:28 am)Some screens become invisible when you have on polarized sun glasses.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:31 am)I guess I’m just not really sure why they even need a shifter at all. Maybe for consumer familiarity? It seems weird to stick what looks like a conventional shifter in a hole like that. Oh well. Small detail that really doesn’t affect the car. I’m fine with either.
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:40 am)Might be fun if your not the driver. I can see it now when your setting at a light just work the word “park” into the conversation. When the light changes the driver tries to go but nothing happens. Or “reverse” and he hits the car behind him when he tries to take off from the light. great fun. ;>)
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:43 am)What’s on the bottom right of the center console? Is that the cigarette lighter/12V power port? Where the Aux in line for an Ipod? USB ports?
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:46 am)Wow they know there allocation. Chriswell here in MD didn’t know their allocation and would not agree to MSRP. They said it depends on their allocation. To quote the Manager “if I get 5 for the first year I am going to mark the hell out of them.”
+7
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:47 am)Smart move on GM’s part. They avoided multiple law suits.
“In the case involving Jane Clutzmeyer VS. General Motors Chevrolet Motor Division, hence forth known as G.M. , the court finds G.M. was negligent in its design of the shifter mechanism used in Clutzmeyers vehicle, a Chevrolet Volt produced by G.M.. This negligent design caused Clutzmeyer’s pinky finger and thumb to be injured when she tried to put her car in park after she pulled into her parking garage at work. The court finds that mitigating circumstances brought fourth by the defendant including Clutzmeyer’s attempting to steer her vehicle while texting her boyfriend, husband, and lesbian lover simultaneously has no bearing. The court awards Clutzmeyer damages in the amount of 10 million dollars. His honor, Judge Sidney Polesmoker, San Fransisco 7th District Court Of Appeals, presiding.”
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:48 am)I think the smaller shifter is the better idea. When I saw the first one I knew sooner or later I’ll get my hand pinch in that thing, good move. I don’t know if it’s just me but the toggle switch’s for tune and volume in the center stack seem to have a larger center diameter then the old design. Probably easier to grab I would imagine.
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:49 am)Yeah. Too bad ya can’t shift into neutral when the throttle sticks.
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:54 am)From the “New” photo, what is that lever behind the steering wheel? Does it control high/low beam or what? If so, I like it being separated from the turn signal and wiper controls.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:55 am)I’m wondering if I am the squeekie wheel that got the grease on this one… I’ve mentioned several times that the original design wins the award for the ‘world’s largest shifter’ that is totally unnecessary on a car that is electric.
When there was a post here about a Prius, I mentioned that the first time I ever drove one was when we received a used one and I was moving it to take photos for our website. It had a teenie-tiny cube attached to a joystick the size of a number 2 pencil coming out of the dash. That was the shifter. This was a stark contrast to huge shifter on the VOLT that was shaped like one of those headless busts you see in the department store jewelry department where they would hang a long necklace. (is that too descriptive…? Sorry.)
Anyway, I don’t recall anyone else here complaining about shifter size, so if it was not me, then it had to be all of the people who took test drives… and they must have said as they reached for the shifter: “Oh! That’s weird!” — I guess when enough people say that to an engineer they start to listen.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:01 am)The 2010 Chevrolet’s have wiper controls on the right stalk, turn signals and “Driver Info Center” and High Beam controls on left stalk. Audio and Cruise Controls on steering wheel.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:03 am)I’m with you on this one. If my memory serves me well, buttons were mentioned by several a couple years ago.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:07 am)Switch on bottom right is “Electronic Parking Brake”. (P) It looks just like the system used on the Premium Subaru models. You press your foot on the brake, then pull out on the switch to disengage. Or, press foot on brake and press in to engage. Simple.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:11 am)Does Obamacare cover that too?
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:17 am)Those are interesting questions: Does the VOLT have a ‘Neutral’ shifter position? When in Neutral and you step on accelerator, does the electric drive system ‘rev up’ or does it just sit there? Same thing when in ‘Park’… Is the electric drive motor totally disengaged so it will not ‘rev up’?
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:17 am)Graphene batteries said to recharge in 10 minutes
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4204616/Graphene-Batteries-Recharge
+15
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:21 am)Gimme a “+1″ if you plan to use the “Sport Mode” button more than the “Leaf Mode” button!
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:32 am)The Volt has a Neutral position. PRNDM .. I see the M in lots of photos.. not sure if that is suppose to be an L for low. Maybe its M for mountain mode.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:44 am)I think the shifter is pointless for normal situations, but I wonder if there is a requirement that the car be able to be manually shifted into neutral for drive system failures.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:44 am)The new center shifter design looks really great. Were the touchpad console’s “buttons” also redesigned? Maybe it’s the lighting angle of the photo but the buttons appear slightly taller?
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:44 am)What are the functions of all of those buttons on the console? It looks rather busy to me. Also, the buttons themselves look very small. Up here Canada (and your northern states) we spend a lot of time wearing gloves while driving. Those buttons look like they’ll be difficult to press when wearing gloves.
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:47 am)My ’08 Saturn Vue has the 12V power port & Seat Heater switches on the front-facing panel at the back of the console just in front of the center console’s rear lid. I’m guessing GM has also done this for the Volt, as well as placed the USB & AUX/iPod inputs there too. This is an IDEAL location for these jacks because the devices powered and/or providing inputs to the car (and their cables) are best stowed out of the way in the compartment under the hinged lid itself. I LOVE this arrangement compared to dash mounted jacks —it hides the cables safely out of sight & safely stows my iPod, cell phone, etc.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:49 am)If the are ‘capacative-touch’ buttons, will they work while wearing gloves at all?
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:52 am)Way better IMHO.
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:02 am)GM is correct … FORM should FOLLOW function.
Good job. Keep it up!
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:12 am)On other GM cars, the ‘M’ is for ‘Manual Mode’. But since the VOLT has no gears, you are likely right – Mountain Road makes sense.
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:13 am)When I am in Neutral or Park in my Sierra Hybrid, and the engine is in the “Auto Stop” mode, stepping on the accelerator pedal does nothing.
+3
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:16 am)I understand GM’s reasons for changing the design …. but I liked the old one simply because it looked different – more like an airplane throttle control or it reminded me of my favorite shifter of all time…. on a ’69 Camaro:
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:23 am)They will work with gloves.
+18
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:27 am)Here’s what I came up with. Not sure what AS1-2 is though.
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:39 am)One size fits all. Good move. There are ID (industrial design) issues. People with arthritis, other handicaps, women, so forth.
A part of an after-market product (installed into a car) I designed a long time ago involved a driver’s hand. My ID guys just agonized over size. The issue is one we spent a great deal of time on. And two decades plus later the design stands. Now the original shift might be appropriate like on an SS version. Or Converj. (I prefer a heavy rosewood steering wheels and large shifter.) … You’ll also notice the shifter isn’t the only change.
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:39 am)Nice outline! Maybe GM can hire you to simplify the owner’s manual! One comment: in honor of this site’s use of good spelling, you can change ‘parking break’ to ‘parking brake’. Thx
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:47 am)If the goal is to optimize the design, then a factor to consider is the amount of space needed. If you had something smaller, you could use the space for something else, like additional storage. Don’t know about you guys, buy I can never have too many storage spaces.
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:02 pm)edit timed out.
From what we knew already – “The controls on the center panel are “capacitive touch controls”. They engage by detecting electric current in the incoming finger which can be detected from a distance. The button will then provide the user audio and visual feedback. There is no haptic feedback.”
I think Tim G. or Bob B. were directly asked about gloves in an interview, but I can’t find it.
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:08 pm)Roof is black-painted steel. No moon roof. No glass roof. The black roof is standard for 2011, may go away or become an option for 2012.
A glass roof weighs more than one made from sheet steel so that’s a reason for that decision.
A sun/moon roof takes up headroom. Evidently, the Volt is already low enough (for aerodynamic drag reasons) to make headroom an issue. At least that was the rationale I was given.
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:08 pm)Doh!… I think i need a break!
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:11 pm)The trend does seem to be going to smaller or even unrecognizable (in the case of the LEAF).
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:22 pm)Not Jim, it is me, John. It is $1000, and marked fully refundable, and the Volt will be AT MSRP, less the $1K. I did this way back last year when this was the very first dealer advertising that they would take deposits. Little did I know. I got a nice email from Lyle warning me that they could not have cars allocated yet (their ad said that they had allocation), but it was too late. I’m still thinking that this dealer could get cars nearly as quick as my Michigan dealer. It would REALLY tick me off if I cancel and they get cars before my Michigan dealer.
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:25 pm)Good reference for the shifter. A basket handle design for the Volt would allow the full width of the cubby hole to be used while keeping the operator’s fingers between the handle’s uprights, away from pinching. Hey Chevrolet, take a look at the ’69 Camaro for interior inspiration on the Volt SS.
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:28 pm)I wrapped two layers of my Volt Freedom Drive free T-shirt around my finger to simulate a glove. The touchpads on the Volt’s center stack reacted as well as with my bare finger. “As well as” meaning that about every fifth time I had to poke the touch switch a second time to get a reaction, simulated glove or not.
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:30 pm)Yes, it is Buff Whelan Chevrolet, in Sterling Heights. Both I and a fellow from Florida (is it Ted in Tampa?) have orders at the same dealer. Note that there is a thread in one of the Forums on what various dealers have available.
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:38 pm)Great diagram. Thanks.
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:39 pm)I have a story about the roof. I was at a local EV rally. There was a Volt there. There was a lot of buz. I talked to a guy that was excited by the Volt. He is an electrician (who claimed he could install 240V service for the Volt). He had done some work recently at the Hamtramck plant to install a very expensive paper shredder on the Volt assembly line. The Gen1 Volts all will have two color paint jobs because of the roof. That requires pulling off masking tape and disposing of it. It also requires according to his explanation that the Volts go down the line, then go back to get the roof painted, then go back onto the assembly line. Sounded VERY expensive, but it also sounds like GEN1 has various “non obvious” perks that might make them more desirable in the years that come. Gee, if I just had an extra $40K laying around…
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:49 pm)Thanks JohnK. Sorry for the name mix up. I noticed it well after the edit time ran out.
I just spoke with my local Chevrolet dealer here in Connecticut.
He doesn’t know if he is getting any.
I know more about the car than he did. No surprise really.
He is not taking deposits because he doesn’t know what options I want in the car.
That last part got me thinking. Are there options and if so, what are they?
All cars come with options, but I never thought of options in the Volt.
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:52 pm)now THAT is one sweet shifter!
Jul 21st, 2010 (12:55 pm)If you check out the Volt Forum, Nesenger Chevy in NYC has allocation (10 Volts during the first six months of availability starting in November). $500 refundable deposit, selling at MSRP (at least that’s what they said verbally). Still some slots open when I reserved a slot. Going to be a fun 5 hour drive from Syracuse
The salesperson I spoke with at Nesenger mentioned the posisbility of options too (including colors of course). I think that right now they can’t punch an order into their computers, so they don’t really know what/if there are any options
join thE REVolution
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:02 pm)==========================
As JohnK said, it was him, not me. My local dealer will not take a deposit, until he has some idea of when they will be authorized to sell and provide maintenance for the Volt.
And I just would rather buy my cars from a local dealer. My business is local, so I try to buy local……
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:20 pm)I’ve always thought that the prominent shifter was a canny ergo-dynamic feature, to give the driver that subliminal “okay, gonna drive now” feedback. I don’t think that tweaking some little joystick or touch-panel has the same reinforcement as the Volt shifter’s solid “ker-chunk”.
Having said that, I am at a loss to explain the utter ergo-dynamic disconnect which has resulted in that hard-to-use/harder to read expanse of capacitive button ticks. Personally, I think that this is the greatest potential failing of the Volt Gen I design. The irony is that it is so unnecessary. I only hope that it doesn’t spark a series of crashes which gives the (totally unrelated) EREV technology a black eye.
*The buttons should have “haptic response” (even if it is just a piezo chip which makes the panel tick back)
*The buttons shouldn’t all look the same against a same-colored background with tiny labels, forcing a “search and poke” mode on the driver
*When it comes to driver interfaces: The car may be digital, but we’re not. How many digital watches have you seen lately? Levers and knobs are good in a split-second situation. It would take true cleverness to integrate them into a usable EV control system.
The “connected driver experience” guy needs a lesson from whoever is working on the shifter, IMO.
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:21 pm)Hey! (And I’m sure this is a test!) So far nobody noticed that the iPod-like appearance is gone. The erie white appearance is now a more sedate gray. It works for me (but I’m an old fuddy duddy).
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:28 pm)Here is where early adopters are defined. I basically don’t know what options there are, whether I’ll have a choice on options or color (I strongly suspect that I will) or what the MSRP is. Presumably there will be a GO/NO GO decision before the dealer puts the firm order in to GM at least. But I am OK with everything except an outrageous MSRP (and not sure what that would be).
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:29 pm)Leather, Bose stereo are options. Polished vs. chrome wheels maybe. Not sure if backup camera and parking distance sensors are optional or standard. Cargo cover will be a dealer-installed option. GM charges extra for certain colors — the pearl white and red metallic are two.
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:31 pm)I don’t like the idea of a black roof. That will make the interior hot on a sunny day, requiring more air conditioning (which is a power hog). Why black? Are they trying to make it look like a solar panel?? After going to such lengths to get the aerodynamics optimized, and power drain of accessories minimized, why a black, cabin-heating roof? Any thoughts, friends?
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:35 pm)I have a $1,000 deposit at Bellavia Chevrolet in Rutherford NJ. I am 2nd on their waiting list. They called Chevy while I was there and said their allocation would be 8 cars. He didn’t discuss options or colors because he said he simply didn’t know what they would get. I’m guessing it is a crap shoot, they could get 8 black, 4 silver and 4 white, 1 of each, who knows. I just know I’ll get 2nd choice when they come in.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:37 pm)The new one looks kind of like an electric shaver. Talk about turning up the buzz.
/sorry
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:43 pm)Standard perhaps, on the Buick variant?
And speaking of Buick, has anyone noticed TV ads for the new Regal as being “German engineered?” GM may already be grooming Buick to become a luxury take on “American Opel” (can you say Buick Ampera?)
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:46 pm)Since we’re changing things… can we change the top of the dash? Don’t understand (and don’t like) that dust collecting ridge. Wish it were smooth.
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:46 pm)Black/gray is one option. The white is still an option too.
-1
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:47 pm)The shifter is about to replace the hotel bathtub water control as the most cuss-inducing inscrutable thing faced by a (car renting) traveler.
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:48 pm)I guess a black roof would help warm the car in the winter. My guess is to keep the looks somewhat similiar to the original concept (yeah, i know its changed a lot, but this is one way of keeping some of it). The original concept had glass, so the black may be there to mimick the tinted glass look.
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:51 pm)I live in the deep South, where small children and pets die every summer in parked cars. It’s hard to think of a non-styling reason for preferring a black roof. If this reflects current production intent, I think they need to re-think (however, I don ‘t recall a black roof on the prototypes I saw in NY this March. That back hatch makes a pretty big greenhouse, though).
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:52 pm)I like that shifter better than the Volt shifter.
Jul 21st, 2010 (1:58 pm)Rashiid, we will know more tomorrow…. GM is holding a dealer broadcast for dealers in launch markets at 3:00pmEST to review VOLT ordering info…. Not expecting any price announcement, but we should get details on packages (if any) and options. Also hope to get details on exterior/interior colors.
BTW, all dealers in launch markets should have an estimate of how many VOLTs they will be getting through June 2011.
Getting more and more exciting….. I can feel the electricity in the air!
Jul 21st, 2010 (2:02 pm)Once ordering information is released, each dealer should be able to submit specific orders for their allocation. The only exception is the dealer’s demo – which GM will likely just build and send. Thus you should be able to order whatever color you want with whatever options might be available (not expecting many…)
Jul 21st, 2010 (2:12 pm)Good to know. Also, just as an FYI, I got yet another official email about the Volt from Chevy today. They seem to be ramping up communication about the car significantly.
Jul 21st, 2010 (2:28 pm)Thanks LeoK. That is very cool. I’m looking forward to hearing about it.
+4
Jul 21st, 2010 (2:36 pm)These are minor tweaks so as to avoid some ham-fisted reviewer writing that he pinched his big ol’ thumb while shifting to drive. OK. This tells me the VOLT is REALLY Ready for Prime Time. Tim, GM engineers, admins, you guys have all done a FANTASTIC job under the worst of circumstances. You have taken a vision, derived from an idea that was a kernel of imagination and made it into a very REAL product. How utterly awesome people!
The best part is this is the lead product in a major transition on Earth. You people, Lyle and the regulars here on GM-Volt are all participants in making this world a better place. This is not just another automobile with new technology folks… This is the beginning of a better way to live on the planet.
I just want to say what a privilege it has been to participate in such a positive revolution. Good for the planet, good for the people, good for the soul! BRING IT!
Jul 21st, 2010 (2:45 pm)Just pulled out my pics, sure enough; black roofs.
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (2:50 pm)Lest anyone get the wrong idea:
I believe that the Volt is a great, landmark product. Things like the color of the roof and the design of the controls needn’t detract from the excellent engineering job done on this great car, overall. I just have a desire to see Voltec become so perfect and compelling that:
* Ma and Pa line up with Junior and his friends to get one
* They eventually sell in the 100′s of thousands
* Tanker loads of oil can be sent somewhere else instead
* Trolls are dumbstruck (
)
The success of the first Volt run is just the beginning of a movement with world-shaping consequences. Have a nice afternoon, all.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (2:59 pm)Neutral is probably for towing with all four wheels on the ground.. parking may engage a pawl in the differential to lock the gears in place.. the parking brake appears to be a button on the dash, would like to know how it works.
Here is a 1963 Plymouth Fury:
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:02 pm)….And I will be polite and not say exactly where they can be sent.
Edit: How fitting that my comment came after 114.
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:03 pm)I want one like that on my first warp-capable shuttlecraft.
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:26 pm)Don’t forget you need neutral for the carwash too
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:30 pm)My mother had a 1967 Plymouth Fury Station Wagon. The parking break was activated by the lever left of the transmission buttons. If I remember correctly, you lowered the lever to activate the parking brake.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:37 pm)…and I’d like the color to change with my moods (g)
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:37 pm)Am I the only one who is more interested in what is coming in next Gen Volt more than things like this?
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:41 pm)Agreed 100%. But thanks for checking the past photos for black roofs. Not a show-stopper for me by a long-shot, just one of those little things that would make more sense for the overall product concept (efficiency). I would rather heat the Volt a little more in winter (since heat is a natural by-product of the ICE) than have to cool it a little more in summer (due to a black roof).
Agreed, the trolls are really taking a pretty nasty beating now, heehee.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:45 pm)Amen and well said!
Things are getting exciting-(er)!
Time to shoot the Gen I engineers and get this puppy on the road!
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:47 pm)This is also a fine approach. As of now we need only a switch or knob as all controls are electronic.
The GMC graphite’s shifter approach also works .
Jul 21st, 2010 (3:56 pm)==============================
That is probably because like me, you will have to wait for Gen-2 before you are able to buy a Volt…..
After all, Ohio is a small state with only a few people…………….. Can you tell that I am still unhappy with the “limited release area” implementation plan????
Jul 21st, 2010 (4:18 pm)I too would like to know more about the next Gen Volt. Unfortunately, it was said just the other day that GM will not be as open and forthcoming about future generations of the Volt as they were with Gen-1. This leads me to believe any such information is likely to be rather sketchy unless Lyle presses for information and posts it here on this website. Hope he does that! Hope he also continues to press for information regarding other GM vehicles that include the E-REV technology.
Jul 21st, 2010 (4:37 pm)I don’t know. Once the Volt is out, Lyle’s job is done.
He might just close up shop and go home.
Jul 21st, 2010 (5:19 pm)Does it seem odd to anyone that the volt has two shifters? One the lever engages (Park, Reverse, and Drive) and a second push-button shifter that only effects the Drive mode (eco or boost). In would think that a much better HMI would be to combine these features all into the lever (Park, Reverse, Eco-Drive, Sport-Mode).
Also, some people have mentioned that the shifter is entirely digital, which can’t be the case. The parking brake must be engaged by a physical mechanism and not a digital connection, right?
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (5:22 pm)I second that motion. It would be great to hear about GM’s plans for the now defunct 2-Mode Plug in Hybrid Vue. Where did this go. Is it going to land in the equinox and when.
-2
Jul 21st, 2010 (5:23 pm)‘Tis the season to discuss small details and last-minute design tweaks.
We know when the Volt concept became the Volt production design, GM’s design team had their crosshairs on the ’04-’09 iteration of the Prius. When I bought my Prius I was mixed on it’s interior design, because I had no reference point of comparison. It’s dash and interior was just that much different from anything I’d ever owned or seen outside an auto show concept car or designer’s sketch.
Toyota took a swing at futuristic and while the design is quirky, it does work well. Prius’ dash garners comments from passengers. Some used to say, “Wow, this thing is weird!”. After awhile though, as Prius sprang up like weeds in spring – people just accepted it and began appreciating many of it’s effective features. One of which is the shifter. It’s nondescript. It’s small, and it’s almost a “knob”, but it’s really effective once you get in and drive it every day. The throws are so short ( less than one fifth the throw of a tradititional console-mounted automatic’s ), and the location so close to your hand on the wheel, using it is like using your arm-you just don’t think about it. You’ll notice Toyota used different shaped buttons for different functions, and the size or size of print ( and color ) differ according to it’s function and/or frequency of use by the average driver.
Puzzling is the fact that GM took a shot at what a future Prius might go to. But I wonder if they drove a Prius extensively to also fuel their ideas. Toyota’s newer iteration moves the little knob onto the console but still close to the driver, not a reach. Still, Toyota used a knob with small movements to get to functions. GM went with a kind of back-to-the-future type console automatic tranny lever, it’s not a “paddle”, as the article typifies it. A paddle is what is commonly known as a lever shaped like a paddle usually behind the steering wheel.
I’ve watched so many test drive videos of Volt, and usually shake my head at the clunk, clunk, large throw, auto tranny type situation GM chose for the shift mechanism. I understand the logic, to make the typical Chevrolet driver comfortable with it’s operation – but truth is, the Prius knob is not hard to fathom for anyone, it’s just “snick snick easy” slick and easy to use. IMO the slide and clunk GM shifter seems a throwback and not a futuristic solution to a user interface.
Also, I’ll mention again, how GM is going to take a beating when auto journals test drive the Volt for it’s user interface. I understand most functions will be accessible from the touchscreen and that is very effective. That said, the tiny nibs, all exactly the same size, with small, tiny print will be hazed by testers. And I’d have to agree that the shiny white plastic is funky at best – and we know designs have to be finalized far before production, so the I-Pod has changed alot since then. GM was often mentioned back then, as thinking the I-pod was an inspiration. Even the I-pod before the “Touch” models of today were intuitive and could be controlled without looking at the device. I just think GM missed the boat here as it’s final design is fiddly and confusing, and the gray plastic version will be a dust magnet as is my second-gen Prius. Glossy plastic becomes magnetized and attracts dust like a hot girl gets attention in a bar.This choice of console material seems more an attempt at a future-look and not much thought as to practical use.
To GM’s credit they gave the console interface a tactile feedback ( haptic ) but unless that feedback differs for each function, it’s not going to help when the driver is taking his eyes off the road to, for instance, change tracks on the CD he’s listening to.
Other observations: My Prius makes me shake my head in that it has a very old school mechanical foot parking brake yet has a “P” for park push button parking brake. Since you start the car with a button, and park the car with a button, it seems kind of caveman-esque to then have to reach for a pedal and press the brake – My wife and I forget to release it half the time since that requires another foot press, and the “brake” light on the dash is small and about a mile away on the readout since the speedo is a football field away from the driver’s eyes.
Again, these are detail critiques, and if I could buy a Volt in Washington State they would not keep me from buying in. They are things to think about, as Volt will take knocks on this design as it is fiddly and confusing, and will take the driver’s eyes off the road too much.
My recommend: Larger graphics, and varying graphics per function. Take many of the Volt’s console controls to the steering wheel, as Prius does so masterfully. If GM were to use that template, yet just change the feel or design of buttons it would never be seen as copying…it just works and works well. And lastly, can the shiny plastic dust magnet ( as Toyota did for ’10 ) for the console and add a toggle or “knob” for a shifter, and lose the current design altogether. Sport mode should be a paddle behind the steering wheel on the right side, one the driver can access like blinking your eyes.
Just my two cents.
RECHARGE!
James
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (5:25 pm)Someone sure is in for a surprise.
Rollout is just another step in a long journey.
Much more will need to be done then compared to what has been done so far, history clearly indicates interest will grow dramatically… along with the number of newbie questions and the problem of dealing with misconceptions.
Enjoy the relative calm now.
Jul 21st, 2010 (5:40 pm)I live in the high desert in California. The most popular color here has been white for years. Silver comes up a bit also.
Yet even on a million degree day, with some insulation and a headliner it’s still hot as heck, yep crazy hot. I don’t think the paint color will make that much difference, to be contrarian. Unless 4 or 5 degrees when it’s 117 in the shade is a big difference.
Example; if I walk with bare feet on a whitish gray sidewalk my feet feel burned. If I walk on a black asphalt street, same thing. So, after a few hours in the sun and heat up here, body color, headliners and a smidgen of insulation don’t make one whit of difference. It’s still darned hot.
Jul 21st, 2010 (5:48 pm)Oops — correction — I meant to say “push button for Park mode on the CVT” .
RECHARGE!
James
Jul 21st, 2010 (5:52 pm)Does anyone know if the touchscreen is resistive or capacitive? If its capacitive it may not work w/gloves. I can’t tell but there may even be an infrared grid (which would work w/gloves).
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (5:58 pm)Easy to test. Go to a car lot on a hot afternoon. Go up to a white car and put your hand on it. Then go up to a black car and put your hand on it. Then tell us if you think the paint color makes a big difference.
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:01 pm)There is no haptic feeback.
It will be interesting to fine out what “user configurable” screens actually means. Font size may be one of them. Or maybe a “favorites” screen where users can put anything they want on there. Think of moving apps around on your Iphone.
Jul 21st, 2010 (6:21 pm)#128 James:
Does anyone ever say that Reverse and Drive are reversed?
+2
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:47 pm)Me either, although not getting a jammed thumb sounds like a good idea. Let’s just be glad they didn’t OVER-do the idea of a simpler shifter…
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:54 pm)Thanks kdawg for the correction: I had it in my mind that in the test drives, GM people kept explaining the haptics will be revised, while on review it seems they were speaking of the audible tone given over the speakers when buttons are pressed.
I’d say it’s a safe bet Volt’s dash and user interface will change quite substantially for gen II if that ever happens. I agree with Jackson that the center stack is kind of a train wreck, but I disagree with his take on shifter design and operation. The Prius’ knob/toggle is spring-loaded, which works really nicely to return to the center “home” location. “B mode as shown in the photo is Regenerative Braking mode in Prius and it’s nicely located as a tap down with dash indicator, it’s not a console button. It’s upside-down shift pattern only confuses once….or twice before the owner becomes acclimated to it’s setup – I think a Ferrari or any number of cars with gated shifter take alot longer to get used to. 2010 Prius have a high location with a raised center console for it’s shift toggle, and it’s new, more ergonomic shape kind of fits right around your finger so you can tap tap…not the Volts, grab, pull and clunk. I noticed the GM rep in one video who tells a SXSW Volt test driver that she had a friend who couldn’t figure out how to drive a Prius rental car and had to get out! – LOL – She used this as a rationale towards the current Volt setup. Now, would you cater your design to the rental fleet for a car that it’s safe to say, won’t make rental fleets at all? New shifter designs become second nature to a car owner in short order.
In test drive videos I notice a GM employee toggling screens like function, efficiency and nav with the top of the Sport Mode button. On Prius you do all this from the steering wheel…VERY handy vs. Volt. The Prius itself has touchscreen issues as you want to check nav, efficiency, HVAC and other screens several times on the average drive. Most of these functions can be toggled with your thumb or forefinger without lifting from the wheel – it’s the ones you cannot that are a bug – Like trying to train your wife to be a good navigator on a trip with a location you’re not familiar with, or to change temp, etc —- always, it’s “honey, you just do this – that…etc”, it would be nice if she took the time to read the manual or play with it a bit since when she drives, she just steps on the pedal and goes.
Those functions you cannot access from the wheel ( on Volt, nearly ALL of them ) are the ones that get Prius drivers ( and I’m sure other hybrid drivers as well ) in trouble as they take their attention off the road and get mezmerized by the touchscreen. Ever almost get killed by a inattentive Prius drivers staring at her screen? I have.
Makes me wonder if we’ll be hearing about Tesla Model S crashes galore along with Volts because of this distraction. Ever seen the Model S dash?!!! It’s like a bigger iPad!
RECHARGE!
James
Jul 21st, 2010 (7:57 pm)Easier still, though I don’t normally drive from the roof of my car. Hence the reference to the headliner and a smidge of insulation (though I’m sure there will be an app for that soon). I have a silver car and a black car in the garage, send me a check and wait for a 117 degree day, I’ll give you the results. As I said, up here it don’t make a bit o’ difference, it’s still danged hot.
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:12 pm)Boy, I know what you mean. It look like forever to get used to my Ferrari…. (lol).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:13 pm)The motor is always connected to the wheels (through a reduction gear). All neutral would do is disable the controller. In park it kicks in a lock to keep the wheels from turning.
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:17 pm)I believe the Volt has a permanent magnet motor. If so, it produces considerable voltage rolling with the power off.
If the car is disabled because the electronics self immolated then towing with the front wheels on the ground would be a really bad idea. At a minimum it will get the inverter burning again. It will also likely cause the wheels to slide along slower than it is being towed.
As a means to towing behind an RV, both the LEAF and the Volt should be great candidates. I know one person who is fully intent on buying a LEAF to tow behind his RV.
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:52 pm)Toyota’s Yaris also has a gated automatic shifter gate on the console, as do Camry Hybrids, many Chrysler products, Jaguar’s infamous “J gate” auto shifters and on and on and on….
Mercedes had gated auto shift levers on the console for decades.
So take your pick. Would the Yaris example fit you better? L
L
RECHARGE!
James
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.auto-searchphilippines.com/images/Toyota_Yaris_gate_type_automatic_transmission.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.auto-searchphilippines.com/ToyotaYaris.html&usg=__zljW9JJYHiEyCiMpnF6yzZKVHBw=&h=336&w=353&sz=18&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=ikQ4ijq1FICd-M:&tbnh=115&tbnw=121&prev=/images%3Fq%3DYaris%2Bshifter%2Bgate%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D631%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&ei=N6RHTKj8NILjnAe-wemyBA
Jul 21st, 2010 (8:58 pm)LOL, there you go taking me seriously again. *Always* a dicey proposition and cause to think again
(and yes, a Yaris would be a better fit)
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:06 pm)WARNING: Simple-mindedness seizure (mine, not Matt”s)
Wouldn’t it be cool if you could charge the LEAF by pulling it around with your RV? When you arrived in the wilderness, you’d have a fully charged car. It’d be especially handy for long trips. Instead of V2G, it’d be RV2BEV.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 21st, 2010 (9:32 pm)I’ve actually been thinking about this and was planning to find out what towing recommendations would be for the Volt. I had basically decided that a tow dolly was the way to go.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:02 pm)Lyle there should have been an option for “delete the shifter altogether” Why use up valuable real estate for something that isn’t needed? You might as well have a tiller in the cockpit.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:52 pm)Important points were made and I thought about throwing this in earlier. With my Toyota hybrids, the drive wheels must be off the ground for towing. So this means, in the case of the Highlander Hybrid, ALL FOUR wheels must be off the ground. For the Prius, it is the front wheels. It would seem likely that the Volt would be comparable.
Jul 21st, 2010 (10:56 pm)Sorry, just a pipe dream. Even if possible, the energy will come from somewhere- and it will be added drag on the towing vehicle (so it would be just using fuel to charge). Better to charge it when you get there.
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:10 pm)My only question is (and any of you who have already driven it can tell me) how does it respond to being “in gear” but no pedals pressed? In a regular car, there is a slow movement, a range of speed where you basically “ride the brake.” Does that exist with electric drive?
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:14 pm)I can’t say I’ve tried it at 117 F. but I’ve demonstrated it a 95 F. Basically a surface that reflects all the energy of the sun isn’t going to be the temperature of a surface that absorbs all the energy of the sun. The latter is gaining about 450 BTU per hour per square foot.
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:16 pm)One interesting point would be that trailer parks have 240 outlets all over the place.
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:17 pm)Darn physics always get in the way. Thanks.
Be well,
Tagamet
/night all
Jul 21st, 2010 (11:49 pm)I was referring to the cabin temperature, I apologize if it seemed as though I was referring to the temperature on the exterior surfaces at the roof of the car. Though you raise a good point, if I could find a surface that reflected all of the heat energy and did not blind onlookers, at a reasonable price, it would be a terrific way to preserve my clear-coat.
+2
Jul 22nd, 2010 (12:00 am)That’s NOT a paddle shifter. But I do like the new Volt shifter vs the old one.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (12:01 am)If is powered on it just might do that from the factory. Every time the tow buddy kicked on the LEAF would go into regen. (A tow budy is a little box in the car that pushes on the brake pedal when the RV brakes go on.) What makes it UBER COOL is that the car would be charged not by the burning of diesel, but the capture of braking energy that otherwise would be thrown away.
The LEAF is a good match because you never get far from your RV. If you want to go more than a few hours away, move the RV.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (12:11 am)Are white, black, gray and green still options for the non haptic, lighted sensitive touch panel?
Jul 22nd, 2010 (12:12 am)The current crop of hybrids can’t be towed for several reasons.
In the case of the Prius, Fusion, and Escape hybrids, the power split device places a maximum speed without the engine on. One of the two motor generators (MG1) spins at the difference in speed between the engine and the car. When the engine is off, it must spin backwards when the car is going forwards. As the car gets going fasterr, MG1 is spun backwards faster. At some maximum speed the engine has to run or the motor will come apart from over speed. This is why the engine can’t shut down at freeway speed. If you were to pull the car fast enough with the power off, MG1 would eventually fail. You could pull the car with the power on without damage, but any time the speed was high enough, the engine would start spinning un-fueled. It wouldn’t hurt it, but it would add wear and drag… basically a bad idea.
On the two mode hybrids, the transmission is capable of de-clutching from the engine completely. What is lacking is lubrication for the transmission with the power off. Likely all that is needed is to power up the transmission oil pump from the RV 12V system, but no way is GM going to warranty that.
All of this doesn’t apply to the Volt or LEAF. Both have nothing but a gear reduced motor connected to the wheels. There the only concern is what the inverter will do when back fed electricity from the motor with the power off. Unless GM or Nissan did something really stupid, this should not be a problem.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (12:16 am)SMOF
(Simple Matter Of Firmware)
It will do whatever they program it to do. The Volt is programmed to creep forward with no pedals pressed so it is like driving a car with an automatic transmission.
Hopefully there is a menu item somewhere that will turn that off so it won’t move until you press the throttle. If not I’ll be wearing out the shifter lever popping it into neutral all the time so I can just sit there.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (12:18 am)See #155… the energy can come from slowing the vehicle combination when the energy would otherwise be wasted.
+2
Jul 22nd, 2010 (12:23 am)That brings up an interesting point. There are more than 1 million RVs with a NEMA 14-50 plug on them. That’s a 240V 50A plug. Old codgers manage to plug them in every day without electrocuting themselves.
If they can do it, tell me why EV can’t have just a regular plug instead of the fancy, $1,500 plug the Volt and LEAF require?
Jul 22nd, 2010 (1:13 am)The heat at the surface does get transferred to the interior. Glazing may be a bigger issue but you’re still talking, at a minimum, of 5 degrees C for the cabin.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (1:20 am)Not sure it’s all a safety issue. The J1772 plug has additional communication channels. At this point you don’t have much production and, as I’ve pointed out ad nauseum, as volume goes up unit costs come down. Also the plug and cord don’t cost $1500. That’s the price for the charging station. (Your dryer plug doesn’t cost $1500.)
Jul 22nd, 2010 (4:48 am)Something like the column on the left. How cool is that?
=D-Volt
Jul 22nd, 2010 (5:01 am)#155 Mathew B said:
The LEAF is a good match because you never get far from your RV. If you want to go more than a few hours away, move the RV.
Would this give new meaning to the question, “How far can you go into the forest?”
Jul 22nd, 2010 (5:03 am)Very cool.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (5:48 am)Thats a very good point, suppose you want to go camping with your Volt or LEAF.. why not sell you a J1772 with the NEMA 14-50 on the end?.. should not be more than $200 tops, probably on EBAY a couple of months after these cars come on the market. Household wiring codes should not apply since you are on a campground..
Jul 22nd, 2010 (6:01 am)There is no issue (no voltage is generated) with a magnet-less induction motor backfeeding into the inverter.. we know the Volts main motor is like that.. since the Volt is using a modified 2 Mode transmission with perhaps a geared-down main motor, a planetary gearset and a differential then there may be some lubrication issues if towed with the power off and all the wheels on the ground. Even the LEAF uses a differential and probably gears down the motor.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (6:27 am)Matthew,
I plug my MINI-E into NEMA 14-50 plugs and it works fine. Campgrounds have them everywhere and they’re safe. We’re not ‘supposed” to do it, but I made a plug that will work to kepp in the car just in case.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (6:47 am)Hey, I resemble that remark.
I’d buy one for sure.
I think I see a business opportunity for you.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (9:12 am)I haven’t heard for sure which way the Volt went. If it is induction then the voltage is much less. It is not zero in an induction motor due to residual magnetism in the rotor. I’ve seen 10% of rated voltage in an induction motor.
Perhaps the Volt does use pressure lubrication, but I can’t see a reason to do that other than the two mode heratige.
The LEAF certainly shouldn’t have pressure lubrication since it’s a clean sheet design. Manual transmissions and differentials are typically splash lubricated, no reason for the LEAF to be different. The only manual transmissions that can have trouble with towing are rear wheel drive ones where all of the gears move with the engine. With the transmission in neutral and the engine off, no gears move when the output shaft just spins inside the gears and no oil is picked up and thrown over the bearings. All front wheel drive manual transaxle cars are towable 4 down. Since the differential and final drive are in the same box and they move when the wheels move, oil is picked up and fed to the bearings.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (9:47 am)Why shifter? some kind of soft touch button is good enough. cleaning is not easy with little space.
Jul 22nd, 2010 (10:25 am)Unless it knocks about $20k off the price it isn’t going to matter mich to me.
+1
Jul 22nd, 2010 (10:45 am)I care less about the shifter and more about the fact that GM is releasing interior photos of the control panel in something other than iPod white! Whew!
Jul 23rd, 2010 (5:32 pm)The shifter is a stupid idea. It should be a simple set of two buttons — forward and reverse on the dash. Save the space for something INTERESTING or useful in the center console.
Jul 24th, 2010 (4:14 pm)Seriously, what era are you from??? I can pretty much guarantee you are over 35 years old… probably over 45. You say “lots of people” don’t like digital speedometers? FYI, the Honda Civic is one of the best selling cars on the market, and it has a beautiful digital display.
It’s like Analog Clocks. That’s Medieval Technology. It is soo absurd for us not to progress beyond analog. Who uses pencils nowadays? Even standardized testing is moving from the #2 pencil to computerized.
One of the best things about the volt is its use of electricity including digitization of data.
“More Normal”??? what on earth. You are a fossil, a relic, a thing of the past. The Volt represents movement upward, better, forward. It is for those who continually envision that things could be better, not for those who want to go back to the past.
Jul 24th, 2010 (4:18 pm)Actually an intelligent comment… yes, those areas of the car do tend to collect dirt/dust/grime.
Jul 26th, 2010 (4:11 am)FYI, I did pinch my pinky (not thumb) on the wide shifter during my low-speed Volt test drive on July 3rd. The GM guy in the car with me (I knew his name then, but have since forgotten it) stopped me in time to prevent any actual pain. Had he not done that, I think it would have been _very_ painful.
He then told me that they were aware of the pinching problem and that the production vehicles would have narrower shifters.