With the launch of the Volt nearly upon us, GM has finally provided some detail as to how they plan to go about the rollout process, and how some of the luckier and wealthier among us might be able to go about getting one.
The information was provided by GM’s Volt marketing director Tony DiSalle in a webcast in which he took reader’s questions.
He explained GM will produce 10,000 Volts from the end of this year through the end of next calendar year, and that they will produce 30,000 Volts in the 2012 calendar year. He noted that GM has been electronically communicating with every Chevrolet dealer across the nation what their Volt allocation will be and asked them if they wish to sell Volts and/or service them. Specific requirements for these dealers will not formidable and will include having personnel trained in Volts sales and Volt service, an the installation of two 240 Volt chargers.
He also explained those dealers will have to keep one Volt on the premises for demonstration and test drive purposes. He said he anticipates the car will be “very hot” and that dealers may not be able to keep any in inventory.
He said specifically GM will not maintain a centralized waiting list, and in personal communication with me said the long-lived GM-Volt want list will not be used in any way, that instead they will be “going through their dealer body.”
To get a Volt, DiSalle is recommending people “to go see the dealers.”
A given dealer’s allocation number will be based on that dealership’s regular sales volumes, so that busier dealers will get more Volts and smaller dealerships few if any. GM is then asking the dealers to reply back as to whether they want that allocation.
DiSalle expects most “medium and large volume dealerships will participate.”
He also expects that dealers outside of the launch markets will agree to service training, to help customers who might need service while driving away from home.
DiSalle is encouraging participating dealers to start their own waiting lists, and interested customers to get themselves on them. Placing a deposit is not necessary he says.
“The (dealers) can build their waitlists in conjunction with their particular allocation,” said DiSalle. “Deposits are not requirement of getting on dealers waitlist.”
The states of California and Michigan, and the cities of Washington DC, Austin Texas and New York will start receiving Volt deliveries “by the end of this calendar year,” said DiSalle. He declined to confirm the November (or sooner) delivery date.
By mid-2011 the entire states of New York, Texas, New Jersey, and Connecticut will be getting Volt deliveries. From there, GM will continue to announce new launch regions until finally all areas of the nation have Volts for sale.
“We’ll be adding markets halfway through the 2011 calendar year as we are getting into the 2012 model year,” said DiSalle.”We have very intention of selling in 12 to 18 months in all 50 states.” By the time all states have allocation it will be into the second calendar year of production beyond the first 10,000 units.
DiSalle believes all the initial Volt allocations will sell out “very very quickly.”
“We do have estimates for demand,” said DiSalle. “This is a movement that we are trying to create here.”
“It will require continued investment and communication,” he said. “We’ll continue to market the car, we understand we’ll be short early.”
Like it or not, at least now we know what to expect. What is your opinion?
Full Video Webcast:
This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 7th, 2010 at 6:13 am and is filed under Dealers, Launch, Marketing. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+32
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:21 am)So, GM knows that they will sell out, they are steadfast in not producing product to meet demand?
I have never seen another product or manufacture handle a new product introduction this this way …
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:27 am)“It will require continued investment and communication,” he said. “We’ll continue to market the car, we understand we’ll be short early.”
This may explain the slow ramp up, but I am still very curious about any additional costs. Waiting is hard. But I AM on the local dealer’s list.
+40
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:31 am)The announcement basically divides the country into winners and losers.
Those of us who are losers can congratulate the winners — and we do.
I hope Volt proves to be a great car for each of you who gets one.
For the rest of us, I think Mr. DiSalle is basically saying, forget the Volt, move on with your lives on some other track. So, there not being a choice about it, we will.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:32 am)But we’re talking about oil independence here!
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:32 am)While I feel this is BS, it’s par for the course. Big markets and big dealers will get it 1st. Unfortunately, by the time it hits my market, there will be tons of competition and GM won’t be a no brainer anymore.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:33 am)I’m wondering when GM will start manufacturing the E-85 version… 2012 model year?
+30
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:41 am)Good to see they’ll be utilizing the want list…basically saying “good luck” to 53k committed buyers.
And some people wondered why GM needed government funding….
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:44 am)So, all the hype and BS about signing up for a “waiting list” or “want list” a few years ago was just a lot of smoke and mirrors. Those of us that have been following the Volts development these past few years are basically being tossed into the chum barrel with everyone else.
GM has been blowing smoke up everyone’s butt since the first Volt went into production. It was suppose to be a cheap (approximately $20K) affordable car. It is now ballooning to nearly $40K.
GM makes it very hard to remain brand loyal.
From a C5 Corvette and Pontiac Torrent owner.
+8
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:44 am)One additional thing about this announcement (and it is significant) is that each dealer must have one Volt as a demo unit. This will reduce the number of units available to customers, but it will contribute significantly to the exposure of the car to the public. Also, it means that there will be a supply of “used cars” eventually. Also, question for Lyle, are all of these demo units “production units” or will some of them be from the pool of preproduction units?
Also, GM continues to demonstrate that they REALLY pay attention to the good ideas presented on this web site. Again, kudo’s to Lyle and to everybody here that offers positive input. Thanks so much to all contributors. You have affected me if nothing else.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:45 am)Imagine if the government had said they’re going to do a calculated roll-out of national health-care, starting in 5 states.
+27
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:45 am)GM better start ramping up production now. The Leaf will take away a ton of market share and you can be sure that Toyota-Tesla, Honda, Hundai and Mitsubishi will offer clones within a year or two. GM has a golden chance to jump out in front, but it looks as if old school thinking is clouding their judgement.
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:46 am)I am beginning to believe that GM thinks that 30k in 2012 is the market demand. In a backwards sort of way I think this is good news. In order for the demand to be that low, the price will be higher than expected by many, i.e. base model in $37k to $40k range. This means that the Volt may actually be profitable, instead of a loss leader. GM needs profitability now.
+20
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:46 am)Please look up a company called Nintendo. They are famous for this strategy.
+8
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:48 am)This is just the beginning…. 40,000 Volts over the next two and a half years is not THAT bad…..I think the floodgates will open when: (A) GM has experience with a few years of real world / real people “using and abusing” the new technology. Ordinary people have a way of devising all kinds of insane tortures to put a product through that logically thinking engineers would never dream of. (B) When the competition “catches up” and starts selling their own versions of the Volt. It’s all good.
+19
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:53 am)It sucks!
I can understand why GM would only produce a small number of the 2011 model. They have to ramp up the production line, and this can take up to a year to do properly.
But GM originally said they would produce 60,000 model 2012 Volts, and they have given no valid reason why they’re not going to do this.
I’m starting to agree with others when they say “over-promise and under-deliver”.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:59 am)I don’t think so. They acknowledge demand will probably be much higher with statements like:
“He said he anticipates the car will be “very hot” and that dealers may not be able to keep any in inventory.”
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:03 am)Let’s hope so. If the Volt had real competition, I’m sure they would produce more than 30,000 in 2012.
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:09 am)The gm volt dot com waiting list may have kept the Malibu mule test car alive during GM’s lean restructuring period.
I first found this site when the list had about 6000 email addresses on it. I didn’t sign on at that time. Because I was concerned that GM would not want to produce the Volt. And that if they did, it may have quality issues. After following the early designing. And seeing the care being placed on the car. My email address was entered as number 10576 on the list.
The combined voices of the many thousands here on this list are enabling GM to believe in the electric Volt.
=D-Volt
+18
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:11 am)I think this is really what we all expected. Still it’s disappointing to hear it officially. The strange thing is we’ve been hearing how GM “has the ability” to increase production to meet demand. Yet they are only making 40,000 volts in the next 2 1/2 years.
Personally I think if they did a nationwide rollout they would sell 40,000 in the first month. What do you guys think?
Either they don’t have the ability to make more or they really do want the demand to completely outstrip supply and create the “Nintendo effect” as Texas pointed out.
As one of the original people here to sign up three years ago, it’s a little disappointing although I figured this was the case from all the recent developments and news.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:12 am)GM mentioned this possibility a while ago, but nothing since.
It may take a federal mandate. Foreign car makers don’t make that many FlexFuel cars. American car companies want to compete, and $100 on the profit margin does affect things. A FlexFuel mandate for all new cars would create a level playing field. And this was one of Obama’s campaign promises:
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/factsheet_energy_speech_080308.pdf
“Mandate All New Vehicles are Flexible Fuel Vehicles. Sustainably‐produced biofuels can create jobs, protect the environment and help end oil addiction – but only if Americans drive cars that will take such fuels. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will work with Congress and auto companies to ensure that all new vehicles have FFV capability – the capability by the end of his first term in office.”
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:12 am)The whole roll-out thing is becoming increasingly irritating. It does not look like it will ever be possible to buy one except in a few specialised markets in USA. What about the rest of the world?
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:13 am)John, the demo should be a perfect car, and immaculate.. not a sloppy pre-production model.
I would like to know how this actually works.. will the dealer keep that demo available for a few weeks or a year?.. how insistent is GM that they keep a demo?.. what are the penalties otherwise?.. I would think it would be to the dealers advantage (and at their expense) to keep a demo always available, this will bring traffic into their showrooms and then you tell your coworkers how nice the new GM lineup is.
Hopefully the dealers will be smart about it..Having to retain one of their 8 car allocation Volts as a demo will be a painful experience.. so when you go in to see the Volt be nice and polite.. dont start screaming NPNS and dont even mention about the EV-1.. and no disparaging the Cruze either
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:15 am)really, Money Pit? a couple recent ones come to mind. Nintendo Wii (and wii fit plus) and Apple iPhone. Artificial shortage = increased demand.
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:16 am)Again, I think the manufacturing engineers need up to a year to ramp up the production rate properly. We don’t want any lemons.
So I understand the 2011 production numbers. This makes sense.
But there’s no excuse for 30,000 in the second year. GM hasn’t given any good reason for that, and this really bothers me.
+9
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:17 am)What’s sad about the quantity of Volts is that GM will be a has been in the electric car market by the time they are able to satisfy demand. People will be pissed off, price gouging will be rampant for months and customers will be so frustrated they’ll turn to the first viable alternative vehicle.
If Sony rolled out the Playstation game console in this manner, it would never have become the dominate player in the world.
I think GM is being absolutely ridiculous. If you want to capture the market, dazzle the stockholders and boost your bottom line, you make all the product the market can handle. I get an uneasy feeling that GM executives or accountants want neither.
+10
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:21 am)Or they dont want to recall 30,000 cars.. imagine if they had to replace 30,000 battery packs due to fire hazards.. there would be 30,000 owners with idle unusable cars waiting 1-2 years for production of replacement packs to catch up. Can you imagine the screaming and bad publicity?
Yes I know of all the testing, but still it would only take one fire and a swarm of lawyers to do it. You cant blame GM for being cautious with the roll out.
GM may also lose money on this generation, so why would they rush to increase production.. what is the benefit?
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:22 am)Already, a week later, this video is old. The color choices have been expanded to include yellow.
This is an interesting car and I think I will try getting one sometime in 2011. It’s like the lottery. Ya gotta play to win!
The good thing is that I’m not desperate for this or any car. I plan ahead so that I’m not driving junk like in my youth.
To us, it seems like they are repeating the same thing over-and over. In reality, there are constantly new people seeing this car for the first time. The education of Joe Six-Pack about the electric car movement will take some time.
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:26 am)DiSalle on why the dealers will have demo units in the showroom at all times:
“There is no better way to market and sell the Volt than to put people in it”
Really Tony? How about making more of them! I think that would be a better way to sell more Volts!
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:27 am)Slow initial rollout for a new model with new technology with high manufacturing costs is a solid risk mitigation strategy, especially in this market and with the many unknowns involved. GM didn’t promise everyone would get one in the first year. They promised they’d make it available, period. Believe me, when & if they see they can make a profit on these production will be ramped. It will take years despite the enthusiasm of the first few.
I don’t worry about the Leaf because I know I (and almost everyone I know) could never consider it as a primary vehicle due to 100 mile range and long recharge times. You can’t drive it accross most states in a day. Classic niche vehicle. The Volt is a different story yet still allows full electric driving on the majority of commutes.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:29 am)http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/07/autos/volt_production/index.htm
CNN has an article this morning about the pathetic number of Volt vehicles to be produced, titled: “Chevy Volt coming… Good luck getting one”
This is the most telling I feel:
“GM plans to build only 10,000 Volts in 2011.That works out to a selling rate of, at the most, about 835 Volts a month. GM currently sells more Cadillac Escalades than that and it’s a fraction of the sales for a popular model like the Chevrolet Malibu, of which GM sold 21,000 last month.”
My take, they are building only enough volts to match the SUV penalty for corporate MPG. Also they will make each and every month enough Malibus to equal more than the first 17 months of Volt production.
GM doesn’t want the Volt, actions speak louder than words!
Is it just me, but GM’s Volt marketing director Tony DiSalle looks like the typical salesman that would say, BUY A SUV, only sissy’s would want a Volt!
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:35 am)OK, I understand the reasoning behind the following statement;
“A given dealer’s allocation number will be based on that dealership’s regular sales volumes, so that busier dealers will get more Volts and smaller dealerships
few if any.”
But we, the buying public, who want to buy a Volt, don’t know “dealership’s regular sales volumes”. It would be smart of GM to supply a list of dealers and sales volumes or a list of dealers by Volt allocation number. I don’t want to waste time locating a dealer with Volts for Sale. Come on GM give us a break, we’re only trying to help.
126 Days and counting!
NPNS!
+8
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:38 am)My biggest disappointment is the fact that the Mid-West is totally ignored. I realize that Michigan is included in the roll-out, but geez, is there no one beyond me that is interested in the Chicagoland area? I’m not sure that driving/flying to Michigan is realistic to obtain a Volt. I will need a new vehicle next year and it may be that Chevrolet lost a Volt customer.
I just cannot believe that Chevrolet will under produce in 2011 if the demand is there. If they do they are shooting themselves in the foot…
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:43 am)I think they are being realistic, just because you have the demand, it doesn’t mean you have the capability to produce to meet it. If you hurry things to do so you risk (with a high probability) of turning out an inferior product that will cause demand to disappear.
I understand the approach.
*goes off to call all the Chevy Dealers in the DC area*
+8
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:48 am)This is a tough one.
On the one hand, many of the disappointed ones on this website see the hand of the ‘old’ GM still clinging to some rather failed strategies.
Optimists see a ‘cautious’ new GM that wants to get it right.
Seems to me, looking at it from an optimist’s viewpoint admittedly, that GM’s talk about Gen II and Gen III within a couple of years of this(late) Fall’s rollout suggests(and I pretend to be no expert at this) that the truly mass-produced car they want to see rolling on America’s highways and byways is an ‘advanced’ Volt, and not their first effort.
However, since it can be challenging if not impossible to get inside the mind(s) of a bureaucracy, optimism must always be served with a side order of caution.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:57 am)John K #9 said: One additional thing about this announcement (and it is significant) is that each dealer must have one Volt as a demo unit.
The only thing shoppers will not be able to experience from a demo, is the one reason they will buy it, even if the cup holders are too small, or the seats are too hard. “I hear most people who buy this car use very little gas over time.” If people can’t buy it, they can’t make those reports.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:00 am)I think this is poorly thought out. They’re just throwing it to the wolves as far as I can see. Seems kind of dumb to restrict the delivery to certain geographic areas, which I think they had a purpose for, but then just turn over the distribution to the local dealers. Why would a local dealer care where a buyer lives when he sells the things? They’ll sell it to whomever has the money ( I expect considerable over list price pricing) and anyone, regardless of where they actually live can get in line. So a person that lives in northeastern Tennessee can get on a list and get a Volt, which kind of defeats the purpose of limiting the geographic distribution, doesn’t it?
The other thing that bugs me is I would think they would want to make sure that the first group of these sold would be sold to people who are most likely to be successful with them. You would think they’d want to sell them to people who would maximize the under 40 mile range on a daily basis. They don’t appear to care about that with this approach.
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:03 am)Maybe GM does not have the capital to build higher volumes. The banks are reluctant to provide the 5 billion GM is seeking.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:05 am)Strange. On one hand, I never liked having posted so much for those here to push for more. On the other hand, there is some regret for not having strived for an even harder push. Having been through this supply/demand game before, it was easy to see what was to come and that the tone of that stance would not be liked. Yet, the outcome is unfolding as foreseen. Had to try. What happens now? What are the next steps? Any ideas?
+12
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:07 am)Looking it things from a GM perspective, Gen II and Gen III will retain the Volt name, will retain the flavor of Volt body styling, will retain the ipod-like display, and will cut the battery capacity by a factor of 10 or more. You can still plug it in, if that makes you happy, and GM can promote the great improvement made in diminishing the charging time (smile).
That way Gen II and Gen III will be much cheaper to manufacture, the car still can be the top of the line Cruze, and gm’s thinking will be that people in Iowa and Nebraska and Georgia will never know the difference. That is, the real Volt will be Gen 1. After that it will be cheap knock-offs, I imagine. This is the gm way, and they have not changed.
I think the Volt gen1 cars will be great, but also the end of the breed. For those of us in loser-land, we are going to have to find our car someplace else. Maybe Fisker, maybe BME, maybe Ford or Nissan, but some other manufacturer.
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:08 am)“A given dealer’s allocation number will be based on that dealership’s regular sales volumes, so that busier dealers will get more Volts and smaller dealerships
few if any.”
I can’t see how this will stimulate sales to people who have stopped buying or never bought GM products.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:15 am)Just wait till China starts to produce cars,
+17
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:16 am)I have a feeling it will be just like my 2006 Honda Insight. The Corporation elects to sell as few low profit items as they can to maintain the overall profitability of the company. GM would much rather sell you a big a$$ SUV and make the big bucks. Just like Honda would rather sell you a Honda Civic or Accord which they can build in 6-7000 dollars of profit instead of a Honda Insight they only make a couple hundred dollars on. The secret of course is to claim low sales but the reality is not make many available. When I bought my 2006 Insight there were only 4 for sale in the State of Florida. You can only guess how many Civics or Accords there were for sale. My closest dealer with one available was two hours drive.
This time I will fly 6 hours and drive two hours to make sure I get a Volt. It is up to you. What are you willing to do for a Klondike Bar.
Take Care,
TED
+17
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:30 am)“GM will produce 10,000 Volts…”
So that would be 10 kiloVolts, right?
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:32 am)They already have – and they produced a pure BEV vehicle two years ago. It failed miserably as they recorded less than 100 sales for the first full year and the Chinese Government bought 50+ of those.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:34 am)That would be intelligent, therefore not something our govt would do. Work out the bugs with a small group? Nah, screw it up with everybody.
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:41 am)(click to show comment)
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:43 am)(click to show comment)
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:45 am)What I’d like to know:
which dealer do I go to to possibly get one?
The Austin area has so many Chevy dealers, which one is the one that will get them first?
My time is expensive, and I can’t be running around to 10 area dealers, and perhaps get signed up for one, by a dealer that isn’t going to get the early cars. Secondly, GM ought to take a lesson from Apple or the software industry that has handled launches like this: Pre-orders. I don’t mean going down to the dealer with crisp bills and expecting them to hold one if they get one in.
I’m talking about taking a sizable down payment, and ensuring that folks get cars on the vehicles launch. If GM can meet my wage requirements, I’ll show em how it’s done…
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:48 am)AGREE AGREE AGREE.
A slow ramp up means others will have a chance to enter the market.
Many will be foreign with dollars and jobs leaving the country again.
GM has a golden opportunity to build to demand and create a loyal following for an exciting new technology. Folks will not wait forever especially if other ER BEVs come on line.
Let us hope GM knows what they are doing. ( if this decision is by a typical committee that is a bad sign.. I have had experience with a “GM committee” process and I believe it was one of the reasons GM went into bankruptcy )
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:48 am)I wonder if this statement is the real key in all of this. Think like an executive for a moment. What headline do you want to read on the front page of your favorite business publication?
“Volt Sales Projections surpassed in one week” and “Volt factory ramping up to meet demand” and “GM thrilled with Volt sales numbers” and “GM green lights other Voltec models”
or….
“Volt misses lofty sales projections by 100,000 cars” and “GM overly-optimistic as usual with Volt” and “200,000 Volts recalled on unforeseen quality flaw”
It’s hard when we don’t know the big picture. Now back to the rants.
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:56 am)Its done with the video game consoles market. Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft control their production to inflate demand and create false shortages.
+23
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:56 am)OK, here is my take on this:
1. GM is going to lose money on every Volt sold in the first model year.
2. They are worried about the “big problem” that did not show itself during testing.
3. There are simply not enough battery packs available right now.
4. The bigger the corporation, the more fear there is to put their jobs on the line.
So they are going to do this slow and easy. For the 2011 model year, I can understand this.
If these are their real problems, then what I don’t understand is why they are choosing to sell these cars to people that are not really good candidates as beta testers. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people right here that have the qualifications to put these cars through proper procedures and give back quality reports. They understand the risks and would be willing to put up with the growing pains for this new technology. IMHO, this is the proper way to ramp up, if you are not sure the technology is ready for prime time. Instead, GM is selling to movie stars and politicians, groups not really known for their patience and understanding. That could prove to be a real problem for GM, if there is some unforeseen problem that appears several months after delivery. I just think that their target market for the first 10K units is wrong. I can’t be more plain than that…..
For the 2012 model year, it is the cut in production from the announced 60K units to 30K units that is the most troubling to me. The new battery plant should be up and running, so there is a steady supply of battery packs. So why such a low production volume? But they continue to make contradictory statements.
I think what bothers most of us here is that GM seems absolutely determined not to tell us why they are making these decisions, which leaves us to speculate. And speculation usually leads to negative comments and conspiracy theories, again, which is not good for the image of GM.
I have been to my local Chevy dealership three times now. The first time, I was fluffed off. The second time, the general manager took my card, and said I was #1 on the Volt list. The third time, I was told that they have no information available as yet from GM when they would be likely to get authorized to sell this model. That is very frustrating.
I have been here a long time. My # on the now useless list is 1196. I have posted a few thousand times, and read tens of thousands of posts. I think I have a pretty good idea of how the Volt will operate. I was given the opportunity to test drive it in NYC. I have done my part to spread the word about the Volt, to the point of being muzzled by my friends if I mention the Volt one more time…. I can afford this vehicle. My driving patterns are perfect for the Volt. But GM has decided to just dump me in with every other person in the country that has little or no idea about what this car has to offer, and tells me to be patient while they decide when a Volt will be available in my local area. I guess I just don’t like being patronized. Give me enough information of what / when / where / how / why, and let me make a decision. Is that so difficult?
I apologize if it it sounds like I am whining. I am just very disappointed in that GM was so open during the development of this vehicle, and now that it is time to get it out to the open market, they have stopped telling us anything of real importance………..
But it sure will be fun to own a Volt in 2 or 3 or 4 more years, maybe!!!! <–<< Sarcasm Alert!
-31
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:01 am)(click to show comment)
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:13 am)There are a lot of old GM customers out there.
We have seen GM, so many times, introduce a car with a lot of hype and a good amount of inventory. That inventory wasn’t just one division. It was Buick, Olds, Pontiac and Chevy too. GM knew us as customers very well.
They got fat, the UAW got fat.
We got picky and said no more crap and went somewhere else, in droves.
Now we see the turnaround in GM coming up. They’re in the midst of creating a better way of staying in the business of selling cars. They are designing cars that are relevant, good, and profitable. Inventories are within a non restrictive level and per car discounts have been dramatically reduced.
Now comes the Volt. Never before in anyone’s marketing dreams at GM would anyone think they had a chance to sell a $35,000 Chevy compact…at volume, and make a buck. But here it is and we want it. We want a good dealer lot selection and the salesmen want a good inventory to push that impulse sale. We want discounts and the ability to just drive over to another dealer and give price ultimatums. For GM, that has been the method of losing profits not just to the competition but when competition is in the mirror, from it’s own network.
Now GM has given us a reasonable business plan for an expensive Chevy. They have told us that if we buy more they will make more, just not in the old GM business as usual way.
The Volt has a lot of content. It’s an expensive car for the parts as well as to manufacture. I don’t look forward to seeing the warranty cost for a simple water pump never mind the battery. Still, even with the risks involved, in a manufacturing perspective, the Volt is being done more right than just about any new car any manufacturer has developed to date.
It is a model of product development, marketing, manufacturing, and hopefully, sales!
When the hype is finally over we are going to have one helluva good car to buy. I’ll be in the market for Voltec gen3 and the choices will be excellent.
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:17 am)The information given to the dealers states that they must “purchase” a New VOLT which MUST be placed in the showroom AND be made available for demo rides. The dealer gets NO reimbursement for the cost of the vehicle and the operation of the vehicle. It MUST remain available for a minimum of 6 months. After that it was unclear if the dealer gets any incentive when it is sold as a used vehicle.
The costs associated with becoming a ‘Certified VOLT Sales and Service Center’ were much smaller than I thought it would be, and my General Manager signed up right away for the process.
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:17 am)# 974 on the list…. don’t comment that often… But, here in Central Alberta, Canada…. 2014 ? might be the earliest that a Volt will arrive at a dealership..
A slow roll out may be good for testing but a HUGE rollout would bring out all the bugs (if any) a whole lot faster..
Maybe a battery shortage ( I heard or read that the capabitly right now is 60 K units per year and they are ramping up to meet demand)…..
Maybe the “old” GM should take a lesson from Apple (iphone)… Even if there are a few bad phones…. the other million phones are just fine…
With this slow roll out… I fear that the Volt is going to just a niche car for maybe 100,000 people and the quietly dissappear…
Wake up GM…. I know that on this “wish list” of people …. at least 35 % (myself included) will buy and another 20 – 30 % are going to go else where when they realize the wait will be years. and years to get one..
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:18 am)I got the feeling that they canned E85 for 2011 Volts for three reasons:
1. California has very few E85 stations. It’s an expense they didn’t need to make at this time.
2. The CS mileage would be 15-30% less than with E10. This is probably why Prius is not E85.
3. The gas engine controls would be more complex. E85 may throw so much extra complexity as to make the transition to CS mode not as smooth as they wanted.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:21 am)I wonder how many people plan to move now?
“Honey, we’re moving to California!”
“Why?”
“To be able to get a Volt!”
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:28 am)I seriously doubt that 35% of people who sign up on an anonymous list over the last four years are going to plunk down $40k for a car.
I also seriously doubt that up to 35% of the $99 people that signed up for LEAF will buy it either.
I think GM is second-guessing the demand for a $40k car as well in this economy. All they have to do is look at the percentage of LTZs vs LSs they sell right now. I bet it’s not pretty.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:32 am)Cool. That means that there are going to be hundreds of used Volts (demos) out there by this time next year. Glass half full
.
May the eBay links commence.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:35 am)Typical GM stupidity. Planning, engineering a super low production, next to impossible to get vehicle exactly when people really want to buy something they build for the first time in 30 years.
What a bunch of pathetic idiots….who hires these guys…and how in the world do they keep their jobs….
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:36 am)We were able to get into the top 5 on the list at one of the 3 Austin dealerships (yea!!!), though they did ask for a $500 deposit. In fact at least 2 of the 3 Austin dealerships I talked to asked for a deposit, fyi. It doesn’t bother me, but it was a little surprising after the comments DiSalle made in the webcast. I suspect lots of other dealers will be doing the same.
+9
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:37 am)As 1 of the 2 or 3 guys at our dealership who will be ‘Certified’ to demo the VOLT per GM requirements, I would be happy to demonstrate all the features and give a demo ride… But I tell you, if some troll wants to get in my face about it, my team will also be happy to throw them out of the showroom.
Maybe I should put up a sign: “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”…!!!
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:44 am)But in that case most would want to be in one of the other 45 states.
-16
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:46 am)(click to show comment)
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:46 am)If this turns out to be true… too bad for us and too bad for GM. Who will be the bigger loser???
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:46 am)Well, so much for the ‘no deposit should be required’.
I just talked to 5 dealerships in the DC area and 4 of 5 are requiring a $2000 deposit. I guess that would be because they don’t want people like me getting on lists at every dealership and giving a false impression of demand.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:48 am)Just more speculation here. No new information.
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:48 am)Only if YOU or your kids did not need it.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:50 am)A lot of assumptions here that haven’t been researched.
Everything is electric on this car. It runs on battery power for 40 miles with all accessories available (a/c, heat, radio, defrost, everything). The gas engine is just a generator and is not required until the battery charge gets too low to run everything.
It sounds like this car may be a little too modern for you. That’s not a slam. There are a lot of things to think about when buying something this progressive, different and expensive.
It’s kind of like buying an HD-DVD. Maybe it will be the standard, maybe not. Only the risk is higher between a $400 item and a $40,000 item.
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:50 am)I’ve been following this site from almost the start! Before that I was ranting and raving about the EV-1in Japan! I’m teary eyed that you folks starting with Lyle and the rest of you have kept me very well informed are being SHIT on! I hope for GM’s sake they recognize Lyle’s want list!
As we all know this is thee HOTTEST place for Volt news! The official site is LAME! When they talk about these totals, does this include the Ampera, too? I’m blown away going from the HIGH of the Freedom Drive to This! Awesome pictures! TKS!
Also for you folks that beleive Japan is a closed market you don’t have a clue! There are MB’s, Beemers, VW’s all over the place! They are firmly rooted here! GM? During the Bubble years there was so much American iron running around you woulda been amazed! Astro Vans were all over the place! The thing about it is that GM had nothing to do with most of them being here! Yesterday drove to Costco, about a 20 minute drive and I spotted 4 Harleys! Not wannabes! My first bike was a 68 Bonnie and later a Trident. Within about a 30 minute drive from my house there are 4 Harley dealers!
The world’s largest HD club is in Tokyo! I owned a 54 Rikuo. Did you know this was an exact copy of a 34 Harley cuz HD sold them all of their tooling to make it here. Then HD shit on them in the early 60’s!
In 79, Black Trans Am was thee #1 import car in Japan! I’ve owned 68, 70 Vettes, 68 Firebird, 67 Impala, and Camaros out the wazoo here! Some of them I bought in CA. I saved mucho yen cuz
I registered them myself! If I can do it, anybody can!
Guess what? You can import a whatever and get it on the road here! I’ve see it all, repaired and sold
parts for all kinds of American iron and the owners were fanatics! I advertised in 5 magazines that were
mostly devoted to American iron! The Bubble popped loooong ago!
Hey, if its a Japanese car 1964 and older you can import and get it on the road there! Try it with something later it ain’t gonna happen, unless you have mucho bucks to get it certified, send it back
or pay to have it destroyed! Yeah, I know I could part it out send to you as parts, you rebuild it
and maybe get it on the road! I’ve done it!
When I got out of the Army here I took back a 63 Jag. That’s why I know.
This market is wide open for QUALITY automobiles! What are my chance of seeing a Volt, here!?
Oh yeah, Suzuki sells mini vehicles emblazoned with Chevy, Bowties and one minivan is called a Stingray! Many, many Japanese along with me have a sincere fondness for thee Bowtie!
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:51 am)When you’re under pressure to build a car that you don’t want to make, one response is to build a very small number of the cars at insanely high prices and then claim “nobody wanted them”. Seems like Plan A for GM management.
GM might have gotten away with this except for Nissan. Nissan is demonstrating the way it needs to be done. Having publicly stated that in order to have prices of EV at a level comparable to conventional vehicles it needs worldwide sales of 500,000 – 1,000,000 copies, Nissan is doing everything it can to hit those numbers.
Case in point is the Leaf roll out. To begin with, the price of the Leaf is almost certainly under Nissan’s cost. That may pose some short term issues, but after rebates the Leaf will be about the same price as a comparably equipped Prius — which may be why 50% of the orders for the Leaf have come from Prius drivers. Plus the roll out offers a lease deal which effectively and painlessly passes on the federal tax credit to the customer. Finally, as a centrally run roll out, by allocating the cars by customer rather than by dealer it goes a long way towards ensuring that pricing above MSRP is unlikely to occur. GM, on the other hand, is going through the standard dealer network with numbers virtually guaranteed to lead to pricing above MSRP — whatever that price will be. Want to bet we’ll see a great lease deal?
Enough to make you cry.
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:52 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:55 am)For whatever it’s worth–I suspect the Volt will be “available” everywhere before it’s actually available without a mark-up in its initial launch markets.
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:55 am)(click to show comment)
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:57 am)no VOLT for me…
ok GM, I get the message — thanks. Lets see what Ford is selling.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:06 am)Hope your comment is TRUE TRUE..
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:10 am)If they are worried about a problem with the car o a lawsuit. I am willing to sign a waiver. if the car has a problem, i will not sue. We need to take that fear away so they can produce more cars. I think most people in this group will agree that we can help GM instead of abuse the system. We want this car to work for all of us.
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:14 am)You’re missing the big picture. Rolling out a new model is not as passive an endeavor as you’re thinking. The key is that demand is a function of price and cost is a function of volume. Because cost and volume are inextricably intertwined, until volumes go up — way way way up from what GM is talking about — GM can’t make any money on a per copy basis unless the price point for the car is astronomically high. The recipe in the car industry is pretty well established. High volumes –> lower costs –> lower MSRP –> more purchases –> higher volumes. GM seems committed to this cycle for the Volt, except that rather than aiming for high volumes and lower prices it is aiming for low volumes and high prices.
Whether this is replay of the EV-1 fiasco is for you to decide. But it’s clear that GM is not trying to push the Volt.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:17 am)Playing catchup with what?
The Volt driver doesn’t look in the mirror and see any competition.
The cars you mentioned will be a dime a dozen, sitting in the lots waiting for discounts to keep them from being obsolete. They are immensely useful for the little stuff, but they’re still just batteries on wheels. And you know how much batteries are changing. The new crop of BEV’s will be the closest thing to a disposable car. Maybe Nissan will come up with a use contract similar to the cellphone companies. Trade in that oxymoronic 5 passenger dead Leaf for the new 2 passenger disposable one. Maybe that’s the plan.
Oil?
It’ll be cheap enough to be relevant, maybe not for gasoline, but for diesel generators powering up all those quick charge stations you so want so bad.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:19 am)Probably a good idea, lots of joyriders around.. did they say anything about MSRP or “added dealer profit”?
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:20 am)I want my Volt, but…let’s keep some perspective. The tax credit for hybrids had a limit of just 60,000 vehicles from a manufacturer (the electric vehicle credit goes to 200,000 vehicles). We all know of the success of the Prius. However, Toyota also has the Camry and Highlander Hybrids in their lineup. Note that it took Toyota YEARS to reach this 60,000 number, even with 3 models to choose from. We got our Highlander Hybrid in August 2006 and the dealer was stating that they expected to roll over the limit during that quarter. I would like more Volts than the 30,000 promised, but looking at REAL WORLD numbers from recent experience, GM is being more realistic about what John Q Public is actually going to do with gas saving cars. It makes me sick that the average joe feels no sense of urgency to get us off oil, but we (on this site) would be naïve to fault GM for not producing a couple hundred thousand vehicles in two years time.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:20 am)Look at Lyle, getting his name out there in the MSM!
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/07/autos/volt_production/index.htm?hpt=T2
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:21 am)My guess about why GM is planning on lower numbers at first is for a number of reasons:
A: It takes time to streamline the supply chain, manufacturing processes, logistics, dealer and mechanic training.
B: While the Volt has been extensively tested, having a small number at first means that if problems turn up, the number of cars to be fixed is low and more manageable. Plus the PR for such a problem would be limited if the total recall were lower.
C: The very first cars will probably be the most expensive followed by a gradual decline in prices as better more efficient means are found for production. Thus lower numbers to ensure all that is produced can sell.
D: To create insatiable demand by making the cars seem rare and exotic. Perfect example: Jack Daniels, which in the 50’s was the favorite whiskey of Frank Sinatra and Elvis. It was a tiny distillery at the time. Once the public caught on there was an instant supply shortage. It took a few years for the distillery to ramp up production. Eve since it has been a highly desirable product. Perhaps the same is true with having a limited supply.
As far as the comments about concerns over the Leaf, Tesla, and so on, well first of all the Leaf is not at all the same car as the Volt. If anything the Leaf is a city car with has limited appeal due to its mere 100 mile drive range ( that and the Leaf is indescribably ugly) Tesla is 2 more years from supposedly launching the Model S, which in its lowest price range gets you a 160 mile range for $47,000 and upwards of $90k for a 300 mile range version. Tesla’s IPO didn’t exactly do that great. They could easily go the way of Delorean. Toyota seems to be suddenly advertising the heck out o the Prius because they’re probably aware of the shift in consumer interest once the Volt launches. Seeing as how they only recently started a relationship with Tesla I’d say Toyota is still a few years away from having a competitive Volt equivalent.
Yes- I’d love to have a Volt. But I’m a cheap-skate and thus I probably won’t. But I think GM has a real winner here and 10,000 for the first year and 30,000 by 2012 doesn’t sound that bad.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:22 am)If I can’t get one this year, I probably won’t get one anytime soon. The $7500 tax credit expires this year, right?
+11
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:23 am)I am VERY disappointed that GM did not use Lyle’s Want List for the VOLT, especially in the initial rollout markets. The ‘early adopters’ here would definitely be the BEST salespeople for the VOLT, just on enthusiasm alone!
I can just see those initial VOLT owners pulling in to a grocery store parking lot and being swarmed by onlookers. (Try to remain calm and friendly… People are going to be asking you a lot of questions…)
I certainly hope that GM surprises us all with a BIG announcement of increased production. I am sad to report that I can count the number of VOLTs on our (initial) allocation on less than 10 fingers.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:25 am)I hope GM has not forgotten what NPNS means!
No Plug No Sale!
I won’t buy or lease any new car that does not come with a plug and lithium ION battery.
NPNS, NPNS, NPNS!
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:27 am)If all the dealers have mark-ups on the Volt, how could they possibly claim that “nobody wanted them?” By definition, that means demand exceeds supply. If anything Nissan will “help” in that regard since it will draw away at least some of the initial adopter demand.
I think that its more likely that GM’s current management is very risk averse, and skeptical of demand. They’re about to the get the shock of their lives. Hopefully, it won’t be too late for them to adjust…
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:30 am)FYI, I’ve been in contact with a few local dealers. One said they require a $1000 non-refundable deposit. They would be selling the car at MSRP. The guesstimate the price MID-UPPER 30s. They have 2 people on the list now.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:31 am)Lyle, You and this site are mentioned in this CNN report. In case you didn’t see it already:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/07/autos/volt_production/index.htm?hpt=T2
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:33 am)I had my Finance Manager put these numbers together for me. For those of you who have purchased a nicely equipped Silverado Crew Cab LT, these number are nothing new, except for the Federal Rebates:
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:35 am)The worst thing of all is having to go through a dealer that’ll know jack about the Volt, do their damnedest to get you into whatever else they have on their lot if they have no Volts, and almost certainly engage in price-gouging.
The dealership experience is and always will be the worst part of buying a vehicle. If only we could buy factory-direct from GM-owned and operated showrooms!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:38 am)I’m not talking to myself here. You must be another Gary on this planet. Who would have thought?
Anyways, I don’t know where this over hyped and under delivered part comes from. A car isn’t developed in a day. It takes years.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:40 am)Maybe. Just not so soon.
I like the November roll out. In the winter of 2012, someone will walk into an Albany Nissan dealership and say “I want a Leaf.”
Salesman’s answer? “No you don’t!”
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:40 am)It applies to the first 200,000 made by each manufacturer.
http://www.energy.gov/taxbreaks.htm
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:48 am)===========
No, I didn’t get beyond the deposit requirement. That means I will have to pick one to give the deposit to (and get in writing the circumstances of the return of the deposit – I can’t believe one guy just wanted me to give him $2000 over the phone with no indication of when/if/how I would apply it to the cost/get it back when I complete the purchase/get it back if I decide I don’t want the car – if they tack on a $10,000 premium over invoice for instance).
I’ll cover that ground when I decide who I’m giving my deposit to.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:48 am)#71 My first post! I read it several times and my 3rd paragrah was all there. It’s vanished! Is it because I said basically GM has never really given a damn about the Japanese market!? What car has GM made that’s RHD for Japan? Unless less you wanna call a Suzuki wannabe a GM!
MB, BMW, VW, Fiat, many others are firmly entrenched here! GM is flackey! During the Bubble, fully decked Astro Vans were all over the place! Very few had GM’s involvement in getting them here! Visitors from the States often were amazed seeing them! Private importers and buyers were crazy about them. I often saw Astro Van Club, conyoys heading down the road or parked in front of my shop! GM turned a blind eye!
So please knock off that crap about Japan being a closed market!
If the Volt is truly a world beater it will be here!
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:52 am)ABSOLUTELY AGREE. And Toyota didn’t listen. After I bought my Prius in 2008, I told the dealer I would buy no more vehicles until I could plug them in. I had read about the plug in concept and it seemed like an awesome idea. Note that Toyota brought plug in versions of the Prius to California YEARS ago for trial. Their progress can be measured in GEOLOGIC time. If you think GM is taking too long, don’t ever think Toyota is an option. While I bought THREE Toyota hybrids in two years, their lackluster approach to getting onboard the plug-in train ensures I will not be buying anything else from them. Go Volt. NPNS-indeed!
-8
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:56 am)GM has the understanding and knowledge of the unprecedented demand for this car yet they cap the numbers to a mere 10K. I don’t thinkg GM has ever seen such demand for a single product, not even for the Camaro. Yet keep a lid on the the numbers. A “Golden” opportunity is to be had but it won’t be by GM running the way they are, back to the olden days….
Tsk tsk….
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:56 am)Geez, how much they cost???!!!????
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:01 am)I think you are so right in this comment. It’s very frustrating. I’ll probably not see a Volt available in my local market till 2012 or 2013. By then I will be owning some other new car. This situation also leaves me less interested in hanging out at GM-Volt.com. Why go to the dance when you have to stand along side the wall while the others have all the fun?:(
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:02 am)Let’s be realistic on the small volume being made the first year – while we may like to think it’s a marketing ploy to build demand because people always want what’s harder to get – the fact is it’s a new technology that is not fully road tested in real world conditions and EVERY new car model has a few bumps they hit in the first year – long story short – better to recall 10,000 of these – if needed – rather then 40,000+ even if they could make that many and more the first year.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:03 am)OH, that’s simple. They’ll just say that at MSRP or even above they lost money on every copy. Look what Lutz has said about the EV-1. That was a very expensive car yet by talking in current dollars he dismisses it as being very affordable.
We’ll have a better idea when see the price. The Leaf is at $32.5k before rebate. At best the Volt might support a $5k premium. So we’ll see how aggressive the pricing is. At $40K or north there may not be that much of a waiting list. There isn’t a waiting list for Tesla Roadster’s at $125,000, which doesn’t mean a lot of people wouldn’t want one. It just means there isn’t a lot of demand at that price.
Nissan has essentially sold out of its first two years of production. But that’s at $27K after the federal rebate.
-16
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:05 am)(click to show comment)
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:14 am)Long time admirer, first time poster here…
I just put in requests with many of the CT Chevy dealers, to be placed on their Volt lists. I am getting mixed reactions, from “We should be getting one soon”, to “I have a Volt coming between March and May of next year”.
Sounds like this could be a long next few months…the lease on my Corolla expires in September 2011; I’m hoping I don’t have to lease another car while I’m waiting for the Volt to finally become available at a reasonable price.
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:17 am)Dave, have you heard of the internet; oh sorry …. your posting here so you obviously know how to use it. Tony DiSalle announced that it will be sending an eLetter to each dealer giving it its allocation of Volts. Why don’t you just email the dealers on your possible list and ask them? Then you won’t be wasting your time. I’m amazed that you didn’t think of this yourself
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:19 am)Can I go to a Volt Dealership and put down a deposit and order what I want rather than being on a waiting list?
-8
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:24 am)GM is doing a terrible job at this by not producing nearly enough of these vehicles. they are also doing a terrible job of promoting the technology and showing people how it works. Most people still think they have to get some special kind of plug to charge the thing….
No wonder you guys can’t make any money.
I was thinking about buying one too, but I’m pretty sure I’m going with a different brand of EV. My father was going to purchase one of these, but when we heard the low production numbers, he put a deposit on one of the new Tesla sedans.
Its pretty upsetting at the poor performance by GM.
I’m getting a Coda….
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:25 am)They say the same thing about China too. But Who’s GM biggest customer and bought the most GM cars? China.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:29 am)Corvette Guy: Is it possible at time of purchase to deduct the $7500 tax credit from the purchase price? Many posters to this web site have said for quite some time that a Volt buyer would only be able to “access” their credit when they file their annual tax return.
I wonder about the price that the state sales tax would apply to. Would the sales tax be on the higher before tax credit price or the lower net price after factoring the tax credit? It seem to me that if the tax credit were applicable only at the time of filing your annual federal tax return, then the sales tax would be on the before-tax-credit price, the price the buyer actually paid for the car.
I hope we can see how this all actually plays out. The dollars involved are truly significant.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:31 am)Lol.
-3
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:35 am)Or Mr DiSalle could be saying, ‘for the rest – we’re sorry, please be patient for GM is not in a position to take a chance with a mass rollout and blow it — you see, there are things about the Volt which you do not know about yet which, when exposed, may greatly slow demand or may not slow down demand – the fact is, it’s too early to tell which way things will go until the Volt becomes available for sale. Then and only then will we know the direction the Volt will be heading. Just know this – if the market accepts the Volt for all that it is, you may rest assured that GM has preparations to ramp up production and expansion of markets as rapidly as possible.’
What could those unknown things be?
PRICE (MSRP) – Is the market ready and willing to pay in the high $30k’s before tax incentives?
FUEL CONSUMPTION – If the Volt only goes 300 miles on a nine gallon tank for an underwhelming 33 mpg – will people focus on that aspect and conclude the Volt is overpriced for its mediocre mileage, or will that not matter because people realize the true virtue of the Volt is that its 40 mile gas free range will encompass most driving that they’ll do?
I guess we’ll all just have to stay tuned.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:38 am)This is exactly the type of thing that happens when there’s no competition.
The Volt desperately needs competition, and by that I mean a car that:
• runs on electricity or gasoline
• has at least 30 miles of all-electric range, meaning the gas engine isn’t needed for full power
• is built by a major car maker, with a network of dealers throughout the U.S.
• is real, with an announced production date
By this simple definition, the Volt has no competition. For the last 3 years, people on this site have been saying that other car companies are working on this and will announce something soon, but it has never materialized.
This is a huge problem. Without competition, GM will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drive customers away. You have to give them a tangible reason to compete. And as we’ve seen today, it takes more than a great product to be competitive…
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:42 am)I think, it makes sense for GM to go through their regular dealers. Of course, it reduces availability in the first one to two years, due to those cars, that the dealers have to use for showcasing it, and due to regional differences: One dealer may run out quickly, while another one still has cars.
On the other hand, the Volt and its successors will with time become normal cars, that are sold and serviced by normal dealers. If GM made the dealers angry by selling the Volt exclusively (or even in parallel) over the internet at this time, would fire back at GM in the long run.
It is also understandable, that they ramp up production slowly. Electric motor, generator, power conversion units and especially the battery: These are all parts, that car manufacturers are new to, and that they have to learn to produce in quantity. I am certain, that all initial Volts will have to be called back for some repairs. Better do that on 10,000 cars than on 50,000.
Finally, over-demand also helps to get good news. Better we read: “Initial Volt production sold out” and not: “Volts are stockpiling at the dealers”.
And, although many people claimed, a lot of competition will show up quickly: Those competitors like Nissan Leaf are mostly “pure” electric cars. Plug-in-hybrids are still scarce.
Kai
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:42 am)At the NYC July 4th event, I told the engineer there that now that GM is rolling the Volt out also in New York, that this is now a deal changer for me, since I am on the order list for the Leaf. Well it looks like, the deal changer is broken, and I will gladly accept my Leaf.
All of us here at this blog have been doing GM’s work and promoting the Volt. Now we are tossed aside. GM knows that the dealers will mark up the initial Volts, and they are ok with that because it helps their dealer network stay in place and recoup some lost revenues…..
The BYD and Zapworld EV’s are looking tempting too…..
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:43 am)I have several dealerships within 10 miles. Anyone know of a way to tell what their sales volume is?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:50 am)… and last a year at maximum. That’s $8000 over ten years, plus service cost to replace the batteries. Lead-acid batteries are good, if they survive 100 full cycles. Typically car starter batteries die after just a few dozen cycles, even. For starter batteries, that is not a problem. They are discharged just a tiny bit, when a car is started, then charged again to full power level.
In addition, lead-acid batteries have limited power density. Don’t expect to be able to drain over 100 Kilowatts out of an 8 kWh lead-acid battery.
On the other hand, the only 50% utilized Lithium-Ion battery is supposed to last at least a decade, with daily cycling. That’s over 3000 charge-discharge-cycles, not just 300.
Kai
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:52 am)Now GM wonders why they are behind foreign carmakers. Make more you idiots!
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:52 am)Lyle,
I am positive there exists an enterprising dealership with high “regular sales volumes” and high “Volt allocation number” that would be very happy to get your list. Please help us find these dealers since GM could care less.
NPNS!
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:54 am)Consider the latest version of the Apple iPhone. They tested the daylights out of it, had a lot of outside-of-lab, real world, employee use experience (recall one got left at a bar several months before product launch), thought they had a cool idea putting the antenna into the metal outer trim. And then the public gets hold of it and finds that they’re killing the signal strength just by where they put their fingers. Apple’s response: put a rubber band around the thing. Even if it’s only a small percentage of users and calls that are functionally affected, Apple gets a big black eye in the larger community — including in the view of potential future purchasers.
Fast forward to the Volt. Tested extensively. Real-world experience by employees. Launch the product in a huge wave and tell people to put a rubber band around the inevitable problems? *That* would be the old GM. As a senior digital systems architect in my office once put it, “it’s hard to make things foolproof because fools are so darned ingenious.”
Some number of gm-volt posters seem bummed because it won’t be possible in the first year to walk into any random Chevy dealer and pick a Volt from the 27 on the lot to drive home that day. The solution is simple. Go to a Chevy dealer, ask if they’re keeping a list, get on it. I did and I’ll be one of the earliest in the region to have one. And they didn’t ask if I was a politician or movie star.
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:54 am)I echo your sentiments sir. GM has mised two major opportunities.
First is the No E85. WTF were they thinking? End dependence would have been started right there IMHO.
Second, Use of only 8KWh out of the 16KWh. Later they found that this is overkill on “babying” the pack. Most other EV manufacturers came to that conlusion over a year ago and GM just now figured that out. Coda, iMiEV and the LEAF all take the packs down to at least 75%-80% DOD, if you do the same for the Volt you just might get 65-70 mile EV range.
If GM just did that, I would support it. But nope. They waste energy carrying around 50% mor battery and no E85.
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:55 am)So far, we have no word if the Federal Tax Credit can be applied at the time of purchase. I doubt it, but as we get closer to the November elections, and if our current president is still suffering in his approval rating, MAYBE he will find a way to change that ruling and let us apply it right away, similar to the “Cash-for-Clunkers” program.
As far as State Sales Tax, that is ALWAYS calculated on the purchase price BEFORE any Rebates. (Yeah. I know it sucks, but it’s not my fault.)
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:56 am)The Volt is supposed to be a mainstream car. The kinds of questions Bum asks will be common for new mainstream users. Once they know the answers (which won’t take long), demand for the Volt will skyrocket.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:56 am)The only other company I know of that kept low production despite high demand was Ty and their Beanie Babies
This might be an apples and oranges comparison, but hey, it worked out well for them, didn’t it? Maybe the Volt will be the “Beanie Baby” of this decade.
NPNS!
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:00 pm)As we move closer and closer to the launch I’m getting more and more surprised that a price hasn’t been announced.
Apart from that, I am taken back a little by the noticeable whine theme coming through today’s thread. You would think that by reading these posts, a lot of you had your own car company and knew exactly what the hell it takes to roll out brand new technology to the masses!
Or is the whine coming from the fact that mommy or daddy promised you a Volt for Christmas or your birthday and you may not get it?
Criminy people, let’s just stay a little frosty here and realize this is grounding breaking automotive technology. This car company gets bashed for a failed attempt at the EV1 and then gets bashed for not rolling out the next attempt with the Volt in such massive quantities so that every American on their quest for self-fulfillment through the purchase of the latest marvel can’t get their instant gratification nipple tweaked.
Relax, they’ll get here.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:01 pm)I am all for….100% Volt. However, it is beyond belief that a company that just went through what they have gone through….bankruptcy, ridicule, layoffs, billions in tax payer subsudies and they still do not get it. By the time they get to 2012 both Nissan and Toyota will have beat them to the punch…..again. GM will be left by the wayside talking again about how “great things will be….one day.”
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:02 pm)Might be better to call it something else, if Gen I is perceived as a high cost premium model with bullet proof engineering, wouldn’t a lot of people seeking a lower priced car just avoid it?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:06 pm)Hahahaha! I’d give you a +10 if I could.
Price, purchase process, and marketing materials to be available within the month according to a highly-placed source (named Tony) from GM at the Gaithersburg, MD stop on the Volt freedom drive.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:08 pm)How could we see that with out demographic information?
Nissan tons of demographic information some released to the public (Hand raisers – have owned a Prius, are older).
GM according to Tony DiSalle, We have info on demand for the Volt…nothing released yet.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:11 pm)I can understand GM’s desire to ramp up slowly…because the Volt is an entirely new drivetrain…entirely new technology…but I think that the rollout strategy is too conservative.
There will be high demand for these cars. And if GM can’t meet that demand, that will bite them. It’s economics 101.
I hope that GM keeps an eye on the demand and plans on ramping up production more quickly to meet it.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:13 pm)That’s truly hilarious. Couldn’t even wait for the car to be released until total FAIL was declared LOL. Gee and I thought I was giving GM marketing the rough treatment. I’ll give myself a FAIL for that now!!!!!
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:16 pm)If you listen to half the people coming here these days, one would think there is at least 50 manufacturers with EREV competitors coming out 1 nano second after the Volt that will just bury GM. The closest competitor to the Volt isn’t an EREV at all, and that comes in December. So are we both missing something here?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:17 pm)Yes, the Volt has all of these standard accessories, and more.
No. The air conditioner runs on electricity. The heater is a dual system with electric heating elements (used in EV mode) and a traditional heater core (used when the gas engine is warm).
Air conditioning and heating are the only 2 accessories that use significant amounts of electrical power. Other things like the radio, wipers, headlights, etc, use much less power. And since the brakes are regenerative, they actually add power.
If the air conditioner is on max and it’s 95 degrees outside, you’ll probably get around 20% less range. So it’s significant, but not a show stopper. And if you run the air conditioner in econo-mode, the range will be affected a lot less.
All the things that were connected to belts are changed to use small electric motors. On the Volt, the gas engine won’t have any belts. Two electric water pumps (1 for the engine and another for cooling the battery), electric power steering pump, electric air conditioner compressor, etc.. And by the way, this is already starting to happen in regular gas engine cars. Many are converting from belt driven power steering to electric.
Once you know the facts, I think you may change your mind.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:20 pm)Perhaps…though a year ago most auto makers stuck with the conclusion that Li-Ion was years away from useful, while GM and Nissan worked toward meeting their 2010 launch dates.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:25 pm)#12 Roy H said:
base model in $37k to $40k range. This means that the Volt may actually be profitable, instead of a loss leader. GM needs profitability now.
Given that they will have a 10,000 car limited test fleet dribbled out over 12 months, they can cut costs now by releasing the car now and start taking their feedback from real customers. There will only be a few of them per month, just in case some huge problem shows up.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:26 pm)It’s almost 2 AM in Sagamihara, Japan! I’m usually out by 11! This WTH news brought me out! I hope
just because I’m sleepy I’m mis-reading but looks like some once die-hard Volt fans are gonna be headed in another direction!
GM, these folks are thee most deserving, appreciative Volt owners on the planet! Please change your
mind about Lyle’s Want List! How about at least pick a few numbers out of hat!?
If you don’t. I’m looking foward to gm-volt-sucks.com!
Many of us including me here in Japan have kept our Golden Bowties polished! Man, this time mine gets
tarnished again it’s history! Last time for me was the EV-1!
Goodnight!
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:28 pm)Which is what I’ve heard for the last 3 years, only it hasn’t happened.
And if another car company has an EREV close to production, why wouldn’t they announce it?
I don’t think so.
When you run the numbers, with the combination of a pure EV together and another car for longer trips, this doesn’t uses around the same amount of gasoline as the Volt. And range anxiety is very real, as most pure EV owners can attest. So there’s not much of an advantage to a pure BEV, and a lot of limitations.
For example, Nissan has already said they will produce an EREV version of the Leaf if EREV demand exceeds BEVs. I really hope they follow through on this…
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:28 pm)It is clearly not a mainstream car given the production volumes announced. A Corvette is a mainstream car by comparison.
Hybrids in general are not mainstream cars… Yet.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:30 pm)Doug for all your good reasons to hate them, the only thing that involves delaying prevaricating or changing – is price – it simply has not been released yet. The “release date” has always been 11/2010.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:38 pm)Aren’t most GM cars FlexFuel already? E-85 is pointless and will never get its foot in the door.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:39 pm)That’s right! At least you’ll be able to BUY a Cruze.
As #3,750 on Lyle’s “want list” I’m mighty befuddled why they wouldn’t at least attempt to leverage the years of interest and goodwill those of us around here have clearly worn on our sleeve. I think it’s major marketeering misstep.
Furthermore, IMHO, a great many dealerships don’t deserve GM’s adoration. “Go to the dealers” indeed. Why? They probably won’t have a Volt to show me, much less sell me. Heck, so far, every Chevy employee I’ve talked to about Volt has barely even bothered to educate themselves about what the Volt is! Some don’t even know it exists. And those who do, usually have heads jam-packed with misconceptions and just-plain-wrong information. This, with only months until launch. And these are “car people?” It’s all very frustrating and nearly inconceivable to me, at this late stage. Imagine if they basically didn’t know squat about a Tahoe or a Malibu!
Sincerely,
A four-time buyer of brand new GM vehicles.
** sorry if I’m venting a bit, guys.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:41 pm)Have you ever followed an Apple product launch?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:43 pm)Want to blame somebody ——-
Roger Smith? – Deceased
Robert C. Stempel? CEO Energy Conversion Devices (NASDAQ: ENER) is headquartered in Rochester Hills, Michigan.
United Solar Ovonic, LLC (also called Uni-Solar) is its wholly owned subsidiary located in Auburn Hills, Michigan. Ovonics (coined from “Ovshinsky” and “electronics”) is a field of electronics that uses materials able to change from an electrically nonconducting state to a semiconducting state shown by glass of special composition upon application of a certain minimum voltage. The most important example is phase change memory.
Scientist-entrepreneur Stanford Ovshinsky pioneered the field and coined the term after he founded Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. (ECD) in 1960 to further his research in amorphous semiconductors. ECD Ovonics works to create non-polluting, non-climate-changing energy sources
Healthy skepticism, watchful? Tens of thousands of GMers from the period have been fired, moved on, retired, or died…time to move on?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:43 pm)The artificial shortage GM is creating to increase to Buzz. I predict they will ramp up Volt production significantly in six month after launch. Shortage creates demand. People want what they can’t have. I do believe they want at least a six month shake down before expanding. I think the expansion will be driven by battery production capability in addition to demand.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:44 pm)This is exactly the problem with trying to set an MSRP for the thing.
MSRP = too low = no profit (at first)
MSRP = too high = car is classified by the market in the wrong marketing slot in the lineup.
Also, they can’t lower the MSRP later very easily. Even if battery and other component costs go down drastically.
The MSRP defines what class and lineup slot the car is in *forever*. They’d have to call it a Volt II. And we know how well the Mustang II was received.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:51 pm)In my experience, they don’t know squat about anything they sell. You can spend a Sunday afternoon researching a few cars on the Internet and know more about their cars than they do.
I speak from personal experience having owned over 30 different cars (all American btw.) and 7 of those were new.
The cell phone sales people give you a better experience than any car salesperson I have ever met. (Haven’t met you ‘VetteGuy, so, no offense intended.)
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:52 pm)What a ridiculous company. Their design changes, ridiculous list policy / management and arrogance guarantees I will never buy a Volt.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:52 pm)I could have chosen any number of posts made so far, but, yours Jim I, covered a lot of what others have complained about.
Your list of four factors in why GM is going slow and easy are good reasons for their current planned roll-out. As another blogger stated GM is having difficulty getting financing from the banks. In order to not be caught in a financial bind, the recent decision to lower the second year production to 30,000 may be for that reason. In time, we will get a better picture of their financial position. If they had originally planned for 60,000, it would seem reasonable to believe that they would be able to change back to that level of production. The current situation with the spill in the Gulf of Mexico will have a huge impact on the economy. Many of the people in the Gulf region will hardly be able to afford the purchase of a GEN I Volt at its initial high price. The state of the economy will determine manufacturers output. They will be cautious with inventory levels which generally determine planned production. Under such current economic conditions, this reducing planned production is wise. If conditions indicate otherwise (increase orders gathered by Chevy Dealers), with their being prepared to increase production, it is the green light to add additional production shifts. GM is no doubt accepting work applications from former automotive works looking to come back to work for GM. To add an additional shift would not take them long to accomplish. In the process of planning, they will have considered parts production of supply need pending a decision to increase vehicle production. Positioning their vendors to supply sufficient parts is a standard factor in planning. Testing of tooling has been completed but is always a factor when ramping up production. Spare tooling dies and other tools are always in inventory should those used become damaged. High production is the true test of these tools and a slow ramp-up is typical step in a final test of tooling as they reach maximum production. The equipment is expensive and GM must rely on cash reserves to put new production plans into the works. It would not surprise me if they are already planning new production facilities here in the U.S. They certainly are planning production facilities in foreign countries
What did you expect? Did you ask what steps they had taken to get information? Or where they just waiting for GM to provide the information? In any case, your questions on when they will get notice of their allocation, and that GM tells them to begin creating a list of their prospective Volt buyers, has now been answered.
I don’t feel that way! Lyle allowed us all to sign up on the list and hopefully influence GM’s plans for the Volt. And I applaud Lyle for his farsightedness. It has an had a positive effect. Nissan has been taking down-payments for the Leaf for some time now. They are also doing a select market roll-out in certain markets; cities and municipalities that are pursuing plans to put in place charging infrastructure have been selected as prime markets for EV’s. What GM is doing is no different than Nissan. They stated that it will produce 500,000 Leafs per year and that figure looks like total global production. GM is only giving figures for the U.S. Nissan has also indicated that it might not reach their planned level of sales. GM has taken the opposite approach. Many here today are saying this doesn’t make sense, that it is dumb. I think that GM is smiling; they love all this gibber and are just waiting to dispel all the negativity being voice by competitors, non-believers, skeptics, and disgruntled individuals from the past. When they get into a Volt and test drive it, feast their eyes on the exterior and interior up close, evaluate the attention to details, the abundance of features in the Volt, they will truly understand what a Volt is! Until then all of the above posts are part of the buzz being generated.
Honestly Jim I, I haven’t notice any slow down in the flow of information from GM. With Lyle’s great tenacity in getting and publishing information here on GM-Volt.com, my curiosity has been peaked. With few exceptions, each parcel of information has kept my interest at a high level. I understand that frustration and can see the impatience many have.
Fun; YES! I probably won’t be able to own one until after GEN I. The good news is, GM will roll-out nation-wide in 12 months after its initial deployment to the market. Lets all hope that the IPO in November goes well for GM, that a high demand beyond the current level of production results in pre-orders at Chevy Dealers so they can request a greater allotment for the following months, and GM will respond by adding more shifts, and new production facilities for the VOLT. GO VOLT!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
P.S. Jim I, I am not singling you out for your negative comments. You had a balance of positive and negative statements that lend well to the discussion. Take care and be patient!
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:55 pm)#112 Stuart22 said:
mpg – will people focus on that aspect and conclude the Volt is overpriced for its mediocre mileage, or will that not matter because people realize the true virtue of the Volt is that its 40 mile gas free range will encompass most driving that they’ll do?
I guess we’ll all just have to stay tuned.
My coach in gym class in junior high school had a poster on the wall that said “Next to today, the best time to start something is yesterday” You can’t get feedback until you sell a few of them. Start selling just a few/month now, and see if people are able to achieve gas free usage. If they can’t, then cancel everything, and save a ton of money.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:56 pm)Will there be some kind of rule/law disallowing someone from out of state purchasing a Volt in let’s say CA and then transporting it themselves to AZ? Just wondering …
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:58 pm)That’s right. Tony seemed very sure about that.
Nice meeting you in Gaithersburg, Baltimore17. Always good to put a face to the name.
And BTW, I did take the next step today. After the short test drive at Criswell, and a few good conversations with the wife, I put my $1000 down today at lunch. I am #10 on Criswell’s list.
I am sitting here rather comfortable this afternoon thinking about the new commitment. I think the car will suprise some folks about how civil it will be. GM is doing the rollout right. This is NOT something you rush to market in huge quantities. They have no margin for error, IMO.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:58 pm)Thanks for the link, Laura. I’m going to bookmark it for reference for when my Volt comes to New Mexico in CY 2011. (hope, hope) When I talked to Tony P. and Rob P. on the hands-free phone in the Volt on July 4th, one of them said they expected to have them out cross country, including NM, by the end of CY 2011 (12 to 18 months from now). I’m number 1 on the list at Galles Chevrolet.
BTW, did you make it to the GM 4th of July BBQ like you planned?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:01 pm)This is exactly what I expected, this car is designed for the urban environment, I will wait my turn, my current Chevy has 80k and still runs like new. I expect this car to get rave reviews and the owners of this first run will have to get used to the gawkers and strangers asking for a test drive. The Volt is my first choice in 2013, that is when I expect it to be available in my area, if I need a vehicle before then I will probably go for a Chevy Cruze or Malibu. Without a doubt it will sell out very quick in the first and second year of production and I do expect the dealers to sell this vehicle at a premium price due to its availability and cutting edge technology. Go GM !!!!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:04 pm)GM’s slow ramp up of production indicates they are shipping untold thousands of dollars with each volt. They hope to learn how to reduce production costs over time and make a profit on them.
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:05 pm)I think you summed up everything we know or can surmise, quite nicely.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:06 pm)It looks like GM is giving up on the Volt almost before it gets started. This rollout is very weak appearing but we will see. By keeping the production low they should be able to keep up with expected customer complaints.
What I expect to see is that other companies will take advantage of Volt’s short supply and long waiting lists to bring their electrics to market. I hope the Nissan Leaf is as good as it looks but I wish good sales to all electrics as this is the future. Once electrics are proven and accepted the next step is to “recharge” them with hydrogen fuel cells. Then the need for petroleum will begin to diminish.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:06 pm)This is not the EV1 where GM hand built a few cars that you could only lease. They’re mass producing them for sale to the general public. They can’t charge over $40,000. Not after repeatedly promising that MSRP will be less than that. They’ve locked themselves in, IMHO. So they can’t charge enough to limit demand. At least not for MSRP.
There is a huge difference between paying $125k for a Tesla, and $32,500 (with the tax credit) for the Volt. So, yes, I expect waiting lists. And mark-ups. So if they’re selling their entire production line at above MSRP, have a waiting list, and are still losing money, then isn’t that pretty clearly their fault? Especially if the dealers are getting a $5000 premium?
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:07 pm)So basically GM just used people to promote the volt by making early supporters feel that they were in line to get a volt. This is the way they reward brand loyalty?
I’m sure that many of the other “want list” people… you know… the ones that have been talking up the volt for the past several years are going to be just as tickled as I am at this. They could have tried to factor in this support … but nope…. Proving again that this company has crappy leadership. Keep you volt…. and good luck. I’ll buy the next electric car produced by a company I can trust… unfortunately that will probably not be a US auto manufacturer…. but US car manufacturers have been trying to self destruct for years.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:09 pm)Yeah, I remember reading that recently as well. Wow, that is quite a validation of the EREV philosophy considering Nissan hasn’t actually sold and delivered even one all-electric Leaf to a customer yet, and they are already considering jumping the fence and providing an EREV too. I didn’t think Carlos would stand for that kind of blasphemy but apparently it must be something that is on the table.
But back to the orginal statement you posed, the Volt has no specific EREV competitor (known) for now or the foreseeable future. If someone knows of any, speak now. Yet the paranoia is running like a river around here daily. I would like to see higher volumes as much as anyone, but considering the fatal consequences a problem would cause, I would take this hill slowly and see how it goes too, if I was GM. JMO.
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:14 pm)And who are these other EREV’s again? See #159
-5
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:14 pm)The Volt is a “Bait and switch” floor product. That’s why they are required to keep one in the showroom floor. The switch? The Cruze. Yup, get them into the showroom and tell tenm it’s a long wait and just buy the Cruze. On top of that, as someone else pointed out the crotch person I think, the Volt is CARB credeits for the volume on 6 SUV’s to one Volt. So 10K volts means 60K SUV’s they can sell.
Interesting how the Volt is a gas burner but then is also hailed as a “Green” car for GM, but will also be used to leverage the ability to sell more gas guzzler SUV’s as well as “sway” users to another gas burner….the Cruze, just by drawing in “floor traffic”.
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:17 pm)E85 will always be pointless unless people are encouraged to buy E85 rather than E10.
E85 = $2.15/gal
E10 = $2.45/gal
(in my area)
- E85 is not cheap enough to make it a better buy over E10. (price)
- E85 is only sold in 7 of the hundreds of stations in my area. (convenience)
- E85 yields a lot less power and fuel economy than E10. (performance)
- E85 is currently made from corn stocks. (environment)
Price, Convenience, Performance, Environment. If it was a buck (or even 50 cents) difference, I would buy E85. Right now, no way.
I have a 2009 Impala LT. It is flexfuel capable.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:17 pm)So GM is throwing the wait list in the trash? That is incredibly bad faith. There is no reason why dealers cannot use the wait list in some fashion. I was interested in a Volt, but I think I will wait for another manufacturer. I just don’t trust GM. I have high hopes that an electric mini will be available in a few years. I don’t need the supplemental gas motor anyway.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:17 pm)Yes. I did. The fireworks were pretty amazing. And the Volt looked larger than I remembered from the auto show. It actually had some “trunk” space. Which is an unexpected bonus.
I got there pretty late though. And I didn’t meet anyone from the site. Which is basically my fault. I forgot how bad I am at cocktail parties when I don’t know anyone…I met some employee’s girlfriends…
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:23 pm)Lemme give you my “Tailer Park Maggots” perspective on this supply and demand thing.
It’s like your sex partner. If you aint gettin it from him/her, then they go elsewhere!
/note I said sex partner and not spouse! I have some level of decency…..lol
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:24 pm)lol…..
That’s pretty funny there Miss LauraM.
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:26 pm)Glad you made it and experienced the Volt again. When I went to Austin in May, I couldn’t sit in the Volt or even look inside. I did meet a very nice GM rep named Samantha. Almost everything she told me has been announced by someone since then (even the parts she swore me to secrecy on). Since I kept my part of the bargin, I think they should order up my Volt early.
Too bad you didn’t link up with other GM-Voly dot com’ers. I was hoping you were in one of Tag’s pictures so we could see what you look like.
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:28 pm)@ Anounymous Proxy
You make a good point, and I’m quite sure that some dealers will indeed pull the good ‘ol bait ‘n switch. Even though I don’t like the idea of burning gas, the range extender is neccessary to promote the widespread adoption of the Volt and give electric vehicles a good name. Battery technology simply is not advanced enough at this point for any pure BEV to take on any sort of market prominence, and I know for certain that many less proactive people would strand pure BEV.
The Volt will be the greenest car on the market by far when it comes out. Think of the range extender as a “neccessary evil” at this point until batteries are good enough to fly solo with decent range and size.
NPNS!
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:31 pm)No such rule. Just an fyi, there’s a Chevy dealer (yes I called them “CHEVY”) in San Francisco that will get a few that I know of. Crap, I forgot their name. A buddy of mine from there told me. Gonna do a test drive when they get one in.
can’t buy cuz no $$$….lol. Oh well.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:32 pm)No it doesn’t. The credit goes to the buyer when he/she files the tax returns. If GM were to lease the vehicle, they can potentially apply the credit right away when calculating lease rates, like Nissan is doing.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:32 pm)I think it’s a simple case of once bitten twice shy.
GM CANNOT afford to build 100K cars if they don’t sell.
In this case the Nintendo strategy is the most sound business decision, even though it likely knocks me out of the running for a Volt.
I DID note that I can buy a new Caddy CTS-4 for $39k Cdn here in Calgary… thats the one with the ’small’ 3.0 litre 270hp engine. (I can just see the gas guzzler comments brewing!!)
Maybe my move to electric will wait a full car purchase/wear out cycle.
(our last new car was our 2002 Subaru impreza, 230000km and counting)
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:36 pm)If you did that in Texas, you would pay both CA and TX sales tax. TX sales tax is 8.25% x $40k = 3300 bux.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:43 pm)Yup, what he said.
)
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:47 pm)Good Luck!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:50 pm)Agreed. My thoughts exactly.
A highly desirable product with no competition and will sell out immediately. Talk about a good position to be in!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:55 pm)This is sort of stretching the concept of “mass produced”. When GM ramps up production Volts will account for 2500 units a month, a little more than 1% of its monthly production. Way too small a number to be considered mass produced. Way too small a number to drive down costs. By comparison, the Leaf when ramped up with compose 16% of Nissan’s monthly production.
Which company do you think is committed to moving forward with EVs?
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:01 pm)Obviously, Nissan. But I’m still hoping that GM will change its mind once they realize the actual demand…
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:10 pm)That’s great news! I’m glad to hear this.
I am suprised to read your impressions as they are so contradictory of a lot of other people’s opinions here. Posts like yours are becoming a rarity. To reiterate:
1. You put down money and are on an official list at a Chevy dealership to recieve a Volt.
2. You are content and satisfied with the decision you made.
3. You actually said, “GM is doing the rollout right”.
4. You feel this a car that shouldn’t be rushed to market.
Absent in your post was:
1. Vitreol hatred for GM as a company.
2. Complaining about the roll-out numbers.
3. Comparisons of the Volt to the Leaf.
4. Comparisons of Apples to Oranges.
5. Complaining about GM leadership and their obvious evil bent along with video proof of puppies being kicked and flowers being tramped on.
6. Worship of Nissan and how they are genetically incapable of wrong-doing.
7. Worship of Toyota and how they are genetically incapable of wrong-doing.
8. Reminiscing and a folk-song sing along about the EV-1.
9. Blame going to Bob Lutz.
10. Complaining GM hypes the Volt too much.
11. Complaining GM doesn’t hype the Volt enough.
12. Paranoia of EREV competitors that don’t even exist.
You get the picture.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:12 pm)I didn’t even ask any questions. I figured they would have already dispensed all the information on display. I took pictures of the signs though. It never occurred to me to ask them to show me the engine. And opening the hood of the car would have told me exactly nothing.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:14 pm)#19 – Tom, “As one of the original people here to sign up three years ago, it’s a little disappointing although I figured this was the case from all the recent developments and news.”
Ya, me too, number ~8900 something. That’s why I placed my $99 deposit back in April so I could start driving an EV sooner than mid 2012.
“the long-lived GM-Volt want list will not be used in any way, that instead they will be “going through their dealer body.” – Still appreciate your hard work Lyle, even though GM has no intention of using the want list…
GO EV!!!
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:15 pm)Why is it that people have no problem believing Nissan when they say they are going to produce 500K a year? I believe they will make more Leafs than Chevy makes Volts, but NO WAY will they get to 500K per year anytime soon. Particularly if the car has problems by being rushed to market.
I am sorry to be in the minority here today, but the limited rollout by GM for the Volt is right on target. They would be foolish to do anything different with something this critical to their survival. They will also be able to ramp up rather quickly to meet demand if it materializes.
Its up to those here to make sure the demand materializes. And that’s not by adding your name to a fan list (like I have done in the past). Its by putting real money down for the car (which I did this morning).
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:18 pm)(click to show comment)
-8