Jun 28

Report: Chevrolet Volt Gas Tank is 9 Gallons

 

[ad#post_ad]A simple question that GM has always refused to answer publicly since the beginning is what the size of the Chevrolet Volt’s gas tank will be.

Long ago, then vehicle line director Frank Weber told me it would be between 6 and 10 gallons but would not be more specific.  One reason often given for the lack of specificity was that engineers were still refining what the car’s total range would be and would trade off size and weight of the full gas tank to acheive it.  Though never admitted, clearly fuel economy in range-extended mode has also been a critical variable.

A few weeks ago I received an email from Eric Evarts of Consumer Reports.  Eric wanted to know if I could help get them a test drive.  I provided him with one of the Volt communications people’s contacts, and last week two nearly fininalized Volt prototypes built off the DHAM line were driven 750 miles up to the CR test track in Connecticut to be put through some paces.

In his report, Evarts writes that the Volt’s tank would be nine gallons in size, allowing the car to achieve “well above,” the planned 300 miles of extended range, after the first 40 electric miles are depleted.

GM had always said they were aiming for a total of 340 or 350 miles of range.  The presence of a nine gallon tank either means the range will be nearly 500 miles, well above previous promises, or that mpg in extended range is only in the low 30s.  These facts remain to be disclosed.

I did confirm with Mr. Evarts the nine gallon number he published.  ”That’s what they tell us,” he said. “I imagine it’s rounded.”

Below is the CR video review.  It fair to say it was very glowing; the car is silent, handles nicely, and looks good are some things the reviewer said.  He also said it has a lot of torque and was surprsiging powerful, and that he found it roomly and comfortable as well.

The reviewer claimed the car will sell at around $40,000 before the $7500 tax break brings it to the low 30s.

We’ll see.


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This entry was posted on Monday, June 28th, 2010 at 7:16 am and is filed under Efficiency, Features, Fuel, Test drive. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 231


  1. 1
    ziv

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:22 am)

    I believe in under promise and over deliver but claiming a range of 300 miles after the battery reaches its 40 mile limit is pretty odd if they have a 9 gallon tank. Unless they have just upsized it due to the realization that they don’t need to shave every pound possible to get 40 miles AER in city driving after all. I have always believed that the charge sustaining mpg would be at or very near 50 mpg but this info makes me question that. A 490 mile total range is a bit of overkill if the car gets 50 mpg. “Drive more than 400 miles before you need to stop for gas!” would be a great selling point and would be true with a 7.5 gallon tank that takes up less space and weighs less. The 400+ mile range would seem to be the way to market the Volts advantage over BEV’s, so it may be that those of us that thought the Volt would get 50 mpg or more are wrong. We always knew that the energy conversion losses would be substantial but it would appear that the pessimists may have been right.
    Good thing I would drive less than 15% of my miles in Charge Sustaining mode if, IF, the mileage is less than 50 mpg!


  2. 2
    nasaman

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:22 am)

    Kudos, Lyle! Clever of you to help Consumer Reports (& in return they then confirm GM told them 9 gals is the tank size)!

    I’ve long hoped the tank would be large enough to allow at least claiming a total trip range of ~500 miles because I believe it’s important for marketing reasons (but of course less important than the still-secret CS mpg).

    PS: Nice to have a glimpse under the hoode too!


  3. 3
    Dave G

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:25 am)

    From the article: The reviewer claimed the car will sell at around $40,000 before the $7500 tax break brings it to the low 30s.

    We’ll see.

    Know something we don’t Lyle? ;)


  4. 4
    Eco_Turbo

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:26 am)

    Figuring out Volt’s true attributes is becoming more like deciding which college football team is the best.


  5. 5
    Keith

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:28 am)

    Seems to be right the way I see it .


  6. 6
    Tim Hart

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:34 am)

    Thanks, Lyle. If CR had the Volt for an extended test drive they should have been able to get pretty accurate numbers on the MPG in the generator mode. I haven’t seen the article. Any info in that regard?


  7. 7
    VOLTinME

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:37 am)

    Isn’t the CR video the first to see what is under the hood? I don’t think we have seen this yet. Lot’s of orange cabling. Interesting.


  8. 8
    Schmeltz

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:37 am)

    I would be suprised if the efficiency of the gas engine was in the low 30′s mpg. That just seems too low for a motor that isn’t mechanically linked to the drivetrain. Besides, I could be dreaming but I thought Farah had mentioned or alluded to this motor getting in the 40′s or close to 50 mpg? Does anyone else recall that?


  9. 9
    voltaholic

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:42 am)

    Very packed looking engine compartment…..the normal fluid checks appear to be accessible…I suspect that the orange wires imply that caution should be observed if they are to be messed with


  10. 10
    Dave K.

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:43 am)

    Whether 38mpg CS, 48mpg CS, or 58mpg CS. 9 gallons is a good number.

    =D-Volt


  11. 11
    Eco_Turbo

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:46 am)

    All seems to hinge on how much electric regen helps during highway cruising.


  12. 12
    Nick D

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:51 am)

    Both of my past 2 cars (Scion XB and Prius) had an 11 gallon gas tank. If i filled the tank promptly when the low fuel light came on the tank would accept 9.1 gallons.

    If the situation is the same here then of the 9 gallon tank they would make 7 useable before the low fuel indicator giving plenty of time to get gas before you run out.

    They also stated above that they wanted a range closer to 350 miles…

    350 / 7 = 50 MPG


  13. 13
    crew

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:51 am)

    3,800 lbs.
    Is that as tested?
    Does CR use a scale?
    40 mpg never mind 50 with that kind of weight is impressive. If the weight quote is correct then nothing on the road today can compare.

    Sets the bar pretty high at any price.


  14. 14
    Jim in PA

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:01 am)

    This Consumer Reports review is like listening to your b*tchy aunt at Thanksgiving dinner dishing out back-handed compliments.

    “The Volt handling actually isn’t THAT bad….” Well gee, was it supposed to be?
    “And the acceleration is ACTUALLY fairly good…” As opposed to your preconceptions, you mean?
    “And the car SURPRISINGLY didn’t remind me of stepping in dog crap!” OK, so I made that last one up, but you get the idea.


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    Lee

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:02 am)

    What has been said numerous times, in different ways on this site is that CS MPG will depend on driving style. The heavy-footed freeway driver using all accessories will get 25-30 in CS, the hyper-miler will get 60-70. What does that average–46 mpg. Driving style will be huge with an electric drivetrain and accessories.


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    JohnK

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:03 am)

    Since we are starting to get close to delivery, what about cost items like dealer prep, state sales taxes, etc. Michigan has a 6% sales tax – not trivial ($2400).


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    KenEE

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:05 am)

    I find it strange to refer to this as “Range” as though you go 300 miles and then you’re (presumably) “Out of Range”.

    It *has no range*. Just like any other ICE car, you just pop into a gas station and fill ‘er up.

    “Range” is associated with BEV’s because of the extended charge time that disrupts your trip. Not true with a conventional ICE automobile, and not true with the Volt.

    Ken


  18. 18
    JohnK

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:06 am)

    voltaholic: the orange wires imply that caution

    Orange usually means silicone rubber, which has premium physical characteristics, like flexibility and temperature tollerance.


  19. 19
    Nelson

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:06 am)

    CSM is a variable after all. The ICE is not always running at the same RPM’s. I’m sure the ICE MPG will vary depending on the RPM’s the ICE is operating on. Knowing this, I’d like to know two things. What is the MPG while the ICE is at max RPM during highway driving and what is its MPG while maintaining City driving charge.

    135 Days and counting!

    NPNS!


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    crew

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:08 am)

    Jim in PA:
    This Consumer Reports review is like listening to your b*tchy aunt at Thanksgiving dinner dishing out back-handed compliments.
    “The Volt handling actually isn’t THAT bad….”Well gee, was it supposed to be?
    “And the acceleration is ACTUALLY fairly good…”As opposed to your preconceptions, you mean?
    “And the car SURPRISINGLY didn’t remind me of stepping in dog crap!”OK, so I made that last one up, but you get the idea.

    Maybe he drives a Prius? (I’m not sure if this is lol, import bias reporting,… this is Consumer Report in a GM car after all)


  21. 21
    Darren

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:13 am)

    That’s about 34 litres for Canadians


  22. 22
    neutron

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:25 am)

    “GM had always said they were aiming for a total of 340 or 350 miles of range. The presence of a nine gallon tank either means the range will be nearly 500 miles, well above previous promises, or that mpg in extended range is only in the low 30s. These facts remain to be disclosed.”

    I hope ZIV #1 is correct. A lot of companies like HP, Apple, etc. follow the “under promise over deliver” scenario. This should be the philosophy for GM.

    If the ICE is in the 30 MPG range it would be quite a disappointment.
    This would dampen the appeal of a car that should use a minimal amount of gas when it is needed.

    I would prefer the higher range of 500 miles between fill ups.

    Cannot wait ’til delivery date to see this car in action…… maybe one I own :+}


  23. 23
    Dave K.

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:28 am)

    Jim in PA: This Consumer Reports review is like listening to…

    Doesn’t come off very well. But need to give credit for animation and freshness. Kind of like the Volt dancers.
    Would you rather see a corduroy sport coat with elbow protectors?

    =D-Volt


  24. 24
    Eco_Turbo

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:36 am)

    Nick D said:

    of the 9 gallon tank they would make 7 useable

    Good point.


  25. 25
    CorvetteGuy

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:36 am)

    9 gallons or 00.9 gallons… It doesn’t matter. My commute would be pure EV Mode anyway.


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    Eco_Turbo

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:40 am)

    CorvetteGuy said:

    9 gallons or 00.9 gallons… It doesn’t matter. My commute would be pure EV Mode anyway.

    But what if that Prius made you want to kick it into overdrive?


  27. 27
    Gary

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:42 am)

    (click to show comment)


  28. 28
    tom w

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:46 am)

    As was stated above, any tank is never emptied to the last drop. So a good guess on a 9 gallon tank is at least 7 gallons towards practical range.

    Also does an empty 9 gallon tank weigh much more than an empty 6 gallon tank?

    I would think most people would never top of their tank anyways otherwise it would be months between fillups. The only time to top off the tank is before long trips or for those that have long commutes and can’t charge during the day.

    The whole point to the car is to not use gas most of the time. So I would think folks that buy the Leaf and have commutes over 40 miles will try and find a way to charge at work most days.

    But the extended range will cover the unusual trips.

    My goal is to virtually never use gas.


  29. 29
    Carcus

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:46 am)

    (click to show comment)


  30. 30
    solo

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:53 am)

    WOW. The Volt is a hatchback! I didn’t know that. My first new car, a Dodge Lancer in 1985, was a hatchback and I loved it. To my knowledge it will be the first hatchback sedan available in years from ANY car maker. (I’m not counting goofy station wagon looking things or Mini SUV’s, but REAL sedan looking cars).

    You can cram a lot of stuff in a hatchback and it will make the car far more practical for many owners. I would buy it if it was a conventional car.


  31. 31
    flmark

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:54 am)

    Jim in PA: This Consumer Reports review is like listening to your b*tchy aunt at Thanksgiving dinner dishing out back-handed compliments.“The Volt handling actually isn’t THAT bad….” Well gee, was it supposed to be?“And the acceleration is ACTUALLY fairly good…” As opposed to your preconceptions, you mean?“And the car SURPRISINGLY didn’t remind me of stepping in dog crap!” OK, so I made that last one up, but you get the idea.  (Quote)

    Somebody who claimed an affiliation with CR wrote in yesterday and claimed no bias. I don’t buy it. People (and organizations) who have a bias usually are ignorant of it. Those of us without the bias can see it. [Like why would the governor of LA want MORE offshore drilling?] I have been watching CR’s anti-Detroit bias for approximately 30 years and it is blatant. I bought a 1984 Caprice Classic, kept it for 10 years (over 100K miles) and replaced it with a 1993 Buick Roadmaster and it did even better (15 years and 140K miles). While Detroit may have gotten a number of things wrong over the years, Japan could never touch their big-car success. Those old family cars could hold 6 people, lots of luggage and were well built. Yet CR never gave them credit for it. I saw the bias and it was REAL. So real that CR looked like idiots with all the Toyota recalls- eating TONS of crow. I am happy that CR seems to like the Volt, but I won’t let them sway my vote one bit.


  32. 32
    MICHIGAN GUY

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:56 am)

    9 GALLONS. This is smart. If the Chevy Volt will be sold as an electric vehicle with range-extension, that “range extension” better be good or the competition will walk all over anything less than what they have. This is marketing savvy.

    And smart Volt owners will know that they don’t have to drive around with a full tank if they rarely use it. Just keep a few gallon in the tank. Fill it up if needed.


  33. 33
    flmark

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:08 am)

    solo: WOW. The Volt is a hatchback! I didn’t know that. My first new car, a Dodge Lancer in 1985, was a hatchback and I loved it. To my knowledge it will be the first hatchback sedan available in years from ANY car maker. (I’m not counting goofy station wagon looking things or Mini SUV’s, but REAL sedan looking cars).You can cram a lot of stuff in a hatchback and it will make the car far more practical for many owners. I would buy it if it was a conventional car.  (Quote)

    You haven’t been looking. Check out the Prius. Same concept. I hated the looks of hatchback cars 20 years ago. Car makers have made great strides. Hatchbacks are enormously utilitarian for these smaller vehicles. You will be AMAZED how much stuff you can bring back from your shopping trips.


  34. 34
    Herto

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:13 am)

    solo:
    WOW.The Volt is a hatchback! I didn’t know that.My first new car, a Dodge Lancer in 1985, was a hatchback and I loved it.To my knowledge it will be the first hatchback sedan available in years from ANY car maker. (I’m not counting goofy station wagon looking things or Mini SUV’s, but REAL sedan looking cars).
    You can cram a lot of stuff in a hatchback and it will make the car far more practical for many owners. I would buy it if it was a conventional car.

    First hatchback in US maybe… not in europe, by far! Some sedans (Citroen’s, Renault’s, Opel’s for instance) are hatchback for years. And the Volt is rather a compact in size than a sedan.


  35. 35
    Schmeltz

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:32 am)

    I found this article on this very site dated April 13, 2010, where Lyle interviewed Micky Bly and Andrew Farah. You can read it here:

    http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/13/update-chevy-volt-is-meeting-electric-range-and-charge-sustaining-mpg-goals/

    To sum up, Andrew mentions regarding the range extender engine, ““I still use the target of 50 MPG as the bogey,” said Farah. “So far I haven’t been disappointed.”

    Therefore, if the tank is approximately 9 gallons, and you get roughly 50 mpg in range extension, plus 40 miles of EV range, you get a total of 490 miles range. Based on that, I am leaning on the 500 mile range Lyle suggests in his article today.


  36. 36
    stuart22

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:33 am)

    Maybe GM’s intent is to give it a range capability that’s head and shoulders above not only BEVs but ICEs as well. Then they can really and truly say the Volt stands above all.

    Or maybe it only gets 32mpg in CS mode…. bummer if that;s the case.


  37. 37
    Eisemann

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:41 am)

    I have always said and always believed in one thing

    Consumer Distorts

    Consumer Distorts is one of the MOST biased magazines out there. They say they are NON PROFIT but they take heavy donations from companies.

    There largest Donator is Toyota. They are heavily biased magazines.

    When I was a kid I worked at a TV repair store and we took apart TV sets and knew what the Chassis looked like and we knew that the GE TV and the RCA were the exact same set with Badge re-engineering.

    The GE scored the highest in CR tests and the RCA was the lowest. After this I lost respect for CR.

    Time and Time again CR rates only Toyota cars good. I think they need a Government Audit of their funds from Toyota.


  38. 38
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:46 am)

    Jim in PA: This Consumer Reports review is like listening to your b*tchy aunt at Thanksgiving dinner dishing out back-handed compliments.

    “The Volt handling actually isn’t THAT bad….” Well gee, was it supposed to be?
    “And the acceleration is ACTUALLY fairly good…” As opposed to your preconceptions, you mean?
    “And the car SURPRISINGLY didn’t remind me of stepping in dog crap!” OK, so I made that last one up, but you get the idea.

    Yes, he’s battling preconceptions. You can hear the pleasant surprise in his voice, as he says “Not bad…” This surprise is going to be mirrored quite a few times in quite a few places over the coming weeks and months.

    flmark: Somebody who claimed an affiliation with CR wrote in yesterday and claimed no bias. I don’t buy it.

    (from yesterday):

    joe: … Consumer Reports … Too bad the Volt does not have the Honda or Toyota insignia on it. It would have been nothing but rave even from it’s first encounter.

    vegaselectric: Consumer Report’s uses actual Consumer Report’s customers responses on rating vehicles. Their customers, like myself, go through an extra long list of vehicle repair questions and service related issues with our personal vehicles. It is from that list of vehicle data that their statistics are formed.

    Both of these viewpoints have merit simultaneously. Yes, Consumer Reports ratings are developed with data from actual owners. Yes, GM and other American makes frequently come off badly vs. their (particularly Asian) competition. The temptation here is to blame Radar for the weather: what CR anti-American bias illustrates is the perception of the American driving public at large, which colors anything less-than-perfect with an American car. This ill-will has taken decades to form, and will not go away quickly.

    Even with perfect offerings, GM has a lot of built-up inertia to overcome.

    Even having said this, CR does seem to know the prejudices of it’s members pretty well …


  39. 39
    Jim I

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:53 am)

    Let me get this straight:

    C/R has to ask Lyle to get them a test drive????

    That says a lot for Lyle, and not much for the people at C/R.

    And I’ll bet that in a day or so, someone at GM will say the 9 gallon figure is not accurate…..

    It will be a long 153 days, if this is how the info is going to be passed out to us!!!!

    And would it have killed the reviewer to say something like “Surprisingly good” instead of all of the “Not Bad”? Wording is everything in a review…………


  40. 40
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:53 am)

    So now we know the gas tank volume, but not the actual range. A=B, B=A. The CS-mode MPG saga continues.

    Holding a 2 gallon reserve makes sense and has been a feature of every car I know of sold in the US during my lifetime. I had wondered how the Volt would handle this, but wonder no more. Nick D (#12) is undoubtedly correct.

    Thanks Schmeltz, for citing this article; I was going to mention it, but would’ve been too lazy to look it up:

    Schmeltz: http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/13/update-chevy-volt-is-meeting-electric-range-and-charge-sustaining-mpg-goals/


  41. 41
    Herm

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:54 am)

    tom w: Also does an empty 9 gallon tank weigh much more than an empty 6 gallon tank?

    Yes, these are pressurized heavy duty tanks.. and most importantly larger tanks take up more space.. the tank is located right behind the battery, perhaps you want to add a bit more padding for crash protection or something like that.

    There will be people (probably a very large number, you would be shocked) that will fill up their tanks every 2-3 years.. whats the utility of a 9 gallon tank?.. more of a liability I would think.


  42. 42
    Money Pit

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:58 am)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:02 am)

    That’s great news! Hopefully, this means that GM listened to some advertising/market research, that showed that people really value range.


  44. 44
    Auto Engineer

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:04 am)

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    Dave

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:07 am)

    To achieve the promised 350 mile range, the Volt needs to be able to “generate” about 34.5 mpg in CS mode (ICE running). ( 34.5 x 9 gal = 310 miles ) Add your 40 all electric miles and you have the promised 350 mile range. I consider this a “Worst case scenario” however…. and even if true, I am still going to want a Volt for that all important 40 mile all electric range. I strongly believe that GM is “under promising” with this vehicle….and when we get the real numbers that are “achievable” with this system, we will all be quite satisfied.


  46. 46
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:08 am)

    Money Pit: CR is not biased, they take no “donations” from anyone for any product, it 100% funded by the sales of the magazine and online content

    The people who wine are the ones that get mad because objective testing shows results that don’t agree with there beliefs, how ever they came by them.

    If brands ABC are constantly better in testing, and show brand CGF are lower value, thats the cold hard truth, which few can digest.

    It’s cold hard tabulation of widely held biases which makes CR look prejudiced. This is the battle GM is fighting with the Volt. CR makes a good one-stop intelligence source.

    I’d expect CR to purchase not only a Volt, but a LEAF. Hearing their take on EREV vs BEV in real-world driving ought to be interesting.

    Money Pit: OK you fanboys, start clicking the votes, I know you don’t like the truth!

    Oh, I’m sorry. Didn’t notice you were a troll. Never mind!


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    Dave G

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:10 am)

    Schmeltz: Besides, I could be dreaming but I thought Farah had mentioned or alluded to this motor getting in the 40’s or close to 50 mpg? Does anyone else recall that?

    http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/13/update-chevy-volt-is-meeting-electric-range-and-charge-sustaining-mpg-goals/
    “Farah explained the team is still using the original 2007 concept’s goal of 50 mpg, and for the first time provided a clue as to how it will turn out.

    “I still use the target of 50 MPG as the bogey,” said Farah. “So far I haven’t been disappointed.”

    He clarified that the 50 MPG target is unadjusted, and that the official number will be “released closer to production.””


  48. 48
    Grouch

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:10 am)

    flmark: Japan could never touch their big-car success. Those old family cars could hold 6 people, lots of luggage and were well built

    And the Japanese haven’t matched Ford/GM’s big truck and SUV successes, either.

    But, what if I want a small car? Oh, right, I buy a Toyota or a Honda. And both the Grand Marquis and the Cobalt that I rented on recent trips reminded me of how awesomely well suited to my needs and tastes the Prius that we have at home is.

    I’ve owned about 5 brands of cars, and Consumer Reports reliability-ratings have been a fairly spot-on predictor of how much of a maintenance-hassle a car is going to be.

    Since I’ve never bought a new car before, I’ve never had much use for their list of favorite cars. But their used-car reliability scores have been incredibly accurate and useful.

    Fortunately, it looks like the Volt is GM’s attempt at a Prius-killer. I’ll love any car that makes my Prius obsolete by being better, and I have high hopes for the Volt. Just like I tend to reserve judgment on the reliability of a car until it rolls over 100,000 miles, I’ll have to reserve judgment on the Volt until I see one at my local Chevy dealer.


  49. 49
    DonC

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:18 am)

    I’ve never understood why the size of the gas tank in an electric vehicle is so important. The gas engine is supposed to be a supplement not the primary propulsion system. In some ways it would be better if it the tank was smaller in that, if you need a large gas tank, then the Volt is probably not the vehicle you want.


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    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:20 am)

    Herm: There will be people (probably a very large number, you would be shocked) that will fill up their tanks every 2-3 years.. whats the utility of a 9 gallon tank?.. more of a liability I would think.

    Speaking just for myself, if I’m going to go to the trouble to stop at a gas station, I’m always going to fill up (10 gallon tank with mpg which has never exceeded 35). When this becomes a rare exercise with a Volt, that may change. I have a feeling that even at this, I’m going to want to take careful note of mileage (with a full tank) just out of my own curiosity.

    This leads me to wonder: Will the Volt keep running totals of miles traveled all electric separately from miles traveled in charge-sustain mode, or only total miles? Calculating true CS-mode mpg could prove difficult, unless one starts out with a pack at 30% SOC on a road trip.

    I would think that providing a running total of electric miles would visibly bolster the premise behind the Volt, letting the first owners see how much of their driving is gas-free.


  51. 51
    Michael

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:20 am)

    OT but pretty interesting – for Texans:

    Dallas News (Business) “NRG plans flat-rate deal for unlimited charges for electric cars

    “NRG Energy Inc. is about to offer Texans the first all-you-can-eat electric vehicle plan.

    “The power company, which owns Reliant Energy, will introduce an electric vehicle refueling service early next year. The service will include unlimited charges at home and at charging stations throughout Houston. It will cost around $60 to $80 a month.”

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/industries/energy/stories/DN-elecvehicle_23bus.ART.State.Edition1.1aaad47.html


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    Brutus Butch Beefcake

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:20 am)

    (click to show comment)


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    Dave G

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:20 am)

    Jim I: C/R has to ask Lyle to get them a test drive????
    That says a lot for Lyle, and not much for the people at C/R.

    Two things to remember:

    1) At this point, I believe Lyle is fairly well connected with the GM Volt team. He can just pick up the phone.

    2) Consumer Reports typically doesn’t talk to car manufacturers. For their test cars, they go to the dealer an buy a car like everyone else. I’m not even sure if dealers are aware which cars are being sold to Consumer Reports.


  54. 54
    Schmeltz

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:22 am)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): Thanks Schmeltz, for citing this article

    No problem. I was racking my brains this morning because I remembered distinctly reading somewhere that the Range Extending gas engine was achieving approximately 50 mpg. Turns out it was HERE that I read that! LOL!


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    Loboc

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:23 am)

    I can’t see holding more than 10% reserve (.9 gallons) with a 9-gallon tank and 50mpg. (45 miles reserve)

    However, my truck sets the low-fuel light at 4-gallons reserve on a 24 gallon tank. (16%). (64 miles reserve @ 16mpg.


  56. 56
    Dave G

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:26 am)

    Brutus Butch Beefcake: No doubt they went from initial 6 gallon tank to a whopping 9 gallon after they realized the absolutely horrific gas mileage of the huge 1.4L inefficient motor was getting in real world tests.

    The Prius uses a 1.8L gas engine and gets 50 MPG.

    The size of the engine matters less than how it’s tuned. Specifically, I believe the timing of the intake and exhaust valves can be optimized for power or efficiency. Since the electric motor provides maximum power, there’s no need for the Volt’s gas engine to tuned for power, so it can be tuned for efficiency.


  57. 57
    Reginald Cornwell IV

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:27 am)

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    Steve

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:27 am)

    I think calculating the mileage in CS mode by the size of the fuel tank has so many unknowns in it that it’s almost useless. My SWAG is the CS mileage rating is between 40-50 mpg and if the tank is that big the absolute range before running out is much better that 300-400 miles. Maybe we need to factor in a fuel “range anxiety” too. Many of us don’t let the tank go below a half or a quarter “just in case.”

    Do we know how many times they stopped for gas on the trip form Michigan? That might be another clue.

    Would have been nice to take a peek while it was in CT.


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    Dave G

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:30 am)

    stuart22: Maybe GM’s intent is to give it a range capability that’s head and shoulders above not only BEVs but ICEs as well. Then they can really and truly say the Volt stands above all.

    Yes, that seems to be the case.


  60. 60
    Auto Engineer

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:33 am)

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    DonC

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:33 am)

    Money Pit: The people who wine are the ones that get mad because objective testing shows results that don’t agree with there beliefs, how ever they came by them.

    If this is true then how do you explain that the CR completely missed the problems at Toyota? These problems were so severe that the insurance industry saw a spike in deaths and injuries. Did the CR numbers reflect this? Nope, the CR numbers didn’t budge.

    Now that the problems have been well publicized we’ll see what happens.

    As for bias, you don’t have to be biased to be wrong. Personally I’m not wild about unscientific samples of select populations. IOW if the CR members had voluntarily participated in a poll of the last presidential race what do you think the numbers would have looked like? This isn’t to say that the CR numbers are meaningless, just that they’re not based on scientifically valid sampling techniques.


  62. 62
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:33 am)

    Reginald Cornwell IV: All you blind GM fanbois are disgusting on this site. You reek of the foul odor of sheep !  

    Well well well, where have you been, No-Name? Long time, no sheep.

    Haven’t missed you at all.

    Carry On …


  63. 63
    George S. Bower

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:35 am)

    Dave G:
    http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/13/update-chevy-volt-is-meeting-electric-range-and-charge-sustaining-mpg-goals/
    “Farah explained the team is still using the original 2007 concept’s goal of 50 mpg, and for the first time provided a clue as to how it will turn out.“I still use the target of 50 MPG as the bogey,” said Farah. “So far I haven’t been disappointed.”He clarified that the 50 MPG target is unadjusted, and that the official number will be “released closer to production.””   

    Yes unadjusted is a biggy. Last time I looked, the adjustment was around 14%. So, 50x.86=43 MPG. and 7×43+40=341 range.


  64. 64
    George S. Bower

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:38 am)

    Todays news also implies to me that Herm’s theory on the planetary gearset is a more plausible one then the Volt is series parallel. ie the gear set just takes care of matching the twin traction motors (should I say 2 motors in one). and that there is no mechanical connection between ICE and wheels.


  65. 65
    Dan Whitlock

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:40 am)

    Those who plan on only putting a few gallons of gas in the tank, and running with less than a full tanks, should be aware that the liquid in the tank acts as a heat sink and reduces the temperature extremes within the tank. The thin metal of the portion of the tank above the liquid level will fluctuate in temperature with the temperature of the air and can form condensation wich can cause water to be mixed in with the gas causing all kinds of problems. Better to keep the tank full and add a gasoline stabilizer to the fuel.


  66. 66
    madeinxhina

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:41 am)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:43 am)

    Brutus Butch Beefcake: No doubt they went from initial 6 gallon tank to a whopping 9 gallon after they realized the absolutely horrific gas mileage of the huge 1.4L inefficient motor was getting in real world tests.Such a shame they just chose the wrong motor to put in this hybrid trying to save a few bucks by grabbing an already designed OTS engine instead of properly building a purpose-driven motor with atkinson cyle.2 words: POOR ENGINEERING GM -1  (Quote)

    When the gas guzzling Prius has a 1.8 liter engine? Don’t think so.


  68. 68
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:44 am)

    DonC: I’ve never understood why the size of the gas tank in an electric vehicle is so important. The gas engine is supposed to be a supplement not the primary propulsion system. In some ways it would be better if it the tank was smaller in that, if you need a large gas tank, then the Volt is probably not the vehicle you want.  

    I think the only reason people here care is because this was thought to offer a clue to the super-secret CS-mode mpg. Of course now we know the size, but not the actual range.

    People at large? Who knows. We tend to be creatures of habit. If someone isn’t going to want to manage the minuscule range of a current BEV, what makes anyone think that they’ll treat gasoline any differently (at least, in the beginning?) I have to fuss at my wife to refill her V6 Solara (came up with a half gallon to spare, last fill-up; hardly even exciting).

    The Volt is intended to be a real car, with the capability of being used by the non-enthusiast. Fuel tank size and overall range is relevant.


  69. 69
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:47 am)

    Dan Whitlock: Those who plan on only putting a few gallons of gas in the tank, and running with less than a full tanks, should be aware that the liquid in the tank acts as a heat sink and reduces the temperature extremes within the tank. The thin metal of the portion of the tank above the liquid level will fluctuate in temperature with the temperature of the air and can form condensation wich can cause water to be mixed in with the gas causing all kinds of problems. Better to keep the tank full and add a gasoline stabilizer to the fuel.  

    The Volt’s fuel system is almost unique in having a thick-walled, pressurized fuel tank; precisely to deal with the problems of keeping gas on-board, unused for long periods. There would be little opportunity for water vapor to enter the tank, and the thicker walls would be less susceptible to the temperature fluctuations you mention.


  70. 70
    Mike-o-Matic

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:49 am)

    Dave G:
    Know something we don’t Lyle?   

    Yes! An awful lot about neurology.


  71. 71
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:55 am)

    Michael: NRG Energy Inc. is about to offer Texans the first all-you-can-eat electric vehicle plan.

    Yummy!!!


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    madeinxhina

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:55 am)

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    Mitch

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:00 am)

    Reginald Cornwell IV: All you blind GM fanbois are disgusting on this site. You reek of the foul odor of sheep !  (Quote)

    if you leave, I believe the smell will go with you…unless you wash your d…


  74. 74
    madeinxhina

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:05 am)

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    Herm

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:07 am)

    madeinxhina: Haha, you dum people talk about volt you call ev but you all talk about the car uae gas and how far to go on gas. Very stupid car for very dum dum people.  

    You know, he is right.. this is all we ever talk about.


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    solo

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:15 am)

    flmark: solo

    OOPS! I forgot the Prius. The Honda Insight is probably a hatchback too since Honda designers obviously pinned a photo of the Prius in the design studio when they went to work.


  77. 77
    Loboc

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:16 am)

    Dan Whitlock: The thin metal of the portion of the tank above the liquid level will fluctuate in temperature with the temperature of the air and can form condensation wich can cause water to be mixed in with the gas causing all kinds of problems.

    It’s a sealed tank.


  78. 78
    Mitch

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:20 am)

    madeinxhina: Haha, you dum people talk about volt you call ev but you all talk about the car uae gas and how far to go on gas. Very stupid car for very dum dum people.  (Quote)

    Learn to read..WE call it an ER-EV…but I wouldn’t expect you to realize that…as its a second language and ER-EV would not work in a translation program…

    CS mode is important to me as my commute is about 70 miles round trip.. I can charge at work on occasion (when I am in) but there are days I need more (calls, site vistis etc. )

    Leaf no good at all for me as I can blow past 100 miles a day no sweat,

    Tesla S would be ok if I can fully charge at night.

    So Volt fills my requirements of EV range limiting my oil use, and extended range capable for my requirements.

    and dumb in English is spelled with a “b” at the end..dumb dumb, other wise you are discussing food


  79. 79
    Jim I

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:24 am)

    What brought out the trolls today????

    And where is Tag???


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    Herm

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:26 am)

    George S. Bower:
    63 “Dave G:
    http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/13/update-chevy-volt-is-meeting-electric-range-and-charge-sustaining-mpg-goals/
    “He clarified that the 50 MPG target is unadjusted, and that the official number will be “released closer to production.””   
    Yes unadjusted is a biggy. Last time I looked, the adjustment was around 14%. So, 50x.86=43 MPG. and 7×43+40=341 range.  

    Yes unadjusted is a biggie.. to explain.. the EPA is still using the original tests from the ’70s to determine mpg ratings.. people complained that their cars did not even come close to this so the EPA “adjusted” the raw numbers down to better match what people were getting.. they have done this twice and each car gets a different magic formula fudge factor. So the raw 50mpg in CS mode perhaps will not be the number that will be advertised officially.

    The Insight and the Prius get different EPA numbers, but in practice both cars get about the same mpg… the EPA cant even account properly for modern start&stop gas saving methods used in cars, the EPA wont be able to handle the genset in a Volt just generating the average power the Volt needs. Your mileage may vary.


  81. 81
    flmark

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:27 am)

    Michael: OT but pretty interesting – for Texans:Dallas News (Business) “NRG plans flat-rate deal for unlimited charges for electric cars“NRG Energy Inc. is about to offer Texans the first all-you-can-eat electric vehicle plan.“The power company, which owns Reliant Energy, will introduce an electric vehicle refueling service early next year. The service will include unlimited charges at home and at charging stations throughout Houston. It will cost around $60 to $80 a month.”http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/industries/energy/stories/DN-elecvehicle_23bus.ART.State.Edition1.1aaad47.html  (Quote)

    CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!

    This price is for convenience- or range anxiety. Do the math. At 10 cents per kwh, this equates to using over 20 kwh per day. An AVERAGE days driving will use 5 kwh (Volt or Leaf). I read this article and reread it. I think they are trying to suck in stupid people who only know what they pay for gas and don’t think about what an electric vehicle’s energy costs are going to be. This price is offensive for what is being delivered.


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    Mitch

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:28 am)

    Jim I: What brought out the trolls today????And where is Tag???  (Quote)

    What brought them out…must have been paid, and where I am its cloudy out so the sunlight ban doesn’t affect them right now…

    and Reginald seems to be out with the sheep again and blaming us for the smell…


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    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:29 am)

    I watched the video and I noticed something… This is a $40,000 car and it does not have those little hydraulic struts to hold the hood open! C’mon GM..! Leave out at least one $50 gizmo on the inside, and add one ‘practical’ feature under the hood. It’s the little things like that which can impress buyers to cough up 40 large. Jeeeezzz!


  84. 84
    madeinxhina

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:29 am)

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    Dave K.

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:33 am)

    Jim I: What brought out the trolls today????

    troll%20avatar.jpg

    =D-Volt


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    WopOnTour

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:43 am)

    JohnK: Orange usually means silicone rubber, which has premium physical characteristics, like flexibility and temperature tollerance.  (Quote)

    No in this case Orange colored cables is part of a GM safety standard (and proposed SAE standard) that identifies potential voltage levels for the technician.
    Orange insulation or conduit would indicate “high voltage”, those GREATER than 60VDC (30VAC RMS) and blue colored cabling indicates “intermediate voltages” between 30-60V DC (15-30VAC RMS).
    HTH
    WopOnTour


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    DonC

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:44 am)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): The Volt is intended to be a real car, with the capability of being used by the non-enthusiast. Fuel tank size and overall range is relevant.  

    I guess though I don’t want it to be a “real car” if by “real car” you mean one powered by an ICE.

    In any event +1 just to cancel out the person who is giving every comment you make a -1.


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    storm

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:49 am)

    JohnK: Orange usually means silicone rubber, which has premium physical characteristics, like flexibility and temperature tollerance.  

    Orange is mandated for the high voltage wiring- partly so first responders will know.


  89. 89
    Zachary Taylor (Jackson)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:52 am)

    DonC:
    I guess though I don’t want it to be a “real car” if by “real car” you mean one powered by an ICE.In any event +1 just to cancel out the person who is giving every comment you make a -1.  

    I don’t mean one powered by an ICE. I mean the Volt, which is real in the sense that real people can buy it and use it with little more penalty than a higher purchase price. It is capable of being operated by Ma and Pa in Poughkeepsie; unlike battery-only vehicles which will require major shifting of lifestyle and habits for most drivers.

    Thanks for the help with voting, but we’re experiencing a Troll storm at the moment (there are at least 5 of them voting so far), so the totes for today won’t actually mean anything. I’m sure to get the negs back, lol.


  90. 90
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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:53 am)

    CorvetteGuy: I watched the video and I noticed something… This is a $40,000 car and it does not have those little hydraulic struts to hold the hood open! C’mon GM..! Leave out at least one $50 gizmo on the inside, and add one ‘practical’ feature under the hood. It’s the little things like that which can impress buyers to cough up 40 large. Jeeeezzz!  (Quote)

    I have no idea if this is the case or not, but…my Tahoe Hybrid has lots of bells and whistles …except if they weighed something. Hence I cannot open my rear hatch window. The engineers used a magnifying glass and modified (or subtracted) a number of features based on their weight contribution. For example, I believe that fancy powered running board was not even an option for the hybrid version. Further investigation might yield the engineers belief that a few added pounds for your desired feature was not worth the hit to mpg. Annoying and maybe absurd, but it may not be a sign of cutting corners. Just a thought.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:59 am)

    Michael: “The power company, which owns Reliant Energy, will introduce an electric vehicle refueling service early next year. The service will include unlimited charges at home and at charging stations throughout Houston. It will cost around $60 to $80 a month.”

    Is it just me or does this seem exhorbitantly high? I mean this is close to the cost of gasoline. A Volt is supposed to cost .80 per day. Maybe this is figuring to be good for a Tesla owner.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:04 pm)

    Nick D: Both of my past 2 cars (Scion XB and Prius) had an 11 gallon gas tank.If i filled the tank promptly when the low fuel light came on the tank would accept 9.1 gallons.If the situation is the same here then of the 9 gallon tank they would make 7 useable before the low fuel indicator giving plenty of time to get gas before you run out.They also stated above that they wanted a range closer to 350 miles…350 / 7 = 50 MPG  

    well analyzed Nick- I think you’ve got the answer

    Nick D: Both of my past 2 cars (Scion XB and Prius) had an 11 gallon gas tank.If i filled the tank promptly when the low fuel light came on the tank would accept 9.1 gallons.If the situation is the same here then of the 9 gallon tank they would make 7 useable before the low fuel indicator giving plenty of time to get gas before you run out.They also stated above that they wanted a range closer to 350 miles…350 / 7 = 50 MPG  

    well analyzed Nick- I think you’ve got the answer


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:09 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: I watched the video and I noticed something… This is a $40,000 car and it does not have those little hydraulic struts to hold the hood open! C’mon GM..! Leave out at least one $50 gizmo on the inside, and add one ‘practical’ feature under the hood. It’s the little things like that which can impress buyers to cough up 40 large. Jeeeezzz!  (Quote)

    CG, at the Detroit auto show the GM rep who was showing the Volt opened the hatch at the request of someone in the crowd. I do not recall if there were hydraulic struts to hold the hatch open, but I can assure you that the hatch stayed open by itself. In fact I took one or two pictures with the hatch open to try to get a good representation of interior space. If it is “missing” struts then they are just one more advancement that allows easier access.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:12 pm)

    No, seriously. I hope the Volt does well. I think it’s probably the finest car to come out of America well, possibly ever. I’m only such a pain because I received no love from my parents and in return I like to dump on things other people enjoy. I think I need to see a therapist.


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    Mitch

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:13 pm)

    madeinxhina: You are dum dum because you are sucker. Sucker for foreign dependence.  (Quote)

    and you drive???


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:13 pm)

    The guy does say it will get you around 300 miles on a full tank…..

    I find it really hard to believe that an engine not connected to the driver, and being run at a few fixed rpm’s (sweet spots) can’t get 40mpg minimum.
    The cruze is gonna get 40mpg highway and its is directly connected to the owners driving style.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:18 pm)

    JohnK:
    Is it just me or does this seem exhorbitantly high?I mean this is close to the cost of gasoline.A Volt is supposed to cost .80 per day.Maybe this is figuring to be good for a Tesla owner.  

    I just thought the fact that they are thinking and planning for electric vehicles is good news. I didn’t “do the math.”


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    JonP.

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:31 pm)

    (click to show comment)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:32 pm)

    Jim I: What brought out the trolls today????And where is Tag???  

    They’re always lurking. Certain topics, like range, always bring them out. PDNFTT

    I’m keeping in touch with Tag, as is Lyle. He has other things to do right now. He’ll be back. ;-)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:34 pm)

    It’s nice to have the topic back on the volt, I for one believe the more options the better I also agree with Corvette guy that whether CS gas mode is 30 miles a gallon or 50 miles a gallon doesn’t make that much difference to the average American. As 80% of Americans drive under 40 miles a day, that means 80% of America that is driving this car will be using 0 gallons of gas a year. If GM wanted to put a 20 gallon tank on the volt so much the better for a range of 1000 miles. If you’re not smart enough to just put 5 gallons in for normal use then you deserve to drive around with extra 200 pounds of fuel in your tank. I for one will be shocked if CS miles per gallon is under 45. In three months the revolution will begin!


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    madeinxhina

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:41 pm)

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    Loboc

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:45 pm)

    Herm: So the raw 50mpg in CS mode perhaps will not be the number that will be advertised officially.

    The ‘official’ numbers are on the sticker. I am thinking that 50mpg won’t be on there anywhere. ‘CS mode’ is a Volt-only thing since there are no other cars like Volt anywhere on the horizon.

    It’ll be something like:

    230mpg city
    90mpg highway
    166mpg combined

    Remember, these are measurements from EPA drive cycles which don’t come anywhere near what a normal driver does. We also have dialog some time back (around the time that the 230 number was thrown out there) that the ‘combined’ mileage will be well north of 100mpg. (What number do you think GM will use in advertising? Probably ‘city’.)

    I firmly believe that the EPA mileage numbers will blow away anything else on the market except maybe LEAF and Tesla. (It’s really funny that LEAF came up with around 360mpg when it doesn’t use any gas at all and never could.)

    Also, the EPA can’t really change the standards at this point to show electricity usage (unless it’s a footnote) because the EPA mileage is used to calculate CAFE. The problem is: how do you throw an EV into the CAFE calculations?

    The feds are way behind on this technology curve. (and others).


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:51 pm)

    JohnK: Is it just me or does this seem exhorbitantly high? I mean this is close to the cost of gasoline

    Not sure about that. Probably still less. On the other hand the local electric utility here will offer a rate of $.07/kWh off peak. That’s over 1000 kWh a month, which at 4 miles/kWh is 4000 miles. That’s a lot of driving.

    On the other hand someone like Dan Petit who drives a ton of miles might find it a good deal and convenient as well.


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    Dave

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (12:54 pm)

    Auto Engineer: BTW, the engine is running on a cycle called Otto cycle, it is not as efficient as the engine on a Prius, which is on Atkinson cycle, the former is for power and the later is for mpg.The Volt MPG is about 35 mpg!!!  

    Yeah, we got that. But, do not underestimate the GM ICE engineering team. This application plays right into what they are best at…..getting better than expected mileage from large displacement engines. The fact that this I4 engine is computer controlled to operate at relatively modest and constant RPM’s plays right into an engineering scenario that allows maximizing fuel consumption at a particular RPM range. This should result in better fuel consumption numbers than if the same engine were employed in a conventional automobile with a standard transmission….or a modern computer controlled automatic. The Chevy Cruze…. with essentially the same engine, is expected to achieve 40 mpg. In the Cruze application, this powerplant must cope with extreme RPM variations….in the Volt, it will not have to….and the cam profiles, injector profiles, and ignition timing, are all tuned accordingly…..taking good advantage of the fact it’s coupled to an alternator….not a bunch of obsolete “gears”.

    BRACE YOURSELF…..the impact the Volt is going to have on the industry will be nothing short of astonishing. MARK MY WORDS!


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    Eric

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:01 pm)

    Did the charge rate for the 110 change? Seems like it use to be 8 hours for 110.

    “GM says it will take four hours to fully charge a Volt from a 220-volt designated charger, which will need to be professionally installed at your house (at an extra cost), or about 10 hours on a standard 20-amp, 110-volt outlet.”


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    WopOnTour

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:05 pm)

    Dave: Yeah, we got that. But, do not underestimate the GM ICE engineering team. This application plays right into what they are best at…..getting better than expected mileage from large displacement engines. The fact that this I4 engine is computer controlled to operate at relatively modest and constant RPM’s plays right into an engineering scenario that allows maximizing fuel consumption at a particular RPM range. This should result in better fuel consumption numbers than if the same engine were employed in a conventional automobile with a standard transmission….or a modern computer controlled automatic. The Chevy Cruze…. with essentially the same engine, is expected to achieve 40 mpg. In the Cruze application, this powerplant must cope with extreme RPM variations….in the Volt, it will not have to….and the cam profiles, injector profiles, and ignition timing, are all tuned accordingly…..taking good advantage of the fact it’s coupled to an alternator….not a bunch of obsolete “gears”. BRACE YOURSELF…..the impact the Volt is going to have on the industry will be nothing short of astonishing. MARK MY WORDS!  (Quote)

    That, and the fact that GM already uses a variant of the Atkinson/Miller cycle in their hybridized ICE calibrations (including the 2-modes) They just choose not to make a lot of “noise” about it.
    Technically it’s a function of the Variable Valve Timing system (and of course the cam grind itself) but GM doesn’t use it as a marketing ploy. Instead it is only briefly mentioned in much of the ICE technical data sheets as having “Late Intake Valve Closing” or LIVC (aka Atkinson/Miller) which is basically an Atkinson’esque “purge” stroke during the majority of the upswept volume of the compression stroke.
    So the Prius is doing nothing that GM isn’t already employing in their high-efficient ICE strategy …
    WOT


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:05 pm)

    JohnK: Orange usually means silicone rubber, which has premium physical characteristics, like flexibility and temperature tollerance.  (Quote)

    I own a Prius, and it has orange wire casings all under the hood. When I bought the car, the mechanic I spoke with made it abundantly clear to me that orange = death by electrocution. The Volt will be a great car, but stay the heck away from the orange wires…


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:11 pm)

    Steve: When the gas guzzling Prius has a 1.8 liter engine? Don’t think so.  (Quote)

    and what is the all electric range of the Prius before its ICE starts…oh yeah…you can get the ICE to start ANYTIME simply by trompingh on the gas…yep…good engineering there too…

    more Kool aid? anyone?


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:11 pm)

    Nick D: Both of my past 2 cars (Scion XB and Prius) had an 11 gallon gas tank.If i filled the tank promptly when the low fuel light came on the tank would accept 9.1 gallons.If the situation is the same here then of the 9 gallon tank they would make 7 useable before the low fuel indicator giving plenty of time to get gas before you run out.They also stated above that they wanted a range closer to 350 miles…350 / 7 = 50 MPG  

    9.1 gallon fill on 11 gallon tank is 17% reserve. 7 gallon fill on 9 gallon tank is 22% reserve.

    9 gallons is way more than I will need normally. And since I’m ‘over 50′ (like way over), I don’t go more than 200-250 miles before stopping anyway.


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    James

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:11 pm)

    “We’ll see” is the new “stay tuned”.

    I’ve never believed Volt would produce 50 mpg in ER mode as has been bantied about. Due to the weight of the car and the rolling resistance, and since the car is near, or not quite as aero as the 2nd gen Prius ( cd varies per report ), I can’t see Volt getting much more than 35mpg even constant RPM settings on the Ecotec range extender. It may look bad when/if Volt in ER mode gets less mileage than a $19,000 Eco Cruze, with it’s 40mpg Hwy rating.

    Next on the agenda – how possible is it GM will offer the EV-2, as I’m now calling it, for lease only?

    RECHARGE!

    James


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    DonC

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:19 pm)

    James: Due to the weight of the car and the rolling resistance, and since the car is near, or not quite as aero as the 2nd gen Prius ( cd varies per report ), I can’t see Volt getting much more than 35mpg even constant RPM settings on the Ecotec range extender.

    My guess was 37.5 MPG but that was before Lyle dug out the number that Lutz unintentionally gave out, which was more like 45-47 MPG. I’d go with this number until there is something more definite.

    FWIW the Volt is more aerodynamic than the Prius. GM has been quite specific about this. But you’re probably right that they are close, and in any event the issue is really whether the advantage of being able to generate average rather than peak power is better or sufficient to offset the disadvantage of the mechanical–>electrical–>mechanical conversions.


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    Tim

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:26 pm)

    Herm: Yes, these are pressurized heavy duty tanks.. and most importantly larger tanks take up more space.. the tank is located right behind the battery, perhaps you want to add a bit more padding for crash protection or something like that.There will be people (probably a very large number, you would be shocked) that will fill up their tanks every 2-3 years.. whats the utility of a 9 gallon tank?.. more of a liability I would think.  (Quote)

    I agree, there will be some who will only fill-up their Volts every 2 – 3 years, and that will be horrible for the car to run that gas. The ensuing damage to the engine will significantly shorten the life of the engine, and a dead engine usually equates a dead car for most (after all, good luck finding a rebuilt Chevy Volt engine anywhere). People like that need to get an EV… those who want a Volt need to buy it with the expectation of a monthly fill-up if they want to keep their engines healthy. After all, if you are buying the car because you need the range of an EREV, then put it to its intended use.
    On a similar note, someone yesterday mentioned that the engine will only cut on once every 2 – 3 months if the gas engine hasn’t been unused so it won’t rot/corrode/whatever. Anyone else who has been a mechanic can confirm for you with absolute certainty that 2 – 3 months is far too long an interval for an engine to go unused. I certainly hope the person who posted the 2 -3 month comment yesterday was horribly mistaken. If not, then it seems as if this boils down to a Volt marketing problem for GM because an engine needs to run hard and hot at least once every two weeks to keep it in good order. The problem lies in that if the engine is used that often and for that long, then the car’s electric credentials begin to wane. I’m sure there will be various bloggers who will now argue that once every 2 – 3 months is an acceptable interval for an engine to lay dormant, but that interval should be, say, for a rare extended trip out of town (for instance) and not a regular occurrence during the life of the car. I have seen way too many senior citizens’ cars that are 5 years old with only a few thousand miles on them, and everytime their cars are absolute junk because their engines were never used enough. Again, before I get my head bitten off, I’m a huge Volt supporter and wish it nothing but the best, but do not buy it under the misguided assumption that “if you drive less than 40 miles roundtrip everyday, you will never need another drop of gas.” That may be true, but if you only use the electric mode and avoid burning gas at all cost, you will go through many more Volts than you had originally anticipated as well…
    The moral of the story: either get an EV if you’re all about being gas-free, or buy a Volt and get a car that gets and EPA estimated (what is it?) 200 miles to the gallon (which is INCREDIBLE!!!)?


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    Futurist

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:32 pm)

    madeinxhina: You already have 50% china product in home.

    What a lot of people don’t understand is America makes more money off these “Made in China” products than the Chinese do. Apple could make the iphone here but we pay Chinese to do it for 10 dollars of labor opposed to 60 in the U.S.. Same applies to a plastic fork at Wal-Mart. It’s good for both Nations. There will be a point long into the future where the Chinese don’t really want to be building plastic forks anymore, they’ll have a little bit of money, more than the 10,000 per person they have now, and so they’ll start their own businesses and have Africans or Indians making their products and taking the majority of profits. That is unless the Chinese economy sputters hardcore for a few years and the people overthrow the communist government.


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    Futurist

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:37 pm)

    Tim: I agree, there will be some who will only fill-up their Volts every 2 – 3 years, and that will be horrible for the car to run that gas. The ensuing damage to the engine will significantly shorten the life of the engine, and a dead engine usually equates a dead car for most (after all, good luck finding a rebuilt Chevy Volt engine anywhere). People like that need to get an EV… those who want a Volt need to buy it with the expectation of a monthly fill-up if they want to keep their engines healthy. After all, if you are buying the car because you need the range of an EREV, then put it to its intended use.
    On a similar note, someone yesterday mentioned that the engine will only cut on once every 2 – 3 months if the gas engine hasn’t been unused so it won’t rot/corrode/whatever. Anyone else who has been a mechanic can confirm for you with absolute certainty that 2 – 3 months is far too long an interval for an engine to go unused. I certainly hope the person who posted the 2 -3 month comment yesterday was horribly mistaken

    I posted that comment, it is what they said. 3 months, but they’ve also said they don’t recommend you filling up more than half way if you’re not using gas often, the gas tank is vacuum sealed and they’ve also said you may need to come in every once in a while and they’ll clean out the gas tank. I heard a GM exec say that, maybe Bob Lutz, that may have been before the vacuum sealed tank idea though. It would be in peoples best interests most likely to have 4 gallons in the tank and use a gallon every 2 weeks i’d suppose.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:42 pm)

    Futurist: I posted that comment, it is what they said. 3 months, but they’ve also said they don’t recommend you filling up more than half way if you’re not using gas often, the gas tank is vacuum sealed and they’ve also said you may need to come in every once in a while and they’ll clean out the gas tank. I heard a GM exec say that, maybe Bob Lutz, that may have been before the vacuum sealed tank idea though. It would be in peoples best interests most likely to have 4 gallons in the tank and use a gallon every 2 weeks i’d suppose.  (Quote)

    I agree, when I get my Volt (hopefully within the year!) I plan to put just a few gallons in it and fill it up every two weeks or so. Based on my daily drive, I expect to use a little over a gallon a week, so 3 gallons, give or take, will be my “fill-up” (I never thought I’d be speaking of a 3 gallon fill-up!).


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:43 pm)

    JohnK: Michigan has a 6% sales tax – not trivial ($2400).

    #16

    Almost 10% in LA County now. Not trivial at all. And it applies before the tax credit, I believe. At least, whenever I’ve bought a car with a rebate and/or a GM card credit, they charge the tax on the full purchase price, and THEN subtract any rebates/credits.


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    flmark

     

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:43 pm)

    Tim: Anyone else who has been a mechanic can confirm for you with absolute certainty that 2 – 3 months is far too long an interval for an engine to go unused.   (Quote)

    Gas, yes…engine, no! Ever drive by a boat yard? Living in FL and having lost a boat in maintenance for two years due to Hurricane Charley, and having the engine manufacturer involved, I am POSITIVE that no special layup requirements are involved if no freezing weather is expected. Batteries may go dead and gas may go stale, but the engine, if designed to do so (and this would fall upon GM), will be just fine. By design, I mean, don’t put in cheap gaskets that can dry out and rot. I would certainly feel better about running any engine under your specified time interval, but do not assume that the engine is doomed. For crying out loud, lawn mowers and snow blowers sit for several months in their respective off seasons and I doubt many people give it much thought.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:45 pm)

    Being that it is the dog days of Summer – and I know readership may be down a bit since, at least here in the NW the golden orb ( I forgot it’s name, a common Washington State malady ) in the sky has just begun to peek out between the gray and sullen skies….. Perhaps since Volt news is very thin indeed – we can do some in-depth discussion about other products on the horizon?

    Lotus unveiled it’s Evora 414E hybrid in Geneva, and it looks as if it has a good chance to be produced.

    http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/2010/03/lotus_evora_414e_hybrid_02.jpg

    Lotus’ operating budget is quite low so it doesn’t have a habit of whipping out wild concept cars as some larger companies do. I think we might see some version of it in production in the not too distant future. 17kwh plug in lithium polymer pack, two rear hub motors and a three cylinder, hybrid-specific range extender – very interesting stuff. Not to mention a body nearly as sexy as Catherine Zeta Jones in her prime!

    http://www.autoweek.com/storyimage/CW/20100225/GENEVA/100229930/Lotus-414E-Hybrid-concept.jpg

    Several other interesting subjects are out there for the picking such as Volkswagen’s big moves to catch up in the Electrification Grand Prix – including it’s signing of Toshiba and rights to it’s SCiB batteries.

    I’m just riffing here, but there’s a lot of things out there more interesting than if the EV-2′s ( Volt ) gas tank is 8.5 or 9 gallons, or if OnStar is going to be mandatory with a Google App for determining which dealer is going to gouge the least.

    RECHARGE!

    James


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:48 pm)

    Noel Park: #16Almost 10% in LA County now. Not trivial at all. And it applies before the tax credit, I believe. At least, whenever I’ve bought a car with a rebate and/or a GM card credit, they charge the tax on the full purchase price, and THEN subtract any rebates/credits.  (Quote)

    I see your 10% and raise it 13% in Ontario (effective Friday…HST)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:51 pm)

    http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32860&page=15

    message #150

    other news.. The base 2011 Hyundai Sonata returns 48mpg when driven at a steady 55mph on the hwy.. this is a $20k car and classified LARGE by the EPA. 46mpg if you use the AC.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:54 pm)

    peanut_farmer_55.jpg

    the peanut farmer had it right after all :)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:55 pm)

    9 gallons works for me. One less thing to speculate about is good.

    Anymore, as I go down the thread, I just automatically give one more “-1″ to anybody who is “off the island”, just to try to help keep them there, LOL.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:56 pm)

    Eco_Turbo: All seems to hinge on how much electric regen helps during highway cruising.  (Quote)

    It really depends on the energy needed to maintain cruising speed. I suppose there might be some regeneration possible during during cruise control and coasting “against the engine” if throttle off has regeneration induced drag. Don’t know if that’s a big or even a significant factor.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (1:56 pm)

    Tim Hart: Thanks, Lyle. If CR had the Volt for an extended test drive they should have been able to get pretty accurate numbers on the MPG in the generator mode. I haven’t seen the article. Any info in that regard?  (Quote)

    There is no doubt people know the MPG in ICE. Because no one is reporting it I am going to assume that GM is insisting that it be kept quiet. That might be a competitive secret, or it might be because it isn’t very good (which is what the evidence currently suggests).

    Lyle himself knows the MPG. Recall the test drive he did where he saw that the journalist test drives around the parking lot were yielding ~16.5 MPG (lest you think that is crazy low, Top Gear did a much higher speed test with the Prius around their track where they got approx. the same, so it is within the realm of possibility). Also note that after the range extender kicks in on Lyle’s drive you can see for a brief moment that Lyle is getting similar to a bit lower MPG. It is too short a time to really calculate a good number. At the end of the test drive Lyle would have just had to have looked down to see the actual MPG he got.

    Lest you think it was because it was an older build, listen the to the GM(?) exec in the back talking about how all they are doing now is tweaking software.

    I know a lot are disappointed with the news yesterday that the Volt might be nearly identical to a plug-in prius with a bigger battery and electric drive (probably because they have spend the past 3 years or so claiming the Volt was so superior). But it seems to me that a direct link is GM’s best hope of actually hitting the 50 MPG.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (2:03 pm)

    flmark: Gas, yes…engine, no! Ever drive by a boat yard? Living in FL and having lost a boat in maintenance for two years due to Hurricane Charley, and having the engine manufacturer involved, I am POSITIVE that no special layup requirements are involved if no freezing weather is expected. Batteries may go dead and gas may go stale, but the engine, if designed to do so (and this would fall upon GM), will be just fine. By design, I mean, don’t put in cheap gaskets that can dry out and rot. I would certainly feel better about running any engine under your specified time interval, but do not assume that the engine is doomed. For crying out loud, lawn mowers and snow blowers sit for several months in their respective off seasons and I doubt many people give it much thought.  (Quote)

    Yes, but a car’s engine is a completely different beast from a lawn mower or a boat. It’s not the filters and hoses; rather, it’s the water vapor that forms in the engine that condenses into water (when cooled) that sits with the oil and rusts the engine from the inside, eventually resulting in the breakdown of major engine components. Of course, this is merely advice… feel free to do with a $30,000 car what you do with a $200 lawn mower… I could always use the work. :)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (2:25 pm)

    I have heard that the entire tax credit for the Volt doesn’t apply because the battery is 8 kilowatts. I heard that the entire 7500 apply’s to a larger battery and that people should only expect closer to 3500 tax credit.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (2:35 pm)

    The battery is 16 kwh. The Volt uses the middle 50% (30% – 80%) of the battery or 8 kwh.
    The full credit applies.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (2:36 pm)

    Eco_Turbo: All seems to hinge on how much electric regen helps during highway cruising.  (Quote)

    Well ideally, for the best mileage, regen won’t be used on the highway. For example if you are buzzing along at 70 mph then have to slow to 40 mph with the brakes for an idiot or a big truck then speed back up to 70, it will always use more energy than if you’d stayed at 70 the whole time (assuming you don’t stay at 40 mph very long of course, with its lower wind resistance). Regen is nice, but it will never be > 100% efficient. Same thing with hills, you generally have to climb a hill (using more energy) to enjoy the coast down the other side. The same distance over flat ground will always use less energy overall.

    As for CR, I tend to ignore anything compiled from user surveys, they are popularity contests more than anything else. But on the other hand, I read CR fairly often at the library back in the early 90s and it was embarrassing seeing the flaws they often found in American cars, and I would hope they used the same standards when they looked for flaws in Japanese cars. These weren’t subjective problems, like “rides rough”, but measurable things like wheels out of alignment, parts missing, parts falling off, etc. I’d like to think that things have improved since the 90s.


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    Steve

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (2:38 pm)

    madeinxhina: Haha, you dum people talk about volt you call ev but you all talk about the car uae gas and how far to go on gas. Very stupid car for very dum dum people.  (Quote)

    Idiot can’t even spell. Should be completely ignored. Don’t even acknowledge presence with a vote.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (2:43 pm)

    Tim:
    Yes, but a car’s engine is a completely different beast from a lawn mower or a boat.It’s not the filters and hoses; rather, it’s the water vapor that forms in the engine that condenses into water (when cooled) that sits with the oil and rusts the engine from the inside, eventually resulting in the breakdown of major engine components.Of course, this is merely advice… feel free to do with a $30,000 car what you do with a $200 lawn mower… I could always use the work.   

    There is some merit to Tim’s concern here.

    My wife’s engine only had 61k miles when it started burning oil (it was also over 10 years old and never garaged). She only drives 5 miles a day when she drives. The car sat for weeks at a time without going anywhere. Very hard on a car. Not only engine, but other parts like tires and batteries. Kwik-Kar couldn’t believe it when I changed the oil every 6 months and it looked new.

    I would at least go over the 40 AER every month just to make the engine run a little. Just don’t plug it in one night would do the trick. I don’t know about the Volt’s preferences for running the ICE just for maintenance (make sure starting, oiling, cooling, gas etc are ok), but, I hope they make it run at least once a month.

    In my wife’s case, a BEV-20 (no ER engine) Volt would be ideal. Heck, a good NEV with a/c would do the trick.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (2:45 pm)

    James: “We’ll see” is the new “stay tuned”.I’ve never believed Volt would produce 50 mpg in ER mode as has been bantied about. Due to the weight of the car and the rolling resistance, and since the car is near, or not quite as aero as the 2nd gen Prius ( cd varies per report ), I can’t see Volt getting much more than 35mpg even constant RPM settings on the Ecotec range extender. It may look bad when/if Volt in ER mode gets less mileage than a $19,000 Eco Cruze, with it’s 40mpg Hwy rating.Next on the agenda – how possible is it GM will offer the EV-2, as I’m now calling it, for lease only?RECHARGE!James  (Quote)

    I recall that GM tested the Volt and the Prius in the same wind tunnel and the Volt won. GM rep. wondered out loud about the number the Volt would get in Toyota’s wind tunnel.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (2:50 pm)

    GXT: I know a lot are disappointed with the news yesterday that the Volt might be nearly identical to a plug-in prius with a bigger battery and electric drive (probably because they have spend the past 3 years or so claiming the Volt was so superior). But it seems to me that a direct link is GM’s best hope of actually hitting the 50 MPG.

    What?? How could a serial hybrid be ‘nearly identical’ to a Prius??

    Volt will get 50mpg MINIMUM. Prius gets 50mpg MAXIMUM. (Combined mileage). There is no comparison. They are totally different designs.


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    Echin McCrotch

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:09 pm)

    (click to show comment)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:13 pm)

    RogerE333: Regen is nice, but … Same thing with hills, you generally have to climb a hill (using more energy) to enjoy the coast down the other side. The same distance over flat ground will always use less energy overall  (Quote)

    Uh Uh. Hills= BETTER mileage with REgeneration. I read this long before I experienced it myself. Florida = flat = about 5 mpg less than NY mileage (with hills) on my Highlander Hybrid. Flat (without stopping) means the energy just sits in the battery- basically battery not contributing much at all. Hill means battery supplements ICE on way up and recharges on way back down (while ICE may even turn OFF)!


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:16 pm)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:21 pm)

    bigcitycat: I have heard that the entire tax credit for the Volt doesn’t apply because the battery is 8 kilowatts. I heard that the entire 7500 apply’s to a larger battery and that people should only expect closer to 3500 tax credit.  (Quote)

    listen to the folks that have been here for years, or look at the facts, not the trolls that can’t spell, read, eat shoe polish or lick windows. (I am not sure what their Qualifications are, just guessin here)

    better yet, go to the section where you can read the engineering specs


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:23 pm)

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:24 pm)

    Echin McCrotch: Be real here people. a 9 gallon polluter is a 9 gallon polluter, GM has always said 340 mile range. 40 is electric. 300 is dirty mode. 300 / 9 = 33.3MPG. Adding more gallons just to be able to go longer distance just proves GM want us all addicted to oil.LAME!!!A CIVIC LX get’s 34mpg for half the price. This aint no “Leapfrog”. Unles GM is trying to jump over their own SUV’s!  (Quote)

    So you’re saying a full time polluter that pollutes more efficiently is better than 40 mile with no polution?

    Go back to licking windows and eating shoe polish…

    (I am not in the mood to suffer idiots today…so I am flaming trolls..sorry for the DNFTT policy violation, but its better than other ventings)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:24 pm)

    Eisemann: I have always said and always believed in one thingConsumer DistortsConsumer Distorts is one of the MOST biased magazines out there. They say they are NON PROFIT but they take heavy donations from companies.There largest Donator is Toyota. They are heavily biased magazines. When I was a kid I worked at a TV repair store and we took apart TV sets and knew what the Chassis looked like and we knew that the GE TV and the RCA were the exact same set with Badge re-engineering.The GE scored the highest in CR tests and the RCA was the lowest. After this I lost respect for CR.Time and Time again CR rates only Toyota cars good. I think they need a Government Audit of their funds from Toyota.  (Quote)

    Excuse me! What link do you have to support these large donations from Toyota- that is ludicrous. Their reporting is probably not perfect, but it is darn close. And they are ballanced and fair- they have, for example, spoken highly of GM’s new car offerings over the last few years, acknowledging their improvment. Whereas a few years ago, CR did NOT recommend buying a hybrid initially, citing it a poor investiment. Oh- and now CR has labeled one of the Toyotas a ‘no buy.’ Hmmm- sure sounds like they are fair to me. I have read CR for decades now, and they have, in the past, lamented the US automakers offereings not being on par with Japanese automakers- they wanted better cars from the US. And this was not just CR who had disparaging comments about US cars, especially in the 80′s and 90′s. I am all for buying American-made goods- but do not be blind to their short-comings, and it took many long years of short-comings to turn many loyal GM buyers (along with Ford and Chrysler) to Japanese models.


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    Future LEAF Driver

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:28 pm)

    Ditto, that’s the sign of a cheap car, not a well finished car, especially at $40,000 plus dealer prep, plus taxes!!! Come-on GM!!!

    BTW, isn’t it weird that there’s all this happy excitement over a 9 gallon GAS tank on a web site dedicated to an ELECTRIC car???

    Why did they get a giant to review the VOLT. It looks bad that his head is touching the roof in the back seat and that his eye-line is over the side window! Strange Ergos going on in the VOLT. Hopefully this guy is way over 6′…otherwise the VOLT looks really small inside…

    GO EV !!!

    CorvetteGuy: I watched the video and I noticed something… This is a $40,000 car and it does not have those little hydraulic struts to hold the hood open! C’mon GM..! Leave out at least one $50 gizmo on the inside, and add one ‘practical’ feature under the hood. It’s the little things like that which can impress buyers to cough up 40 large. Jeeeezzz!  


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:29 pm)

    Tim: Yes, but a car’s engine is a completely different beast from a lawn mower or a boat. It’s not the filters and hoses; rather, it’s the water vapor that forms in the engine that condenses into water (when cooled) that sits with the oil and rusts the engine from the inside, eventually resulting in the breakdown of major engine components. Of course, this is merely advice… feel free to do with a $30,000 car what you do with a $200 lawn mower… I could always use the work.   (Quote)

    Your sarcasm based on value is missing the point. I said ‘boat’, maybe I should have said ‘YACHT’. I will say it again- and you can call the tech people at Mercruiser if you like. If you design an engine right- with the EXPECTATION that it can go months without running, the engine will do just fine. You and the follow on commentator use ordinary old car engines as your examples. If GM didn’t do any modification to this engine, yeah, were probably screwed. Let’s hope that they did, because there will be MANY people who go months without running the ICE on the Volt. And let’s hope that is NOT why they are rolling out so few to begin with (the wait-n-see) kind of thing.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:29 pm)

    Echin McCrotch:
    Volt has no mpg yet so it does not get 50mpg. Volt gets max 0 mpg so far. They’re afraid of giving the mpg. So the dirty pollution mode you all call CS mode is 0.  

    Dude, read the post first. I said ‘will get’ which means I understand that there is no Volt in production yet (and no Prius plug-in either). Sheesh.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:30 pm)

    Futurist: Apple could make the iphone here but we pay Chinese to do it for 10 dollars of labor opposed to 60 in the U.S..

    Which would be fine if the Chinese government didn’t manipulate its currency to protect its exporters. But it does so it’s not.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:36 pm)

    Noel Park: Almost 10% in LA County now. Not trivial at all. And it applies before the tax credit, I believe. At least, whenever I’ve bought a car with a rebate and/or a GM card credit, they charge the tax on the full purchase price, and THEN subtract any rebates/credits.

    Another reason to lease. With a lease the rebate comes off the top and you’re just paying tax on the dollar amount used each month — the difference between the purchase price (after rebate) and the buy out price at the end of the lease.


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    Echin McCrotch

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:37 pm)

    Future LEAF Driver: BTW, isn’t it weird that there’s all this happy excitement over a 9 gallon GAS tank on a web site dedicated to an ELECTRIC car???

    HA!
    You beat me to it!
    Damn….


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:37 pm)

    Loboc: Volt will get 50mpg MINIMUM. Prius gets 50mpg MAXIMUM.

    My real-world lifetime average as of 21,573 miles, which includes a harsh Minnesota winter and use of 10% ethanol year-round, is 50.3 MPG. A less hostile climate with pure gas would clearly deliver higher MPG. So the claim about Prius is just plain not true, especially if a plug is added.

    As for Volt, show me your data. There has been nothing so far to support that claim.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:44 pm)

    madeinxhina: You are stupid person. Ford fusion already beat dum dum volt range. Do reseaech stupid person.

    lol, there’s even a banner at the top of this site that says the Fusion gets 700 miles on a full tank. DUH!


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    Dave K.

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:48 pm)

    Future LEAF Driver: BTW, isn’t it weird that there’s all this happy excitement over a 9 gallon GAS tank on a web site dedicated to an ELECTRIC car???

    Think of the 9 gallon liquid fuel tank as insurance to return home. May never need it. But a good thing to have included in the benefits of Volt ownership. Extended range combined with intuitive OnStar assistance is reassuring.

    =D-Volt


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:50 pm)

    flmark: call the tech people at Mercruiser if you like. If you design an engine right- with the EXPECTATION that it can go months without running, the engine will do just fine.

    Guys, you are saying the same thing only backwards. Marine engines are totally different than automotive engines which are totally different than small air-cooled engines. I’ve worked on all of them.

    If you let an automotive engine (Which the Volt engine is based on. It’s not out of a boat.) sit around for months without starting it, then, there are going to be issues with cylinder scoring, bearing loss, and other oiling problems as well as corrosion problems.

    Yeah, GM might have beefed up the oiling by using an electric oil pump and done some other changes. But, I doubt that they went that far for an engine that will only see 15k miles (equivalent) in 150k actual miles.

    Starting the engine periodically (like every month) and running it up to operating temperature is the simplest (and cheapest) way to keep it fresh and running strong. This is why stationary generators start up every week to ‘exercise’ themselves.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:52 pm)

    Loboc: Dude, read the post first. I said ‘will get’ which means I understand that there is no Volt in production yet (and no Prius plug-in either). Sheesh.  (Quote)

    Loboc, did you get the post that gave the remedy to get rid of any poster who uses teenaged potty humor in their screenname and posts sophomoric, inane comments to get your ire up?

    To review – one must not give -1s or call names like “troll”. One only needs to act as if that particular individual is invisable, like their post does not exist. That is how to get rid of people with low self esteems that provoke responses such as yours from normal, logical people who are regulars here or just interested in an intelligent site discussing issues with other intelligent posters.

    Next time, don’t take the bait, my friend – just remember —– person comes in here to provoke debate over stupid comments – person comes in with screenname citing some kind of dirty humor…..please…please, just ignore them. Otherwise they hijack the site – it goes downhill as people respond, argue and rate these people who are seeking to disrupt due to their low self image – or thier need for any kind of attention. If we ignore them, they disappear and we win. Trust me. Be patient. It works.

    Peace,

    RECHARGE!

    James

    P.S. I think the Etchin My Crotch screenname says it all


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:53 pm)

    flmark: Hills= BETTER mileage with REgeneration.

    Only if regen were 100% efficient. It’s not even close.

    You’re confusing energy use with a “pulse and glide” technique which allows you to get better mpg than if you just maintained a steady speed. But it only gives you better mileage because the drive train in an ICE vehicle is so inefficient — and you have to freewheel as well since the better mileage is really attributable to turning the ICE off during the glide phase. Keep the engine on during the glide phase and you’ll get lower mpg.

    One reason why I was disappointed that Volt won’t allow you to freewheel.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:54 pm)

    Echin McCrotch: lol, ther’es even a banner at the top of this site that says the Fusion gets 700 miles on a full tank. DUH!

    You guys just don’t get it. You’ll never get it. You don’t have the mental capacity to get it.

    The VOLT is not about maximum miles per tank of gas. It’s about using American-made electricity the majority of the time. I’m getting a VOLT for my wife who drives 10 miles each way to and from work. On her days off when she’s out shopping or whatever, maybe she drives 40 miles… 60 miles tops in one day. So, Monday through Friday… NO GAS. Just plug-in each night. On the weekends… Maybe she will use 1 gallon of gas.

    ‘Nuff said.


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    Future LEAF Driver

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (3:59 pm)

    The VOLT or EV-2 for lease?? Then label the game-changer car to GAME-OVER car!!! All that will be left is to wonder when they’ll start crushing them, LOL. Never going to happen!!

    GO EV !!!

    James: “We’ll see” is the new “stay tuned”.I’ve never believed Volt would produce 50 mpg in ER mode as has been bantied about. Due to the weight of the car and the rolling resistance, and since the car is near, or not quite as aero as the 2nd gen Prius ( cd varies per report ), I can’t see Volt getting much more than 35mpg even constant RPM settings on the Ecotec range extender. It may look bad when/if Volt in ER mode gets less mileage than a $19,000 Eco Cruze, with it’s 40mpg Hwy rating.Next on the agenda – how possible is it GM will offer the EV-2, as I’m now calling it, for lease only?RECHARGE!James  


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    MetrologyFirst

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:06 pm)

    Don’t you kids ever get tired of the trash talk? What exactly is the point of all this drivel?

    Believe me, you are convincing no one of anything. Just providing the regulars here with some comedy. But you are being annoying.

    Is that it? Are you spending your time here trying to annoy us? You have nothing better to do but that?? I feel sorry for you. Maybe you should get a job.

    Can’t wait till summer’s over and you have to go back to class….


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:11 pm)

    Future LEAF Driver: Why did they get a giant to review the VOLT. It looks bad that his head is touching the roof in the back seat and that his eye-line is over the side window! Strange Ergos going on in the VOLT. Hopefully this guy is way over 6′…otherwise the VOLT looks really small inside…

    That’s a funny one!

    Should have gotten Goshn to do it. He makes the Leaf look like a school bus when he stands beside it….

    GM apparently doesn’t need to play the games that Nissan plays with all the visual tricks to make their stuff look bigger than it is.

    Wait until the Volt and Leaf are out on the road together. Won’t be able to hide behind the tricks anymore.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:13 pm)

    My Altima Hybrid does over 500 Miles a tank full. So do all Hybrids and in the General public’s mind this will be a hybrid. So a bigger tank probably makes sense.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:13 pm)

    john1701a:
    My real-world lifetime average as of 21,573 miles, which includes a harsh Minnesota winter and use of 10% ethanol year-round, is 50.3 MPG.A less hostile climate with pure gas would clearly deliver higher MPG.So the claim about Prius is just plain not true, especially if a plug is added.As for Volt, show me your data.There has been nothing so far to support that claim.  

    John, as usual, you are asking for data that doesn’t exist. READ THE POST first. I accept the fact that Volt is not in production yet. Neither is plug-in Prius. Do you? Are you actually tied in to reality some way?

    Plug-in Prius will have 12miles AER.
    Volt will have 40miles AER.

    In most cases (unless you drive your Prius less than 12 miles and less than 50mph) the Volt will out perform Prius’ MPG. In the narrow example just given, Volt will be equal. (both will use zero gasoline/E10.)

    As YMMV applies, your real world data is irrelevant to a discussion about future products.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:18 pm)

    Sorry McCrotch, but really isn’t it weird??? I guess GM’s really trying to make happy those 10% of the population that goes over 100 miles a day???

    100 mile EV = 90% of the people
    40 mile EV & gas engine = 10% of the people (Now I understand the limit of 8,000 for 2011)

    GO EV!!!

    Echin McCrotch:
    HA!
    You beat me to it!
    Damn….  


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:27 pm)

    James: To review – one must not give -1s or call names like “troll”. One only needs to act as if that particular individual is invisable, like their post does not exist.

    I guess that includes john1701a, yes? Sorry, I just ran out of things to do and felt like some inane (or insane might be a better description) banter this afternoon.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:27 pm)

    So does Nissan playing tricks imply that the reviewer for the VOLT was 6’5″?? What’s your point?? My point was that the room inside the VOLT looks cramped? Would anyone who’s been in the VOLT like to comment?

    GO EV!!!

    MetrologyFirst:
    That’s a funny one!Should have gotten Goshn to do it. He makes the Leaf look like a school bus when he stands beside it….GM apparently doesn’t need to play the games that Nissan plays with all the visual tricks to make their stuff look bigger than it is.Wait until the Volt and Leaf are out on the road together. Won’t be able to hide behind the tricks anymore.  


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:30 pm)

    Future LEAF Driver: Sorry McCrotch, but really isn’t it weird??? I guess GM’s really trying to make happy those 10% of the population that goes over 100 miles a day???
    100 mile EV = 90% of the people
    40 mile EV & gas engine = 10% of the people (Now I understand the limit of 8,000 for 2011)

    Yes.
    Thanks for the breakdown of the actual target audience. It’s semms to be a better perspective on why the numbers are in the “Niche” category. That is good info.


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    Stat in the Hat

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:33 pm)

    Jim I: What brought out the trolls today????And where is Tag???  (Quote)

    When they sense we are winning they come out to put us down with words. This is a sure sign the Chevy Volt is a winner. We have them shaking in their boots!


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    Giddy for TSLA

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:38 pm)

    It’s time to get rich tomorrow everybody. Break that piggy bank now !

    Elon Musk’s famous company, TESLA (TSLA) will be going public tomorrow. Expect to be worth $1.5 BILLION after Tuesday.

    We all gonna be rich fellas. I love America.

    This is a great great company with the most visionary automotive leader of this century at the helm.

    You still have a few hours left to reap the rewards and invest yourself. Don’t hesitate on this once in a lifetime opportunity.

    We all gonna be rich starting Tuesday.

    Elon Musk will finally be rewarded for all his tireless work bringing Tesla to a viable corporation and the world’s undisputed leader in EV technology.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:43 pm)

    Future LEAF Driver: So does Nissan playing tricks imply that the reviewer for the VOLT was 6′5″?? What’s your point?? My point was that the room inside the VOLT looks cramped? Would anyone who’s been in the VOLT like to comment?GO EV!!!
      

    Several posters here have driven a Volt, and have had nothing but praise for its interior space. Not cramped at all.

    How many people here have driven a Leaf to report on its interior size? Anyone ?? ….

    What’s YOUR point, Leaf disciple? You created the issue for all of us to enjoy…


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (4:48 pm)

    Oh yes. You are right. I refresh and it is now there to see.

    Echin McCrotch:
    lol, there’s even a banner at the top of this site that says the Fusion gets 700 miles on a full tank. DUH!  


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (5:08 pm)

    So how do YOU explain the cramped look in the rear seating area? Oh that’s right you can’t, since you haven’t been in one. So, I’ll await for an informative response on that issue…

    Check the internet for reports on the LEAF, there’s more than a half dozen to read… ;-)

    Leaf disciple? No, you have that wrong, it’s EV lover!!!! LOL…If GM had committed to Lyle’s list (I’m 8,700 something on his WANT list) and picked WA state as a rollout state, then I’d be all for it. But GM decided limited rollout, and Nissan said otherwise. I would have gone with Ford, Tesla, etc. – whoever made a ROOMY 5 seat EV with 100 mile range with confirmed price!!! Off to see Static’s site…

    Which should ALSO be obvious by my sign off comment….wait for it…..here it is…..

    GO EV !!!

    MetrologyFirst:
    Several posters here have driven a Volt, and have had nothing but praise for its interior space. Not cramped at all.How many people here have driven a Leaf to report on its interior size? Anyone ?? ….What’s YOUR point, Leaf disciple? You created the issue for all of us to enjoy…  


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (5:10 pm)

    DonC: Only if regen were 100% efficient. It’s not even close. You’re confusing energy use with a “pulse and glide” technique which allows you to get better mpg than if you just maintained a steady speed. But it only gives you better mileage because the drive train in an ICE vehicle is so inefficient — and you have to freewheel as well since the better mileage is really attributable to turning the ICE off during the glide phase. Keep the engine on during the glide phase and you’ll get lower mpg.One reason why I was disappointed that Volt won’t allow you to freewheel.  (Quote)

    I am not confusing anything. I have real world experience that backs up what I am saying. My Highlander and Tahoe Hybrids are each used in both NY and FL homes. I get 4-5 mpg better in NY with the Highlander Hybrid (already mentioned) and about 2 mpg with the Tahoe. On a straight, level surface, your hybrid system does NOTHING if no starts and stops are involved. That is regenerative technology- there is nothing to regenerate with no stops and no hills. I did state that going down the hill the engine can turn OFF. Well, if the engine is off and the potential energy of the hill is recharging the battery while it is OFF, you win. I could belabor this issue with discussion from my Thermodynamics textbooks, but why bother? Here is an even simpler concept.

    If you descend a hill where braking is required, where does that energy go? In an ordinary vehicle, you simply increase the entropy of the universe by dissipating your kinetic energy as heat. In a vehicle with regenerative braking, the energy went into the battery and it helps you up the next hill. The point here is to compare regenerative technology with the lack of it. I have regenerative technology in my hybrids and will have it in my Volt. I note that I do better in hills than on flat surfaces. I try to give a couple of (simple) reasons why. Don’t overanalyze this. Since I note that all I did was experience what I had previously read, just deal with it and move on. Or, after you get your Volt, you can drive all over the country and compare your AERs.

    BTW, don’t leave the Cruise Control on going up a hill. You can’t beat Newton (F=MA). I agree that if you force the car to maintain constant speed, regardless of terrain, you will ultimately lose. Maybe that is what you were looking for? Driving smart in any vehicle saves gas, but having regenerative technology along for the ride saves even more. I want my Volt.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (5:41 pm)

    Consumer Reports is killing us, KILLING US. We’ve been working on GM for 3 years to bring the price below $29,999 after rebate, and then CR blows it in one report.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (5:46 pm)

    DonC: Another reason to lease. With a lease the rebate comes off the top and you’re just paying tax on the dollar amount used each month — the difference between the purchase price (after rebate) and the buy out price at the end of the lease.  (Quote)

    Don’t you pay tax on the interest amount too with a lease?


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (5:50 pm)

    So what credentials does this person have? CU is the organization that does not compensate for the number of cars on the road when giving advice… that makes their opinion worthless.
    ie: In their magazine.. a Chevy with 10 problems and 1million cars on the road is twice as bad as a Honda with 5 problems and 10 thousand cars on the road.

    CU is not a creditable source of automobile statistics.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (5:52 pm)

    Man, I hope Consumer Reports gives a great review of the Volt when it comes out in November. If GM prices the Volt at around $27,000 (after federal rebate) that will be awesome. Hopefully, a bunch of states will have big rebates too.

    GM should be working hard with all the states to get as many advantages for the Volt like HOV lane access, free charging, free parking, no vehicle taxes for the Volt, etc. In the next 10 years, America needs to make sure that the Volt gets the “red carpet treatment” and has UNFAIR advantages over all the IC engine cars out there. That will go a long way towards helping America get weaned off of our addiction to oil.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (5:59 pm)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): Will the Volt keep running totals of miles traveled all electric separately from miles traveled in charge-sustain mode, or only total miles? Calculating true CS-mode mpg could prove difficult, unless one starts out with a pack at 30% SOC on a road trip.  

    So, I leave home one day, planning to run a series of errands around town, and expect to travel about 20 miles. The battery is at 35% state of charge when I start, and for argument’s sake let’s assume the ICE doesn’t kick in until it gets down to 30%, and I happen to go 5 miles during that time. Now the ICE starts up and, again as a hypothesis, let’s assume it runs for 5 miles, and brings the battery back up to 35% during that time. The same thing happens for the second half of my time on the road.

    Question 1: How many miles did I drive in CS mode?

    Question 2: I drop off the groceries and go pick up my daughter at school – 4 miles round trip, and all with the ICE off since I again started at 35% charge. Was I driving in CS mode, or not?

    I know, some people will question my assumptions, since they may assume the ICE is always on once you exceed the 40 mile (or so) electric range. I don’t think that is true. Test drivers have told us it cycles on and off. Whether it cycles in 5 mile intervals or 1 mile intervals or 500 feet intervals is really beside the point. If it cycles, how are CS mode miles counted?


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (6:24 pm)

    Itching4it: … again as a hypothesis

    A hypothetical question will only get a hypothetical answer.

    Try it with your Volt in a couple months and get back to us.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (6:28 pm)

    flmark: I am not confusing anything.

    OK. You’re not confusing things you’re just not understanding things. I accept the results you’re reporting. But what you’re missing is that you’d get a similar result with ICE vehicles which are NOT hybrids (just not as good). The key is that you’re accelerating (pulsing) at a speed at which the engine is relatively efficient and then turning the engine off during gliding. That’s it. That’s all there is to it. It has nothing to do with regen. It will also only work at some speeds. Try the pulse phase going from 80 mph to 90 mph and see what happens.

    You can’t recapture the energy needed to accelerate or climb a hill because regen requires mechanical–>electrical–>chemical conversions which are considerably less than 50% efficient (not to mention that the out trip isn’t 100% efficient either).


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (6:29 pm)

    koz: Consumer Reports is killing us, KILLING US. We’ve been working on GM for 3 years to bring the price below $29,999 after rebate, and then CR blows it in one report.

    Word of mouth will be the main fuel for Volt sales. Nuetral publications like Motor Trend have been very good at providing upbeat reviews and forecasts on the early Volt cars.

    BTW:Last news I saw from GM prices the Volt under $40k. Still watching for a final number for the first run of 8000 cars.

    =D-Volt


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (6:30 pm)

    CorvetteGuy: You guys just don’t get it. You’ll never get it. You don’t have the mental capacity to get it.The VOLT is not about maximum miles per tank of gas. It’s about using American-made electricity the majority of the time. I’m getting a VOLT for my wife who drives 10 miles each way to and from work. On her days off when she’s out shopping or whatever, maybe she drives 40 miles… 60 miles tops in one day. So, Monday through Friday… NO GAS. Just plug-in each night. On the weekends… Maybe she will use 1 gallon of gas.‘Nuff said.  (Quote)

    Still using gas maybe isn’t as green as using no gas, but an order magnitude or more potential reduction in consumption isn’t trivial. Guess some just don’t get it.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (6:30 pm)

    koz: Don’t you pay tax on the interest amount too with a lease?

    Yes. But you’ll save far more not paying sales tax on the rebated amount than you will pay by having the sales tax assessed on the finance charges (assuming a reasonable cost of money).


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (6:55 pm)

    [Commenting on sales tax]

    Noel Park:
    #16Almost 10% in LA County now.Not trivial at all.And it applies before the tax credit, I believe.  

    No doubt whatsoever about that! You buy the car and pay Nissan the full price + tax & license (which Nissan forwards to your state). Then you wait until after Jan 1 (could be nearly a year later) and scurry around as quickly as possible to get your income tax forms filed so you can get the $7500 tax credit from the IRS.

    Unless you lease, of course.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:24 pm)

    Loboc:
    A hypothetical question will only get a hypothetical answer.Try it with your Volt in a couple months and get back to us.  

    On Aug 28? If only!!

    My point, of course, was not hypothetical. I was simply trying to say that separating CS miles from AE miles is not as straightforward as it might seem.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (7:44 pm)

    69 Zachory Taylor: The Volt’s fuel system is almost unique in having a thick-walled, pressurized fuel tank; precisely to deal with the problems of keeping gas on-board, unused for long periods. There would be little opportunity for water vapor to enter the tank, and the thicker walls would be less susceptible to the temperature fluctuations you mention.

    77 loboc: It’s a sealed tank.

    It is a pressurized tank, but if liquid is to flow out, something must take it’s place. What is it pressuized with? Unless there is a supply of dry gas on board I would assume it is pressureized with air, and unless there is an on board air dryer it will have water vapor in it. It may have quite a bit of water vapor depending on what part of the country you live in. Even with the thicker walls of the tank when fresh gas is added it probably will be of a different temperature than the tank and the gas already in the tank which can cause the water vapor to condense in the tank. It would still be better to keep the tank full and use gas stabilizer to preserve the gas for long periods.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:16 pm)

    No gas struts, the hood is held up by a prop-rod.

    Go back and watch the video again. After the hood is opened and the camera pans across the engine compartment, the hood prop-rod is laying right across the front of the engine compartment.

    Also in the picture at the beginning of this story.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (8:43 pm)

    Auto Engineer:
    The MPG during CS mode is not as high as you might expected, it will be about 35 mpg. Just wait and see!!! The low number is the reason why GM still kept it as a secret!!!

    35 mpg at 3800 lbs is amazing and unprecedented.

    Show me proof otherwise.

    (nevermind that this is an electric car!)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:09 pm)

    Jim in PA: This Consumer Reports review is like listening to your b*tchy aunt at Thanksgiving dinner dishing out back-handed compliments.“The Volt handling actually isn’t THAT bad….”Well gee, was it supposed to be?
    “And the acceleration is ACTUALLY fairly good…”As opposed to your preconceptions, you mean?
    “And the car SURPRISINGLY didn’t remind me of stepping in dog crap!”OK, so I made that last one up, but you get the idea.  

    Consumer Reports sucks!


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:15 pm)

    WOW, the highlight of this product is the size of the “Gas Tank”?!?
    Any hopes of eliminating dependence is out the door. Gas used by design for this EREV/EV? This will not end dependence, this thing should be called “EoDEV” (Extend oil Dependence Electric Vehicle).

    Considering the BEST advertising point is to eliminate “Range Anxiety” all done by keeping dependent on foreign products from the sand lands. What a joke, US tax payer dollars all to keep us dependent on oil.

    Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil.

    Or better…

    “EoDEV” (Extend oil Dependence Electric Vehicle)

    Yup, that’s the TRUTH of the Volt.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:22 pm)

    Dan Whitlock:
    69 Zachory Taylor: The Volt’s fuel system is almost unique in having a thick-walled, pressurized fuel tank; precisely to deal with the problems of keeping gas on-board, unused for long periods. There would be little opportunity for water vapor to enter the tank, and the thicker walls would be less susceptible to the temperature fluctuations you mention.
    77 loboc: It’s a sealed tank.
    It is a pressurized tank, but if liquid is to flow out, something must take it’s place. What is it pressuized with? Unless there is a supply of dry gas on board I would assume it is pressureized with air, and unless there is an on board air dryer it will have water vapor in it. It may have quite a bit of water vapor depending on what part of the country you live in. Even with the thicker walls of the tank when fresh gas is added it probably will be of a different temperature than the tank and the gas already in the tank which can cause the water vapor to condense in the tank. It would still be better to keep the tank full and use gas stabilizer to preserve the gas for long periods.

    A bladder would make sense.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:26 pm)

    Tim:
    I own a Prius, and it has orange wire casings all under the hood.When I bought the car, the mechanic I spoke with made it abundantly clear to me that orange = death by electrocution.The Volt will be a great car, but stay the heck away from the orange wires…  

    So I guess peeing on the orange cables would be ill advised?


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:33 pm)

    WOW…. I am amazed at all the uproar over the possibility that the car will only get 35mpg in CS mode. I think everyone is forgetting what this car is all about. It is about using it on a daily basis like an electric car. 70% of the time on average. So what if the other 30% is 35 mpg. For the type/size 35 mpg is acceptable. And yes I do want range over 300 miles. On weekend I go biking or fishing or skiing and need to drive about 300 miles one way. I don’t want to be stopping every 100 miles because I have a 3 gallon tank. Battery technology will get better, engine/generator technology will get better and in 5 years the I can see the EV mode being 70 miles and the CS mode 40 mpg. It will get better just like our computers did over the last 20 years. I am sure there are a few posts that are similar to mine, but I must have missed them. It’s time to grow up people and put on your common sense hats. ;-)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (9:48 pm)

    Thanks Lyle, several bits of news, at least for me, in the article. 9 gallons is great, I had concluded at least 8 was needed, and Chevy has made my day. I think the special tank to give long life to the gas had been mentioned, but the tank being pressurized escaped my notice. And lastly the mention that the Volt uses “about half” of the 16 kwh capacity at least appears to open the door to enlarging the usable amount of energy. I was hoping for 8.5 to 10 and and this tid bit at least does not rain on my hope.

    If it is a nominal 9 gallon tank, with 8 gallons usable before the “red” you need gas warning light comes on, and it gets 45 MPG in CS mode, then its non-battery depleting range would be 360 miles. So I could drive to Phoenix without having to stop for gas! The Volt is shaping up to be a perfect car for me, and about 51,000 others!.

    Go Volt, floor it GM.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:03 pm)

    Loboc: Starting the engine periodically (like every month) and running it up to operating temperature is the simplest (and cheapest) way to keep it fresh and running strong. This is why stationary generators start up every week to ‘exercise’ themselves.  

    Some months ago it was reported that the Volt would automatically do exactly that: start the engine, warm it up, use some gasoline, do some diagnostics and shut it down if it was not otherwise run in the course of daily operations. And it’ll only do that while underway, not while in your garage or at a Walmart parking lot.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:15 pm)

    Itching4it: So, I leave home one day, planning to run a series of errands around town, and expect to travel about 20 miles. The battery is at 35% state of charge when I start, and for argument’s sake let’s assume the ICE doesn’t kick in until it gets down to 30%, and I happen to go 5 miles during that time. Now the ICE starts up and, again as a hypothesis, let’s assume it runs for 5 miles, and brings the battery back up to 35% during that time. The same thing happens for the second half of my time on the road.
    Question 1: How many miles did I drive in CS mode?
    Question 2: I drop off the groceries and go pick up my daughter at school – 4 miles round trip, and all with the ICE off since I again started at 35% charge. Was I driving in CS mode, or not?
    I know, some people will question my assumptions, since they may assume the ICE is always on once you exceed the 40 mile (or so) electric range. I don’t think that is true. Test drivers have told us it cycles on and off. Whether it cycles in 5 mile intervals or 1 mile intervals or 500 feet intervals is really beside the point. If it cycles, how are CS mode miles counted?

    Data is not a problem. Drive a GM truck for a while, you’ll see.


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    Ricardo Voltardo

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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:31 pm)

    (click to show comment)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:37 pm)

    Yes, this is more evidence that the CSM will be far less than many here hope. Of course many here don’t actually think about efficiency of systems so I guess that is the reason.

    I have stated here before that the car will get around 30 mpg at 70 mph on the highway. Many have called me crazy but as you are starting to see, that is going to be the case.

    This is NOT a bad thing that should make you run home to mom. It’s a natural result of the drivetrain choices (going pure serial).

    Again, if you drive a lot of highway miles (you need to stop doing that, or nature will force most of you anyway) then get a very small and aerodynamic diesel car like a VW golf.

    You can not match the mechanical efficiency of the ICE to wheels that the VW will give you at highway speeds with Voltec. It’s just physics. It is silly to me that many here can’t accept this. It’s not like I’m saying your football team is worse. It’s just how systems work. Period.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:41 pm)

    By the way, what is 300 miles – 40 miles / 9 gallons?

    29 mpg…


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:47 pm)

    Mitch: So you’re saying a full time polluter that pollutes more efficiently is better than 40 mile with no polution?

    Only Niche groups will be able to get this car. So go burn you’re petroleum. This car is no EV just a plain “Hybrid” thats still uses gas so you have no range issues. GM has all fooled thinking “Green”. Then suddenly you are back to support the countries you wish to be free from. Makes no sense. Only 40 miles, still no price and the Leaf will be affordable and go 100 miles. If you want off of oil then buy the Leaf or a real EV and stop pretending you will be green. Because your not with the Volt. You are the worst green ever. I find it strange how you are so proud to get off of oil yet so proud to be able to drive burning it.
    Proud to be able to burn oil from an American company. Makes you all cheap and backstabbing.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (10:52 pm)

    Ricardo Voltardo: Only Niche groups will be able to get this car. So go burn you’re petroleum. This car is no EV just a plain “Hybrid” thats still uses gas so you have no range issues. GM has all fooled thinking “Green”. Then suddenly you are back to support the countries you wish to be free from. Makes no sense. Only 40 miles, still no price and the Leaf will be affordable and go 100 miles. If you want off of oil then buy the Leaf or a real EV and stop pretending you will be green. Because your not with the Volt. You are the worst green ever. I find it strange how you are so proud to get off of oil yet so proud to be able to drive burning it.
    Proud to be able to burn oil from an American company. Makes you all cheap and backstabbing.

    Or you can buy a Leaf and go nowhere.

    You are so boring.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:04 pm)

    crew: Or you can buy a Leaf and go nowhere.

    You go 100 miles and never use gas. Volt, you go 100 miles you burn gas and is only 40% EV. Any longer and your % is less and less and that’s something to be proud of?
    Keep your stupid dependence and quit screaming get off petroleum.
    Still same old internal combustion engine no new anything. Wasting, wasting wasting. Same boring song.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:08 pm)

    Loboc: I accept the fact that Volt is not in production yet.

    Yet, you make this claim anyway: “Volt will get 50mpg MINIMUM.

    How can you make that claim? The facts just don’t add up.

    What information did you draw that conclusion with?


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:08 pm)

    JEC: So I guess peeing on the orange cables would be ill advised?  (Quote)

    Ha, unless you’re not opposed to a burning sensation when you pee (I’ll let your imagination run wild with that one…)!


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:11 pm)

    Ricardo Voltardo: You go 100 miles and never use gas. Volt, you go 100 miles you burn gas and is only 40% EV. Any longer and your % is less and less and that’s something to be proud of?
    Keep your stupid dependence and quit screaming get off petroleum.
    Still same old internal combustion engine no new anything. Wasting, wasting wasting. Same boring song.

    You really need to get out more.
    35 miles out and 35 miles back, boy, that’s progress, huh.
    Get real.
    Attacking the personal transportation milestone that is the Volt is kid stuff.
    Fix the grid first. Make commercial petroleum obsolete second. Then make BEV transportation significant.


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:14 pm)

    I think the tax rebates and any rebates for that matter should be restricted to only what is the “useable” battery capacity not just the size of the pack. This ensures that poor inefficient cars like the Volt don’t benefit. Why waste tax funds on helping everyone carry around 50% more battery capacity but not use the full available depth. It’s a waste of energy lugging around 50% more storage dead weight you can’t use.
    Only offer the rebate to cars that use either the 70% to 80% depth of discharge for the entire pack.

    Volt = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle)


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:19 pm)

    Tim: Ha, unless you’re not opposed to a burning sensation when you pee (I’ll let your imagination run wild with that one…)!

    Oh My, a naughty one!!!!
    lol….


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    Jun 28th, 2010 (11:43 pm)

    Michael:
    They’re always lurking.Certain topics, like range, always bring them out.PDNFTTI’m keeping in touch with Tag, as is Lyle.He has other things to do right now.He’ll be back.   

    ===============================

    Michael:

    The next time you talk to Tag, tell him I said hi!

    :-)


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (12:00 am)

    Ricardo Voltardo: But what is the price? Why the big secret on the MPG? Don’t they have a clue yet? A big company and they still are not sure?
    The car looks very small for passengers in the back. No way 4 travelers can take long travel with no space for baggage. Looks very uncomfortable too.
    What’s the price? They already announced the curze did they not?
    GM is just wasting money.
    BASURA PENDEJO!!!  

    If this fine car does not fit your and a few of your friends needs ……
    then the solution for you and your friends is very simple… DO NOT BUY this car.

    There are plenty of others that have done the research about the VOLT and know it is for us. WE WILL BUY IT….. :+}


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (1:21 am)

    “Successful product draw many troll.” ancient chine proverb


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (1:34 am)

    Giddy for TSLA: Elon Musk will finally be rewarded for all his tireless work bringing Tesla to a viable corporation and the world’s undisputed leader in EV technology.  

    Elon needs extra income to cover the hand outs his ex-wife is demanding.

    Tesla and GM’s VOLT program are leading the world in the electrification of transportation. Thanks to all the dedicated people on both development teams. You have done the planet a great service!


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (1:47 am)

    DonC: If this is true then how do you explain that the CR completely missed the problems at Toyota? These problems were so severe that the insurance industry saw a spike in deaths and injuries. Did the CR numbers reflect this? Nope, the CR numbers didn’t budge.

    Now that the problems have been well publicized we’ll see what happens.

    Back in 2007 CR very publicly started sounding alarms about the decline they were witnessing in Toyota’s reliability. From the anecdotal evidence I was hearing, it seems like they once again hit it bang on. Not sure how it jives with the theory that CR readers reinforce each others’ beliefs or that CR creates positive bias for Toyota.

    As for the sticky accelerator issue, the jury is still out on it. A reasonable person will remember what happened to Audi and take the Toyota situation with more than a grain of salt. They will next ask why these unintended acceleration issues seem to happen more frequently to seniors (perhaps they give off more electromagnetic radiation?) and why they seem to happen IN SPITE of the fact that the brakes on these cars would be strong enough to stop them if they were applied.

    “A 1996 study of such incidents [sudden acceleration] by NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation regarding General Motors vehicles found that drivers over age 69 had almost seven times the number of such accidents per driver as those under age 38. This is all the more remarkable in that seniors account for less than 3 per cent of all miles driven, while those under 38 account for 50 per cent.”

    and

    “Schmidt disagrees with the “widespread belief that computerized engine management systems or electronic controls may be to blame.” That’s because the massive number of complaints against the Audi 5000 in the mid-1980s–driven by media misreporting–”happened before the arrival of drive-by-wire controls and computerized engine-management systems.”

    Indeed, per car sold the Audi 5000 had 40 times the sudden acceleration complaints Toyota has received. Yet a later NHTSA study, along with others in Canada and Japan, found every one to be groundless. ”
    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100401/acceleration_data_100402/20100402?s_name=Autos

    It is possible that Toyota’s woes are the result of creating boring enough cars that they are attracting the Buick drivers that I usually see driving through walls and hedges around here.

    In the grand scheme of things, perhaps a couple dozen (not sure of the exact number, but it isn’t big) acceleration issues (even if they are found to be legitimate) WON’T cause a major swing in the reliability stats because they are still relatively infrequent compared to other problems.

    The hate for CR is a classic case of shooting the messenger. From my experience, they are still the best source of reliability info, and that includes when they are negative towards Toyota.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (2:03 am)

    Loboc:
    What?? How could a serial hybrid be ‘nearly identical’ to a Prius??Volt will get 50mpg MINIMUM. Prius gets 50mpg MAXIMUM. (Combined mileage). There is no comparison. They are totally different designs.  

    I was half-expecting a smiley face at the end of that.

    Did we read the same thread yesterday?

    I don’t know if the report is accurate or not, but what was described yesterday of the Volt (and not really contradicted by GM’s response) is nearly identical to the plug-in Prius. Both can use the ICE only to power the car, both can use electric only to power the car, both can use both ICE and electric to power the car, both can use the ICE to charge the battery, etc.

    Again, I’m not saying that what was described yesterday is what we will see, but what was described was a plug-in prius with a bigger battery and more electric drive. I don’t know why that would put you off so much… it seems to me it is clearly the superior design as it can leverage both ICE and electric drive to the best of their abilities in the specific situations in which they excel.

    More to the point, what crazy excuses have you come up with to dispel the MPG that we HAVE seen from the Volt? Or why Lyle hasn’t told us the MPG even though he most certainly saw it?


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (3:57 am)

    Texas: Of course many here don’t actually think about efficiency of systems so I guess that is the reason.

    Texas: By the way, what is 300 miles – 40 miles / 9 gallons?
    29 mpg…  

    Basic middle school math?

    How does one jump from the second week of basic math to knowing the CS gas mileage of an ER-EV that has not been released yet? A small amount of rationality would inform nearly anyone observing the problem that you have a few variables missing in your equation. Oh that’s right basic math, no variables yet.

    Efficiency of systems, or the efficacy of rationality? Does it really matter where the flaw is, if you start with fatally flawed assumptions;
    1) cost and weight of diesel engines, the soot and particulates effects and the difficulty of removing them for the benefit of long trips v. 40 miles on electricity every day?
    2) range on 7.5 to 9 gallons of available fuel after 40 miles AER?
    3) efficiency of engine not responding to torque needs for acceleration with a transmission and shifting?
    4) efficiency of gears or lack of transmission?
    5) efficiency of possible two mode transmission and gears (postulated but not by me)?
    6) engine tuning for limited rpm band electricity generation?
    7) battery assist in CS mode to the electric motor for peak power needs?

    None of your design assumptions for the variables above are covered by that simple equation. Add those to the math.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (4:41 am)

    AnonymousProxy: Only offer the rebate to cars that use either the 70% to 80% depth of discharge for the entire pack.

    LOL. My oh my, what a fantastically arbitrary pronouncement! Well sorry, my wasteful inefficient friend, but with the power vested in me I hereby proclaim that only cars that use >81% depth of discharge may apply!


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (4:44 am)

    Alright guys, it’s time that everybody here started taking half the time they spend at GM-Volt.com and used that time to troll at a LEAF website….

    Don’t be rude or misleading, mind you. Just spread the gospel…


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (5:19 am)

    Although GM hasn’t came right out and said it. Many of the questions asked in re’s today have for the most part been answered. Fuel tank 9 gallons. Price $38,000. CS mpg mid 40′s (under normal conditions). OnStar free for 2 years (maybe more). Sport Mode can be on all the time. Maps by Google. Maintenance updates through OnStar. Keyless operation. Free installation of 240V chargers for a limited time.

    All of these have been supported by GM representatives. Words such as “meeting our goals”, “well within”, and “comfortably” have significant meaning.

    With all of this said. The big question for the consumer is, “When to buy?”.

    =D-Volt


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (6:55 am)

    john1701a:
    Yet, you make this claim anyway: “Volt will get 50mpg MINIMUM.”How can you make that claim?The facts just don’t add up.What information did you draw that conclusion with?  

    You hang out here and never read anything. 50mpg is a Volt design parameter.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (7:01 am)

    GXT: More to the point, what crazy excuses have you come up with to dispel the MPG that we HAVE seen from the Volt? Or why Lyle hasn’t told us the MPG even though he most certainly saw it?

    Instantaneous MPG has pretty much zero relevance for this car since it uses both electricity and gasoline.

    1. Buy a Volt
    2. Drive far enough to fill up the tank three times.
    3. Take the miles driven and divide by the gas used.
    4. Get back to us.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (7:02 am)

    Dave K.: CS mpg mid 40’s (under normal conditions).

    Not even a breakdown of CITY and HIGHWAY makes it vague, at best.

    It’s definitely not an official estimate value either. When will those be available?


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (7:10 am)

    Loboc: Instantaneous MPG has pretty much zero relevance for this car since it uses both electricity and gasoline.

    Huh?

    In CS mode, the fuel-consumption displayed on the gauge reveals MPG.

    That’s quite relevant, especially if you note the values at specific speeds on flat roads during a windless summer day.

    That’s quite informative too. Determining how estimates, such as mysterious “230 MPG”, were derived could finally be possible. It gives potential owners an opportunity to estimate their own consumption potential as well.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (7:16 am)

    john1701a: breakdown…?

    Good morning John. Last word I heard was high 40′s CS with further tuning before release. The Volt features a strong regen setting that will further assist CS performance. The EPA method of MPG places the Volt at about 230 mpg. This is all under full electric drive.

    =D-Volt


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (7:40 am)

    Jim I:
    Michael:The next time you talk to Tag, tell him I said hi!   

    Sure Jim, will do. :-)


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (7:48 am)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson):
    Yes, he’s battling preconceptions.You can hear the pleasant surprise in his voice, as he says “Not bad…”This surprise is going to be mirrored quite a few times in quite a few places over the coming weeks and months.
    (from yesterday):
    Even having said this, CR does seem to know the prejudices of it’s members pretty well …  

    Here’s a CR lover who is coming to their defense. Some people can not even see the prejudice
    of CR. How about when a staff member of CR who gives a bad opinion about a new GM product in which they know nothing about? I guess your too blind to see this. I bet you drive a Japanese car.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (7:51 am)

    Dave K.: The EPA method of MPG places the Volt at about 230 mpg.

    Looks like you missed the daily topic here about that 230 estimate being reduced.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (9:28 am)

    Ricardo Voltardo: Only Niche groups will be able to get this car. So go burn you’re petroleum. This car is no EV just a plain “Hybrid” thats still uses gas so you have no range issues. GM has all fooled thinking “Green”. Then suddenly you are back to support the countries you wish to be free from. Makes no sense. Only 40 miles, still no price and the Leaf will be affordable and go 100 miles. If you want off of oil then buy the Leaf or a real EV and stop pretending you will be green. Because your not with the Volt. You are the worst green ever. I find it strange how you are so proud to get off of oil yet so proud to be able to drive burning it.Proud to be able to burn oil from an American company. Makes you all cheap and backstabbing.  (Quote)

    then find me a car that has 300 mile range I can charge in 3-4 hours, and if I take a longer trip can be fully ready to go when I need to “refill” in 30 minutes …

    Doesn’t exist..likely will not exist…battery swap? means my longer trips MUST be planned to get to one, go ahead. Take the square miles of Canada and USA, and figure one is needed every 150 miles..do the math..better place? is ok in like isreal where its only about 500 mile across the entire friggin country…the long way…I can go 3x times that and not even leave ontario.

    So, no I am not proud to say I burn oil…but at least I can reduce it by 40 miles per day…


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (10:59 am)

    john1701a: Yet, you make this claim anyway: “Volt will get 50mpg MINIMUM.
    How can you make that claim?The facts just don’t add up.
    What information did you draw that conclusion with?

    Real world gas use will prove Loboc right, just not figuratively. If the Volt didn’t have a battery, then you have an argument. The lowest fuel economy I’ve read about was from Lyle when he test drove a Volt. I drove one and got 41 mpg as the lowest number. My entire drive, however was way above that. If I started my day with only one gallon of gas in the car, it’s conceivable that it will still be there 500 miles later. In a sense, 230 mpg is doable, just keep plugging in.
    The plugin Prius will come close to the Volt, but that kind of Pruis can’t be driven exclusively on electricity like the Volt.

    Semantics, that’s all this is. If you don’t want to plug in or if you drive a lot of miles each and every day, then maybe the Volt isn’t for you and your argument is worth something, but for most of us Loboc is telling the truth.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (12:21 pm)

    crew:
    35 mpg at 3800 lbs is amazing and unprecedented.Show me proof otherwise.(nevermind that this is an electric car!)  

    BMW 335D
    Ford fusion hybrid


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (1:54 pm)

    Carcus: BMW 335D
    Ford fusion hybrid

    Nice try.
    I know about the 3,700 lb Ford Fusion Hybrid. The EPA rating is pretty good and real world driving is averaging right around 30 mpg. Ford did good.

    Forget the Beemer, though, not even close.

    So don’t deride “only 35 mpg” people. The Volt, even at that “low” mileage is in lofty, exclusive territory.

    The Volt design team had a goal of 50 mpg and has admitted to actually hitting that number. How it does that, I don’t know. For me what’s important is that it’s an EV first.

    Nobody else can say that.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (2:27 pm)

    Herto: First hatchback in US maybe… not in europe, by far! Some sedans (Citroen’s, Renault’s, Opel’s for instance) are hatchback for years. And the Volt is rather a compact in size than a sedan.  (Quote)

    If the Fusion Hybrid was a hatchback it would be in my garage today. However, we operate as a 1 car family so the small trunk of the hybrid didnt cut it. It just makes so much sense to make the Volt a hatch so as to maximize its utility.


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (3:37 pm)

    Dan Whitlock: No gas struts, the hood is held up by a prop-rod.Go back and watch the video again. After the hood is opened and the camera pans across the engine compartment, the hood prop-rod is laying right across the front of the engine compartment.Also in the picture at the beginning of this story.  (Quote)

    This is true, Dan. Go to this website: http://www.Jaylenosgarage.com and click on Green Garage to find Jay’s extensive drive and walkaround of the Volt, he did it some time ago around the time of the LA Auto Show. You’ll see he opens the hood while making cracks about prop rods…..

    Cheers,

    James


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    Jun 29th, 2010 (9:17 pm)

    I think the tax rebates and any rebates for that matter should be restricted to only what is the “useable” battery capacity not just the size of the pack. This ensures that poor inefficient cars like the Volt don’t benefit. Why waste tax funds on helping everyone carry around 50% more battery capacity but not use the full available depth. It’s a waste of energy lugging around 50% more storage dead weight you can’t use.
    Only offer the rebate to cars that use either the 70% to 80% depth of discharge for the entire pack.

    Volt = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle)


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    Jun 30th, 2010 (12:32 am)

    flmark: [Like why would the governor of LA want MORE offshore drilling?]

    Why? Because the spill wiped out 1/3 of the state’s economy. Drilling is another 1/3 of the economy. With drilling 2/3rds of the state is working, without it 2/3rds of the state isn’t.


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    Jun 30th, 2010 (1:03 am)

    Jim I:
    ===============================Michael:The next time you talk to Tag, tell him I said hi!   

    Yep, tell him that we all hope he is doing well.


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    Shock Me

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    Jun 30th, 2010 (2:44 pm)

    AnonymousProxy: I think the tax rebates and any rebates for that matter should be restricted to only what is the “useable” battery capacity not just the size of the pack. This ensures that poor inefficient cars like the Volt don’t benefit. Why waste tax funds on helping everyone carry around 50% more battery capacity but not use the full available depth. It’s a waste of energy lugging around 50% more storage dead weight you can’t use.
    Only offer the rebate to cars that use either the 70% to 80% depth of discharge for the entire pack.Volt = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle)  

    Since this is less troll-like than your other comments and others might benefit from the reminder, the depth of discharge limits placed on the Volt battery preserve the battery’s stated 10-year lifetime. The end result being the 40-mile AER over the entire life of the battery. Since the battery is a significant expense and most trips will be under 40 miles, the initial 8 KWhrs of usable power per trip is a good compromise. It makes more sense to carry the quickly refueled gasoline generator than the similar weight in batteries.


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    Jun 30th, 2010 (3:52 pm)

    Shock Me: Since this is less troll-like than your other comments and others might benefit from the reminder, the depth of discharge limits placed on the Volt battery preserve the battery’s stated 10-year lifetime. The end result being the 40-mile AER over the entire life of the battery. Since the battery is a significant expense and most trips will be under 40 miles, the initial 8 KWhrs of usable power per trip is a good compromise. It makes more sense to carry the quickly refueled gasoline generator than the similar weight in batteries.

    Read post 211 of the Dealer Training blog post of 6/29 for the EREV party response to this proposed tax credit legislation.


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    Jul 27th, 2010 (3:33 pm)

    Here it is MPG everyone is talking about. Ok first depending on what is being used the car will have a wide range of MPG. If you run little electricity and don’t run the air conditioner etc you will get about 500 miles on a full tank + charge. What that means is 40 miles on battery 460 miles on gas. The tank size is 9 gallons 460/9 = 51.11 MPG. Now we may want to reduce that some for electrical use IPOD/PHONE Charge/Radio/Amp for 12 in SUBS/AC total miles of 400 on battery range 30 miles 370/9 = 40mpg… So the miles per gallon is between 40 – 50mpg depending on electrical usage. The obvious benefit is that you can recharge the battery and not make your electric bill go up to much which cost yourself little. For me a mute point because I drive 100 miles a day just to get to work and back. That has nothing to do with the 3 or 400 miles I drive on the weekends to go up north party etc.

    What I want to know is why they cant make the gas motor produce enough electricity to not only run the car but charge the battery at the same time. I think this could be done quite easily but is obviously not a feature. What they should do is make it go the 4 to 500 miles on full charge plus gas and then at the end of that 500 miles have a fully charged battery pack to drive on from there. I hope they get it right the next version they put out. All of you savvy enough may figure out a way to hook up an alternator to the gas motor and charge your batteries with the added alternator and possibly a inverter or some such device. Although the loss of electricity by conversion seems redundant. I don’t think of myself as very bright but this seems obvious to me.