People often ask why GM doesn’t seem to be advertising the Volt.
It turns out now that launch is near, the process has begun. Since GM announced the new initial launch markets of Texas and New York, print, television, and newspaper ads have begun appearing in those regions.
At the top of this article you can see a copy of the Volt print ad that ran among other places in the New York Times. At the bottom of this article you can see a 30 second Chevrolet Volt television commercial.
I also had the follwing discussion on this with Tony DiSalle who is GMs director of Volt marketing.
How about people who get confused about the 40 mile range, do you think there is some education needed as some people see the LEAF as being somehow better and how will you go about correcting that?
There’s no question. How we are going about doing it? One way is to talk to you and people like yourself to get the word out. Clearly we have a lot more work to do digitally ourselves. You will absolutely see messaging from us from an advertising and marketing perspective to try to get the word out as well. You’re absolutely right, this is neat, it is a great marketing challenge as there isn’t a clear frame of reference for this. We’re kind of in many ways because the car is so innovative, we have to over-communicate in order to land the message with the consumer.
In terms of how the Volt does what it does, how we are able to achieve this notion of you don’t have to sacrifice your lifestyle. You charge your Volt overnight you take it out running errands, your plans change, don’t worry about it, you don’t have to come home and recharge. We have a backup system that’s going to get you where you need to go.
We’re working on creative concepts to help bring that to life right now, and also a lot of the PR outreach talking to people like yourself is really important.
The grassroots approach?
Yes. And I’ll also tell you we have a saying here that there is no better marketing told for the Volt than the Volt. Getting people in the car is going to be very very important.
You mean buyers and owners?
Buyers and having dealers demonstrate the vehicle and all of those kind of things. Auto shows, events, those kinds of grassroots things, as easy and as basic and as simple as it sounds, you can literally have somebody sit in the car, walk them around it, and in many cases drive it. I have found when you can do that the car can and does sell and educate itself.
I hear people ask why GM isn’t advertising the Volt in a traditional way. There’s no cool ads when Nissan is doing all this stuff for the LEAF. Are big flashy Volt ads something we will eventually see?
Oh yeah, you will at some point. Keep in mind we’re still five months away from launch. As we get closer you’ll obviously see more and more from an advertising perspective from us.
I can’t tell you specifically the medium and those kinds of things, those are things that were working through right now. There’s clearly an intent to advertise.
Will we see some celebrity endorsements, or things along those lines?
There’s nothing for me to announce to you today…we know this neurologist in New York…
This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 13th, 2010 at 6:50 am and is filed under Advertising. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:56 am)It will be exciting to see Volt being advertised… although here in NC I won’t see any ads unless they run some spots on national networks.
The irony, of course, is that given the low production numbers, GM could sell every Volt it makes three times over without spending a dime on advertising.
But it’s all about perceptions, and Nissan has definitely been stealing the limelight with the Leaf.
+4
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:57 am)Spend the money on more Volts for owners to bragg about.
+5
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:58 am)Love the 30 second spot! Exciting…now let’s ramp up production soon!
+7
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:00 am)you should add a volt release day count down to the home page..
+23
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:00 am)Disalle is absolutely right when he says, “….I’ll also tell you we have a saying here that there is no better marketing told for the Volt than the Volt. Getting people in the car is going to be very very important.”
Words, printed or spoken, won’t do it. Video, YouTubed or televised, won’t do it. Testimonies, from neighbors or celebrities, won’t do it.
I didn’t realize how VERY important test driving a Volt would be until I was STUNNED by my test drive in NYC! (For anyone who didn’t see the test report, click)….
http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/02/gm-volt-reader-test-drives-the-nasaman-report/
+15
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:06 am)This morning on the CBS Early Show they ran the “red X” Chevy ad, testing cars in all sorts of extreme conditions with a very brief shot of a Volt in a heat chamber at the very end. Suddenly I realized why they haven’t been heavily advertising the Volt so far. The most important sentence in todays post is “… the car can and does sell and educate itself.” If heavy advertising were getting people talking about the car with none on the road, the confused and the haters would be spreading FUD with no evidence to the contrary. “Yes, I’ve heard about the Volt but I understand that it seats two, costs $23 a night to charge, gets 12 MPG and bursts into flames if you hold the steering wheel the wrong way.”
Once people have a fair chance of encountering a Volt on the road, at work, or in a chance encounter at the Walmart parking lot, and “the car does sell itself”, the FUD will be seen to be hollow.
So, pump up advertising to crank up the national conversations only after some cars are out on the road — “this winter” says the tag line.
+10
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:11 am)Hey, wait a minute. We know a neurologist in New York too.
And yes, he is a celebrity.
You, Lyle, are the epitome of their advertising campaign!
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:13 am)Shack on the commercial! I liked it.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:17 am)Finally someone in advertising who has a clue
“The grassroots approach?
Yes. And I’ll also tell you we have a saying here that there is no better marketing told for the Volt than the Volt. Getting people in the car is going to be very very important.
You mean buyers and owners?
Buyers and having dealers demonstrate the vehicle and all of those kind of things. Auto shows
, events, those kinds of grassroots things, as easy and as basic and as simple as it sounds, you can literally have somebody sit in the car, walk them around it, and in many cases drive it. I have found when you can do that the car can and does sell and educate itself.”
+7
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:18 am)It’s Electric!
You can’t see it
It’s electric!
You gotta feel it
It’s electric!
Ooh, it’s shakin’
It’s electric!
Jiggle-a-mesa-cara
She’s a pumpin’ like a matic
She’s a movin’ like electric
She sure got the boogie
You gotta know it
It’s electric
Boogie woogie, woogie!
Now you can’t hold it
It’s electric
Boogie woogie, woogie!
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:28 am)Each demo drive will will get word out to several friends of the demo driver. This is why it’s important for GM sales people to highlight the extended range (400 miles?) that the Volt provides.
“This is the car that will provide 400 miles.”
The shift away from the typical Accord, 325i, Altima, and Sebring will challenge the comfort zone of many buyers. Soft sell approach featuring a solid presentation of the benefits of ownership.
=D-Volt
BTW: The two GM dealerships I am in contact with are doing the best they can to provide infomation concerning all areas of the Volt. Yesterday we spoke about options. And even a little on pricing. Get involved and touch base with your local dealership.
+4
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:34 am)I thought the commercial was very well thought out. Nice 30 sec spot. I find my interest peaks for commercials that build up to something like that one. That is just me.
+13
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:38 am)Some people want to know how much the Volt will cost.
+5
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:45 am)I’ve seen it many times on SNY (the Mets network). The first time I saw it was the day they announced the Freedom Drive. AS the commercial started, I thought to myself “Oh, another LEAF commercial” because I knew the car was electric from the sound(or lack of). I almost fell off my chair when I realized it was a Volt commercial because I hadn’t seen anything yet, none of us had and we were all complaining about the lack of advertising.
Lyle, you know this as well as anyone because you have driven an electric car like I do (MINI-E). You guys out there are going to LOVE driving an EV. It is such a great experience. I have been telling everyone since I got the car. The smooth acceleration and instant torque, the quiet peaceful drive without the vibrations of the engine when the rpm’s are high. It’s such a different experience, Volt(and LEAF owners for that matter) are going to like their cars more then they even realize.
Yes, the best advertising GM could ask for will be listening to Volt owner talk about how he loves his new car.
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:50 am)Nice! I can’t wait to see more Volt commercials. I guess it makes sense to wait until close to launch. The public can tend to have short memories, and if they’re real interested in the Volt a year from launch, they might still forget it exists at launch time.
-25
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:03 am)(click to show comment)
+6
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:05 am)Things i’d like to know about the Volt that could be released somehow through advertising or Chevrolet brochures at some point:
These are in order of importance for me
1) Price (this is probably the most important thing for people who won’t be “early adopters”)
2) Interior Cabin Silence (is it quieter than a Lexus, Infinity, Buick Enclave? i want to hear that the Volt shields road noise better than any other vehicle on the road today)
3) Fuel Economy numbers (C.S. mode, official EPA numbers, etc)
4) Release dates (since the roll out is gradual i’m not getting too excited about this, but i’m sure some people really want to know. it will be an exciting moment)
There are a myriad of other small things, but those are the crucial ones. Post your top as-yet-unknown list of things you’d like GM to let us know prior to launch.
+5
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:22 am)Volt owner says he hasn’t bought gas for months, will try to fill it next weekend just to make sure gauge is correct, full story at 11:00.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:23 am)Have you noticed the countdown box on the home page here?
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:25 am)I really like this ad. It captures the thing about electric cars that I like the most. That is the “electric experience”. The car looks like it is really moving down the road which shows us that this is not a glorified golf cart. Many people think that all electric cars are just big golf carts. The slight motor whine that you hear gives you a very futuristic feel.
This ad doesn’t cover all the other reasons to buy the car but the best ads are simple and just make one point. And that is that this car is really cool. There will be other ads that will educate the customer.
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:27 am)Oh Kaaaaaaaaay
That’s quite enough coffee for you this morning. Back away from the coffee maker, LOL.
+6
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:42 am)How was the energy supply at 3 AM?
Answer the first question and you’ll have the answer to this part for most of the people. If you get one charge cycle per day with the Volt, it makes a major dent in your gasoline use even if you run around the rest of the time on gasoline.
Even if the Volt fuel mileage turns out rotten, it beats a SUV.
+25
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:43 am)I just LOVE this guy !
Every troll on GM-Volt.com is another person who will NOT be competing with me to buy a Volt version 1.0. Thank you Cancerman. Thank you Jimza Skeptic. Thank you to the guy who says “dum dums” too much. And thank you to all the kids who use their mom’s computer to post under (what they believe are) cute screen names, to put down the Volt for whatever reason. Thank you for NOT attempting to buy MY Volt.
I appreciate it, and I’ll try not to laugh at the Leaf vehicles on the shoulder with dead batteries.
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:43 am)My dad is a salesman and does the ordering for the GM dealership local to me. He has been talking up the Volt to his regional manager. It appears that since the local dealership is owned by the same guy that owns several in Texas near Dallas, that I might be able to transfer a Volt my direction once the Texas dealerships start getting Volts. Talking with dealerships will be a huge deal. Go out and talk to a salesman or a sales manager at a local GM dealership and get your name out there so that they can remember you when they get their first Volt into their showrooms.
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:44 am)I like the ad. I still think the Lance Armstrong LEAF ad is the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O7NFmC7U-k
+6
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:47 am)LOL, that one made me laugh. +1
+5
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:47 am)I suspect there are far fewer than you think. It is probably a grand total of three guys doing this behind a proxy to give them multiple IP addresses.
-20
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:49 am)(click to show comment)
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:50 am)Pushing the advertising after the cars hit the pavement is nothing new for GM.
We just know how significant this car really is and want to see it out there. Until Chevy makes more, we’ll probably see more effective Cruze advertising than Volt ink.
Next winter (next model year) will be a significant period for the Volt, what will the production go ahead be then? Owner testimonials will be in full swing and we’ll be posting like proud papas around here.
So, when the time comes, buy a Volt, take the neighbors for a drive,
demand more.
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:51 am)Looking forward to a car so quiet that I can sneek up on my lousy neighbors when they’re walking in the street without them hearing until I’m practically up their butts. Good job GM!
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:51 am)That’s catchy….Now if only someone could match some music to it and come up with a dance routine. Where are those Volt dancers again?
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:55 am)Glad to hear that the issue of advertising is finally being addressed and looking forward to seeing those ads for the Volt in print and on Television as well as hearing them on the radio.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:02 am)IF they would only get the Volt to FL, (JAX FL to be precise), I would not need a neurologist! Unless they let me use/borrow/buy their Volt…..any neurologist takers….from ny?
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:02 am)#2
Particularly since the LEAF test drive review this morning on MSNBC made note of how much road noise was present in the LEAF. It was alot, apparently. The Volt should really focus on this, and other things as they become apparent to separate the quality of the Volt from the roughness of the LEAF.
After all, the quietness of electric drive does you no good if you hear a constant drumming of road noise instead. Might drive you nuts.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:09 am)And you ALMOST could have, but it looks like the current legislation attached to the Electric Vehicle Deployment Act of 2010 is going to mandate all electric cars have an “approaching vehicle sound for pedestrians” so long before before you sneak up on them, they will hear the beep, beep or brup, brup of your Volt. Some say they’ll disable it, but you’ll then have to pay a huge fine if caught and worse, if you are in an accident, your insurance company will deny your claim and you’ll get sued personally.
I’ve written letters to my representatives and to auto manufacturers to ask for studies to be done before we rush to legislation. We should be trying to lower the overall noise level of cars, not raise it. The National Foundation of the Blind isn’t the real entity behind this. I think we all realize they don’t have the political power to get this to legislation as quickly as it has moved in the past couple months.
Read this interesting story on it:
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/23/chelsea-sexton-were-losing-sight-of-reason-in-the-debate-over/
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:17 am)It’s real!
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:21 am)The print ad is a good example of throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. The video is pretty good but too long so maybe for the web. As for test drives, those may be great but unless someone is aware of the car they’re not going to want a test drive. A test drive may close the deal but you still need PR to raise awareness. For this car traditional advertising is a waste of money.
Then again with the production numbers they are talking about they have time.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:22 am)Cool video. This is more like it GM.
No more amateur hour. We’re starting to see the real GM marketing machine in action.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:24 am)I love the print ad and I really like the TV ad shown here. Very attention getting and both leave you wanting to find out more about what’s NOT being shown. Which of course, more information about that will be coming.
A nice change from the screaming local car dealer ads, “Come on down to Bob’s Chevy on the automile. Where price sells cars!!!!!!”
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:28 am)Appears GM/Chevy is following a plan.
They have introduced many cars and and we trust they will be successful with their advertising.
It will be interesting to see the progress and information flow up to launch.
By then we WILL KNOW —
Cost
MPG
Any new markets?
and
even …. demand projections.
-2
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:30 am)You have a cite to this? It seems odd since everyone who has driven the Leaf, including those last week in San Diego, have all remarked on quiet the Leaf is. Actually the words from the North County Time reporter were more like “silent” than “quiet”. The senior editor from Edmunds said “It’s got all the good things an electric car brings to the table, including a stunningly quiet and smooth ride, yet doesn’t really seem all that different.
Maybe it was just the road. Or maybe, being from NY, they had the window up so they could shout at other drivers and there was some road work going on.
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:30 am)And within one to three months, we’ll probably know all four of these items. It seems like forever, but its not.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:37 am)The best thing is, even if they do screw up the promotion, the car uses almost no gas…
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:38 am)Scorecard:
Print Ad #1: “3″
No picture of the car or Katherine Heigl to get someone flipping the pages of Road and Track to pause long enough to then read the ad.
Television Ad #1: “8″
Great visual. I would love to drive that same road in my VOLT. The sound of the wind works well if the tv commercial before it was really loud. ‘Silence’ can be an attention getter too.
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:39 am)The video clip is very good. The print ad I don’t care much for, but not too many people read newspapers anymore, anyway.
I know, that somewhere in this community of volt watchers, that there is a transportation planner that is lurking and not posting about how important the EREV will be.
Maybe someday he or she will venture their knowledge of what EREV means to them. It will not be small.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:44 am)I was listening to the review in the car (XM-MSNBC) on the way to work this morning. Phil Lebeau had taken the car for a drive. He didn’t say exactly when the test drive was, maybe it was last week. He remarked the car will satisfy those who have wanted an electric car and have put down money for a LEAF. He also said there are several things Nissan will have to work on to improve it. It wasn’t the glowing review he did for the Volt. He also remarked he was the first to do a test drive in the states? Is that right? Actually I mis-spoke. It was WIND noise, not road noise that was high.
Maybe having the Volt test drives first have played to GM’s advantage. The Volt must have left a high bar impression that the LEAF might not reach.
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:50 am)Here’s my concern with how the Volt is advertised: GM really needs to find the right tone so that the car will have a general appeal for consumers. What I mean by this is that while the Prius has been a success to a degree, it has been forever branded as the car that “hippies drive”. Part of this was from the sort of sub-culture that developed around the car and that it was initially launched in primarily liberal cities. We own a 2002 Prius and almost all of my more conservative friends wouldn’t be caught dead in the things because as I mentioned before- the cars are seen as products only liberals would buy. I’ve always thought that mentality was stupid. It even seems that Toyota has accepted this characterization since all the ads you see for it are filmed in San Francisco with hip young couples holding up “Yes” signs.
So therein lies the opportunity for GM to market this car to the general masses and make it seem acceptable for people of all political stripes. Both for people who live in the sticks as well as city folks. I think it entirely possible to make technologically advanced cars seem cool again to the general public.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:50 am)Well said. In my presentation I will always be speaking in terms of “Total Range vs a pure electric vehicle. I have prepared oversized postcards to hand out to early inquirers that come in to the dealership, but I’m on vacation this week and can’t post images from my iPhone. I’ll post images when I get back.
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:52 am)What are you talking about? All this talk about competition. The competition is all in the press. There are no electric cars you can go and purchase right now. Just because you can drop $99 on the Leaf website does not mean you will get a Leaf before a Volt. And where are all these Chinese electric cars? In China? Not much use here are they? The electric outages are all during the daytime, during peak load hours. Charge at night like everyone else and you will have no problem. The electric companies are thrilled that they will soon be able to bill for electricity they are producing at night that is currently not getting consumed.
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:01 am)This ad is somewhat reminiscent of the ads Nissan used to prepare the public for the eventual introduction of the first Infiniti around 20 years ago. Both focused upon feeling and sense with no product visible. Those Infiniti ads were very dreamy and created expectations which became disappointments when the Q45 finally was unveiled, which happened at about the same time Toyota introduced the first Lexus. Sales for the Lexus took off, while Infiniti floundered. The actual car just didn’t fit the image those ads constructed in people’s minds.
The big difference between the Infiniti (and for that matter, Edsel) experience(s) and what GM is doing with the Volt is transparency. Both the Infiniti and the Edsel were hidden from public view up to their day of hitting the showroom floor – and both had styling aspects that had the same effect on the public as would a much praised blind date showing up with a mole on the tip of her nose.
The Volt won’t go through this kind of experience – everybody knows what it looks like, and now it’s time to tell its story. This ad is effective because it begins to do just that – tell the story of what the Volt is about. Smoothness and quiet power. And as there’s going to be so much more to tell, I have to say it’s getting pretty damn exciting to see it all unfold.
-3
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:05 am)Where in the world do you live?
Prius is just another car here in Minnesota.
Our market was diverse right from the beginning, there was no sense of “early adopter”. Getting it into the hands of a variety of owners right away prevented a sub-culture from ever establishing locally. In fact, that lack of physical presence is what help established online sharing… since we had to seek out others that were interested in aspects of the design itself.
Some of those earliest owners simply didn’t care. In fact, their motto was: JUST DRIVE IT
Who’s the target buyer for the first Volt purchases?
-1
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:09 am)It will probably show up on CNBC during the next few days. Phil Lebeau has done several test drives in various electric vehicles so he has a baseline. He’s very knowledgeable as well.
NIssan only has one “production intent” Leaf in the US and it was in San Diego last week, and Nissan was giving media test drives, so that’s probably where he did the test drive. He may well have had the first one. Interesting about the wind noise. Given that the Cd measures turbulence, and turbulence causes wind noise, the Leaf’s low Cd suggest low wind nose. I’d wonder if there was just a lot of cross winds or something but there weren’t any.
In a strange way the fact that EVs are inherently quiet means noise can be a problem. Because the engine isn’t providing a lot of white noise background all these noises previously not heard are now obvious. Just as one example, Andrew Farah said they had to use custom bushings because, without the engine, the standard bushings didn’t sufficiently dampen noise from the body.
+5
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:12 am)This ad did a *great* job of resurrecting the goose bumps from the test drive I had. KUDOS on that! The concern, of course is that there are very few people who can relate to the *experience* of driving a Volt, so any widespread effect is muted. The simple solution is getting more butts in the seats. GM should be sponsoring cross country trips, criss-crossing the USA north to south and east to west (and vice versa). I’ll guarantee GM that we here at gm-volt.com could field a team from every State to take a “leg” of those trips. I’ll bet that there are a few of us who would fly to a “release state” and film the trip back home with our new Volt (I’d love to see LEAF do that same promotion).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:17 am)Come on. You can’t possibly deny that the Prius most definitely has a strong liberal association. Yes- we drive one and I guess you could say that we probably lean a little more to the left. But the fact that South Park actually made an episode specifically about the Prius ( Remember the episode about “Smug clouds” coming over from San Francisco from Prius drivers?)
So my point was that if this happened with the Prius, perhaps it was because Toyota didn’t do a good enough job marketing the car.Maybe its because the Prius was the first of its kind and Toyota was being cautious. But now that the idea of partially electric cars has become more generally accepted therein lies the opportunity for GM to make this product more appealing to a broader consumer base. That’s all I’m saying.
-2
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:21 am)The Prius definitely has a demographic. I know this because I’m still looking for even a single Prius with a “John McCain” bumper sticker to balance out the 4,578 ones I’ve seen with a “Obama” bumper sticker. It may be that black doesn’t go well with the Prius colors but I’m thinking there is something else going on. (Who the heck came up with the idea of a black bumper sticker for a 72 year old candidate anyway?)
The Prius is the most popular car in my neighborhood, and the Prius is usually in the garage with a BMW or a Porshe. Of the Prius owners I’ve talked to, all are interested in the Leaf or the Volt, which seems consistent with Nissan’s claim that half those who have put down deposits on the Lead own a Prius. Another interesting observation is that none of the service people who come to the neighborhood to clean houses and so forth drive a Prius — they all drive a SUV.
+4
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:30 am)Yep, it appeared this morning less than an hour ago & here’s what LeBeau said about noise…
“So what did I not like about the LEAF?
“There is definitely a “tinny” whirring sound from the electric motor. It’s not loud, it’s not obnoxious, but you definitely notice it. It’s the same situation with wind noise. It’s noticeable, especially at higher speeds. Now, if you are talking with someone else in the car, or the radio is on, the wind noise and electric motor sound are not as prevalent. In fact, you don’t really notice them. Still, they are two issues Nissan needs to address.”
The complete article is at: http://www.cnbc.com/id/38223298
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:38 am)Another observation I’ve made about the Prius is that its clear most who own them don’t know the first thing about even general servicing when it comes to their cars. I went and bought spark plugs for ours a year ago. The guy at the service desk said that I was the first person to actually buy plugs for a Prius. Our car is a 2002. That’s pretty astounding. He gave me an equally puzzled look when I ordered a new serpentine belt 3 weeks ago.
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:39 am)#2
Amen. +1
“Show me the car!”
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:42 am)I found the test drive on CNBC. First of all this is a real test drive. He had the car for two hours, which is considerably longer than the half hour or less most of these reports are based on.
Overall he was impressed. Here’s a sample: Like all electric cars, the instant torque and acceleration immediately stand out. The LEAF zips in and out of traffic easily and actually makes maneuvering in congested areas less of a chore. On the highway, you can pass other cars with ease. The handling was better than I expected for a compact car. Is it the equivalent of a refined sports car? No. That said the handling and acceleration of the LEAF will more than please the first wave of buyers.
He did find fault in two areas. One was there was a very soft whine from the motor in some circumstances. This has been reported before and Nissan has said they’re working to fix this. A second issue was, as you mentioned, wind noise. Not sure what can be done about this. Wind noise is not so easy to fix at such a late stage. Here is what he had to say about these two problems:
There is definitely a “tinny” whirring sound from the electric motor. It’s not loud, it’s not obnoxious, but you definitely notice it. It’s the same situation with wind noise. It’s noticeable, especially at higher speeds. Now, if you are talking with someone else in the car, or the radio is on, the wind noise and electric motor sound are not as prevalent. In fact, you don’t really notice them. Still, they are two issues Nissan needs to address.
The whole review can be read/seen here: http://www.cnbc.com/id/38223298
-1
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:47 am)Thanks. Sorry for posting the same cite — didn’t see yours until after I had posted.
Note that he was impressed with the performance generally and in particular addressed your concern about passing speed by saying “on the highway you can pass other cars with ease.” I doubt the Volt will do any worse so it doesn’t seem like you need to worry about this.
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:57 am)Thanks for the link. Article is more detailed than the interview I heard.
I still think there is an issue. Maybe I’m over analyzing a little.
The feeling I got from him (LeBeau) is ” if you’ve always wanted an electric car, this will do fine.” That feels a little weak to me.
The Volt, and its reviews, seems to be trying to focus on those who have never really given it a thought. That’s two different types of people. And a potential market that’s MUCH bigger than the eager electric car crowd.
I am wondering if the LEAF issues will limit its real adoption to only those who pine for an electric car, while the Volt may be seen as a reasonable option to ANYONE wanting a new car.
Particularly when you factor in the “no backup engine” fear of a large part of the general public, and the Volt’s better battery warrantee.
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:05 am)So if GM and other manufacturers decide to advertise promoting the very quiet ride experience I gotta wonder what peoples reactions will be when they take a test drive and hear the artificial warning sound at low speed. I know the sound is not suppose to be heard easily from inside the cars, but I gotta believe there will be some funny looks on people’s faces when they hear the cars from the outside. I can picture the Salesperson explaining to the customers that the car has to have that noise so the blind, hard of hearing, bicyclists, and pedestrians not paying attention will notice the cars and stay out of their way. I agree with Tom M, that this legislation should not be rushed and more studies need to be done before adding more noise to the streets.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:10 am)And soon to be supplanted by the Volt.
The Prius has a deservedly loyal following. The Volt will have to sell quite a few more than GM has planned to get a significant number conquest sales. No doubt, soon Chevy dealers will find out just how well a used Prius sells and want GM to see how the Voltec translates to a non plugin hybrid.
As far as advertising goes, I’m curious about what the plugin Prius advertising will be.
It’s more fuel efficient? Not really, the Volt will travel 3 times farther without any gas.
It costs less to recharge? Um, it doesn’t go very far on electricity either.
It’s a Toyota? That’s nice, I guess, but for that reason alone, I won’t buy one.
It’s cheaper. Yup, that’s it! And it drives like it’s cheaper too! Maybe the Lexus version will drive nice but definitely will not be cheaper.
The Volt has a lot going for it. Everyone else is either countering it or playing catch up.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:13 am)INSPIRED BY THIS SITE:
… ISN’T IT?!!!
We have always been a very diverse group of fans, for one car.
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:18 am)Here’s a video of LeBeau’s Leaf test drive yesterday that adds some other interesting comments:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1543078667&play=1
[This video and the CNBC article today leave no doubt in my mind that TEST DRIVING the Volt (and the Leaf) will clearly demonstrate to prospective buyers the HUGE advantages and overall appeal the Volt offers vs the Leaf!]
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:19 am)AUGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, the Volt WON’T supplant the Prius, when it is defined as the “Left-mobile”:
As the print ad states, the Volt is a win regardless of such affinities.
Prius will be de-throned as the “Green Queen” (probably not right away, but it will happen). The Prius will quickly cease being “Red Hot in Hollywood” (even if the Volt gets help from the LEAF and other EVs).
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:24 am)Even THIS misses the point, darnit. If I want to zip down to Cape Kennedy from Detroit without stopping, I can do it in a Volt. So I have to stop at a few gas stations, just like any other car. From experience I can assure you there are several areas where it is harder to find a restroom than a gas station on that trip.
-1
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:27 am)Obviously there are a couple of issues. He said there were two, and that Nissan will have to address the motor whine and wind noise “over time”. I think we won’t see the motor whine in the production vehicles. Wind noise is hard to correct.
On the other hand, if you listen to the video the Volt doesn’t come off that well in comparison. At 1:55 he’s asked to compare the two. In response he says the drive is “very similar” but that the Volt “also has more of a sedan feel” (probably because the Lead sits higher). He then says that when he last drove the Volt the engine kicking on was disquieting since you go from very quiet to hearing an engine. I suspect the engineers have addressed this issue on the Volt — if indeed this was ever much of an issue — because people doing test drives now say the transition is virtually seamless.
But these are quibbles. Both cars seem like they’re going to provide a great ride. The determining factor will probably come down to price. Nissan has set a low price and is offering a very attractive lease. At this point we don’t have anything definite about Volt pricing.
As for whether the EV range will limit the Leaf, when you look at people’s experience the answer seems to be that a 100 mile range works fine for the vast majority of people. No doubt some won’t be able to deal with it, but it looks like range anxiety won’t turn out to be any big deal. In this regard, the chargers that the commentators think will be important are likely not to be important at all. From the mini-E study the current projection is that of the 1200 public chargers that are being installed in San Diego County, 700 of these will never be used. The general conclusion after a number of studies is that the parking space is more important than the charger. It’s just simpler and easier to charge at home rather than messing with a public charger, unless using the charger gets you a parking place near the door.
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:30 am)When DiSalle stated that “we’re still five months away from launch,” does that now mean that we won’t see the release of the Volt until mid-December? I’m hoping he just meant to say “four months” and got confused…
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:35 am)Don, your last sentence I quote above is EXTREMELY important….
ATTN ALL PUBLIC CHARGER PROVIDERS: “….It’s just simpler and easier to charge at home rather than messing with a public charger, unless using the charger gets you a parking place near the door.” Or, I might add, near the parking garage elevators, etc, etc, etc.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:37 am)GM’s TV advertising should provide plenty of real life testimonials from regular folks who are satisfied Volt customers (i.e., showing them lavishing praise on the Volt’s quiet smooth ride, its 40-mile AER, 2 cents a mile driving, the fact that they have to fill up only a few times per year, $7,500 rebate off the purchase price, convenience of charging at home, reducing America’s dependence on oil, etc).
Some of these testimonials could come from celebrities like Jay Leno, who have actually driven the Volt, and which could show them saying stuff like: “the Volt handled really great and the best thing about driving the it is that you didn’t have to worry about the range while you were driving” etc.
One of the challenges with making the general public feel comfortable with the Volt is to make them feel that EV’s are not just for latte-sipping lefty tree-hugger types, but are also great as well for beer-drinking macho guys who live in red states. Emphasizing the national security implications of mass adoption of EREV’s (i.e., energy independence) could get Republican types like John McCain on board.
I can’t get the image out of mind of a Volt TV commercial showing a contented Volt customer smiling as she drives by a gas station where a ICE driver is cursing out the high gas prices while filling up.
Sincerely, George, Sudbury, Canada…go Volt!!
-2
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:41 am)When you position a product it’s hard to have more than one message. Nissan has a very simple and direct message for the Leaf — it’s a zero emission vehicle. That’s it.
Now every message appeals to some groups more than others, so it’s difficult to have a focused message which avoids affiliations, particularly when there is a political attack on climate change and the selling point of the car is “zero emissions”. So no matter how dumb it may be, and no matter how many good reasons there may be to own a Leaf, I don’t think the Leaf is going to appeal to too many conservatives. IMHO.
GM hasn’t figured out how to position the Volt. The “Freedom Ride” was a stab in this direction but positioning the Volt as an EV without range anxiety is a loser IMHO since it’s a response to something rather than being a stand alone positive something. Originally I think GM intended to position the Volt as a green alternative — remember the ads for the Olympics? — but the Leaf “out greens” the Volt so GM will have to come up with something else.
If I were GM I’d explore messages relating to the advantages of the smooth ride and responsive handling. That message has broad appeal and, added to the absence of range anxiety, might prove very appealing, particularly to women.
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:52 am)Now there’s some advertising genius: “Volt … it keeps the funs flowing!”
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:52 am)Some People?
Some people want a high performance Electric drive for a reasonable price. Having a generator to backstop and keep the poor battery from frying due to excessive draw is nice. 100% Torque at 0rpm!
0-20 in how many seconds? Anyone? Anyone?
Guess I am the wrong audience. Oh well, not a single reason listed would get ME to purchase a car — oh wait, they aren’t for sale in MN.
Whats the point in advertising?
btw the Prius’s ive seen in MN fit the stereotypes. Same (backwards) with Large SUVs and king-cab style pickups — oh and Cavalier drivers too, that door rust is a fashion statement bud!
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:13 pm)Realizing that my priorities are not what they should be — but nevertheless are what they are — here’s what I want in order of importance. To advertise to me, sell me these things.
1. Super fun to drive aggressively.
2. Looks good inside and out.
3. Is quiet and comfortable.
4. Uses little or no gasoline.
5. Is reliable and safe.
7. Has low to no emissions.
8. Retains resale value.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:14 pm)no cars for sale in MN? seriously?? what do youpeople do..go out of state for a car? or do you walk a lot?
-3
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:20 pm)GM has been advertising the Volt for a while, it hasn’t just started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJqXY3h53H4
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:28 pm)There is not data on “peoples experience” except for a group of early adopter (read “zealots”) who can deal with range issues because using no gas is a #1 priority for them. The average Joe on the street cares about these things but not to the point of limiting mobility and freedom.
I predict that after the honeymoon is over, 100 mile range EVs will be mocked by the press and avoided by the general population.
There is a solution to this problem, it is called the Volt.
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:29 pm)Other newspaper coverage:
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/07/12/2010071200717.html
Article about President Obama attending the event for the new LG battery plant in Michigan.
The text includes the sentence “GM is pinning its hopes for recovery on the Volt.”
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:33 pm)Interestingly enough the mini-E drivers as a group didn’t appear to be early adopters. Nor were they zealots. If anything they were car aficionados. As for “dealing” with the range limitation, 1/3 found that range limitations provided so little problem they plugged in only once or twice a week. 1/2 found it no big deal. And the remaining 1/6 liked the thrill of pushing the envelope.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:40 pm)I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking this way. I would love to see a Volt commercial with a whole group of people doing the Electric Slide. Maybe they can get Marsha Griffiths to lead the dance.
+4
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:45 pm)HUH? Just the fact that they’d shell out >$800/month says early adopter AND zealot to me. You really “spun” the stats, DonC. How may of them had a second car to fall back on? JMO (too).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:49 pm)Maybe if GM can advertise the range as 40 miles between charges (short trips all or mostly battery) or 400 miles between fill ups (long trips with generator going) trips, it will be a simple description that the average customer will say “Oh, Now I get it. That’s pretty cool.) That might make everything else about how the car works fall into perspective.
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:49 pm)If they paid 600 per month for a limited range electric car with no backseat they are definitely a little out of the main stream and do not represent “people” as a whole. If they leased and drove the Mini-E, they were (by definition) early adopters. They adopted this type of car earlier than others normally would or could.
My only point was to state that these guys are not your average person. It would be like taking a religious poll at choir practice or a political poll at a political convention.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:50 pm)Thanks Tag, I think that clears it up better than my response.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:54 pm)Don’t forget a few things. The mini-e drivers pay $800 per month (oops, tag, you posted first). And BMW carefully chose those drivers. They weren’t selected from a cross of average drivers, like a credible pollster would.
Even after choosing a select few to match a certain demographic, by your own numbers, 1/2 of them found range to be a big deal.
But then again, this is BMW you’re talking about here. Not Chevy.
On the other hand…
by GM’s own numbers about 85% of all commuters will be able to benefit from a true 70 mile EV. When one gets built, I just might consider one (hint, it ain’t the leaf), but not above a Volt.
Jul 13th, 2010 (12:56 pm)LOL, anytime.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:01 pm)RE mini-e drivers
All of them. A backup was required or no car for you.
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:05 pm)Yeah, I know. Just trying to point out a notable omission of fact.
Thanks,
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:08 pm)That appears to be the direction of the video ad; and it is quite effective.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:13 pm)DonC. If I were GM I’d explore messages relating to the advantages of the smooth ride and responsive handling.
Ditto, but I thought that part is our job when we get them! Do you think GM will let any of us go hollywood in their ads?
+4
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:13 pm)Grumpy Dude, I am charging you with defamation character! LOL
. I am pro-volt, believe that it is THE technology for the times. You will not see me in a Leaf as I believe it is over priced for a straight BEV (compared to the proposed MiEV from Mitsubishi). And it is limited in capability.
My comments are very pro this technology. If you page back, you will see that I only question why people are getting all uptight about small volumes and GM should turn it on all the way. I mearly point out that GM is taking the correct approach with any launch of technology which leap frogs. Making sure it is right. I LOVE you and other early adopters. Early adoptors are the Lewis & Clarke. I simply prefer to sit back and wait for VOLT 3.0 or maybe 4.0 when the price should be lower and the performance greater. Dealers will be better trained for service and more locations will be available. People should not get worked up and whine about not getting a chance. I suspect everybody in Lyle’s community can purchase a VOLT in the first two years if they are will to travel and pay top dollar.
You are a scoundral should be put in the back of the line for lumping me in with the Trolls and Leaf lovers!
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:17 pm)The multi-pronged approach may be difficult, but is still desirable, IMHO.
We have a lot of divisive labeling in our country. We’ve seen that demonstrated here. What has been remarkable (here) is to see how many different points of view can arrive at the same conclusion: the Volt is a worthy undertaking.
Green: Volt.
Energy security: Volt.
Performance: Volt.
Supporting US industry: Volt.
Cool newness: Volt.
… and more …
Perhaps the message is the consensus.
I’d love to see this car embraced across demographics, and it has the potential to be.
Appealing to one “side” vs another would put GM at the mercy of the election cycle, the tides of fashion, unforeseen national and international events, etc.
Mind you, I wouldn’t mind seeing the far left and the far right get stuck with their old vehicular stereotypes, as the rest of the country moves forward into a new future.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:21 pm)I kinda had to laugh at the newswoman laughing. And one of them said you ‘charge the LEAF by plugging it into the cigarette lighter of your regular car’. lol.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:27 pm)I didn’t get that at all. I think you’re too close to see the ad as would the general public. It’s irrelevant to the general public. It’s an ad for us.
It only appeases the EV crowd, note the phrase “some people…”. GM is making the EV-1 better. Answering all of the questions posed when that car was around and offering a better solution.
Don’t you see how the Volt doesn’t follow anybody?
-2
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:32 pm)No doubt as a group they had more money than most. But the fact that $900/month is not a significant amount of money for your household doesn’t make you an early adopter or a zealot. Different concepts. Also please note this isn’t my conclusion. It’s the conclusion of the anthropologist who is doing the study. He’s the guy who went to their houses and interviewed them. I’m just repeating what he found.
-4
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:37 pm)Could be. But that would be hard to pull off. Not sure if anyone has managed to do it.
Just doing some quick word associations my key words for the Volt would be: “Clean”, “Smooth”, “Quiet”, and “Safe”. (Safe from the two “redundant” propulsion systems — the nasaman selling point.) You can probably see where this is going ….
FWIW I don’t think that many people are going to spend more money to buy a car based on the print ad. To me it confuses product features and benefits and doesn’t have a visual that supports anything on the laundry list of reasons. But hey, I’m not an advertising expert. I will add something else. If a company spends as much money on marketing as GM does for as long as it has spent it, and the result is consistently mediocre advertising, then the only explanation is consistently poor management.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:45 pm)Automotive News, June 28, page 1, “Chevy image isn’t as easy as apple pie”
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100628/RETAIL03/306289965
About “defining a new identity for gm’s top selling brand…”
-2
Jul 13th, 2010 (1:47 pm)SALES is the goal, not a trophy.
The vehicle sitting in your driveway is what makes a difference.
-2
Jul 13th, 2010 (2:01 pm)The plug-in feature will just be a package choice, targeted at about $4000. Minus the $3,117 tax credit, it’s not going to need any advertising. Owner endorsements will provide lots of promoting without Toyota having to do anything.
Of course, if you wanted to see something on television… wouldn’t it look exactly like the commercial above?
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (2:06 pm)Yawn….
I really didn’t want to know. Just answering a hypothetical question for an insignificant car for the US market.
Jul 13th, 2010 (2:29 pm)That’s a good teaser commercial alright. It’s kind of like advertising a movie that is going to come out 6-8 months in the future. Kind of an appetizer to whet your appetite for the more detailed TV commercials that come closer to the launch.
I like how they don’t even show what the Volt looks like. It makes it suspenseful for people that don’t know what all the fuss is about with the Volt. It makes them want to get on the internet, type “Chevy Volt” in Google and read about it on GM’s website or ask questions about it on blogs like this one. Some of the luxury and sports car TV commercials like BMW or Porsche focus on just one or two features of the car that really stand out. They make those features sound really special and unique.
The silence of the Volt at highway speeds is going to be great feature alright. You won’t hear the electric motor very much but the little that you do hear sounds like you’re cruising along in one of those land speeders in a Star Wars movie or something.
The Volt is going to be ELECTRIFYING alright. I hope GM is getting the very best marketing and advertising people in the world to work on the Volt rollout this November and for the next several years. This should be a challenge for the “Mad Men” advertising folks out there.
Hopefully, they’ll do a great job and GM will have BIG PROBLEMS in 2011. The good kind. Too much demand for the Volt. Having to deal with all the people who are upset because they can’t get a Volt at their dealership because they’re SOLD OUT and they have to be on a waiting list. I hope GM has contingency plans ready to go to ramp up their production quickly in 2011 if demand for the Volt goes way up.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (2:39 pm)Are you sure the plug-in will only cost $4000 more than a regular Prius? What’s your source for this?
-4
Jul 13th, 2010 (3:00 pm)Toyota has repeatedly stated that as a design target… which is why I’ve been such a nag about GM not placing cost as higher priority with their design/model configuration choice.
We naturally don’t know what the base package it will be part of or if that price leverages production ramp-up to bring costs down prior to the credit expiring. But nonetheless, the priority difference does make it easy to see why capacity is much smaller than Volt initially.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (3:47 pm)Your use of the phrase ‘people’s experience’ stretches the reality that this group was not randomly selected at all. They all realized they were getting into an adventure of sorts, and were willing to shell out rather large monthly payments to participate in it. Their experiences have big asterisks attached that cannot be denied, nor can it be said that Joe Consumer would have them as well.
-3
Jul 13th, 2010 (3:48 pm)Tired of my “too little, too slowly” reminders yet? It’s not like you can say I didn’t push hard to get a fellow plug-in to start pitching ball for the same team. I really tried to entice accelerated effort.
Anywho, tomorrow a friend of mine will be picking up a plug-in Prius for use over the next week. He’s a consumer like me, doesn’t work for Toyota, just has an extensive background in supporting the electrification effort.
He has already driven the PHV, accelerating hard up an interstate onramp without the engine kicking in. Got it all the way up to 65 MPH, in fact.
Real world experiences are changing the game… Will the plug-in model of Prius become an ally in this fight against traditional vehicle production or will Volt be going it alone?
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (4:23 pm)Where are you getting these numbers? It’s not even supposed to be released for sale until the 2012 model year. Where has Toyota ‘repeatedly’ stated the pricing targets? There is nothing on their web site.
Also, how is a regular consumer getting one to drive when Toyota is barely making a few for dog-n-pony shows? Maybe part of this testing? Do they have a project driveway?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/07/13/mb-toyota-hybrid-prius-test-manitoba.html
Inquiring minds want to know. A plug-in anything is good for Volt and interesting to Volt fans.
-3
Jul 13th, 2010 (4:49 pm)You’re just quibbling because you don’t like the results. If you actually look at what has happened it’s apparent that “range anxiety” is something you have before you have an EV. Ownership seems to cure the anxiety.
Yes the mini-E drivers were not “average”. The overwhelming number had very high family incomes. But who do you think the market for a Leaf or a Volt is going to be appreciably different? EVs are going to be relative expensive so people who buy them are going to have relatively high family incomes. Moreover, do you really think that because you have a higher family income your driving habits and preferences change? I don’t. I think the driving habits are fairly consistent.
In this regard, GM’s own data, which it’s had for a decade, suggests that range is not as big an issue as you seemingly think it is. EV-1 drivers had a choice of increasing their range by upgrading their battery pack. Almost none chose to do so. That may suggest something different to you but to me it indicates range was not that big of a deal for them. (Which may BTW be the reason Mark Reuss thinks EVs will outsell EREVs).
Finally, it’s interesting to note that you have nothing to back up your claim that range is a huge problem. On the one hand we have the experience of drivers going back about twenty years — on two continents (Europe and NA). OK. You think the data collection or sample or something is flawed. So the question becomes: Where are your studies? If you think that range is such an obstacle then it shouldn’t be very hard to prove. So where are the studies that prove this. IOW you don’t prove “B” by arguing that a study which shows “A” is flawed. You need evidence supporting “B”.
+3
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:12 pm)DonC , you like to argue.
On income, I live in the third richest county in the country in one of the nicer neighborhoods. People I talk to in my area are not going to put up with a limited range EV. Their lives are more important to them than saving gas. Many are skeptical in general of what we will do with all of the old batteries.
If GM thought range is not a big issue, why in the world did they put an engine in the Volt. They could have made a 100 mile EV cheaper than the Volt. I have heard them report many times that they think range is the issue.
On studies, of course we have no study that range is an issue. We are basing our opinion on common sense and simply pointing out that any study done on the select group of mini drivers is just about useless and should not be quoted. These people spent 900 per month knowing that the car was limited and they bought themselves early adopter status and that “I’m first” high. Of course most of them were happy with their decision.
If you offered 200 4 Ton 4 door pick up trucks that were damn near impossible to park, lousy in traffic, and had an 8mpg rating for fuel, they would all be picked up and purchased or leased and the buyers would be happy with them. The majority would find the truck acceptable. That sure as heck does not mean that this hypothetical truck is proven to be acceptable to most people.
The issue we are poking you with concerns polling and sampling of populations. The poll you are quoting would be considered useless in any sampling or statistics 101 course.
+5
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:14 pm)Range is but one problem associated with BEVs – and if you choose to be in denial of its potential importance to the average car buyer, then explain why BEVs have never become more than curious oddities in the consumer world of automobiles. Why that, in spite of their virtues, they haven’t caught on?
And by the way, I have no issue with the results as you claim to think. I just am not willing to project them onto the rest of the world as you seem to be ready to do. And yes – my sense is that range concerns will be a big roadblock to mass market success of expensive BEVs like the LEAF. I’ve seen no credible data or evidence that would suggest otherwise.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:34 pm)On topic,
I love the video of the silent driver flying down the road. It is the type of marketing that they need and many here are calling for.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:39 pm)AND you don’t disprove B by admitting A is flawed (lol). The study is just an excellent example of what you can do with a degree in anthropology – not much.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
-1
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:40 pm)Are you trying to pick a fight with me?
There was never the capacity at this site to do more than what has, in fact, been done (which is considerable depending on how you look at it); your never-ending chiding and nay-saying has accomplished nothing constructive towards the enabling of the Volt.
You can slather it on to inflate your own ego, but your years of negative posting speaks more loudly against you.
Just what do you claim to be enticing us to do? Raise an army? Take hostages? Give us all a break from your never-ending blather. A nice long break.
There. Is that what you “needed?”
If he’s a consumer like you, how can we trust anything he reports?
If you got your way, in your heart of hearts, the PHV Prius would be going it alone. Do you somehow think we don’t know that?
http://www.john1701a.com
-3
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:41 pm)Yes, you need go much past a bev. Buy Volt, it will get you past bev. Our oil products are best and safest and will always be available for you to use. Also safer than E-85. You are right in to say the Volt is better car. Your people need ability to go farthest than bev. Our oil products will relieve your “Range Anxiety” demons and will continue to for much long time.
Praise Allah and GM for the Volt.
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:42 pm)Close to OT:
New engine type gets some heavy duty investment:
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100712/CARNEWS/100719972
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:49 pm)A lot of debate about pure BEVs vs. EREVs.
First, let’s look at the facts about oil. The United States imports around 2/3 of the oil we consume. Oil consumption breaks down roughly as follows:
• 44% gasoline (mostly for passenger vehicles)
• 17% diesel (mostly for heavy duty long distance travel)
• 5% jet fuel
• 15% fuel oil (home heating and industrial)
• 19% other (petro-chemical, plastics, fertilizer, etc.)
So even if all passenger vehicles were pure BEVs, that wouldn’t even replace 1/2 of our current oil use, and we would be no where near energy independence.
Replacing diesel and jet fuel with electricity isn’t viable. You can’t power a plane or ship with batteries, and there is no battery technology on the horizon that can power an 18-wheel truck across the country. So to me, it’s obvious that any real solution for energy independence must include bio-fuels.
And if bio-fuels are required anyway, why not use them for the relatively small amount of gasoline consumption that isn’t covered by EREVs?
Using cellulosic gasification, up to 35% of our current gasoline consumption can be replaced, without any affect on our food supply. EREVs can replace up to 80% of gasoline consumption. Together, that’s 115%. In other words, the combination of EREVs and cellulosic gasification is more than enough to completely replace gasoline, all using our current infrastructure of 110 volt home outlets and liquid fuel filling stations.
Couple that with bio-diesel and jet fuel from algae, and you have a real solution for energy independence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxNeBQCRv1c
“If we took one tenth of the state of New Mexico and converted it into algae production, we could meet all the energy demands of the U.S.”
-3
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:54 pm)What about the FORUM ?
That’s a great resource which goes virtually unused.
Think about how a daily thread routinely has unrelated posts routinely inserted, making discussions tough to follow and content extremely difficult to find later. Think about how the activity on each topic ceases after just a day or two as well.
-5
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:56 pm)Keep silent INFIDEL!
Let those who intend to keep our oil products woven into their society be! They will be our perpetual source of sales and income that will help fund our cause. It is their choice to be for us.
Praise Allah and GM for the Volt.
+4
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:57 pm)So, by fleshing out the FORUM, we’ll somehow force GM to move past “too little, too slowly.” Please explain.
As someone who maintains an active and vigorous forum on his own site, I’m sure we’ll find germane any nugget of wisdom you care to impart on the subject.
Oh wait, you don’t have a forum on your web site! My mistake.
(I can hardly wait for this one)
Jul 13th, 2010 (5:58 pm)Or whoever you claim as Deity (though not for the “reasons” you gave).
+4
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:13 pm)LOL, well we already HAVE the army (of Voltiacs), and I know ONE person to avoid as a hostage (unless you’d keep John-boy at your place)…
Not much sense in rising to the bait that john-boy floats here daily. Barring an IP block by Lyle, john-boy is a bit like herpes….. .
I can see him sitting in the full light of the computer screen in his mom’s basement and yelling up to her that he got another reply (lol).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:19 pm)I’m glad you’re here to remind me of these facts, Doctor.
I think you have to admit that I go much farther into a thread before exploding at the High Priust these days (yes, Loboc, I’m gonna use “High Priust!”)
On whether or not to take John the Divine hostage, consider what GM might offer us for putting him out of his miserable existence … Do I hear 10K more Volts per year starting in 2011? Do I hear 20K? Hmmm. Maybe this is what John-boy was talking about all these years.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:20 pm)Toyota has been wringing out costs in the ten years since it was introduced. The initial development was a we have to do this project effort.
This could parallel GM’s Volt efforts. Anyhow, we’ll know for sure by 2020.
Zachary Taylor (Jackson) – Wipe the smoke rings and ash from around your ears, I think you may have blown your top.
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:26 pm)+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:27 pm)Admittedly, your patience has grown over the years. Maybe that’s why God invented john-boy… just a working theory. Though I like the premise of a contract by GM, methinks the price over values the target. A more accurate “price” might be one of Bob Lutz’ famous ties, or a stick of partially chewed bubblegum. Jeepers, you’ve pricked a mean streak in Moi.
“The sun is warm, the grass is green” (repeat) (g).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:29 pm)Uncontested.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
-5
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:32 pm)Do not fear as we will keep your country well fueled and range will be at your fingertips.
Your Volt products is best for all for your nation and countries. Keep our support with your great product. We will adopt it as our savior of our resources and forever shine upon your country with our oil producing nations.
All hail Muhammad of Islam! Long live the Volt!
Islam!
Volt!
Islam!
Volt!
ISLAM!!!
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:35 pm)May Muhammad of Ali extend a fist of friendship through an opening in your rectum.
… he can/could’ve borrow(ed) my time machine …
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:40 pm)Dude. I have much more hair than that!
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:43 pm)Jeffhre said:
Toyota has been wringing out costs in the ten years since (Prius) was introduced.
Since Prius is 10 year old technology, that seems about right. My question is when will Prius be able to completely disconnect the piston engine from the drive train, and let current technology do it’s thing?
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:47 pm)Only after a complete and unlikely re-engineering, which may or may not retain the “shoe” shape for brand recognition (sort of like the “New Beetle’s” passing resemblance to the original 1930′s Beetle; though the two are drastically different in every other respect).
-10
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:55 pm)(click to show comment)
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:59 pm)Zachary Taylor (Jackson) Said:
Only after a complete and unlikely re-engineering, which may or may not retain the “shoe” shape for brand recognition (sort of like the “New Beetle”)
Now that will be a sign of getting old, for me, when there’s a “New Prius” that parallels the “New Beetle”.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (6:59 pm)Uh oh folks, looks like the proverbial “slippery slope”. Back away from the thread…
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:01 pm)Hold on Buddy. I didn’t say “A” was flawed. He did and you do. I think it’s perfectly fine. And if you’ve noticed BMW thinks it’s fine too. The MegaCity car is more or less exactly what the mini-E study says affluent people want — a fun to drive car with good performance and a range of 100 miles (and a trunk). You have to assume before investing a billion dollars they have some confidence they’re making a car that people want.
As far as the mini-E study being “flawed”, the only objection on the table is that the mini-E drivers weren’t representative. If true so what? For the foreseeable future the only people who are going to be buying EVs are going to look like the mini-E lessees. In this sense the mini-E drivers (and the EV-1 drivers before them) are representative of the target demographic.
FWIW here just are some of the companies that think the current range of BEVs is acceptable: Ford, Nissan, Tesla, BMW, Daimler, and Volkswagen. I’m thinking that these folks have parsed the data and have come to some conclusions based on something. And which companies think you need EREV? Well GM and Fisker. And frankly I don’t think GM thinks BEVs won’t work with their current range, it’s just that they’ve taken a different path and it’s a bit late to change and there is an advantage in having a differentiated offering.
As far as the lead investigator having a degree in anthropology, you can make fun of the expertise but it’s a huge asset, when interviewing people on how they relate the the world, to be trained in how to do that. Interviewing people about how they perceive the world is what anthropologists do, which is why pharmaceutical companies hire them to figure out why certain groups are compliant and others aren’t. What would you do? Send out Joe the Plumber? (Or — shades of Steven Colbert — just form an opinion based on “your gut”
).
None of this is to say that EREV doesn’t have advantages. But it is to say that dismissing BEVs based on range is misguided. They will come. They will work. They will be simple. They will be durable. They will be quiet. They will be clean. And if they are cheap enough they will sell.
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:07 pm)Speaking of rejecting studies because you don’t like the message, a few months ago, much to the astonishment of many, I suggested that previous studies strongly suggested that the vast majority of the “sudden acceleration” cases in which Toyota drivers experienced unintended acceleration was going to turn out to be drivers pressing the A-pedal rather than the B-pedal. This seems to have turned out to be the case:
NEW YORK – The Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of black boxes in Toyota vehicles involved in accidents blamed on unintended acceleration, finding the throttles were open and the brakes were not engaged, the Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100713/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:22 pm)I may have missed one of the torticulous twists in this discussion, but I don’t THINK that I dismissed BEV’s. I’m rooting for them 100%! Do I think that EREVs are better at this point? Yep. But they aren’t mutually exclusive opinions.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:26 pm)The Volt and other EREVs will end up saving a lot more gas than pure BEVs.
And for the small amount of liquid fuels that EREVs require, bio-fuels are more than capable of filling that gap, plus the planes, boats, and 18-wheel trucks that batteries won’t address.
So the combination of EREVs and bio-fuels can eliminate foreign oil.
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:33 pm)I think 2 things will keep pure BEVs from ever going mainstream:
1) limited range and refilling options
2) cold weather issues
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:51 pm)Yes, well said, +1.
I have nothing aginst the brave souls who want to buy a pure BEV.
What really bothers me is the attitude of a few BEV proponents that try to bash EREVs.
I’m also mildly annoyed with the belief that EREVs are just a stepping stone to a world of pure BEVs. I believe EREVs and bio-fuels will be the mainstream long-term solution.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:52 pm)Normally you would think that but do you remember the advetising for the EV-1? Neither do I.
Take Care,
TED
Jul 13th, 2010 (7:55 pm)So if they can find a safe and quick method to charge and are able to solve battery chemistry related to cold weather, then your saying BEV’s will be the way to go.
I do not see either of these issues as show stoppers. Scientists will make discoveries and engineers will put them into practice. It really is just a matter of time.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:02 pm)In my opinion, the BEV is the ultimate end game. Someday, you will hear people laugh about how his/her dad owned a car that had this old clunky engine, generator, radiator, muffler, and various other ICE baggage.
For the price to reach the point of affordability for most, you just cannot justify the extra cost and penalties that the ICE introduces.
Simple, inexpensive, quiet, reliable, and AVAILABLE!
BTW: I like the idea of the EREV, and have no doubt it will have success. Its success will only help drive the success of automotive electrification.
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:04 pm)I guess your mildly annoyed with my prior posting than…
“Can’t we all just get along!”
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:18 pm)Yes, I suspect that the dreaded “EGO” gets involved sometimes – by both sets of proponents. I’m firmly seated in the “Let’s do everything we can, as soon as we can” camp. If for some reason, the battery tech *doesn’t* spurt ahead, we’ll still have the EREV on which we can continue to rely. As you mention, the EREV has the added advantage of using biofuels to reduce our foreign dependence. And if Coskata (sp?) does scale up well, we’ll even be reducing our landfills! Maybe someday we’ll have home recycling systems so that the garbage ALL goes into our cars.
I wish we could all just get along (g).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
/oops, sorry JEC. Just now saw that get along comment.
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:28 pm)” … of course, that was back before cars drove themselves. And they couldn’t fly, either!”
“Oh, Granddad; you’re pulling my web-linked auxiliary appendage.”
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:31 pm)Hey, I had EGOS for breakfast this morning. Very tasty with a little homemade strawberry jam.
I go either way….BEV/EREV. But I do believe the BEV will ultimately be the only one left standing. My question would be how long, and I do think it will likely be many years, and the EREV will be successful for quite some time.
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:32 pm)Just “virtually” (g).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:40 pm)Lol. I guess we will have to wait and see.
But, the one thing is that BEV’s are coming, and are not fiction. If a few hurdles can be overcome, I see no reason how the BEV would not become the winner. If, for some reason technological breakthroughs in battery chemistry comes to a stand still, then I would agree that EREVs will be the winner.
Do you believe that they will not double the capacity and halve the cost and halve the weight in 5 years or so? Or, that they cannot find a way to make quick charge easy, safe, and cost effective?
This is just my opinion and is based upon what I perceive as likely technological improvements and that the ICE will serve no purpose and has no reason to exist.
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:40 pm)There are potentially two on-board energy sources but only one propulsion system.
+4
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:44 pm)Well, that means that Ford, Nissan, Tesla, BMW, Daimler, Mitsu, Volkswagen and others are going to be making a big mistake in releasing BEVs. Or maybe, just maybe, the batteries are now ready for primetime and the infrastructure is coming on as well.
Or maybe, it’s way to help slumping auto sales recover in a big way! We’ll know soon enough!
GO EV!!!
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:46 pm)It’s always neat when we end up agreeing on things. Smoothing things over with qualifiers like “eventually” goes a LONG way toward finding common ground. (g). My *current* concern is focused more on getting the first year behind us (wheels on the road) and then getting *enough* wheels on the road in the years post 2011. The consensus at the Independence Day festivities was that things really will be ok.
I guess we just need to “stay tuned”.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
-1
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:51 pm)DAD! Get off my computer and come help fill these orders.
I just got 100 more falafel orders and I can’t make them all myself!!!
I see your conflict with EVs, let go of your anger for batteries. Join me and we will rule the falafel industry together as father & son!
By the way, the camels need feeding too!
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (8:58 pm)This is where E85 can compliment the EREV. Once GM comes out with VOLT 2.0 /E85 they should team up with the Ethanol Council to highlight that the combination will reduce oil consumption by about 90% versus current consumption. E85 is big in the Midwest, but has its drawbacks. In winter it is really E70 blend. It generally gets 25-30% less mpg than normal gas which may contain up to 10% Ethanol.
Semis and long haul trains will be along time from going anything more than 20% bio mix.
Planes — I remember good old Richard Branson posing with coconut drinks because they flew a Virgin Airliner on a test flight with one engine running on coconut oil. But as soon as the journalists drilled down into the technology and cost, it turns out it was a great publicity stunt, but will not be feasible in our lifetime.
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:11 pm)Are you serious about Tesla? For $100K+, It still won’t take you on a long road trip. Want to take Historic Route 66 from LA to Chicago? Better plan for about 23 days there and back. At best you get 250 miles and probably more like 210 miles, then need to recharge. You will have plenty of time to sight see. I would be nervous going through the desert. May need to stop even more often and do lots of planning. On the other hand, if you can afford the TESLA, you can probably afford taking a month off work….
I can see the Mitsubishi MiEV if it is really low cost, being a hit with the young crowd. It fits their lifestyle and pocket book. The others look like the cost is going to be too high for lack of capability. And then you will still need another oil burner to get you through the finer things in life… Such as taking Route 66 or the Pacific Coast Highway, etc. Good luck on those quick charge stations we here about!
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:26 pm)Dang, that Volt is hot! Think it would look even hotter in RED!
The Red Hot Chevrolet Volt!
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:47 pm)Yes, nice road! No traffic too, where did they find that??
That road would even be nice with a singing V12 behind the shoulders…
Jul 13th, 2010 (9:53 pm)Very well said sir, now how do go about making the conversion…
I want my affordable Volt! (In Red)
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:05 pm)“It’s Electrifying.”
I like that, nice touch.
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:08 pm)You may have a point. The first time I seem to really remember the EV-1 was when the leases were not being renewed and the car could not be purchased… and… as we know…. crushed.
The VOLT is the chance for GM to redeem themselves, apply what they learned then and know now.
Let’s hope GM advertising keeps building, this site keeps promoting, and GM builds to meet demand and we ALL can purchase a VOLT!
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:09 pm)I think when there will be enough Volts to sell, a multifaceted campaign would be worth pursuing. Kind of like Geico.
For example I kind of like Bling Bling the ICE Monkey, touting the virtues of the Volt.
Another theme would be a few lost pirates on the lost Pearl Supertanker…
Of course we would have Ed Bagly & Jay Leno hypermiling and doing burnouts…
Then for the intellectuals out there, our very own Lyle!
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:25 pm)I’m not going to disable it. I just happened to have a rock bounce at an unlucky angle and smash it.
That’s false. I have heard all sorts of claims about insurance companies trying to deny coverage. They can’t – if they could they’d deny liability in almost every case. For example, “Hey, you were speeding so we won’t cover you.” Or the biggie “You were driving drunk, we won’t cover you.” Lawmakers knew this going in so insurance companies hands are tied once an event occurs. What they can do is jack rates up afterwords. Many states won’t even let them deny auto coverage since it is mandatory to drive and they place an upper cap on how much they can charge.
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:28 pm)I don’t believe this to be the case. A battery 2.5 times the size of the Volt’s would cost many thousands of dollars more than the Volt’s. On the other hand, with years of manufacturing experience, a 4-cyl, naturally aspirated gasoline engine adapted from a design already in production *can’t* cost all that much. How much does a crate motor cost for an econobox? Even adding the generator, fuel, cooling and exhaust systems wouldn’t drive the costs of the range extender to equal a huge, 100 mile battery. IMHO.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:51 pm)When my brother bought a Prius I asked him “how hard was it to get the adhesive off when you took the sticker off?”
“Huh?”
“You know, the Obama rainbow that they put on the cars at the factory right after the paint job.”
“Smartass…”
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:51 pm)The end game is to sell more cars and stay in business for a long time. Whether the cars are powered by gas, electricity, corn or piss, it doesn’t matter to shareholders and corporate founders. If China has the largest number of buyers and they all want Hummers well that’s what they’re going to get. In NYC cars are dumb so we use the subway.
Argue all you want about the stupid stuff. We live in a country that cares and shares so much of what we have. The Volt is one of them. I live in the US and want our citizens to be proud and supportive of our products. When the relevant cars are built in the US for our benefit we buy them. Buying imports is a good way to prove a point but the end game is to keep us, not the Eastern Asians, or Europeans or South Americans, working.
The Volt is the first relevant car to be designed, built and sold in America in a long, long time. I don’t know of any economy car that we built here and sold overseas, ever.
So go ahead, talk your Prius, Leaf, Megacity or whatever talk and go hug a tree.
The Volt is a pretty good start of creating a line of vehicles that can show the world that we can still demonstrate a little bit of hard earned ingenuity.
Whatever the advertising says, just remember, is it the media or is it us buying the real thing.
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:53 pm)Oh, and my brother lived in San Fransisco for 15 years, but lives out by Livermore now.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (10:59 pm)Jeez, I can’t make it all the way through your post noticing even more stereotype parallels….
My brother has a Prius, a Audi A6 and a Carrera S.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:04 pm)The F250/F350 diesel pickups are the opposite end of the spectrum. I’ve been truly amazed at what I’ve been able to get in stock. I’ve gone looking for some rather rare parts and they still seem to have them in the back at the parts store.
I’m sure it helps that Ford built several million of each generation, they last forever and are owned by people who do all of their own maintenance.
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:10 pm)Tagamet always has a way with the words. It’s like he’s a professional at dealing with people of a questionable mental state
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:16 pm)Making the Toyota Prius a gas guzzler.
12,000 to 15,000 gas free miles a year.
Chevrolet Volt.
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:31 pm)I think they will have no problem here. I can’t see GM being shunned by conservatives in this country. All they gotta do is advertise oil independence and boom. American Engineered, American Made, Saving America. Chevrolet Volt
+1
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:32 pm)Cutting and pasting the same post over and over again each day is trollish.
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:52 pm)Oh do I have some very good material related to Abdullah Hassan Al Aseery….
But I’ll heed your request.
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:54 pm)You going to advertise it in states that don’t sell it?? May want to wait till the dealerships can order…
+2
Jul 13th, 2010 (11:57 pm)I only buy it if the black box uses independent means to gather data. Since the black box is inside the PCM, it could mean that the black box recorded the same erroneous inputs that the PCM relied on.
Jul 14th, 2010 (12:56 am)Exactly!
Actually the Event Data Recorder is housed within the airbag control module. It constantly eavesdrops on network traffic, and cherry picks precise parameters into a cyclical buffer. If an airbag deployment (or “near” event on some cars) takes place, it locks this data up in a non-volatile area of memory using an encryption scheme. Typically there is only a few seconds of vehicle data, but usually enough to ascertain what was going on with the vehicle or the way it was being operated. This data is usually used to corroborate a traditional reconstruction.
An aftermarket tool (yes independent such as the Bosch CDR) is generally necessary to reliably harvest the data and create a usable event file that has proven (again through independent study) to be empirically accurate and highly reliable. (There are proprietary OEM tools that can do this as well of course) Toyota has been bucking this for years, often stating that they did not use EDRs, but the courts and senate hearings have flushed out the truth.
So the link in DonC’s post is somewhat suspect in it’s reporting as they continue to use the term “throttle position” (usually meaning AT the throttle body) as opposed to “accelerator position” (at the pedal) as of course they are 2 very different things. (input vs. output) And in any case just because the engine control unit is reporting it was “observing” 100% (TP or APP) doesn’t necessarily mean it was actually being requested by the operator. An electrical problem in the accelerator pedal position or even a software issue, might show the exact same thing in the recorded event file.
More study of those event files and careful vehicle autopsy from which they were extracted, is certainly required.
WopOnTour
+1
Jul 14th, 2010 (1:21 am)Thanks, I try. And yes, three and half decades working with people of significant challenges is pretty good experience. That AND I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
THANKS!
I think Lyle rewarded you/us by posting an EXCITING late night post! Check it out!.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 14th, 2010 (10:15 am)Gasp, 1/10 of New Mexico is HUGE! I can’t picture the infrastructure. WoW! Thats a LoT of tanks. Where will all the water come from? no.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/debunking-myths-about-nuclear-fuel-coal-wind-solar-4
Jul 15th, 2010 (5:17 pm)This is the lamest commercial ever. Are they seriously going to sell this thing on how quiet it is? Where is the sexy, commercial that shows the car driving with a handsome 30 something man driving it?
Examples of way better car commercials:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLm4LHd02E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zq0xW4aCEE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6PSnzRnUxY
This is so sad, GM is going to screw up their advertising like they did with the EV-1. Such a waste! GM we are counting on you to make this work, and lame commercials that don’t even drive home the best points about your product, or even show the product for that matter, are not going to cut it! Get your act together!!!! THE TIME IS NOW!!!!
-1
Jul 16th, 2010 (12:52 pm)Now that someone mention the EV-1, I believe that GM should revive that famous ad and use the same “script” of the electrical appliances coming out to meet the Volt on the driveway, as if they were expecting their biggest “brother” arriving.