With the launch of the Volt nearly upon us, GM has finally provided some detail as to how they plan to go about the rollout process, and how some of the luckier and wealthier among us might be able to go about getting one.
The information was provided by GM’s Volt marketing director Tony DiSalle in a webcast in which he took reader’s questions.
He explained GM will produce 10,000 Volts from the end of this year through the end of next calendar year, and that they will produce 30,000 Volts in the 2012 calendar year. He noted that GM has been electronically communicating with every Chevrolet dealer across the nation what their Volt allocation will be and asked them if they wish to sell Volts and/or service them. Specific requirements for these dealers will not formidable and will include having personnel trained in Volts sales and Volt service, an the installation of two 240 Volt chargers.
He also explained those dealers will have to keep one Volt on the premises for demonstration and test drive purposes. He said he anticipates the car will be “very hot” and that dealers may not be able to keep any in inventory.
He said specifically GM will not maintain a centralized waiting list, and in personal communication with me said the long-lived GM-Volt want list will not be used in any way, that instead they will be “going through their dealer body.”
To get a Volt, DiSalle is recommending people “to go see the dealers.”
A given dealer’s allocation number will be based on that dealership’s regular sales volumes, so that busier dealers will get more Volts and smaller dealerships few if any. GM is then asking the dealers to reply back as to whether they want that allocation.
DiSalle expects most “medium and large volume dealerships will participate.”
He also expects that dealers outside of the launch markets will agree to service training, to help customers who might need service while driving away from home.
DiSalle is encouraging participating dealers to start their own waiting lists, and interested customers to get themselves on them. Placing a deposit is not necessary he says.
“The (dealers) can build their waitlists in conjunction with their particular allocation,” said DiSalle. “Deposits are not requirement of getting on dealers waitlist.”
The states of California and Michigan, and the cities of Washington DC, Austin Texas and New York will start receiving Volt deliveries “by the end of this calendar year,” said DiSalle. He declined to confirm the November (or sooner) delivery date.
By mid-2011 the entire states of New York, Texas, New Jersey, and Connecticut will be getting Volt deliveries. From there, GM will continue to announce new launch regions until finally all areas of the nation have Volts for sale.
“We’ll be adding markets halfway through the 2011 calendar year as we are getting into the 2012 model year,” said DiSalle.”We have very intention of selling in 12 to 18 months in all 50 states.” By the time all states have allocation it will be into the second calendar year of production beyond the first 10,000 units.
DiSalle believes all the initial Volt allocations will sell out “very very quickly.”
“We do have estimates for demand,” said DiSalle. “This is a movement that we are trying to create here.”
“It will require continued investment and communication,” he said. “We’ll continue to market the car, we understand we’ll be short early.”
Like it or not, at least now we know what to expect. What is your opinion?
Full Video Webcast:
This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 7th, 2010 at 6:13 am and is filed under Dealers, Launch, Marketing. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+32
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:21 am)So, GM knows that they will sell out, they are steadfast in not producing product to meet demand?
I have never seen another product or manufacture handle a new product introduction this this way …
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:27 am)“It will require continued investment and communication,” he said. “We’ll continue to market the car, we understand we’ll be short early.”
This may explain the slow ramp up, but I am still very curious about any additional costs. Waiting is hard. But I AM on the local dealer’s list.
+40
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:31 am)The announcement basically divides the country into winners and losers.
Those of us who are losers can congratulate the winners — and we do.
I hope Volt proves to be a great car for each of you who gets one.
For the rest of us, I think Mr. DiSalle is basically saying, forget the Volt, move on with your lives on some other track. So, there not being a choice about it, we will.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:32 am)But we’re talking about oil independence here!
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:32 am)While I feel this is BS, it’s par for the course. Big markets and big dealers will get it 1st. Unfortunately, by the time it hits my market, there will be tons of competition and GM won’t be a no brainer anymore.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:33 am)I’m wondering when GM will start manufacturing the E-85 version… 2012 model year?
+30
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:41 am)Good to see they’ll be utilizing the want list…basically saying “good luck” to 53k committed buyers.
And some people wondered why GM needed government funding….
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:44 am)So, all the hype and BS about signing up for a “waiting list” or “want list” a few years ago was just a lot of smoke and mirrors. Those of us that have been following the Volts development these past few years are basically being tossed into the chum barrel with everyone else.
GM has been blowing smoke up everyone’s butt since the first Volt went into production. It was suppose to be a cheap (approximately $20K) affordable car. It is now ballooning to nearly $40K.
GM makes it very hard to remain brand loyal.
From a C5 Corvette and Pontiac Torrent owner.
+8
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:44 am)One additional thing about this announcement (and it is significant) is that each dealer must have one Volt as a demo unit. This will reduce the number of units available to customers, but it will contribute significantly to the exposure of the car to the public. Also, it means that there will be a supply of “used cars” eventually. Also, question for Lyle, are all of these demo units “production units” or will some of them be from the pool of preproduction units?
Also, GM continues to demonstrate that they REALLY pay attention to the good ideas presented on this web site. Again, kudo’s to Lyle and to everybody here that offers positive input. Thanks so much to all contributors. You have affected me if nothing else.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:45 am)Imagine if the government had said they’re going to do a calculated roll-out of national health-care, starting in 5 states.
+27
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:45 am)GM better start ramping up production now. The Leaf will take away a ton of market share and you can be sure that Toyota-Tesla, Honda, Hundai and Mitsubishi will offer clones within a year or two. GM has a golden chance to jump out in front, but it looks as if old school thinking is clouding their judgement.
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:46 am)I am beginning to believe that GM thinks that 30k in 2012 is the market demand. In a backwards sort of way I think this is good news. In order for the demand to be that low, the price will be higher than expected by many, i.e. base model in $37k to $40k range. This means that the Volt may actually be profitable, instead of a loss leader. GM needs profitability now.
+20
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:46 am)Please look up a company called Nintendo. They are famous for this strategy.
+8
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:48 am)This is just the beginning…. 40,000 Volts over the next two and a half years is not THAT bad…..I think the floodgates will open when: (A) GM has experience with a few years of real world / real people “using and abusing” the new technology. Ordinary people have a way of devising all kinds of insane tortures to put a product through that logically thinking engineers would never dream of. (B) When the competition “catches up” and starts selling their own versions of the Volt. It’s all good.
+19
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:53 am)It sucks!
I can understand why GM would only produce a small number of the 2011 model. They have to ramp up the production line, and this can take up to a year to do properly.
But GM originally said they would produce 60,000 model 2012 Volts, and they have given no valid reason why they’re not going to do this.
I’m starting to agree with others when they say “over-promise and under-deliver”.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:59 am)I don’t think so. They acknowledge demand will probably be much higher with statements like:
“He said he anticipates the car will be “very hot” and that dealers may not be able to keep any in inventory.”
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:03 am)Let’s hope so. If the Volt had real competition, I’m sure they would produce more than 30,000 in 2012.
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:09 am)The gm volt dot com waiting list may have kept the Malibu mule test car alive during GM’s lean restructuring period.
I first found this site when the list had about 6000 email addresses on it. I didn’t sign on at that time. Because I was concerned that GM would not want to produce the Volt. And that if they did, it may have quality issues. After following the early designing. And seeing the care being placed on the car. My email address was entered as number 10576 on the list.
The combined voices of the many thousands here on this list are enabling GM to believe in the electric Volt.
=D-Volt
+18
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:11 am)I think this is really what we all expected. Still it’s disappointing to hear it officially. The strange thing is we’ve been hearing how GM “has the ability” to increase production to meet demand. Yet they are only making 40,000 volts in the next 2 1/2 years.
Personally I think if they did a nationwide rollout they would sell 40,000 in the first month. What do you guys think?
Either they don’t have the ability to make more or they really do want the demand to completely outstrip supply and create the “Nintendo effect” as Texas pointed out.
As one of the original people here to sign up three years ago, it’s a little disappointing although I figured this was the case from all the recent developments and news.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:12 am)GM mentioned this possibility a while ago, but nothing since.
It may take a federal mandate. Foreign car makers don’t make that many FlexFuel cars. American car companies want to compete, and $100 on the profit margin does affect things. A FlexFuel mandate for all new cars would create a level playing field. And this was one of Obama’s campaign promises:
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/factsheet_energy_speech_080308.pdf
“Mandate All New Vehicles are Flexible Fuel Vehicles. Sustainably‐produced biofuels can create jobs, protect the environment and help end oil addiction – but only if Americans drive cars that will take such fuels. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will work with Congress and auto companies to ensure that all new vehicles have FFV capability – the capability by the end of his first term in office.”
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:12 am)The whole roll-out thing is becoming increasingly irritating. It does not look like it will ever be possible to buy one except in a few specialised markets in USA. What about the rest of the world?
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:13 am)John, the demo should be a perfect car, and immaculate.. not a sloppy pre-production model.
I would like to know how this actually works.. will the dealer keep that demo available for a few weeks or a year?.. how insistent is GM that they keep a demo?.. what are the penalties otherwise?.. I would think it would be to the dealers advantage (and at their expense) to keep a demo always available, this will bring traffic into their showrooms and then you tell your coworkers how nice the new GM lineup is.
Hopefully the dealers will be smart about it..Having to retain one of their 8 car allocation Volts as a demo will be a painful experience.. so when you go in to see the Volt be nice and polite.. dont start screaming NPNS and dont even mention about the EV-1.. and no disparaging the Cruze either
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:15 am)really, Money Pit? a couple recent ones come to mind. Nintendo Wii (and wii fit plus) and Apple iPhone. Artificial shortage = increased demand.
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:16 am)Again, I think the manufacturing engineers need up to a year to ramp up the production rate properly. We don’t want any lemons.
So I understand the 2011 production numbers. This makes sense.
But there’s no excuse for 30,000 in the second year. GM hasn’t given any good reason for that, and this really bothers me.
+9
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:17 am)What’s sad about the quantity of Volts is that GM will be a has been in the electric car market by the time they are able to satisfy demand. People will be pissed off, price gouging will be rampant for months and customers will be so frustrated they’ll turn to the first viable alternative vehicle.
If Sony rolled out the Playstation game console in this manner, it would never have become the dominate player in the world.
I think GM is being absolutely ridiculous. If you want to capture the market, dazzle the stockholders and boost your bottom line, you make all the product the market can handle. I get an uneasy feeling that GM executives or accountants want neither.
+10
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:21 am)Or they dont want to recall 30,000 cars.. imagine if they had to replace 30,000 battery packs due to fire hazards.. there would be 30,000 owners with idle unusable cars waiting 1-2 years for production of replacement packs to catch up. Can you imagine the screaming and bad publicity?
Yes I know of all the testing, but still it would only take one fire and a swarm of lawyers to do it. You cant blame GM for being cautious with the roll out.
GM may also lose money on this generation, so why would they rush to increase production.. what is the benefit?
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:22 am)Already, a week later, this video is old. The color choices have been expanded to include yellow.
This is an interesting car and I think I will try getting one sometime in 2011. It’s like the lottery. Ya gotta play to win!
The good thing is that I’m not desperate for this or any car. I plan ahead so that I’m not driving junk like in my youth.
To us, it seems like they are repeating the same thing over-and over. In reality, there are constantly new people seeing this car for the first time. The education of Joe Six-Pack about the electric car movement will take some time.
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:26 am)DiSalle on why the dealers will have demo units in the showroom at all times:
“There is no better way to market and sell the Volt than to put people in it”
Really Tony? How about making more of them! I think that would be a better way to sell more Volts!
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:27 am)Slow initial rollout for a new model with new technology with high manufacturing costs is a solid risk mitigation strategy, especially in this market and with the many unknowns involved. GM didn’t promise everyone would get one in the first year. They promised they’d make it available, period. Believe me, when & if they see they can make a profit on these production will be ramped. It will take years despite the enthusiasm of the first few.
I don’t worry about the Leaf because I know I (and almost everyone I know) could never consider it as a primary vehicle due to 100 mile range and long recharge times. You can’t drive it accross most states in a day. Classic niche vehicle. The Volt is a different story yet still allows full electric driving on the majority of commutes.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:29 am)http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/07/autos/volt_production/index.htm
CNN has an article this morning about the pathetic number of Volt vehicles to be produced, titled: “Chevy Volt coming… Good luck getting one”
This is the most telling I feel:
“GM plans to build only 10,000 Volts in 2011.That works out to a selling rate of, at the most, about 835 Volts a month. GM currently sells more Cadillac Escalades than that and it’s a fraction of the sales for a popular model like the Chevrolet Malibu, of which GM sold 21,000 last month.”
My take, they are building only enough volts to match the SUV penalty for corporate MPG. Also they will make each and every month enough Malibus to equal more than the first 17 months of Volt production.
GM doesn’t want the Volt, actions speak louder than words!
Is it just me, but GM’s Volt marketing director Tony DiSalle looks like the typical salesman that would say, BUY A SUV, only sissy’s would want a Volt!
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:35 am)OK, I understand the reasoning behind the following statement;
“A given dealer’s allocation number will be based on that dealership’s regular sales volumes, so that busier dealers will get more Volts and smaller dealerships
few if any.”
But we, the buying public, who want to buy a Volt, don’t know “dealership’s regular sales volumes”. It would be smart of GM to supply a list of dealers and sales volumes or a list of dealers by Volt allocation number. I don’t want to waste time locating a dealer with Volts for Sale. Come on GM give us a break, we’re only trying to help.
126 Days and counting!
NPNS!
+8
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:38 am)My biggest disappointment is the fact that the Mid-West is totally ignored. I realize that Michigan is included in the roll-out, but geez, is there no one beyond me that is interested in the Chicagoland area? I’m not sure that driving/flying to Michigan is realistic to obtain a Volt. I will need a new vehicle next year and it may be that Chevrolet lost a Volt customer.
I just cannot believe that Chevrolet will under produce in 2011 if the demand is there. If they do they are shooting themselves in the foot…
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:43 am)I think they are being realistic, just because you have the demand, it doesn’t mean you have the capability to produce to meet it. If you hurry things to do so you risk (with a high probability) of turning out an inferior product that will cause demand to disappear.
I understand the approach.
*goes off to call all the Chevy Dealers in the DC area*
+8
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:48 am)This is a tough one.
On the one hand, many of the disappointed ones on this website see the hand of the ‘old’ GM still clinging to some rather failed strategies.
Optimists see a ‘cautious’ new GM that wants to get it right.
Seems to me, looking at it from an optimist’s viewpoint admittedly, that GM’s talk about Gen II and Gen III within a couple of years of this(late) Fall’s rollout suggests(and I pretend to be no expert at this) that the truly mass-produced car they want to see rolling on America’s highways and byways is an ‘advanced’ Volt, and not their first effort.
However, since it can be challenging if not impossible to get inside the mind(s) of a bureaucracy, optimism must always be served with a side order of caution.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:57 am)John K #9 said: One additional thing about this announcement (and it is significant) is that each dealer must have one Volt as a demo unit.
The only thing shoppers will not be able to experience from a demo, is the one reason they will buy it, even if the cup holders are too small, or the seats are too hard. “I hear most people who buy this car use very little gas over time.” If people can’t buy it, they can’t make those reports.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:00 am)I think this is poorly thought out. They’re just throwing it to the wolves as far as I can see. Seems kind of dumb to restrict the delivery to certain geographic areas, which I think they had a purpose for, but then just turn over the distribution to the local dealers. Why would a local dealer care where a buyer lives when he sells the things? They’ll sell it to whomever has the money ( I expect considerable over list price pricing) and anyone, regardless of where they actually live can get in line. So a person that lives in northeastern Tennessee can get on a list and get a Volt, which kind of defeats the purpose of limiting the geographic distribution, doesn’t it?
The other thing that bugs me is I would think they would want to make sure that the first group of these sold would be sold to people who are most likely to be successful with them. You would think they’d want to sell them to people who would maximize the under 40 mile range on a daily basis. They don’t appear to care about that with this approach.
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:03 am)Maybe GM does not have the capital to build higher volumes. The banks are reluctant to provide the 5 billion GM is seeking.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:05 am)Strange. On one hand, I never liked having posted so much for those here to push for more. On the other hand, there is some regret for not having strived for an even harder push. Having been through this supply/demand game before, it was easy to see what was to come and that the tone of that stance would not be liked. Yet, the outcome is unfolding as foreseen. Had to try. What happens now? What are the next steps? Any ideas?
+12
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:07 am)Looking it things from a GM perspective, Gen II and Gen III will retain the Volt name, will retain the flavor of Volt body styling, will retain the ipod-like display, and will cut the battery capacity by a factor of 10 or more. You can still plug it in, if that makes you happy, and GM can promote the great improvement made in diminishing the charging time (smile).
That way Gen II and Gen III will be much cheaper to manufacture, the car still can be the top of the line Cruze, and gm’s thinking will be that people in Iowa and Nebraska and Georgia will never know the difference. That is, the real Volt will be Gen 1. After that it will be cheap knock-offs, I imagine. This is the gm way, and they have not changed.
I think the Volt gen1 cars will be great, but also the end of the breed. For those of us in loser-land, we are going to have to find our car someplace else. Maybe Fisker, maybe BME, maybe Ford or Nissan, but some other manufacturer.
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:08 am)“A given dealer’s allocation number will be based on that dealership’s regular sales volumes, so that busier dealers will get more Volts and smaller dealerships
few if any.”
I can’t see how this will stimulate sales to people who have stopped buying or never bought GM products.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:15 am)Just wait till China starts to produce cars,
+17
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:16 am)I have a feeling it will be just like my 2006 Honda Insight. The Corporation elects to sell as few low profit items as they can to maintain the overall profitability of the company. GM would much rather sell you a big a$$ SUV and make the big bucks. Just like Honda would rather sell you a Honda Civic or Accord which they can build in 6-7000 dollars of profit instead of a Honda Insight they only make a couple hundred dollars on. The secret of course is to claim low sales but the reality is not make many available. When I bought my 2006 Insight there were only 4 for sale in the State of Florida. You can only guess how many Civics or Accords there were for sale. My closest dealer with one available was two hours drive.
This time I will fly 6 hours and drive two hours to make sure I get a Volt. It is up to you. What are you willing to do for a Klondike Bar.
Take Care,
TED
+17
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:30 am)“GM will produce 10,000 Volts…”
So that would be 10 kiloVolts, right?
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:32 am)They already have – and they produced a pure BEV vehicle two years ago. It failed miserably as they recorded less than 100 sales for the first full year and the Chinese Government bought 50+ of those.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:34 am)That would be intelligent, therefore not something our govt would do. Work out the bugs with a small group? Nah, screw it up with everybody.
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:41 am)(click to show comment)
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:43 am)(click to show comment)
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:45 am)What I’d like to know:
which dealer do I go to to possibly get one?
The Austin area has so many Chevy dealers, which one is the one that will get them first?
My time is expensive, and I can’t be running around to 10 area dealers, and perhaps get signed up for one, by a dealer that isn’t going to get the early cars. Secondly, GM ought to take a lesson from Apple or the software industry that has handled launches like this: Pre-orders. I don’t mean going down to the dealer with crisp bills and expecting them to hold one if they get one in.
I’m talking about taking a sizable down payment, and ensuring that folks get cars on the vehicles launch. If GM can meet my wage requirements, I’ll show em how it’s done…
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:48 am)AGREE AGREE AGREE.
A slow ramp up means others will have a chance to enter the market.
Many will be foreign with dollars and jobs leaving the country again.
GM has a golden opportunity to build to demand and create a loyal following for an exciting new technology. Folks will not wait forever especially if other ER BEVs come on line.
Let us hope GM knows what they are doing. ( if this decision is by a typical committee that is a bad sign.. I have had experience with a “GM committee” process and I believe it was one of the reasons GM went into bankruptcy )
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:48 am)I wonder if this statement is the real key in all of this. Think like an executive for a moment. What headline do you want to read on the front page of your favorite business publication?
“Volt Sales Projections surpassed in one week” and “Volt factory ramping up to meet demand” and “GM thrilled with Volt sales numbers” and “GM green lights other Voltec models”
or….
“Volt misses lofty sales projections by 100,000 cars” and “GM overly-optimistic as usual with Volt” and “200,000 Volts recalled on unforeseen quality flaw”
It’s hard when we don’t know the big picture. Now back to the rants.
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:56 am)Its done with the video game consoles market. Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft control their production to inflate demand and create false shortages.
+23
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:56 am)OK, here is my take on this:
1. GM is going to lose money on every Volt sold in the first model year.
2. They are worried about the “big problem” that did not show itself during testing.
3. There are simply not enough battery packs available right now.
4. The bigger the corporation, the more fear there is to put their jobs on the line.
So they are going to do this slow and easy. For the 2011 model year, I can understand this.
If these are their real problems, then what I don’t understand is why they are choosing to sell these cars to people that are not really good candidates as beta testers. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people right here that have the qualifications to put these cars through proper procedures and give back quality reports. They understand the risks and would be willing to put up with the growing pains for this new technology. IMHO, this is the proper way to ramp up, if you are not sure the technology is ready for prime time. Instead, GM is selling to movie stars and politicians, groups not really known for their patience and understanding. That could prove to be a real problem for GM, if there is some unforeseen problem that appears several months after delivery. I just think that their target market for the first 10K units is wrong. I can’t be more plain than that…..
For the 2012 model year, it is the cut in production from the announced 60K units to 30K units that is the most troubling to me. The new battery plant should be up and running, so there is a steady supply of battery packs. So why such a low production volume? But they continue to make contradictory statements.
I think what bothers most of us here is that GM seems absolutely determined not to tell us why they are making these decisions, which leaves us to speculate. And speculation usually leads to negative comments and conspiracy theories, again, which is not good for the image of GM.
I have been to my local Chevy dealership three times now. The first time, I was fluffed off. The second time, the general manager took my card, and said I was #1 on the Volt list. The third time, I was told that they have no information available as yet from GM when they would be likely to get authorized to sell this model. That is very frustrating.
I have been here a long time. My # on the now useless list is 1196. I have posted a few thousand times, and read tens of thousands of posts. I think I have a pretty good idea of how the Volt will operate. I was given the opportunity to test drive it in NYC. I have done my part to spread the word about the Volt, to the point of being muzzled by my friends if I mention the Volt one more time…. I can afford this vehicle. My driving patterns are perfect for the Volt. But GM has decided to just dump me in with every other person in the country that has little or no idea about what this car has to offer, and tells me to be patient while they decide when a Volt will be available in my local area. I guess I just don’t like being patronized. Give me enough information of what / when / where / how / why, and let me make a decision. Is that so difficult?
I apologize if it it sounds like I am whining. I am just very disappointed in that GM was so open during the development of this vehicle, and now that it is time to get it out to the open market, they have stopped telling us anything of real importance………..
But it sure will be fun to own a Volt in 2 or 3 or 4 more years, maybe!!!! <–<< Sarcasm Alert!
-31
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:01 am)(click to show comment)
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:13 am)There are a lot of old GM customers out there.
We have seen GM, so many times, introduce a car with a lot of hype and a good amount of inventory. That inventory wasn’t just one division. It was Buick, Olds, Pontiac and Chevy too. GM knew us as customers very well.
They got fat, the UAW got fat.
We got picky and said no more crap and went somewhere else, in droves.
Now we see the turnaround in GM coming up. They’re in the midst of creating a better way of staying in the business of selling cars. They are designing cars that are relevant, good, and profitable. Inventories are within a non restrictive level and per car discounts have been dramatically reduced.
Now comes the Volt. Never before in anyone’s marketing dreams at GM would anyone think they had a chance to sell a $35,000 Chevy compact…at volume, and make a buck. But here it is and we want it. We want a good dealer lot selection and the salesmen want a good inventory to push that impulse sale. We want discounts and the ability to just drive over to another dealer and give price ultimatums. For GM, that has been the method of losing profits not just to the competition but when competition is in the mirror, from it’s own network.
Now GM has given us a reasonable business plan for an expensive Chevy. They have told us that if we buy more they will make more, just not in the old GM business as usual way.
The Volt has a lot of content. It’s an expensive car for the parts as well as to manufacture. I don’t look forward to seeing the warranty cost for a simple water pump never mind the battery. Still, even with the risks involved, in a manufacturing perspective, the Volt is being done more right than just about any new car any manufacturer has developed to date.
It is a model of product development, marketing, manufacturing, and hopefully, sales!
When the hype is finally over we are going to have one helluva good car to buy. I’ll be in the market for Voltec gen3 and the choices will be excellent.
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:17 am)The information given to the dealers states that they must “purchase” a New VOLT which MUST be placed in the showroom AND be made available for demo rides. The dealer gets NO reimbursement for the cost of the vehicle and the operation of the vehicle. It MUST remain available for a minimum of 6 months. After that it was unclear if the dealer gets any incentive when it is sold as a used vehicle.
The costs associated with becoming a ‘Certified VOLT Sales and Service Center’ were much smaller than I thought it would be, and my General Manager signed up right away for the process.
+7
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:17 am)# 974 on the list…. don’t comment that often… But, here in Central Alberta, Canada…. 2014 ? might be the earliest that a Volt will arrive at a dealership..
A slow roll out may be good for testing but a HUGE rollout would bring out all the bugs (if any) a whole lot faster..
Maybe a battery shortage ( I heard or read that the capabitly right now is 60 K units per year and they are ramping up to meet demand)…..
Maybe the “old” GM should take a lesson from Apple (iphone)… Even if there are a few bad phones…. the other million phones are just fine…
With this slow roll out… I fear that the Volt is going to just a niche car for maybe 100,000 people and the quietly dissappear…
Wake up GM…. I know that on this “wish list” of people …. at least 35 % (myself included) will buy and another 20 – 30 % are going to go else where when they realize the wait will be years. and years to get one..
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:18 am)I got the feeling that they canned E85 for 2011 Volts for three reasons:
1. California has very few E85 stations. It’s an expense they didn’t need to make at this time.
2. The CS mileage would be 15-30% less than with E10. This is probably why Prius is not E85.
3. The gas engine controls would be more complex. E85 may throw so much extra complexity as to make the transition to CS mode not as smooth as they wanted.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:21 am)I wonder how many people plan to move now?
“Honey, we’re moving to California!”
“Why?”
“To be able to get a Volt!”
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:28 am)I seriously doubt that 35% of people who sign up on an anonymous list over the last four years are going to plunk down $40k for a car.
I also seriously doubt that up to 35% of the $99 people that signed up for LEAF will buy it either.
I think GM is second-guessing the demand for a $40k car as well in this economy. All they have to do is look at the percentage of LTZs vs LSs they sell right now. I bet it’s not pretty.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:32 am)Cool. That means that there are going to be hundreds of used Volts (demos) out there by this time next year. Glass half full
.
May the eBay links commence.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:35 am)Typical GM stupidity. Planning, engineering a super low production, next to impossible to get vehicle exactly when people really want to buy something they build for the first time in 30 years.
What a bunch of pathetic idiots….who hires these guys…and how in the world do they keep their jobs….
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:36 am)We were able to get into the top 5 on the list at one of the 3 Austin dealerships (yea!!!), though they did ask for a $500 deposit. In fact at least 2 of the 3 Austin dealerships I talked to asked for a deposit, fyi. It doesn’t bother me, but it was a little surprising after the comments DiSalle made in the webcast. I suspect lots of other dealers will be doing the same.
+9
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:37 am)As 1 of the 2 or 3 guys at our dealership who will be ‘Certified’ to demo the VOLT per GM requirements, I would be happy to demonstrate all the features and give a demo ride… But I tell you, if some troll wants to get in my face about it, my team will also be happy to throw them out of the showroom.
Maybe I should put up a sign: “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”…!!!
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:44 am)But in that case most would want to be in one of the other 45 states.
-16
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:46 am)(click to show comment)
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:46 am)If this turns out to be true… too bad for us and too bad for GM. Who will be the bigger loser???
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:46 am)Well, so much for the ‘no deposit should be required’.
I just talked to 5 dealerships in the DC area and 4 of 5 are requiring a $2000 deposit. I guess that would be because they don’t want people like me getting on lists at every dealership and giving a false impression of demand.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:48 am)Just more speculation here. No new information.
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:48 am)Only if YOU or your kids did not need it.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:50 am)A lot of assumptions here that haven’t been researched.
Everything is electric on this car. It runs on battery power for 40 miles with all accessories available (a/c, heat, radio, defrost, everything). The gas engine is just a generator and is not required until the battery charge gets too low to run everything.
It sounds like this car may be a little too modern for you. That’s not a slam. There are a lot of things to think about when buying something this progressive, different and expensive.
It’s kind of like buying an HD-DVD. Maybe it will be the standard, maybe not. Only the risk is higher between a $400 item and a $40,000 item.
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:50 am)I’ve been following this site from almost the start! Before that I was ranting and raving about the EV-1in Japan! I’m teary eyed that you folks starting with Lyle and the rest of you have kept me very well informed are being SHIT on! I hope for GM’s sake they recognize Lyle’s want list!
As we all know this is thee HOTTEST place for Volt news! The official site is LAME! When they talk about these totals, does this include the Ampera, too? I’m blown away going from the HIGH of the Freedom Drive to This! Awesome pictures! TKS!
Also for you folks that beleive Japan is a closed market you don’t have a clue! There are MB’s, Beemers, VW’s all over the place! They are firmly rooted here! GM? During the Bubble years there was so much American iron running around you woulda been amazed! Astro Vans were all over the place! The thing about it is that GM had nothing to do with most of them being here! Yesterday drove to Costco, about a 20 minute drive and I spotted 4 Harleys! Not wannabes! My first bike was a 68 Bonnie and later a Trident. Within about a 30 minute drive from my house there are 4 Harley dealers!
The world’s largest HD club is in Tokyo! I owned a 54 Rikuo. Did you know this was an exact copy of a 34 Harley cuz HD sold them all of their tooling to make it here. Then HD shit on them in the early 60′s!
In 79, Black Trans Am was thee #1 import car in Japan! I’ve owned 68, 70 Vettes, 68 Firebird, 67 Impala, and Camaros out the wazoo here! Some of them I bought in CA. I saved mucho yen cuz
I registered them myself! If I can do it, anybody can!
Guess what? You can import a whatever and get it on the road here! I’ve see it all, repaired and sold
parts for all kinds of American iron and the owners were fanatics! I advertised in 5 magazines that were
mostly devoted to American iron! The Bubble popped loooong ago!
Hey, if its a Japanese car 1964 and older you can import and get it on the road there! Try it with something later it ain’t gonna happen, unless you have mucho bucks to get it certified, send it back
or pay to have it destroyed! Yeah, I know I could part it out send to you as parts, you rebuild it
and maybe get it on the road! I’ve done it!
When I got out of the Army here I took back a 63 Jag. That’s why I know.
This market is wide open for QUALITY automobiles! What are my chance of seeing a Volt, here!?
Oh yeah, Suzuki sells mini vehicles emblazoned with Chevy, Bowties and one minivan is called a Stingray! Many, many Japanese along with me have a sincere fondness for thee Bowtie!
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:51 am)When you’re under pressure to build a car that you don’t want to make, one response is to build a very small number of the cars at insanely high prices and then claim “nobody wanted them”. Seems like Plan A for GM management.
GM might have gotten away with this except for Nissan. Nissan is demonstrating the way it needs to be done. Having publicly stated that in order to have prices of EV at a level comparable to conventional vehicles it needs worldwide sales of 500,000 – 1,000,000 copies, Nissan is doing everything it can to hit those numbers.
Case in point is the Leaf roll out. To begin with, the price of the Leaf is almost certainly under Nissan’s cost. That may pose some short term issues, but after rebates the Leaf will be about the same price as a comparably equipped Prius — which may be why 50% of the orders for the Leaf have come from Prius drivers. Plus the roll out offers a lease deal which effectively and painlessly passes on the federal tax credit to the customer. Finally, as a centrally run roll out, by allocating the cars by customer rather than by dealer it goes a long way towards ensuring that pricing above MSRP is unlikely to occur. GM, on the other hand, is going through the standard dealer network with numbers virtually guaranteed to lead to pricing above MSRP — whatever that price will be. Want to bet we’ll see a great lease deal?
Enough to make you cry.
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:52 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:55 am)For whatever it’s worth–I suspect the Volt will be “available” everywhere before it’s actually available without a mark-up in its initial launch markets.
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:55 am)(click to show comment)
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:57 am)no VOLT for me…
ok GM, I get the message — thanks. Lets see what Ford is selling.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:06 am)Hope your comment is TRUE TRUE..
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:10 am)If they are worried about a problem with the car o a lawsuit. I am willing to sign a waiver. if the car has a problem, i will not sue. We need to take that fear away so they can produce more cars. I think most people in this group will agree that we can help GM instead of abuse the system. We want this car to work for all of us.
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:14 am)You’re missing the big picture. Rolling out a new model is not as passive an endeavor as you’re thinking. The key is that demand is a function of price and cost is a function of volume. Because cost and volume are inextricably intertwined, until volumes go up — way way way up from what GM is talking about — GM can’t make any money on a per copy basis unless the price point for the car is astronomically high. The recipe in the car industry is pretty well established. High volumes –> lower costs –> lower MSRP –> more purchases –> higher volumes. GM seems committed to this cycle for the Volt, except that rather than aiming for high volumes and lower prices it is aiming for low volumes and high prices.
Whether this is replay of the EV-1 fiasco is for you to decide. But it’s clear that GM is not trying to push the Volt.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:17 am)Playing catchup with what?
The Volt driver doesn’t look in the mirror and see any competition.
The cars you mentioned will be a dime a dozen, sitting in the lots waiting for discounts to keep them from being obsolete. They are immensely useful for the little stuff, but they’re still just batteries on wheels. And you know how much batteries are changing. The new crop of BEV’s will be the closest thing to a disposable car. Maybe Nissan will come up with a use contract similar to the cellphone companies. Trade in that oxymoronic 5 passenger dead Leaf for the new 2 passenger disposable one. Maybe that’s the plan.
Oil?
It’ll be cheap enough to be relevant, maybe not for gasoline, but for diesel generators powering up all those quick charge stations you so want so bad.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:19 am)Probably a good idea, lots of joyriders around.. did they say anything about MSRP or “added dealer profit”?
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:20 am)I want my Volt, but…let’s keep some perspective. The tax credit for hybrids had a limit of just 60,000 vehicles from a manufacturer (the electric vehicle credit goes to 200,000 vehicles). We all know of the success of the Prius. However, Toyota also has the Camry and Highlander Hybrids in their lineup. Note that it took Toyota YEARS to reach this 60,000 number, even with 3 models to choose from. We got our Highlander Hybrid in August 2006 and the dealer was stating that they expected to roll over the limit during that quarter. I would like more Volts than the 30,000 promised, but looking at REAL WORLD numbers from recent experience, GM is being more realistic about what John Q Public is actually going to do with gas saving cars. It makes me sick that the average joe feels no sense of urgency to get us off oil, but we (on this site) would be naïve to fault GM for not producing a couple hundred thousand vehicles in two years time.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:20 am)Look at Lyle, getting his name out there in the MSM!
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/07/autos/volt_production/index.htm?hpt=T2
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:21 am)My guess about why GM is planning on lower numbers at first is for a number of reasons:
A: It takes time to streamline the supply chain, manufacturing processes, logistics, dealer and mechanic training.
B: While the Volt has been extensively tested, having a small number at first means that if problems turn up, the number of cars to be fixed is low and more manageable. Plus the PR for such a problem would be limited if the total recall were lower.
C: The very first cars will probably be the most expensive followed by a gradual decline in prices as better more efficient means are found for production. Thus lower numbers to ensure all that is produced can sell.
D: To create insatiable demand by making the cars seem rare and exotic. Perfect example: Jack Daniels, which in the 50′s was the favorite whiskey of Frank Sinatra and Elvis. It was a tiny distillery at the time. Once the public caught on there was an instant supply shortage. It took a few years for the distillery to ramp up production. Eve since it has been a highly desirable product. Perhaps the same is true with having a limited supply.
As far as the comments about concerns over the Leaf, Tesla, and so on, well first of all the Leaf is not at all the same car as the Volt. If anything the Leaf is a city car with has limited appeal due to its mere 100 mile drive range ( that and the Leaf is indescribably ugly) Tesla is 2 more years from supposedly launching the Model S, which in its lowest price range gets you a 160 mile range for $47,000 and upwards of $90k for a 300 mile range version. Tesla’s IPO didn’t exactly do that great. They could easily go the way of Delorean. Toyota seems to be suddenly advertising the heck out o the Prius because they’re probably aware of the shift in consumer interest once the Volt launches. Seeing as how they only recently started a relationship with Tesla I’d say Toyota is still a few years away from having a competitive Volt equivalent.
Yes- I’d love to have a Volt. But I’m a cheap-skate and thus I probably won’t. But I think GM has a real winner here and 10,000 for the first year and 30,000 by 2012 doesn’t sound that bad.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:22 am)If I can’t get one this year, I probably won’t get one anytime soon. The $7500 tax credit expires this year, right?
+11
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:23 am)I am VERY disappointed that GM did not use Lyle’s Want List for the VOLT, especially in the initial rollout markets. The ‘early adopters’ here would definitely be the BEST salespeople for the VOLT, just on enthusiasm alone!
I can just see those initial VOLT owners pulling in to a grocery store parking lot and being swarmed by onlookers. (Try to remain calm and friendly… People are going to be asking you a lot of questions…)
I certainly hope that GM surprises us all with a BIG announcement of increased production. I am sad to report that I can count the number of VOLTs on our (initial) allocation on less than 10 fingers.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:25 am)I hope GM has not forgotten what NPNS means!
No Plug No Sale!
I won’t buy or lease any new car that does not come with a plug and lithium ION battery.
NPNS, NPNS, NPNS!
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:27 am)If all the dealers have mark-ups on the Volt, how could they possibly claim that “nobody wanted them?” By definition, that means demand exceeds supply. If anything Nissan will “help” in that regard since it will draw away at least some of the initial adopter demand.
I think that its more likely that GM’s current management is very risk averse, and skeptical of demand. They’re about to the get the shock of their lives. Hopefully, it won’t be too late for them to adjust…
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:30 am)FYI, I’ve been in contact with a few local dealers. One said they require a $1000 non-refundable deposit. They would be selling the car at MSRP. The guesstimate the price MID-UPPER 30s. They have 2 people on the list now.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:31 am)Lyle, You and this site are mentioned in this CNN report. In case you didn’t see it already:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/07/autos/volt_production/index.htm?hpt=T2
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:33 am)I had my Finance Manager put these numbers together for me. For those of you who have purchased a nicely equipped Silverado Crew Cab LT, these number are nothing new, except for the Federal Rebates:
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:35 am)The worst thing of all is having to go through a dealer that’ll know jack about the Volt, do their damnedest to get you into whatever else they have on their lot if they have no Volts, and almost certainly engage in price-gouging.
The dealership experience is and always will be the worst part of buying a vehicle. If only we could buy factory-direct from GM-owned and operated showrooms!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:38 am)I’m not talking to myself here. You must be another Gary on this planet. Who would have thought?
Anyways, I don’t know where this over hyped and under delivered part comes from. A car isn’t developed in a day. It takes years.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:40 am)Maybe. Just not so soon.
I like the November roll out. In the winter of 2012, someone will walk into an Albany Nissan dealership and say “I want a Leaf.”
Salesman’s answer? “No you don’t!”
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:40 am)It applies to the first 200,000 made by each manufacturer.
http://www.energy.gov/taxbreaks.htm
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:48 am)===========
No, I didn’t get beyond the deposit requirement. That means I will have to pick one to give the deposit to (and get in writing the circumstances of the return of the deposit – I can’t believe one guy just wanted me to give him $2000 over the phone with no indication of when/if/how I would apply it to the cost/get it back when I complete the purchase/get it back if I decide I don’t want the car – if they tack on a $10,000 premium over invoice for instance).
I’ll cover that ground when I decide who I’m giving my deposit to.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:48 am)#71 My first post! I read it several times and my 3rd paragrah was all there. It’s vanished! Is it because I said basically GM has never really given a damn about the Japanese market!? What car has GM made that’s RHD for Japan? Unless less you wanna call a Suzuki wannabe a GM!
MB, BMW, VW, Fiat, many others are firmly entrenched here! GM is flackey! During the Bubble, fully decked Astro Vans were all over the place! Very few had GM’s involvement in getting them here! Visitors from the States often were amazed seeing them! Private importers and buyers were crazy about them. I often saw Astro Van Club, conyoys heading down the road or parked in front of my shop! GM turned a blind eye!
So please knock off that crap about Japan being a closed market!
If the Volt is truly a world beater it will be here!
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:52 am)ABSOLUTELY AGREE. And Toyota didn’t listen. After I bought my Prius in 2008, I told the dealer I would buy no more vehicles until I could plug them in. I had read about the plug in concept and it seemed like an awesome idea. Note that Toyota brought plug in versions of the Prius to California YEARS ago for trial. Their progress can be measured in GEOLOGIC time. If you think GM is taking too long, don’t ever think Toyota is an option. While I bought THREE Toyota hybrids in two years, their lackluster approach to getting onboard the plug-in train ensures I will not be buying anything else from them. Go Volt. NPNS-indeed!
-8
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:56 am)GM has the understanding and knowledge of the unprecedented demand for this car yet they cap the numbers to a mere 10K. I don’t thinkg GM has ever seen such demand for a single product, not even for the Camaro. Yet keep a lid on the the numbers. A “Golden” opportunity is to be had but it won’t be by GM running the way they are, back to the olden days….
Tsk tsk….
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:56 am)Geez, how much they cost???!!!????
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:01 am)I think you are so right in this comment. It’s very frustrating. I’ll probably not see a Volt available in my local market till 2012 or 2013. By then I will be owning some other new car. This situation also leaves me less interested in hanging out at GM-Volt.com. Why go to the dance when you have to stand along side the wall while the others have all the fun?:(
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:02 am)Let’s be realistic on the small volume being made the first year – while we may like to think it’s a marketing ploy to build demand because people always want what’s harder to get – the fact is it’s a new technology that is not fully road tested in real world conditions and EVERY new car model has a few bumps they hit in the first year – long story short – better to recall 10,000 of these – if needed – rather then 40,000+ even if they could make that many and more the first year.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:03 am)OH, that’s simple. They’ll just say that at MSRP or even above they lost money on every copy. Look what Lutz has said about the EV-1. That was a very expensive car yet by talking in current dollars he dismisses it as being very affordable.
We’ll have a better idea when see the price. The Leaf is at $32.5k before rebate. At best the Volt might support a $5k premium. So we’ll see how aggressive the pricing is. At $40K or north there may not be that much of a waiting list. There isn’t a waiting list for Tesla Roadster’s at $125,000, which doesn’t mean a lot of people wouldn’t want one. It just means there isn’t a lot of demand at that price.
Nissan has essentially sold out of its first two years of production. But that’s at $27K after the federal rebate.
-16
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:05 am)(click to show comment)
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:14 am)Long time admirer, first time poster here…
I just put in requests with many of the CT Chevy dealers, to be placed on their Volt lists. I am getting mixed reactions, from “We should be getting one soon”, to “I have a Volt coming between March and May of next year”.
Sounds like this could be a long next few months…the lease on my Corolla expires in September 2011; I’m hoping I don’t have to lease another car while I’m waiting for the Volt to finally become available at a reasonable price.
+5
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:17 am)Dave, have you heard of the internet; oh sorry …. your posting here so you obviously know how to use it. Tony DiSalle announced that it will be sending an eLetter to each dealer giving it its allocation of Volts. Why don’t you just email the dealers on your possible list and ask them? Then you won’t be wasting your time. I’m amazed that you didn’t think of this yourself
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:19 am)Can I go to a Volt Dealership and put down a deposit and order what I want rather than being on a waiting list?
-9
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:24 am)GM is doing a terrible job at this by not producing nearly enough of these vehicles. they are also doing a terrible job of promoting the technology and showing people how it works. Most people still think they have to get some special kind of plug to charge the thing….
No wonder you guys can’t make any money.
I was thinking about buying one too, but I’m pretty sure I’m going with a different brand of EV. My father was going to purchase one of these, but when we heard the low production numbers, he put a deposit on one of the new Tesla sedans.
Its pretty upsetting at the poor performance by GM.
I’m getting a Coda….
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:25 am)They say the same thing about China too. But Who’s GM biggest customer and bought the most GM cars? China.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:29 am)Corvette Guy: Is it possible at time of purchase to deduct the $7500 tax credit from the purchase price? Many posters to this web site have said for quite some time that a Volt buyer would only be able to “access” their credit when they file their annual tax return.
I wonder about the price that the state sales tax would apply to. Would the sales tax be on the higher before tax credit price or the lower net price after factoring the tax credit? It seem to me that if the tax credit were applicable only at the time of filing your annual federal tax return, then the sales tax would be on the before-tax-credit price, the price the buyer actually paid for the car.
I hope we can see how this all actually plays out. The dollars involved are truly significant.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:31 am)Lol.
-3
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:35 am)Or Mr DiSalle could be saying, ‘for the rest – we’re sorry, please be patient for GM is not in a position to take a chance with a mass rollout and blow it — you see, there are things about the Volt which you do not know about yet which, when exposed, may greatly slow demand or may not slow down demand – the fact is, it’s too early to tell which way things will go until the Volt becomes available for sale. Then and only then will we know the direction the Volt will be heading. Just know this – if the market accepts the Volt for all that it is, you may rest assured that GM has preparations to ramp up production and expansion of markets as rapidly as possible.’
What could those unknown things be?
PRICE (MSRP) – Is the market ready and willing to pay in the high $30k’s before tax incentives?
FUEL CONSUMPTION – If the Volt only goes 300 miles on a nine gallon tank for an underwhelming 33 mpg – will people focus on that aspect and conclude the Volt is overpriced for its mediocre mileage, or will that not matter because people realize the true virtue of the Volt is that its 40 mile gas free range will encompass most driving that they’ll do?
I guess we’ll all just have to stay tuned.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:38 am)This is exactly the type of thing that happens when there’s no competition.
The Volt desperately needs competition, and by that I mean a car that:
• runs on electricity or gasoline
• has at least 30 miles of all-electric range, meaning the gas engine isn’t needed for full power
• is built by a major car maker, with a network of dealers throughout the U.S.
• is real, with an announced production date
By this simple definition, the Volt has no competition. For the last 3 years, people on this site have been saying that other car companies are working on this and will announce something soon, but it has never materialized.
This is a huge problem. Without competition, GM will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drive customers away. You have to give them a tangible reason to compete. And as we’ve seen today, it takes more than a great product to be competitive…
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:42 am)I think, it makes sense for GM to go through their regular dealers. Of course, it reduces availability in the first one to two years, due to those cars, that the dealers have to use for showcasing it, and due to regional differences: One dealer may run out quickly, while another one still has cars.
On the other hand, the Volt and its successors will with time become normal cars, that are sold and serviced by normal dealers. If GM made the dealers angry by selling the Volt exclusively (or even in parallel) over the internet at this time, would fire back at GM in the long run.
It is also understandable, that they ramp up production slowly. Electric motor, generator, power conversion units and especially the battery: These are all parts, that car manufacturers are new to, and that they have to learn to produce in quantity. I am certain, that all initial Volts will have to be called back for some repairs. Better do that on 10,000 cars than on 50,000.
Finally, over-demand also helps to get good news. Better we read: “Initial Volt production sold out” and not: “Volts are stockpiling at the dealers”.
And, although many people claimed, a lot of competition will show up quickly: Those competitors like Nissan Leaf are mostly “pure” electric cars. Plug-in-hybrids are still scarce.
Kai
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:42 am)At the NYC July 4th event, I told the engineer there that now that GM is rolling the Volt out also in New York, that this is now a deal changer for me, since I am on the order list for the Leaf. Well it looks like, the deal changer is broken, and I will gladly accept my Leaf.
All of us here at this blog have been doing GM’s work and promoting the Volt. Now we are tossed aside. GM knows that the dealers will mark up the initial Volts, and they are ok with that because it helps their dealer network stay in place and recoup some lost revenues…..
The BYD and Zapworld EV’s are looking tempting too…..
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:43 am)I have several dealerships within 10 miles. Anyone know of a way to tell what their sales volume is?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:50 am)… and last a year at maximum. That’s $8000 over ten years, plus service cost to replace the batteries. Lead-acid batteries are good, if they survive 100 full cycles. Typically car starter batteries die after just a few dozen cycles, even. For starter batteries, that is not a problem. They are discharged just a tiny bit, when a car is started, then charged again to full power level.
In addition, lead-acid batteries have limited power density. Don’t expect to be able to drain over 100 Kilowatts out of an 8 kWh lead-acid battery.
On the other hand, the only 50% utilized Lithium-Ion battery is supposed to last at least a decade, with daily cycling. That’s over 3000 charge-discharge-cycles, not just 300.
Kai
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:52 am)Now GM wonders why they are behind foreign carmakers. Make more you idiots!
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:52 am)Lyle,
I am positive there exists an enterprising dealership with high “regular sales volumes” and high “Volt allocation number” that would be very happy to get your list. Please help us find these dealers since GM could care less.
NPNS!
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:54 am)Consider the latest version of the Apple iPhone. They tested the daylights out of it, had a lot of outside-of-lab, real world, employee use experience (recall one got left at a bar several months before product launch), thought they had a cool idea putting the antenna into the metal outer trim. And then the public gets hold of it and finds that they’re killing the signal strength just by where they put their fingers. Apple’s response: put a rubber band around the thing. Even if it’s only a small percentage of users and calls that are functionally affected, Apple gets a big black eye in the larger community — including in the view of potential future purchasers.
Fast forward to the Volt. Tested extensively. Real-world experience by employees. Launch the product in a huge wave and tell people to put a rubber band around the inevitable problems? *That* would be the old GM. As a senior digital systems architect in my office once put it, “it’s hard to make things foolproof because fools are so darned ingenious.”
Some number of gm-volt posters seem bummed because it won’t be possible in the first year to walk into any random Chevy dealer and pick a Volt from the 27 on the lot to drive home that day. The solution is simple. Go to a Chevy dealer, ask if they’re keeping a list, get on it. I did and I’ll be one of the earliest in the region to have one. And they didn’t ask if I was a politician or movie star.
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:54 am)I echo your sentiments sir. GM has mised two major opportunities.
First is the No E85. WTF were they thinking? End dependence would have been started right there IMHO.
Second, Use of only 8KWh out of the 16KWh. Later they found that this is overkill on “babying” the pack. Most other EV manufacturers came to that conlusion over a year ago and GM just now figured that out. Coda, iMiEV and the LEAF all take the packs down to at least 75%-80% DOD, if you do the same for the Volt you just might get 65-70 mile EV range.
If GM just did that, I would support it. But nope. They waste energy carrying around 50% mor battery and no E85.
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:55 am)So far, we have no word if the Federal Tax Credit can be applied at the time of purchase. I doubt it, but as we get closer to the November elections, and if our current president is still suffering in his approval rating, MAYBE he will find a way to change that ruling and let us apply it right away, similar to the “Cash-for-Clunkers” program.
As far as State Sales Tax, that is ALWAYS calculated on the purchase price BEFORE any Rebates. (Yeah. I know it sucks, but it’s not my fault.)
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:56 am)The Volt is supposed to be a mainstream car. The kinds of questions Bum asks will be common for new mainstream users. Once they know the answers (which won’t take long), demand for the Volt will skyrocket.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:56 am)The only other company I know of that kept low production despite high demand was Ty and their Beanie Babies
This might be an apples and oranges comparison, but hey, it worked out well for them, didn’t it? Maybe the Volt will be the “Beanie Baby” of this decade.
NPNS!
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:00 pm)As we move closer and closer to the launch I’m getting more and more surprised that a price hasn’t been announced.
Apart from that, I am taken back a little by the noticeable whine theme coming through today’s thread. You would think that by reading these posts, a lot of you had your own car company and knew exactly what the hell it takes to roll out brand new technology to the masses!
Or is the whine coming from the fact that mommy or daddy promised you a Volt for Christmas or your birthday and you may not get it?
Criminy people, let’s just stay a little frosty here and realize this is grounding breaking automotive technology. This car company gets bashed for a failed attempt at the EV1 and then gets bashed for not rolling out the next attempt with the Volt in such massive quantities so that every American on their quest for self-fulfillment through the purchase of the latest marvel can’t get their instant gratification nipple tweaked.
Relax, they’ll get here.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:01 pm)I am all for….100% Volt. However, it is beyond belief that a company that just went through what they have gone through….bankruptcy, ridicule, layoffs, billions in tax payer subsudies and they still do not get it. By the time they get to 2012 both Nissan and Toyota will have beat them to the punch…..again. GM will be left by the wayside talking again about how “great things will be….one day.”
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:02 pm)Might be better to call it something else, if Gen I is perceived as a high cost premium model with bullet proof engineering, wouldn’t a lot of people seeking a lower priced car just avoid it?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:06 pm)Hahahaha! I’d give you a +10 if I could.
Price, purchase process, and marketing materials to be available within the month according to a highly-placed source (named Tony) from GM at the Gaithersburg, MD stop on the Volt freedom drive.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:08 pm)How could we see that with out demographic information?
Nissan tons of demographic information some released to the public (Hand raisers – have owned a Prius, are older).
GM according to Tony DiSalle, We have info on demand for the Volt…nothing released yet.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:11 pm)I can understand GM’s desire to ramp up slowly…because the Volt is an entirely new drivetrain…entirely new technology…but I think that the rollout strategy is too conservative.
There will be high demand for these cars. And if GM can’t meet that demand, that will bite them. It’s economics 101.
I hope that GM keeps an eye on the demand and plans on ramping up production more quickly to meet it.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:13 pm)That’s truly hilarious. Couldn’t even wait for the car to be released until total FAIL was declared LOL. Gee and I thought I was giving GM marketing the rough treatment. I’ll give myself a FAIL for that now!!!!!
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:16 pm)If you listen to half the people coming here these days, one would think there is at least 50 manufacturers with EREV competitors coming out 1 nano second after the Volt that will just bury GM. The closest competitor to the Volt isn’t an EREV at all, and that comes in December. So are we both missing something here?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:17 pm)Yes, the Volt has all of these standard accessories, and more.
No. The air conditioner runs on electricity. The heater is a dual system with electric heating elements (used in EV mode) and a traditional heater core (used when the gas engine is warm).
Air conditioning and heating are the only 2 accessories that use significant amounts of electrical power. Other things like the radio, wipers, headlights, etc, use much less power. And since the brakes are regenerative, they actually add power.
If the air conditioner is on max and it’s 95 degrees outside, you’ll probably get around 20% less range. So it’s significant, but not a show stopper. And if you run the air conditioner in econo-mode, the range will be affected a lot less.
All the things that were connected to belts are changed to use small electric motors. On the Volt, the gas engine won’t have any belts. Two electric water pumps (1 for the engine and another for cooling the battery), electric power steering pump, electric air conditioner compressor, etc.. And by the way, this is already starting to happen in regular gas engine cars. Many are converting from belt driven power steering to electric.
Once you know the facts, I think you may change your mind.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:20 pm)Perhaps…though a year ago most auto makers stuck with the conclusion that Li-Ion was years away from useful, while GM and Nissan worked toward meeting their 2010 launch dates.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:25 pm)#12 Roy H said:
base model in $37k to $40k range. This means that the Volt may actually be profitable, instead of a loss leader. GM needs profitability now.
Given that they will have a 10,000 car limited test fleet dribbled out over 12 months, they can cut costs now by releasing the car now and start taking their feedback from real customers. There will only be a few of them per month, just in case some huge problem shows up.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:26 pm)It’s almost 2 AM in Sagamihara, Japan! I’m usually out by 11! This WTH news brought me out! I hope
just because I’m sleepy I’m mis-reading but looks like some once die-hard Volt fans are gonna be headed in another direction!
GM, these folks are thee most deserving, appreciative Volt owners on the planet! Please change your
mind about Lyle’s Want List! How about at least pick a few numbers out of hat!?
If you don’t. I’m looking foward to gm-volt-sucks.com!
Many of us including me here in Japan have kept our Golden Bowties polished! Man, this time mine gets
tarnished again it’s history! Last time for me was the EV-1!
Goodnight!
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:28 pm)Which is what I’ve heard for the last 3 years, only it hasn’t happened.
And if another car company has an EREV close to production, why wouldn’t they announce it?
I don’t think so.
When you run the numbers, with the combination of a pure EV together and another car for longer trips, this doesn’t uses around the same amount of gasoline as the Volt. And range anxiety is very real, as most pure EV owners can attest. So there’s not much of an advantage to a pure BEV, and a lot of limitations.
For example, Nissan has already said they will produce an EREV version of the Leaf if EREV demand exceeds BEVs. I really hope they follow through on this…
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:28 pm)It is clearly not a mainstream car given the production volumes announced. A Corvette is a mainstream car by comparison.
Hybrids in general are not mainstream cars… Yet.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:30 pm)Doug for all your good reasons to hate them, the only thing that involves delaying prevaricating or changing – is price – it simply has not been released yet. The “release date” has always been 11/2010.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:38 pm)Aren’t most GM cars FlexFuel already? E-85 is pointless and will never get its foot in the door.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:39 pm)That’s right! At least you’ll be able to BUY a Cruze.
As #3,750 on Lyle’s “want list” I’m mighty befuddled why they wouldn’t at least attempt to leverage the years of interest and goodwill those of us around here have clearly worn on our sleeve. I think it’s major marketeering misstep.
Furthermore, IMHO, a great many dealerships don’t deserve GM’s adoration. “Go to the dealers” indeed. Why? They probably won’t have a Volt to show me, much less sell me. Heck, so far, every Chevy employee I’ve talked to about Volt has barely even bothered to educate themselves about what the Volt is! Some don’t even know it exists. And those who do, usually have heads jam-packed with misconceptions and just-plain-wrong information. This, with only months until launch. And these are “car people?” It’s all very frustrating and nearly inconceivable to me, at this late stage. Imagine if they basically didn’t know squat about a Tahoe or a Malibu!
Sincerely,
A four-time buyer of brand new GM vehicles.
** sorry if I’m venting a bit, guys.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:41 pm)Have you ever followed an Apple product launch?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:43 pm)Want to blame somebody ——-
Roger Smith? – Deceased
Robert C. Stempel? CEO Energy Conversion Devices (NASDAQ: ENER) is headquartered in Rochester Hills, Michigan.
United Solar Ovonic, LLC (also called Uni-Solar) is its wholly owned subsidiary located in Auburn Hills, Michigan. Ovonics (coined from “Ovshinsky” and “electronics”) is a field of electronics that uses materials able to change from an electrically nonconducting state to a semiconducting state shown by glass of special composition upon application of a certain minimum voltage. The most important example is phase change memory.
Scientist-entrepreneur Stanford Ovshinsky pioneered the field and coined the term after he founded Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. (ECD) in 1960 to further his research in amorphous semiconductors. ECD Ovonics works to create non-polluting, non-climate-changing energy sources
Healthy skepticism, watchful? Tens of thousands of GMers from the period have been fired, moved on, retired, or died…time to move on?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:43 pm)The artificial shortage GM is creating to increase to Buzz. I predict they will ramp up Volt production significantly in six month after launch. Shortage creates demand. People want what they can’t have. I do believe they want at least a six month shake down before expanding. I think the expansion will be driven by battery production capability in addition to demand.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:44 pm)This is exactly the problem with trying to set an MSRP for the thing.
MSRP = too low = no profit (at first)
MSRP = too high = car is classified by the market in the wrong marketing slot in the lineup.
Also, they can’t lower the MSRP later very easily. Even if battery and other component costs go down drastically.
The MSRP defines what class and lineup slot the car is in *forever*. They’d have to call it a Volt II. And we know how well the Mustang II was received.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:51 pm)In my experience, they don’t know squat about anything they sell. You can spend a Sunday afternoon researching a few cars on the Internet and know more about their cars than they do.
I speak from personal experience having owned over 30 different cars (all American btw.) and 7 of those were new.
The cell phone sales people give you a better experience than any car salesperson I have ever met. (Haven’t met you ‘VetteGuy, so, no offense intended.)
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:52 pm)What a ridiculous company. Their design changes, ridiculous list policy / management and arrogance guarantees I will never buy a Volt.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:52 pm)I could have chosen any number of posts made so far, but, yours Jim I, covered a lot of what others have complained about.
Your list of four factors in why GM is going slow and easy are good reasons for their current planned roll-out. As another blogger stated GM is having difficulty getting financing from the banks. In order to not be caught in a financial bind, the recent decision to lower the second year production to 30,000 may be for that reason. In time, we will get a better picture of their financial position. If they had originally planned for 60,000, it would seem reasonable to believe that they would be able to change back to that level of production. The current situation with the spill in the Gulf of Mexico will have a huge impact on the economy. Many of the people in the Gulf region will hardly be able to afford the purchase of a GEN I Volt at its initial high price. The state of the economy will determine manufacturers output. They will be cautious with inventory levels which generally determine planned production. Under such current economic conditions, this reducing planned production is wise. If conditions indicate otherwise (increase orders gathered by Chevy Dealers), with their being prepared to increase production, it is the green light to add additional production shifts. GM is no doubt accepting work applications from former automotive works looking to come back to work for GM. To add an additional shift would not take them long to accomplish. In the process of planning, they will have considered parts production of supply need pending a decision to increase vehicle production. Positioning their vendors to supply sufficient parts is a standard factor in planning. Testing of tooling has been completed but is always a factor when ramping up production. Spare tooling dies and other tools are always in inventory should those used become damaged. High production is the true test of these tools and a slow ramp-up is typical step in a final test of tooling as they reach maximum production. The equipment is expensive and GM must rely on cash reserves to put new production plans into the works. It would not surprise me if they are already planning new production facilities here in the U.S. They certainly are planning production facilities in foreign countries
What did you expect? Did you ask what steps they had taken to get information? Or where they just waiting for GM to provide the information? In any case, your questions on when they will get notice of their allocation, and that GM tells them to begin creating a list of their prospective Volt buyers, has now been answered.
I don’t feel that way! Lyle allowed us all to sign up on the list and hopefully influence GM’s plans for the Volt. And I applaud Lyle for his farsightedness. It has an had a positive effect. Nissan has been taking down-payments for the Leaf for some time now. They are also doing a select market roll-out in certain markets; cities and municipalities that are pursuing plans to put in place charging infrastructure have been selected as prime markets for EV’s. What GM is doing is no different than Nissan. They stated that it will produce 500,000 Leafs per year and that figure looks like total global production. GM is only giving figures for the U.S. Nissan has also indicated that it might not reach their planned level of sales. GM has taken the opposite approach. Many here today are saying this doesn’t make sense, that it is dumb. I think that GM is smiling; they love all this gibber and are just waiting to dispel all the negativity being voice by competitors, non-believers, skeptics, and disgruntled individuals from the past. When they get into a Volt and test drive it, feast their eyes on the exterior and interior up close, evaluate the attention to details, the abundance of features in the Volt, they will truly understand what a Volt is! Until then all of the above posts are part of the buzz being generated.
Honestly Jim I, I haven’t notice any slow down in the flow of information from GM. With Lyle’s great tenacity in getting and publishing information here on GM-Volt.com, my curiosity has been peaked. With few exceptions, each parcel of information has kept my interest at a high level. I understand that frustration and can see the impatience many have.
Fun; YES! I probably won’t be able to own one until after GEN I. The good news is, GM will roll-out nation-wide in 12 months after its initial deployment to the market. Lets all hope that the IPO in November goes well for GM, that a high demand beyond the current level of production results in pre-orders at Chevy Dealers so they can request a greater allotment for the following months, and GM will respond by adding more shifts, and new production facilities for the VOLT. GO VOLT!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
P.S. Jim I, I am not singling you out for your negative comments. You had a balance of positive and negative statements that lend well to the discussion. Take care and be patient!
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:55 pm)#112 Stuart22 said:
mpg – will people focus on that aspect and conclude the Volt is overpriced for its mediocre mileage, or will that not matter because people realize the true virtue of the Volt is that its 40 mile gas free range will encompass most driving that they’ll do?
I guess we’ll all just have to stay tuned.
My coach in gym class in junior high school had a poster on the wall that said “Next to today, the best time to start something is yesterday” You can’t get feedback until you sell a few of them. Start selling just a few/month now, and see if people are able to achieve gas free usage. If they can’t, then cancel everything, and save a ton of money.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:56 pm)Will there be some kind of rule/law disallowing someone from out of state purchasing a Volt in let’s say CA and then transporting it themselves to AZ? Just wondering …
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:58 pm)That’s right. Tony seemed very sure about that.
Nice meeting you in Gaithersburg, Baltimore17. Always good to put a face to the name.
And BTW, I did take the next step today. After the short test drive at Criswell, and a few good conversations with the wife, I put my $1000 down today at lunch. I am #10 on Criswell’s list.
I am sitting here rather comfortable this afternoon thinking about the new commitment. I think the car will suprise some folks about how civil it will be. GM is doing the rollout right. This is NOT something you rush to market in huge quantities. They have no margin for error, IMO.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:58 pm)Thanks for the link, Laura. I’m going to bookmark it for reference for when my Volt comes to New Mexico in CY 2011. (hope, hope) When I talked to Tony P. and Rob P. on the hands-free phone in the Volt on July 4th, one of them said they expected to have them out cross country, including NM, by the end of CY 2011 (12 to 18 months from now). I’m number 1 on the list at Galles Chevrolet.
BTW, did you make it to the GM 4th of July BBQ like you planned?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:01 pm)This is exactly what I expected, this car is designed for the urban environment, I will wait my turn, my current Chevy has 80k and still runs like new. I expect this car to get rave reviews and the owners of this first run will have to get used to the gawkers and strangers asking for a test drive. The Volt is my first choice in 2013, that is when I expect it to be available in my area, if I need a vehicle before then I will probably go for a Chevy Cruze or Malibu. Without a doubt it will sell out very quick in the first and second year of production and I do expect the dealers to sell this vehicle at a premium price due to its availability and cutting edge technology. Go GM !!!!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:04 pm)GM’s slow ramp up of production indicates they are shipping untold thousands of dollars with each volt. They hope to learn how to reduce production costs over time and make a profit on them.
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:05 pm)I think you summed up everything we know or can surmise, quite nicely.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:06 pm)It looks like GM is giving up on the Volt almost before it gets started. This rollout is very weak appearing but we will see. By keeping the production low they should be able to keep up with expected customer complaints.
What I expect to see is that other companies will take advantage of Volt’s short supply and long waiting lists to bring their electrics to market. I hope the Nissan Leaf is as good as it looks but I wish good sales to all electrics as this is the future. Once electrics are proven and accepted the next step is to “recharge” them with hydrogen fuel cells. Then the need for petroleum will begin to diminish.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:06 pm)This is not the EV1 where GM hand built a few cars that you could only lease. They’re mass producing them for sale to the general public. They can’t charge over $40,000. Not after repeatedly promising that MSRP will be less than that. They’ve locked themselves in, IMHO. So they can’t charge enough to limit demand. At least not for MSRP.
There is a huge difference between paying $125k for a Tesla, and $32,500 (with the tax credit) for the Volt. So, yes, I expect waiting lists. And mark-ups. So if they’re selling their entire production line at above MSRP, have a waiting list, and are still losing money, then isn’t that pretty clearly their fault? Especially if the dealers are getting a $5000 premium?
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:07 pm)So basically GM just used people to promote the volt by making early supporters feel that they were in line to get a volt. This is the way they reward brand loyalty?
I’m sure that many of the other “want list” people… you know… the ones that have been talking up the volt for the past several years are going to be just as tickled as I am at this. They could have tried to factor in this support … but nope…. Proving again that this company has crappy leadership. Keep you volt…. and good luck. I’ll buy the next electric car produced by a company I can trust… unfortunately that will probably not be a US auto manufacturer…. but US car manufacturers have been trying to self destruct for years.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:09 pm)Yeah, I remember reading that recently as well. Wow, that is quite a validation of the EREV philosophy considering Nissan hasn’t actually sold and delivered even one all-electric Leaf to a customer yet, and they are already considering jumping the fence and providing an EREV too. I didn’t think Carlos would stand for that kind of blasphemy but apparently it must be something that is on the table.
But back to the orginal statement you posed, the Volt has no specific EREV competitor (known) for now or the foreseeable future. If someone knows of any, speak now. Yet the paranoia is running like a river around here daily. I would like to see higher volumes as much as anyone, but considering the fatal consequences a problem would cause, I would take this hill slowly and see how it goes too, if I was GM. JMO.
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:14 pm)And who are these other EREV’s again? See #159
-5
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:14 pm)The Volt is a “Bait and switch” floor product. That’s why they are required to keep one in the showroom floor. The switch? The Cruze. Yup, get them into the showroom and tell tenm it’s a long wait and just buy the Cruze. On top of that, as someone else pointed out the crotch person I think, the Volt is CARB credeits for the volume on 6 SUV’s to one Volt. So 10K volts means 60K SUV’s they can sell.
Interesting how the Volt is a gas burner but then is also hailed as a “Green” car for GM, but will also be used to leverage the ability to sell more gas guzzler SUV’s as well as “sway” users to another gas burner….the Cruze, just by drawing in “floor traffic”.
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:17 pm)E85 will always be pointless unless people are encouraged to buy E85 rather than E10.
E85 = $2.15/gal
E10 = $2.45/gal
(in my area)
- E85 is not cheap enough to make it a better buy over E10. (price)
- E85 is only sold in 7 of the hundreds of stations in my area. (convenience)
- E85 yields a lot less power and fuel economy than E10. (performance)
- E85 is currently made from corn stocks. (environment)
Price, Convenience, Performance, Environment. If it was a buck (or even 50 cents) difference, I would buy E85. Right now, no way.
I have a 2009 Impala LT. It is flexfuel capable.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:17 pm)So GM is throwing the wait list in the trash? That is incredibly bad faith. There is no reason why dealers cannot use the wait list in some fashion. I was interested in a Volt, but I think I will wait for another manufacturer. I just don’t trust GM. I have high hopes that an electric mini will be available in a few years. I don’t need the supplemental gas motor anyway.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:17 pm)Yes. I did. The fireworks were pretty amazing. And the Volt looked larger than I remembered from the auto show. It actually had some “trunk” space. Which is an unexpected bonus.
I got there pretty late though. And I didn’t meet anyone from the site. Which is basically my fault. I forgot how bad I am at cocktail parties when I don’t know anyone…I met some employee’s girlfriends…
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:23 pm)Lemme give you my “Tailer Park Maggots” perspective on this supply and demand thing.
It’s like your sex partner. If you aint gettin it from him/her, then they go elsewhere!
/note I said sex partner and not spouse! I have some level of decency…..lol
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:24 pm)lol…..
That’s pretty funny there Miss LauraM.
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:26 pm)Glad you made it and experienced the Volt again. When I went to Austin in May, I couldn’t sit in the Volt or even look inside. I did meet a very nice GM rep named Samantha. Almost everything she told me has been announced by someone since then (even the parts she swore me to secrecy on). Since I kept my part of the bargin, I think they should order up my Volt early.
Too bad you didn’t link up with other GM-Voly dot com’ers. I was hoping you were in one of Tag’s pictures so we could see what you look like.
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:28 pm)@ Anounymous Proxy
You make a good point, and I’m quite sure that some dealers will indeed pull the good ‘ol bait ‘n switch. Even though I don’t like the idea of burning gas, the range extender is neccessary to promote the widespread adoption of the Volt and give electric vehicles a good name. Battery technology simply is not advanced enough at this point for any pure BEV to take on any sort of market prominence, and I know for certain that many less proactive people would strand pure BEV.
The Volt will be the greenest car on the market by far when it comes out. Think of the range extender as a “neccessary evil” at this point until batteries are good enough to fly solo with decent range and size.
NPNS!
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:31 pm)No such rule. Just an fyi, there’s a Chevy dealer (yes I called them “CHEVY”) in San Francisco that will get a few that I know of. Crap, I forgot their name. A buddy of mine from there told me. Gonna do a test drive when they get one in.
can’t buy cuz no $$$….lol. Oh well.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:32 pm)No it doesn’t. The credit goes to the buyer when he/she files the tax returns. If GM were to lease the vehicle, they can potentially apply the credit right away when calculating lease rates, like Nissan is doing.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:32 pm)I think it’s a simple case of once bitten twice shy.
GM CANNOT afford to build 100K cars if they don’t sell.
In this case the Nintendo strategy is the most sound business decision, even though it likely knocks me out of the running for a Volt.
I DID note that I can buy a new Caddy CTS-4 for $39k Cdn here in Calgary… thats the one with the ‘small’ 3.0 litre 270hp engine. (I can just see the gas guzzler comments brewing!!)
Maybe my move to electric will wait a full car purchase/wear out cycle.
(our last new car was our 2002 Subaru impreza, 230000km and counting)
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:36 pm)If you did that in Texas, you would pay both CA and TX sales tax. TX sales tax is 8.25% x $40k = 3300 bux.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:43 pm)Yup, what he said.
)
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:47 pm)Good Luck!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:50 pm)Agreed. My thoughts exactly.
A highly desirable product with no competition and will sell out immediately. Talk about a good position to be in!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (1:55 pm)This is sort of stretching the concept of “mass produced”. When GM ramps up production Volts will account for 2500 units a month, a little more than 1% of its monthly production. Way too small a number to be considered mass produced. Way too small a number to drive down costs. By comparison, the Leaf when ramped up with compose 16% of Nissan’s monthly production.
Which company do you think is committed to moving forward with EVs?
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:01 pm)Obviously, Nissan. But I’m still hoping that GM will change its mind once they realize the actual demand…
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:10 pm)That’s great news! I’m glad to hear this.
I am suprised to read your impressions as they are so contradictory of a lot of other people’s opinions here. Posts like yours are becoming a rarity. To reiterate:
1. You put down money and are on an official list at a Chevy dealership to recieve a Volt.
2. You are content and satisfied with the decision you made.
3. You actually said, “GM is doing the rollout right”.
4. You feel this a car that shouldn’t be rushed to market.
Absent in your post was:
1. Vitreol hatred for GM as a company.
2. Complaining about the roll-out numbers.
3. Comparisons of the Volt to the Leaf.
4. Comparisons of Apples to Oranges.
5. Complaining about GM leadership and their obvious evil bent along with video proof of puppies being kicked and flowers being tramped on.
6. Worship of Nissan and how they are genetically incapable of wrong-doing.
7. Worship of Toyota and how they are genetically incapable of wrong-doing.
8. Reminiscing and a folk-song sing along about the EV-1.
9. Blame going to Bob Lutz.
10. Complaining GM hypes the Volt too much.
11. Complaining GM doesn’t hype the Volt enough.
12. Paranoia of EREV competitors that don’t even exist.
You get the picture.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:12 pm)I didn’t even ask any questions. I figured they would have already dispensed all the information on display. I took pictures of the signs though. It never occurred to me to ask them to show me the engine. And opening the hood of the car would have told me exactly nothing.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:14 pm)#19 – Tom, “As one of the original people here to sign up three years ago, it’s a little disappointing although I figured this was the case from all the recent developments and news.”
Ya, me too, number ~8900 something. That’s why I placed my $99 deposit back in April so I could start driving an EV sooner than mid 2012.
“the long-lived GM-Volt want list will not be used in any way, that instead they will be “going through their dealer body.” – Still appreciate your hard work Lyle, even though GM has no intention of using the want list…
GO EV!!!
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:15 pm)Why is it that people have no problem believing Nissan when they say they are going to produce 500K a year? I believe they will make more Leafs than Chevy makes Volts, but NO WAY will they get to 500K per year anytime soon. Particularly if the car has problems by being rushed to market.
I am sorry to be in the minority here today, but the limited rollout by GM for the Volt is right on target. They would be foolish to do anything different with something this critical to their survival. They will also be able to ramp up rather quickly to meet demand if it materializes.
Its up to those here to make sure the demand materializes. And that’s not by adding your name to a fan list (like I have done in the past). Its by putting real money down for the car (which I did this morning).
-10
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:18 pm)(click to show comment)
-8
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:21 pm)He said specifically GM will not maintain a centralized waiting list, and in personal communication with me said the long-lived GM-Volt want list will not be used in any way, that instead they will be “going through their dealer body.”
Not that I really care, but thats kind of fucked up.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:30 pm)Well, I was planning on selling my spot on the want list. Oh well…..lol
/what can I say? I’m a bottom feeder.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:31 pm)# 178 Schmeltz said:
You get the picture.
Just add putting off doing something about gasoline consumption one more year, and you pretty much nailed it.
If the Volt gets changed from how it is now, in 2011, will that have to be tested for another year, to make sure it’s perfect?
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:34 pm)The fact that you are ignorant of what it takes to design and build a car using a new EREV paradigm, something never done before, is not GM’s problem.
BTW, at risk of getting technical with you, what confidence interval do you think GM needs to meet for the car? 99%? 99.99%? 99.9999%? 100 PERCENT!?
What about all of the components? Of course many hundreds are not failure critical, and can be held at a lower level of confidence guardband, but hundreds probably ARE. How many of them are there? Should they all meet a 99.9999% confidence of no failure? For how long? How would you know? Magic? Genies? The shake-and-see 8 ball?
If GM THINKS they are at that confidence level (but didn’t test), is that enough for you to purchase one? If you think they are at that level, is THAT enough for you to purchase one? My grandfather thinks it will be OK too. Maybe THAT’S enough.
Fortunately, the engineering of this car is done by auto engineers, not know-it-alls on a website. I can’t get over how many people think this is nothing more than assembling a new fangled coffee maker.
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:41 pm)I can tell you people are not engineers or business people. The minute these roll out the door they are going to be extremely costly for GM to fix if something pops up. ……..
……..and as an engineer something ALWAYS pops up. The first 10,000 are guinea pigs that GM will have to bend over backwards to please…..and that costs money.
So pop a midol you drama queens and have some patience. I don’t see YOU engineering and building ANYTHING so STFU.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:42 pm)That’s why Generation 2 of the Volt is being developed right now.
You can bet any issues that crop up in Gen 1 will be addressed in Gen 2. Thats how the car business works, I would think.
Gen 2 WILL be tested for a year before it comes out to make sure it’s perfect. Again, that’s how the car business works. Gen 2 of any car isn’t just to add on luxury features and change the grill design.
-9
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:57 pm)I don’t see you building jackshit either asswipe. Pop the whole bottle for us all to end it ya freakshow.
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:04 pm)Wow..and who else has a non gas guzzling “green halo” car?..well there’s…no wait it uses fuel, bu then ..no, wait, not in production yet..oh well there must be thousands… I just can’t hink of ONE. (and BTW Tesla has nothing as they have one product, 6 figures and their IPO???looking at the bottom of a toilet bowl right now..)
BUT WAIT..there is a green halo car, even though it uses gsa..the Prius..you know from the company that is DESPERATELY trying to be a MAJOR player in the large SUV and truck market.
Honda is the ONLY company with a decent hybrid andNO ambition to luxury SUV and Truck market.
If limited avilability is a problem, why didn’t toyota make more Prius’ last year when gas spiked? no the wait list was 3-6 months…
and remember this is a new product, limited or few problems with 100 IVers, is not liniear to 10000 production line…
GM is smart.
but hey..every one of those posters saying, well that settles it I will buy something else…just is one less hurdle to me getting mine… I will print the list here tho, and if I see a LEAF stranedd, I will stop, ask who you are, and if you are on the list and felt like GM pi$$ed in your cornflakes, then I will drive away and laugh laugh laugh…(although I believe most of those saying that here are trolls…)
dont care..this year, next year, or 5 years, only a VOLT for me, meantime I have a good new Equinox…
GM..you’re doing it right, you’re doing it smart…
Mitch (lifelong GM fan)
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:07 pm)Judging from your statement you are blind, short sighted, or misinformed. Early supporters on this website have been give the opportunity to win, in a contest, the chance to travel to New York City and test drive the Volt and participate in the 4th of July celebration. They have givien Lyle, this blogs owner, numerous interviews and opportunity to glean answers to many of the question we had about the Volt. Through this website, they have shown unprecedented transparency during the entire Volt development, prototype production, testing, and now the final stages up to roll-out. GM has finally told its Chevy Dealers to take pre-orders for the Volt much as Nissan has done with the Leaf. Although it would be nice for them to reward that loyalty by using the GM-Volt wish list to distribute the first roll-out Volts, that would just not be practical. In a country where freedom is paramount, GM is right in making this vehicle available to everyone, first come – first served. Those lucky individuals will likely be celebrities and politicians. That is to be expected with new high tech products. What can be hoped for is increased production when the demand materialized: i.e., orders by prospective buyers through the dealer-network which will result in real requests for increased monthly allotments. You need to re-examine your prejudices against U.S. auto manufacturers. Test drive some of their new models, read current product reviews. American vehicles are getting higher quality ratings today.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:14 pm)What! Not you Captain Jack, lol! Don’t sell it, wouldn’t be worth much now. I’d keep it just in case GM changes its mind! You never know, stranger things have happened!
GO EV!!!
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:20 pm)Having been in this process several times, THIS is 10,000% accurate. initial roll out WILL have issues and GM will HAVE TO bend over backwards for them.
We have in our eng office the slogan “You cannot make anything idiot proof, they are always making better idiots..”
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:20 pm)Reminds me of a sign I saw at a greasy-spoon some years ago: “We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone.”
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:23 pm)These guys are worse than Apple for dolling out product. I hope another company (Toyota or Honda) gets their act together and gives them a stimulus package .
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:35 pm)Yeah, they’re doing it just to peeve you…
Why should they build a MASSIVE production facility to build 50k in 6 months when after that, they probably won’t sell but 20k a year? You consider that perhaps their suppliers couldn’t handle that capacity either?
Everyone is always whining about how long it’s taken them to get them to production, then whine about how few will be available. Well it’s one or the other folks. The bigger the production line, the longer it takes to bring it online.
These aren’t iPads, they’re massive, resource intensive machines with huge battery packs, custom-built electronics and motors. You can’t just buy this kinda stuff at Harbor Freight.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:39 pm)Here again is the biased application of a rule only designed to give the “Rosie glasses” to a Volt fanboy.
Your context is here and now. Apply to both “the any car you are talking about” and the Volt. Here and now, there is no Volt is there? But you idiotically seem to think you can go out and buy one and compare it to whatever product you percieve as not present to be accounted for thus over glorifying the Volt in a biased one sided, apply only to the Volt rule.
It’s not a HALO product after it has sold over 2 million and outsold all other Hybrids. It’s a sucessful product. And don’t bother trying to bring up the recall because GM had a recalls in the recent past. They all do.
“DESPERATELY trying to be a MAJOR player in the large SUV and truck market.”, sure that’s your perception. Thanks for giving any supporting links to that argument, NOT!
So you think the Insight is a decent hybrid?
http://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/specifications.aspx?group=epa
40/43/41
Sure it’s good, good quality too, but the bar is set by Prius at 51/48/50.
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/specs.html
Obviously people like you are why GM will settle for MPG that is “Comparable to a Corolla” for the Volt.
Why don’t you change that “M” in your first letter to a “B” because you whine like one.
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:41 pm)#29 Hmmm – Along with the LEAF, you should also add Ford (EV Focus), Tesla (Model S), BMW (Mini-E), Mitsu (MiEV), VW (E), etc to your list as manufactures that are making a BIG mistake bringing these vehicles to market. Since they’re all 100 mile range vehicles they’ll only work well for 90% OF THE POPULATION! Thankfully you apparently know so VERY few people!
Also, while you’re at it, add any stories about those Toyota RAV EVs that are obviously all made-up! I mean, who would believe that people have actually been driving a 100 mile range RAV EV for 10 years, total BS…
Ya, and I drive across FOUR states EVERYDAY
EVs are totally classic NICHE vehicles only serving 90% OF THE POPULATION!
GO EV!!!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:44 pm)GM set the goal of 40 mile ev range based on research of transportation habits. I don’t think that number will change unless driven by the market reactions and technology. Current tech makes it a easy to overnight charge vehicle with no special electrical setup. So I don’t think larger range is going to be a big priority either. Don’t think they’re going to make a 10-20 mile ev range version just to make a lower cost product. We’ll see once Volt and stuff like it reaches the market.
-3
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:45 pm)??????????????????????
Looks like something a frustrated 3rd grader would write about someone taking his pretzels.
-3
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:48 pm)??????????????????????????
What’s in the water today?
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:52 pm)Are you so dumb as to think this was a real GM waiting list? Come to my web site and sign up for the free waiting list to the moon. http://www.nasa-moonlaunch.com
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:53 pm)No.
GM was aiming for 1/2 of its new cars to be FlexFuel by 2012, but I think they’ve scaled that back. And foreign car makers are much worse.
Looking at cars on the road today, FlexFuel is a very small percentage. And that’s why E85 is hard to find in many places.
Put it this way: Let’s say you were a gas station owner. Would you dedicate a pump to E85? Could you afford to?
What we need is a federal mandate – all new cars must be FlexFuel. Once that happens, within a few years 1/3 to 1/2 of all cars on the road will be FlexFuel. At that point, most gas stations owners would sell E85. In order to stay competitive, they would have to.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:58 pm)Leaf has taken my interest away from Volt. I have been a Chevy man for many years but they really lost my loyalty when they crushed the EV1 & 2. GM could be the foremost EV producer by now if they had been smart in 1991. My next car will NOT have an ICE of any kind.
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (3:59 pm)lol….I guess he/she should add the many Mini-EV drivers here who have posted many times that they thought a 100 mile range was not enough but found it was more than enough. They racked up more than 25K miles in their Lease ownership. Yeah, they probably don’t know what their talking about either. What do those BEV owners really.
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:02 pm)#59 Lobo – “I also seriously doubt that up to 35% of the $99 people that signed up for LEAF will buy it either.”
Wow, really! Let’s see in the Fall how many don’t get sold…Check back with you then….
GO EV !!!
-6
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:05 pm)It’s obviously over your head VOTARD!
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:06 pm)Ford Magna Focus BEV.
-6
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:08 pm)Common sense. You don’t get any.
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:11 pm)=========================================
I am happy that you have placed a deposit with your dealer for a Volt. I guess it is a bit easier to take the attitude you have when you live in one of the “chosen areas”.
How are the rest of us supposed to take that advice, when GM has not even indicated to their dealer base when they will be authorized to sell and be able to order Volts for their customers? As I said above, I have been to my dealer three times already, and other than taking my business card and telling me that I am #1 on their list, there is absolutely no information available on when these cars will be available in our area. And because he is a reputable dealer, he will not take deposits until he can say for sure when he will be able to deliver a vehicle………….. And a generic 12-18 months for availability nationwide is hardly a timetable I would count on.
I just think that GM is not giving their dealers a fair shake. In the video above, Mr. DiSalle stated that all the dealers have information concerning this roll out. Maybe he meant to say the dealers in the selected areas, but that is not what he said. And he also talks about deliveries in the calendar year, not the model year. So which is it? Are there 10K units in the 2011 model year, which customarily ends in August, or in the 2011 calendar year, which could be taken to mean that there will be very limited availability for the first quarter of the 2012 model year as well? It is confusing statements like this that lead to all the negativity.
Get the facts straight, and present them to us in a consistent manner. And maybe a finalized date when the options and pricing will be announced, instead of “stay tuned and be patient”. This car is supposed to be in showrooms in about 18 weeks……………
JMHO
-8
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:14 pm)WOOOHOOOoooo….hahahaha.
I didn’t think you had it you!!! Nice.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:15 pm)I think the lack of E85 pumps has to do with the distribution of Ethanol as well. Since it’s corn-based right now, corn states are closer to the source.
This will change once cellulose-based Ethanol is in production. We’re talking a long time though with gas prices this low. A bunch of Ethanol producers went out of business in the last couple of years because the demand never ramped up.
See my post #162. With E85 and E10 prices so close, it doesn’t make sense to buy E85 even where it is available.
http://e85prices.com/
-3
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:27 pm)Let alone release the Price.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:32 pm)Lol. Let me rephrase. I met two women–each of whom was there with her significant other. Is that better?
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:33 pm)I really don’t see the next Gen Volt being a worse version of the first Gen Volt. Many things will be improved, it’ll be lighter perhaps slightly more aerodynamic. Maybe it won’t have as many bells and whistles but that’d be it. And next years model won’t be Gen 2. It’ll just be a new model year. Usually they do real minor things here, like change the lights slightly. I don’t see them coming out with a Volt with less electric range unless they come out with one that has more electric range as well. Probably a 60 40 and maybe 20.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:39 pm)You’re creating a straw man and then knocking it down. Nissan has not said it will make 500,000 Leafs a year. What it has said is that it needs to sell a minimum of 500,000 EVs a year in order to get volumes to a point where EVs can be price competitive with conventional cars sans government subsidies. To that end it intends to release a series of models from both Nissan and Renault. The production goal for the Leaf is 125,000 per year when the assembly plant in Smyrna comes on line.
Why believe Nissan is serious? Well they’ve taken out loans and are building the battery and assembly plants. Which means you don’t have to accept the press releases at face value on faith. FWIW Nissan has said the Smyrna battery plant has a capacity of producing more than 200,000 packs a year and that it would sell those packs to other companies.
As for being rushed to market, my sense is this is somewhat true. During the Leaf tour last year most of the Nissan employees didn’t seem very well informed, and for the longest time Nissan only had two demo cars available, and neither of those were drivable. On the other hand a BEV is reasonably simple — far less complicated than an EREV — so rushing may be perfectly acceptable. In fact a sense of urgency in bringing out new product isn’t a bad thing.
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:46 pm)This gets down to the classic chicken vs. the egg scenario. In my mind, demand is the driver. Once a significant percentage of the cars on the road are FlexFuel capable, then the supply and distribution will ramp up quickly. If the number of FlexFuel cars stays below 20%, there’s no real reason to increase supply, since most gas stations won’t offer E85.
This is why I believe a federal mandate is required.
Corn ethanol will never scale to the levels required to significantly offset gasoline consumption. The only benefit of corn ethanol is that it may help get the ball rolling.
I wouldn’t say gas prices are low today. I believe cellulosic ethanol can compete at today’s prices, around $2.75 a gallon.
Loboc: A bunch of Ethanol producers went out of business in the last couple of years because the demand never ramped up.
What drove them out of business was very low gas prices in early 2009 (see chart below). This is why I support a floor tax on oil at $70/barrel. The idea is to keep current gas prices from going down, not to raise taxes. $70/barrel corresponds to around $2.50 a gallon, so gasoline would never get cheaper than that. With this floor in place, investors would be start pouring in, and cellulosic companies would have the capitol to expand and lower prices.
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:53 pm)Cool, then this rebate oughta’ be available until about 2017 for the Volt!
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:54 pm)Producing 500k a year is well within the capabilities of any major OEM. If GM said they were producing 500k a year, I would believe them too. Not that I think it would be a good idea. 100k makes much more sense for an initial launch. Especially at this price. And then scale up.
I doubt Nissan plans to make 500k LEAFs at the initial launch. The point is that they’re planning to have the capability to produce 500k. They have a plan in place to increase production. Given the length of product cycles in the industry that’s kind of important.
I agree that GM is wise to limit the initial roll out. It’s the second and third year production levels that concern me.
Agreed. I’m hoping that GM has the capacity to change their mind about year two or three production when faced with years worth of waiting lists and big markups at the initial launch. But if the demand isn’t there…
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:56 pm)The evidence does suggest that for many people a 100 mile EV works just fine. At least for folks who are well off and have another car available. Now a BEV might not work for someone who only owns one car, but by going the “low volume – high price” route GM isn’t providing an alternative for these people anyway — it seems unlikely that a family that can only afford one car would be able to afford a Volt.
What’s interesting is that GM had evidence that range was not a huge problem in practice based on its experience selling the EV-1. One interesting fact is that, as Chelsea Sexton has mentioned many times, most EV-1 owners passed up the opportunity to extend their range by buying an upgraded battery pack. They didn’t think increasing the range was worth the money, which more or less means that additional range was not perceived as that big of a deal.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:57 pm)500K a year? Really? Please post us a link to such drivel nonsense oh brilliant one.
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:58 pm)That would be some ….HIGH-Quality H2O…
“So that’s what opening up a can of whoop-ass feels like. ” – Bobby Boucher
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:01 pm)Smart if they’re trying to kill the Volt. If they want it to be a big success, then not so smart. Just depends on what they are trying to accomplish.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:12 pm)Like EESTOR.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:16 pm)Even if GM stands to make nothing while their dealers cash in with the Volt, GM would still be helped by the Volt by simply using it as carrot – for example, have dealer access to Volts dependent upon sales volume of whatever product model GM wants that dealer to move.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:17 pm)That was good information sir. Thank you for your knowledge and insight.
As the WIKI indicates, the new battery would have given a possible 40 additional miles but realistically probably only 30 at best. I believe that particular battery was the Ovonics NiMh.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:17 pm)It drives me crazy when smart people say this. How many Volts do you think GM can sell at $50K a copy? $40K a copy? $30K a copy? There is no escaping the fact that the volume demanded will depend on the price, that the price will depend on cost, and that costs will depend on production volume. So the critical element is production volume. And this is determined a priori.
If GM approached the Camaro roll out like it’s approaching the Volt roll out it would have made 10,000 units the first year and sold each copy at $55K. And very few people would have bought one. But that is not how is proceeded. It set a high production goal, which allowed it to keep costs, and thereby MSRP, down. So rather than selling 10K and complaining about the lack of demand it sold 100K and announced it had a big success on its hands.
We’ll see how the volume of the Volt compares the Leaf. Nissan is selling the Leafs for roughly the same price as Toyota is selling the Prius. That’s a very competitive price so we’ll get a good idea of what demand looks like regardless of what happens with the Volt.
PS: Sorry you didn’t connect with other GM-Volt folks at the fireworks.
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:18 pm)#203 Dave G said:
What we need is a federal mandate – all new cars must be FlexFuel.
Why would anybody want to pay almost as much for something that gives them half the mileage?
When price goes down to half or less I’ll buy a 1999 Ford Taurus and start using the stuff.
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:21 pm)Before today, I only thought the Volt program was being run by engineers, now I know it is.
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:34 pm)IMO, the rollout of the Cruze along with the rollout of the Volt and considering the price and the limitaion of quantity of the Volt, GM is positioning to derrive a statistical quantification of why the Volt will need to be abandoned. The Cruze, which will be less than half of the Volt in price and a fairly handsome Hwy MPG will out sell simply because the Cruze will outnumber the Volt simply by present avaialability and price. This helps GM gear up to say the Volt is not selling and the public does not want to buy it, just look at the numbers. I believe the Volt is a charity token and leverage to acquire more CARB credits to sell more guzzling SUV’s. At the same time the showroom charity Volt will bring in customers and yes, they will get “swayed” to purchase a more affordable yet still a gas burning Cruze.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:42 pm)With some engines, the mileage penalty for ethanol is only 4%. Specifically, ethanol runs much better with high intake pressure, like with a turbocharger.
But the real point is that ethanol can be produced sustainably. That may sound like a lofty reason now, but when oil starts running out, gas prices will go through the roof…
Bottom line: FlexFuel is all about having a choice, and that will become increasingly meaningful as world oil production peaks over the next decade.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:42 pm)GM will build 10,000 Volts in the next year…… how many other auto makers will be building this technology next year? This is new technology and most people need educated so that they are not so blissfull.
I think it’s fantastic that the VOLT is stimulating so much interest in the ELECTRIC driveline. It is new technology and I understand that securing suppliers and keeping quality up is not majic.
I know many people who have spent over $30K for much lesser technology.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:50 pm)Do you realize that if the battery treatment is too conservative, GM can probably change it with software and extend the EV range by just changing a few lines of code? What happens to the others if they’re working the batteries too hard?
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:52 pm)No other major car maker has announced an EREV.
The Volt desperately needs competition, and by that I mean a car that:
• runs on electricity or gasoline
• has at least 30 miles of all-electric range, meaning the gas engine isn’t needed for full power
• is built by a major car maker, with a network of dealers throughout the U.S.
• is real, with an announced production date
By this simple definition, the Volt has no competition.
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:55 pm)Yes and I’m crying come on LEAF!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:57 pm)Yes, well said, +1.
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:59 pm)Electrifying California!!!
Here’s one for you “Future LEAF Driver”
“Coulomb to Announce Grant to Install 1,600-Plus EV Charging Stations in California”
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/07/coulomb-to-announce-grant-to-install-1600-plus-ev-charging-stations-in-california.html
AND will be compatable with the LEAF
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/06/coulomb-says-its-chargepoint-networked-ev-charging-station-works-with-leaf.html
If you build it they will buy!
Infrastructure is falling into place, next higher capacity battery packs!
I predict late next year a pack of 150-200 miles will be on the market, but of course those “Range Anxiety” tards will still claim anxiety……wah wah.
American made, American built, Foreign powered and Oil Dependent….YaVolt!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:08 pm)Sorry David, too little too late. I’m going with the LEAF. No more ICE for me.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:12 pm)Warranty!?!
That’s what it’s for isn’t it?
Still, I see your point. However, “working the batteries too hard” is rather vague. If you mean drag racing an EV built for commuting sure, it will degrade, that’s a given. If you’re driving it normal and within manufacturers specifications or “as its supposed to be driven”, then I don’t see a problem.
Either way, if you don’t buy a warranty on new technology like this, especially the battery… That’s just a bad experience waiting to happen.
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:17 pm)I disagree, for many reasons.
First, that 100 mile range varies a lot. In cold weather, you may only get 65 miles. If you’re in a hurry and floor it, you’ll get less. And if the car is 5 years old, even less range.
And speaking of cold, BEVs may not work a low temperatures.
And what happens if you forget to plug it in? Some people compare this to running out of gas, but this is apples and oranges. First, when I come home at night, my state of mind is such that I’m much more apt to forget things. I don’t think I’m alone here. And this backed up by real world experience. For example, Lyle admitted that he forgot to plug in his Mini-E 4 times in one year. This WILL happen.
And what if there’s a power outage?
Or what if something unexpected comes up suddenly, and you have to go somewhere beyond your range. Maybe your wife has already left with your other car.
I really believe pure EVs will end up as a niche market.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:23 pm)The biggest reason I’m crying, is I need to lease a Volt, but probably won’t be able to.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:23 pm)Same for me Steve. I’m on the Volt list but have put a deposit on a charging station for the Leaf and am in line for the car when it hits the market here in Portland Or. in Dec. GM hasn’t said when the Volt will get here. Too little too late…
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:28 pm)Dave G said:
I really believe pure EVs will end up as a niche market.
I’m thinking more like bodies in a junkyard, batteries doing something useful.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:34 pm)Hey Lyle, thanks for this website and your heroic efforts for the last three years or so. I wonder how much your efforts, and those that participated on this site helped get the Volts wheels on the road? The Volt is now a reality. Soon folks will know the answers to the few questions that are left.
I would really expect to buy a GM car at a GM dealer, also I expected some price creep. There always is. However resale value with the Volt should be strong. 40k is just to much for me, So barring a new job I will wait a while on a Volt. However I may still talk to my dealer. I will take some of Corvette Guy’s words of wisdom with me.
The only way for me to get a Volt is for somebody to convince my wife that we need one.
Cheers
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:37 pm)Aren’t you the gentleman that often posts that a BEV owner will burn more gas than a Volt owner?
I have often said that a Volt owner is more apt to just “continue driving on gas” because you can and may even forgo charging. Your statement proves me correct. A BEV owner dos not have that “convenience” to keep burning oil. Under the circumstances you provide, the Volt owner will then be the one who will burn more gas than a BEV owner. And that’s not for just taking a long trip, it may be a common event where the Volt owner will burn gas in lieu of charging.
As for power outtage, sure the BEV owner may be stranded IF the charge is depleted. But don’t expect your gas burnenr to get filled up at the gas station.
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
-5
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:43 pm)Yea, take the battery out of your sloppy sheik sucking petrol burner and see how well it does.
American made, American built, Foreign powered and Oil Dependent….YaVolt!
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:52 pm)You can keep making excuses but if you don’t even try, you’ll never know. I believe ALL of you have more than one car. Many even said they had 3.
American made, American built, Foreign powered and Oil Dependent….YaVolt!
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:57 pm)So, the “waiting list” was a scam. From a man who has bought about 7 new GM vehicles, I have been tossed aside for the last time. Extremely disapponting. Next car looks like an Accord.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:05 pm)Me and the wife have four cars, a bit excessive really…
Her favorite is the Prius, which is fine with me.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:08 pm)Of course you have… look at certain toys every Christmas
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:19 pm)Well, I think the Fisker Karma might qualify, except that it will cost more than twice as much, is not from a well established company, has a questionable delivery date, and no national dealer network. But it is supposed to be a 50 mile all-electric EREV. And it could be available in the foreseeable future.
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:26 pm)That credit can however be carried over to subsequent years if your tax obligation is less then $7500. Called the IRS to be sure.
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:29 pm)Wish it were true, but it is NOT!!! The luck few are the deep pockets and those who live select population centers. The rest of us are left out in the cold.
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:44 pm)Sorry I missed you at the shindig. The teeny downside was that there were no nametags! Without a “handle” there may have been a hundred Voltiacs there incognito. Lyle, of course, was easily recognizable given his Nation-wide celebrity. May I ask for some HINT so I can look through my pics. I may have gotten you in a background photo.
Be well,
Tagamet
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:50 pm)One of my local dealers (Michigan ) responded that they are requiring a deposit in order to “ensure your place in line”. Which I was thinking was the case (they aren’t going to let go of that easy cash so quickly). I have found that the amount they are requiring varies from dealership to dealership, with most being between $500 – $1,000.
I’m on a couple of lists (though only at the top of one and that is a smaller one), so I have my fingers crossed!
+4
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:58 pm)Good Lord!
What a bunch of Eeyores today. Between those upset about the rollout not happening everywhere, immediately, and with 100,000 Volts, and those who are against the Volt (but post here anyway), and those who can’t wait for the Volt and will buy a Leaf instead (and post here anyway), and those who are EV only and think the Volt is the devil (and post here anyway), you would think the world is ending, or a least GM is CAUSING it.
Me thinks, there are alot of worried EV only fans out there that see the writing on the wall.
Me thinks, the U.S. population geography is working against alot of people thru no fault of there own.
Me thinks, some of us are fortunate to live in the right place at the right time.
AND, I think GM needs to ignore most of this garbage and keep working on making the Volt and its technology as bulletproof as possible. This is there job. Not to make sure everyone in the country gets a Volt in year 1, at a price THEY want to pay.
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:02 pm)I was told it is federal law that the deposit must be returned if you decide not to get the car. Not that I care, I WILL be getting the car, but I think your statement may be incorrect.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:13 pm)No. The rest of us will need to be a bit more patient.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:14 pm)Tagamet said:
May I ask for some HINT so I can look through my pics.
Yes, there are those among us who believe LauraM may not live in a retirement community.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:15 pm)I may be wrong about that; not completely sure. Three different people at the dealership (Criswell Chevy- Gaithersburg, MD) told me this at different times. Not to mention, the price of the car is not even announced yet, nor approx delivery, I find it hard to believe these are not grounds for return of a deposit if you choose not to buy. At least, I would think, a high quality dealership would see it that way.
Its not like they won’t be able to sell it to someone else. Everyone is complaining GM isn’t making enough.
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:18 pm)MetrologyFirst Said:
Everyone is complaining GM isn’t making enough.
Money or cars?
-5
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:19 pm)I totally agree. We signed up and supported this from the start and now are being told to “F” off and get over it. Find one if you can.
-2
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:27 pm)All the hype, so little information, and now the disappointment of such a limited release and more expense. It’ll be the ford fusion hybrid for me and hope that competion from other manufacturers in the next two years brings down the cost for consumers interested in newer, greener technologies!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:29 pm)If I had to pick out who she MIGHT have been (and that’s tough with only posts to go by) she’d have been the woman wearing a white dress.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:46 pm)someone wrote about Disalle as a typ salesman …the type I will never buy a car from.. However, only time will tell if GM has made the right decision to limit production ..I doubt VOLT will have the halo effect for GM to sell other cars ..biggest danger for GM is that Nissan or some european firms comes up with EREV soon & has the courage to manufacture to meet demand while GM dither on production ..
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:50 pm)I am beginning to believe that GM thinks that 30k in 2012 is the market demand.
This statement could refer to just the first year.
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (9:13 pm)Dave, Just keep buying gasoline until it’s no longer available. Then what will you do? I’ll be driving my Leaf with all of it’s limitations because I’ve driven electric cars and motorcycles for many years and once you’ve driven electric you’ll never go back to those noisy, smelly ICE machines.
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:04 pm)Yup. How about putting Volt CUSTOMERS into them!
I’ve been a believer in the Volt pretty much from the get-go. I’d love to drive down to some local Chevy dealer and plunk down my $40k and get one. Really, I would. But what I don’t want to do is have to deal with the local dealers (and you know who you are, Steven’s Creek dealer monopoly!!
auctioning off cars to the highest bidders. Really, I’m not particularly interested in paying the DEALER lots of money for this car. To me, it’s not about what the car is worth it’s about who is getting the money for it and why. Voting with my checkbook to the dealers gets us nowhere – voting with my checkbook to the manufacturers hopefully gets us more cars like the Volt.
There’s just so many disturbing things about this rollout. But one thing is for sure… My cash will wait on the sidelines until my money can go to a manufacturer, not a big dealer markup. I don’t know if that will ultimately turn out to be a problem or how fast things will settle down. I’ll just take a wait and see attitude and keep my eyes on it.
-4
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:21 pm)Very short sighted for GM. I have been told a car company builds cars based on dealer/buyer orders. To do anything else makes no sense. Sure they could build extra cars in anticipation of orders for a new product…. but for them to be safe and not over build why not do what most successful manufacturers do …. When a person places an order with MONEY build the product. Would work for me… AND.. GM would be happy, dealers happy and most important…. new loyal GM customers would be very happy!! :+}
-3
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:36 pm)Sorry, but it will be way too expensive. As is the case for everything else GM produces, there are much better values available elsewhere.
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:10 pm)Are you 10? This site is not run by GM so why would they honour a “want list” run by a third party?
+3
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:25 pm)Very high comment count today. Too many negatives, I think it’s time that you start making us register and remove trolls. I think I’d be fine with censorship in this venue.
+6
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:51 pm)My HHR is running fine,
driving it will give me time.
If GM cannot produce enough,
getting a VOLT will be tough.
If GM doesn’t need my money,
i’ll buy a Tesla for my honey!
+1
Jul 7th, 2010 (11:53 pm)Honda is happy to be part of the luxury truck and SUV market. They have several. But Honda’s former leader Takeo Fukui has said, we don’t want to make them stupid big. Yes a major OEM’s CEO actually said that.
Honda has also been quite miffed that they get the best fleet fuel economy figures year after year and Toyota gets to bask in a halo. “In the U.S., five of EPA’s top ten most fuel-efficient cars from 1984 to 2010 comes from Honda, more than any other automakers.” sic – Wikipedia
+1
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:07 am)I love the Volt concept. The inconvenient truth for GM is they will have served to stir the pot but will unlikely reap the rewards of their R&D. I don’t exactly prefer the Leaf but it is on course to establish market dominance. They’ll seal that deal with Leaf 2.0 either by getting a range of 200 miles or by opening a 50 mile range extension from a 10-15 minute charge.
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:08 am)How can you disagree on behalf of people you don’t even know, who are doing things every day that you have sworn you will never do?
+2
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:16 am)Exciting to see that it is finally going to happen. Disappointing that they won’t be honoring the existing list in any way. Not as disappointing as how ugly the final product ended up being though. The concept car that made me sign the list is not this car, so I guess it doesn’t matter to me if they want to ignore those of us that were willing to put our names on the list while it was still a dream. Not a fan of the dealerships and their markups. You should be able to buy it on the Internet and have the local dealership turned into a service shop only. Then GM could focus more on improved service instead of developing new ways to try and make more money off the same car the next dealership has. The dealerships did their fair share in putting Oldsmobile and Pontiac out of business. I have owned each.
+1
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:32 am)If your two vehicles are a LEAF and a Prius, then you just may ace out a Volt owner for annual gas use. Taking a less than 100 mile trip? Burn no gas at all. Taking a longer trip, get 50MPG.
+1
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:34 am)Well maybe all your other cars are on empty and in the shop for service. And you have no friends or living relatives with cars. Your coworkers have forgotten you because you’ve been retired so long. You live in an area where taxi drivers refuse to serve. Your neighbors are all really busy (because they secretly hate you). And all the rental car companies are sold out for the big week (annual event) coming up. Your motorcycle tire is flat. Your bicycle chain is broken. You can’t use your sled in the summer, Your red wagon is rusted out…….
Does this ever, ever seem irrational and paranoid at some point?
+6
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:35 am)Please no more auto playing videos. Every time I post, it starts again.
+1
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:50 am)But it’s not going to be 50k a copy. It’s also not going to be 40k a copy! With the tax credit and their previous statements it will be–maximum–32.5k with the tax credit. Whatever it costs them, they can’t charge more than that. (I know the tax credit is not the same thing as a direct credit because of the time value involved. But for a lot of people it’s the same thing.)
And, yes, I think there will be a waiting list at that price. At least compared to the planned production numbers. That’s less than the Tahoe. And they sold 9000 Tahoes in May alone. It’s also less than the CTS. And they sold over 3000 of those in May. They sold 1500 Corvettes in May. And that has an MRSP of 50k. If the Volt can’t outsell the Corvette at over 10,000 dollars less, than we’ve got problems.
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:55 am)No CA state rebate?
Jul 8th, 2010 (1:01 am)LOL. I’m actually kind of allergic to having my picture taken. But, for the record, I’m 31. I’m 5’4, long brown hair, and I was wearing a red shirt. Does that help?
Jul 8th, 2010 (1:02 am)Borrow a beater and then go car shopping. When you show up they’ll think you’re not a viable customer and will pass you off to the gomer salesman. He’ll be desperate, plus they’ll not think you’re going to go through with it anyway so they’ll offer a good deal.
Then when they run your credit they’ll go WOW, I guess he is buying.
I didn’t plan it that way. I just buy new vehicles and keep them a decade or more. When I show up looking to trade in the old car, it is pretty dang old. At first I didn’t realize why I was always getting a good, no haggle price until a salesman clued me in.
Jul 8th, 2010 (1:12 am)I don’t know how to determine profit on a product still undergoing high development costs, let alone all the variables this one faces. Time to apply or build a business case, set a price and let it fly.
Selling the first unit, “job one” will net GM -750 million dollars. Counting the receipts subtracting sunk costs and expenses for the first MY will not net a profitable Volt venture. Is the Gen I volt in for a short run until Gen II arrives? Will Gen II be so different in concept that it’s development costs are unrelated to the Volt?
Will customer feedback, remote data (OnStar), service, warranty issues be added to the costs of the initial Volt, or are they part of Gen II development costs? People act as tough they know exactly what GM should do to make a revolutionary billion dollar endeavor that involves thousands of people successful.
Most of us complaining likely couldn’t properly use the filing system and log on to the corporate intra-net let alone function comfortably and make smart decisions knowing that a billion dollars and GM’s last chance hung in the balance based on our decisions. Tick tock, the revolution is coming. Have the right decisions been made?
It’s great to move deliberately and get it right the first time. Unless your competitors run right over your numbers and eat your lunch. Will GM leave too much on the table for the Volt to be profitable? Time will tell.
Jul 8th, 2010 (1:16 am)Lead acid batteries intended for cycling applications aren’t that bad. A car battery isn’t intended for cycling, so you’re comparing apples and kumquats.
Golf cart batteries survive 250 cycles at 100% DOD and 800 cycles at 50% DOD.
2V L16 batteries survive 600 cycles at 100% DOD and 1500 cycles at 50% DOD. The 2V L16 is popular for solar applications. It is around 1300 Ah (~2.5kWh), has the same footprint as a golf cart battery and is twice as tall. Oh and they are about 130lbs and will set you back about $250 at wholesale.
Jul 8th, 2010 (1:33 am)So are you ready to run that minus the sales tax come this fall when Oregon and Washington residents come down to buy?
+4
Jul 8th, 2010 (3:18 am)There are so many Idiots here I don’t know where to start.
GO VOLT!
+1
Jul 8th, 2010 (3:28 am)LOL, You forgot skateboard!
GO EV!!!!
Jul 8th, 2010 (3:32 am)I signed up on the wait list and offered to pay a fair price. This is more of a marketing scheme. They will continue to lag behind the Japanese for many, many years! F! GM. They should stay in bankruptcy and not exit. Their crap explanation about the “early payment of gov’t money” shows they are full of it. Just listening to this guy shows he’s full of it.
Lot’s of “key” announcements today….they showed they are not even close to being a company to be respected.
-1
Jul 8th, 2010 (4:06 am)Welcome to the EV reality group Ole EV guy!!! Those who have waited long enough and now no longer! I sensed this back in the spring, when “West Coast Driver” became “Future LEAF Driver” due to GM not being open about accepting Lyle’s list or not revealing these plans up to now. Plus $99 was cheap insurance just in case GM pulled this, to place me near the front of line for an EV in WA @ end of year!
You mentioned in your post 267 that you’ve been driving EV for years, really? Since most people, it seems, on this site would have you believe, that’s NOT POSSIBLE!
Or that you might suffer from the dreaded “range” issues. Thanks for standing up and proving certain individuals here wrong!
GO EV !!!
-1
Jul 8th, 2010 (4:13 am)Sshhh Jeffhre, Dave is the all-knowning one. He speaks for all the tribe. Question him none!
Just do your own thing, and ….
GO EV!!!
+1
Jul 8th, 2010 (4:16 am)Somehow a “Tickle me Elmo” doesn’t relate to revolutionary new EV, does it?
GO EV!!!
-2
Jul 8th, 2010 (4:29 am)But Dave G, you don’t really know this to be true, do you, since you’re not an EV driver! Why don’t you ask a few of the BMW Mini-E to post their mileage results, then use those factual figures in your posts. You’ll have more creditability here on the Volt site, rather than just making up figures as you please, like you do in your lists with the LEAF/Corolla numbers. Since as we all know Dave says (and he speaks the truth people
, LOL) that man/woman can’t live with a 100 mile range EV.
Those RAV EV people have been BSing us for 10 years Dave, but thanks to you NO MORE LIES!
GO EV!!!
Jul 8th, 2010 (4:38 am)ALRIGHT! The more chargers, the better. I hear that they might even be installing them EVERY 40 miles. Guess who could benefit from those! Wink! Wink! Maybe the “End of Oil Dependence” might just start happening…..Woooo!
Nissan’s already commented that 2nd Gen will have 200 mile range, but ya, some people will still cry. I wonder what the stop-cry-point mileage will need to be?
GO EV!!!
Jul 8th, 2010 (4:54 am)By availability & price? What about MPG? Cruze to hit 45 mpg!?!?! If it’s pulling less weight than the Volt, with the same engine, it just might get better mpg!!
http://jalopnik.com/398768/2010-chevy-cruze-to-get-45-mpg-fight-prius-with-one-powertrain
This might be the reason for the hush hush on the Volt mpg. Until they can educate the public into how the Volt differs from the Cruze. But the half price Cruze might be an easy sell for GM, as opposed to the unavailable $40K VOLT!!! Ok, ok, wide release in 2012…
GO EV!!!
Jul 8th, 2010 (5:01 am)Don’t forget the fuel savings. Get cut another few grand for this.
=D-Volt
+3
Jul 8th, 2010 (5:28 am)Glad you mentioned Chelsea Sexton, Don. She’s one of the most experienced people in actual EV retailing that I know of (thanks to years of selling EV1s at Saturn dealers in California). On her Facebook page yesterday Chelsea said, somewhat sarcastically, “Volt seems to be caught in the middle between “new GM” and “old Chevy”…that tug of war is sure to end well, right?” Chelsea continued, “According to a recent webchat w/ Tony DiSalle (head of Volt mktg for Chevy) there will be no centralized Volt waiting list or buying process. Prospective buyers need to go find a certified Volt dealer and get on their list- though not all dealers will carry them, and allocation will vary with size of dealer, not interest in program. Classic old school Chevy launch for the first major vehicle launch since “new GM”. Sigh.”
Sexton later elaborates, “I agree that the dealers are a crucial piece that makes or breaks the purchase and ownership experience. I cut my automotive teeth selling Saturns, and was heavily involved in the various dealer components during the EV1 program- helping to design the processes, train the retailer staff, and working with each … See Moredepartment on a constant basis. Even helped diagnose and repair a few cars here and there. I had some stellar retailers, and have no interest in seeing folks like them excluded from the Volt process. Even have some dealer veterans of EV1 that I’d love to see pulled over to Chevy for Volt. But, we also learned a lot along the way about some of the pitfalls, regardless of how high volume a dealer might be in the core business. Unfortunately, we had plenty of folks have very poor experiences with some retailers w the inevitable variation among them. On a program as high-profile as the Volt and a technology as community-oriented as EVs, inconsistent information, experiences, processes and pricing among dealers in the early days can be catastrophic. There’s no way to entirely prevent it, but I’d prefer to see a hybrid model- one that keeps folks relatively centralized and getting the same info while the dealers are bein trained and readied with a consistent process- then people can easily be routed according to geography, hopefully to a variety of dealers who are as enthusiastic and ready to see them as you are. Unfortunately, the public has been prematurely told to go hit up their local dealer, and that they may have to try several til they find one that is in fact going to be a certified Volt dealer- and even then no guarantee that that dealer might get more than a few cars. It’s a very traditional model for a very new car, and one that risks giving a poor first impression to folks with no previous GM/Chevy experience. Meanwhile, those in the charger program areas are encouraged to start a different process with a third party (eTec, etc) and no obvious coordination to ensure they get a coordinating spot on a dealer list.”
“I know many of the Volt team well and they are utterly dedicated- but I’m not convinced that the Chevrolet (corp) folks have an appropriate appreciation for the history and sensitiities around GM getting back into EVs, and how each one of these seemingly disorganized issues affects the big picture. I wouldn’t be frustrated if I wasn’t rooting for them, but I know firsthand that hope and good intentions- and even a car so good people are willing to get arrested for it- aren’t necessarily enough.”
ATTN GM MGMT, esp Tony DiSalle: Chelsea Sexton’s comments come from someone long dedicated and highly experienced (personally) in the retailing of EVs — I urge you to consider these remarks carefully and perhaps ask her help!
Jul 8th, 2010 (6:01 am)#298 nasaman Re: Chelsea Sexton said:
I wouldn’t be frustrated if I wasn’t rooting for them, but I know firsthand that hope and good intentions- and even a car so good people are willing to get arrested for it- aren’t necessarily enough.”
I wonder when she expects gas to be back to $.89 a gallon?
+2
Jul 8th, 2010 (8:33 am)#300!
Jul 8th, 2010 (8:38 am)I have not bought an American car in decades. The Volt represents a car that I would buy. But like so many others in the Midwest, GM has essentially locked me out of the market for at least two years, maybe more. Based on the limited Volt roll-out and limited Volt production volumes, my guess is I’ll be driving a Ford way before a Chevy. I don’t wait in line for a movie or dinner, I’ll be damned if I’ll wait in a line to spend 30-40 grand on a car. By the time Volt’s are available in my area, they will be cheap knock-offs of Gen 1 and I won’t be interested.
Jul 8th, 2010 (8:51 am)good movie…
+2
Jul 8th, 2010 (9:26 am)Finally check on this as computer was in for repair last night.
1- I never said volt is Halo, you did, I asked who else has one..no one…learn to read,
2- Prius is a halo car, it has been out since 1997, 14 model yearsm and has only passed the 1.6 million, not 2, success or not, it is Toyota’s Halo car. (and BTW I did not slam it, I think it excellent, but not for me for many reasons, mainly being it uses gas way more than a volt will. and I find Japanese ergonomics are not good for my frame. I find them unconfortable to sit in for too long)
3- Yes I think Honda is a decent car, link aside, Honda is an engine comapny, that makes vehicles to put them in really…..I never brought up recalls, I know all about them, no one is perfect..you obviously feel the need to defend them though..You can check it historically. I have said I feel bad for the T, but being #1 does not mean you are the best, It means you are the 1 under the Microscope…but hey as a non GM fan on a fan sight. I would expect no less..at least unlike other trolls, you can write in comprehensible english.
As for changing the m to a b, very mature. At least I will post my name as I doubt your ID has “anonymous proxy” as a name.
Having been in the manufacturing business for 8 years, and coming from the tools side of my industry, I have seen many things. Large huge roll outs of product that management felt, with the eng team concuring, we had a solid winner. Bankruptcy (we went through one) teaches caution. as perfect as you think it may be, there will ALWAYS be something. Gm is smart. I think if you follow this (seeing as links are important to you..
Toyota offered the Prius in only 1 market (Japan for 4 YEARS) it was in the USA until it was refined enough until 2000-2001. Interesting enough, the article inthe link states…
“This first generation production Prius was launched exclusively in the automaker’s home market before going international. Clearly, so much was on the line. The gasoline-electric hybrid was a new concept to consumers. Getting it right the first time was essential. Toyota didn’t want the hybrid experience to parallel that of quick-to-market passenger car diesels in America that occurred decades ago. As we know, diesel is still working to overcome that negative reputation in the States.”
Getting it right was essential…hmmm seems that you (trolls) are slamming GM for doing what Toyota did…
Check this out…
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10805181273/one-millionth-toyota-prius-sold
# of Prius sold in 1997 its introductory year? 323.
Total cummulative 97-99, 33,219.
If GM builds 10,000 Y1, 30,000 Y2 and 60,000 Y3, they will have more Volts in the first 3 years than Toyota made the first 6, almost 7 years, and you feel this is slow?
I will at least admit that the reason they can do this is Toyota’s Prius.
Mitch
Jul 8th, 2010 (9:31 am)I live in the Midwest as well. I went ahead and bought a couple XM-3000 e-scooters which get about 30-40 mile range. My wife and I will knock out our nice weather, daily commutes with them. That will at least get us going toward electric drive. I can’t justify the Volt markup or tolerate the wait. The first company to offer a reasonably priced electric car in the Midwest will get my business.
Jul 8th, 2010 (9:33 am)My 303..1st link didn’t post.
here it is http://www.greencar.com/articles/decade-toyota-prius-hybrid.php
-3
Jul 8th, 2010 (10:08 am)Folks…it’s the battery…the cost of batteries on both plug in hybrids and electric vehicles is the show stopper. The cost of the battery packs is estimated to be $20 -30K (see Design news July 2010).
Insurance is going to sky rocket…and what about battery warranty? What is the resale value going to be when you need to replace the battery?
The battery should be leased from the manufacturer…so the owner doesn’t get stuck. W/O such a program these vehicles will go into the toilet (alla GM diesel) when the horror stories on battery costs start emerging.
-1
Jul 8th, 2010 (12:47 pm)Dude … then you are not very aware of the history of product development and release if you think GM is unique in metering out production to meet initial demand. Also, you are very unaware of very real supply chain issues and the issues of ramping up completely new production.
Have you never heard or read about the following new products:
Porsche Boxster – could not keep up with initial demand and long wait lists
Tesla Roadster – could not keep up with initial demand and long wait lists
Toyota Prius – could not keep up with initial demand and long wait lists
Apple – cannot keep up with initial demand for iPhones and iPads
Cabbage Patch dolls – could not keep up with demand
Toy Story buzz lightyear dolls – could not keep up with initial demand
Then there is the whole new technology costs more at first
New iPhone was $500 now only $99
Mercedes first with airbags, now on every car
Fuel injection first on high end cars only, now on every car
…
Y’all are whining and whinging as though the difference between 10K or 100K or 500K Volts will make a huge difference in foreign oil consumption. It’s all a drop in the bucket.
And y’all are blustering away because you are either not paying attention to real history of any product development or you are choosing it to ignore it because you “want it now” and hope that behaving like spoiled demanding children will get you the thing before anyone else.
I’m just laughing at y’all because 1) I live in California, 2) I’m techno savvy, and 3) I do have the cash to buy a volt. Get over it. We people with more money than brains always end up subsidizing development of products so folks with less money can eventually get it.
But I probably won’t buy it this year even if they offer it to me because, knowing history, it’s usually not good to buy the first generation if you want to have the money to buy more toys in the future. On the other hand, this may actually be one of the THE best generations because GM will be so darn
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Jul 8th, 2010 (1:17 pm)Buzz Lightyear & the Volt, a perfect comparison & marketing combo!
GO EV!!!!
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Jul 8th, 2010 (3:21 pm)GM: Hey we’re Green Now! We made the Volt. – Your heard about it right?
You saw the ads, right? Yeah – we’re Back – we’re Green.
You can have confidence in us again!
Yeah – Buy American = buy Green
And, so yeah, Can we sell you a Chevy Cruze?
It’s a real nice car….
(Oops!)
Buyer: Nah, I guess I’ll just get a Ford Fusion, a Prius, or somethin’ else…
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Jul 8th, 2010 (6:11 pm)Why do you think they went bankrupt ??? HAHA…
Jul 8th, 2010 (9:37 pm)It would be nice if they were sold so indentured servants could afford them too.
Jul 8th, 2010 (11:02 pm)In Pennsylvania, we are able to buy ALL our electricity from sustainable, green sources. We do. All of it. It’s not that much more costly. As we live in megopolis, most of our driving is way less than 40 miles but with lots of traffic lights and hills, definitely could benefit greatly from regenerative braking. We waste much too much gas at traffic lights and stop signs. We have many grandkids; this kind of waste has become a major moral issue for us.
Otherwise, we love our two Pontiac Gran Prix sedans. They continue to do the job well. For the moment, we just drive a lot less and use the Internet a lot more, with supplementation by train travel. We took the Autotrain to Florida with two cars and a bunch of kids, for example, at 400 mpg.
Plugging in a Volt is our dream. It would mean nearly ALL our driving would be free of fossil fuel, emissions of any kind, and environmentally friendly and sustainable. A Prius is a nice step in the right direction for many people but doesn’t get the job done for us.
We need the Volt to be our primary car, viz:
(1) We often travel with young children and if we forget to plug in or don’t have time, we cannot afford to run out of electricity, stop and wait hours to recharge.
(2) The car must be big enough to lug kids and things around, like our sports sedans do now. Car seats are a major issue as is safety factors such as crumple space.
(3) Reliability is extremely important. It can’t accelerate suddenly or stop braking or not work.
(4) We need a local dealer for warranty, State Inspections, oil/lube and the like; we’re not interested in driving more than a modest distance for that.
(5) I’m willing to pay more, but not that much more; maybe 8K$. We can do without the luxury items to get the price down, and we are prepared to never buy where there is price gouging.
Right now, we don’t have any idea what the price, packages and specs are for the production Volt. I may not want one in 2011. In any case, I am not in one of the initial target markets, so there will probably not be any cars in my area to even look at until 2012 or beyond.
We are perfectly willing to wait. Let’s see what the Volt delivers. I’m betting it will be a huge success and we will buy one in 2013 or 2014 when our local dealer has a basic model at a reasonable price. If the Volt were available locally to me in 2011, reasonably priced and turn out to be as good as we think it will be, then we would certainly be happy to buy one in 2011.
Jul 9th, 2010 (9:24 am)So I have been waiting for the Volt; it seems like forever. I have even set aside 40+K to buy one. But I am getting tired of waiting and it looks like I will need to look around for other options. It looks like the Prius PHV allows for 13 miles of battery type driving and that is suitable for most of my needs. I should be able to get this vehicle before the Volt is available to me. As far as going to a dealer and putting myself on their list; GM has closed the only chevy dealer in town. There is a Honda dealer only about 2 miles from my door. Probably should go see what they have.
Jul 9th, 2010 (4:30 pm)Everyone calm down! You do not have to live in a state or market that is authorized for the rollout! Just find a dealer near you and call the Chevy dealer and get on the list. The sales people don’t care where you live, all they care about is money and the sale. I live in Las Vegas Nevada. I checked the BBB website for a highly rated dealer in California, I called a dealer and put down a $500 deposit with a credit card over the phone. I am now 5th in line for their first shipment of 10-12 Volts. When my Volt arrives I will fly oneway, take a cab to the dealer and drive home to Vegas with a big smile on my face. Try it…it makes you feel really good!!!
Jul 10th, 2010 (7:57 am)One perspective is if GM waits long enough to actually mass produce the Volt, the all electric vehicles will provide the same functionality, i.e., 300 mile range, with the same charge times of the current Volt. The Volt will not be able to compete on functionality. That will be another large investment in R&D that does not make a product they could capitalize on. They have failed in the past in many ways…. why not incur the risk earlier in the electric vehicle world in order to own that space. If they fail, it’s just another failure in a long list of failures. If they succeed, they could significantly minimize the tarnish on their current reputation.
Jul 10th, 2010 (6:08 pm)I’ll buy bio-fuels.
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Jul 11th, 2010 (3:31 pm)“I’ll buy biofuels.”
Too bad biofuels are a total fraud. Gigantic water consumption, pricing edible crops out of
the range of the poor, using more energy to produce than they save. Yeah, biofuels sound like the way to go.
After all this testing, if GM still fears a costly showstopper, then they ought to go into some other business. God knows what they’re qualified to do.
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Jul 12th, 2010 (9:58 pm)“Bill Marsh:
# 67 Well, so much for the ‘no deposit should be required’.
I just talked to 5 dealerships in the DC area and 4 of 5 are requiring a $2000 deposit. I guess that would be because they don’t want people like me getting on lists at every dealership and giving a false impression of demand.
Probably a good idea, lots of joyriders around.. did they say anything about MSRP or “added dealer profit”?”
It’s also possible they are looking for a cheap way to finance their inventory. How does a buyer know if the dealers really have Volts allocated? You get on a list, then in November, call the dealer and get a lame excuse, (Your Volt fell off the truck) and “wait untl next month”.
I drove one recently and it looks like the enginers really did a good job getting this car ready for prime time. But I don’t have any reason to trust the dealers who sell these cars.
GM should publish a list of the dealers and their allocations. Or maybe we should build a list of dealers taking orders to see how many of us are “first on the list” at dealers in the trget markets.
Jul 14th, 2010 (7:38 pm)I’ll either get a Volt or a Leaf, but until they are available, I’ll keep driving the S10 I converted to electric. I went from $300 a month in gas to about $30 in electric! I can beat almost anything out there, till I get close to top speed. And I have the crappy lead acid deep cycle batteries!