When Daimler AG first announced it would be producing an electric Smart ForTwo mini car, it was met with a degree enthusiasm. That was back at a time of record gas prices and before Nissan entered the marketplance with the 5-seat LEAF.
The Smart ForTwo EV is slated for mass production in 2012, and Smart has just announced that a pilot program of 250 vehilces will be introduced into North America in October. The cars will be leased to individuals, corporations, and fleets reportedly at a cost of $600 per month for a four-year lease.
The 2-seat mini cars are powered by 16.5 kwh Tesla-produced lithium ion packs and a 30 kw electric motor. The car can be recharged in 8 hours at 220V and offers up to an 80 mile range and top speed of 65 t0 70 miles per hour.
Smart USA is a subsidiary of Penske Automotive which is the exclusive distributor of Smart cars for the US market. There are currenly 100 SmartForTwo EVs in operation in Europe, and this North America trial program begins a second phase which will include distribution of 1500 cars globally. The third phase starts with mass production in 2012.
The rollout of these electric Smart cars will target “key electrification leadership cities and Department of Energy grant areas”. These area will include, accoring to the Wall Stretet Journal, “Portland, Ore.; San Jose, Calif.; Indianapolis; Orlando, Fla.; and the Washington, D.C.-Boston corridor.”
“The smart fortwo electric drive is the ultimate statement on innovative automotive conservation and further defines the brand’s independent spirit,” said Jill Lajdziak, president of smart USA, and former chief of Saturn. “As the United States sets goals on CO2 reduction and oil independence, the smart fortwo electric drive enters the market at the right time and in the right place as the purist’s play in transportation electrification with a no compromise design.”
Now this may seem well and good, but with the rollout of the Volt and LEAF, not to mention the BMW ActiveE, Think City, Tesla Model S and others, does the country really want this particular diminutive electric car at all?
If gas-powered SmartFor Twos are any indication, probably not.
When the conventional Smart cars first went on sale, in their first 18 months of production from March 2008 through August 2009, an average of 1916 vehicles per month were sold nationally. Since August 2009 though sales have plummetted an astonishing 66% to a paltry average of 633 per month, with only 278 bought this January.
These cars have an average transaction price of $15,000 making them just as costly as some 5 seat subcompacts. Smart buyer apparently want to been seen as different, but it is possible all those potential buyers have dried up.
So will the SmartFor Two EV pilot program save this brand that isn’t growing or be its death knell? You be the judge.
Source (Edmunds) (Wall Street Journal) and (SmartUSA)
+15
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:29 am)I see these cars a lot now.
Several months ago, I read somewhere that these were a waste of money to buy.
The reasons: No cargo space, low 40s MPG, under powered, etc.
+14
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:35 am)Smart 4-2 is too small for me. There are a couple people at work that have them and they are really tiny (two fit in one parking space). These kinds of micro cars traditionally don’t do well in the US.
This is why Volt will do well. It looks like ‘a car’. It is not too weird or strange.
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:40 am)In order to go mainstream, the car has to have reasonable seating (4 or more), reasonable cargo space, and no compromises on range.
So far, the Volt is the only car I’ve seen that meets this criteria.
+9
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:42 am)I don’t believe we can have enough EVs in the market place.
We don’t seem to have too many ICE vehicles (from a sales standpoint).
As infrastructure and charge times improve, we will see more on the road.
Personally, I welcome them all. Even EEStore, if they ever get their act together and move
beyond scam.
+9
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:43 am)No matter what anyone says, this car will not protect you in a wreck like a bigger car. Not a practical car and is not for me.
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:52 am)It is supposed to have a cage (similar to NASCAR) to protect the driver and passenger.
But I’m with you. I wouldn’t feel too safe in it either. Physics is not always my friend.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:58 am)I always thought of this car as a fad. Good for the European market where there are many tiny parking spots, but in NA parking for full size cars is well provided and putting 2 Smart-For-2 in one spot is not possible or practical.
That said, I believe the EV version will be successful, only because it is an EV. But it’s popularity will be short lived in NA too. Th!nk has the same problem. I like the Th!nk for it’s innovative plastic body, but I don’t think it will do well in the NA market.
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:58 am)This car is something that I just cannot relate to. That being said, I suspect that the electric version will sell a reasonable number and that is probably a good thing. I also look forward to areas (“retirement communities?”) where so-called “city cars” are viable and do not have to compete at highway speeds.
+4
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:01 am)..The cars will be leased to individuals, corporations, and fleets reportedly at a cost of $600 per month for a four-year lease.
The cost seems high as compared to the Leaf’s lease of around $350 per month, for a car that does not seem to be as big or as functional as the Leaf.
With the small numbers of vehicles involved, cost may not be as much of a factor right now as compared to curiosity, amusement, or simply the wish to be different. It is still a big price difference, for those few places where both are available.
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:03 am)I think the test program is crazy! $600 per month, OK, I would try it just to try it for a year. But to have to lock in for four years? I don’t think so…….
And again, with the limited release area!!!
Note to government and manufacturers: There are a lot of people that are “early adopters” that live all over the country!!!! You miss a valuable resource when you limit availability.
JMHO
Have Outlet – Ready For E-REV
NPNS
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:11 am)I think that Smart sales, or lack thereof, indicates that most people will not buy a new car just for commuting. Smart EV will be their death knell.
+5
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:13 am)When crude oil prices take off again, demand for small efficient cars will be there.
I believe the only question is, will it be a quick temporary spike or a very large permanent jump in the price of crude oil.
People believe the spilled oil in the U.S Gulf is a “Big Mess” Now.
Just imagine radioactive oil fields in the Middle East.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again …. Israel is not going to allow Iran to complete a Nuke Weapon.
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:19 am)8 hour recharge @ 220V, 80 mile range, $15Kor $600/mo lease means I will not be considering this ‘vehicle’.
I briefly considered it as a 2nd car when I retire instead of a golf cart (the majority of people in the retirement area I’m in use a golf cart as their ’2nd car’). The gas models of these get over 100mpg and have a 300+ mile range, fully tricked out they cost 10K. Much as I’d like an all electric golf cart they are still using lead acid batteries that last at most 3-4 years, cost about $1000 to replace, have 80mile range and extended recharge time.
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:21 am)Not too worry, Jim I. We can still get our F-150s.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:22 am)The Smart EV isn’t much of a step above a NEV. If they keep the price down, maybe it will be popular. Moreso in large cities w/limited parking or w/those who want to look different. The range & top speed are the main dealbreaker for me.
+10
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:35 am)_____________ SMART = DUMB (und… DAIMLER AG = DUMMKOPF!) ____________
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:41 am)So will the SmartFor Two EV pilot program save this brand that isn’t growing or be its death knell? You be the judge.
We may be getting overheated here.
The post is about 250 vehicles in a pilot program.
Perhaps it will yield useful data for the company and be a fun adventure for a few people, but in itself, no impact.
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:55 am)Anyone ever notice that some of the fattest people cram it into some of the smallest of cars like the smart?
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:01 am)Huh? What gets 100 MPG and only cost $10K fully tricked out? Certainly not the Smartfor2.
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:03 am)I would not be surprised if the Smart EV actually becoems more popular than the ICE model. Friends of friends who drive the Smart talk about the poor acceleration, the clumsy and noisy transmission and the surprisingly poor mileage for a car that size.
But an EV version (done right) could eliminate all these problems. Acceleration is one of the best features of an EV. The EV motor eliminates the transmission problems, and of course, the issue with fuel mileageis moot.
That said, I agree that the car faces an uphill climb in this market. But it may do well in Europe.
-1
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:11 am)Very few cars in the United States get more than 40 MPG so I don’t understand why they are not more popular. Must be the size cause it look like a sawed-off compact car.
Be aware that the Volt is actually a very small car when seen in person. It looks much bigger in the pictures on the internet. It is smaller than most Honda cars, except maybe the Fit.
As for being a waste of money, I thought they sold for around $20K or half the price of a Volt, so not sure this is the reason for poor sales.
I have seen Smart cars at local Cadillac dealers and they look super small next to a caddy but Cadillac tend to be bigger than most cars so the difference appears huge in the showroom. As matter of fact to get the Smart4two into the showroom they just drive it thru the front door, that’s how small it is !
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:16 am)I’m sure he meant the golf cart. Last year people were buying them and getting a tax credit for an EV. So they almost got them for free. I think some dealers actually were advertising them that way. (John Stossel made a big deal about it earlier this year.)
+6
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:22 am)I enjoy reading the articles about the Volt, but recently with the new website, the advertising on the site has become overwhelming, bloated even. I don’t mind it so much except for the fact that the site is much much slower to load and it detracts from the reading of the articles. At least my two cents worth.
+4
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:22 am)Being up front, I don’t hate Smart cars. I think their kind of neat and a little quirky, and the few people out there that bought one probably adore their purchase. But having said that, I would never buy one. Here are my reasons:
1. They are too small for American highways.
2. Not efficient enough to blow away the competition.
3. Not really accessible for all people to buy or get serviced with the limited dealer network.
4. Not really a bargain at $15000 for the size of the vehicle you are getting.
5. I’m personally not turned off by the design, but it is polarizing and some people absolutely hate the look. Therefore it has very limited appeal.
6. Limited utility due to the small proportions.
7. And now an EV version with a relatively short range, and probable high cost, and still all of the negatives above remaining, I can’t see how this will be anymore than a failure. The other coming EV competition with further ranges, more utility, etc. will bury this car.
I just don’t know what Penske was thinking with that move. I think the flirtation he was doing with the idea of buying Saturn had even more merit than the decision to sell Smart cars. Even at $4.00 or 5.00 gallon gas, the shortcomings of the Smart (no pun) do not a great decision make.
Bottom line: You’ll pay a lot more for a Volt, but you’ll also have a lot more.
-2
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:22 am)I think they should double-up on the battery, even if they have to extend the rear a little. They should make it a pocket rocket to boost performance and boost sales. It already looks like an enclosed golf cart so they shouldn’t make it perform like one. Big mistake, I would put a 32kwH battery and double performace, when you step out of it you should have a permanent grin embedded on your face, your hair should be whipped back behind your face, and you should have a sore neck from the instant torque and the aroma of burnt rubber should be emanating about your person. This is called the WOW factor and would definately increase sales even if the price was increase $8K or so for the beefed up battery.
This is how you increase sales but it looks like they want to cripple the tiny car to meet a set price point which is not a SMART idea.
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:26 am)One of the favorite jobs I’ve had was to drive a 45 foot bus. Looking down on a Smart, the roll cage is insignificant. Well, looking down on any car, actually, shows how large a bus is. But every time I see a Smart on the interstate I would wonder how the car would handle the wind turbulence (of all things) behind me. I would imagine the Smart in my wake just tumbling and bouncing down the road like a tumbleweed…
I’d slowly shake my head and say a prayer…
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:28 am)I’d put this car in the same category as the Th!nk. The EV version might be better received than the standard ICE model. As mentioned, the Smart is diminutive, which in most places isn’t a plus, but it doesn’t get great mileage, requires premium gas, and has a transmission from hell. An EV version would solve the problems so the only negative would be the size, and for some people that’s not so much of a negative.
Probably depends on price. If it can compete with the NmG on price then it might find a niche.
Obviously not a Volt.
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:29 am)Just looked at the Smart website. Base Pure coupe model lists at $11,899 and is rated at 33/41 mpg. I ran the the build and price to add my creature comforts and came out at just shy of $14,000. Not all that much less than what I paid for my son’s Cobalt 4 door last year. He’s getting 28/33 mpg and the bigger car makes his mother feel better.
Jun 9th, 2010 (8:35 am)I never saw the reasoning behind paying $15,000 for a car the size of a golf-cart, especially considering how it doesn’t really get such good gas mileage.
+7
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:00 am)The last “Best Guess” of the VOLT’s price was $37,495.00 — and then the gov’t rebate would drop it below $30K by 5 bucks. If that is still true, it makes more sense to buy a VOLT than to lease a SMART:
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:01 am)I do not think the internet picture that made the rounds showing a Smart smashed front and back between two large vehicles, with the caption NOT SMART helped their sales.
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:06 am)Physics isn’t the Smart Car’s friend either.
While it has a safety cage, it lacks the crumble zones to reduce the abrupt accelerations of a crash. The safety cage will just mean a pretty corpse for the funeral.
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:11 am)Probably not, but it wasn’t even a Smart car. It was a GM car. I forget which model. I think it was a Pontiac but I can’t remember.
Still, the Smart car is way too small for Americans, Europeans on the other hand love them and they fit well on some of the tiny streets over there. I wouldn’t buy one, they don’t even get that good gas mileage. I could possibly see the EV version if I lived and traveled exclusively in a big city and had a place to charge, but even then I don’t know. I’d take the Leaf in a heartbeat over it and pay the extra money.
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:11 am)Many times you can take what marketing is packaging something as and reverse it to get what it really is.
In this case, reverse the meaning of the name and that’s what you have: Not Smart.
Because of the car’s short length compared to the width and height, it has terrible aerodynamics. This results in bad highway fuel efficiency. As far as I’m concerned, that’s the single value proposition in a compact.
So you can get a safer, more comfortable car that is more fuel efficient for less money. Smart is to not buy the Smart.
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:12 am)when are people going to GET IT that there is no market for a 2 seater eco car? Needs 4 seats, bigger the better, people want big cars these days.
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:14 am)If it is priced well enough below the LEAF the Smart EV just might be surprisingly more successful than the LEAF. It’s always been a fringe car, and to be honest I always felt it looked like what I’d imagine an EV would be like – different.
So my vote is: an EV version would extend Smart’s shelf life in the marketplace.
+4
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:18 am)When you say it’s suppose to have a “CAGE” did you mean “Coffin”? I think it’s a Smart Car because when you’re in a wreck they can bury you and the car without the need for funeral home services. A good casket cost over $6,000, look at the money you’re saving.. Thats just good planning if you ask me….:)
Go Volt
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:24 am)So if it has a 16.5 kwh pack, how much of it are they using so that it takes 8 hours at 220V to recharge? Or is that 16.5 kwh-usable in a 20kwh+ pack?
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:30 am)LOL I see Volts everyday. The one thing I always think is how much bigger it is in person then in photos.
Before I saw one in person I was thinking it was small like a Cobalt but in person you can see it is much larger it looks like a mid-size car.
+5
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:32 am)Let’s ask ourselves why people buy small cars:
1.) Good mpg
2.) Low cost (although not always)
3.) Easy to park in congested areas (but this applies only to a small minority of cities and people)
So why buy a tiny cramped car like the SmartForTwo when you can get a Cruze or Focus for similar money, almost comparable mpg, better power, superior handling, and more cargo space? The ONLY possible advantage left for the SmartForTwo is that it is smaller and easier to park on the street in Boston, NYC, etc. Of course, this advantage also disappears as soon as the street parking has meters and predesignated space sizes. The bottom line is that the SmartForTwo offers almost no advantages, while having several disadvantages.
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:32 am)I dont want a big car, but if my car only has 2 seats, i’d expect it to be a sporty coupe or roadster. Lots of complaints about the safety of the Smart car. I guess that’s not as much of an issue to me, as I drive a motorcycle sometimes, which basically has no safety. Cliche, but you have to be a defensive driver. I also dont think the Smart car is made for US expressways or the autobahn. Its more of a city car, where speeds don’t get very high.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:41 am)This electric version of this car seems a good idea for a city environments only. For more general use it would not be of interest to me.
BTW was the ICE version of the SMART brought from Europe to boost its sales here? Predictions were it would not.
The VOLT has far more options in size, storage, ride, looks, distance capability, hi tech options, power, and just plain cool.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:42 am)I’m not so sure that slowing sales of the gasoline Smart indicate a lack of interest or potential for the electric Smart. Maybe all the buyers are holding out waiting for the electric version (OK probably not, but I’m just sayin’…).
If I lived in a laid back small town like where I grew up, an electric Smart would be worth consideration, if the price were right. However here in Metro Detroit many drive like idiots, way over the speed limit and talking on the cell, texting, etc. As many have said the electric Smart would be nice in a controlled retirement community, for example.
That crushed car picture was not a Smart. Funny how people so easily fall for urban legends.
I wonder if this one can be looked up on Snopes.
On the other hand I don’t think I’d want to cross the Mackinac Bridge in one of these. A Yugo got tossed off the bridge by a strong wind several years ago (and not an urban legend, in this case).
+3
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:43 am)The $600 a month for four year price of the Smart makes the BMW Mini-E field trial ($600 a month with no milage charges, excess wear charges, all maintanace including tires and liability insurance included) look like an absolute bargain.
The Mini-E is a heck of a lot more car than the 4two.
Thanks corvette guy for posting the payment graph for the Volt. Again you can see that the Mini-E is not that much more of a payment considering no money down and you get to hand over the keys at the end of the year.
I’m in for the second year with car and just love it.
Below is a year in review after 15,500 miles of Mini-E #183.
http://evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?authorid=226&blogid=873&archive=1
Can’t wait for the Voltec MPV, My future garage is looking like a BMW Megacity car and a Voltec MPV.
Cheers
Peder
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:48 am)I agree with Starcast. My wife and I looked at the Volt last month in Austin (in black). We both had the same impression, it was bigger than we had thought from pictures, and yet not too big. We think we will be quite satisfied with the size of our Volt (in White Diamond Tri-coat).
We also both have the same impression of the smart for two. We would never buy either the conventional or an EV model. The nicest thing one can call it is “cute.” I would be afraid to drive it on a highway. (At least on my GoldWing I can see my surroundings even if they tend to not see me.)
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:52 am)Fit = 161″L x 58″W
Volt = 170″L x 71″W
Civic=177″L x 69″
Interestingly, you have to upgrade to an Accord / CRV to get to be as wide as a Volt (71″). Wider cars tend to handle better, so it’s good that the Volt has a wide stance (my apologies to Larry Craig fans).
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:55 am)There’s a case to be made for this type of car and it’s an economic one for multi car households.
The challenge with battery driven cars (until batteries get really cheap and really light) is to maximize the viability and only pay for and carry just enough battery to get the job done.
This size of car and battery range is enough to get 80% + of the typical drivers trips done. It’ll be the right tool for the right job most all of the time, and when it comes time to replace the battery at the 8 or 10 year point, when you compare the cost of the new battery vs. the cost of the fuel and maintenance you saved … you’ll realize you came out a winner, even if gas is still relatively cheap.
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:55 am)This sezitall right here….
“These cars have an average transaction price of $15,000 making them just as costly as some 5 seat subcompacts. ”
Now if they come out with a BEV version and it costs as much as a LEAF, well, they just killed their EV IMHO.
With “Child Unit #1″ going off to college, a 2 seater will work for me now. So a $20,000 2 seat Smart would work for me.
Range is more than adequate for my commute and grocery go getter and the up to 70 mph is fine. I have only hit 50mph for about 3 minutes on my commute anyway. Damn rubberneckers….
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:57 am)For $16,000.00, you can get the Cruze and it will get higher mpg.
The smarts gonna die IMHO.
/cue the death horns….
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:02 am)If inexpensive enough, I think the electric Smart might do better than the gas version. Small second car for local trips. Looked up the Smart on Edmund’s. For looking like a shopping cart on wheels compared to my small AWD SUV I’d expect it to get triple the SUV mileage. At 36 mpg it’s not even rated at double. Can’t you already get the bigger Prius or even a Hyundai Accent and match than fuel consumption?
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:06 am)For a 2 seater, they need to make sure they price this thing properly. The fact that they used Tesla pack means it’s most likely expen$ive. I’m more of a fan of the “Pouch” type cells than the cylindrical ones.
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:08 am)And for good measure:
Smart fortwo = 8.8 feet long, 5.1 feet tall and 5.1 feet wide = 104″ L x 61″ W
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:10 am)I like the picture of the Smart-e above in Lyle’s article. If I lived a lifestyle where prior to every journey, trip or errand I sauntered out to the carriage house and picked the most appropriate vehicle option, I’m sure the Smart-e would fit in nicely.
Though I do hope every electrified vehicle offered finds a successful niche that helps to chip away at oil being burned to run passenger cars. And I actually like the car and would even drive one on highways if it worked for my needs, I don’t see myself as actually buying one.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:14 am)Very interesting post. it shows that ideas which make sense on paper do not always translate into commercial success. The Smart is a nice little car which can certainly do most of what a larger traditional car does but people are not buying. There may be many reasons for that, one being the style, the size, perceived safety and lack of cargo space among others. Who knows, but it shows that the public will not easily embrace a car concept that it a significant departure from traditional designs, even though it offers unique advantages.
Electric cars face the same challenges. They are different from traditional cars and commercially nothing is guaranteed. While they may be perfectly good 99% of the time it is that last 1% that may drive the buying decision ultimately. In that sense I always felt that the Volt was a clever design because it is an evolution not a revolution and presents the average buyer with a palatable transition from the pure ICE platform.
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:14 am)Cruze Eco?
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:18 am)“Now this may seem well and good, but with the rollout of the Volt and LEAF, not to mention the BMW ActiveE, Think City, Tesla Model S and others, does the country really want this particular diminutive electric car
at all?”
There could be a market but not at $600/mo with the Leaf available at the same time and for a lot less $.
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:19 am)The Volt might yet become my first white car. The more I see it the more I like the White Diamond Tri-coat Volt. My wife has allways loved that color on a Cadillac. I am a fan of Black cars but the Volt is the first car I think looks better in white.
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:23 am)99% of cars on the road would suffer the same fate when you consider that a semi truck weighs anywhere between 10-30 times more. It’s not just the Smart Car that has the same issue.
The car is surprisingly tough, though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:24 am)They need to get this little BEV priced around $17,000. I wouldn’t even put nav in it. Just a little SOC info and let it talk to the smart phone where the open sourced apps could do the rest.
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:24 am)Probably. Although I prefer one without all the “Power” features for windows, locks etc….
/yeah, i’m a cheap bastard.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:27 am)The key here is geography and critical mass.
In select populated areas of the US in the coastal West, the upper Midwest, Northeast, mid-Atlantic, Florida and Texas you will have two choices in personal transportation. A whole slew of modern ER-EV configurations (including ER-0-EVs and plug in parallel and dual mode hybrids) or underutilized busted ‘ole obsolete full gasser cr@p, much of the latter fresh off the assembly line.
I was tooling around town next to a Ducati 1098 super bike yesterday. For around town and the burbs, short commutes, errand running, heavy traffic, stop signs and red lights, nothing touches a lean vehicle with electric drive.
In case anyone wonders why I call ‘em full gassers, take a full size gas SUV designed to haul its maximum occupancy, fully packed storage area and tow its maximum towing load. Now put in only one occupant, the driver, no storage and have it haul air. Here’s what you get for performance and handling (thanks to the truck axle):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasser_(car)
Oddly related (thanks to 1956-1957), electric bikes are now advanced enough that they are experimenting with fairing choices, from the extremes of dustbin to naked:
http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/06/dustbin-2010-agni-e1-adopts-an.html
http://plugbike.com/2010/03/04/will-team-agni-streamline-for-tt-zero/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_bike
Given that electric bikes strengths are daily driving at legal speeds and that sensitivity to crosswinds, overheating and extra weight are all undesirable, my vote is towards naked, though minimized aerodynamics packages clearly have a role in fixed onboard energy (FOE) racing and for four wheeled contraptions. Of course, I think that form follows function and that optimized function is beauty so what do I know?
I’m not a fan of extreme bobbers as fairings and fenders keep rocks and air off you and lights are useful and legally required.
/meandering off
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:29 am)BINGO!
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:39 am)For anyone interested in reading further about the Smart Electric, one of the staffers at Motor Trend wrote an article after driving one and shared his impressions. You can read about it here:
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6654979/green/buzzing-around-brooklyn-in-the-us-bound-smart-fortwo-electric-drive/index.html
After reading it myself, I didn’t have any of my reservations against the idea of this car erased, sadly.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:40 am)If the Smart was a GM product, I would have bought one by now. D.B., not so much. I have theory that, if every single driver commuter on the SoCal freeways converted to a Smart, congestion would be usefully reduced. Plus, I could put two in the garage where my wife’s car is now, LOL. I’ve heard that in NYC some parking garages have a reduced Smart rate, since they can put 2 in one space. They evidently charge 2/3 of the standard rate, and everybody wins. it could add up to quite a bit of money over a year. As a life long motorcyclist, I would feel a lot safer in a Smart than one a bike, especially on rainy days, hehehe.
It does seem strange that something so small and light gets such mediocre mileage though. Although statik has reported that the Canadian diesel version does a lot better. Maybe GM could fix that. Come on Spark!
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:55 am)I think the name should be “dumb” … who would spend this much money on such a impractical, unsafe vehicle?
+5
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:57 am)Just a random note from my own experience.
My wife really like these cars, and we had a ‘steam green’ ForTwo when they first came out in Canada in 2004/2005 (she used it for ‘popping’ around). They sold very well in Canada…about 10,000 over the first couple years, they were/are sold at Daimler dealerships.
The problem with the Smart in the US, was due to it being such a success in Canada they really didn’t think it through when rushing it state side. They couldn’t bring in the ’450′ model because it didn’t pass the US safety regs, so they waited for the ’451′ in ’08.
The original Canadian version which sold so well, was a cdi, propelled by a 40 hp turbo diesel, that got a whopping 72 MPG. Unfortunatley the US government/EPA has a real hate on for anything diesel, so that engine was out…and Daimler also figured that US customers would want the extra power anyway, so they didn’t bother to rejig the diesel engine for sale in the US.
The current US/Canadian version makes little to no sense at 35MPG. In Canada, as soon as the cdi was no longer offered, sales fell off a cliff.
The car is not much fun to actually drive, but a good part of the allure (along with its diminutive size) was going to the gas station, pulling in beside another vehicle while they are filling, putting in the nozzle for a 30 second fill up, getting change back from a 10 spot, and still having the other person standing beside their vehicle pumping as you drive off. /good times
I feel that the Smart ForTwo in North America right now is a failure of management rather than the product.
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:01 am)In other EV news…
“it will begin offering its electric-powered i-MiEV in Australia this summer.”
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/09/mitsubishi-i-miev-headed-to-australia-becomes-countrys-first-m/
On ABG right now. Why have they not brought the JellyBean car here yet? The “CatFish” car’s gonna be here.
Sup witdat?
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:08 am)For me a dark color (black or midnight blue) will look best….I want the band at the bottom of the window to blend in with the body of the car so that you have a clean line from stem to stern. I’ve never like cars with the hood line higher than the top of the door.
Guess that’s why they make cars in multiple colors. Even Henry Ford came around to that thinking eventually.
+2
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:21 am)My attitude has been about electric cars other than the Volt: the more the merrier. The EV Smart Car, however, is a different story. This car just reinforces the stereotype of electric cars as glorified golf carts. This will hardly help electrification even if it is associated with Mercedes-Benz. .
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:21 am)Honda Fit vs. Daimler Smart BEV …… It starts to add up:
Let’s say Daimler is able to get the Smart BEV down to Honda Fit Prices. So you can either buy a 80 mile range Smart BEV or a Honda Fit. Let’s say the battery is good to the 10 year point and replacement costs are $400/kwh. Let’s say you commute 50 miles round trip to work each day and end up putting 15,000 mi/year on your car.
Your Smart BEV will cost you 16 kwh x $400 = $6,400/10/12 = $53.33/ mo. for the battery. At 5 miles per kwh (200wh/mile) and .09c/kwh then your electricity cost is $22.50/mo for a total of $75.83/mo in battery and electicity costs.
The Fit (at 31 mpg) and 15,000 mi/year will cost you $120.97/mo in fuel at $3/g. So you’re saving $45.14/mo vs. the fit, and that’s before we get into maintenance, repairs, and depreciation. All these combined will easily total over $100/mo ….. $1200/year …. and $24,000 + if you ran 2 batteries ( the original plus one replacement) through the car over a 20 year span.
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:21 am)Aprill 2011 it goes on sale in the US.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:24 am)Dang, what a waste not to get them here. I betcha it was more like Daimler saying….Well if the US won’t flex in their diesel restrictions they don’t deserve this 72mpg car.
That brings back memories of the Honda CRX. Honda should bring that car back in it’s old 86 HF style. 50mpg.
http://jalopnik.com/393147/1986-honda-crx-hf
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:27 am)Yeah, you would think eco meant stripped of all the non eco. Maybe a recycled dashboard and sawgrass seat coverings. Plus soybean resin door inserts for good measure. This eco fits better in the mini mansion’s suburban driveway than at the recycle and reuse yard sales.
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:30 am)Are there any price figures flying around?
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:40 am)Two Smarts can be parked in one space. They park nose first in a parallel spot.
If one car is already parked, another Smart can pull into the space. They may even be able to share the parking cost.
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:46 am)I started thinking white for heat reasons. I have to say it does look good in black.
Black or cyber grey metallic would hide the color difference. That bothers me with the white, but the pearl effect of the white looks really classy!
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:55 am)I hate to be the one to throw this out, but they’d probably double the electric sales if they put large stickers all over the vehicle with electric plugs, the word “electric”, and best of all, images of leaves and trees. I always laugh at people posting, “I’ll be able to get it with that big “HYBRID” sticker on the side, right?” So many buyers apparently want to make a statement of some kind, more important than saving money or the environment, to them.
Ohoh, the first 250 will be leases only, I can already forsee the conspiracy theories when they gather the cars up and crush them…
And for the nth time, ANY lipo battery can be recharged from 20 to 80 percent in under an hour with a low, gentle 1C rate. This is not a quick charge at all from the battery’s point of view (“quick charge” to me means 3-5 minutes). The fact that the Smart (and Volt) take longer than this means there is a limitation in either the power supply (how much you can suck out of an outlet), or the charging circuitry, or both. The battery is NOT to blame here. So don’t even bother saying, “If only they had better batteries and could charge more quickly.”
As an electric r/c hobbyist, I might even be interested in this vehicle as a fun toy if it were under $10-12K, but over that, not so much. And look on the bright side, if you run out of juice you can probably push the little sucker home, or at least to a location with an outlet.
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:57 am)Check this one out – it’s amazing!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10276652.stm
I am wondering if it could be used in cars as well…
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:00 pm)I sat in this car at Voltnation. It is very small but with a roomy interior.
But I wonder if there is enough room for the size battery they will need.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:08 pm)Nothing firm yet, but MMNA spokesman Maurice Durand said last month that Mitsu was “targeting sub-$30,000 for the U.S.” pre-rebate. Which would be consistant with their stance to be cheaper than the LEAF. Well, I guess they really have to be a good buck cheaper, especially when initial demand is met, the LEAF is definitely the superior EV if you are doing a direct comparison. (i-MiEV is 7% cheaper in Japan than the LEAF)
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:11 pm)There were some complaints about the harsh transmission.. was this the case with yours?
Part of the allure or owning a Volt or LEAF is driving up to a gas station just to buy a diet slurpee.. and suck it down noisily while chatting with the poor saps filling up their SUVs.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:18 pm)Your right about “that’s why they make different colors”. The reason I like the white on the Volt is because of all the black on the car. I like the contrast. But to each his own.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:22 pm)Perhaps the Fit’s greatest asset is it’s flexibility. You’d be amazed at the kinds and quantities of things that I’ve been able to “fit” into mine. With the electric 4two, at any price, all of that is lost.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:23 pm)If you have never been to Europe and driven a city car, then you really have probably never experienced something like the kind of transmission this thing has. When you get in one for the first time, you probably spend a good 5 minutes trying to just get the thing in motion, trying to get the dashboard to stop saying you are in gear ’0,’ then once you get the hang of it there is a lot of ‘popping’ around town. There really is nothing at all that compares to this transmission on the roads in North America.
That being said, it is still ‘quirky’ fun to drive, good seating/handling atmosphere. My spuse loved the thing despite all its flaws.
(Your right about the Volt/LEAF at a gas sation…the eco-smugness is right off the chart)
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:25 pm)My guess is it’s both. The Volt has a 40Ah pack @ 336VDC. Most homes have 240VAC @ 30A. I recall some dude in green saying the voltage of each cell is 3.5VDC. I think fully charged it’s 3.75VDC. in order to get to a charging rate of (3.75 x 96) = 360VDC, the charger itself needs to step up 240VAC to at least 254.6VAC. A transformer can do that easily, but a bigazz one though. Why step up to 254.6VAC you ask? Because when you do a full wave bridge rectify, you get (1.414 x 254.6)= 360.004VDC. Of coursethat’s the theory. In actuality you need a little more than that because of conversion losses. Now having to step up the voltage by factor of 1.06%, there’s a negative hit against the available current of 30A used to charge and it reduces the output by 30A – (.106 x 30A)=26.82A. Charging current is now reduced due to the step up and conversion loss.
So that identifies the household limitation of below 1C charge rate…….in a long description.
I think the charge circuitry can be designed to pump 40A into the batt pack but the limitation is really the household current.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:27 pm)I never thought leases were a good idea financially unless you have a business to write them off against. With that said, I have also seen leases so full of desperate OEM incentive money that they look good, until you look at the total allowable miles – which are always very low.
The electric car prototype leases are very different though. These have included not only all the maintenance costs, but also the insurance is pre-paid. Much more of the lessees monthly costs are tied up by these than in a normal lease. All maintenance and insurance costs covered for four years? If they follow that pattern, that is a very expensive cost of ownership that is covered by the lease.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:29 pm)#72
I saw one this AM, and had exactly the same thought. Or the Chevy Metro, come to that. +1 Wait, can I do that this AM? Oh yeah, it’s working again. Well done Lyle!
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:32 pm)At the prices they’ll want for it, the electric Smart is probably ‘dead on arrival,’ for all but the tiniest of niches.
When someone can make the money work for a car of this kind, you could be seeing a few of them around: little sawed-off mini-EVs (most likely from Asia). I won’t be driving one, however. You’d pay an awful lot, even at a more reasonable price, for very little: along with safety, this is the reason I wouldn’t consider the gas version.
When there’s a cheap enough sawed-off EV, there will also be a cheaper normal-sized EV. Most drivers will make the decision that makes the current 4two a rarity: for a couple of grand or so, you can get a whole lot more usefulness.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:32 pm)#75
I think that’s what drove the Smart design in the 1st place. Parking in totally congested cities such as Paris. +1
I’m trying to help The Captain all I can here. I hope he appreciates it, LOL.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:35 pm)Speaking of golf carts and retirement villages, is there any possibility designing and marketing something similar to the (electric) Smart but even more explicitly a somewhat refined golf cart. Reduce the power capability to give it a 35 mph limit. Now the kwh requirement of the battery is reduced. Reduce the range slightly to decrease energy demand on the battery even more. This will be truly and specifically an around-the-neighborhood car marketed toward retirement villages. With the smaller energy and power requirements can the battery size be reduced enough so that the car could be priced somewhere close to $10,000? Marketed as a refined, enclosed and safer alternative to a golf cart, would that possibly be viable in the marketplace?
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:36 pm)They do the same thing in San Fran for metered parking. But if your meter expires, you both get a ticket.
/gottaget some revenue some way.
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:40 pm)#86
Not even then, IMHO. +1 I guess we just have to do the math in this brave new world. Or have our CPAs so it, LOL.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (12:45 pm)Miles EV makes an enclosed hooptie like that…
http://www.milesev.com/#zx40.swf
/not that I’ve ever done it but I hear there’s a “Flash” to the controller to open it up past 25mph.
Jun 9th, 2010 (1:26 pm)It’s called a NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle), basically a low-speed micro car (or high-speed covered golf cart). It’s basic configuration has been in manufacture in one form or another for 40 years, defining “electric car” (as something impractical for serious use) throughout that era.
http://green.autoblog.com/category/nev-neighborhood-electric-vehicle/
http://nevportal.com/
Endless examples of this kind of vehicle exist (and amazingly, more are still in the planning stages). Some are limited to 25 mph, none go faster than 35 (part of the legal designation). Lead-acid technology is perfectly adequate for the typical 25 mile range, though some NEVs using Li/Ion batteries have started to appear, or are in the planning stages (in addition to greater range/lower weight, the chief advantage being longer lifetime: new lead-acid batteries for a NEV typically run $1000 every 3 – 4 years).
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (1:28 pm)ForTwo is a legend in its time. Starting with its outstanding ID (industrial design), Mercedes quality, and well-thought out safety features. Daimler should have but just didn’t build on its ‘fun-to-drive’ rep. Maybe the ForTwo EV will turn some heads, and maybe not enough. Just depends.
There are lessons for VOLT. ForTwo brought out premium buyers. Its fun, decent range and all that. These are mostly folks that can walk away from a $15 k outlay. A second car. Short commuting. So its not surprising to see ForTwo’s novelty wearing.
ForTwo however (hello GM) has Penske Automotive Group who has world-wide admiration and respect as its exclusive US distributors. This organization has the resources to up-scale ForTwo if things get sticky.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (2:17 pm)$28,800 over 4 years ($600 x 12 months x 4 years). Plus some money for the electricity being used. Someone might buy it for ego purposes but for a 4 year TCO there are larger, more comfortable vehicles out there that offer longer range and will cost less to own (ahem, that’s own and not lease where at the end you have nothing) even after buying the gas.
Sorry, but it just doesn’t make sense.
Jun 9th, 2010 (2:57 pm)Smart’s biggest issue is one word:
DEATHTRAP
Jun 9th, 2010 (4:00 pm)PUMA!!!!!!
lol
Jun 9th, 2010 (4:08 pm)I agree that it would make a big difference, but how is that going to happen? The new proposed legislation doesn’t convert the $7,500 from a credit to a rebate. The existing legislation says the credit can go only to the owner of the vehicle. With a loan, the end user owns the vehicle. The only way around it that I can see is a lease, where the leasing company owns the vehicle.
Jun 9th, 2010 (4:17 pm)SMART Ass.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
Jun 9th, 2010 (4:24 pm)Yes nearly 30K. But you have to keep in mind that this lease would avoid about $16,000 in expenses for an ICE car, including insurance, fuel, taxes, finance charges and maintenance for a conventional purchase. The cost of electricity would have to be added in for the Smart though.
In comparison a Volt would add on reduced maintenance costs (brakes far less, ICE fewer hours operated), taxes and registration – $7500 credit, insurance, financing costs, and about 30 to 45 gallons of fuel per year for most drivers.
Jun 9th, 2010 (4:48 pm)I think some of these savings might be State to State.
In Connecticut, auto insurance is mandatory and so are property taxes on the car.
Jun 9th, 2010 (4:57 pm)The word ‘cage’ is an over used euphemism used by many car makers. It really means uni-body. A uni-body is a car that has no frame. ALL cars made today except the Ford Crown Victoria and it’s variants are uni-body designs. Only pickup trucks and large SUV’s have separate frames.
As far as a cage similar to NASCAR or any full body race car,,, NADA. Look inside of a true race car when you get a chance. The inside is lined with 3 inch heavy gauge metal tubing braced in all directions. A NASCAR chassis is the size of a mid size American car yet there is only room for the driver because the ‘cage’ takes up all remaining available space. Hit a Smart with a pickup truck, call the fire department, and possibly the coroner. End of story.
Jun 9th, 2010 (4:59 pm)My wife and I saw one on a local dealer lot and test drove it. It was a blast. The interior is huge—as long as you don’t look behind you. At 6’2 I had inches to spare above my head. They turn on a dime. But the gas mileage was low for a car so small. And the transmission kinda winds up and then finally engages. The roll cage design means they don’t crush—they bounce. Better be wearing your seat belts! They look like they should get 60 mpg, they don’t. So the only reason to get one is parking. You can pull in nose first between two cars, no problem. It’s as long as many cars are wide.
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:03 pm)Auto insurance is mandatory in Ca also. The quotes you get from the car lease ads don’t include the taxes or insurance until you get to the fine print though. The prototypes have included these costs in the announced prices unlike the usual advertised leases for production cars.
-14
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:19 pm)(click to show comment)
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:19 pm)OK, you lost me on that one. I have never heard of that. Maybe it’s called someting else here in brokeazz CA.
Anyone know?
+5
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:26 pm)Your the loser, a-hole. Not Lyle.
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:31 pm)Connecticut never misses an opportunity to tax someone. When the car is new, the property tax is at its highest. Each year it goes down. It also varies from town to town. When I lived in a big city, my Subaru Outback was $1500 when it was 3 years old. I moved to a smaller town and it dropped to $400. I can’t stress this enough…..This State sucks to live in.
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:35 pm)In a lot of states, especially southern states, there is a personal property tax. It applies to cars and it can be onerous, though there has been a trend to reduce it. For a while I lived in VA and the tax rate was so high it was almost as much as your monthly car payment. Yikes! Which is why people would hide their cars in garages so the tax collectors wouldn’t see them. In CA the equivalent would be the vehicle license fee. It’s roughly based on the value of the vehicle — initial purchase price minus depreciation — and you pay it with the registration fee.
Interestingly enough, the personal property tax was popular in many southern states because of who owned the land and who didn’t.
The Connecticut rate is local and it looks like it’s more than double that of the current CA rate.
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:39 pm)Damn, I thought CA sucked to live in. I fell sort of better now.
Feel sorry for Sir. Rashiid Amul though, dude, hang in there.
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:50 pm)The roads and highways should be private. Then the state federal and county governments will have no reason to tax us for roads.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (5:58 pm)Part of the reason California is in such dire financial shape is because the Governator slashed the Vehicle License Fee when he got in power. He realized later that was a terrible mistake, but he couldn’t undo it without half the state screaming “Tax Increase”. He’s been sweating blood ever since trying to balance the books, but hasn’t succeeded because it can’t be done without more income from somewhere.
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:26 pm)I was a little surprised when I found out the Smart for two was a gas powered car. Had it been an EV from the beginning it would have sold very fast. The mistake was comming out with another gas powered car. A cute little unique 2 seater would have sold well as a BEV. It would have been good for EV’s in general. Too many people know the disadvantages of the smart for two gaser and that is what killed the chances for the EV version to succeed.
Take Care,
TED
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:33 pm)Paul, I am confused. I registered with only a valid email address. It is never posted. What other requirements are there ? Dude you need to mellow out. Or maybe Lyle let me slip through and now I am busted ! Damn…. LOL
Jun 9th, 2010 (6:53 pm)I have seen many Golf Carts on roads in places like SUN CITY and they seem to do fine … but slow.
Kind of nice because one can go to the course, play, and then drive home in one vehicle.
Now if a Smart Electric could double as a Golf cart on the course… that might be a win. BUT i do not think it will happen.
So if a SMART Electric is only for the road then my choice is to get a VOLT.
:+}
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:21 pm)#107
Well, a portion of you registration renewal each year is based on the estimated value of the car. Which is why it goes down a bit over time. That part is a sort of “property tax”. It is the portion of the renewal which is tax deductible on your Federal Income Tax.
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:27 pm)#113
True that. +1
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:36 pm)That is a very small small part of the problems.
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:42 pm)This is exactly how I see the car. My first impression was that these were pretty neat. The roominess for two is great. Kind of like a double wide motorcycle with a roof. These were very popular in Europe a few years ago when I first saw them. They were everywhere in Paris. When I finally saw one in the US and found out what the mpg was, I totally changed my opinion. They went from Smart to Dumb.
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:52 pm)re: Neighborhood Electric Putt Putts: I prefer the looks of the Smart’s body to the Miles Electric. It’s somehow more refined. I’m just wondering how low they could price it if they put a modest, but up to date battery (ie, Lithium) and electric motor in it and limit the speed to 35. If they could price it at, say, $12,000, I bet they could sell a bunch around the retirement villages and in downtown residential cities like SF. Someone upthread said that the more tricked out golf carts go for around $10,000. The Neighborhood Smart would definitely compete with that, I would think. I hope I’m not just repeating myself here. I’m thinking of it competing with golf carts. Basically, I think that body-style is pretty cute compared to a golf cart or even the Miles. It would have to sell if marketed to the retired, I would think. It has to be MUCH safer than a GC. You’re also not evoking an image of it pulling onto a freeway or interstate. Even though they are supposed to be safer than city streets, that mental picture is scary.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:53 pm)The car simply is not good enough to compete with other models out there. These are still being driven around Japan and Europe but they are expensive, heavy, have poor aerodynamics and as a result, do not get great gas mileage.
It’s not about saving gas or using electricity with this car. It’s just not up to the competition anymore.
Also, if you want to have better safety against Hummers and other SUVs the best way is to make the car bigger yet lighter. It has been proven that having sufficient crumple zones to absorb the energy is far better than a strong cage or air bags. Check out F1 race cars and carbon fiber tubs.
The car manufacturers would be foolish to dismiss these sales numbers as anything other than that stated above. People will be driving smaller cars that are electrified, hybridized, lightweighted, aerodynamically enhanced, etc. in massive numbers.
If you don’t think so, how about taking a look at the latest oil production forecast by the EIA. Notice how it keeps coming down? That’s called saving face.
Jun 9th, 2010 (7:58 pm)I don’t know if it will, but there sure was a lot of talk that Nissan found a way.
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:20 pm)I agree that it is better to buy a Volt over a Smart, but I think you are off by $9,000 for the VOLT. GM knows the first 250,000 cars (which should qualify for gov kickback) will sell to gearheads, rich people that want to appear green, and a group of people that just “need” to have the cool gadget and can afford it. I mean let’s face it, the Hummer did not make sense other than that it was expensive and cool back in the day. GM got top dollar for it. Then when that started to drop, H2 was born, and then H3. GM is going to sell for $47,495. Let the government credit trick you into the $39,995 price. Once the 250K is sold out Volt 2.0 will be out for $35,000… I might be a “Skeptic” but I am an engineer who also took MBA classes in Marketing. I am not saying it is nice, but it does make damn good business sense.
Jun 9th, 2010 (9:58 pm)Nice graph. Did you make it ?
+1
Jun 9th, 2010 (10:31 pm)It must be close pals with Wisconsin!
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:03 pm)The Governor was elected when he screamed to high heaven that the past governor should be recalled for raising the VLF so much. When the current Governor tried to raise the VLF at nearly the same time he took on politically powerful law enforcement, teacher, firefighter and correction officer unions, he found he was very quickly not so popular. Gee, who’d a thunk?
Jun 9th, 2010 (11:43 pm)You bet they did. It was called a lease. Anyone who buys a Leaf will have to finance the whole 33K or 34K, less down payment.
I think I hope GM will do the same sort of thing on a Volt lease even though, like Nissan, it would mean GMAC – oops, ally – wouldn’t get the $7500 for a year or more in some cases.
+2
Jun 10th, 2010 (1:12 am)I can’t wait till they are cranking out Volt’s by the hundreds of thousands, the economies of scale are in effect and we have say 4 battery options.
Let’s say the current 16kw pack with 8kws usable is 10 grand. how bout 3 other options.. which would you choose?
Option 1. 10,000 dollars.
16kw battery with 8kws usable, 40 mile a charge guarantee for 7 years or 100,000 electric miles for 10,000 dollars.
Option 2. 5,000 dollars.
8kws with 4kw usable 20 miles a charge 7 years or 50,000 electric miles.
Option 3. 5,000 dollars.
8kw battery with 8kw usable. 40 miles at first but 3 year warranty that you will get over 20 miles a charge at 3 years or 45,000 electric miles.
Option 4. 2,500 dollars
4kw battery with 4kw usable. 20 miles at first but 3 year warranty that you will get over 10 at 3 years of 22,500 of electric miles for 2,500 dollars
I believe this will be how they can make this a mainstream electric car. Getting the base price of the Volt down to 20k with no fancy touchscreens or high end features with battery option 4 could get the volt down to 22,500 and then with a tax credit, forget about it.. Hottest selling car in the world.
I may be interested in taking battery option 4, for now anyways. When the battery is only giving me 5 miles of charge in 4 or 5 years I’ll replace it with option 1. It’d probably be down to 4k by then. Pardon my long winded comment. Oh and if someone want’s to repost this tomorrow morning with my name please do.
Jun 10th, 2010 (1:34 am)That was my opinion until I drove in interstate holiday traffic with the smart. Much to my surprise the large trucks had very little wind effect on direction/stability and certainly less disturbing than when riding my goldwing in similar situations. It can keep up with and pass the semi’s as any car could.
If one can confidently ride a motorcycle on the interstate then any well designed 4 wheel vehicle is a safer upgrade, especially one with 4 air bags.
Jun 10th, 2010 (4:50 am)I didn’t realize you live in Wisconsin.
I lived in Weyauwega for a little while.
And that “house on the rock” is very cool. I liked Wisconsin, but I didn’t have to pay any taxes.
Jun 10th, 2010 (6:21 am)I beg to differ. The Volt in real life looks much bigger than in photo’s. And that continues when you get inside it. I realize there is an element of subjectivity here, but every time that I have been next to a Volt it has given me this good feeling of being better than it should on face value.
Jun 10th, 2010 (6:26 am)Lyle: this sounds like a very good idea for a poll of our people. +1.
Jun 10th, 2010 (7:09 am)Dummies in a smart car:
Looks like Daimler did a decent job developing the “cage” for the smart car … but unfortunately, mass has its advantages.
VIDEO: MERCEDES S-CLASS VS. SMART
http://www.leftlanenews.com/video-mercedes-s-class-vs-smart.html
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/smart-car1.htm
smart car crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s
Jun 12th, 2010 (11:39 am)When I first saw the price of these vehicles I instantly new the people that bought them were STUPID. If you are a good negotiator you could purchase two vehicle’s capable of hauling four to five people around instead of just two. To compound the lunacy of buying a Smart dumb car, they have to have premium gas to run. Trendy car’s only last so long so do not expect them to even be around in the next two to four years and they will not be worth much on a trade in. Cutoff the top and fill them with dirt and plant flowers in them, what else can you do with a pregnant roller skate.
Jun 14th, 2010 (3:19 pm)Sorry for the late reply, but how are you figuring that an EV won’t need insurance, won’t need maintenance, won’t be taxed, won’t incur finance charges, etc.? Those costs may change but they do not go away.
The fortwo EV might even have higher repair costs. Most new cars come with at least a 3 year warranty and 5 years powertrain. Smart offers a 2 year/24K warranty (for everything) on their current lineup so unless they expand their warranty for the EV you can expect higher than average repair costs since you’ll be out of warranty for at least half of the lease term. The money you save by needing fewer brake jobs and avoiding oil changes might well be spent repairing a busted AC unit, power window, or something else that would be covered under the more generous warranty of pretty much any other manufacturer.
And don’t forget with a lease, you are obligated to return the vehicle with only normal wear & tear. Be prepared to spend money to fix anything that’s gone wrong beyond some worn fabric, including door dings.
FWIW, a regular fortwo costs under $26K over 4 years according to Edmund’s TCO calculator. That includes vehicle depreciation, taxes, fuel, maintenance, repairs, and financing. $31K over 5 years after which time you own the vehicle.
The fortwo EV still doesn’t make sense.
+1
Jun 21st, 2010 (10:04 pm)Funny, my diesel convertible smarts (I have two) average 60 US MPG. The older of the two has 100,000 miles on it. Great cars.
The electric is overpriced, no doubt. Should get reasonable in 2012.
When the Government Motors Volt comes out, it will be interesting…..maybe a new $35K Vega for this century?