Jun 21

Volt Nationwide Rollout Complete by End of 2011? Maybe. Maybe Not.

 


[ad#post_ad]GM has told us exactly which markets they will roll out the Chevrolet Volt initially. These are statewide California, Michigan, and Washington DC.

We expect dealerships in those areas to take deliveries of the first Volts in November. It is unknown how first buyers will be chosen, as GM has declined to produce or at least unveil a pre-ordereing process.

GM has said all along the Volt will be a car that can thrive in all areas of the nation, and thus will be available for sale in the whole country, eventually. The question is how eventually.

In a recent webchat, Volt vehicle line director Tony Posawatz appeared to clarify this.

“The Volt is still on schedule to being production for retail customers in November of 2010,” said Posawatz. “First customers in our published launch regions should receive cars before the end of the year. Those launch regions are California, Michigan and greater Washington D.C. area.”

As for the rollout.

“By the end of 2011,” he added. “(The) Volt will be in Canada and nationwide in the U.S.”

Volt communications manager Rob Peterson would not confirm this.

“We won’t be nationwide by end of 2011,” said Peterson. “By that time we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada, Europe and several markets beyond those we’ve already announced.”

I also had the to ask Tony DiSalle, who is GM’s director of Volt marketing, what the timeframe for Volt national rollout will be.

“That’s all still work in progress and will clearly be dependent on the ability of the production facility to ramp up as planned and all those kind of things,” said DiSalle. “Im not in a position to tell you by X-date we will be nationwide. I will tell you we’re heading towards national distribution and theres no question about it.”

“The Volt is not to be a localized state-specific car,” he added. “Volt is going to go across the whole country.”

“Believe me I’d much rather be out there talking about very specifically to the person in Illinois or Iowa or pick a state and say ‘hey this is the date’” he said. “But its not quite that finite at this point.”

As to whether GM has an internal timeframe plan. “Yes theres map,” admitted DiSalle declining to be more specific.

So what is the real answer? I guess we’ll have to stay tuned.
[ad#postbottom]

This entry was posted on Monday, June 21st, 2010 at 6:27 am and is filed under Launch, Release Date. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 178


  1. 1
    solo

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:32 am)

    Perhaps GM is anticipating some early problems with the first vehicles so production will be halted here and there to fix those problems.

    Therefore they cannot promise a nationwide rollout for several months after production begins.


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    Money Pit

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:34 am)

    “That’s all still work in progress and will clearly be dependent on the ability of the production facility to ramp up as planned and all those kind of things,”

    14 months of time will have passes by end of 2011 and at the blistering pace of 8K cars a year will overwhelm GM , so much so the publicly state they are uncertain production could possibly keep up

    That’s a real confidence builder for the Volt and how much GM is really behind it


  3. 3
    Dave G

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:34 am)

    Hey Lyle, you should add a dot for yourself on that map!


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    James

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:36 am)

    I think if I hear “stay tuned” one more time, I’m gonna hurl.

    RECHARGE!

    James


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    Jim

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:36 am)

    I live 1.5 Hours from DC in southern Maryland, Can I purchase a Volt from a DC dealer and drive it down here??? What are the rules?


  6. 6
    Dave G

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:41 am)

    From the article: “We won’t be nationwide by end of 2011,” said Peterson. “By that time we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada, Europe and several markets beyond those we’ve already announced.”

    By summer 2011, the 2012 model Volt will be out.

    Last we heard, the 2012 model had over a dozen quality and cost improvements, and that was a couple of years ago.


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    FME III

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:44 am)

    Geez, GM, not exactly a position designed to instill confidence in the product.

    We seem to have two extremes here: On one hand, Nissan is promising everything to everybody, even though I sincerely doubt they make good on all of Ghosn’s boasting.

    And then there’s GM. The engineers are fully confident in this vehicle, but the leadership is acting like a timid pool-goer who wants to stick only the tip of a toe in the water and then
    S-L-O-W-L-Y wade in. It’s torture every step of the way.

    Puh-lease!


  8. 8
    BobS

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:51 am)

    Do I detect an undercurrent of frustration in this article? It does seem a shame that so many supporters here will be disappointed by the long wait well after the official launch.


  9. 9
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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:53 am)

    @#$!%^#


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    Michael

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:54 am)

    From the article: “The Volt is still on schedule to being production for retail customers in November of 2010,” said Posawatz. “First customers in our published launch regions should receive cars before the end of the year. Those launch regions are California, Michigan and greater Washington D.C. area.”

    As for the rollout. “By the end of 2011,” he added. “(The) Volt will be in Canada and nationwide in the U.S.”

    The GM rep I talked to last month said the nationwide rollout would start 6 months after the initial three market rollout.

    I naturally assumed that meant starting with me next June. ;-)

    I don’t know if they could make nationwide in calendar 2011 or not. My dealer can’t believe the way they say they are going to roll them out. He thinks dealers all over the country are going to be screaming.


  11. 11
    JohnK

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:58 am)

    Clearly some new information, some withheld. New information: Volt in Canada and a few overseas locations. Withheld: when the rollout to the full US will take place. Still a mystery: can’t roll out to full US until production gets high enough. Can’t get production high enough until there is enough demand. Huh??? Conclusion – there is something else going on. Maybe a hint at the real marketing plan? At least we are getting close SOME in the hands of consumers. But Volt will not even begin to be real until it can be bought by people across this land. And it will not begin to fulfill the promise of freedom from oil until it’s price is within reach of a significant percentage of the American population.


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    Rashiid Amul

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:01 am)

    From the article: We won’t be nationwide by end of 2011,” said Peterson. “By that time we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada, Europe and several markets beyond those we’ve already announced.

    Good for our friends in Canada and Europe, and hopefully NZ.
    But the car is being built here. Shouldn’t it be nationwide here and Canada first?
    And besides, Europe as the Ampera.

    I know I’m the one screaming that they should take their time and make this car as close to perfect as possible. But sheeezzz, this is a snails pace.


  13. 13
    Jim I

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:03 am)

    What is the sense of keeping this such a secret?

    And why are the other GM execs shooting Tony Posawatz in the foot. They should have given him a chance to correct himself first. If this is supposed to be the “BIG SECRET”, why didn’t GM leadership just tell everyone to say nothing?

    NOTE TO GM: I won’t wait forever for a Volt. My next car WILL be electric. If it is a GM product, is entirely up to you! But I do have to say that stupid marketing plans like this are not really helping your cause…..

    Have Outlet – Ready For E-REV

    NPNS


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    JohnK

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:07 am)

    “”We won’t be nationwide by end of 2011,” said Peterson. “By that time we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada, Europe and several markets beyond those we’ve already announced.””
    I surely hope this is more for drama than anthing else.
    Of course, I suppose that it is possible that GM is just inept? Maybe they are not up to world class marketing strategy. Maybe rolling the Volt out to the US and two or three overseas countries is just too much to handle properly.


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    Roy H

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:09 am)

    Don’t read too much into the excuses for delays in production ramp up. They have done everything possible to make this car perfect, but are cautious as there is the possibility they missed something. I think this is highly unlikely and there will be no hitches. We have been getting mixed messages and I believe this is mostly because they have been instructed not to give out information. We will have to wait for “official” announcements.

    Jim: I live 1.5 Hours from DC in southern Maryland, Can I purchase a Volt from a DC dealer and drive it down here??? What are the rules?  

    You can buy your Volt anywhere, and drive it home. Contact your local dealership and ask them when their mechanics will have completed training on the Volt. They have a training program and I am sure all mechanics will be trained nation wide before you will be able to get your Volt.


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    kdawg

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:13 am)

    Waiting for the GM rollout is sort of like watching an NBA game. There’s no point of “staying tuned” until the last 2 minutes. I’m lucky to be in Michigan, but I can understand the fustration w/the rest of the country.


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    John W (Tampa)

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:17 am)

    Good news. No I’m serious, I honestly believe they know better than us crazies who would have the production facilities up to make 500,000 Volts year one, then after we’ve saturated the market and had to sell cars at a loss have way too much production equipment just sitting there. Less is more.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:22 am)

    Jim: I live 1.5 Hours from DC in southern Maryland, Can I purchase a Volt from a DC dealer and drive it down here??? What are the rules?  

    I’m on the wait list for a dealer at the northern edge of “the DC area”, about 40 minutes away. The dealers will sell to anyone if you can stand the 90 minute drive for service.


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    ClarksonCote

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:23 am)

    Ugh, I hope they don’t end up shooting themselves in the tire with a slow rollout that just angers early adopters. I want my VOLT! :)

    join thE REVolution


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:23 am)

    You know, it sure does seem like GM just CAN’T make Volts in high volume. Now, they certainly can make cars in high volume, so how is the Volt different? Is it a component that they cannot get in enough volume? It is not the battery. The battery plant is GM and capable of 50,000 per year right this minute, more if needed. Is it the traction motor? Is it the generator. Is it the “modified 2-mode transmission”? Seems unlikely. What a mystery.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:26 am)

    I seem to remember seeing a report that Volts will be available in Texas in early 2011. Or am I imaging things?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:28 am)

    Rashiid Amul: From the article: We won’t be nationwide by end of 2011,” said Peterson. “By that time we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada, Europe and several markets beyond those we’ve already announced. Good for our friends in Canada and Europe, and hopefully NZ.But the car is being built here. Shouldn’t it be nationwide here and Canada first?And besides, Europe as the Ampera. I know I’m the one screaming that they should take their time and make this car as close to perfect as possible. But sheeezzz, this is a snails pace.  (Quote)

    I thought that, early on, the Ampera was actually being built here then shipped to Europe. I’m pretty sure they’re not shipping the Volt there. I may be mistaken though.

    join thE REVolution


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    Michael

     

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:32 am)

    From the article:”We won’t be nationwide by end of 2011,” said Peterson. “By that time we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada, Europe and several markets beyond those we’ve already announced.”

    I know it’s a long shot, but what if Rob was trying to say, “we won’t just be nationwide by the end of 2011 . . . (takes off rose-colored glasses and puts them back in case)


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:33 am)

    Baltimore17:
    I’m on the wait list for a dealer at the northern edge of “the DC area”, about 40 minutes away.The dealers will sell to anyone if you can stand the 90 minute drive for service.  

    Luckily, it won’t need to be serviced a lot, unless you drive more than 40 miles a day.
    Ah, but here is a question. How often do we need to change the oil? Every 3000 miles of ICE use, or less?


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    neutron

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:39 am)

    JohnK: when the rollout to the full US will take place.Still a mystery: can’t roll out to full US until production gets high enough.Can’t get production high enough until there is enough demand.Huh???Conclusion –.  

    “Catch 22″ again ???


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    Eco_Turbo

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:49 am)

    The thought of shipping those ‘new to the market’ Volts overseas must scare the heck out of GM. If I were them, I’d sell all Volts in the US for the first couple of years or so. Remember this car has to be absolutely, positively “perfect” the first time.


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    John W (Tampa)

     

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:50 am)

    How much do you guys think 8kws of Lead Acid batteries would cost if I put up a solar array for my Volt.


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    Schmeltz

     

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:53 am)

    Not trying to be negative on a Monday morning, but GM really better get the Volt right. After reading the latest J.D. Power rankings, that gives me a great deal of pause. In case someone hasn’t read it or heard, Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC brands all dropped in their rankings. Buick is the only one that increased. You can read more here:

    http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2010/06/jd_powers_quality_survey_toyota_tumbles_gm_disappoints.html

    Now to be fair, Toyota dropped a distance on the rankings, but GM is the company that has something to prove. Again and again I read the comments and complaints here about initial low volume roll outs and select markets and so forth. Consider the alternative though of a high volume rollout nationwide….and then a major problem is discovered. The consequence of that would not only be the death of GM, it would be the death of EV’s. Think about it.

    GM: Please get the Volt right!


  29. 29
    neutron

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:54 am)

    “GM has said all along the Volt will be a car that can thrive in all areas of the nation, and thus will be available for sale in the whole country, eventually. The question is how eventually.”

    I wonder if all highly anticipated new car roll outs have this same process? It would interesting to hear if this is typical for other car companies. We will see the LEAF first hand. Did Toyota have this same experience rolling out the Prius? What about the first Corvettes?

    OR… is this a hedging option and/or a nod to internal forces at GM?

    I am guessing GM is waiting until they get a good indication of the VOLT demand in the first roll out markets. If it is strong and for GM, as a for profit company, the choice should be easy… ramp up production and make money.

    Perhaps a next strong market would be the population along the Gulf coast states.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:55 am)

    So what is the point to this story. This information has been out for some time, so what is the point! When GM is ready, they will tell you more. That’s what other automakers do, so why not treat GM like Toyota and the others. Just be patient and wait!

    Can not find anything new about the Volt?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:58 am)

    John W (Tampa): How much do you guys think 8kws of Lead Acid batteries would cost if I put up a solar array for my Volt.  (Quote)

    For solar, some people have gone to golf cart maintenance places, and asked them for the old golf cart batteries that they replaced. They don’t have to ship them out, and you get batteries for free, or near-free.

    Side note: Lyle, in Internet Exporer, every time I post a comment some script causes IE to stop responding. Doesn’t do it in Chrome, my preferred browser, but it does it on multiple computers running IE. Are other people having this issue?

    join thE REVolution


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:58 am)

    Jim: I live 1.5 Hours from DC in southern Maryland, Can I purchase a Volt from a DC dealer and drive it down here??? What are the rules?  

    You’ll find out when it happens!


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    Eco_Turbo

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:59 am)

    neutron said:

    If it is strong and for GM, as a for profit company, the choice should be easy… ramp up production and make money.

    Are you forgetting GM is 61% government owned?


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    joe

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:00 am)

    solo: Perhaps GM is anticipating some early problems with the first vehicles so production will be halted here and there to fix those problems.Therefore they cannot promise a nationwide rollout for several months after production begins.  

    There you go spreading negatives about something you know nothing about.


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    Guy Incognito

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:04 am)

    The vehicle is being released in just over 5 months, in only 3 predetermined markets, and still GM can’t tell us anything of substance about it. I am not comfortable with this.


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    statik

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:04 am)

    Rashiid Amul: From the article: We won’t be nationwide by end of 2011,” said Peterson. “By that time we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada, Europe and several markets beyond those we’ve already announced. Good for our friends in Canada and Europe, and hopefully NZ.But the car is being built here. Shouldn’t it be nationwide here and Canada first?And besides, Europe as the Ampera. I know I’m the one screaming that they should take their time and make this car as close to perfect as possible. But sheeezzz, this is a snails pace.  (Quote)

    Don’t worry Rashiid, the quote from Tony on Canada is “…by the end of 2011, a Volt will be in Canada” Meaning Canada will be where the US is this fall next year with a smattering of cars in early adopter zones.

    So we have had some slippage up here too. The old quote from Tony on Canada was that ‘the Volt would be “rolled out 9 months later in Canada” than the US debut’- which would be July-August of 2011
    http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/05/chevy-volt-will-be-launched-in-canada-in-july-2011/


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    Michael

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:05 am)

    Eco_Turbo: neutronsaid:If it is strong and for GM, as a for profit company, the choice should be easy… ramp up production and make money.
    Are you forgetting GM is 61% government owned?  

    So, are you implying that the government is telling GM how they can rollout the Volt? Hmm . . .


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:11 am)

    BobS: Do I detect an undercurrent of frustration in this article?It does seem a shame that so many supporters here will be disappointed by the long wait well after the official launch.  

    I swear we have a bunch of cry babies on this site, and I don’t care at how many negatives you give me. GM has not changed any of their plans and yet, look at the things folks are saying in this site. Folks, wake up, GM is in control of their products….not this web site. Cry all you want, when GM is ready, you’ll get the Volt!


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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:11 am)

    Jim I: What is the sense of keeping this such a secret?And why are the other GM execs shooting Tony Posawatz in the foot.They should have given him a chance to correct himself first.If this is supposed to be the “BIG SECRET”, why didn’t GM leadership just tell everyone to say nothing?NOTE TO GM:I won’t wait forever for a Volt.My next car WILL be electric.If it is a GM product, is entirely up to you!But I do have to say that stupid marketing plans like this are not really helping your cause…..Have Outlet – Ready For E-REVNPNS  

    Looks like it’s the Leaf in my carport first.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:13 am)

    koz: @#$!%^#  

    I second he motion.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:17 am)

    JohnK: You know, it sure does seem like GM just CAN’T make Volts in high volume.Now, they certainly can make cars in high volume, so how is the Volt different?Is it a component that they cannot get in enough volume?It is not the battery.The battery plant is GM and capable of 50,000 per year right this minute, more if needed.Is it the traction motor?Is it the generator.Is it the “modified 2-mode transmission”?Seems unlikely.What a mystery.  

    It just must be that they are losing so much money on each car they don’t want to sell too many of them.


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    BLDude

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:19 am)

    I live in Iowa – and damn it – I want to know when I can buy a Volt! LOL :)


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:21 am)

    ClarksonCote: For solar, some people have gone to golf cart maintenance places, and asked them for the old golf cart batteries that they replaced. They don’t have to ship them out, and you get batteries for free, or near-free.Side note: Lyle, in Internet Exporer, every time I post a comment some script causes IE to stop responding. Doesn’t do it in Chrome, my preferred browser, but it does it on multiple computers running IE. Are other people having this issue?join thE REVolution  (Quote)

    I am replying to you in IE 8.0.6001.18702IC and I am not having a problem.


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    George S. Bower

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:23 am)

    joe: So what is the point to this story. This information has been out for some time, so what is the point!When GM is ready, they will tell you more. That’s what other do, so why not treat GM like Toyota and the others.Just be patient and wait!
    Can not find anything new about the Volt?  

    The point is is that poor Lyle has to write something everyday on this site (well almost). Let’s face it it ain’t easy. He has a real job also you know!


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:26 am)

    Michael said:

    So, are you implying that the government is telling GM how they can rollout the Volt? Hmm . . .

    Didn’t a lot of this negative and conflicting stuff start after the bailout? It would be just like the government to be wanting to give Ford and Chrysler a chance to catch up.


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    carcus3

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:28 am)

    You have to at least entertain the idea that the Volt (as we know it) may never see a nationwide rollout.

    With the plans for Gen ii being so radically different from gen i, GM may not want the limited production gen i volts scattered out to all of the service centers across the country.

    Second Generation Chevrolet Volt May Use Two-Cylinder or Rotary Range Extender
    http://gm-volt.com/2010/05/27/second-generation-chevrolet-volt-may-use-two-cylinder-or-rotatory-range-extender/


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:33 am)

    Rashiid Amul:
    I am replying to you in IE 8.0.6001.18702IC and I am not having a problem.  

    Missed the edit. Yup. Script running too slow.
    I use FireFox so I am not having this problem either.
    But I would imagine anyone using IE would.


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    mikeinatl.

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:34 am)

    Its gonna be real easy to sell these things all over the USA.

    Just make sure there is a short Volt commerical after every oil spill news report.


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    Rashiid Amul

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:35 am)

    joe: So what is the point to this story. This information has been out for some time, so what is the point!When GM is ready, they will tell you more. That’s what other automakers do, so why not treat GM like Toyota and the others.Just be patient and wait!
    Can not find anything new about the Volt?  

    Joe, are you turning into a troll? ;)


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:41 am)

    I don’t think anyone in DC will have to wait, or in Sacramento, CA. If you’re not in politics, or connected to someone who is, I think it’s gonna be a long wait.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:54 am)

    Michael:
    So, are you implying that the government is telling GM how they can rollout the Volt?Hmm . . .  

    True… We do keep reading the GOV wants out of the car business ASAP and GM agrees. So if the VOLT sells well everyone wins…. including thousands and thousands of new VOLT owners like us. :+}


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    ClarksonCote

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:09 am)

    Rashiid Amul: Missed the edit. Yup. Script running too slow.
    I use FireFox so I am not having this problem either.
    But I would imagine anyone using IE would.

    Thanks for the confirmation Rashiid. I’m running the same version (sans the IC at the end). Seems like any updates I’ve done in the past haven’t fixed it. I wonder what the cause is? Seems to only happen after posting a comment, so maybe that’s a clue as to what functionality is enducing the IE illness.

    join thE REVolution


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    maharguitar

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:14 am)

    It has been nearly two years since the Fall of 2010 was announced as the production date. It has been almost that long since we heard that it was going to be a limit roll out to just a few states. From what I can tell, GM is nearly spot on with their plans. This schedule is practically choreographed it is going so well.

    It is amazingly difficult to predict how long something is going to take. Look at Boeing’s 787 project, for example. The first flight slipped by six months because a static load test failed and they had to redesign a wing component. This was just weeks before the first flight was scheduled to take place and everybody thought the original date was very reachable.

    It’s hard to properly set expectations. If you tell a customer that something will be ready in the fourth quarter, they expect to see it October 1st and you expect do deliver in the last week of December. The members of gm-volt are very excited about the Volt and have a natural tendency to think that the rest of the world thinks as they do. From their perspective, GM is woefully underestimating demand.

    For most of my friends, cars are barely on their radar screen and they know almost nothing about the Volt and, frankly, care very little. GM has to take customer preferences from all markets and try to determine what the actual demand is going to be. My guess is that the picture is very muddled.


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    Herm

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:18 am)

    John W (Tampa):
    #27 How much do you guys think 8kws of Lead Acid batteries would cost if I put up a solar array for my Volt.  

    Costco deep cycles are about $60 per kwh, double the number to extend their life and it would cost you under $1000. 16 batteries in total.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:35 am)

    John W (Tampa): I honestly believe they know better than us crazies who would have the production facilities up to make 500,000 Volts year one, then after we’ve saturated the market and had to sell cars at a loss have way too much production equipment just sitting there. Less is more.

    Well I think we all understand they can’t go straight to 500,000 because their suppliers wouldn’t be able to provide all the components they need. It will take time for GM and their suppliers to build the supply chain.

    But I don’t think it is crazy to say they are ramping towards 500,000 a year, but that it will take 2-3 years to get to that number. Then the economies of scale will kick in and battery prices will fall. And if they couldn’t sell those in this country then they could sell them overseas.

    What I’d REALLY like to see is a strategy where they first meet all the domestic demand and then after they’ve done that they move on to europe and other places.

    I really am not as concerned with helping Europe eliminate their imported oil, I want us first to eliminate our imported oil.

    And since this Gulf spill is going to set back domestic oil production it is more important than ever we move fast to cut our oil use as imported oil will have to rise to replace the oil we are going to lose in the gulf. Very Sad. More lost American jobs.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:48 am)

    CorvetteGuy: If you’re not in politics, or connected to someone who is, I think it’s gonna be a long wait.  

    Yes. It’s painful. GM decided to build a car, in their words, “for the masses”. OK. But then they don’t build enough of them so “the masses” can buy one. What’s the point?

    Here they say they have “a map” of the time frame for the rollout. OK. But either they don’t know how to read the map, the cartographers aren’t finished with it, or they don’t want to share it. They’d be better off just saying they’re clueless. At this point they just look like the Keystone Kops.

    BTW my guess is that it’s management. Obviously the engineers have performed. Obviously the production people can perform. What’s missing is a management team determined to make it happen.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:49 am)

    Only problem I have with some market introduction areas is I think GM is putting emphasis on Celebrity buyers. Heck, they’re some of the same people that bought Hummers. Celebrity endorsement has virtually no influence on my purchase decisions.

    It’ll be available in my area when it’s available. Speculation isn’t going to change anything. When it’s available and I know what it’s going to cost I can decide about purchase. Until then, I’ll keep an eye on the technical stuff.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:54 am)

    maharguitar: GM has to take customer preferences from all markets and try to determine what the actual demand is going to be. My guess is that the picture is very muddled.  

    The problem with this argument is that it only makes sense if you don’t look at Nissan. The comparison is shocking. AFAIK Nissan doesn’t have a better crystal ball than GM does, but that doesn’t seem to be stopping them.

    GM supporters are beginning to feel like British soccer fans. You have a team with great promise that just isn’t performing.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:54 am)

    GM does not want an expansive roll-out, because they need 2 years to bring the cost down.

    They are willing to sell a few thousand at a loss or narrow margin, but when they hit six figures in production, GM must have a bigger profit margin than their Malibu, or other similar car. Otherwise they are squandering their opportunity to become profitable in the medium term.

    While the Volt might save the world (and the Gulf of Mexico), for GM, that’s beside the point.

    They want to save GM.

    [fuel cell comment alert]
    An article in the AUTOMOBILE press last week gave some very interesting information about the trend in fuel cell material cost projections. By their projection, a 3rd generation EREV could have a fuel cell, and make GM more money by being cheaper than a battery pack. [end fuel cell comment]


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:10 am)

    ClarksonCote: Side note: Lyle, in Internet Exporer, every time I post a comment some script causes IE to stop responding. Doesn’t do it in Chrome, my preferred browser, but it does it on multiple computers running IE. Are other people having this issue?

    #31

    Yes.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:11 am)

    Eco: [fuel cell comment alert]An article in the AUTOMOBILE press last week gave some very interesting information about the trend in fuel cell material cost projections. By their projection, a 3rd generation EREV could have a fuel cell, and make GM more money by being cheaper than a battery pack. [end fuel cell comment]

    Let me guess, they assumed the batteries would “continue to cost $1000/kwh” by that time.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:12 am)

    ClarksonCote: Side note: Lyle, in Internet Exporer, every time I post a comment some script causes IE to stop responding. Doesn’t do it in Chrome, my preferred browser, but it does it on multiple computers running IE. Are other people having this issue?

    Use IE7 compatibility mode, it will work just fine.


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    BLIND GUY

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:20 am)

    Using the available information that we have, I’m glad my wife and I have decided to wait 2 or 3 years to purchase our ev.. I hope GM will sell alot of the cruise models to help with the oil dependancy cause until they can get the Volt out in volume at a reasonable price.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:23 am)

    I will agree to disagree on GM’s Volt role-out “plans” and not go into another rant.

    I was seeing a glimmer of hope — that the Volt would actually be for-sale in 2011. I will choose to remain optimistic — They will build Volts, there will be waiting lists and delay, but I will get one.

    bad day.

    Schmeltz: Again and again I read the comments and complaints here about initial low volume roll outs and select markets and so forth. Consider the alternative though of a high volume rollout nationwide….and then a major problem is discovered. The consequence of that would not only be the death of GM, it would be the death of EV’s. Think about it.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:27 am)

    neutron: What about the first Corvettes?

    #29

    The story of the first Corvettes is eerily similar. In 1953, Chevy produced 300 Corvettes. They were built on a sort of pre-production basis, and doled out to various “celebrities” and “opinion leaders” around the country. They created quite a buzz, but the general public could not get their hands on one.

    In 1954 they geared up the real production line in St. Louis and built about 3500. By then the buzz had died down. They sold about 2500 and had about 1000 sitting on the lots at the end of the year. I have seen stories of people buying brand new ’54s for $2500, vs an MSRP of $3500. As a result, there was strong support in GM management for dropping the Corvette.

    Some say that the T-Bird saved the Corvette. When the ’55 T-Bird appeared, the great Zora Arkus-Duntov wrote a famous memo to Ed Cole, telling him that GM would never live it down if it gave up in the face of the T-Bird. Production continued in 1955 at a much reduce rate, with a total of 700 ’55s built. In 1955, the 6cyl engine was replaced with the 265 V-8, which was a huge step in the right direction.

    In 1956 a completely restyled car appeared, which answered many of the objections to the ’53-’55s. It featured roll up windows and a top which actually kept most of the rain out, LOL. It also offered some usefully warmed up engine options, and the salutary results of Duntov’s chassis tweaking on the handling. In 1957 fuel injection, a 4 speed gearbox, and some very useful competition handling and brake upgrades became available, which transformed the Corvette into a very successful competition car.

    Even so, it is interesting to remember that it was not until 1962 that 10,000 Corvettes were produced in a model year.

    I wonder if this experience colors GM’s attitude to “halo” cars to this day?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:35 am)

    John W (Tampa): Good news.No I’m serious, I honestly believe they know better than us crazies who would have the production facilities up to make 500,000 Volts year one, then after we’ve saturated the market and had to sell cars at a loss have way too much production equipment just sitting there.Less is more.  

    This just in: Florida will be last!!! Does the news still seem good, John?

    Just kidding.

    We all know that Georgia will be last.

    /especially those of us who live here …

    On the other hand, I’m not in a position to buy early; it’s just a disappointment. How will we survive on this site for another 3+ years?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:40 am)

    Question: If demand in the first 2 states + DC is more then GM can make why open it up nationwide??

    I think demand will be more then enough for the first 2 years in just these 3 places.

    This is easy for me to say I live in Michigan. But honestly if you could sell all you can build just in the state the car is built in and TV land and to your bosses people in DC why waste the money to sell it nation wide?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:45 am)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): On the other hand, I’m not in a position to buy early; it’s just a disappointment. How will we survive on this site for another 3+ years?

    #66

    Well SOMEBODY will get one. We can hang out for the next 3+ years and follow their adventures as guinea pigs, LOL. By the time the likes of us get one, I hope that most of the bugs will be worked out. Maybe the Gen 2 WILL have arrived, with some of the cool features suggested by carcus3 at #46.

    Our Cobalt will run fine for another 3+ years. I will be perfectly happy to keep the $35K, or whatever the OTD price is, in the mattress for another 3+ years. How that helps GM, I fail to understand, but it works OK for me. Boring, but OK.


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    Dave K.

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:49 am)

    Remember the pent up demand for the new body style Camaro? Now that the initial wave of buyers have received delivery. We have 6 new Camaro to pick from at the local Chevrolet dealerships.

    I don’t foresee an in stock Volt sitting on a dealer lot for at least 3 years. Will GM hold one Volt per dealership for demo drives? Or will we see more Volt demo days at local parking lots? Give Earl Warren Showgrounds in Santa Barbara a call. Plenty of room to drive in their large kidney shaped lot. Central location in an upper middle class green community. Right next to the 101 freeway. http://www.earlwarren.com/ews_pages_html/parkinglot.html

    =D-Volt


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:56 am)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson):
    This just in:Florida will be last!!!Does the news still seem good, John?Just kidding.We all know that Georgia will be last./especially those of us who live here … On the other hand, I’m not in a position to buy early; it’s just a disappointment.How will we survive on this site for another 3+ years?  

    I think NZ will be @#$!%^# last!


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    Timaaayyy!!!

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:03 am)

    GM’s still seems to be learning how to manage their openness on the Volt project. I really like the sense of community it engenders. That is terrific. Not so good is the confusion also created. There’s no one single point person, but many spokepeople, so it’s easy for communications to be inconsistent. And the Volt community has become used to the openness, which has caused a lot of angst over the closedness of some info, such as the price and ordering process.

    I’m not sure where all this leads–a sense of community can be created by being closed in some ways, too, such as Apple’s product intro’s, where breakthrough new products are developed in secret then intro’d soon before launch in exciting fashion. Importantly, the community (developers especially) is then quickly brought in and coddled.

    Wouldn’t it be great if GM developed their own strong community? Maybe Lyle’s website is just the beginning.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:05 am)

    EVNow: Use IE7 compatibility mode, it will work just fine.  (Quote)

    Yes, it looks like that works EVNow, thanks for the tip! I wonder what the heart of the issue is in displaying the newest GM-Volt page design, but having a workaround, I’ll go back to the topic at hand. ;)

    join thE REVolution


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:06 am)

    Dave K.: We have 6 new Camaro to pick from at the local Chevrolet dealerships.

    #69

    Yeah, us too.

    Dave K.: Give Earl Warren Showgrounds in Santa Barbara a call. Plenty of room to drive in their large kidney shaped lot. Central location in an upper middle class green community. Right next to the 101 freeway.

    That brings back a lot of memories. We used to go the the sports car races at Santa Barbara Airport, lo those many years ago. Right up the road. And we used to go to Cold Spring Tavern, and camp in the back country around Pendola Station along the river above Gibralter Reservoir. And my wife has read every Sue Grafton novel for sure, LOL.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:06 am)

    Dave K.: Will GM hold one Volt per dealership for demo drives?

    That’s what I thought they would do. Test drive the Volt, buy a Cruze. BUT if they only build 8000 the first year and open it up nationwide, how many dealerships do they have? 5000? Not much left.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:08 am)

    Timaaayyy!!!: Wouldn’t it be great if GM developed their own strong community? Maybe Lyle’s website is just the beginning.

    #71

    “From your lips to God’s ear.” – Tagamet +1


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    john1701a

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:15 am)

    Timaaayyy!!!: Wouldn’t it be great if GM developed their own strong community? Maybe Lyle’s website is just the beginning.

    The very definition of a niche!

    If the goal is to achieve mainstream appeal, effort to make the vehicle ubiquitous is required.

    You want it to become such a standard that it doesn’t stand out, quite the opposite of something in a group.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:16 am)

    ClarksonCote: Side note: Lyle, in Internet Exporer, every time I post a comment some script causes IE to stop responding. Doesn’t do it in Chrome, my preferred browser, but it does it on multiple computers running IE. Are other people having this issue?

    I’ve been having this issue for months.

    Every time I post, I have to close the tab within a few seconds, and then open a new tab from the main gm-volt page. Otherwise it will hang up for a minute or two, and then ask if I want to stop running the script.

    Also, after I edit one of my posts, I have to hit Refresh or F5 in order to select text again.

    I don’t have these types of problems on other sites. Very annoying…


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    Van

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:19 am)

    “The Volt is still on schedule to being production for retail customers in November of 2010,” said Posawatz. “First customers in our published launch regions should receive cars before the end of the year. Those launch regions are California, Michigan and greater Washington D.C. area.”

    I did not read all of the comments so if this is redundant, sorry.

    Just what does “being production” mean? Is it a typo for “beginning production.” We have been all through this before, where in one statement GM seems to say start of production in November 2010, and another spokesman says cars will be in the showrooms in the initial rollout areas in November. I have long feared those who say production had the story right. So the Volt will not hit the showrooms and be available for sale in November, but instead “before the end of the year.”

    So this article seems to say our expectations for initial retail sale in November should be adjusted to end of December, and our expectation for the car to be available in all markets by the end of 2011 is also overly optimistic.

    I keep saying go Volt and floor it GM, and GM keeps appearing to dither while the completion charges full speed ahead. Anybody read it differently?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:24 am)

    Noel Park: #71“From your lips to God’s ear.” – Tagamet +1  (Quote)

    Thanks, brother.

    But I figured God has 2 ears. Oh well, he/she can lip read, anyway.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:28 am)

    john1701a: Timaaayyy!!!: “Wouldn’t it be great if GM developed their own strong community? Maybe Lyle’s website is just the beginning. The very definition of a niche!”

    If the goal is to achieve mainstream appeal, effort to make the vehicle ubiquitous is required.
    You want it to become such a standard that it doesn’t stand out, quite the opposite of something in a group.

    Yes, well said, +1.

    After the Volt has been out for a while, interest in this site will probably fall off. It’ll just be old news.

    It’s supposed to be a mainstream car.

    If GM and Lyle both did a good job, then this site will become a thing of the past, like Napster. It may not go away completely, but it won’t be anything like it was.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:35 am)

    Dave G:
    Yes, well said, +1.After the Volt has been out for a while, interest in this site will probably fall off.It’ll just be old news.It’s supposed to be a mainstream car.If GM and Lyle both did a good job, then this site will become a thing of the past, like Napster.It may not go away completely, but it won’t be anything like it was.  

    And for it to become a mainstream car, the price needs to drop significantly.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:41 am)

    Timaaayyy!!!: But I figured God has 2 ears. Oh well, he/she can lip read, anyway.

    #79

    Well, it’s a figure of speech often quoted by Dr. T. I used to say “ears”, but I think it’s actually “ear”. Sort of as if you were whispering in His or Her ear. If Dr. T out there, maybe he will correct me. I use it quite a bit, and I’s hate to be quoting it wrong.

    Any way He/She can read your thoughts before you even say them, I was taught to believe.

    Anyway, I hope you’re right.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:46 am)

    Dave G: After the Volt has been out for a while, interest in this site will probably fall off. It’ll just be old news.

    It’s supposed to be a mainstream car.

    If GM and Lyle both did a good job, then this site will become a thing of the past, like Napster. It may not go away completely, but it won’t be anything like it was.

    #80

    I sure hope not. We can speculate forever about Gen 2, Gen 3, vans, pickups, sports cars, you name it. And share our experiences. And lies about who is the mileage champion. You should see the Corvette sites. They go from strength to strength. Maybe we can start a Volt owners’ club. I’ll join.

    If we let go of a world wide community with statik, Jean-Charles, NZDavid, Dimitri, and so many others, shame on us.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:52 am)

    john1701a: The very definition of a niche!If the goal is to achieve mainstream appeal, effort to make the vehicle ubiquitous is required.You want it to become such a standard that it doesn’t stand out, quite the opposite of something in a group.  (Quote)

    I don’t follow. A community created around a brand is a marketer’s dream. Especially, for GM, if it’s a large community. Community and size are largely independent. “I’m a Ford truck guy” means you’re part of a community that’s a big chunk of the total light truck mkt. “I’m proud to be an American” means you’re part of a 300 MILLION person community.

    Every company wants their products to stand out. Many different ways for that to happen, though, such as thru reliability, ease of use, coolness, resale value, safety, performance, etc. etc. etc. The Camry doesn’t do it via styling, for example (rather, thru highest speed thru a school zone–lol). Yes, part of the V1.0 Volt’s appeal for some will be its exclusivity, but hopefully GM hopes that transitions to ‘green’ and ‘getting off of foreign oil’ appeals, which are a much bigger %age of the vehicle mkt.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:02 pm)

    NZDavid: I think NZ will be @#$!%^# last!

    And dont expect anything from Fiat/Chrysler either after you guys tried to beat Italy yesterday :)


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:05 pm)

    Is anyone else going to see what kind of deal they can get before buying? I’m not going to commit to a car unless I know I can get a deal on it, and paying full MSRP is no deal. I’m sure I’ll have to wait, but I just can’t see getting screwed paying full price for a car.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:12 pm)

    Brian: Is anyone else going to see what kind of deal they can get before buying? I’m not going to commit to a car unless I know I can get a deal on it, and paying full MSRP is no deal. I’m sure I’ll have to wait, but I just can’t see getting screwed paying full price for a car.  (Quote)

    “No Volt for you come back one year”


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:12 pm)

    Noel Park: #80
    I sure hope not. We can speculate forever about Gen 2, Gen 3, vans, pickups, sports cars, you name it. And share our experiences. And lies about who is the mileage champion. You should see the Corvette sites. They go from strength to strength. Maybe we can start a Volt owners’ club. I’ll join.
    If we let go of a world wide community with statik, Jean-Charles, NZDavid, Dimitri, and so many others, shame on us.

    You’re spot on. Lots of ways for creative people to keep some interest going, as we’re only in the 1st inning of the electrification of the vehicle. Will be hard to match Volt V1.0, though, but that’s ok.

    Here’s a few ideas to keep the community jazzed, longer-term: social gatherings of Volt owners and enthusiasts (that alone is worth years and years of interest), additional vehicles to get the Voltec treatment, a count-up of barrels of oil avoided (similar to the Volt count-down, or the national debt clock. Maybe call it ‘Sheik the Addiction’ or ‘The Ban Tally’), ways to make your Volt driving carbon-free (solar panels for your garage roof, like some here have posted), and progress in battery development. A lot like Lyle is already doing.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:17 pm)

    I got tired of waiting and promises. Bought a 2010 Toyota Prius II. $1,000 rebate, $250 over dealers invoice. Very happy so far.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:34 pm)

    maharguitar: ” … most of my friends, cars are barely on their radar screen and they know almost nothing about the Volt … “  (Quote)

    Perhaps…just maybe…advertising might help with that?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:39 pm)

    Dave G:
    I’ve been having this issue for months.Every time I post, I have to close the tab within a few seconds, and then open a new tab from the main gm-volt page.Otherwise it will hang up for a minute or two, and then ask if I want to stop running the script.Also, after I edit one of my posts, I have to hit Refresh or F5 in order to select text again.I don’t have these types of problems on other sites.Very annoying…  

    IE8 works better in compatibility mode, but not perfect (still has rendering problems with this site).

    I use FireFox unless I hit a site (such as internal company sites with annoying ASP pages) where FireFox won’t work.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:43 pm)

    Brian: I’m not going to commit to a car unless I know I can get a deal on it, and paying full MSRP is no deal.

    Realistically the question is whether you can buy a Volt for MSRP. My guess is that paying MSRP for a Volt isn’t much of a deal for most people who are interested in buying one. The ugly part is if they have to pay MORE than MSRP. In truth the price is what it is, but paying above MSRP just feels like a rip-off.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:44 pm)

    Off topic. Where is Tagamet? I haven’t seen a Tag post in what seems like a week?

    LJGTVWOTR? when?

    Have plug.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (12:49 pm)

    OT: One of the reasons put forth to buy an EV is that maintenance costs will be lower. Add Cadillac to the list of companies eliminating this as a reason. It will now cover all required maintenance for the first 50,000 miles. http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2010/06/cadillac_offers_free_oil_chang.html

    In truth there just isn’t that much required maintenance for most cars these days during the first 50,000 miles. So a program like this sounds great but doesn’t really cost the manufacturer that much.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (1:08 pm)

    Timaaayyy!!!:
    You’re spot on.Lots of ways for creative people to keep some interest going, as we’re only in the 1st inning of the electrification of the vehicle.Will be hard to match Volt V1.0, though, but that’s ok. ….
    ways to make your Volt driving carbon-free (solar panels for your garage roof, like some here have posted), and progress in battery development.A lot like Lyle is already doing.  

    I predict the evolution of this car and most electric cars will be very dynamic.
    I date back to when computers evolved to the personal level. ( and maybe a few of you do too :=}) The Altair, Radio Shack ( 4 K Memory!!!) and eventually Apple II.

    The electric car with evolving power options are next. The Volt is step one in this enlightened process. Range extenders now and who knows later. Once thing will be sure there will be cheaper more powerful energy options, more vehicle options and a lot of things we can just begin to think about…. where speculation is wide open.
    A very exciting time…


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (1:32 pm)

    DonC: In truth there just isn’t that much required maintenance for most cars these days during the first 50,000 miles. So a program like this sounds great but doesn’t really cost the manufacturer that much.

    #94

    Right. +1


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    James

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (1:34 pm)

    Remember the “Soup Nazi”? ….. “NO SOUP FOR YOU!” …..For a couple years we who live in ——– The otherrr —– 47 will have to listen to: “NO VOLT FOR YOU!”

    Like others, I’ll quote the article here: ”We won’t be nationwide by end of 2011,” said Peterson. “By that time we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada, Europe and several markets beyond those we’ve already announced.” - Of course, you don’t have to read between the lines much to read: “By that time (China) we expect to be shipping vehicles to Canada (China), Europe (China), and several other markets (China) beyond those (China) we’ve already announced.” - Well I certainly could pop off here with some nationalistic, or patriotic, for that matter, comments about how Toyota released the Prius for years (1997-2001) in it’s domestic market before releasing it worldwide – and I could slam the General for concentrating so much of their alternative propulsion vehicle program around China — but perhaps, and I emphasize perhaps, the huge demand for electrified personal transport in the LEAD PAINTED CHILDREN’S TOY CAPITAL OF THE WORLD and the subsequent satisfaction of that need with GM Volts and MPV5s will finance the further development of future electric vehicles for the American market, now number two in the world.

    As I stated a couple days back GM is deeply invested in China and is working hard to convince it’s government that it means business in leading the way towards gasoline-free personal autos. Again for reference I’ll mention GM’s China Automotive Energy Research Center in Beijing, The GM China Science Lab, which opened in November and GM China Group’s managing director Kevin Wales’ quote: ” The world premier of the Volt MPV5 concept in Beijing demonstrates GM’s desire to make China a global focus of it’s advanced technology strategy”. GM is currently working on a comprehensive energy strategy for China mainly due to the Chinese government’s realization that they cannot depend on “cheap” oil, as America has, to supply it’s domestic auto market. It’s another reason China has incicated it will impose the strictest emissions controls and mileage standards on the planet.

    <<>>

    On the other hand – how does it look for America’s largest automaker, 61% owned by American citizens to be looking to a Communist nation who thinks of Americans as stupid, gullible, excessive consumers with far too many personal freedoms, to pave the way for our future independence from other countrys who profoundly dislike us, and their oil – somewhere down the line?

    Seriously, I don’t really know. You tell me.

    Your opinions on this subject are greatly appreciated. :)

    RECHARGE!

    James


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (1:40 pm)

    john1701a:
    The very definition of a niche!If the goal is to achieve mainstream appeal, effort to make the vehicle ubiquitous is required.You want it to become such a standard that it doesn’t stand out, quite the opposite of something in a group.  

    Dave G:
    Yes, well said, +1.After the Volt has been out for a while, interest in this site will probably fall off.It’ll just be old news.It’s supposed to be a mainstream car.If GM and Lyle both did a good job, then this site will become a thing of the past, like Napster.It may not go away completely, but it won’t be anything like it was.  

    My prediction is that gm-volt.com will still be alive and thriving in 3 years, and that john1701a will still be snarking on it.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (2:15 pm)

    James: Seriously, I don’t really know. You tell me.

    #97

    Better to sell them our stuff and/or have our captive factories there sell them stuff and the profits come home than vice versa. The whole world has made that model work pretty well here. If we don’t start reversing the trend, we are doomed as a 1st world economy, IMHO.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (2:17 pm)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): My prediction is that gm-volt.com will still be alive and thriving in 3 years, and that john1701a will still be snarking on it.

    Both pretty safe bets, IMHO. +1


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (2:18 pm)

    Starcast: “No Volt for you come back one year”

    #87

    If you’re lucky, LOL! +1


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (2:20 pm)

    John: I got tired of waiting and promises. Bought a 2010 Toyota Prius II. $1,000 rebate, $250 over dealers invoice. Very happy so far.

    #89

    You and a lot of others, IMHO. Alas, who could blame you. I don’t think it deserves a “-1″. +1 to get you even.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (2:47 pm)

    James: Your opinions on this subject are greatly appreciated.

    The only silver lining I can provide in the picture you painted is that even if China is going full steam ahead on oil free driving (ahead of the USA), that still helps the USA. The less oil the world uses, the less $/power terrorists countries have. Not to mention the benifit to the environment. This mass production also lowers the cost of EV’s as the market matures.

    That being said, I still think we need to push more for EV’s in this country than what we are currently doing. Give people all the choices regarding what vehicle citizens can buy (just add a $1.00 gas tax to nudge them the right way). You will see a change in the market, and much more realistic pressure on auto companies to make fuel efficient vehicles.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (2:53 pm)

    37361986.SoupNaziverdict.jpg

    We do understand Volt is expensive – that supposedly rare earth magnets for the motors may well be in short supply ( sounds good anyway ) and customer awareness of EREVs will take time…. And I do agree anytime we have the possibility of selling large industrial goods overseas, we should jump at the chance, how refreshing…

    Yet Caterpillar, and other large equipment manufacturers have found it much more practical to build factories in China using Chinese workers to sell there wares there – and I would think Chinese manufacturing would be much more financially profitable for GM – and then shipping those Volts here – is very appealing. Not gonna go over with the UAW though…

    I just don’t know – it seems every sign coming from Detroit is that Volt is just sooooo expensive for them in it’s current iteration.

    Banking on a Version II or III…. Well…. it could happen….

    RECHARGE!

    James


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:06 pm)

    I’m started to think if the information on this sit is true or not. On a webchat it was clearly stated that the volt will be nation wide in 2011. I come here satements seem has change.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:12 pm)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): My prediction is that gm-volt.com will still be alive and thriving in 3 years

    Please quantify… owners, waiting, members, actual sold.

    In other words, how many does “thriving” represent?

    The lack of concise is the heart of the trouble. Ambiguous responses contributed to problems of the past. Answer questions. State goals. Celebrate milestones.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:24 pm)

    19 ClarksonCote: Ugh, I hope they don’t end up shooting themselves in the tire with a slow rollout that just angers early adopters. I want my VOLT!

    So at this time I guess I’m in the category of angered [or at least disappointed] early adopters. Basically I feel like gm is not really thumbing its nose but more just indifferent to the people across the county who have been interested supporters in the Volt. Consequently I have adopted the following plan:

    If, as, and when gm decides to sell gen 1 Volts at a local dealer, then I’ll go and see it, and if it is available I may buy it, unless another electric car (read Leaf) has already been for sale here in central NC where I live and I’ve bought one of those instead.

    Until gm decides to sell Volts locally, I’m not visiting any gm dealer for any reason. That has practical consequences, as my family has 3 cars and the Volt would replace only one. At present we are shopping for a replacement for our Chevrolet Silverado truck. We are good gm customers, but the rule applies, so we have visited all the other brands and will, I suppose, shortly make a purchase from one of them. It’s “linkage”, as they say in politics.

    Yes, gm has treated us indifference, assuming I think that we will wait forever. I am these days really not angry, but I am discouraged. I still think the Volt is the best product and would like to buy one, but I’m not inclined to have to chase one down someplace else across the country, as there likely would be too many service issues. As it does not seem that a local purchase of gen 1 will ever be possible, we have to go on with our lives on some other plan.

    [So above I said "gen 1 Volt" in our area. If we never see a gen 1 Volt here, then I'll never see a gm dealer again. I'm thinking that gen 2, from what we have heard, is going to be a greatly dumbed down vehicle with limited or no all electric range, more nearly a standard hybrid sort of car.]

    As a person with a low number on Lyle’s list, I’m really sorry it all is turning out out this way.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:26 pm)

    kdawg:
    ….Give people all the choices regarding what vehicle citizens can buy (just add a $1.00 gas tax to nudge them the right way).You will see a change in the market, and much more realistic pressure on auto companies to make fuel efficient vehicles.  

    Just about everyone in Washington D.C. on both sides of the aisle concurs: A gasoline tax is political suicide. Don’t look for any gasoline tax any time soon. There has been no significant gasoline tax hike here since 1992. As the Assistant Secretary of Transportation was quoted recently in Automobile Magazine, “There currently is no appetite on the hill for a hike in the gasoline tax”. She quoted the bad economy, etc.. Truth is, any politician who endorses a gasoline tax will be assailed by their opponents come election time – as a tax-and-spender who wants to punish the common man with a tax on a commodity they need on a very regular basis.

    So this is the direction the Obama administration takes – ” See the Gulf Crisis, it shows we need a Cap and Trade, personal and corporate carbon emissions tax.” We see that traditional progressive premise of “don’t let a crisis go to waste”- Rahm Emanuel – White House Chief of Staff.

    Problem is, the much greater crisis is our increasing dependence on a declining, polluting oil timebomb, and our current unbelievable national debt.

    Who here would agree that paying another 25-50 cents per gallon to pay down our national debt and grease the rails of energy independence is a much sounder move of a responsible government than an ambiguous tax upon every employer extant and a green assault on your personal electrical usage by the federal machine ever increasing in size and power over it’s people?

    As it stands, it aint gonna happen. We’re gonna pay a price every time we fire up the toaster oven and at work by dwindling benefits and jobs.

    RECHARGE!

    James

    One thing that’s been on my mind lately is — What to do, buy $40,000 worth of solar panels to try to get Obama out of my kitchen —- and be able to cleanly, independently charge my …maybe, Volt…. But then I won’t be able to buy the Volt…..sheesh!


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:28 pm)

    Timaaayyy!!!: A community created around a brand is a marketer’s dream.

    If it empowers owners, it will draw in joe average.

    If it creates a sense of exclusivity (think “smug”), then the effect is exactly the opposite… scaring away the mainstream. The curious typically don’t want any part of that.

    Study the difference between blogging pages, forums, and websites. There are profound differences that easily get overlooked. Certain traits only work in certain venues.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:35 pm)

    29 neutron: and/or a nod to internal forces at GM?

    That’s my guess.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:36 pm)

    john1701a:
    Please quantify… owners, waiting, members, actual sold.In other words, how many does “thriving” represent?The lack of concise is the heart of the trouble.Ambiguous responses contributed to problems of the past.Answer questions.State goals.Celebrate milestones.  

    We do not need your “enlightened ombudsmanship” John. After reading years of these comments, it’s clear enough that for you, “the trouble” is actually anything on the site which promotes the Chevrolet Volt in a positive light. This website can achieve a positive role for it’s participants without satisfying your arbitrary metrics. Pretending to speak from a perspective of superiority satisfies your own psychological needs, but contributes nothing useful for anyone else.

    john1701a: Certain traits only work in certain venues.

    Yours do not work, here.

    While I predict that your snarking will never end, I (and many others, no doubt) would welcome at least a respite from your never-ending criticisms and continuous belittlement of everything we hope for from this product.

    It is frustrating enough to admit that quantifiable information is clearly in the province of GM to provide, without having to endure your endless demands to conjure such from thin air. This is not a GM sanctioned site: There are limits to what can be expected from it. The rest of the regulars here are capable of recognizing this. Why aren’t you?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:42 pm)

    38 joe: Folks, wake up, GM is in control of their products….not this web site. Cry all you want, when GM is ready, you’ll get the Volt!  

    We GM is ready, should that time come, we will buy a Volt unless a better choice has become available, and we have already purchased that one.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:43 pm)

    James: Who here would agree that paying another 25-50 cents per gallon to pay down our national debt and grease the rails of energy independence is a much sounder move of a responsible government than an ambiguous tax upon every employer extant and a green assault on your personal electrical usage by the federal machine ever increasing in size and power over it’s people?

    How do you write so much? You must be the fastest typist in the world. Plus a fast thinker! :-)

    Cap & Trade or a gas tax. Either will work. But for a gas tax to be effective it would need to add at least a couple of bucks a gallon. Twenty-five cents per gallon might increase revenue but it wouldn’t change behavior, and the main purpose is changing behavior. In fact it might be a good idea to offset the revenue attributable to a gas tax to a cut in payroll taxes as a means of mitigating the impact of the tax.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:45 pm)

    46 carcus3: You have to at least entertain the idea that the Volt (as we know it) may never see a nationwide rollout.

    Sadly, I think that becomes more and more likely.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (3:58 pm)

    James: Just about everyone in Washington D.C. on both sides of the aisle concurs: A gasoline tax is political suicide. Don’t look for any gasoline tax any time soon.

    That is the world we live in unfortunately. I think the only way they could sell it, is to make it tax nuetral by lowering income taxes and raising gas taxes. (or some variation of that)

    EDIT: didnt see your post at 113 DonC.. basically same thing i typed.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (4:12 pm)

    john1701a:
    The very definition of a niche!If the goal is to achieve mainstream appeal, effort to make the vehicle ubiquitous is required.You want it to become such a standard that it doesn’t stand out, quite the opposite of something in a group.  

    How do you explain ‘tuners’ that use plain-jane Civics for their base cars? Do they not ‘stand out’?

    / Zachary Taylor-Jackson has this ‘blogger’ pegged.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (4:35 pm)

    Michael: I know it’s a long shot, but what if Rob was trying to say, “we won’t just be nationwide by the end of 2011 . . . (takes off rose-colored glasses and puts them back in case)  

    Ahaaa! Now it makes sense :)


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (4:50 pm)

    Autocar test drives the LEAF

    “We remember smiling as we took our first corner, because the Leaf handles with surprising poise and purpose of mission. ”

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Nissan-Leaf-Leaf/250574/

    Read for yourself. Of course they touch on how the car looks in photo’s but say it looks much beter in person.

    Great news for real EV’s!!!….not good for the stinky EV’s.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (5:01 pm)

    According to the post, Mr DiSalle said about the timeframe for national volt rollout “That’s all still work in progress and will clearly be dependent on the ability of the production facility to ramp up as planned and all those kind of things,” said DiSalle. “Im not in a position to tell you by X-date we will be nationwide. I will tell you we’re heading towards national distribution and theres no question about it.”

    Claude Shannon taught us that information is received if the probability of something is changed by the statement we get. Is the probability of anything about the timeframe for national volt rollout changed by Mr. DiSalle’s statement? If not, it was words but not information.

    I’m sure Mr Disalle is a nice guy, but he never seems to have any information.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (5:10 pm)

    kdawg – (just add a $1.00 gas tax to nudge them the right way)

    If they impose a $1 per gal tax on gasoline it will nose dive our economy into a depression. How soon do we forget what $5 per gallon did to us two years ago? Everything is tied to petroleum..food prices skyrocketed, trucking companies went out of business, airlines had to double fair cost the cost for ALL goods and services rose etc…


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (5:13 pm)

    They should roll out the GM EV Spark on US shores….price it below the MIEV and LEAF and they will sell like hotcakes.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (5:16 pm)

    If GM rolls out 80 cars per state in the US, then technically they have made their “commitment” of a “Nation wide rollout”. That covers the first 4000 cars. So their done. Commitment made till the next year for another what 4K more cars. All while the rest of the world buys real EV’s.

    So everyone here can …..
    Just keep waiting, just keep waiting just keep waiting waiting waiting……
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmyUkm2qlhA


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (5:21 pm)

    James E: They should roll out the GM EV Spark on US shores….price it below the MIEV and LEAF and they will sell like hotcakes.

    PRECISELY!

    But unfortunately the great “T” pack is only 16KWh, you’ll need more than that for a 4 seater 100 mile range EV. The pack is pretty much “Stuffed” to the hilt. You can’t really add more, unless you go back to the drawing board and they won’t do that. Or, dumb down the performance, but too many need the wastefull power to hurry up and stop. Too much of your tax dollars invested into that highly “Proprietary” beast.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (5:33 pm)

    john1701a: If it creates a sense of exclusivity (think “smug”), then the effect is exactly the opposite… scaring away the mainstream. The curious typically don’t want any part of that.

    I wonder if Ammerican Exxpress recently filed for bankruptcy, Beverly Hills is a failed experiment of a community, BMWW’s are relics of the distant past and Roolex is a shunned brand name. Was the guy with the horses on his sport shirts forced to sell his mansion and the collection of classic cars?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:20 pm)

    RB: Sadly, I think that becomes more and more likely.

    The parallels to Two-Mode seem to confirm that rather well… especially the responses to me pushing to help prevent the repeat. Pointing out the pattern results in negative votes and a few non-constructive comments. Why is there so much resistance to acknowledgement of the past? No effort to change will lead to the same outcome.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:23 pm)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): arbitrary metrics.

    MPG

    Sales

    Profit


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (6:59 pm)

    john1701a:
    The parallels to Two-Mode seem to confirm that rather well… especially the responses to me pushing to help prevent the repeat.Pointing out the pattern results in negative votes and a few non-constructive comments.Why is there so much resistance to acknowledgement of the past?No effort to change will lead to the same outcome.  

    john1701a:
    MPGSalesProfit  

    John, it’s simple. This site is not dedicated to satisfying you. You don’t have all the answers, and GM is not going to magically “do the right thing,” either because of your pushing, or if we just manage to answer your questions to your satisfaction. Just get over it, and let us have a web site dedicated to the Volt specifically and EVs in general. This site is not only about trying to effect GM and it’s not about you!


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:00 pm)

    john1701a: Zachary Taylor (Jackson): arbitrary metrics.

    MPG
    Sales
    Profit

    For plug-ins, I believe MPG is an arbitrary metric. The real metric is Gallons Per Year. The idea is to replace gasoline use with electricity.

    Sales and profit are definitely relevant, but not initially. All new car designs need a couple of years to ramp up. For example, look at the Prius:
    Year …… Prius Sales (Worldwide)
    1997 …… 300
    1998 …… 17,700
    1999 …… 15,200
    2000 …… 19,500
    2001 …… 29,000
    2002 …… 28,100
    2003 …… 43,200
    2004 …… 125,700
    2005 …… 175,200
    2006 …… 185,600
    2007 …… 281,300

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:06 pm)

    Michael: This site is not only about trying to effect GM and it’s not about you!

    Vague responses like that make people wonder about purpose.

    What are the goals?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:23 pm)

    Noel Park: Corvette

    Your analysis is a good one, but with today’s world, you can add another ingredient. The ingredient is oil or the lack of it. The Corvette back then was not a needed car. But, with the Volt, the importance is of a much greater magnitude then the Corvette was back then. It is the new DNA of cars that’s going to start getting us off foreign oil. The future without a doubt will be electric cars. GM knows this and is not ready to quit on it. GM knows they are not running a gamble and GM wants to make it as perfect as it can for it’s debut.

    One has to understand people dislike changes. Read the book Future Shock by Alvin Toffler and it will give you a better understanding of what is to happen with the Volt.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:42 pm)

    Not really worried about how they roll out the VOLT… GM is doing it right .. rushing products has never been good… doing it right tiakes time.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (7:48 pm)

    AnonymousProxy: PRECISELY!But unfortunately the great “T” pack is only 16KWh, you’ll need more than that for a 4 seater 100 mile range EV. The pack is pretty much “Stuffed” to the hilt. You can’t really add more, unless you go back to the drawing board and they won’t do that. Or, dumb down the performance, but too many need the wastefull power to hurry up and stop. Too much of your tax dollars invested into that highly “Proprietary” beast.  (Quote)

    EV Spark will not be a T pack. Gm has more then T pack for there electric cars.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:03 pm)

    James E: If they impose a $1 per gal tax on gasoline it will nose dive our economy into a depression.

    That’s somewhat misguided for a number of reasons. First of all, you wouldn’t impose the tax immediately. It would phase in. So the immediate impact would be slight, although the benefits would be immediate since people would start changing their behaviors in anticipation of the tax. Second, if some taxes go up and some go down there is no net impact. What difference does it make to Joe’s or Jane’s spending if their paychecks go up by $50 a week and their gas costs go up by the same amount? Third, to the extent that the economy needs stimulus — and it probably does — the best stimulus is government spending. It has a much higher multiplier than cutting taxes.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:13 pm)

    john1701a: The parallels to Two-Mode seem to confirm that rather well…

    The Volt seems to have a two-mode or a version of it, according to the analyses on the forum.
    From a functional perspective it’s a good fit; from a cost perspective, maybe not so much.
    Two-mode is an elegant and versatile design, but bringing it into production at a competitive cost seems to be a challenge.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:18 pm)

    I guess I have a similar question as several others have had. Las Vegas is only an hour from the CA state line so do you have to live in CA or just buy it in CA? Is there home address policeman at the dealerships? Actually, I wish GM would just start that pre-order list and fill the orders no matter where they are, of course they would really have to ramp up quickly because they don’t believe we are serious. How many of there on Lyle’s list, isn’t it 50K plus?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:37 pm)

    If you were to purchase a Volt in one of the “Rollout” states then take it to another state, my guess is that GM would forcibly reprocess the car then crush it. Isn’t that SOP for GM? I was pretty much done with the Volt when they decided to pull E85 support. I don’t own anything with a sparkplug, and don’t really want to at this point. By the “End of 2011″ I will be done with internal combustion for that matter… $99 reservation is already in on a Leaf.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:49 pm)

    #104 James
    ……… – and I would think Chinese manufacturing would be much more financially profitable for GM – and then shipping those Volts here – is very appealing…….

    AAK! Before that post gets any more -1s, I have to edit my comment —- I meant Chinese production would be very appealing to GM both politically (over there), and, of course, profit-margin-wise.

    I in no way am endorsing such a fiasco – although if Volt does catch on, it would seem GM would produce Ampera in Europe and Buick Volt Suey in China.

    Build ‘em in America!!!

    RECHARGE!

    James

    IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME


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    Red HHR

     

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    Jun 21st, 2010 (8:59 pm)

    13 more days till “End Dependence Day” sigh, Could GM release a picture of a Red, and a White, and a Blue Volt? A nice pretty picture of some Volts? A picture that could be used as a desktop or a screen saver. It would be really nice if we could have a GM-Volt logo calendar or something on the picture also. A new picture every month.

    Just asking for a little something simple to appease us “Little People”


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:00 pm)

    RB: Two-mode is an elegant and versatile design, but bringing it into production at a competitive cost seems to be a challenge.

    The media wasn’t kind about that shortcoming for Two-Mode. Why allow them the opportunity if goals are elsewhere anyway?

    The claim of “not meeting expectations” is very easy if you don’t say what they are in the first place.

    Not preparing for the inevitable is unwise.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:06 pm)

    James E: kdawg – (just add a $1.00 gas tax to nudge them the right way)If they impose a $1 per gal tax on gasoline it will nose dive our economy into a depression. How soon do we forget what $5 per gallon did to us two years ago? Everything is tied to petroleum..food prices skyrocketed, trucking companies went out of business, airlines had to double fair cost the cost for ALL goods and services rose etc…  

    How about a two cent tax per gallon? Not much impact there. Should be OK?
    Not big enough to make a difference? Up it another two cents next month…
    Ah, come on now really… Then two more cents the month after that.
    See a pattern? Keep it going. Should have done it eight presidents ago.

    Cheers, one of the “Little People”


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:24 pm)

    john1701a:
    The media wasn’t kind about that shortcoming for Two-Mode.Why allow them the opportunity if goals are elsewhere anyway?The claim of “not meeting expectations” is very easy if you don’t say what they are in the first place.Not preparing for the inevitable is unwise.  

    What shortcoming?
    What opportunity?
    What goals?
    What expectations?
    What is inevitable?
    What is unwise?

    UR talking in circles and innuendo here. I guess that’s your FUD.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:32 pm)

    Red HHR:
    How about a two cent tax per gallon? Not much impact there. Should be OK?
    Not big enough to make a difference? Up it another two cents next month…
    Ah, come on now really… Then two more cents the month after that.
    See a pattern? Keep it going. Should have done it eight presidents ago.Cheers, one of the “Little People”  

    It should have been done a long time ago and done in small steps. $0.01 per month or every other month. Until it reaches a “tipping point” of success. But as stated in many of the above posts, it ain’t gonna happen. Dems & Repubs are bi-Partisan on this one! There is a point about trucking, airlines, farming etc. There is away around that. Target the tax to personal vehicles. My wife works for Wisconsin University System. When they take a school vehicle on business trip, they are issued a ID card tied to vehicle. They do have to go into the station to pay for gas, cashier runs through and presses a code. If accepted, the total subtracts state gas tax. You could have a system like that for long haul truckers and approved businesses. Like anything else you will have people successful at cheating the system and you will hear stories of how people get off with not paying the fuel tax. There are stories of people who have Diesel cars in Wisconsin and they use Home Heating Fuel #2. Many homes at one time had heating oil furnaces in there homes here. It was delivered to large tanks in the basement. Many homes have converted to Natural Gas, but the tanks remain in the basement. The rumor is that people with diesels will fill the tanks with tax exempt heating oil #2 which burns in diesel cars. They get a great discount. I don’t personally know anyone, but I have many friends with the perfect set up to do it.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:40 pm)

    speedy: EV Spark will not be a T pack. Gm has more then T pack for there electric cars.

    The lame packs in the 2 mode wannabe a hybrid’s don’t qualify for a battery pack for an EV.
    So far, there is no other pack GM has been working on for EV. None announced for EV production anyway.
    What a big waste of our tax dollars.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:41 pm)

    john1701a: Not preparing for the inevitable is unwise.  

    John, if you do not cry yourself to sleep nightly out of sheer embarrassment, you should immediately seek psychiatric help.

    Perhaps you can find a psychiatric help website.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:42 pm)

    kdawg: That is the world we live in unfortunately. I think the only way they could sell it, is to make it tax nuetral by lowering income taxes and raising gas taxes. (or some variation of that)EDIT: didnt see your post at 113 DonC.. basically same thing i typed.  (Quote)

    That’s OK but it should coincide with a raise in the minimum wage. The people most hurt by the gas tax won’t benefit or won’t benefit much from an income tax reduction. Of course, I’ld rather the funds be used to reduce the national debt and the tax be stepped in at a pace that people can adjust their gasoline consumption. If the idea is to reduce consumption then the tax is designed to fade away. It can’t replace other budgeted taxes. Paying down the debt is a use that keeps giving.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:43 pm)

    john1701a: The claim of “not meeting expectations” is very easy if you don’t say what they are in the first place.

    GM is best doing what they do best, “Over promise and under deliver”, 2 Mode anyone? You get a whole 4mpg more for thousands more. What idiot rolled that out? Probably the same Volt person.
    Dejavu!


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:45 pm)

    Zachary Taylor (Jackson): My prediction is that gm-volt.com will still be alive and thriving in 3 years, and that john1701a will still be snarking on it.  

    In 3 years, john1701a will either be gone due to the humiliation being proven wrong, wrong, wrong. However, if (and I don’t want this to happen) GM drops the ball, john will be happily snarking and serving us all a crow sandwich.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:45 pm)

    Red HHR:
    How about a two cent tax per gallon? Not much impact there. Should be OK?
    Not big enough to make a difference? Up it another two cents next month…
    Ah, come on now really… Then two more cents the month after that.
    See a pattern? Keep it going. Should have done it eight presidents ago.Cheers, one of the “Little People”  

    You’d think with the big oil spill and all the public outrage, it would be the perfect time to add on a gas tax without too much public backlash, if its touted right.

    Hey that reminds me, there was recently an auto-tech breakthrough where a car can now reliably run on water! Right now it only works with water from the Gulf of Mexico, but scientists think the technology is promising! ;) Okay, too soon to joke, I know.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:48 pm)

    It will be so expensive they can only roll it out in a few states. This is just to show everyone that
    GM can go GREE!


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (9:49 pm)

    pjkPA: Not really worried about how they roll out the VOLT… GM is doing it right .. rushing products has never been good… doing it right tiakes time.

    lol……
    4k the first year, 4k the next and Nissan to flood over 40K and by the time GM ramps up in 2012 Mitsubishi will flood the market with more to about 40K all while GM “Ramps up”. And what are they marketing? A lame product dependent on foreign oil all to please you lame “Range anxiety” mentals. On top of that, GM will STILL be trying to decide on a price that “depends on the current price of gas”. And your supporting this company that will sell the volt for a loss that is on “Corporate Tax funded welfare”.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:17 pm)

    Desertdude: It will be so expensive they can only roll it out in a few states. This is just to show everyone that
    GM can go GREE!

    HA!
    That’s exactly what their doing. Greenwash! Sell some green product, look green and earn credits so they can sell their sheik/prince goo suckling gas guzzling SUV’s. They have their ulterior motive. Open your eyes people!


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:26 pm)

    jeffhre: I wonder if Ammerican Exxpress recently filed for bankruptcy, Beverly Hills is a failed experiment of a community, BMWW’s are relics of the distant past and Roolex is a shunned brand name. Was the guy with the horses on his sport shirts forced to sell his mansion and the collection of classic cars?  (Quote)

    Jay Leno has a line of shirts? :)


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:54 pm)

    merlin: Off topic. Where is Tagamet? I haven’t seen a Tag post in what seems like a week?

    He’s not feeling well enough to put up with trollish nonsense. :-(


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (10:58 pm)

    James E: If they impose a $1 per gal tax on gasoline it will nose dive our economy into a depression. How soon do we forget what $5 per gallon did to us two years ago? Everything is tied to petroleum..food prices skyrocketed, trucking companies went out of business, airlines had to double fair cost the cost for ALL goods and services rose etc…

    I’m not sure how a gas tax would affect airlines since I was talking about auto fuel. And the tax debate you bring up is typical one, where opponents say “everything will cost more”. I usually offer the idea of giving an exception to semi-trucks or other large work vehicles, busses, etc. The tax is more to curb the habits of individual drivers and their purchases. I think your use of the word “depression” is overboard. As I recall, what $5 gallon gas did 2 years ago was cause everyone to run out and buy Prius’s/mopeds/etc and also drive a lot less, both positive results. We are already paying $10/gallon for gas, just indirectly. I want to remove the indirect taxes, and install a direct tax on the gas. That is the only way we are going to change people’s actions.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:03 pm)

    Michael: He’s not feeling well enough to put up with trollish nonsense.

    Truth hurts don’t it. But keep turning a blind eye on the truth and keep your rosy glasses on if that’s what keeps you all happy. Meanwhile real EV’s will proliferate and GM will keep building a supposed green product that keeps you addicted to the very thing you want to get off of.


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:19 pm)

    SAVE GM-VOLT.COM

    – How To Return GM-Volt.com To The Great Site It Once Was –

    I once led a web chatroom back in the old days of the net – Everything was new, and we had to learn how to deal with invading individuals who would try to hijack, disrupt, insult and just plain cheapen our site and the work we felt was important to us in it.

    What we learned over time was to plain ignore troublemakers. Not to engage in their inane, pre-meditated barbs designed to instigate arguments. We learned that you could identify them quite quickly even when they entered the room due to their ego’s penchant to ID themselves with sophomoric screennames such as Etchin Mc Crotch, or SuckinEggz, or whatever….. And also, obviously by their lack of respect, manners and just plain common sense.

    Evidently over the weeks and months this has been getting worse and worse here at gm-volt, many here are not experienced at the discipline it takes to rid a site of these characters who, for some nuerotic need they have for attention – aim to ruin a site and they often succeed.

    By ignoring these fellows – I mean, do not take the bait when they intentionally tick you off with idiotic statements designed just to do so.

    Don’t call them “trolls” or idiots or any name whatsoever – You see, that is attention, and that is what these poor souls lack in real life. It’s what they’re feeding off of in the cyber world. These guys can’t stand it when a message board, a chat room, or a website runs smoothly with different participants acting in a civil, polite manner even when they disagree. To them, that is just a website ripe to ruin.

    So please, gm-volt regulars – please turn over a new leaf, and share these insights with others. I hope you’ve noticed these interlopers have multiplied, gotten several IDs per person and just plain started running this once respectful site down to their level. Just ignore them. And what that means is just plain act as if every time you hear their inane drivel – their ignorant rants, their dirty, teenaged potty humor IDs – just move on …..This means no -10s, no arguments, no acknowledging they exist. Just move on, conversate with the civil, polite, logical participants and when you see someone get sucked into a “debate” with a moron – sucked into their little trap – Just write them a quick note with this “how-to” and move on….Believe me, in one or two weeks this site will be free from those people some here refer to as “trolls”.

    I’ve been meaning to convey this for some time – I hoped I didn’t have to, but mostly these thread hijackers show up in the mid-day to evening here, and lately they’ve begun to literally ruin Lyle’s otherwise fun and eductational forum.

    Cheers,

    RECHARGE and LEARN TO IGNORE THE RIFF RAFF.

    James


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:22 pm)

    ClarksonCote: Hey that reminds me, there was recently an auto-tech breakthrough where a car can now reliably run on water! Right now it only works with water from the Gulf of Mexico, but scientists think the technology is promising! Okay, too soon to joke, I know.

    Or water infused with natural gas
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYJj-1jNOxE


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:24 pm)

    Echin McCrotch:
    Truth hurts don’t it. But keep turning a blind eye on the truth and keep your rosy glasses on if that’s what keeps you all happy. Meanwhile real EV’s will proliferate and GM will keep building a supposed green product that keeps you addicted to the very thing you want to get off of.  

    And you are accomplishing exactly what? Oh, that’s right make us all unhappy. Glad that makes you happy. Really guy, you aren’t accomplishing anything positive. Your high and mighty rhetoric that says your motives are pure and you’re better than anyone that came to this site to learn about and consider the Volt is keeping everyone from even considering anything you have to say. And yet you keep saying it, tearing down anything and anyone that doesn’t totally agree with you. Your “truth” doesn’t hurt, but your tone and manner and repetition does tend to make people sick. How can you honestly feel good about what you do?


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:31 pm)

    James: So please, gm-volt regulars – please turn over a new leaf, and share these insights with others. I hope you’ve noticed these interlopers have multiplied, gotten several IDs per person and just plain started running this once respectful site down to their level. Just ignore them.

    I’m sorry, I was just releasing frustration pent up for too long. It actually made me angry when I got such a response to a serious comment about our friend Tag. I’ll stop now.

    Be Well,
    Michael


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    Jun 21st, 2010 (11:51 pm)

    AnonymousProxy: speedy: EV Spark will not be a T pack. Gm has more then T pack for there electric cars.

    The lame packs in the 2 mode wannabe a hybrid’s don’t qualify for a battery pack for an EV.
    So far, there is no other pack GM has been working on for EV. None announced for EV production anyway.
    What a big waste of our tax dollars.

    I asked the T-pack question back in Aug ’09. Below is Greg Cesiel’s (Senior Staff Engineer in charge of Global Energy Storage Collaboration) response.
    ———————–
    Kdawg,

    The T shaped battery works well for the Volt but I would not assume future plug in vehicles will all have T shaped batteries. We already have an example that does not have a T shaped battery. It is the just announced Buick Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) that will use the same battery technology as the Volt. In the Buick the battery is in a rectangular configuration and the vehicle has seating for five.

    Greg


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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (12:01 am)

    Red HHR: 13 more days till “End Dependence Day” sigh, Could GM release a picture of a Red, and a White, and a Blue Volt? A nice pretty picture of some Volts? A picture that could be used as a desktop or a screen saver. It would be really nice if we could have a GM-Volt logo calendar or something on the picture also. A new picture every month.

    Sort of like what Google does. Maybe after everyone is driving their Volts, photos can be submitted to be updated daily. How about a “End Dependence Day” photo/image competition?

    Here’s some wallpaper for you.
    http://wallpapercars.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/chevrolet-volt_2011_1024x768_wallpaper_01.jpg

    or

    http://www.netcarshow.com/chevrolet/2011-volt/800×600/wallpaper_16.htm


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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (12:03 am)

    Michael: And yet you keep saying it, tearing down anything and anyone that doesn’t totally agree with you.

    And yet you and all here tear down the very thing, a real EV, and say it will even cause you to burn even more gas, thus the volt is better? You all do this on a daily basis and my sporadic existence to reveal the “Truth” of the the Volt is just Trolleneese?
    Hypocrites!
    The constant demeanor to put down a real EV isn’t any better. Some just see the truth more clearer than all of you with your Rosy GM/volt glasses.


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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (12:11 am)

    James: SAVE GM-VOLT.COM – How To Return GM-Volt.com To The Great Site It Once Was – Just move on, conversate with the civil, polite, logical participants and when you see someone get sucked into a “debate” with a moron – sucked into their little trap – Just write them a quick note with this “how-to” and move on….Believe me, in one or two weeks this site will be free from those people some here refer to as “trolls”.I’ve been meaning to convey this for some time – I hoped I didn’t have to, but mostly these thread hijackers show up in the mid-day to evening here, and lately they’ve begun to literally ruin Lyle’s otherwise fun and eductational forum.Cheers,RECHARGE and LEARN TO IGNORE THE RIFF RAFF.James  

    You are correct. I believe interested readers are using this technique more and more. :+}


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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (12:19 am)

    kdawg:
    I asked the T-pack question back in Aug ‘09. Below is Greg Cesiel’s (Senior Staff Engineer in charge of Global Energy Storage Collaboration) response.
    ———————–
    Kdawg,The T shaped battery works well for the Volt but I would not assume future plug in vehicles will all have T shaped batteries. We already have an example that does not have a T shaped battery. It is the just announced Buick Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) that will use the same battery technology as the Volt. In the Buick the battery is in a rectangular configuration and the vehicle has seating for five.Greg  

    Is the hybrid Buick still in the works?

    This is the first comment I have read about here.

    I read one of the August 2009 articles about it.

    Here is the WSJ article links and a quote about the Buick and the VOLT

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124956408424610951.html

    “The Buick hybrid is expected to achieve in excess of 40 miles per gallon of gas, double the performance of a similarly sized model such as the Chevy Equinox in city driving.

    The Volt, because it is supposed to drive up to 40 miles on battery power alone before the gas engine helps out, is expected to travel about 1,000 miles on a tank of gas.”


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    Matthew B

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (1:03 am)

    kdawg: I usually offer the idea of giving an exception to semi-trucks or other large work vehicles, busses, etc.

    Heck no! Get the interstate freight off the semi trucks and onto trains that burn only 1/5 the fuel to do the same job.


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    JoJo from the Boz Scaggs song

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (4:25 am)

    It’s 5:24 a.m.! Where’s my new article!!! Just kidding.


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    Roy H

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (7:01 am)

    JohnK: You know, it sure does seem like GM just CAN’T make Volts in high volume.Now, they certainly can make cars in high volume, so how is the Volt different?Is it a component that they cannot get in enough volume?It is not the battery.The battery plant is GM and capable of 50,000 per year right this minute, more if needed.Is it the traction motor?Is it the generator.Is it the “modified 2-mode transmission”?Seems unlikely.What a mystery.  

    The Michigan battery manufacturing plant is NOT finished yet, not due to come on line until early 2012, this is when they talk about full production. I would have thought they could buy more from LG Chem’s Korean plant, but who knows what contract they signed. It is the battery pack assembly plant that is fully functional now.


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    Roy H

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (7:08 am)

    Eco_Turbo: The thought of shipping those ‘new to the market’ Volts overseas must scare the heck out of GM. If I were them, I’d sell all Volts in the US for the first couple of years or so. Remember this car has to be absolutely, positively “perfect”the first time.  

    Yes, this does seem to be an odd policy. They seem to be anxious to prove that this is a “world” car, but traditionally any new product is marketed locally at least a year before going international. I think they want to test the demand in these other markets as early as possible with the long term plan of building more assembly capability world wide.


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    Roy H

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (7:14 am)

    John W (Tampa): How much do you guys think 8kws of Lead Acid batteries would cost if I put up a solar array for my Volt.  

    Why? Do you live off grid? You need an inverter to create 120/240v anyway and if you get a model that connects to your existing hydro, you don’t need any batteries at all.


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    Roy H

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (7:18 am)

    Starcast: Question: If demand in the first 2 states + DC is more then GM can make why open it up nationwide??I think demand will be more then enough for the first 2 years in just these 3 places.This is easy for me to say I live in Michigan. But honestly if you could sell all you can build just in the state the car is built in and TV land and to your bosses people in DC why waste the money to sell it nation wide?  

    Mostly because you will po everyone else. If GM wants to they can make 5k Volts or more per month, I think you over estimate demand.


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    Roy H

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (7:27 am)

    Van: “The Volt is still on schedule to being production for retail customers in November of 2010,” said Posawatz. “First customers in our published launch regions should receive cars before the end of the year. Those launch regions are California, Michiganand greater Washington D.C. area.”I did not read all of the comments so if this is redundant, sorry.Just what does “being production” mean?Is it a typo for “beginning production.”We have been all through this before, where in one statement GM seems to say start of production in November 2010, and another spokesman says cars will be in the showrooms in the initial rollout areas in November.I have long feared those who say production had the story right.So the Volt will not hit the showrooms and be available for sale in November, but instead “before the end of the year.”So this article seems to say our expectations for initial retail sale in November should be adjusted to end of December, and our expectation for the car to be available in all markets by the end of 2011 is also overly optimistic.I keep saying go Volt and floor it GM, and GM keeps appearing to dither while the completion charges full speed ahead.Anybody read it differently?  

    We all know they are building production cars now, although these cars are not for sale. However there will be no change when the green light is given to make cars for sale, they will just say after this date. I believe they have said the cars will be in the show rooms of Chevy dealers on November 10.


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    Eco

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (8:23 am)

    EVNow: Let me guess, they assumed the batteries would “continue to cost $1000/kwh” by that time.  (Quote)

    Actually, no. The article never compared battery component cost. It pointed out that the use of platinum is dropping because of alloying techniques. Thanks to nano-scale alloying techniques, fuel cells will use far fewer grams than previously possible.


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    ClarksonCote

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (9:54 am)

    kdawg: Or water infused with natural gashttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYJj-1jNOxE  (Quote)

    Very nice!


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    Noel Park

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (10:22 am)

    kdawg: Or water infused with natural gas

    #157

    Did anyone else see the HBO film last night on “fracking”? They showed numerous examples of just this phenomenon. Maybe natural gas isn’t the magic answer after all. Mr. Pickens, among dozens of others, declined to be interviewed.


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    Faisal Shahzad from Talibanistan

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (3:00 pm)

    Volt is the best bang for our buck. Only the Volt covers our funding now an in the future. Today you buy oil, tomorrow you will buy foreign lithium from our supporting country Afghanistan.
    So please buy only the Volt because we will benefit twice.
    Do not buy the leaf because we will not benefit today and it does not use oil products.

    Buy volt, you need to be able to go farther than the other car and keep our funding investors full.

    Yes volt!


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    detfan

     

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    Jun 22nd, 2010 (4:48 pm)

    You know, nationwide doesn’t mean the Volt won’t be marketed in several new states over the course of 2011. It just means at the pace they are willing to produce them, it will take time to have a Volt in every state, or nationwide, so to speak. I’m hoping Florida will be one of the first 2011 States that the Volt becomes available, of course.


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    dsmwookie

     

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    Jun 23rd, 2010 (2:56 pm)

    Take into consideration this is a new vehicle and mechanics have to be trained specifically for this vehicle. If you start with a small market that means less training, and it will help refine the training process itself. Problems are inevitable with any vehicle and having the proper support is crucial during circumstances like this.

    Go Volt!


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    MO

     

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    Jun 25th, 2010 (4:58 pm)

    Eco_Turbo: neutron said:If it is strong and for GM, as a for profit company, the choice should be easy… ramp up production and make money. Are you forgetting GM is 61% government owned?  (Quote)

    Are you suggesting that the government is non-profit? Look how much those guys make. Look how much of your income they take.