It is no secret that the Mitsubishi i-MiEV has had a special place in my heart. Five years ago it re-introduced me to the notion that someday I could actually own my own electric car; a thought that had died after seeing the death of GM’s EV1, and Toyota’s RAV4 EV earlier in the decade.
Since then however, GM and Nissan have taken back the spotlight from this little Japanese jellybean, by bringing larger/faster and quite frankly, more practical examples of what a electric car should be, leaving Mitsu only two options. Build something better, or build it cheaper.
As the original mass produced electric car, and with no competition, the i-MiEV went on sale in Japan at a fairly pricey ¥4.6M (before incentives), that was until Nissan undercut that price with the LEAF this past April, forcing Mitsu to bring their price down to ¥3.97M, which translates to about $31,500 USD after government incentives (¥2.85M)
Since that time, Mitsubishi Motors North America decided that their diminutive, 80 mile/100 mile (EU combined mode/Japan 10-15 mode) kei car would be a good fit for the US and Canada, with a North American release this coming April.
As for the NA price, while at the New York auto show, Maurice Durand (MMNA spokesman) said, “…we’re targeting sub-$30,000 for the U.S. when it launches,” before federal tax credits, which would make the Mitsu the most affordable EV on the market for 2011.
Then this past Friday, Mitsubishi further stirred the pot regarding the pricing of their electric car, as they announced they aim to reduce the price of the i-MiEV by about 30% to around 2 million yen ($22,000) after rebates in Japan by 2012.
Mitsubishi said this significant drop will be a factor of two major changes in the production process. In April of 2012, a new battery plant will be coming online capable of producing 70,000 of the i-MiEV’s 16kWh packs per year, reducing costs by over 60%. As well, Mitsu will be working with suppliers of motors, rechargers, etc. to reduce component numbers, making volume production easier. At the same time, they also looking to increase the automated processes to about 10 percent, up from 2 percent currently.
The i-MiEV was first launched to fleet customers in Japan in July of 2009, and retail sales began April 1st, 2010. Future sales begin in Australia next month, and start in the UK in January of 2011.
+17
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:16 am)Wahooo! More affordable EVs to come!
Go EV!!!
+6
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:20 am)If the price in California is about $22,000 and you apply the $7500 fed and $5000 state tax breaks, the price drops to less than $10,000. Not too shabby!
-10
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:28 am)(click to show comment)
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:30 am)Same in Georgia.
-25
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:32 am)(click to show comment)
+9
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:35 am)Now that’s affordable. I hope that the Volt is not too more expensive and I can afford to buy the American product. No matter what I still want an electric and will not buy another gas powered car.
Even is it looks like a jellybean, it would meet my needs.
Take Care,
TED
+4
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:54 am)Maybe you could even throw in special EV energy star rateed windows, and get 30% off the cost of the Energy Star rated windows? Does the window rebate specifically state it is for a house?
Just thinkin’ out of the box a little….ok where did I put that box, I gotta get back in quick!
+5
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:04 am)This is going to be an excellent second or third car for a lot of Americans. 20-30% (or more?) of Americans probably have a primary car for long distance days and a daily commute that is less than 50 miles roundtrip, which is about all you would be able to rely on in this car on a cold day. If the I-MiEV comes in sub-$30k and the Leaf is just over $30k MSRP, even though they are not direct competition for the Volt it will increase the pressure on GM to bring in their MSRP below $37.5k, and $35k is looking like it could be a ceiling for the Volt MSRP, not the floor. IF GM wants to sell a lot of Volts, which is something that we really don’t know. It isn’t like they can sell them at a loss, either, but it is just about impossible to tell what the true cost to build each Volt will be.
+3
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:20 am)I always thought that the iMiEV was seriously over priced. I also thought that Mitsubishi would simply drop the car when sales fell, but I am pleased to hear that I was wrong. This will be the first truly low cost EV on the market as Th!nk City and WheeGo are in the same price range as the LEAF and I think too high for their capacity/performance.
+18
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:24 am)Poor – Not really, everyone in my town makes $50,000 on up. Blue Collar mill workers with OT are at $70K
Cheap gas – It’s in our Constitution (look it up)
Fat – Golden Coral has an amazing all you can eat buffet for on $8.99. Can’t pass that up.
Trucks – Gotta haul my grass clippings to the down to the town compost site every other week in summer. If only they would pick them up for me!
Spoiled – NO, I have to take my own clippings to the to the town compost!!! I am not spoiled!!
90% Short Commutes – We for me it is 70% sir. The other 30% is travelling on weekends form North-East Wisconsin over 300 – 400 miles (round trip) to attend Chicago Cubs games or maybe off to Boundary waters for canoe trips on the pristine border with Canada.
Hypocrites? I don’t think you know what it means. We enjoy our lifestyle because it is our duty under our Constitution. It is not hypocritical to enjoy our lives.
Oh and Hummers… Even you Pat, must enjoy a good Hummer. I know I do! LOL
+5
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:30 am)Pretty sure that $22,000 is with the subsidies factored in.
/the news is good, but it’s not THAT good (yet)
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/06/report-mitsubishi-planning-2m-us22k-ev-by-fy-2012.html#more
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:31 am)This is great news.
If they can get the 2012 US price anywhere close to the $22,000 Japan price target it will have solid interest here in North America. With the $7500 Tax Credit bringing it to around $15,000, this would be a no brainer purchase. It could be my work commute car – 5 days a week.
Note: The iMiEV has Level 3 Fast Charging. Mitsubishi has been working closely with TEPCO.
Here’s a recent test drive report……
http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/electric-vehicles/charging-electric-vehicles/mitsubishi-imiev-electric-car-test-drive/
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:47 am)Teen-aged driver–here comes one more electronic device to stimulate your world.
Both the design, and the range cry out for the younger driver, and now, the price is affordable for many middle to upper middle class parents who subsidize Jane and/or Jack’s first set of wheels.
Throw in their affinity for all things electronic and the future, as they say, is now.
(Dare I point out the similarity in its name, with an emphasis on the ‘i’ to a certain fruit-based company that sells ‘i’ phones, pods and pads–quite successfully, I might add?)
+6
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:58 am)i-MiEV is currently ¥3.97M.
x 0.0110 (exchange rate) = $43,670
30% of that = $13,101
$43,670 – $13,101 = $30,569
Now, figure in your credits or rebates or whatever you want to call them.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:58 am)I am not American, and I will never buy such small car.
First, I am just too big for it. It’s a women-mobile.
Second, it is dangerous to drive such babyish car on a road, filled with SUV’s.
+4
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:00 am)Sounds like we’re on the same page here. When the i-MiEV first came along was very interested in getting more information. That is until the price was revealed. Overpricing the car was not a good tactical decision by Mitsubishi. Time has shown that people are willing to buy Insights and Prius for 23k-28k. Nissan will sell all the post Federal credit Leaf they can manufacture at 26k each. The Volt will do well at $29k.
=D-Volt
+6
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:03 am)Interesting topic, Statik! Ernst & Young, a 144,000 employee multinational company, recently published a study that makes it seem likely Mitsubishi will sell all the EVs they bring to North America: “Global demand for electric cars could outweigh near-term supply”.
In this June 16 study, E&Y say nearly 7% of all respondents globally indicated they would definitely consider buying a PHEV or EV. Applying each market’s percentage of those who said they would definitely buy to the number of registered drivers in each region results in a potential early adopter group of approximately 50 million drivers globally, over half of which are in China.
Commenting on the findings, Mike Hanley, Ernst & Young Global Automotive Leader, said, “As the survey suggests, PHEVs and EVs have an opportunity to make a significant entrance into the global automotive market over the next few years. Even if only a small portion of survey respondents who said they would definitely consider one of these vehicles are serious, there would still be more than enough demand to sell out the estimated 2010 and 2011 production runs of the major and new vehicle manufacturers.”
Mitsubishi & Nissan seem to have similar expectations; GM, are you paying attention?!?
Ref: http://www.ey.com/US/en/Newsroom/News-releases/Global-demand-for-electric-cars
+6
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:03 am)GM had the early lead and what seemed to be a clear field ahead, but now that Nissan and Mitsu have come into the race there may get there “first-est with the most-est”, making it much harder for the Volt to get breathing room. That’s especially true in the USA if gm limits its focus to just 3 markets while Nissan and Mitsu follow a national strategy.
All of a sudden, it is an exciting time for all of us interested in electric cars.
+5
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:06 am)The high-school fleet flows round and round the parking lot at 19 mph with jet-plane sounds everywhere. I love it
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:11 am)I don’t know if it will ever compete all that well with the Leaf and other EVs. Probably about as well as a Smart car competes with a Civic or something. Mitsu should take their lead that they got and build an all electric Lancer or something. It’s probably too late now anyway. They were enjoying charging $40,000 for a jelly bean so much that they forgot that some day their day to make hay would be over.
+3
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:16 am)Just more used batteries and project cars available when people trade them in on Volts in a couple of years or so.
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:19 am)An electric car at a great price will bring interesting competition. Both Nissan and iMiEV will fill needs for commuting. The VOLT will do that and more. :+}
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:26 am)Dave, if a Volt can be had for $29k, I’ll be all over that like stink on a snuffle-hound’s nose!!
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:28 am)I predict this will be a failed car in the American market. Or a niche player at best. It looks uncomfortable for all but the shortest trips. And “range anxiety” comes as standard equipment.
And of course, as anyone on this website knows by now, it is the Chevrolet Volt, with its extended-range capabilities, that will really change the world of motoring as we know it. The Volt will not have to be an EXTRA car. It is not a plaything for the environmentally conscious. It can pull full duties as an all-around sedan for any travel – near or far – and at any time, without worries about running out of battery power.
78% of Americans drive less than 40 miles a day. The Volt will meet their needs with all-electric driving, and then be able to go another 300 miles, if needed, until the next charge.
The Volt is the future of driving in America. And hopefully the World.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:30 am)Others are joining in as well. BMW and VW have interesting electric vehicles on the drawing board.
=D-Volt
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:33 am)That’s the best they can do with 5 years experience making the thing? Not so impressive.
+5
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:37 am)The rebate in Japan is actually ¥1,140,000, which is about $12,500 if you want to do that math. However, like all cars you can’t do a simple currency exchange to get what a landed price is in another county.
The other factor is that the i-MiEV price (and the Nissan LEAF as well) in Japan is set to what the market will bear after the allowance for the government rebate, the same as cars are priced here considering the US government incentive programs. You have to allow for the extra $5,000 worth of incentives in Japan…as well the price consumers are willing to pay in their repective markets.
If there was no government rebate the car would not retail at ¥3.97M in Japan. Rebates are really to the benefit of the manufacturer, not the consumer, to build these types of cars for the ‘greater good’….with the hope that when the rebates expire the public’s desire for the car will be very high, and the hope that with the economy of scale and the advancement of the tech, auto makers can then bring them to market at a reasonable price without incentive to satisfy that demand.
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:47 am)The BP Gulf disaster is adding to the percentage gain as well. For many, the spill is the last straw.
=D-Volt
+6
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:53 am)My local Chevy dealer told me, yesterday, that we will be pleasantly surprised at the price of the Volt when is is announced around this September. He is hearing that it will be closer to $30,000 before any rebates. I hope that he is right.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:02 am)Now we’re talkin’….. this BEV makes perfect sense as a second car with the Volt as the primary car, assuming Mitsu prices it clearly below the LEAF. Unlike the LEAF which is too close to the Volt in size, the i-MiEV offers some useful parking and maneuverability advantages. It would complement the Volt rather than try to duplicate it.
Of course, no BEV can duplicate the Volt. This little Mitsu BEV exposes the LEAF as being too expensive for what it cannot do. I won’t be surprised in a couple of years to see the electric car market settle out to where the BEVs that sell are ultra-compact and at the lower end of the price scale, with volume sales at the upper price levels being dominated by EREV’s like the Volt, with its more traditional size and range capabilities. The LEAF falls into neither category, and I anticipate it will fade away.
+4
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:03 am)I like the design of the i-Miev because you get a lot of room for a small envelope, but the battery pack is too small. 16 kWh is fine for the Volt but not for a BEV in North America. The Leaf has a 24 kWh pack, which is probably marginal. More like it, the Coda has a 35 kWh pack and the Mini-E has a 35 kWh pack. For places where the realistic drive cycle the i-Miev could work well. NA is an entirely different story.
I’d love for you to be right but we have a great capacity for not doing anything because we don’t want to pay for the change. Here’s Jon Stewart this week on the subject (very funny BTW):
http://www.pickensplan.com/news/2010/06/17/jon-stewart-on-failed-energy-leadership/
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:06 am)Just imagine the UPS you could build with the old battery pack….
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:28 am)I suspect that the advancements and refinements and the far greater value of Volt has the competition realizing the lower values of what they are offering.
+3
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:52 am)I’m still waiting for something to compete with the Volt.
By competition, I mean a car that:
• runs on gas or electricity
• has at least 30 miles all-electric range
• is built by a major car maker
• is real, not just a concept or prototype
The lack of any competition is a bad thing. People will ask: “If this is such a good thing, why isn’t anyone else making them?” Competition validates the market. So the lack of competition will actually hurt Volt sales over time.
As for pure BEVs, I believe these will remain a niche product for many years. Early adopters will gobble them up initially, but after that, demand will fall off quickly. There are just too many issues with pure BEVs.
What’s more, most BEV proponents say they will use their other car for longer trips, and since the other car typically doesn’t get 50 MPG, this solution will probably end up using more gas than the Volt.
We need more EREVs on the market!
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:53 am)I’ve been a fan of the Volt and this site for as long as this site has been around. But some of you are drinking from your own koolaid containers!
I have ordered a Leaf and will be having my site assessment for my charger in a short 12 days. If i had to guess i will be taking delivery of my Leaf sometime between December and January. When will i get a Volt again?
I will be paying less for the Leaf than i would pay for a similarly spec-ed Honda Civic, and i will be saving over $100 a month in gas at a price of $3 a gallon. How much will i save on a Volt. Oh yeah, i forgot, they STILL have not announced a price. And you can guarantee it will be at least $5k more than the Leaf. So, why would a normal person with two cars and an basic ability to do math NOT buy a Leaf? Tell me again???
My family of four owns 2 cars – a minivan and a bitchin BMW 540i Wagon that goes 0-60 in 5.5 seconds using a gas-guzzling V8 engine. I drive to work and back mostly on the freeway, exactly 37 miles round trip. Occasionally i take a side trip. So far my mileage has not gone over 60 miles in a day – someting the leaf can handle, even with the AC on! We drive one car on the weekend, and occasionally need the second one for a short trip. In other words i can replace the BMW with a Leaf and never suffer from “range anxiety” – which is very much overstated on this site.
I personally am interested in a Leaf for two reasons – reducing my monthly costs (gas and maintenance) and weaning myself off oil products as much as is possible without getting too crazy. I think most Americans are in the same boat i am if asked, and as long as they don’t have to pony up $40k for a $20k car to do it, they’re gonna do it.
All in all i think the Leaf is gonna sell like hot cakes for several years, and i think the Volt is going to have a hard time competing – unless they price it very close to the Leaf.
+9
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:55 am)Slow day huh? I really have nothing to add of any importance today. So I guess I’ll use my comment to again thank Lyle for starting this site and keeping it going. I doubt I’d be as into the Volt if it weren’t for your work. Good Job Man.
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:55 am)The iMiEV is certainly a distinctive shape. I’m sure there is a subset of the population who will just love them – just as there are some people who actually love the shape of a VW Beetle…
Bring it on!
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:01 am)I really agree that all electric cars will sell out, but also for the ever-increasing reason that the Gulf oil spill, which crude is literally loaded with long-lasting carcinogens contaminating up the food chain, represents the hazard of only one oil well.
There are 5,000 more of these to my understanding. Many are quite old. All the safety equipment is located in very high pressure depths of something like 6,000 psi if I am not mistaken.
That pressure of corrosive sea water may, it would seem to me, may possibly penetrate the aging seals and enter working mechanisms, locking more of them open until it is found out way too late that they may not work.
How many more of these catastrophic events would it take to poison the entire planet, given the vast poisoning that has already occurred with this one event? Five? Twenty?
This is a really extremely serious situation that the American Enterprise Institute (a plug-in scoffer) (easy-money oil investors likely) had just yesterday swept under the rug by just saying “we need to make it more safe”, in one overly-casual sentence. (No kidding, buddy).
Electrics very likely will be the requisite social mandate of our time, starting in Japan, since Japan relies the most on safe seafood. (And you thought mercury in tuna was bad.)
Our allowance for petroleum-technical-arrogance has got to come to a halt PDQ.
Politicizing in any way, any obstruction to any assisted effort toward the quick and expeditious, full conversion over to electric motoring ought to be met with strong and thoughtful critique.
(Sometimes, the framing of the thoughtfulness takes a few days to compose, but we ought to go back to the under-informed/outdated other opinion, and thoughtfully respond anyway, just in case the response might find its way for updating.)
-5
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:05 am)That’s not actually the case. The survey repeatedly stated here only had a sampling of 1,000 drivers… and it was from an uncertain source.
The survey conducted by Argonne is an entirely different matter. They collected information from 84,000 drivers. Turns out, the “40 mile” quantity is really only 62%.
Knowing that, factor in the reality that winter driving reduces range quite a bit due to the need to run the heater for warmth and the compressor for defrosting. What percentage does that cover?
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:11 am)On Wednesday, Ford announced their intent to deliver exactly that.
How come price isn’t included in the criteria?
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:15 am)Five months ago, GM’s CEO personally told Lyle that the Volt would sell in the low 30s, which would make it around $25k after the tax credit:
http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/27/gm-ceo-ed-whitacre-is-a-strong-fan-of-the-volt/
“Though various bloggers quoting GM spokespeople have attempted to refute Mr. Whitacre’s comment to me about the Volt selling in the low 30s, I still stand by his statement. None of the naysayers were present for the call nor spent time in GM’s boardroom. The $7500 tax credit was not mentioned or inferred. Of course, we’ll have to wait until summer to see for sure.”
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:19 am)I think all electrics will sell out, especially due to the increasing realizations of the dangers of deep well crude sources. The carcinogens in all that crude will remain for a long time. There are 5,000 or more of these sorts of wells to my understanding. Many are old? The operating depths may have corrosive seawater pressures of 6,000 psi, and, if seals are breached, then will the approved safety mechanisms work if they are corroded in place? How many of the remaining ones have the same problems? How many more of these events can be tolerated? Five? Twenty? None?
On TV yesterday, someone from the American Enterprise Institute casually scoffed at electrics and plug-ins, and also casually said regarding the wells: “We have to make them safer”.
(No kidding, buddy).
Japan relies upon seafood as a large part of their diet more than most nations. I’d believe that electrics would be appreciated there for the reason of not relying upon the deep water drilling of petroleum, as has had America. Deep water drilling had been a deal with the devil, and now we are all paying the price for it far, far, far beyond “provable” and “legitimate” (according to whose definitions?) costs. (Regulation? Who needs that? Our future now clearly apparently had required it.) Deregulation was no friend of ours, just the profiteers.
Of course all electrics will sell out, so I really agree with that, nasaman.
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:21 am)Excellent! Do you have any links?
Good point. Most people won’t buy it if its too expensive. That would include me.
+4
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:21 am)First, I don’t think most Americans own BMWs, nor will be able to or even accept to spend $25-30K for a car like the LEAF that has them making changes to their driving and car owning habits.
As for the Volt costing $5K more than the LEAF, so what – people like you easily spend far more than that just to have a BMW badge instead of a VW badge on the hood….. and then pack on that much more on optional extras and upgrades over and above a car’s base price. Please justify that before complaining about a Volt (possibly) costing thousands more than a LEAF.
Considering the Volt will allow as much driving range as a typical, average buyer expects yet allows them the very unique and desirable ability to use as little to no gas as they can, a $5K upcharge over a car with the limitations had by the LEAF isn’t that large, IMHO. Do enjoy your LEAF, however.
+3
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:30 am)Thanks for this incredibly funny, disturbing AND absolutely heart-breaking link, Don!
+5
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:33 am)If the MiEV can be delivered in the low-mid $20K range, and then qualifies for the various Fed & State rebates it will sell very well to the young college crowd. It will be like the Scions or Kia Souls out there. Cool for the hip college age kids to be in. Oh and if for some reason they run out of juice and are stuck; Young people generally can tolerate the back up plan of walking or waiting to get picked up. It won’t work for many real world families, but will have a place at the table. I am sure there will be a few middle aged guys out there trying to look hip in this vehicle. I actually think this car will do well as there is a definite market for it. The Nissan Leaf may be priced to high for it to catch on with the crowd that the technology makes sense for. The Volt is the optimum technology for the mass group of middle income American families. It is the right technology at the right time.
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:39 am)Yes, laugh and sigh at the same time.
“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 8 times… am I a f**king idiot?” – Jon Stewart
+3
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:44 am)I LIKE that kind of talk! Works for me!!!
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:52 am)Sounds plausible except for one thing – young people are more apt to forget to plug in every day, as they have less of a fixed schedule, and more distractions.
From all accounts, forgetting to plug in occasionally is a very real problem. For example, Lyle forgot to plug in his Mini-E 4 times in one year. People who compare this to running out of gas just don’t know what they’re talking about. A better example is this: How many people sometimes forget to plug in their cell phone every night?
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:55 am)I did not see that announcement … Do you have a source? Very interesting if true.
- That would be great competition for the VOLT.
- FORD, GM and the USA would be big winners!
Jun 19th, 2010 (12:10 pm)I’ve also been googling this for the last 15 minutes and haven’t come up with anything.
In fact, just last summer Ford said they thought EREVs were a mistake:
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f81/autoline-ford-says-series-hybrids-chevy-volt-mistake-82220/
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (12:22 pm)+1 to you. Logic suggests the most likely segment to buy a BEV is the educated young crowd with open minds and expectations. As this may not be the wealthiest market segment, low pricing will be important. That means smaller, more basic vehicles. This is the important market segment to establish.
I think they are more likely to accept radical designs such as the i-MiEV as well as more able to adapt to the changes with regard to daily habitual tasks such as plugging the damn cord in to charge the battery. Young people are generally computer savvy and would seamlessly take to all the modern communication tech EV’s will have.
This is the important age group to establish. As they grow up and prosper, their experience and new expectations as to what a car should be will help greatly the expansion of the BEV/EREV market.
Jun 19th, 2010 (12:26 pm)Thanks for the info
Ford was talking about electric cars for the “future” but no EREV.
There was an announcement, not by Ford, there would be an abundant supply of batteries for EVS starting very soon.
Hopefully we will hear/read more. :+}
Jun 19th, 2010 (12:51 pm)i remember reading they are also working on a range extender.
The below link is kool on what is there USP compared to others.
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/special/ev/4innovations/index.html
Jun 19th, 2010 (1:10 pm)MIEV will be ideal for the office commute ..& under $20k will be a big boost …will have to see what price they put on when in showroom until then it is just talk ..
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (1:27 pm)#11
That’s the way it looks to me too. And that’s in Japan. I don’t see where they say it applies here.
Jun 19th, 2010 (1:31 pm)I wonder if they intend to keep that two-tone paint scheme on the production models? Even though the design seems a bit unorthodox, “Jellybean” beats “Catfish” on a purely aesthetic basis, IMHO (perhaps not by a lot).
iMiev should cost less than LEAF, since it has a much smaller battery pack; and it sounds like they intend to make most of it usable — perhaps severely limiting it’s operational lifetime. Other than that, bring it on. I won’t be buying it, but there are people who surely will.
-22
Jun 19th, 2010 (1:35 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (1:42 pm)The high school kids will figure out how to increase the volume! Remember the days of Glasspacks / Cherry Bomb mufflers?
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (1:42 pm)Voting appears to be broken, or you’d be looking at a -1 (at least) by now. Of course we also know that your brain is broken (and your spelling never worked).
Jun 19th, 2010 (1:53 pm)Well, John didn’t say what year, maybe we should widen our searches!
(OT, but an interesting read):
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/06/henry-ford-thomas-edison-ev/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (2:11 pm)Jimmy Carter, the first scientist in the White House (Nuclear), was for solar panels?!! He was known to favor a Thorium cycle, but as far as I can find out, did not lift one Presidential finger to make it happen. Where would we be today if he had? That’s the real heart-breaker.
It kind of makes me want to lift one finger …
… half of the ‘Peace Symbol,’ LOL …
(Where is everybody?
/raining, here … )
Jun 19th, 2010 (2:16 pm)Blah Blah Blah
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (2:34 pm)-14
Jun 19th, 2010 (2:40 pm)(click to show comment)
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (2:46 pm)I just saw this video for the first time and rushed over here to tell everyone about it. If you haven’t seen it yet, you absolutely must watch it. Funniest, truest, saddest thing I’ve seen in a long time.
You’ll laugh. You’ll cry. You’ll get mad like in Rocky III. You’ll start saving up for an electric car.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (2:49 pm)Hmm. The Jon Stewart link didn’t copy for me. Sorry. But find it higher up in this thread and see it!
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (2:53 pm)This car is really too small for prolonged hwy usage, the speed is fine but you would be terrified everytime an suv went by. They are perfect for city use and the small battery pack is perfect for that also, you really dont need 100 miles of range. In crowded cities where parking was difficult this would be great, in places like London or Hong Kong it would literally be perfect. The car has lots of room for 4 adults.
Think about this.. you could probably fit four of these in your garage.. and still have room for a long range Volt
+2
Jun 19th, 2010 (3:05 pm)john1701a:
On Wednesday, Ford announced their intent to deliver exactly that.How come price isn’t included in the criteria?
I did not see that announcement … Do you have a source? Very interesting if true.
- That would be great competition for the VOLT.
- FORD, GM and the USA would be big winners!
Sorry Ford fans, this first is in GM’s camp, yes, and it’s a big one too.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (3:25 pm)Ford’s Plan to Hedge on Hybrids
http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/25540/page1/
“Ford’s plug-in design also allows it to save money on the battery. GM has decided to make the Volt run exclusively on electricity for the first 40 miles of driving, without any help from the on-board gasoline engine. The engine only kicks on after the battery is depleted, when it serves to generate electricity and recharge the battery, rather than directly driving the wheels. The advantage is the car can use no gasoline at all for commuting. But Ford has decided to let the gasoline engine help with heavy acceleration and for sustained highway speeds, and it is aiming for a shorter electric range of 30 miles. This means its plug-in hybrids will use a relatively small battery pack that stores less than 10 kilowatt-hours of energy–far less than the 16 kilowatt-hours stored by GM’s Volt.”
-1
Jun 19th, 2010 (3:53 pm)I would give $9,999 (+tax & fees) for the Miev. Basically what I would pay for a motorcycle. It would be a fun toy that I would use every now & then, but that’s about it. I’d give a little more for the Leaf, simply due to the bigger battery pack/range.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (3:54 pm)What will be the price based on the article? Current price in Japan, around $31,500 after government rebates. Price expected upon initial release in USA, sub $30,000. Price in Japan in 2012, around $22,000 after government incentives. Question, will the USA price also drop by about 30% in 2012, going from say $29,000 to $21,000 before rebates? That is the way I read it, but many others read it differently.
Jun 19th, 2010 (3:57 pm)Sunny and hot (heading for 93 F) in northern NM, hotter in central (97) and southern (102) NM. Humidity at 3-7% in the north, you might say it’s a “dry heat.”
Jun 19th, 2010 (4:00 pm)Honda Goldwings are running about $25k now.
-21
Jun 19th, 2010 (4:17 pm)(click to show comment)
+4
Jun 19th, 2010 (4:23 pm)Pat you are like trying to explain Football (not soccer) to my wife !! You don’t listen. I already told you. MiEV at right price will be very successful with the college & high school kids. (Yes kids own cars over here – another one of those rights guaranteed the constitution — Well that’s what they told me).
Pat Robertson…. Was it him or Oral Roberts that said if people didn’t send him a large chunk of cash, God would take his life… Anyway it worked and I wish I thought of it.
Yes it is a slow & sunny day here in Wisconsin!
FAT, I explained that earlier. Food here is cheap and plentiful, part of our agricultural ingenuity and we need to make our farmers feel good by eating all of it. And it gives our health care workers jobs. What if we all were thin and in shape? Then we would have a real jobs crisis!
Unborn, yea that is a debate that will go on forever. Thankfully we have the Constitution that allows both sides to be pissed off.
Not sure about the highest homicide rate, all I know is that in Neenah, WI the only recent homicide was hmmm don’t remember it was a long time ago… Dotson, turns out he is gay (not that there is anything wrong with that), but he is getting reformed
The Constitution protects us all, it is Bullet proof which why we hide behind it. Too bad you don’t have one. But the nice thing is that we allow you to post your drivel. In other countries, you can get killed for having the wrong opinion. In the good old U.S., we just give you the thumbs down for your wrong opinion. We are much more civil.
And by the way, I am guessing you have not had a HUMMER in a while, and that is why you are so angry. In the U.S. our wives and/or girlfriends (or if gay, our boyfriend) give us a HUMMER every day. (It’s required under the Constitution — look it up!)
+5
Jun 19th, 2010 (4:44 pm)Thanks! This helps explain things.
So like the Prius PHEV, the Ford PHEV won’t have any all-electric range at highway speeds. But unlike Toyota’s production version, Ford will offer 30 miles of electric boost, which is significant.
Let me attempt to define the difference (please don’t flame me here, I’m doing my best):
“All-electric range” (AER) – This means the gas engine only turns on when:
• the battery reaches the customer depletion point (CDP)
• the gas engine hasn’t been run for a few months
• its really cold outside
In other words, this means the gas engine hardly every turns on during the AER range
“Electric boost” – This means the engine does run frequently, but the battery and electric motor still provide a lot of the power when the gas engine runs. So the net effect is to have a really high MPG rating during the electric boost, like 100-150 MPG.
So let’s say Ford’s PHEV gets 120 MPG for the first 30 miles, and then 40 MPG afterward. Let’s run the numbers on that. With a typical driving pattern, assuming you only charge overnight:
Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
Volt ……………………… 37
Ford PHEV-30 ……… 131
Prius …………………… 228
30 MPG car ………… 380
20 MPG car ………… 570
Is that competition for the Volt? I’ll let you be the judge.
-18
Jun 19th, 2010 (4:54 pm)(click to show comment)
-9
Jun 19th, 2010 (5:49 pm)There you go Jimza …u are civil unlike many others I know ..:) Hiding behind constitution..? good intention but hypocracy abounds in US.. Plenty of examples of that u guys live by ..Just look at the whining from MS AL folks complaning about losing jobs in oil industry ..k more oil spills will be coming your way ..especially no oversight ..ah ha but $$$ profits truimphs over oil spill ..
Funny about Hummer ..[Dont worry about my hummer] alright but my reference was to Hummers from GM 3T Ford trucks getting 10-12 mpg US citizens have no concept of environment , violence with SWAT teams in every city/town just in case someone blows people away with AK 47…soeey he forgot that rifles are meant for hunting (NRA BS hypocracy) but hey few thousands lose lives thru guns what the heck ..but but but constitution ..
Fatty people has nothing to do with employment it is fatty folks chowing in front of TV instead of doing something …or munching over doses of tablets to become after gorging over cheap food ..what a life but hey good luck to you all ..
yeah kids buy cars ..dont have jobs or working at grocery stores ..slavery wages are rampant ..middle class working 2 jobs top survive ..nojkob no health insurance…hey welcome to Amerrrica ..
Jun 19th, 2010 (5:54 pm)I would never buy a $25K motorcycle. Like i said.. $10K max.
+7
Jun 19th, 2010 (6:11 pm)Maybe this will work.
Jun 19th, 2010 (6:15 pm)Me neither. I paid $7000 for my 1995 Aspencade in 2004, with 60,000 miles. But somebody has to buy the new ones so people like me can buy them nine years later.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (6:17 pm)What’s the MSRP on that baby?
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (6:17 pm)I have seen a prototype Ford Escape. Will be on market in 2012 ibelieve. But it is a parallel hybrid that only goes up to 40 MPH on electric and only has battery capacity for 30 miles. But it is a really nice vehicle configured as a true SUV. My sense was that it would be expensive.
-3
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:12 pm)The reaction to finding out you’ve been mislead is to just click the negative vote. Interesting.
That’s not how the realities of business & marketing should be dealt with.
Makes you wonder what other inconvenient truths are going to surface along the way and what the response will be.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:15 pm)Yes officer, but the sound box is legally required :
-1
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:23 pm)1/3 of the year, I come out to my car after work to the reality that the temperature is below freezing. That means the engine will be required for warm up, regardless of AER.
The previous decade is loaded of examples where not meeting expectations… specially to warm up …have led to disappointment. Setting Volt up for the same situation seems quite unwise.
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (7:35 pm)I don’t care TOO much about this statistic. Buyers will have to be aware of their driving habits, not only their daily range but how aggressive they drive as well. Driving habits will affect the range. Personally, I drive about 30 miles per day, but I’m also a little more aggressive than a typical driver, so hopefully I’ll be able to commute using only battery juice. GM went with 40 miles of AER. They could have gone more or less, but this will cover the majority of drivers and keeps the cost down vs. 100 mile range. And of course the beauty of the Volt is the ICE range extender for those situations where more range is required.
(ps: i didn’t vote on your post)
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:12 pm)2001 National Household Travel Survey shows 67% of daily accrued miles per driver are below 40 miles. A total of 69,817 households were interviewed for that. Ofcourse there are several stats to pick from – do you have that link to “1,000 people survey” ?
http://nhts.ornl.gov/introduction.shtml
http://evnow.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/curing-range-anxiety/
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:28 pm)This one shows 78%
http://www.bts.gov/publications/omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/html/figure_02.html
Not sure what year its from.
-13
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:31 pm)(click to show comment)
-11
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:48 pm)(click to show comment)
-1
Jun 19th, 2010 (8:58 pm)My loyalty to GM went on for 20 years. They are always first to announce, last to launch – corporate principle I suppose. Will every other manufacturer beat them to the punch?
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:18 pm)Outside enjoying the sunshine with the top down, also planes. Lots of planes.
Oh, they have half the color of the i-MiEV correct.
Cheers
+1
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:18 pm)Dude — Apparently you do not know what a real HUMMER is… LOLOLOL Trust me you would want one or two or three or… Fat, Skinny, Medium… Sometimes Old Hummers with a lot of miles are better New ones! LOL
Come to America my friend and experience a real HUMMER. Not the Chinese version!
Jun 19th, 2010 (9:59 pm)I’m sorry guys, but I honestly don’t think this country is ready for a pure EV.
Range is too short and charging time is too long.
And what is it with the trolls these days?
+3
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:08 pm)Fixed that for you, you interminable buffoon.
+6
Jun 19th, 2010 (10:15 pm)According to three years of your narrow, psychotic posts; it’s the Volt itself which you consider unwise. The actual detail which you seize upon in any given thread to further expound this is utterly beside the point. We have heard what you have to say (we’ve heard it since the first year, there is really no need for your endlessly repeating it).
Please go away. You are not constructive. You are only pathetic.
Jun 19th, 2010 (11:32 pm)Constructive, eh?
No, insults are not.
+3
Jun 20th, 2010 (12:20 am)Just a reminder…
Jun 20th, 2010 (12:23 am)Was able to drive a production i-MiEV back to back with the MINI E. While not as spry as the MINI E, the i-MiEV had competent acceleration with twice as many people on board, and twice the storage space, in a smaller footprint. Light weight and a low center of gravity add to agile handling. Magically bigger inside than it appears from outside. Comfortable seating position with nice headroom front and back for 6’2”. Excellent visibility. Fold flat back seats. Nicely engineered form-follows-function design felt very solid. Delay of US introduction is to widen the US version by ~10cm (because of how US calculates rollover numbers), and bumper changes for NHTSA compliance.
The i-MiEV is a serious competitor in the BEV market if the additions don’t make it overweight. Priced $2k below the LEAF it becomes attractive in downtown parking competition where shortest car wins. At $3k less, it will steal sales volume. It will also take sales from Smart Fortwo EV.
Jun 20th, 2010 (1:02 am)This is one way – to work.
“On a typical day, how many miles one-way do you travel from home to work?”
+2
Jun 20th, 2010 (1:11 am)That is correct. Which addict would easily give up the addiction ?
EV is only for early adopters who recognize the importance of not funding terrorism or raping the environment. We are happy to live within the limitations of EVs – for a greater cause. I’ve been an early adopter of almost every new successful technology in the last 2 decades – so here I’m again. See you in a decade.
Jun 20th, 2010 (1:25 am)An EV is my dream car come true so I welcome any EV to the market.
But Lets talk price, Two Words “DEALER GOUGING.”
Since we all love numbers lets look at some numbers: There are over 5000 Chevy dealership in North America, Volt production is 20,000 per year. This means even if GM sold Volts only in North America each dealership would get an average of FOUR Volts per YEAR. Do you guys think they will sell those FOUR Volts at MSRP ?????
I will bet anyone that there will be a SECOND STICKER of at least $5000 +Tax (+license and FEES). Add the sales tax and you’ll be lucky to get out of the dearship anywhere close to $40,000.
I’ve been a fan of Volt since the early inception of this website, I’m number 10XXX on Dr. Lyles Wish List, but I doubt very much I’ll have access to a reasonably priced Volt anytime soon.
That’s why I reserved my Tesla Model S.
For another $10,000 I already have my Price, no dealer haggling, no second sticker and NO SALES TAX in state of Washington. I have my production number and the Model S will be delivered to my door early 2012. AND its sexier as hell, doesn’t look a bit like a Jellybean, Bugeyed or a Malibu.
Jun 20th, 2010 (6:06 am)Sjohn said:
An EV is my dream car come true so I welcome any EV to the market.
Me too. Especially I-miEV type vehicles, which will probably be traded in heavily for Volts, when they are available. An I-miEV picked up for a song, would be perfect to park next to the garage and connect the battery up as grid, solar or wind storage. Heck, I might even drive it once in a while, when somebody else is using the Volt.
-1
Jun 20th, 2010 (6:18 am)re: Mitsubishi Motors North America
Do you think about this statement?
Is there a GM ..Japan… or a FORD .. Japan?
There should NOT be a Mitsubishi Motors North America if we are not allowed in their market!!!!
re:I have my production number and the Model S will be delivered to my door early 2012.
With the advancements of the EV who the … would purchase one with a delivery date of well over a year? Think about it?
+1
Jun 20th, 2010 (6:59 am)How about:
http://www.gmjapan.co.jp/
http://www.ford.co.jp/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=DFY/JP
-1
Jun 20th, 2010 (7:29 am)I believe pure EVs will use more gasoline than EREVs.
Here’s why: Most pure EV proponents say they will use another car for longer trips. In most cases that other car doesn’t get 50 MPG.
For example, let’s say you own a Nissan Leaf and use a Toyota Corolla for longer trips. With a typical driving pattern, assuming you only charge overnight:
Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
Volt ………………………. 37
Leaf/Corolla ………… 39
Prius …………………… 228
30 MPG car ………… 380
20 MPG car ………… 570
Jun 20th, 2010 (7:53 am)You watch too much TV!
Grab a board and go surfing or hop on a bike and find a mountain or take the afternoon to increase your vitamin D intake or just do something else for a while.
And by the way,
Happy Father’s day guys!
Jun 20th, 2010 (8:05 am)Technically, all assumptions between electric cars, should also be divided between and men and women. Also the ‘most drivers do XXX miles between home and work,’ excludes the rest of a persons day, which is nonesensical unless you change the parameters to include additional day charging.
…and if you do that, you would have to do it for other full BEVs, which of course increases their range, and lessens ‘range anxiety’.
The fact is the average mileage of a male in a year is 16,749 (according the last NHTS) and it is increasing, the average mileage of a female is 10,174.
Which means on the ‘average’ day, a male drives 46 miles, while a female only drives 28. The Volt is really in the ‘get off gas/mileage sweet spot’ for the ladies. A man will being using petrol in the Volt about 25% of the time. (Just the way it breaks down to average 46 miles, for every day of ‘no miles’ you have a day of 92 miles)
Handy graph, showing men/women and the trend:
Average Annual Miles by Gender
1969–2001 Year Male Female All
1969 11,352 5,411 8,685
1977 13,397 5,940 9,917
1983 13,962 6,382 10,288
1990 16,536 9,528 13,125
1995 16,555 10,144 13,479
2001 16,749 10,174 13,673
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/2003/fcvt_fotw255.html
So technically the Volt is more ideally suited to a woman, who want a electric and want to get off oil. With the Volt for ladies there is less mileage to account for, and of course there is greater emphasis on anxiety with this group.
Jun 20th, 2010 (10:37 am)Who?
Where?
When?
You cannot just claim “typical” without stating any detail or a source.
Jun 20th, 2010 (10:51 am)EPA’s Fuel Economy Guide published just last month uses 15,000 miles as their basis of measure.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2000.htm
I strongly suggest you finally adopt that well-established industry standard rather than the arbitrary 11,390 miles in your claimed “typical” distance.
+1
Jun 20th, 2010 (10:52 am)Yeah — I agree we should ignore the Trolls. I just have too damn much fun debating the Trolls. Ever since I won the State high school varsity switch-side debate in 1979. Topic; Containing or Appeasing Islam Countries
I will TRY to stop talking to trolls. Sometime they make it too easy though!!! LOL Hmmmm cure my addiction to oil or my addiction to Troll debates….. We’ll see how they both go in the rest of the year. 
+1
Jun 20th, 2010 (12:27 pm)This is what I was thinking while reading the article… my daughter is 4 short years to her license… I hope I can keep her off gas forever
+1
Jun 20th, 2010 (1:05 pm)The only release I see as closely relevant on Ford web site: http://www.ford.com/about-ford/news-announcements/press-releases/press-releases-detail/pr-2011-lincoln-mkz-hybrid-is-the-32803
Jun 20th, 2010 (1:48 pm)#104
I’ll bet you $10 right now that the Volt shows up before the Tesla Model S.
+1
Jun 20th, 2010 (6:23 pm)#104: Sjohn: I’ve been a fan of Volt since the early inception of this website, I’m number 10XXX on Dr. Lyles Wish List, but I doubt very much I’ll have access to a reasonably priced Volt anytime soon.
That’s why I reserved my Tesla Model S.
And I’ll bet SJOHN a 24-pack, the Volt will come in at a lower cost than the Tesla. I still think GM will price Volt high $46-50K for the first generation, but Tesla S will come in at the $65K range.
Jun 21st, 2010 (12:54 pm)I won’t quote anyone to avoid the appearance of attacking them, but before getting too smug about, “My [future] electric car doesn’t pollute”, don’t forget that 70+ percent of the electricity used to charge your Volt/LEAF/i-miev will come from fossil fuels, unless you have your own generator at home. There was a recent show on PBS about strip mining for coal over the years in the Appalachians, that’s not exactly beautiful either (compared to the Gulf).
I’m reminded of the people who protest logging, and then go home to their house made of *wood*. Consider your own life before ragging on others. Even if electricity is generated via fusion or the mythical thorium reactor, it eventually all becomes heat, which is arguably a pollutant as well.
If you truly care about the Earth and its future, have 1 or 2 kids, instead of 6 or 8. That is the best overall thing people can do, IMO.
Just wanted to throw this out there, negative-rate away…
Jun 21st, 2010 (1:04 pm)Oops, I of course meant “large solar panel array (or wind turbine, hydro, etc)”, instead of “generator”.